Speaker 1: Podcast join host Hoho as he discusses the rimiting Netflix
Speaker 1: original series Black Mirror. Now Here he is Hoo hoo hoo.
Speaker 1: We're broadcasting from the Park Studio. Welcome to Black Mirror
Speaker 1: Podcast and as always, I'm your host, ho Ho. So,
Speaker 1: how y'all's doing. I hope you're doing good. I really do,
Speaker 1: because today we're going to be talking about the season finale,
Speaker 1: episode five, Season six, titled Demon seventy nine. Now, before
Speaker 1: we get into it, I gotta say spoiler alert. We
Speaker 1: are going to be talking about the episode, so if
Speaker 1: you haven't watched it yet, please head on over to
Speaker 1: Netflix check out that episode Demon seventy nine, and then
Speaker 1: come back over for a listency and joining the conversation.
Speaker 1: Have a good time with it. Definitely. Indeed, Now let's
Speaker 1: go ahead and get into it. But you know, we
Speaker 1: are going to be talking about the episode, but not
Speaker 1: a whole heck of a lot. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on that. What I want
Speaker 1: to talk about instead is the psychological dilemma that they
Speaker 1: bring up in this episode. And you know, they they
Speaker 1: really did a good job bringing this dilemma up, didn't they.
Speaker 1: I mean, they did a fantastic job they really did. Now,
Speaker 1: I got admit something to you. This episode wasn't exactly
Speaker 1: what I expected, I guess you can say. I mean,
Speaker 1: I really thought that with the title, it would be
Speaker 1: a little bit more darker than what it was, and
Speaker 1: it really wasn't, you know. But don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1: They did a really good job doing the episode. I
Speaker 1: was just expecting a little bit darker, you know, especially
Speaker 1: in the scene where the demon actually shows up and
Speaker 1: you see him for the first time. But there was
Speaker 1: I mean, like that was dark. You know. I really
Speaker 1: wish they would have lightened that up a little bit
Speaker 1: so that this way we can see what the demon
Speaker 1: really looked like, you know, I mean we get a
Speaker 1: hint of it, and you know, he looks typical demon
Speaker 1: fashion of what you would expect. But I just I
Speaker 1: wish that the lights were a little brighter so I
Speaker 1: can really get a good idea of what he looked like.
Speaker 1: But you know, that part kind of it kind of
Speaker 1: disappointed me. It really did. Another aspect of it that
Speaker 1: I wish that they did was, you know, I kind
Speaker 1: of was figuring that they would go the way of
Speaker 1: you know, well, they had a demon in there, you know.
Speaker 1: And I was halfway expecting them to throw an angel
Speaker 1: in there too, to kind of have that good versus
Speaker 1: evil demon and an angel type of a showdown, and
Speaker 1: they didn't do that. Now, Now, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: there's there is that struggle of good and evil, but
Speaker 1: it's more of an internal struggle that the main character, Nita. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Nita has to has to fight within herself, you know,
Speaker 1: she has to fight her own moral compass, you know.
Speaker 1: And and that how they ended up doing it. The
Speaker 1: moral struggle, the dilemma that they went ahead and they
Speaker 1: attacked in this episode. It wouldn't have worked if they
Speaker 1: throw if they threw an angel in there, it just
Speaker 1: it just wouldn't have worked, not the same, you know.
Speaker 1: But what is that moral dilemma? Well, in the episode
Speaker 1: and whenever the demon Gap I think was his name,
Speaker 1: Yep Gap, when the demon you know, made contact with Nita,
Speaker 1: he and this is of course once he hit, once
Speaker 1: he has been I guess you can say, for for
Speaker 1: a lack of better term, you know, set free. You know,
Speaker 1: he presents her with the very real dilemma, a choice
Speaker 1: if you will, and you know this choice in a
Speaker 1: matter of speaking, I got to be honest with you,
Speaker 1: It kind of reminded me of you know how the
Speaker 1: demons in you know, Jim Jim Butcher's The Dresden Files,
Speaker 1: the Order of the Black and Denarian Denarius, you know
Speaker 1: how they kind of did things a little bit. It
Speaker 1: kind of reminded me of that that whole you know,
Speaker 1: they're they're stuck in an a talisman and somebody has
Speaker 1: to touch it in order for them to gain access
Speaker 1: into that person, but they have to let you in.
Speaker 1: And I thought that, I thought that aspect that it
Speaker 1: kind of reminded me a little bit of that, and
Speaker 1: I thought that was still an interesting way to do it.
Speaker 1: How they did it, you know, it played out very well,
Speaker 1: it really did. But the choice that he presented her
Speaker 1: it hit me. I mean it really did. It hit
Speaker 1: me because you know, it was the the do nothing
Speaker 1: and there is an apocalyptic event, because what what the
Speaker 1: demon told her to do was sacrifice three people in
Speaker 1: three days, each having to be done before midnight in
Speaker 1: order to stop the apocalypse. And if she is able
Speaker 1: to do that, then you know, the demon can help
Speaker 1: her and no apocalypse, and of which case that's I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, you know, I mean, that's that's a
Speaker 1: that is a moral dilemma if I have ever seen
Speaker 1: one ever, you know, because Okay, so I'm I'm a
Speaker 1: fan of psychology, you know, I like psychology. I'm not
Speaker 1: a psychic, maybe a psycho, I'm you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist by any stretch of the imagination. But those
Speaker 1: type of things intrigued me, and they have for a
Speaker 1: very long time, they really have. And you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know if this is like basically something that they
Speaker 1: do with people that go into the CIA, or whether
Speaker 1: it's something that you know, they do with people going
Speaker 1: into you know, into the FBI, but they pose a
Speaker 1: question to them, okay, and and kind of I guess
Speaker 1: what they're trying to measure is, you know, whether or
Speaker 1: not somebody's a psychopath and or different things of that nature.
Speaker 1: Because it truly is a hard dilemma. It is a
Speaker 1: moral dilemma, and it really is a difficult one. You know.
Speaker 1: The kind of the how they play it out is
Speaker 1: you got a train barreling down the tracks, okay, and
Speaker 1: if you do nothing, then the train will stay on
Speaker 1: the tracks that it's on and it will run into
Speaker 1: you know, take your pick a school bus full of children,
Speaker 1: a you know, a vehicle filled with a family of people,
Speaker 1: you know, for sake people however many want to throw
Speaker 1: in there. Or you have the choice to you know,
Speaker 1: grab a hold of the handle and turn it to
Speaker 1: where the train goes down a different set of tracks,
Speaker 1: and of which case tied on those tracks is or
Speaker 1: on the tracks is a vehicle with one individual in it.
Speaker 1: And so your moral dilemma is do you make the
Speaker 1: choice to do nothing and kill a bustload of children,
Speaker 1: or do you take action, change the tracks that the
Speaker 1: train is going to go down and kill one person.
Speaker 1: That's the moral dilemma. Now, if you're anything like me,
Speaker 1: you know, whenever I kind of played that mental game
Speaker 1: within my own head, and this happened long before I
Speaker 1: seen this episode. But when you play that, you know,
Speaker 1: play that game in your own head, I mean the
Speaker 1: rational aspect of your mind, the logic portion of your
Speaker 1: brain is like absolutely, you know, you take action, you
Speaker 1: kill the one, the one person dies, and you save
Speaker 1: the many. So you know, you sacrifice the few to
Speaker 1: save the many. And that was the moral you know,
Speaker 1: the moral dilemma that the main character Nita was posed with.
Speaker 1: You know, that's what it amounted to. It sacrifice the
Speaker 1: few to save the mini. And it was done like
Speaker 1: more or less in the same way, because it was
Speaker 1: a dude, nothing and you know, millions of people die
Speaker 1: or you know, you do what you need to do.
Speaker 1: You sacrifice the three people on the three days, and
Speaker 1: then all is well, apocalypse doesn't happen, you know, and
Speaker 1: moral dilemma, holy crap. But I tell you what though,
Speaker 1: you know, like I was saying, the rational mind, it's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, absolutely, you know, you sacrificed a few for
Speaker 1: you know, to save the many, and that's of course
Speaker 1: what you do. But and here's the thing, and this
Speaker 1: is how they you know, one of the things about
Speaker 1: this episode that they do brilliantly is she struggles with it,
Speaker 1: doesn't she. I mean, she really really struggles with it
Speaker 1: so much to where, you know, it's like the first
Speaker 1: person that she ended up killing it was the demon
Speaker 1: had to show her who the person was before she
Speaker 1: can even remotely become okay with it. And then the
Speaker 1: second person was, you know, a murderer. The third person
Speaker 1: was his brother, and that was more more of a
Speaker 1: you know, save yourself to take care of that, which
Speaker 1: ended up playing on her behalf, because if she hadn't
Speaker 1: done that, then you know, apocalypse would not have been avoided.
Speaker 1: And then she went out and she changed during the
Speaker 1: process of this, right, I mean, how could how could
Speaker 1: doing something like this not change you? And it did,
Speaker 1: I mean it very much, because she went from being
Speaker 1: a you know, being a nice kind of quiet. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say timid, but I mean she was
Speaker 1: definitely quiet. She was a helpful person, but she was
Speaker 1: she was just quiet. She did her job. I mean, granted,
Speaker 1: she fantasized about doing some stuff, and I cheered a
Speaker 1: little bit, you know, whenever she took her her coworker's head,
Speaker 1: her face, whenever she was being all rude and mean
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and just took it and smashed it into
Speaker 1: the display case, breaking the glass, getting cutting all cutting
Speaker 1: her face all up. I was like, yes, you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit of cheering going on, I got, admit.
Speaker 1: So she had that darkness in her, she really did,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't something that she acted upon her. At least,
Speaker 1: we don't get the hint of that in this episode.
Speaker 1: We don't get that, you know, we don't get that hint.
Speaker 1: We don't get that it just it doesn't seem like her.
Speaker 1: She's more passive aggression. I guess she can say maybe.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it was it changed her, you know,
Speaker 1: because it took something away from her and in a
Speaker 1: matter of speaking, and I don't know if it did,
Speaker 1: I can't really say either way, but I don't think
Speaker 1: she even realized what was going to happen. I don't
Speaker 1: think she was prepared for that aspect of it, how
Speaker 1: much it was actually going to change her. And it
Speaker 1: seemed like it really did, you know, It really seemed
Speaker 1: like it changed who she was because you know, like
Speaker 1: once she got to a point to where she was
Speaker 1: a little bit more comfortable with what she was doing,
Speaker 1: you know, not that you know it's it was also
Speaker 1: almost an aspect of it, at least at the end,
Speaker 1: with the with the last person that she decided to
Speaker 1: sacrifice for for the greater good. It was almost that
Speaker 1: Hitler type of a question, you know. I mean if
Speaker 1: you heard that one post, you know, if if you
Speaker 1: were able to go back in time, knowing what you
Speaker 1: know about you know, Hitler and with with all the
Speaker 1: people that of deaths that he was he would orchestrate,
Speaker 1: would you go back and kill baby you know, baby
Speaker 1: baby Hitler, you know, and of which case you would
Speaker 1: say that, no, absolutely not, you wouldn't do it because
Speaker 1: it's a baby. Baby Hitler is innocent. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, you also know that in the future he's
Speaker 1: going to do some really, really bad stuff. At this point,
Speaker 1: he hasn't he hasn't orchestrated anything, his decisions hasn't changed anything.
Speaker 1: But yet you still have that same type of moral dilemma,
Speaker 1: and that when she ends up going through as well.
Speaker 1: So I mean, it's not only the moral dilemma of
Speaker 1: you know, saving sacrificing the few to save the many.
Speaker 1: It was also the you know, in a matter of speaking,
Speaker 1: it was it was the the baby Hitler moral dilemma.
Speaker 1: And by the time she got to the baby Hitler
Speaker 1: moral dilemma, it was very much I mean like it
Speaker 1: was already changing her. It was already you know, but
Speaker 1: she chose the the baby Hitler. In this case, it
Speaker 1: was a Michael smart As who it was a politician
Speaker 1: that was going to orchestrate, to basically orchestrate the death
Speaker 1: of many people, and she was like, I choose him
Speaker 1: as the third and final sacrifice, you know, And it
Speaker 1: It was very telling and I wasn't surprised whenever I
Speaker 1: seen this, But the demon tried to talk her out
Speaker 1: of it. It's like, no, you know, my you know,
Speaker 1: the Home office is going to be you know, kind
Speaker 1: of upset about this one because you know, although Michael
Speaker 1: Smart has not killed anybody, which disqualifies them from you know,
Speaker 1: counting as one of the sacrifices, it was. He's he's
Speaker 1: a team player, you know. They want to keep him
Speaker 1: in play. They don't want to they don't want him
Speaker 1: to be sacrificed because they don't really consider that a sacrifice,
Speaker 1: you know. But she's like, oh no, this is who
Speaker 1: I'm doing. This is how it's going to happen. He's
Speaker 1: not disqualified. This is what's going to happen. And you know,
Speaker 1: again this ordeal changed her, and the change really happened
Speaker 1: whenever for her own safety she had to sacrifice. Well,
Speaker 1: she didn't know it was a sacrifice at the time,
Speaker 1: you know, or at least that wasn't her motivation behind it.
Speaker 1: But Keith, the person who murdered his wife, you know,
Speaker 1: the victim number two. She didn't know that that wouldn't
Speaker 1: count in her favor. Something that we learned after the fact.
Speaker 1: And then Keith's brother Chris shows up and you know,
Speaker 1: again for her own safety, so that this way she
Speaker 1: wouldn't be spotted at the scene of a crime. She
Speaker 1: killed him too, which was a sacrifice that counted in
Speaker 1: her favor, and you know, thankfully for her and for
Speaker 1: you know, everybody else. I guess you can say he
Speaker 1: died just before midnight, like he died, took his last breath,
Speaker 1: and then bammed the clock strikes twelve, and it was
Speaker 1: it was wow. She she got lucky on that one,
Speaker 1: didn't she She did. But this episode having two separate,
Speaker 1: very big, significant psychological plays of a moral dilemma with
Speaker 1: sacrifice in the few to save the many, and then
Speaker 1: the question of baby Hitler, It's like, wow, I mean,
Speaker 1: I got admit, I wasn't quite prepared for that. It
Speaker 1: wasn't something that I was expecting. It really wasn't. I
Speaker 1: was expecting a different type of a show, you know,
Speaker 1: I was. I was expecting something a little bit more dark,
Speaker 1: and you know, they kind of snuck these moral dilemmas
Speaker 1: in on you. I mean, I didn't really see him
Speaker 1: coming at first. It wasn't until after the fact that
Speaker 1: I that I was able to kind of think about
Speaker 1: the episode a little bit more that I was really like, oh,
Speaker 1: holy cow, they got me because I didn't see it coming.
Speaker 1: You know. Again, it wasn't until after the fact that
Speaker 1: I put two and two together and it was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: they snuck that one in on me. I was impressed.
Speaker 1: I really was. And so with the first moral dilemma,
Speaker 1: you know, the sacrificing the few to save the many.
Speaker 1: You know, now, like I was saying earlier, the rational mind,
Speaker 1: the logical mind knows what decision I would, I would
Speaker 1: I would make. I would have to make this decision,
Speaker 1: you know, I I know and I understand that I would.
Speaker 1: And that's the logical rational mind. And you know that
Speaker 1: the caveat in there is you have no option, see right,
Speaker 1: You can't sacrifice yourself. And it's one of these two scenarios.
Speaker 1: You know, either it's the bus or it's the you know,
Speaker 1: the bus full of children or a single individual. There
Speaker 1: is no option, see you know, it's either do nothing,
Speaker 1: which is making a choice and a lot of people die,
Speaker 1: or do something act You're taking physical responsibility for the
Speaker 1: decision that you are making. And one person, you know,
Speaker 1: there is no option, see, and that's always a caveat
Speaker 1: that's in this type of a scenario, that's the caveat,
Speaker 1: and that was the caveat in this episode. That's the
Speaker 1: caveat that Nita had to decide. She had to do that.
Speaker 1: So the rational mind, I know what decision I at
Speaker 1: least should make. The question is would I be able
Speaker 1: to make it? You know, because that really is the question,
Speaker 1: isn't it. I mean it's yes, it's easy to say,
Speaker 1: you know, as a hypothetical, that this is what you
Speaker 1: would do. It's really easy to say that. You know everybody,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody has a plan until they get punched
Speaker 1: in the face. You know, that's something that you know,
Speaker 1: Mike Tyson says about his boxing career. You know, everybody's
Speaker 1: got a plan until they get pushed in the face.
Speaker 1: And I just throws the plan right out of the water.
Speaker 1: So yeah, my rational logical mind knows that this is
Speaker 1: the way to go. However, would you actually be able
Speaker 1: to do it? And I can't answer that one. I mean,
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest with you, I couldn't. I can't
Speaker 1: answer that. It be hard, you know, it really would
Speaker 1: And would I walk away from that unscathed mentally emotionally,
Speaker 1: how you know would I be able to walk away
Speaker 1: from that unscathed? And I don't think I would, you know,
Speaker 1: I really don't. I mean, I don't. I don't know
Speaker 1: as if I would fare any better than what Nita did.
Speaker 1: I don't see how anybody could walk away from that unscathed,
Speaker 1: because either way you look at it, whether it's through
Speaker 1: cowardice and doing nothing that a lot of people die,
Speaker 1: or whether it be through your own hands somebody else
Speaker 1: that you're responsible for somebody's death, either way you look
Speaker 1: at it, you know it's almost one of them things
Speaker 1: that there's no right answer, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: But again, the rational mind, yes, I can rationalize that
Speaker 1: it makes sense, and that's that's exactly what I know
Speaker 1: I would do, however, or at least I know I
Speaker 1: should do. However it would change me. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: as if, I don't know what type of decision I
Speaker 1: would make on that one. I really don't. I don't.
Speaker 1: I man moral dilemma, holy crab, because that's where the
Speaker 1: rubber beats the road, right. It's one thing to have
Speaker 1: the theory, the thought exercise. It's another to actually have
Speaker 1: to do it. Wow. And then so is that something
Speaker 1: that you think you would be able to do? Do
Speaker 1: you think you would do it any different than how
Speaker 1: Nita did it? You know, if you were pose with
Speaker 1: that same question, the sacrificing of the few to save
Speaker 1: the many? Do you you know? One, which do you
Speaker 1: think would be the right way to go? And two
Speaker 1: would you be able to do it? And like I
Speaker 1: said before, there is no option. See which would you
Speaker 1: be able to do? Let me know. I'm curious, I
Speaker 1: really am, you know, Send me an email. Ho Ho
Speaker 1: at the Black Mirror podcast or Black Mirror podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: Send me an email because I'm interested. I want to
Speaker 1: know these things I really do. And then moral dilimma
Speaker 1: number two, the baby Hitler dilimma, because this is kind
Speaker 1: of okay, this is how it plays out with me,
Speaker 1: all right, because it's like, yes, the rational mind knows
Speaker 1: that going, you know, it knows the atrocities that Hitler committed,
Speaker 1: knows what he did, knows that he basically tried to
Speaker 1: exterminate an entire group of people. You know, the Holocaust
Speaker 1: was an ugly thing, it really was, and it's hard
Speaker 1: to grasp the true impact that it had until you
Speaker 1: go to to some of these places and you see
Speaker 1: you know, the Museum of It, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: it puts it I've never been, but from what I've
Speaker 1: heard of people describing it that it puts a whole
Speaker 1: new depth of reality into for you, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: it really changes your perspective on it, you know. And
Speaker 1: so going back in time, the rational mind knows that, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a person whom will do all these things.
Speaker 1: It's not a question. You know, it's not a question,
Speaker 1: it's an answer. You've lived the future, You've experienced the future.
Speaker 1: You know that this is what he's going to do. However,
Speaker 1: you book, you go back in time to baby Hitler.
Speaker 1: Baby Hitler isn't guilty of anything. Baby Hitler hasn't done anything.
Speaker 1: We're talking like, you know, we'll go with like three,
Speaker 1: between three and five years old, Okay, old enough to
Speaker 1: walk around. You know, he's starting to show his personality,
Speaker 1: but he's still a kid. He's still a young child.
Speaker 1: He's still innocent of the atrocities that he will commit
Speaker 1: later on down the road. Would you be able to
Speaker 1: do it? Yeah, rationally, you know what the correct answer
Speaker 1: would be. Logically, you know what the right move is
Speaker 1: to be. But when push comes to shove, when you're
Speaker 1: actually forced to take action, do nothing. Many people die
Speaker 1: or the sacrifice of one, but you're the one that
Speaker 1: has to act on that. Wow. Again, I don't know
Speaker 1: because the baby hasn't done anything wrong yet. I mean,
Speaker 1: these are moral dilemmas huge, and Nita had to face
Speaker 1: two of some of the hardest ones to face, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, Wow, dude, this episode caught me by surprise.
Speaker 1: It really did, because those moral dilemma things, they caught
Speaker 1: me off guard. I wasn't expecting it. Holy crap. It
Speaker 1: was a good episode, you know. I was expecting something different.
Speaker 1: I wished it would have been a little darker than
Speaker 1: what it was. But they got their point across, didn't they.
Speaker 1: So let me know what you think. You know, how
Speaker 1: logical and rational are you? Do you think you would
Speaker 1: be able to do it? Do you not? Or maybe,
Speaker 1: considering the topic, maybe you should just keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but either way you look at it,
Speaker 1: let me know. Send me an email at ho Ho
Speaker 1: at the at Hoho at Black Mirror podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: Let me know what you would do. Either way. I'm
Speaker 1: curious I want to know anyway. You know, I appreciate
Speaker 1: y'all stopping by taking a list, and I really do.
Speaker 1: I appreciate each and every one of you. It means
Speaker 1: a lot to me, it really does. So with this
Speaker 1: being the season finale in two to three weeks, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be doing a recap, talking about the season
Speaker 1: in its entirety and even trying to come up with,
Speaker 1: you know, my favorite episode, my top two, maybe a
Speaker 1: ranking of all of them, whichever the case may be.
Speaker 1: So that was going to be getting released in the
Speaker 1: next two to three weeks. And I also have some
Speaker 1: good news. They are releasing a season seven sometime in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I'm not really sure what the day
Speaker 1: is of when they plan on releasing it. I don't
Speaker 1: know how far into production they are. I really didn't
Speaker 1: read that much into it, and so far, Charlie Booker
Speaker 1: has been pretty quiet on things, and so quiet in fact,
Speaker 1: the only things that we know about season seven is
Speaker 1: that they plan on doing a USS Callister sequel. That
Speaker 1: ought to be interesting. I really did enjoy that episode.
Speaker 1: And we have a list of actors that are going
Speaker 1: to be appearing in season seven other than that they've
Speaker 1: been pretty quiet about it, so I'm excited to see
Speaker 1: what they come up with. I'll be waiting for whenever
Speaker 1: season seven releases, and holy col Yeah, I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to it, I really am. But we'll be talking about
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff as well, going through the different
Speaker 1: actors and you know, maybe what we can expect in
Speaker 1: the next season. But until then, y'alls have yourself a
Speaker 1: good one. Thank you for stopping by, and I will
Speaker 1: see you in the next one. Thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to the Black Mirror podcast. If you would like to
Speaker 1: join the conversation, you can comment on this episode a
Speaker 1: spreaker dot com or go to the ho host show
Speaker 1: dot com, Forward, slash form, and the discussion board for
Speaker 1: this s