WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.120 With the Lucky Land slots, you can get lucky just 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:04.120 about anywhere. 3 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:07.799 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 4 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:09.720 weather's five. But we're just gonna circle up here a 5 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:13.080 while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. It's 6 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:15.679 just these cash prizes add up quick, so I suggest 7 00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:17.719 you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and 8 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:18.879 start getting lucky. 9 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:22.559 Play for free at Lucky landslips dot com. Are you 10 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:26.320 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 11 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:30.320 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 12 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.039 It is Ryan here, and I have a question for you. 13 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:35.200 What do you do when you win? 14 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:35.640 Like? 15 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:38.880 Are you at fist pumper, a wooo, a handclapp or 16 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:40.679 a high fiver? I kind of like the high five. 17 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:42.479 But if you want to hone in on those winning moves, 18 00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:45.799 check out Chumbuck Casino. At chumbacasino dot com, choose some 19 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:48.479 hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to 20 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:52.320 redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly, 21 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.280 plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait. Start having the 22 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:58.039 most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot com. 23 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:00.600 Noe's necessary void over every boy Law terms of Conditions 24 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:01.840 eighteen plus h. 25 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:05.719 Lucky Land Casino, asking people, what's the weirdest place you've 26 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:06.439 gotten lucky? 27 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:09.519 Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah, in 28 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:12.799 my dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have 29 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:13.239 to say? 30 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:13.959 Yes? You do? 31 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:16.560 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? 32 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:17.200 Really? 33 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:17.599 Yes? 34 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:20.280 Excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 35 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:21.480 I never win? 36 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:23.000 And tell well, there you have it. 37 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:25.879 You could get lucky anywhere playing at Lucky landsloughts dot 38 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:27.519 com play for free right now? 39 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:28.599 Are you feeling lucky? 40 00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:28.879 Nope? 41 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:30.920 Just necessary boid reverd my long eighteen plus terms and 42 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:32.239 conditions plus you wants every details. 43 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:45.120 Maybe you are now listening to True Murder The most 44 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:48.560 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 45 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:49.640 have written about them. 46 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:56.799 Gacy Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker BTK Every week another 47 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:00.359 fascinating author talking about the most shocking and some as 48 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:04.319 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host 49 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:19.400 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good evening from the author 50 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:23.560 of Vampire, The Richard Chase Murders and The Bunde Murders 51 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:27.639 comes an excursion into the truly weird and the bizarre, 52 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:32.080 the medieval esque murder in a small town museum, to 53 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:35.719 the jilted boyfriend who decided that his former girlfriend needed 54 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.719 to die on her twenty first birthday. And then there's 55 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:41.240 the demented son who returns home to live with his 56 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:44.599 mother and stepfather and one night in their beautiful mansion 57 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:50.039 sitting atop a high bluff overlooking the Ohio River, slaughters them. 58 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.560 The book that we are featuring this evening is Kentucky Bloodbath, 59 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:59.039 Ten bizarre tales of murder from the Bluegrass State, with 60 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:03.560 my special guest, journalist and author Kevin Sullivan. Welcome back 61 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:05.719 to the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview. 62 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:06.919 Kevin Sullomon. 63 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:09.919 Well, thank you, Dan, It's always good to be on 64 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:10.400 your show. 65 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:14.560 It's always a pleasure to speak with you again, Kevin, 66 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:20.439 and congratulations on your latest truly bizarre collection here from Kentucky. 67 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:25.599 So just tell us, I guess we've just had you 68 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:29.719 on recently with another collection from Kentucky. But tell us 69 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:32.879 just basically, what was your criteria this time out to 70 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:35.639 be able to select the stories that the ten stories 71 00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:37.639 that are in Kentucky Bloodbath. 72 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:41.879 All, yes, all of these stories go back to the 73 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.639 time when I was for a number of years when 74 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:52.280 I was doing research into strange Kentucky murders, and I 75 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:58.479 was going through case files and court records, and you 76 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:01.240 run into a lot of stuff. You do that obviously, 77 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:05.199 but I was looking for some of the more bizarre cases, 78 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:10.840 strange cases, cases that had twists to them, just things 79 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:13.319 that would just jump out of you from the page 80 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:15.039 and at the case file. 81 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:17.000 And the other. 82 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:18.839 Book that we talked about a number of months ago 83 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:22.720 was Death of a Cheerleader and that had six different 84 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:25.759 bizarre cases in it, and so this is a continuation 85 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:32.800 of that, and and these cases were some of them, 86 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:35.480 as I had mentioned before with the other book, would 87 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:38.079 have kind of been lost to history had I not 88 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.160 gone in there and pulled these things out. Some some 89 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:45.560 would would be well known, and that I'm sure reporters 90 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:50.879 would periodically, you know, right about them, certain cases like 91 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:54.519 the iceman having to do with with with Todd Ice. 92 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:58.759 But most of the cases were very big and had 93 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:03.279 an effect on the area where these happened at the time. 94 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:06.560 But over the years, these things had a tendency to 95 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:09.600 kind of, you know, drift away, and then of course 96 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:13.040 they end up in archives and most people forget about them, 97 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.079 and so I was always glad to find something interesting, 98 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:20.600 you know, that I could pull out and put to 99 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:21.959 the page. 100 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:26.680 Well, let's set the stage right now for with Carol 101 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:30.319 Francis Mudd. And she's twenty two years old and we're talking. 102 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.519 She's working at the Stonecastle Museum in a small place 103 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:38.399 called Bardstown, Kentucky. This is November nineteen eighty two. In 104 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:42.480 this museum they have toy soldiers and antique weapons. And 105 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:48.240 you've introduced the character Anthony Russell Gollan. Yeah, he's twenty 106 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:52.839 years old. So you take us right to where the mailman, 107 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:58.240 the postman Charles Meredith is walking by and Anthony Russell Gowan. 108 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.600 So set the stage for us for death by Sword. Yes, 109 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:10.000 Gollan was a strange individual. He was obsessed with edge 110 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:16.879 edged weapons, especially swords. And what he did uh that 111 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:21.319 morning and the authorities don't know why he did it, 112 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:25.560 but he was the first person to come into the 113 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:29.240 museum in Bardstown. And like you say, they had they 114 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:33.959 had these these displays of toy soldiers and battlefields, but 115 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:38.480 they also had displays of like, uh, knights and armor 116 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:43.240 and like they had a broad sword, and they had 117 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:47.160 various displays. So for a small town like Bardstown, which 118 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:50.319 is famous for my old Kentucky home. 119 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:55.600 Uh, it was. It was a nice place. The Stonecastle Museum. 120 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:59.680 He he ended up there on the really the day 121 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:05.720 after Halloween and November first, and I don't know whether 122 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:08.040 he I don't think he signed in, but I think 123 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:13.120 he walked in. And the woman that was working there, 124 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:17.920 she was all by herself. It never came out how 125 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:22.319 exactly this happened, but she ended up being murdered. And 126 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:24.959 what Gallan did was he had taken the broad sword 127 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:31.519 from one of the displays, and he had he had 128 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:35.240 thrust that thing down to the top of her shoulder 129 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:42.040 into her midsection, and as I recall it, it pierced 130 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:45.959 her heart or severed maybe a valve in her heart, 131 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:49.920 had done an extensive amount of damage. I'm sure she 132 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:55.720 died very quickly. And of course he you know, I 133 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:58.319 don't know how he managed not to get blood on himself, 134 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:06.160 but he did. And what was weird is that two 135 00:08:06.279 --> 00:08:10.639 brothers had shown up at the museum a little bit later, 136 00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:14.480 and they came in there and they they hadn't you know, 137 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.720 they were waiting to you know, to pay the price 138 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:23.000 of admission, and nobody was there, so they just started 139 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:26.800 walking around the place and uh, one of the brothers 140 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:32.279 had gone upstairs and you know, well I think one 141 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:36.600 one had stayed in like the bookstore area, and he 142 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:39.960 came back, and uh, you know, he had his brother 143 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.639 follow him upstairs because he saw something that bothered him. 144 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.200 And you know, a lot of times when people will 145 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:50.399 see bodies, they if they come upon something horrific like this, 146 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:55.480 sometimes they won't often know it's a real body. Sometimes 147 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:58.200 it will be obvious, and sometimes it won't. And he 148 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:02.440 couldn't believe what he was seeing when he founder, so 149 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:06.039 he he had his brother, you know, follow him back up. 150 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:09.679 And of course, you know, she was quite dead. So 151 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:14.399 that became a mystery as to what happened to this girl. 152 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:20.399 And and uh Gallon wasn't arrested until a long time later. 153 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:21.480 Uh. 154 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:26.519 And in fact, as I recall, the guy who broke 155 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:30.000 the case was a detective. He I think he was 156 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:34.600 a suspect for a while, but they didn't have anything 157 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:38.320 solid on him. But but but the uh, but a 158 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:42.320 cold case detective. He came along later and he got 159 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.399 to work back on that case and ended up interviewing 160 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:50.320 a number of Gallon's friends and stuff and uh, girls 161 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:52.960 he dated, and he was able to put more together 162 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:57.480 uh about this and what came from some people that 163 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:02.240 knew him was quite strange, especially the women he uh 164 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:06.240 he dated, and uh, you know, like the one girl 165 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:10.399 had said that he, you know, liked to have rough 166 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:15.440 sex and sometimes he would like to choke her, but 167 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:19.679 not into like unconsciousness. But she said something weird too, 168 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:23.240 like you would say sometimes he'd like to imagine himself 169 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:26.480 to be a doctor or perhaps a soldier, some type 170 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:30.960 of authority figure. And uh, he was just quite strange. 171 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:39.600 And later when this, you know, the cops got on 172 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:43.039 his trail. He lived next I believe it was next 173 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:48.679 door to a Kentucky State trooper and this trooper had 174 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:53.039 witnessed him one time out when he had set up 175 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:58.559 some boxes and some cardboard boxes, and he had taken 176 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:01.320 a sword he has I don't Japanese sort or whatever, 177 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:06.120 but he was whipping this thing all around in different directions. 178 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:09.120 He was quite good with the sword and you know, 179 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:11.480 turn around and put his back to the boxes and 180 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:14.559 sliced beside him into the sword, and then he would 181 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:16.559 switch around and do something else and he would just 182 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:21.799 whack these boxes up really quickly, and you know, the 183 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:25.879 cop took notice of that. But eventually, you know, he 184 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:28.919 was apprehended through some things that he did. I don't 185 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:31.200 want to get the whole story away, but because I 186 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:34.919 know people will enjoy meeting this, but it's it's it's 187 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:39.240 got a lot of twists in it. And if you 188 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:42.159 can imagine those two brothers coming in there are creepy 189 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:44.960 that must have been to be met with silence, only 190 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:47.320 to find her dead body. And for quite some time 191 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:50.679 this was an unsolved case. So Bartstown is rather small, 192 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.799 and so that that probably sent a nice little shockwave 193 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.559 through the community. And if people weren't locking their doors, 194 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:00.799 then you know they soon would be. So it's a 195 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:01.840 very interesting tale. 196 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:06.840 You've got a detective you speak of a detective, Robert Foster, 197 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:08.559 who took on the case after about two and a 198 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:10.440 half years. Like you say, it was cold for a while, 199 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:15.279 even though they had suspicions obviously, But what was interesting 200 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.559 is all the claims made from all the Foster just 201 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:21.919 happens to go talk to his ex girlfriends. You know, 202 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.120 if that comes a wealth of information, like fascinating stuff 203 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.320 like it's fascinated with dungeons and dragons, the occult martial 204 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:34.240 arts and edged weapons, like you said. But he's also, 205 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.320 according to Rosemary Lawrence, one of his exes, he's a 206 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.639 member of a black cult, devil worship. Yea, there's a 207 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.279 lot going on here. And then when you talked about 208 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:47.480 the crime scene itself, you say in the book that 209 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.960 this broadsword, not everybody knows what a broadsword, but I 210 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:53.080 imagine it's a big sword, like something from very low days, 211 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:56.159 but three feet tall, so it's a three foot sword. 212 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:59.600 It was put through her. She was you know, she 213 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:02.240 was impaled on this thing, and then her throat was 214 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:08.279 cut with a dagger and there was Yeah. 215 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:13.360 And in fact, the broadsword you people don't know, I'll explain. 216 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:18.559 They're so large that they're basically two handed weapons. It's 217 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:21.519 not like you would stand there and joust or you know, 218 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:24.159 just do it like put one hand behind your back 219 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:27.320 like you see people's fency. No, broadswords were very long, 220 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:31.559 and they were very heavy, and they're like battle swords, 221 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:34.879 and they carry a lot of weight and they're sharp 222 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:37.360 on both sides of the blade, and boy, you can 223 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.919 really do some damage with those things. And so to 224 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:44.600 think about that, he didn't just pierce her like with 225 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:48.480 a straight on stick, like you know, like in her stomach. 226 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.240 He brought that thing that way down. He must have 227 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:54.279 had her like on the ground, on her knees. I 228 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:56.679 don't know how he did it, but he got that 229 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.519 thing down through the top of her shoulder and rams 230 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:02.679 it all the way down. So I think, as I recall, 231 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.000 I like the autopsy report talked about how quickly she died. 232 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:08.639 I think I put that in the story, but I 233 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:12.159 remember reading it in the case file because of the 234 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:14.159 piercing of her heart or something. 235 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:19.279 What also was very fascinating, and because you don't see 236 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:21.919 this in a lot of cases. I mean there's some 237 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.600 talk of it maybe at trial, but this is some 238 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:29.240 interesting evidence in this case where when the police sees 239 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:33.759 some evidence from this guy, they sees a Satanic Bible 240 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:39.120 that's not your run of the mill thing, books on rituals, witchcraft, 241 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:43.279 and notebooks containing Satanic writings and drawings. So this guy 242 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:45.879 was he was very serious. 243 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:49.840 Yeah, he was. He was. In fact, he was by 244 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:53.320 the time false Or caught up with him, he was 245 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:57.720 in the Marine Corps and he was about to be 246 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:01.480 kicked out he was having some drug issues and really 247 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:06.519 some other issues as well. So uh yeah, he's a Yeah. 248 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:08.919 His girlfriends, as I recall, they didn't have a whole 249 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:13.039 other good things to say about him. But yeah, yeah, 250 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.559 I said, yeah, yeah, a member of the black cult. 251 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:19.399 She goes on say, you know, which is devil worshiping. 252 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:23.120 So he was a very strange, strange individual. And if 253 00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:29.000 you remember so, he basically confessed on the way home 254 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:36.279 after he was taken from uh, I guess, not Pendles, 255 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.559 and that's California, but it's the one on the east coast, 256 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:44.759 the marine base. Uh. He basically he talked about hearing 257 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:48.159 a roaring in his head. Remember he said like yeah, 258 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.080 but he also said that out of a lawn war. 259 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:53.399 Yeah. He also said he was on queludes. And he 260 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.559 also said he couldn't remember, so let's be yeah, yes, 261 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.519 I he could have said. He said, I could have 262 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:02.200 killed her. I can't remember, had those queludes roaring in 263 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:08.279 my head like a lawnmower. Yep, you know, Yes, what's 264 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.039 the most What's again? You open this book and this 265 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:13.720 is an incredible opening to a book. And I won't 266 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.399 we won't dwell on this because we've got to talk 267 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.519 about all these other incredible stories, but again what I 268 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:22.960 find most fascinating, and some of the some members of 269 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:26.159 the audience have contacted me too, because we there's a 270 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:28.360 gap in some of the true crime stories. As many 271 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:33.600 bizarre and unbelievable stories, this is one that really has 272 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:39.679 this otherworldly almost effect to this where you have what 273 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.399 was found on Carol Mudd's body and originally was a 274 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:46.440 back part of a like a brooch, like a pin attachment, 275 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:50.039 and they didn't know really what it was, but they 276 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:53.559 knew that they had it in their possession, and later 277 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:59.360 when they did seize evidence from from him, they what 278 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:04.440 they did find was the other part of that pin. 279 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.039 So tell us what that with the significance of that 280 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.599 pin was in continuum of our talk about if I 281 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.680 recall it was something it was like a satanic pin, 282 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.480 was it not? It was a Satanic star Yeah, it 283 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:21.039 was a Satanic star pin. 284 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:25.960 Yes, yes, And so you know this is something so 285 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:31.920 he I guess placed this. I don't know. I can't 286 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:34.519 to be honest, I can't remember. I'm not sure if 287 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.240 he I don't even know if it came out, if 288 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:39.119 he placed it on her body, or if he accidentally 289 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:42.759 left it at the scene. I'm not sure. I can't remember, 290 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:45.519 but I didn't. 291 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.039 Really say in your book. It didn't say in your book, 292 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:51.319 But what it said was the star had two inverted 293 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:57.720 crosses yes and and the number six six six, and 294 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:01.920 it was on a small gold broadsword word ten. That 295 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.880 would when they put the two pieces together, they fit perfectly, 296 00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:07.960 and that was an important in the trial as well, 297 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.480 to connect him further than he was already connected in 298 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:14.359 this case. But I don't see. 299 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.799 Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at it right now because there's 300 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.240 every call on it's the the actual file is coming 301 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:25.160 back to me. I've got ridden here. It talks about 302 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:28.440 it was found on her. I don't think it was 303 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:33.279 ever determined whether it was broken by accident or or 304 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:36.480 whether he left it as like a calling card. I 305 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.960 don't think they ever made a determination of that. I'm 306 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.680 not sure, but it was. Yeah, it was weird, and 307 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:48.240 of course you uh yeah. They used that serial uh 308 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:55.160 microscope and they did what was a ten point you know, comparison. 309 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:59.359 I mean, these things are usually very easy to uh 310 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:03.400 man together. Whenever you have something that's been broken off, 311 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.240 even though they've been separated by some some some distance, 312 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.559 it doesn't matter when you're bring it back together. It's 313 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.640 it's a it's a pretty easy to compare them and 314 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.720 make a match. Of course, you know the opposing attorneys 315 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.519 will always try to tear that down, but yeah, it 316 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:21.519 was just, yeah, it's weird. This whole case does have 317 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:24.400 a different feel to it because if you look at 318 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.559 Gallon and you look at how strange he was in 319 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:31.240 this satanic stuff, and then you look how that worked out 320 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:36.319 among the people that knew him, and and and these girlfriends, 321 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.839 who's some of them are quite close to him and 322 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:44.880 got to see him a lot. Yeah, it just it's 323 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:47.480 just a real, real different feel, and it's a different 324 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:52.200 type murder because most murders don't happen like this. They 325 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:56.440 they never did find out why he did it, and 326 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.519 I'm not sure that they know exactly how he did it. 327 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:04.759 They just know he did it and and what drove 328 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:08.559 him to the museum to be the first one in 329 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:13.000 there is anyone's guests. I don't think he ever talked 330 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:13.400 about it. 331 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:17.480 No, but you say in the book that four months 332 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:21.319 after the murder just happened to write a little song 333 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:25.839 called The Hunter. And also there was writings and drivings. Well, 334 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:29.119 won't go into that, but needless to say, it sounds 335 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:31.960 like a typical psychopathic killer to me. 336 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:36.440 Sure, yes, yes, and he's free today. I mean, I 337 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:41.759 don't as sorry call he's he was released. I don't 338 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:45.880 know how much time he did, but he's out there somewhere. 339 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:47.359 He'd probably still in Kentucky. 340 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:51.039 Well, he received a thirty year sentence, so you would 341 00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:55.480 think if they had any provision for time off or 342 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:59.440 good behavior of some sort whatever that was eighty six 343 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.359 is so that would certainly be coming up to the 344 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.359 thirty years and if there was any kind of parole 345 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:08.000 ability all it'd said in your book. And again, what 346 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:10.000 he was sentenced to was thirty years, and so we 347 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:14.920 don't know exactly what Kentucky parole eligibility was or what 348 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:18.640 the deal was exactly that thirty years. Let's move to 349 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.880 your next story, where again completely different, but it's called 350 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.960 Blood in the Moonlight And this is Kurrs December ninth, 351 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:31.519 nineteen eighty three, Albert and Mabel Bauer and they're sixty 352 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:35.480 three years old, and this is this occurs in Louisville, 353 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:38.960 Kentucky around and this is their annual fraternity Order of 354 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:45.880 Police dinner and Albert is the deputy sheriff and their son, 355 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.559 Albert Junior, twenty nine years old, has had some problems 356 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.720 moved back with his parents. Tell us a little bit 357 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:58.079 about Albert Junior and the circumstances that led to him 358 00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:01.160 moving back in with his parents, Lile Kentucky. 359 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:05.920 Well, Albert Well. First of all, the home is uh. 360 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.079 I have a picture of the home in the book. 361 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.960 The picture doesn't really do it justice. It's it's a 362 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:16.759 nice middle class home. What you can't see is it's 363 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.880 about a half a block from a neighborhood high school. 364 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.960 I always like when you know these high schools and stuff, 365 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:28.240 you know you would be right in the neighborhood. And uh, 366 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:32.319 you know, it's just it's a nice area and it's 367 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:36.119 low crime. And I don't know if they'd ever had 368 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:40.240 a homicide. Louisville does have a good number of homicides, 369 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:44.440 but those usually occur in the western portion of downtown. 370 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.359 When you get out into the suburbs, you know that 371 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:53.880 there are occasional homicides, but this was a particularly quiet area. 372 00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.240 And uh, it just goes to show you that things 373 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:02.480 can happen. They that were apparently quite normal. They were 374 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:07.359 getting up into their older years, you know, and the 375 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:11.839 son had Albert Junior, had had problems. I mean he 376 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:18.039 had battled, uh, mental problems, and he was also on drugs, 377 00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:23.880 and he had been living apart from his family. But 378 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:29.480 but but decided to move back home. And you know, 379 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:34.119 there had been issues. And this is a terrible, terrible thing, 380 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.640 but parents go through things like this and they start 381 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:41.960 having issues with their sons or I guess in some 382 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:46.200 cases daughters, but invariably it's with the sun and uh, 383 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:49.759 then they start showing some instability, and then they share 384 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:57.440 start showing instability with perhaps a engine for violence. Parents 385 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:00.359 don't always move as quickly as they should take care 386 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:04.640 of the situation, and some often believe that, uh, it 387 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:09.519 won't really turn the violence. And so Bauer was living 388 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:14.680 in their basement. And on this particular night, they had 389 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:20.240 been to the lodge to have this dinner. And I 390 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:26.000 know that Albert sr uh excuse me, had a friend 391 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.039 he spoke with that night. They were good friends, and 392 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:32.079 so they came home and uh, I guess it was 393 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:36.640 about maybe uh, I don't know, if I think about uh, 394 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.359 they probably came home around eleven something like that. Maybe 395 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:46.119 the laughter and uh, Albert Junior was out for the 396 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:48.680 evening and he had gone out and done some things 397 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.319 and he had run into somebody at a local bar, 398 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:58.599 and uh the guy was kind of, you know, joking 399 00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:01.599 with him about some things, and he came very hostile 400 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:05.720 towards him. And he wasn't acting himself. I mean, people 401 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:09.000