Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dana Valley, coming
at you as always with my super duper certified fantabulous
co host, mister Grant Hughes. The NBA regular season is back,
and so are we, even though we never left. We're
gonna talk about X factors this year. There's just been
so few games played and we'll have you know, there'll
be a different cadence to our episodes this year. We
want to try and have these unifying themes and talk
about as many teams and players as possible. It feels
like a good time to like we could still make
predictions if we wanted to. Just anything you've seen. I
don't know how much you take away from it, but
very quickly, we are going to do our over reactions
in about a week or so, and we will be
taking submissions. If you're a member of our discord, so
click the link in the podcast YouTube description. Joined our discord.
You could have entered the over under competition that had
a chance to host an episode, but you missed it.
You didn't miss this though, so come join the Discord.
I will send it out a link eventually for submissions
for those overreactions and we would like to know in
the comments, who are your biggest X factors this season,
and we'll get into how we define X factors. But
I'm curious how our commenters, if you had to pick
a player or a few players and why let us
know in the comments. Will be interested to read those.
But before we really get off and running, Grant, how
the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm holding strong, like like my Warriors are against the
greedy and delusional representation of Jonathan Kaminga who wants way
too much money and no like uh just you know,
I the Jonathan Kminga thing. He was my least favorite
player in the entire world in the first half of
the Warriors opener against Portland, so I was like, just
get rid of them. That's how That's how rational I
am moments a moment as a fan. By this time
next week, I will probably be ready to put them
in the Hall of Fame, just depending on how things go.
Speaker 1: So I'm doing great.
Speaker 2: It's super consistent, right, I'm doing awesome.
Speaker 1: Your inconsistency with regard to Jonathan Kaminga is very consistent.
Although I feel like you've been pretty bullish on.
Speaker 2: Him, I haven't been. I don't feel like my vacillating
though with respect specifically to him and Warriors players, is
relatable because it reveals they're still a fan in me somewhere.
Speaker 1: Which is good unless you're, you know, covering all thirty teams,
in which case we can't be fans. I'm not a
fan of any single team except for the Thunder. I
get accused of being the Nuggets in the Thunder, which
are the teams that I'm not actually a fan of.
I think they're great teams, I love watching them, but
those are the teams I get accused most of being
a homer for.
Speaker 2: Sorry, you like good teams?
Speaker 1: Well, are the Nuggets a good team?
Speaker 2: Well? Not against the Thunder.
Speaker 1: Let's talk how did you approach this before we get
into our X factors.
Speaker 2: So it's it's basically like the first rule is for me,
it can't be you can't just pick the best player
on each team because like obviously that player matters more
to like the fate of his team than anybody else,
Like we work big to small around here, Like that's
that's the obvious caveat. I just look at it as
someone who I think can have like a big impact.
But the likelihood, the chances of him making that impact
are relatively uncertain. So it's like a big swing like
you could use you could interchange the term like swing piece,
like if this guy does X, then this team can
be this. If he does why then we go the
other way and this might be a real issue, like
so like an important piece that I'm not certain how
he's gonna perform and it will be consequential, like whether
he performs well in whatever his role is or not.
Is are you roughly kind of that's your approach as well?
Speaker 1: Yes, And I tried not to if there's like a
deeper cut, I'm not trying to be oh, look at me,
I know who this person is. Uh, I just I
had it. I wanted to say, it can't be an
established star, like I can't if it's an up and comer.
If you really want to pick Jaleen Williams, and I'm
gonna stick with the teams that I like. If you
want to pick Jaylen Williams in Oklahoma City, fine, but
like to me, this isn't about being all like the
Knicks are more aligned on Jalen Brunson. It's gotta be
like they're gonna go as far as he can. Yeah,
I don't view an X factor as that, And so
I set out by saying, you're not gonna choose any
of these entrenched stars, and you're going to look at
either question marks or just players who I view as
sort of these swing pieces where maybe their role right
now doesn't seem like it's going to be too large,
but like if it becomes bigger, it has the opportunity
to get bigger. They can change a whole lot for
their team. And in some cases it did vary by situation,
but I also looked at what players could have an
outsized influence on how their team is going to fair
this season relative to how we're talking about them, maybe
right now or over the offseason.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of times too, because we
do over index a little bit on younger players. Maybe
that's more me.
Speaker 1: But like, no, I think I'm there with you.
Speaker 2: You got something. Yeah, So it's like we're talking about
this season, but in a lot of cases, you know
there will be like an X factor can't affect a
franchise is like five year trajectory, and some you know
what I mean, like it you can sort of extend
out the like the area, or like the portion of
a franchise's future that this guy can have a big,
like you said, outsize impact on. So like those are
kind of the ideal ones where it's like, yeah, it
matters this year, but it also like informs how good
this team or like what this team is gonna need,
or just like bigger picture stuff. I think that's that's
when you really have the X factor nailed down. I
think with that.
Speaker 1: Being said, we're gonna throw them up on the screen
and we'll Grant did the Western Conference, I did the East,
and we'll obviously go back and forth and see if
there's any disagreements, which anyone who listen to this podcast
knows we never agree on anything. So I'm interested to
see who Grant chose, even though I already know who
he chose. Let's let's we're gonna go alphabetically again. We've
been killing it, so we're gonna we're gonna stick with
that model. We begin with the Atlanta Hawks, because rumor
has it they're first in the alphabet. Grant I chose
for this team Trey Young, nonstar. I'm just kidding. I
chose Dyson Daniels I. Grant I went back and forth
on this one. I really felt about vit crazy because
he was playing a lot of backup point guard in
Game one. I'd really try not to let what I
saw over the first couple of days of the season
and influenced me too much. I look at Dyson Daniels, though,
and they didn't have him on the ball as much
as I expected in the Game one. But I look
at how little relative to what I was expecting that
Zachary Resiche played and he came off the bench, And
if that's even the medium term plan. I look at
Dyson Daniels just from the perspective of, well, if you're
looking for a swing piece who might play a bunch
of minutes, I assume he's gonna handle the ball even more.
He'll probably get some backup point guard reps moving forward
to additional ones of them. That's they had him do
that in New Orleans. He becomes like kind of monstrous
to this team, where it's they clearly valued him in
that the Jonte Murray trade, and it's not about okay,
how does the jumper come along, but it's also what
type of spacing do they have around him? How does
he work off of Trey Young, does the floater continue
to fall? And then there's if you're looking for the
best defender on this team, it has to be him, right,
I'm not like, am I under selling anyone else on
rim protection? Sure it still clin Capella, But am I like,
am I overlooking anyone?
Speaker 2: No? I think that's I think that's him, and that's
that is why he's a good X factor. I would
add too, like, you know, given his draft pedigree and
like what you could envision his longer term future being
like there's a scenario where he's an X factor without
Trey Young, Like obviously the fit with him is like
you got this ace defender now the secondary ball handler.
It wasn't even clear. I think we talked about this,
like I think I now it wasn't clear to me
that that he was going to start. Daniels was over Boogdanovic.
I think that was like the preseason didn't add a
lot of clarity to that. The fact that he is,
I think is just another like point in favor of
him being someone that can have a huge impact with
or without Young. And then like like just imagine a
future where it's like he's on the ball all the
time because realistically, like he's not a great off ball
player because of the shooting limitations, Like he could just
be the guy that is doing the most in the
majority of the playmaking for this team and defending the
other team's best wing, you know, in over the next
whatever five eight years, assuming they resigned him. So like, yeah, good,
good X factor pick there for.
Speaker 1: Sure, we move on to would there been any other
candidates for you really quickly?
Speaker 2: I mean I would I would give some thought to
Anyaka kong Wu just because like he's I mean, this
was before he had a career high twenty eight in
the opener. But just like Coppell is expiring, kong Wu
hasn't really announced himself as a like starting caliber five
yet despite you know, the high draft pick, and he's
already on his second contract, so his ability or inability
to occupy that role I think would go because because
if he can't be your center and Kapell is probably
not going to be your long term center, well now
you're just like, well what are we doing? Larry Anson
even play in the open So it's.
Speaker 1: Like that was bizarre, by the way, because I would
have considered him, and it was kind of like that
made me waffle a bit, right, So our next team,
going alphabetically, mister Grant Hughes is the Boston Celtics. This
is this was a team that was unnecessarily difficult just
because they have So you can't pick. I know how
Horford's older, and there's the Christops Porzingis injury, so you
could infery view it as him. But I'm watching him
just destroy the Knicks on Opening night, and I'm just
watching Al Horford even against the Al Horford is never
going to retire, right, Like that's just where we're at.
So anyone in the starting lineup plus Christops porzingis and
I didn't. I don't know about you. I didn't go
the route of oh Joel Embiid's d spoiler alert like
I didn't. That's not something I did. I went with
someone who's gonna help them navigate these minutes, Xavier Tillman
without porzingis, And I think Luke Cornett has a case
for sure. If you want to go with Sam Hauser, Okay, fine,
I think if you're trying to replicate what Boston has
without Christops Porzingis to a t, he comes the closest
just with the malleability on the defensive end, and they've
empowered him to shoot from distance. I'm not saying he's
Christop's light, but if you're trying to get or or
mirror that experience or get a fac simile of it
and maintain your five out spacing, at this point, I
view him as kind of more impactful there, or the
more likely canadate to actualize that than a Lou Cornette.
And this might be very matchup dependent. We saw some
more of name as Cata against the Wizards in Game two,
but that was the perspective I approached this from. With Boston.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well, so for me, if you're talking
about like league wide, full season like impact, the championship
X factors, Porzingis is one of like the half dozen
biggest ones in the league. But just you can't really Again,
we're not picking like major players here generally. I almost
like I can understand the struggle. Picking anything for Boston
is like hard. If you're trying to come up with trades,
it's impossible. If you're trying to come up with you know,
just a bunch of like they're always so difficult because
they're so known. You know, the top six, you know,
the issues, you know, And but so for me, like
you could have said Cada, Tillman or Cornett or maybe
just all three are the Celtics X factor because it's
like which one are they gonna need on a given night,
and who's gonna give them the spacing and or the
defense that Porzingis could like who approximates that the most,
and like Tilman can do a little bit of both
and Cornett Actually, do you remember by the way, that
Cornett came into the league as like a spacing big
because first few years of yeah, of course you do,
because he's on with the Knicks, but like he was
a guy that was like he took more than half
his shots from three for like the first four years
of his career, So like, oh, maybe he's gonna be
the spacing and shot blocking Porzingis stand in, Yeah, Tilman's
a good one. But I acknowledge, like you could just
pick any of those three centers, not including Horford, and
just that would be a viable.
Speaker 1: Way to go. This next team was, I guess even
harder in the sense of I didn't like what constitutes
an X factor for the Brooklyn Nets, Like I don't
I don't really know. I don't know what the option
is there. I ultimately went with Jalen Wilson. I think
that and I talked about this was lucas kaplan on
theirs and look ahead. He looks a lot more comfortable
on the ball than I was expecting, And so if
you're looking for kind of and like even defensively like
trying to hold up has good positional just size and
instincts there, it feels like, but really offensively, there are
more layers to his game than I thought, and I
probably even going beyond that, it does feel like the
Nets are prepared to explore those layers even more than
I thought, Which maybe that's a mistake on my end
for not assuming that they would really plumb the depths
of his game right out of the game because they're
not trying to win this season and they have a
dearth of just creators. But you look on the ball,
off the ball like he's just doing a lot. He
played more minutes to open and I thought he was
going to. And I think if you're trying to look
at oh, they found someone this year like before they're
getting these high draft picks. I don't know why I'm
quoting Hydra it's going to be a high draft pick.
That's what they're trying to do here. So before they
start bringing in these higher end prospects, if you're looking
for them to oh they found someone during this period,
it's not just Cam Thomas. It's not about Nicholas, it's oh,
they found a dude. Not the dude, but they found
a dude. And Jalen Wilson. I'd give some consideration to
Trent and Watford for sure, And I mean likeke On Johnson,
like having him on the ball more. That's that's been interesting.
But I think Jalen Wilson is the most likely guy
to become Oh they found a dude candidating for the
men's Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean he's definitely one of those guys where like
if you're a if you're not a Nets fan and
you have, for whatever reason, you happen to catch a
Nets game on TV and you just see Wilson out there,
like who is that? I don't know who that is?
And like that's the definition of like they might have
found somebody is He's definitely not, you know, in a
national sense like well known at all. I would just
throw we don't need to do this on every team,
but like Noah Clowney is someone that is just like
what if what if Noah Clowney becomes you know, the
floor spacing super athletic shop blocking four or five guy.
Like you may not get any sense of that this
year because the stakes are going to be so low,
but like, if he shows enough, then maybe you start
thinking of him as like the closest thing to a
cornerstone piece they have, Like.
Speaker 1: Are the Nets just a team of X factors?
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. And but but you raised the
point too. It's like, so an X factor is supposed
to have like a big swing effects, Like okay, so
that's the difference between like twelve wins and nineteen like that,
Like okay, Like I don't Well.
Speaker 1: What's interesting is too, is that you could also pick
is Cam Johnson. The X factor is a Cam Thomas.
It really because they when they win too much out
of the gate, they need to start making Oh it's like, no,
he's too good, He's gonna go is that.
Speaker 2: X factor kind of? I mean, they're they're very much
upside down.
Speaker 1: Our next team is the Charlotte Hornets. And this is
what I actually struggled with because I thought there were
a bunch of options. I gave consideration to Tjan Salon.
I gave consideration to Trey Man. I came very close
to picking him. I ultimately went with the one, the only,
mister Grant Williams. Dallas Mavericks fans will be thrilled. They're
just Mark Williams is injured all the time and it
seems like they're gonna have to use Grant Williams to
defend centers more than they would like. He's he held
up fairly well in Charles's first game of the season
from what I saw of it. And if he's gonna
do that while providing you with the floor spacing element
in the front court, especially if it feels like you're
gonna get maybe Wax and Waney performances from some of
your other front court players, whether it's Nick Richards, Mark
Williams with the dice, the availability even a Miles Bridges
in that regard, This is someone who can not that
he's the most likely candidate to provide the dimension of consistency,
but he can open the floor for you in the
half court. He will get up and down the floor
as well, and if if he gets to a point
where oh, like we're comfortable with him just defending fives
and we'll figure out the maybe the roving rim protection
element like by committee around him, or we'll just deal
with the consequences of it. You could run some pretty
just electric lineups around and especially because the version of
LaMelo ball, which is also why I considered this for
Grant Williams, who's putting pressure on the rim like as
much base as you could just get for him to
do that, Grant Williams is going to be the big
on this team that will have the biggest impact there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good one. I I think
it's telling like he's an X factor in the sense
that like he might just be the key to Charlotte
being the best version of itself. And you're talking all
the things you're talking about like opening the floor up.
I mean, like against the Rockets in their opener, Alpern
Shangun was just putting everyone in the basket and then
Grant Williams was on him and he's just like you
can't move Grant Williams, Like he's just he's too big
and he's too strong, and he's too low compared to like,
you know, normal sized centers. So if you can get away,
like I think, you run into trouble if you get
him switched out into space and he's got to hang
around with smaller guards. But like if he can be
and you got to get some rebounding I think from
other positions, But if he can be the guy that
just holds up against Biggs and you know, if that's
getting posted up or whatever, keeping them off the glass,
like that does just allow their offense, Charlotte's offense to
be like really dynamic and really spaced out, and just
like all of it's because I note the other guy,
I'm just gonna step on it. You talked about Trey
Mann as like an alternative maybe, like maybe that's the
key to like Grant Williams and a super small lineup.
You can get Man and Ball and Brandon Miller out
there together and it's just like when shooting and playmaking
and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: And it also seems like the Man and LaMelo I
think played like fifteen minutes or something together in the
first game of the season, so they're gonna go to
that look a lot. But that's why it was just
tough to pick Trey Man when LaMelo and Brand and
Miller are on this team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but those guys are they're too good right or
too established?
Speaker 1: My point is just those are going to be more
of like how much influence is Trey Man ultimately gonna
have over this offense? So he was a candidate, He
was the runner up for me, with Salon coming in third.
I think his role is gonna end up being bigger
sooner rather than later. But stuck with Grant Williams still
me as we navigate the Eastern Conference, we're onto your
Chicago Bulls, your favorite team. Who would you have picked
for this team? Do you know who I picked one?
And who would you have picked?
Speaker 2: I do know who you picked, and it's a good one.
I'm trying to think, just like off the top of
my head, I mean, you can't go could it?
Speaker 1: Could it?
Speaker 2: Could it just be Patrick Williams because of the investment
they made in him, and because like, Okay, now you
actually have to do something and like not disappear for
you know, weeks at a time when you're actually playing,
like I just he when you've paid that much to
a guy on a second contract and he's really proved
nothing like that's a swing piece, like either he's gonna
validate that contract or not. And then like the worst
thing you could be as a rebuilder is like looking
to offload money you just gave somebody, So like that,
I would have thought about him, But I like your
pick too.
Speaker 1: Well, Yeah, Patrick, player option Patrick Williams.
Speaker 2: We should we have to call him that from now,
player option Pat.
Speaker 1: I went with Jalen Smith just because they don't want
this team does not have a lot of big man
depth right now. If you want to open the floor
around all your guards, he is the guy that is
just going to do it. Even like you trust who's
jumper do you trust more right now, Nicole Levucevich or
Jalen Smith.
Speaker 2: I'll give me Jalen Smith.
Speaker 1: So I think that's kind of a big deal there,
And like just defensively, I think he's gonna give you
more relative to the other options. I don't think Jalen
Smith is some world beater. I want to make that clear.
But if you're kind of looking to move players around
on the perimeter that like he can, he's gonna hold
up there better than Booch. That's just not even up
for debate. And also he's kind of an X factor
in the sense of when you look at this team,
I don't mean to say that they're built to play small,
but like you look at their four options, and if
Patrick Williams is not playing, well, it's right, like that's it,
Like he's you. Some will argue like, well, he's kind
of a three himself. You're gonna be playing a lot
of guards just because Lonzo is healthy, which is amazing,
is that where he's healthier Zach Lavine, Josh Giddy, Kobe White,
Io Dessunmu and already looks like Javon Carter's out of
the rotation, which we expected. But like you're gonna be
playing a bunch of lineups where effectively, if Zack Lavine
or Lonzo Ball is your three, like you're playing with
three guards. Yeah at that point then, and so you
just want a big who's going to space the floor
around them. Doesn't necessarily like, Okay, what bouj can do
is fun, but like when you have these other three
guards on the court, so that coupled with he maybe
their defense won't be complete, but on the interior when
he's playing. That was why it was my X factor
for me, and it was it wasn't I don't know
if it was a signing. We celebrated, We didn't hate it.
We were just kind of like, you really hardcap yourself
for Jalen Smith, but low and behold, he's a he's
a pretty big deal to this team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1: Our next team because it's still me what a run here.
Don't worry, Rant will have his run as well. We're
onto the Cleveland Cavaliers. This one was actually it was
pretty easy. I'm not even gonna like do a preamble here.
I ended up going with Dean Wade just with the
Max Truce injury. This is the guy like who comes
close like not first of all, this is the guy
who comes closest to typifying the three and d wing
for them on the roster. It's not Isaaca Corro. It's
not even Max Drews. Though he'll try defensively like he
has a little bit of shake to him on the ball.
I think he's a lot better defensively when he's healthy
than people realize. We're talking. We're not talking about just
guarding like threes and fours. He will guard ones and two.
So his mobility there is key. The question is can
he one be healthy and be consistent enough like on
offense where oh he's gonna take those threes or he's
gonna attack those closeouts, to where are you trust playing
him heavy minutes? You want you almost want to get
into a situation where it's, oh, do we close games
with Dean Wade or Max Shruce. That's what you want
to get to when you're at full strength. But in
the meantime, while Max Shreuce is out for a really
long time. By the way, they said he was gonna
be reevaluated in six weeks, right, that's a long time.
So I just to me, he not that he's the
only answer, but he felt like a pretty clear cut answer.
Speaker 2: I think he's His X factor status is made even
better by the fact that, like, how long ago are
we talking because it's definitely pre Struce and it's probably
pre like Carris Lavert a Koro would have been there,
but like when when the conversation was like who do
we put in between the Garland Mitchell backcourt and the
Mobile Alan frontcourt? All the numbers This is probably now
three seasons ago where it was like, oh, it's Dean Wade,
like all of all of the lineup numbers was like
when that guy's in there at the three with those
other four, its like that was just the best version
of the Cavis And it was four of the reasons
you mentioned, like when he was able to be on
the floor, and that is the biggest X factor part
of him is like just can you figure out how
to play up close to a full season so far? No,
he was just the guy like he gave them everything
that you wanted, like basically like dependent score but like
that not in a pejorative sense, but he's gonna make three,
he's gonna move the ball quickly, gonna defend like that's
what you want. And has size like the Corps is
just kind of like too small to be matched up
against like opposing like big wings and combo forwards. Wade
has the size to do all that. Like I forgot
like thinking about, okay, what are they gonna do with
Struce hours, Like okay, I guess a Kor is gonna
start because you just want Lavert being a ball handler
off the bench, Like I straight up forgot Dean, and
Dean Wade starts the opener, so I was like, oh
my god, yeah, the guy that we all you know,
I don't know I'm projecting, but like that we were
all clamoring for to like be the be the fifth
guy in twenty twenty two or whatever.
Speaker 1: And you made a point that made me think of
another point is because he has that size when you're
talking about the staggered big lineups. Yeah, we saw something
like Max Struce is like the four stuff last year.
I'm trying to figure out how to get Larry Dans
Junior back on this team forever, because like he would
be perfect for those lineups. Dean Wade, I think when
you're looking, when you're looking for the perfect or ideal
solution to that player in the stagger let's call them
the one center units whatever you want to call him,
the Mobile by himself or Alan by himself. Is he
He's the closest approximation to perfection that they have on
the roster right for that role.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, It's like if you were if you had
you know, a lab to do this in, you would
want like twenty seventeen Marcus Morris or something is something
like that in that spot. And Dean Wade's like, not
that far off. I guess like that that similar size,
like you know, can shoot a shoot all that stuff.
So yeah, that's a good one. All right, It's just
take your current take a break.
Speaker 1: Of it over here. I'm not going anyway. If this
episode is out of whack, I apologize to our listeners.
I'm deteriorating in real time. I thought I was getting sick.
I'm one hundred percent sure now that I'm getting sick.
Speaker 2: You're watching it happen, you're getting sick. Well take a
break that. When you get the East, you got to
just run off like six, yes, six teams in a row.
So the next team up is the Dallas Mavericks. The
X factor to me, there are a lot of good
ways to go here, and we're this is probably this
is definitely the most established player that I think either
of us has. My ex factors play Thompson and it's
just I'm not gonna, you know, belabor the suspense, and
it's fairly straightforward. I think his ability to like Nico Harrison,
I think I forget, sorry, I forget who I think
it was. Zach Harper mentioned of the Athletic that he
talked to Nico Harrison over the summer and Nico Harrison thought,
like we're a clay away. Is the quote you know,
from being a like a real title threat or getting
over the hump, and so that that's kind of true
and kind of not like you are on certain nights
you're a clay away and on certain nights like Clay
is in the way. So like I think if he
can give Dallas more nights that look like the opener
where quick catch and shoot threes, not a lot of dribbling,
active defensively, certainly put on matchups that he can handle
and not ask to do too much. Like yeah, that's
that's a piece right there that like makes a difference
all the stuff we've talked about since he signed. There
just an outlet in the corner that's not like you're
you know, PJ. Washington and Derek Jones junior last year,
It's like defenses are happy if that shot is being
taken by those guys. It's a it's an emergency if
Klay Thompson is getting that like shot diet in a
playoff series. So you got the upside there. The downside
is like the injuries are what they've been. He had
brutal stretches last year, forcing shots like in a total
inability to guard anything like that's gonna happen like those
nights will appear this year, and the expectation, given his
age is that there might be more of them. But
if Dallas can just get the best out of him
as often as possible, he's just a game changing offensive
piece there. Like you just you can't overstate the potential
impact of a guy that like gets the full defensive
focus when he's hot, and that plays on a team
with Kyrie Ring and Luka Doncics, Like that's that fundamentally
changes what Dallas can do.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, what do you make of do you
think that they are in what ways? Were they better
built to insulate him defensively than the Warriors? Where because
I saw a lot of that where it was, oh,
Clay was active, look at the steels he had in
Game one. But to me, I view it as yes,
they had Draymond Green, but inconsistently what you look at
his availability, the Mavericks are just bigger. They're huge, and
it feels like they are better built than the Warriors
to manipulate the type of matchups and responsibilities that Clay
is going to take on. And they also are you know,
maybe this year's version of the Warriors would have been
fine to insulate him, but when you look at Okay, yeah,
teams will target Clay. Mavericks are like trying and to
switch out of those actions well before it ever happens,
and they have experience doing that. So that's why I
think I don't know if he'll be a good defender.
They don't need him to be a good defender. They
just need him to not be a train wreck, and
they are built to make it so that he's not
a train wreck. And so it's I just I guess
I might be over correcting too, because it felt like
there were corners of the Internet that wanted us to
believe that Klay Thompson was basically a minimum contract edition
at the Mavericks overpaid and it's no, like this dude
has real value on the offensive end, and you put
him in a different environment, He's probably gonna buy into
this offensive role more than he would have with the Dubs.
Or maybe he would have bought in if the contract
wasn't a concern, who knows. I just find kind of
the perception of Klay Thompson now very fascinating.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, if you saw him on the wrong
nights last season, you could be persuaded like this guy
is just not a helpful player anymore because that was
the case. But just yeah, the context in Dallas is
so different, Like they can put so much size on
the floor around him that even if he is being targeted,
there's just more length just all over to just like
clean up if he does get blown by or whatever,
and just offensively too. It's like the distinction with in
Dallas is that like you have an ace on the
ball playmaker maybe two, and you have guys that are
just awesome role men which suck the defense in, and
like you don't really have any of that, you know,
not the curry is just a different kind of first
option and they had no role guys. So it's just
he's he's way better positioned to succeed on both ends,
but it's not guaranteed because of the age and the
injuries and the you know, the lack of discipline and
shot selection.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I have one question, yeah, got this before we
move on. Did you give any consideration to Quentin Grimes?
Speaker 2: I mean a little bit, just it's just because like,
well we talked about what a steal. That seems like
I would put him a little bit behind, like I
think even like Jayden Hardy might be more of an
X factor for me, just because the ball handling and
stuff like that. But Grimes, I mean, I don't know.
Grimes just feels like it's unfair that they were able
to get him. I don't know what I think about
his X factor case. All right, Denver Nuggets are the
next team. Man. There's unfortunately, there's like a few too
many guys because the thinking is that, like we've had
a little bit of a talent suck lately, you know,
the last two off seasons, we've lost key guys. Jamal
Murray does not look like Jamal Murray anymore, at least
to start this season. For me, it's still Christian Brown,
and it's a pretty straightforward case, like he is going
to need to prove that he can scare defenses with
a three point shot. While like I think the opener
against Okay, so he was like a really good distillation
of like sort of what you're getting and why that is.
It's just such an X factor, Like he didn't make
a three, he passed up some threes. He wasn't getting
guarded at all, and that's a huge problem. But he
was still awesome. As a cutter and in the open
floor and like defends his ass off and plays hard
and like does so many good things that I guess
against the right teams, maybe that just outweighs the shooting
quest questions. But he's just gonna have to make shots.
Like yeah, I mean the Nuggets fancy themselves a title contender.
I think that's realistic. Like that guy can't that guy
that he can't play big minutes in the finals. I
don't think, Like, yeah, I guess he did play. He's
done that before, but that's on a version of the
Nuggets with Bruce Brown and KCP. Like now it's just
the stakes are higher and there's no safety net, Like
he just has to be that guy, and I don't
know if he can.
Speaker 1: It comes back to for me because when you look
at just the off ball movement and the defense, I think,
really to open up against OKAYC, I thought he did
a fantastic job. But it sucks that it kind of
that we're oversimplifying it. But I don't think that it
is an oversimplification of he needs to take threes, he
needs to make some of them, and it's to me,
it's not about oh, could he play having minutes in
the finals, it's if you don't have If you have
KCP and Michael Porter Junior and Jamal Murray and there
are just three guys that you can count on getting
up a reasonable to an above average to a lot
of threes, it becomes easier to kind of like PLAYU
and PLoP some of these other dudes in there. But
when you're dealing with like no KCP, and if you're
also gonna have nice like if Jabalmartry Michael Porter Junior
are closer to their normals right now, then not now,
it's a real problem. And so you're trying to sprinkle in, Well,
Peyton Watson, we don't want Russ necessarily taking threes, even
though he's gonna have to take some of them. Like
you get to a point where it's, well, how relied
we need to become. On Julian Strather, I might have
actually picked him for that reason because I remained so
concerned about Denver's over all three point volume. I guess
you have to trust that. Like I've said this before,
like Michael Porter Junior is the streakiest all time great
shooter in the history of the NBA, right, Like there's
just he seems like he has more of those super
cold nights than any all time great shooter that I
could remember. Is that accurate? No?
Speaker 2: He this is annoying. He has the most stretches of
time where it's like, if that's going in, I have
no doubt that, like the second he shoots out, that's good,
and that'll be true for like entire orders. And then
there are other times where it's like that's got no chance,
which is just like not how you should feel about
someone with like what he's over forty percent for his career,
Like I'm pretty sure and he's just like lights out.
But yeah, the streakiness is kind of funny. Strather Man,
I guess like his roles similarly like elevated because you've
just pulled Christian Brown off of a bench unit that
was like not good last year, and the early return
suggests the Nuggets bench might be even worse now because
you've promoted someone who was like one of the few
guys that you know was that plus there before. So
I don't know, double X factor Strawther's there too.
Speaker 1: You could, I mean, you could make Russ the X
factor just for many different reasons too. It's Kenny helped
that bench. Is he going to be more detrimental than not?
I think here's my spicy take. I like Dimmy Clair.
I would have went with Strather. You could have went
with Jamal Murray.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Yeah, that and that's a bad thing that
you really right?
Speaker 1: Are we back to me? Oh my god, run of
the Detroit, Run of the Detroit Pistons. This I'm curious
to see where you would have went here, But for Detroit,
I wound up selecting Jay and Ivey. This, in theory,
should be too high profile, because I think if you
look at just the draft statuses and what he was
supposed to be, he should be the second most important
player in the building, no lower than third. And we
kind of just don't know what he is at this point,
which is part of the problem. He is starting so
many Williams that didn't stick. I mean, he'd started a
bunch of games last year too, but whatever. Anyway, Killian
Hayes out of the NBA now too. That's rough stuff anyhow.
So the X factor stuff for him is can he
play alongside k cunning him in a way that just
makes sense and be efficient while doing it. What I
saw in his first game of the season. This is
someone who feels like he's very much more active away
from the ball. They had him moving in from the corners.
Defenses still do not care about him from beyond the arc, though,
and that's going to need to change. He did have
some just nifty off the dribble plays. The vision is there.
I'm just curiously like Ken, it all come together where
it's like, even, okay, he's putting pressure on the rim,
but he ends up four to seven at the rim,
and some of those were difficult finishes, but statistically four
to seven at the rim is kind of also ram like,
it's not something that's going to stand out. And can
you be the best or optimal version of Jade and
Ivy while you're not necessarily the primary person with the
ball for a lot of your minutes Because Kate Cunningham exists,
and spoiler alert, Kate Cunningham fucking rules that dude looks.
That dude doesn't look just ready to make an All
Star team. He looks ready to contend for all NBA teams.
He won't because the Pistons aren't going to play enough
meaningful games for people to watch him, and they might
even play enough meaningful games for him to meet the
games threshold. He might get shut down at some point
he's been paid. But like Jade and Ivy is kind
of just he's a barometer four. Where are the Pistons
headed to? So based off how this comes together this year,
I would say maybe even by the trade deadline, you
kind of have a feeling for like, well, how are
we gonna then use Ron Holland or if he's healthy enough,
Asar Thompson. We're still waiting on what word with when
Aasar Thompson is going to back. So the stakes are
high when it comes. I mean it often is when
you don't know enough about a player when he's coming
into year three. But I'm so I like the energy
that I saw from him both on and off the
ball so far. But is it gonna come together in
an efficient package that makes enough sense for the Piston
to say, Okay, we are moving forward with this Cunningham
Ivy dynamic.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That No, the.
Speaker 2: Shooting, which informs like how viable he is with CAD
is like the immediate thing. But he when I was
talking in the intro about like some of these guys
are going to have like long term implications for I
was looking at Ivy's name as I was saying that,
just because like, well, he's either the guy next to
Caid or you're still looking for that guy, and maybe
he's maybe that guy's on the roster. Maybe that is
Ron Holland if the shot starts to fall or you know,
it's probably like Asar Thompson is just hope he plays
soon or I hope we find out like what's going
on soon. But he's like he's not a two. I
don't think so. So Ivy just is the guy of
like okay, And this feels like this is the year
too right where it's like he's either gonna show us
that he's a fit or not because we've stripped away
the bad coach that didn't trust him, We've surrounded him
with more shooting, Like he's deep enough in his career
where if there's going to be improvement, you would expect
to see it. So he's like the long term X
factor I think too, because you just don't know if
he's going to be, you know, in that starting lineup
next to Cunningham for seven eight years or not.
Speaker 1: And I will say based off what we've seen so
far this year and even during preseason. I'm more confident
that it would work out than I was before. Too
much of it kind of rides on how is he
going to be guarded without the ball, but the way
he's moving without it, and if you're able to put
like he had not was at nine free throw attempts
in the opening game, And it's like, if you're able
to generate that type of opportunity while you're not necessarily
your team's primary ball handler like that, I feel really
good about that. And there's still just like the element
of the passes he could make, or like once he
leaves his feet, you don't know what's gonna happen in
a good way. So I'm more optimistic than I was
a few mon ago. If that's any consolation to anybody,
and it might not be.
Speaker 2: I mean, it would be hard to have been less
optimistic too, I mean, because it was looking rough. All Right,
we're back to me now, so and I've got two here,
so you can you can take a brief break. I
said a little bit of a Naples, he got a
little bit onto the Golden State Warriors. This is, I mean,
a team that's gonna play twelve guys. I think by
definition has a lot of X factors, maybe thirteen shout
out Lindy Waters because we have to.
Speaker 1: My picks.
Speaker 2: Jonathan Kaminga and the fact that he didn't get his extension,
I think only makes him more of an X factor.
And you like you might say, well, now, like why
he improved significantly last year he got into the starting lineup.
He's viewed as, you know, just this key piece going forward.
And then it's like you see how he looks in
the opener where he's just making mistakes, not hitting shots,
not guarding anybody, and it's like, oh no, there is
like a swing here. There's there's potential downside both this
season because we've talked plenty. If he's not the guy
that's going to be your second score, then like who
is that guy?
Speaker 1: Nindy Waters Water Obviously it's rhetorical.
Speaker 2: And then and then expand that out, it's like now
you have the question of how does he handle not
getting that extension. The reporting was that the Warriors and
Kaminga's representation were far apart, like they did not get close.
So to me, that just means he thinks these Max
are close to it and the Warriors are like, well,
let's just prove it. The potential for that the sour
is there, so they'll throw that into the X factor
cauldron and like stir it around. Yeah, he just insane
physical talent. Don't know if the sort of processing is
there on both ends, And he's wildly important to a
Warrior's team that does not have like star quality players
in the pipeline like he's kind of it. So I
think he just has a massive potential to impact this
season the next several.
Speaker 1: Potentially we're going to talk more about the extensions that
we're signed and that we're not. But the report there's
two bits of reporting i'd like your take on, and
I know you know one of them. The other one
I'm guessing you actually don't know yet, so this will
be fun. But the first one, the reports were that
they offered some of the neighborhood of thirty million dollars
per year. He absolutely should have taken that money.
Speaker 2: Correct, If I'm making the decision for him, i'm advising him,
I would say yes, it's pretty clear that either he
and or his team are just like we think he's
way better than that.
Speaker 1: My whole thing there then is he's there's no way
he's finishing the season on this team. Then they're like,
they're they're not giving Jonathan minga max money.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm no, I'm I'm well, if they give Jonathan
kaminga max money, that'll suggest like great problem because he had,
you know, a an incredible breakout season. I am working
on something about who's going to be in the trade
rumor mill most of this season, and his name's on there,
so like, I I definitely because you're right, Like if
you don't think one, we may have like a frame
relationship between team and player, that's one thing we.
Speaker 1: Probably talk about you and me for a second, we.
Speaker 2: Probably do, uh, and two like this is just what
you do with someone where you're pretty sure that Like
it's almost like the eight and thing with Phoenix a
few years ago, whereas like that relationship had soured, they
had his restricted rights, they matched, and then eventually they
just traded him and it was like the most obvious
foregone conclusion ever. I don't think you want that situation, So, yeah,
trading him? Does did you get is there a report?
Speaker 1: I don't know about that? Like yeah from bleacher Report.
Shame you're terrible employee who reported that. Bleacher Reports Jake
Fisher oh Back said that the Sixers are interested in
trading for Jonathan coming good have let it be known
that they're prepared to pay him. I I have two
courts from lot of money right, Well, it's not Daryl
Morey's money, so I get why he's mine with it.
I want him skeptical that like if Philly is paying,
is it because they're on trading Joell and be that
like you can't have I don't think Jonathan can make
is gonna get Max money? That what kind of a
throwaway comment before I think there's a chance Johnathan can make.
It could still be really good. I do find it,
of course, I do think he was funny that he
responded to rejecting that type of money by having more
turnovers than assists in game one.
Speaker 2: That was just a very absolute trash effort.
Speaker 1: Well, Andrew Wiggins is dropping twenty looked great, not a
good but like you can't pay you have Maxy, George
and embiid all on Max's If you have to give
kaminga thirty to thirty five million, I respect that ownership
is lying about willing to pay that, but that last
one season and then you're busting up that core correct.
Speaker 2: Well, and like, so he's your fourth option, like you
really so, so congrats. You've just decided that he's gonna
basically be off the ball all the time and you're
just hoping the most athletic guy on planet Earth is
going to shoot a bunch of spot up threes, Like
that's what he's for now.
Speaker 1: My read on it because despite what Raptors fans think,
Jake Fisher is one of the most plugged in guys
in the business, and he just tells you stuff that
other people probably wouldn't put out there, which I appreciate. Like,
are they just the Joel Ebiid rest plan? Is like
we need like we'll start him at the five or
like our five on our five man, let's say thirty
five games a year isn't gonna be Joellenbiids, So we
kind of need that someone who could slot in as
a second or like first option. And Paul George is
getting older. I don't even know. I don't necessarily understand
the theory of him on that team, but I almost
want it to happen. And if you're the Warriors and
you're looking at it, if they're gonna put that Clippers
pick in twenty twenty eight on the table. I'm if
you're worried about Peyton Jonathan Kaminga again, if they're willing
to give up that pick, though, you might be in
a situation where the words that we're not trading him
because we want to keep like if he's if he's
worth that pick and other stuff to the Sixers, Right,
this is.
Speaker 2: The beauty of restricted free agency, is like, as long
as the relationship's not totally wrecked, you just have the
ability to pay him whatever he's actually worth because the
market will tell you. And like, by the way, nobody
has any money this summer, so like, like I don't
know where he thinks more than thirty million a year
is coming from in free ation.
Speaker 1: To me, that's why the track. So there's like the Nets,
maybe the Hornets, maybe the Spurs. All this other stuff
has to happen. The Spurs have a shit ton of
caproom if they didn't pay Zach Collins. That's I don't
think Kaminga is a Spurs type player though, But there's
so few teams to your point, and that's why my
initial reaction was, well, then he's planning on getting traded,
because that's how you get paid. Yeah, could be, could be,
But to your RFA point, I think teams should use
it more. I'm fine with the teams that didn't, and
I'm fine. We're gonna have a podcast on this, so
I don't want to get too much into it. But
I don't think teams use restricted free agency enough. And
that goes both ways. No one gives out offer sheets anymore,
so they don't want to tie up the cap space
for a day and a half. It's like, just do it.
I want to I want to see people try and
game it. So this is He's an X factor in
so many ways, in large part because of what is
his mindset going to be if he if he wants
to get paid. Are you sorry to keep it here?
Is he on the Warriors next season?
Speaker 2: Uh? My gut says yes, just because they I don't
think there's a huge market, and I think the Warriors
might be able to get him back for like even
less than thirty a year potentially, and if they have
to pay more, it'll be because he's been great enough
to deserve it. But I will acknowledge that, like the
things that have happened over the last week or so,
make a trade, like pretty logical. At some point, I.
Speaker 1: Will say if they pay him less. I feel like
teams never squeeze their own guys that are that important,
And so if he has like not a great year
or it's a lateral year, they're still gonna give him
what they offer. I would imagine if it's less, I'm
kind of wondering, Like, man, that must have been some
tough sletting in negotiations. But it's is he kind of
the maybe not because he's more important to the Warriors
than Jail and Green is the Rockets, But he's like
kind of the jail and Green of this team in
the sense that he's so divisive, but he's just his
ceiling is so high, and then he's even more important
a Golden State's future than Houston's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the fourteen other guys, which we're going to talk
about right now, good Sege.
Speaker 1: That's why I set it up like that, Houston.
Speaker 2: Rockets up next again, Like a lot of options here,
just partly because there's so many young players that we're
just not sure like how good or how quickly they're
going to get good and what that's going to look like.
So I'm going with Jabari Smith Junior, and which is
weird because he's sort of a more known commodity than say,
like I'man Thompson or even like Reed Shepherd, uh Cam
went more just because like I think we can count
on the shooting being there. I think I'm I'm mostly
a believer that he's just going to be a good
spacing forward who can play a little five. Now that
Shanngoon has got his deal, I don't know how much
we're going to see of that, and Steven Adams is
still a thing. The reason to me he's an X
factor is that he unlocks combinations of all those other
young guys in ways that you just that is uncomplicated.
So it's kind of a roundabout way of saying, like
if Aman Thompson's going to reach his potential, he's probably
going to do it playing next to Smith because of
the spacing and the defensive versatility he provides, like just
go down the line. Smith is kind of the guy
that as you're putting together like lineup constructions, you can
just put him out there, and I think he helps
everybody else around him sort of be the best version
of themselves. And that's that's true of like Shngoon or
just literally anybody. So it's a little different approach to
the X factor thing. But I think his impact on
everybody else around him that we're not sure about yet,
I think is so profound that like he registers as one.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm totally with you. I think you could have
gone a bunch of different routes here, but he is
like the right mix of super high end and an
X factory. And it's also I don't want to make
it like this, but where does he fit into the
He's so plug and play right now at both ends
of the floor. As you said, he optimizes kind of
everyone around him and can play in all these different roles,
like what's the he's going to be extensional after the season,
and what's the plan for him? Even if you think,
let's just assume like everyone has that Jalen Green's extension
was signed so that they could trade him over the offseason. Okay, fine,
but you've paid shang Gun Tarri Easton's also extension eligible
next summer. Then you gotta start talking about Ahmed Thompson
Reed Shepherd's gonna come up after that. Like these are,
it's not a bad situation to be in, but they're
not paying over the next two years. They're not paying
all these guys. So even if you say, well, Jalen
Green's gonna be God one of Tari Easton or Jabari
Smith Junior is probably going If you view shang Gun
as the guy, which I think is smart. He's so
transcendent on the offensive end, Like that's what's interesting about
his future, and I think people will look at him.
And I've even talked to people who don't follow the rockets,
not an insult to them, like they don't understand how
good he is because he's filling in all these different
gaps and he's not not that he's not central to
what they do, but he's not like front and center
to everything they do. And that's what makes him so valuable.
He's able to succeed in that way. And I'll say
this is someone who I remember how he was considered
offensively coming out of college. I've been blown away by
his defense to where if you were asking me, is
there give me point five all defense teams for his career,
I might take the over at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just I mean, he's like a force multiplier
in that like, well, yeah, what a turn What.
Speaker 1: A turner phrase by you? Did you have that written down?
Is it a pot It's.
Speaker 2: Even it's not even quite right. It's it's more just
like he allows you to get information about players that
it makes it easier for you to get information about
other players on his team that you need, Whereas like
so if you're playing Eason and Whitmore and Thompson together,
it's like, ah, these guys are kind of just in
the way of each other. You put one of them
out there or two of them with Smith who's spacing
and guarding and whatever, and you can just get a
sense of like, Okay, how do these guys mix in
with the types of support pieces you're gonna want on
a good team, which is exactly what it now. He's
a high end support piece. But like Smith is not
like a first option, right or me even a second option.
He's just like the sort of just a three and
D like big win, like ultra big wing, right, Like
that's kind of how I view him.
Speaker 1: But you could watch him and you could see like
he has that like I'm not comparing the two the
Kevin Durant in him where it's like no, like he
wants to operate, get into the mid range, like he's
going to take those shots. Yeah, which, by the way,
the way do you just give him whatever? Like when
when he can operate on the ball and wants to
attack that way. But by the way, sometimes they go
in and the fallaway stuff is pretty it's not always
going in. But I don't know, he's another player where
I don't like if you put him in a different
situation or the Rockets team look different, maybe we would
have a better gal. I don't know what his ceiling
is is what I'm getting at it, right, I'm not
going to put a limit on it. But the fact
that he can be this good where he's not a
featured option and he's more of kind of just like
this defensive anchor than like if you were to like
his primary responsibilities, he does the most for them on defense,
I think. Right, that's pretty clear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good job by me.
Speaker 1: My team is the Indiana Pacers. You know who I picked?
Would you have picked the same person before we get
to him?
Speaker 2: Uh, Well, there's one other guy who is not even
in your honorable mention, but he hasn't shown anything, and
so now you know, now you know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think give me the case. I think I think.
Speaker 2: This is the right pick, though.
Speaker 1: I went with Bennancmathern, and I hate to be this person.
I was heavily influenced by their first game of the
season because I thought jars Walker was going to play.
Speaker 2: That's the guy I was talking about.
Speaker 1: Jars Walker barely played, and that is I must not
have followed him closely enough coming out of college. I
thought what was going to translate the best from him
was the stuff he could do on defense. And when
you look at what the Pacers and the Heat on defense,
it's a Jaris Walker sized player doing what Jarvis Walker
was supposed to do coming in entering the NBA, and
he can't get minutes one game. One game. I'm not
saying I'm proud of it, but that's that's where my
head is at.
Speaker 2: Well fair sorry, in fairness to you, it's one game
and a whole season, so it's not just the one,
it's it continued and part of.
Speaker 1: That season they did not have Pascal Siakam Right, another
X factor is okay. So James Wiseman tears his achilles,
I hope he's okay recovery. I hope he gets a
good ro It's not gonna be a quick recovery because
it's never a recovery. But they just don't want to
play Obie top It wasn't just the Tims thing. People
like Michael Malone was like James Wiseman gets injured, they
wouldn't put Obi top It at the five during that game. Anyway.
I thought about Aaronie Smith here, and I think in
immediate terms, he might be the pick because of the
defensive responsibility he's going to shoulder and he looks still
like a firecracker in transition he fills that three and
d roll. He don't maybe want him dribbling too much.
But Benedic Maathrin, it's we're focusing on a lot of
year three players here. This is no different, but it's
you're seeing the theory of what he can do on
offense in a larger context of this team. You saw
it in preseason, you saw it in their opening game
of the season. But like they need him to be
better defensively. I think he's had moments where you I
don't ever view him is locked down, but like he's
held his own and been able to scale up. But
you also need to get to a point where we're
gonna play him with Haliburton and then Andrew Nemhard and
then whoever in the front court is Siakam Turner, and
we're gonna feel really good about what that defense can be.
As of right now, I don't and I really don't
blame Benedickmathern for that. It's more about this is why
he's the X factor to me. The makeup of this
team is so weird where they've we've known they've needed
this wing type player forever, they've yet to try and
go out and get him. People tried to pedal Pascal
Siakam as that player upon the trade. He was never
that player maybe first coming into the league, like the
Pacers didn't even really try to use him defensively as
that player. I don't think that's his best role defensively,
And you can only ask Andrew Nemhard to guard up
so much. And so what do you view Benedickmathern as
if you're the Pacers by season's end or even the
trade deadline, if you want to go into that, is
if you think he's like, Okay, yeah, he can fit
into the larger context of the offense, all right, cool?
Is that what you need out of that? Like, this
guy's about to get paid. So I'm not saying he
needs to be the answer defensively, but if he can
continue to get better defensively, and I do think if
you go back to his rookie season up until now
in one on one situation specifically, he has gotten better defensively.
But if you don't view him as an additive on
that end, or even like I don't even over net
neutrals enough, I don't understand his like what is the
future of him on this team, then if you have
Nemhard and Halliburt, you could just say, well, he's eventually
like he's just going to settle into that sixth man
type role. Okay, great, But to me, he's actually clearly
better than that on the offensive end, like his archetype
for all he does defensively is a plug and play guy.
Some of the catching ghost stuff on the ball, some
of the more methodical stuff on the ball. We'll see
if he continues to progress as a passer. It's so
fascinating because I don't put him here because I don't
think he has value. I just feel like his value
might be marginalized or is capped on a team that
is built the way that the Pacers are right now.
Speaker 2: That's one hundred percent. It's so like, you know, he
I feel like I default to, Oh, I see the
skill set, and it's like that's a six man, like
a very good offensive six man, and like the Pacers
don't need that, And so he might be an X
factor in the sense that like if he doesn't show
the things you're hoping he shows defensively and otherwise he's
the way you trade for that guy potentially, like and
like that's it feels early, I guess to be talking
about that, but like the Pacers aren't a rebuild. This
is a team that's like ready to try to make
the conference finals again. So yeah, I think I think
that's the way to go. Jaris Walker would have been
my pick, But it's just like the X, the upside
of the X, Like I just there's.
Speaker 1: Sorry, is his case stronger or weaker if he's an
inconsistent part of the regular rotation Walker?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's stronger just because he's
playing more and has the potential to have a bigger impact.
But I I've never heard it quite put like the
way that you they what they needed. What they need
basically is what Jarris Walker is supposed to be. Like,
that's exactly what the Pacers need. So like good pick
based on the scouting, it just hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I wrote about this for basketball she wrote had
me on a guest panel shout out Kaitlyn Cooper. One
of the questions was what were you most what stood
out to you the most about the Pacers preseason? You
know that I've just kind of written off Jaredson, like, no,
he's not really gonna be pluging and playing on offense,
and so even if the defense comes along, he just
looks like you put him in any lineup offensively feels
like he's gonna work. Now, the shooting feels real, He's
making quick decisions once he catches the ball, and so
I'm like, oh, okay. But the thing that I thought, well,
at least maybe I just didn't watch enough of him,
Like I didn't watch any of him in college. Maybe
not clear, maybe didn't study him enough coming out of
the draft. But the thing I thought he was apposed
to do the best, I'm just kind of like, now, like
what is going on here.
Speaker 2: Oh man, all right, I got oh, it's up back
to me here for three. Here we go, all right,
So I have the Clippers. Man is the X factor
like James Harden's usage rate, that's gonna be like in
the fifties. It looks like this season I went with
Chris Dunn, and that feels like about as close to
too deep of a cut as we've had on this.
And the theory is, just if you're gonna have Harden
doing everything like you already couldn't ask him to do
anything on defense, and now you really can't expect any
defense at a Harden. So I just I just view
Chris Dunn as one sort of a someone who through
by basically salvaging his career by being a capable three
point shooter for small samples in the past, like someone
that can space a little bit you. So therefore he
can play with Harden, which means you get his defense
on the floor, which is really the what you're after,
and can sort of like he's just not a pure
point guard. I think coming out of college it felt
like that's what he was viewed as. He can he
can get the ball over half court and initiate the
offense as a backup, and I'm fine with that. I
like him better than like whoever you might Terrence Mann
or what you want to put the on Nick Batoomb's
hands as like an initiator or whatever. So he just
kind of ticks enough boxes for a Clippers team that
I expect is gonna be pretty bad and it's gonna
need a lot of help on both ends, especially in
the backcourt with with what you're asking hard to do.
He just feels like someone who could have a much
bigger than you think impact for whatever that's worth in
a season that I don't have a lot of faith in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know where else do you go on the
Clippers if not? You know, like, I'm sure there's a
lot of options because there's a lot of guys that
are just like Iffy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess with Kawhi out is it
some I mean, Chris dun would be the smartest answer
because he'll have to do some stuff on ball. Now.
I think you probably could have gone with Kevin Porter Junior.
But then he doesn't. After everyone talking about how much
he was gonna play for the Clippers, he barely plays
when they opened into it to him, I.
Speaker 2: Just don't trust him to make it through a season. Frankly,
like what for on or off court reasons?
Speaker 1: So like I know i'd be with you. I'm just
saying for what they need the most. Chris Dunn doesn't
on offense, does typify that, But I'm with you in
the sense that I get it could be. I mean,
is it is it is a Vicha Zubats too or
is it is he too high profile because he's I
find interesting about him is that I don't know if
ty Lew is still coaching, like it's three years ago,
but he's still kind of like pulling him for these
smaller lineups and a Vicha Zubats right now. I mean,
who's better defensively than him?
Speaker 2: He's their best. The thing with him is he's their
best defensive player, the most important defensive player, and he's
all I feel like he is, like if X factors
have like a pretty wide breadth of outcomes, like we
just know what Zubats is at this point, you know
what I mean, Like he's just he's gonna produce pretty
much in line. Maybe maybe the numbers go up because
Kawi is out, But like he's just he's just not
maybe Norm Powell just because you're asking him to play
a role he hasn't played in a while as a
starter and like much more featured offensive player. So I
don't know that there's.
Speaker 1: Clippers are another team populated by X factors because and
I think, I like it's weird because Kawhi's absence should
have this mega trickle down effect, but it's hard to
spot aside from Harden Well, who's the player that's like
kind of gonna have to pick up the most slacked there?
So I think done is he's He's one of probably
a few right answers, And I honestly I don't have
like the alternative who Yeah, this was the I'm glad
I didn't have this team. I'm also glad I didn't
have this next team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, I'm a little subject to some recency bias here.
Speaker 1: This is the Lakers and I this is the whoop.
Anyone who's watching on YouTube already knows. Can you tell
them who it is?
Speaker 2: It's down connect, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 1: This is the team. I didn't talk about this at
the outset. If I had to pick a coach, the
Lakers would have probably been the team that I would
pick the coach for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's interesting. I will say the opener reflected
well on JJ Reddick. So, but that's one game. We
got several several more this year, Dan, I don't know
if you know that they play more.
Speaker 1: How many of those are we actually gonna watch. I've
watched my one Lakers game.
Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, Quota, I ticked the box, and I
don't have to watch them anymore. No, So Connect, I
just like, look the twe straight and the thirty five
points in the last preseason game. Like did some things
that I was pretty intrigued by in the opener and
the pedigree of just like he's ready, he can contribute. Now,
we both have been dismissive, I think as a reaction
to Lakers fans thinking Connect is just going to be
like a plus plus rotation player right off the bat.
We do not subscribe to that thinking for almost any rookie.
I'm still kind of there, like, but I do think
he has the It looks like he's got the game
to just kind of fit in and plug gaps and
be a valuable shooter and secondary creator hold up on defense,
like right place right time stuff. And I think the
bigger factor is, like if he's really ready for big
rotation minutes, that's kind of the way forward for Okay,
now if we're trying to make a big impact trade,
like we're okay giving up ru Hachimura or like we're
you know, if there's a little more playmaking in his game.
I don't like the Delo stuff, Like I don't think
connect being a good offensive player means you can trade Delo.
I think you can trade Delo because just any guard
you get back will be fine. But that's the other
factor is just like if he's really ready and he's
on a rookie scale contract and just you know, he's cheap,
he's making an impact, you can move some of your
costlier guys in a blockbuster trade. And that's just like
he enables that a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even know, like what the alternative pick
would be. Maybe it would have to be Ruie.
Speaker 2: Really looked real good to me in that opener, like
super aggressive. You could go with like I don't know,
Jared Vanderbilt or Gabe Vincent, just like will they play?
But that you know, that's a short conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this team this team is another tough one, but
I agree. I think I probably would have went with
Dalton Connect as well. All you could have also went
with Max Christie, I guess, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's we moved to the Memphis Grizzlies here
and I'm going to back to back it here. Another rookie.
I hope I don't have any more rookies. I think,
Oh no, I do have one further down. I'm going
with Zach Edie. We have talked. This is like the
only discussion point about him basically is like he's going
to start, and he did, and he's got some real
pluses and that he's enormous and is actually a good
finisher inside blocks a lot of shots. How's he going
to hold up in space? How's he gonna can he
spread the floor at all? So the questions are as
obvious as the like quality attributes for him, And I
just think he has such a potential to change how
the Grizzlies look because if it's not him in the middle,
then it's a lot more Jaron Jackson Junior when he's healthy,
and that just that just changes. Or santi All Dama, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Superstar, santi Al Dama. I don't know good.
Speaker 2: He looked good. I mean, he's not an X factor.
He's just gonna get you twenty seven every night. He also,
by the way, in that in their opener, he he
couldn't buy one the first He had such clean looks
to start the game from three, and like, I think
it might have only been two, but it felt like,
oh my god, like if he can't make this shot,
and then he made all of the rest of the shots.
But yeah, it has to be eaty, doesn't it. It's
just like he's either going to be a plus starter
or like, oh no, we can't play him against a
lot of lineups. And then what do we do.
Speaker 1: Is there another rookie who profiles is having the other
will have the single biggest impact on their team, for
better or worse?
Speaker 2: This season's another rookie. Well, there may be some that
play more, but like that's going to develop over time.
Like they're just starting him now, you know, Like and
they're trying to be good or trying to win fifty games,
so yeah, they know. I think he's he's got for
better or worse, Like he's just in a position where
he matters more than I think any other rookie I did.
Speaker 1: Entering the season, I predicted that he was going to
average a double double with at least one point five
blocks per game might and I think that sounds fairly modest,
but there's not a lot of players who have done that.
Because like, he's gonna get the ten points. I think
he's going to play enough. But the only other rookies
to do that are Tim duncan A, Lonzo morning To,
Kenbe Matumbo, Shaquille O'Neil, Meca okafor kim O LaJuan, David Robinson,
Ralph Samsaying, Karl Anthony Towns, and Victor Webbin Yama. I
felt pretty good about the prediction. I spent some time
writing saying, as long as he stays out of foul trouble,
oh boycho And after watching him in preseason, I was
pretty confident that even if the minutes were borderline where
he wasn't closer to thirty, he was closer like twenty
four or something. Oh, this will be fine.
Speaker 2: He bounthed out in his first with fifteen minutes. I
think it was like some crazy low total. Yeah no,
I mean I'm going to excuse that just as like
you know, the cliche of like the game's moving too
fast for him. It's like I can imagine on opening
night of your rookie season you're starting, Like I can
imagine things looking a little blurry out there, at least
at the outset.
Speaker 1: If he is not it as a rookie, which by
the way, is just possible because he's a rookie. I
know he's a four year college player. He's still a
rookie in the NBA. Do you actually think they have
enough in the front court to overcome that?
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, Like that's what I mean is like
it'll I think so just because Jackson can be your center.
I just think he's way more dynamic and exciting if
you can let him rove off the ball a little more.
But like you're giving up rebounding, you're giving up like
a lot more size and length because theoretically, if he's
your center, you're playing someone who's like a three or
a four at the you know what I mean, Like
Aldama is not a force full player if he's your
starting four next to Jackson. So, like you, I think
the Grizzlies will still be good just because there's enough
Ja Morant, Desmond Vane Jackson, like that those three like,
just give me average players around them. That's a good team.
It's just very different. It's less. It's less like the
really good Grizzlies teams with Adams, just like beating the
shit out of everybody in between all that talent.
Speaker 1: My turn, We're onto the Miami Heat. I struggled with
this team and I ended up settling on someone who
I didn't think I was gonna settle on, but he
came down to Jaime Hakkez and Nikola Jovis for me.
I ended up going with Nikola Jovich And in theory
it should be Hakes. He's just a more dynamic player overall.
But I'm watching this Heat offense and they just desperately
need somebody, anybody who's gonna get up threes, yep. And
Nikoliovitch just look, I know Terry Rozier will get him up,
I know, but I'm talking about someone kind of not
I don't even want to say, like from the three,
four to five spot. Someone's got to get him up.
And Nikoliovitch is gonna get him up. And I know
he only met went one to seven in their opening
game of the season, where they got absolutely trucked by
the way, I just for what they need him to
do alongside bam Adebayo, and I think he's he's what
I think defensively, my hope is for Grady Dick where
it's okay, he's got size, he's always in the right spots,
he's got some strength to him, and so I don't
think he's a great defender, but I think that you
can build an elite defense with him in the lineup
as one of your five, whether he's a part of
that or in spite of him. I don't think he
can summarne a defense, but he's going to be an
X factor there because if you're playing alongside bam Adebayo,
ther responsibility is still going to be fairly like huge.
You're just gonna get a ton of minutes there. But
it's made me for the offense. It's just like when
you're trying to search for unexpected dynamism from this team,
I'm like, Okay, is hawks ever gonna expand his three
point volume? And we know what Tyler Hero and Terry
Rozier can do, But they're doing kind of what you
expect them to do. Like, where's the swing piece on
offense gonna come? From and that's where it came down
for Jime or Nikoli Jovich. For me, I think it's
Jovic because he seems more, he is playing more of
a I guess finite role would be the way to
describe it. But like that role is going to be
important if you want to open the floor because you
have bam Madabayo is gonna take more threes. He's not
gonna take a ton. Jimmy Butler is just not going
to take a ton of threason. Uh, it might is
that we'll have to do. Is there a piece or
panic to be done on Jimmy Butler at this point?
I don't know. But if if Hawks his volume is
going to remain where it is, If Heyward HeiG Smith's
value is going to remain where it is, they need
Nikola Yovich is floor spacing like they absolutely need it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think Hawkes is someone I don't
know if this is totally fair, but like he doesn't
seem like an X factor to me because it's like, well,
if he just plays more, he'll just give you more
of what he's already giving you. Like I maybe maybe
I'm putting too like low of a ceiling on him,
but I just think he's a he's a really good
rotation player, could start. But it's like we kind of
know what we're getting there. Yovic is the guy that,
like for a couple of years was when you're making
up fake Heat trades. It's like, this is the young
piece that you're getting from the Heat. You know, it's
picks and Yovich and matching salary because he's got all
this potential. It's like, now we're here, he's a starter
and he has to exactly what you said, like show
me you're a little closer to Laurie Markinen than you know,
this low usage like non threatening offensive piece you've been,
which is, you know, somewhat unfair to him because he
hasn't had a ton of opportunity like now he does,
and the Heat straight up need him to be like
a really impactful offensive player, and like we'll just we'll see, well,
we'll just that's gonna go a long way towards determining
if you're excluding like the superstars, like what this Heat
team can do because the offensive sucked forever and like
he's just a piece that could be one of the
reasons it doesn't. For the first time, in a while.
Speaker 1: I also have the Milwaukee Bucks here. This I did
not have to think too much about. I just don't
even know why we have the mystery up on screen
for and watching on YouTube. I went with Gary Trent Junior.
I thought this was pretty clear. He is a starter.
But they're going to simultaneously be asking him to do
a lot of lifting defensively in a way that he
hasn't done in the past, where it's can you all
right you want to go for your steals? Like, yeah,
forcing turnovers is great, but you're also like, you need
to just be a better, more attentive on ball defender.
And I mean, how many steals did he have in
his first game of the season, Grant that would be zero,
atypical for Garret Trent Junior. So that's huge in itself.
But they're also kind of asking him to play I
don't know if it's a different offensive role, but you're
gonna have to be okay taking six shots on some
night apparently is he gonna be okay doing that? And
he's going to have to trust that doing that will
get him paid, that contributing to a winner will get
him paid, which is it's it's easier said than done,
especially when and I know the Bucks season kind of
went off the rails last year, but like Malik Beasley
was good for them. He got six million dollars on
a one year deal from the Detroit Pistons. Gary turn
Junior is different. He's younger, he's a better defender overall.
But I'm just interested see how his season plays out.
I also think, by the way, though, if he's buying
into this role, he's a near perfect fit for this team.
I think there are other players that you would want
defensively in a vacuum, but for their core lineup when
Chris Middleton is healthy, and by the way, he's probably
more important than them during Chris Middleton's absence as well.
And but you look at that five man lineup with Middleton, Lopez, Giannis, Damon,
Garrit trun Junior that has best in the league potential
as a five man combination, and you need Gary trun
Junior to be good for that to happen. I'm optimistic
that it will be. But if things go sideways, or
if he's just not having enough of a defensive impact,
or if he's not dealing well with kind of the
lower more streamlined offensive volume after what he's kind of
had in Toronto the past couple of seasons, there are
some downside here. I ultimately think it's gonna pan out,
but we also could be looking back at just saying wow,
I didn't realize how huge that minimum signing was for
the Bucks, Like we touted it as a bargain, but
look at how good What are they gonna do without
it when he leaves over the summer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's such an interesting player because, like like you said,
being disruptive is valuable, but it's like a guy that
really his main defensive impacts are sort are It's like
it's not quite right to say that it's based on
being kind of undisciplined, but like he did gamble a lot,
Like that's how you get the steel totals that he gets.
And now you're asking him to be very very different
where it's like be solid because you're guarding somebody that
you can't ignore and you can't go steel hunting. You
have to check this guy. And like I mean you
you said, like can he can he do this smaller role,
different role well enough and help generate wins enough to
get paid, Like in his mind it's got to be like,
that's that's all big ask. You're asking someone to be
very very different defensively and change how they're playing on offense,
and he totally matters. Yeah, he's like the only pick here.
I couldn't even entertain an argument on somebody else.
Speaker 1: Look the I don't really like going by the shot
data on this, so I'm gonna use the team performance.
He guarded Tyre's Maxie a bolt load in their opener,
and the Sixers there's no Joell ebid in Paul George,
so take this with a gigaton assault. They average point
nine to five points per possession when Gary Trent Junior
guarded Tyrrius Maxin, So I don't know if he has
that same impact if Joel embid and door Paul George
are on the court but off to a good start.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll take it back to me here. I have
the Minnesota Timberwolves. Again, I'm brushing up against like to established,
too well known, too good of a player, but like,
just look at the dichotomy of his first two games.
This is Julius Randall just like atrocious in their opener, right,
Like Ruyachi Mura's quote of like we kind of know
he just stands around on defense. Was just so damning,
and it was like, I mean, first of all, appreciate
the candor. I wish more players just would say stuff
like that.
Speaker 1: He said it so casually.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. It was like, it wasn't meant disrespectfully.
It was like a matter of I'm going to give
you a factual statement on what we talk about when
we talk about Julius Randall. He just laid it out
there much better. In their second game against Sacramento was
like thirteen to seventeen, handle the ball a lot, Yeah,
super efficient, Like, so there's that aspect out of like,
what's he gonna.
Speaker 1: Mind his overall though in that game, I believe.
Speaker 2: And so how's he gonna a lot of this is
similar to what you would always talk about with Julius
Randall is like how does he He's a weird fit,
like he needs the ball, he doesn't really space reliably.
And that's just compounded by the fact that he's on
probably the best team he's ever been on, or at
least played a lot for, because last year's Nicks, like
he missed a huge chunk of the important part of
their season. And the fit is weird With Gobert, is
he just there because he's a contract that might ex buyer,
Like is he gonna be traded? Like just view him
as a trade chip, as an X factor if you want.
Like he there's just so many angles with him. He's
just the great unknown there, Like there's a world where
it works, where it fits, where maybe he figures out
how to play with Gobert, or maybe it just works
better with nas Reed. Maybe he's a second unit leader.
I don't know, but like how he plays the role,
he occupies the night to night fluctuations, like that's gonna
have such a massive like say in how good the
Wolves are this year? So I just I know he's
really good. But like I just had to go with him.
Speaker 1: I mean, who else were you? I guess you couldn't
went with Dante DiVincenzo if you think that he's gonna
close games over him or just play more overall, but
that his fit is the entire Like they Dante DiVincenzo,
we know what's gonna do for them, And like that's
the piece that Knicks fans struggled the most to give
up in that trade. I think that's the piece that
Wolves fans are most excited to get back once they
came to terms of losing Karl Anthony Towns. Julius Randall's
fit is probably going to There's Anthony Edwards' continued growth,
and then after that is Julius Randall's fit is probably
the second most important factor into their ceiling, both offensively
and defensively.
Speaker 2: We've come a long way from h is Rob Dillingham
ready as the main thing we talk about for the
Timberwolves like not a concern anymore.
Speaker 1: I will say, because of how late the trade was
made the Wolves, I'm inclined to give less time to
the Knicks, like as a grace period, but like for
the Wolves, like this might need some time and people
might need to come to terms with that. Maybe it
still ends up being a poor fit, but there's probably
going to be a lot of highs and lows in
peaks and valleys with him, Like he didn't like he
had to uproot his life, like right before or during
training camp basically. And the other thing is like he's
always been a difficult player to fit in to a
larger context, and so now you're trying to almost incorporate
this on the fly so I'm inclined to do you
agree with that, like I'm inclined to give the Wolves
more of a grace period to figure it out than
the Knicks Or is that not fair?
Speaker 2: No? No, No, I think that's right, just because like Towns
is just I don't know, we we do this too much.
But it's like he spaces the floor as a center,
so like therefore everything's easy on offense, you know, like
on that opening game. That's the thing, Like that's the
default you go to. Yeah, and like I agree, you
have to give him time, but not to get too
far ahead of ourselves, like if he's gonna decline that
player option and go into free agency, like you kind
of have till the trade deadline because you're gonna maybe
want to move him before.
Speaker 1: You get this happens for the idea that he would
opt out and you could just wipe that twenty t well.
Speaker 2: I mean that's like the darkest timeline if you're a
Wolves fan. Right, it was a purely financial move, Like
you gotta hate that. I have the New Orleans Pelicans next,
and this is a deeper cut. So I feel good
about the contrast here, although I am annoyed that opposing
broadcasts and even the Pelicans broadcast are now just talking
about already. Some of it is preseason, and some of
it was the opener of just like, oh, this guy
so much more costs, Like damn it stopped talking about him.
I feel like I was I was in early Jordan Hawkins.
Who's that Yeah, let me tell you Bill as the
best movement shooter in his draft class. You know, the
utility of a player like him, given his size is
a little bit limited. There's a cap on it. But
for this Pelicans team, that is just like losing guys
left and right. I think having just a plus plus
movement shooter who might have some on ball stuff maybe
or at least like the kind of on ball stuff
that really dangerous respected shooters have where it's like upfake
two dribbles, I'm making a pass because you're terrified that
I'm gonna shoot the three. Like he could have a
real outsize impact on how New Orleans plays offensively, whether
that involves an actual center or not, just to have
the dimension of someone that saying contrast to Brandon Ingram,
who when he's sprinting moving around off the ball like
he's looking for threes, as opposed to look into like
take a hand off, two dribbles into the you know,
inside the arc, and pull up like that's just a
different dimension than they get from anybody else. Trey Murphy
has insanely deep range, but he's more of like a
catch and shoot guy. I don't I don't know if
he's like he doesn't have the dynamic movement that Hawkins does,
and like I think Hawkins like shot versatility to use
like the kind of hoity toity, you know, scout term
is like he doesn't need to have those feet perfectly
set to get off like a really good look, and
he can do it at like a Wayne Ellington like
dead sprint to pull up like that kind of thing
does It doesn't even deeper pull Wayne Ellington, by the way.
So yeah, I think he just he gives the Pelicans
something they can't get from really anybody else. And so
that's why I'm picking him.
Speaker 1: What is his role on this team when they're at
full strength, which we just might not see by the way,
So Zion miss is the opener and then Jean say
Murray's gonna be out four to six weeks after having
surgery on his hand. So I would think in the interim,
Jordan Hawkins will pull, especially while Trey Murphy's out. By
the way, now he's gonna play a lot now, I think, right,
but when Trey Murphy comes back, when de Jontay Murray
comes back, By the way, this isn't necessarily related, but
we're now at another point where it's you want to
know how brandon Ingram fits in when they're at full strike, Well,
you know what, fuck that, You're not gonna see it
because now they're gonna need to do more stuff on
the ball with Right now, he's suddenly.
Speaker 2: Back to like I guess Zion will be fine, but
it's just he was just sick. But it's like, so
now we're back to like we need brandon Ingram to
dominate the offense for like the several minutes every night.
Speaker 1: I just not go one season without this team without
having to say, oh, like we really just need to
see when it's all together for an extended period of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe brandon Ingram should be there.
Speaker 1: That was a deep cut. I favorite. I don't know
who else you could have really gone with. I have
the Knicks, though, I guess you could have gone with
Trey Murphy. Right if you wanted to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, because it's like, oh, this is the
guy they paid. He's gonna play over brandon Ingram once
we trade him like that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Or you could have used brandon Ingram. I guess like
that's super high profile, but you probably could have made
a case.
Speaker 2: For brand to make the argument.
Speaker 1: So I have the Knicks I want with Douced McBride here,
I think you could. Rapidly it's becoming clear like maybe
Josh Hart could be the pick. Is he gonna start
is like what is he gonna look like? But the
Knicks very clearly seemed to view him as like the
sixth man and an extension of their starting lineup? Is
he good enough to be viewed that? Like the whole
idea of this Knixt team and kind of getting past
their depth is they have six or seven guys that
you can trust and regardless of how deep you're going
Deuce McBride, whether it's six or seven, he needs to
be one of those guys. I don't know. We've just
seen enough Depencil. We know what energy's gonna bring. Defensively,
he's mostly plug and playing on the offensive end. But
if you're gonna put him in certain lineups. His defensive
workload's gonna be heavier. There are gonna be certain lineups
where if you're not you know, like you might need
him to give you some Paul Handley, even though that's
not necessarily how they view him. And he's also an
X factor in the sense of, well, if you're really
trying to be five out, does it make more sense
to play him a bunch with the four non Josh
Hart starters. So there's all types of ways he's going
to impact this team. But I think probably even just
the bigger thing. Okay, they have mcal Bridges, they have Ojananobi.
We're talking point of attack defense against specifically smaller advantage creators.
He is their best option, like that is just because
O Janninoby's gonna have to be doing especially he seems
like he's gonna be tethered to Karl Anthony Towns his minutes,
maybe even more so than Jalen Brunton is. At this point,
I don't know how much to take away from one
or two games, though, like that's McHale Bridges could do that,
he could probably even arguably like that might be better for
him than in og who I think you'd rather guard
up than down. I'm opening to that discussion. But like
duce McBride is your primary point of attack, defender is
the answer. So he's low key carrying a like a
lot of hopes on his shoulders because if he's inconsistent
on either end of the floor, we're not talking about
the names going five players deep, because if if your
seventh players trustworthy, we're getting into the precious that you
as the Mitchell Robinson if if, and when he's healthy,
which just by me saying that means he can't be
one of the seven tacks trust the most. So there's
a lot riding on duce McBride.
Speaker 2: I would just say too, there aren't a lot of
guys that are currently reserves that you would guarantee will
have multiple games this season where they play like forty
five minutes, Like what because who what if it's Bridges
that goes out or Og or brunts and god forbid,
like he's just gonna play a ton. So like in
terms like, there just aren't a lot of guys in
his role that are gonna be positioned to basically like
decide whether your team wins or loses on a given
night and if you're like, the crazy thing is you know,
so we know he can do that because he did
it last year. And I always cite this, like he
just had a million forty point game ring that stretch
where everybody was hurt or forty minute games. Sorry, the
problem was he averaged like seventeen points per game when
he was getting like forty three forty four. So like
he has to not just play a lot potentially, but
like he might need to be a little more productive,
you know, because like now he's just elevated in the rotation.
Speaker 1: Well, and it's I think even more so than the scoring,
it's can he do any of the secondary ball handling,
because all right, is Tyler Koleik ready as a rookie
And I just there's something about being too reliant on
campaign in the year twenty twenty four, twenty five. That's
I'm just a little iffy on that. So like and
also if he's able to do any of that, maybe
it changes the calculus on how the Knicks are looking
to make their next move, because there's no way this
team is done willing and dealing at this point. Everyone's
assumed that they're gonna target a secondary point guard or creator,
someone to run the offense. If Duce can do enough
of that in tandem with or in conjunction with having
Tyler Kollak, maybe campaign gives you more than you think.
Maybe you're a going to look for a more consistent
five that's more available than a Mitchell Robinson, or maybe
like this team could use some wing depth to Like
I we probably didn't even talk about this enough. The
top of this team is so good on paper. I'm
just how many players on this team do you trust?
Everyone wants to say, oh, seven or eight if Mitch
is healthy. The answer is six. And that's if you
include Duce McBride. The answer is six. And I don't
want to here. Oh well, Tyler cole pocom Dottie like
he looks ready.
Speaker 2: Nobody says. Nobody's saying they trust those guys.
Speaker 1: Oh, Dottie is like a thing among Nick's Twitter, which
is I think it's fine, but I don't like. They
think he's gonna be in the rotation when the Knicks
are at full strength. Now, maybe that's okay, but we
know that's good. We have a ton of history that
shows that rookies are not going to contribute at a
high level to should be contender. So that's we still
have to see how all these moves pan out. I'm
not saying the Knicks are gonna suck or mis expectations
or that they were necessarily overrated, but we need to
stop pretending like they have more than six guys that
you can legitimately truy Like I don't care about the
flashes of precious of Cheway. He's been all over the
place for the most part. And then Mitchell Robinson is
good when he plays.
Speaker 2: How excited are you for when the Knick signed Markel
Folts after.
Speaker 1: Campaign Oklahoma City Thunder, they were your team?
Speaker 2: Uh okay, so another team where you could go a
lot of different routes. We're skewing towards the star side
of things here. I'm going with Chet Holgren, and I
went with with him. I made this decision before he
out played Nicola jokicch in the opener. That's a little
bit of an exaggeration, but not much.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: This just on the theory that we don't know what
kind of star Chet Holmgren is going to end up being,
but he will be one, and so that just opens
up so many possibilities for just this year for example,
Like yeah, they the thunder gave eighty seven million dollars
to Isaiah Hartenstein. He's gonna play a big role once
he's healthy. I still think you might just decide that
chet Holmgren has the five. If he's gonna hold up defensively,
if he looks stronger, that's just gonna be the best
version of your team on a lot of nights. So
that will depend on him being you know, the shop blog.
He's a great defensive player. Can he do that as
a full time anchor against like the best bigs in
the league? Like so far, results signs points. Then we're
talking about a team that has had secondary playmaking concerns.
Oh it's Jayalen Willms is fine, he's gonna do it.
I think that's true. But you also might get a
whole lot of that from chet Holmgren just because he's
so much more than like he's He's not the shot blocking,
floor spacing big that like you think he is. He's
not just a knockdown three point shooter. If anything, that's
like a weak point right now. Just the three point
accuracy and the quickness with which he gets a shot off,
He'll put it on the deck and like make a play,
whether that's finishing, whether that's finding somebody. There's just so
many avenues for him to be just a just a
ridiculously important player for the Thunder and like at the
highest level, because the Thunder are going to try to
win a title this year and for however many years
after this. So I think we're talking about high level
stuff like he he his ability to hit whatever version
of his ceiling ends up being like the actual one,
just is what could elevate the thunderdoe point where it's
like it's a joke that we're thinking about anybody else
winning championships for a while.
Speaker 1: The and if anyone we record an entire segment on
Chad hool we're going pollow his performance against the Nuggets.
Go check it out on our YouTube channel if you
haven't already, and maybe just subscribe while you're there. The
thing that I think may him the right pick here
is that if you had to pick out a weakness
for Okac, it would be if you had to pick
out two, it'd be Okay, Well beyond Shay and j Dubb,
who are your best initiators of the offense, and then
it was their three point shooting that portrayed them. Chet
Hulgrin can be the anecdote to all those things. And
I honestly think just knowing the type of games that
Alex Caruso and Case and Wallace play, the only other
answer here might be Aaron Wiggins, and it's you know,
he showed some different type of moxy off the dribble
against the Nuggets. We've seen those Aaron Wiggins moments, but
he looks more comfortable than ever doing that. But if
you're trying to frame it through, I know Isaiah Hartenstein's here,
but he's not really gonna the three point shooting that
we saw in the playoffs. That's not Isaiah Hartstein's not
coming in to fix that. Maybe as a passer out
of the short role, Chetleman has the ability to make
it so that to me that the thunder are and
I mean this literally we use eleven of ten no
notes team like that's the Celtics right now. But you
coul still quibble the chrisofsporzingis health if chet hung Grin
is hitting through ease, and it's just the even the
version we saw against the Nuggets of what he did
inside the arc with his passing plus the defense. What
is the Thunder's weakness.
Speaker 2: That I mean youth, you've inexperience, like, which is just
like that's not really you know, you're you're not. That's
not the question you're asking.
Speaker 1: No, I mean I I but that's what you have
to like, that's what people had to cling to last
year too. Except so there's because there are we talk
about the Thunder and glowing terms because they are. There
are very few teams that are set up both financially,
it's not even both so functionally financially and then in
terms of assets of being able to roll this thing
over to run shit for the next however many years.
All these other teams feel like Boston has been here,
but they're kind of it feels like coming to the
end in the sense like there will still be a contenders,
but there might be some real turnover here. They've had
like their seven years where like, Okase he's on that
that's really fucking hard to do. That's why we talk
about them and the Celtics in glowing terms. But like
I don't even think I can fab the like how
good this team might be and for how long it
could be that good if chet Holmers just gonna actualize
his ceiling, which we both agree at this point is
top single digit player in the NBA. That's his ceiling.
I'm not saying he's gonna hit that outcome, but that
is on the table and that is bonkers. So I
think that was the right pick because of how much
like he has the ability to just make them teflon like,
I'm like, just go ahead, point to the Thunders we
spot like, what is it? Yeah, I have the Orlando
Magic and I went with someone who was about to
start one hundred and fifty million dollar extension next year,
and that's Jail and sucks. I have him as the
X factor because I think you could point to Okay,
he was one of them. He was probably their best
three point shooter last year when you look at volumet
efficiency wise, because only two of their players made one
hundred threes last year. He was one of them, and
he shot at a good clip. So you want that
to continue. But they've made very few changes offensively. Yes,
you added Kintabius called well Pope, but if you're banking
on ranking in the top half of offensive efficiency for
the first time since at the start of time, I
guess you kind of need Jaellen Suggs to be even better,
specifically in the half court. And I think through the preseason,
through their first game of the season, it still doesn't
look like they're gonna trust him with a ton of
methodical work. And I would like to see him pick
up his dribble less when he's kind of getting in
a lane or having to like guys around him develop.
But I do see the outline of a player that
can do more facilitation here, more table setting overall, and
he is like if Kevin Love was smaller or Nikoli
Jokich was smaller. He has the gall to throw those
outlet passes. And for a Magic team that I think
is built to get out in transition more than it does,
I view that element as an next factor as well.
And so even if you want to boil it down
to what type of table setting can he do out
of his drives which improved last year as well, you
need him to kind of stay this course, not just
because you invested in him, but I view as a
next factor in the sense, and I've said this before,
I'm not entirely certain that Franz Vogner is the second
most important player on this team. I have a case
for Jaalen sugg Ugs. I just made it. I don't
see the same level of facilitation, let alone defense, out
of Franz Wagner. And you have questions about Jalen suggs jumper,
I have questions about Froanz Wagner's jumper two. So I
like that's a discussion that might make him an X
factor this. I think this Orlando team, they've decided this
is our core between Suggs Wagner and then we know
Palo is gonna get paid. I think that's fine, but like,
you need Suggs to kind of okay, this guy needs
to hit if you're not planning on making any other
offensive substantial offensive changes. I don't want to hear about
Anthony Black. I just don't want to. Like, he might
be a good player, but you're not saddling the level.
You just paid Jalen Suggs one hundred and fifty million
dollars in an extension. That's quite a bit of money.
Even in the new cap era it's declining. I think
it was a smart deal for them to get some
of the higher expenditures out of the way and that
as Palo gets paid, it gets a little easier maneuver.
But like you, I think you need him to make
And maybe we wouldn't have said this last year, but
as both a score and a passer, you want him
to make another jump off of what he did like year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think if you're gonna go with
the offensive side, which you just should if you're talking
about Orlando, because that's where the growth needs to happen,
he's the pick because like you're just you paid him,
so now it's fair to ask, but you're asking him
to grow in ways that like it just you're not
sure he can do. And it's like it's necessary now
because you're fairly financially. They gave everybody new money over
the off season. They just extended everybody, everybody, and it's
like not to the point where it's like, oh, you know,
we're too expense Like you're basically in the sense of
like you're committed pretty clearly to like the guys that
are here, not in an inflexible way that you can't
trade him. In fact, like a lot of these numbers
are going to be very tradable because of the declining
structure and stuff. But like you're just asking sugs who
made the three point shooting leap to make leaps in
other offensive areas now and also still be like one
of the best defensive guards in the league. Whether he
can or can't do that is going to really have.
Just like will the Magic's offense be abovely average or not,
We'll just probably go back to that because Palell is
gonna be what he is, Like he provides a lot
of cover, but he was very good last year on offense,
and they're in the bottom ten, So like that's a
good one if you're going the other way. Just the
quick just the thought. And like we always talk about,
like how much of an impact can he really have
because he plays fifteen minutes a night, But like the
Magic's overall defensive numbers weren't, you know, mind blowing. They
were top ten, but barely in the minutes that Jonathan
Isaac was not on the floor last year and they
were just insanely better than everybody's when he was. And
so if you like, say he goes down, this is
we don't like to use the injury side of things
as an X factor, but he's kind of a unique
case because he's had so many like if he's not healthy,
then Orlando's greatest strength, you know, potentially could be the
best defense in the league. It's like, well now they're tenth, twelfth, whatever, like,
so then your offense really has to be better if
you're gonna sustain the spot in the East hierarchy that
they occupied last year. So that would be my other nomination,
just the do you get the fifteen minutes of Jonathan
Isaac every night or not?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a you could have gone with probably a
few different options here as well.
Speaker 2: You do Anthony Black, I know you disissed him, but
it's like, are you gonna or Jet Howard? Like are
either of you going to be anything?
Speaker 1: Jet Howard would be another one to where it's like
he provides a lot of what they need on this team.
I just after the extension it kind of see aed it.
I was on the fence with Jalens is he two
high end and we the problem is I'm so high
on Jalen Suggs. But once they gave him the money,
it was okay, like no, this is very clearly like
they've invested in him, like he is one of the dudes.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and he probably is like we're talking about
him as an X factor, but he's really good.
Speaker 1: I have the Philadelphia seventy six Ers, and there's probably
a bunch of different routes you could go because this
roster is so new outside of the Stars for the
most part. If you want to go with kJ Martin
because of the human trade excepter, who might actually play
by the way, fine, I went with Caleb Martin, another
Martin here, and I had this conversation with Kyle Nubeck
of Phly that I thought people were There was a
lot of kind of handwringing over the Sixers just don't
have like this premier stop around the perimeter and it's okay,
well they didn't have that. Who was that last year
for them? So you have Joel Embiid and like Paul
George and Kayla Martin are good enough, Kelly bred Junior
can do stuff on the ball. Kyle Lowry still just
has his moments. I mean, he'll be frustrating as hell,
but he still has his moments. My whole thing is
all right and beand's not gonna play a ton this
Like by a ton, I mean, is he gonna play
sixty five games? Pretty clearly not. No, is Paul George
gonna play in sixty five games. I have no fucking idea.
Probably not. Keith Martin's gonna be doing some really heavy
defensive lifting, because if you have Andre Drummond or yabou
Celli as your five, a lot of this stuff is
gonna need to happen from the outside in more so
than the inside out at that point. And it's different
when you're kind of sharing it in tandem with a
Paul George and you have Kyle Lowry and you can
move Kelly Oubray Junior around and even Eric Gordon's at
least long. But like when there's very clearly going to
be games plural, not just the beginning of the season,
but the middle of it, maybe the end of a
two at this rate, where you don't have either Paul
George or Joelle and Beid. There's just so much riding
on him. I don't We can get into the offense
and how he might need to be higher volumement points.
I don't fucking care. It is all about the defense
for me. That he needs to be probably the best
version or the near best version of himself defensively to
feel really good about the sixers at least up until
they do whatever they're gonna do with the trade. Thenline,
when Tary Easton is in Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh, coming off the bench, it looks like
which even though Nick Nurse is acknowledged he's one of
their five best players, it's like, I think you need
this guy out there to guard the other team's like
top threats, don't you don't you like that? Seems like
a strange call.
Speaker 1: So I get the call when you have Paul George
and Joel Embiide, right, But.
Speaker 2: When you don't get him in there, you want to get.
Speaker 1: Him into the rhythm of coming off the bench. So
I guess he's still gonna play a bunch. But I
think I thought he was incredibly important and it was
a good pickup. But like, imagine, think about this team
defensively right now, if they just didn't figure out how
to get Caleb Martin that wasn't a given.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, there'd be a lot of bigger questions for sure,
or Paul George would just have to be like five
years ago, Paul George defensive.
Speaker 1: Would you would you've gone with? Aside from the Joelle
and b Nie haha, anyone who's gonna be in the
comments with that? But would you've gone, was there like
anyone else that you would have picked off this roster?
Speaker 2: The only and I think he's too good, the only
Like there is an X factor element to Tyrese Maxi,
because like he's gonna go from being a third option
on a lot of nights to someone that needs to
take like thirty two shots, you know, like just depending
on who's out there with him or not.
Speaker 1: Right, and once he once they acquire Jonathan Kamingo, he
might need to be the fourth option, right, Yeah, who's
to say.
Speaker 2: I mean, probably asked for a trade that takes us
to the Phoenix Suns, which is my team. This is
when I threw out, like just kind of in the moment,
but I'm gonna defend it. So I'm going with the
rookie Ryan Dunn.
Speaker 1: And don't defend it to me because do you know
what what part of my predictions piece that I filed
the day of the season started, I predicted he would
make it all rookie team.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, okay, great, So I'll just get out of
the way. I mean, it's it's fairly straightforward, like to
his billing coming out of college, is this guy is
maybe the best defensive guy in the draft, like ready
to play, does everything but shoot, And then he comes
out in the preseason he shoots, and so now it's like, Okay,
is this guy just part is he? Do we need
Royce O'Neil anymore? Are we just gonna close every night
with Ryan dunne like that is that the plan? Probably not?
But if he's like we talk about rookies this way
all the time, if he's a positively impactful player as
a rookie for a team like this that's really trying
to win and you can use him laid in games
and feel really good about it, Like what a win
for a Sun's team that was just like I don't know,
They're defining feature is like inflexibility and like just can't
add anybody, Like yeah, they got tyas Jones and Monty
Morris that that's impressive on its own, but like to
go get a guy like this in the draft when
you're not going to be making a first round pick
for a while. His potential to just make different a
difference for this team is like it's enormous, all rookie,
it would be like what a win that would be
for the Sons if he was an all rookie level player.
Speaker 1: Do you know what the pathway is? It's the maybe
a scaled down version of what Derek Lively did last year,
which was contributed to it because Cason Wallace would be
a good analog there. Right To comes in plays within it,
plays his ass off on defense, which we know he
can do. And he looked by the way from their
first game against the Clippers right done for the minutes
that heason to play, looks like he might be ready defensively.
It all comes down to offense. I will say preseason
is preseason is preseason? Those threes I like, I understand
it's a small sample, but it's a little bit bad
we had in college. They didn't look like he was.
It was in rhythm. It's like it was just teams
are gonna give them to him, And so it becomes different.
What does that do to the spacing if they're gonna
be open if he's hitting them in rhythm and like,
defenses will have to start to guard him a little
bit more to at least open the floor for the
like he won't be a capslock floor space or I'm
not saying he's gonna be Marcus Smart where it's always
taking eight attempts of games and defenses even when they're
not going in are gonna react. But like if you're
hitting the threes that defense are giving you, where it's
not like Josha Kogi who's on this team, there's hesitation,
there's like a buffer internet wind up to it. If
you're just hitting them in rhythm with like a moderate
quick release, moderately quick release. Excuse me. That's the pathway
to him making it all rookie team. Now. Am I
sipping too much of the preseason kool aid? Probably? But
I think it's on the table.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what else do we have to go
on at this point? We got to be a little reactionary.
We got another West team for me here Portland Trail Blazers. Man,
I'm really concerned about how much I'm influenced by one game,
But here we are. It's Scoot Henderson did.
Speaker 1: Not start a year.
Speaker 2: That's the thing, right, Like what so? I mean I
get it, like Anthony Simon's maybe you're showcasing him to
trade him or maybe and not, there's no maybe he's
just a better player than Scoot Henderson. So start him
at the one. That's fine. Essentially they started Timani Kamara
at the two, I want to say, because it was
like an ultra big lineup with Danny Avdya loved Danny Avdia,
Jeremy Grant, and then Ayton was at center in the Blazers.
Oh so like Kamara is also a second year player
and sure his development matters, but it's like what don't
I mean, don't what are we doing? What is what
is Portland's plan if not to just see what Scoot
is and the fact that he's coming off the bench,
like I don't feel like that positions him for success better.
I guess you go against backups, but your supporting cast
is worse. Like I don't know, it's just a bad
sign to me that we're here now, like the greatest
point guard prospect since anyone ever is coming off the
bench in year two. So there's your downside for the
X factor. The upside is that just like he's still
athletically does some super impressive stuff, like there's low hanging fruit,
like just finish better at the basket, be more on balance,
Like there's still the potential still there. We can't just
ride it all the way off. So he's here just
because well two reasons. One, man the lows could be low,
and man the highs, though hope is dwindling, could still
be high. And two related to that is like where
are the Blazers in their rebuild if this guy ain't
it like that? That's I mean, talk about a franchise
crossroads like that. That's a big one. So that's that's
why he was a fairly easy pick for me here.
Speaker 1: Well, this is this is related to that. I just
the idea that and I know one of them's injured.
You don't have Donovan Klagen's Koot Henderson or Shane's Sharp
starting for you on opening night, all of whom were
drafted in the top Clayton was six, so the top
seven because it was Sharp five or seven.
Speaker 2: I think Sharp was. Uh, I'm gonna say top seven,
but might be five top seven. We'll say top seven
to be safe.
Speaker 1: Right, Like that's just a weird That's again I understand
that Sharpe understand that he's injured, but Scoot is not.
At this point, I don't. I had this conversation and
I respect the hell out of her. Tarabo and Biggs
when we were doing. He was picked seventh, by the way, sharp,
so that was good that we went with top seven.
Look us Paul Rudmeme enter it. I was having this discussion.
She was like, well, what's the harm in bringing him
off the bench? And I just I guess in theory,
conceptually there is no harm. But if he's supposed to
be the guy, like what are you doing? But if
you're if your goal is to make his job easier,
that's not gonna be his job moving forward to put
him in the job, especially this isn't a team by
the way, we're not talking about the Wizards necessarily, Like,
there are veterans around him, so you want to start
the veterans. Start the veterans around Scoop. That's how you
make his job easier in a role that he will
be in, or at least hopefully in a role that
he will be playing for the rest of his career.
Speaker 2: So there's again fair point, like why do we need
to throw him into the fire, Like, let's maybe if
you could make the case I suppose that coming off
the bench like is the better long term play. But
it's like why why this is no, this is the thing,
it's it's I'm gonna pivot here a little bit, and
I know I tune out if you want to. But
like when you have a rookie quarterback in football, it's
just like there's a there's a there's a difference of
opinion on like do you throw him into the fire
and it's like it's gonna be really hard, or do
you like protect him and play him behind some career
backup or whatever. It's like I think most people would
still stay throw him out there because like he's gonna
have to show you at some point he can deal
with adversity and like learn on the fly and just
like trial by fire all that stuff. See, that's how
I would do it. That's how I think a lot
of smart teams do it. So, like the only argument
you could make here is like when Aaron Rodgers was
coming up in Green Bay, Like, Okay, he was a
super high pick. We have Brett Farv. We're gonna and
its like was fading. But as a franchise legend, will
sit Aaron Rodgers until he's ready quote unquote Anthony Simons,
ain't Brett Farv. Like, so it's just like to have
that be the guy that's like in the way I
guess of Scoot starting Okay, say there's no harm, grant
that don't know that we agree. It's the signal you're sending.
It's like this guy isn't better than Anthony Simons who
were just gonna trade because he's not like he's a
decent starter. Like that's a problem based on like what
you sort of hoped and wanted Scoot to be and
like still could happen. It's just like the signs are
piling up that are suggesting it it's not gonna happen.
So X factor big time.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to add anything to that, all right.
Speaker 2: But that was a tough one. We love Scoots so
much in the draft, Uh.
Speaker 1: There was there, there was love for me and then infatuation.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just bought it all. I bought it all.
I just believed it.
Speaker 1: Uh you know, I don't mean we're we're supposed to
be on to the case. Who are you more confident
in moving forward, Jade and Ivy or Scoot Henderson.
Speaker 2: Probably Scoot just because I have seen less.
Speaker 1: You know, there's still a mystery box appeal to him,
and he's almost kind of oh is he just being
held back by incompetence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there's yeah, right, that's it's a perfect example
of like the less you know, the more optimistic you
can be. That that's where we're at. The Kings are next,
fairly straightforward. I went with Kean Ellis. I thought he
was going to be a starter. Kevin Herder started the opener.
I think Mike Brown like hinted that that might be
the case. I don't understand it. Uh, His perimeter defense
is critical to a team that has like nothing but
shock creators and only Keegan Murray as a plus defensive player.
So if you or trying to save DeMar Derozen Daron
Fox from tough matchups, like Ellis is just your guy.
He's proved it in big games like he just I
think he's guarded Steph Curry about as well as I've
seen anybody guard him in like high stakes postseason competition.
He I guess you could still have questions about his
viability as a three point shooter because the small samples,
but like everything we've seen is just like he can
do that. So I think in terms of like his
potential to balance out a King's roster, that over indexes
towards a certain type of player gives him just an
enormous capacity to like shape how good this team can be.
Just it's a scarcity thing, Like they're not getting what
Kean Ellis does from literally anyone else that's going to
play for them. So I mean it just to me,
it has to be him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't believe what do you play against the
timber Wood was only eleven minutes or something.
Speaker 2: That's just I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I don't understand it at all, and I'm sure that'll
be subject to change. I think Kevin Herders minutes might swing,
but that's something Again. They're another team that I think
you need time to monitor. But when you're looking at
kind of the four like the Monk, DeMar DeRozan, Kevin
herder Domas, Sabonis, the Aaron Fox of it all, like
one of those five players is like, at least their
role is gonna shift or they're gonna be traded, because
I don't think it's gonna be DeRos and Sabonas or
Fox Boiler Alert. But like Keon House needs to play
for what this team needs. And I also think like
until he proves, unless he proves, he's an offensive liability
if him is not. It's not just oh, he'll get
threes up and hit them, but like he's shown that
he could move with the ball on his hands too.
You know. Now, to be clear, you don't need him
to do that on this team, But if you're looking
for just someone who can make a decision other than
shoot off the catch, like he is someone who can
do that, and like he's.
Speaker 2: A fifth option, he'll be the fifth option almost all
the time he's on the floor, Like you're not, Like,
how bad do you need to be offensively to keep
that defense off the floor, which you need.
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if they're in a political crunch to
where it's, well, how are we gonna I don't think
they need to be Kevin Herder in that vein necessarily,
but if they're trying to showcase him for trade or
justify his pay grade at this point, but Kean Ellis can't.
There is not he can't. He's those minutes should have
been at least doubled, like he needs to be like
in the twenty plus range, I would say pretty easily,
and that might even be I don't even know if
that's enough.
Speaker 2: The case you make for hurder is that like even
though he's another offense first guy, like he can be
running around off the ball and create space in ways
like you know, Fox doesn't really Fox is on the ball.
Derozen never does that. Keegan Murray kind of is more
of a stand still guy, Like maybe that's it, but
it's just like, well, you gotta you're gonna have to
guard like I just I just don't know anyway, Yeah,
I mean the other thing you could do is like
there has to be a better So I was gonna say,
if you're in a pinch, it's well then those minutes
just have to come from Malik Monk.
Speaker 1: If you're in a status crunch and you need some
hurder out there. But you also know what you could
do is like maybe not play like Demarto Rowe's in
forty plus minutes, Well he doesn't need to play that much,
like right, why so especially what is he thirty four
thirty five? So there, I understand that there's it could
get tough to distribute the minutes, but it does feel
like there was some low hanging fruit that Mike Brown
could have like trimmed from the tree.
Speaker 2: Given nine of those minutes to Ellis and then we're
up to like a reasonable number, yeah.
Speaker 1: Or look closer to reasonable. Yeah, it's still you. I
love that. You just have to be on a run
right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well not for long. I have the spurs. Next.
This was hard. There's again it's like with with with
teams that have a lot of young guys and like
other than one person, like not a lot of stars
or not a lot of guys where it's like, oh,
could go this way, could go that way. I went
with Jeremy Sohan, And I think that's mostly just because
like I could see him filling several roles, like they've
obviously famously tried him in a lot of weird roles,
like the point guard thing didn't work. But just when
you have like such a theoretical variety of skills, I'm
always going to be interested in, like which one of
those end up sticking and making you valuable and like
defining the role you play. So that's really why he's here,
Like you know, he's gonna play hard, to hustle and
defend multiple positions, Like is he ever going to be
a reliable shooter? I don't know, Uh, can he facilitate
like just as a secondary guy I think so, just
like the size of the athleticism, the motor like give
him the ability to really make a difference. But then
the shooting questions and the positional questions and like ultimately,
how like how does he fit next to Wemby? Those
are the ones like we just don't really know yet.
There's a lot of other options here. I'm looking forward
to discussing a few more of them, but I just
kind of feel like there's enough breadth in his game
and there's enough unknowns still that he just kind of
felt like an X factor guy to me.
Speaker 1: No, I think I think you're right. The other pick
would be Devin Miselle if he's healthy. If you're viewing
it through the lens of who's the player that can
ensure like everyone that's on the Wemby Hype Traine, I
get it. But if they're really gonna party crash the
play in or playoff discussion, it's because Devin missel Is
emerges like, Oh, that guy's ready to be the second
best player on a good team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's sorry, Like is he is he like
a nice like offensive piece or is he like can
he be Bradley Beal like that? You know, something like
that Devin Booker type.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, exactly, But I think so hands the
right pick because you don't want to get yourself. I
know he's not making a ton of money, but you
don't want to be in what are a year six
of Keldon Johnson or whatever and not understand his long
term place on this team. And you just laid out
why we still don't understand because the fit is difficult,
and like, I don't know, he got beat a couple
of times. I know it's the MAVs, but like he
looked lost a couple times on defense against Dallas, and
you can kind of see the theory of him moving
off the ball, maybe boxing people out, fighting for rebounds
on offense. But the Spurs also don't have the requisite
spacing to capitalize on what he can do best away
from the ball right now, they don't have the record
spacing or three point volume out of their guys. So
it's he's right because I don't know what his and
I don't even know you would have to name a
team like that. Don't say like Boston or okayc because
they have five outs space and can fit anyone. I
don't know what team he would be a great fit
on right now. But the Spurs really need to figure
it out because this is year three for it. We
just talked about all these other year three players and
he's in that mix as well. All right, this is
still you, Toronto Raptors. I never put him up on
the screen front anyone watching on YouTube. I apologize, but
we're onto the Toronto Raptors, which is actually my team
I went with. I thought about RJ Barrett here, and
like the Emmanuel Quickly injury, like that certainly factors into it.
I hope he went with Grady Dick because I think
this team needs like another because Scottie Barnes is he's
still up and coming, but like now you've given him
his extension, but you want you're in this stage where
it's all right, everyone's on their second or third contract
or they've signed it. At least who's like the prospect
on this team, and it's him. I guess you could
go with Jamal shd or Jacobe Walter if you want to.
I'm inclined to go with Graandy Dick instead. And also,
this team still needs like shooting. I don't like you
could trust that r J. Barrett will continue to shoot
as well as he has since arriving in Toronto. Okay, fine,
but also in the intern if you're worried about the
availability of Emmanuel Quickly and even even RJ barret him
so well. He's just so important for the motion shooting
he provides. I think he's I said this last season,
there's more on ball work for him to plum where
I don't think you need him to initiate stuff, but
like he will get moving inside the arc, attack closeouts.
And I think because of his size, he could be
someone who's not a negative defender. Like he's in the
right spots. He probably still needs to get a little
bit stronger. And so what what slot can you play
him at? I think could be a bunch of different ones.
There could be lineups. So you want to go ultra huge,
Is he like kind of your two or something? If
Emmanuel Quickly's not on the floor, but like you can
play him, I would say pretty easily alongside Scotti, RJ
and Quickly and then insert big or whatever. So and
if you're looking for kind of the finishing piece of
what's the best lineup for this team? I think it's
a healthy RJ and Scottie and IQ, plus probably Yaka Pertle.
But if you want to talk about a different big
man setup and it's okay, well, who's like the best
fifth member who could optimize those four? I think it's
Grady Dick. I don't know, like I'm not holding out
hope for Davion Mitchell or Jamal Shad or even Jakobe
Walter who's better on ball off it to do it. So,
I mean, the answer is obviously Chris Bouchet, who I've
just glossed over, But I think it's it's Dick just
for the pressure that he could put on defenses with
his shooting, but also some of the stuff he can
do on the ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it just has to be him. Like
you could kind of contort and say, well it's Quickly
because can he be actually a top fifteen starting point
guard or did they just give a bunch of money
to a guy who should be a backup.
Speaker 1: Still, you know, he's an X factor for every single
team that has to deal with extension negotiations for guys,
because the whole thing we've seen is like they saw
Manuel Quickly's deal and that's what they wanted, and then
what does Jalen Johnson get one hundred and fifty million,
like kind of in line with what Quickly ends up getting,
so that he's an X factor if you're if you're
another team's run offense.
Speaker 2: That's so strange the guys that end up being like
the point of comparison for for sal like there's a
I'm trying to think of there, like what was it,
like Evan Turner or like Alan Krab Like certain guys
are just like, well he got this, or like Tima
fay mos gob remember that, I was like, well he
got sixty million or whatever it was.
Speaker 1: I got to say, Quickly's deals should not be viewed
in the same terms as any of the players that.
Speaker 2: You just no, no, no, no, but it is. It is
a weird like that's our baseline. Now, that's just we've
established that strange. I got the Utah Jazz coming up next,
I'll say they're my Utah Jazz, but I have selected
your Taylor Hendrix. Uh. And that is because the profile
of Taylor Hendrix were he to like sort of actualize
what we since the draft have thought he could be,
is that of a like floor stretching, big forward that
can do something off the dribble, block shots, defend on
the ball, all this stuff. And if you have that
guy as the Utah Jazz, I think to a greater
extent than you got with someone like Keyante George, who
we like but is like, I don't know, I feel
like I understand the type of player George is gonna
be and it doesn't feel like the superstar alpha ball
handler like he'll be good, might be a quality starter.
The Hendrix archetype is one that's like, oh God, this
guy right and and we've seen so little, like got
some starts, got some minutes down the stretch last year,
put put whatever like a predictive quality you would like
on that Utah had packed it in at that point.
But just if he's something, if he's anything close to
what like the tools suggest and what like, had a
lot of draft analysts high on him, then Utah's sort
of overall outlook is pretty different because it's like, all right,
we have him, we have marking in. I guess, we
have Kessler. We'll see if they decide that he's a
piece of the future or not. But and Cody Williams
is another guy we could choose, but we just have
less than zero information on him because even when he plays,
he doesn't shoot. Hendricks is just the guy to me
because he he's like the level raiser or the like,
oh shit, he's not what do we do now, Like
we've we've were this year three of our like half
assed rebuild and we just don't have a cornerstone guy
like Hendricks. It's it's a big ask. I don't know
that he has it, but like he still might because
it's too early to just foreclose on that.
Speaker 1: I think Cody Williams is more likely to be that guy.
But the problem with him, and you can get it's
in the same vein as Hendricks. But Hendrick isn't necessarily
supposed to be that guy. Is Cody Wynns could just
be too passive. It's just like, oh, he's not going
to be assertive enough in situations. I like to tell
Hendricks pick I think he's he's already a defensive monster
to me, I'd like to see him. I know some
of this can be overshadowed by if he's playing alongside
Larry Markinen, Anna Walker Kessler or another big but like he
needs to I'd like to see him have more of
a presence on the glass too. Especially, they're not gonna
excorse four game too much. But that archetype of can defend.
Basically anyone will hit threes and can do a little
bit of things inside the arc. Will they give him
the opportunity to But to have someone like him when
you can't guarantee there'll be minutes where he's your primary screener,
but he can still be effective on offense, huge deal.
I think he's even if he's not the cornerstone, this
is someone who's just like I did say, do you
remember last year when I said he's gonna be better
than Jaron Jackson Junior. Gonna walk that back a little bit,
but the theory of him on defense like that is
still very much like he could. And I think there's
even more like you need to stand still like vertical
like backline rim protected, like he could do that stuff
in addition to everything else the Jazz have him doing
right now.
Speaker 2: That's the thing, like you know, if I guess I
made it like such a binary thing, like he'll reach
this crazy ceiling or he won't. Like if he gets
eighty percent of the way there, he's suddenly like one
of the most scalable like three and d players around
that everybody wants, you know, like there but or or
He's just not any of that because we you know,
and that's the reason he hasn't gotten a lot of tick.
Speaker 1: I will say, though, I would like to see him
get more burn with that. I don't need him to
like initiate picking rolls and I don't even necessarily want
to see himacilitate out the post. I want to see
him drive more. And if you have to cut down
the minutes of a I mean, con Sexton doesn't even
seem like he's gonna he never plays a ton, but
like if you've got to start trading people or like
hey Keyantay George, play off the ball a little bit
or something. I just want to see. Now's the time
to try this stuff out of my Why not our
final team? We did it a little over two hours, Grant,
look at us?
Speaker 2: Impressive.
Speaker 1: I pick who would you gone with? With the Washington
You know who I picked? Would you have picked someone different?
Speaker 2: I so a week ago I would have just said
blall cool, But as of today, I would have gone
with who you went with because it's even more of
a mystery box.
Speaker 1: The reason I didn't pick balal Is because I'm just
so certain he's gonna be good. And by the way
I would I mean, the Wizards are paying him a
lot of money, so I'm not gonna frame it that way.
But I want to see just a fucking shoot. Man.
He looks so good on the ball. I don't want
to see you're taking two shots in a game on
this Wizard like. He looks so much more confident handling
the ball, so not always pretty. He threw some nifty
passes in that game, and we've seen hints of it
last year. I'm convinced. I know he's gonna be He
looks stronger defensively. I think he's gonna be I don't
know if he's gonna be a star, but I think
he's gonna be a really good player. I really do
think there's more to him on the offensive end than
people kind of understand. But this other player fits that
bill as well. He Shawn George shout out Matt Maderno
for turning him on to me before we did the
Wizards Look Ahead is when I kind of dove into him.
I still am floored based off what I saw in
preseason and the first game of the season, there's like
on ball rhythms to this dude, Grant, like put the
ball in his hands, let him create. I fucking he's
going to work defensively, has nice positional size there. I
think the three point shot is fine, and so is
a fail safe of just oh, he'll be a three
and D option for a team that's probably not gonna
play much defense anyway. But now there's another one where
it's okay. I don't know if any of these guys
that they have, even Bub Carrington included, I don't know
if they have their floor general of the future. They
just might have a bunch of nifty secondary ball I'm
not saying Keishan George is meant to be a primary option.
I'll make that clear. Yeah, but you throw him a
ball screen. He's making shit happen as both the passer
and like even a score. My god, he's gonna I
predicted he was gonna make it all rookie team, and
that seems to me more bankable, probably owe to opportunity,
than my Ryan Dunn prediction. I think I will be
kind of shocked if he doesn't make it all rookie
team this year.
Speaker 2: He's like Kolibali is so if you're in a situation
like the Wizards are, Kolibali is like the you know
kind of exactly what you want of like oh my god,
like what is this guy? And then but George is like,
because he's now a year later down the pipeline, still
he's even newer and like shinier, but like more of
a surprise because coolbally sort of like he exceeded expectations.
But it was like, this guy's a raw like good athlete,
like we'll just see. But George was like, I don't
feel like George had any of that like put like
crazy potential attached to him. And then to have like anyway,
the shorts, the short story of it is like Wizards
fans are not lucky in the macro sense, but but
are but are lucky to have like another guy like
this where it's gonna be a rough year and you
can just sort of enjoy the progress and like the
surprising like oh my god, this guy's good now like
kind of vibes to it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, my my biggest concern for him should also
be the simples, which is, okay, is he gonna hit
and take enough of threes? Yeah, and that's like, I
think he's gonna take them. Is he gonna hit them
at a high enough clip? I'm gonna you know, I
think he. I don't see anything that's like mechanically wrong
from my idiotic perspective of it. But the fact that
that's what I'm focusing on, rather than well, what would
you look like defensively? Or oh, can he actually do
something on the ball? I think he says a lot
about his potential.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, we did it.
Speaker 1: Would you like to take us out of here? If
I would love to take.
Speaker 2: Us out, Dan, You're not an X factor to me
or a known commodity, just to superstar getting helping us
get through this in about two hours. Impressive. Thanks everybody
for listening, for watching as usual. Please, I don't know
if Dan said it at the top, but you should
just hear it in your brain coming through in his voice.
I can hear it right now. Rate review, subscribe, Make
sure if you're watching this on YouTube, leave a comment.
We appreciate that helps the algorithm.
Speaker 1: Love us. Who's your biggest X factor? We said it
at the beginning. What do they call that? A CTA
call to action? Let us know your single biggest X
Factor or the NBA season in the comment, because.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's on the assumption we didn't get all
of these correct, which I'm not willing to accept. But yeah,
give us, you know, in case we need some fallback. Yeah,
get involved. Join our discord links for that in YouTube
and podcast description. Tell your friends, tell your enemies to
shout out Franklin Can apologies joke,