Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another episode of
Geek First Podcast. I am one of your hosts, my
partner Taylor Field, and I'm joined.
Speaker 2: By I am the Real Hunter Kirkland Patzer.
Speaker 3: I am the Foreigner Dyll Muss.
Speaker 1: Yes, we are here because the very special finale review
for Sony. I guess I should say we're gonna be
reviewing Craven the Hunter Tonight, Ladies and gentlemen. Before we
get into our non spoilers and spoilers thoughts, a couple
of plugs. You can find this with your Internet connection
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And I also want to shout out our amazing Patroon producers,
Aaron Braden, April of Darkness, Jack Grant, Mud Sam Super Bad, Mike,
God Loves Me sixty nine, Jeremy Riyn. You folks are fantastic.
Keep the lights on. What else is cooking in the
oven right now?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: My god, million TV shows, million movie reviews. Side Quest
is gonna have two episodes next week. It's a very
busy time. I think the only thing people can do
is subscribe and then they can just see it all
and they don't have to think about it. They don't think, oh,
what's coming on one day, Just hit that button and
then it'll just pop there on your phone, right in
front of you, and then you can just listen happily.
Speaker 1: Well said, We'll say I think for you. Kirklandific.
Speaker 4: My first ever solo review, first ever solo episode that
I've ever done. Potentially a second one. We'll see if
that actually happens.
Speaker 2: We got Dexter.
Speaker 1: New Blood.
Speaker 2: I can't remember Original Sin.
Speaker 4: There you go, Yes, Second Blood, So stay tuned to
those feeds. I'm not gonna cement in Stone right now
if I can get crack out a solo review of that,
but we'll be jumping onto those reviews weekly.
Speaker 2: They once they do.
Speaker 1: Yes beautiful, all right, So yes, we're here. We have
it's now. Sony came forward and basically said they're kind
of wrapping things up with this movie, and so this
is kind of end of an era because we've kind
of gone through so many different Sony Verse Marvel films,
and it really felt like they were gonna really create
their own Sandbox and world. But here we are, they're
closing it out Aaron Taylor Johnson and yeah, so who
wants to take it away with the non spoilers thoughts.
Speaker 4: It's funny you mentioned Sandbox felt more like a litter box. Honestly, Oh,
I was witnessed too. Yeah, I feel like the Sony
universe as a whole, I'm happy that I can close
this chapter just because I feel like it peaked on
the first film, which would have been Venom, and that
wasn't even like a high peak. It was just like, Okay,
this is this is not a terrible movie. I quite
enjoy some aspects to it. And then I just feel
like every project since, like yeah, I feel I feel
like every project since has been worse and worse. Like
I'm I didn't like solidify my Sony rankings or anything
like that, but yeah, in hindsight, I feel like as
they went on, it just got worse and worse. And
I don't know, I had I feel like because I
had expectations. Solow, It's like they can't really disappoint me
that much further, and I must say they truly did.
Was this was an extremely rough movie. I believe that,
and I just can't believe it's one hundred and ten
million dollar project. Like I feel like this is just
such a terrible, terrible production of something of media that
they put out there, and probably a little bit of
like some hyperbole in there, but it doesn't seem too
extreme honestly, Like I feel like the vast majority of
this movie, I was just really wanting it to get
just over and done with. And I don't know, I
try not to be too negative with my reviews. I
feel like most of my reviews don't usually go that
hot and heavy, at least to the start. But yeah,
over two hours for this movie cut like forty minutes. Honestly,
this could have been so much cleaner as an R
rated film, too, Like why why was this R rated?
Speaker 2: Like just shooting themselves in.
Speaker 4: The foot by limiting the audience, Like the lack of
interest was already at an all time high I feel for
this movie and then limiting, you know, a vast majority
of the audience by making R rate is just crazy
to me. Aaron Tyler Johnson not terrible, Like definitely, He's
not the problem of this movie by any means. I
feel like I really have been liking him lately in
like in side roles and stuff, so I am kind
of rooting for the guy and like wanting him to
get a really good lead role in something I don't know,
like an ari ast or something like I want to
see something different than just an action movie because I like,
like he's he's good in it, but I just think
I want to see him in a very different type
of role with a very solid script, like a really
I don't know, just just solid story. And I knew
I was going to get that tuned into this, but yeah, yeah,
there you go. He's not necessarily the lead in that though, right,
because he is great like as side characters at least
the last handful of projects that I have seen him in.
I don't think i've seen kick Ass either, Like I
don't know, I know, it's like a different era of
Aaron Taylor Johnson, so like, I don't know how you
would compare the performances there, but yeah, no, I think
there were. For me, I felt like this movie was
majority just like bad in the sense of I'm not
even like having a fun time laughing at this, like
it's just like.
Speaker 2: Actually bad and dry. To get through felt really long.
Speaker 4: There was some spikes in the uh in like that
direction of it just being ridiculous, and I just couldn't
believe what I was seeing. So I was laughing out
loud for sure at a couple points, but I think
only one actual joke like like got me like like
a little chuckle like and I don't know, there was
like five people in my theater opening night.
Speaker 2: They didn't even put this in the extreme theater. I
was kind of shocked. I don't know what I expected.
Speaker 4: I guess just seeing like what the expectations where numbers
wise going into the weekend and everything.
Speaker 2: But I was still just kind of amazed.
Speaker 4: I walked in there and it's like man, like literally
two people like this is crazy. And then a couple
more people came in after and pretty dead crowd. No
one was really laughing at anything. And yeah, no, it's
just uh goodbye sony uh whatever we're calling this, and yeah,
I hardly miss you. Let me sorry for example, So yeah,
sorry for starting.
Speaker 2: So negative, but uh, that's kind of how I felt.
Speaker 3: I mean, is that unsurprising start for a Sony movie
because we have we got six movies in total, right,
three the three Venom movies, Web, This and Morebious. Does
it feel like more or less than that to you guys,
or like, does it feel like it has been exactly six?
It feels like more. Yeah, maybe that's just because I
feel like I'm being tortured when I'm watching these movies.
Speaker 4: I think for me, it feels like like more when
you say six, because I just kind of clumped venoms together.
Speaker 2: So maybe that's the reason.
Speaker 4: Like I kind of see it as four because it's
just like four kind of I don't know characters. I
guess that they're that they're going with, So yeah.
Speaker 3: I can. I can jump in here next. I mean, yeah, Kirkland,
Kirkland's all the money here. This is Sony Marvel movie.
So it's not good. The main thing is that the
writing is just just awful. That's always it. I almost
said great there for a second. I don't know how
that almost slipped out. Yeah, just like very generic dialogue,
all the one liners from any character. I feel like,
as far as quips go, this movie is not very quippi.
But when it is, it's just just generic lines you've
heard churned out a thousand times from chat GPT or
something like that. So it's it's a classic in that,
in that Sony realm. But for some reason I kind
of had fun with like a lot of this movie.
I don't know why. There's definitely large swaths I did
not like the origin story sequence. We'll talk about that.
And speaking of like where you could have cut Kirkland,
that was like three times longer than it needed to
be to get the point across. But then there were
some other moments and like there were some interesting characters
in here, a couple villain type guys, one guy in
particular that I really enjoyed actually not necessarily like killer
dialogue or anything, but just in terms of like some
fun visual effects and whatnot. And yeah, I think Aaron
Taylor Johnson like does a pretty good job here for like,
for a character that doesn't really have a personality, like,
he still is fun enough on screen, and I like
the dynamic he had was with his brother. I thought
that that was a fun combo and even like with
their dad, like that whole trio actually like kind of
worked for me somewhat. I still don't think this is
a good movie by any means, but I was at
least able to find some more fun here, and just
kind of comparing to other ones recently, like Madame Webb
was almost so bad it was good, you know, just
because like the dubbing was off and the dialogue was
so trash that was it was just like I could
laugh at that one a lot. We talked about the
first Venom back in the day, like that was a
hilarious movie in the theater, just making fun of it,
and I feel like along the way, like Morbius was
just not fun or so bad as good, Venom three
was not that. I still haven't seen Venom two. I
just never never got around to that one, and so
I feel like this is maybe my favorite of the
Sony verse, or maybe I like Venom one more, but
I just haven't rewatched that movie since it came out,
so I'm very fuzzy on it. But with all that said,
I'm never gonna watch this again. And when it comes
to Golden Geeks or even the MC or the Marvel
Golden Geeks, You're not gonna see me pepping this in
a bunch of categories. So don't get me wrong, there
but I'm happily I'm not just dreading what I saw
in the way that I have for some of these
other movies. So I don't know if i'll both really
defend it at all because I don't think it's good,
but yeah, I at least found some some things I
could enjoy. But where are you at? Taylor?
Speaker 1: Oh? So, first of all, I got to shout out
to Charlie Randall, another one of our patron producers. So sorry,
I haven't put your your name of the roster yet,
but it is there now. But my thoughts, oh nice
you are. This movie feels chopped up and indecisive and
incohesive in how it's kind of trajectory is going in
its storyline and it's storytelling, and I had I felt
that that really really pulled me out. Now. The writing
is definitely not great. There's a lot of moments in
this movie where I feel like, Okay, the characters probably
had their lines changed, because there's one very huge yes
Aaron Taylor Johnson that his lips don't move, but he
actually says dialogue and that really pulls me just like
it was a multiple Yeah you saw it with other
characters too. Okay, yeah, I'll shout.
Speaker 2: It out, you know, when we get further in.
Speaker 4: But I'm glad you brought that up, actually, because that
really took me out of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's not great. It's not great. But I
do think that the actors definitely, you know, they came
to play and I do enjoy Russell Crowe in these
in these roles for some reason. Uh, he just to me,
he really feels like this Pope's Exorcist kind of rolling out.
Speaker 2: You feel that the same accent it was when he
was first talking.
Speaker 1: Exact same accent. Yeah. So, and maybe it was the
Dena Thieves two trailer that I got at the start
of the movie too. I was just thinking, like, I'm
feeling the Russell Crowe right now, So that Butler was
that Gerard Butler. I thought it was Russell Crowe.
Speaker 2: Definitely Dard Butler.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, a similar in their in their old age.
They are looking the exact same.
Speaker 1: I'm the same person. Yeah, oh my goodness. But yeah,
there's there's just a few other things in this movie
that I don't know. It's it's not it's not one
that I'm gonna be revisiting right away, but It's definitely
a movie that I think, uh the end of the day,
it was something that I kind of enjoyed. But again,
like it's not anything that's breaking records or breaking new
tears in the movie, and just like it's just it's
not it's not that. And so if you're looking for
something that's just kind of like a brain dead actioning movie,
then this is probably gonna be it. But I will
say Aaron Taylor Johnson definitely, he he was great. I
had a lot of fun with him. I did get
pulled out at times when he's running on like on
all fours because I just I couldn't imagine how he
was able to be faster when he's doing that. But again,
it's it's whatever.
Speaker 3: It's magic.
Speaker 1: It's magic. Yeah, but yeah, there's just there's some other
weird conclusions too with our characters. We're like, okay, this
was clearly their last scene, or there's some other things too,
and just some other yeah, just some other weird things
that they introduced. But oh no, it's a movie that
I I had fun with and I think that you
can probably wait and not go see it in theaters.
You probably just stay at home and wa'd see it
at at home.
Speaker 3: Or just wait your entire life and never see it.
I think that's okay, wait.
Speaker 1: Till the MCU does a version of Craven themselves, and
I think you'll be happy with that.
Speaker 3: So in the form of a Craven movie or do
you think, guy, do you think they will ever try that?
Speaker 1: I think you'll, Well, it depends. It depends what we
see the future being for Sony, what they do with
these characters, they license them out or something like that.
But yeah, I would put more faith in the MCU
and Figy to handle this character than Sony apparently did
here with this movie. And it seems like we're not
the only ones. A lot of other people seem to
be kind of joining our our team here with giving
it low scores, but tweet his own. I mean, maybe
you'll go see it and you might think it's the
best movie of the year, right, that's yeah. If it's the.
Speaker 3: Only movie you saw, then maybe it could be the
same time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But on that notes, was there anything else you
guys wanted to add?
Speaker 3: Well, just a quick I guess we'll talk about the
set pieces when we get into the spoilers, But just
what do you guys. Think of the action overall in this,
the fight scenes and c GI quality and that sort
of stuff.
Speaker 4: I thought it was an incredible waste of R ratedness,
like in the sense of, yeah.
Speaker 3: There's one scene that really goes for it, but the
other ones I kind of forgot until that scene that like, oh, yeah,
this is right and they can do anything, and they
just refused to. For most of the movie.
Speaker 4: It just felt like PG thirteen scenes with like some
added blood to it, and I thought all the blood
in it honestly looked terrible, Like there's a couple flowing
blood scenes and it just looked so CGI in the
sense of like a PS two graphic, like like it
looked so bad, and it's just like, man, they literally
just erase the red and you can just have this
a PG thirteen movie, like maybe remove some fboms. So yeah,
I definitely think that overall the action was a lot
more tame and I.
Speaker 2: Choose my words wisely there.
Speaker 4: In the sense of a pun but yeah, no for
a Hunter movie with the craven the Hunter like, it
just it felt very held back, and I feel like
when you get the R raidedness, like let's just go
for it, right, like, let's really get some gut spewing
all over the place, and I don't. It just seemed
really lackluster in that sense. And also there was a
lot of action that just felt kind of cement mixery,
which very like reminded me of Morbius.
Speaker 2: I remember Morebius having action like that.
Speaker 4: I really don't remember much of anything of Madam Webb.
I imagine some of the action that would have been
in that movie was similar, so reocurrering thing with the
Sony movies, because Venom also was very much like that
when you had like multiple symbiotes. I remember in the
in the first movie for sure, like the last fight
between Venom and Riot I think was the name just
just like a kerfuffle and very like, yeah, not well
well done. So m hm, that's my passionate thoughts on
on the action of this movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fair I I there's a couple that that worked
for me. There's one stealth sequence in Particula that I
actually really enjoyed. We can talk about that, and then yeah,
I don't know, I just I kind of just liked
some of the movement stuff of him just running around
the city or like you know, a particular prison. I'll say,
I don't know. It was kind of fun for what
it was, so I had some more I had some
better moments of the action here than I have with
the other Sony Verse stuff.
Speaker 4: I would say, I think I know the scene that
you're talking about and you're alluding to, because as soon
as it was going on, I just thought of you
and I wanted to, you know, make a comparison to
maybe a certain video games series.
Speaker 3: I'm playing some hit Man that I was. I was
all over.
Speaker 4: It reminded me of like an arcane type game. I'm like, man,
this is like basically my movements in the game. It's
just it looks funny in a live action setting.
Speaker 3: So it does. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Cool, Well how about we jump to our first at
break and then we get back into this. I love that,
and we are back. So where do you guys want
to start?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: I want to start by saying I feel like this
movie was very very clearly reshot in multiple different.
Speaker 2: I guess sequences of the story.
Speaker 4: I felt like there was some stuff with the opening
that was very drawn out, with like the prison break,
where it felt like we were in one scene maybe
like one hallway, and then he like jumps to another area,
and it like just the way that he like is
walking in the one scene and then picking up and
like talking to another person. It just seemed like they
had like redone some things there that one wasn't as
noticeable as like some of the adr stuff that was
going on between Calypso and Craven when they're in like
that dome type thing.
Speaker 1: It felt like they shot that and they were in
they were in different sets.
Speaker 4: That was the scene Taylor when I like, I was
actually getting tripped out because she's talking and her mouth
was like so clearly cgied over to the point where
it like like her eyes are like still and then
her mouth's moving as if it's like an alien taking
over her body, And I'm like, is this.
Speaker 2: Like a story thing?
Speaker 4: Like like this is so obvious that like it it
makes it feel like she's about to reveal that she's
a scroll or something like it.
Speaker 2: It was so tripping me out.
Speaker 4: And then of course later on there was also more
moments of like as if it's a Bruce Lee type movie,
where like someone's mouth is moving and it's just like
a completely different like pace of dialogue and the words
are just like not SYNCD with the mouth, and like
why even do a close up of the face, Like
why not just have him like from behind talking if
you're gonna do that Adr stuff. It was, Oh, it was.
It was crazy. It like totally took me out of it.
And then I'm like, there's no way. That's actually just
poorly edited in that sense, like like there it's gonna
be a story reason and it didn't, And I'm like,
what the fuck am I watching one hundred and ten
million dollars for this?
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Like this is so hysterical? How
bad that was? But uh, I don't know, I was
pretty passionate about it.
Speaker 3: I guess yeah. For me, the the Madam Webb Adr
stuff stood out way more than this for whatever reason.
So uh yeah, yeah I didn't. I guess I didn't
catch it. I must have been eating my snack when
those particular dialogues happened or something like.
Speaker 1: It's just a shame that they have to go ahead
and allow those things to be noticeable, because You're right,
gregn that's a lot of money, it's a big budget,
and I just feel like it's very unfortunate they act
have to. They should do a better job at trying
to uphold that standard and kind of get that out
of there, and if you have to do reshoots, we'll
reshoot those scenes where you're removing all that ad lip
stuff and it doesn't look so poorly cgied where their
mouths are not speaking to the same words that are
supposed to be coming out of their mouths. And yeah,
that whole scene when it was her and him talking
at his base, and it was it was just filmed
in a way that, Okay, they're definitely not together, well,
they're having this conversation in the same set, but it
also felt like she's gonna get sniped or executed because
we knew the bad guys were coming here, and she
was just gonna get like sniped on the spot and
then he was gonna be like, oh, oh my god,
I gotta go fight or something like that. But even
her ending that was that was it. Shortly after that,
like she gave him the medicine and was like, yoh
my god, I was just gonna give you my family's
recipe or whatever, and that was it. She never came
back at the for the whole rest of the movie.
She's like, go get them and then she's done. It's like, well,
I would have loved a little bit more closure, but
the way she was introduced and the way she just
was reintroduced at this funeral with Craven, that just felt
shoehorn down. There were so many plots that really just
were like shoehorned into this story and it was very uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: I'm glad you like brought her up about like how
disjointed it felt, because I felt like some of the
biggest moments for me that felt just like random in
the sense of it not being like a natural progression
of like tying things together, Like it just felt like
it was like a multiverse jump sometimes was all around
her character Calypso I.
Speaker 2: Feel like in the early portions with the younger.
Speaker 4: Version of Craven, which I am, I'm not mistaken, it
was sixteen.
Speaker 2: Years one six Yeah, that is okay, that's crazy to me.
Speaker 4: But anyways, so like just her introduction there to her
being a lawyer, and it seems like this is gonna
be like some very like moral gray area. I don't
eve think it's a gray area. I think she's just
like a straight up like helper and murder whatever. That's called,
and she's like a lawyer, which seems like they're very like,
you know, ethical in the sense of like I feel
like if anybody found out anything that she's doing here,
she could just get disbarred and like lose her entire
career being a lawyer, and she's just completely fine with it.
There's a lot of just she has this elixir of
life that she's just not sharing with the world like
at all.
Speaker 2: She could be saving like so many lives with.
Speaker 4: This, like literally like cancer, patience, sick children, Like she's
just keeping this close to the chest because it's her
like and like like how is that attached to the
tarot cards too that she's carrying around with her grandmother
and then she's also a lawyer.
Speaker 2: Like, man, it was so weird. I think I was really.
Speaker 4: Expecting like an interesting superhero type reveal, like with her
character of being Calypso, she's got these tarot cards. I've
never heard of this character before, so I don't know
if she's actually sourced from comic book material, but she.
Speaker 3: Is if you google Calypso. It's just like she's one
of those characters who always has like three square inches
of fabric on her whole body like just very sexualized
and like has a very different style, and so I
think they were going for a more grounded version, which
they seem to do for like almost all of these
Sony Verse type characters. And I don't know what her
actual origin is here, but yeah, I feel like they
took it like a much different route that would fit
the movie. But yeah, there was a lot of weird stuff,
like specifically the moment when when Craven's brother Dima gets
taken and so he calls her out. He goes to
her office and get that moment. He's like all wet
in the office and whatnot, and he's like, oh, yeah,
there was there was three guys and he had a
Turkish cigarette and then she just like can instantly find
who these people are, and like the whole world was
like insane the level of connections that she has that
she was able to pull that out. So yeah, there
was a lot of like the conveniences of like those
two characters are kind of just able to do anything,
but then they kind of just sometimes if one of
them can't get the info, the other one can, and
that ended up being the perfect team. But then you're
right Tayl. It's kind of weird that she just kind
of went away there at the end, and then you
kind of have like one year later sequence that's just
him and his brother. You know, you don't have her
related to the story, even though it seems like they'd
be pretty intertwined at them at that point. But I
do feel like a lot of that stuff at the
end probably changed or edited or reshot or something, because
even the one sequence when she's like in his home
base in the little dome house and she finds the
button to like bring all the weapons down, and then
we get a shot that like it seems like it's
minutes after that, but maybe it's days or something. And
then like he dramatically hits the button and like brings
the weapons down again. But it's like, didn't she like
just do that, Like I guess that was a different
day or something. But just like in terms of even
the dramatic like that, as a viewer, that's supposed to
be cool. It's like when Iron Man like reveals all
these hidden suits, but it's like, you got you just
did that four seconds ago, Like why are you showing
us this scene madically again? Of showing each one coming
down when it's not even that cool of a bass,
Like it's it's a pretty basic one room little base there.
We don't need to see that sequence twice.
Speaker 4: Man, that I actually was like laughing out loud in
that moment because, like you said, like she she like
does the reveal, like, oh, that's kind of cool some gadgetry,
and then like later on it's like the badass version
with some and then you see like the bad guys
grabbing their like fucking bear traps, and like it felt
like Acme level of like Looney Tune like Coyote Wildye.
Speaker 3: Coyotes like traps.
Speaker 2: I just couldn't believe what was happening. I'm like, this
is the big showdown.
Speaker 4: They're getting fucking bear traps against Cravey lot, Like, oh
my god.
Speaker 3: Like the tree song ripped in half. I like legitimately
that jump scared me and like I flinched, I took
physical damage.
Speaker 2: That was like the most r rated that this movie
got though, right like.
Speaker 3: That was the very yeah, as you said, they very
easily could have toned that stuff down. And then like
even the two swears, like the F bombs in the
movie I think are from hurt both from Calypso, and
they're like two lines apart, so it's like like they
ain't could have easily he got away with not doing
that either.
Speaker 4: There was one more actually, it's when Aaron Taylor Johnson's
chasing Dema when he gets kidnapped and he's like running
down a hallway and he's like get the fuck out
of the way, and then he and then he and
there's like there's like no one really there, and then
he jumps outside and like wall runs and then jumps
back and then like the cameras and there's literally no
one there, like he could have just kept right.
Speaker 3: And then the van was like so far away at
that point, it's like, damn, that didn't end up working
at all.
Speaker 4: So uh I the one thing I'll say positive on
this character.
Speaker 2: I loved her outfits throughout the whole movie.
Speaker 4: So it's kind of funny that you said, like her
original character is like the character that you know, it's
like the old school silock outfits or like Captain Yeah,
like yeah exactly, whereas this one like it felt very
Wakanda in a certain way where it was like, I
don't know, some big like gold necklaces and just just
really she felt like a like royal Like it was
some really really cool outfits that they had for her.
I think like the most standout you would have been
at her lawyer office. And then at the end, I
guess she's got like a kind of like a cut
like no sleeve outfit attire on.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so I liked.
Speaker 4: Her outfits at least, even though I really really just
hated everything that was going on with the character.
Speaker 3: But she's yeah too, she was great, great with.
Speaker 2: A butchery archery summer camp. Like fuck have seen this.
Speaker 3: Kirkling to bring up, like so just her description on
Wikipedia here clipso was a nameless voodoo priestess who was
born and raised in Haiti, has psychopathic or she's a
psychopathic woman associated with the craven So I like that's
the one I'd pull that lining in there, and why
they like put the tarot card stuff in there just
to probably harken back to like what that character's origins are.
She doesn't really come across as like a voodoo type
character in this, but just like the hint of it
through the cards, which is weird, like she obviously did
that when she was like a teen whatever on safari
thing when she helped save Craven by find like calling
for help when he got mulled by the lion. But then,
like she says, she carries them around like into her adulthood.
So she's still just like in that small purse always
carries her like a huge pack of Darrow cards. It
doesn't seemingly ever use them again, but like that just
you know, it's connects her to her family, I guess,
so maybe that's maybe that's the reason why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked up the image.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what a wild outfit, very like early come booky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the character I'm kind of in agreeance with you, Kirkland.
But yeah, just the way she was just introduced and
kind of appeared, and her sources, like you mentioned Dylan,
it's just very odd. And we didn't even get a
climactic scene when Craven calls her up says, hey, it
was a setup. You need to get out of there
because Rhino's coming for you now. And then she immediately
just happens to see like, oh, there's five guys coming
to my building that don't look like they belong Like okay,
yeah that was the loading dock. That was insane time
and Cravens like, Okay, go out to the loading doc,
I'll still and pick you up. The next scene is there,
I'm pretty sure was Siberia where he lives or whatnot.
And she just got out of the plane. We never
meet his plane pilot friend, who's always like on these missions,
Like I was trying, I was, I was trying to
figure out, Okay, who is she in connection or relation
to him, because it feels like there's like a friendship here.
Speaker 3: But seems like that was something that maybe got cut,
like maybe there was an actor in that role in
a bigger way and then just didn't make it in
the end or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, unfortunately.
Speaker 3: Well, I would love to jump to another character then,
by the name of Foreigner, who's a Marvel character I've
never heard of before, played by what's this actor's name.
We've seen him in a couple of things recently. He
was in Poor Things, he was in Sanctuary. Christopher Abbott,
who's kind of like a I feel like an up
and comer lately. I didn't know he was going to
be in this movie, so that was kind of a
fun surprise, and I thought he did a good enough
job given the level, like the quality level of dialogue
in this But I thought that was a really cool character.
I liked his really trippy powers, kind of doing the countdown,
And don't know if he's freezing time, like if he's
a time traveler, or if he's just like you know,
knocking these people out, like knocking them unconscious, kind of
like Professor X can do that, right, just like put
people in a state of stasis for a bit while
he does other things. But either way, I thought he
was really cool. I thought his glasses, which were really
stupid looking, were just like a perfect fit how he
would take them off and then like look in people's
eyes and mind control them. So I thought he was
a super fun character. And like, on top of that,
one one thing that I love that I feel like
these Marvel movies never do, is you know your hero
character if you want to call Craven that anti hero villain,
I don't know what you want to call him, but
he you know, he's the protagonist, that he's the hero
in this setting in this story quote unquote, you kind
of expect that, Okay, he's gonna find this is like
huge adversary to him. It's a very different type of
villain or combat and then he's normally used to and
it's like, how is he gonna overcome this? And I
kind of love that the solution is that he just
never did. Like he straight up would have died and
lost were it not for Calypso to come in there
with it with the clean headshot and take that guy out.
Craven was dead to rights because like, even though he's
the greatest hunter in the world potentially or one of
the best, he still has his weaknesses in the way
that Rhino was like impenetrable except for like one tiny
little hole on the weft side of him, you know,
like any boss battle in a video game. I kind
of love that the Foreigner was just better than Craven
in a one on one, but his weakness, I don't
really know what you'd call his weakness, Like it's just
like he got two zoned in on the kill or something.
But I know, I thought he was a very fun
villain and a surprise because I've literally never heard of
this character, and I'm gonna look up right now if
he actually is like a known Marvel character.
Speaker 4: Yeah for me, Yeah, I think he was definitely the
more interesting part of this movie. I was really like
waiting for maybe more explanation on exactly what's happening. So
I think I was a little bit bummed that that
answer never got fully you know, resolved. But I guess
I can always look into some source material for the character,
because yeah, he was he was cool and.
Speaker 2: Interesting enough and.
Speaker 4: To make me want to you know, seek him out
and hopefully he's got some he's got some good juice
in the works, but definitely not in the Sony banner.
And I feel like I was also just like really
confused on his like alignment because like who initially hired him.
Speaker 2: Was it just Papa or is it Rhino.
Speaker 3: I think it was Rhino that hired him, because it.
Speaker 2: Seemed like Rhino was really confused when he like showed
up or like.
Speaker 3: I don't think he had maybe seen him or met
him before.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, he had just hired the foreigner.
Speaker 3: I think. So that's the way I read it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's just like a lot of the
handling maybe around the character and like logistics of how
it was all working was just so messy. It just
kind of frustrated me. But yeah, like the character himself
was definitely you know cool, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Don't think he'd like fit into the overall there rative
in a really seamless way. I just I just like
liked him more for the visual and like the power,
the power side of it.
Speaker 4: I like your just addressing I guess of like the
fact that Craven just couldn't actually beat this guy like
an in a straight up fight.
Speaker 3: And yeah, because Craven's not like some all powerful Marvel character.
He's like he's like just the generic, a little bit strong,
got better stam and all. Like he is that like
generic level character. So he shouldn't be able to just
beat every opponent. You know, He's gonna lose to so
many people. And I think that was like a fitting
character for that, whereas other characters maybe doesn't make as
much sense, like Captain Marvel or something. You're never gonna
take her down if you're just like a low level
power level. But for for Craven, it makes a lot
of sense for him to get taken out easily.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that arrow is not gonna take out Captain Marvel.
You know, like even if she's not paying attention, she
just got like the.
Speaker 3: Stringth Calypso's stands no chance against.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the the foreigner. He was. He was interesting and
he's probably the most interesting villain out of all the
others in this movie. And when he really gets to
shine when he hits that serum into Craven. I really
like that. I felt like I was defoe like in
that meme like gift like looking up because when those
spiders are coming down, I'm in the reclining seats. I
was like, holy fuck, Like that was definitely very freaky.
But just they they did a really good job with
that whole scene, because you think that Craven's got him
and is punching the shit out of him, and then
all of a sudden it changes to this log and
he just walks up behind him, Like, man, this guy's
just on like a Scarecrow level from DC, Like he's
just totally fucking with him, and this is really cool.
Uh my cal is that? I feel like the one, two,
three just got a little bit too repetitive. Uh one
too many times. I think it was cool, like.
Speaker 3: He counted, I would agree with you, but I think three.
Speaker 2: God three, motherfucker. That was another.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many times where he didn't
need to just like teleport behind a guy just to
like kill him or just to wait for the guy
to turn around and face him just to shoot him.
I mean, he could have just pulled like he just
said one and just pulled the gun and just like
shoot the guy.
Speaker 2: But it's as he's very dramatic.
Speaker 1: He is dramatic, Like it's just like not his calling card,
but like his routine. He has to make sure they
snap out of it and then turn around so they
make an eye to eye. It's a weird thing. But yeah,
he was cool. But yeah, ultimately he he got hawk eyed, so.
Speaker 3: Well hawkeye is not usually yeah, going for like impaled headshot.
He's more but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I kind of want to talk about uh
the brother here and then how I just could not
be pulled out from the fact that now he did
you you didn't see Gladiator too, did you, Koklan? Because
it's the same actor.
Speaker 4: No. I went with a buddy from work that's seeing
Gladiator and he like right away he's like, oh, that
guy's in Gladiator too, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: And so that role completely just pulled me out it
because I feel like at the start he's very similar
in how he's just like cowering and and all these
like just how he's acting, especially when Russell Crowe is around, and.
Speaker 3: I love that kind of loose Gladiator connection, you know,
Russell Crowe and him, even though they weren't in the
same Gladiator movie, but I was really digging when they
had scenes together. I just I don't know. I'm sure him,
being a young actor, probably loved Gladiator as a kid.
Now he's like in these movies with these people. I'm
sure he was like fan boying a little bit after
he's I don't know when this would have been filmed
in relation to Gladiator too, but I'm sure that was
a cool moment for him.
Speaker 4: I think this guy was born after Gladiator came out too,
like me, he was born after two thousands.
Speaker 1: So Russell Crow's like giving him advice, like, oh, if
you want to be successful and.
Speaker 3: Gladiator, if you want to have a lifelong career like
me where I'm in to the Popes, Exorcist and crazy.
Speaker 4: He's got his Russian accent, you gotta start working in
Russian accent. Yeah, I uh, it's just funny because you're
just talking about Gladider. I feel like every time, like
Russell Crow would be just doing a certain line about
you have to be a man and you know, man up,
don't be weak.
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, man, this guy was in Gladiator.
Speaker 4: How far we've come, like like just just thinking of
like Gladiator one and how fucking emotional that movie gets
with this character and how great those scenes are and
how good he is, just like and like, you know,
I'm not going to criticize the specific well yeah, maybe
I will, but just it felt like an incredibly different jump.
Speaker 2: It's been many years, as.
Speaker 4: We're talking, since since Gladiator one, but uh you know
who read who?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the foreigners and then who's the brother brother?
Speaker 1: The brother?
Speaker 2: Damn see there lose my way already, But.
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, I really really really didn't like this whole dynamic.
You like, you guys brought up just the whole the trio,
I guess of of the two brothers and the dad,
and I think I just hated the whole family dynamic honestly,
Like I hated the opening, I hate the young stuff.
I just really didn't like it. And then the younger
brother he just felt like Reek from Game of Thrones
when he's just like a castrated, like weak individual that
just has like no confidence.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I just hated it.
Speaker 4: And I also knew that we were like, at some
point in this movie, whether it's at the end or during,
He's gonna do like a villain thing where he is
like becoming the chameleon.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I just fucking mate this so much.
Speaker 4: I know it's coming. I know this is the end
of Sony, so I don't have to worry about well,
not the end of Sony, but you know this universe.
I was just I don't know, I was cringing before
it happened, and when it happened, you know, we'll talk
about it, but I was I was cringing during and yeah,
I just really didn't like. I didn't even like the
dynamic between Dmitri and Craven. It felt like Craven just
totally fucked over his brother by running away and he
like comes back every birthday, but like it's just such
a fucked up, weird dynamic amongst like him and the dad,
and it is just it was so just messy, I
think all of it that it just brought down pretty
much everyone that was involved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I liked it until the one year later sequence
when he takes the villain turn. That's that did not
work for me at all, and I didn't feel like
we were really building towards that. Obviously, we had many
sequences where he felt, I don't know, disrespected or he
was trying to he was trying to stand up against
his father, but he also still loved his father and
respected him given all that, which is kind of like
a bit of like hostage syndrome, I feel like a
little bit. And I thought that dynamic was interesting to
a certain extent, like just the differences that he had
with his father versus versus surgee there. So I like
that stuff. I think they could have dug into it more,
but I don't think I really wanted them too. I
think it was done just enough. And yeah, I think it,
like it's kind of an interesting storyline for him, that
you know, just this macho energy, you gotta be a hunter,
you got to take out the biggest game in the world, like,
and he just was not that kind of person and
said he went to the arts and he wanted to
become a musician and own a club, and like he
is achieving and doing those things doing by his own
bootstraps or did his dad just give him a bunch
of money. I don't really know why. It doesn't really matter.
It doesn't really matter, I guess, but I kind of
like that dynamic and I thought him, I thought the
two had a good chemistry. I am kind of a
little biased because I love this actor Fred I forget
his last name, but plays the brother who is you
know in White Lotus. That's why I just love his
character in White Lotus. He's so fun in that. And
so even in Gladiator too, where I didn't love the
writing of the character, I still liked him for the
most part. And it's kind of the same case here
until once again, that very ending sequence I love for
like half this movie, like all the action sequences, he's
just wearing like that light blue like turtle neck sweater.
That was like such a funny costume choice. And he
is a very goofy guy to me, and like all
these roles, he just has like a goofy energy to him,
so that was kind of very fitting. But yeah, the
the chameleon stuff, it was kind of weird. I like,
for the first while, I was like, whoa, because he
has like the voice thing. He's like able to modulate
his voice really well. And then his dad's like he's
kind of a Camelle and I'm like, oh, are we
going the Chameleon are out here? But it's like this
is a different version of Chameleon where he doesn't do
like the Mystique transformations and he just does voices or something.
But it clearly shows at the end that he was
still like getting these injections or whatever it was, so
it hadn't quite built to that level yet And by
the end of the movie one year later, it's like
fully taken form and he can transform into people. So
I think that's cool. Like I've been wondering, like, where
where's Chameleon? Why haven't they done him in live action yet?
It's such a versatile character, obviously, as we've seen all
the X Men movies with Mystique. It's like with that
kind of character, you can just do some really fun
stuff messing with the viewer, you know, as we're watching
it and not knowing who is who, who's real and whatnot.
But yeah, I do feel like the villain turn wasn't
really justified for me at the end. I think he
made some interesting points of the way he talks about,
how well, are you any different than our father? If
you like had this hit done on him from like
a lion or a bear. I guess like that that
was kind of an interesting dynamic, but that kind of
feels like anything in the one year later sequence feels
like something that would like in a sequel. But they
kind of just jammed like ten minutes as a sequel
in here, even though we're never gonna get one. So
that stuff just felt like really underbaked, And I don't
know if I would have liked it more if they
just did it more as like a tease and kind
of hinted at maybe he was going down a darker path.
But the fact that he's like, oh yeah, I'm like
fully in the world of crime now and I'm just
gonna like do this stuff seemed like a little like
Jump the Shark sort of moment in terms of the
absurdity of it. I did like the look of the chameleon.
I mean, it's hard to do it wrong when it's
just like a guy who has like silver fleshment and
looks like an alien. But I think they did a
good job of making that look correct.
Speaker 4: But yeah, they have like one brief moment when Craven
Link defeats Rhino that he's like gonna shoot him, and
then it's like this is a new brother, and it's
like again, like there's no point throughout the movie that
he's like has these villain tendencies. So it's just like,
what the fuck is even happening here, Like it seems.
Speaker 3: Like Craven even talks him down in that moment too,
So yeah, I feel like it's kind of inconsistent with
the arc that we're building for him.
Speaker 2: And like, I think it just makes so much more
sense to have of I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 4: It kind of translates into like just my overall thoughts
with the plot and what I think this movie could
have been so much better if it was just simplified
of really not even having the rhino dynamic, Like you
could have just had the main threat and really the
only threat being Russell Crowe like the Father, and like
it would have been so much more enticing if like
the Final Showdown, it's it's it's Dema Dimitri about to
like do that to the dad, like shoot him because
he's just been abusing him his whole life, right, Like
he's so pathetic and like weak because of what his
dad has like raising him up to be, right, like
he's never You're never gonna be good enough, You're always weak,
can't defend yourself. He's just a bully to him his
whole life, and you don't even get any resolution with that,
Like he's literally defending his dad's actions. By the end
of it, after the one year later, he says that
right like, oh, like like you're.
Speaker 2: Not as good as Dad or Pop.
Speaker 1: Geez.
Speaker 2: I can't even get the line because it's just so terrible.
Speaker 4: So I I really was upset that that was just
not addressed at all. He's just like a victim of
his father and like very much Stockholm syndrome of just
like defending him to the end, and it just it's
like nothing out of that. So I was really just
upset with that whole thing. And then it felt just
so shoehorned and very sequelly, like I liked your your
just name for.
Speaker 2: It, I guess because it just felt weird.
Speaker 4: It felt like a little epilogue at the end, and
it felt like something that you could have gotten in
a sequel. I'm not I don't want a sequel, but
it just felt like it was just pieced on there,
intact on there. And yeah, and then like when you
when he's about to shoot Rhino. It just felt so
like undeserved and yeah, it was. Ah, I didn't like
it at all.
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of a repeated consistent thing
throughout this movie as things are left unfinished, and it's
it's not great that they do that with so many
different narratives. So when you look at yeah, the brother here, Dimitri,
it's just it's kind of shocking that they would jump
a year ahead, Like I feel like, Okay, if they're
gonna do this and they're trying to showcase him as
the villain, this is clearly them trying to allude to
a future for this character and this franchise. But especially
when Craven's like, oh, you know, I can't let you
do that, off to go, I'll stop you. Yeah, yah yaha.
I think that if you acts that whole sequence of
it being a year, you do something much more closer
to the present. And on top of that, if it
is a year, why did Craven fuck off for a
year and leave his brother alone in the wake of
all this chaos to just go see a fucked up
doctor and get weird experimental drug surgery done to change
his skin like Craven should have been there and had
been monitoring him, because his brother should not have been
put in control of this empire. There's just a lot
of questionable things and Cravens just making mistakes left, right
and center.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you would think that, Yeah, you would think that
his list at the end of this movie is still
like a huge ass list. So he's like presumably still
like working and stuff. And you would think a lot
of those would be connections to his father's because the
father that's before the one year later jump right, it
must be yeah, so yeah, you would think that would
be like, yeah, he would be more involved there or
see some of that stuff. Now, obviously the brother was
already starting the treatment before before the one year leader
Later sequence, because you could do the voice modulation there,
but he hadn't gone like full fully off the deep
end there, you know.
Speaker 2: The voice moduling. I thought that's something he could always
do because when he was a kid, he did.
Speaker 1: He could do it as a kid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what did he what did he do as a kid?
Speaker 1: Like voices?
Speaker 4: Yeah, he like he like does Russell Crowe's voice, and
like when they're coming downstairs, he has Russell Crowe calls
in Surge Day and then he's going down He's.
Speaker 3: Like, hmm, I wonder if it's like I wonder if
it's like a unlocking the full potential of his power thing,
and maybe he already had some special power because like
that's the thing, right, It's not like the actor is
doing an impression. They just straight up take that actor's
voice and like you use it like even before the powers. So, okay,
you guys are making me three rethink that a little bit.
I kind of forgot about that scene when he was
a kid. That's interesting. Do you think that the The
New York Doctor was like alluding to a specific character
or is it just like because the fact that it's
New York is like, okay, well let's connect. That's definitely
in the spidy realm.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, they said the full name and Miles of Warren.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought they were going to say doctor Connors, but.
Speaker 4: So did I because like the felt very yeah that
was the other one, of course, doctor Michael Morvius. So
but the skin effect felt very like crocodile, So I
thought it was gonna be Kurt.
Speaker 2: Connor's but interesting like Miles Brown's.
Speaker 1: No, okay, study genetics under the tutelage is the high evolutionary.
Speaker 3: Uh interesting similar power situation unlocking.
Speaker 1: The full fell in love with Gwen Stacy hasn't yes.
Speaker 3: Is there a hero name for that character?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 1: I think not a hero, a villain. It looks like
he took the name the Jackal.
Speaker 3: The jack I'm not familiar with. The Jackal looks like
it sounds like the Prowler though similar to the Prowl similar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear the soundtrack already.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Interesting. Hmm, Well please let us know the comments.
What's your theory there, Like in terms of the power
is like when that came to be? It might it
probably is just in the previous year, I guess, but yeah,
it is. It is interesting that he was able to
do that as a as a kid. So I don't
know the origin. I feel like whenever I've seen Chameleon
and like animated series and stuff, it's just like there's
no origin stories. Just Chameleon already could Chameleon himself. There
was never the full setup of where how he got
the he got the powers, but that was just, I guess,
an interesting thing. In general, this movie felt a lot
more mystical in general than like anything else in the
Sony Verse where all the venom stuff, like it makes
sense because it comes from like that alien gouh. But
I feel like in this like with with like this
magic potion that we have and like the foreigner who
knows where his powers come from chameleon like before maybe
even the injections, he had like some sort of supernatural
power and obviously Yah Craven gets the potion powers Rhino's situation.
It just feels like there's a lot more, a lot
more characters Like I feel like all these other movies
have like one or two like the villain and the
or sometimes not even the villain, like Madame Webb. Doesn't
the villain not have like any powers whatsoever. He's just
like a guy.
Speaker 2: It's Echil Sims.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I think he's got powers. He got like Spider Man
super strength powers and stuff like that. Doesn't he?
Speaker 3: Oh? Does he? I don't know. I can't remember.
Speaker 2: I can't remember anything.
Speaker 3: A few months ago.
Speaker 1: You meant so you mentioned Rhino. This character I know
is my God. The only other interpretation that I've had
the experience of knowing is the one from The Amazing
Spider Man two with that Rhino in the mech suit.
I've never encountered him in the games or anything like that,
so I can't speak to it. But this version I
was not driving with as him being like a main,
main boss, and yeah, he was cool when he like
let his rhino self take over. I thought that was
kind of fine. But there's one scene I can't remember
what was the trigger for him or whatnot. You get
him at the earlier earlier on the movie in the
intro talking Russell Crow and Russell Crowe just like belittles him,
and this very much seemed like an Iron Man's three
kind of thing with an alidren Killian kind of the
hair actually similar hair. Yeah, and then he comes back
and he's genetically modified himself ready to take on the family.
So it's very similar in how it's narrative is set up.
But for me, though, when he was told some bit
of bad news and he's just sitting there and he's
like ah for like thirty fucking seconds, just loved that.
Speaker 3: That had me and the whole theater we were up
in arms. Everyone was in in that moment that.
Speaker 4: I felt like the only person actually laughing. I feel
like people were just kind of like shocked. That's what's happening, but.
Speaker 3: The completely quiet the rest of the movie except for
one guy who did like a loud ass fart, but
like that scream got got the theater to pumping so nice.
Speaker 1: It was just so fleeting moment weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think it was like an actor choice,
director choice, Like I was it in the script? I
really I need to know. I need to know who's
I could believe any.
Speaker 1: Of those three options. That's the most terrible thing about
this movie.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the actor is though from anything else.
I didn't recognize that.
Speaker 3: He looks kind of like the generic guy you've seen
around before. But like I can't, I can't put a
name to a face in terms of the other movies.
But yeah, Ryano, what a character here. I kind of
I kind of enjoyed a little bit just because it
was like so dumb. It was like so bad. It's
good to some extent for me, a little bit, like
he was he was better than some other villains I've
seen in the in the Sony verse, I'll put it
that way, not like in actual quality, but just in
terms of like how silly and stupid it was. And
Taylor's having a crazy.
Speaker 1: God, do you know do you guys know who he is? Oh?
Speaker 2: My, we just said God.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna take you back to uh Jurassic Park three.
A guy named Billy.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, are you fucking kidding me? I don't think,
Oh my god, Billy. He's got a lucky it's got
his lucky strap. It is. I can totally see his face, Kate.
I knew his face was familiar somewhere. That is, So
that's nice. You should have grabbed those wraptor eggs. My god, I.
Speaker 3: Don't think I've seen I don't think i've seen Dress
Park three.
Speaker 2: Before.
Speaker 3: I did the first episode of that retro and then
just did not do the rest.
Speaker 2: Place to jump out.
Speaker 3: I thought the another inspired choice by the costume designers here,
because like as I mentioned, I love the blue turtleneck
sweater that my Boyfred had. But to give the character
of Rhino, who is you know, only actually Rhino that
you know and love in like the last Battle the
rest of it, he's just like a guy. But I
think the decision to give him like this small little
backpack that was really tight. The whole movie was so dumb.
It just looked so bad. But I loved it. It
just had me chuckling every time I saw him. Like,
I don't know whose idea that was, but like if they,
I guess they really wanted a reason to explain that
he always had this like iv thing going into him.
But like, as I said, this movie is so mystical
that you could have easily not had that at all,
or like made it really small and we would believe
it because Craven took like one sip of this potion
and now he has powers for the rest of his life.
So the fact that he had to have this stupid
little backpack on to get this constant ivy was just
absolutely ridiculous, and not like that it was ever a
plot point. It's not like that's how he became Rhino
because someone ripped the backpack off him and now he
can't control it anymore. He just like took it off
at he would like unplug it and then take the
backpack off. It was like so weird the way it
was done. But yeah, once again, crazy crazy concept. Whoever
came up with that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I call them my feedbags. Yeah, I hate I
hated this character so so much. I was very shocked
about his screech that he did. There's a couple other
moments that I think he just did something that I
was not expecting. So in that sense, it was like, wow, okay,
well this is at least a little bit memorable. But yeah,
I really didn't like the whole just choice about his
his character and his whole whoever's decision it was, whether
you know, Taylor listed all the options. I was not
a fan of it at all. And like when it
opens up, like after after he has the long hair,
when we come back to him and he's just like
chasing his dog on all fours, because like I kind
of recognized him as that character. I'm like, man, I
hope he just gets popped right here by like Russell Crowe,
Like I I just hate this character already. And then no,
he's he's our right now. We're gonna be sticking with
this guy for the entire film. And yeah, I didn't
like the whole thing. Him just taken over his feedbags
was weird. Yeah, the big like the backpack, the super
tight backpack. It's definitely it's different, and yeah it's it's
more memorable, but uh, I just I just didn't like.
It's not menacing, it's not menacine at all.
Speaker 2: I know he was. He was a very strange guy.
Speaker 4: And then yeah, I guess the rhino effect, like at
the very end, it looked not as bad as maybe
I would have thought, because my first experience with this
character would have been from like the sixties cartoon show,
like like like the comic book one, where he's just
like he's just like in a costume. He just got
his head and he just has the rhino suit that
like that is what he is. And then that version
is pretty much was carried over like the PS one
Spider Man game and other Spider Man games is pretty
much that version. So that's always been my kind of
Rhino in my mind at least. And then yeah, Amazing
Spider Man two. That just that just blew my mind.
I couldn't believe that they did that. And then I
liked when he was the rhydo but it just like
the human version of him, just like all like the
quirky mannerisms and everything. It just wasn't really hidden for
me at all, and it was a lot of him
in this movie. And because I wasn't liking it, I
just felt like I was just like arms Cross pouting
like for a lot of it, and then checking my
phone on like run times and oh my god, we're
only forty minutes in. Okay, okay, last Sony movie. You
can do this, Kirkle, Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Come on.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the really odd part because, as I mentioned,
like I liked that Craven just lost to the foreigner
and then he kind of had this downfall. I feel
like the way that they wrote how Rhino got defeated
was really weird that he just, yeah, I had this
one like hole on him. I guess that you could
stab into I don't know it, just like for a
video game, that makes sense, but for a movie, I
maybe wanted something a bit smarter because obviously his skin
was impenetrable to all the blades that Craven had, even
though he kept trying more blades. Like I feel like,
after three or four, Brooke, I'm like, okay, you could
cool it with the blades. These are clearly not working.
So I think I would have liked a more clever
solution there. But like I guess, Craven's not really that
kind of guy. He's a very brute force kind of guy.
He's not really out smart or at least this version
of Craven's not outsmarting people at any point. He's just
he's just tougher.
Speaker 4: I suppose it very much felt like it was gonna
be the feedbags, because we went through the whole explanation
of this is what takes away the power. He explained
it to Dimitri. Dmitri's right there. You could do the
brothers pair up right here, have Dmitri, hey, plug this in,
pass it to him, does the exact same scene, does
the one line, you know, he's choking him out and
then he just stabs him.
Speaker 2: But he's got the feedbag, goes human form.
Speaker 4: Then you can even have you know, you can bring
Dmiti with the gun and he's the one that shoots
him or something, and then that's when you have Craven like, no,
don't do it, other than he's already fucking dead because
Craven did all by himself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh sorry, good point. Because Demetrio is the one
who's getting like, it's like, what's what's the word? He
was he was just getting all that info from him.
He was the one learning about all these bags.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's like, why did we go through all
that explaining, like explain it if we didn't even really
I don't know, I guess just to explain how he
gets the powers.
Speaker 1: But he reminded me of like reverse like Baine, but
in the reverse from Batman and Robin, where you hit
the button and he just turns into Bane. In this
case it's, yeah, the opposite of that, because Unplugs is
like his meal.
Speaker 2: Sack and Batman.
Speaker 4: He just calls it his venom right like it's it's
like a yeah, it's funny crossover venom.
Speaker 3: M hm.
Speaker 1: Oh, well, you know what, Let's take another ad break
here and then we'll we'll keep on hunting. So we'll
be right back and we are back.
Speaker 3: Papa, let's go hunting, and let's go hunting. In the
Origin story about OK, talk about that a little bit.
I don't think I really have much to say about
the secretes. It went on way too long. I think
they think think it was maybe important. It sets up
quite a few things. Of course, it explains how Craven
gets his power from the potion. There, it sets up
the connection between him and clips So which ends up
being a really important connection later on. It gives you
that stuff with the with the brother and then explains
why his brother would be so upset with him when
he finally does leave. Leave him there. It sets up
a lot with the father and that kind of relationship
dynamic from all three of them. So it does a
lot for the story. But I do feel like it
should have been trimmed down a little bit, and it
was just not a very exciting sequence either. I guess
it is the other side of it, and I don't
really think that the younger actor versions did a poor
job at all with the acting, but yeah, I think
it just should have been tightened up a little bit.
I feel like that's just gonna be my criticism of
like every Compook movie for I don't know a while.
We're just so indate with these movies that like we
got to speed through these origin story things, especially when
they're very uninteresting like this one. Like I said, it
does lay the groundwork for a lot of stuff, but
when it doesn't really build that much at the end
of the day, it's like, Okay, we don't need to
do all this, so could have used it a shorter
version of that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I completely agree with the length. It felt way
way too long and it went on so long that
I actually was like, when does when do we get
erent Tator Johnson, Like it seems like this guy is
going to just carry us into the modern day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then.
Speaker 4: He he gets to the point where he's like kind
of becoming craven. We blink and it just Errantator Johnson.
And what we got in between was sixteen years later,
and it like it, it just felt so weird to me,
where it's like, Okay, has all he'd been doing just
been assassinating people for the last sixteen years and that's
how he just grew into like I guess, so it
felt like it could have been like literally a four
year jump, right, not sixteen years. Like Kay, the younger
actor was be a little bit scrawnier than what ATJ is,
but like, fuck, they looked pretty similar in age. I
know that Anytinge Judge is over thirty, but I feel like,
I don't know, like not sixteen year difference between the two.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: So that was really just shocking, I think, to go
from the young version to that, like it felt like
it could have been much much younger of an actor
maybe to make that jump.
Speaker 2: I don't know. It just for me, it felt way
too close together. There.
Speaker 4: The other thing that I just really I guess it
just kind of planted the seeds for my hatred towards
the dynamic between Dimitri and Serge. Was when like we
see all these scenes where Russell Crowe is just a
piece of shit dad, right, like he just my sons
are weak unless they're like me, we're gonna go hunt
your mom's suicide herself. You can't see her because she suicided,
Like no funerals for people that did that, even though
he's like the reason why she probably ran and like
mentally was unwell. So yeah, just setting up that dynamic, yes,
Like I think that was good. I actually really liked
the like the acting of the young actors in that sequence,
Like I thought they both were handling the news in
different ways which would have made sense for their characters.
Like it seemed like Serge was really trying to like
stay composed, but it was obviously just like such a
shock to him. And then Dimitri, yeah, like obviously very devastated,
but like it's very I don't know, just they portrayed
the grief really well and in unique ways, as if
they're not just copying each other like the actors, So
that was really just noticeable for me, I think it
was a great setup for like the brother the brotherly
bond because they're just both victims of kind of their
dad's abuse and just the fucked up dynamic that they have.
Speaker 2: And that's why it.
Speaker 4: Felt so like a major betrayal for Craven to be
running away right like like he's completely isolating his brother.
It seems like he's been his brother's guard like his
whole life and now he's just leaving his brother and
it it feels like something that is unforgivable. And like
when we just do the sixteen year jump, he's like
still just texting him and like like shouting out right
like his brother calls him as Russell Crowe. It's like, ah,
just kidding, oh brother, When am I gonna see you again?
And it's just like what the fuck do they like
play Xbox and Warzone every weekend? These two, Like it
just seems like they've been best buds their whole life,
and it takes away so much from that impactful emotional
breakaway like it should have been. Like the next time
we see Chameleon, he is like an assassin or something
like like he is his dad's perfect weapon that he
wanted Craven to be and that would have just been
so much more intriguing than Reek, who we meet, you know,
just fucking doing his Tom Petty whatever the hell impersonations
that he's doing, and it is, Yeah, it's his club.
Now it's his dad's club. Like his whole life is
just under his dad's thumb. And yeah, I really hated
how they were, Like, Okay, there might have been some
like held back anger that that has towards them, but
it just felt like they were brothers. And it seems
like he sees them every single year on his birthday, right,
like they even say that, So I'm assuming it's been
that way for sixteen years.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I I'm so upset with that.
Speaker 1: That applies to the father too. I thought we're gonna
get this big review when the father, like Russell cor
finally sees Craven. But no, he just walks in like ah,
both my sons together. It gives like a bottle and
they have a drink. It's like, well, this is just
so mad son. You won't hug me, but you just
shake my head. It's just such a lame. I thought
it would be a very climactic high end moment for
our characters. But no, like you said, yeah, just there.
He's seeing them every year. He's like, oh, Craven's probably like, oh,
I'm here for this. You know, I'm I'm traveling the world.
I'm here, I'm in Russia, I'm over here and you know, China,
and I'm in Japan and this guy's just still in
his club, just doing his own thing. But sorry.
Speaker 3: One quick thing on the club that I found very
funny is like, uh, Sergey Hits it's up his brother
in the house and he's like, oh, is that what
you're gonna be dressed up as for my party? And
he's like, yeah, I guess, so we can just stay in.
He's like, no, we have to go out. It's my birthday,
on your birthday, we can stay in. Then they like
go to the club and they're the only ones there
and it's just the two of them, and it's like, what,
why didn't you just stay at home and like your
dad would come visit you? Like I thought they were
gonna go with like this huge thrasher, but like it
was just the two of them anyway, So that was
very unnecessary. Should talk of his brother.
Speaker 4: There there's two people leaving though, right, Craven had enough
time to just totally fuck up that whole guy.
Speaker 1: Oh that was funny the fidelity situation.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was so goofy.
Speaker 1: Later the moment too, when he kind of like rebels
against his dad when he's in that origin moment and
his dad just has a fucking mountain in this room.
But he gets so pissed and he yells at his
dad and he storms off. He goes upstairs to his
bedroom and his brother Dimitrius walks, you like, what's going on?
And then it was just the long shot of just
Craven just tryut like oh, just like fucking like puts
his hand like on him and just pushes him and
slams the door. It was so fucking goofy. I goes laughing.
Speaker 3: And then even more to that, like then he does
this whole thing where he's stealthying out of the house
and like the thing crumbles and he falls to the ground.
Then he's leaving. It's on like his brother was just outside.
It's like, why didn't you just walk up the front door.
Why do you have to sneak out? This doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, this weird choices, weird word choices goofy uh.
Speaker 3: I just have two more things here. I think one
set piece we haven't really talked about. It's kind of
a minor one, but it's like the Turkish monastery where
he goes when he finds the true location of Dima Uh.
I don't know. I had some fun with that, just
him like scaling these buildings and like doing the stealth
stuff using the darts to like knock people out. I
love when he's like going up the stairs behind those
two guys and like first they crouches and then he
like goes into the wall. I'm like, there's no way
that would work, but it kind of just shows like
how it's.
Speaker 4: How like the arcane stealth mechanics work, right, You're crawling
right behind them, like there's no way that they don't
feel my presence, right, and.
Speaker 3: They like they turn their head a little bit, but
then they just go back to their NPC guard duty.
So I like that sequence. I thought the part when
when when the foreigner gets there and he finds the dart,
I think it's it's cool in theory what he does there.
How he's like, oh, this dart has like this ancient
like flower liquid on it that is only grown in
like a one comet, like one kilometer radius on the
whole planet, and that's how they find his base. Is
like that is a massive leap in logic. But you know,
like they should have like, okay, that's how they used
to like step one to get close to him and
then they could narrow it down.
Speaker 1: But it was goofy.
Speaker 3: I think it was like there was an interesting concept there,
but then it was just a little too a little
too cheesy. But I I overall, I like the look
at that set that set piece, not location, and I
don't know, I had fun with it for what it was.
It was very short as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I liked.
Speaker 1: You said you have another point there.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I guess my one last thing is and you
mentioned it briefly there. Taylor was once foreigner hit them
with that poison dar and he's hallucinating the spiders are
coming down to me. That is like a tasteful connection
to the Spider Man content that this like character kind
of originates from. We've seen some really cheesy stuff, like
all the way back to Morbius. Remember we like in
the trailers that were like Spider Man wanted posters on
the wall and then they cut them from the final movie.
They weren't even in there. And then like Madam Webb
really went overboard with some of these these connections there
that just feel like, oh, you guys just want Spider
Man and here so bad, don't you. But I actually
thought this was like a really good one. This is
something that like when we get to the sequel, if
that were to happen in an alternate universe, in a multiverse,
and you have this and he like thinks back on
this moment when he was really freaked out by these spiders,
that could be some interesting connection there. But yeah, I
thought that was kind of tasteful and like a nice
use of that without it just being like a too
cheesy of connection or making you think of like, man,
I prefer like in that scene, I wasn't thinking, man,
I wish this was a Spider Man movie, and the
way that we've wished that for so many of these
other things. So I thought that was that was well done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, that's actually a really really good point
to mention there. There was a lot of daily Bugle
shots too.
Speaker 3: Oh I miss those. Actually, there was two.
Speaker 4: Of them that I noticed when the Eclipso was like
just I mean, oh my god, you just reminded me. Actually,
So Craven finds her at the funeral right for her
friend's Okay, yeah, he's the Hunter. He finds people, and
then they like they like chat like this is what
I do. I murder people. Do you want to help
me murder people? Like got to think about that. I'm
a lawyer, you know, but I'll think about it. And
then the scene is just her like doing research on
the Hunter and like, wow, this guy kills people, and
then we and then like the next shot is just
her meeting up with him again.
Speaker 2: It's like, man, I looked into.
Speaker 4: You like it was just such a weird like jump
and I felt like multiple times in this movie where
fast traveling, like like we don't really even have to
explain about how we are getting to places, and it
seems like we're jumping pretty far away, like you.
Speaker 2: Know here in North America.
Speaker 4: I kind of just know my general geography. I know
some things in Europe, but like I don't think like
it's that easy to just bounce from like like the
Siberia too.
Speaker 1: These guys on plane, he's got Ellie just.
Speaker 4: On standby is she's like an NPC character just always
ready to go. You know, you hit one button and
she's just there, ready to go, and you never find
out any more about her.
Speaker 2: She's just ready to go. She's there, and uh.
Speaker 4: So that it was noticeable for me, I think just
because I was already disliking everything that was going on.
It's like, I'm not gonna fucking like, this isn't gonna
be the one thing that ruins the movie for me, these.
Speaker 2: Weird logistics of travel.
Speaker 4: But the other one that I just kind of burst
out laughing on or at was when he runs away
from home and he just goes to a ship and
he has this dialogue with again, like a very.
Speaker 2: NPC type character.
Speaker 4: He's like, so you run away, Yeah, get on, brother,
Like let's go. Let's just fucking go. You don't have
to pay me anything. I'll just take you on. I'll
just do like an illegal stowaway situation for no no payment,
like I have no attachment to you, like, yeah, let's
just do it.
Speaker 2: And we never see that guy again.
Speaker 4: Like it's just it's just so simple and easy how
this stuff happens, Like whether he has to find Clipso
right away or we already talked about it. But when
Clipso just has all these people for information, like instantly,
I have no cases going on right now, I am
ready to just be your person to help you murder people.
It like it was just kind of comedic that they
didn't even really attempt to explain any of these things.
It's just uh no, that's that's not even bothernsying that
people won't focus on that. Well, the love are R
rated whole, like like fight scenes, right, they're gonna level
the violence and brutality of this movie has, which is
extremely tamed and barely even R rated.
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna stop now. It enough negativity for anything.
Speaker 1: There is. So there there is an interesting thing that
was happening here where this humming kept reoccurring throughout the movie,
this humming tune.
Speaker 2: Do you guys remember that this is his mom right,
That's what it was supposed to be.
Speaker 4: I would imagine when because when he first runs away
goes to the hidden camp, he hears it and then
he's just dreaming about it.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it probably is actually humming it in retrospect,
I shouldn't connect that dot. But the tune was so familiar.
I was like Okay, I've heard this theme before this
this humming. It's the Huntresses theme that she hums in
Dead by day all. Yeah, dead by Daylight. So you
guys know that Huntress character of the villain, you the
exact same husre, And so I looked into it further
and found that, Okay, this because the Huntress is a Russian.
Speaker 2: Hunter, so there's that.
Speaker 1: But it's actually old lulla by named by you, but
you ski by you, and it's old Russian la la
bye ah. So it's just I thought, yeah, that was
pretty pretty neat. I'm gonna play I have a little
bit of a snake snippet here I'm gonna play for you.
Speaker 3: Guys, copyrighted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2: That's terrifying.
Speaker 3: Funny. That reminded me of one one thing I love
when he's like in sleeping at his brother's apartment and
he just like he hears just like the air conditioner.
I thought that was the sound of like people coming
to invade the house, but no, it's just air conditioner.
And like he can't stand like any technology stuff like that,
Like he has to go sleep in the grass. So
that was funny.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the one scene that actually got like a like
it was a tempting comedy and it worked for me.
Was when he's going for the elevator and then he
like throws the blade gets in there. He's like, I
was trying to get the door for you know, you weren't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's like, what do you do? I'm a hunter?
Speaker 2: What do you mean? People look, I'm just looking right
at them. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1: Cool. Well, final thoughts ratings close it.
Speaker 3: Up, chart me down for a five out of ten
on this. Yeah, I think there's enough in here that
I enjoyed. Like I just as a tailor, as you said,
like just turn off your brain, you know, theater experience.
I had a good enough time. But obviously when we
break it down here, like the story kind of sucks,
the writings really bad. But yeah, there's some action. I like,
some characters and dynamics that worked for me, some fun
like weird characters like the Foreigners definitely a highlight for me.
So ATJ does a good job and bring them back
in the MCU Sure why not throw them in there?
I don't care. So yeah, I think the five's fair.
If anything, it's generous, So I'm feeling generous tonight.
Speaker 4: I'm not feeling generous tonight. I'm gonna dick a good
one and a half.
Speaker 2: On this one. I don't know, I was thinking about
a one just because this made me so angry, like
like and again, like I don't know what all these
factors are.
Speaker 4: Just maybe it's just because I thought my bar was
so low, but it just wasn't low enough, and it
really my bar was.
Speaker 3: Super low after seeing the Rotten Tomatoes earlier today, like
this movie is gonna be atrocious, and it was slightly
better than I think.
Speaker 4: I've just been getting mad too about movie budgets lately
and just thinking about.
Speaker 3: You're an Oscar now, so you can't Sony Verse stuff.
Speaker 4: Just just seeing that studios are allowing those types of
numbers and releasing stuff like this. It's just like firesome people, man,
like this is this is insane how we're getting to
stuff like this. But yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: Not the actual you know, all the lighting.
Speaker 3: Cruise costs atj fire the animators, fire the best boys.
Speaker 2: I'm just angry and he did right now.
Speaker 4: You know, come next week, I'll probably forget about this
entire experience.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the.
Speaker 3: Foreigner wipe your mind a little bit.
Speaker 1: One and a half. Wow. Oh well, I'm gonna I'm
gonna bring us back up a little bit. I'm gonna
I'm gonna pop a You know, I wasn't gonna say six.
I'm gonna go six and a.
Speaker 2: Half, one and a half with the additive number of me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that there's there is some fun in
this movie. But again, a lot of inconsistencies, a lot
of jumps that just leave a lot of holes, and
the pacing was all over the place. But at the
end of the day, I think that it was a
fun enough time in the theater. Again, like I said
at the start, though, I mean, if you've if you've
been listening and you don't care about the spoilers and
you haven't seen it yet, like you don't have to
go see this in theaters. I'm just gonna reaffirm with that,
wait till it comes on streaming at home, because there's
there's no urgency to go see this. Yes, Aaron Taylor Johnson,
he's one of my favorite acts. I think he just
he does a fantastic job in this with what he
can do because the writing is questionable. But I do
think that there are some chemistries in here that do
work really really well, and some things that they really
try to make great, but it just does not it
doesn't take off the landing strip. And it's very unfortunate
that ultimately this is just going to go down as
being a little bit of a I don't want to
say dumpster fire, but not a great ending to what
Sony was trying to create with their own Sony verse.
And it's unfortunate because you know they they were trying
to make something for themselves, but you want to go
out on your own terms, and not going out on
the terms of the fandom just literally forcing you to
close your doors. And that's what is going to happen here. Well,
that's what has happened.
Speaker 4: So I would have walked in like the Beekeeper, you
know that scene Taylor when he goes in with the
gas cans and just burn the whole place down.
Speaker 2: If they were seeing.
Speaker 1: The oh, everyone was like clapping, and then they noticed, like,
who's this guy just standing here?
Speaker 4: Oh man, you're reminded me when when he's walking with
the calypso and that fucking just random Jaguarre just comes
out of the bush and they just wrestle, and like
I was waiting for like a them to like start playing,
you know, as if it's like a like a homie
that he meets up with or and then she.
Speaker 2: Just like fucks off. He's like, yeah, that's what I thought, I'm.
Speaker 4: The hunter, and then she's like, you're so weird, like
you just found that out now, and then they keep walking.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what a.
Speaker 3: Fucking weird Especially if he was established like we've seen him,
can he can lock eyes and like yeah, like that
wolf in the opening sequence, he just like makes the
wolf tame in a second. So I thought he was
gonna do anything other than what actually happened.
Speaker 1: Being tame would have made sense because he even says too,
like I've known her since she was a cub. Yeah,
but she's still she's just she tries to, yeah.
Speaker 3: Kill her. Probably kills the cub's mom and dad or something.
Speaker 1: Probably, Yeah, very weird. But there you have it, Ladies
and gentlemen. Craven review In the books, you boys will
be back for or hear them at some point. If
we got After Nine coming this weekend and create me
Kirkland doing creature commandos, so.
Speaker 2: That'll be a lot of fun, potentially potential solo episode.
Speaker 1: We'll see yeah, so it will be lots lots of
good stuff coming the feeds. Oh yeah, we'll see you
uh in the search car boyebye.
Speaker 4: I can't wait to drop that on Travis on a
cast and he's back.