Speaker 1: FBI Director Cash Bettel says that China may be attacking
Speaker 1: us with a crazy new fungus. President Trump's allies are
Speaker 1: on offense to get his legislative agenda passed. Elon Musk
Speaker 1: is shaming the big spending ways of Congress, and AI
Speaker 1: bots may have a liberal bias that could shape the world.
Speaker 2: It's all tonight on the Matt Gates Show. Let's do
Speaker 2: this shaking up Washington, d C. We're breaking the fever.
Speaker 2: You haven't watch this guy on television. It's like a machine.
Speaker 3: He's great. Matt Gates.
Speaker 2: Good evening.
Speaker 1: We are on assignment in Washington, DC tonight as the
Speaker 1: fate of President Trump's legislative agenda is battered about the.
Speaker 2: Halls of Congress.
Speaker 1: We've got a key congressman joining us in moments to
Speaker 1: bring us up to date on the negotiations. White House
Speaker 1: Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller is a hero to
Speaker 1: the American right. He has been one of the most
Speaker 1: forceful defenders of the One Big, Beautiful Bill. In a
Speaker 1: series of tweets this week, Miller said, quote, it will
Speaker 1: increase by orders of magnitude the scope, scale and speed
Speaker 1: of removing illegal and criminal aliens from the United States.
Speaker 1: For that reason alone, it is the most essential piece
Speaker 1: of legislation currently under consideration in the entire Western world
Speaker 1: in generations. Miller noted the Big Beautiful Bill decreases total
Speaker 1: spending over the budget window by nearly two trillion dollars,
Speaker 1: and he says the Big Beautiful Bill is not an
Speaker 1: appropriation's bill. It does not fund ninety nine percent plus
Speaker 1: of the government. Zero dollars for Department of Education, zero
Speaker 1: dollars for HUD, zero dollars for EPA, not a cent.
Speaker 1: It cuts taxes, deports the illegals, and reforms welfare. We
Speaker 1: could never have dreamed of a bill like this in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. Meanwhile, Elon Musk has increased his critique of
Speaker 1: the legislation. He called it a pork filled, disgusting abomination
Speaker 1: that will massively increase the already gigantic budget deficit to
Speaker 1: two point five trillion dollars and burden American citizens with
Speaker 1: crushingly unsustainable debt. Musk said, quote interest payments already consumed
Speaker 1: twenty five percent of all government revenue.
Speaker 2: He's right about that.
Speaker 1: If the massive deficit spending continues, there will only be
Speaker 1: money for interest payments and nothing else. No social Security,
Speaker 1: no medical, no offense, nothing close.
Speaker 2: Quote.
Speaker 1: Last night, Freedom Caucus Congressman Eric Burleson lamented that Elon
Speaker 1: hadn't expressed this few points sooner.
Speaker 4: Where was Elon when all the pressure was building and
Speaker 4: we were clearly at the precipice of getting the point
Speaker 4: where this bill had to be passed and moved out
Speaker 4: of the House, It would have been wonderful to have
Speaker 4: had you know, Elon chime in. That would have given
Speaker 4: myself and a lot of the fiscal hawks a lot
Speaker 4: more leveraged to be able to get more out of
Speaker 4: the bill.
Speaker 1: Congressman Burlson believes that as of tonight, the votes are
Speaker 1: not there to pass President Trump's bill in the Senate.
Speaker 1: Do you think it has the votes today in the Senate?
Speaker 2: Probably not, but we'll see.
Speaker 1: So if the votes aren't there now and Trump wants
Speaker 1: to get the votes, will the bill have to spend less?
Speaker 1: Probably in order to get the votes of Ran Paul Rick,
Speaker 1: Scott Lee, and Ron Johnson. Those are fantastic senators in
Speaker 1: our book. But Senators Murkowski, Collins, and Holly are still
Speaker 1: not indicating support. They seem to be balking at some
Speaker 1: of the cuts, so for them, the bill might have
Speaker 1: to spend more. This is the legislative version of a
Speaker 1: Chinese finger trap, where pulling in one direction only makes
Speaker 1: things tighter on the other.
Speaker 2: Here to help us figure it.
Speaker 1: All out is Tennessee Congressman Andy Ogels. So, Congressman, do
Speaker 1: you think that there is progress being made in the
Speaker 1: Senate to get the votes to pass this bill?
Speaker 2: Or are you.
Speaker 1: Anticipating that the Senate will make some revision and set
Speaker 1: it back to the House.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, I would say that from the House perspective,
Speaker 5: or at least my perspective, it's big, it's not quite
Speaker 5: beautiful yet.
Speaker 2: And so maybe this is the opportunity.
Speaker 5: With Elon coming out criticizing the bill, maybe we'll see
Speaker 5: some of the Senators make some changes, make some additional cuts,
Speaker 5: and then likely it'll pass and then it comes back
Speaker 5: to us. Now, that'll put a few of my House
Speaker 5: colleagues in a box, But at the end of the day,
Speaker 5: that's what we promised the American people.
Speaker 1: Have you been in contact with any senators? Are they
Speaker 1: getting arms twisted by cabinet officials? You know how it goes.
Speaker 1: You get calls from people in the White House.
Speaker 2: You had calls from the President and Vice President.
Speaker 1: They seem to be engaging directly in public with some
Speaker 1: of the folks who they think don't see the bill correctly.
Speaker 5: Well, I did speak to a senator earlier, and you know,
Speaker 5: right now there doesn't seem to be quite a consensus
Speaker 5: forming in the Senate as what the direction is going
Speaker 5: to be. So I think it's kind of what I'll
Speaker 5: say is Elon I think reset the conversation with his
Speaker 5: most recent tweets for better or worse but that. But again,
Speaker 5: I think the Mike Lees and some of the more
Speaker 5: conservative senators that emboldens them to try to get more again,
Speaker 5: make it truly big and beautiful, not just big, because
Speaker 5: right now it's rather large. But I think again, I
Speaker 5: think there's the opportunity for them to improve the bill,
Speaker 5: to make some aditional cuts. You'll see some of those
Speaker 5: more conservative senators come online. And then of course the
Speaker 5: House votes on it. But like you said, I don't
Speaker 5: know that the votes are there if it were to
Speaker 5: be voted on today.
Speaker 1: As is Elon and Trump have come to the House
Speaker 1: conference before, they've been a unified front.
Speaker 2: It seems like it's a real pep.
Speaker 1: Rally environment with your colleagues when they come and now
Speaker 1: you're seeing a bit of a different.
Speaker 2: Message out of both of them.
Speaker 1: Do you think maybe it's just a different of a
Speaker 1: difference in priorities. You know, for Elon, the priority always
Speaker 1: really was spending and for Trump and a lot of
Speaker 1: his voters, it really was immigration. And that what actually
Speaker 1: is intentioned before us is whether you prioritize spending cuts
Speaker 1: more than some of the immigration priorities.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think there was two huge wins
Speaker 5: in the House version making the Trump tax cuts permanent.
Speaker 5: That signals to the markets that this is the landscape
Speaker 5: that you're going to play in. If you're a small
Speaker 5: business owner, you're going to increase the size or investing
Speaker 5: your business again, you know, the landscape, but also foreign
Speaker 5: investment as well, So it's huge in that regard. And
Speaker 5: of course securing the border and deportations. Nashville has been
Speaker 5: on the news because the deportations and we're fighting that fight.
Speaker 5: But like you said, Elon's you know, he was headed doze.
Speaker 5: He started Doze creates a legacy of cutting or finding
Speaker 5: ways to cut. So there is a difference of priorities.
Speaker 2: But the end of the day.
Speaker 5: I think there's the opportunity to get those two things
Speaker 5: to align. It's going to take some work, but that's
Speaker 5: why we were elected this job.
Speaker 2: You brought me right to my next question.
Speaker 1: You're leading an investigation into the Nashville mayor for some
Speaker 1: of the open borders policies there. What is the behavior
Speaker 1: you hope to change with this investigation.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, if look, ICE has been clear, Christynom
Speaker 5: has been clear, you don't have to agree with ICE,
Speaker 5: you don't have to help ICE when they come to
Speaker 5: your community, but you can't interfere. And what we're seeing
Speaker 5: or have seen in cities across the country, including Nashville,
Speaker 5: is that there's an interference. And so now you have
Speaker 5: the Metro Police Department, the fire Department, and public works
Speaker 5: officials are supposed to snitch on ICE whenever they're in Nashville,
Speaker 5: and then that's being reported on the city's website at
Speaker 5: almost real time. Then the city mayor docks the federal agents.
Speaker 5: So I went to the Chairman of Homeland Security and
Speaker 5: the Chairman of Judiciary and we're going to do a
Speaker 5: joint investigation to the mayor of Nashville.
Speaker 2: But I think there's the.
Speaker 1: Opportunity to think the mayor should have to testify before
Speaker 1: the committee, before.
Speaker 5: The committee, But then also there's other mayors across the
Speaker 5: country that need to be held accountable. When you're putting
Speaker 5: law enforcement, federal law enforcement, their life at risk, you
Speaker 5: cross the line and there should be some accountability.
Speaker 1: Speaking of life at risk, I did not believe when
Speaker 1: I knew we were going to talk today that we
Speaker 1: would be talking about a China fungus.
Speaker 2: But here we find ourselves.
Speaker 1: Based on any information you have so far, do you
Speaker 1: think this is an intentional act by the Chinese government?
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I can't speak for the Chinese government,
Speaker 5: and I've been an out spoken critic of the CCP
Speaker 5: and an advocate for Taiwan. But that being said, is
Speaker 5: this individual, he's a researcher. He knew what he had.
Speaker 5: He brought it illegally into the country on his phone,
Speaker 5: and it was hidden right, It was like wadded up
Speaker 5: in tissue, tucked in a book, and then on his phone.
Speaker 5: After further investigation, there was an article dating back to
Speaker 5: like twenty eighteen on biological warfare. So this guy, I mean, look,
Speaker 5: follow the facts, let them be an investigation. To me,
Speaker 5: it looks criminal and he should be prosecuted. And quite frankly,
Speaker 5: there's a whole host of folks from China here whose
Speaker 5: visas should be revoked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, should we rethink allowing our research university labs to
Speaker 1: be used by some of these students that are constantly
Speaker 1: coming back and forth from China.
Speaker 5: Well, during the Cold War, we weren't giving visas to
Speaker 5: Russian students, So why are we giving visas to Chinese
Speaker 5: students who wouldn't we know?
Speaker 6: China is the enemy.
Speaker 5: We saw it during COVID, they choked off the supply chain.
Speaker 5: We now have biological weapons. They're constantly trying to hack us.
Speaker 5: So why are we enabling the enemy that's trying to
Speaker 5: bring us down?
Speaker 2: Again?
Speaker 5: During the Cold War, we didn't do this for Russia.
Speaker 5: Why would we do this for China?
Speaker 2: You mentioned Russia.
Speaker 1: We've got the escalation of tensions in this conflict. President
Speaker 1: Trump just announcing that he had a productive call with Putin,
Speaker 1: but that he is anticipating some sort of Russian response
Speaker 1: to this Ukrainian drone attack. Where do you see that
Speaker 1: conflict going and what steps can Congress tape to align
Speaker 1: with President Trump and try to bring it to an end.
Speaker 5: So I was part of a delegation a few weeks
Speaker 5: ago that went to Europe, met with members of European Parliament,
Speaker 5: also met with members of the Moldovan parliament. And I've
Speaker 5: long said since that trip. I say long said a
Speaker 5: few weeks ago that Russia there would be no peace
Speaker 5: in Ukraine until after the Moldovan elections. So there's a
Speaker 5: faction within Moldova that's very pro Russian, and so if
Speaker 5: they can win Moldovan elections, that will allow that will
Speaker 5: open up another flank for Russia into the Ukraine War.
Speaker 5: And so until that is reconciled, and we've seen in
Speaker 5: the Romanian Moldovan elections historically Russian interference, so they have
Speaker 5: no motive to settle peace or to negotiate peace.
Speaker 2: So so we just destined to more death and world war.
Speaker 5: From late summer early fall is the Moldovan elections, and
Speaker 5: nothing's going to happen in my opinion, until after those elections.
Speaker 5: If Russia loses in the Moldovan elections, then they'll come
Speaker 5: to the table for negotiations. If they win, which they
Speaker 5: just prevailed in the Romanian elections, I think it's spelled
Speaker 5: trouble for you in the fact that there'll be an
Speaker 5: additional flank.
Speaker 1: Congressman Indiogle's thanks is always for coming on the program
Speaker 1: and sharing your.
Speaker 2: Expertise on a wide array of subjects that seemed to
Speaker 2: be in the news today.
Speaker 1: And coming up, we've got more news on the crazy
Speaker 1: China fungus. The person who believes they should lead the
Speaker 1: State of Michigan will be joining us to explain how
Speaker 1: the state is reacting to this grizzly discovery at the
Speaker 1: University of Michigan all next to the macag show.
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Speaker 1: We survived the China virus, but these things never come
Speaker 1: in ones. FBI director Cash Battel has announced that he
Speaker 1: disrupted the China fungus. There were two Chinese researchers, John
Speaker 1: Yung Chin and Ying I'm sorry, and Lou Zuanyong. They've
Speaker 1: been charging the United States for attempting to smuggle the
Speaker 1: toxic fungus Fasarium germanic geranium into the country. This pathogen
Speaker 1: is known to cause head blight and crops like wheat, barley, corn,
Speaker 1: and rice. It's considered a potential agro terrorism weapon due
Speaker 1: to its capacity to devastate agriculture and harm human and
Speaker 1: animal health. It produces toxins that can lead to vomiting,
Speaker 1: liver damage, and reproductive defects in humans and livestock.
Speaker 2: Sounds awful.
Speaker 1: The lab lacked the necessary federal permits to handle these pathogens.
Speaker 1: Investigators found messages indicating that one of these students and
Speaker 1: researchers was already working with the fungus in the lab
Speaker 1: prior to the arrival of the other.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Lou was intercepted at the Detroit Metropolitan Airport in July
Speaker 1: with the fungus concealed in his backpack. He initially denied
Speaker 1: knowledge of the samples, but later admitted that he intended
Speaker 1: to study them with his girlfriend at the Michigan lab. Now,
Speaker 1: we haven't seen lovebirds working so hard with intelligence assets
Speaker 1: to disrupt American life like this, since, of course the
Speaker 1: FBI Bonnie and.
Speaker 2: Kloud i'd love bird duo you see before you.
Speaker 1: John is currently in custody awaiting a bond hearing, while
Speaker 1: Low is back in China and is unlikely a face
Speaker 1: extradition due to the absence of a treaty between the
Speaker 1: two countries.
Speaker 2: So maybe this love won't last.
Speaker 1: The case has highlighted concerns over biosecurity and the potential
Speaker 1: misuse of biological agents in acts of agro terrorism. Joining
Speaker 1: us now Michigan State Senate Republican leader and gubernatorial candidate
Speaker 1: Eric Nesbit, Leader Nesbit, How are Michiganders reacting to the
Speaker 1: revelation that these Chinese researchers were engaged in this activity
Speaker 1: at the University of Michigan.
Speaker 8: Hey, Matt, thanks for covering this topic. It is so
Speaker 8: important that we unveil these issues of this Chinese Communist
Speaker 8: Party and what they're doing here in Michigan. What these
Speaker 8: universities are cooperating with the CCP affiliated organizations and doing.
Speaker 8: Remember just last year that a student at the University
Speaker 8: of Michigan voted in the election. We figured there was
Speaker 8: actually several dozens that did this. Last year. There was
Speaker 8: also three folks that were arrested for looking over military
Speaker 8: bases in northern Michigan. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 8: what we're seeing now with a pathogen coming into this
Speaker 8: country from students that are affiliate with the Chinese Communist Party,
Speaker 8: this is wrong. And this is why House Republicans just
Speaker 8: a few weeks ago past legislation that's now sitting in
Speaker 8: the State Senate that the Senate Democrats refused to bring
Speaker 8: up as they have a majority in the state Senate
Speaker 8: right now. But that would stop this kind of foreign influence,
Speaker 8: that would make sure that Chinese Communist Party associated companies
Speaker 8: can't buy farmland here in Michigan, and that we root
Speaker 8: out this foreign influence from Michigan.
Speaker 1: You're running for governor, and if you were governor today,
Speaker 1: knowing what we know, would you be expelling Chinese students
Speaker 1: from the University of Michigan in Michigan State.
Speaker 8: Oh, I'd be joining with President Trump and doing what
Speaker 8: he's doing and making sure that these Chinese Communist Party
Speaker 8: affiliated students don't have visas here to America. That needs
Speaker 8: to stop making sure that our universities are not cooperating
Speaker 8: with Chinese Communist Party organizations. That's wrong and needs to end.
Speaker 8: And let's be honest, the CCP, they're not our front.
Speaker 8: We need to actually stand up, stand together and saying
Speaker 8: we need to stop this foreign influence, follow what President
Speaker 8: Trump's doing at the national level, and actually standing up
Speaker 8: for not just Michigan's interests, but America's interests against those
Speaker 8: that are trying to infiltrate us and trying to do
Speaker 8: wrong and trying to do harm to America.
Speaker 1: In Michigan, when we think about terrorism, we think about
Speaker 1: burning buildings, We think about these tragic events where people
Speaker 1: are run over with cars or shot, but we don't
Speaker 1: typically think about agri terrorism. Ag is a huge part
Speaker 1: of the Michigan economy. If your governor, do you think
Speaker 1: we're going to have to start thinking about protecting our
Speaker 1: agricultural assets in a different way and how would you
Speaker 1: go about doing it?
Speaker 8: Somebody who grew up on a sixth generation a dairy
Speaker 8: and grape farm, I understand how important our agriculture industry
Speaker 8: is to Michigan, our family farmers, how important they are.
Speaker 8: And it's something where You've seen it time after time,
Speaker 8: whenever President Trump has stood up against Chinese infiltration, whenever
Speaker 8: he stood up against the Chinese Communist Party, What do
Speaker 8: they do? They attack our farmers, they attack agriculture. Is
Speaker 8: something where we got to take this seriously. Is if
Speaker 8: we're not protecting our food supply and we're relying on
Speaker 8: overseas food supply. When you're from Florida, you understand how
Speaker 8: important agriculture is. And it's something where we got to
Speaker 8: continue to step up and say China is not our front.
Speaker 8: The Chinese Communist Party wants to destroy America, and it
Speaker 8: is something where the end of the day that having
Speaker 8: these research and folks bringing in these kind of weapons
Speaker 8: needs to be stopped and we need to get to
Speaker 8: that next level of stopping them.
Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time on the campus of
Speaker 1: the University of Michigan. I went to a debate camp
Speaker 1: there over the summers. I was shocked to learn that
Speaker 1: you all don't have air conditioning in the summer in Michigan.
Speaker 1: That would be a human rights violation in the state
Speaker 1: of Florida. But you made a really interesting point earlier.
Speaker 1: You said that the University of Michigan was acting in
Speaker 1: concert with the Chinese Communist Party, and I wondered when
Speaker 1: I first saw this story whether or not the university
Speaker 1: was a victim of infiltration or whether they had taken action,
Speaker 1: in your eyes, to invite this type of activity from
Speaker 1: Chinese researchers that could harm agriculture throughout our country.
Speaker 8: Well, you've seen over the last several years, over the
Speaker 8: last decade, especially that you have these friends of China,
Speaker 8: these s American friendship organizations or foundations that the Chinese
Speaker 8: Communist Party fund help organize and help build affiliates on
Speaker 8: university campuses to try to push curriculum. And we've seen
Speaker 8: this time after time, and university after university, and it's
Speaker 8: a very corrupting because they're always looking for more money
Speaker 8: and trying to increase these exchanges. You saw that with
Speaker 8: Tim Watson, some of these exchanges that happened from Minnesota
Speaker 8: to China, and you're seeing some of the same stuff
Speaker 8: unfortunately in your state of Florida. The University of Florida
Speaker 8: rejected are the former president of the University of Michigan
Speaker 8: just this week. And I think part of it is
Speaker 8: not just it's beyond this wokeness. This diversity, equity, inclusion
Speaker 8: is DII. You can't, you know, change who you are
Speaker 8: in the history that you are. But it's about time
Speaker 8: that I think folks on the writer are standing up.
Speaker 8: I'm somebody that went to Hillsdale College. You've probably heard
Speaker 8: of Hillsdale, one of the few schools in the nation
Speaker 8: that don't accept any federal or state aid at all.
Speaker 8: Very independent, believes in our founding American excepttionalism. And unfortunately,
Speaker 8: when you only have three percent of college professors nationally
Speaker 8: they're actually Republicans, you get this kind of corruption that's
Speaker 8: going on.
Speaker 1: Final question for you, Senator, do you believe that this
Speaker 1: was an act of war by China against the United States.
Speaker 8: If it's not an active war, it's a continued escalation,
Speaker 8: isn't it. I mean, time after time, you've seen just
Speaker 8: here in Michigan, a Chinese national voting in our election.
Speaker 8: Just last year you saw three Chinese getting arrested for,
Speaker 8: you know, trying to infiltrate a military base here here
Speaker 8: in Michigan. And now they're bringing in pathogens to attack
Speaker 8: our food supply, to attack our people. This is this
Speaker 8: is raw needs to be stopped. We need to join
Speaker 8: with President Trump and continue to make sure that we
Speaker 8: pushed back against these Chinese Communist Party infiltrations around around
Speaker 8: Michigan and the United.
Speaker 1: States Republican Senate leader Eric Nesbitt, he's running for a leader.
Speaker 1: Where can folks go to find out about your campaign
Speaker 1: and follow you on the trail?
Speaker 8: Yeah, asbit forgovernor dot com.
Speaker 2: That's two teas.
Speaker 8: There's only one Eric with an a probably running anywhere
Speaker 8: in the United States of America or on Twitter, Eric
Speaker 8: Nesbitt or Facebook follow us. We're going to continue to
Speaker 8: engage folks and point out what the Chinese Communist Party
Speaker 8: is actually doing to the United States of America and
Speaker 8: their infiltration to try to destroy our way of life.
Speaker 1: Leader Nasbud, thanks for coming on the program and sharing
Speaker 1: your perspective.
Speaker 2: Stay safe out there on the trail.
Speaker 8: God bless you. Thanks mate, Matt and.
Speaker 2: And coming up.
Speaker 1: Elon Musk has exited his official public service, but we
Speaker 1: think he'll be around offering his opinion on a number
Speaker 1: of things. He's doing so a lot lately, and we've
Speaker 1: got veteran ACE reporter Mark Kaputo from Axios here to
Speaker 1: share his latest reporting and maybe to debate a few
Speaker 1: features of it with me back after a quick break.
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Speaker 1: President Donald Trump and Elon Musk, It's been one big,
Speaker 1: beautiful partnership. President Trump provided the candidacy, the leadership, the vision,
Speaker 1: the gravitas. Elon Musk expanded our coalition. His mind is
Speaker 1: inspiring young people with visions of the future. His resources
Speaker 1: were critical, and the technical innovations Elon brought to electioneering
Speaker 1: will likely be studied by political scientists for decades. But
Speaker 1: one thing is clear. Elon's role in the administration has changed.
Speaker 1: The law limits a special government employee to one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty days of service.
Speaker 2: That time has now elapsed.
Speaker 1: Elon will undoubtedly continue as an advisor to President Trump,
Speaker 1: and we want to explore the contours of this evolution.
Speaker 1: Axios has published a fresh piece outlining what veteran reporter
Speaker 1: Mark Caputo believes are the reasons for this change in
Speaker 1: the Trump Elon dynamic. He cites Elon's alleged desire to stay,
Speaker 1: disagreement over NASA HR, the decision not to use starlink
Speaker 1: at FAA, and disagreement over electrical vehicle policy as reasons
Speaker 1: for the less than cozy relationship. Now, I know both
Speaker 1: President Trump and Elon Musk. I have been around them
Speaker 1: and observed their dynamic. I met with both of them
Speaker 1: for hours during the transition, and I think I have
Speaker 1: a clear understanding.
Speaker 2: Of their goals.
Speaker 1: And I actually think that axios Mark Kapuro is wrong
Speaker 1: in his diagnosis, and so I invited him on the
Speaker 1: program to discuss Mark.
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: So I usually follow your reporting and agree with a
Speaker 1: lot of what you say, But here's my theory of
Speaker 1: the case, and I'll let you attack it. Really, this
Speaker 1: is about key priorities, and the real reason Elon Musk
Speaker 1: was in this movement was spending. He talked about it
Speaker 1: all the time on the trail. He obsessed about spending
Speaker 1: life during the transition, and really for Trump in his base,
Speaker 1: it was more so immigration. And so here with this
Speaker 1: thrust of legislative activity, you see some tension there, and
Speaker 1: I think it's more of that than the pecuniary interests
Speaker 1: that you identified.
Speaker 2: But I'll give you, I'll give you something.
Speaker 3: So what is it?
Speaker 9: Yeah, what we did is we tracked these sort of
Speaker 9: four inflection points over time, and perhaps one of the
Speaker 9: biggest ones is what happened with NASA. The administrator, who
Speaker 9: was a Musk ally was summarily canceled on Saturday night,
Speaker 9: somewhat inexplicably, so, I mean, albeit President Trump had said
Speaker 9: it was because this guy had given money to Democrats
Speaker 9: in the past, Isaacman as his name. And after that,
Speaker 9: the buzz on the outside of the White House and
Speaker 9: around the White House was this was being done as
Speaker 9: an f you to Elon. After that, Elon Musk's posture
Speaker 9: towards this became very negative, and his posture generally has
Speaker 9: become more negative.
Speaker 3: And there's not really been much of an explanation.
Speaker 9: And your understanding will it doesn't necessarily conflict with what
Speaker 9: I'd written.
Speaker 3: It just supplements.
Speaker 9: It doesn't necessarily explain how did Musk go from like, eh,
Speaker 9: bill big, as the bill is big and the bill
Speaker 9: is a little not beautiful enough. You can't have it
Speaker 9: both big and beautifult the same time. I'm mangling the
Speaker 9: quote from Elon Musk. But sure it doesn't explain how
Speaker 9: he goes from these mild criticisms to that. And what
Speaker 9: we do know is over time and what we were
Speaker 9: told by people who had been involved with Elon Musk
Speaker 9: during this process, is that repeated efforts or repeated times
Speaker 9: where he wanted things and he didn't get them, and
Speaker 9: ultimately Saturday night, yeah, the NASS administrator and we are yep, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do think that there's another reasonable explanation, though, it's
Speaker 1: that he wasn't there anymore. He wasn't under the roof
Speaker 1: of the Oval office in the West Wing. Isn't it
Speaker 1: quite possible that Elon Musk had reservations about the spending
Speaker 1: levels in this bill. He respected his friendship with President
Speaker 1: Trump and the importunity he had been given to be
Speaker 1: on the team enough where he wasn't going to have
Speaker 1: a full frontal attack while serving there, So he graciously departs,
Speaker 1: but then once his voice heard heard on the spending.
Speaker 3: Level, certainly.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 9: Now, the question is, is having your voice heard and
Speaker 9: having heard like that are two separate things?
Speaker 3: Kind of a false choice to say either, you got.
Speaker 9: Yeah, he's he's a billionaire, he's the richest man in the.
Speaker 3: World who owns his own platform.
Speaker 9: He certainly can create his own weather patterns and his
Speaker 9: own title patterns, and he's certainly done that. The ultimate gauge,
Speaker 9: I guess for the way in which this is the
Speaker 9: ultimate gauge for measuring his reaction is the fact that
Speaker 9: now he's just kind of talked himself more into boldness,
Speaker 9: and he certainly crossed the line. Now, we outlined four
Speaker 9: different inflection points you mentioned I think three of them,
Speaker 9: but the fourth is actually what you mentioned, which is
Speaker 9: we were told he wanted to stay in the White
Speaker 9: House a bit longer in some sort of some sort
Speaker 9: of special governmental employee status and was told no. The implication,
Speaker 9: and no one's quite said it to us, is that
Speaker 9: there was a measure of sour graves. I think we
Speaker 9: can all agree is this looks like quite the bromance
Speaker 9: breakup at the moment. Albeit Donald Trump is sort of
Speaker 9: just ghosting Elon Musk, at least publicly, and not responding
Speaker 9: to him, which displays a remarkably Untrumpian sense of impulse control. Normally,
Speaker 9: I think Trump would be hitting back, and he's not now,
Speaker 9: and he's being very disappointed.
Speaker 1: And I think that is to some degree a sign
Speaker 1: of appreciation from President Trump for all that Elon Musk
Speaker 1: did in the campaign to help him be successful, particularly
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. You cover President Trump in the White House,
Speaker 1: you also cover Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. I thought it
Speaker 1: was very, very interesting that Ron de Santis was criticizing
Speaker 1: all of the Republican congressman who had voted for this bill,
Speaker 1: and some have theorized that Ron de Santis actually offers
Speaker 1: that criticism somewhat informed on Elon Musk's perspective, and he's
Speaker 1: trying to position himself as a twenty twenty eight front
Speaker 1: runner for the Elon endorsement.
Speaker 2: Do you think there's any merit to that.
Speaker 9: There's one thing I've learned over my years in covering
Speaker 9: Florida politics is to always respect Matt Gates's analysis of
Speaker 9: the way in which the chess pieces can move, So
Speaker 9: I would not discount that as a possibility or perhaps
Speaker 9: even a probability, As you and I both know, while
Speaker 9: he's incredibly socially awkward, Rond de Santis is rather calculating. Albeit,
Speaker 9: the criticism of DeSantis was perhaps said best by Tony Fabrizio,
Speaker 9: a Donald Trump's polster, which is that Rond DeSantis is
Speaker 9: all tactics and no strategy. And nevertheless, he is a
Speaker 9: pretty damn good tactician. He's got a good feel for
Speaker 9: certain things. I wouldn't discount this.
Speaker 1: So from Elon Musk, is this tactics, strategy, impulse? And
Speaker 1: what role do you think Elon plays in the Republican
Speaker 1: Party going forward?
Speaker 3: I should ask you that question. I'm used to being
Speaker 3: the one who's interviewing you.
Speaker 2: Let's face it, I know I'm really enjoying this thoroughly.
Speaker 3: But you know you don't have to talk to my
Speaker 3: spokesman about that. Matt, No, uh, I don't know.
Speaker 9: I do think that while the bromance between Trump and
Speaker 9: and Elon is is a little strained. I smiled earlier
Speaker 9: when you talked about Trump's appreciation for Musk. I just
Speaker 9: got off the phone with another insider who you know
Speaker 9: pretty well, who when I asked him this question, why
Speaker 9: isn't Trump responding? He said the same thing, Like, the
Speaker 9: reality is Donald Trump really likes Elon Musk. He loves
Speaker 9: the guy, right, and so he understands it Elon's upset
Speaker 9: and he's just not going to build on that. And
Speaker 9: also that it's not not very sort of helpful. The
Speaker 9: Trump White in many respects sort of a soap opera
Speaker 9: or Trump World is. It's a telenovella. Characters come, characters go,
Speaker 9: they have falling outs, they have falling ins, they wind
Speaker 9: up in new and seemingly improbable storylines. So could I
Speaker 9: see Elon Musk returning to the fold in a robust
Speaker 9: way with Trump by a side.
Speaker 3: Definitely.
Speaker 9: Now, Musk did say earlier that he was sort of
Speaker 9: done with politics, but I think we can see.
Speaker 3: Is that it's just gotten this bloodstream.
Speaker 9: He's got politics my lightest right, and he just can't
Speaker 9: shape the fact that this virus is in him.
Speaker 3: And so I do think he's gonna stay involved. He
Speaker 3: certainly is in one way or another.
Speaker 1: Electing presidents is sometimes an itch that doesn't just go
Speaker 1: away with one scratch. And you're right if you just
Speaker 1: wait around mar A Lago long enough.
Speaker 2: Everyone comes back.
Speaker 1: Joe and Mika are even coming back, so proof that
Speaker 1: no one is ever too far out of the orbit.
Speaker 2: And it reminds me of one.
Speaker 1: Conversation I have with President Trump during the transition, when
Speaker 1: I mean, we were surprised that Elon Musk was as
Speaker 1: personally invested with his time and his focus from Sun
Speaker 1: up to well passed Sun down and all these issues.
Speaker 1: And Trump pulls me over, says Matt, I got a
Speaker 1: lot of geniuses. You're one of my geniuses. But now
Speaker 1: I have a super genius. And he was, of course
Speaker 1: referring to Elon Musk. Mark Caputo of Axios, thanks so
Speaker 1: much for coming on the program and chopping it up
Speaker 1: with me.
Speaker 9: So he basically he had like it was Wiley Coyote, right,
Speaker 9: like Wiley Coyote super genius from the old Warner Brothers cartoons.
Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm sure that there will be accusations of
Speaker 1: worse than Wiley Coyote before.
Speaker 2: This is all done with.
Speaker 3: Thank you, man, I'll see you.
Speaker 2: Take care.
Speaker 1: And coming up, we got major economic issues at play
Speaker 1: during this important legislations being debated in the Congress. We're
Speaker 1: gonna break down what it means regarding the debt, inflation
Speaker 1: and prices after.
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Speaker 1: As Congress continues to debate key features of tax and
Speaker 1: spending policy, we wanted to dig into the weeds regarding
Speaker 1: the impact of those key discussions on the American economy
Speaker 1: and your family budget.
Speaker 2: Will rising federal debt impact inflation? Probably?
Speaker 1: Can that be fully offset by increases in productivity and
Speaker 1: lower energy costs and growth. President Trump is pursuing all options,
Speaker 1: including calling on FED Chairman Jerome Powell to lower interest
Speaker 1: rates on truth Social Today, he said adp number out
Speaker 1: too late. Powell must now lower the rate. He is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Europe has lowered the rate nine times to late Powell,
Speaker 1: quite the nickname. If President Trump's tax cuts from his
Speaker 1: first term are not extended, how much more bill American
Speaker 1: families have to pay. Congressman Keith self told you that
Speaker 1: America's headed to a fifty trillion dollar debt for sure.
Speaker 10: Even if we get this bill right, we're going to
Speaker 10: go from thirty six trillion dollars in debt to fifty
Speaker 10: trillion over the next few years. So this bill is
Speaker 10: not a panacea to start cutting into the debt. It
Speaker 10: only slows the growth of the deficit, which adds to
Speaker 10: the debt, So the.
Speaker 2: Debt will continue to grow. And yet we're calling this
Speaker 2: bill historic.
Speaker 10: That tells you the dire circumstances the United States of
Speaker 10: America federal government is in.
Speaker 1: Is this type of crippling debt a certainty? And if so,
Speaker 1: how should we prepare for it? Joining us now Austrian economist,
Speaker 1: he's done research at the Heritage Foundation and the Mesa's Institute,
Speaker 1: Peter saint On. Peter, as you're watching these debates go
Speaker 1: on in the United States Senate regarding the spending levels
Speaker 1: of this legislation, how should Americans be thinking about the
Speaker 1: inflationary impact and how that debt will impact their lives
Speaker 1: and their budgets.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think the biggest surprise here has been that
Speaker 11: we have had the dream team up there for the
Speaker 11: past couple of months. Right, So we had Elon Musk,
Speaker 11: who's clearly very dedicated to shrinking government spending. Donald Trump
Speaker 11: in his first term, every single year before COVID, he
Speaker 11: kept proposing big cuts. Congress of course said no. And
Speaker 11: we've got unified control in all of Washington. We've got
Speaker 11: Republicans have been talking for one hundred years now, just
Speaker 11: elect us.
Speaker 2: So we're going to cut the spending. And here we go.
Speaker 11: So we're looking at about two and a half trillion
Speaker 11: dollars deficits. The big beautiful bill is going to crank
Speaker 11: that up there have You know the funny thing when
Speaker 11: they talk moderates, right, you read about this bill on
Speaker 11: the Wall Street Journal or something, and they talk about
Speaker 11: how the moderates the rhinos want to raise spending. Well,
Speaker 11: wait a minute, eighty ninety percent of the Republican base
Speaker 11: wants spending cut. These guys are not the moderates. The
Speaker 11: moderates here who are doing what the Republican voters want
Speaker 11: are the guys were trying to cut it, guys like
Speaker 11: Mike Lee Ran Paul, guys who are trying to make
Speaker 11: much bigger cuts. But unfortunately, as you know, the Rhinos
Speaker 11: are running the show. And so it looks like there's
Speaker 11: going to be a massive bill. The aggregate amount that
Speaker 11: it adds to the national debt, depending on how you count,
Speaker 11: it could be three trillion, it could be up to
Speaker 11: six trillion. The spending cuts are all, of course in
Speaker 11: the late years. They're basically putting that off to another Congress.
Speaker 11: But all the good stuff is happening up front. So
Speaker 11: this is taking us. It's accelerating the path that we've
Speaker 11: been running down now towards a fifty trillion dollar national debt.
Speaker 11: And that's something it really it took off during COVID,
Speaker 11: Like every crisis, they ramped up spending. The question always
Speaker 11: been are we going to get that back down? Is
Speaker 11: that just a Biden thing? A lot of people were
Speaker 11: counting on the Republicans to make that happen, to try
Speaker 11: to get us back down towards that twenty nineteen spending.
Speaker 11: It looks like that is not happening.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Our friend Senator Ran Paul says, when the Democrats are
Speaker 1: in charge, Republicans are the Conservative party, and when the
Speaker 1: Republicans are in charge, there is no Conservative party. He
Speaker 1: said that some time ago, but I know he feels
Speaker 1: the frustration of this spending level right now being where
Speaker 1: it is. If that cohort you just described in the Senate,
Speaker 1: the Ron Johnson's, Rick Scott, Mike Lee, ran Paul group
Speaker 1: a word to be successful at attacking some of the spending.
Speaker 1: What do you think is some of the most fruitful
Speaker 1: area where you don't lose the votes of Murkowski, Collins,
Speaker 1: Josh Holly, people who don't want to see any changes
Speaker 1: to the medicaid program.
Speaker 11: Yeah, probably right, So Medicaid is the biggest one. Just
Speaker 11: linking that so that able, blonded people are not getting handouts.
Speaker 11: You know, Medicaid kind of became a universal basic income,
Speaker 11: and there are some censors. Republicans why, I think are
Speaker 11: sort of counting on that to buy votes. The other
Speaker 11: student loans, so Mike Lee says, just get out of it,
Speaker 11: quit it. You know, if it's a real major then
Speaker 11: you can borrow money from a bank, like if you're
Speaker 11: going to become a doctor or an engineer or something.
Speaker 11: Banks will Historically they did lend you.
Speaker 2: Money for that.
Speaker 11: However, nobody's going to lend you money to go get
Speaker 11: a gender studies degree, and that is as it should be.
Speaker 11: So you could argue, just get the government out of
Speaker 11: student loans altogether. My sort of you know, one of
Speaker 11: my complaints here is that they are not touching any
Speaker 11: of the discretionary right, any of the stuff outside of
Speaker 11: you know, social Security and Medicaid benefits, handouts. They're not
Speaker 11: touching any of that because they say we can't because
Speaker 11: of this is reconciliation. Well, you got military hikes in there. Okay,
Speaker 11: that's discretionary. There are discretionary things in here. They can
Speaker 11: play around with.
Speaker 2: The bird role.
Speaker 11: They could change the rules frankly, so you know, leaving
Speaker 11: all of those hard choices, leaving the USA and the EPA,
Speaker 11: leaving all that out of this so that they can
Speaker 11: you know, deal with that when the filibuster is in play.
Speaker 11: I think that's crazy. You have the power use it,
Speaker 11: so I think that you don't have the sense of
Speaker 11: urgency that I think a lot of voters, a lot
Speaker 11: of Republican voters have that Trump has displayed, that Elon
Speaker 11: has displayed. We don't seem to be seeing that out
Speaker 11: of Congress. Instead, they're sort of making excuses. We can't
Speaker 11: test this reconciliation. What are you going to do?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what you just described the bird rule. I have
Speaker 1: to explain that to the viewers. So in this lower
Speaker 1: threshold you have to achieve where you don't have to
Speaker 1: get sixty votes to pass something. The rule is that
Speaker 1: it can only affect monetary policy. You can't do something like,
Speaker 1: you know, change birthright citizenship in a bill like that.
Speaker 2: And the arbiter about whether.
Speaker 1: Or not something affects monetary policy or not is the
Speaker 1: Senate parliamentarian. So right now, one could say the most
Speaker 1: powerful person in Washington, d C. Is the unelected Senate
Speaker 1: parliamentarian because they are vested with the authority to call
Speaker 1: balls and strikes as to whether or not something is
Speaker 1: allowed in the bill, which is just maddening to hear. Now,
Speaker 1: you talked about some of the discretionary spending. That's only
Speaker 1: what eleven twelve percent of the bus. Don't we have
Speaker 1: to attack some of the major mandatory drivers of spending
Speaker 1: if we want any path off of you know, going
Speaker 1: to fifty trillion in debt.
Speaker 11: For sure, and you know some of the areas that
Speaker 11: some of these physical concertive have mentioned, right, So there's
Speaker 11: the medicaid, there's a student loan, uh, there's the eve,
Speaker 11: the the you know, green energy handouts, even though there
Speaker 11: are a bunch of you know, moderate or rhino Republicans
Speaker 11: who don't want to cut those. I think the biggest
Speaker 11: one though here, is really tactical. This is something that
Speaker 11: Rand has talked about, for example, which is pairing this
Speaker 11: bill with an increase in the debt ceiling gives up
Speaker 11: a huge amount of leverage when it comes time to
Speaker 11: set those discretionary budgets. So we saw a couple of
Speaker 11: months ago Chuck Schumer back down on a government shutdown.
Speaker 11: You know, because the Democrat base at this point is
Speaker 11: government workers. We needed to use that. You know, there
Speaker 11: are very few points of leverage to cut spending during
Speaker 11: that discretionary discussion because you have the filibuster, which means
Speaker 11: that you've got the unit party in charge. So that
Speaker 11: was one of the key points of leverage. Bundling a
Speaker 11: four trillion dollar hike that that ceiling. Not only is
Speaker 11: that very off brand for the small government party, that
Speaker 11: gives up a huge amount of leverage. So you know,
Speaker 11: I think they're going for the quick wins here. They're
Speaker 11: looking at it short term. We really have a historic
Speaker 11: had a historic opportunity to cut some spending, and it
Speaker 11: looks like that's not going to happen. I see some
Speaker 11: people hoping that maybe this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well wait a second, because the White House is saying,
Speaker 1: regardless of what happens with the one big beautiful bill,
Speaker 1: they have this nine billion dollar recision package that is
Speaker 1: the first of several recision packages. Are you hopeful that
Speaker 1: the you know, the rifle shot recision strategy that follows
Speaker 1: this legislation will lead to any spending cuts?
Speaker 11: Nine BILLI million, there's pretty small potatoes, you know.
Speaker 3: I would be happy to.
Speaker 11: Be wrong, you know, if they if they come out
Speaker 11: with an absolute assembly line of these resisions and they
Speaker 11: grew I that that, yeah, do.
Speaker 2: You think it'll pass?
Speaker 1: It's small, but it's you know, the journey of a thousand,
Speaker 1: you know, miles has to start with a single step.
Speaker 2: Right, you know.
Speaker 1: I Mean what I worry about is you do all
Speaker 1: the big spending, then you float a nine billion dollar
Speaker 1: recision package that fails, and then we just sort of
Speaker 1: lose the gumption to fight on spending cuts.
Speaker 2: That's my concern. Do you share it.
Speaker 11: Yeah, absolutely, do you know, I think that reconciliation because
Speaker 11: you can pass it with you know, fifty votes. That's
Speaker 11: really the opportunity. You got to pack as much as
Speaker 11: you can in there. So if they're if they're stripping
Speaker 11: it out, it's almost like they're giving.
Speaker 2: Up on it.
Speaker 11: And so they're gonna at this point pretend to pass
Speaker 11: the stuff. I mean, nine billion is getting ridiculed because
Speaker 11: it's such a small number. You know, Elon was hoping
Speaker 11: for one and a half trillion or two trillion.
Speaker 2: And now we're down to nine billion.
Speaker 11: And you know, the response from the leadership in Congress
Speaker 11: is always no, no, this is just the first one, and
Speaker 11: it's gonna be a lot more like this.
Speaker 1: We'll see, yeah, and sometimes we don't even make it
Speaker 1: to the first one. Peter saint Ons, thanks for coming
Speaker 1: on the program and explaining.
Speaker 2: How all this stuff fits together. Very much appreciated. Thanks, math.
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Speaker 1: And coming up, there is a liberal bias and a
Speaker 1: lot of the AI large language models. We've got a
Speaker 1: key political researcher here to go over what it means
Speaker 1: for the future. Of information warfare back in a moment.
Speaker 6: Hey everyone, here's a question for you.
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Speaker 1: Ever, Big text AI has a liberal bias problem, and
Speaker 1: it's not a glitch, it's a feature of the system.
Speaker 1: Human Events dropped a bombshell exposing how systems like chat,
Speaker 1: ept and Google's algorithms left spitting out progressive talking points
Speaker 1: while sidelining a lot of conservative viewpoints and voices. From
Speaker 1: dodging conservative content to framing neutral queries with woke spin,
Speaker 1: these AI tools reflect the Silicon Valley elite worldview, not
Speaker 1: that of everyday Americans. According to this piece, conservative media
Speaker 1: has lost billions of dollars due to Big text censorship,
Speaker 1: while left leaning outlet Scott Algorithm boosts and wires from
Speaker 1: usaid this is no secret. In twenty twenty one, the
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, not known as a bastion of conservatism,
Speaker 1: conducted a study and found that Facebook was intentionally censoring conservatives.
Speaker 1: To the surprise of no one. The Biden administration didn't
Speaker 1: stop it. In fact, they were some of the folks
Speaker 1: encouraging it. So how do we remedy this and a
Speaker 1: world where AI is increasingly handling the world's workload and worldview.
Speaker 1: So joining us now to discuss is Larry Ward. He
Speaker 1: is the man who's been sounding an alarm on this
Speaker 1: matter and as the president of Political Media.
Speaker 2: So, Larry, how did you go about the research.
Speaker 1: To showcase this liberal bias and a lot of these lllms.
Speaker 12: So I've been in the digital political space for over
Speaker 12: twenty years. We host lots of conservative publications and organizations,
Speaker 12: and we've been in this parallel economy space since two
Speaker 12: thousand and four building our own marketing tech and helping
Speaker 12: helping conservatives kind of avoid the censorship and the demonetization model.
Speaker 2: But so many people are using AI.
Speaker 1: Now, what risks do you conservative viewpoints face to be squelched?
Speaker 2: Out.
Speaker 12: Well, I mean, just look at when you Google something
Speaker 12: and you get the first page of Google and it's
Speaker 12: all negative. Right, that's what people make their decisions on currently.
Speaker 12: Now with AI, it's the first prompt. So if you google, say,
Speaker 12: for example, you google tell me about Congressman Matt Gates,
Speaker 12: it's going to have a liberal bias and you actually
Speaker 12: have to argue with it. Yes, you actually have to
Speaker 12: argue with it in terms of getting it to give
Speaker 12: you give us, you know, the actual facts about your background.
Speaker 1: I don't even have time to argue with all of
Speaker 1: the humans who believe false things about me, much less
Speaker 1: the robots.
Speaker 2: Is that what we have to do.
Speaker 1: We have to go we have to go joust digitally
Speaker 1: with the robots to correct the record.
Speaker 12: Yeah, right now we do because it's all of the
Speaker 12: models have been trained on liberal publications. You know, Amazon
Speaker 12: just had a big deal with uh with AWS where
Speaker 12: AWS and Amazon had a big deal with.
Speaker 2: New York Times.
Speaker 12: Yeah, uh, probably hundreds of millions of dollars to feed
Speaker 12: New York Times. What maybe it lost from usaid right?
Speaker 12: AI D and and so it's pulling that content from
Speaker 12: the from the New York Times.
Speaker 2: So what do we do to fight back other than
Speaker 2: gripe with robots.
Speaker 12: Well, the first thing we can do is we can
Speaker 12: work with the administration to get them to mandate these
Speaker 12: operations in one way or another. Pressure mandate, get a coggression.
Speaker 12: What type of these these llms, these AI companies to
Speaker 12: not only weigh conservative publications the same as a weigh
Speaker 12: liberal publications because it's all based on weights.
Speaker 2: Is there transparency into that waiting system? Now?
Speaker 12: No, absolutely not.
Speaker 1: So would that be a driver of more neutrality if
Speaker 1: if there was a negative waiting regarding conservative publications or viewpoints,
Speaker 1: that that at least be disclosed to the viewers so
Speaker 1: they could self select to a model that would that
Speaker 1: would be more reflective of reality.
Speaker 12: It would absolutely have to be transparent. And the second
Speaker 12: part of it is because Silicon Valley has demonetized the publications,
Speaker 12: a lot of them. I mean, O. A. N is
Speaker 12: a great example that has kind of stood in the
Speaker 12: gap and taken and taken a beating from you know,
Speaker 12: from the liberals, from the Democrat and from the Silicon left,
Speaker 12: Silicon Valley. It's it's taken a beating financially, while like
Speaker 12: like you mentioned the New York Times and The Washington
Speaker 12: Post and Politico have all been funded by taxpayers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting that that those things seem to
Speaker 1: work as like a sequence of waves. The first wave
Speaker 1: is the censorship that rolls over you, that limits your reach,
Speaker 1: and then the second wave is the AI training model
Speaker 1: that says, well, obviously what people are consuming are these
Speaker 1: publications that we have elevated to the expense of other
Speaker 1: voices that we've diminished. Do you think that the administration
Speaker 1: can do this without a change in the law or
Speaker 1: does Congress have to get involved.
Speaker 12: I think they can put some pressure that you know,
Speaker 12: President Trump has a tremendous bully pulpit, and these organizations
Speaker 12: they all want favor from the administration.
Speaker 2: You saw who was act So you think we could
Speaker 2: get cajoled compliance. Absolutely, has it gotten better?
Speaker 1: I mean I asked the robot questions about me sometimes,
Speaker 1: and it does seem that they get a little more
Speaker 1: accurate over time.
Speaker 12: Not really, Okay, not really. It's probably because they're learning
Speaker 12: about you and that they probably know that it's you
Speaker 12: asking about you, so over time they'll feed you more
Speaker 12: of what you want to hear. But somebody from the outside,
Speaker 12: you go to a new open a new account, go
Speaker 12: a go to an IP address that they not recognize,
Speaker 12: and you'll get the actual real answer. The second part
Speaker 12: of this is these AI companies have to put their
Speaker 12: money where their mouth is. Not only do they if
Speaker 12: they funding The New York Times with hundreds of millions
Speaker 12: of dollars, they need to fund oan, They need to
Speaker 12: fund groups like Human Events in the Post Millennial and
Speaker 12: Washington Examiner and.
Speaker 2: All of these other operations.
Speaker 12: They need to come to the table with the same
Speaker 12: or better offer because of all of the demount offication.
Speaker 2: I would love just not to any of it.
Speaker 1: A country that's headed to fifty trillion in debt, let
Speaker 1: everybody go fight based on the merit of their reporting
Speaker 1: and their ideas. But do you think that we're headed
Speaker 1: to a world where these AI large language models will
Speaker 1: really be the sole source of news for a lot
Speaker 1: of Americans?
Speaker 2: One percent closer to that. We're very close.
Speaker 12: And it's scary because look what would happen in twenty twenty, say,
Speaker 12: when COVID hit. These AI models would of course they
Speaker 12: would be pulling from the same liberal sources and they'd
Speaker 12: be telling their people that no, you need to get
Speaker 12: this shot, you need to wear the mask you need
Speaker 12: to stay in, of course, not if it's not if
Speaker 12: you have to go to a Black Lives Matter protest.
Speaker 1: And we did learn that Biden administration officials were putting
Speaker 1: pressure on these social media platforms to remove true information.
Speaker 2: Because they just didn't like that. It led to vaccine hesitancy.
Speaker 1: And if you know there's going to be a force
Speaker 1: against the truth, I guess I would prefer it be
Speaker 1: a human that we could expose and harangue in a
Speaker 1: congressional hearing. I don't know how we call in the
Speaker 1: robot in the LM to yell at them for censorship.
Speaker 1: The way we do with humans probably would be tougher.
Speaker 12: It is, And you know what, we have to look
Speaker 12: at AI differently. A lot most people are looking at
Speaker 12: AI as another technology, as an alternative to Google.
Speaker 2: It's not. It's an artificial entity.
Speaker 12: And we have to start looking at it as an
Speaker 12: artificial entity because it can think, it can act, it
Speaker 12: can do.
Speaker 2: Things for you.
Speaker 12: Once it's in the Tesla robots, they'll walk around and
Speaker 12: talk to you and survey drinks and do all this
Speaker 12: other stuff. And we actually have to look at it
Speaker 12: as an entity. If we look at it as an
Speaker 12: entity like a corporation or government or a human. Those
Speaker 12: things have laws and rules and godrails around them, and
Speaker 12: those things have, you know, ways to prevent them from
Speaker 12: causing harm, and we have to start looking at.
Speaker 6: It that way.
Speaker 1: Larry Ward, I'm so glad you are thinking about these things,
Speaker 1: and I hope you're able to make progress in bringing
Speaker 1: some sanity to a system that seems like it's going
Speaker 1: to be increasingly important in how we think about things,
Speaker 1: and how we react to the news.
Speaker 2: And how we live our lives. Appreciate you being with us, Hey,
Speaker 2: thanks for having That's all the time we have.
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Speaker 1: Let's go get them