WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:06.040 in the True Story FM Family of Entertainment podcast. Hey 3 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:08.320 there are true believers. Andy Nelson here from the Marvel 4 00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:10.839 Movie Minute podcast with the rest of the team Mate right, 5 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:14.839 Kyle Wilson, Rob Cobosco, and Matthew Fox. This is the 6 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:18.199 podcast where we dissect the Marvel cinematic universe, one minute 7 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:22.199 at a time, exploring every detail of this epic superhero franchise. 8 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:25.000 In our season looking at iron Man three, we're gonna 9 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:25.760 mix things up a bit. 10 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:28.079 That's right, Rob and I are your guide, but instead 11 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:30.679 of our usual minute by minute format, we dive into 12 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:33.320 five minutes of the film in each weekly episode. 13 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:36.079 It's a totally new approach, but one that still allows 14 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:39.119 us to explore all the depth and detail that makes 15 00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:42.880 these movies so special, even if Ironman three isn't. 16 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:44.000 All that's special. 17 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:50.079 Hold on, that's where you're wrong. Extrememists Shane Black, Yeah. 18 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:51.840 Would you like to look at the Mandarin and Maya Hanson. 19 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:56.200 So, whether you're a die hard Marvel fan or just 20 00:00:56.600 --> 00:01:00.039 love deep dives into movies, there's something for everyone on 21 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:03.039 Marvel Movie Minute. Suit up and join us on this 22 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:06.000 epic audio adventure. You can find us at true story 23 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:08.920 dot fm or by searching Marvel Movie Minute on your 24 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:10.319 favorite podcatcher. 25 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:13.239 Because in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, every minute is packed 26 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:13.920 with excitement. 27 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:15.159 Enough sid. 28 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:23.159 Well, howdy folks. My name is Lester Ryan Clark, and 29 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.920 I'm Keenandias, and we're the hosts of The Exorcist Minute, 30 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:28.879 a show where we examine, extrapolate, and excavate the scariest 31 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:29.560 movie of all time. 32 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:32.719 Each episode covers a single minute of William Friedkin's nineteen 33 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:34.879 seventy three horror masterpiece, The Exorcist. 34 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:37.439 If you like deep dives, this show is the deepest. 35 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:40.319 Did you know the film's iconic theme song, Jubular Bells 36 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:42.400 wasn't written specifically for the movie, Or that. 37 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:44.760 The nineteen seventy three audience members were throwing up and 38 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:46.879 fainting in the theater before they ever got a glimpse 39 00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:47.239 of the demon. 40 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:50.239 What about all the crazy onset mishaps, cast injuries the 41 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:51.799 director of firing real guns? 42 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:53.959 Ever, wonder where weedi boards came from or how they 43 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.879 got their name. How about some history on the Catholic 44 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:58.480 Church or the Roman rite of exorcism, or maybe we 45 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:01.120 can tempt you with some juicy demonology. Lourder, did you 46 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:03.560 know that Bazuzu had an ex wife? Find the Exorcist 47 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:05.879 Minute on iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to 48 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:08.759 your shows, or at the Exorcist Minute dot com. Until 49 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:09.840 next time, folks. 50 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:11.680 The power of the Exorcist compels you. 51 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:18.639 Happy New Year, Superhero Ethics fans. As it is the 52 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:20.719 new year, we're just coming off the holidays, we have 53 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:22.520 not recorded an episode for this week. We're giving you 54 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:25.560 a rebroadcast of one of our favorite episodes on Echo, 55 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:29.800 the TV show Amputation and Intersectionality. This one felt particularly 56 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:32.319 appropriate since we just talked about Pray a few weeks 57 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:36.319 ago and Native American representation in that movie and in 58 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:39.520 other things, and Echo without being such an important factor 59 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.400 as well, felt like a great thing to rebroadcast. We're 60 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:44.120 still finishing up with the holidays. We'll be back to 61 00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:46.039 you with new episodes next week. For now, hope you 62 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:48.159 enjoy this, Hope you had a very happy holiday, and 63 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:58.759 looking forward to talking to you in the new year. Hello, 64 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:02.039 and welcome to this special bonus episode of Superhero Ethics. 65 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:04.919 Friends were, for the most part, keeping to our bi 66 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:08.439 weekly schedule, but a show came out that is so 67 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:10.719 important to me and that I really loved and I 68 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:13.120 really wanted to watch and talk about. And my good 69 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:18.120 friend Will Freeland, Marvel Comics expert extraordinaire who's been on 70 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:20.240 this podcast a bunch of times, is back to talk 71 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:23.039 with me, and we're probably gonna do a number of 72 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:27.520 different episodes about this show because it has topics and 73 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.439 characters that really just like Echo through all of the 74 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:33.400 things that I love, and I promise that will be 75 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:36.360 I can't say the last bad pun I'm gonna make 76 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:38.800 about Echo, but probably one of them, hopefully it'll be 77 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:40.319 the last one, because there's really so much for me 78 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:44.000 to talk about here. Let's talk about Echo. It just 79 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:48.520 came out. My friend Will Freeland has watched it as 80 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.840 if I will welcome say a bit about who you are. 81 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:53.719 Hi, thank you for having me. 82 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:57.400 My name is Will Freeland. I'm all over the place 83 00:03:57.400 --> 00:03:59.319 on the internet as Silver Dreamers, Silver. 84 00:03:59.080 --> 00:03:59.560 Earth a Y. 85 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.240 I also have a podcast called Hype is My Superpower. 86 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:06.800 Me and Steve Storman, who's also been on the pod 87 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:11.120 and also have had superhero ethics. On our pod, we 88 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:16.560 talk about primarily majority of Marvel comics and whatever. 89 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:16.959 Comics. 90 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:20.199 It's it's kind of like a really fun book club 91 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:22.639 just talk about commentary read each week. 92 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:24.959 I love it. I love it. I love it. You 93 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:27.959 mentioned that the book club aspect. We're actually be doing 94 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:29.959 some book clubs here on the podcast that I'll talk 95 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:31.920 about in just a minute. But let me actually just 96 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:34.600 ask you first straight out, Will, what do you think 97 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:35.000 of the show? 98 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:38.120 I really I liked it. It was it was fun. 99 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:46.120 It they added so much that's totally fine. It's not 100 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.439 a it's not a problem. The very first scene of 101 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:52.439 the show completely threw me off. I didn't know what 102 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:57.079 was happening. It kind of had eternal vibes for me, 103 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:03.079 like just what is it so confused? But overall, honestly, 104 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:06.920 I had a great time with the show. The I 105 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.480 don't think there's a single side character that I didn't like. 106 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:15.319 The humor was well placed and well timed. It wasn't 107 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:18.480 over the top, and each character kind of had their 108 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:19.439 moment of like. 109 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:23.279 It was captivating. I was binging this. 110 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:26.680 Thing at like three in the morning and I was 111 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:32.160 completely wide awake for it. And it's it's worth the 112 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:34.000 five episode sit down. 113 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:34.920 It was great. 114 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.759 Yeah, it really is it really is. And for me 115 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:40.639 as an amputee, obviously, this is a show that this 116 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:42.720 is a character that really resonated with me that I 117 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:45.160 was so excited about that I was so nervous about 118 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.519 and it really hit on every cylinder. And I'm going 119 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:52.120 to talk about that a lot particularly, and it has 120 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:54.199 meant so much to me that I was able to 121 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:59.439 kind of take this feeling of, you know, I'm an amputee, 122 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:02.160 I'm seeing my self on screen. I'm seeing the issues 123 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:04.319 I go with from like the larger stuff, but just 124 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:06.480 the moment to moment stuff that most people don't think about. 125 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:08.959 I'm seeing that on screen, and then they're gonna go 126 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:12.240 online and hear you know, from deaf people, from Native people, 127 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:15.839 from women, from so many others who saw themselves in this. 128 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:18.519 In many ways, I feel like this is a kind 129 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:21.360 of a masterclass on intersectionality in terms of what we 130 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:23.720 got in this show, and we'll talk about all that, 131 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.560 but also it was I've seen shows that try to 132 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:29.959 be like, we're going to be social justice and we're 133 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:32.560 gonna check this box and this box and this box, 134 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:35.920 and they forget to actually be a good show. And 135 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.199 this isn't that, Like from the moment, like. The fight 136 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:42.879 scenes are very well choreographed, the history and background is 137 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:48.120 interially done, all of the characters are engaging. Yeah, I 138 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.519 just everything about it. And I will admit I've had 139 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:55.920 some superhero fatigue recently, and even some I know, hard 140 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:58.680 to say to some folks out there, but some Marvel fatigue. 141 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:01.959 I haven't watched it Invasion, I haven't watched Loki season two. 142 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:05.480 Some of the other stuff that i'd seen was the 143 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:07.160 I've heard Loki season two is pretty good. I just 144 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:09.519 didn't like Look season one. That's a whole other matter. 145 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:17.199 But uh yeah, I just more than anything, I think 146 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:20.639 I walked away from this thinking the Marvel Netflix universe 147 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:23.240 is back, you know, not that it's quite the same. 148 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:25.920 And I we can talk about continuity in a minute, 149 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:27.360 because I think they made it pretty clear that this 150 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.639 is not the same continuity as the Marvel Netflix universe, 151 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.199 but the tone of it. Kingpin felt much more like 152 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:38.319 Kingpin than he did in the Hawkeye show freaking as 153 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:41.439 Daredevil was back, which I granted from a small scene, 154 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:45.279 but I had no idea. Yeah, this just it felt 155 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:48.160 like Marvel, like the spirit of the Marvel MC the 156 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:49.959 Netflix MCU was back. 157 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:52.240 I absolutely agree. 158 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:57.600 I it's funny because and you know, the first like 159 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.800 twenty minutes of the first episode is the one that 160 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:04.680 has all of the like cameos outside of KINGVN has 161 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:09.160 like the cameos and like the flashbacks and like the cool, fun. 162 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:10.879 Holy crap and Starry Double kind of stuff. 163 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:17.839 And Yep, that is exactly what I've been saying Marvel's 164 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:21.759 never gonna do. And so I'm so happy that they 165 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:23.920 did it and just straight up proved it. It's like 166 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.839 they were listening to an episode of my podcast and 167 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:28.600 they were just like, oh, oh, he. 168 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:29.800 Thinks that okay. 169 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:33.399 Because I've always said, I've always said that it's too expensive. 170 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:36.000 There's no way they're going to spend the money on 171 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.840 random cameo appearances for one scene like that to make 172 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.120 the universe actually feel connected in each individual show. 173 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:45.639 There's no way they're going to do that. But they did. 174 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:46.200 They did. 175 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:49.039 They brought in Charlie Cox, they did the I mean, 176 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:52.360 it's just showing the same scene from Hawkeye, but they 177 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:55.120 had a scene with Jeremy Renner and or a handful 178 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:56.399 of scenes with Jeremy Renner in it. 179 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:59.360 They they you know, at the end, they had rocks 180 00:08:59.399 --> 00:09:00.840 on On the gas station. 181 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:06.480 Like they had these bigger universe name drops that for 182 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:08.960 rocks On Song can cost him anything, but they can 183 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.600 have like, oh, in this world, there are other things 184 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:21.080 like having Kingpin invest in like this amazing tech for 185 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.360 for Maya to use and then for healing his eye. 186 00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:27.200 Like God, like, you don't think of you think of Kingpin. 187 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:31.600 You think money, crime, mob boss type stuff. You don't 188 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:33.759 think of him having the money to go and spend 189 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:37.559 on tech. And the fact that they had that, and 190 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:39.360 it's just like it doesn't even they don't have to 191 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.639 explain that this epatch with the blue light on it 192 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:44.919 is superhealing and all that kind of stuff and and 193 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:49.200 and like that's the world of the MCU and Marvel 194 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:51.679 that I want to live in. Tony Stark is the 195 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:54.240 only one that flexes tech. It doesn't have to be 196 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:57.120 an Iron Man or a Spider Man show to have 197 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:02.440 tech that like shows the world is advancing in ways 198 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:04.039 that we just don't in ours. 199 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:06.200 And it's ah so much fun. I loved it. 200 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:09.200 I'm so glad you brought that up because it hits 201 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:11.039 for me in two very different ways. One is about 202 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.399 Wilson Fisk that I want to talk about because to me, 203 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:18.440 that scene is essential for understanding Fisk, but also because 204 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:20.679 for me, and I want to be clear, I am 205 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:25.080 a disabled person, both some mental stuff but also particularly physical. 206 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:30.279 In terms of my my amputation, deafness is not I 207 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:32.960 am not deaf or heart of hearing. And while there's 208 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:36.440 a lot of overlap between deafness and disability, a lot 209 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:38.639 with a lot of deaf folks don't say that deafness 210 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:43.799 is disability. So I'm speaking about how that scene hit 211 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:47.080 me as a disabled person. I'm not deaf, so so 212 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:48.519 take all this with a grain of salt, and if 213 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:50.480 deaf people have very different feelings about this, I'm happy 214 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:53.399 to listen to that. But for me, that scene made 215 00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:57.360 me cry so much. First for all the king the 216 00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:01.320 Kingpin reasons, Wilson Fisk reasons, but also because you've probably 217 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:02.879 heard me talk about this. A lot of my fans 218 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:05.559 have heard me talk about this. I and a lot 219 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:10.120 of other disabled people are often very frustrated by if 220 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:14.559 we appear in science fiction or fantasy, yes the character 221 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:20.960 might be disabled, but very quickly the science, the crazy science, technology, 222 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:25.279 or the magic is able to basically erase the disability 223 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:29.000 to a point where like and that's an interesting story idea, 224 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:31.879 But then at that point, the character is no longer someone, 225 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:34.600 that that person's life is no longer something that like 226 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:38.000 disabled folks relate to in any way, and or like 227 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.399 many of us. Again, I'm trying to speak not in generalities, 228 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:44.519 but just these ideas I'm talking about are widely understood 229 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:47.320 by a lot of other folks in these communities, and 230 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:54.600 so like to have it where there is this incredible technology, 231 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.080 but it's not technology to make her hearing, because you know, 232 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.519 if you remember, even in Hawkeye, she actually says to 233 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:07.320 the Hawkeye like that he re lies too much on technology, 234 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:09.279 and that's kind of a critique he has, and that 235 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:12.399 she clearly like she is deaf, that's who she is. 236 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:15.759 She doesn't want to fix that necessarily. So what the 237 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:21.240 technology does is to allow him to better communicate with 238 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:25.200 her using sign language. And it is clearly like sci 239 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:28.200 fi technology, at least as far as I know, it's 240 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.279 possible that someone's actually coming pretty close to inventing that already, 241 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:33.480 and if they haven't, you know, go ahead and do it, 242 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.200 because it certainly seems like it would be possible. But 243 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:39.320 so just seeing that moment to me, that felt like 244 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:43.919 people who understand these concerns and issues are very involved 245 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:47.000 in making this show because it was you know it 246 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:50.519 to me, it's kind of like the difference between technology 247 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.879 that would fix a person and it like fixes a 248 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.200 word of using a huge parentheses, because that's part of 249 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:57.960 the point is that it's not people don't need to 250 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.039 be fixed, but like you know, you could give someone like, oh, hey, 251 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:04.679 your proalysis is fixed, you're no longer in a wheelchair, 252 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:08.519 or like if they gave them like their wheelchair had 253 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:11.720 nanotech so that whenever they were at a step, they 254 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:15.360 could like instantly generate a ramp. You know, like that 255 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:19.399 would be like awesome science fiction technology that's about still 256 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.039 helping a person who has the disabilities. So it just 257 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.600 that moment hit to me on that part. At least 258 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:27.080 I'll talk about it wasn't fisk thing in a minute, 259 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.000 but you just kind of respond. It was just like 260 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.639 every time I complain about like Yoda dropping the cane 261 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:35.159 and bouncing around and all this kind of stuff, or 262 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:38.679 like Avatar and all the ableism of that, like this 263 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.200 is what I mean, this is what we want. 264 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:43.799 Yeah, that was phenomenal. 265 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:47.200 I like I thought it was just such a cool 266 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:50.720 application of technology. And I love that they played it 267 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.200 in a way that you could kind of hear the 268 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:57.440 translation in in Fisk's ear as it was pointing. 269 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:00.240 I loved that. And then like. 270 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.000 As soon as Maya called him out and I was 271 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:08.279 just like, you never even bothered to learn asl to 272 00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:11.639 communicate with me. It made me feel so guilty for 273 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:16.960 being so excited about having this technology. And I was like, wait, no, 274 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.559 there literally is and has been a way for them 275 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:21.200 to communicate. 276 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:24.919 He just never put in the f ah damn oh no. 277 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:27.919 And my part of the problem it was it just 278 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.399 it spiraled for a good like thirty seconds while you're 279 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.480 trying to watch the show, and I was like, man. 280 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:35.679 That is really well done. 281 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:40.960 I feel like they they pulled in and again like 282 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:44.840 as you're saying, Okay, I am not the I'm not 283 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:51.159 disabled physically, and I like, I don't you know, I'm 284 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:54.000 not hard of hearing other than like just have a 285 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:54.559 thick skull. 286 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:55.080 But like. 287 00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:00.919 So, I don't know what it's like to be on 288 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:02.399 the other side of that conversation. 289 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:07.159 And from my perspective, it seemed like and you've been 290 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.360 saying this a couple of times, but like it's it 291 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.200 seemed like they really put in the effort to really 292 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:17.519 tell this story from Maya's perspective as a deaf person, 293 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.039 and like. 294 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:22.960 You have your classic. 295 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:25.799 I was a child, you shouldn't have let me go, 296 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.679 But then you have the extended family being like I 297 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:34.559 was also in pain, like and there's that classic storytelling 298 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:37.840 of like whose pain was greater, And the fact that 299 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:41.879 we never actually had a conversation means that you feel 300 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:46.240 like I was never hurting. But then there's these other 301 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:51.960 conversations and story beats where only an amputee or a 302 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:56.679 deaf person would have this kind of conversation with people, 303 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:02.039 and that they like they were able to do it 304 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:06.440 and weave it into the storytelling. It felt like seamlessly. 305 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:11.360 That was that was so impressive to watch as an 306 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:13.320 able bodied hearing person. 307 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:15.519 That was that I loved it. It was great. 308 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.440 Yeah, well, and I really love what you brought up 309 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.039 though about how she is like wait, you know you 310 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.720 could see her being like, oh my god, I'm so impressed, 311 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:26.840 and so you know, honored that you've done. You've made 312 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.399 all this effort to make all this technology, although it's 313 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:31.799 also very possible he's just like you know, he just 314 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.120 you know, called up his friends at rocks On and said, hey, 315 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:38.279 sure do this, you know or whatever. But also she called, 316 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:39.759 like you said, she calls him out and says, but 317 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:43.159 you haven't done the work. And I thought that was 318 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:46.440 to me, that was a moment that said so much 319 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:52.559 about Wilson Fisk, because what I noticed was, I mean 320 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:54.320 to kind of go through a couple of points here 321 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:56.960 to as a larger thing, but let me start with 322 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:58.440 this and see if you saw it the same way. 323 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.039 I felt like the show made it very very clear 324 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:08.920 without any doubt that yes, he is manipulating her, Yes 325 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:12.160 he is using her as a tool in his army, 326 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:17.279 but his feeling of familial love towards her and like 327 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:21.920 treating her like a daughter is one hundred percent real, absolutely, 328 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.000 And the because one of the things I noticed was that, 329 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:29.200 like the first scene where we see them kind of 330 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:31.880 really interacting as the story goes forward, not that's more 331 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:36.000 flashbacky stuff where she's gotten in trouble with the law. 332 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:38.000 I think she was like stealing a motorcycle or something 333 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:40.400 and he shows up just like you know, it's kind 334 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:42.279 of like, you know, he hears about her in trouble, 335 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:43.680 and he goes to her in the middle of the night, 336 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.319 and he has with him an ASL interpreter who clearly 337 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:50.960 he to some extent, trusts not to talk about the 338 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:55.839 things that they're going to say now clearly doesn't trust entirely. 339 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:57.920 As we learn, she does not come to a good end. 340 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:00.440 But part of what that told me was that he 341 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:04.680 had already thought about this, and like, I don't think 342 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:08.960 that he is the It's not that he said, oh, yeah, 343 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.079 she's deaf, but I'm gonna forget about that and not 344 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.559 really care much about it. I think he very clearly 345 00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:17.240 had gone to great lengths to say, a member of 346 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.039 my family is deaf. I want to make sure that 347 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:22.519 I'm able to deal with that and to communicate with 348 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:27.640 that at all times. But also just the way he 349 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:30.920 approaches the world is not I am going to like 350 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.720 take time away and sit in a classroom and learn, 351 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.359 but I'm going to throw money at this problem and 352 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:39.680 fix it. Yeah, And to me, like, you know more 353 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.559 about the character in comics, but from what I've seen 354 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:45.680 in just the MCU shows, that felt like a perfect 355 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:46.920 illustration of who Fisk is. 356 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:54.880 Oh yeah, I mean, so the MCU for all of 357 00:18:54.880 --> 00:19:01.039 its grandiosness is much more down to earth than the comics. Yeah, 358 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.279 and and the way that they go about problem solving, 359 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:09.440 even though it is otherworldly, sometimes is a lot more practical. 360 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:14.160 And the where I'm going with this is literally just 361 00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:20.160 yesterday I had a conversation with my wife about, Oh, 362 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:25.279 if we had money, what we could throw Like there 363 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:26.839 there are problems in our lives that you can just 364 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.240 throw money at and you don't have to worry about it, 365 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:31.200 Like plumbing. I don't know plumbing. I'm not going to 366 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.440 put in the work to learn plumbing. I'm gonna throw 367 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:35.720 some money at a plumber to go and do that 368 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:41.079 for me, right, uh, And so like Fisks and then 369 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.440 and that's another freaking parallel between me and Fisk that 370 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:48.400 it's stressing me out. But like he's he saw you know, 371 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.960 he he adopted this young girl who is deaf in 372 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.880 an amputee and instead of learning how to asl he 373 00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:59.920 throws money at the situation, gets an interpreter, and then 374 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:01.960 and down the line he has more money, and. 375 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:04.680 So what more money? What can more money do? Oh? 376 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:11.599 Throwing an interpretation contact lens and and a camera and 377 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.279 a translator in his ear so he doesn't have to put. 378 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:14.559 In the work. 379 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.880 Like it's it's what what can what problems can I 380 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:20.599 solve with money? So I can focus on the things 381 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:23.400 I can't be solved with money. That's how I how 382 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:26.000 I like to see the world. And apparently that's how 383 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.680 a Fisk sees the world and that's not how our 384 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:32.480 hero say sees the world. And and that's a problem 385 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:32.759 for me. 386 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:36.839 Yeah, no, I get well, I'm going to question the 387 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:38.640 use of the word hero, which is something we'll get 388 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:43.240 to in a bit sure podcast, But like, to me, 389 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:45.839 I also think about the scene that you know, when 390 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:48.039 she's a young girl and he takes her and or 391 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:49.960 he coming to pick her up from school and she 392 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:52.400 wants to buy ice cream and the ice cream guy 393 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:54.519 is like, you know, really rude to her and able 394 00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:57.119 list and and you know clearly like really hurts her. 395 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:02.000 That scene was one of like the thing about Fisk is, 396 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:06.599 particularly the Daredevil show, particularly in season one, it's like 397 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:11.160 fifty one percent a Daredevil origin show and forty nine 398 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.839 percent of Wilson Fisk origin show. A kingpin because you 399 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:22.079 met Vincentinafrio manages to make him so incredibly compelling and 400 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:27.680 so incredibly sympathetic in ways where you're like, there are 401 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.799