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Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another episode of

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Geek First Podcast. I am one of your hosts, my

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partner Taylor Field, and I'm joined.

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Speaker 2: By I am the Real Hunter Kirkland Patzer.

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Speaker 3: I am the Foreigner Dyll Muss.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we are here because the very special finale review

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for Sony. I guess I should say we're gonna be

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reviewing Craven the Hunter Tonight, Ladies and gentlemen. Before we

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get into our non spoilers and spoilers thoughts, a couple

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of plugs. You can find this with your Internet connection

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in the search bar. Geek Verse say our own base keepers

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cast our Twitter geek versus our Facebook. Now you have

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to do me a big favor. You have to go

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to the Patreon because you're gonna add free exclusive early content.

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There's so much juicy stuff over there. Go check it out.

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And I also want to shout out our amazing Patroon producers,

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Aaron Braden, April of Darkness, Jack Grant, Mud Sam Super Bad, Mike,

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God Loves Me sixty nine, Jeremy Riyn. You folks are fantastic.

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Keep the lights on. What else is cooking in the

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oven right now?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: My god, million TV shows, million movie reviews. Side Quest

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is gonna have two episodes next week. It's a very

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busy time. I think the only thing people can do

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is subscribe and then they can just see it all

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and they don't have to think about it. They don't think, oh,

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what's coming on one day, Just hit that button and

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then it'll just pop there on your phone, right in

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front of you, and then you can just listen happily.

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Speaker 1: Well said, We'll say I think for you. Kirklandific.

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Speaker 4: My first ever solo review, first ever solo episode that

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I've ever done. Potentially a second one. We'll see if

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that actually happens.

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Speaker 2: We got Dexter.

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Speaker 1: New Blood.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember Original Sin.

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Speaker 4: There you go, Yes, Second Blood, So stay tuned to

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those feeds. I'm not gonna cement in Stone right now

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if I can get crack out a solo review of that,

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but we'll be jumping onto those reviews weekly.

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Speaker 2: They once they do.

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Speaker 1: Yes beautiful, all right, So yes, we're here. We have

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it's now. Sony came forward and basically said they're kind

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of wrapping things up with this movie, and so this

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is kind of end of an era because we've kind

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of gone through so many different Sony Verse Marvel films,

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and it really felt like they were gonna really create

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their own Sandbox and world. But here we are, they're

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closing it out Aaron Taylor Johnson and yeah, so who

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wants to take it away with the non spoilers thoughts.

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Speaker 4: It's funny you mentioned Sandbox felt more like a litter box. Honestly, Oh,

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I was witnessed too. Yeah, I feel like the Sony

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universe as a whole, I'm happy that I can close

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this chapter just because I feel like it peaked on

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the first film, which would have been Venom, and that

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wasn't even like a high peak. It was just like, Okay,

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this is this is not a terrible movie. I quite

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enjoy some aspects to it. And then I just feel

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like every project since, like yeah, I feel I feel

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like every project since has been worse and worse. Like

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I'm I didn't like solidify my Sony rankings or anything

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like that, but yeah, in hindsight, I feel like as

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they went on, it just got worse and worse. And

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I don't know, I had I feel like because I

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had expectations. Solow, It's like they can't really disappoint me

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that much further, and I must say they truly did.

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Was this was an extremely rough movie. I believe that,

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and I just can't believe it's one hundred and ten

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million dollar project. Like I feel like this is just

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such a terrible, terrible production of something of media that

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they put out there, and probably a little bit of

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like some hyperbole in there, but it doesn't seem too

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extreme honestly, Like I feel like the vast majority of

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this movie, I was just really wanting it to get

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just over and done with. And I don't know, I

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try not to be too negative with my reviews. I

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feel like most of my reviews don't usually go that

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hot and heavy, at least to the start. But yeah,

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over two hours for this movie cut like forty minutes. Honestly,

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this could have been so much cleaner as an R

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rated film, too, Like why why was this R rated?

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Speaker 2: Like just shooting themselves in.

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Speaker 4: The foot by limiting the audience, Like the lack of

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interest was already at an all time high I feel for

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this movie and then limiting, you know, a vast majority

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of the audience by making R rate is just crazy

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to me. Aaron Tyler Johnson not terrible, Like definitely, He's

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not the problem of this movie by any means. I

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feel like I really have been liking him lately in

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like in side roles and stuff, so I am kind

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of rooting for the guy and like wanting him to

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get a really good lead role in something I don't know,

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like an ari ast or something like I want to

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see something different than just an action movie because I like,

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like he's he's good in it, but I just think

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I want to see him in a very different type

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of role with a very solid script, like a really

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I don't know, just just solid story. And I knew

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I was going to get that tuned into this, but yeah, yeah,

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there you go. He's not necessarily the lead in that though, right,

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because he is great like as side characters at least

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the last handful of projects that I have seen him in.

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I don't think i've seen kick Ass either, Like I

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don't know, I know, it's like a different era of

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Aaron Taylor Johnson, so like, I don't know how you

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would compare the performances there, but yeah, no, I think

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there were. For me, I felt like this movie was

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majority just like bad in the sense of I'm not

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even like having a fun time laughing at this, like

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it's just like.

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Speaker 2: Actually bad and dry. To get through felt really long.

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Speaker 4: There was some spikes in the uh in like that

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direction of it just being ridiculous, and I just couldn't

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believe what I was seeing. So I was laughing out

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loud for sure at a couple points, but I think

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only one actual joke like like got me like like

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a little chuckle like and I don't know, there was

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like five people in my theater opening night.

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Speaker 2: They didn't even put this in the extreme theater. I

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was kind of shocked. I don't know what I expected.

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Speaker 4: I guess just seeing like what the expectations where numbers

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wise going into the weekend and everything.

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Speaker 2: But I was still just kind of amazed.

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Speaker 4: I walked in there and it's like man, like literally

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two people like this is crazy. And then a couple

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more people came in after and pretty dead crowd. No

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one was really laughing at anything. And yeah, no, it's

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just uh goodbye sony uh whatever we're calling this, and yeah,

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I hardly miss you. Let me sorry for example, So yeah,

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sorry for starting.

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Speaker 2: So negative, but uh, that's kind of how I felt.

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Speaker 3: I mean, is that unsurprising start for a Sony movie

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because we have we got six movies in total, right,

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three the three Venom movies, Web, This and Morebious. Does

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it feel like more or less than that to you guys,

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or like, does it feel like it has been exactly six?

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It feels like more. Yeah, maybe that's just because I

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feel like I'm being tortured when I'm watching these movies.

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Speaker 4: I think for me, it feels like like more when

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you say six, because I just kind of clumped venoms together.

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Speaker 2: So maybe that's the reason.

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Speaker 4: Like I kind of see it as four because it's

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just like four kind of I don't know characters. I

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guess that they're that they're going with, So yeah.

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Speaker 3: I can. I can jump in here next. I mean, yeah, Kirkland,

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Kirkland's all the money here. This is Sony Marvel movie.

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So it's not good. The main thing is that the

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writing is just just awful. That's always it. I almost

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said great there for a second. I don't know how

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that almost slipped out. Yeah, just like very generic dialogue,

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all the one liners from any character. I feel like,

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as far as quips go, this movie is not very quippi.

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But when it is, it's just just generic lines you've

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heard churned out a thousand times from chat GPT or

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something like that. So it's it's a classic in that,

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in that Sony realm. But for some reason I kind

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of had fun with like a lot of this movie.

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I don't know why. There's definitely large swaths I did

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not like the origin story sequence. We'll talk about that.

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And speaking of like where you could have cut Kirkland,

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that was like three times longer than it needed to

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be to get the point across. But then there were

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some other moments and like there were some interesting characters

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in here, a couple villain type guys, one guy in

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particular that I really enjoyed actually not necessarily like killer

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dialogue or anything, but just in terms of like some

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fun visual effects and whatnot. And yeah, I think Aaron

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Taylor Johnson like does a pretty good job here for like,

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for a character that doesn't really have a personality, like,

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he still is fun enough on screen, and I like

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the dynamic he had was with his brother. I thought

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that that was a fun combo and even like with

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their dad, like that whole trio actually like kind of

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worked for me somewhat. I still don't think this is

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a good movie by any means, but I was at

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least able to find some more fun here, and just

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kind of comparing to other ones recently, like Madame Webb

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was almost so bad it was good, you know, just

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because like the dubbing was off and the dialogue was

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so trash that was it was just like I could

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laugh at that one a lot. We talked about the

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first Venom back in the day, like that was a

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hilarious movie in the theater, just making fun of it,

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and I feel like along the way, like Morbius was

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just not fun or so bad as good, Venom three

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was not that. I still haven't seen Venom two. I

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just never never got around to that one, and so

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I feel like this is maybe my favorite of the

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Sony verse, or maybe I like Venom one more, but

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I just haven't rewatched that movie since it came out,

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so I'm very fuzzy on it. But with all that said,

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I'm never gonna watch this again. And when it comes

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to Golden Geeks or even the MC or the Marvel

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Golden Geeks, You're not gonna see me pepping this in

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a bunch of categories. So don't get me wrong, there

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but I'm happily I'm not just dreading what I saw

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in the way that I have for some of these

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other movies. So I don't know if i'll both really

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defend it at all because I don't think it's good,

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but yeah, I at least found some some things I

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could enjoy. But where are you at? Taylor?

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Speaker 1: Oh? So, first of all, I got to shout out

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to Charlie Randall, another one of our patron producers. So sorry,

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I haven't put your your name of the roster yet,

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but it is there now. But my thoughts, oh nice

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you are. This movie feels chopped up and indecisive and

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incohesive in how it's kind of trajectory is going in

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its storyline and it's storytelling, and I had I felt

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that that really really pulled me out. Now. The writing

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is definitely not great. There's a lot of moments in

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this movie where I feel like, Okay, the characters probably

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had their lines changed, because there's one very huge yes

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Aaron Taylor Johnson that his lips don't move, but he

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actually says dialogue and that really pulls me just like

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it was a multiple Yeah you saw it with other

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characters too. Okay, yeah, I'll shout.

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Speaker 2: It out, you know, when we get further in.

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Speaker 4: But I'm glad you brought that up, actually, because that

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really took me out of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's not great. It's not great. But I

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do think that the actors definitely, you know, they came

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to play and I do enjoy Russell Crowe in these

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in these roles for some reason. Uh, he just to me,

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he really feels like this Pope's Exorcist kind of rolling out.

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Speaker 2: You feel that the same accent it was when he

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was first talking.

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Speaker 1: Exact same accent. Yeah. So, and maybe it was the

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Dena Thieves two trailer that I got at the start

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of the movie too. I was just thinking, like, I'm

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feeling the Russell Crowe right now, So that Butler was

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that Gerard Butler. I thought it was Russell Crowe.

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Speaker 2: Definitely Dard Butler.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, a similar in their in their old age.

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They are looking the exact same.

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Speaker 1: I'm the same person. Yeah, oh my goodness. But yeah,

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there's there's just a few other things in this movie

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that I don't know. It's it's not it's not one

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that I'm gonna be revisiting right away, but It's definitely

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a movie that I think, uh the end of the day,

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it was something that I kind of enjoyed. But again,

241
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like it's not anything that's breaking records or breaking new

242
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tears in the movie, and just like it's just it's

243
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not it's not that. And so if you're looking for

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something that's just kind of like a brain dead actioning movie,

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then this is probably gonna be it. But I will

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say Aaron Taylor Johnson definitely, he he was great. I

247
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had a lot of fun with him. I did get

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pulled out at times when he's running on like on

249
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all fours because I just I couldn't imagine how he

250
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was able to be faster when he's doing that. But again,

251
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it's it's whatever.

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Speaker 3: It's magic.

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Speaker 1: It's magic. Yeah, but yeah, there's just there's some other

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weird conclusions too with our characters. We're like, okay, this

255
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was clearly their last scene, or there's some other things too,

256
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and just some other yeah, just some other weird things

257
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that they introduced. But oh no, it's a movie that

258
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I I had fun with and I think that you

259
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can probably wait and not go see it in theaters.

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You probably just stay at home and wa'd see it

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at at home.

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Speaker 3: Or just wait your entire life and never see it.

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I think that's okay, wait.

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Speaker 1: Till the MCU does a version of Craven themselves, and

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I think you'll be happy with that.

266
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Speaker 3: So in the form of a Craven movie or do

267
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you think, guy, do you think they will ever try that?

268
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Speaker 1: I think you'll, Well, it depends. It depends what we

269
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see the future being for Sony, what they do with

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these characters, they license them out or something like that.

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But yeah, I would put more faith in the MCU

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and Figy to handle this character than Sony apparently did

273
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here with this movie. And it seems like we're not

274
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the only ones. A lot of other people seem to

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be kind of joining our our team here with giving

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it low scores, but tweet his own. I mean, maybe

277
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you'll go see it and you might think it's the

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best movie of the year, right, that's yeah. If it's the.

279
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Speaker 3: Only movie you saw, then maybe it could be the

280
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same time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But on that notes, was there anything else you

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guys wanted to add?

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Speaker 3: Well, just a quick I guess we'll talk about the

284
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set pieces when we get into the spoilers, But just

285
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what do you guys. Think of the action overall in this,

286
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the fight scenes and c GI quality and that sort

287
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of stuff.

288
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Speaker 4: I thought it was an incredible waste of R ratedness,

289
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like in the sense of, yeah.

290
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Speaker 3: There's one scene that really goes for it, but the

291
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other ones I kind of forgot until that scene that like, oh, yeah,

292
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this is right and they can do anything, and they

293
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just refused to. For most of the movie.

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Speaker 4: It just felt like PG thirteen scenes with like some

295
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added blood to it, and I thought all the blood

296
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,200
in it honestly looked terrible, Like there's a couple flowing

297
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,080
blood scenes and it just looked so CGI in the

298
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,320
sense of like a PS two graphic, like like it

299
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looked so bad, and it's just like, man, they literally

300
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,120
just erase the red and you can just have this

301
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a PG thirteen movie, like maybe remove some fboms. So yeah,

302
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,879
I definitely think that overall the action was a lot

303
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,120
more tame and I.

304
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Speaker 2: Choose my words wisely there.

305
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Speaker 4: In the sense of a pun but yeah, no for

306
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:49,000
a Hunter movie with the craven the Hunter like, it

307
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just it felt very held back, and I feel like

308
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,600
when you get the R raidedness, like let's just go

309
00:14:55,679 --> 00:14:58,279
for it, right, like, let's really get some gut spewing

310
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all over the place, and I don't. It just seemed

311
00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:05,759
really lackluster in that sense. And also there was a

312
00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:08,039
lot of action that just felt kind of cement mixery,

313
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,759
which very like reminded me of Morbius.

314
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Speaker 2: I remember Morebius having action like that.

315
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Speaker 4: I really don't remember much of anything of Madam Webb.

316
00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:17,679
I imagine some of the action that would have been

317
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,279
in that movie was similar, so reocurrering thing with the

318
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,120
Sony movies, because Venom also was very much like that

319
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when you had like multiple symbiotes. I remember in the

320
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,559
in the first movie for sure, like the last fight

321
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,840
between Venom and Riot I think was the name just

322
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,120
just like a kerfuffle and very like, yeah, not well

323
00:15:35,399 --> 00:15:39,639
well done. So m hm, that's my passionate thoughts on

324
00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:40,919
on the action of this movie.

325
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, fair I I there's a couple that that worked

326
00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:48,080
for me. There's one stealth sequence in Particula that I

327
00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:52,120
actually really enjoyed. We can talk about that, and then yeah,

328
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,960
I don't know, I just I kind of just liked

329
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,000
some of the movement stuff of him just running around

330
00:15:57,679 --> 00:16:01,039
the city or like you know, a particular prison. I'll say,

331
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,399
I don't know. It was kind of fun for what

332
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,720
it was, so I had some more I had some

333
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,399
better moments of the action here than I have with

334
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:10,639
the other Sony Verse stuff.

335
00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:12,279
Speaker 4: I would say, I think I know the scene that

336
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,279
you're talking about and you're alluding to, because as soon

337
00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:15,759
as it was going on, I just thought of you

338
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,120
and I wanted to, you know, make a comparison to

339
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:19,480
maybe a certain video games series.

340
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,039
Speaker 3: I'm playing some hit Man that I was. I was

341
00:16:22,039 --> 00:16:22,480
all over.

342
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,960
Speaker 4: It reminded me of like an arcane type game. I'm like, man,

343
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,960
this is like basically my movements in the game. It's

344
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,879
just it looks funny in a live action setting.

345
00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:33,759
Speaker 3: So it does. Yeah.

346
00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:38,840
Speaker 1: Cool, Well how about we jump to our first at

347
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,960
break and then we get back into this. I love that,

348
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,559
and we are back. So where do you guys want

349
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:48,200
to start?

350
00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 3: Oh?

351
00:16:52,039 --> 00:16:53,799
Speaker 4: I want to start by saying I feel like this

352
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:59,799
movie was very very clearly reshot in multiple different.

353
00:17:01,039 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 2: I guess sequences of the story.

354
00:17:02,559 --> 00:17:05,200
Speaker 4: I felt like there was some stuff with the opening

355
00:17:05,759 --> 00:17:08,000
that was very drawn out, with like the prison break,

356
00:17:08,039 --> 00:17:11,519
where it felt like we were in one scene maybe

357
00:17:11,559 --> 00:17:13,799
like one hallway, and then he like jumps to another area,

358
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,160
and it like just the way that he like is

359
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:17,960
walking in the one scene and then picking up and

360
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,319
like talking to another person. It just seemed like they

361
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:24,440
had like redone some things there that one wasn't as

362
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,400
noticeable as like some of the adr stuff that was

363
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,400
going on between Calypso and Craven when they're in like

364
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,599
that dome type thing.

365
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,519
Speaker 1: It felt like they shot that and they were in

366
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:36,960
they were in different sets.

367
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,079
Speaker 4: That was the scene Taylor when I like, I was

368
00:17:41,079 --> 00:17:43,960
actually getting tripped out because she's talking and her mouth

369
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,160
was like so clearly cgied over to the point where

370
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,000
it like like her eyes are like still and then

371
00:17:50,039 --> 00:17:52,119
her mouth's moving as if it's like an alien taking

372
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:53,440
over her body, And I'm like, is this.

373
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 2: Like a story thing?

374
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 4: Like like this is so obvious that like it it

375
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,559
makes it feel like she's about to reveal that she's

376
00:17:59,599 --> 00:18:01,640
a scroll or something like it.

377
00:18:01,279 --> 00:18:02,920
Speaker 2: It was so tripping me out.

378
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,079
Speaker 4: And then of course later on there was also more

379
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,079
moments of like as if it's a Bruce Lee type movie,

380
00:18:08,079 --> 00:18:10,319
where like someone's mouth is moving and it's just like

381
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,799
a completely different like pace of dialogue and the words

382
00:18:13,839 --> 00:18:17,000
are just like not SYNCD with the mouth, and like

383
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,519
why even do a close up of the face, Like

384
00:18:19,559 --> 00:18:21,720
why not just have him like from behind talking if

385
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,599
you're gonna do that Adr stuff. It was, Oh, it was.

386
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,720
It was crazy. It like totally took me out of it.

387
00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:29,039
And then I'm like, there's no way. That's actually just

388
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,720
poorly edited in that sense, like like there it's gonna

389
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,519
be a story reason and it didn't, And I'm like,

390
00:18:33,799 --> 00:18:36,160
what the fuck am I watching one hundred and ten

391
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,160
million dollars for this?

392
00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:40,880
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Like this is so hysterical? How

393
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,720
bad that was? But uh, I don't know, I was

394
00:18:43,759 --> 00:18:44,640
pretty passionate about it.

395
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,119
Speaker 3: I guess yeah. For me, the the Madam Webb Adr

396
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,759
stuff stood out way more than this for whatever reason.

397
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,119
So uh yeah, yeah I didn't. I guess I didn't

398
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,359
catch it. I must have been eating my snack when

399
00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,880
those particular dialogues happened or something like.

400
00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:03,519
Speaker 1: It's just a shame that they have to go ahead

401
00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:06,880
and allow those things to be noticeable, because You're right,

402
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,680
gregn that's a lot of money, it's a big budget,

403
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,279
and I just feel like it's very unfortunate they act

404
00:19:12,759 --> 00:19:16,559
have to. They should do a better job at trying

405
00:19:16,599 --> 00:19:20,119
to uphold that standard and kind of get that out

406
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:21,880
of there, and if you have to do reshoots, we'll

407
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,960
reshoot those scenes where you're removing all that ad lip

408
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,839
stuff and it doesn't look so poorly cgied where their

409
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,160
mouths are not speaking to the same words that are

410
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,920
supposed to be coming out of their mouths. And yeah,

411
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,440
that whole scene when it was her and him talking

412
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,119
at his base, and it was it was just filmed

413
00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,200
in a way that, Okay, they're definitely not together, well,

414
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,200
they're having this conversation in the same set, but it

415
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,240
also felt like she's gonna get sniped or executed because

416
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,119
we knew the bad guys were coming here, and she

417
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,160
was just gonna get like sniped on the spot and

418
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,279
then he was gonna be like, oh, oh my god,

419
00:19:54,599 --> 00:19:57,880
I gotta go fight or something like that. But even

420
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:03,200
her ending that was that was it. Shortly after that,

421
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,359
like she gave him the medicine and was like, yoh

422
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,240
my god, I was just gonna give you my family's

423
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,640
recipe or whatever, and that was it. She never came

424
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,400
back at the for the whole rest of the movie.

425
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,119
She's like, go get them and then she's done. It's like, well,

426
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:16,720
I would have loved a little bit more closure, but

427
00:20:16,759 --> 00:20:18,839
the way she was introduced and the way she just

428
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,640
was reintroduced at this funeral with Craven, that just felt

429
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,599
shoehorn down. There were so many plots that really just

430
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,359
were like shoehorned into this story and it was very uncomfortable.

431
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 4: I'm glad you like brought her up about like how

432
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:36,079
disjointed it felt, because I felt like some of the

433
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,880
biggest moments for me that felt just like random in

434
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,079
the sense of it not being like a natural progression

435
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,279
of like tying things together, Like it just felt like

436
00:20:46,319 --> 00:20:49,559
it was like a multiverse jump sometimes was all around

437
00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:51,039
her character Calypso I.

438
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 2: Feel like in the early portions with the younger.

439
00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:58,759
Speaker 4: Version of Craven, which I am, I'm not mistaken, it

440
00:20:58,799 --> 00:20:59,720
was sixteen.

441
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 2: Years one six Yeah, that is okay, that's crazy to me.

442
00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 4: But anyways, so like just her introduction there to her

443
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,920
being a lawyer, and it seems like this is gonna

444
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,640
be like some very like moral gray area. I don't

445
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:13,960
eve think it's a gray area. I think she's just

446
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,519
like a straight up like helper and murder whatever. That's called,

447
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,839
and she's like a lawyer, which seems like they're very like,

448
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,240
you know, ethical in the sense of like I feel

449
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,319
like if anybody found out anything that she's doing here,

450
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,640
she could just get disbarred and like lose her entire

451
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,799
career being a lawyer, and she's just completely fine with it.

452
00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:34,240
There's a lot of just she has this elixir of

453
00:21:34,279 --> 00:21:36,559
life that she's just not sharing with the world like

454
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:37,000
at all.

455
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 2: She could be saving like so many lives with.

456
00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:43,039
Speaker 4: This, like literally like cancer, patience, sick children, Like she's

457
00:21:43,079 --> 00:21:45,559
just keeping this close to the chest because it's her

458
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,279
like and like like how is that attached to the

459
00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:50,759
tarot cards too that she's carrying around with her grandmother

460
00:21:50,799 --> 00:21:51,880
and then she's also a lawyer.

461
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 2: Like, man, it was so weird. I think I was really.

462
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 4: Expecting like an interesting superhero type reveal, like with her

463
00:22:00,079 --> 00:22:02,799
character of being Calypso, she's got these tarot cards. I've

464
00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:04,160
never heard of this character before, so I don't know

465
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,240
if she's actually sourced from comic book material, but she.

466
00:22:07,319 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 3: Is if you google Calypso. It's just like she's one

467
00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:13,960
of those characters who always has like three square inches

468
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,279
of fabric on her whole body like just very sexualized

469
00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:19,359
and like has a very different style, and so I

470
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,279
think they were going for a more grounded version, which

471
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:23,079
they seem to do for like almost all of these

472
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,759
Sony Verse type characters. And I don't know what her

473
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:27,839
actual origin is here, but yeah, I feel like they

474
00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:30,039
took it like a much different route that would fit

475
00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:31,880
the movie. But yeah, there was a lot of weird stuff,

476
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,279
like specifically the moment when when Craven's brother Dima gets

477
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:39,039
taken and so he calls her out. He goes to

478
00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:40,839
her office and get that moment. He's like all wet

479
00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:43,200
in the office and whatnot, and he's like, oh, yeah,

480
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,880
there was there was three guys and he had a

481
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,880
Turkish cigarette and then she just like can instantly find

482
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,640
who these people are, and like the whole world was

483
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,279
like insane the level of connections that she has that

484
00:22:54,319 --> 00:22:56,480
she was able to pull that out. So yeah, there

485
00:22:56,559 --> 00:22:59,359
was a lot of like the conveniences of like those

486
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,480
two characters are kind of just able to do anything,

487
00:23:01,519 --> 00:23:03,680
but then they kind of just sometimes if one of

488
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,480
them can't get the info, the other one can, and

489
00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:07,880
that ended up being the perfect team. But then you're

490
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,680
right Tayl. It's kind of weird that she just kind

491
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,079
of went away there at the end, and then you

492
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,720
kind of have like one year later sequence that's just

493
00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:17,960
him and his brother. You know, you don't have her

494
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,839
related to the story, even though it seems like they'd

495
00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:22,319
be pretty intertwined at them at that point. But I

496
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:23,559
do feel like a lot of that stuff at the

497
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,920
end probably changed or edited or reshot or something, because

498
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,920
even the one sequence when she's like in his home

499
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,319
base in the little dome house and she finds the

500
00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:34,640
button to like bring all the weapons down, and then

501
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,599
we get a shot that like it seems like it's

502
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,400
minutes after that, but maybe it's days or something. And

503
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,400
then like he dramatically hits the button and like brings

504
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,279
the weapons down again. But it's like, didn't she like

505
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:47,839
just do that, Like I guess that was a different

506
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,799
day or something. But just like in terms of even

507
00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:51,960
the dramatic like that, as a viewer, that's supposed to

508
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,000
be cool. It's like when Iron Man like reveals all

509
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,160
these hidden suits, but it's like, you got you just

510
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,799
did that four seconds ago, Like why are you showing

511
00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:02,119
us this scene madically again? Of showing each one coming

512
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,279
down when it's not even that cool of a bass,

513
00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:07,359
Like it's it's a pretty basic one room little base there.

514
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,519
We don't need to see that sequence twice.

515
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 4: Man, that I actually was like laughing out loud in

516
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:14,039
that moment because, like you said, like she she like

517
00:24:14,079 --> 00:24:16,359
does the reveal, like, oh, that's kind of cool some gadgetry,

518
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,599
and then like later on it's like the badass version

519
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,640
with some and then you see like the bad guys

520
00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:24,559
grabbing their like fucking bear traps, and like it felt

521
00:24:24,599 --> 00:24:29,519
like Acme level of like Looney Tune like Coyote Wildye.

522
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: Coyotes like traps.

523
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,799
Speaker 2: I just couldn't believe what was happening. I'm like, this

524
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:34,759
is the big showdown.

525
00:24:34,759 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 4: They're getting fucking bear traps against Cravey lot, Like, oh

526
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,160
my god.

527
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 3: Like the tree song ripped in half. I like legitimately

528
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,079
that jump scared me and like I flinched, I took

529
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:47,160
physical damage.

530
00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:50,559
Speaker 2: That was like the most r rated that this movie

531
00:24:50,599 --> 00:24:51,400
got though, right like.

532
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 3: That was the very yeah, as you said, they very

533
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,160
easily could have toned that stuff down. And then like

534
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,039
even the two swears, like the F bombs in the

535
00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:01,720
movie I think are from hurt both from Calypso, and

536
00:25:01,759 --> 00:25:04,359
they're like two lines apart, so it's like like they

537
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,039
ain't could have easily he got away with not doing

538
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:07,440
that either.

539
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 4: There was one more actually, it's when Aaron Taylor Johnson's

540
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,240
chasing Dema when he gets kidnapped and he's like running

541
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,319
down a hallway and he's like get the fuck out

542
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:16,880
of the way, and then he and then he and

543
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,720
there's like there's like no one really there, and then

544
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,039
he jumps outside and like wall runs and then jumps

545
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:23,720
back and then like the cameras and there's literally no

546
00:25:23,799 --> 00:25:25,960
one there, like he could have just kept right.

547
00:25:26,519 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 3: And then the van was like so far away at

548
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,640
that point, it's like, damn, that didn't end up working

549
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:31,000
at all.

550
00:25:32,079 --> 00:25:35,519
Speaker 4: So uh I the one thing I'll say positive on

551
00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:36,160
this character.

552
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 2: I loved her outfits throughout the whole movie.

553
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:40,799
Speaker 4: So it's kind of funny that you said, like her

554
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:43,519
original character is like the character that you know, it's

555
00:25:43,559 --> 00:25:47,319
like the old school silock outfits or like Captain Yeah,

556
00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:51,079
like yeah exactly, whereas this one like it felt very

557
00:25:51,559 --> 00:25:54,480
Wakanda in a certain way where it was like, I

558
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,279
don't know, some big like gold necklaces and just just

559
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:00,680
really she felt like a like royal Like it was

560
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,559
some really really cool outfits that they had for her.

561
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,400
I think like the most standout you would have been

562
00:26:06,519 --> 00:26:09,119
at her lawyer office. And then at the end, I

563
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,880
guess she's got like a kind of like a cut

564
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,839
like no sleeve outfit attire on.

565
00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: And yeah, so I liked.

566
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 4: Her outfits at least, even though I really really just

567
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,440
hated everything that was going on with the character.

568
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:25,559
Speaker 3: But she's yeah too, she was great, great with.

569
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 2: A butchery archery summer camp. Like fuck have seen this.

570
00:26:32,039 --> 00:26:34,799
Speaker 3: Kirkling to bring up, like so just her description on

571
00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:37,880
Wikipedia here clipso was a nameless voodoo priestess who was

572
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,480
born and raised in Haiti, has psychopathic or she's a

573
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,119
psychopathic woman associated with the craven So I like that's

574
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,799
the one I'd pull that lining in there, and why

575
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:49,839
they like put the tarot card stuff in there just

576
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,319
to probably harken back to like what that character's origins are.

577
00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:55,079
She doesn't really come across as like a voodoo type

578
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,279
character in this, but just like the hint of it

579
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,480
through the cards, which is weird, like she obviously did

580
00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:02,960
that when she was like a teen whatever on safari

581
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,119
thing when she helped save Craven by find like calling

582
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,039
for help when he got mulled by the lion. But then,

583
00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:12,640
like she says, she carries them around like into her adulthood.

584
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,920
So she's still just like in that small purse always

585
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,160
carries her like a huge pack of Darrow cards. It

586
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,480
doesn't seemingly ever use them again, but like that just

587
00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:23,319
you know, it's connects her to her family, I guess,

588
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,559
so maybe that's maybe that's the reason why.

589
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:28,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked up the image.

590
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, what a wild outfit, very like early come booky.

591
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:38,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, the character I'm kind of in agreeance with you, Kirkland.

592
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,119
But yeah, just the way she was just introduced and

593
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,880
kind of appeared, and her sources, like you mentioned Dylan,

594
00:27:44,039 --> 00:27:46,920
it's just very odd. And we didn't even get a

595
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,119
climactic scene when Craven calls her up says, hey, it

596
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,079
was a setup. You need to get out of there

597
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,759
because Rhino's coming for you now. And then she immediately

598
00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:57,759
just happens to see like, oh, there's five guys coming

599
00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:00,319
to my building that don't look like they belong Like okay,

600
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,960
yeah that was the loading dock. That was insane time

601
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,680
and Cravens like, Okay, go out to the loading doc,

602
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,640
I'll still and pick you up. The next scene is there,

603
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,599
I'm pretty sure was Siberia where he lives or whatnot.

604
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,240
And she just got out of the plane. We never

605
00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:16,200
meet his plane pilot friend, who's always like on these missions,

606
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,160
Like I was trying, I was, I was trying to

607
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,319
figure out, Okay, who is she in connection or relation

608
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,160
to him, because it feels like there's like a friendship here.

609
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 3: But seems like that was something that maybe got cut,

610
00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:26,920
like maybe there was an actor in that role in

611
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,839
a bigger way and then just didn't make it in

612
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:30,640
the end or something.

613
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, unfortunately.

614
00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: Well, I would love to jump to another character then,

615
00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:43,440
by the name of Foreigner, who's a Marvel character I've

616
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,160
never heard of before, played by what's this actor's name.

617
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,880
We've seen him in a couple of things recently. He

618
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,000
was in Poor Things, he was in Sanctuary. Christopher Abbott,

619
00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:55,160
who's kind of like a I feel like an up

620
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,559
and comer lately. I didn't know he was going to

621
00:28:57,599 --> 00:28:59,160
be in this movie, so that was kind of a

622
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,720
fun surprise, and I thought he did a good enough

623
00:29:01,839 --> 00:29:05,000
job given the level, like the quality level of dialogue

624
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,680
in this But I thought that was a really cool character.

625
00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:11,480
I liked his really trippy powers, kind of doing the countdown,

626
00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:14,839
And don't know if he's freezing time, like if he's

627
00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:17,319
a time traveler, or if he's just like you know,

628
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,759
knocking these people out, like knocking them unconscious, kind of

629
00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:21,640
like Professor X can do that, right, just like put

630
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,119
people in a state of stasis for a bit while

631
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,440
he does other things. But either way, I thought he

632
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:28,720
was really cool. I thought his glasses, which were really

633
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,440
stupid looking, were just like a perfect fit how he

634
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,480
would take them off and then like look in people's

635
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,640
eyes and mind control them. So I thought he was

636
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,279
a super fun character. And like, on top of that,

637
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:41,680
one one thing that I love that I feel like

638
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,000
these Marvel movies never do, is you know your hero

639
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,440
character if you want to call Craven that anti hero villain,

640
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,640
I don't know what you want to call him, but

641
00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:50,640
he you know, he's the protagonist, that he's the hero

642
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:53,839
in this setting in this story quote unquote, you kind

643
00:29:53,839 --> 00:29:55,759
of expect that, Okay, he's gonna find this is like

644
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,480
huge adversary to him. It's a very different type of

645
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:01,480
villain or combat and then he's normally used to and

646
00:30:01,519 --> 00:30:03,440
it's like, how is he gonna overcome this? And I

647
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,039
kind of love that the solution is that he just

648
00:30:05,079 --> 00:30:07,160
never did. Like he straight up would have died and

649
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,599
lost were it not for Calypso to come in there

650
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,680
with it with the clean headshot and take that guy out.

651
00:30:12,319 --> 00:30:14,559
Craven was dead to rights because like, even though he's

652
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:16,799
the greatest hunter in the world potentially or one of

653
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:19,000
the best, he still has his weaknesses in the way

654
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,519
that Rhino was like impenetrable except for like one tiny

655
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:24,200
little hole on the weft side of him, you know,

656
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,759
like any boss battle in a video game. I kind

657
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:29,519
of love that the Foreigner was just better than Craven

658
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,519
in a one on one, but his weakness, I don't

659
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:34,319
really know what you'd call his weakness, Like it's just

660
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:36,839
like he got two zoned in on the kill or something.

661
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,839
But I know, I thought he was a very fun

662
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,440
villain and a surprise because I've literally never heard of

663
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,039
this character, and I'm gonna look up right now if

664
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,680
he actually is like a known Marvel character.

665
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 4: Yeah for me, Yeah, I think he was definitely the

666
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,440
more interesting part of this movie. I was really like

667
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,519
waiting for maybe more explanation on exactly what's happening. So

668
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:00,440
I think I was a little bit bummed that that

669
00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:04,599
answer never got fully you know, resolved. But I guess

670
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,960
I can always look into some source material for the character,

671
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,839
because yeah, he was he was cool and.

672
00:31:08,839 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: Interesting enough and.

673
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 4: To make me want to you know, seek him out

674
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,599
and hopefully he's got some he's got some good juice

675
00:31:16,599 --> 00:31:20,000
in the works, but definitely not in the Sony banner.

676
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,559
And I feel like I was also just like really

677
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:28,240
confused on his like alignment because like who initially hired him.

678
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,799
Speaker 2: Was it just Papa or is it Rhino.

679
00:31:32,039 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: I think it was Rhino that hired him, because it.

680
00:31:34,119 --> 00:31:36,599
Speaker 2: Seemed like Rhino was really confused when he like showed

681
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:37,599
up or like.

682
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,559
Speaker 3: I don't think he had maybe seen him or met

683
00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:40,079
him before.

684
00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: Oh okay, he had just hired the foreigner.

685
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: I think. So that's the way I read it.

686
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's just like a lot of the

687
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,720
handling maybe around the character and like logistics of how

688
00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:52,519
it was all working was just so messy. It just

689
00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:54,839
kind of frustrated me. But yeah, like the character himself

690
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,400
was definitely you know cool, Yeah, I.

691
00:31:58,359 --> 00:32:00,279
Speaker 3: Don't think he'd like fit into the overall there rative

692
00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:03,039
in a really seamless way. I just I just like

693
00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:04,880
liked him more for the visual and like the power,

694
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:05,960
the power side of it.

695
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,119
Speaker 4: I like your just addressing I guess of like the

696
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,039
fact that Craven just couldn't actually beat this guy like

697
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,119
an in a straight up fight.

698
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,359
Speaker 3: And yeah, because Craven's not like some all powerful Marvel character.

699
00:32:17,599 --> 00:32:20,880
He's like he's like just the generic, a little bit strong,

700
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:24,079
got better stam and all. Like he is that like

701
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,480
generic level character. So he shouldn't be able to just

702
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,640
beat every opponent. You know, He's gonna lose to so

703
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,799
many people. And I think that was like a fitting

704
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,279
character for that, whereas other characters maybe doesn't make as

705
00:32:35,359 --> 00:32:38,079
much sense, like Captain Marvel or something. You're never gonna

706
00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:40,359
take her down if you're just like a low level

707
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,640
power level. But for for Craven, it makes a lot

708
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,640
of sense for him to get taken out easily.

709
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, that arrow is not gonna take out Captain Marvel.

710
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:49,359
You know, like even if she's not paying attention, she

711
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,759
just got like the.

712
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: Stringth Calypso's stands no chance against.

713
00:32:56,039 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, the the foreigner. He was. He was interesting and

714
00:32:59,799 --> 00:33:03,599
he's probably the most interesting villain out of all the

715
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,519
others in this movie. And when he really gets to

716
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:10,079
shine when he hits that serum into Craven. I really

717
00:33:10,119 --> 00:33:12,279
like that. I felt like I was defoe like in

718
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:14,359
that meme like gift like looking up because when those

719
00:33:14,359 --> 00:33:16,480
spiders are coming down, I'm in the reclining seats. I

720
00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:20,759
was like, holy fuck, Like that was definitely very freaky.

721
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,480
But just they they did a really good job with

722
00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:27,319
that whole scene, because you think that Craven's got him

723
00:33:27,319 --> 00:33:29,240
and is punching the shit out of him, and then

724
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:30,960
all of a sudden it changes to this log and

725
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,359
he just walks up behind him, Like, man, this guy's

726
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,200
just on like a Scarecrow level from DC, Like he's

727
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,279
just totally fucking with him, and this is really cool.

728
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:43,200
Uh my cal is that? I feel like the one, two,

729
00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:47,039
three just got a little bit too repetitive. Uh one

730
00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:48,680
too many times. I think it was cool, like.

731
00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: He counted, I would agree with you, but I think three.

732
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,759
Speaker 2: God three, motherfucker. That was another.

733
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,319
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many times where he didn't

734
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,279
need to just like teleport behind a guy just to

735
00:34:01,359 --> 00:34:03,400
like kill him or just to wait for the guy

736
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,279
to turn around and face him just to shoot him.

737
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:06,880
I mean, he could have just pulled like he just

738
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,679
said one and just pulled the gun and just like

739
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:09,400
shoot the guy.

740
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: But it's as he's very dramatic.

741
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:14,519
Speaker 1: He is dramatic, Like it's just like not his calling card,

742
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:16,480
but like his routine. He has to make sure they

743
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,559
snap out of it and then turn around so they

744
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,599
make an eye to eye. It's a weird thing. But yeah,

745
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:26,119
he was cool. But yeah, ultimately he he got hawk eyed, so.

746
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:32,519
Speaker 3: Well hawkeye is not usually yeah, going for like impaled headshot.

747
00:34:33,079 --> 00:34:34,679
He's more but.

748
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:43,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I kind of want to talk about uh

749
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:48,119
the brother here and then how I just could not

750
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,800
be pulled out from the fact that now he did

751
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,000
you you didn't see Gladiator too, did you, Koklan? Because

752
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:53,800
it's the same actor.

753
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 4: No. I went with a buddy from work that's seeing

754
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,559
Gladiator and he like right away he's like, oh, that

755
00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:00,920
guy's in Gladiator too, Yeah, okay.

756
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: And so that role completely just pulled me out it

757
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,920
because I feel like at the start he's very similar

758
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,400
in how he's just like cowering and and all these

759
00:35:09,559 --> 00:35:13,960
like just how he's acting, especially when Russell Crowe is around, and.

760
00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: I love that kind of loose Gladiator connection, you know,

761
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,039
Russell Crowe and him, even though they weren't in the

762
00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:22,079
same Gladiator movie, but I was really digging when they

763
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:25,000
had scenes together. I just I don't know. I'm sure him,

764
00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:27,679
being a young actor, probably loved Gladiator as a kid.

765
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,960
Now he's like in these movies with these people. I'm

766
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,800
sure he was like fan boying a little bit after

767
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,559
he's I don't know when this would have been filmed

768
00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:35,840
in relation to Gladiator too, but I'm sure that was

769
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,000
a cool moment for him.

770
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 4: I think this guy was born after Gladiator came out too,

771
00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:42,320
like me, he was born after two thousands.

772
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,199
Speaker 1: So Russell Crow's like giving him advice, like, oh, if

773
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,079
you want to be successful and.

774
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,199
Speaker 3: Gladiator, if you want to have a lifelong career like

775
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,360
me where I'm in to the Popes, Exorcist and crazy.

776
00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 4: He's got his Russian accent, you gotta start working in

777
00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:57,960
Russian accent. Yeah, I uh, it's just funny because you're

778
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,320
just talking about Gladider. I feel like every time, like

779
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,119
Russell Crow would be just doing a certain line about

780
00:36:03,159 --> 00:36:05,239
you have to be a man and you know, man up,

781
00:36:05,559 --> 00:36:06,199
don't be weak.

782
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, man, this guy was in Gladiator.

783
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,079
Speaker 4: How far we've come, like like just just thinking of

784
00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:15,280
like Gladiator one and how fucking emotional that movie gets

785
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,719
with this character and how great those scenes are and

786
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,159
how good he is, just like and like, you know,

787
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,239
I'm not going to criticize the specific well yeah, maybe

788
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,599
I will, but just it felt like an incredibly different jump.

789
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 2: It's been many years, as.

790
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:32,599
Speaker 4: We're talking, since since Gladiator one, but uh you know

791
00:36:32,679 --> 00:36:33,599
who read who?

792
00:36:33,639 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the foreigners and then who's the brother brother?

793
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: The brother?

794
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: Damn see there lose my way already, But.

795
00:36:41,079 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, I really really really didn't like this whole dynamic.

796
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,880
You like, you guys brought up just the whole the trio,

797
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,239
I guess of of the two brothers and the dad,

798
00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:54,320
and I think I just hated the whole family dynamic honestly,

799
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,400
Like I hated the opening, I hate the young stuff.

800
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,679
I just really didn't like it. And then the younger

801
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,199
brother he just felt like Reek from Game of Thrones

802
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,119
when he's just like a castrated, like weak individual that

803
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,360
just has like no confidence.

804
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,559
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I just hated it.

805
00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 4: And I also knew that we were like, at some

806
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,360
point in this movie, whether it's at the end or during,

807
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,519
He's gonna do like a villain thing where he is

808
00:37:15,559 --> 00:37:16,639
like becoming the chameleon.

809
00:37:16,679 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I just fucking mate this so much.

810
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 4: I know it's coming. I know this is the end

811
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,159
of Sony, so I don't have to worry about well,

812
00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:24,960
not the end of Sony, but you know this universe.

813
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,119
I was just I don't know, I was cringing before

814
00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:30,880
it happened, and when it happened, you know, we'll talk

815
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,239
about it, but I was I was cringing during and yeah,

816
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,199
I just really didn't like. I didn't even like the

817
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,280
dynamic between Dmitri and Craven. It felt like Craven just

818
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,719
totally fucked over his brother by running away and he

819
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,039
like comes back every birthday, but like it's just such

820
00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:48,440
a fucked up, weird dynamic amongst like him and the dad,

821
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,840
and it is just it was so just messy, I

822
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,840
think all of it that it just brought down pretty

823
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,119
much everyone that was involved.

824
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I liked it until the one year later sequence

825
00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:03,800
when he takes the villain turn. That's that did not

826
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,440
work for me at all, and I didn't feel like

827
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,119
we were really building towards that. Obviously, we had many

828
00:38:08,199 --> 00:38:11,639
sequences where he felt, I don't know, disrespected or he

829
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,880
was trying to he was trying to stand up against

830
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,079
his father, but he also still loved his father and

831
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:19,440
respected him given all that, which is kind of like

832
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,559
a bit of like hostage syndrome, I feel like a

833
00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:27,039
little bit. And I thought that dynamic was interesting to

834
00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:30,480
a certain extent, like just the differences that he had

835
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,159
with his father versus versus surgee there. So I like

836
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,159
that stuff. I think they could have dug into it more,

837
00:38:37,199 --> 00:38:39,639
but I don't think I really wanted them too. I

838
00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:42,480
think it was done just enough. And yeah, I think it,

839
00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:45,400
like it's kind of an interesting storyline for him, that

840
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,239
you know, just this macho energy, you gotta be a hunter,

841
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,320
you got to take out the biggest game in the world, like,

842
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,440
and he just was not that kind of person and

843
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,519
said he went to the arts and he wanted to

844
00:38:55,679 --> 00:38:58,440
become a musician and own a club, and like he

845
00:38:58,519 --> 00:39:01,159
is achieving and doing those things doing by his own

846
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,519
bootstraps or did his dad just give him a bunch

847
00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:05,679
of money. I don't really know why. It doesn't really matter.

848
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,000
It doesn't really matter, I guess, but I kind of

849
00:39:09,039 --> 00:39:10,920
like that dynamic and I thought him, I thought the

850
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,039
two had a good chemistry. I am kind of a

851
00:39:13,039 --> 00:39:15,679
little biased because I love this actor Fred I forget

852
00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:17,760
his last name, but plays the brother who is you

853
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,800
know in White Lotus. That's why I just love his

854
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,880
character in White Lotus. He's so fun in that. And

855
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,639
so even in Gladiator too, where I didn't love the

856
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,800
writing of the character, I still liked him for the

857
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,880
most part. And it's kind of the same case here

858
00:39:30,039 --> 00:39:32,599
until once again, that very ending sequence I love for

859
00:39:32,639 --> 00:39:34,920
like half this movie, like all the action sequences, he's

860
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,639
just wearing like that light blue like turtle neck sweater.

861
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,239
That was like such a funny costume choice. And he

862
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,400
is a very goofy guy to me, and like all

863
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,639
these roles, he just has like a goofy energy to him,

864
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,800
so that was kind of very fitting. But yeah, the

865
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,639
the chameleon stuff, it was kind of weird. I like,

866
00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:54,480
for the first while, I was like, whoa, because he

867
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:56,440
has like the voice thing. He's like able to modulate

868
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,199
his voice really well. And then his dad's like he's

869
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,280
kind of a Camelle and I'm like, oh, are we

870
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,199
going the Chameleon are out here? But it's like this

871
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,480
is a different version of Chameleon where he doesn't do

872
00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:09,320
like the Mystique transformations and he just does voices or something.

873
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,760
But it clearly shows at the end that he was

874
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,360
still like getting these injections or whatever it was, so

875
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,119
it hadn't quite built to that level yet And by

876
00:40:16,159 --> 00:40:18,079
the end of the movie one year later, it's like

877
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:20,800
fully taken form and he can transform into people. So

878
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,880
I think that's cool. Like I've been wondering, like, where

879
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,719
where's Chameleon? Why haven't they done him in live action yet?

880
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,719
It's such a versatile character, obviously, as we've seen all

881
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,800
the X Men movies with Mystique. It's like with that

882
00:40:31,159 --> 00:40:32,920
kind of character, you can just do some really fun

883
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,079
stuff messing with the viewer, you know, as we're watching

884
00:40:36,119 --> 00:40:38,760
it and not knowing who is who, who's real and whatnot.

885
00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:42,239
But yeah, I do feel like the villain turn wasn't

886
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,519
really justified for me at the end. I think he

887
00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:46,719
made some interesting points of the way he talks about,

888
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,280
how well, are you any different than our father? If

889
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,239
you like had this hit done on him from like

890
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,840
a lion or a bear. I guess like that that

891
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,719
was kind of an interesting dynamic, but that kind of

892
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,119
feels like anything in the one year later sequence feels

893
00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:01,000
like something that would like in a sequel. But they

894
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:03,320
kind of just jammed like ten minutes as a sequel

895
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,360
in here, even though we're never gonna get one. So

896
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,159
that stuff just felt like really underbaked, And I don't

897
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:10,360
know if I would have liked it more if they

898
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,239
just did it more as like a tease and kind

899
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,239
of hinted at maybe he was going down a darker path.

900
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,840
But the fact that he's like, oh yeah, I'm like

901
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,559
fully in the world of crime now and I'm just

902
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:19,880
gonna like do this stuff seemed like a little like

903
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,519
Jump the Shark sort of moment in terms of the

904
00:41:21,559 --> 00:41:24,159
absurdity of it. I did like the look of the chameleon.

905
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,079
I mean, it's hard to do it wrong when it's

906
00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:30,079
just like a guy who has like silver fleshment and

907
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:31,960
looks like an alien. But I think they did a

908
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,320
good job of making that look correct.

909
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 4: But yeah, they have like one brief moment when Craven

910
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,079
Link defeats Rhino that he's like gonna shoot him, and

911
00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:42,239
then it's like this is a new brother, and it's

912
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,880
like again, like there's no point throughout the movie that

913
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,480
he's like has these villain tendencies. So it's just like,

914
00:41:48,519 --> 00:41:50,840
what the fuck is even happening here, Like it seems.

915
00:41:50,559 --> 00:41:52,519
Speaker 3: Like Craven even talks him down in that moment too,

916
00:41:52,559 --> 00:41:54,559
So yeah, I feel like it's kind of inconsistent with

917
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:56,800
the arc that we're building for him.

918
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 2: And like, I think it just makes so much more

919
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,880
sense to have of I don't know, I don't know.

920
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,119
Speaker 4: It kind of translates into like just my overall thoughts

921
00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:08,880
with the plot and what I think this movie could

922
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,159
have been so much better if it was just simplified

923
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,360
of really not even having the rhino dynamic, Like you

924
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,280
could have just had the main threat and really the

925
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,719
only threat being Russell Crowe like the Father, and like

926
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,440
it would have been so much more enticing if like

927
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:28,239
the Final Showdown, it's it's it's Dema Dimitri about to

928
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,199
like do that to the dad, like shoot him because

929
00:42:30,199 --> 00:42:32,119
he's just been abusing him his whole life, right, Like

930
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:35,519
he's so pathetic and like weak because of what his

931
00:42:35,639 --> 00:42:37,239
dad has like raising him up to be, right, like

932
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,079
he's never You're never gonna be good enough, You're always weak,

933
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,440
can't defend yourself. He's just a bully to him his

934
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,719
whole life, and you don't even get any resolution with that,

935
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,039
Like he's literally defending his dad's actions. By the end

936
00:42:49,039 --> 00:42:50,599
of it, after the one year later, he says that

937
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,119
right like, oh, like like you're.

938
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: Not as good as Dad or Pop.

939
00:42:54,559 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: Geez.

940
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: I can't even get the line because it's just so terrible.

941
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,039
Speaker 4: So I I really was upset that that was just

942
00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:03,000
not addressed at all. He's just like a victim of

943
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:05,840
his father and like very much Stockholm syndrome of just

944
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,119
like defending him to the end, and it just it's

945
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,679
like nothing out of that. So I was really just

946
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,519
upset with that whole thing. And then it felt just

947
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:19,960
so shoehorned and very sequelly, like I liked your your

948
00:43:20,559 --> 00:43:21,159
just name for.

949
00:43:21,159 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: It, I guess because it just felt weird.

950
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 4: It felt like a little epilogue at the end, and

951
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,719
it felt like something that you could have gotten in

952
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,440
a sequel. I'm not I don't want a sequel, but

953
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,639
it just felt like it was just pieced on there,

954
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,519
intact on there. And yeah, and then like when you

955
00:43:33,559 --> 00:43:35,519
when he's about to shoot Rhino. It just felt so

956
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,840
like undeserved and yeah, it was. Ah, I didn't like

957
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:40,360
it at all.

958
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,599
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of a repeated consistent thing

959
00:43:44,639 --> 00:43:47,800
throughout this movie as things are left unfinished, and it's

960
00:43:48,199 --> 00:43:50,079
it's not great that they do that with so many

961
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:55,119
different narratives. So when you look at yeah, the brother here, Dimitri,

962
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,880
it's just it's kind of shocking that they would jump

963
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,360
a year ahead, Like I feel like, Okay, if they're

964
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,679
gonna do this and they're trying to showcase him as

965
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,679
the villain, this is clearly them trying to allude to

966
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,000
a future for this character and this franchise. But especially

967
00:44:09,039 --> 00:44:11,039
when Craven's like, oh, you know, I can't let you

968
00:44:11,079 --> 00:44:14,119
do that, off to go, I'll stop you. Yeah, yah yaha.

969
00:44:14,599 --> 00:44:16,800
I think that if you acts that whole sequence of

970
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,599
it being a year, you do something much more closer

971
00:44:20,599 --> 00:44:22,719
to the present. And on top of that, if it

972
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,559
is a year, why did Craven fuck off for a

973
00:44:25,679 --> 00:44:27,960
year and leave his brother alone in the wake of

974
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,000
all this chaos to just go see a fucked up

975
00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:36,000
doctor and get weird experimental drug surgery done to change

976
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,880
his skin like Craven should have been there and had

977
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,559
been monitoring him, because his brother should not have been

978
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:44,000
put in control of this empire. There's just a lot

979
00:44:44,039 --> 00:44:46,920
of questionable things and Cravens just making mistakes left, right

980
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:47,400
and center.

981
00:44:48,159 --> 00:44:50,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, you would think that, Yeah, you would think that

982
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,639
his list at the end of this movie is still

983
00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:56,599
like a huge ass list. So he's like presumably still

984
00:44:56,639 --> 00:44:58,159
like working and stuff. And you would think a lot

985
00:44:58,199 --> 00:45:01,679
of those would be connections to his father's because the

986
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,119
father that's before the one year later jump right, it

987
00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:08,480
must be yeah, so yeah, you would think that would

988
00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:10,400
be like, yeah, he would be more involved there or

989
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,000
see some of that stuff. Now, obviously the brother was

990
00:45:12,039 --> 00:45:15,960
already starting the treatment before before the one year leader

991
00:45:16,039 --> 00:45:18,679
Later sequence, because you could do the voice modulation there,

992
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,400
but he hadn't gone like full fully off the deep

993
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,199
end there, you know.

994
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,119
Speaker 2: The voice moduling. I thought that's something he could always

995
00:45:25,199 --> 00:45:26,800
do because when he was a kid, he did.

996
00:45:26,679 --> 00:45:27,519
Speaker 1: He could do it as a kid.

997
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:31,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, what did he what did he do as a kid?

998
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:32,119
Speaker 1: Like voices?

999
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, he like he like does Russell Crowe's voice, and

1000
00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:39,719
like when they're coming downstairs, he has Russell Crowe calls

1001
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,280
in Surge Day and then he's going down He's.

1002
00:45:41,159 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 3: Like, hmm, I wonder if it's like I wonder if

1003
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,559
it's like a unlocking the full potential of his power thing,

1004
00:45:47,639 --> 00:45:50,760
and maybe he already had some special power because like

1005
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,000
that's the thing, right, It's not like the actor is

1006
00:45:53,039 --> 00:45:55,440
doing an impression. They just straight up take that actor's

1007
00:45:55,519 --> 00:45:59,519
voice and like you use it like even before the powers. So, okay,

1008
00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:01,599
you guys are making me three rethink that a little bit.

1009
00:46:01,679 --> 00:46:03,920
I kind of forgot about that scene when he was

1010
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,639
a kid. That's interesting. Do you think that the The

1011
00:46:08,679 --> 00:46:12,440
New York Doctor was like alluding to a specific character

1012
00:46:12,559 --> 00:46:14,400
or is it just like because the fact that it's

1013
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,159
New York is like, okay, well let's connect. That's definitely

1014
00:46:17,159 --> 00:46:18,039
in the spidy realm.

1015
00:46:18,119 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 2: Right. Well, they said the full name and Miles of Warren.

1016
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought they were going to say doctor Connors, but.

1017
00:46:26,599 --> 00:46:30,039
Speaker 4: So did I because like the felt very yeah that

1018
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,440
was the other one, of course, doctor Michael Morvius. So

1019
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,000
but the skin effect felt very like crocodile, So I

1020
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:37,960
thought it was gonna be Kurt.

1021
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 2: Connor's but interesting like Miles Brown's.

1022
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:46,039
Speaker 1: No, okay, study genetics under the tutelage is the high evolutionary.

1023
00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 3: Uh interesting similar power situation unlocking.

1024
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: The full fell in love with Gwen Stacy hasn't yes.

1025
00:46:58,159 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 3: Is there a hero name for that character?

1026
00:46:59,760 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 2: Though?

1027
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: I think not a hero, a villain. It looks like

1028
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,039
he took the name the Jackal.

1029
00:47:05,199 --> 00:47:09,039
Speaker 3: The jack I'm not familiar with. The Jackal looks like

1030
00:47:09,079 --> 00:47:12,480
it sounds like the Prowler though similar to the Prowl similar.

1031
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear the soundtrack already.

1032
00:47:16,119 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Interesting. Hmm, Well please let us know the comments.

1033
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,119
What's your theory there, Like in terms of the power

1034
00:47:24,199 --> 00:47:26,519
is like when that came to be? It might it

1035
00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:30,000
probably is just in the previous year, I guess, but yeah,

1036
00:47:30,039 --> 00:47:32,159
it is. It is interesting that he was able to

1037
00:47:32,159 --> 00:47:34,559
do that as a as a kid. So I don't

1038
00:47:34,559 --> 00:47:36,639
know the origin. I feel like whenever I've seen Chameleon

1039
00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:39,320
and like animated series and stuff, it's just like there's

1040
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:44,599
no origin stories. Just Chameleon already could Chameleon himself. There

1041
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:47,000
was never the full setup of where how he got

1042
00:47:47,039 --> 00:47:49,559
the he got the powers, but that was just, I guess,

1043
00:47:49,559 --> 00:47:52,559
an interesting thing. In general, this movie felt a lot

1044
00:47:52,639 --> 00:47:55,360
more mystical in general than like anything else in the

1045
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,000
Sony Verse where all the venom stuff, like it makes

1046
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,039
sense because it comes from like that alien gouh. But

1047
00:48:01,119 --> 00:48:02,719
I feel like in this like with with like this

1048
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,880
magic potion that we have and like the foreigner who

1049
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,400
knows where his powers come from chameleon like before maybe

1050
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,800
even the injections, he had like some sort of supernatural

1051
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:18,480
power and obviously Yah Craven gets the potion powers Rhino's situation.

1052
00:48:18,639 --> 00:48:21,719
It just feels like there's a lot more, a lot

1053
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,760
more characters Like I feel like all these other movies

1054
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,360
have like one or two like the villain and the

1055
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,119
or sometimes not even the villain, like Madame Webb. Doesn't

1056
00:48:28,119 --> 00:48:30,119
the villain not have like any powers whatsoever. He's just

1057
00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:31,599
like a guy.

1058
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 2: It's Echil Sims.

1059
00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 3: You know.

1060
00:48:33,559 --> 00:48:35,559
Speaker 1: I think he's got powers. He got like Spider Man

1061
00:48:35,679 --> 00:48:37,599
super strength powers and stuff like that. Doesn't he?

1062
00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 3: Oh? Does he? I don't know. I can't remember.

1063
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:40,159
Speaker 2: I can't remember anything.

1064
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,119
Speaker 3: A few months ago.

1065
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,599
Speaker 1: You meant so you mentioned Rhino. This character I know

1066
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,559
is my God. The only other interpretation that I've had

1067
00:48:52,599 --> 00:48:55,760
the experience of knowing is the one from The Amazing

1068
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,320
Spider Man two with that Rhino in the mech suit.

1069
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,920
I've never encountered him in the games or anything like that,

1070
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,440
so I can't speak to it. But this version I

1071
00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:07,760
was not driving with as him being like a main,

1072
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,800
main boss, and yeah, he was cool when he like

1073
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,559
let his rhino self take over. I thought that was

1074
00:49:15,679 --> 00:49:19,360
kind of fine. But there's one scene I can't remember

1075
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,280
what was the trigger for him or whatnot. You get

1076
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,159
him at the earlier earlier on the movie in the

1077
00:49:24,199 --> 00:49:27,119
intro talking Russell Crow and Russell Crowe just like belittles him,

1078
00:49:27,199 --> 00:49:30,039
and this very much seemed like an Iron Man's three

1079
00:49:30,119 --> 00:49:32,280
kind of thing with an alidren Killian kind of the

1080
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,960
hair actually similar hair. Yeah, and then he comes back

1081
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,800
and he's genetically modified himself ready to take on the family.

1082
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,159
So it's very similar in how it's narrative is set up.

1083
00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:46,239
But for me, though, when he was told some bit

1084
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,239
of bad news and he's just sitting there and he's

1085
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:55,960
like ah for like thirty fucking seconds, just loved that.

1086
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,679
Speaker 3: That had me and the whole theater we were up

1087
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,400
in arms. Everyone was in in that moment that.

1088
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 4: I felt like the only person actually laughing. I feel

1089
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,119
like people were just kind of like shocked. That's what's happening, but.

1090
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: The completely quiet the rest of the movie except for

1091
00:50:09,559 --> 00:50:11,840
one guy who did like a loud ass fart, but

1092
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,639
like that scream got got the theater to pumping so nice.

1093
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: It was just so fleeting moment weird.

1094
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think it was like an actor choice,

1095
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,760
director choice, Like I was it in the script? I

1096
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,599
really I need to know. I need to know who's

1097
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,039
I could believe any.

1098
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 1: Of those three options. That's the most terrible thing about

1099
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:30,280
this movie.

1100
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 2: That's true.

1101
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: I don't know what the actor is though from anything else.

1102
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:35,559
I didn't recognize that.

1103
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,599
Speaker 3: He looks kind of like the generic guy you've seen

1104
00:50:37,639 --> 00:50:40,000
around before. But like I can't, I can't put a

1105
00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:41,840
name to a face in terms of the other movies.

1106
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,639
But yeah, Ryano, what a character here. I kind of

1107
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,639
I kind of enjoyed a little bit just because it

1108
00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:49,519
was like so dumb. It was like so bad. It's

1109
00:50:49,519 --> 00:50:52,239
good to some extent for me, a little bit, like

1110
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,119
he was he was better than some other villains I've

1111
00:50:54,119 --> 00:50:55,719
seen in the in the Sony verse, I'll put it

1112
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:57,760
that way, not like in actual quality, but just in

1113
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,360
terms of like how silly and stupid it was. And

1114
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,119
Taylor's having a crazy.

1115
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:08,760
Speaker 1: God, do you know do you guys know who he is? Oh?

1116
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 2: My, we just said God.

1117
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna take you back to uh Jurassic Park three.

1118
00:51:17,199 --> 00:51:18,119
A guy named Billy.

1119
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,599
Speaker 2: Oh my god, are you fucking kidding me? I don't think,

1120
00:51:22,679 --> 00:51:26,119
Oh my god, Billy. He's got a lucky it's got

1121
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:30,360
his lucky strap. It is. I can totally see his face, Kate.

1122
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,119
I knew his face was familiar somewhere. That is, So

1123
00:51:33,519 --> 00:51:39,360
that's nice. You should have grabbed those wraptor eggs. My god, I.

1124
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 3: Don't think I've seen I don't think i've seen Dress

1125
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:42,039
Park three.

1126
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 2: Before.

1127
00:51:45,079 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 3: I did the first episode of that retro and then

1128
00:51:47,079 --> 00:51:48,599
just did not do the rest.

1129
00:51:49,199 --> 00:51:50,119
Speaker 2: Place to jump out.

1130
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,119
Speaker 3: I thought the another inspired choice by the costume designers here,

1131
00:51:54,159 --> 00:51:57,239
because like as I mentioned, I love the blue turtleneck

1132
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:02,000
sweater that my Boyfred had. But to give the character

1133
00:52:02,039 --> 00:52:05,320
of Rhino, who is you know, only actually Rhino that

1134
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,840
you know and love in like the last Battle the

1135
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,039
rest of it, he's just like a guy. But I

1136
00:52:11,079 --> 00:52:13,599
think the decision to give him like this small little

1137
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:18,280
backpack that was really tight. The whole movie was so dumb.

1138
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,360
It just looked so bad. But I loved it. It

1139
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,400
just had me chuckling every time I saw him. Like,

1140
00:52:23,559 --> 00:52:26,159
I don't know whose idea that was, but like if they,

1141
00:52:26,519 --> 00:52:28,480
I guess they really wanted a reason to explain that

1142
00:52:28,519 --> 00:52:30,679
he always had this like iv thing going into him.

1143
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:32,920
But like, as I said, this movie is so mystical

1144
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,639
that you could have easily not had that at all,

1145
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,079
or like made it really small and we would believe

1146
00:52:39,119 --> 00:52:41,440
it because Craven took like one sip of this potion

1147
00:52:41,519 --> 00:52:43,159
and now he has powers for the rest of his life.

1148
00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:44,800
So the fact that he had to have this stupid

1149
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,199
little backpack on to get this constant ivy was just

1150
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,159
absolutely ridiculous, and not like that it was ever a

1151
00:52:50,199 --> 00:52:52,480
plot point. It's not like that's how he became Rhino

1152
00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:54,719
because someone ripped the backpack off him and now he

1153
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,000
can't control it anymore. He just like took it off

1154
00:52:58,119 --> 00:53:00,119
at he would like unplug it and then take the

1155
00:53:00,159 --> 00:53:03,079
backpack off. It was like so weird the way it

1156
00:53:03,199 --> 00:53:07,280
was done. But yeah, once again, crazy crazy concept. Whoever

1157
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:07,880
came up with that?

1158
00:53:08,679 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, I call them my feedbags. Yeah, I hate I

1159
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,079
hated this character so so much. I was very shocked

1160
00:53:17,079 --> 00:53:20,719
about his screech that he did. There's a couple other

1161
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:22,679
moments that I think he just did something that I

1162
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,079
was not expecting. So in that sense, it was like, wow, okay,

1163
00:53:26,159 --> 00:53:30,360
well this is at least a little bit memorable. But yeah,

1164
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:33,679
I really didn't like the whole just choice about his

1165
00:53:33,679 --> 00:53:36,559
his character and his whole whoever's decision it was, whether

1166
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,800
you know, Taylor listed all the options. I was not

1167
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,559
a fan of it at all. And like when it

1168
00:53:42,599 --> 00:53:45,000
opens up, like after after he has the long hair,

1169
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:46,599
when we come back to him and he's just like

1170
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:50,119
chasing his dog on all fours, because like I kind

1171
00:53:50,119 --> 00:53:51,880
of recognized him as that character. I'm like, man, I

1172
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,039
hope he just gets popped right here by like Russell Crowe,

1173
00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:56,079
Like I I just hate this character already. And then no,

1174
00:53:56,199 --> 00:53:57,800
he's he's our right now. We're gonna be sticking with

1175
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,559
this guy for the entire film. And yeah, I didn't

1176
00:54:01,639 --> 00:54:05,280
like the whole thing. Him just taken over his feedbags

1177
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:10,360
was weird. Yeah, the big like the backpack, the super

1178
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:15,320
tight backpack. It's definitely it's different, and yeah it's it's

1179
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,760
more memorable, but uh, I just I just didn't like.

1180
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,119
It's not menacing, it's not menacine at all.

1181
00:54:20,159 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 2: I know he was. He was a very strange guy.

1182
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 4: And then yeah, I guess the rhino effect, like at

1183
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,800
the very end, it looked not as bad as maybe

1184
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,400
I would have thought, because my first experience with this

1185
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,920
character would have been from like the sixties cartoon show,

1186
00:54:37,079 --> 00:54:39,280
like like like the comic book one, where he's just

1187
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,280
like he's just like in a costume. He just got

1188
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,119
his head and he just has the rhino suit that

1189
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,280
like that is what he is. And then that version

1190
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,119
is pretty much was carried over like the PS one

1191
00:54:49,159 --> 00:54:52,119
Spider Man game and other Spider Man games is pretty

1192
00:54:52,159 --> 00:54:54,360
much that version. So that's always been my kind of

1193
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,480
Rhino in my mind at least. And then yeah, Amazing

1194
00:54:58,519 --> 00:55:00,599
Spider Man two. That just that just blew my mind.

1195
00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:03,719
I couldn't believe that they did that. And then I

1196
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,079
liked when he was the rhydo but it just like

1197
00:55:06,599 --> 00:55:08,719
the human version of him, just like all like the

1198
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,639
quirky mannerisms and everything. It just wasn't really hidden for

1199
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,320
me at all, and it was a lot of him

1200
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,519
in this movie. And because I wasn't liking it, I

1201
00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:18,639
just felt like I was just like arms Cross pouting

1202
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:20,400
like for a lot of it, and then checking my

1203
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,880
phone on like run times and oh my god, we're

1204
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,880
only forty minutes in. Okay, okay, last Sony movie. You

1205
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,039
can do this, Kirkle, Let's do it.

1206
00:55:27,079 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 2: Come on.

1207
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the really odd part because, as I mentioned,

1208
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,800
like I liked that Craven just lost to the foreigner

1209
00:55:36,599 --> 00:55:38,920
and then he kind of had this downfall. I feel

1210
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,400
like the way that they wrote how Rhino got defeated

1211
00:55:43,119 --> 00:55:45,039
was really weird that he just, yeah, I had this

1212
00:55:45,159 --> 00:55:48,880
one like hole on him. I guess that you could

1213
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,400
stab into I don't know it, just like for a

1214
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,079
video game, that makes sense, but for a movie, I

1215
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:57,840
maybe wanted something a bit smarter because obviously his skin

1216
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,679
was impenetrable to all the blades that Craven had, even

1217
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,880
though he kept trying more blades. Like I feel like,

1218
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,239
after three or four, Brooke, I'm like, okay, you could

1219
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,480
cool it with the blades. These are clearly not working.

1220
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:09,719
So I think I would have liked a more clever

1221
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,599
solution there. But like I guess, Craven's not really that

1222
00:56:12,679 --> 00:56:14,800
kind of guy. He's a very brute force kind of guy.

1223
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,599
He's not really out smart or at least this version

1224
00:56:17,639 --> 00:56:20,119
of Craven's not outsmarting people at any point. He's just

1225
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:22,079
he's just tougher.

1226
00:56:22,199 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 4: I suppose it very much felt like it was gonna

1227
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,840
be the feedbags, because we went through the whole explanation

1228
00:56:29,079 --> 00:56:31,840
of this is what takes away the power. He explained

1229
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,239
it to Dimitri. Dmitri's right there. You could do the

1230
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,239
brothers pair up right here, have Dmitri, hey, plug this in,

1231
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,159
pass it to him, does the exact same scene, does

1232
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:41,719
the one line, you know, he's choking him out and

1233
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:42,719
then he just stabs him.

1234
00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 2: But he's got the feedbag, goes human form.

1235
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 4: Then you can even have you know, you can bring

1236
00:56:47,199 --> 00:56:48,679
Dmiti with the gun and he's the one that shoots

1237
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,440
him or something, and then that's when you have Craven like, no,

1238
00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:52,639
don't do it, other than he's already fucking dead because

1239
00:56:52,679 --> 00:56:53,840
Craven did all by himself.

1240
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh sorry, good point. Because Demetrio is the one

1241
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,320
who's getting like, it's like, what's what's the word? He

1242
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,239
was he was just getting all that info from him.

1243
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,199
He was the one learning about all these bags.

1244
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's like, why did we go through all

1245
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:08,840
that explaining, like explain it if we didn't even really

1246
00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:11,239
I don't know, I guess just to explain how he

1247
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:11,960
gets the powers.

1248
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 1: But he reminded me of like reverse like Baine, but

1249
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,440
in the reverse from Batman and Robin, where you hit

1250
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,280
the button and he just turns into Bane. In this

1251
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,639
case it's, yeah, the opposite of that, because Unplugs is

1252
00:57:24,639 --> 00:57:26,079
like his meal.

1253
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,159
Speaker 2: Sack and Batman.

1254
00:57:28,679 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 4: He just calls it his venom right like it's it's

1255
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,280
like a yeah, it's funny crossover venom.

1256
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:35,119
Speaker 3: M hm.

1257
00:57:37,719 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: Oh, well, you know what, Let's take another ad break

1258
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,239
here and then we'll we'll keep on hunting. So we'll

1259
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:47,320
be right back and we are back.

1260
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:52,079
Speaker 3: Papa, let's go hunting, and let's go hunting. In the

1261
00:57:52,119 --> 00:57:54,519
Origin story about OK, talk about that a little bit.

1262
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,000
I don't think I really have much to say about

1263
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,079
the secretes. It went on way too long. I think

1264
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:02,320
they think think it was maybe important. It sets up

1265
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,360
quite a few things. Of course, it explains how Craven

1266
00:58:04,719 --> 00:58:07,519
gets his power from the potion. There, it sets up

1267
00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:10,199
the connection between him and clips So which ends up

1268
00:58:10,199 --> 00:58:13,360
being a really important connection later on. It gives you

1269
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,519
that stuff with the with the brother and then explains

1270
00:58:15,559 --> 00:58:17,599
why his brother would be so upset with him when

1271
00:58:17,639 --> 00:58:21,639
he finally does leave. Leave him there. It sets up

1272
00:58:21,639 --> 00:58:24,440
a lot with the father and that kind of relationship

1273
00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:27,599
dynamic from all three of them. So it does a

1274
00:58:27,639 --> 00:58:29,559
lot for the story. But I do feel like it

1275
00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:32,800
should have been trimmed down a little bit, and it

1276
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,320
was just not a very exciting sequence either. I guess

1277
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,679
it is the other side of it, and I don't

1278
00:58:39,719 --> 00:58:43,760
really think that the younger actor versions did a poor

1279
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,400
job at all with the acting, but yeah, I think

1280
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,920
it just should have been tightened up a little bit.

1281
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,639
I feel like that's just gonna be my criticism of

1282
00:58:51,719 --> 00:58:55,480
like every Compook movie for I don't know a while.

1283
00:58:55,519 --> 00:58:57,679
We're just so indate with these movies that like we

1284
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,599
got to speed through these origin story things, especially when

1285
00:59:00,639 --> 00:59:03,440
they're very uninteresting like this one. Like I said, it

1286
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,400
does lay the groundwork for a lot of stuff, but

1287
00:59:06,039 --> 00:59:07,880
when it doesn't really build that much at the end

1288
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,119
of the day, it's like, Okay, we don't need to

1289
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:12,840
do all this, so could have used it a shorter

1290
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:13,400
version of that.

1291
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I completely agree with the length. It felt way

1292
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,400
way too long and it went on so long that

1293
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:24,920
I actually was like, when does when do we get

1294
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,039
erent Tator Johnson, Like it seems like this guy is

1295
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:28,920
going to just carry us into the modern day.

1296
00:59:29,039 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then.

1297
00:59:29,679 --> 00:59:33,639
Speaker 4: He he gets to the point where he's like kind

1298
00:59:33,639 --> 00:59:36,639
of becoming craven. We blink and it just Errantator Johnson.

1299
00:59:36,719 --> 00:59:39,039
And what we got in between was sixteen years later,

1300
00:59:39,119 --> 00:59:42,199
and it like it, it just felt so weird to me,

1301
00:59:42,239 --> 00:59:44,400
where it's like, Okay, has all he'd been doing just

1302
00:59:44,719 --> 00:59:47,320
been assassinating people for the last sixteen years and that's

1303
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,960
how he just grew into like I guess, so it

1304
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:52,679
felt like it could have been like literally a four

1305
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:58,119
year jump, right, not sixteen years. Like Kay, the younger

1306
00:59:58,159 --> 01:00:02,280
actor was be a little bit scrawnier than what ATJ is,

1307
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,039
but like, fuck, they looked pretty similar in age. I

1308
01:00:05,679 --> 01:00:08,400
know that Anytinge Judge is over thirty, but I feel like,

1309
01:00:08,559 --> 01:00:12,400
I don't know, like not sixteen year difference between the two.

1310
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1311
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,079
Speaker 4: So that was really just shocking, I think, to go

1312
01:00:17,159 --> 01:00:20,239
from the young version to that, like it felt like

1313
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,079
it could have been much much younger of an actor

1314
01:00:23,199 --> 01:00:24,480
maybe to make that jump.

1315
01:00:24,519 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. It just for me, it felt way

1316
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,119
too close together. There.

1317
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,199
Speaker 4: The other thing that I just really I guess it

1318
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,199
just kind of planted the seeds for my hatred towards

1319
01:00:34,239 --> 01:00:40,239
the dynamic between Dimitri and Serge. Was when like we

1320
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,400
see all these scenes where Russell Crowe is just a

1321
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,320
piece of shit dad, right, like he just my sons

1322
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,360
are weak unless they're like me, we're gonna go hunt

1323
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,639
your mom's suicide herself. You can't see her because she suicided,

1324
01:00:51,679 --> 01:00:54,320
Like no funerals for people that did that, even though

1325
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,719
he's like the reason why she probably ran and like

1326
01:00:57,039 --> 01:01:02,000
mentally was unwell. So yeah, just setting up that dynamic, yes,

1327
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:05,119
Like I think that was good. I actually really liked

1328
01:01:05,159 --> 01:01:07,760
the like the acting of the young actors in that sequence,

1329
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,800
Like I thought they both were handling the news in

1330
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:14,159
different ways which would have made sense for their characters.

1331
01:01:14,159 --> 01:01:16,519
Like it seemed like Serge was really trying to like

1332
01:01:16,519 --> 01:01:18,679
stay composed, but it was obviously just like such a

1333
01:01:18,679 --> 01:01:23,440
shock to him. And then Dimitri, yeah, like obviously very devastated,

1334
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:27,599
but like it's very I don't know, just they portrayed

1335
01:01:27,599 --> 01:01:29,719
the grief really well and in unique ways, as if

1336
01:01:29,719 --> 01:01:31,599
they're not just copying each other like the actors, So

1337
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,320
that was really just noticeable for me, I think it

1338
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,000
was a great setup for like the brother the brotherly

1339
01:01:37,079 --> 01:01:40,719
bond because they're just both victims of kind of their

1340
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,800
dad's abuse and just the fucked up dynamic that they have.

1341
01:01:44,639 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 2: And that's why it.

1342
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:50,679
Speaker 4: Felt so like a major betrayal for Craven to be

1343
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:54,039
running away right like like he's completely isolating his brother.

1344
01:01:54,119 --> 01:01:56,360
It seems like he's been his brother's guard like his

1345
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,880
whole life and now he's just leaving his brother and

1346
01:01:59,559 --> 01:02:03,760
it it feels like something that is unforgivable. And like

1347
01:02:04,119 --> 01:02:05,840
when we just do the sixteen year jump, he's like

1348
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,960
still just texting him and like like shouting out right

1349
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,960
like his brother calls him as Russell Crowe. It's like, ah,

1350
01:02:12,119 --> 01:02:14,239
just kidding, oh brother, When am I gonna see you again?

1351
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,199
And it's just like what the fuck do they like

1352
01:02:16,239 --> 01:02:18,760
play Xbox and Warzone every weekend? These two, Like it

1353
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,039
just seems like they've been best buds their whole life,

1354
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,559
and it takes away so much from that impactful emotional

1355
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,519
breakaway like it should have been. Like the next time

1356
01:02:27,559 --> 01:02:30,679
we see Chameleon, he is like an assassin or something

1357
01:02:30,719 --> 01:02:33,000
like like he is his dad's perfect weapon that he

1358
01:02:33,119 --> 01:02:36,079
wanted Craven to be and that would have just been

1359
01:02:36,119 --> 01:02:39,599
so much more intriguing than Reek, who we meet, you know,

1360
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:44,639
just fucking doing his Tom Petty whatever the hell impersonations

1361
01:02:44,639 --> 01:02:47,039
that he's doing, and it is, Yeah, it's his club.

1362
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:49,840
Now it's his dad's club. Like his whole life is

1363
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:53,760
just under his dad's thumb. And yeah, I really hated

1364
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,039
how they were, Like, Okay, there might have been some

1365
01:02:56,199 --> 01:03:00,880
like held back anger that that has towards them, but

1366
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,920
it just felt like they were brothers. And it seems

1367
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,199
like he sees them every single year on his birthday, right,

1368
01:03:06,199 --> 01:03:08,480
like they even say that, So I'm assuming it's been

1369
01:03:08,519 --> 01:03:09,960
that way for sixteen years.

1370
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. I I'm so upset with that.

1371
01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:15,199
Speaker 1: That applies to the father too. I thought we're gonna

1372
01:03:15,199 --> 01:03:18,000
get this big review when the father, like Russell cor

1373
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,719
finally sees Craven. But no, he just walks in like ah,

1374
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:24,480
both my sons together. It gives like a bottle and

1375
01:03:24,519 --> 01:03:26,280
they have a drink. It's like, well, this is just

1376
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,000
so mad son. You won't hug me, but you just

1377
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,199
shake my head. It's just such a lame. I thought

1378
01:03:32,239 --> 01:03:35,440
it would be a very climactic high end moment for

1379
01:03:35,559 --> 01:03:37,960
our characters. But no, like you said, yeah, just there.

1380
01:03:38,679 --> 01:03:41,800
He's seeing them every year. He's like, oh, Craven's probably like, oh,

1381
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,320
I'm here for this. You know, I'm I'm traveling the world.

1382
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,800
I'm here, I'm in Russia, I'm over here and you know, China,

1383
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,199
and I'm in Japan and this guy's just still in

1384
01:03:50,199 --> 01:03:53,880
his club, just doing his own thing. But sorry.

1385
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 3: One quick thing on the club that I found very

1386
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,000
funny is like, uh, Sergey Hits it's up his brother

1387
01:04:00,159 --> 01:04:02,480
in the house and he's like, oh, is that what

1388
01:04:02,519 --> 01:04:04,920
you're gonna be dressed up as for my party? And

1389
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,760
he's like, yeah, I guess, so we can just stay in.

1390
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:09,639
He's like, no, we have to go out. It's my birthday,

1391
01:04:09,639 --> 01:04:11,880
on your birthday, we can stay in. Then they like

1392
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,719
go to the club and they're the only ones there

1393
01:04:13,719 --> 01:04:15,800
and it's just the two of them, and it's like, what,

1394
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,960
why didn't you just stay at home and like your

1395
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,039
dad would come visit you? Like I thought they were

1396
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:22,159
gonna go with like this huge thrasher, but like it

1397
01:04:22,239 --> 01:04:24,039
was just the two of them anyway, So that was

1398
01:04:24,159 --> 01:04:26,440
very unnecessary. Should talk of his brother.

1399
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 4: There there's two people leaving though, right, Craven had enough

1400
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,320
time to just totally fuck up that whole guy.

1401
01:04:31,639 --> 01:04:34,079
Speaker 1: Oh that was funny the fidelity situation.

1402
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was so goofy.

1403
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: Later the moment too, when he kind of like rebels

1404
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,000
against his dad when he's in that origin moment and

1405
01:04:44,039 --> 01:04:47,039
his dad just has a fucking mountain in this room.

1406
01:04:47,679 --> 01:04:49,960
But he gets so pissed and he yells at his

1407
01:04:50,039 --> 01:04:53,400
dad and he storms off. He goes upstairs to his

1408
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,679
bedroom and his brother Dimitrius walks, you like, what's going on?

1409
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,920
And then it was just the long shot of just

1410
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,519
Craven just tryut like oh, just like fucking like puts

1411
01:05:05,559 --> 01:05:07,679
his hand like on him and just pushes him and

1412
01:05:07,719 --> 01:05:11,679
slams the door. It was so fucking goofy. I goes laughing.

1413
01:05:12,119 --> 01:05:14,679
Speaker 3: And then even more to that, like then he does

1414
01:05:14,719 --> 01:05:16,880
this whole thing where he's stealthying out of the house

1415
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:18,920
and like the thing crumbles and he falls to the ground.

1416
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,320
Then he's leaving. It's on like his brother was just outside.

1417
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,000
It's like, why didn't you just walk up the front door.

1418
01:05:23,599 --> 01:05:26,159
Why do you have to sneak out? This doesn't make sense.

1419
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, this weird choices, weird word choices goofy uh.

1420
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 3: I just have two more things here. I think one

1421
01:05:36,159 --> 01:05:37,760
set piece we haven't really talked about. It's kind of

1422
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,039
a minor one, but it's like the Turkish monastery where

1423
01:05:40,039 --> 01:05:43,119
he goes when he finds the true location of Dima Uh.

1424
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,039
I don't know. I had some fun with that, just

1425
01:05:45,119 --> 01:05:48,039
him like scaling these buildings and like doing the stealth

1426
01:05:48,079 --> 01:05:51,320
stuff using the darts to like knock people out. I

1427
01:05:51,639 --> 01:05:53,800
love when he's like going up the stairs behind those

1428
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,199
two guys and like first they crouches and then he

1429
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,519
like goes into the wall. I'm like, there's no way

1430
01:05:58,519 --> 01:05:59,960
that would work, but it kind of just shows like

1431
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:02,639
how it's.

1432
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:05,239
Speaker 4: How like the arcane stealth mechanics work, right, You're crawling

1433
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,280
right behind them, like there's no way that they don't

1434
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:08,519
feel my presence, right, and.

1435
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 3: They like they turn their head a little bit, but

1436
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,000
then they just go back to their NPC guard duty.

1437
01:06:13,719 --> 01:06:15,920
So I like that sequence. I thought the part when

1438
01:06:16,119 --> 01:06:19,679
when when the foreigner gets there and he finds the dart,

1439
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,440
I think it's it's cool in theory what he does there.

1440
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,559
How he's like, oh, this dart has like this ancient

1441
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:27,639
like flower liquid on it that is only grown in

1442
01:06:27,719 --> 01:06:31,440
like a one comet, like one kilometer radius on the

1443
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:33,880
whole planet, and that's how they find his base. Is

1444
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:37,880
like that is a massive leap in logic. But you know,

1445
01:06:38,039 --> 01:06:39,719
like they should have like, okay, that's how they used

1446
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:41,880
to like step one to get close to him and

1447
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:42,719
then they could narrow it down.

1448
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:44,039
Speaker 1: But it was goofy.

1449
01:06:45,039 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 3: I think it was like there was an interesting concept there,

1450
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:48,960
but then it was just a little too a little

1451
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,639
too cheesy. But I I overall, I like the look

1452
01:06:51,639 --> 01:06:54,400
at that set that set piece, not location, and I

1453
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,599
don't know, I had fun with it for what it was.

1454
01:06:57,039 --> 01:06:58,199
It was very short as well.

1455
01:06:59,039 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I liked.

1456
01:07:03,679 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: You said you have another point there.

1457
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. I guess my one last thing is and you

1458
01:07:07,519 --> 01:07:11,599
mentioned it briefly there. Taylor was once foreigner hit them

1459
01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:13,679
with that poison dar and he's hallucinating the spiders are

1460
01:07:13,679 --> 01:07:16,719
coming down to me. That is like a tasteful connection

1461
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,119
to the Spider Man content that this like character kind

1462
01:07:20,159 --> 01:07:22,320
of originates from. We've seen some really cheesy stuff, like

1463
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:24,519
all the way back to Morbius. Remember we like in

1464
01:07:24,559 --> 01:07:27,639
the trailers that were like Spider Man wanted posters on

1465
01:07:27,679 --> 01:07:29,960
the wall and then they cut them from the final movie.

1466
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:32,320
They weren't even in there. And then like Madam Webb

1467
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,000
really went overboard with some of these these connections there

1468
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,159
that just feel like, oh, you guys just want Spider

1469
01:07:37,199 --> 01:07:39,559
Man and here so bad, don't you. But I actually

1470
01:07:39,559 --> 01:07:41,199
thought this was like a really good one. This is

1471
01:07:41,239 --> 01:07:43,639
something that like when we get to the sequel, if

1472
01:07:43,679 --> 01:07:46,639
that were to happen in an alternate universe, in a multiverse,

1473
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:48,760
and you have this and he like thinks back on

1474
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,159
this moment when he was really freaked out by these spiders,

1475
01:07:51,199 --> 01:07:53,800
that could be some interesting connection there. But yeah, I

1476
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,599
thought that was kind of tasteful and like a nice

1477
01:07:56,719 --> 01:07:59,199
use of that without it just being like a too

1478
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:02,280
cheesy of connection or making you think of like, man,

1479
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,840
I prefer like in that scene, I wasn't thinking, man,

1480
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:06,440
I wish this was a Spider Man movie, and the

1481
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,079
way that we've wished that for so many of these

1482
01:08:08,079 --> 01:08:11,679
other things. So I thought that was that was well done.

1483
01:08:12,559 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, that's actually a really really good point

1484
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:16,880
to mention there. There was a lot of daily Bugle

1485
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:17,520
shots too.

1486
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:21,319
Speaker 3: Oh I miss those. Actually, there was two.

1487
01:08:21,199 --> 01:08:24,520
Speaker 4: Of them that I noticed when the Eclipso was like

1488
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,239
just I mean, oh my god, you just reminded me. Actually,

1489
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:31,399
So Craven finds her at the funeral right for her

1490
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,880
friend's Okay, yeah, he's the Hunter. He finds people, and

1491
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:36,560
then they like they like chat like this is what

1492
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,039
I do. I murder people. Do you want to help

1493
01:08:38,039 --> 01:08:40,079
me murder people? Like got to think about that. I'm

1494
01:08:40,119 --> 01:08:43,039
a lawyer, you know, but I'll think about it. And

1495
01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:45,680
then the scene is just her like doing research on

1496
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,079
the Hunter and like, wow, this guy kills people, and

1497
01:08:48,119 --> 01:08:49,800
then we and then like the next shot is just

1498
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:50,880
her meeting up with him again.

1499
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:52,039
Speaker 2: It's like, man, I looked into.

1500
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 4: You like it was just such a weird like jump

1501
01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:59,880
and I felt like multiple times in this movie where

1502
01:09:00,159 --> 01:09:02,399
fast traveling, like like we don't really even have to

1503
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,319
explain about how we are getting to places, and it

1504
01:09:05,359 --> 01:09:08,319
seems like we're jumping pretty far away, like you.

1505
01:09:08,279 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 2: Know here in North America.

1506
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,039
Speaker 4: I kind of just know my general geography. I know

1507
01:09:12,119 --> 01:09:14,279
some things in Europe, but like I don't think like

1508
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:18,199
it's that easy to just bounce from like like the

1509
01:09:19,039 --> 01:09:19,920
Siberia too.

1510
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,359
Speaker 1: These guys on plane, he's got Ellie just.

1511
01:09:23,279 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 4: On standby is she's like an NPC character just always

1512
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:28,600
ready to go. You know, you hit one button and

1513
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:30,800
she's just there, ready to go, and you never find

1514
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:31,720
out any more about her.

1515
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,399
Speaker 2: She's just ready to go. She's there, and uh.

1516
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 4: So that it was noticeable for me, I think just

1517
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:39,680
because I was already disliking everything that was going on.

1518
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,439
It's like, I'm not gonna fucking like, this isn't gonna

1519
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,399
be the one thing that ruins the movie for me, these.

1520
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 2: Weird logistics of travel.

1521
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 4: But the other one that I just kind of burst

1522
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:53,680
out laughing on or at was when he runs away

1523
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,039
from home and he just goes to a ship and

1524
01:09:56,079 --> 01:09:58,279
he has this dialogue with again, like a very.

1525
01:09:58,159 --> 01:09:59,319
Speaker 2: NPC type character.

1526
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 4: He's like, so you run away, Yeah, get on, brother,

1527
01:10:03,079 --> 01:10:05,000
Like let's go. Let's just fucking go. You don't have

1528
01:10:05,039 --> 01:10:07,319
to pay me anything. I'll just take you on. I'll

1529
01:10:07,359 --> 01:10:12,239
just do like an illegal stowaway situation for no no payment,

1530
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:14,479
like I have no attachment to you, like, yeah, let's

1531
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:14,960
just do it.

1532
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 2: And we never see that guy again.

1533
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 4: Like it's just it's just so simple and easy how

1534
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:22,359
this stuff happens, Like whether he has to find Clipso

1535
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:24,319
right away or we already talked about it. But when

1536
01:10:24,359 --> 01:10:27,720
Clipso just has all these people for information, like instantly,

1537
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,960
I have no cases going on right now, I am

1538
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,399
ready to just be your person to help you murder people.

1539
01:10:33,119 --> 01:10:35,800
It like it was just kind of comedic that they

1540
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:38,359
didn't even really attempt to explain any of these things.

1541
01:10:38,399 --> 01:10:41,920
It's just uh no, that's that's not even bothernsying that

1542
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,039
people won't focus on that. Well, the love are R

1543
01:10:44,159 --> 01:10:47,439
rated whole, like like fight scenes, right, they're gonna level

1544
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,279
the violence and brutality of this movie has, which is

1545
01:10:50,319 --> 01:10:52,880
extremely tamed and barely even R rated.

1546
01:10:52,960 --> 01:11:02,319
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna stop now. It enough negativity for anything.

1547
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,159
Speaker 1: There is. So there there is an interesting thing that

1548
01:11:04,359 --> 01:11:09,680
was happening here where this humming kept reoccurring throughout the movie,

1549
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:11,359
this humming tune.

1550
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:13,600
Speaker 2: Do you guys remember that this is his mom right,

1551
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:14,520
That's what it was supposed to be.

1552
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,079
Speaker 4: I would imagine when because when he first runs away

1553
01:11:17,159 --> 01:11:20,359
goes to the hidden camp, he hears it and then

1554
01:11:20,399 --> 01:11:22,640
he's just dreaming about it.

1555
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,119
Speaker 1: Yes, and it probably is actually humming it in retrospect,

1556
01:11:26,119 --> 01:11:29,880
I shouldn't connect that dot. But the tune was so familiar.

1557
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:31,960
I was like Okay, I've heard this theme before this

1558
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:36,680
this humming. It's the Huntresses theme that she hums in

1559
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:41,479
Dead by day all. Yeah, dead by Daylight. So you

1560
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,479
guys know that Huntress character of the villain, you the

1561
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:48,800
exact same husre, And so I looked into it further

1562
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,399
and found that, Okay, this because the Huntress is a Russian.

1563
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 2: Hunter, so there's that.

1564
01:11:55,119 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 1: But it's actually old lulla by named by you, but

1565
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,239
you ski by you, and it's old Russian la la

1566
01:12:02,279 --> 01:12:05,960
bye ah. So it's just I thought, yeah, that was

1567
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,880
pretty pretty neat. I'm gonna play I have a little

1568
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:11,479
bit of a snake snippet here I'm gonna play for you.

1569
01:12:11,399 --> 01:12:12,560
Speaker 3: Guys, copyrighted.

1570
01:12:20,239 --> 01:12:20,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.

1571
01:12:21,119 --> 01:12:22,359
Speaker 2: That's terrifying.

1572
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 3: Funny. That reminded me of one one thing I love

1573
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:29,800
when he's like in sleeping at his brother's apartment and

1574
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:32,199
he just like he hears just like the air conditioner.

1575
01:12:32,239 --> 01:12:34,960
I thought that was the sound of like people coming

1576
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,680
to invade the house, but no, it's just air conditioner.

1577
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,399
And like he can't stand like any technology stuff like that,

1578
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:43,800
Like he has to go sleep in the grass. So

1579
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:44,720
that was funny.

1580
01:12:45,319 --> 01:12:49,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, the one scene that actually got like a like

1581
01:12:49,319 --> 01:12:51,319
it was a tempting comedy and it worked for me.

1582
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:53,159
Was when he's going for the elevator and then he

1583
01:12:53,199 --> 01:12:55,079
like throws the blade gets in there. He's like, I

1584
01:12:55,119 --> 01:12:57,760
was trying to get the door for you know, you weren't.

1585
01:12:58,159 --> 01:13:00,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's like, what do you do? I'm a hunter?

1586
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 2: What do you mean? People look, I'm just looking right

1587
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:05,399
at them. Yeah.

1588
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:06,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good.

1589
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:11,399
Speaker 1: Cool. Well, final thoughts ratings close it.

1590
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 3: Up, chart me down for a five out of ten

1591
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:17,520
on this. Yeah, I think there's enough in here that

1592
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:20,279
I enjoyed. Like I just as a tailor, as you said,

1593
01:13:20,319 --> 01:13:24,520
like just turn off your brain, you know, theater experience.

1594
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,199
I had a good enough time. But obviously when we

1595
01:13:28,279 --> 01:13:31,000
break it down here, like the story kind of sucks,

1596
01:13:31,279 --> 01:13:34,119
the writings really bad. But yeah, there's some action. I like,

1597
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:38,079
some characters and dynamics that worked for me, some fun

1598
01:13:38,159 --> 01:13:41,359
like weird characters like the Foreigners definitely a highlight for me.

1599
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,399
So ATJ does a good job and bring them back

1600
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:46,159
in the MCU Sure why not throw them in there?

1601
01:13:46,159 --> 01:13:49,960
I don't care. So yeah, I think the five's fair.

1602
01:13:50,359 --> 01:13:52,840
If anything, it's generous, So I'm feeling generous tonight.

1603
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:58,079
Speaker 4: I'm not feeling generous tonight. I'm gonna dick a good

1604
01:13:58,079 --> 01:13:58,920
one and a half.

1605
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:03,600
Speaker 2: On this one. I don't know, I was thinking about

1606
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,880
a one just because this made me so angry, like

1607
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,239
like and again, like I don't know what all these

1608
01:14:09,279 --> 01:14:09,800
factors are.

1609
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 4: Just maybe it's just because I thought my bar was

1610
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:14,880
so low, but it just wasn't low enough, and it

1611
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:16,199
really my bar was.

1612
01:14:16,119 --> 01:14:18,640
Speaker 3: Super low after seeing the Rotten Tomatoes earlier today, like

1613
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:21,680
this movie is gonna be atrocious, and it was slightly

1614
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:23,359
better than I think.

1615
01:14:23,359 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 4: I've just been getting mad too about movie budgets lately

1616
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:26,720
and just thinking about.

1617
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:31,119
Speaker 3: You're an Oscar now, so you can't Sony Verse stuff.

1618
01:14:31,319 --> 01:14:34,159
Speaker 4: Just just seeing that studios are allowing those types of

1619
01:14:34,239 --> 01:14:38,199
numbers and releasing stuff like this. It's just like firesome people, man,

1620
01:14:38,279 --> 01:14:41,119
like this is this is insane how we're getting to

1621
01:14:41,199 --> 01:14:47,199
stuff like this. But yes, exactly.

1622
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,279
Speaker 2: Not the actual you know, all the lighting.

1623
01:14:49,039 --> 01:14:54,159
Speaker 3: Cruise costs atj fire the animators, fire the best boys.

1624
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:57,279
Speaker 2: I'm just angry and he did right now.

1625
01:14:57,680 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 4: You know, come next week, I'll probably forget about this

1626
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:01,199
entire experience.

1627
01:15:01,239 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, the.

1628
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,399
Speaker 3: Foreigner wipe your mind a little bit.

1629
01:15:07,359 --> 01:15:10,359
Speaker 1: One and a half. Wow. Oh well, I'm gonna I'm

1630
01:15:10,359 --> 01:15:12,239
gonna bring us back up a little bit. I'm gonna

1631
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:15,600
I'm gonna pop a You know, I wasn't gonna say six.

1632
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:16,439
I'm gonna go six and a.

1633
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:21,560
Speaker 2: Half, one and a half with the additive number of me. Yeah.

1634
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:26,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that there's there is some fun in

1635
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:30,079
this movie. But again, a lot of inconsistencies, a lot

1636
01:15:30,119 --> 01:15:32,920
of jumps that just leave a lot of holes, and

1637
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,319
the pacing was all over the place. But at the

1638
01:15:35,399 --> 01:15:38,520
end of the day, I think that it was a

1639
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:41,720
fun enough time in the theater. Again, like I said

1640
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:44,159
at the start, though, I mean, if you've if you've

1641
01:15:44,159 --> 01:15:46,880
been listening and you don't care about the spoilers and

1642
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:50,039
you haven't seen it yet, like you don't have to

1643
01:15:50,039 --> 01:15:52,439
go see this in theaters. I'm just gonna reaffirm with that,

1644
01:15:53,079 --> 01:15:56,000
wait till it comes on streaming at home, because there's

1645
01:15:56,239 --> 01:15:59,119
there's no urgency to go see this. Yes, Aaron Taylor Johnson,

1646
01:15:59,119 --> 01:16:00,880
he's one of my favorite acts. I think he just

1647
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,600
he does a fantastic job in this with what he

1648
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:07,800
can do because the writing is questionable. But I do

1649
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,479
think that there are some chemistries in here that do

1650
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,600
work really really well, and some things that they really

1651
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:16,279
try to make great, but it just does not it

1652
01:16:16,319 --> 01:16:18,800
doesn't take off the landing strip. And it's very unfortunate

1653
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,079
that ultimately this is just going to go down as

1654
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:25,159
being a little bit of a I don't want to

1655
01:16:25,159 --> 01:16:29,920
say dumpster fire, but not a great ending to what

1656
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,119
Sony was trying to create with their own Sony verse.

1657
01:16:32,279 --> 01:16:35,520
And it's unfortunate because you know they they were trying

1658
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:38,680
to make something for themselves, but you want to go

1659
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:40,680
out on your own terms, and not going out on

1660
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,640
the terms of the fandom just literally forcing you to

1661
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:46,600
close your doors. And that's what is going to happen here. Well,

1662
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:47,720
that's what has happened.

1663
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:50,960
Speaker 4: So I would have walked in like the Beekeeper, you

1664
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:52,479
know that scene Taylor when he goes in with the

1665
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:54,640
gas cans and just burn the whole place down.

1666
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 2: If they were seeing.

1667
01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 1: The oh, everyone was like clapping, and then they noticed, like,

1668
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:00,000
who's this guy just standing here?

1669
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:06,680
Speaker 4: Oh man, you're reminded me when when he's walking with

1670
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,840
the calypso and that fucking just random Jaguarre just comes

1671
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:11,640
out of the bush and they just wrestle, and like

1672
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:14,720
I was waiting for like a them to like start playing,

1673
01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:16,560
you know, as if it's like a like a homie

1674
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,399
that he meets up with or and then she.

1675
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:21,640
Speaker 2: Just like fucks off. He's like, yeah, that's what I thought, I'm.

1676
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 4: The hunter, and then she's like, you're so weird, like

1677
01:17:24,079 --> 01:17:26,640
you just found that out now, and then they keep walking.

1678
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:27,359
Speaker 2: I'm like, what a.

1679
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:30,680
Speaker 3: Fucking weird Especially if he was established like we've seen him,

1680
01:17:31,079 --> 01:17:33,640
can he can lock eyes and like yeah, like that

1681
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:36,079
wolf in the opening sequence, he just like makes the

1682
01:17:36,119 --> 01:17:38,039
wolf tame in a second. So I thought he was

1683
01:17:38,039 --> 01:17:40,840
gonna do anything other than what actually happened.

1684
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:45,159
Speaker 1: Being tame would have made sense because he even says too,

1685
01:17:45,279 --> 01:17:47,760
like I've known her since she was a cub. Yeah,

1686
01:17:48,199 --> 01:17:50,840
but she's still she's just she tries to, yeah.

1687
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 3: Kill her. Probably kills the cub's mom and dad or something.

1688
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:58,239
Speaker 1: Probably, Yeah, very weird. But there you have it, Ladies

1689
01:17:58,279 --> 01:18:02,960
and gentlemen. Craven review In the books, you boys will

1690
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:05,159
be back for or hear them at some point. If

1691
01:18:05,159 --> 01:18:07,600
we got After Nine coming this weekend and create me

1692
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:09,560
Kirkland doing creature commandos, so.

1693
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:13,239
Speaker 2: That'll be a lot of fun, potentially potential solo episode.

1694
01:18:13,239 --> 01:18:17,359
Speaker 1: We'll see yeah, so it will be lots lots of

1695
01:18:17,399 --> 01:18:23,319
good stuff coming the feeds. Oh yeah, we'll see you

1696
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:26,319
uh in the search car boyebye.

1697
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:30,560
Speaker 4: I can't wait to drop that on Travis on a

1698
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:31,520
cast and he's back.