Speaker 1: Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Speaker 1: Barbary Lane. Welcome to a special episode of Full Circle
Speaker 1: the Podcast. Today we're visiting with artistic director Deborah Block
Speaker 1: and actors Arianna Glee and Scott Career from Theater Exile
Speaker 1: in South Philadelphia. We recently saw their play Job and
Speaker 1: it stuck with me. What an incredibly intense experience. We're
Speaker 1: really excited to talk with you.
Speaker 2: I am your host Charles Tyson Jr.
Speaker 1: And I'm your host Martha Madrigal. Welcome to the Full
Speaker 1: Circle Table. Hey, how are you well? Yeah, all speak
Speaker 1: at once, It's fine.
Speaker 3: Hello.
Speaker 1: We're the day before Thanksgiving, so that's exciting, right, It's
Speaker 1: wonderful to have you all together. I have so many questions,
Speaker 1: how about you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So first I would definitely like to talk about
Speaker 2: a job, because Yo, that show was masterfully done and
Speaker 2: it is a rollercoaster and I just I guess Debora
Speaker 2: would be the one to start this off with. Tell
Speaker 2: us about job, what it is about?
Speaker 3: What it's about? Oh No, it's a scary question because
Speaker 3: it's about so much. It depends how you enter it.
Speaker 3: But a woman walks into a therapist office wanting to
Speaker 3: get her job back is the simplest answer to that question.
Speaker 3: And it's also about discovering truth and hiding and revealing
Speaker 3: truth at everyone's own terms. It's about that as well.
Speaker 3: And it's about facing what you think is maybe evil,
Speaker 3: or facing fears and challenges and how well you you
Speaker 3: do that and don't do that? And can you be
Speaker 3: your best self? And who are you versus who people
Speaker 3: think you are? Is what people see who you really are.
Speaker 3: I think the play asks all of those questions and
Speaker 3: answers a.
Speaker 4: Couple of them. It really does.
Speaker 1: And you know, I went between the two of y'all
Speaker 1: deciding who I loved and who I hated. It was
Speaker 1: that you did and it changed from moment to moment,
Speaker 1: you know, I am going to say. You know, And
Speaker 1: having having done theater many many years ago, the fact
Speaker 1: that two actors can take a stage and hold an
Speaker 1: audience captive for the entire length of the show, that's
Speaker 1: that's no small task. And what the two of you did,
Speaker 1: it's got to bring you out by the time each night.
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you how do you all regroup?
Speaker 1: That's this's my first question, all right, Anna? How do
Speaker 1: you how do you where do you like, do you
Speaker 1: shake it off?
Speaker 4: What do you?
Speaker 5: I think it was especially wonderful to work on material
Speaker 5: like this with Scott because I think if you get too.
Speaker 6: In your own head about.
Speaker 5: The self sacrificial nature of acting or whatever it might be,
Speaker 5: rather than where you actually are in reality.
Speaker 6: I mean, I was getting to do the thing I
Speaker 6: love most in the world with a.
Speaker 5: Phenomenal other actor, and every time we walked off the stage,
Speaker 5: the first thing out of Scott's mouth would always be
Speaker 5: something positive about what we just did, which is a.
Speaker 7: Really beautiful trait. Yes, partner, and especially when it's only
Speaker 7: us in the show. So I think there's I look
Speaker 7: at this show as a true thriller in how it's created,
Speaker 7: which means we go to very dark places. But there's
Speaker 7: also this energy that comes from the audience that when
Speaker 7: we perform as actors.
Speaker 6: I won't speak for Scott, but when.
Speaker 5: I'm performing, I go, oh my gosh, that's exhilarating. That's
Speaker 5: amazing to feel people lean in and really listening and
Speaker 5: have an investment in the story, both because of some
Speaker 5: of the ethical, moral, you know, very painful things it
Speaker 5: talks about, but also because they're surprised because there's a
Speaker 5: twist because there's really jump scares in moments they didn't expect.
Speaker 1: I had no idea where we were going. I got
Speaker 1: to tell you, I had no idea where you were
Speaker 1: taking me. And yeah, and I sat there just and Scott,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you do this every night either,
Speaker 1: because that's a lot to carry.
Speaker 8: Well. Yeah, I just first of all, it starts in
Speaker 8: the room and rehearsal, and we had a very dead runs,
Speaker 8: a very very supportive, safe and collaborative room and and
Speaker 8: we you know, having that kind of security and trust
Speaker 8: is vital when you're working on material like this. And yes,
Speaker 8: to echo what Arianna said, performing with Ariana was an
Speaker 8: enormous pleasure and we sort of hit it off right
Speaker 8: from the beginning as performers. And uh, it's a lot
Speaker 8: like like the live It's a lot like playing music
Speaker 8: with someone even though like you know the songs and
Speaker 8: the lyrics, but you're playing live in front of an audience.
Speaker 8: Something happens and you're kind of adjusting and you know
Speaker 8: in the moment, and that's sort of what it felt like.
Speaker 8: And that's to me, really really fun. And so it
Speaker 8: was not difficult coming down I think or you know,
Speaker 8: just in general, I'm kind of like that, I leave
Speaker 8: it at the door. But working on a play as
Speaker 8: good as this, with artists as good as these is
Speaker 8: just fun. Period.
Speaker 4: It's gotta be. It's gotta be.
Speaker 1: But I just you know, I'm asking obviously from my
Speaker 1: own personal but but I would absorb, you know, a character,
Speaker 1: and I would think I would need a huge.
Speaker 5: I will say, I have a sweet little dog that
Speaker 5: I was able to bring with me to Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: Oh good, yeah, she's over there.
Speaker 6: So I do.
Speaker 9: I think in my personal life I felt an effect
Speaker 9: in that I wouldn't watch super violent things. Most of
Speaker 9: my YouTube most of my YouTube life during this production
Speaker 9: was more dog videos, even though I already have a dog.
Speaker 9: Like there's little things like that where it's like, okay,
Speaker 9: let's let's take care of what we put into our
Speaker 9: head because we already know very strong images from the
Speaker 9: show or there, and I would try to not get
Speaker 9: overwhelmed in that way.
Speaker 5: But you know, I think that's that's true for most
Speaker 5: people in life. It's just you know, when you're a
Speaker 5: little bit stressed in one place, you're gonna take care
Speaker 5: of yourself in another way by giving yourself a break.
Speaker 6: On what you're consuming on the internet.
Speaker 4: I hope, Yeah, you have to.
Speaker 1: You know, the concept of just the work that your
Speaker 1: character did needs to get back to.
Speaker 4: So compelling.
Speaker 1: And you know, we start off with this sort of
Speaker 1: I don't know, slightly unhinged person, but then it's like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, how would any human and you carry
Speaker 1: that so well to like, yeah, just you know, how
Speaker 1: does someone carry so much in this world?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: And I don't think I'm giving away too much to
Speaker 1: say it. You know, it's about knowing information most folks
Speaker 1: don't have access to slash shouldn't have and shouldn't and
Speaker 1: perhaps no one should. And then what do we do
Speaker 1: with it? And how do we how do we hold
Speaker 1: that as humans? Deb Were you the person who chose
Speaker 1: the play?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I was. I always work with a
Speaker 3: group of people, but yees, yeah selected the play. Was
Speaker 3: fortunate to see it in New York in the Broadway run,
Speaker 3: and immediately felt that it would benefit from the intimacy
Speaker 3: that theater exile provides because I always want to find
Speaker 3: a show that is better because it's in an intimate space.
Speaker 3: Yes somehow, yeah, And so I really felt that it
Speaker 3: would that sort of experience as and I said, it's
Speaker 3: a thriller that sort of intimacy and have an audience
Speaker 3: right there and literally feel the sounds that are going
Speaker 3: on around them. I thought it would benefit from it.
Speaker 1: I felt like I couldn't get up and leave. I
Speaker 1: can't go. We all we all have to sit here
Speaker 1: right now. And that's part of it, partly because of
Speaker 1: the space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you mention your choice for intimate plays
Speaker 2: that can exist in an intimate space, and I have.
Speaker 2: I've only seen a handful of productions from Theater Exile.
Speaker 2: Loved every one of them, but every one of them
Speaker 2: has been exactly that intimate taking place in one location.
Speaker 2: And if I may really fucked up and it's low key,
Speaker 2: what I come to expect, and is that the the
Speaker 2: fucked upness, is that something that you you go you
Speaker 2: look for in each play or that's just a happy
Speaker 2: accident for me in the times that I've won.
Speaker 3: No, I think that's that's a little bit of of
Speaker 3: our DNA. We like, I really like to dig into
Speaker 3: the human condition. We like things to feel timely, to
Speaker 3: feel like current, like we should be seeing this right now,
Speaker 3: that it makes sense that we're watching it. Right now.
Speaker 3: But when you get into the truth of the human condition,
Speaker 3: we're messy there, and and and we all have a
Speaker 3: little fucked upness within us, and most of us, I
Speaker 3: think try and put the good face and do our
Speaker 3: best journey. I think both of these characters we're trying
Speaker 3: to be their best selves through the whole journey, because
Speaker 3: I think that's what we try to do. But when
Speaker 3: you reveal what's going on underneath, it gets complicated and
Speaker 3: messy and dirty. And I don't think we can fix
Speaker 3: things or understand things if we don't dive into that.
Speaker 3: So I'm not surprised that of the handful of things
Speaker 3: there was a through line of fucked upness.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, So it wasn't just a happy accident, Okay, No, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, I mean there might be some things that you
Speaker 3: wouldn't describe that way. But I don't know, Scott, You know,
Speaker 3: our work is as well as anyone. What do you think.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I like that that Exile chooses plays that challenge
Speaker 8: and engage with you. You know, it is not you
Speaker 8: don't go to theater Exile to be nostalgic or to
Speaker 8: be you know, modified, or or you know, have you know, nice,
Speaker 8: easy experience, but it's always entertaining and engaging and sort
Speaker 8: of uh, asks you to look at things from a
Speaker 8: different perspective, ask you to re examine things that you
Speaker 8: thought you understood really well and uh. And so it's
Speaker 8: and again the audience knows why they're there and is
Speaker 8: excited to be there, and that's very gratifying to be
Speaker 8: a part of.
Speaker 2: Just don't come expecting forty second street.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I said, said wrong with forty seconds, no second?
Speaker 8: Who doesn't want to watch you know, incredible tap dancing
Speaker 8: for two hours?
Speaker 4: That's not this?
Speaker 2: Ain't that.
Speaker 1: We got outside and Charles said, well, and I said,
Speaker 1: that was not a musical. That's kind of where I was.
Speaker 1: That was not a musical.
Speaker 4: Music, not even no.
Speaker 2: Not even a fossy production.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I think we talked all the
Speaker 1: way home just about you know, just unpacking it. And
Speaker 1: I think engaged is the right word. You know, it
Speaker 1: was so engaging and it led to so much thought
Speaker 1: and consideration, and again masterfully and very humanly played in
Speaker 1: the ways that we have a mask, in the ways
Speaker 1: that we present one way and can can often very
Speaker 1: much be another. And what happens when that's confronted. You
Speaker 1: know what happens when that's explored in front of us
Speaker 1: in real time when we can't get up, because I
Speaker 1: really I was riveted the entire time. So yeah, engaging
Speaker 1: is I think the right word that I've always kind
Speaker 1: of put to Theater Exile, that that's what I expect
Speaker 1: and never disappoint. And that was actually the difference.
Speaker 2: Seeing this last show with you. That was the first
Speaker 2: time because I always used to go before we got together,
Speaker 2: go to things by myself. So after I experienced what
Speaker 2: you guys gave, normally have to sit with it by myself.
Speaker 2: It was good to be able to express with someone
Speaker 2: else for a change, because whocha like, just to give
Speaker 2: you an idea, Like the first thing I ever saw
Speaker 2: I don't even remember how many years ago was Bug
Speaker 2: and that show. Well i'd seen the I'd seen the
Speaker 2: movie first, which is why I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: they're doing that, and so yeah, same thing. You get
Speaker 2: that human condition, who are we really? The mask falling
Speaker 2: off and what looks what does it look like underneath?
Speaker 2: I like that through line.
Speaker 4: I know that.
Speaker 2: You know there's an entire season's offering. Uh from Theater
Speaker 2: Exile Debora talk to us about you know, what are
Speaker 2: the other things that are going to be coming at us.
Speaker 1: Job has officially closed, now, am I right about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Job closed on on Sunday. We were thrilled that the
Speaker 3: playwright joined us on the end and the director New
Speaker 3: York joined us for the final production, and that was
Speaker 3: really lovely. We were they were very happy with our production,
Speaker 3: which made me very happy.
Speaker 2: You've got a very more recommendation.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 3: We did, We did, and I think everyone did a
Speaker 3: great job. I think the design team was just yes,
Speaker 3: just spot on. You walk in and you think, you
Speaker 3: know what that space and is beautiful, inviting, and it
Speaker 3: just transforms in such a dramatic way. So I think
Speaker 3: everyone did just a fantastic up on it. The next
Speaker 3: thing that's up for us is that we do a
Speaker 3: series called Silly Grit, which we bring in a couple
Speaker 3: of usually local artists and who are artists generating their
Speaker 3: own work. It's devised work, it's direct to dress work.
Speaker 3: It's usually one person pieces, and they probably existed before
Speaker 3: the kind of like fringe style work, and and we
Speaker 3: do a series. They play in rep and then we
Speaker 3: have a cabaret speakeasy that happens one night with Cookie
Speaker 3: Diorio leading that. And so it's these pieces in rep
Speaker 3: and the two shows that we're doing. This is the
Speaker 3: official announcement. I guess is a Vacation by Bastian Carboni,
Speaker 3: and it's a journey goes on vacation to purgatory. He's
Speaker 3: an influencer and sees what sort of damage the entitlement,
Speaker 3: even through purgatory you can create. And it's really it's
Speaker 3: funny and weird and definitely goes dark and inside the
Speaker 3: mind of Bashian Carboni. And then the next piece is
Speaker 3: by Justin Jane, who's a wonderful performer in Philadelphia. He's
Speaker 3: doing a piece called The Dangers of Tobacco, which is
Speaker 3: built off of Chekhof but he it starts with them
Speaker 3: kind of breaks open and it explores his journey, his
Speaker 3: family's journey here to the United States and talks a
Speaker 3: little bit about place and who we are and and
Speaker 3: sort of embracing the truth of who we are. And
Speaker 3: it's really interestingly told with total levels of reality and
Speaker 3: there and so those are those pieces, and we're going
Speaker 3: to end our season with a play called The Great
Speaker 3: Private How to Flip ten cents into a dollar by
Speaker 3: Nia Aquila Robinson and is It takes place in Philadelphia
Speaker 3: on the original cemetery location of the original cemetery of
Speaker 3: Mother Bethel Church, and it takes place in eighteen thirty
Speaker 3: two and the present and in the same location. And
Speaker 3: the place starts with a mother and daughter standing over
Speaker 3: newly dug graves and trying because they hear that they
Speaker 3: are grave robbers that come. And eventually a student from
Speaker 3: Jefferson shows up with a shovel. And so it's really
Speaker 3: about protecting your family. And the Truth of Again is
Speaker 3: about unearthing truths in terms of what is good for societies,
Speaker 3: what is good for a human and it jumps to
Speaker 3: the present and it has parallel experiences and it sort
Speaker 3: of takes the harm that's done to black bodies through
Speaker 3: the generations and how do we accept what we cannot
Speaker 3: change and find joy where we can find joy and
Speaker 3: just facing the truth and lifting a paintbrush or a
Speaker 3: hand or an arm and saying, I take my truth
Speaker 3: in and I put it out there for people to see.
Speaker 3: And it's really a beautiful, beautiful play. And this will
Speaker 3: be its first production in Philadelphia.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, Okay.
Speaker 2: And I feel like I have an idea of where
Speaker 2: this goes towards the present day, but I'm not going
Speaker 2: to take too much stock in that because I learned
Speaker 2: a long time ago when when you think you know
Speaker 2: where something's going, you probably don't or at least not go.
Speaker 1: Now, well, we see either of you, Scott or Ariana
Speaker 1: and again in this season.
Speaker 8: At Theodore Eglielmilk.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, we do want to know what else you're doing.
Speaker 6: By the way, I will be there in the audience.
Speaker 6: Oh okay, that counts fantastic for me personally.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now, you you mentioned coming to Philadelphia, So were
Speaker 1: you based.
Speaker 6: I'm based in New York. I was the understudy on
Speaker 6: the Broadway production of Job. Oh well, and then.
Speaker 5: I had a very close relationship to Max, our playwright,
Speaker 5: who's just brilliant, and he had such a love and
Speaker 5: respect for Philadelphia theater exile.
Speaker 6: He has roots in Philly.
Speaker 5: His dad works there, all these things, and so he
Speaker 5: wanted to take particular care of the production of Job
Speaker 5: in Philly and helped connect me in Deborah and I
Speaker 5: auditioned against some really incredible local local actors and.
Speaker 6: Luckily it all worked out. Met Scott at that audition
Speaker 6: and really hit it off and yeah, yeah, and the rest.
Speaker 1: Is history did it was so amazing. What's next for you?
Speaker 1: Do we know yet?
Speaker 5: I did just doing a wonderful audition, hustle.
Speaker 10: I teach acting, and so I'll be teaching teaching some
Speaker 10: acting at Patrick Page Studio here in New York and
Speaker 10: online at my Acting Coaching online dot com.
Speaker 6: Which I founded and work on.
Speaker 4: Nice.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and the rest is I guess.
Speaker 5: The very next thing is I'm in the upcoming season
Speaker 5: of The Night Agent on Netflix. So when that releases, awesome, Okay,
Speaker 5: see me acting there.
Speaker 1: Okay, we definitely want to share, you know, in the
Speaker 1: notes of the episode, if you'll send us your information
Speaker 1: for the online acting classes, because I can already recommend
Speaker 1: them seeing your work. Because Scott, what about you? What's
Speaker 1: are you based in Philadelphia?
Speaker 8: Yeah? I live here?
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 8: My next thing is I'll be at Quintessants Theater in
Speaker 8: Mount Airy in February in a show called Rare Accidents,
Speaker 8: which is Alex Burns, the artistic director, has sort of
Speaker 8: together Shakespeare's Henry four parts one and two and sort
Speaker 8: of focuses on the false staff how relationship. I'll be
Speaker 8: playing Falstaff. And then in May April May, I'll be
Speaker 8: at the Walnut Street Theater in seventeen seventy six the musical.
Speaker 8: But yeah, I'm playing Ben Franklin.
Speaker 2: We'll have to let Kathy know that seventeen seventy six
Speaker 2: is me.
Speaker 4: To down my goodness.
Speaker 1: My sister is, yes, a big fan all musical theater almost,
Speaker 1: so I.
Speaker 2: Just want to take a moment and give a shout
Speaker 2: out to Philadelphia Theater and it's many practitioners. Theater Exile
Speaker 2: has been devor how how old is Theater Exile Now we're.
Speaker 3: In our twenty ninth season.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Theater Exile has been a jewel in the crown
Speaker 2: for going on three decades, and I love it so much.
Speaker 2: I love the quality of every aspect of the theater, like,
Speaker 2: for instance, in job, every element worked in harmony, like
Speaker 2: the sound design and the lighting design in particular, you
Speaker 2: were just in this world and you're jarred in and
Speaker 2: out of it with such precision, and that takes such skill.
Speaker 2: And I just wanted to, you know, give the entire
Speaker 2: production team their flowers, because.
Speaker 1: Yes, because when sound and lighting are not spot on,
Speaker 1: you don't want.
Speaker 4: To sit with Charles in a theater.
Speaker 2: This is also true. I have been known to point
Speaker 2: out not during the show necessarily, sometimes I can't help it.
Speaker 2: I will point out things that you can't help us
Speaker 2: should have happened.
Speaker 10: Well.
Speaker 2: I'm also one of those people that like the first
Speaker 2: thing I do when I go into a theater, like
Speaker 2: I look at what the setting is on the stage,
Speaker 2: and then I look up and see what we're working with.
Speaker 4: That I get.
Speaker 2: I can't help myself.
Speaker 1: But he'll just like, well, that was a choice clearly
Speaker 1: not the one you would have made. So it's it's
Speaker 1: an interesting way, you know, from the production standpoint to
Speaker 1: try to watch a show. And we were not taken
Speaker 1: out of the show once, So krudos because it happened.
Speaker 2: Nor did we expect to be all and and that's
Speaker 2: you you mentioned, like again the intimacy of theater exile Deborah. Again,
Speaker 2: that's something that I did notice. How you do a
Speaker 2: lot with a little and I mean, obviously it's a
Speaker 2: it's a choice because you pick things that work in
Speaker 2: an intimate setting, Like is it the bare bonesness of
Speaker 2: of a budget? Is it an artistic challenge? Yes, because
Speaker 2: every every time it's it's successfully done that way, like
Speaker 2: maximum minimalism, I guess we call it.
Speaker 3: And we are a very small company. I mean that's
Speaker 3: the truth. Our budget is very small. We're in South Philadelphia,
Speaker 3: you know, so it's there's there's a truth to that.
Speaker 3: But I believe in the power of creativity, and most
Speaker 3: of the people that we work with again and again
Speaker 3: know that they can embrace their own creativity to find
Speaker 3: something incredibly powerful. We do sometimes do things in multiple sets.
Speaker 3: You mentioned the unit set, and that that's true a lot.
Speaker 3: But but when we do things with multiple sets, it's
Speaker 3: let's embrace the metaphor where's the metaphor, let's just go
Speaker 3: there and and just and embracing that. The tech was
Speaker 3: spot on, not because we had a huge team, but
Speaker 3: because we had great people who love Everyone wanted to collaborate,
Speaker 3: everyone wanted to bring someone in. Arianna was so connected
Speaker 3: to like the rhythm of the sound and the like.
Speaker 3: Everyone was working together to make things happen. And when
Speaker 3: you give people that freedom to do that, they come
Speaker 3: back and they're they're their best. And so I think
Speaker 3: people had a lot of fun and just embraced, embrace
Speaker 3: the creativity of it and just went for it nice.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's so gratifying to, you know, have an
Speaker 1: intellectual experience these days. I kind of that, you know,
Speaker 1: where you really are challenged and we really are. It's like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, there still are smart people in the world.
Speaker 1: We do we do talk about, you know, things that matter,
Speaker 1: because it can feel like we don't.
Speaker 3: I will say our audiences are amazing. I love the
Speaker 3: people that see Theater Exile show. I learned so much
Speaker 3: in the lobby. On the way back. I had so
Speaker 3: many interesting conversations with therapists and social workers who really
Speaker 3: had something to say. I'm like, man, I wish I'd
Speaker 3: talked to you before the show. You know, but we
Speaker 3: have incredibly smart, engaged people who make our world better,
Speaker 3: and I'm thrilled that part of what makes them so
Speaker 3: effective in the world is coming to Theater Exile. So
Speaker 3: I take our responsibility seriously. But we are audiences. Man,
Speaker 3: I love them. I'll go to lunch with every one
Speaker 3: of them. They're just brilliant.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can feel that.
Speaker 1: There's just such a sense of it, and it was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm a part of something here and that doesn't happen everywhere.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: So many times we go and just you can feel
Speaker 1: an energy that says, I'm here to be entertained. Entertain me, right,
Speaker 1: different vibe, different vibe.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't get me wrong, I love being entertained.
Speaker 3: Oh sure, yeah, you know, anytime the light goes down
Speaker 3: in the theater, I am like a frigging kid. I
Speaker 3: just I just I am so excited.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: And I do hope this is entertaining and fun in
Speaker 3: exile version of fun, you know, absolutely, but yeah, because
Speaker 3: it hopefully is taking you on a journey somewhere, so
Speaker 3: you're you're moving with it.
Speaker 1: It was funny.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, yeah.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 1: It had really good moments, and y'all, I mean your
Speaker 1: timing was impeccable and I did not expect to laugh,
Speaker 1: and you know, so you held that tension well, you know,
Speaker 1: and knew where to sort of give it a breath
Speaker 1: and and a smile and a laugh, and it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: sometimes it was kind of a nervous laughter, but it
Speaker 1: was yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's placed. It's perfect for theater. Exile is
Speaker 2: perfect for someone like me because I learned a long
Speaker 2: time ago that there are things that are universally funny
Speaker 2: among an audience we're all laughing together. There's things that
Speaker 2: like some of us will find funny, and then there's
Speaker 2: things that only I would find funny. And those are
Speaker 2: the moments that I really love because this is like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm an interesting person with that. Is there any are
Speaker 2: there any plays that are like on the bucket list,
Speaker 2: both for you guys as performers and you Debra as
Speaker 2: artistic director, Like I want to do that before I
Speaker 2: can't do anything else.
Speaker 4: Who wants to go first?
Speaker 6: I love Shakespeare.
Speaker 5: It's funny because when I was a kid deciding to
Speaker 5: become an actor, when I was eleven, how I was
Speaker 5: introduced to Shakespeare.
Speaker 6: Was the Utah Shakespeare Festival. That's where I was born
Speaker 6: and raised.
Speaker 5: And back then, the theater model, especially in that part
Speaker 5: of the country, was this repertory theater where you're gonna
Speaker 5: do three if you're an actor there, you're gonna do
Speaker 5: three shows out of the sixth all summer, and then
Speaker 5: when that one's over all summer, you're gonna go to
Speaker 5: Milwaukee rep for the rest of the year and you'll
Speaker 5: do the six shows there. And so that's what I thought.
Speaker 5: My sort of adult acting life would be. And then
Speaker 5: of course everything has shifted so much in a few
Speaker 5: short years, and so and some amazing things have happened,
Speaker 5: you know that not necessarily all for the negative, but
Speaker 5: I definitely thought there would be more Shakespeare around and
Speaker 5: it's so enforced in training and all these things, and
Speaker 5: so it actually it makes me grateful to get to
Speaker 5: do a show like this because when I very first
Speaker 5: read job, I actually I texted my manager at the time.
Speaker 5: I texted her, it's like Hamlet, you know, And I
Speaker 5: don't want to give away too much to anyone.
Speaker 6: I'm just going to listen to this, but there's something.
Speaker 5: Very much in Jane, which she's how how the play
Speaker 5: navigates mental health to help us explore a really clear
Speaker 5: dramatic tension, and this how we get the courage to
Speaker 5: do something or not, how we question ourselves or not.
Speaker 5: All of that reminded me of of Shakespeare.
Speaker 6: So I'm always I'm always thinking about Shakespeare. I'm obsessed
Speaker 6: with it.
Speaker 5: But other bucket lists are working with Scott and Deborah
Speaker 5: again as soon as possible.
Speaker 6: In any capacity.
Speaker 1: Love that there was such an element of, you know,
Speaker 1: doing the right thing, and what does that look like.
Speaker 1: It was one of the things that I kind of
Speaker 1: wrestled with was, you know, sometimes things are so scary
Speaker 1: and making the choice too or is it a choice?
Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like I cannot live with this thing, so therefore we
Speaker 1: just have to move forward.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I just remembered that part.
Speaker 8: Yeah, working with these two very very top of the
Speaker 8: list role wise. I always wanted to play Sweeney Todd. Also,
Speaker 8: I was when I was young. I was in a
Speaker 8: production of Death of Salesman at the Arden about thirty
Speaker 8: years ago now, and a man who passed away this year,
Speaker 8: Tom McCarthy played Willie Lowman, and it was one of
Speaker 8: the greatest performances I've seen by an actor anywhere. He
Speaker 8: was a huge figure in the Philadelphia theater community. And I,
Speaker 8: you know, I'm nearing the age that he played, you know,
Speaker 8: he he was when he played really uh, And so
Speaker 8: that's something I would love to do as well at
Speaker 8: some point.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think of actual like the scripts, Like
Speaker 3: there's there's some scripts that are beyond what theater exiles
Speaker 3: can do alone, you know that, But like I'd love
Speaker 3: the play that just came out of about a year
Speaker 3: or so ago prayer for the French Republic, which asks
Speaker 3: such an important question, which is when when is the
Speaker 3: time to leave? Like where you are? When is it
Speaker 3: time to like what if we don't trust our country anymore?
Speaker 3: Really important big questions, but it's huge. It's eleven characters,
Speaker 3: you know. I oddly I would love to get back
Speaker 3: in the world of musicals, like I used to do
Speaker 3: choreography and direct musicals, but it's been years and years
Speaker 3: and early in my professional career and I'd love to
Speaker 3: do that again. And you know, there's just good, chewy
Speaker 3: psychological dramas are always my favorite, you know, with humor,
Speaker 3: always with humor, love to make people laugh. You used
Speaker 3: to do butlers of Charles Ludlin and George you know,
Speaker 3: you know, blow your skirt up, half fun psyco beach
Speaker 3: Bardie things and I love those as well.
Speaker 1: You know that idea and I have a question with
Speaker 1: this too, but the idea of place and when is
Speaker 1: it time to leave?
Speaker 4: You know, I.
Speaker 1: Work as a counselor as well as uh, you know,
Speaker 1: work with a hell of a lot of trans people
Speaker 1: and it's been a question that so many, you know,
Speaker 1: some have had to answer that's right when my mind
Speaker 1: went to you, and you know some are still you know,
Speaker 1: grappling with that and just being the person that says, look,
Speaker 1: there's no right answer here.
Speaker 4: It's the right answer for the human right.
Speaker 1: Is where I've stood that, you know, because I have
Speaker 1: issues with the trans community eating itself anyway. But we
Speaker 1: can't tell one another when that moment is. You know,
Speaker 1: I had a friend and a member of a group
Speaker 1: I facilitate who had long COVID and after the results
Speaker 1: of the election, they picked up and went to Canada
Speaker 1: immediately they had planned to and they did, and they said,
Speaker 1: I am too ill to fight. It's not that I
Speaker 1: don't want to, I can't. And you know, miraculously this
Speaker 1: human is healthy and vibrant and came back to life
Speaker 1: and we didn't see that as possible. And I went,
Speaker 1: you can't tell me that was the wrong decision, you know,
Speaker 1: even though they took a lot of golf for it,
Speaker 1: you know, like if you you're using your privilege to
Speaker 1: leave us all here. And I said, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: what's right for me. And it's just one we're grappling with.
Speaker 1: I mean, I never thought we would have an underground
Speaker 1: railroad in twenty twenty five for my communities. But we do,
Speaker 1: but we do to get medicine to folks, to get
Speaker 1: them away from laws that are killing folks.
Speaker 4: So yeah, lots is going on.
Speaker 1: I was in a conversation with someone recently and they
Speaker 1: there was just an offhanded opinion. I can't really talk
Speaker 1: too much about the specifics, but it was a trans
Speaker 1: icon who said to me that there is a film
Speaker 1: finally coming out about their life. And this person who
Speaker 1: knew them very well, said, yeah, that's not going to happen,
Speaker 1: not in this climate. And I said, I think this
Speaker 1: is exactly the climate. You know, This is when we
Speaker 1: need to hear these stories and see resilience. And that's
Speaker 1: my perspective. So I'm wondering from your perspective, Deborah, especially,
Speaker 1: I think it's the time to engage more of it,
Speaker 1: not less of it. I don't you know, when we
Speaker 1: talk about shying away, especially where artists concerned, this is
Speaker 1: what art is supposed to do.
Speaker 3: I have in our core values at Theater Exile, you
Speaker 3: say that to live as an artist is a privilege
Speaker 3: and it is our responsibility to help make our community
Speaker 3: a better place. And I believe that every person. Every
Speaker 3: artist does it differently. I mean again, straight entertainment, I
Speaker 3: love it, love it. There is a place for that
Speaker 3: and a place to make your soul lighter, so you
Speaker 3: can do what you need to do. Like so, I
Speaker 3: don't ever want anyone to think that everyone's artistic path
Speaker 3: needs to be one way or another, needs to be
Speaker 3: the way Exile does it. But I do think those
Speaker 3: conversations are important. That's the timeliness to think, Like even
Speaker 3: if it's a play that's you know, one hundred years old,
Speaker 3: but seeing it today makes sense and makes me thinking
Speaker 3: grapple with the world out there. So yes, in this climate, yes,
Speaker 3: I mean, of course the arts community. I mean we've
Speaker 3: lost funding because we've chosen to say things in this climate.
Speaker 3: You know, that's that's the that's the reality of it.
Speaker 3: But but yes, in this climate, that's what we're supposed
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, the politics of it all, it's you know,
Speaker 1: dose was I mean, I think they're gone now, aren't
Speaker 1: they didn't they implode recently? But you know I built
Speaker 1: and ran an LGBTQ addiction program in New Jersey that
Speaker 1: you know, our entire grant just went away. And it
Speaker 1: was those who did it. You know, Demas was funding
Speaker 1: some incredible work with you know, like leftover COVID money,
Speaker 1: I guess, but they were using it in ways and
Speaker 1: with populations that have been underserved for too long, and
Speaker 1: we were doing some great stuff with that money. It
Speaker 1: wasn't being wasted. And I said, I guess when we
Speaker 1: were recording. Recently, we haven't begun to see the truth
Speaker 1: fallout of the programs that were cut in terms of
Speaker 1: mental health, in terms of addiction, in terms of underserved populations.
Speaker 1: It's going to get more and more obvious what has happened.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just and you know, there's that idea
Speaker 1: of preaching to the choir, right right, the folks who
Speaker 1: come to see this are all going to be the
Speaker 1: Yeah I want I am in the choir, and I
Speaker 1: also want to be preached to, you know, I want
Speaker 1: to be reminded that humanity matters. Indeed, that there are
Speaker 1: other people who care, who are grappling with the same things,
Speaker 1: who are you know, really trying to be better humans
Speaker 1: and figure out, you know, what the hell is going on.
Speaker 2: And the artists are always the ones that I look
Speaker 2: to first, because, yeah, talk about boots on the ground,
Speaker 2: you know some of the best art is made in
Speaker 2: the worst time, So that part I wanted.
Speaker 6: To say, I think this play funnily enough.
Speaker 5: I think one of its strengths is that I don't
Speaker 5: think it actually preaches to the choir.
Speaker 2: I think it's an amazing.
Speaker 6: Strange thing.
Speaker 5: Where As you said, as we did our introductions, that
Speaker 5: you were choosing moments to where you loved one of
Speaker 5: us and hated the other and switching that. And I
Speaker 5: think there's parts of Jane that are so admirable and
Speaker 5: so interesting, And then there's parts of Jane that, especially
Speaker 5: this is written to be in January twenty twenty and
Speaker 5: now we're in November twenty twenty five. A lot of
Speaker 5: Jane's Silicon Valley Elon Musk esque love of tech and
Speaker 5: meritocracy and how it's given her life purpose really is
Speaker 5: scary now, really is jarring to kind of to listen
Speaker 5: to and really understand.
Speaker 6: And yet there's other.
Speaker 5: Parts of her that are completely correct that if she's
Speaker 5: she's coming from this past of really elite spaces where
Speaker 5: people talk a lot of game and then don't actually
Speaker 5: have a stick of compassion to give to anyone, and
Speaker 5: she's genuinely trying to to treat real problems in the.
Speaker 6: World like they are fixable, which they are.
Speaker 5: You know, it's such a wonderful mix of things where
Speaker 5: I really think some pretty wherever you are on the
Speaker 5: political spectrum, you can come to this play and you
Speaker 5: can see yourself in it. And then there's you're gonna
Speaker 5: see parts of yourself you don't like, you're going to
Speaker 5: see the world save your part. You're going to see
Speaker 5: the why am I so afraid of guns? Or why
Speaker 5: am I not afraid of guns? You know, like there's
Speaker 5: not afraid enough yet in there. I really or the
Speaker 5: play for that because I think there's it's rare that
Speaker 5: you really have a play where you don't know who
Speaker 5: the bad guy is, that that that isn't always true.
Speaker 10: And so.
Speaker 5: The fact that that this play it switches hats.
Speaker 2: To me and I have been forced to ask myself
Speaker 2: the question in recent years, what if there is no
Speaker 2: good guy?
Speaker 8: M right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's like that's not a question we
Speaker 2: like to ask, but.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I mean that was a part of
Speaker 1: it was just kind of the as I said, what
Speaker 1: is the right thing? You know, who benefits, who suffers who?
Speaker 1: And how do we it's not clear cut. Sometimes sometimes
Speaker 1: it's really hard. And that was Boy, did that come across.
Speaker 4: It really did, Like.
Speaker 1: This is not black and this is not so clear,
Speaker 1: and you know, and I think that that lens is important,
Speaker 1: you know, like what an innocent time. January twenty was
Speaker 1: as prepared to exactly January of twenty twenty five, for instance.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Different, Yeah, and who'd have thought some people did some
Speaker 1: thaw coming.
Speaker 2: There were a sidebar going back to the bucket list
Speaker 2: play question, there was there is a show that popped
Speaker 2: in my head this morning that I was like, I
Speaker 2: wonder what theater exile would do with this, The Pillow Man.
Speaker 3: So the Wilma did a production of Pillow Man a
Speaker 3: number of years ago, which I saw, and as soon
Speaker 3: as I saw it, like at the end of the play,
Speaker 3: I ran out of the theater. My memories that I
Speaker 3: ran home and then looked at the my then baby son,
Speaker 3: like I just had to like look at my child
Speaker 3: and make sure everything was okay, like I random. And
Speaker 3: then there was another production in the Philadelphia area. I
Speaker 3: can't remember who did that next production.
Speaker 8: It was Hedgerow really yeah, Pete Pryor was in it.
Speaker 8: It was the first time I'd seen Pete performing a
Speaker 8: long time. That was great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. First of all, keep coming with those suggestions,
Speaker 3: just like, let me know, I love people who love
Speaker 3: theater eggs out to give me plays. It's I really
Speaker 3: value that. I think it's really important. I think Killaman
Speaker 3: is right on the money in terms of like the
Speaker 3: something that theater egs that will do. It's just been
Speaker 3: done too recently.
Speaker 2: I didn't even realize that, Wow, you messed up. That
Speaker 2: was actually the show that made me realize what I
Speaker 2: said about some things we all think are funding and
Speaker 2: some things just I think are funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I've been I've been in that room where
Speaker 3: like we're watching this play and I'm the only one
Speaker 3: that laughed, and it's usually a big laugh.
Speaker 2: Of course, it's like, oh, so I'm the only person
Speaker 2: that thinks that a twelve year old girl dressed as
Speaker 2: Jesus dragging across around the living room is hilarious. I fine,
Speaker 2: I'll be that.
Speaker 3: No, we just have to end up at the same
Speaker 3: play at the same time. More Have you Ever done?
Speaker 5: Have You Ever Done?
Speaker 2: Mother?
Speaker 6: Play by Marcia Norman.
Speaker 3: Night Mother, Night Mother, Sorry Mother. Yeah, the Paul.
Speaker 5: That just came out is called the Mother play.
Speaker 3: That's great. I have not No, we we never did
Speaker 3: night Mother. You never did Night Mother. Yeah, I'm just saying.
Speaker 8: That a big one. That was a big one in
Speaker 8: acting school. Yeah, as such, beauty seeds for.
Speaker 6: Women's so good.
Speaker 3: No, it's true, it is, it is true. Yeah, we
Speaker 3: haven't done that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, random question. But I went to see Oklahoma, the
Speaker 1: most recent production twice, and it's creepy as fuck. And
Speaker 1: you realized that they could take this piece of iconic
Speaker 1: musical theater and slightly rework it and you're watching a
Speaker 1: different story. I wonder if anything else comes to mind
Speaker 1: like that, because that was a trip for me to go, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a whole and it was all there.
Speaker 4: Those words were all there.
Speaker 1: They were just smiling when they said them. The stuff
Speaker 1: that was okay that we, I guess didn't see.
Speaker 3: I mean the racism and Pacific I guess is really.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's part of the play, but you know,
Speaker 3: hearing it now becomes right part of the play. I'm
Speaker 3: trying to think what else.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. I was blown away. I was just
Speaker 4: blown away. Oh, I like Oklahoma now.
Speaker 1: And there were two trans cast members who were just
Speaker 1: playing roles. They you know, there wasn't an agenda beyond that,
Speaker 1: and they were fantastic, you know. So we took about
Speaker 1: twenty five people to go see the play and meet
Speaker 1: the actors and it was amazing really, but I was
Speaker 1: just left thinking, hmm, what else could we do that with,
Speaker 1: you know, just tell the same story.
Speaker 3: But a lot of the older plays, I mean, it's
Speaker 3: been sort of the casual racism and misogyny, and it
Speaker 3: just it depends. We've looked at some what I call
Speaker 3: like legacy plays, plays that are speak to the like
Speaker 3: what the psychological dramas, that what Peter Exel does. But
Speaker 3: if the misogyny or racism is present but doesn't actually
Speaker 3: move the story quite right, you know, it's it's it
Speaker 3: can be a little it's scary, but we've looked at
Speaker 3: some of some of those and it yeah, it's it's
Speaker 3: it's it's hard. Sometimes sometimes you can successfully make that transformation,
Speaker 3: and sometimes it's just like why are you giving these
Speaker 3: thoughts space? And and so yeah, it's finding the right
Speaker 3: one that can be twisted and uplift the story rather
Speaker 3: than just giving old ideas space on stage right.
Speaker 1: Right now, I just I left going well, I saw
Speaker 1: a whole different show, and I just watched the exact
Speaker 1: same show.
Speaker 2: I love the ability of theater to change, not only
Speaker 2: the audience or the actors, but the thing itself. You know,
Speaker 2: it's just it's it's a wonderful It's a wonderful, magic thing.
Speaker 2: Devor how do you know you found like the script?
Speaker 2: Because some people it's like, oh, I get nervous, I
Speaker 2: get sick, I get the chills, Like, how do you know?
Speaker 3: It depends on the place. Sometimes sometimes I'm I'm never
Speaker 3: sure until the until the play shows up on stage
Speaker 3: and it's done, you know. But more of a like
Speaker 3: I remember when I read Passover and we did that
Speaker 3: during COVID. We did it outside in a park. It
Speaker 3: was wonderful product. I remember when I read it, I
Speaker 3: was screaming in the house. I was on vacation with
Speaker 3: my family, and I'm like, oh my god, oh my god,
Speaker 3: does anyone know what I just read? You know, and
Speaker 3: you can sometimes feel it. I felt that with Wolf's
Speaker 3: Play by Hunsel John, Oh my god, such an amazing play.
Speaker 3: Also plays that play with form really excite me, really
Speaker 3: really excite me. And sometimes it's just like when like
Speaker 3: with job and it's like, oh my god, just digging
Speaker 3: into this will be exciting. Yeah, it's uh, it's when
Speaker 3: you want to spend more time with it, do you
Speaker 3: know what I mean? Like you want to have a
Speaker 3: second date.
Speaker 1: I'm intrigued. There's something there. There's layers here that I
Speaker 1: can dig through. Please keep doing amazing work. The next
Speaker 1: show opens.
Speaker 3: When the next show will open March eighteenth, okay. And
Speaker 3: in the meantime, yeah, actually, we have things happening at theater,
Speaker 3: Exile Theater and the X is going to be there
Speaker 3: doing a show in December.
Speaker 1: Great, and that's all on your website, yes, folks can
Speaker 1: follow that way.
Speaker 3: Well. Yeah, our rental partners are on our website as well,
Speaker 3: so there's always something happening.
Speaker 1: In Exile beautiful, and we will link to all of that.
Speaker 1: It's been amazing chatting with all of you, it really has.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for making the time. We love
Speaker 1: the work that you do. Please keep going, you know.
Speaker 8: Thank you, Thanks for pleasure.
Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure. Thank you for a blisting live theater.
Speaker 3: It's just and so little off for your theater, just
Speaker 3: so important, so wonderful.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Literally our pleasure.
Speaker 1: Oh I yes, yes, thanks for this work and have
Speaker 1: a have a peaceful.
Speaker 3: Thanksgiving you as well, you as well.
Speaker 4: Thank you by every one.
Speaker 2: Full Circle is a Never Skurred Productions podcast hosted by
Speaker 2: Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited by
Speaker 2: Never Scured Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal.
Speaker 2: Our theme in music is by the jingle Berries. All names, pictures, music, audio,
Speaker 2: and video clips are registered trademarks and or copyrights of
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Speaker 3: A pat flap flare th play
Speaker 1: Plant plant plant