WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.000 You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more 2 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:12.679 amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. 3 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.480 Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four forty six. 4 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:19.559 Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep 5 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:20.960 breath and try again. 6 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:25.440 Kat You Whitten broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in 7 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:28.359 Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. 8 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:32.640 It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and 9 00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:35.119 business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your 10 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:39.119 screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. 11 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:44.039 Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. 12 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:46.679 I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now. 13 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:50.719 Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. 14 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:51.119 Now. 15 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:56.119 Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses 16 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:59.159 on the kind of project you are in the goals 17 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:01.560 of the project you are, so we actually break it 18 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:05.120 down by three categories micro budget, indie film, market, and 19 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.879 studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a 20 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.599 reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie 21 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:13.040 is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars 22 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:16.000 and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof script Coverage, 23 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:21.760 our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, w MEE, NBC, HBO, Disney, 24 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:25.640 Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. 25 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:29.120 So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered 26 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:34.519 by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com. 27 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:39.359 Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis. 28 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:43.319 My guest new film Initiation, which he cod wrote. It's 29 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:47.000 being distributed by Gravitas Ventures. We talk writing, working as 30 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:51.599 a development executive, and so much more with guest Dan Benimore. 31 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:53.840 Hey Dan, thanks love for coming on the show. 32 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:55.319 My pleasure. 33 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:00.159 So Dan, just to get started, you know, since you've 34 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:01.560 listened to the show before, you know what the first 35 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.079 question is going to be. And that question, Dan is, 36 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:07.920 you know, how did you get your start in the 37 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:08.680 film industry? 38 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:13.800 Well, I mean, you know, for me, it's I mean, 39 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.000 I guess the real definitive moment was I came out 40 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:19.120 here to LA and I got an internship with a 41 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:22.199 production company, and then I was doing Apple about six 42 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:25.280 months and I pretty much you know, I ended up 43 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:30.000 getting hired as an assistant and then I got promoted 44 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.520 from there and eventually I became the head of development. 45 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:35.520 So it was sort of I mean, really, I guess 46 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:37.599 you broke it down, it would probably be when I 47 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:40.960 just first got hired from an intern to actually being 48 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:43.719 an assistant, and then it sort of snowball from there. 49 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:48.639 Now does that still work in a similar way, you know, 50 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:51.159 because you know things are always changing and with the 51 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:54.960 changing face of distribution and everything, is it still that 52 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:57.719 that that way where you think interns are used as 53 00:02:57.759 --> 00:02:59.560 sort of like that farm system where they can be 54 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:01.520 brought up within an agency. 55 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:05.639 My opinion on it, you know, was that because I 56 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:09.800 was at a small company where basically, you know, the 57 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:12.919 principles of the company were right there, like you know, 58 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:16.840 you're dealing with them every day, and it wasn't you know. 59 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:20.039 I think that sometimes if you go for an internship, 60 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.120 you could get an internship with somewhere really cool, like 61 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:24.960 you know, like say, for example, I got an internship 62 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:26.879 with Lion Skate or something, right, so I'm a really 63 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:29.159 big company like that, I would just be a guy, 64 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:33.759 you know, one guy in this massive machine. I think 65 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:35.439 in a scenario like that, it would bet a little 66 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:38.639 bit harder to have the trajectory that I ended up 67 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:41.800 having at a small company because in a smaller company 68 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:44.000 you go act directly with the principles, They get to 69 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:46.080 know you, and you know, it's a more it's so 70 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:49.400 much more personal relationship, and so it's not I don't 71 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:52.680 think it says when it's a bigger machine, you know, 72 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:55.319 I think you might have a tougher time having any 73 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:57.840 sort of you know, upward mobility like that. 74 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:00.879 Now, So when you went in there was that was 75 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:02.840 that your goal to be to be hired or did 76 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:06.000 you maybe have another aspiration, uh, to you know, to 77 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.680 or another goal to maybe work for another company, or 78 00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:10.560 or maybe you know, just goal on your own. 79 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.599 Yeah, I mean I had no particular aspiration. I mean 80 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:15.719 I showed up here in LA with my buddy from 81 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:19.759 film school, and we got an apartment in Hollywood and basically, 82 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:22.360 you know, for the first week we went to the beach. 83 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:24.480 But then after that I was like, all right, what 84 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:27.240 are we going to do? So I figured it would 85 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:30.439 be worthwhile to try to learn, just learn as much 86 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.439 as I could, and so I actually had a couple 87 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:35.399 I think I had like two or three different internships 88 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:37.439 at the same time. And I just you know, I 89 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:40.079 had no real particular goal. I mean, I I've always 90 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.120 my endgame was always to be a writer. But you know, 91 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:45.600 when I first got to LA, I just figured as 92 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:47.879 much as I can learn, it's all positive. So I 93 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:50.759 just kind of showed up and you know, and things 94 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:52.680 things took the course they took. 95 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:56.279 Yeah, you know, And and you know that that's great 96 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:59.560 because you know, because I have had friends who have 97 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:02.360 moved out and uh, you know, the thinks are the 98 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:04.839 same thing. They're like they always felt guilty about not 99 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:07.439 being outside because they're like, look, it's a beautiful day out, 100 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:09.839 the beach is down the street. What the hell are 101 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:10.839 you doing inside? 102 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:14.600 You know? Yeah, yeah, for sure, man. I mean the 103 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:16.240 longer you're here too, the less you go. 104 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:21.519 Until until like somebody, like a relative or something comes right, 105 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:22.160 and then you're like. 106 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:24.240 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. 107 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:29.240 Uh So you know this, And since we're talking about 108 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:30.800 this part of your career, I want to ask, you know, 109 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:32.920 because some of the people that have been on I 110 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:34.800 didn't get a chance to ask from this, but what 111 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:37.199 are some of the skill sets that did you think 112 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:39.519 that you had at this point that really helped you 113 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:42.199 stand out? And really help them. Uh, you know, your 114 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:44.759 bosses and your managers that that they you know, they 115 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.000 they saw you, and they saw your skill set, and 116 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:50.000 they they wanted to keep you. So do you you 117 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:52.279 any like any of the skills off hand that that 118 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:56.000 you think that really helped you, you know, get that promotion. 119 00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:01.040 You know, it was funny because I started and at 120 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:02.920 the end, I was in charge of the interns. So 121 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.639 I would, you know, I would kind of manage the interns. 122 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:08.639 I would, you know, me and other people at the company, 123 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:11.879 of course, but I think primarily I was part of 124 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:14.839 my job, so I would kind of see, you know, 125 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:17.839 you would give some interns, like you give them a script, 126 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:19.959 and you know, there were times when I was really 127 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:23.079 busy and I genuinely needed to have like a really 128 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.959 in depth creative discussion about a script, and I didn't 129 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:27.639 have time to read it. I would give it to 130 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:30.360 an intern to read, and then I'd get up, you 131 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:32.160 know and say, hey, do read that a script? What'd 132 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:36.839 you think? And you really it was very noticeable, and 133 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.439 it's actually interesting. So now a couple of years are 134 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.560 passed since I was at that job, the guys that 135 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:44.319 were my interns that I could tell had something extra, 136 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:48.720 they've had continued success, like they've transitioned to other jobs 137 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:51.439 where they've they you know, some of them would become 138 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:55.920 produced filmmakers, some of them work at other companies now. 139 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:59.000 And you know you can tell the guys who basically 140 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:01.439 had confidence, they had opinion. That's pretty much what he 141 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:03.879 blows down to. You know, if if I got up 142 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:05.439 and I would ask him in turn, like hey, when 143 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:07.079 do you think of that script? And he was just 144 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:10.639 like yeah, all right, you know, like that that's a 145 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:13.759 that's not really what you're looking for. You know, you're 146 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:17.639 looking for somebody who has confident as an opinion and 147 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:20.600 also is like has a strong opinion. You know, Like 148 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:25.079 so if I like something and you know the intern 149 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:27.480 that I'm checking in with him and he didn't like it, 150 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:30.240 and and I say, well, you know, I thought, you know, 151 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:31.680 I felt this work and that work, and he kind 152 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:34.360 of backs off his opinion. I think that is also 153 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:37.199 another thing that like, your opinion is your opinion, and 154 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:41.399 it's important, in my opinion, to be strong in your 155 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:44.839 convictions because once you waffle, he kind of lose credibility, 156 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.439 you know, So stuff like that, I think, and then 157 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:51.279 also just the basics, right, like just being responsible, like 158 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.439 you're if you're giving a job to do, do it 159 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:55.920 to the best of your ability, be on time, be 160 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.560 pleasant to deal with. You know. It's that that type 161 00:07:58.560 --> 00:07:59.560 of stuff really important too. 162 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:02.959 So would you ever sit down with a lot of 163 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:05.000 these interns and go over things like this is how 164 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.360 you read a screenplay and these are the things to 165 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:08.160 look for. 166 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:08.839 You know? 167 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:10.000 Would you do stuff like that? 168 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:13.240 Yeah? Well, I mean when you would first bring them in, 169 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.800 we'd usually try to get a coverage sample to show 170 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:19.920 that they knew how to read a script basically, and 171 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:22.399 you know, I mean we we had our own template 172 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:26.079 and stuff like that, but that you know, typically if 173 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:27.680 somebody is coming in to be an intern at a 174 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:32.120 production company, we want them to have some reading experience 175 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:34.759 because we don't want them starting from asslot the scratch, 176 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.279 I mean, then they have no real place to have 177 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:39.519 a strong care of opinion. So usually we try to 178 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:42.639 find somebody who had some sort of background and reading 179 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:44.879 scripts and maybe they you know, whatever that might be, 180 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.559 and hopefully, you know, start from there. 181 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:53.000 So was there ever a you know, a time when 182 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:55.799 when you you know, you read a screenplay and maybe 183 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:57.840 you loved it and you wanted to get a feel 184 00:08:57.879 --> 00:08:59.559 for all these interns, and maybe you gave it to 185 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.159 them and there was a point where they said, hey, 186 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:04.840 you know, hey, boss, we we rooted it like this, 187 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:06.960 and then and then maybe you said like, hey, yeah, 188 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.519 I loved it actually, and and was therever there was 189 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:10.519 there ever a time like that? 190 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:15.360 Sure, yeah, I mean always, I mean that's but that's why. Yeah, 191 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:18.320 that's what you need, uh, you know, readers for basically 192 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:21.000 to kind of check you so you can get a sense, 193 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:23.000 especially if it's something a little bit out there where 194 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:24.840 you're like, you know, I think this is great, but 195 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:28.279 it's pretty pretty weird. You know, you need a lot 196 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:30.360 of times you need that extra voice to kind of 197 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:32.799 you know, get a sense of how it's playing. So 198 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:35.039 often in the situations like that, I would actually have 199 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:36.960 more than one person read it. I'd have like five 200 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.000 people read it, and then I'd be able to look 201 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.440 at sort of the general response and and you know 202 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:44.440 compare and see what was consistent and stuff like that. 203 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:47.399 Yeah, and that's two Verger takeaways too, is uh, you know, 204 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:49.919 one have confidence and to have an opinion. 205 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:53.960 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 206 00:09:57.600 --> 00:09:58.840 and now back to the show. 207 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:03.519 You know, that's very important to mention Dan because I, 208 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:06.399 you know, just through everyone listening, I you know, I 209 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:08.080 think that's very important too in the general in the 210 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:11.039 film industry is that you have to have your confidence 211 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.279 and you have to have that opinion, which you know, 212 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.360 if you're as a director, you need that. As a 213 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:17.159 writer as you know, you need that point of view 214 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:18.480 from where to tell your story. 215 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:21.840 Yeah, that's and that you know, it's it's a funny 216 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:24.279 thing because it comes back on you in so many 217 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.039 different ways because if you project confidence and it's even 218 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:30.720 on the page. You know, if you project confidence on 219 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:33.240 the page, and you project confidence when you then later 220 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:36.559 go into a development beating or whatever, you can kind 221 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:42.080 of slay people. Like people want to buy into that confidence. Like, 222 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:44.440 you know, somebody's sitting down to read script, if that 223 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:46.799 first couple of pages is written with a really strong 224 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:50.080 authorial voice, they'll kind of come with you, you know. And 225 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.320 if you, as the writer have a really strong take 226 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:55.159 on a story and feel really strongly about it and 227 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:57.440 can back it up and and all that stuff, people 228 00:10:57.840 --> 00:10:59.440 you know kind of want to take that journey with you, 229 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:01.440 and they want to trust your credibility. As a writer, 230 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:05.600 So it's so important. Well, I think once you it's 231 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.639 not to say that like, oh you know, don't be 232 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:11.360 be inflexible, it's not about that, but it just you 233 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:13.399 got to be confident in what you're doing because if 234 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:15.759 you're not, and there's no ways, no one ever else 235 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:18.200 will ever be confident and you you have to be 236 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.919 confident yourself number one, and then other people can basically 237 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:25.000 trust you. And you know, in our business it's so 238 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:28.080 tough already that if you don't project that confidence, I 239 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:29.639 think it makes it way tougher. 240 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:32.840 So what are some of the things that you notice, 241 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:34.559 Like when we were talking about confidence on the page, 242 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:36.879 you know, what are some of the things that usually 243 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:39.200 jump out at you and you can usually say like, hey, 244 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:42.360 you know that writer, he believes he or she believes 245 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:44.200 in her own her own writing. 246 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.360 Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's I think it's a lot 247 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.360 of different things. I think I think one thing for 248 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:58.200 sure would be starting out with a storytelling sort of 249 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:02.080 approach where you're not you're not waiting for us, like 250 00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:05.480 you're the story's going and we're either coming with you 251 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:07.600 or we're not. But you're not going to hang around 252 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:10.679 and hold our hand you know, I think that that 253 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:15.120 is something you'll definitely see in professional scripts, and it's 254 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:19.000 a very noticeable difference from when you're reading a script 255 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:24.480 maybe by a more beginning writer. You can tell the 256 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:29.360 level of confidence in terms of a shorthand of communicating information, 257 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:34.440 you know, where it's you and it's it's asking a 258 00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:36.320 lot of us as the audience that hey, you you 259 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:38.320 got to keep up with me kind of thing. And 260 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:41.039 I think that you when you when you read something 261 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.480 like that, it actually sort of galvanizes you as a 262 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:47.360 reader because you are suddenly empowered to like figure out 263 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:50.600 what's going on and and it just makes it a 264 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.519 more dynamic experience. The worst thing you can do is is, 265 00:12:53.799 --> 00:12:56.559 you know, have something where it's just spelling it out 266 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.840 to you, you know, in every way, whether that dialogue 267 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:05.200 or just the slowness of the presentation of information or 268 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:08.159 presenting old ideas as if they are new ideas. You know, 269 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.600 and there's there's you know, the audience now is so 270 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:14.759 savage that it's really you know, there's a lot that 271 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:17.519 can be done in shorthand, and if you're not using 272 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:19.919 that shorthand, I think that's where you can kind of 273 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:22.759 get into a scenario where it doesn't come across so 274 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:24.639 the same level of confidence on the page. 275 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.279 Yeah, I do agree. The audience is very savvy now. 276 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:32.159 I mean, you know, sometimes I'm watching movies and I see, 277 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.879 you know, cliches and and I'm always thinking to myself, 278 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:39.159 you know, if they I wonder if if they're writer, 279 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:41.080 the director, whoever it was. I'm We're always wondering, you know, 280 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:43.679 why didn't they try something else? You know what I mean? 281 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:46.480 Because you know, now, Dan, what I do with the movies. 282 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:49.840 I'm always dissecting them in my head, not not even 283 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:51.679 just you know, a piece of paper, but in my head, 284 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:54.600 I'm always thinking to myself, you know, is this a setup? 285 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:56.960 Is this is you know, what would the payoff be? 286 00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:57.240 You know? 287 00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:59.200 Uh, you know, I wonder what the inside the incident 288 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:01.399 is going to be and when it finally comes there, 289 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:02.720 you know you know what I mean. I mean, do 290 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:04.000 you do the same thing? Do you said? You know 291 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.000 when you watch movies? Now, are you just dissecting them 292 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:07.759 and and sort rumors, trying to getting ahead of the 293 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.559 story to see if you could, you know, predict what 294 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:10.399 the writer was thinking. 295 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:12.919 Yeah, I mean I'm pretty much ruined as an audience 296 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:16.440 member at this point. I mean, I remember, I remember 297 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.320 I used to when I was when I was in college. 298 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:22.240 I would go my buddy and we would sneak, you know, 299 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:25.080 we would both see one movie and then sneak around 300 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:27.159 the theater and we would do that for like twelve hours, 301 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:29.000 and we would see every movie that was in theater. 302 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:31.600 And I can actually should and watched literally, I watched 303 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:35.639 literally anything. But now you know, I'm such a that's 304 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:38.360 an awful audience member. I'll find something, you know, like 305 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:42.320 you quick something new on netflick two minutes if there's 306 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:44.519 stuff in there that I just I'm watching it and 307 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:47.120 I'm just like, ah, man, you know, I'll turn off, 308 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:50.960 Like I'm I'd become such a terrifable audience member exactly 309 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:53.120 because of what you're talking about, because we were in 310 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:57.200 it so much that it's like you stop consuming it 311 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.639 kind of as like a regular consumer. You become a 312 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:04.320 lot more sort of like hypocritical when you're when you're 313 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.480 watching stuf because they're always thinking about the design of 314 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.039 it and and things like that. 315 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:12.679 Yeah, I know what you mean, because sometimes you know, 316 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:14.840 I watch movies, right even if you're a trailer now 317 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.480 and uh, I'll say, let me guess what happens in 318 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.279 this movie. And sometimes, you know, I'll stay out in 319 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:22.799 front of my friends and they're like, how the hell 320 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:24.960 do you would you get that from seeing this? And 321 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:26.840 I'm just like, because I just you know what I mean, 322 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:30.639 you see that stuff, you see those points, you know 323 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:32.320 what I mean, Like there was you know, Okay, well, 324 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:34.960 this is obviously last part of the movie. I know 325 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:36.919 this sounds a little bit redundant, but the first time 326 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:39.480 I ever had not the first time, but the most 327 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:41.919 time it sticks out in my mind was when Paul 328 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:44.919 Blart malcov came out and I saw the trailer and 329 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.519 a friend of mine went to always screening of it 330 00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:50.000 and I told him exactly what I think happens in 331 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:52.600 the beat base based on the trailer, and he goes, wow, 332 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:55.000 you're really good at this. And I know I now, 333 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.279 granted obviously we don't go see Paul Blart Malkoff for 334 00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:00.039 the writing, but but you know that's I was just 335 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:01.320 bring that up as a point of reference. 336 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:04.559 Yeah, I mean in general, you know that goes back 337 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.759 to the authorial conference thing, right, It's like, but soon 338 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.840 when you're starting the story, the audience is ahead of 339 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:13.399 you in the same way of what you're talking about. 340 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.080 Like if you set it up and they're they are 341 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.879 going to be predicting a certain storyline. So you the creator, 342 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:22.200 you got to kind of know that, and you're sort 343 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.120 of knowing that you have to give them something that's 344 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.200 at least a little bit different, because otherwise it's going 345 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:32.200 to be exactly like what you're talking about. The audience 346 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:34.840 is able to predict it like beat by beat, then 347 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.639 you're screwed. I mean, that's really you know, then that's 348 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:40.440 a really tough it's a tough place to get away 349 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:43.000 from if you're in that scenario. So you got to 350 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.480 figure some sort of wrinkle that makes it a little 351 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:45.960 bit different. 352 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:50.360 Yeah, very true. And you know, I actually, you know, 353 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:52.320 just as we talk about all this writing and everything else, 354 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:54.120 I want to, you know, get get into your writing. 355 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:54.759 You know. 356 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:58.000 So did you always you know, have the inclamation that 357 00:16:58.039 --> 00:16:59.559 you wanted to be a writer director? 358 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:04.640 Well, no, so I have. I've directed one movie and 359 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:08.839 some shorts, and then you know, for me, in the 360 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.759 experience of directing my movie, which is called The Trade, 361 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:14.599 pretty much told me that I would prefer to just 362 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.359 be the writer, which you know, I enjoyed it, but 363 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.160 it's just so all consuming. So I give a lot 364 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:23.240 of credit to my cousin in Orange, who directed our 365 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:28.400 movie Initiation. It's really an immersive thing that she kind 366 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:31.240 of just you give up. You got to put a 367 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.599 lot of yourself into it. So for me, I prefer 368 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.240 being the writer. I mean, the experience that we had 369 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.759 making this film, it's kind of like exactly what I 370 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:42.319 love about the being of the writer is that I 371 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.400 was able to come in and contribute to the story 372 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.319 and then they went off and made the movie and 373 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.680 I watched the movie. I mean that's you know, that's 374 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.319 like so that's when it's cool being a writer, because 375 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:55.119 it's literally like you wrote something on a piece of 376 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.640 paper and then you get to see that it exists, 377 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.720 and you know, it's pretty pretty neat. 378 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:03.640 Yeah, very true, you know, because I you know, I 379 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:05.759 looked dry MDB. I did see you have the short 380 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:09.240 then you you did direct Portrade, and you know, I 381 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:11.480 wanted to, you know, just ask you know, what was 382 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.839 the biggest difference that you found when you when you 383 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:15.920 had to direct. I mean, was there any like, you know, 384 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:20.279 challenges that you weren't anticipating or you know, did you 385 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:22.000 just say, you know what, I prefer to be a writer. 386 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:27.079 I mean, I think that when you're gonna direct, I 387 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.119 mean I very much. I love working with the actors. 388 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:31.559 I think working with actors is so fun. And you know, 389 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:33.599 if I ever end up directing again, it will be 390 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:37.720 because of that. The part that I felt, you know, 391 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:39.880 and you kind of have to be all in or 392 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.720 not in at all. For me, that was the visual authentic. 393 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:46.920 I had a really great uh cinematographer on my film Betrayed, 394 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:51.559 and you know, he was really good about like basically 395 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.160 checking me and being like, hey, that's not gonna look good. 396 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:56.440 Let's do it like this. You know, when you're when 397 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:00.279 you're promarier writer, you don't necessarily think in that and 398 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.480 visual in the way that a director can to become 399 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:06.119 the same tools. You know, if you're if you're someone 400 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:09.960 who's confident directing stuff and your aspiration is absolutely to direct, 401 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:13.480