1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: This pet Life Radio. Let's talk pats. 2 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:27,519 Speaker 2: Welcome to Aquarium Radia. I'm your host, doctor Royano, speaking 3 00:00:27,559 --> 00:00:29,559 to you from the University of Florida. I have this 4 00:00:29,719 --> 00:00:34,439 tropical aquaculture laboratory. Thanks for joining us. Reef aquaria from 5 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,359 nanotanks to large, complex high tech systems have exploded in 6 00:00:38,439 --> 00:00:42,679 popularity with increased knowledge and more advanced lighting infiltration. My 7 00:00:42,799 --> 00:00:46,520 guest today, doctor Alex Hall, a recent betiical graduate with 8 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,280 interest and growing expertise in reef diseases, has made a 9 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,119 name for himself on social media as the reef bet 10 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,119 Join us as we discuss Alex's journey from child hobbyists 11 00:00:57,159 --> 00:01:00,640 to aquatic veterinarian and scientists. We'll be right back after 12 00:01:00,679 --> 00:01:01,439 these messages. 13 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 3: Take a bite out of your competition, advertise your business 14 00:01:07,239 --> 00:01:10,519 with an ad In pet Life Radio podcasts and radio shows, 15 00:01:10,799 --> 00:01:13,480 there is no other pet related media that is as 16 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,599 large and reaches more pet parents and pet lovers than 17 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,599 pet Life Radio with over seven million monthly listeners. 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Slash advertised today. 24 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 4: Let's talk pets on petlifradio dot com. 25 00:01:56,439 --> 00:01:59,799 Speaker 2: Welcome back to aquarium Radia on pet Life Radio guests 26 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:04,159 is doctor Alex Palm, the third in aquatic veterinarian and 27 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,239 researcher with a strong interest in disease and health management 28 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:10,960 of corals, fish, and other reef organisms. Thanks for joining us, 29 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,400 Alex Alight. So a lot of my interviews always start 30 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,360 with a little bit of a kind of personal questioning. 31 00:02:17,479 --> 00:02:19,479 So I want to talk to you a little bit 32 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,759 about some of your early years. You told me your 33 00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:23,960 father had set up a reef tank before you were 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,639 even born. Can you tell us a little bit about 35 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,439 your father's tank and interest in the hobby and how 36 00:02:29,479 --> 00:02:30,319 that influenced you. 37 00:02:30,759 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, So, my dad set up a reef tank about 38 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,000 thirty two years ago. It's actually still up and running. 39 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:39,919 He fell in love with it, you know, all those 40 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,479 years ago, and then finally when I was about five 41 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,680 or six, I started to get more interested into it. 42 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,439 And then when I was about ten years old, we 43 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,919 had a tank crash, lost practically everything. That's when he 44 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,360 decided that he was pretty much done with the hobby 45 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,360 and didn't want to really partake in it anymore after that. 46 00:02:56,599 --> 00:02:58,879 So then I started to take over growing more soft 47 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,759 corals like the mush and some of the leathers and 48 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,120 some of the easier corals to grow. And then over 49 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,879 time I just got more and more interested into it, 50 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,479 got more involved with the corals, and now seven tanks 51 00:03:10,479 --> 00:03:11,680 are running on that system. 52 00:03:12,039 --> 00:03:14,879 Speaker 2: That's great. So you basically just kind of cleaned up 53 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,280 the system after it crashed and kind of restarted again 54 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:19,840 when your dad gave up. 55 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, it was pretty much almost a complete reboot. So 56 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,240 it was nice to finally, you know, redoce some of 57 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,240 the equipment from you know, the older generation that wasn't 58 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,080 as efficient as some of the newer equipment. So I 59 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,639 was able to do some upgrades and made my life 60 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:35,520 a little bit easier. 61 00:03:35,599 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, I'm curious, So what kind of a filtration 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,120 did you have back then? 63 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 5: So it was some filter floss and a homemade skimmer 64 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,759 made out of was it twelve inch PVC pipe and 65 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,639 a bunch of airstones that was all handmade. 66 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: In the wall Wow, that's pretty good. What about lighting? 67 00:03:52,639 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 5: Back then he was running metal halides, but unfortunately the 68 00:03:56,439 --> 00:03:59,199 bulbs that we used to use are no longer manufactured, 69 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,000 so then we switched over to LEDs and T fives. 70 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:05,599 Speaker 2: Okay, cool. So you mentioned you have a lot of 71 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,840 a bunch of tanks. Now I guess you said off 72 00:04:07,879 --> 00:04:11,639 that system. What kind of things are you raising right now? 73 00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:13,759 In those systems? I know you're interested in kind of 74 00:04:13,759 --> 00:04:16,199 culturing different things as well as just you know, raising 75 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:17,600 them for display. 76 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:18,759 Speaker 6: Yeah. 77 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 5: So in the biggest tank, I have one hundred and 78 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:25,399 eighty gallon that's like a mixed reef set up mostly. 79 00:04:25,079 --> 00:04:27,199 Speaker 6: Acroporaut with some soft corals. 80 00:04:27,439 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 5: Then I have a fifty five gallon bubble tip an 81 00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:34,079 enemy only tank, as well as a third gallon bubble 82 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,199 tip and only tank. 83 00:04:35,639 --> 00:04:36,879 Speaker 6: I've got one. 84 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,879 Speaker 5: Little hospital system attached to that, well not really a hospital, 85 00:04:40,879 --> 00:04:43,600 but more of a quarantine, and then two tanks growing 86 00:04:43,639 --> 00:04:47,199 out various species of sps, so small pop stony corals, 87 00:04:47,319 --> 00:04:50,439 LPs large pop stony corals, as well as some softies. 88 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,879 Speaker 2: It's great, all right, Well, I'm gonna switch over a 89 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,399 little bit and let's talk a little bit about your 90 00:04:55,879 --> 00:04:58,800 kind of education, little background, When and how did you 91 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,399 decide to become a vet terinarian and even more specifically 92 00:05:02,519 --> 00:05:04,120 one that works at aquatics. 93 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,439 Speaker 5: I was five years old when I decided I wanted 94 00:05:06,439 --> 00:05:08,199 to be a vet. It's the only job that I 95 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,560 ever knew that I wanted to do. It wasn't until 96 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,759 more in more recent years that I got into the 97 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,040 aquatic medicine. Originally I was I'd say, you know, first 98 00:05:17,079 --> 00:05:20,040 second year of veterinary knowledge in these areas, I became 99 00:05:20,079 --> 00:05:22,480 more interested in that pursuit of knowledge. 100 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: Well that's great. So I guess when you were five 101 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,079 you were thinking kind of just dog and cat pretty much. 102 00:05:27,319 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 6: Yeah. 103 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Did you have other pets at home then, or 104 00:05:30,519 --> 00:05:31,920 was this just something? Yeah? 105 00:05:31,959 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 6: So I've always had a lot of pets at home. 106 00:05:33,319 --> 00:05:36,759 Speaker 5: My father used to breed snakes and lizards in my basement, 107 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,279 so I always was around the reptiles, always had a 108 00:05:39,319 --> 00:05:40,160 lot of big dogs. 109 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out when to ask you. 110 00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:44,560 But somewhere in there, you also have to talk about judo, 111 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,920 since it seems you were quite a judo expert as well. 112 00:05:47,959 --> 00:05:50,399 But maybe start kind of with the education first. 113 00:05:50,759 --> 00:05:54,319 Speaker 5: So I went to Starbuck University, for undergrad majored in 114 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,560 biochemistry and minored in organic chemistry. At that point, I 115 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,240 applied to the Veterinary College in London, so I ended 116 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:04,639 up going over there, And this ended up going there 117 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,399 was I've got my German citizenship, so I wanted to 118 00:06:07,519 --> 00:06:09,560 have my license to be able to practice in the 119 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,079 US and in Europe if I decided one day that 120 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,279 I wanted to go to Europe, so that school allowed 121 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,959 me to have my licensure for both continents. 122 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,319 Speaker 2: Okay, if that makes sense. Yeah, I was curious because 123 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,959 obviously that's kind of quite a distance. So I have 124 00:06:23,079 --> 00:06:25,959 to ask. I know you may not be able to 125 00:06:26,199 --> 00:06:30,279 answer this really wealth not having been here for school, 126 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,720 but do you know of any major differences between how 127 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,480 veterninary schools educate in London versus here in the US. 128 00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:39,639 Speaker 5: The major difference is that I've seen, especially talking to 129 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,199 my friends who've gone to school in the US, is 130 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,600 that in the US, I like your a lot, mom, 131 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,519 there's a lot more guidance and being baby sat in 132 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:52,199 terms of your classes and constantly having exams and constantly 133 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,720 being you know, people check up on your work, whereas 134 00:06:54,759 --> 00:06:57,079 in the UK we only had one exam a year. 135 00:06:57,399 --> 00:06:59,639 It was completely cumuative and it could have been anything 136 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,720 from that year or previous. So it was always constantly 137 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,600 you had to always you weren't able to brain dump. 138 00:07:05,639 --> 00:07:07,759 You weren't able to just you know, shove the information 139 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:09,920 in your head for the exam, take the exam and 140 00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:11,800 forget about it. You had to remember it throughout the 141 00:07:11,959 --> 00:07:12,519 entire year. 142 00:07:13,079 --> 00:07:15,879 Speaker 2: Were they kind of similar or how did you. 143 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they are very similar. 144 00:07:17,839 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 5: There's just you know, some differences in like the parasitology 145 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,399 versus the UK versus the US. Like in the UK 146 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,560 there is virtually no heartworm, whereas in the US that's 147 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,079 more of a more prevalent thing. So it was just knowing, 148 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:34,000 you know, plant toxicology versus the US versus the UK, 149 00:07:34,439 --> 00:07:36,680 infectious disease versus the US and the UK. 150 00:07:36,959 --> 00:07:38,839 Speaker 6: Other than that, it's fairly similar. 151 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,959 Speaker 2: Okay. And what about your classmates relative to kind of 152 00:07:42,959 --> 00:07:45,839 your interest in aquatics and how did you kind of 153 00:07:45,839 --> 00:07:49,399 do aquatics in London? Were there a lot of opportunities 154 00:07:49,639 --> 00:07:50,720 or how did that work? 155 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 5: No, so there wasn't a lot of opportunities. I mostly 156 00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:57,079 self taught, reading as many of the textbooks and the 157 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:58,240 literature that's out there. 158 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 6: Fortunately I've been. 159 00:08:00,079 --> 00:08:03,199 Speaker 5: Entered by doctor Julius Tepper back from the States because 160 00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:05,680 fortunately he lives like thirty minutes for me, well my 161 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,720 home base in New York. So he's been a great 162 00:08:07,759 --> 00:08:11,319 mentor and guidance through like the wabmaster at a qv program. 163 00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:13,759 But other than in school wise, there was no fish 164 00:08:14,199 --> 00:08:17,480 really at all. Even the exotics team there doesn't really 165 00:08:17,519 --> 00:08:21,079 talk about fish or doesn't see fish. So in school 166 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,959 wise and people, you know, learning about my interest in 167 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,240 fish either people are really ecstatic about it and very interested, like, oh, 168 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:31,040 how you know, how is that progressing? Whereas other people 169 00:08:31,079 --> 00:08:34,080 sometimes they don't really understand, like oh, you see goldfish 170 00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:36,720 and you know, sometimes it's a little more in depth then, 171 00:08:36,759 --> 00:08:38,519 you know, just like the normal problems. 172 00:08:38,879 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: Right, were you able to do externships I guess in 173 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,159 kind of aquatics and did you want to talk about 174 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:44,480 any of that? 175 00:08:44,639 --> 00:08:46,799 Speaker 5: Yeah, So fortunately I got to do some internships at 176 00:08:46,799 --> 00:08:48,919 the Long Island Aquarium, got to work with them and 177 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,639 some of their pathology team, and then fortunately with COVID 178 00:08:53,039 --> 00:08:55,480 or unfortunately with COVID, I was home for about a 179 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,519 year and a half. So during that time I was 180 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,279 able to work with doctor tepper and get some more 181 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:00,480 hands on experience. 182 00:09:00,879 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 2: Well that's great now, I noticed too when you kind 183 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,360 of gave me some of your materials that you have done. 184 00:09:06,399 --> 00:09:07,879 Are really interested in research. 185 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 6: Yeah. 186 00:09:08,639 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 5: So in my undergrad one of my senior research project 187 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,960 was chemoselective modification of adenoviruses. So at that time I 188 00:09:17,039 --> 00:09:19,600 was really involved in chemistry and really loved the organics. 189 00:09:19,799 --> 00:09:24,600 And that project was essentially it was theorized that adenoviruses 190 00:09:24,759 --> 00:09:29,039 would accumulate in thyroid cancer tissue. So my lab was 191 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,080 trying to the lab I was working with was trying 192 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,799 to prove that. So my job was to synthesize molecule 193 00:09:34,879 --> 00:09:39,120 that would connect the virus to a radioactive marker molecule 194 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,799 so that once those two were connected and that virus 195 00:09:41,879 --> 00:09:43,879 was introduced to the body, we'd be able to see 196 00:09:43,919 --> 00:09:47,039 where in the body that virus was accumulating via PET scan. 197 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:53,120 The second project was just a protein synthesis helping another lab. 198 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,480 They were trying to help quantify bacterial proteins in the 199 00:09:56,519 --> 00:09:59,919 periplasmic space, so I was just helping synthesize proteins for 200 00:10:00,039 --> 00:10:00,639 them to do that. 201 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 2: Okay, And then in vet school. 202 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 6: So at school, I was working with French bulldogs. 203 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: And now you're you're pursuing a master's. So you've got 204 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,519 your VET degree and you decide you want to kind 205 00:10:13,519 --> 00:10:16,159 of go on a little further. Can you explain, I 206 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:18,759 guess what you want to do with your masters and 207 00:10:18,799 --> 00:10:20,080 what you're working on as well. 208 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 5: So my master's is infectious disease, and for me with 209 00:10:24,919 --> 00:10:27,639 the fish, ninety percent of the problems that I see 210 00:10:27,639 --> 00:10:29,960 are infectious disease related. So I really wanted to have 211 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:35,120 a better understanding of different infectious processes. Not necessarily that 212 00:10:35,159 --> 00:10:37,720 those are the exact processes that I'm dealing with, but 213 00:10:38,279 --> 00:10:40,480 that's a really nice way of, you know, being able 214 00:10:40,519 --> 00:10:43,759 to relate to other problems and you know, figuring out 215 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,120 how you know a certain disease process works in another animal. 216 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:48,720 It may not be the same in fish, but you 217 00:10:48,759 --> 00:10:52,320 could have similar ideologies. So that's why I started to 218 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,600 pursue that masters and I would love to eventually go 219 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:55,519 on for my pH d. 220 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: Right, all right, so I'm gonna switch gears a little bit, 221 00:10:59,279 --> 00:11:03,159 and now we're going to talk about the aquatics and 222 00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:06,679 disease and you being an official veterinarian, so you are 223 00:11:07,039 --> 00:11:09,919 both a veterinarian now and a grad student. So how 224 00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:12,480 are you juggling those two things? And are you kind 225 00:11:12,519 --> 00:11:14,440 of working with private clients as well? 226 00:11:14,879 --> 00:11:17,879 Speaker 6: What do you mean by private clients like, yeah. 227 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,759 Speaker 2: Fish clients, yeah, or both either either. 228 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,279 Speaker 5: Right now, I work full time as a small animal 229 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,320 vet end part time, and I'm hoping to be more 230 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,600 full time with the fish currently. The hospital that I'm 231 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:33,000 working at currently is supporting these fish streams and hopefully 232 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,120 within the next coming months having a fish only facility. 233 00:11:36,519 --> 00:11:39,399 And in terms of juggling everything, it's a seven day 234 00:11:39,399 --> 00:11:42,480 a week process right now. And I squeeze, you know, 235 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,000 studying in you know, after work or in the middle 236 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,320 of the night, and I see my fish clients. I 237 00:11:47,399 --> 00:11:52,279 do a lot via like telehealth, and occasionally I'll go 238 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,200 out to those clients for you know, diagnostic purposes, but 239 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,440 a lot fortunately has been via you know, email text. Fortunately, 240 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,519 I'll have client, you know, they'll have like a microscope, 241 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,519 I'll have them scale, scrape, I'll show them how to 242 00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:05,080 do all that procedure and they'll have them just send 243 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:06,840 me the images to review. 244 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 2: Okay, that's great. Are you working in Long Island then yes, okay, cool. 245 00:12:12,039 --> 00:12:13,759 You can say what's the name of your clinic. 246 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 6: Massive PEAKUA pet VET Massive people. 247 00:12:15,879 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: Okay, sounds good. So if anyone has any fish issues, 248 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:20,320 they can kind of find you there. Yeah. 249 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:20,879 Speaker 6: Absolutely. 250 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,879 Speaker 5: And then so then the offshoot is Aquatic Veterinary Medicine 251 00:12:24,919 --> 00:12:26,159 and Diagnostic Services. 252 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 2: Okay, sounds good. Now you co authored a chapter on 253 00:12:29,639 --> 00:12:32,159 coral and aquatic inver diseases, which is, you know, obviously 254 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,000 really cool at this stage for you, can you can 255 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,279 you tell us how you got involved with that. 256 00:12:36,519 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 5: So I have a passion for imaging or microscopee, and 257 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,600 I really like to image parasites because I've always gotten 258 00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:47,159 frustrated looking at texts and seeing like literature and seeing 259 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,879 like black and white, grainy images and not being able 260 00:12:49,919 --> 00:12:52,759 to really look and I identify what I'm looking at. 261 00:12:53,159 --> 00:12:56,399 So over time, over the years, as I found parasites 262 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,960 and different organisms, I've tried to take really nice, high 263 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,879 resolution images. I showed those images to doctor Tapper, and 264 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,639 he thought it would be interesting for me to use 265 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,799 those images for this textbook. So then I started writing 266 00:13:08,799 --> 00:13:12,519 about these diseases and how I've encountered them in potential treatments, 267 00:13:12,799 --> 00:13:15,759 and then wrap that up all together for this textbook chapter. 268 00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: Well, that's great, so I am going to you know what, 269 00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:22,960 let's take a short break and we'll continue our discussion 270 00:13:23,039 --> 00:13:27,600 with aquatic veterinarian and researcher doctor Alec Paul the Reft 271 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:35,679 after these messages from our sponsors. Mollie, here's your dinner, zeus. 272 00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:39,440 That's not get food. 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That's cattreetrade dot com, z A T 284 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:21,559 t R E E t R A y dot com. 285 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,279 Speaker 2: Let's talk, let's done, Petal Headline. 286 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:36,919 Speaker 8: Radio, Petlight Radio dot com. 287 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,679 Speaker 2: We're back and continuing our conversation with my guest doctor 288 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,879 Alex paul read that. So you talked a little bit 289 00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:46,759 about kind of your background and in terms of working 290 00:14:46,879 --> 00:14:49,840 now as a veterinarian. You also mentioned to me that 291 00:14:49,919 --> 00:14:52,799 you are consulting for the Long Island Aquarium. Can you 292 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,600 explain a little bit about your history with the facility 293 00:14:55,759 --> 00:14:57,639 and how you ended up working there with them. 294 00:14:58,039 --> 00:15:00,799 Speaker 5: I've been interning there on and office since I was 295 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,039 in my early teens. I've always been really involved and 296 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,679 interested in the reef tank there, and the curator, uh, 297 00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:10,200 mister Joe Aulo has always been a real big mentor 298 00:15:10,279 --> 00:15:13,919 of mine in terms of reefing and problems that I've 299 00:15:13,919 --> 00:15:16,039 had in the past. So we've always bounced ideas back 300 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,279 and forth with each other. So once I graduated and 301 00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:22,240 once I've became more involved in the medicine aspect, they 302 00:15:22,279 --> 00:15:25,879 were looking for someone who's involved in the reef knowledge 303 00:15:25,919 --> 00:15:28,759 to be able to do some medicine related things, because 304 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:31,399 treating reef tanks can be really quite difficult. You know, 305 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,159 when we use different antimicrobial drugs or different drugs in general, 306 00:15:36,279 --> 00:15:39,000 it may be toxic to not only the organisms you're 307 00:15:39,039 --> 00:15:41,159 trying to kill, and that that's The big problem is 308 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,320 when we treat you know, dogs and cats, the medications 309 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,000 that we give aren't necessarily toxic to the organism, the 310 00:15:48,039 --> 00:15:50,440 host organism with the dog, and is toxic to the 311 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,600 you know, the microbes, whereas there's a lot of microbes 312 00:15:53,639 --> 00:15:56,120 in a reef bank that you necessarily don't want to kill. 313 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,039 So it's becoming very selective and figuring out what exactly 314 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,600 can be done when, when, at what concentrations. 315 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent, excellent points. Now I think, yeah, I know, 316 00:16:05,399 --> 00:16:08,360 we corresponded a while ago before, and then then I've 317 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,639 noticed that you were really active on social media, which 318 00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:12,440 is which is great. I think there's a lot to 319 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,440 be said for kind of educating the public and you know, 320 00:16:16,519 --> 00:16:19,679 hobbyists enthusiasts on you know, the fact that there are 321 00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:23,679 actually veterinarians and people seeing you know, aquatics. You got 322 00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:27,080 a lot of really decent following on Instagram for example. 323 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,600 So what made you decide to kind of go all 324 00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:32,320 out on social media and to engage the public and 325 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:33,879 why do you think there's so much interest? 326 00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:35,279 Speaker 6: So it all started. 327 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 5: I always used to send the pictures I would take 328 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,000 to you know, fellow reef hobbyists, fellow aquatic hobbyists, and 329 00:16:41,039 --> 00:16:43,279 they always I always got really good feedback and they 330 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,559 always told me, oh, you should share these pictures, you know, 331 00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:47,960 other people would be interested. I put it off for 332 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,759 a long time and just kept collecting pictures and kept 333 00:16:50,759 --> 00:16:54,000 them you know between my friends and you know, other hobbyists. 334 00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:57,519 And then eventually I was convinced to set up the account, 335 00:16:57,679 --> 00:16:59,840 and then it started to grow a lot faster than 336 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,759 I ever expected. So then I just kept continually you know, 337 00:17:02,879 --> 00:17:06,599 posting you know, the interestings that interesting, you know, items 338 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,960 that I've found over time. And as you know, the 339 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,039 more I've posted, the more I've realized that people are 340 00:17:12,039 --> 00:17:13,799 really interested in these topics. 341 00:17:14,039 --> 00:17:15,519 Speaker 6: So I've just continued to do so. 342 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,519 Speaker 5: I think that a lot of people have a lot 343 00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:20,400 of you know, fish are common in these in people's households, 344 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:21,839 and I think a lot of people have a lot 345 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:26,680 of problems, and the internet not necessarily has great resources, 346 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,400 and it's a lot of in fish medicine, the amount 347 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,920 of anecdotal reports are massive, and a lot of people 348 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,240 have a lot of strong feelings. So I like to 349 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,640 create like an unbiased, you know, scientific platform rather than 350 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,519 you know, my feelings and thoughts. 351 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 6: But more through my scientific lens. 352 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:47,839 Speaker 2: That sounds good. You don't want to set up like 353 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,839 battle lines or anything. I'm just kidding. So speaking of then, 354 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,799 what kind of feedback and what kind of questions do 355 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,759 you get? You know, are there any specific questions that 356 00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:01,920 are pretty common that you are seeing routinely that you 357 00:18:02,079 --> 00:18:02,839 might be of interest. 358 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,599 Speaker 5: Most commonly, I asked, you know, parasite identification, or you know, 359 00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:11,039 my coral or my fish looks funny, what's wrong with it? 360 00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:13,319 Is a very common one. Or you know this coral 361 00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:16,920 is slowly decaying over time? What could those possibilities be? 362 00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:20,079 Is also very very common, And then how do they? 363 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,079 And then the next step is how do we treat 364 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,039 and get rid of those problems, which is a lot 365 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,680 more gets a lot more complex because a lot of 366 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,759 these infectious diseases and corals, there hasn't been any you know, 367 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,839 real scientific literature that's described treatment in these species. It's 368 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,160 mostly you know, anecdotal reports that aren't really replicatable. So 369 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,240 my goal is to go back through these anecdotal reports 370 00:18:44,279 --> 00:18:47,839 and hopefully find and scrutinize them, and hopefully find treatments 371 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,720 and actively prove that certain drugs work versus certain drugs 372 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:52,200 don't work. 373 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,799 Speaker 2: Now, are you getting any kind of weird feedback at all, 374 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,119 or you getting any any strange kind of comments that 375 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:00,839 might be a interesting. 376 00:19:00,839 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 5: You know, some people don't, you know. The most common 377 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,599 weird question is like, oh, like you, why are you 378 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,039 treating a fish? Why are you driving to this person's 379 00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:12,079 house to treat a beta? Is a very common question. 380 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,640 But you know, the human animal bond is a really 381 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,880 interesting thing. And you know, if someone bonds to a 382 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,440 fish the same way somebody else bonds to a dog, 383 00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:23,160 you know, it's not just because it's a cheaper animal 384 00:19:23,319 --> 00:19:26,279 or just because it's you know, not as what other 385 00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:29,079 people find is loving doesn't mean that those animals don't 386 00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:31,799 deserve the same treatment or respect that you know, dogs 387 00:19:31,839 --> 00:19:32,359 and cats do. 388 00:19:32,759 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's definitely true. I actually received a call 389 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,200 years ago from a woman who had been working with 390 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,799 her vet on her vet I spent a couple hundred bucks, 391 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,400 called me because she didn't think her vet was doing 392 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,880 the right thing. And I actually talked to the vet 393 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,160 and I told her, yeah, he's doing everything right, so 394 00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:52,599 it's fine. But yeah, you're right, that definitely strong bonds. 395 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,720 So I guess let's start with fish and talk. Do 396 00:19:55,759 --> 00:19:59,000 you have any kind of recent or favorite cases that 397 00:19:59,039 --> 00:19:59,960 you might want to share with its. 398 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,799 Speaker 5: Yeah, so, my I'm really again interested in this disease, 399 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,440 and I've been, you know, become increasingly more interested in scutiosio. 400 00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:15,839 Scutiociliotosis or uranema is the most common. So normally I've 401 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,119 seen mortality rates of nineteen eight ninety nine percent within 402 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,000 three days with you know species being infected with uranema. 403 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,720 I actually had a maroon clownfish who was infected. Normally 404 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,319 your ainema was seen and like superficially, but ironically she 405 00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:34,440 was in my one of my quarantine tanks and I 406 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,640 was just practicing taking fecal samples. 407 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 6: So I took her, took. 408 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 5: A sample of her FECs put it under the microscope, 409 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,200 and then found that she had a pretty prevalent internal 410 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:49,000 urinema infection that did spread. Finally, after hunting on the superficially, 411 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,200 I was able to find it on her outside as well, 412 00:20:51,519 --> 00:20:54,279 and normally, you know, mortality would be really high, but 413 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,960 I put her on intramuscular antiprotozols and instead of passing 414 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,319 away in three days, she did live six weeks. Unfortunately, 415 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,119 she passed. I had to another event that I had 416 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,599 to go to, and I left her with somebody else 417 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,480 who with very explicit instructions on how to care for her. Unfortunately, 418 00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:15,039 they didn't care for her the way that I told 419 00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:17,480 them to, and she did pass. But I thought it 420 00:21:17,519 --> 00:21:20,400 was a really nice proof of concept that we went 421 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,720 from you know, three day guaranteed mortality just six weeks 422 00:21:24,079 --> 00:21:27,000 and she was, you know, every day continually getting better. 423 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:30,240 So hopefully the next case that I have of it 424 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,200 was immediately she ulso rated. So that's like one of 425 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,759 the more common symptoms of your anema is a nice 426 00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:40,440 red banding across the skin and an ulceration and the 427 00:21:40,839 --> 00:21:42,519 you know, it was a day or two after her 428 00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:44,720 last injection when she was supposed to get it, but 429 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,599 the person who was caring for he didn't give it 430 00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:49,599 and she immediately almost alterrated. 431 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 2: Stuff. Okay, yeah, sorry to hear about that. So let's 432 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,880 talk a little bit about corals now in general. How 433 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,680 many coral problems do you think are really more or 434 00:21:58,759 --> 00:22:02,240 have a large route and husbandry, and what would be 435 00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:05,319 some common clinical science for these and and also kind 436 00:22:05,319 --> 00:22:07,640 of what type of approach do you have for these? 437 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,480 I know we talked a little bit about the sort 438 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,359 of infectious nature and obviously corals. There's so much going 439 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,119 on that you know, I'm guessing is probably environmental. But 440 00:22:16,279 --> 00:22:17,960 what are your kind of thoughts on all that. 441 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 5: You know, I I would have said ninety percent plus 442 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,160 of corals that die would have died from country reasons, 443 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:28,920 but now I would say it's I would say it's 444 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,480 considerably less. I feel that the husband try is relatively 445 00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:37,000 you know, for experienced people, is relatively good, and that 446 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,839 I think infectious disease plays a larger role than I 447 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,319 ever did think before a lot of people when they have, 448 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,640 you know, a quarrel that is slowly wasting away. So 449 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,640 like commonly, if your water parameters aren't good, right, corals 450 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,799 die relatively quickly, you know, days to weeks. When you 451 00:22:55,799 --> 00:22:59,319 have corals that are slowly wasting away over time. And 452 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,960 if it's very specific, if there's certain corals that are 453 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,720 wasting away and other ones aren't, you go, Okay, the 454 00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:07,559 water parameter and the lights and everything are most likely 455 00:23:07,599 --> 00:23:10,960 all right, So then why are these specific colonies dying? 456 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,839 And as I you know, look at those colonies and 457 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,000 scrutinize them, you know, going through each individual poll up, 458 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,559 I'm finding more and more different types of infectio disease, 459 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,079 like flatworms and different mites that we haven't necessarily seen before. 460 00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:28,960 And a lot of people get, you know, really offended 461 00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:33,240 if you suggest that their tank may have acropora eating flatworms, 462 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,519 because those are you know, considered, you know, a big 463 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:38,960 no no in the hobby, and it's people getting salted 464 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,799 by that. So people don't necessarily like to look for 465 00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:44,279 these things. And when they do look, they'll look standing 466 00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:46,559 in front of their tank. You know, a colony will 467 00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:48,920 be eight inches away from their face. You know, the 468 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,400 tank's really dark, you know, or it's you know, with 469 00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:53,559 a lot of blue lights. You really can't see the 470 00:23:53,559 --> 00:23:56,279 coral besides, like that really bright colors, so you can't 471 00:23:56,279 --> 00:23:58,839 really see the tissue underneath. And they go, oh, there's 472 00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:02,279 no parasites here, and you're like, you know, you have 473 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,359 to take that colony out of the water, and I 474 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,640 use a triocular scope and you know, scan every inch 475 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,400 of that colony. I've had been that clients that had 476 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,279 euphilia or or a type of LPs, and they were 477 00:24:16,319 --> 00:24:20,039 slowly wasting away, and they were wasting away in a 478 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,920 very particular pattern that I've noticed and you have. It's 479 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,720 almost like a wave like where it'll start on one 480 00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:28,640 side of the colony and slowly progress through the colony. 481 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,279 You know, the classic you know, white band disease. It's 482 00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:35,279 not white band disease, but it progresses in the same way. 483 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,200 And if it was any external factors or you know, 484 00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:42,079 lighting chemistry, you would have, you know, the colony would 485 00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:44,680 be dying from all sides equally instead of you know, 486 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,680 having these progressional fronts. So this one particular colony, I 487 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,599 was convinced that there was you know, some sort of ecdoparasitism. 488 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,200 Couldn't find it originally, but about two hours after sampling it, 489 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,359 I started to find more and more of these flatworms. 490 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,440 And then as we look through the other colonies started 491 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,039 to find more of them. And I think a lot 492 00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:07,400 of people neglect looking for these flatworms, you know, so 493 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,880 the colony, the colony will slowly die, and then once 494 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,720 the colony dies, they'll pull it out of the tank, 495 00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:15,200 but by then there are no more flatworms. So then 496 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,640 they just attribute the death to like a bacterial infectionately 497 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,920 attribute the death to like husbandry related things, even though 498 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:25,599 the initial cause of death were these types of flatworms. 499 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and I know 500 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,519 some of these can be really pretty small. So segueing 501 00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:32,599 into the next question, so what would be the most 502 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,599 common parasitic diseases that you're seeing in corals in general? 503 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 5: So different types of flatworms is probably the most prevalent. 504 00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:44,960 And for every species of coral that exists, there's some 505 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,240 sort of species specific flatworm that I've seen. And unfortunately, 506 00:25:49,319 --> 00:25:50,799 some of them can only be you know, one to 507 00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:55,160 two millimeters in size, so without you know, proper magnification, 508 00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:57,599 you wouldn't necessarily see them. A lot of them can 509 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,720 be transparent translucent, so they're just showing up the same 510 00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:04,400 color as the coral's tissue. So seeing these organisms is 511 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,200 really difficult. And something that I've been doing that I've 512 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,200 found identify these is I'll take a sample of the coral, 513 00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:14,440 put it under a triocular scope. I use my phone 514 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,599 camera and hook that up to the scope, and then 515 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,640 I time laps so I can see small movements over 516 00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:22,279 you know, a large so you know, I'll let it 517 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,240 run for an hour and then I'll be able to 518 00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:26,319 see organism moving. Because if you just look at it 519 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,720 and look by your naked eye, you necessarily wouldn't see 520 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,079 these organisms even moving because they move so slowly. But 521 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,799 by time lapsing, I'm able to see, you know, the 522 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,000 organisms traveling around the coral. So that makes it a 523 00:26:38,039 --> 00:26:39,359 lot easier to identify. 524 00:26:39,839 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: Cool. Yeah, very very cool. Yeah, I don't think a 525 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,759 lot of people probably have thought of that. Now. You 526 00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:50,319 mentioned general challenges with coral medicine, and yeah, definitely quite 527 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,240 a few. So where do you think kind of clinical 528 00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:57,160 research needs to go and what do you you mentioned 529 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,880 a little bit about that, what would you be interested 530 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,599 in trying to do on that front? 531 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,839 Speaker 5: I think it needs to go more into like a 532 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,039 practicality realm rather than theoretical And I think a lot 533 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:10,920 of core research that has been done has all been oceanlated, 534 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,559 and the diseases in the ocean are very different than 535 00:27:14,599 --> 00:27:18,039 diseases in home tank aquaria. In the ocean, you have 536 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,440 basically it's an unlimited supply of water. Everything is scaled massively, 537 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,839 so you don't get these really high concentrations of parasites 538 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,799 the same way that we do in a tank. You know, 539 00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:30,400 you have a forty gallon tank. The speed at which 540 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,960 these diseases perpetuate in these enclosed systems is far greater 541 00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:37,240 than when it is in the ocean. So I think, 542 00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:40,920 in like actual tank treatments are a different avenue than 543 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,400 looking at these diseases in the ocean. You know, Acropora 544 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,359 eating flatworms in the ocean aren't necessarily as big of 545 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,160 a deal as they are within a you know, a 546 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,279 home tank full of only acropora. The speed at which 547 00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:55,039 these parasites can replicate is a lot higher. So I 548 00:27:55,039 --> 00:27:58,599 think that treatment needs to be designed for at home 549 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,599 rather than just looking at the these diseases and parasites 550 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:02,880 in the wild. 551 00:28:03,079 --> 00:28:05,279 Speaker 2: So, with regard to these flatworms, what's kind of your 552 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,319 standard recommendation for quarantine and management or treatment if they're there? 553 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,799 Speaker 5: So, I guess the bane of all reefers exists. To 554 00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:19,559 the report eating flatworms, I've seen four different subtypes. Personally, 555 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,240 I'm sure there's a lot out there. It's unfortunately there's 556 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,240 no advisable in tank treatment at this time, and that's 557 00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:29,960 something that I've personally started to look into and experimenting 558 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,640 with at home. But these organisms is you know, you 559 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,839 buy a frag or you buy a small piece from 560 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,480 you know, a retailer, wholesale or friend wherever that may be, 561 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,359 and it's really important to you know, look under a 562 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,880 magnifying glass and really examine that coral for any possibility 563 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,920 of eggs or any of the larger and with flatworms, again, 564 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,960 some of them can be only a few millimeters in size. 565 00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:56,480 So once you know, set up a small quarantine system 566 00:28:56,519 --> 00:29:00,319 away from your tank, ideally off the water supply, know how, 567 00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:03,440 that has its own system, But a lot of people 568 00:29:03,519 --> 00:29:08,039 can't do that, so, you know, inline quarantine systems may 569 00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:10,559 be more of a possibility for some people. Granted that's 570 00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:13,000 not a full quarantine, but it at least allows you 571 00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:16,640 to examine that coral daily, maybe even you know, twice daily. 572 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,680 I really like to look at night because that's when 573 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,160 a lot of these parasites come out once when the light, 574 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,240 when the lights go dim, you know, they'll start to 575 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,680 crawl around the coral, so you can really examine it. 576 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,200 I really don't think that, you know, you should buy 577 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,960 a coral and then immediately place it into your tank, 578 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,759 because that's how disasters happen a lot of times. With 579 00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:35,440 these flatworms, you can use like a toothbrush or something 580 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,200 to manually remove the eggs. There are some over the 581 00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:43,079 counter dips that they don't necessarily eradicate the worms, but 582 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,160 they will irritate them. And if you you know, the 583 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,000 coral a bath and shake it around in these dips, 584 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,960 it'll knock some of them off, or it'll least allow 585 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,680 you to identify that they're there. And I think knowing 586 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,160 that they're there is half the problem, because a lot 587 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,680 of times, you know, if you have corals or colonies dying, 588 00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:01,200 if you know what the problem, you're not running down 589 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,440 another avenue experimenting thinking that it's a chemical problem, and 590 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,799 then you start experimenting with the chemistry and then you 591 00:30:06,839 --> 00:30:08,839 could end up, you know, killing more coral and more 592 00:30:08,839 --> 00:30:12,839 of an issue. So I think really properly examining new 593 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,000 coral is the most important thing. 594 00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: Okay, sounds good. So where do you see yourself in 595 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,920 the next five and ten years? 596 00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 6: That's a good question. 597 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,559 Speaker 5: In the next five I'd really love to have the 598 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,720 you know, my aquatics hospital up and running with surgery 599 00:30:29,759 --> 00:30:33,680 and like in house you know, bacterial culture diagnostics. Ten years, 600 00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:36,680 I feel like that's really far out to know exactly 601 00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:39,079 what that would be doing. I'm definitely going to be 602 00:30:39,079 --> 00:30:42,799 within this hobby or within this field of medicine. I 603 00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:45,960 don't know exactly where that'll take me, you know, Will 604 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,960 I be more interested in the coral disease? Will I 605 00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:50,920 be more interested in the fish disease. Originally I was 606 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,279 more interested in coral disease, but then as I've gotten 607 00:30:54,279 --> 00:30:56,400 more involved in the medicine, now I do more of 608 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,480 the fish disease as well. So I think it's going 609 00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:00,079 to be a balance between the two. 610 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,359 Speaker 2: Or quarrel reforganism. Health is a career. 611 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,759 Speaker 5: I mean, I'm a really big fan of the veterinary 612 00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:08,640 school route. Some other people who go like the marine 613 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,759 bio route, and they don't necessarily you know, they understand antibiotics, 614 00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:13,519 but they don't necessarily understand. 615 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,799 Speaker 6: When and why and how we use them. 616 00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:19,119 Speaker 5: So I think having a medical knowledge really good at 617 00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:22,160 dealing with these problems. I don't think that the medical 618 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,839 knowledge allows you to identify what the problems are. I 619 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,920 think that comes from experience over time. So I think 620 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,599 it's the experience over time that allows you to identify 621 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,119 the problem, But it's the medical knowledge that allows you 622 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,160 to come up with solutions and able to you know, 623 00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:41,039 accurately attack these problems and hopefully find a cure. 624 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 2: And before we close up and I ask you the 625 00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:46,039 final final question, you have to give us a couple 626 00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:49,680 a minute or two on judo. So tell me about 627 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,359 your kind of experience with judo. I see you were 628 00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:55,720 like nationally internationally ranked and all that, so yeah, tell 629 00:31:55,759 --> 00:31:57,440 me a little bit about your judo experiences. 630 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, so that was I started when I was six 631 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,839 or seven. Originally I had an Olympic dream. My dream 632 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,480 was actually to compete in twenty twenty four. But unfortunately, 633 00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:10,640 when I was nineteen, I had a pretty substantial injury 634 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,480 that was career ending. So then at that time, so 635 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,480 I broke my back, had compressions fractures up through my 636 00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:21,920 thoracic spine, and that's when I really shifted from sports 637 00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:26,160 to more of an academic mindset. So I was before then, 638 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,640 I put all my time and effort into training, and 639 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,359 that was you know, a seven day a week thing. 640 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: You know. 641 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,079 Speaker 5: Once that injury happened, I you know, found something else 642 00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:36,839 to fill that time. So I really went from you know, 643 00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:40,640 really sports heavy to really academic heavy. And you know, 644 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,640 I started you know, training for veterinary medicine and training 645 00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:46,039 you know, my my brain rather than my body. 646 00:32:46,319 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's always a challenge. But things happened for a reason, right, So. 647 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,119 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, happier with where I'm at now versus then. 648 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:55,759 Speaker 6: So all things worked out. 649 00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: But could you still hurt somebody though if you really 650 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,319 wanted to, you would want to I know, of course 651 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,279 I appreciate that. And yeah, definitely definitely enjoyed speaking with you, Alex. 652 00:33:08,279 --> 00:33:10,400 Hopefully you'll come down visit at some point if you ever, 653 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,599 absolutely you know, come down, and yeah, I'd love to 654 00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:16,160 talk with you a little more, show you around. So 655 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:21,039 unfortunately we are out of time. I want to again 656 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,000 thank our guests, doctor Alex Hall, and our producer Mark 657 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,480 Winner for making the show possible and Alex, So the 658 00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:30,400 last question is do you have any just final words 659 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,279 of wisdom in general for our listeners, any topic. 660 00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:37,799 Speaker 5: Yeah, so, with coral or even fish, always really really 661 00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:40,799 examine what you're looking at when you're buying. And even 662 00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:43,200 if the fish you're buying looks clean, you know, if 663 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,200 you're in a store, look around the other tanks that 664 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,279 are nearby. Look into other tanks that are you know, 665 00:33:47,319 --> 00:33:49,920 pumped into the same system. Do they have diseases in 666 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,400 those tanks? Because if they're in those tanks, it's probably, 667 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,960 you know, highly possible that the fish that you're buying 668 00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:57,279 is exposed. So don't only look at the fish or 669 00:33:57,319 --> 00:34:00,400 coral that you're buying. Try to take a look at everything. 670 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 2: That's great advice well. Please be sure to check out 671 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,880 Alex's social media links, which will be found on his 672 00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:09,239 Crimini episode page. If you have any questions, comments, or 673 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,880 ideas for a show, email me at doctor Roy at 674 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,719 petlife radio dot com dot d R R O y 675 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,800 at petlife radio dot com. Until next time, please visit 676 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,840 your local France stores, keep your tanks clean and your 677 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,159 coral reach systems healthy. 678 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 4: Let's Talk Pets every week on demand only on petlife 679 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:42,679 radio dot com