WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.039 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:34.560 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 7 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:43.079 Bity me. This is the follow up to the number 8 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:48.479 one national bestseller Twenty two Murders. The truth about the 9 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:54.159 deadliest criminal incident in Canadian history has remained untold until now. 10 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:59.840 Investigative journalist Paul Plangel's twenty two Murders examined the April 11 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:04.519 twenty twenty shooting spree committed by Gabriel Whartman that began 12 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:08.359 in portapic Nova, Scotia and ended thirteen and a half 13 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:13.120 hours later when Whartman was shot dead by RCNP officers. 14 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:19.239 The episodes left numerous serious questions in its wake, most 15 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:23.159 especially why was the killer able to evade police in 16 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:29.040 such limited geography for so long. Since then, the government 17 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:34.560 called a public inquiry into the massacres, the Mass Casualty Commission, 18 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:39.359 Though Pelango unearthed a treasure trove of evidence pointing to 19 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.680 the possibility that Whartman or someone close to him was 20 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:47.280 acting as a police agent. The Commission evaded all the 21 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:51.879 big questions and let the RCMP off with a slap 22 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:55.799 on the wrist. To this day, no one has been 23 00:01:55.840 --> 00:02:01.640 held accountable. In this new book, Pelango continues to crack 24 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:05.640 the case, delving deeper into the evidence and testimonies of 25 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:10.479 the witnesses who have been ignored, Drawing on his vast 26 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:15.280 experience as an investigative reporter, his mind the thousands of 27 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:19.159 pages of commissioned documents to reveal the wall of secrecy 28 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:25.280 and deceptions constructed by the RCNP and the criminal justice system, 29 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:29.919 exposing new facts that may alter the public's perception of 30 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:36.240 what really happened. A touredive force of reportage, Anatomy of 31 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:40.080 a cover Up, accomplishes what the commissions set out to do, 32 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:45.560 uncover the truth about the Nova Scotia massacres and bring 33 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:50.680 long overdue justice to its victims. The book they were 34 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:54.919 featuring this evening is Anatomy of a cover up. The 35 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:59.439 Truth about the RCNP and the Nova Scotia Massacres with 36 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:07.360 my special guest, investigative journalist and author Paul Poleango. Welcome back, 37 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:10.120 to the program and thank you very much for this interview. 38 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:11.439 Paul Polego. 39 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.840 It's great to be back, Dan, thank you so. 40 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:19.560 Much, and congratulations on your latest book, Anatomy of a 41 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:20.120 cover Up. 42 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:21.280 Thank you. 43 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:26.280 First off, just for people that are tuning in now 44 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:29.280 and don't know the story of your other book, twenty 45 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:34.199 two Murders, tell us just briefly about the publishing of 46 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:36.680 the book twenty two Murders. 47 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:40.919 Well after the massacres of twenty two people in Nova 48 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:44.840 Scotia in April twenty twenty, on the weekend of eighteenth 49 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:48.199 and nineteenth of that month, I became involved in the 50 00:03:48.280 --> 00:03:52.719 story and following the story, and it became apparent to 51 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:57.840 me that the Roal Canadian amount of police were attempting 52 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:01.520 to perpetrate a cover up. This was based on my 53 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:05.439 experience and my lengthy experience with public inquiries and covering 54 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:10.120 the RCMP. I've written five books about them, and when 55 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:14.439 I looked at it, I thought that I've always seen 56 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:19.879 cover ups retrospectively. I've come across them and late in 57 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:24.040 the game and analyze them, and the media and politicians 58 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:28.879 basically said, you're a conspiracy theorist, and I knew, you know, 59 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:32.240 I was dealing with facts and that I could see 60 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:34.680 this cover up coming, and I thought they would use 61 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:38.959 the same playbook. So twenty two Murders was written to 62 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.160 force a public inquiry that was going to be called 63 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:47.360 into the massacres, to deal with people in facts and names. 64 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:51.279 Things I put on the public record, and then I 65 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.399 knew this would cause them to generate all kinds of 66 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:58.720 paper and information they were likely going to hide. But 67 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:01.360 once they did that, I knew where to look at 68 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.399 how to find it. And that basically leads to the 69 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:07.560 publication of anatomy of a cover up, because I take 70 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:10.879 apart the cover up and show what happened, what was 71 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:14.000 hidden in plain sight, and how it worked. 72 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:18.120 You're right that there are twenty five truths about the 73 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:22.439 Nova Scotia massacres. Twenty two of those truths have names. 74 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:27.279 Tell us about the other three truths in this Nova 75 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:28.759 Scotia massacres. 76 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:37.680 Well, the main truth is that the RCMP RCMP officers 77 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:41.120 on the ground during the thirteen and a half hour 78 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:45.079 rampage by Gabriel Wortman that led to all these deaths 79 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:49.680 did nothing. They saved no one. They didn't get in 80 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:53.120 front of him. There were no roadblocks. He drove around 81 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:57.319 for probably one hundred and fifty miles around Nova Scotia 82 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:00.519 on a Sunday morning, picking off people. You're in there, 83 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:05.480 including an RCMP constable, Heidi Stephenson. The other truth, one 84 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:08.920 of the other truth is truth is they were lying, 85 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:13.160 The government and the police were lying. They were covering up, 86 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:15.759 and that was a truth that was evident from the beginning. 87 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:19.560 There wasn't any other. So there was no heroism at 88 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:22.680 all on the part of the RCMP, and they were 89 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:26.480 protected from the beginning by the government, and governments involved 90 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:30.680 the bureaucracy, the Department of Justice, and so the truth 91 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:32.560 was stimied almost at every turn. 92 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:40.560 This public inquiry was named the Mass Casualty Commission, and 93 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:44.800 you talked about public inquiries that you had written about 94 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:50.759 and witnessed before. What was this Mass Casualty Commission? What 95 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:53.319 was its premise in the first place, as you write, 96 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.240 how are they going to conduct this public inquiry? 97 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:01.160 Well, right off the bat, the government indicated that it 98 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:05.439 would be trauma informed, that they didn't want to hurt 99 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:09.240 anyone else's feelings or cause any more of pain, and 100 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:13.079 that the principles of restorative justice that are typical in 101 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:17.319 the Indigenous community would be applied to it, which right 102 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:22.399 away signal to me that some shenanigans were up. Because 103 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:26.199 when the government says it cares about your feelings and 104 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.480 the police say they're worried that they don't want to 105 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:32.879 hurt your feelings anymore, I get really really suspicious. As 106 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:37.360 for the restorative justice principles, there were no Indigenous people 107 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:40.399 involved in this other than some of the police officers 108 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.800 who many of them who did nothing. It signaled to 109 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:46.959 me that they were not going to be playing this 110 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:49.439 straight or trying to get to the real truth, which 111 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:50.439 proved to be the fact. 112 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:54.839 And you talk about that they threw around the word 113 00:07:55.319 --> 00:08:00.439 that governments always throw around this transparent, and see that 114 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:02.480 this commission would be transparent. 115 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:06.120 Yes, it's like Shakespeare would have had fun with that. 116 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:10.360 Every time they got into a difficult situation where they 117 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:15.160 were trying to hide something important, the commissioner, former Chief 118 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:18.800 Justice of the Nova Scotia Supreme Court, J. Michael McDonald, 119 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:24.759 would say we're going to be absolutely transparent here, and 120 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:26.480 then as I go through it, I show you he 121 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:31.759 was anything but transparent. It was totally opaque. They basically 122 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:36.879 cut short testimony anything that was sort of headed into 123 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.879 waters they didn't want to go where the transparency lay 124 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:47.080 just prevented any real discussion of what happened. It was 125 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:50.080 the opposite of transparent and every step of the way. 126 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:55.039 What was the role of the victims families in terms 127 00:08:55.080 --> 00:09:03.600 of having this mass Casualty mission not proceed as the 128 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:08.120 Mass Casualty Commission originally had planned. What was the role 129 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:11.639 of the families in changing that direction? 130 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:17.240 Well, in the months after the massacres in twenty twenty, 131 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.559 the government and the RCMP signaled that they were going 132 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:25.720 to do a review and this review. Then they finally 133 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:29.840 announced the review in July twenty twenty, which meant that 134 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:35.120 these three commissioners McDonald and two others, one who was 135 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:38.679 highly politically connected to the federal government was sort of 136 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:42.200 a fixer for the federal government, would conduct a review, 137 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:44.720 which meant they would look at all the paperwork in 138 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:48.960 a hotel room somewhere, order sandwiches over a couple of days, 139 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:53.200 find a couple of minor misdeeds, give the RCMP a 140 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.840 slap on the rest, they go home. Nothing to see here. 141 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:00.759 The families were so outraged by this review, as were 142 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:06.600 a lot of citizens. Law school professors, lawyers, themselves politicians. 143 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:10.559 I wrote about it extensively that this was part of 144 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:13.600 the cover up. So then they announced the federal and 145 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:21.639 provincial government announced a joint federal provincial public inquiry headed 146 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:23.840 by the same three people who were going to conduct 147 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:27.879 the review. So essentially they were still going to conduct 148 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:32.480 the review, but pretend it was a public inquiry. And 149 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:34.799 that's again largely what transpired. 150 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:39.440 What were you doing and writing as a journalist, and 151 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:42.320 what was the and tell us about Frank magazine. 152 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:47.639 I started out, you know, I was in my early 153 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:49.960 seventies when this started. I didn't think I'd be doing 154 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:53.519 this for five years or longer. I started out wanting 155 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:56.960 to help other journalists with what I knew about the 156 00:10:57.080 --> 00:11:00.960 RCMP and what they were doing based on my extensive 157 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:04.840 knowledge writing about them for over thirty years. All the reporters, 158 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:09.320 the mains, the legacy and alternative reporters basically said go away, 159 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:12.679 old man, we don't need your help. And I could 160 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:14.840 see the pattern that was emerging. They were going to 161 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:17.600 cover the story for a couple of weeks and then 162 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:20.399 lose interest and move on to the next flower show 163 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:23.480 or the next shiny object. I was running out of 164 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:27.480 places to publish. I had some places that took a 165 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:31.200 story here and a story there, and eventually it got 166 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.960 into the fall of twenty twenty, and I wanted to 167 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:38.000 write about Lisa Banfield, who was the common law wife 168 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:42.120 of the shooter, Gabriel Wortman. At this point, six to 169 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:47.840 eight months afterwards, she had not been named by the government, 170 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:51.039 the police. They were all protecting her, treating her as 171 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:54.879 a victim. And the only one who had named her 172 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:58.480 was Frank Magazine, and they cleverly described and Frank Magazine 173 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:01.919 is a satirical magazine with two different versions of it, 174 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.960 one in Ottawa and one on the East coast of 175 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:09.000 Canada and the Atlantic. Frank cleverly did a piece on 176 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:12.879 Lisa Banfield, calling her a hero and identifying her as 177 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:16.559 a hero to get her name out and as Andrew Douglas, 178 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:18.799 the editor of Frank said at the time, who could 179 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:22.200 complain about that? But he got her name out there. 180 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:26.159 And then as I investigated her, I wanted to write 181 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:30.159 a story because I said, her story doesn't make sense 182 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.240 to me. There are too many questions, and I was 183 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:37.159 warned by other journalists don't do that. Women's groups will 184 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.919 be marching on We had a business, we made fuse glass, 185 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:43.480 and we had a business in Chester, Nova Scotia. And 186 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:47.000 one reporter says, women's groups will be marching on your 187 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:49.879 store and protesting because she's a victim and you're going 188 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.759 to be victim shaming her. And I said, no, I 189 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:56.879 don't believe her story, and there's supporting evidence why I 190 00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:59.080 should not believe her story and the public should know 191 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.919 about it. So I went to Andrew Douglass at Frank 192 00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:04.480 Magazine and we cut a deal. I didn't want to 193 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:09.200 write in Frank's satirical, starky fashion. I said, I'll just 194 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:12.879 report the story and you run it. And that became 195 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:16.080 sort of a marriage made in heavens. We transformed Frank 196 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:21.759 from being a snarky satirical magazine and gossip magazine into 197 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.879 a sort of a paper of record about the facts 198 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.720 of the Nova Scotia massacres, and that worked out very 199 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.399 very well. I mean we were able to get out stories, 200 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:34.240 put names on the record, put scenarios on the record, 201 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:38.559 basically find more of the real story, and back the 202 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:40.440 police and the government into a corner. 203 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.399 You talk about that. J Michael McDonald, former Chief Justice 204 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:50.320 as Nova Scotia is the chairman of this commission, but 205 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:55.399 also Leanne Fitch, former police chief and doctor Kim Stanton. 206 00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:59.440 Can you just tell us their backgrounds which seemed to 207 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:01.519 be very in for this commission. 208 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:04.679 Well. I found that McDonald from the beginning was a 209 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:09.399 suspect choice as Chief Justice of the Nova Scotia Court. 210 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.240 He was involved in a case overseeing a case years 211 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:17.080 earlier involving the former Premier of Nova Scotia, Gerald Reagan, 212 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:22.799 who was charged with multiple sexual offenses involving young girls. 213 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:27.960 And when the case finally came to trial, Donald found 214 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:31.279 a way to get the most serious charges stayed and 215 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:36.240 eventually the others were dismissed. And people were outraged by this, 216 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:38.919 and he was seen to be a Liberal Party bagman 217 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.320 who would do favors for the Liberal Party which was 218 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.240 in power at the time of the massacres at the 219 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:50.320 federal level and the provincial level in Nova Scotia. Leanne 220 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:54.799 Fitch was a for police chief in Fredericton, New Brunswick 221 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:59.960 and she was applauded widely applauded for being the first 222 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:06.240 openly gay female police chief in Canada. The problem with Fitch, 223 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:09.440 there are many problems with Fitch. In my mind, she 224 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:13.879 was married to a cop in Frederton. She was the 225 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:19.279 police chief at the time. Gabriel Wortman was conducting some 226 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:23.679 criminal activities in that area and she likely was aware 227 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:25.960 of it and had an interest in covering it up. 228 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:32.000 After she stopped being the police chief in New Brunswick 229 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:37.120 in Frederton, she eventually became a member of the RCMP 230 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:42.879 Management Advisory Board two months before the massacres. So she 231 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:47.039 was in cahoots with had pictures taken with Lee Bergerman, 232 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.440 the Assistant Commissioner of the RCMP in Nova Scotia. They 233 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:54.120 were like buddies. They were all part of a women's 234 00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:57.960 policing group and she was as she continued to be 235 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.879 part of the National Police in tell diligence operations and 236 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:07.679 overseeing committees. So she was a police insider at every 237 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.080 step of the way, in an RCMP insider. She resigned 238 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.600 the Management Advisory Board thing. But her father was also 239 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:19.200 a Mountie. Her late father was a Mountie. I mean, 240 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:22.720 there's no way she should have been there overseeing what 241 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:25.679 the mount he's had done. And as for Stanton, she 242 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:29.159 was involved in women's groups and had written a trees 243 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:34.840 on what the public inquiries are there to basically do 244 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:39.320 social engineering, not to get to the facts. And that again, 245 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.320 that's what happened, and I described the evolution of that 246 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:46.720 public inquiry process. You know, Stanton was stating a fact, 247 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:49.759 but she was the wrong person there. She was not 248 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.120 you know, she was part of the women's groups, the 249 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.720 women groups, and she was part of testified as witnesses. 250 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:58.600 I don't know why. Nobody could understand why they were there, 251 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:02.200 but the government sort of muddied the investigative side of 252 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:06.400 things by bringing in indigenous groups and other groups that 253 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:08.519 had nothing to do with us. 254 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.759 Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear 255 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:20.599 these messages now from this Mass Casualty Commission. What is 256 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:25.400 it in the beginning their official narrative regarding Lisa Banfield 257 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:31.359 and what is the initially their stated focus of this inquiry. 258 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:38.279 Well, Lisa Banfield the official you know, the official narrative 259 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.440 evolved to be something like this. It changes over time, 260 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:47.480 but the initial narrative was there was a party at 261 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:53.039 workmen in Banfield's warehouse, man Cave women Cave at one 262 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:58.480 thirty six Orchard Beach Drive in Port of pech Nova, Scotia. 263 00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:02.960 A fight breaks out over some sort of conversation with 264 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.920 a couple from Maine. Banfield goes home, goes to bed 265 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.960 around seven o'clock at night. Workman eventually comes. There's a fight. 266 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:16.640 He drags her out naked from bed, cuffs her around, 267 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:25.279 ties her up with bathrobes, robe cords, handcuffs her, fires 268 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:29.519 bullets near her head into the ground, burns his cottage down, 269 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:32.240 locks her in the back of a replica police car 270 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:37.279 that he had. She climbed through the silent patrolman, got 271 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.759 out of the handcuffs, escaped into the woods and spent 272 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.160 all night in the woods at zero degrees temperature that's 273 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:50.759 thirty two degrees fahrenheit, so freezing temperatures, scantily clad, and 274 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:58.720 eventually survived without hypothermia. And the Mass casually Commission and 275 00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:02.359 the AIRCNP shell her from the beginning as a victim 276 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:09.240 of domestic violence, and the focus of the inquiry had 277 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:13.680 nothing to do with it, would not delve into Gabriel 278 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:20.839 Whartman's criminal background, which was extensive, but into sort of 279 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:25.759 rather weak allegations about domestic violence. In fact, the most 280 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:31.400 egregious event happened eight years earlier, and Lisa Banfield never 281 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.000 made a complaint. In fact, she didn't even remember a 282 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:36.160 complaint being made. 283 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:41.839 You write that she had been interviewed initially by police 284 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.200 and so, and she didn't speak in front of this 285 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:51.359 commission till July twenty twenty two. She talks about what 286 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.839 Whartman does after he puts her in the car and 287 00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:57.680 thinks she's secured in his cop car. What does she 288 00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:02.079 hear and what does she think the plan is for Wharpman, 289 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:03.960 which includes her sister. 290 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:08.599 Apparently, well, her story sort of, it's hard to nail 291 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.960 down what the real story was, but you know, Worman 292 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:18.519 said he was distressed by COVID. Her according to her, 293 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:23.400 he was distressed by COVID. The world economy was failing. 294 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:27.960 He was cashing out all his assets. He was going 295 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:32.119 to become a survivalist. And then in a fit of rage, 296 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:38.200 he burned down their beautiful, extensive log cabin cottage which 297 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:42.160 was like a mini mansion, and burned down his warehouse. 298 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:44.680 And then he was going to kill a bunch of people, 299 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:50.680 including her sister, And eventually he killed the thirteen of 300 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.160 his or He was accused of killing thirteen of his 301 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:58.000 neighbors and nine other people. That was about it as 302 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:00.480 far you know, I guess there twists in turns along 303 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:01.960 the way, but we'll get into it. 304 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:08.599 Tell us about Gabriel Wartman in terms of he's supposed 305 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.519 to be this wealthy genturist, but also he has this 306 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:19.519 he's a collector, and he has four known replica RCMP cars. 307 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:24.279 Well not replica cars. He had four decommissioned police cars 308 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:29.039 okay that were stripped, but one of them, twenty and 309 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:35.119 seventeen four tourists he rebuilt into a replica of an 310 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:42.319 actual police cruiser with a silent patrolman, a radar unit, lights, decals. 311 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:45.720 It was to the you know, at a glance, it 312 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:48.799 looked like a real police car. 313 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:55.000 Also that he had numerous motorcycles, you say, sixteen motorbikes, 314 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.160 he had four by fours. But also that he had 315 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:03.200 a known reputation as a person that smuggled various things 316 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:05.880 from Maine in the US. 317 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:08.559 He when he went to university at the University of 318 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:13.079 New Brunswick. For people who don't know, Fredericton is about 319 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:18.480 a forty five minute hour drive from the border crossing 320 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:21.640 at Holton, Maine, which is the top of I ninety 321 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:25.599 five going down the East coast. When he was in Fredericton, 322 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:29.440 he was hooked up with a crooked lawyer named Tom Evans. 323 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:33.519 There are some suggestions that they had a relationship because 324 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:37.480 Evans was gay and he'd had relationships with other young 325 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:42.640 men and they were involved in smuggling cigarettes, guns, everything 326 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:46.440 across the border, either the land crossings or by boat 327 00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:48.680 across the Bay of Fundy at the top of the 328 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.359 Bay of Fundy, or not the Bay of Fundy but 329 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.519 the Gulf of Maine in the top there. He'd been 330 00:22:55.519 --> 00:23:02.000 doing that and bragging about it for years. Drugs, guns, rifles, grenades, 331 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:05.599 and he was bringing them into the country and then 332 00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:10.240 selling them and motorcycles motorcycle parts all the time. So 333 00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:13.599 he was he was active in doing this and there's 334 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:18.680 some suggestion that the police knew about this, but nothing 335 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:19.119 was done. 336 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:25.599 Also, in the initial police report, Lisa Banfield pold police 337 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:29.319 of the weaponry that she believed Warpman possessed. 338 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:32.640 Well, yeah, she professed to be someone who didn't know 339 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.160 anything about guns, but then she would talk about them 340 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:40.559 as military style guns, you know, a glock. He had 341 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.519 a Ruger, a Ruger Mini, which was like a small 342 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:51.880 AR fifteen. He had shot an antique shotgun and he 343 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:54.240 had sniper rifles. I don't think she talked about the 344 00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:57.839 sniper rifles or the grenades. Others talked about them. But 345 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.519 he had about four or five guns. But he always 346 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.400 had a lot. But it wasn't a massive arsenal as 347 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:04.640 the police made it out to be. 348 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:13.039 At this inquiry, obviously, the commission talks about the police response. 349 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:19.000 Lisa Banfield is not discovered by police till six thirty am. 350 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:24.799 So this occurs after ten pm the night before. She 351 00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:28.200 has found at six thirty am. So tell us what 352 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:34.440 the inquiry says and states as the police response initially 353 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:35.519 to this massacre. 354 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:40.480 Well, Lisa Banfield says, she disappears into the woods. She 355 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:44.039 has no nothing on her feet, hands, It's zero degrees. 356 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:47.440 It's snowed in Halifax, which is about an hour and 357 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:51.319 twenty minute drive to the south that night, so it 358 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:56.279 was very very cold and in the morning the police 359 00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:01.680 curiously there are thirteen people dead in the community. The 360 00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:06.359 RCMP doesn't know that, but they they know there are 361 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.880 bodies lying on the road down Orchard Beach Drive, Lisa 362 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:13.359 McCully and Corey Ellis, and they know there's a few 363 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:17.400 other bodies at the house of the Blair family, but 364 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:19.799 they don't know the extent of anything. And then they 365 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:25.759 send off their members home around Speginning around six a m. 366 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:31.839 And then, miraculously, at around six point thirty three, Banfield 367 00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:36.440 shows up at the house of Leon Jodrey, who lived 368 00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:41.519 at the north end of the portapict development. And Leon Jodrey, 369 00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:44.720 who worked in the as a department, you know, as 370 00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:49.519 a forester working for the provincial government, knew the forests 371 00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:53.279 and he said she came up and he was shocked 372 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:57.599 to see her. And in his estimation, he told the 373 00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:01.039 original policeman he was dealing with, I don't believe her 374 00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:03.279 story that she was in the woods all night because 375 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.079 she doesn't have hypothermia. She's not dirty, he said. She 376 00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:11.119 looked like she had fresh makeup on and her clothing 377 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:16.559 was barely soiled. And then the commission, however, and the 378 00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:22.640 RCMP along the way, completely ignored Leon Jodriy. They just 379 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:26.440 refused to deal the factor indications that Jodrey was harassed 380 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.200 by the RCMP, and all that was accepted of the 381 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:39.359 testimony was that Banfield was brutalized, she was lucky to survive, 382 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:43.960 and never questioning depth about the nature of the fight 383 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:48.119 she had with Wortman, the nature of their finances. As 384 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.400 you pointed out, she testified in July twenty twenty two, 385 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:56.480 July fifteenth, in fact, and it wasn't until a few 386 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:01.440 days after she testified that Werbman and Banfield's financial records 387 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:05.279 were put out and nobody that was never brought before 388 00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:08.720 the commission, the media never reported on it, and her 389 00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:13.839 financial records showed the contrary to the mcc and RCMP 390 00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:18.519 story that she made fifteen thousand dollars a year and 391 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:21.960 was basically a work in sex slave of Wortmen. Well, 392 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:26.799 she barely lived with Wortman in the nineteen months prior 393 00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:32.400 to the massacres on her visas alone, never mind her 394 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:36.799 debit card or cash purchases. On her visas alone, she 395 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:41.880 was spending in excess of approximately five tho two hundred 396 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.079 dollars a month and the bills were all paid for, 397 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:49.680 so almost one hundred and sixty thousand dollars and visas alone, 398 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:53.559 twenty thousand at a discount clothing store, you know, twenty 399 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:58.240 thousand here, ten thousand there at makeup stores. So she 400 00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:00.920 wasn't as hard done by as she seemed. But that 401 00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:02.799