WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.919 Oh hey, it's your building manager texting you so sorry 2 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:05.280 to hear about the death of your pragmantis with a 3 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:08.960 cry laughing emoji. Ali Ward with another episode of Ologies 4 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:10.599 this week. What is it? What is it? What is it? 5 00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:12.439 It's emojis? Or is it emoji? 6 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:17.239 Anyone who tries to police how you pluralize a word, 7 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:19.640 you know there's no right answer. There just isn't. 8 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:23.839 That is Jennifer Daniel, one of not one and not two, 9 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:28.800 but three ologists we have on this very, very giant 10 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:32.799 and dear to my heart episode about curiology. Jennifer is 11 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:37.560 currently an emoji designer at Google who's responsible for designing 12 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.960 a bunch of emojis, some that you're going to love, 13 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:44.960 like a serious fan favorite, the melting face emoji. And 14 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:48.000 Jennifer is also a member of the Unicode Emoji Subcommittee, 15 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:50.359 which may have you sitting at home wondering what the 16 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:52.719 heck is the Unicode And I promise you we're going 17 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.240 to get into that, oh so soon. I didn't know either, 18 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:57.479 and it's fascinating. So who else are we going to 19 00:00:57.520 --> 00:00:59.439 be hearing from? Well, there's Keith Brony. 20 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:04.000 From a very technical perspective, it's emoji. But if you 21 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:09.400 look at how people are actually using the term, it's emojis, 22 00:01:09.719 --> 00:01:12.799 and this is a classic example of language changing. If 23 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:16.200 you want to be really, really technical, it's a Japanese term, 24 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:20.840 and emoji picture character is both the singular and the plural. 25 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:25.120 Keith is the current editor in chief of Emojipedia, who, 26 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:28.959 after writing his dissertation on the use of emojis at 27 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:34.280 University College London, became the world's first professional emoji translator 28 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:38.120 and shares what I would perhaps describe as an academic 29 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.519 perspective throughout what will be this big two parter on 30 00:01:41.599 --> 00:01:45.400 this daily part of our lives emoji. And finally Jeremy Birch, 31 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:50.159 who founded a mochipedia that was me in twenty thirteen 32 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:54.280 I did, and until very recently represented Emojipedia in the 33 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:57.599 Unicode Technical Committee. We're going to get in the trenches 34 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:01.920 of emojis, the real gritty, find the scenes, backstage worlds 35 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:05.840 of face beloved and mercurial little language cartoons. But first 36 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:07.519 we like to do a little thanks up top. Thank 37 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:10.520 you to patrons support us and let us make donations 38 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.400 every week to charities of the ologists, choosing for as 39 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:15.719 little as a buck a month. You can join patroon 40 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:18.159 dot com slash ologies, and you make that possible. You 41 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:20.360 also get to make questions for our ologists. I may 42 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:22.400 be saying your name on the show, but we also 43 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:24.439 like to read a review every week, because, as you know, 44 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:26.120 I read them all and then I pick one. And 45 00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:29.680 this week's comes from Andrea O Karina or Andrea or 46 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.919 Andrea Okarina, who wrote, Hey, bestie, I feel like Mulder 47 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:35.360 talking to anyone who will listen except to talk about 48 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.280 your podcast and not aliens. I hope you read this. Hey, 49 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:40.759 guess what I did? And maybe I read your name wrong, 50 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:42.199 but I read it a couple times, so hopefully I 51 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:44.599 got it right. Thank you everyone who leaves reviews. I 52 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:48.319 read them and sometimes I weep in the best way. Okay, curiology, 53 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:50.360 let's get into it. I've been waiting years for this. 54 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:54.680 So curiology comes from curiologic, which means representing things by 55 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:57.439 their pictures instead of by symbols, and it comes from 56 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:01.639 a Greek word curio loggia, meaning op language. And where 57 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:03.719 can you kick this off with a bit of debate 58 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:07.199 about this term with our three ologists. Let's get into 59 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:12.159 it with curiologists. Jennifer Daniel Keith Brony and who you'll 60 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:34.240 hear from first, Jeremy Birch. Now, okay, there is a 61 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:36.599 little bit of controversy about theology. 62 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:40.039 For this topic is the yes, I love controversy. 63 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:45.840 Okay, good. So this topic has been the inception of 64 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:48.719 all of ologies, which has changed my whole life. Is 65 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:50.879 a big one for okay, okay, which is why I 66 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:52.199 needed to call in the big guy. 67 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:54.400 I feel depression, I know, okay. 68 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:58.840 So ology started because twenty years ago, twenty one years ago, 69 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:01.080 I was on the internet. There was a baby baby website, 70 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.280 like a GeoCities type of website, or. 71 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:06.800 An angel Fire or a classic classic. 72 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:09.840 And it listed all the ologies and I landed on 73 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:11.199 that page because I was trying to come up with 74 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:13.719 a name for an art company that I was starting, 75 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.600 and I wanted to know if curiology was a real word. 76 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:20.920 And I found out via this little website that it 77 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:22.360 means writing with pictures. 78 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:23.079 Okay. 79 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:25.000 So I was an illustrator at the time, so like 80 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:28.560 writing with pictures. It definitely I responded well to that, 81 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.680 and so I called my company Curiology Forever. But I 82 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:33.000 in the back of my head, I always had this 83 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:35.160 list of ologies that I wanted to do something with, 84 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:37.759 make a book or do you know it's sad. And 85 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:40.519 so when it came time to do an emoji's episode, 86 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:44.399 I am of the belief that it is somewhat like 87 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.680 writing with pictures because you're conveying something, but you're shaking 88 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:49.920 your head a little well nothing, no, no, no. 89 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:51.759 No, I no, I do I agree? You know you 90 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:54.879 know the first thing. It often happens in any kind 91 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.160 of discussion of emojis. Some people feel like it's a 92 00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:59.639 language and a way of communicating and it's not. But 93 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:01.639 I think you're right. I'm not shaking my head. In fact, 94 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:06.160 I think I meant to nod, because that's the etymology 95 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:09.240 of emoji. That's what the word emoji means, this picture 96 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:13.720 character in Japanese. So I think you couldn't be more accurate, 97 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:15.360 almost to the actual meaning. 98 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:18.519 So that you are a creologist, then I love that. 99 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:23.319 I mean, that makes me sound much more impressive. Thought. Yeah, 100 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:23.920 And how. 101 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:27.920 About our active Unicode board member and an emoji designer, 102 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:30.519 Jennifer Daniel, does she approve. 103 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:33.319 A free dictionary is telling me the representation of things 104 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:37.480 or sounds by means of her picture instead of symbols 105 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:39.680 or words. 106 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:44.160 So would that be I feel like emojis that that applies. 107 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.319 And if it doesn't count, you can tell me why. 108 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:49.720 Geology is great. Creology is great. You know, when I 109 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:54.839 think about emoji, I think historically they are firmly grounded 110 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:57.920 in a visual space. But as we start to communicate 111 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:00.920 outside of SMS text messaging, which is kind of a 112 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:05.160 legacy of the past, it's not a purely visual form anymore. 113 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:05.639 You know. 114 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:09.319 It really is supplemental to gesture and intonation and body 115 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:12.000 language and all of these things. But there is without 116 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.800 a doubt that emoji have a visual representation, in which 117 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.720 case it would be perfectly suitable for creology. 118 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:21.600 Okay, so far two for two on curiology, which delights me. 119 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.399 But how about the current editor in chief of Emojipedia, 120 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:28.800 professional emoji translator, Keith Brony, who literally wrote his dissertation 121 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:29.959 on the use of emojis. 122 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:33.720 What's his take in terms of being a creologist. I mean, 123 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:38.399 the emoji keyboard is not just a set of you know, 124 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:43.839 literal pictographic depictions of objects. There is a lot of 125 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:48.560 idiograms in there as well. There's the classic heart idiograms, 126 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:51.319 where that's not a literal depiction of a human heart, 127 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:57.160 but people associate that particular design with affection. There's also, 128 00:06:57.240 --> 00:06:59.680 of course, all of the various smiley faces that have 129 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:02.800 those ideograms kind of within them, as well as the 130 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:05.600 face with two big hard eyes as the face surrounded 131 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:08.360 by hearts. There's the face kind of blowing, kind of 132 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:11.120 a kiss that has a little heart they're representing it. 133 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:14.040 So the emoji keyboard is a kind of a mix 134 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:19.000 of genuine representations of objects, but there's also so many 135 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:23.319 metaphorical symbolic representations of concept as well, So it's kind of. 136 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:24.160 A mix of both. 137 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:26.959 In the category of the smiley emojis, I mean, there's 138 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:31.959 so many expressions there that obviously we with our faces 139 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.399 cannot literally do. I mean, we cannot turn our eyes 140 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:37.920 into hearts, we cannot turn our eyes into stars. 141 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:38.399 You know. 142 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:41.839 The various ways in which sweat drops or tear drops 143 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:45.560 are utilized across the smiley faces are a very cartoonish 144 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:48.600 in nature. I mean, a lot of the design conventions 145 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:52.680 used across the emoji keyboard are drawn from comic book 146 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.800 conventions or conventions in anime and manga. 147 00:07:56.279 --> 00:07:58.519 I had no idea about the influence of comic book 148 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.639 ard on emoji design. It also came up talking to 149 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.639 Jennifer who mentioned the work of Neil Kohne, who's a 150 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:09.279 cognitive scientist and a comics theorist. And Neil was nominated 151 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.120 for a twenty twenty one Eisner Award, which is like 152 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:15.879 the Oscars for Comics for best academic scholarly work. And 153 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:19.480 he wrote a book Who Understands Comics, questioning the universality 154 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:23.519 of visual language comprehension, and that presents this theory that 155 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:27.639 he has that drawings and sequential images are structured the 156 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:30.000 same as language. So I don't know, maybe we can 157 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:32.440 get him on the show sometime to discuss comics. I 158 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:35.519 don't know what that would be. Maybe graphic nurotology actually 159 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:38.120 scratch that. I just looked it up, and people do 160 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:41.200 use comicology to talk about this art. We're going to 161 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:44.080 workshop it maybe a later day we'll have that episode anyway, 162 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:45.000 take it away, Jennifer. 163 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:48.759 He's amazing. For example, he collected a large number of 164 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:52.639 manga and comic books and then all the faces that 165 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:55.840 were in each one of these, created a taxonomy of 166 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:59.840 the different facial expressions and identified sixty nine unique expressions 167 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:02.919 that all had very distinct meaning. So I took those 168 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:06.320 sixty nine expressions and then said, Okay, this one's represented 169 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:08.840 an emoji. This one's represented an emoji, this one isn't 170 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:12.799 oh wow, this one is. This one's like similar enough. 171 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:15.600 But then there was one that was like paperification because 172 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:19.320 it's paper magazine. Right when the character kind of wants 173 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:21.759 to disappear, they kind of turn into paper and float away. 174 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:22.840 Oh wow. 175 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:25.840 And so between that and this other convention, which was 176 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.639 changing the opacity of a character to make them all transparent, 177 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:32.039 we got dotted line face, so you're disappearing, and we 178 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:33.000 got melty face. 179 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:34.000 Wow. 180 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:37.080 You are able to take these conventions. And that's the 181 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.440 thing is, like you're you can never really make something new. 182 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:41.360 I think that's a common misconception that you have to 183 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:44.039 make something new, but it's really something that's existed for 184 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:44.759 a really, really well. 185 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:47.639 One time, Jared had this viral tweet about how most 186 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:51.399 domestic partnerships are just urgently demanding that your partner look 187 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:53.200 at your pet, like, look at them, look at them, 188 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:55.879 even though they're exactly the same as they always are. 189 00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:00.159 And this tweet continues to make the rounds for years, 190 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:02.399 and I always think that some of the most resonant 191 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:05.559 or successful bits of art or comedy or whatever aren't 192 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:07.679 something that no one has ever seen before, but actually 193 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:11.200 identifying something everyone's familiar with but no one has really 194 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:14.200 named or pointed out, at least not recently. That also 195 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:17.519 seems to be what makes a successful new emoji as well, 196 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:20.720 So the little tiny picture that you didn't know how 197 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:24.159 much you needed. Anyway, back to talking to Keith about 198 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:27.159 the question of curiology, I asked him if he thought 199 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:31.080 it would be closer to the study of symbolic communication 200 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:32.639 via semiotics. 201 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:37.440 Emojis kind of sit in this fascinating place because they 202 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:43.039 are a part of our keyboards. So it is fair 203 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.159 enough to say that there's a huge element of curiological 204 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:48.559 work in kind of dealing with emojis. There's a lot 205 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:51.080 of semiotics as well. There's a lot of linguistics, there's 206 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:52.279 a lot of design thinking. 207 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:54.960 Okay, I'm calling that three for three. I think that's 208 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.919 a slam dunk. Now. Some could argue that curiology is 209 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:02.399 a more literal use of images as language, like with hieroglyphics, 210 00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:06.159 But until we start an IX podcast, I'm standing by curiology, 211 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:09.840 all right, let's get into the history of emojis with Jeremy. 212 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:11.279 When did emoji start? 213 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:13.639 You know what? So that one of the confusing bits 214 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:15.919 about the early emoji history is just the fact that 215 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:18.080 I guess a lot of us sit around and I 216 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:21.000 say us of I'm thirty eight. So for a reference, 217 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.240 So when I grew up, a popular messaging app was 218 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:26.360 MSN Messenger in Australia. I know over here Aol instant 219 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.039 messengers popular and they had like Smiley's as well, and 220 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:33.840 people are often like, aren't they emojis too? And they 221 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.759 look very similar. But the reason that emoji became I 222 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:41.600 guess universal, became on every platform is that they existed 223 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:44.840 in Japan and the idea was you could insert them 224 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:48.159 into regular text. You could have some normal text and 225 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:50.759 put it alongside. That didn't matter which SMS you were 226 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:54.440 using which platform, and that's sort of their origin story. 227 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:56.720 And then the world expanded and we needed to be 228 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:58.519 compatible with each other, so the rest of the world 229 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:01.440 needed emoji support. Otherwise we could talked to our Japanese friends, 230 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:04.240 and our Japanese friends would not be interested in mobile 231 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:07.240 platforms from Apple and Google, which was their priority at 232 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:07.559 the time. 233 00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:11.399 And when it comes to how they're displayed on different 234 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:14.799 phones and different computers. Is there a code that says 235 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:17.679 this is going to be someone weeping and melting, and 236 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:20.759 then every different platform has to have a certain thing 237 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:22.320 that represents that code. 238 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:25.679 Yes. The origin of every emoji having a name is 239 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:28.440 that in the early days, an emoji had a name, 240 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:30.480 and each platform could do what they want with that. 241 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.000 You'd have an emoji that says smiling face and you 242 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:36.279 go easy, oh that, yeah, what, But then you get 243 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:39.320 ones like face with handover mouth And this one was 244 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.799 complicated because some platforms made the eyes look like they 245 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.440 were laughing, some made the eyes look like they were serious. 246 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:47.360 So if you imagine a face with a hand over 247 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:49.960 the mouth, that can either be sort of shocked or 248 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.559 I'm sorry, or it can be haha. It's very funny. 249 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:57.159 And there's definitely been a plenty of people online who 250 00:12:57.159 --> 00:12:59.639 are run into trouble with this sort of influences and 251 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:03.240 sort of a minus celebrities who might react to a 252 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:06.799 news story thinking they're being sincere or you know, shocked, 253 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:09.399 and other people see it on their phone is laughing, 254 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:11.840 which is not what you want to do. 255 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:14.000 Has that that's happened to celebrities, has. 256 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.799 That it's definitely happened to celebrities. 257 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:18.320 Oh, this definitely happens all the time, And some quick 258 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:21.879 googling will take you to plenty of articles sharing emoji fails, 259 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:25.600 which mostly seemed to be related to individuals who are 260 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:30.440 just surely trying to express grief or sympathy through a text, 261 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.840 usually related to an injury or the death of a 262 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.039 pet or a loved one, and they use the crying 263 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:39.320 emoji but accidentally hit the cry laughing emoji, which is 264 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:42.720 just so sinister and cruel. But I did find one 265 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:46.559 little fun celeb emoji mix up pretty recently, and in 266 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.600 September twenty twenty two, when Queen Elizabeth is I passed away, 267 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:54.480 beloved pop Diva Share included in her text a morning, 268 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.080 I'm so proud she was a and then added the 269 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.720 emoji for a bowl, which looked a lot like Cher 270 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:03.799 was calling the leek queen a cow. Now, initially some 271 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:07.080 thought perhaps she meant to use the goat emoji, calling 272 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:10.159 her the greatest of all time. However, a student fans 273 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.120 did their own like be Booby boob processing and decoded 274 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:15.919 that Cher was actually saying, I'm so proud she was 275 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:19.320 a Taurus because Sha and Queen Elizabeth II apparently shared 276 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:22.240 the same Earth sign in the sun position of their 277 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:25.240 zodiac charts. And the end of that tweet was that 278 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:27.440 Sher was happy the queen had a great sense of humor. 279 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:30.799 So I'm I'm sure everyone in all astral planes got 280 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.480 a kick out of it. Cher When I die, you 281 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:35.519 can call me a cow. It would be an honor 282 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:37.799 anything but the thumbs up. And we're going to get 283 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:38.279 to that later. 284 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:41.360 There's another instance where the drooling emoji for a while 285 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:44.120 there on some platforms looked like you could barely tell 286 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.200 the drool was there, so you might think it's just 287 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.480 a nice smiley face. On other's sort of this ridiculous 288 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:53.600 cartoon eyes, giant eyes with giant pools of water coming 289 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:57.639 out the corner of the lip, And if you're posting that, going, ah, 290 00:14:57.679 --> 00:14:59.480 this looks nice, you might not have even noticed this 291 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:01.519 a little d let the corner on one phone. So 292 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:04.600 there was an era where that was happening a lot. 293 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:07.799 And then the last few years the companies have kind 294 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:10.879 of got together and there's a lot more consistency. Now 295 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:12.720 you can be a lot more confident. In the last 296 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.240 three or so years that your emoji, it might not 297 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.000 have the same style, or might be glossy, or might 298 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:20.440 be flat shaded, but it's going to look pretty close 299 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.559 whereas five ten years ago, well it's the wild West 300 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:24.480 out there with some of them. 301 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.679 When it comes to how they're coded, does that mean 302 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:31.919 that different devices have to say, Okay, well, when I 303 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:36.600 get this code in, that means this is going to 304 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:38.759 pop up for it, And so we have to make 305 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:41.240 sure that it's not too different so that the cry 306 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:45.360 laugh doesn't look too weepy on one and have a 307 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:47.480 completely different meaning depending on the user. 308 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.600 Yes. Yeah, And I think that was probably something that 309 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.960 was less appreciated in the earlier days of emoji. It 310 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.399 really felt like, Okay, here are a bunch of code points, 311 00:15:56.840 --> 00:15:59.039 go off and design them, and I everyone went off, 312 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:02.320 and they're like, I just made the most beautiful cucumber. 313 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:05.200 Like everyone went often design their own emoji, And what 314 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:09.679 happened was the opposite of what Unicode wanted to happen, 315 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:12.559 which is that you wanted to be able to send 316 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:17.200 in any language what you intended to someone else. But 317 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:20.720 if I was sending you a cucumber emoji for my 318 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:24.759 Android device and on your Apple device. It is a cucumber, 319 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:26.120 but it's been cut up. 320 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:29.559 Oh yeah, depends on the context. 321 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:32.399 Of why I'm sending a cucumber. Completely different things. Yeah, 322 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:36.039 And noone wants to be misunderstood, and so I think 323 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:39.840 in recent years there's been a real concerted effort to 324 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.919 reconcile meaningful variances of interpretation, And the ones that were 325 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:49.120 most egregious were probably the faces, because one, they're emotional, 326 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:51.600 and so those are a lot harder, are like infinite 327 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:53.960 Prismatic emotions are hard to capture on one image. And 328 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:58.120 we're also evolved to read micro expressions, so even something 329 00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:01.399 that's an eyebrow that's slightly less concave then another can 330 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:03.240 be interpreted differently. 331 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.599 Speaking of misunderstood emojis, I think it's safe to say 332 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:10.119 that one of the most famously ambiguous emojis we've all 333 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:13.000 been there is the one with the two hands pressed together. 334 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.440 Are they praying hands or is it a high five? 335 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.680 Who's lying and I'm praying for closure, I'm going to 336 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:20.640 high five anyone who can give it to me in 337 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:22.559 this case, Keith, give us a hand. 338 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:29.480 Actually, the folded hands emoji was never intended to be 339 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:32.279 a high five emoji. Now that's not to say that 340 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.519 it has never been used as a high five emoji. 341 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.519 But if you look at this emoji's earliest designs on 342 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:44.359 some platforms, take, for example, the Microsoft emoji says it 343 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:49.359 actually depicts what the original name of that emoji was, 344 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:55.160 which was person with folded hands. And listeners can go 345 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.720 to Emojipedia, they can go to the folded hands emoji page, 346 00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:00.680 they can go down to Microsoft often that they can 347 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.319 see all of the historic emoji designs, and what we 348 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.559 will see from several years ago is a person with 349 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.240 both of their hands folded their face a bit solemn, 350 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.160 a gesture associated of course with prayer or maybe not 351 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:20.480 mastee or in certain countries like Japan, like expressing thanks. Now, 352 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.079 if you go to certain platforms and you enter in 353 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:27.599 high five into an emoji search bar, it will suggest 354 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.799 the folded hands emoji, which is one of the spaces 355 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:35.200 where this possible interpretation has come from. But if you 356 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:37.799 actually look at how people use this emoji, and it 357 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:40.359 actually is one of the most popular across the world, 358 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:45.160 high five is an incredibly niche use case. I will 359 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.880 say this, there is really no right and wrong way 360 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.240 to use an emoji. It all comes down to whether 361 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:56.759 or not the person at the other end of the 362 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:01.240 message you're sending will be able to interpret the emoji correctly. 363 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:04.400 So there you have it, once and for all here 364 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:08.240 on ologies. Is the emoji praying hands or is it 365 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:13.640 a high five? And the definitive answer is yes. So okay. 366 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.519 But let's get back to the early days, the growth 367 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:20.079 and the spread of emoji. When did it make the 368 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.359 jump from Japan? Because I remember I didn't get an 369 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.119 iPhone until like two thousand and nine or something, and 370 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:29.039 then I remember when my friend Micah sent me the 371 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:30.839 first emoji I'd ever seen. I think it was like 372 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.720 an arm flexing, and I was like, well, how did 373 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:33.880 you put the tiny picture in there? 374 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:34.400 Good emoji? 375 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:38.039 Yeah, it's a great emoji. But when did it start 376 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:39.640 to spread culturally? 377 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:43.000 So around two thousand and nine to twenty twelve, you know, 378 00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:46.000 it was almost like a It wasn't deliberate, but it 379 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:49.119 almost had all the cues of a viral soft launch 380 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.160 because I was sort of hidden at first, get to 381 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.599 download special apps, and so the first time nearly any 382 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:55.480 of a sort was when we had our cool friend 383 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:58.240 who'd send us an emoji and he'd be like, wow, 384 00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:01.039 I've got to get that. And and that wasn't intention 385 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.200 a little, It just hadn't hadn't finished making iOS compatible 386 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:06.079 with Japan. So some people knew how to get to it, 387 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.880 some people didn't. But really it was around twenty twelve 388 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:11.319 when they became standardized and you could use them on 389 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.400 theoretically every phone. And then I don't think that the 390 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.400 idea of them being an exciting item of pop culture 391 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:20.559 that we could all rally around and go I love 392 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:22.519 this emoji or I like that emoji, And that would 393 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:24.039 have been around twenty fourteen. 394 00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:28.759 I would say, do you remember when you updated your 395 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.359 phone and had it on your keyboard for the first time? 396 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:32.440 Oh? For sure. 397 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:32.839 Yeah. 398 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:36.839 Remember driving from Arizona to California for some road trip 399 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.920 and a new iPhone I suppose came out and it 400 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.079 wasn't default installed, so you had to download this other 401 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:47.880