Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Karen MARCIONI your host for the Hope Show,
Speaker 1: inspired by my book Hope How Other People Endure, which
Speaker 1: is about everyday people overcoming life's challenges. These are moments
Speaker 1: in life. There are moments in life that split time
Speaker 1: in two moments after which nothing will ever be the same.
Speaker 1: For my guest today, that moment came on a December
Speaker 1: morning in twenty twelve, when a gunman opened fire at
Speaker 1: Sandy Hook Elementary School. That day, Scarlet Lewis's precious son, Jesse,
Speaker 1: was taken from her in an act of unimaginable violence.
Speaker 1: But Scarlet's story is not defined by that tragedy. It
Speaker 1: is defined by what came after, by the choice she
Speaker 1: made when faced with the unimaginable and instead of anger,
Speaker 1: she chose compassion. Instead of fear, she chose courage, and
Speaker 1: instead of hatred, she chose love. Out of her deepest heartbreak,
Speaker 1: Scarlet created the Choose Love Movement, a mission that has
Speaker 1: touched me millions of lives and brought healing to hearts
Speaker 1: around the world. It reminds us that we cannot always
Speaker 1: control what happens to us, but we can choose how
Speaker 1: we respond. Today on the Hope Show, we'll talk about
Speaker 1: what it truly means to forgive, how love can emerge
Speaker 1: even from the ashes of loss, and how hope can
Speaker 1: survive when everything else seems gone. Because here on the
Speaker 1: Hope Show, we believe that every story of endurance, faith
Speaker 1: and courage lights the path for someone else still searching
Speaker 1: for hope in the dark. Welcome to the show, Scarlet.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Karen. It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker 1: We're honored to have you so Scarlet. If you can
Speaker 1: take us back to that morning in December twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: before everything changed. What do you remember vividly about Jesse,
Speaker 1: His smile, his spirit, the little things that made him
Speaker 1: so special to you?
Speaker 2: Gosh, I have a wonderful story from that morning, a
Speaker 2: morning just like every other, and everybody who's listening has
Speaker 2: these mornings every morning waking up as a single mom
Speaker 2: with two boys, and my older son went off to school.
Speaker 2: Jesse's dad was picking him up at the end of
Speaker 2: the driveway. I walked him out, holding his hand. I'm
Speaker 2: talking to his dad because we were going to be
Speaker 2: making gingerbread houses later that afternoon, and I had taken
Speaker 2: the afternoon off, which was something that I almost never did,
Speaker 2: so we were kind of coordinating efforts there. And I
Speaker 2: turned around to give Jesse a hug goodbye, and I
Speaker 2: noticed that he had written on the frost on the
Speaker 2: side of my car, I love you, and he had
Speaker 2: drawn hearts in all of my windows with his little
Speaker 2: feet nail. And you know, I really tried to be
Speaker 2: present with my kids. I enjoyed every moment, you know,
Speaker 2: that was humanly possible. And I realized in the moment
Speaker 2: that you know, this was, this was an amazing thing.
Speaker 2: So I said, Jesse, don't go anywhere. I ran inside,
Speaker 2: got my phone, came back out. Or remember taking him
Speaker 2: by the shoulders, putting him in front of this message,
Speaker 2: snapping a picture, and then doing a picture close up
Speaker 2: of the actual car with the message, gave him a
Speaker 2: big hug, loaded him into the car. That was the
Speaker 2: last picture ever taken of him and the last time
Speaker 2: that I saw him. Oh my gosh, wow. And what
Speaker 2: a message.
Speaker 1: You know, it's always it's so important to always let
Speaker 1: our children or our parents know we love them.
Speaker 2: Attention is the purest form of love. And what I
Speaker 2: say is that the best way to live your life
Speaker 2: with the fewest regrets is to be present with the
Speaker 2: ones that you love. And I mean lucky for me,
Speaker 2: this is sort of pre cell phones. I know, I
Speaker 2: ran in to get it in the house to take
Speaker 2: a picture, but this is before it was attached to
Speaker 2: us in our pocket, constantly calling for our attention, as
Speaker 2: are our children.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's so true. So when the world was watching
Speaker 1: Sandy hook in grief, your message of compassion stood out.
Speaker 1: How did you find the courage to speak publicly about
Speaker 1: love when you were still deep in your own pain.
Speaker 2: That's a great question. That's the number one question that
Speaker 2: I get. How did you go from grieving mom to
Speaker 2: starting an organization that focuses on love? And I'll tell
Speaker 2: you it was many things. Number one, my faith. I
Speaker 2: have a very strong faith that has just gotten stronger
Speaker 2: through this chapter of my life. Secondly, it was Jesse's
Speaker 2: example of courage. I found out very shortly after the
Speaker 2: tragedy that Jesse had stood up to the shooter who
Speaker 2: had just murdered his principal and guidance counselor right outside
Speaker 2: his door in the hallway, and then turned into his room, shooting,
Speaker 2: most likely killing his teacher who was standing behind him
Speaker 2: and his gun ran out of bullets and during the
Speaker 2: short delay, Jesse called for his friends to run. He
Speaker 2: literally sacrificed his life to save nine of his classmates.
Speaker 2: So nine classmates are alive today because of Jesse's brave actions.
Speaker 2: In fact, those nine graduated last June and gave Jesse
Speaker 2: a shout out in the medium. It's just absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2: And as a mom, when you hear that your six
Speaker 2: year old son is a hero, when he is honored.
Speaker 2: His funeral was literally a commander in chief funeral that
Speaker 2: is reserved for heads of state and returning war heroes
Speaker 2: because his first grade classroom was a literal war zone.
Speaker 2: When your six year old has this much courage, it
Speaker 2: definitely gives you the impetus to stand up in your
Speaker 2: own right. And the other thing is I knew that
Speaker 2: what happened at Sandy Hook was one hundred percent preventable. Yes,
Speaker 2: I'm still not sure why other people aren't just just
Speaker 2: yelling that from the rooftops. It's preventable. So I wanted
Speaker 2: to be part of the solution. I thought, you know,
Speaker 2: I quit my job with no experience in nonprofits. I
Speaker 2: started this nonprofit. I actually I actually was watching the
Speaker 2: reactions of the other of other people, Karen and I
Speaker 2: and I noticed, you know, after after the tragedy. For me,
Speaker 2: it's when the nation really polarized on the gun issue.
Speaker 2: You were either anti gun or pro gun and nothing
Speaker 2: was in between. And I thought, Okay, that's not going
Speaker 2: to solve the problem. Fighting against each other, you know, condemning, judging, blaming,
Speaker 2: finger pointing, fault finding like that is not solution oriented.
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to join that battle. I'm actually
Speaker 2: going to create something where both sides could potentially come
Speaker 2: together in something that we all have in common, and
Speaker 2: that's love. But every time I say that, I have
Speaker 2: this little like nudge from the back, I think it's
Speaker 2: it's Jesse going, mom, it wasn't your idea, And it
Speaker 2: absolutely wasn't my idea. I mean, I did feel compassion
Speaker 2: for Adam. I knew that anybody that could do something
Speaker 2: so heinous must have been in a tremendous amount of pain.
Speaker 2: I didn't know the pain, but that was obvious. And
Speaker 2: all of the blame was going towards towards either guns
Speaker 2: or Adam or Adam's mom Nancy. And I say their
Speaker 2: names because I want everybody to remember their human beings. Actually,
Speaker 2: you know, I say, there are two kinds of humans,
Speaker 2: good humans and good humans and pain. And so the
Speaker 2: blame was going all on Adam and Nancy, and I thought,
Speaker 2: in my mind, no, wait a minute, if it was
Speaker 2: all their fault, not, definitely their responsible and they should
Speaker 2: be held accountable. And Nancy was. She was murdered before
Speaker 2: Adam left that morning. Adam killed himself at the scene.
Speaker 2: But if it was all their fault, would it would
Speaker 2: never have happened before, and it had many many times,
Speaker 2: and it would never happen agains continued to happen. In fact,
Speaker 2: socials are escalating, and that can't be all Adam Lanza
Speaker 2: and his mom's fault. So immediately I went from you know, blaming,
Speaker 2: to realizing that, you know what, I have some responsibility
Speaker 2: in what happens in my son's school, which I hadn't
Speaker 2: previously contemplated. I was responsible really for his safety, health
Speaker 2: and well being wherever he was. And so, you know,
Speaker 2: and my thoughts and feelings and actions ripple out beyond
Speaker 2: me and they it makes a difference. And so I
Speaker 2: took my part of the responsibility for what happened that
Speaker 2: day as well as my part of the responsibility to
Speaker 2: be part of the solution. It was the best decision
Speaker 2: I've ever made, and looking at like now, I study
Speaker 2: the neuroscience behind choices and and you know, when we
Speaker 2: take responsibility for where we are and moving forward, it
Speaker 2: gives us our personal power and also hope right for
Speaker 2: better future. Right.
Speaker 1: I don't know of many people that would take responsibility
Speaker 1: for that. The action that happened that day, that was
Speaker 1: that is truly amazing.
Speaker 2: My part, my part of the responsibility. And I know
Speaker 2: this is the only thing that my mom and dad
Speaker 2: agreed on in the last thirty five years. They're divorced,
Speaker 2: but they said, you should never say that, and I said,
Speaker 2: you know what when you know, I don't want to
Speaker 2: be another victim of this tragedy. And I had a
Speaker 2: twelve year old son at the time, and I realized
Speaker 2: I was modeling as his only parent how to move
Speaker 2: through right difficulty, roadblocks all the way up to tragedy.
Speaker 2: He's watching me. So I had to be the highest
Speaker 2: and best version of myself. And what does that look like?
Speaker 2: Does that look like reacting in a situation with anger
Speaker 2: and hatred and revenge and blame and judgment, or does
Speaker 2: it look like choosing law of as a thoughtful response
Speaker 2: and right, amazing.
Speaker 1: And my next question was, you've said that this isn't
Speaker 1: a story about tragedy, it's a story about love. Yes,
Speaker 1: so can you share what choosing love truly means in
Speaker 1: the deepest sense.
Speaker 2: Yes, choose choosing. The superpower that we have as human
Speaker 2: beings is our ability to choose, from moment to moment,
Speaker 2: how we thoughtfully respond. You know, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2: Of course it matters, but I'm saying it's not so
Speaker 2: much what happens to us, because really bad things happen
Speaker 2: to good people every single day. Right, Yes, it's so true.
Speaker 2: Yet choose what happens to us. But we can take
Speaker 2: our personal power back and how we choose to thoughtfully respond.
Speaker 2: And so, you know, if you look at the neuroscience
Speaker 2: of the brain, it's fascinating. We're wired to defend ourselves
Speaker 2: something happens, and literally, you know, our brain can put
Speaker 2: up its dukes. It's metaphorical dukes. We can react in anger,
Speaker 2: and anger is fine, by the way, but it's prolonged
Speaker 2: anger and revenge that are the issue. And you know,
Speaker 2: we can we can circumvent that. We can choose love
Speaker 2: as a thoughtful response. That's when we take our personal
Speaker 2: power back. That's our highest and best version of ourselves.
Speaker 2: And you know, it goes all the way back to
Speaker 2: you know, those inmates that that didn't know they had
Speaker 2: a choice. What we're doing is teaching kids, Hey, life
Speaker 2: has pain in it. You know, the two things that
Speaker 2: you and I have in common. I don't know much
Speaker 2: about you, but I know that you have a want
Speaker 2: and need to love and be loved. And you also
Speaker 2: know that you felt pain in your life, physical, mental
Speaker 2: and emotional. I know that every child's going to feel that.
Speaker 2: So it's our duty to fortify our responsibility talking about responsibility,
Speaker 2: to fortify them with the essential life skills necessary that
Speaker 2: they can learn, grow and be strengthened by that pain
Speaker 2: instead of being taken down by it and others with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh so true. Those are powerful words, powerful words,
Speaker 1: and it's so true. And you don't know me, but yes,
Speaker 1: I've been through several different traumas in my life.
Speaker 2: But as has everyone listening. Absolutely, And you know, there's
Speaker 2: this concept we know, we all know PTSD post traumatic
Speaker 2: stress disorder, but when we look at the actual percentages
Speaker 2: of people that suffer from this, it's around seven percent
Speaker 2: that will experience PTSD at one point in their life.
Speaker 2: Seven percent, But over half of us experience something called
Speaker 2: post traumatic growth. That's when we learn and grow from
Speaker 2: our pain and the difficulties in our life. And so,
Speaker 2: rather than focusing on PTSD, which is what our brains
Speaker 2: would have us do with our negative bias exactly, we
Speaker 2: are teaching kids, Hey, there's this thing called post traumatic growth. This.
Speaker 2: You know, pain has a purpose in your life. It's
Speaker 2: there to help you grow. It does not take away
Speaker 2: the pain maybe the natural teacher, but it takes away
Speaker 2: some of the fear of the pain when we understand this,
Speaker 2: and fear is what inhibits healing and can even make
Speaker 2: pain worse.
Speaker 1: Right, yes, I can see that it can exacerbate that state.
Speaker 1: So forgiveness is almost something people struggle with, even in
Speaker 1: far lesser circumstances. We too, So how did you begin
Speaker 1: to move toward forgiveness and what helped you release the
Speaker 1: anger and fear that could have consumed you.
Speaker 2: You know what's so interesting. When I started, I used
Speaker 2: to say, oh, it's a formula, and it's so simple
Speaker 2: and easy. Right, So I've modified that a bit. It
Speaker 2: is a formula, but it's simple but definitely not easy, right,
Speaker 2: And there are a few steps before courage, I mean
Speaker 2: before forgiveness, and that is courage, having the courage to
Speaker 2: to even empathize with somebody that's hurt you, to to pause.
Speaker 2: We call this the choice moment, pausing in between what's
Speaker 2: happening and your response and getting curious about their point
Speaker 2: of pain. Because somebody who is mean or exhibits bullying behavior,
Speaker 2: they they have either experienced it themselves or they're in
Speaker 2: some amount of pain. You don't necessarily have to know
Speaker 2: what that pain is. But even that process of curiosity
Speaker 2: and wonder help you empathize to some degree, and it
Speaker 2: helps you move towards forgiveness. Forgiveness is not easy. If
Speaker 2: it was easy, everybody would do it, and the war
Speaker 2: and we'd have no wars. We'd have total peace, you know,
Speaker 2: we'd have we'd have complete safety. There was, you know,
Speaker 2: ubiquitous forgiveness and it was simple and easy. It's not,
Speaker 2: but it is available for everyone in every situation. I
Speaker 2: got a lot of flak, I'm sure or forgiving, you know,
Speaker 2: I had fingers. There are things that you forgive and
Speaker 2: things that you don't, and this is something that you don't.
Speaker 2: But what they didn't realize was the peace that I
Speaker 2: felt after forgiving. You know, it allowed me to be
Speaker 2: to take my power back, to be in control rather
Speaker 2: than being controlled by the incident that had passed and
Speaker 2: that was no longer happening. Obviously, it doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: I don't still feel pain or that I don't breathe
Speaker 2: for my son. I miss him every day. There's some
Speaker 2: point of every day that I shed tears for Jesse.
Speaker 2: I mean Halloween, I'm looking at the little kids that
Speaker 2: are trigger treating and you know that that just happened yesterday,
Speaker 2: and and you know I am. I am feeling nostalgic,
Speaker 2: and I'm feeling longing. But forgiveness allows me my power
Speaker 2: and enables me to move forward and be in control
Speaker 2: of what happens in my life and not a victim.
Speaker 2: And this was so important for me personally. It's what's
Speaker 2: enabled me to be a leader of a worldwide movement
Speaker 2: that talks about courage and gratitude and forgiveness and compassion.
Speaker 2: But I'll tell you it's not easy, and it's not
Speaker 2: that I don't struggle. It's interesting because you know, I
Speaker 2: forgave Adam immediately. I knew that he was in pain.
Speaker 2: I did not want him to have negative, continuing, negative
Speaker 2: influence on my life or my twelve year olds life.
Speaker 2: I knew that forgiveness cuts that cord that attaches us
Speaker 2: to anger and pain. But you know, there are situations
Speaker 2: that arise. Life throws you curveballs and it doesn't stop.
Speaker 2: Life is a playground for learning, and these just different situations.
Speaker 2: You know, even with my family, that's your family, are
Speaker 2: people that aren't supposed to hurt you. And so it's
Speaker 2: been a real challenge for me in certain situations to
Speaker 2: have forgiveness. So that's something that I've struggled with. But
Speaker 2: you know, it's doing the hard things and it's being
Speaker 2: the best version of yourself. If you don't do it
Speaker 2: for yourself, do it for your kids because they're watching learning, growing.
Speaker 2: And we know that trauma passes down seven generations. So
Speaker 2: be the one that chooses love and breaks that cycle
Speaker 2: of trauma. That is what I'm attempting to do. Wow.
Speaker 1: Wow, So some people might think that forgiveness means excusing
Speaker 1: what happened, but you've shown it's something much more powerful.
Speaker 1: And how would you explain forgiveness to someone who says
Speaker 1: they can't forgive, or or you know, the reaction from
Speaker 1: family when they say, how can you forgive? Yea, And
Speaker 1: when I've I've kind of told your story to people
Speaker 1: and they say I could never do that. You know,
Speaker 1: however you did and you got some flat for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. It's so interesting. Forgiveness is maybe one
Speaker 2: of the most misunderstood character values out there, abilities superpowers
Speaker 2: to get rid of pain. It's amazing. Even even the
Speaker 2: curriculum writers that I had in the second iteration of
Speaker 2: our program, we've had like four I remember reading one
Speaker 2: of the earlier editions of the Choose Love for school
Speaker 2: It was actually, yeah, choose Love for Schools, and the
Speaker 2: curriculum writers had said, forgiveness is saying it's okay when
Speaker 2: someone has hurt you. And we had an immediate call
Speaker 2: because I'm like, absolutely, you no know. I tried to
Speaker 2: be diplomatic. No, it's never okay when someone hurts you.
Speaker 2: You never say it's okay. And that is absolutely not
Speaker 2: what forgiveness means. And this is some of the resistance
Speaker 2: to teach forgiveness in schools because people just don't understand it.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean saying it's okay. It doesn't mean condoning
Speaker 2: the action. It doesn't even mean reconciliation. You know the
Speaker 2: fact that you have to reconcile with someone that hurts you.
Speaker 2: It simply it simply means that you take your personal
Speaker 2: power back, that you cut the cord that attaches you
Speaker 2: to pain. One of the first talks that I gave
Speaker 2: before I was really speaking publicly, was to a group
Speaker 2: of at risk kids and they wanted me to talk
Speaker 2: about forgiveness. So I was and one of the kids
Speaker 2: raised their hand and they said, could you show us
Speaker 2: what that means? And I said okay. So I felt
Speaker 2: like I was attached to the person who murdered Jesse
Speaker 2: by an umbilical chord. But it wasn't a chord that
Speaker 2: came out of my belly button. It came out of
Speaker 2: my side and into his side, and all of my
Speaker 2: personal power was draining out of me in the form
Speaker 2: of anger. Threw this chord and into Adam, and I
Speaker 2: was dragging him around with me. I was attached to
Speaker 2: him everywhere that I went because he was in control
Speaker 2: of my thoughts. I was thinking about him with anger, hatred,
Speaker 2: and revenge that directly impacted how I felt, and it
Speaker 2: also impacted my relationships, how I showed up with my son,
Speaker 2: and friendships and other people and my behaviors. And I said,
Speaker 2: the only way that I could disconnect, and really literally
Speaker 2: this is the only way, is through choosing forgiveness. And
Speaker 2: for me, it was like a set of scissors. I
Speaker 2: took those scissors and I cut that cord that attached
Speaker 2: me to my pain, to my source of pain, and
Speaker 2: it brought me back into the present moment where I
Speaker 2: was safe and where I had control of my thoughts, feelings,
Speaker 2: and actions that cognitive triangle. And it doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: I don't fall back into anger and resentment, because I
Speaker 2: do right and we will. However, it doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: you've failed, because once you start the forgiveness cycle, you
Speaker 2: cannot fail, which is the beautiful thing about forgiveness. You
Speaker 2: simply take a breath and forgive again. So you forgive,
Speaker 2: you do the initial forgiveness, you're already on the pathway.
Speaker 2: You're considering forgiveness. You're already on the pathway. You can't
Speaker 2: fail from there going forward. It is just a process,
Speaker 2: and it's a process depending on you know, what the
Speaker 2: herd is, what the event is, how it impacted you,
Speaker 2: your level of trauma. It's a process that you might
Speaker 2: have to do for the rest of your life. I
Speaker 2: will have to work on it for the rest of
Speaker 2: my life. But I tell you what that effort is worth,
Speaker 2: me having control of myself and becoming the highest and
Speaker 2: best version of myself. If I hadn't forgiven, if I
Speaker 2: had stayed stuck in anger, hatred and revenge, it would
Speaker 2: have impacted almost everything that I did going forward. I
Speaker 2: would have given my future of my best self away
Speaker 2: to this young man who was so disturbed that he created,
Speaker 2: he committed one of the worst mass murders in US history.
Speaker 2: Why would I do that? Well, I wouldn't do that
Speaker 2: if I knew what I was doing, and I had
Speaker 2: some skills and tools and awarenesses that could help me
Speaker 2: move beyond that. Right.
Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, truly truly amazing. Jesse's words nurturing, healing love
Speaker 1: have become a global message, and I find them amazing
Speaker 1: that they came out of a six year old. These
Speaker 1: words became the foundation of your mission.
Speaker 2: Choose Love.
Speaker 1: What did you research and develop to create this Choose
Speaker 1: Love program?
Speaker 2: I don't think I finished my thought previously when I
Speaker 2: said this, no, this whole choose love. You just finished
Speaker 2: it for me. But you brought me back. Okay, I said,
Speaker 2: this wasn't my idea, and it wasn't, because it was
Speaker 2: Jesse's chalkboard message that started all of this nurturing, healing love.
Speaker 2: Coming home a few days after the tragedy and seeing
Speaker 2: those three words written on my kitchen chalkboard, it was
Speaker 2: like a lightning bolt went through me. It was you know.
Speaker 2: First of all, I realized there was a spiritual awareness
Speaker 2: within Jesse that he wasn't going to be around for
Speaker 2: very much longer. That he meant that as a message
Speaker 2: of comfort for his friends, and it was, But I
Speaker 2: also knew that it was something more. I knew that
Speaker 2: it was where we needed to turn in order not
Speaker 2: just to survive, but to thrive. So I took that
Speaker 2: message and I spoke with doctoral professors and researchers and
Speaker 2: neuroscienists and all this and came up with a formula
Speaker 2: that helps return our personal power to us where we
Speaker 2: can have hope for a better future rather than becoming victimized,
Speaker 2: than helpless and possibly hopeless. And that formula is simple
Speaker 2: but as I said, simple isn't always easy and it's interesting.
Speaker 2: So for kids and adults, are what's literally called the
Speaker 2: locus of control, the location of our personal power. It
Speaker 2: vacillates throughout the day. When it's outside of us, we
Speaker 2: find us blaming other people for where we are. You know,
Speaker 2: we feel like, you know, we have no agency or
Speaker 2: little control over what happens in our lives. Things are
Speaker 2: happening to us. When it's inside of us, it's such
Speaker 2: an important concept. We feel like we have the power
Speaker 2: to make things happen for a better future. And this
Speaker 2: is you know, coming from two different is one's love
Speaker 2: and one's fear. And this formula helps us return that
Speaker 2: locus of control. So it starts with courage. It's the
Speaker 2: courage to be present, the courage to be aware of
Speaker 2: our thoughts that directly impact our feelings and behavior, and
Speaker 2: to understand that we have control over our thoughts. And
Speaker 2: to start with that, it is gratitude. It is a
Speaker 2: regular practice of gratitude that fortifies us from the inside
Speaker 2: out to better be able to handle difficulty with more
Speaker 2: strength and grace. It's forgiveness. It's the ability to be
Speaker 2: hurt but learn grow be strengthened by it, find meaning
Speaker 2: in the pain in some way, perhaps even a purpose.
Speaker 2: But the most important part is to harvest the gifts
Speaker 2: from that experience and let the pain go. And then
Speaker 2: its compassion and action is to take what we've learned
Speaker 2: and you use it to help other people. I believe
Speaker 2: that's why we're here. That is the definition of Choosing love,
Speaker 2: right right? Wow, So.
Speaker 1: Your movement is international and all over the world. And
Speaker 1: what have you learned from the children in practicing Choose
Speaker 1: Love philosophy in schools throughout the world.
Speaker 2: Oh well, and I have been throughout the world, and
Speaker 2: I just got back from visiting so many classrooms, and
Speaker 2: it's my favorite thing to do just to have student
Speaker 2: ambassadors lead me around to school asking them questions about
Speaker 2: how they use the Choose Love formula and what's their
Speaker 2: favorite character value, by the way, which forgiveness is most
Speaker 2: kids of all ages favorite character value, which blows me
Speaker 2: away to this day. It's not what I would have thought.
Speaker 2: But you know, you can teach forgiveness and kids understand it.
Speaker 2: It's us big kids that don't understand forgiveness. It's really powerful.
Speaker 2: They call it a superpower, you know. They have healthier friendships,
Speaker 2: they can resolve conflict using forgiveness. It's really amazing. But
Speaker 2: just to just to see the level of critical thinking
Speaker 2: that goes into utilizing the formula in their own lives
Speaker 2: and how they resolve issues themselves rather than relying on
Speaker 2: outside forces. How it moves way beyond kind of the
Speaker 2: the constructs that we've built in school to help kids
Speaker 2: be in control and and be kind. It's it's something.
Speaker 2: It becomes a language, it becomes a way of seeing,
Speaker 2: feeling and being in the world. It becomes a little
Speaker 2: bit of everything that you do, and it feels so good.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a neuroscientific aspect to this as well.
Speaker 2: When we're reactive in life, when we're kind of just
Speaker 2: reacting to things and not really thinking about it, we
Speaker 2: get hits of dopamine. When we defend ourselves, you know,
Speaker 2: when we're triggered and we react, maybe even meanly to behavior,
Speaker 2: we get a hit of dopamine. And that's a short
Speaker 2: blast of feeling good, but it never lasts, and it
Speaker 2: always makes us want to do more in that direction.
Speaker 2: But when we can pause and we call this the
Speaker 2: choice moment and thoughtfully respond with love, we get what's
Speaker 2: called the happiness quartette of neurochemicals. We get dopamine, which
Speaker 2: is the feel good neurochemical, but we also get oxytocin,
Speaker 2: which is the love hormone makes us want to reach
Speaker 2: out to others. We get serotonin, which is our body's
Speaker 2: natural mood stabilizer, and we get a hit a dose
Speaker 2: of endorphins, which is our body's natural painkiller. So when
Speaker 2: we have the ability and it is an ability to
Speaker 2: thoughtfully respond with love, we get the happiness quartet. So
Speaker 2: we get a lasting lift of feeling good because we
Speaker 2: truly are in control and being the highest and best
Speaker 2: version of ourselves. And you see how that can impact
Speaker 2: us in so many ways in our lives with healthier relationships.
Speaker 2: And of course, Harvard University's eighty five year longitudinal study
Speaker 2: called the Grant Study, longest ever study on human life.
Speaker 2: They followed three generations found the secret to happiness, which
Speaker 2: is meaningful connections, healthy relationships. How do we get that? Well,
Speaker 2: research tells us that it's practicing forgiveness.
Speaker 1: Right wow wow, So I am sure that this movement
Speaker 1: has also helped to continue your healing process even as
Speaker 1: you help others. So how has that helped.
Speaker 2: You, Karen. That is such an important point for all
Speaker 2: of your listeners and something that I didn't know either,
Speaker 2: that when we thoughtfully respond with love, when we have
Speaker 2: the courage to step outside of our own busyness, distraction,
Speaker 2: and even pain to help others, we help and heal ourselves.
Speaker 2: It's the research behind compassion. Can you imagine if everyone
Speaker 2: knew that when we serve others, we're serving ourselves as well.
Speaker 2: That's the research behind compassion. And it's such a beautiful
Speaker 2: symbiotic thing that when we do for others, it also
Speaker 2: ripples out. Others see it and they want to do it.
Speaker 2: So yes, So everything that I do every day, being
Speaker 2: on this podcast with you and sharing my story and
Speaker 2: what I've learned earned that is literally practicing compassionate action,
Speaker 2: and I am aware that it is helping and healing
Speaker 2: me too. There's more research from Harvard that says when
Speaker 2: we're aware of the benefits of what we do, we
Speaker 2: experience them on an exponential level. So there's just so
Speaker 2: much goodness in this and this is available to everyone,
Speaker 2: all ages and stages.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, truly amazing. Where has your faith guided you
Speaker 1: in this journey of forgiveness? And love.
Speaker 2: My faith has just gotten deeper and deeper. You know
Speaker 2: what's so amazing is that you know you have once
Speaker 2: something is passed, you can look in a rear view
Speaker 2: mirror and I see how God set me up to
Speaker 2: be able to get through this with strength. You know,
Speaker 2: He put things in place for me before the tragedy
Speaker 2: that I would never have even thought. If you had
Speaker 2: told me your son's going to die in six weeks,
Speaker 2: you better get ready, Well, I wouldn't know. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: have been so meticulous about what the things God you know,
Speaker 2: unknowingly to me, was putting in place, the people, places,
Speaker 2: and things that I would need to be able to
Speaker 2: move through this. You know, he He's with us, you know,
Speaker 2: in all aspects of our lives. But I don't think
Speaker 2: we often think about how He prepares us. And I mean,
Speaker 2: for instance, uh, six weeks before the tragedy, the boys
Speaker 2: were acting up at my brothers and I got mad,
Speaker 2: and so you know, I put them in the back
Speaker 2: of the car we left early, and I remember looking
Speaker 2: at my rearview mirror and I'm, you know, yelling at
Speaker 2: them go. You know sure I didn't know better, saying
Speaker 2: you know, we need a change in our lives. We
Speaker 2: need more God. We're going to start going to church,
Speaker 2: and you guys are going to Bible study. And we did.
Speaker 2: We went to my neighbor's church, this little church in
Speaker 2: Monroe around the corner from my house. Now, you don't
Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking about that then. But then when the
Speaker 2: tragedy happened, I had a home. I texted my neighbor.
Speaker 2: She said, the pastors right here will be right over.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have known even who to call for strength
Speaker 2: and comfort and advice from the Bible. And he showed
Speaker 2: up at my house because I had a relationship in place.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been able to find a church for
Speaker 2: a funeral because they were all taken. Think of the
Speaker 2: magnitude of the tragedy. There were twenty six victims. Of course,
Speaker 2: I say twenty eight because I've included from the beginning
Speaker 2: Adam and his mom. But you know, I was in
Speaker 2: this little safe environment, in this new church for me.
Speaker 2: They held a memorial service for Jesse. He died on
Speaker 2: a Friday on that Sunday, and this Sunday school teacher
Speaker 2: stood up and said, you know, Jesse was in my
Speaker 2: Sunday school class last week and I showed a video
Speaker 2: on the Life of Jesus, and she said, can you
Speaker 2: imagine trying to get kindergarteners and first writers who just
Speaker 2: want to play to sit down? She said, Jesse was
Speaker 2: in the front row, both little elbows on his knees,
Speaker 2: his chin in his hands, just intently listening to the
Speaker 2: life of Jesus like he wanted to know more. And
Speaker 2: that was so comforting to me in the moment, so
Speaker 2: like and more all of these things that were set
Speaker 2: up for me. It makes me feel so loved and
Speaker 2: so held. And I know that I was then, and
Speaker 2: I know that I am now, and I know that
Speaker 2: I will be in the future.
Speaker 1: That is truly an amazing story. And God always has
Speaker 1: a plan, it seems, and.
Speaker 2: You know, I just want to say one thing. One
Speaker 2: of the things that was said right after the tragedy
Speaker 2: is how could God let this happen? You know, but
Speaker 2: we have free will on earth and certainly God did
Speaker 2: not want, you know, this young child to be so
Speaker 2: hurt with so few skills that he grew into this
Speaker 2: young man who perpetrated a mass murder. That is not
Speaker 2: in God's will. But you know that was a series
Speaker 2: of mistakes and oversights and neglect that allowed that to happen.
Speaker 2: So you know, that wasn't God's doing, but God certainly
Speaker 2: was there, and he certainly, you know, he certainly made
Speaker 2: his presence known.
Speaker 1: Right. There are many people that I talked to when
Speaker 1: they say, when tragedy does happen, they don't understand why.
Speaker 1: But that's a question for when we get there, to
Speaker 1: ask God why.
Speaker 2: You know. And that's very true. And at the same time,
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of incredible things, you know, in
Speaker 2: movements that have sprung from that tragedy, including the Choose
Speaker 2: Love movement. And when I allow myself time to sit
Speaker 2: still and think about the enormous impact that Jesse's life
Speaker 2: has had on so many I can't tell you the
Speaker 2: number of kids and adults that have that have come
Speaker 2: up to me and said that Jesse's act of courage
Speaker 2: changed their life in profound ways, as well as the
Speaker 2: Choose Love movement and the things that they take away
Speaker 2: from that in their own life that they use every
Speaker 2: day that has transformed and even saved lives. So I
Speaker 2: can definitely say that the world is a better place
Speaker 2: because of that event, not despite it.
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, what message. I mean, you've shared so many
Speaker 1: messages today. If there's someone listening right now who was
Speaker 1: trapped in anger and in pain, someone who feels forgiveness
Speaker 1: is impossible, what message would you share with them?
Speaker 2: Forgiveness is possible for everyone. I would have them seek
Speaker 2: out a counselor that knows about forgiveness first. But I
Speaker 2: would also have them, you know they're if they're thinking
Speaker 2: about this and they want forgiveness, just just pause for
Speaker 2: a moment and think about how they're feeling now. Because
Speaker 2: if you continue to go down that cycle of anger
Speaker 2: and hatred and revenge, that is actually it occurs in
Speaker 2: the brain in the same place as addiction. It's literally
Speaker 2: an addiction, and it will make you feel worse, It
Speaker 2: will make you feel more anxious, and it will continue
Speaker 2: to weaken you. So if you are ready for a change, pause,
Speaker 2: get curious about forgiveness. Pick up a book, Maybe pick
Speaker 2: up Karen's book about forgiveness. Read stories about forgiveness that's
Speaker 2: called vicarious post traumatic growth. Read stories about people who
Speaker 2: have forgiven I have a book called Nurturing Healing Love,
Speaker 2: and it's about my journey of forgiveness as well. Read
Speaker 2: many stories because you can learn from people how they
Speaker 2: did it. You're going to see situations that were even
Speaker 2: worse than yours, where forgiveness freed that person from a
Speaker 2: lifetime of pain, and you'll see that it's possible. You'll
Speaker 2: take some skills and tools from those stories and read
Speaker 2: about it online. Now you can go online and you
Speaker 2: can learn about anything, and just realize that it is
Speaker 2: possible and that you will be freed from the anger,
Speaker 2: hatred and resentment that you feel right now. And the
Speaker 2: only way to break the cycle of that revenge is
Speaker 2: through forgiveness. I don't know any other way, and I've
Speaker 2: been researching this for the last twelve years. That's the
Speaker 2: only way. But the beautiful thing is it's a choice,
Speaker 2: and it's available for everyone in every circumstance to free
Speaker 2: themselves from the bondage of anger, hatred, and resentment and revenge.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Wow, very true.
Speaker 1: And her one of Scarlet's books I have here, which
Speaker 1: I just started reading, is truly amazing and has stories
Speaker 1: from people who have been through her program and have
Speaker 1: learned so much. If Jesse could speak to the world today,
Speaker 1: and I think your words kind of speak for him,
Speaker 1: but if he was here, what do you think he
Speaker 1: would want us all to know.
Speaker 2: I think he would want us all to know that
Speaker 2: we all have the capacity for the courage that he
Speaker 2: showed that day. Courage is like a muscle. We can
Speaker 2: practice it to strengthen it. And the courage that he
Speaker 2: would be talking about is the courage to be kind
Speaker 2: when someone's not being kind to us, the courage to
Speaker 2: do the right thing, the courage to tell the truth,
Speaker 2: the courage to show up and listen to someone else's
Speaker 2: opinion without to look for things that you didn't know,
Speaker 2: to learn and grow through differing opinions instead of getting
Speaker 2: triggered and reacting in hatred. He would say that we
Speaker 2: all have that capacity, and he would encourage people to
Speaker 2: practice that courage. He would say, Hey, look, I was
Speaker 2: only six and I saved nine of my classmates lives,
Speaker 2: and you can do it too. You can do it
Speaker 2: in how you show up in life and being the
Speaker 2: highest and best version of yourself. I know it's hard.
Speaker 2: I know it takes effort, but if it didn't, everybody
Speaker 2: would do it. So put the effort in. You have
Speaker 2: one life and you don't know you're living the dash now.
Speaker 2: You don't know when it's going to end, and Jesse
Speaker 2: is a great example of that. So get up every
Speaker 2: day determined to choose love as a thoughtful response in
Speaker 2: the face of whatever is happening. It will benefit you,
Speaker 2: and it will benefit everyone around you, and it will
Speaker 2: continue to ripple out to create a safer, more peaceful,
Speaker 2: and loving world.
Speaker 1: Wow, Scarlett, you've transformed unimaginable pain into a message of
Speaker 1: light and love. What do you hope people take away
Speaker 1: from your story not just about loss, but about how
Speaker 1: to truly live.
Speaker 2: I hope that people listen to my story and they
Speaker 2: understand that what I did as a normal human being,
Speaker 2: you know, completely flawed and just waking up every morning
Speaker 2: just like they are trying every single day. I hope
Speaker 2: they know that it's possible for them to and And
Speaker 2: really the formula and the choice moment model that I've
Speaker 2: talked about, So the formula courage plus gratitude plus forgiveness
Speaker 2: plus compassion and action plus that choice moment model. That
Speaker 2: choice moment is the space in between what's happening and
Speaker 2: our thoughtful response where we can choose, and we call
Speaker 2: it a heroic choice. Make a heroic choice of love
Speaker 2: in every response, not give our personal power away to
Speaker 2: the person who hurt us, but choose love. I want
Speaker 2: everybody to know that that's possible for them too. And literally,
Speaker 2: those two models are how I move through the tragedy
Speaker 2: to do what I did. But I use them every
Speaker 2: day because life continues to throw curveballs and different situations
Speaker 2: where where even I that choose love, Lady have to
Speaker 2: take out both those things and go, okay, how does
Speaker 2: this work in this situation? But without fail it does.
Speaker 2: And of course I always recommend a strong faith in
Speaker 2: God because that is number one. That's the number one
Speaker 2: most healing thing, and I know that it's available for everyone.
Speaker 2: That's the beautiful thing. It's just a choice away. So
Speaker 2: I hope everybody chooses love. I hope you help me
Speaker 2: spread the message. So it's not just cerebrally. It's not
Speaker 2: just like, Okay, I'm going to be thinking about this.
Speaker 2: It's actually in your actions. You make a decision, but
Speaker 2: then you have to act on it, and those actions
Speaker 2: have to be consistent. You make mistakes because we're humans
Speaker 2: and everybody does. I do too, But then you realize
Speaker 2: you have these skills and tools, this formula to help
Speaker 2: you get back on track. To being the best version
Speaker 2: of yourself every day, learning and growing every day, because
Speaker 2: that only stops, you know, when we leave this world.
Speaker 2: So every day is an opportunity for learning and growth,
Speaker 2: and that usually occurs during hurt and pain, So just
Speaker 2: keep that in mind.
Speaker 1: Wow. Thank you so much, Scarlet for joining us today
Speaker 1: and for your powerful messages of love, connection and hope
Speaker 1: and forgiveness. Thank you for reminding us that forgiveness isn't
Speaker 1: about forgetting what happened. It's about freeing ourselves from the
Speaker 1: chains of pain and fear. It's about choosing love even
Speaker 1: when it feels impossible. In her son Jesse's final message,
Speaker 1: Nurturing Healing Love, Scarlet found not just words but a calling.
Speaker 1: Through her mission, she's shown that love is stronger than hate,
Speaker 1: that hope can rise from heartbreak, and that one's courage
Speaker 1: can ripple out in to heal the world. If you're
Speaker 1: listening today and facing your own O storm, remember you
Speaker 1: don't have to have it all figured out. Hope often
Speaker 1: begins as a whisper, the decision to take one small
Speaker 1: step towards love, one small act of forgiveness, one small
Speaker 1: moment of grace. Scarlet's story is proof that we are
Speaker 1: never powerless no matter what life brings, because when we
Speaker 1: choose love, we choose life, and we choose hope. Thank
Speaker 1: you for joining us today on the Hope Show. If
Speaker 1: you have a story of resilience, healing or transformation, I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Remember, every story yours included,
Speaker 1: has the power to inspire, heal, and bring light into
Speaker 1: the world, and your journey could be the light someone
Speaker 1: needs today. Let's keep Hope alive together. This program is
Speaker 1: made possible through the support of our listeners, friends, and sponsors.
Speaker 1: If you would like to make a donation, please become
Speaker 1: or become an advertiser. Please click on my profile to connect, contribute,
Speaker 1: or share your story. Tune in to all the uplifting
Speaker 1: programs on Sosradio dot Live every Sunday starting at nine
Speaker 1: am Eastern Standard Time. I'm Karen MARCIONI be well, Stay hopeful,
Speaker 1: and until next week at three pm on Sosradio dot
Speaker 1: Live