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Speaker 4: Welcome to PLoud Save America. I'm Jon Favrea, I'm Jen Pfeiffer.
Speaker 4: On today's show, Donald Trump unloads recycled election conspiracies and
Speaker 4: it impossible to follow primetime address. His teleprompter operator was
Speaker 4: apparently making money betting on his speeches, his media company
Speaker 4: is selling Wall Street access to his truths, and his
Speaker 4: vice president is demanding taxpayer funded helicopter rides for his
Speaker 4: kid's golf lesson, We'll dig into those stories, plus JD
Speaker 4: Vance's attempt to win back Joe Rogan and Pete Hegseth's
Speaker 4: obsession with testosterone. Then Alex Wagner talks to Michigan Senate
Speaker 4: candidate Abdul al Sayed about the tense primary in that state.
Speaker 4: It's heading into the final home stretch. Speaking of Alex,
Speaker 4: we're always adding new perks for Friends of the Pod,
Speaker 4: and now subscribers can listen to Alex Wagner's Runaway Country
Speaker 4: ad free. Welcome to the ad free group of pods
Speaker 4: Alex Wagner's.
Speaker 3: The Inner Circle if you will.
Speaker 4: And to everyone else if you haven't subscribed already. Now
Speaker 4: you get Alex's pod ad free as well as this one,
Speaker 4: as well as Pods of the World and Offline and
Speaker 4: Love It or Leave It, and all your favorite croocket pods,
Speaker 4: and you get subscriber only shows like Polar Coaster with
Speaker 4: this guy that I'm doing the pod.
Speaker 3: With right here, which which never had ads, which never.
Speaker 4: Had ads because it's subscriber only, Pods of America only
Speaker 4: friends you get and you get to be supporting independent media.
Speaker 4: So when Donald Trump, you know, screams at Brendan Carr
Speaker 4: to pull everyone's license, can't do that with us because
Speaker 4: we don't have a broadcast license. Cool, yes, silver lining,
Speaker 4: That's what I think. Cricket dot com slash friends. If
Speaker 4: you want to subscribe, all right, Let's get to Trump's
Speaker 4: big primetime address, which he built as really big news,
Speaker 4: really big news. It doesn't get bigger. It's so big
Speaker 4: that we are recording this at seven pm on Thursday
Speaker 4: night because we wanted to bring you our analysis of
Speaker 4: this speech, which is why we're here late because it
Speaker 4: was so big.
Speaker 3: Just like a table of nine people at CNN.
Speaker 4: Dozens of twenty twenty election deniers got called to the
Speaker 4: White House for a top secret preview. Ohio Senator Bernie
Speaker 4: Moreno said it would be the most important presidential address
Speaker 4: since the Cuban missile crisis, and at nine pm Eastern
Speaker 4: on Thursday night, this is what we got. Though this
Speaker 4: might be news to you unless you're a Fox or
Speaker 4: CBS viewer, since those are the only networks that carried
Speaker 4: it live. CBS really only did like half the speech
Speaker 4: and then they sort of like gave context around it.
Speaker 4: But anyway, here's what you missed tonight.
Speaker 5: I'm announcing the immediate declassification and release of critical intelligence
Speaker 5: revealing shocking vulnerabilities in our election infrastructure. This evidence shows
Speaker 5: that the election system we have dangerously exposes and really
Speaker 5: exposes like levels never thought possible, to hacking, exploitation, and
Speaker 5: foreign interference. Just as disturbingly, this vital information has for
Speaker 5: many years been covered up and hidden from you. They
Speaker 5: wanted to just make you sound like your president wasn't
Speaker 5: so hot, when actually your president has done a great
Speaker 5: job recently, we found significant numbers of burn bags, members
Speaker 5: of the deep state, very very famous group of people.
Speaker 5: Many cases they did not want and they just didn't
Speaker 5: want it, fought like hell not to have it. Donald
Speaker 5: Trump to win. In a rare move, NBC and ABC
Speaker 5: fake News have both said that they would not cover
Speaker 5: this speech. They knew what it was about. They and
Speaker 5: others in the media part of a plot. They want
Speaker 5: to continue this fraud for whatever reason. They want to
Speaker 5: keep it going. Addressing this crisis of election security demands
Speaker 5: that Congress must pass the Save America Act.
Speaker 4: Wow, So that was something you know in our meeting
Speaker 4: before the speech earlier this week, you said it would
Speaker 4: probably just be a bunch of rambling nothing that no
Speaker 4: one would pay attention to and think about more than
Speaker 4: twenty four to forty eight hours afterwards. And I kind
Speaker 4: of think you nailed it in.
Speaker 3: Well, I had to get one right.
Speaker 4: Eventually, Let's get to Trump's actual claims, which, honestly, I mean,
Speaker 4: we played that super cut, but it was hard to follow.
Speaker 4: And we have followed this stuff for like ten years.
Speaker 4: And also, like before the speech, while we were waiting
Speaker 4: around in the office to record tonight, I was like
Speaker 4: going back and reading things about the twenty twenty election
Speaker 4: and what had been debunked, just so I could prepare
Speaker 4: for this. And still it was hard to follow that,
Speaker 4: and that stuff.
Speaker 3: Wasn't even really helpful. You didn't even have being an
Speaker 3: expert in the conspiracy theories up to this point. Was
Speaker 3: that helpful because these were new ish conspiracy theories.
Speaker 4: Let go, Let's go through his actual claims. Starting in
Speaker 4: twenty twenty, China allegedly acquired two hundred and twenty million
Speaker 4: US voter files, and the deep State hid this from Trump. Now,
Speaker 4: all the documents that the White House released also confirm
Speaker 4: what they intelligence agencies and the government found back in
Speaker 4: twenty twenty when Trump was president, that not a single
Speaker 4: vote was changed, and also the voter files, voter information,
Speaker 4: voter registration information is public in most states. You can
Speaker 4: just get the information. So anybody did get it, the
Speaker 4: idea that our names and addresses or somewhere sitting in China,
Speaker 4: they're also sitting out there on the internet.
Speaker 3: Anyone can get it. Every campaign has it. It didn't
Speaker 3: require any hacking or in neefarious moves to get it.
Speaker 3: What do they want to do with it? Were their
Speaker 3: intentions good, probably not, but it was trough, tried to
Speaker 3: make it sound much scarier than it actually was.
Speaker 4: Our voting machines are vulnerable, didn't really give a lot
Speaker 4: of evidence for that. That was all recycled stuff that
Speaker 4: the intelligence agency had said. There's like potential for vulnerabilities
Speaker 4: and some electronic voting machines, but nothing has happened. And
Speaker 4: you know, other nefarious actors and other countries may have
Speaker 4: been looking at ways to hack into or interfere with
Speaker 4: voting machines, but no one has done it, and so
Speaker 4: there's no news there. There was a random episode in
Speaker 4: Michigan in twenty twenty where a bunch of suspicious voter
Speaker 4: registration forms were flagged to the police and then nothing
Speaker 4: happened and no votes were changed and no people were registered,
Speaker 4: and I guess it was never prosecuted, and now Trump
Speaker 4: once that prosecuted.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's I mean, the thing about that is
Speaker 3: this has happened in the past. That actually happened on
Speaker 3: a race I worked on many many years ago, where
Speaker 3: people were doing what a registration drive and they just
Speaker 3: filled out the forms in order to get paid, which
Speaker 3: is fraud, but it's not voter fraud because the people
Speaker 3: who got registered, if they either don't exist, or if
Speaker 3: they do exist, they don't know they're registered, so they
Speaker 3: don't vote.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's it's an old one. It's been public.
Speaker 4: It's not that was anything new. DHS apparently found a
Speaker 4: bunch of non citizens registered to vote, but didn't find
Speaker 4: any non citizens who did vote. Also can't really be verified.
Speaker 4: Who knows what the non citizens registering to vote are.
Speaker 4: We haven't seen those documents yet. And then big one.
Speaker 4: There were some there was some election meddling. There were
Speaker 4: some votes changed in Venezuela by Nicholas Maduro.
Speaker 3: Someone's got to get that Maduro guy. That guy should
Speaker 3: be served in time.
Speaker 4: One of the revelations tonight was that Nicholas Maduro meddled
Speaker 4: in Venezuela's elections, and somehow that ended up in Donald
Speaker 4: Trump's primetime address. At a time when we are at
Speaker 4: war with Iran, the straight is closed, inflation is high,
Speaker 4: people are struggling. There's wildfire smoke that is making some
Speaker 4: half the cities in the Northeast and the Midwest unbreathable,
Speaker 4: can't even.
Speaker 3: Go outside, but not getting explosive diarrhea.
Speaker 4: That forgot about that. Right, there's led us explosive diarrhea.
Speaker 4: And yet the president went out tonight to talk about
Speaker 4: random recycled voter conspiracy, election fraud conspiracy theories and let
Speaker 4: us know that Nicholas Maduro meddled in his own elections,
Speaker 4: and that the Chinese have access to the vote or
Speaker 4: file data that we do too.
Speaker 3: I mean a couple of just key points. Star, I
Speaker 3: just want to hone in on first. You said it,
Speaker 3: I'm going to say it again. It's very important. No
Speaker 3: one has presented any evidence that votes were.
Speaker 4: Changed, including the Trump administration this time around this year.
Speaker 3: They could not find that they went into this time
Speaker 3: around as well. Yeah, they cannot do it. The second
Speaker 3: thing here is that they China apparently acquired public information.
Speaker 3: Don't love it, but nothing you can really do about it.
Speaker 3: We make a public next. The idea, to the extent
Speaker 3: that there's allegations, although this is very much just speed
Speaker 3: by the intelligent community, that China was going to be
Speaker 3: involved in some sort of misinformation campaign. They're going to
Speaker 3: try to get involved with like higher journalists or media influencers,
Speaker 3: or build bots or all of that. All of the
Speaker 3: things that Russia did on Trump's behalf in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: to be noted, No, not a ton of evidence that
Speaker 3: they actually did it, but that they thought about doing it.
Speaker 3: But we also know that in every election, foreign intelligence
Speaker 3: agencies try to interfere in our election. Russia tries it,
Speaker 3: Iran has tried it, the Chinese have apparently tried it.
Speaker 3: Nothing new there, no evidence had actually changed any botes.
Speaker 3: I think the most important thing here is if there
Speaker 3: were huge gaps in our election security infrastructure that allowed
Speaker 3: China to penetrate to do these things that Trump claims
Speaker 3: they did do, the person who was in charge at
Speaker 3: that time should be held accountable and that Donald Trump.
Speaker 4: No careful on that, because he got ahead of that
Speaker 4: tonight by basically saying that everyone that this was all
Speaker 4: uncovered and this was all known in twenty twenty, but
Speaker 4: it was all the deep state, and the deep state
Speaker 4: hit it for him. So this is like he's going
Speaker 4: to go after him.
Speaker 3: That's next. That's my next point. His big complaint ra
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time here, is that the people
Speaker 3: who worked for him didn't tell him things right. Well,
Speaker 3: it seems like a management problem. And I would also
Speaker 3: point out that the guy who is the Director of
Speaker 3: National Intelligence who would have been overseeing the people were
Speaker 3: hiding things from Donald Trump is a man named John Radcliffe.
Speaker 3: It's John Ratcliffe in jail. Has he been? Has he been?
Speaker 3: Has he been like shamed out of life? No, he's
Speaker 3: Donald Trump picked in to be his director of the CIA.
Speaker 4: Look, these people, these these are not incompetent public servants.
Speaker 4: These are victims of a deep state plot. Dan, No
Speaker 4: matter who you're talking about, there's always a deep state
Speaker 4: operative responsible for pulling the wool over their eyes.
Speaker 3: And then also, if you were someone who is deeply
Speaker 3: concerned about our election security going forward, would you have
Speaker 3: gutted many of the agencies and eliminated much of the
Speaker 3: funding that goes towards election security? Because that's what Donald
Speaker 3: Trump and Neillon Musk did do.
Speaker 4: One thing that's funny is as everyone is reading all
Speaker 4: you can go to White House duc of to look
Speaker 4: at all these docks that they're really that they declassified
Speaker 4: and released. Because everyone's looking at the docks, they're not
Speaker 4: really matching the president's claims in the speed his own
Speaker 4: his own documents, his own documents. Sam Stein picked up
Speaker 4: this one here. Docs released by Trump today confirmed Russia
Speaker 4: tried to spread claims Biden was engaged in criminal activity
Speaker 4: visa vi Barisma, and that it advanced those narratives with
Speaker 4: US officials and planned a high profile corruption scandal at
Speaker 4: the peak of the twenty twenty presidential campaign. You might
Speaker 4: remember that that scandal turned out to be the subject
Speaker 4: of Donald Trump's first impeachment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, his perfect phone called is Zelenski.
Speaker 4: So that stuff's out there now. There was a lot
Speaker 4: of stuff just about Russia in the docs that Russia
Speaker 4: tried to interfere on behalf of Donald Trump. So they
Speaker 4: put all that out there too. Fucking idiots. Man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so stupid.
Speaker 4: And apparently like there was an administration official told ms
Speaker 4: NOW before the speech, because this was a speech that
Speaker 4: was cooked up, by the way, by John Solomon, the
Speaker 4: pretend journalist who then has become a special government employee,
Speaker 4: and also Bill Palty. And an administration official told ms
Speaker 4: NOW flatly that the intelligence doesn't show what Poulti and
Speaker 4: Solomon claim. Quote, the intelligence just doesn't say what you
Speaker 4: wanted to say. I'm sorry. So they just they cooked
Speaker 4: up some stuff for the President to say in his
Speaker 4: speech and get all mad and and please him please
Speaker 4: grandpa who's getting old and you know, grumpy and wants
Speaker 4: to talk about election conspiracies. And then they just threw
Speaker 4: that in the speech and then they put a bunch
Speaker 4: of dogs that don't really say any of that.
Speaker 3: Cool. What a great issue of everyone's time.
Speaker 4: What a great use of everyone's time. What's your level
Speaker 4: of alarm after listening, because you know, on one hand,
Speaker 4: it's all stupid and they didn't really prove anything, and
Speaker 4: they didn't even make up any good story even they
Speaker 4: didn't even they didn't even put it a good lie.
Speaker 4: On the other hand, it's it's clear that his intention
Speaker 4: is to so doubt among Americans and are in the
Speaker 4: sanctity of our elections, And clearly, as sure as the
Speaker 4: sun comes up, is going to cry foul if Republicans
Speaker 4: lose the midterms.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a man cried foul at an
Speaker 3: election he won in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4: So it's like, you didn't you didn't need a speech
Speaker 4: or a declassifying a bunch of documents for that. But sure,
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: We should be very vigilant because Ronald Trump is going
Speaker 3: to try to interfere in these elections. Like we know
Speaker 3: that that is obvious. I think he has less powered
Speaker 3: to do so than he believes, and a lot of
Speaker 3: Democrats fear. These elections are run by the states. States
Speaker 3: aside how they're run, how the votes are counted, how
Speaker 3: they're certified. Those things are written in law. The courts
Speaker 3: to date have been very skeptical of any of these
Speaker 3: Trump efforts across the board, from twenty twenty all the
Speaker 3: way through here. But he's gonna try, and we should
Speaker 3: be vigital. I am no more worried after this speech
Speaker 3: I was before. This was just stupid. This doesn't like
Speaker 3: I think people thought he was gonna you know, there
Speaker 3: was reporting early on that he was just going to
Speaker 3: declare that John Asoff and Rafael Warnock were illegitimate centators.
Speaker 3: I don't know what power he has to do that,
Speaker 3: but that or that there he would call for the
Speaker 3: seizing of something or the confiscation of this thing. He
Speaker 3: did none of that. He just vomited, did a bunch
Speaker 3: of things. It did make a lot of sense in
Speaker 3: a very tired, monotone voice that was felt a grieved
Speaker 3: the whole time, and then moved.
Speaker 4: To burn bags, burn bags.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was We can get into the
Speaker 3: the performance level of this, but it was I mean,
Speaker 3: I would actually he may need to talk to Ptex
Speaker 3: Ethwick and some of that tea.
Speaker 4: Yelling about the burd. I couldn't follow that one either.
Speaker 4: Something about Obama and burn but.
Speaker 3: We knew about these burn bags was the thing. I
Speaker 3: was trying to remember this because we've actually talked about it,
Speaker 3: because this is thing. I think, these are the Cashptael burn.
Speaker 4: Bags so hard to keep all these episodes.
Speaker 3: I know it's our literally our job is to keep
Speaker 3: these things straight and we can understand what the fuck
Speaker 3: he was saying, Like, what would a normal American think
Speaker 3: of this?
Speaker 4: Before? I mean, we should talk about the the FCC threat.
Speaker 4: The networks who didn't cover my speech, my election fraud
Speaker 4: speech where I spout conspiracies are now going to lose
Speaker 4: their license. They should lose their license. Is that that
Speaker 4: a real threat?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's a thing that Trump really
Speaker 3: would like to see happen, and I'm sure Brendan Carr
Speaker 3: will try to do some things. I don't think he
Speaker 3: really has the ability to do that. Just to make
Speaker 3: this very clear, it is not unusual for networks not
Speaker 3: to air speeches if the topic of the national vice
Speaker 3: addressed is not sufficiently newsworthy. This happened with Obama. None
Speaker 3: of the networks covered Obama's twenty fourteen speech about immigration
Speaker 3: where he's announce imigration and executive Actually they actually was
Speaker 3: news in it, but they all thought it was too
Speaker 3: political to cover. In twenty twenty two, you remember the
Speaker 3: Joe Biden speech on democracy that he gave. None of
Speaker 3: the networks covered that one either because they thought it
Speaker 3: was too political and newsworth This was very political and
Speaker 3: not Newsworthies. And then when you add on top of
Speaker 3: it and you can it was funny to watching Fox's
Speaker 3: coverage because Fox is so afraid of getting another three
Speaker 3: quarters of a billion dollar a lawsuit like they did
Speaker 3: in the dominion suit, and so they were just so
Speaker 3: they promoted the speech, I ever talking about what was
Speaker 3: in the speech, and then after the speech they had
Speaker 3: to repeatedly say Fox can't verify these claims, like the
Speaker 3: lawyers were really all up in Brett Behar's ass, which
Speaker 3: was amusing to watch. So it's not like they can.
Speaker 3: The networks are well within their rights to not cover this,
Speaker 3: and it's not unusual and it's not a Trump arrangement
Speaker 3: syndrome or anything like that. This is a speech that
Speaker 3: was not did not merit that level of coverage, even
Speaker 3: if the things he were going to say were not
Speaker 3: possibly litigious wise.
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Speaker 4: So Republicans had some thoughts on this whole thing before
Speaker 4: the speech. Politico helpfully captures three different outlooks here. First,
Speaker 4: the doomers, like the anonymous former Trump administration official who
Speaker 4: said quote, the people I talked to are scared shitless.
Speaker 4: This is about what it will do to their midterm chances.
Speaker 4: Next is the what can I do? I'm just a
Speaker 4: simple member of Congress cohort, represented here by Senator John
Speaker 4: Kennedy quote. When moms and dads lie down to sleep
Speaker 4: at night, in can't what are they mostly worried about
Speaker 4: I would say cost of living, but he's the president
Speaker 4: and he can talk about whatever he wants. Finally, freaks
Speaker 4: like Steve Bannon said that the quote revelations in the
Speaker 4: speech quote will be the exact tonic the MAGA grassroots
Speaker 4: base need to fire them up to remind them of
Speaker 4: what they're really fighting for in these crucial November elections, Dan,
Speaker 4: who's right?
Speaker 3: I don't think Steve Bannon is right? Like is picture
Speaker 3: this is there a group of January six ers who
Speaker 3: live in swing districts who are just like tapped out
Speaker 3: on Trump, are just waiting for this, for a call
Speaker 3: to arms to go vote, you know, for Mike Lawler
Speaker 3: in New York. I don't think so. I think that
Speaker 3: is code from Steve Bannon.
Speaker 4: All the blood has been squeezed from the stone. There
Speaker 4: is just nothing, there's nothing like what do you? I
Speaker 4: totally agree, like, I just don't understand how this gets
Speaker 4: anyone motivated, especially since it's so hard to fucking follow.
Speaker 3: It's just, yeah, it's so stupid. And the bigger political
Speaker 3: issue here and the reason why that first group of
Speaker 3: scure shaitless people are correct is it's not just the
Speaker 3: crazy things he said, it's what he chose to talk about.
Speaker 3: We are in a world where this is an election
Speaker 3: entirely about affordability. Large majorities of people, including Trump voters
Speaker 3: and people thinking about voting for Republicans in this midterm,
Speaker 3: think that Trump is not spending enough time focusing on
Speaker 3: larn people's costs. So what does he do? We has
Speaker 3: a nationally televised address to talk about declassified intelligence that's
Speaker 3: unintelligible about a six year old election. Yeah, Like, it's
Speaker 3: just you're waiving a sign that says I do not
Speaker 3: care about you. I do not care about your problems.
Speaker 3: I care about me and my problems. And that is
Speaker 3: bad for Republicans.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think it's gonna I don't think it's
Speaker 4: gonna fly. I mean unless they combine. You know, as
Speaker 4: we get closer to the election that he'll probably do
Speaker 4: a you know, the communists and socialist trying to steal
Speaker 4: the election to take over America so they can you know,
Speaker 4: so there can be sharia law and you know, they
Speaker 4: can take all your property, and you know it'll be
Speaker 4: something like that. Like the left, that'll happen. The Left's
Speaker 4: be scary, and the left is scary, and the way
Speaker 4: they're going to win is to steal the election. And
Speaker 4: so that's why I have to be vigilant.
Speaker 3: That that wasn't even the gist of this No, no,
Speaker 3: that was this speech was from what I can tell,
Speaker 3: it was China tried to steal an election in the past,
Speaker 3: and then a bunch of people in the government didn't
Speaker 3: tell me about it. Vote for Republican. It's not a
Speaker 3: good message.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's about right. All right, Well, that's enough of that.
Speaker 4: Trump had the added challenge of delivering that speech tonight
Speaker 4: with a with a new teleprompter operator, and that's because
Speaker 4: his former prompter guy Gabrielle Perez, was placed on unpaid
Speaker 4: leave Thursday morning after it was reported that Perez made
Speaker 4: more than one hundred thousand dollars on Calshi, placing bets
Speaker 4: on words that would appear in the President's speeches. She
Speaker 4: apparently flagged Perez's trades back in March. The same month,
Speaker 4: the White House published a memo warning staffers against trading
Speaker 4: on prediction markets and eventually referred his case to the
Speaker 4: Commodity Futures Trading Commission, which is conducting an investigation. Think
Speaker 4: of how rich we could have gotten if cal she
Speaker 4: was around twenty years ago.
Speaker 3: Is that your first takeaway on this missed opportunity.
Speaker 4: I mean we're talking about a teleprompter and knowing about
Speaker 4: a speech. Yeah, of course, That's what I'm gonna think about.
Speaker 3: I mean, that was your chance.
Speaker 4: Perez, who often makes this is from the ABC story
Speaker 4: that broke the news. Perez, who often makes final edits
Speaker 4: to Trump's speeches, including changes from Trump himself. Oh my god,
Speaker 4: I'd kill a teleprompter operator who was making the final
Speaker 4: changes to the speech. That's terrifying to me. Backed out
Speaker 4: of Betts's mid speech when Trump went off script. He
Speaker 4: was live hatching the aplits.
Speaker 3: This is very inside baseball. But the thing though was
Speaker 3: most stunting about this is the teleprompter operator has the
Speaker 3: rank of Depth Assistant to the President. I know, I
Speaker 3: saw you, which makes him essentially the diplomatic rank of
Speaker 3: an ambassador and one of the highest paid people in
Speaker 3: the White House.
Speaker 4: Yeah. That's a lot of money. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Usually think about this way. The deputy director of the
Speaker 3: NEC has that same rank. The deputy communications director may
Speaker 3: have that rank, doesn't always have that rank. The you know,
Speaker 3: just very very high level people make huge decisions, have
Speaker 3: the same rank as Trump's favorite teleprompter guy. And that's
Speaker 3: your taxpayer money going to pay this guy. And that
Speaker 3: wasn't enough for him because he was making one hundred
Speaker 3: thousand dollars extra off Calci.
Speaker 4: I have a question, why only one hundred thousand dollars. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean this guy, he had all the goods, this
Speaker 4: guy could have just maybe maybe it's just trumping off
Speaker 4: script so much that he couldn't. He was how many moves?
Speaker 4: I mean, Also, it's like talk about the multitasking. You're
Speaker 4: operating the prompter, you're doing that, you're watching that. But
Speaker 4: also now he's going off scripts, and now you got
Speaker 4: to with your other you have your phone in your
Speaker 4: other hand. You're on Calshi. You're trying to change the bet.
Speaker 3: No, you're not changing the bet, you're changing the speech.
Speaker 4: Right, Oh yes, oh my god. A head of ahead
Speaker 4: of tonight's address, Calcy traders, it's just a little fun fact.
Speaker 4: A side note here already waged more than they earlier today.
Speaker 4: They had already wagered more than eight hunred thousand dollars
Speaker 4: on whether Trump says words like horror moves or rigged election.
Speaker 4: He did he did a he did an accomplishment's topper,
Speaker 4: Boy did he It's about how horrible everything was before
Speaker 4: he became president. Now how wonderful everything is, And go
Speaker 4: to Trump r X and here's your Trump accounts.
Speaker 3: He have three websites. The best part was this is
Speaker 3: so funny, he says, And if you want to read
Speaker 3: the documentary, can go to white House dot gov.
Speaker 4: Again, that's a white House dot gov. It's like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: you've never heard of that one.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is very I mean this obviously he's
Speaker 3: a boomer, but this is a pre especially pre Google
Speaker 3: way of doing this, which is people just google it.
Speaker 3: Now you don't really have to do the website.
Speaker 4: But yeah, that was his his his accomplishments list was
Speaker 4: part like he likes to to show that he's a
Speaker 4: winner and take care of everything. But you could have
Speaker 4: taught it was also like the consultants and the political
Speaker 4: people or the Suzi Wilde wherever, is like, you got
Speaker 4: to talk about this, this polls, well, you got to
Speaker 4: talk about this. You got to talk about this, and
Speaker 4: you know, you can talk about all your election conspiracies
Speaker 4: as long as you do this list at the top.
Speaker 3: You know, that's what was the third website he did?
Speaker 3: What else? I got Trump r X and I think
Speaker 3: he did one other one didn't know.
Speaker 4: The Trump accounts, the trumpcout Trump accounts, Yes, yeah, Trump
Speaker 4: accounts for all your kids, so believe it or not.
Speaker 4: The teleprompt operator. That's just one of three corrupt dates
Speaker 4: we have for you from the last forty eight hours.
Speaker 4: Only we could ever get that corrupt dates sting we've
Speaker 4: been asked for or for years whatever someday. On Thursday,
Speaker 4: the Trump Media and Technology Group, the company that owns
Speaker 4: truth Social, announced that it will sell Wall Street Banks
Speaker 4: and investors quote a direct, licensed, real time feed of
Speaker 4: the platform's most market moving truths, including of course, Donald Trump's.
Speaker 4: In other words, the president's family company is now charging
Speaker 4: Wall Street for early ish access to the market moving
Speaker 4: statements of the president. Who will then profit. Why don't
Speaker 4: they just start asking the Treasury to print money for
Speaker 4: the Trumps. That is, I don't know why we're going
Speaker 4: through all of these schemes and this and that, and
Speaker 4: everything's so complicated. Just go to Scott Beston and ask
Speaker 4: them to start printing money. Put in your pocket, walk away.
Speaker 3: This is truly one of the most wildly corrupt things
Speaker 3: that has ever happened. And that's saying a lot. I
Speaker 3: don't that's saying a lot. But I just think about this.
Speaker 3: A truth is a presidential statement we laugh about because
Speaker 3: they go out on this stupid fucking platform that no
Speaker 3: one pays any attention to.
Speaker 4: Well, I was gonna say the Well, it's it's funny
Speaker 4: because the platform is so bad and it's such a
Speaker 4: poor product and badly designed that it's so slow that
Speaker 4: they that basically the fix to make it like Twitter
Speaker 4: is something now that Wall Street has to pay for.
Speaker 3: Well, they basically they're they They're going, is said, think
Speaker 3: of it this way. This is I'm gonna dumb this
Speaker 3: down for people. This would be like if Wall Street
Speaker 3: was paying the president to get a presidential before the
Speaker 3: rest of the people so that they can make instantaneous
Speaker 3: trades off of that information. There's example, President announces a
Speaker 3: new ceasefire with Iran. You can use that to buy
Speaker 3: oil features he says, the end of the ceasefire, you
Speaker 3: can sell your royal future is faster than anyone else
Speaker 3: because you have paid money to the president to get
Speaker 3: access to that market, moving information before everyone else in
Speaker 3: this country.
Speaker 4: And it's not like everyone. It's not like it's a
Speaker 4: pay to play thing where it's open to everyone. No, Like,
Speaker 4: it's not like you know, Twitter pro versus Twitter or whatever,
Speaker 4: you know, whatever the fuck is where you can just
Speaker 4: pay more and now you'll your tweets will come faster.
Speaker 4: It's only available to banks and investors.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's basically as you're getting information on your
Speaker 3: terminal before the public. And in this day and age,
Speaker 3: with the way trades are made, a set five seconds
Speaker 3: is worth millions of millions of a second. It's worth
Speaker 3: millions of dollars.
Speaker 4: I was trying to think of is there a law,
Speaker 4: Is it just a thing that presidents shouldn't be doing?
Speaker 4: Is it in that category, or is there some kind
Speaker 4: of regulation. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the abuse of power.
Speaker 4: I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a high crime and a misdemeanor.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say that the core of the problem
Speaker 4: lies in the fact that the president's market moving statements
Speaker 4: aren't first released by the White House, but by the
Speaker 4: president on his own private media platform. That is that
Speaker 4: is the core of the issue. Yes, that that it
Speaker 4: goes out on truth social first, and then the federal government,
Speaker 4: which is supposed to be responsive to the people. Then
Speaker 4: they put the truth out a couple of seconds after
Speaker 4: Trump does it on Trump bleats.
Speaker 3: There's some obvious things the founders missed. This is one
Speaker 3: that I understand why they be foresee happening.
Speaker 4: Finally, last one, the Secret Service is apparently fed up
Speaker 4: with the Vice president's travel demands, which last week included
Speaker 4: a request to fly his son to a golf lesson
Speaker 4: aboard Marine two, that is, the VP's military helicopter, which
Speaker 4: would have cost taxpayers up to twenty five thousand dollars
Speaker 4: per hour around that though, the trip was scrapped due
Speaker 4: to high winds, but such requests have become so common
Speaker 4: that the Vice President's security detail are reportedly now exchanging
Speaker 4: stickers and challenge coins among themselves that read Bobcat otr's
Speaker 4: Survivors Club, Bobcat being Vance's Secret Service code name OTR
Speaker 4: is an off the record, so it's like a movement
Speaker 4: that's not planned in advance or that's not announced to
Speaker 4: the public in advance. Fun update to this, after ms
Speaker 4: NOW broke the story, Vance canceled another planned helicopter ride
Speaker 4: for his son's golf lesson.
Speaker 3: John are where are his son's golf lessons? Are they
Speaker 3: in Philadelphia? How do kid he get that? Oh, they're
Speaker 3: on the other side of town.
Speaker 4: You remember when Marine one used to take Malia and
Speaker 4: Sasha to school every day?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: It was yes, yes, yes, the thing that happened they
Speaker 4: just did hop on the helicopter. That is what the fuck.
Speaker 3: I've said this before, but I worked for politician once
Speaker 3: who did something that was so fucking stupid that one
Speaker 3: of our advisors said, that is an A plus answer
Speaker 3: to the police. Say one one question of how to
Speaker 3: lose a presidential election this is that you were getting
Speaker 3: taxpayer funded helicopter lessons for your son's golf lessons. It's
Speaker 3: not even like baseball game boy, scouts, charity work. It's
Speaker 3: fucking golf lessons.
Speaker 4: Boy, are we a long way away from hillbilly elogy? Huh?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yes?
Speaker 4: What would me, Mo and Papa say about this?
Speaker 3: From your bootstraps right into the helicopter. I mean it
Speaker 3: is like, he is so fucking lucky that that trip
Speaker 3: was canceled by the wind.
Speaker 4: But then he just it was canceled by the wind,
Speaker 4: but then he planned another one and then canceled another one.
Speaker 4: Because of the story it is. You know, it wasn't like,
Speaker 4: oh close call, it was let's charge your head.
Speaker 3: It's stunning in it and just beyond just a specific one.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine the secret services in charge of the
Speaker 3: Trumps and the Vances. That's their job. And out of that,
Speaker 3: the biggest asshole is Jady Vance. You're you're a more demanding,
Speaker 3: worse boss than Donald Trump.
Speaker 4: How fucking high and mighty is JD Van's going to
Speaker 4: get when someone asked him about this and what kind
Speaker 4: he's going to do? Some kind of how dare you
Speaker 4: talk about my children? Like he's gonna. I just I
Speaker 4: imagine that's what we're going to get from him.
Speaker 3: We shoot an emergency pod because I'm gonna have so
Speaker 3: much to say about It's going to be so bad.
Speaker 3: He's gonna he is right now watching footage of Richard
Speaker 3: Nixon's Checkers speech to try to do this, and he's
Speaker 3: gonna fuck it up.
Speaker 4: I'm I'm I'm even too too young to I mean.
Speaker 3: Obviously I am to the nineteen fifty eight or something like.
Speaker 4: I learned about the Checkers speech at some point in life,
Speaker 4: and it is a piece of information that has now
Speaker 4: gone out of my head.
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Speaker 4: Speaking of jd Vance's travel, he did make the trip
Speaker 4: to Austin this week to sit down with Joe Rogan
Speaker 4: for nearly three hours. Because nothing else is going on,
Speaker 4: it was pure awkwardness sprinkled with occasional attempts at political maneuvering.
Speaker 4: Here are some of the highlights.
Speaker 7: If people want to say we mishandled the Epstein release, guilty,
Speaker 7: we did dissaded, especially the communications of it.
Speaker 8: What do you think should have been done?
Speaker 4: I think that we.
Speaker 7: Should have just dropped everything at the very beginning.
Speaker 8: So what is going on with Iran? Where it seems
Speaker 8: like the president keeps saying that a deal has been reached,
Speaker 8: negotiations have been successful, and then it all falls apart
Speaker 8: and we start.
Speaker 4: Bombing it again? Yeah, So how long do we have here?
Speaker 4: Because it's as.
Speaker 8: Much time as you so if it was your call,
Speaker 8: would you have done exactly the same thing.
Speaker 7: Well, one of the president said.
Speaker 4: Publicly that JD was less enthusiastic about it. I think
Speaker 4: it was the.
Speaker 7: Exact phrase that he used. I mean, my attitude towards
Speaker 7: this man, as you know, is the vice president. I'm
Speaker 7: not a public commentator. Like my job is to give
Speaker 7: the best advice I can to the president. The United
Speaker 7: States Republicans still fundamentally have a cool problem. The thing
Speaker 7: I couldn't get o where Biden is is just bad
Speaker 7: staff work man. The way that he ate ice cream.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's like, you know, we could bring some
Speaker 7: of the stuff up, but it's like they would get
Speaker 7: him eating ice cream in the most ridiculous suggestive way imaginable.
Speaker 4: What suggesting? What's right here? What does he thinking about
Speaker 4: when he sees Joe Biden eating ice cream?
Speaker 3: Sex? He thinks about sex?
Speaker 4: He thinks about sex.
Speaker 3: It's a cardinal rule of this podcast that we do
Speaker 3: not kickshame. We've always believed that no bullshit, no kickshaming.
Speaker 3: But I would say it's weird the JD Vance watches
Speaker 3: Joe bid need ice cream and he thinks the suggestive
Speaker 3: that's weird.
Speaker 4: We can we can bring this up. We can bring
Speaker 4: this up. What are you talking about?
Speaker 3: Awkward?
Speaker 4: So here's one review from The Daily Wires, Ben Shapiro.
Speaker 4: I tuned into Joe Rogan yesterday and heard Bernie Sanders economics,
Speaker 4: Barack Obama's foreign policy, and Rocana's conspiracy theories, and then
Speaker 4: I realized JD. Vance was talking, I want a candidate
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty eight who doesn't mirror the Democrats and
Speaker 4: who can win. Mister VP, this is not the way.
Speaker 4: So Vance tried to tiptoe away from Trump on Epstein
Speaker 4: and Iran. He also did the Jeffrey Epstein had connections
Speaker 4: to Masad and the highest levels of intelligence, CIA, massade,
Speaker 4: all that kind of stuff. So do you think it worked?
Speaker 4: And what does it tell you about how Van sees
Speaker 4: the twenty eight race?
Speaker 3: It did not work. Also, alex Is Rocanna to be
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 4: List, definitely tweeted that out.
Speaker 3: Definitely huge win for him. Also sounds like a pretty
Speaker 3: good candidate to me. Obama's foreign policy, Bernie's economics, and
Speaker 3: Rose take on the Epstein files. Well, I takes on
Speaker 3: the Epstein files are pretty good. Yeah, it's not going
Speaker 3: great for him and he is trying to tiptoe through
Speaker 3: a minefield. But he is very clumsy and he's not
Speaker 3: very good at it, and that that is his Probably
Speaker 3: I'm not here to give jade Ban's political advice, but
Speaker 3: you really have to pick a side. And he's trying
Speaker 3: to be all things to all people. He's trying to
Speaker 3: be Trump's most loyal soldier to the mag of people.
Speaker 3: He's trying to be Joe. He's supposed to get it
Speaker 3: with Joe Rogan about Epstein and and he wants to
Speaker 3: be the anti workut in work people. You can't do
Speaker 3: all those things without it.
Speaker 4: And even if you could, he's not clever enough to
Speaker 4: pull it off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe some political genius could pull that off, but
Speaker 3: he is not that. He is not deaft enough to
Speaker 3: do that. He is awkward, he is uncomfortable, He doesn't
Speaker 3: he can't really do it, like even in this when
Speaker 3: you watch the I didn't watch all of this, obviously
Speaker 3: because I have self respect, but I have watched a
Speaker 3: lot of the Rogan Bans interview. Throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 3: He's trying to like be like, you know, Joe, I
Speaker 3: get you get it. And so he goes to this
Speaker 3: thing where he brings up the MMA fighter at the
Speaker 3: White House, save the Michelle Obama as a man, and
Speaker 3: he thinks Joe Rogan is gonna be on a side
Speaker 3: because what he wants to say to Peele Joe Rogan
Speaker 3: is these fucking woke liberals trying to cancel jokes. They
Speaker 3: don't even get comedy. He just laugh and move on.
Speaker 3: And even Drive Organ was like, I don't know man
Speaker 3: saying that the White House wasn't a great idea, like
Speaker 3: it's the White House, Like I don't know why you'd
Speaker 3: make that joke. He's just like he just can never
Speaker 3: get there. He just cannot do it.
Speaker 4: He can't read other people, which is he's very low petician,
Speaker 4: you can tell with interviews because he doesn't know. He's
Speaker 4: always uncomfortable with the audience, with the interviewer because he's
Speaker 4: trying to read what's going to make them laugh or
Speaker 4: not or whatever, and he doesn't know.
Speaker 3: He is a little bit of Al Gore running for
Speaker 3: pres in two thousand. Mmm, you're like overthinking everything you're
Speaker 3: doing and it's and you can't and you're missing the
Speaker 3: connection people. You see it with crowds too well.
Speaker 4: In the other parallel. There is going to be like
Speaker 4: Gore's relationship to Clinton and how Or tried to separate
Speaker 4: himself a little bit from Clinton and that was a
Speaker 4: hard thing to do. Yeah, this is and Bill Clinton
Speaker 4: is not Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: And Bill Clinton did not take that well either.
Speaker 4: He didn't but was also in despite his his scandal
Speaker 4: at the time, still popular. And Donald Trump Trump, and
Speaker 4: don't think.
Speaker 3: Don Trump appropriated to me in the sixties, like Bill
Speaker 3: Clinton's was.
Speaker 4: Not going to be popular, but also not going to
Speaker 4: be like hey, JD, if you need to criticize me,
Speaker 4: don't worry, go for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, I suspect not.
Speaker 4: So that's going to be tricky for him. All right,
Speaker 4: last thing before we get to Alex's conversation with Abdul.
Speaker 4: It's been an extremely busy week in politics, so you
Speaker 4: could be forgiven if you missed this major announcement from
Speaker 4: Secretary of War Pete Hagsath.
Speaker 9: Today, I'm authorizing a new screening program for testoster own
Speaker 9: deficiency for our service members, ensuring you have the right
Speaker 9: testosterone levels.
Speaker 3: To operate at your absolute best.
Speaker 9: Because it's well established science that as we age, testosterone
Speaker 9: levels often naturally drop. This initiative. It's not about artificial enhancement.
Speaker 9: It's about restoring and optimizing your natural capabilities, protecting your longevity,
Speaker 9: and ensuring you have the biological foundation required to sustain
Speaker 9: the fight.
Speaker 4: So if you visit high Tdepartment Ofwar dot com, you
Speaker 4: can get twenty percent off your next testosterone treatment by
Speaker 4: using the code PETE at checkout.
Speaker 3: We are like three minutes away from ptexeth offering penis
Speaker 3: enhancements to TRUS service members.
Speaker 4: It's so what that was fucking nuts.
Speaker 3: He's so down, some weird rabbit hole born off his
Speaker 3: own insecurities.
Speaker 4: I was looking into this because I was where did
Speaker 4: this come? Because I'm aging. No, my my t is,
Speaker 4: my tea is fine, don't worry.
Speaker 3: That's what everyone says podcaster until it's too late.
Speaker 4: Like I was like, is this just a random MAHA thing?
Speaker 4: And it is, But like there was some report a
Speaker 4: couple of years ago, and this was the thing in
Speaker 4: Congress where like long deployments can sometimes reduce testosterone levels
Speaker 4: in military. But like so you take as usual, like
Speaker 4: a kernel of something, and then you turn it into this,
Speaker 4: like like all these doctors are like, no, of course
Speaker 4: you don't. You don't screen for this unless someone's having symptoms,
Speaker 4: and then you look at it and then also test
Speaker 4: and like the idea that you're just going to test
Speaker 4: everyone once a year. Testosterone levels like can can jump
Speaker 4: just based on the hour of the day and age,
Speaker 4: and so it's like it's it's a weird thing to do.
Speaker 4: And also if you do have if you do have
Speaker 4: lower testosterone, apparently like the first move isn't always just
Speaker 4: hormone overplace therapy, which is what Pete hagg sais is offering.
Speaker 4: Like there's some doctor was like you could just go
Speaker 4: to a better earlier and drink less because apparently excessive
Speaker 4: alcohol consumption can reduce testosterone. So I don't know if
Speaker 4: I think maybe a little close to home for Pete.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think Pete maybe he was doing
Speaker 3: all of his own research. I thought what was good
Speaker 3: for his goose was good for the gander.
Speaker 4: So testosterone testing is now mandatory, uh, if you're over
Speaker 4: thirty in the military, but the flu shot is optional.
Speaker 3: Did they bring the flu shot back?
Speaker 4: It's optional? It's optional optional. Yeah, who's to say if
Speaker 4: you want the flu shot, great, If not, whatever, well,
Speaker 4: look you're getting you're getting your t screened.
Speaker 3: It's important on the flu shot because it's not like
Speaker 3: the largest flu pandemic in world history started at a
Speaker 3: military base.
Speaker 4: Wow, just look, it's a It's.
Speaker 3: Another reminder that hiring the weekend anchor from Fox News
Speaker 3: to run the military was a suboptimal choice.
Speaker 4: Gender firming care the military care.
Speaker 3: First scratch off Pete.
Speaker 4: Who would have thunk from Pete Haggs.
Speaker 3: Well, it comes for them all eventually.
Speaker 4: All right, Dan, that's all for the News when we
Speaker 4: come back. Abdul al sayad.
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Speaker 6: Hi everyone, Alex Wagner here, I just wrapped up a
Speaker 6: great conversation with Michigan Senate candidate doctor Abdul. I'll say
Speaker 6: ed a couple things I just wanted to know. We
Speaker 6: were originally going to host a debate with all three
Speaker 6: Senate candidates, but we ran into last minute scheduling issues
Speaker 6: not surprising, and then Mallory mcmorro dropped out of the race.
Speaker 6: So with the August fourth primary less than TikTok three weeks,
Speaker 6: we decided to proceed with individual conversations and interviews. We
Speaker 6: have of course, invited Abdul's opponent, Congresswoman Haley Stevens, to
Speaker 6: come on the show, and we are hoping that she
Speaker 6: will say yes once again, please come on the show,
Speaker 6: Congresswoman Haley Stevens. We'd love to have a conversation. Also,
Speaker 6: as many of you know, Abdul used to host a
Speaker 6: podcast here on Crooked and John John and Tommy are
Speaker 6: supporting him in the race and have contributed to his campaign.
Speaker 6: Dan was supporting Mallory McMorrow. Everybody had a dog in
Speaker 6: that fight, but me, I'm Switzerland. I'm neutral territory, which
Speaker 6: is why I had the pleasure of doing the interview
Speaker 6: with Abdul. And you can see I did not pull
Speaker 6: any punches, nor did he not that it was bloody.
Speaker 6: So with all of that throat clearing and housekeeping out
Speaker 6: of the way, give it a listen. Here's my conversation
Speaker 6: with Michigan Senate candidate doctor Abdul El sayed joining me
Speaker 6: now is doctor Abdul el Sayed. I started this conversation
Speaker 6: offline saying I wanted to call you doc, but I'll
Speaker 6: just call you Abdul because you've given me permission. Thanks
Speaker 6: for joining me today.
Speaker 10: Honored, honored to be here. Like, as you know, there
Speaker 10: is a live conversation about whether or not I am
Speaker 10: actually a doctor, despite having spent a lot of time
Speaker 10: in grad school earning both a PhD and m d.
Speaker 10: So like, I just preferb duel. It's unambiguous. But then
Speaker 10: even then people are probably like, but his whole name
Speaker 10: is abdrah Manso. I don't know, I know what can.
Speaker 4: We even say?
Speaker 6: I mean just casually dropping PhD and do you know
Speaker 6: doctor in there something my mother wishes that I could
Speaker 6: have done. I never will. So thanks for doing the
Speaker 6: work for both of us.
Speaker 10: Hey, you know, I for children of immigrants everywhere. Also,
Speaker 10: all that means is like.
Speaker 6: I will You're ruining it for the rest of us.
Speaker 10: Just well, no, I wasted away my twenties And here's
Speaker 10: the other side of it, Like I'm unemployed and I
Speaker 10: ask everybody I know for money, so like, look how
Speaker 10: that's going out for me?
Speaker 6: Just trying to get a job here, folks. Okay, I
Speaker 6: just want to caveat this. I want to time stamp
Speaker 6: our conversation because we leave in news Hurricane how we
Speaker 6: are recording this on Wednesday, when you had a very
Speaker 6: rare open slot in your campaign. So thank you for
Speaker 6: doing that, and just go forth with that knowledge. Everybody
Speaker 6: who's listening and watching to this, our chummy, lighthearted conversation
Speaker 6: is now going to take a pivot for the very
Speaker 6: serious because well, we live in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 10: Yeah that part, yeah, right, real talk.
Speaker 6: I want to start with Ice. On Monday, ice officers
Speaker 6: shot and killed a twenty five year old legal resident
Speaker 6: of this country, Joan Sebastian Guerrero. They shot him in
Speaker 6: front of his wife and daughter. That was about a
Speaker 6: week after killing fifty two year old father of three
Speaker 6: Lorenzo Salgado a Rajo in Houston. You are running on
Speaker 6: abolishing ice, and on one hand, the polling shows that
Speaker 6: public opinion has moved pretty dramatically on this issue. It
Speaker 6: is a strong one for Democrats. On the other hand,
Speaker 6: it is about fifty to fifty overall, and we really
Speaker 6: just haven't seen continued national outcry and protest and mobilizations.
Speaker 6: After the murders of Alex Preddi and Rene Nicole Good,
Speaker 6: Ice is still capturing two thousand people a day. What
Speaker 6: is your message to the other fifty out there who
Speaker 6: might be a little reticent slash hesitant about abolishing ice.
Speaker 10: We can have a safe and secure border, We can
Speaker 10: enforce immigration policy, but we don't have to do it
Speaker 10: while shredding our constitution to the interests of Stephen Miller
Speaker 10: and Donald Trump. And maybe it's just that I ran
Speaker 10: government agencies. There are not that many people who run
Speaker 10: for Senate who've actually worked in the bowels of government.
Speaker 10: And anybody who's ever run a government agency will tell
Speaker 10: you that once you have a culture of impunity set in,
Speaker 10: it's almost impossible to take that out. You can't reform it,
Speaker 10: you can't retrain it. And for most of our existence
Speaker 10: as a country, we've been able to enforce immigration policy
Speaker 10: without having to have ice. Ice is what' twenty five
Speaker 10: years old? Not even we don't have to have this.
Speaker 10: And let's also understand what ICE has become. Ice is
Speaker 10: not about immigration. Ice not about the southern border. Think
Speaker 10: about the places where ICE has been the loudest. We're
Speaker 10: talking about Chicago in Minneapolis. ICE is about normalizing paramilitary
Speaker 10: force in contraposition to the constitutional order itself. So I
Speaker 10: think we can win a future where we have a coherent, thoughtful,
Speaker 10: peaceful immigration approach. But that doesn't start with ICE. That
Speaker 10: starts with a pathway to citizenship and protecting our southern
Speaker 10: border and enforcing policy without tearing apart the basic constitutional
Speaker 10: rights that people are losing left and right. When they're
Speaker 10: shooting people in the streets. It should tell you that
Speaker 10: this is not about the thing they tell you it's about.
Speaker 10: It hasn't been under Donald Trump, and frankly, we should
Speaker 10: have known that after the first Trump administration. But the
Speaker 10: last point I'll meg on this Alex is that as Democrats,
Speaker 10: we have to decide that we actually want to be
Speaker 10: in the business of persuasion. And I think too often
Speaker 10: we're afraid of issues that they tell us we're going
Speaker 10: to lose on, and we don't do the work of
Speaker 10: actually having the conversation that's persuasive. They tell us the
Speaker 10: same thing about healthcare, they tell us this about immigration,
Speaker 10: They tell us this about so many issues that we
Speaker 10: could win the argument on if we had the courage
Speaker 10: to have it, and I'm just not willing to do
Speaker 10: this without having the courage to have it.
Speaker 6: Help me understand though, practically what that means, though you're
Speaker 6: talking about peaceful immigration policy, is there immigration enforcement and
Speaker 6: who does it if it's not?
Speaker 10: Yes, I mean before we ever had ICE, we had
Speaker 10: i ins. But the point here is that you can't
Speaker 10: enforce immigration policy to the breaking of all of the
Speaker 10: other laws, including our constitution itself, Like when they're trying
Speaker 10: to pursue warrantless policy where they don't actually have to
Speaker 10: get a warrant to enter your home to pursue immigration detention.
Speaker 10: What that tells you is that this is actually about lawlessness,
Speaker 10: not law enforcement. And so there's an approach here where
Speaker 10: you abolish ICE, You fire the people who've been hired
Speaker 10: without the right vetting or training. You start again with
Speaker 10: a very particular kind of force with high training, where
Speaker 10: you are enforcing at the edge of cases that really
Speaker 10: are about somebody who has come and broken our actual laws,
Speaker 10: rather than blanket in that is supposed to be loud
Speaker 10: and in your face, specifically to weaponize the idea of
Speaker 10: immigration against a political party or political movement like that
Speaker 10: really is what this is about if you think about
Speaker 10: Donald Trump, you think about Stephen Miller, you think about
Speaker 10: Jade Vance. The thing that they want to tell you
Speaker 10: is that immigrants are bad. It's the same reason that
Speaker 10: they are trying to get people to move abroad when
Speaker 10: they're applying for permanent residency in a green card. Right.
Speaker 10: This is not about immigration enforcement. This is about immigration itself.
Speaker 10: And I'm so sorry. I happen to believe that immigration
Speaker 10: has been a very very good thing for this country,
Speaker 10: not just because it's been a good thing for people
Speaker 10: like me, it's been a good thing for this country.
Speaker 10: We in this country were struggling to build public policy
Speaker 10: that gets people to want to have kids. And if
Speaker 10: you believe in capitalism, then you should know that capitalism
Speaker 10: only works because the economy grows. And part of the
Speaker 10: reason the economy grows is because we've immigrated our way
Speaker 10: out of this problem. The problem here, though, is that
Speaker 10: these same people who are trying to weaponize ice against
Speaker 10: the idea of immigration itself don't also want to pass
Speaker 10: policies like I don't know, paid family leave and free
Speaker 10: childcare and free healthcare and in investing in housing so
Speaker 10: people could actually imagine having kids, so all of that
Speaker 10: is to say we actually have to win the fight
Speaker 10: around immigration itself, that immigration is a good thing and
Speaker 10: that ice is against the Constitution itself, Like we have
Speaker 10: to go and have that conversation. We really can enforce
Speaker 10: that policy if we thought from scratch about what the
Speaker 10: immigration system is supposed to look like. But again, we're
Speaker 10: not willing to have nuanced conversations because we're so afraid
Speaker 10: of our own shadows.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, reaffirming that immigration is a good thing
Speaker 6: seems like the big work ahead of us, given how
Speaker 6: vilified immigrants have been, and then making the case for
Speaker 6: permanent residency for people who've been here illegally for sometimes,
Speaker 6: you know, decades. That's a big shift in sort of
Speaker 6: the way America writ large thinks about immigrants and immigration.
Speaker 10: But Alex, I'll tell you this, right, I've been up
Speaker 10: and down my state now, and I live in one
Speaker 10: of those states that everybody says, oh, well, you can't
Speaker 10: possibly win the state of Michigan talking about immigration. I'm sorry,
Speaker 10: but like you know, Michiganders are open minded and they're
Speaker 10: good hearted. Donald Trum sold this lie to us that
Speaker 10: the reason that the economy's not working is because an
Speaker 10: immigrant took your job. The reason that you're out of
Speaker 10: healthcare is because an immigrant took your health care. The
Speaker 10: reason you're out a home is because an immigrant's living
Speaker 10: in your home that was a whole. They're eating the cats,
Speaker 10: they're eating the dogs. Yeah, And the problem with it
Speaker 10: is that we're so busy running away that we forget
Speaker 10: that we too have mouths that we can use to
Speaker 10: be talking about what the real problem is. If you're
Speaker 10: out of a job, it's because some corporation is trying
Speaker 10: to figure out how to automate your job right now. If
Speaker 10: you're out of a home, it's because we have not
Speaker 10: invested in housing for a very long time, because the
Speaker 10: banking industry ran a muck and then collapsed the entire
Speaker 10: housing infrastructure, and then we stop the building housing. If
Speaker 10: you're out of healthcare, well, it's because a huge corporation
Speaker 10: has figured out how to buy up all the hospitals
Speaker 10: in your location and then squeeze the money out of
Speaker 10: them and then shut down the ones that are not
Speaker 10: making them money. These all have answers, and if you're
Speaker 10: not advancing the answers to the actual problems, and you
Speaker 10: have nothing to say about those actual problems. What you're
Speaker 10: basically saying is, well, his answer is the best available one,
Speaker 10: And then we wonder why we're losing. Now, why are
Speaker 10: we not talking about corporations? Why are we not talking
Speaker 10: about how unlivable it is? Well, it's because too often
Speaker 10: Democrats take money from the exact same corporations that are
Speaker 10: part of the problem. And so like, we've got to
Speaker 10: get serious about actually thinking about how we advance an
Speaker 10: argument about what's wrong and how we fix it. And
Speaker 10: when we do that, I actually think we can have
Speaker 10: winning arguments about immigration too. But you can't leave his
Speaker 10: argument sitting there without advancing an alternative argument that's not
Speaker 10: a Trump bad, Yes, of course Trump bad, Trump heinous,
Speaker 10: but like, why are you good? That really is the
Speaker 10: question we have to answer.
Speaker 6: Okay, on that same topic, areas where Democrats have it
Speaker 6: feels like the rug pulled out from under them by Republicans.
Speaker 6: I want to talk about police and law enforcement. There's
Speaker 6: a whole lot of back and forth, and without getting
Speaker 6: into the minutia, the idea of defunding the police, right,
Speaker 6: you told the Detroit News that you never ever called
Speaker 6: for defunding. CNN then uncovered old statements from I think
Speaker 6: twenty twenty one and twenty twenty twenty twenty, where you
Speaker 6: did affirmatively say we do need to defund the police,
Speaker 6: though you were clear that you didn't mean completely defund.
Speaker 6: Then you also deleted a lot of old posts and
Speaker 6: old tweets. Maybe old news, but it does beg the
Speaker 6: question what is your actual position on whether or not
Speaker 6: police departments get too much funding.
Speaker 10: So look, I've in the interim, worked in Wayne County.
Speaker 10: In that role, I worked very closely with law enforcement,
Speaker 10: and of course, when you get life experience, you get
Speaker 10: a lot more nuance about how things actually work. I'm
Speaker 10: going to venture this idea that it shouldn't really be
Speaker 10: that controversial that everybody really just wants to get home
Speaker 10: safe at night and stay safe at home. And the
Speaker 10: question we should ask is how do we design a
Speaker 10: system that does that? Right now? Our current system is
Speaker 10: anytime there's any sort of social unrest, we answer that
Speaker 10: question with somebody with a gun, and that has led
Speaker 10: to a lot of harmful circumstances, and it isn't always
Speaker 10: efficient to stopping the thing that we actually want. So
Speaker 10: what I think is that we need more investment in
Speaker 10: recruitment retention and retirement for law enforcement. We need those
Speaker 10: things why because too often the people who work in
Speaker 10: law enforcement in urban communities don't come from those communities.
Speaker 10: And that's partly because the people in those communities don't
Speaker 10: believe that they can have a good life in those jobs.
Speaker 10: And so I would rather have people from those communities
Speaker 10: who say, Hey, I'm here to keep my neighbor safe,
Speaker 10: rather than I'm policing against this whole community. But on
Speaker 10: the other side, we need a lot more investment in
Speaker 10: the things that actually keep people safe. It's not always
Speaker 10: a person with the gun. It might also be behavioral
Speaker 10: health response. It might be preventing violence through community violence
Speaker 10: intervention programs, And I think we need those things too.
Speaker 10: And then there's the question of the poverty that tends
Speaker 10: to drive all of it. How are we investing in
Speaker 10: public services, public schools, public wellness like those are things
Speaker 10: that we need too. So rather than start with this
Speaker 10: one question about defund or not defund and play into
Speaker 10: again the same un nuanced, cynical approach to politics that
Speaker 10: Republicans want to play, how about we talk about what
Speaker 10: we want to build. So look, I get why, now
Speaker 10: everybody's sort of dragging this out. But I've tried to
Speaker 10: be nuanced about what I mean even when I use
Speaker 10: that word. But I do think it's important for us
Speaker 10: again to go and win the argument. And I'll tell you,
Speaker 10: I've been up and down the state. You go to
Speaker 10: communities in the rural parts of my state and you
Speaker 10: say those things, most heads are like, yeah, actually, no,
Speaker 10: that's kind of what we want. So let's do that.
Speaker 6: You know, in the context of a podcast interview, right
Speaker 6: there's space and time and bandwidth to talk about the nuances.
Speaker 6: But unfortunately, politics right now is a caricature of itself
Speaker 6: but also makes a caricature out of candidates. And the
Speaker 6: reality is that Donald Trump won your state by I
Speaker 6: believe a point and a half at the same time
Speaker 6: that Alyssa Slockin won her seat by about a third
Speaker 6: of a point. And I sort of wonder, you know,
Speaker 6: extrapolating from your complex answers to issues that I think
Speaker 6: really trigger the right and are easily packaged to stoke
Speaker 6: among swing voters and independence. Are you of the mindset
Speaker 6: that you need to win over people who voted for
Speaker 6: Trump and more broadly, folks in the middle, or for you,
Speaker 6: is this a turnout election.
Speaker 10: I think there's a third way here. I hate using
Speaker 10: that word.
Speaker 6: Yeah, be careful, dude, you're running age.
Speaker 10: Let's step back for a second, right. I want us
Speaker 10: to think about what Donald Trump teaches us, if there's
Speaker 10: anything to learn from his experience. You're right, politics turns
Speaker 10: people into a character. Donald Trump, in theory, should be
Speaker 10: the easiest person to caricature, and yet he won elections.
Speaker 10: But you know what he did. He went everywhere and
Speaker 10: said the same things everywhere. And Democrats play this defensive
Speaker 10: style of politics. We're so concerned about what they're going
Speaker 10: to say about us that we forget the fact that
Speaker 10: we two have mouths and voices and ideas that we
Speaker 10: could be advancing anywhere and everywhere. And I think if
Speaker 10: we do those things, and we're faster about defining ourselves
Speaker 10: and defining others, that we can win both the kinds
Speaker 10: of voters who've vod for people like Donald Trump and
Speaker 10: also those folks who have sat out for a very
Speaker 10: long time. And the reason I believe that is because
Speaker 10: you know, our internal polling shows me up pretty substantially,
Speaker 10: despite the fact that outside spending has hit fifty million
Speaker 10: dollars in my race. Fifty million dollars. Now, if it
Speaker 10: was all about what people are going to say about
Speaker 10: you or what they're going to say about your opponent,
Speaker 10: I shouldn't have a prayer in hell in this race.
Speaker 10: And yet what we've done is politics the old fashioned way.
Speaker 10: I go everywhere, I talk to everyone. I do not
Speaker 10: shy away from booking these conversations or any conversation, because
Speaker 10: I know what I believe and I'm willing to talk
Speaker 10: about it. And when people actually you give them the
Speaker 10: opportunity to listen in nuanced people are really smart. And
Speaker 10: so I just reject the idea that I'm going to
Speaker 10: be turned into a character. And the way that I
Speaker 10: reject it is to make sure that you have heard
Speaker 10: me and that I've put myself anywhere, whether that's a
Speaker 10: town hall in your local community, or on the radio,
Speaker 10: or on a TV spot, or campaign with us on
Speaker 10: Piker God Forbid, or listen and talking to you here
Speaker 10: on Potsave America. And the last thing I'll tell you
Speaker 10: is this, right, So I'm proving out that this tactic
Speaker 10: can work, just like Donald Trump did ironically, but also
Speaker 10: the last thing I'll tell you is this the real
Speaker 10: divide in our politics is not around some left right
Speaker 10: spectrum like are you a Democrat or a Republican or
Speaker 10: right wing or left wing or blue or red? And
Speaker 10: that there are these people in the middle who walk
Speaker 10: around wondering where they sit on a left right spectrum.
Speaker 10: Most of the time, people are like, yo, I can'tform
Speaker 10: my healthcare and steak is so goddamn expensive, and I'm
Speaker 10: really really worried about the quality of my kids' school.
Speaker 10: What are you going to do about that? And so
Speaker 10: I don't play the game where I hw to a
Speaker 10: particular set of talking points. I try to talk out
Speaker 10: what I think we need to do and be completely honest,
Speaker 10: and I stand up around these you know, third rails
Speaker 10: you're not allowed to touch in politics. You know every
Speaker 10: time we haven't got into yet. I'm sure it's on
Speaker 10: your question set. But like Israel, I'm like, look, the
Speaker 10: question about Israel isn't about the theoretical right to exist
Speaker 10: of a country that exists. The question about Israel is
Speaker 10: do they have a right to our tax dollars? Because
Speaker 10: I live in a community here in Michigan where there
Speaker 10: are places not too far from where I live where
Speaker 10: the meatia an income is fourteen thousand dollars a year,
Speaker 10: and those people send their kids to schools that haven't
Speaker 10: changed for fifty years. They can't afford basic infrastructure. Like
Speaker 10: it's like you're traveling on gravel roads in the middle
Speaker 10: of a city, and then you want to tell me
Speaker 10: that the best use of my tax dollars is send
Speaker 10: them somewhere else. And you know when you say that
Speaker 10: and then people hit you on it. People are just like, yeah,
Speaker 10: I actually agree with what he's saying. And I'm not
Speaker 10: so interested in the theoretical question about the right of
Speaker 10: a country to exist. I'm wondering what you're going to
Speaker 10: do with my tax dollars and why you're sending them
Speaker 10: there when I could be using them here.
Speaker 6: With all due respect, I mean, the question of whether
Speaker 6: Israel should exist or not is essential when you're answering
Speaker 6: whether a US tax dollar should go towards protecting that
Speaker 6: right to exist. And it sort of raised let me
Speaker 6: just ask you the question, because I mean, I think
Speaker 6: you've made it a zero sum game between like funding
Speaker 6: for for example, schools and aid to Israel. The US
Speaker 6: budget is large, and there's a question about, you know,
Speaker 6: to what degree Congress should prioritize spending on Israel, which
Speaker 6: gets at the central question. For I think a lot
Speaker 6: of Jews in this country and a lot of Jews
Speaker 6: in your state, is you know, the Jewish identity and
Speaker 6: the Jewish statehood is essential to them? And they may
Speaker 6: think that war is a genocide in Gaza, and they
Speaker 6: may completely disagree with Bibi net Nahu, but their Jewish
Speaker 6: identity is as essential to them as their American identity.
Speaker 6: So I wonder, when you are thinking about those people
Speaker 6: and they may support you, how do you help them
Speaker 6: understand where Israel exists on your list of priorities. Is
Speaker 6: it immoral to support Israel at this point or is
Speaker 6: there some other there? Is there some other avenue.
Speaker 10: Look, I grew up. I was really grateful to grow
Speaker 10: up in a community with a large Jewish community, forty Jewish.
Speaker 10: I had the privilege of being welcomed to schul and
Speaker 10: being welcomed to Satyr and going to Bar and botmtzvahs.
Speaker 10: Growing up, I learned a lot about the Jewish faith.
Speaker 10: I learned so much about the Jewish contribution to American
Speaker 10: culture in society, and I will do everything I can
Speaker 10: to protect Jewish Americans in this country from anti Semitism.
Speaker 10: I also in as much as I love the Jewish
Speaker 10: people and Jewish culture, I love and revere Palestinians and
Speaker 10: Palestinian culture, And most importantly, I love and revere the
Speaker 10: people I am running to serve here in Michigan. So
Speaker 10: the idea that Michigan tax dollars should be sent to
Speaker 10: a foreign government that wants to foreclose on Palestinian rights
Speaker 10: to peace, dignity, and self determination, which I hold equal
Speaker 10: to Jewish rights to peace Ignitian self determination. But the
Speaker 10: idea that aren't money is being sent to a government
Speaker 10: that wants to foreclose on one community's right to self
Speaker 10: determination and being misused away from solving the needs of
Speaker 10: the people I'm actually serving is a pretty crazy thing.
Speaker 10: And in setting up this question about Israel's right to exist,
Speaker 10: you rightly point to the idea of whether or not
Speaker 10: there is American intervention that ought to be spent to
Speaker 10: enforce that. And I think the vast majority of Americans
Speaker 10: would say, whatever you think about Israel's right to exist,
Speaker 10: our tax dollars should not be used for the interests
Speaker 10: of a foreign government when they need to be used
Speaker 10: for the interests of the people living in our community
Speaker 10: on its own. So I believe in equal rights to peace, dignity,
Speaker 10: and self determination for Palestinians and Jewish Israelis alike. But
Speaker 10: I also understand that in an era where people ask you,
Speaker 10: how are you going to pay for that when you
Speaker 10: want to give people health care, or how you're going
Speaker 10: to pay for that when you want to give people
Speaker 10: good schools, it's pretty crazy to be sending our money
Speaker 10: over there when it could be used over here.
Speaker 6: So no funding to ensure the survival or future of
Speaker 6: the Jewish States.
Speaker 10: Well, I turn that background on you, Alex and say,
Speaker 10: why is it our responsibility to ensure that?
Speaker 6: I'm just asking because they think no, I mean, why
Speaker 6: why is it standing?
Speaker 10: But hear me out hear me out here, mat why
Speaker 10: is that the essential frame from which we work? Like
Speaker 10: why is it assumed that the United States ought to
Speaker 10: be in the business of backstopping a foreign government? Like
Speaker 10: I'm just saying, I don't want ill will for Jewish
Speaker 10: Israeli people at all, I really don't. I just want
Speaker 10: equal rights to peace, dignity, yourself determination for all people.
Speaker 10: But the notion that somehow our tax dollars ought to
Speaker 10: secure the interests of a foreign government, Like this is
Speaker 10: the United States, and our own kids don't have good schools,
Speaker 10: and you're telling me that should be a primary concern
Speaker 10: over there. Like, imagine we said the same thing about
Speaker 10: any other country, any other one like my family's from Egypt, Okay,
Speaker 10: Like would it be crazy if somebody was asking me, like, hey,
Speaker 10: do you think Egypt has the right to exist? People
Speaker 10: like Egypt exists. I'm like, well, if somebody wanted to
Speaker 10: change the nature of Egypt, do you think the United
Speaker 10: States should be spending all of its money to make
Speaker 10: sure or any of its money to make sure that
Speaker 10: that happens? And people like I don't know what that
Speaker 10: seems like a different country's issue, but like I'm just
Speaker 10: saying that, Like you can both say that Israel exists,
Speaker 10: but it doesn't have a right to my tax dollars.
Speaker 10: And it is not our responsibility as American taxpayers to
Speaker 10: take money away from kids who don't have good schools
Speaker 10: and give it to a country to buy bombs and
Speaker 10: tanks like the idea that are convers station even even
Speaker 10: questions that is itself a big question we should be asking,
Speaker 10: like why is this the frame of the debate.
Speaker 6: I think APAC affiliated super PACs have spent about fifteen
Speaker 6: million dollars so far thirty defeat you thirty. Okay, I'm wrong, sorry,
Speaker 6: updated stats. And your opponent, Hailey Stevens, is their preferred candidate.
Speaker 6: You've called her a sort of trojan horse for the
Speaker 6: pro Israel agenda. You've accused her of failing the moral
Speaker 6: Warshock test by not calling what's happening in Gaza, the atrocities,
Speaker 6: a genocide. Here's my question. There's only one Democrat that's
Speaker 6: going to win this. If she wins, our unit campaign
Speaker 6: for her.
Speaker 10: I'm going to make sure that Mike Rodgers never sees
Speaker 10: the inside of the US Senate. But like, here is
Speaker 10: that's the one question. Here's that's the important question. I'm
Speaker 10: going to campaign against Mike Rogers for sure. And look,
Speaker 10: I've already said that, like I'm committed to making sure
Speaker 10: Democrats win in Republicans lose.
Speaker 6: Do you want her campaigning for you if you're the nominee.
Speaker 10: But here's the bigger question. I just want I want
Speaker 10: to go back to this point that you made, because
Speaker 10: it's it's just a really really important one. You rightly
Speaker 10: pointed to the reason why the frame of the debate
Speaker 10: is always about the theoretical right to exist of a
Speaker 10: country and where we put our money, because if you
Speaker 10: say what I just said, which I think the vast
Speaker 10: majority of Americans, I'd be like, yeah, that's just conventional
Speaker 10: wisdom that we should be more worried about people in
Speaker 10: our own country than the existence of another country. If
Speaker 10: you say what I said, there is one super pac
Speaker 10: that's going to spend tens of millions of dollars to
Speaker 10: annihilate your political existence. I mean, that's why most politicians
Speaker 10: sit in this political consensus that says that you cannot
Speaker 10: touch the third rail of Israel. Meanwhile, people in their
Speaker 10: own communities are like, why not when my own kid
Speaker 10: goes to a school that looks like it did fifty
Speaker 10: years ago? And so that exactly is it, is that
Speaker 10: you have a particular superPAC that has become the biggest
Speaker 10: spender in our whole race thirty million dollars To try
Speaker 10: to put my head on a pike, to show every
Speaker 10: Democrat that thou shalt not say the conventional wisdom that
Speaker 10: may maybe the interest of kids in our own country
Speaker 10: matters more than whether or not we think about the
Speaker 10: theoretical right to exist of another country.
Speaker 6: Do you feel like there's some opportunity to work with
Speaker 6: Trump on this? I know, I just bear before you respond.
Speaker 6: Let me just remind people. I mean, it's Donald Trump, right, but.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 6: This is someone who is increasingly at odds with Prime
Speaker 6: Minister Netanyah, who, even though he also bear hugs him
Speaker 6: from time to time and has effectively fought a war
Speaker 6: with him for him. But they now have divergent interests
Speaker 6: in terms of the war and Iran. And I'm old
Speaker 6: enough to remember when Donald Trump called bb nets and yah,
Speaker 6: who fucking crazy?
Speaker 10: That's a quote I was like four weeks ago exactly.
Speaker 6: So is there I mean, is there an opportunity for
Speaker 6: Democrats to try and take advantage of that opportunity and
Speaker 6: move the needle using Trump on Israel?
Speaker 10: So I'll tell you this, I'm less concerned about Trump
Speaker 10: in himself and more concerned about voters in Michigan who
Speaker 10: Trump lied to. And I can't tell you the number
Speaker 10: of people who've come up to me at town halls
Speaker 10: and been like, I've voted for Trump three times and
Speaker 10: I'm voting for you. I'd be like why, And the
Speaker 10: answer is usually two things. Number one, you really want
Speaker 10: me to have health care. I really want you to
Speaker 10: have health care. Number Two, it's you really want to
Speaker 10: keep my money here. So we're running a pretty simple campaign.
Speaker 10: Money out of politics, money in your pocket, Medicare for all.
Speaker 10: And the thing about democracy is that if you can
Speaker 10: win the debate, you can win voters over, you can
Speaker 10: win the conversation, you can start to change public policy.
Speaker 10: So look, I think Donald Trump has been burnt by
Speaker 10: the Israeli government and he's feeling the burn right now.
Speaker 10: He got duped into fighting a war that Donald Frankly
Speaker 10: bb and Antonia, who has been trying to find an
Speaker 10: idiot big enough to fight for the better part of
Speaker 10: forty years, he finally found the dumbas who would do it.
Speaker 10: And now Trump's in the situation where he's like, damn,
Speaker 10: I'm trapped all for what? So Israel could try to
Speaker 10: annex southern Lebanon. You know who wins out of this war?
Speaker 10: Certainly not the American public, not even Donald Trump. I
Speaker 10: mean maybe the Iranian Regene who now figured out how
Speaker 10: to control the flow of the world's energy supply, and
Speaker 10: certainly be b Natanya, who who is annihilated southern Lebanon.
Speaker 10: So I think there's an opportunity here to prove out
Speaker 10: that people in this country are sick and tired of
Speaker 10: being told what we can do from a foreign policy
Speaker 10: standpoint by a foreign government, and to point to the
Speaker 10: obvious policy failure that has us paying five dollars gas
Speaker 10: here in Michigan, to get to a point in our
Speaker 10: politics that actually says, look, maybe this is not the
Speaker 10: right approach here, and maybe we could actually have a
Speaker 10: politics for our people, by our people, and in the
Speaker 10: interest of our people.
Speaker 6: Right, But you are not running to be, you know,
Speaker 6: the mayor, right, You're not running to be an executive.
Speaker 6: You are running to be in the Senate, which is
Speaker 6: an increasingly dysfunctional body where the term is six years,
Speaker 6: and if you have the majority, it's going to be
Speaker 6: a slim one and you're going to have to work
Speaker 6: with people like Mary Pultola and Roy Cooper who were
Speaker 6: backed by Chuck Schumer and are much more in the
Speaker 6: centristwing of democratic politics.
Speaker 4: How do you think about.
Speaker 6: Making common cause with them? If it's you know, if
Speaker 6: it's a new democratic majority, how are you going to
Speaker 6: work with the people that come from a pretty different
Speaker 6: ideology than you.
Speaker 10: Yeah, you know. I think part of the reason there's
Speaker 10: so much attention being paid to this particular race is
Speaker 10: because Michigan is unique. Not only is it the greatest
Speaker 10: state in the country, hands down, way better than Ohio,
Speaker 10: who produced Ramaswami and jd Vance Like bad record for Ohio.
Speaker 10: God bless you, Shared Brown, But you're doing the Lord's.
Speaker 6: Work, Okay, Ohio Diggs. I'm ill. I am not involved
Speaker 6: in this. I just want to say, for everybody in
Speaker 6: Ohio that's listening, that's all on Doc.
Speaker 10: It's all on me. I'll take it like I can't
Speaker 10: stand Ohio. But I'll tell you. I'll tell you this.
Speaker 10: The reason people are paying attention is because a lot
Speaker 10: of folks have often said that a politics that really
Speaker 10: centers in on the needs of everyday people can't win
Speaker 10: outside of you know, these these these these democratic bastions
Speaker 10: like New York. And the point that I'm often making
Speaker 10: to folks is that people need the same things wherever
Speaker 10: you are in this country, and the politics that delivers
Speaker 10: on getting money out so that we can finally put
Speaker 10: money back in people's pockets by like standing with unions
Speaker 10: and keeping our money here and taxing billionaires their wealth
Speaker 10: and standing up to big corporate monopolies and aligopolies. That that
Speaker 10: kind of politics it can win anywhere. And so in
Speaker 10: winning the race itself, we are shifting the conversation about
Speaker 10: the kind of politics we can have nationwide. And so, look,
Speaker 10: I'm looking forward to working with folks like Roy Cooper
Speaker 10: and Mary Peltola and building strong relationships, But I also
Speaker 10: think that they operate from a standpoint based on a
Speaker 10: flawed set of assumptions that I'm trying to upend in
Speaker 10: this I know that we can deliver for Michiganders if
Speaker 10: we actually get corporations out of our politics and start
Speaker 10: standing with the people. I know that Medicare for all
Speaker 10: is broadly popular if you're willing to reject the influence
Speaker 10: of big pharma and big insurance corporations in trying to
Speaker 10: dominate what we can possibly talk about. I know that
Speaker 10: keeping money here rather than supporting a foreign government over
Speaker 10: there is broadly popular, and I want to prove it out.
Speaker 10: And when we do in this race, I want to
Speaker 10: be able to have conversations with folks and think, hey,
Speaker 10: look we did this in Michigan. I think you can
Speaker 10: do it too, And I think we can actually build
Speaker 10: a politics that actually get stuff done because here's the
Speaker 10: problem with it. Look at my own race, dt our
Speaker 10: Local Utility, Blue Cross, Boushield are local Health, Insuran, Big Tech, APAK.
Speaker 10: They're funding both my Democratic opponent and my Republican one.
Speaker 10: So if either of them win, guess who wins. Big
Speaker 10: Tech wins, Blue Cross, Boushield wins, APAC wins, dt E wins.
Speaker 10: And we're all out here being like, well, oh, the
Speaker 10: body is so dysfunctional. We never get stuff done well
Speaker 10: because we never really have a contrast that's about getting
Speaker 10: stuff done because guess what, either way, the corporate lobbyist
Speaker 10: is showing up with the same bill and then and
Speaker 10: then they tell you, oh, look you have a bipartisan
Speaker 10: opportunity to get legislation done, and bipartisan because corporations have
Speaker 10: bought off both parties, and then you patch yourself on
Speaker 10: the back for being pipartisan to do the thing that
Speaker 10: helps the corporation and not the people you got elected
Speaker 10: to serve. And I think we have an opportunity here
Speaker 10: to actually win the debate and then actually start doing
Speaker 10: things that deliver for people because none of us got
Speaker 10: into this work like this is a shit job. I
Speaker 10: just want to be clear, It's just a shit way
Speaker 10: to live your life. None of us got into this
Speaker 10: because you know, you don't want to deliver for people.
Speaker 10: And the hardest part for me is like I carry
Speaker 10: people's stories with me. I mean, I trained as a
Speaker 10: doctor and I learned how to listen to people in pain.
Speaker 10: But people bring you their stories hoping that you can help.
Speaker 10: And I know, I know, I know, I know for
Speaker 10: every single person in public service, like you're doing this
Speaker 10: because you really want to help those people, but the
Speaker 10: system has rigged it so it's almost impossible to do
Speaker 10: what if we actually took it on in one So
Speaker 10: that's a conversation I'm hoping to have with the ninety
Speaker 10: nine other senators in the country. I think some of
Speaker 10: them will go better than others, but I think we
Speaker 10: can prove out that we can actually win on our
Speaker 10: morals if we can do that here in Michigan. Now
Speaker 10: here's the hard part. They're spending a shit ton of money,
Speaker 10: right to stop. It's fifty million dollars already come in
Speaker 10: fifty million, well being out spent eight to one. And
Speaker 10: yet you know we're still leading the conversation. So it's
Speaker 10: got to be people coming together around a politics that
Speaker 10: is of the people, by the people, and for the
Speaker 10: people standing up to the power of the corporations who
Speaker 10: are keeping us from having the things that we need
Speaker 10: and deserve.
Speaker 6: I have two quick questions.
Speaker 10: You can make a long questions if you want.
Speaker 6: Okay, you talk about taking power, you talk about democratic control.
Speaker 6: The president this week is focused on election interference, not
Speaker 6: his own, which is measurable, but on alleged intelection election interference.
Speaker 6: All of this is a bid to distort, if not steal,
Speaker 6: the results of the twenty twenty six midterms. Are you
Speaker 6: worried about a peaceful transfer of power? Is there something
Speaker 6: Democrats should be doing that they're not doing if in fact,
Speaker 6: they win the both houses one or both houses of Congress?
Speaker 6: Are you worried about a peaceful transfer of power? And
Speaker 6: is there something Democrats should be doing that they're not doing?
Speaker 10: I am, I'm really worried about it. Donald Trump understands
Speaker 10: the stakes of this, and he basically told the Republicans
Speaker 10: as much. He said, if they win, I'm going to
Speaker 10: be impeached. And you know, there is nothing about that
Speaker 10: man that is about the dignity of his office. It
Speaker 10: is entirely about self preservation and self enrichment, and that's
Speaker 10: how he's used the office. Now, he understands that our
Speaker 10: winning is the single biggest threat, and he's acting accordingly. Now,
Speaker 10: the problem that we so often have is that we
Speaker 10: don't actually meet the demand with the right level of urgency.
Speaker 10: So I think it's incumbent on all of us to
Speaker 10: be narrating exactly what's happening. Look, here's what he's doing.
Speaker 10: Here's why he's mobilizing ice, here's where they're buying detention facilities.
Speaker 10: Here's what he said he wants to do. Here's where
Speaker 10: he's sending election interferers, and here's what they say they're
Speaker 10: going to do. We need to be very very clear
Speaker 10: about that, and then we need to mobilize people past it.
Speaker 10: The way to make the elections unriggable is to overwhelm
Speaker 10: them with the power of a message that gets people
Speaker 10: out to actually win, Like, we can't keep winning these
Speaker 10: razor thin elections anymore when they want to steal them,
Speaker 10: because razor thin elections are way easier to steal. And
Speaker 10: so you know, people talk about like, are you gonna
Speaker 10: win the middle or are you going to bring people out.
Speaker 10: It's like, we don't have a choice but to do both.
Speaker 10: We've got to win people who are disaffected by him,
Speaker 10: and we've got to win the people who've been disaffected
Speaker 10: by the political process itself. We've got to win in
Speaker 10: massive waves. That is the way we protect our democracy.
Speaker 10: That is the way we take back power, hold him accountable,
Speaker 10: and finally finally get the kind of democratic process back
Speaker 10: that allows people's actual will to reflect in government.
Speaker 6: When you talk about people's will being reflected in government,
Speaker 6: I would assume that means also having people that represent
Speaker 6: different generations of people, different generations of Americans. There's been
Speaker 6: a lot of criticism about the gerontocracy, uh, the the
Speaker 6: aged seniority in democratic and Republican ranks, but especially in Republicans. Well,
Speaker 6: I won't even say especially in democratic and Republican ranks.
Speaker 6: Do you think Mitch McConnell is alive?
Speaker 4: I mean, do you think he owes the public?
Speaker 10: Do you think question that I don't have the data
Speaker 10: to be able to answer.
Speaker 6: Do you think we do you think he owes voters
Speaker 6: of video? Do you think the photo of and.
Speaker 10: I'll just say that photo is unconvincing. But but let's
Speaker 10: step back, Like the idea that politicians should die in
Speaker 10: office is crazy, and you know, let's let's not be
Speaker 10: the pot calling the kettle black like we had our
Speaker 10: whole Diane Feinstein situation too. I just think that it's
Speaker 10: it's important.
Speaker 6: To have Well, I think people would say Joe Biden
Speaker 6: is the case number one of someone perhaps being too.
Speaker 10: Old for that. But but I mean, we just just
Speaker 10: this week, we're dealing with one person who passed away
Speaker 10: and another who like, we don't know if you passed away,
Speaker 10: And so I just think that, like we do need
Speaker 10: to reinvigorate our politics. I think that that's going to
Speaker 10: naturally happen with time. But I also think that part
Speaker 10: of the problem right now is that the way that
Speaker 10: we do politics makes it so that it is too
Speaker 10: easy to accumulate and hold power once you've already gotten it.
Speaker 10: And part of that is a filibuster, part of that
Speaker 10: is campaign finance law. Part of that is the role
Speaker 10: that's played by like television and media. Like, I just
Speaker 10: think we're not actually having a robust debate about who
Speaker 10: we are and who we want to be. That reflects
Speaker 10: a whole half of the voters. And so part of
Speaker 10: what we've tried to do in our campaign is rather
Speaker 10: than you know, talk down to young people. I'm forty one,
Speaker 10: so I don't even know what that means, like I'm
Speaker 10: particularly young you, but but Alex, I'm the oldest have
Speaker 10: ever been. So all of all of that is to
Speaker 10: say that, like, part of the way that you engage
Speaker 10: young people, to bring them back to the process is
Speaker 10: to actually ask them what they want for the future
Speaker 10: that they have the highest taken, and to center them
Speaker 10: in the campaign and to make policy around what it
Speaker 10: is that they say they want. So when we focus
Speaker 10: in on affordability of housing, when we focus in on education, affordability,
Speaker 10: when we focus in on AI, this is about reflecting
Speaker 10: the need and the urgent fears of young people in
Speaker 10: our society who are saying, look, I just took a
Speaker 10: sixty thousand plus dollar loan for the opportunity to have
Speaker 10: a job that an AI looks like it's about to take.
Speaker 10: What the fuck do I do? And if we don't
Speaker 10: have an answer for them, then we're not serious about governing.
Speaker 10: It's interesting. I was talking to to some folks and
Speaker 10: they're like, well, you know, this AI thing. I think
Speaker 10: it's overblown. I'm like, not if you're under thirty. And
Speaker 10: this is the first era in which you have the
Speaker 10: people who are who are the most afraid of a
Speaker 10: new technology are the youngest people. Most of the time,
Speaker 10: the people who are the earliest adopters and who like
Speaker 10: it the most are young. But like it's because young
Speaker 10: people both use AI and understand the danger of AI.
Speaker 10: And so you know, we've put AI front and center.
Speaker 10: We have an AI for Democracy plan, which is about
Speaker 10: putting democracy ahead of AI and making sure that at
Speaker 10: least fifty percent of the border representation of every AI
Speaker 10: hyperscaler is democratically selected. And we're doing that because I
Speaker 10: take seriously that young people are going to have to
Speaker 10: live in the world that we legislate in, and that
Speaker 10: means centering them in these campaigns. And I think once
Speaker 10: we do that and young people make a habit of it,
Speaker 10: I think we're going to start to see a lot
Speaker 10: more turnover.
Speaker 6: Will there be a day when the forty one year
Speaker 6: old actually feels old in the US Senate TBD on
Speaker 6: that one.
Speaker 10: I'll be forty two by that point.
Speaker 7: But I'll let you know, Okay, keep us posted doc.
Speaker 10: I will, I will doctor Abdul.
Speaker 6: I'll say ed, it is a pleasure speaking with you.
Speaker 6: Thank you for entertaining my numerous questions. We will be
Speaker 6: following the race very very very carefully. Good luck out there.
Speaker 10: Thank you, and look if for folks who want to
Speaker 10: get involved, go to abdulforsenate dot com. I hope you'll
Speaker 10: tip us off five bucks or ten bucks or we're filmmaking.
Speaker 10: This is an opportunity. It's literally the money versus the
Speaker 10: many in this race, so I hope that folks will listening,
Speaker 10: will get involved. Alex, thank you for a really thoughtful conversation.
Speaker 10: I'm really grateful for it and looking forward to the
Speaker 10: next one.
Speaker 6: Okay, definitely.
Speaker 4: That's our show for today. Thanks to Abdul for coming on.
Speaker 4: Dan will be back in the feed on Sunday with
Speaker 4: a conversation with Run for Something's Amanda Littman. Dan, what'd
Speaker 4: you guys talk about?
Speaker 3: Amanda and I had a great conversation about what's happening
Speaker 3: to Democratic Party right now, where the party can go
Speaker 3: from here, and the really inspiring story she's hearing from
Speaker 3: the one hundred thousand people who've signed up to run
Speaker 3: for office since Trump was elected in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4: If you want to be inspired, you just talked to
Speaker 4: Amanda Littman works every time. All right, everyone, have a
Speaker 4: good weekend.
Speaker 3: Bye everyone.
Speaker 4: Positive America is a crooked media production. Our show is
Speaker 4: produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Ruben, McKenna Roberts, and Faris Safari,
Speaker 4: with Ree Jerlin, Elijah Cone and Adrian Hill. Our team
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Speaker 4: David Toles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Saying. Our
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