Speaker 1: You're listening to a classic edition of the Unknown Origins
Radio show here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network.
Speaker 2: Hi, this is barniefas Jerald from GHOS Hunters International, and
you're listening to Unknown Origins Radio.
Speaker 3: We live in a world filled with the unknown. Ghosts
and spirits wander through our physical existence. Unknown creatures lurk
and the shadows, and strange lights and craft dominate our skies.
Credible eyewitnesses are convinced these things are real, yet modern
science refuses to acknowledge their existence. So it's up to
individual researchers to search for the truth. Welcome to Unknown
Origins Radio.
Speaker 1: Good evening, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Unknown
Origins Radio where we talk about everything having to do
with the strange and paranormal. I'm your host, Mark Johnson
and joining me as our co host Lauren de Pinto.
How are you doing tonight, Lauren?
Speaker 4: I'm doing really really well.
Speaker 5: Mark.
Speaker 4: What's going on?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Well, despite the fact that you know, I hate Skype,
I hate it with a passion and like our weather
as our guest who will be introducing here soon pointed
out to me that we do everything right. We do
a sound check, we test everything, and then all heck
breaks loose with you know, Skype not behaving. But you
know what, better late than never. We're here on the
air tonight. I just want to point out for everyone
who's listening, please be sure if you're listening live right now,
you can go to our live chat room and participate
with us during the show. Well, we could probably even
try to squeeze in some questions from the chat room
for our guests later on in the show. Just go
to Unknown Origins Radio dot com and click on the
link that says listen and chat live, and you can
come into our chat room and we try to have
a fun time there during the show.
Speaker 4: We do. It's a lot of fun. I love that
new setup. Did a good job.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you, Pat myself on the back thereat.
Speaker 4: Now. I don't know if we're going to go right
into speaking with Chase, but I wanted to kind of
bring up really quick that that airline, that that airplane
that's missing about that, Yes, the Malaysian Airline.
Speaker 5: Yeah I believe it was terrorism.
Speaker 4: Oh I think so too.
Speaker 1: You know, they have those two guys that had stolen passports.
And once I heard that, I go that's it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, but they said that in the news that
that was happening. That seems to happen on a frequent basis,
where people you know, coming to with stolen passports and
that they have explosives, so that's that's a bit bizarre.
They also said that five people checked in but didn't
board the flight, so there's a lot of you know,
question marks surrounding this, especially where is the airplane. You know,
they have so many people scouring the ocean.
Speaker 1: Well, if the airplane, if it exploded, it might have
disintegrated and then those pieces hit the ocean and sink
and then that's it. That's true, So who knows. It's
a shame. This is unfortunately the world we live in.
I don't know what the hell happened to it. I'm
ready to get off. You know, maybe we can talk
to our guest tonight who is a ufologist and see
if you know, if she knows anybody, we can.
Speaker 5: Hit a ride. You know, I'm ready to get out
of here.
Speaker 1: But I also want to mention, you know, you heard
our promo at the beginning of the show. We have
Phenomicon coming up in literally a month from today.
Speaker 4: Well, for me, it would be a month from yesterday.
But yes, yes, well yeah.
Speaker 1: Well we're arriving a month, we're arriving the night before.
But yet it's in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, April tenth through the
thirteenth at the Eisenhower Hotel and so you can get
your tickets at Phenomiconcentral dot com and it's a great
lineup of people, and Lauren and I of course are
going to be there. We'll be there representing Unknown Origins
Radio and almost I'm also going to be there. I'm
going to be doing my talk on new theories and
the paranormal and uh, you'll also be selling books with
our publishing company, glannett Tie Real happy to announce that
we have released, as of today, the new updated version
of The Psychic Spy by Irene Allen Block. We've got
a fancy new cover for it. Looks really slick and
really really proud of this book. So if you want
to get your copies of that book live and maybe
even have it signed, we can. We'll be selling them
there at Gettysburg and also on our website Glannetie dot com.
And uh, and then we'll be also having our new book,
my first book mine, not mine, my co writhing of
a novel that will be out at the end of
the month, Demon's Dwell book One the Tower, nice paranormal
you know mystery. Yes, yes, that's that's going to be
a good book.
Speaker 5: I can't wait to talk more about that one the time. Come. So,
got a lot. We're gonna be busy this next month.
We got a lot coming up.
Speaker 1: So with that said, let's go ahead and get into
our show. We have a great guest tonight. Our guest
is a longtime friend of ours. We used to be
when we.
Speaker 5: Were on K g Ray.
Speaker 1: She also had a show there called Project White Paper,
and another show that she currently also co hosts called
Encounters with a lineup of other great ufologists, Race Hobbes,
our great friend, Race and Richard Dole and Mac maloney.
So we're really excited to welcome Chase Klotsky to the
program tonight.
Speaker 5: How are you tonight, Chase.
Speaker 2: I am so happy to be here tonight with you, guys.
I love visiting Dark Matter Radio and Unknown Origins of course.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, welcome.
Speaker 1: Well, we're glad to have you, and I invited you
not only because you know we would love talking to you.
You're such a great person and you do a lot
of great adventures. And the one specifically that you recently
went on, which is a subject very dear to my heart.
I'm fascinated with this is you took a trip down
to South America, and I was wondering if you could
start by telling us what prompted that trip and what
were you hoping to get out of it.
Speaker 2: Well, the trip was prompted probably by most definitely, not
probably definitely La Marzouli and La and Richard Shaw are
most famous for doing. It's a documentary series called Watchers,
and they're killing it out here. These guys have presented
more physical and trace evidence into the UFO phenomena as
well as many others. They discuss everything from the shroud
of tour into the Bible code, prophecies, paranormal black eyed children,
if it's unknown, they're covering it in this documentary that
they've produced and it's mega successful. Well, La has been
on the trail for the Nephileam, which he believes is
going to be the great deception with the UFO phenomena,
and he has been researching giants and these elongated skulls
and he had run across a video from Brian Forrester
down in Peru, Paracas, Peru, and he just with him.
He just had to get down there and visit some
of these megalithic structures, the pyramids, and to examine hands
on the skulls. So Watchers six actually premiered the first investigation.
So they did a little preliminary work on this and
some results, very very preliminary results came forward just as
we returned back, because we knew at this point we
had to get back to Peru and finish a lot
more of this investigation. We did everything from Inca stones
to the skulls, pyramids. Mommies, Oh my gosh, you guys,
we worked hard. We were there about three and a
half weeks.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, what didn't you do?
Speaker 2: Sleep?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean what I love is and I recommend
if anybody is on Facebook and you go to Chase's
Facebook page the pictures that you were posting on your
trip and when you got back, you're hitting all those
spots I want to go visit, you know, the Nasca planes, Tiawanako, Puma, Punka,
all these.
Speaker 2: Great Yeah, it was. It was a dream in so
many ways to be standing in front of some of
these structures that you know, I've seen on TV and
read about for decades, and it was shocking. And there
were a few little things Mark and Lauren that you know,
like the big h blocks at Puma Puku. I don't
know why, but in my head they were huge and
I get up to them and it kind of reminded
me of that movie's final tap where they lowered down
the Yeah it's his dinky little idol because they're only
about three feet tall, is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 5: I thought they were like five feet tall or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, And so there was a few little,
you know, things like that, but honestly, for the most part,
things are much more epic in person, and it was
an extraordinary trip, it really was.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 1: You know, there's so much mystery surrounding these sites down
there from the NOSCA lines really made famous by Eric
von Donikan and his original book Chariots of the Gods.
And you know, while I disagreed with his original conclusions,
you know, they that and the documentary and his books
thought they might have been landing fields, but really, you know,
more research shows that it could possibly be some type
of MA system because a lot of the lines. If
you follow them, they'll lead directly to other sites around
the world. I mean, what do you what are your
thoughts of it now that you had a chance to
go and see it for yourself in person.
Speaker 2: Well, and they're still discovering more and more of these
earth geometrics. They're they're finding some of these lines that
look more like crop circles. They're they're mathematical, they're sacred geometry.
They're intriguing as heck. And you know, like you, I
believe that the theory's grown since the initial discovery or
reveal from Eric Vondanagan. But you know, thank goodness that
we have, you know, people out here, brave, brave researchers
and academics that aren't afraid to go against the grain
and stand up and say, wait a minute, okay, what
if they are? And I think that really started. It's
how I got started in ufology. I read his book
and I thought, I've never heard questions like this. I've
never heard anyone question and something from a Bible or
something academia has declared. So I thought it was brilliant.
And but yes, you're absolutely right saying the theory has grown.
We have a lot more resources these days than you know,
back in the sixties.
Speaker 1: And you know, that's the one thing about his book
that a lot of people don't realize. Everybody, you know,
especially a lot of his naysayers and skeptics, go, oh yeah, well,
he said, this is what happened, and this is what happened.
If you read the book, it's not He asked a question,
and he lists these questions like could this have been
a possibility?
Speaker 5: Why is this here? Why?
Speaker 1: You know, he asked a lot of why questions or
what ifs, and just postulated these theories and ideas. He
wasn't saying, yes, this is this was definitely aliens. You know,
it's not like Georgia Suklos going, I'm not saying it
was aliens, but it was aliens.
Speaker 2: I love that guy, and.
Speaker 1: It's it's there was a about a year or so ago,
I saw some documentary that tried to explain the Nasca
lines as religious ceremonies, that the Native Peruvian Indians would
walk these lines as paths as part of their spiritual
you know, ceremonies. And I'm watching this program and I
just really wanted to find a large rock and throw
it through my TV and go, how stupid do you
guys have to be considering serious?
Speaker 2: Except honestly when you're talking. One of the best things
that we did was we weren't the tourist. We were
with Brian Forrester and he, you know, his wife Irene
was our interpreter and she lives there. So it is Brian.
He's lived there for four years. And you know, so
we took the unbeaten path, which wasn't always the safest thing.
We had a couple you know, hair raising events, but truthfully,
they that's what the Nasca natives say. They say that
these were more ritualistic back in the day. It's it's
bizarre and they know it. But we were flying over
the Nasca lines and uh La asked the pilot, you know,
what do you think, who do you think did these?
And he had the you know, same party line. They
they don't say aliens did them or you know, they
just it's just really fun to listen to how different
their interpretation of a lot of these humongous, humongous discoveries
and what the Peruvian people think of them.
Speaker 1: Well, see, I'm I've been leaning towards a lot of
these theories, especially a lot of these structures down there
in South America, in Peru and nearby where's where was
Puma Punku located?
Speaker 2: Again, that's in Bolivia, Bolivia.
Speaker 5: Okay, it's right over in Bolivia.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm of the opinion not so much
of as these days. I do believe human beings did
the a lot of these structures and maybe even carved
the Nosca lines.
Speaker 5: But it's I leaned.
Speaker 1: Towards the fact that I think that there were way
more advanced human civilizations back then that were older than
we think than what science would tell us. That maybe
we used to be a hell of a lot smarter
and had higher levels of technology. And let's face it,
if there's a natural disaster or we destroy ourselves, hello,
Putin and Obama and all you guys ready to go
to war that you know, and we all have to
start over again.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you hear you hear of the wars that they
talk about.
Speaker 1: In the UH, the the Indian Epics and the you
know where they talk about what sounds like nuclear war
and flying machines and missiles and and you know, who's
to say that there weren't some of these big wars
or catastrophes that kind of re booted us as a
race and we had to start all over again.
Speaker 2: That's exactly the conclusion most of us are coming to
when you visit and examine these sites. First of all,
these are not tombs, you know where the royals were buried,
and some of these pyramids, these were functional buildings of mechanics.
When you're going through Pumapuku and you're finding the architecture
that today we cannot duplicate without serious attention and the
most advanced engineering methodologies and planning, and then let's bring
in the big trucks, you have to come to that conclusion.
Either we were helped by higher intelligence or you're exactly
right that there was an exance civilization that we just
haven't discovered yet, because it is very apparent. The other
thing that I was personally shocked and was, you know,
working with la on a theory, is literally when you there,
the first thing you noticed are some of these structures
are thrown. They're literally it looks like somebody put this
big piece of dynamite or something and just blasted these
things all over the place. Because that's exactly what we found,
and so you kind of it makes you wonder, and
you have to examine alternative theories. You can't just say
aliens did it and that's it, you know, And that's
what we do with LA. I was kicking and screaming,
you guys, because I'm a eufologist. I'm nuts and bolts evidence,
you know. I've been doing this for twenty years, and
now I'm with a group that's saying, we don't think
they're you know, aliens from polates Chase. We think that
these are the fallen angels that are documented in ancient
texts going way back in many religions. We know giants
were here on the earth, and we believe that this
is the nepheline and the technology of these fallen angels,
which are eternal beings with a massive amount of technological
knowledge and a universal view that were cast down. Now,
when you have that kind of knowledge, but you know,
you're kind of stuck here. I kind of think of
like a seal team being sent to a very remote island.
They would still try to, you know, develop calm and
you know, communications and things like this. You know, a shelter,
places to organize and meet and plan, but they'd have
to use the tools that were available, so versus the big,
you know, fancy buildings that they used to Now with
all the air conditioning, they may just have to use
a grass hut for a while, but it still probably
would offer more intelligence than you know, the natives that
are you know, soon to come after well.
Speaker 1: You know, in these you mentioned these old stories of
the of the the watchers, the Nephelam fallen angels. And again,
are we talking about other races of beings coming from
the stars or are we talking about again possibly more
advanced forms of human beings possibly you know, maybe there
or were isolated pockets of more advanced civilizations and the
more primitive civilizations, and who knows if they've overlapped, if
there was some types of experiments or cross breeding. I mean,
there is the theories that you know, alien races played
a hand in creating the human race to begin with.
Maybe it's a mixture of both. I don't know. I
do seem to want to lean more towards most of
what we're finding to possibly be we are the ones
who created it, but we certainly had a lot different
knowledge back then.
Speaker 2: You have to follow the evidence. That's the tough part.
And when you listen to some of the theories, and
of course some of the greats that came before is
like Jay Allen Heinich and Jacques Vala and David Jacobs,
you know, in his over thirty years of studying examining,
you know, regression, which I'm not a big fan of,
but you know, all the study that he's done with
the abductees and the information he's gathered, they've all come
to pretty much a few conclusions that are similar to
each other, which is the same one I have. One,
They're probably not coming here on a full tank of
gas and a red bull, so they're most likely dimensional
and using jump technology and quantum physics type advancement to
get here. And number two, whatever is the agenda isn't
good for us. Jay Allen, Heinek, Jacques Valais, they all
agreed they're most likely demonic beings that are described in
our Bible. That these are a race of beings. You know,
if you kind of get take out that image that
we've been given of these angels as spirits with wings
and all this, and realize that this is probably you know,
flesh and blood species that is much different than humans.
Of course they are they be human, you know that
they were cast down. They were sent down here, they
had sex with human women, created a hybrid race. We
know that typically hybrids cannot reproduce. Oh my gosh, we're
just falling into a rabbit hole, aren't we, guys? Right?
Speaker 4: That's great, keep going, it's.
Speaker 2: It's you know, these are theories that we have to
seriously look into with the same tenacity and vigor as
we have the nuts and bolts of community, because truthfully,
in fifty years in that community, we have no more
evidence than what is being presented through the you know,
angelic theory. It's just amazing stuff. And I'm kicking and
screaming you guys, because I do not want it to
be there. But even my my evidence, the things I've seen,
the conclusions I have to come with as we're discovering
DNA samples and seeing these things, I'm falling into camp,
kicking and screaming.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I have.
Speaker 1: In the last ten years or so, I've had my
beliefs drastically changed from being just a paranormal researcher looking
at ghosts to totally expanding my paradigm and my worldview
on all subjects, and instead of staying with the tried
and true tradition of what tradition tells us these things are.
I've broken away from the pack, so to speak. And
again I'm speaking for me, not for Lauren, because you know,
even Lauren and I we sometimes go at it in debating.
But for again, for me personal I lean towards multi
dimensional or interdimensional. For most of these I don't follow. Again,
this is my opinion. I don't follow with the whole
demonic angelic thing. I think that's ways of that we've
learned to describe certain things, and we're still trying to
kind of look at the religious aspects of it. When
if you really look at nature, if you really look
in what surrounds us, some things may look good from
one angle, some things may look evil from another angle.
I mean, you have a nice kiddy cat at home,
and he's all sweet, and this is what happened with
one of my cats last night, all sweet and cuddling prairie.
But you know what, he walks in from the garage
and he has a mouse in a hey and he
kills it.
Speaker 5: And so what is he? Is he bad? Or is
he good? You know, it's he just is.
Speaker 1: And so I think we're a little too quick to
want to point at things and say they're not good
for us, they're bad for us, or they have an
evil agenda. But we may not be able to comprehend
that agenda, because if they are more advanced than us,
then we may not be able to understand what their
reasoning really is.
Speaker 2: I agree, it's why we're on the trail. It's this
is still such anomalous, you know theory. There's so much
going on out there, and you know, whether you're a
paranormal investigator, you know, looking for strange creatures, these reports
are epic. They are almost epidemic levels. They're not going away.
They're reported by honest, for credible people. We could, you know,
talk about the astronauts and the police officers and military,
all the people that were known and told to trust.
But let's not forget the little Christian grandmother you know
that has this little farm and you know the backwoods
of Tennessee, that wouldn't lie to save her life telling
you about a UFO event. There's just way too much
going on. It's not slowing down, it is burgeoning. And
thank goodness that we have a little behind us, because wow,
don't we love our jobs?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just waited they paid better.
Speaker 2: Yeah for real, Well, you know, most of our loves,
you know, if my husband loves golf, and that costs
us a fortune every time he likes to go as
often as he does. So I guess our passions are
supposed to hit a little harder than maybe a work living.
I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, if we could find a way
to make it pay without seeming too opportunistic, because I
would do this full time if I could, because that's
how passionate I am about the subjects.
Speaker 5: That's my passion.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 5: It is, say, if you all want to pay me
to do this, feel free pay me.
Speaker 4: That'd be nice.
Speaker 1: But you know it's also for me, it's really important
to try to get to the truth and find out
what that is. And you know, there were a lot
of concepts I thought, Well, I remember originally reading, you know,
when Whitley Strieber first came out with Communion and then
his follow up, Transformation, which I thought really was a
me even better book because it really delved into more
personal of the contact experience for him. And I remember
there was one thing he mentioned in his book about
they took him on the craft, and they opened up
this drawer and in the drawer were what looked there
were alien bodies stacked in the drawer that looked like
they were dead, but they were laying there. And he
said that these beings seemed really happy to show this
to him. And it started that incident alone started me
thinking about the fact that could these beings, or these
what we see as the grays or other races of
these aliens being multi dimensional or maybe what would even
consider existing on a spiritual existence. The way that they
interact in this world is to have these temporary bodies
like I like to call meat suits, yes, to come
in and they're able to inhabit and work and interact
with us in this environment.
Speaker 2: Well, and let's not forget in his original book, and
I am quoting, I felt an absolutely indescribable sense of menace.
It was hell on earth to be there in the
presence of these entities. And yet I couldn't move, I
couldn't cry out, I couldn't get away. I lay as
still as death, suffering inner agonies. Whatever there seemed to be,
whatever was there, seemed so monstrously ugly, so filthy and
dark and sinister. Of course, they were demons, they had
to be and they were here and I could not
get away. That was in his book Communion. So I
often wonder when we're examining, you know, the full reports
of abductees, their initial thoughts and reports, when they first
started realizing abduction was happening, and then you see many
of them take on a progression of almost Stockholm syndrome
where they start identifying with the beings and then pretty
soon well, they're so lucky it was a good thing,
and there's they're here for humanity. Well I don't know
about you, but to me, the whole thing sounds like
a deception and brainwashing. And it's human nature to have
kind of that syndrome where you start identifying with something.
But in most cases these abductee reports are horrific, and
they're terrified and they were taken against their will. That
is not a good thing.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of if in the work of doctor
John Mack and in Dolores Dolorus Cannon, who both using
hypnotherapy or hypnosis hypnotic regression to take these experiences back
and talking about their experiences.
Speaker 5: There are a lot of these.
Speaker 1: People and again you mentioned that you have an issue
with the whole hypnotherapy.
Speaker 5: Angle of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a fan.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you.
Speaker 1: Know, it's not a proven fact what these people what
they're coming up with. There are problems with it. But
a lot of people who were interviewed by doctor mac
and also by Dolores Cannon, who talk about the fact
that they agreed to this either on a subconscious level,
spiritual level, or before they even came into this lifetime.
And you know, whether that is a false memory being
imprinted to regurgitate later to justify it, or whether it's real.
We have no idea, you know, are these things is
what we would what we consider to be evil and
menacing be actually just something that's beyond our comprehension. And
that's how the only way we can interpret it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I know that there's a lot of truth
to that. And as you know, technology advances, and you know,
our computers you help us get smarter, and we're faster,
and information is at our fingertips at lightning speed. You know,
I believe we're getting closer to the answers we've never
experienced as a human race, a technological bo and advancement
that affected all of humanity ever as fast as we
have in the last what seventy five years. It's incredible
pace that we're on, and I do believe that we're,
you know, gearing up for a crescendo. Whatever that is.
It could be disclosure, because our government's not going to
give us that information. It is going to take an
event that they cannot explain away. It is coming. I
believe disclosure is on its way, and I'm not sure
that we're actually going to like the answer whatever that
may be.
Speaker 4: And are we ready for it, really well.
Speaker 1: That's going to be a big This is where I
don't think disclosure is ever going to come up.
Speaker 5: I don't think, you know, it would even.
Speaker 1: If aliens landed on the White House lawn, they'd find
a way to tell you that it was our imaginations,
because I think they've got their hands on technology and
they know things. They absolutely do not want a sheep
all to know about it, and they're going to deny, deny, deny, deny.
And even if other governments like the UK or Canada
or France or any of them come out and disclose
UFO information here in America and in the United States,
it is still laughed at by the media. You know,
which is run by the government, whether we want to
admit it or not. And the government itself they say
UFOs do not exist, when we have the overwhelming amount
of evidence.
Speaker 5: That says it does.
Speaker 1: And when you talk about the you know, the evil,
whether these aliens are evil, and how people react to it.
I mean, we had a great guest on last week.
Or name is Sonny Williams, and Sonny, I know you're
listening tonight, I see in the chat room and she
she is a long time alien experience R abductee and
she runs a group down in Texas called Lights in
the Texas Sky.
Speaker 5: And she was telling us this one.
Speaker 1: Part where she woke up in bed, she was paralyzed,
and there was these creatures standing around the bed, almost
like in hooded robes, and you can almost take almost
the satanic demonic imagery from it because they're wearing these
black robes covering their faces and they're repeating over and
over again saying, you are not cooperating, you are not cooperating.
Speaker 5: And this went on.
Speaker 1: She said that she was able to see the clock
and not move for two hours, two solid hours, and
then finally this other being walks in one of the
large ones that they talk about. The eight foot tall
one had to bow down to come in the doorway
and walks up and gets right in her face, and
she hears in her husband's voice saying it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 5: I'll take care of you.
Speaker 1: Well, she reacted very violently to that. She actually was
able to break free enough to strike the creature on
the shoulder and it left kind of upset. And then
these left, but you know, again, they tormented her for
two hours. She said it felt like torture, and then
this being comes in trying to tell her it's going
to be okay, and she didn't by that point, she
didn't want to hear it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't blame her. That's a shocking account and
very brave for her to come forward and share her story,
because I guarantee there are many others out here that
may know exactly the feeling or what she went through. So,
you know, kudos to her and big pat in the back.
I'd hug her if I saw her, But you know,
this is what we hear over and over and I
don't like it. I don't like it, and to me,
it's you know, you kind of wonder are there good aliens,
bad aliens, you know, good angels, bad angels. It doesn't
matter if they're affect in humanity and we're under some
sort of manipulation, even with them changing our genome or
a hybrid program, this is all done without our permission,
and I just it's wrong. It's it's not part of
are what we consider our God given right of free will,
and for us to be treated this way, it's no
different than how we treat our cattle, our dolphins, our
little whales at sea world. And you know, maybe it's
just the way it is in the cosmos. You know,
it's kind of that question that I still suffer with
today with God, and that is is God powerful because
he's right? Or is he right because he's powerful?
Speaker 1: Depends on if you're looking at the Older New Testament.
In the Old Testament, he says do as I say
and shut up.
Speaker 5: You know. That's that's basically it. I had a thought
there and now went out when hear and out the other.
Speaker 1: These If you look at say, we have our pets,
you know, we think look at them as part of
our family.
Speaker 5: Our dogs or cats.
Speaker 1: Are gerbils, you know, and they get sick or they
need shots, whatever, what do we do?
Speaker 5: We take them to the vet. Have you known any
animal who likes to go to the vet? They are
scared to death?
Speaker 2: Are they self aware? See? This is I think that's
the difference. We know that elephants have a self awareness,
whales and dolphins, you know, so they do understand that
they don't have a choice, you know, And I think
that's the difference. You know, humanity, humans, we are different.
We're set apart, and it's because of that intellect and
self awareness and morality codes that are supposed to put
us in charge somehow.
Speaker 1: At the same time, though, the argument could be made
that we're we are taking the pets to the vet
for their own good and the pets don't know that.
They don't they can't comprehend that. Now, again, we are
more and we have that self awareness and consciousness that's
different from the animals. But if you're looking, if you
want to compare that to us and a more intelligent species,
what do they know or what do they comprehend that
we don't and maybe we can't.
Speaker 2: I do absolutely understand what you're saying, and that is
part of you know, some of the things that we
consider when we're trying to conclude certain cases absolutely, Mark,
it's you know, it's a tough science. It's a tough, tough,
tough phenomenon to look into. It's unknown. It's why science
doesn't address it. Science wants two and two to equal four,
and they can prove that over and over and over again. However,
we all know that unusual things, extraordinary things happen to
very credible people every single day. Science can't explain it,
so they brush it away. But it doesn't take away
that these things do happen. And you know, so thank goodness,
you know we're here, we're talking about it, we're sharing stories,
and we're trying to find the answers and the only
way we're going to get them is to get on
that trail. Get the boots on the ground. Let's go out.
We need to cooperate with one another. Stop the little
freaking drama, queen, you know, jilted drama.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And you know we get along and share. You guys
don't care if I'm on another network. We're independent broadcasters.
We're doing something that you're not going to hear on
mainstream media. We're getting the word out to the public
wherever they want to go. That's their choice, and thank
goodness they have options.
Speaker 5: But this is.
Speaker 2: Exactly how we're going to get answers, and we're going
to do it together before any one person has it
all by himself.
Speaker 1: And you know that's we have an uphill battle too,
because we are fighting the media onslaught, We're fighting the
you know, the distractions that are being put out every
other day to dumb us down and not ask questions
and go with the flow. I mean I constantly point
this out to people, like if you walk down the street,
if you're in a mall, at a bus stop, look
at everybody around you and they've got their cell phone
in front of their face, three inches from their face,
surfing the web and staring into that. And I always
go back to my favorite B movie from the eighties
that they live with Rowdy Roddy Piper. You know, you
put on the sunglasses and you see, like, obey, see
the money, this is your God. And you know, we're
so distracted and we have so much to dumbest down
to not ask questions.
Speaker 2: Well, when season three of Honey Booboo outrank the ben
Gtzi breaking story, kill me, We're in trouble.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's sad, that's pathetic.
Speaker 5: It's like, wake up people.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are times I just get so angry
I want to start using stronger language. But I promised
Keith i'd keep it clean, so.
Speaker 2: He runs a clean ship.
Speaker 4: Darn it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very, very frustrating. So yeah, getting back to
to your your trip down there. You know, so what
are some of the other places that you saw? Now
you saw Pumapuku and the NASCAR lines and you.
Speaker 4: Went tos were great by the way.
Speaker 5: Two.
Speaker 4: You know, me being somewhat of a photographer, I really
but you know, I have to say something. You know,
that's supposed to be the it's believed to be the
site where the world was created, but it seems so
simple out there. It seems so muted almost, you know.
Speaker 2: It still is. My goodness, We're standing at the foothills
of the Andes and you know, at one point where
you know, thirteen thousand feet you know, up this mountain
which is you know, Puma Puku and Tiwanaku, and it
was just incredible some of the things that go on
because it's still a third world country and as we're
traveling through, so you know, thank goodness. We had a
few heads up, but there are ATMs. There's no Walmart.
You can't run to the local CVS if you run
out of aspirin. It's just so different. Even the foods
in the restaurants. Walking down the plaza and they're set
up tables and this lady's selling the bread that she
made that morning, and the other lady, you know, brought
fruit from her farm. And it was so incredible the experience.
But being with the Peruvian people and the bolivianos, it
was just amazing because they're so open and they find
us strange. And I remember, as you know, just over
the years looking at National Geographic and some of the
shows and magazines and seeing the Peruvian people and the
big skirts and the very colorful braids with the little extensions.
They still dress exactly the same. Their traditions haven't changed much,
and it is we At one point we're in Changos,
which is this necropolis, and it's as far as your
I can see. All you see is desert and it's hot,
and it's this beautiful white sand, but there are human
remains littered everywhere. And some of those photos I put up,
I think some people thought these were remains that we
dug up and just left on top, you know, for
GPS location or something. No, that is what it looked like.
We were stepping on, you know, two thousand year old
pottery and human remains, and you're running across. I mean,
we're digging up our own elongated skulls. You know, when
we talk about the investigation and the forensic sampling we
did on these, you know, most people think one or
two skulls. I promise you we looked at hundreds, hundreds
of these skulls. Some of them we dug up ourselves.
And it's not hard. We didn't even have a shuffle,
you know, just kind of get in the sand and
oh my gosh, here's the femur. Okay, here's another elongated head.
It was crazy.
Speaker 4: But did you feel I'm sorry, Mark, did you feel
you were disturbing anything there, like digging in a graveyard
or was it just anyone could do that anyone?
Speaker 2: That is a great question, because that's something all of
us felt at one point. It's you know, we're kind
of tiptoeing around trying not to you know, step on
the vertebrae, and to do that, you're stepping on metatarsals.
It was crazy. But no, the reason the area is
littered like this is because of the Wakanos, and that's
the grave robbers, and what they do is they go
in and a lot of these locations are still unmarked.
Peru has not been investigated in a big way on
Probably more than half of their structures and pyramids are
still buried or only half revealed and have never been studied.
The last real archaeological dig was back in the nineteen twenties.
These there's so much going on out there. But the
Wocanos go in and they use these poles and they
go through the desert and that's why there's so much
broken pottery. I mean, I was finding big, huge chunks
of this amazing pottery with inca eyes all over it.
Oh mg, and we're just yeah, it was it was
were you to take this home? We there were some
things that we were allowed to take through customs obviously,
some things had to go through the Ministry of Architecture
and Archaeology and artifacts there. There's some things that you know,
we could and other things we couldn't. And uh, you know,
it was it was. There's a lot of rules on
certain things, so any pretty much, I guess you know,
human remains absolutely not. Obviously, we're not gonna be you know,
bringing home skulls and things like that.
Speaker 1: When you're down there pulling up vertebrae and spines and legs,
you know, their ghost hunderd and me sitting there thinking, yeah,
I bet there's this old peruviing ghostitting and going hey, hey, hey,
you're stepping on my back.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Mark. And let me tell you that
I had all my all my equipment. I had a
lot of it, and the EMF is going crazy. I
had my mailmeter and the I have a strike meter,
and it's a lightning detector because what it does is
it registers any ionist, ionic or you know, kind of
interference like a lightning strike. It's the same thing a
golfer would wear or a lifeguard, and it will tell
you if there's a lightning strike or any kind of
electric activity within a forty mile radius. This thing is
beeping like crazy in certain locations. And while we're there,
we were actually brought into this one area that is
not open to anybody, including people outside of the town,
and we visited with the Mayor of peace Goo and
we had arm guards and everything escort is to this
place and stay with us as we visited this pyramid,
and the interpreter Irene was letting them know who we
all were and what we did well. I was the
UFO investigator, and almost every time she would introduce me,
their eyes get big, they light up, and they couldn't
wait to tell me the UFOs. So we're standing in
Piacego on this pyramid that nobody knows about. It's a
beautiful very it's a step pyramid like most of them
in Peru. And we're standing on this and he's telling
me about this UFO story that the people that used
to live there had told him, and about how this
UFO used to come and there used to be a
big lake out there and every time it came, it
would drain more and more of the water. It was
taking their water.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 2: But these UFOs used to visit this pyramid, and everywhere
we went people were telling us. They're so open with
the UFO and the paranorm stories that they have. They
never looked over their shoulder, like here, you'd kind of
get is anyone listening? Is anyone close? They were just like,
oh my gosh, let me tell you about this ufo
or I saw when I was fourteen years old. Everywhere
we went wow, wow, crazy, you know. And then we're
in the museums and we were given so much favor
and we're brought in the back rooms and I have
on Facebook a picture of a mummy, well that was
actually in the back room of the museum as they
were preparing it to be on display. Nobody but them
had ever seen this mummy before. And of course then
we get to Parrakas and at Senior Wan's Museum. You know,
we're flabbergasted at the elongated skulls because there's a huge difference.
And this is something you learned very quickly investigating these skulls.
You can see when something has been cradle boarded or
the cranial deformation. It's it's almost obvious. But when you
come across one of these skulls that La and Richard
are talking about, it almost sat me down. You guys.
I'm standing there and my eyes immediately went to it,
and I'm thinking, what the heck is that? Well, it's
so different. It's one bariedal plate. It's the bones are
you know, the density, the thickness of the skull is
so much the jaw is so robust and different, the
cranial volume is at least yeah, twenty to thirty percent
bigger than the average adult human head sitting next to it.
And they're just so anomalous looking well and different. You're
just like, that's why we can pick them out. That's
why we're like, can we see this one? Then we
have seen your wand coming up opening the case and
giving us the skulls here you go, Hey, you go,
oh my gosh, who was that?
Speaker 5: Chase?
Speaker 1: Well, we have a caller calling you and who has
a question for you. Uh, we have our good friend
Bruce Pearson calling in.
Speaker 5: How are you doing? Bruce?
Speaker 6: Hello, it's been a while. I was spoking to you
for a while.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's so nice for you to call. I was
just gonna say, Bruce, I know this.
Speaker 6: Name, yea doing the several Marshalls imagine. Congratulations on your trip.
Sounds like there was an amazing adventure, and certainly Lord
and Mark they've had their own travels and adventures. We've
been able to share some of them together. But uh,
you know, I think it's it's really cool that you
came on the show and UH have been able to
work collaboratively on this. As we move ahead on this,
I think you made a good point. I don't think,
you know, I really don't think we're ever going to
get a Gardy disclosure. I don't think we're ever going
to get voluntary disclosures. There's really nothing in it for
the military, government or anyone else that has a control
order explinancially, economically or whatever to open that can of worms.
There just can't be any good out of it from
their perspective, and so I don't think it's as much
as you can. I think we should continue pushing, I
just don't think it's ever going to happen.
Speaker 2: Well, I agree, and thank you, thank you for that.
I'm very happy to be here, you know, on unknown origins.
We just love sharing stories and being out here and
we're all working, and you know, even people that you know,
these guys don't but even you know, people that just
research and and you know, do their own shows and stuff,
still talk to many, many people every week and they're researching,
and you know, so their knowledge base is increasing. And
I'm fast learning to highly respect UH independent broadcasters because
the knowledge base that we're accumulating is massive, especially the
producers like Keith and Race and you know some of
these guys because they're just not listening to this show.
They're listening to all of them and all of the
guests and all of the opinions. So you know, we
can't forget to hook these guys up and support them
with everything from likes on Facebook to donate buttons. It's
it's just a great way to show, you know, we
support independent broadcasting and screw that mainstream media. I know
where we're getting the truth and it's not on Fox
News or Yeah.
Speaker 5: See, it is actually stoop to making their own up
these days.
Speaker 2: So it's so crazy. But Bruce, thank you so much
for colling and I agree. And you know, when it
comes to disclosure, I actually have gotten to the point
where I know because my husband's you know, and he's
a submarine commander. I know he doesn't keep these secrets.
None of his friends do. This is a shadow part
of the military, the part of the military that would
keep these secrets, and they are keeping them. These aren't
the guys driving on that base every day. These aren't
the guys that you will see wearing uniforms and serving
their country and I don't think the politicians would. Did
you tell Obama anything? He's a temporary employee. And Obama
didn't come up through the ranks of you know, the
CIA and NSA like the old regime. Did you know
Bush and Cheney and that whole crooney little bit. They've
been trading jobs in these secret organizations and holding these
secrets for a long time. But do you know those
are the secret keepers, these kind of shadow pockets.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing is these guys they know all
these politicians are temporary.
Speaker 5: So there's a lot.
Speaker 1: Of even mainstream television programs like Scandal, they talk about
B thirteen, second thirteen or whatever, these secrets government entities
that are beyond the government. And and we lost Bruce. Yeah, Bruce,
if you want to call back in, please feel free.
And yeah, they just they they they don't answer to
anybody because they know. These politicians, if they're not already
on board, you know, they're going to be gone in
a few years and they're going to keep doing what
they're doing. Absolutely, so it's it's it's ridiculous. So let
me ask you this, what do you think is on
the horizon, What do you think is really going to
be happened in the next year or so, because there
seems to be so much strange things happening in the paranormal.
Speaker 2: I hopefully. I I think we're going to be probably
a little further still debating DNA evidence. I think we're
still going to be debating some of the truths that
we know we're going out here, but the naysayers are
getting less and less. As we all know, there's a
huge difference between a skeptic and a debunker and someone
that's just out to, you know, make your life miserable
and no matter what evidence is presented, they're never going
to believe it. And you know, I love them. I
think they keep us honest. However, when you start crossing
the line of ridiculous, in other words, you want to
come at me and make me responsible, and this is
a good thing. To prove what I've just said, show
my data, give you all my notes. Well, when you're
coming back at me, I would like the same from you.
Prove to me why what I showed you is not accurate.
Don't just go on Facebook and spout off your you know,
this guy's a bonehead. We're starting to hold these skeptics
accountable for the same you know, for the same information,
for that same caliber that they're expecting from us. That
is only fair. The second thing I think we're going
to see is more respect towards these subjects, because as
you and Lauren know, you know, I started the resistance
on Facebook because I'm tired of the way, you know,
mainstream media, you know, has to tongue in cheek and
you know, the X file theme is on every UFO story.
But if that reporter had done just just as much
homework on that story from that witness about a UFO
that he did on the sevent eleven robberies, you know,
where they could come out and say, well, this is
the fourth time in seven years that this rob you
know that this seventy eleven has been robbed, and police
authorities say, you know, give us the same respect or
you're not getting our stories anymore. I had a huge
UFO experience. It was epic in two thousand, way back
in twenty ten, and I've had everything from Paranormal Witness,
you know, I've had all sorts of TV shows call me.
They've even offered me money to sell the story, and
my answer has been no, because I just don't trust
entertainment or these yeah, these news things. However, I did
just give it to La for his Watchers documentary, but
I've worked with him. I trust him because we have
to tell the truth in these and stop spinning these
with these exaggerated you know, entertainment value.
Speaker 5: Oh exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody who listened to our show has heard
me complain about being on a couple of these programs
where they've twisted information. I was interviewed by Jack Osborne
for Haunted Highways and this pinhead producer comes right in
the middle of my story. He cuts me off to say,
oh no, no, no, no, don't say it this way. Try
saying it this way. It's like, do you want to
hear the freaking story or not?
Speaker 5: Good?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: You know, don't tell me how to tell my story.
And you know what, they wound up cutting me from
the episode because I didn't want to play along.
Speaker 2: Are you serious?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 2: I don't doubt that. And good for you, Mark, because honestly,
and you guys both know, I've been approached to do
television several times, and without a certain commitment. My answer
has been absolutely no. I've backed out of two of them.
One of them actually made the air, and I was
so thankful when people raped it when after two episodes
everyone was laughing. But I knew when they said, Okay, Chase,
we want you in a tank top and we're gonna
dress you like Laura Croft and you want you to
act more like an action figure. I'm done, guys.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm done with that. And it's just you know,
I'm an investigator. I love being out there and there's
nothing more. And I know both of you know this firsthand.
When you have somebody that has experienced something so extraordinary,
they can't sleep, they're scared, or they're just so overwhelmed
by what's just happened. They can't tell their neighbors. They'll
think they're crazy. They can't call their mom, you know,
their husband's laughing at him and thinks it's funny, or
vice versa. Well, and then they call and talk to you,
and you walk into the house and you're very professional,
and they're crying. They're so thankful that somebody's listening and
that they can tell their story to somebody that understands
phenomena right exactly.
Speaker 1: Actually, we got Bruce back on Bruce, did you have
another question?
Speaker 6: Well, I just wanted to follow up on that if
I may. You know changed, I think that your book
is is indicative. Mark and I have had this discussion
on a number of occasions as a you know, one
of the I guess, unfortunately, one of the few people
and that this has been trained, you know, in broadcast
journalism and spent a good portion of my life doing
documentaries and invescue and stuff. I am quite honestly, frighteningly
astounded by the high quality of a lot of the
shows out there. Mark and I have discussed as many
times as you well know.
Speaker 5: Mark.
Speaker 6: But having said that, I think that the fact that
you wrote your books is the point that I want
to make. I'd like you to discuss between the two
of you or three of you. I'm sorry learning and
trying to exclude you, but the fact is, I think
we need to now raise the bar as much as possible,
not at the exclusion of anybody. And there's a million
different agendas for people that are involved in this community.
But I think that we are now cracking the egg,
if you will, with science, with forensic technology, and I
think that we need to try to continue to push
that envelope and be serious about investigative techniques and ferret
out the fakers and the folks that are misinformed for
whatever good reasons or not. And I think that it's
important that we don't turn into just the sea of malaise,
that we keep rehashing the same documentation without moving it forward,
because inevitably, if that happens, the excitement, the passion, the interest,
and the new information that comes out that's a result
of that is going to wane. And will that'll be
a sad day if that happened. I don't see that
happening now. But I always try when I'm speaking to
people to make draws a strong distinction, as you were
just making the point Chase about entertainment shows and shows
that at least making an attempt to be UH an
investigative documentary, if you will, on television. So I think
it's very important that everybody involved in this to the
extent they can try to raise the bar in terms
of the scientific UH investigation and try to be very
careful on how they document things and before they proclaim
things to be valid, because God knows the naysayers. Jip
all over when when somebody is found out to be fraudulent,
and that that hurts the whole community.
Speaker 2: It sure does.
Speaker 6: You don't deserve anybody's purpose. And I'm not being critical
of people learn it because you know they're just fascinated.
They won't have a good time. And there's nothing wrong
with that. No, you know, those people have every right
to do as they see fit. But if you're gonna
if you're going to try to to get any unknown
or unexplained phenomena, and you purport to be someone who
is trying to take a balance and scientific approach to
figure out what's going on, I think that you really
need to played by the rules if you will, and
that's hard. It's a lot harder to do, especially in
an environment where there really aren't a lot of rules.
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right, and Bruce, thank you. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Speaker 6: I just want to hear your opine on it, and
I'm going to hang out and let you guys speak.
So thank you very much.
Speaker 5: All right, thanks a lot, Bruce, appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Hi, Bruce, Yeah, I do too, And Bruce, I love you.
You're just so awesome. Seriously, he said, he read the book.
I'm like, oh, I thank you so much for that.
And that's exactly what I'm hoping you know, comes out
here is is really that if whether you're a paranormal investigator,
you're out looking for Bigfoot, chupacabra, a cryptozoologist, or you
UFO investigator, it all comes down to what you're doing
is important. And what if that's the time that you're
out there at that paranormal investigation and something very epic
happens and you don't know how to construct a proper
case file, or you don't know how to preserve that
evidence or how to present it properly, or even who
to call, you know, to say, hey, do you see
an apparition? Because we all know what happens if you
post it on Facebook?
Speaker 4: Right Oh yeah, oh god, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's yeah, it's just it's it's Mayham. Everyone has
an opinion, but that's what It's a social environment. You know,
who do you send these photos to? How what labs
can you get? Are you know, do you have to
be you know, a special connected person? Heck no, oh
my gosh. And you know that's really some of the
things I've learned out in the field is that some
of The new people are the people that really never
got to be in investigations because they just didn't know
how this worked. We want to lay that out for
them and just give them all these answers because we
need investigators and we need conscientious and like Bruce said,
people that are going to do this now with all
the equipment we have knowledge, forensics availability. Now we need
every single case that we accept, we accept knowing that
our goal is whatever we find, even if it is unknown,
that case file is going to be at the level
where it's admissible, because if it's not, what you've done
is offered the public and the scientific community just unanswered questions,
more unvalidated evidence and debate. Well, I know, as a ufologists,
we've had fifty friggin years of that. I'm ready to
move on, and we are capable of of constructing these
investigations and a case management system that, by the end
you can present to any other investigator, all your heroes,
TV stars, scientific community, but more importantly the public, a
case file that is so conclusive it is admissible and
would meet a burden of proof. Halla seriously, and we
can do this. You can do this. Everyone can do this.
It's just learning the methodologies of investigation and of course
some of this you know, like interviewing skills, and it
takes doing it and you get better each year. But
it doesn't mean you're totally going to blow it on
your first one. You guys, grab it, let's go, let's
get busy, let's get boots on the ground. Cases are
coming in. I don't know a single investigator that is
investigating every single report they're getting. And it kills us
because I'm always afraid I have to say no to
the one person right that needs me the most. It
puts ant in my stomach.
Speaker 1: Well, I hate to do this, but we're actually I
knew this hour is going to fly by quickly, and
it did. So we're coming up on the end of
the show, Chase. Before we go, where can people find
information on your book and about you? And we'll plug
your radio show again.
Speaker 2: Aw thanks guys. Chase Klutsky dot com is I have
a website. I'm obsessed with my Facebook. I love my
Facebook friends. I network all the time, so you know
you can find me there. The book is sold through
Richard Dolan Press. Because this book is also it's Chase
Klutsky with Richard Dolan not quite a co author, but
trust me, I gave him, Hey, this is how you
do it. Make it readable. That's what he did, amazing publisher.
So it's you know. The book is called Admissible, The
Field Manual for Investigating UFOs, Paranormal Activity and Strange Creatures
with Richard Dolan as well. I have a children's book
called Our Alien's Really Real. And honestly, guys, you know
you can find out where my show is and everything
on Facebook. But you know, I'm just so happy to
be with you guys tonight. I'm miss miss hearing from
you and it's just awesome that thank you for inviting me,
and you know, dark Matter Radio for having me. This
is amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on. We loved having
you and we'll have to do this again sometime.
Speaker 2: And Bruce you rock mistuf.
Speaker 4: Well really does well.
Speaker 1: We're going to sign off this so thank you everybody
for listening to another edition of Unknown Origins Radio. Be
sure to tune in here every Monday evening at nine
pm Eastern Standard time on the Dark Matter Radio Network.
And we sign off with as usual with our weekly
wisdom from Greg Gonzalez and Greg says I do what
I want, when I want, where I want. If my
wife says it's okay, that's right.
Speaker 5: Have a great night, everybody,