WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>The FTX collapse, the Voyager collapse, the Celsius collapse, and

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<v Speaker 1>this allowed the normies to say bitcoin, crypto dead. That

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<v Speaker 1>is no longer the case. We're back at post halving

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<v Speaker 1>precisely on time, almost on time, right, one hundred k bitcoin,

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<v Speaker 1>So we're only I don't know what it is. I

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<v Speaker 1>haven't looked at it in a while, but we were

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineties of this morning, so we're only about

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<v Speaker 1>ten percent eight percent away from one hundred k bitcoin,

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<v Speaker 1>which will put it where we expected it to be

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<v Speaker 1>via the Plan B stock to flow chart, and Plan

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<v Speaker 1>B has in his model what year is this around

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty six, And again this could be a little late, right,

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<v Speaker 1>it could be over here twenty twenty seven. One million

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<v Speaker 1>dollar big one. I absolutely believe we're gonna have one

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<v Speaker 1>million dollar bigcoin. I believe we're gonna have one million

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<v Speaker 1>dollar bitcoin. When we had three thousand dollars bitcoin. That's

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<v Speaker 1>when I first figured out what this was. And the

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<v Speaker 1>point I'm making here with all this is it's not

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<v Speaker 1>about when's the right time. It's if you think long term,

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<v Speaker 1>if there's million dollar bitcoin in twenty twenty seven, you

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<v Speaker 1>will wish you were buying ninety thousand dollars bitcoin. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you see what I'm saying? And when there's one hundred thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>when there's million dollar bitcoin, there will no longer be

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<v Speaker 1>one one hundred thousand dollars bitcoin. I mean, when bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>gets to a million, the crash will be to like

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<v Speaker 1>three or four hundred thousand whatever I'm most likely and

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<v Speaker 1>this isn't perfect, but whatever the cycle top is this cycle,

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<v Speaker 1>which could be two fifty three hundred. If we have

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<v Speaker 1>crazy balls banana zone, we could have three hundred thousand

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<v Speaker 1>dollars bitcoin buy May June July. That will probably be

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<v Speaker 1>the cycle top, right. And then if we have a

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<v Speaker 1>crash down to worst case scenario sixty seventy eighty thousand

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<v Speaker 1>by the time we get to one million dollar bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty six seven, that means the crash will

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<v Speaker 1>be the previous cycle top to fifty three hundred. So

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<v Speaker 1>there you go. So what should that What that should

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<v Speaker 1>tell you is DCA if you're not a big level

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<v Speaker 1>investor with a lot of money and you want to

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<v Speaker 1>do big things or whatever, like if you're a working

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<v Speaker 1>class person, what I would do. I'm not telling I

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<v Speaker 1>can't tell you what to do. But what I would

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<v Speaker 1>do is I would DCA and I would make BTC

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<v Speaker 1>my savings account. That's what I would do. I would

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<v Speaker 1>not put my savings account in dollars, but I can't

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<v Speaker 1>tell you. If you want to do that, that's up

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<v Speaker 1>to you. Some people think gold's a safer If you

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<v Speaker 1>want to do that, that's up to you. However, if

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<v Speaker 1>you chose gold throughout this time frame, you made a

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<v Speaker 1>dumb decision. I mean, you missed out on I mean

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<v Speaker 1>the last ten years of your savings in gold versus

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<v Speaker 1>the last ten years of your saving in bitcoin. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>come on, we've shown this chart many times. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>want like a two x or do you want like

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred x? Okay, it's not rocket scienceer. And that

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<v Speaker 1>goes into why bitcoin as far as superior to gold?

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<v Speaker 1>And I played many videos. I think the best video

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<v Speaker 1>proving that bitcoin is superior to gold is the Mark

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<v Speaker 1>Moss video. What did he title that as?

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<v Speaker 2>Really?

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<v Speaker 1>He actually shows you with a lot of mathematics. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's the video already says how do we get

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<v Speaker 1>to a million dollar bitcoin or something like that? Let's see,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not this, it's from like I think it's this one.

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<v Speaker 1>How math shocking math to how bitcoin could reach forty

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<v Speaker 1>three million. Now he's saying forty three million by like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, twenty forty, right, he's talking about way down

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<v Speaker 1>the line if we have global adoption. For those that

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, Bitcoin just flips silver. Silver's market cap was

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<v Speaker 1>just surpassed by Bitcoin's market cap. And as Max Kaiser

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<v Speaker 1>said on Alex yesterday, the next logical step bitcoin will

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<v Speaker 1>flip the market cap of gold. Now people laughed and

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<v Speaker 1>said it would never flip silver. It just did. How

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<v Speaker 1>do we get to flipping gold? Flipping gold is leads

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<v Speaker 1>us to a nine hundred k bitcoin, So gold like

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<v Speaker 1>seventeen trillion. If bitcoin flips gold, that means each bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>is literally nine hundred k. So we're almost at a

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars, so basically a million dollar bitcoin when we

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<v Speaker 1>flipped gold. And I'm pretty sure this is the video

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<v Speaker 1>where Mark Moss explains how you get to that level

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<v Speaker 1>of flipping gold. Yes, I think this is it your

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<v Speaker 1>gold here he's somewhat gold standard, yes, And this is

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<v Speaker 1>where he explains exactly and precisely why bitcoin is superior

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<v Speaker 1>even to gold. And I hate I'm not trying to

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<v Speaker 1>hurt gold bugs feelings in the chat, and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people love gold. Let me tell you, I'll I'll

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<v Speaker 1>give you an example though. In twenty nineteen and twenty nine,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't have like a huge amount of goal. I

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<v Speaker 1>think I had about thirteen thousand dollars in gold, like

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<v Speaker 1>actual physical gold, right, So I had a nice little

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<v Speaker 1>pile of gold and I sold all of that in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen and put it on into bitcoin because I

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<v Speaker 1>was convinced at that time as well, this is this

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't remember what what bitcoin is that I

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<v Speaker 1>I might have gotten one bitcoin out of that, don't remember,

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<v Speaker 1>but like I was convinced even then. Oh wait a minute,

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<v Speaker 1>this is this is a period waste of periit to

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<v Speaker 1>gold gold gold is like, we're not going back to conquistador. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>We're not gonna be a Viles and Magellan floating around

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<v Speaker 1>on ships with you know, giant treasure boxes full of

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<v Speaker 1>gold toaballoons and Spanish medallions or whatever. Okay, that's just

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<v Speaker 1>not we don't We live in the digital world, people,

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<v Speaker 1>and so doesn't it make sense of have a digital money? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>of course it was anyway, Uh, if you get me

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<v Speaker 1>talking on this I'll ramble forever. So I'm not gonna

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<v Speaker 1>keep going on this topic. I got I gotta get

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<v Speaker 1>to get some coffee, and we got we gotta get

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<v Speaker 1>our Mormon bro in Here, Nick sends another amazing wow,

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred dollars super chat. I have enough BTC. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't rely on super chats to a living stick to

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<v Speaker 1>the topic, bro, I'm gonna talk about whatever I want

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<v Speaker 1>to in any video. So again, uh, your passive aggressive

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<v Speaker 1>of sending me money but then dissing me kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a weird flex here. So I'm glad that you have BTC,

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<v Speaker 1>But if you're really into BTC, you would know that

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<v Speaker 1>all BTC people want to evangelize BTC because we believe

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<v Speaker 1>it's ethical money. We believe it's the future of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>fair and balance financing such that the government can't steal

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<v Speaker 1>from you. And so I will always talk about bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>on my streams, and I appreciate you donating, But like,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to preach at me, you can just

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<v Speaker 1>keep your money, man, Nick, fifty dollars, You're bitcoin analysis

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<v Speaker 1>is so low tier? Why are you giving me money

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<v Speaker 1>to tell me that my should is low tier? Why

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<v Speaker 1>don't you play a bit Boy video for well, Bitboy

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<v Speaker 1>was a scammer who pushed all kinds of scam coins,

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<v Speaker 1>so why would my coin analysis be at the level

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<v Speaker 1>of bit Boy. By the way, I'm all refund your

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<v Speaker 1>superchats so you don't need to keep sending me super chats,

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't care how much money you want to

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<v Speaker 1>flash at me. Let's just go to streamline. I'm want

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<v Speaker 1>to block you and refund your money because I don't

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<v Speaker 1>like your attitude. Let's see, let's go to tipping tip

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<v Speaker 1>history and I am gonna refund his money. So let's see,

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<v Speaker 1>let's hit refund refunded that one, yes, refund the second

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<v Speaker 1>one yes, and hit block Yes. Take your shitty attitude elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Uh, we have a message from our sponsor.

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<v Speaker 1>Our sponsors, of course, chalk dot com the best and supplementation.

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere in the chat over here on X I'll be

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<v Speaker 1>right back.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna put you on something crazy real quick. Most

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<v Speaker 3>of these zoomer Jimbros are consuming macro guzzling synthetic dyes

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<v Speaker 3>and synthetic sweeteners on the daily. They don't even know it.

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<v Speaker 3>Goofy af. There's nothing great about that. Do not listen

189
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<v Speaker 3>any further unless you are an Alpha or Sigma male.

190
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<v Speaker 3>This is important and there could be consequences.

191
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<v Speaker 1>There's a new.

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<v Speaker 3>Certified Sigma male pre workout powder for sigmas only. It

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<v Speaker 3>is guaranteed to empower you to dominate your co workers,

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<v Speaker 3>fire your boss, aggressively, gamble, or invade a small village.

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<v Speaker 3>Chad Mode stands out from the crowd by excluding artificial flavors, preservatives, sweeteners,

196
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<v Speaker 3>and dyes. We've even avoided so called natural flavors, which

197
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<v Speaker 3>are actually not natural at all, ensuring a clean and

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<v Speaker 3>with organic blue Spirolina extract, organic lemon cherry and organic

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<v Speaker 3>maple crystals. Forget synthetic caffeine made in a sketchy Chinese lab.

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<v Speaker 3>Embrace the natural power of organic green coffee bean extract

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<v Speaker 3>which will get your mind going and pump you up

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<v Speaker 3>to the max. Chad Mode is made in America with

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<v Speaker 3>all clean ingredients, the first clean pre workout of its kind.

205
00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.960
<v Speaker 3>Why are these people adding synthetic sweeteners to every single

206
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<v Speaker 3>pre workout when there are many studied downsides to consuming

207
00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:50.919
<v Speaker 3>nasty fake sucralose. Each dose of chad Mode contains the

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<v Speaker 1>utilize that time. Utilize that, assume that promo code. All

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<v Speaker 1>people talking about info wars. No, bitcoin is not unregulated.

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<v Speaker 1>Fiat bitcoin is the opposite of fiat. I mean there

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<v Speaker 1>is a technically speaking, there is a quote fiat element

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<v Speaker 1>in the issuance of bitcoin in terms of the halving,

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<v Speaker 1>but it is not fiat because it is capped at

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one million. Open up stream yard. I don't have

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<v Speaker 1>stream yard, dummy, Just why are you spamming the chat?

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<v Speaker 1>I've never used stream lard Yard if you want to

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<v Speaker 1>call in to debate, you call in here right here

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<v Speaker 1>there's going to be some Friday sales, so we're actually

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<v Speaker 1>utilize those promo codes to get access to four percent

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<v Speaker 1>off that performance stack. You can also utilize the Male

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<v Speaker 1>Vitality Stack there. It's a little bit less the maximum

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<v Speaker 1>Performance Stack, which is you know, two chunks of that

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<v Speaker 1>Chad mood stuff is crazy. It's really strong, so be careful.

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<v Speaker 1>And then for the ladies too, we have ten percent

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<v Speaker 1>of this audience is ladies dudes, which is fine. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>okay with all of the dude bros. But for that

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<v Speaker 1>ten percent of ladies, there is also the female Vitality

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<v Speaker 1>Stack as well. If you are into health fitness and

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<v Speaker 1>utilizing products that will accompany your GEM attendance, your workout attendance,

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<v Speaker 1>your healthy diet. So to the Bajete dude that was

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<v Speaker 1>going crazy in the chat, you're welcome to come and debate.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what you're telling me to open up

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<v Speaker 1>stream yards. I don't use string yards. Okay, Ben, let's

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<v Speaker 1>go to Ben. What's up man? I did a whole

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<v Speaker 1>video called election Predictions. What do you mean you can't

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<v Speaker 1>find it? It's literally right there on the channel, Ben,

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<v Speaker 1>what's up making I'm mute?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Hey, hey nothing?

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<v Speaker 1>How are you good? What's on your mind?

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<v Speaker 4>Well?

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<v Speaker 5>I just saw you included Mormon in the title.

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<v Speaker 1>So I wanted to.

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<v Speaker 6>Talk to you about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure. Yeah, we had a Mormon guy come in about

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<v Speaker 1>the first hour, but that didn't go so well. So

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<v Speaker 1>you're welcome to make any arguments or haven't. If you

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<v Speaker 1>have any questions or anything you want to present, you're

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to it.

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<v Speaker 5>Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>So first off, you're.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you like any particular We're Orthodox or Orthodox Christianity,

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<v Speaker 1>so like.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, So I I served an LDS.

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<v Speaker 1>Mission in Russia.

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<v Speaker 5>That's Russian Orthodox, so I'm kind of familiar with that.

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<v Speaker 5>But there's there's not really too many significant differences between

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<v Speaker 5>the different.

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<v Speaker 1>Orthodox churches, right, no between strictly speaking Orthodox churches. No,

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<v Speaker 1>they have the same dogmatic decrees, confession and catechism, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, cool, did you have to learn about like

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<v Speaker 1>Russian Orthodoxy before you went there?

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<v Speaker 5>I mean I did just out of curiosity. The missionary

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<v Speaker 5>training is pretty like standardized, and it's just about our

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<v Speaker 5>core doctrine because it's like you get, it's eighteen year

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<v Speaker 5>old kids, so it's.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you just.

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<v Speaker 5>You just have to like teach the basics.

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<v Speaker 4>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm down to debate about any issue.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like, I feel like the main.

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<v Speaker 5>Issue that the LDS have differently from the Orthodox, well,

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<v Speaker 5>obviously we have the Great Apostle see that no other

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<v Speaker 5>Christians really believe in. But then there's also trinitarianism.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, how about this topic? You know, in the in

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<v Speaker 1>the all the translations that precede the translations that Joseph

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<v Speaker 1>Smith did in Luke sixteen sixteen, Jesus says the law

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<v Speaker 1>and the prophets were until John, and since that time

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<v Speaker 1>the Kingdom of Heaven has been preached and everyone is

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<v Speaker 1>pressing into it. Now. This to us, along with Galatians

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<v Speaker 1>one eight and Jude three, teaches us that there's essentially

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<v Speaker 1>an end to the prophetic line. We don't need nor

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<v Speaker 1>do we have any prophets or new prophets or new

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<v Speaker 1>divine revelations after the death of the apostles. And so

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<v Speaker 1>if that's the case, that automatically cuts out any cult, religion,

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<v Speaker 1>or sect, be it Muhammadism or Mormonism, that purports to

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<v Speaker 1>have a new prophet with new divine revelations.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, So it's Luke sixteen, I read through that, And

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<v Speaker 5>what was the other one.

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<v Speaker 1>Jude Jude three? The faith is once we're all delivered

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<v Speaker 1>to the saints, speaking of in Jude's day Jude three,

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<v Speaker 1>and then Galatians one, particularly round verse eight, where Paul

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<v Speaker 1>says that there can never be any new gospel or

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<v Speaker 1>new revelations, even by an Angel, that differs from the

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<v Speaker 1>revelation of the Gospel that Paul has in the New Testament.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so uh okay, So I guess

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<v Speaker 6>I'll address those scriptures just.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I gotta stop.

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<v Speaker 5>Looking at chat Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>One by one.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, So, Luke sixteen, I guess. So, first of all,

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<v Speaker 5>would you agree that there's no one thing of scripture

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<v Speaker 5>like everyone that reads scripture, there's like a few different

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<v Speaker 5>meanings that you can glean from the same.

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<v Speaker 2>Set of words.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, in the Orthodox tradition and the history of the Church,

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<v Speaker 1>both East and West, we have the idea that there's

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<v Speaker 1>layers and levels to scripture. So this is sometimes called

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<v Speaker 1>the quadraga or the four levels of scripture. The literal level,

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<v Speaker 1>which is kind of the immediate historical, grammatical historical context.

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<v Speaker 1>There's the anagogical, there's a tropological, and the allegorical. So

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<v Speaker 1>those layers and levels, though, can never differ or contradict

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<v Speaker 1>the immediate grammatical historical, So there's a kind of limitation

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<v Speaker 1>on any kind of over allegorizing or over speculative hermeneutic

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<v Speaker 1>that we might use. So in one sense, I could say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the scriptures are deep, and they have,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to simplify it, a literal meaning and

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<v Speaker 1>then a quote spiritual meaning. But that has nothing to

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<v Speaker 1>do with whether or not there could be contradictory interpretations

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<v Speaker 1>of texts that are quote valid. There are no contradictory interpretations.

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<v Speaker 5>That are valid, Okay, I mean I can so contradictory

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<v Speaker 5>with the overall Gospel message.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, contradictory in any sense, whether it's the Gospel message,

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<v Speaker 1>or whether it's contradicting other Bible texts, whether it's contradicting

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<v Speaker 1>basic principles of logic, reasoning, et cetera. There's no possibility

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<v Speaker 1>of the revelation having multifaceted and quote interpretations that contradict

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<v Speaker 1>because that would be a form of postmodernism or relativism. Yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I agree with that. Okay, okay, cool.

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<v Speaker 5>So the main versus sixteen then in Luke sixteen sixteen,

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<v Speaker 5>the law of profits were until John. Since that time,

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<v Speaker 5>the Kingdom of God has preached in every man presses

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<v Speaker 5>into it. So I mean, I I mean, I agree

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<v Speaker 5>with that.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree with the Well, how would you agree with

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<v Speaker 1>that if Jeb's a smith is a prophet giving new

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<v Speaker 1>revelation eighteen hundred years later.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, I don't think it says in that specific verse

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<v Speaker 5>that there won't be subsequent profits.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if the lineage of profits in the Old Testament

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<v Speaker 1>sense ends that John the Baptist, it does say that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it says they.

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<v Speaker 1>Were in til John.

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<v Speaker 5>And this is Jesus speaking like while like during I

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<v Speaker 5>don't know if John was alive.

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<v Speaker 1>At this point.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, this is like in the timeframe of John.

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<v Speaker 5>He's saying, along the profits were intel John, just.

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<v Speaker 1>Because he's not.

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<v Speaker 5>Saying he's saying that this thing happened, the law and

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<v Speaker 5>the prophets were to tell John, and the law in

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<v Speaker 5>the Kingdom of God was preached. So he's to me,

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<v Speaker 5>he's giving like historical contexts for the lesson he's teaching.

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<v Speaker 5>He's not making a statement about prophetic line ending.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you aware that in the Joseph Smith translation he

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<v Speaker 1>changed this verse to not say what it says in

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<v Speaker 1>every previous translation. Yeah, oh you are.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well it's funny because what he changed it to says

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<v Speaker 1>and they said, unto him, we have the law and

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<v Speaker 1>the prophets. As for this man, we will not receive

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<v Speaker 1>him to be our ruler. So that's Luke sixteen sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>in the Joseph Smith translation. So all the previous all

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<v Speaker 1>the previous manuscripts say what I'm saying. Joseph Smith translates

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<v Speaker 1>this to say what it doesn't say, which.

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<v Speaker 5>Will there's Have you read verse seventeen in the Joseph

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<v Speaker 5>Smith's translation.

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<v Speaker 1>They said, unto him, the law and the prophets testify

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<v Speaker 1>of me, and the prophets that have written even until

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<v Speaker 1>John foretold of these days. That does not say that

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<v Speaker 1>the law and the prophets were until John, because were

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<v Speaker 1>until John. Suggests that there's no more prophets in that

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<v Speaker 1>Old Testament sense now that John came. Why is that?

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<v Speaker 1>Because John is the announcement, the announcer of the coming

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<v Speaker 1>of the Messiah. Now that Jesus has come, the role

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<v Speaker 1>of an Old Testament prophet is done. There are no

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<v Speaker 1>more over old tipmate prophets, because the finality of revelation,

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<v Speaker 1>as Hebrews One says, Are you familiar with the way

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<v Speaker 1>Hebrews The one says that in former times God spoke

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<v Speaker 1>to us in various ways and in various means, via

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<v Speaker 1>the prophets, via science, symbols, etc. In these last days,

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<v Speaker 1>he has spoken to us through his son. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>finality to this such that anyone after this time. And

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<v Speaker 1>you may not know this, but a few centuries after

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<v Speaker 1>the death of the Apostles, there was a group called

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<v Speaker 1>the Montanists. Have you heard of them? No? So, the

415
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:14.839
<v Speaker 1>montanus existed around second century into the third century, and

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<v Speaker 1>they were a quasi quote charismatic group that resurrected this

417
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<v Speaker 1>idea that hey, there's new revelations, and Montanus is the

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<v Speaker 1>voice and mouthpiece of the Holy Spirit. And because of

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00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.519
<v Speaker 1>these new revelations, what was prior revealed in the Bible

420
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:32.720
<v Speaker 1>and the Old Testament, in these in these New Testament

421
00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:36.759
<v Speaker 1>passages and texts that were circulating, that's now superseded by

422
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:41.000
<v Speaker 1>the new direct revelations of Montanus. The Church at that time,

423
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:47.079
<v Speaker 1>explicitly in ecumenical councils and in local synods, rejects the

424
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:50.839
<v Speaker 1>entire premise of Montanus as a new prophet and voice

425
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:53.759
<v Speaker 1>of the Holy Spirit because of what I'm saying, which

426
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:56.039
<v Speaker 1>is that there are no new prophets and no new

427
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:58.839
<v Speaker 1>revelations after the death of the apostles. There's a finality

428
00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:02.079
<v Speaker 1>to divine revelation, and that means that all cults and

429
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:06.279
<v Speaker 1>sex be they Islam be they Mormonism are false religions.

430
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So first.

431
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:17.319
<v Speaker 5>First all address the scriptures, and then I'll address the Montanism.

432
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:18.519
<v Speaker 1>Have you heard of Tertullian?

433
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh? I can I address those things? You can?

434
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:25.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm just trying to kind of jog your memory, maybe

435
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.720
<v Speaker 1>help with associations. You know what Tertullian is? No, no,

436
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.039
<v Speaker 1>So he's the most famous second century patristic writer theologian.

437
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:38.440
<v Speaker 1>His name Tertullian. So if you were familiar with church history,

438
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:41.160
<v Speaker 1>you would know that the most famous writer of the

439
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.920
<v Speaker 1>second century became a Montanist. He went into the cult

440
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.200
<v Speaker 1>of Montanus and fell for this delusion, and that's why

441
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.000
<v Speaker 1>he's not believed to be a saint in the Orthodox

442
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:53.799
<v Speaker 1>or Catholic churches. So I'm just giving you an example

443
00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:56.640
<v Speaker 1>of a historical time frame and a person that you

444
00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:58.880
<v Speaker 1>could look to to say, ah, here's a guy. Second

445
00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:03.599
<v Speaker 1>century Tertullian becomes a Montanist. The Church universally rejects Montanism,

446
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:06.960
<v Speaker 1>and so in order for your position to be maintained,

447
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:12.279
<v Speaker 1>it would require this quote great apostasy position, which contradicts

448
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Jesus teaching that the gates of Hell would never prevail

449
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.319
<v Speaker 1>against the Church and that His spirit would always be

450
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:20.440
<v Speaker 1>there to lead into guide the successors to the apostles

451
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:21.480
<v Speaker 1>and to the end of the age.

452
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:27.720
<v Speaker 5>Okay, well, you're you're you're bringing up these different arguments.

453
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:33.039
<v Speaker 5>I just want to like get into the weeds with uh, with.

454
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:33.920
<v Speaker 2>All of them.

455
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:37.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we've spent Yeah, fine, Luke sixteen sixteen is

456
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:40.039
<v Speaker 1>mistranslated by your cult leader to say what it doesn't say.

457
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:49.680
<v Speaker 5>Okay, well, so here's here's what I'm saying, is Luke

458
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:55.920
<v Speaker 5>sixteen sixteen, And the same thing is in Hebrews. They're

459
00:28:56.039 --> 00:29:03.160
<v Speaker 5>they're creating a historical context of God sent prophets, and

460
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:04.799
<v Speaker 5>now He has sent his son.

461
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:07.119
<v Speaker 2>So just because they say.

462
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.319
<v Speaker 5>This, it doesn't exclude profits from ever coming again. They

463
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:12.440
<v Speaker 5>don't explicitly exclude.

464
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:15.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, then, so then the faith was not once. So

465
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:17.599
<v Speaker 1>then the faith was not once for all delivered to

466
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:20.400
<v Speaker 1>the saints past tense in Jude three.

467
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:21.720
<v Speaker 2>But.

468
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:27.440
<v Speaker 5>Six times the faith was delivered to the saints.

469
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:31.079
<v Speaker 1>Now, if there's ongoing new revelations, which Paul warns about

470
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:33.680
<v Speaker 1>in Galatians one, about even if an angel shows up

471
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:35.720
<v Speaker 1>and preaches you a new gospel, which is the very

472
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:37.839
<v Speaker 1>thing that your cult is based on, an angel showing

473
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:39.079
<v Speaker 1>up and preaching a new gospel.

474
00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:42.240
<v Speaker 5>We don't believe there are new revelations. Well, we don't

475
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:44.920
<v Speaker 5>believe they are new beliefs. We don't believe they are

476
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:48.599
<v Speaker 5>a new gospel. We believe they're a restoration of the

477
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:49.720
<v Speaker 5>lost Gospel.

478
00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:52.319
<v Speaker 1>Well that's all bullshit, that's all comic book stuff. So

479
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:54.400
<v Speaker 1>where is any evidence of a restoration?

480
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:01.440
<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean the restor of the priesthood of the

481
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:02.559
<v Speaker 5>church organization.

482
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.920
<v Speaker 1>And where was any of this that existed prior that

483
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:10.160
<v Speaker 1>you restored? Where is where did it die? Baptisms?

484
00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Baptisms?

485
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:14.079
<v Speaker 7>For I didn't ask you about your specific I didn't

486
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:17.640
<v Speaker 7>ask you about your specific I asked you where specifically

487
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:20.720
<v Speaker 7>was the last time this existed such that it had

488
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:21.400
<v Speaker 7>to be restored?

489
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:25.480
<v Speaker 1>Where's that point? Where? What? Give me an example of this?

490
00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:29.119
<v Speaker 5>Where the Twelve Apostles baptism for the dead.

491
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:33.559
<v Speaker 1>That's a basic noess, hold on, hold on, that's a

492
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.920
<v Speaker 1>separate So you believe that the Twelve Apostles taught what

493
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:38.400
<v Speaker 1>you believe?

494
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

495
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:41.119
<v Speaker 1>Do they teach the Trinity?

496
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:42.400
<v Speaker 4>No?

497
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:45.599
<v Speaker 1>So the New Testament? Have you read the Gospel of John?

498
00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

499
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Does it teach the Trinity?

500
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:48.720
<v Speaker 2>No?

501
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Do you want to walk through the Gospel of John?

502
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Where did you know? Every chapter, every chapter, every chapter

503
00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:00.319
<v Speaker 1>teaches the deed of Christ and the triad explicitly. If

504
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:01.160
<v Speaker 1>you if you.

505
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:03.359
<v Speaker 5>Had read the Book of Mormon, you would know that

506
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.359
<v Speaker 5>it also uses that type of language that.

507
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:08.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but you're cult lies and uses the language and

508
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.400
<v Speaker 1>then gives a different meaning because you're you're a polytheistic cult.

509
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:13.240
<v Speaker 1>You believe that God the Father was once a man

510
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:18.599
<v Speaker 1>who became deified and had offspring and physical sex. That's

511
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:25.960
<v Speaker 1>why it's a stupid cult. No, no, it's not. Don't lie.

512
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:26.359
<v Speaker 2>You're not.

513
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:28.079
<v Speaker 1>You're not talking to people who we know what your

514
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:30.599
<v Speaker 1>church teaches. You're saying that you don't believe that God

515
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.119
<v Speaker 1>the Father was once a man. You don't know what

516
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:35.440
<v Speaker 1>it says. Hold on, So you're saying your church doesn't

517
00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:38.480
<v Speaker 1>teach that God the Father was once a man. It

518
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:44.039
<v Speaker 1>says he was like so you're lying. He was like Christ,

519
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:46.319
<v Speaker 1>he was one. That's so he was a man with

520
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:49.680
<v Speaker 1>a body. That's a man. Right, yeah, we believe. So

521
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:51.319
<v Speaker 1>now you're lying, so you do teach that.

522
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:55.920
<v Speaker 5>We know you're saying that God the Father was once

523
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:57.000
<v Speaker 5>a sinful man.

524
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:01.599
<v Speaker 1>I didn't say that. When I didn't say that, I

525
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:03.599
<v Speaker 1>know what you're making up bullshit and put it in

526
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:05.039
<v Speaker 1>my mouth. I didn't say that. By the way, why

527
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.279
<v Speaker 1>does Joseph Smith add all these verses to Genesis fifty.

528
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:14.480
<v Speaker 5>Well, you're you're not arguing in a in a coherent

529
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:15.799
<v Speaker 5>or honest way.

530
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:18.839
<v Speaker 1>You just literally lied and attributed to me something I

531
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:20.839
<v Speaker 1>didn't say, and then admitted that you do believe that God,

532
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:23.759
<v Speaker 1>God the Father was once a man? And I'm just

533
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:26.599
<v Speaker 1>simply I'm asking. I pointed out that you're dishonest about that,

534
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.759
<v Speaker 1>and then I'm asking a separate question because you're not

535
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:32.519
<v Speaker 1>honest there. Why does Joseph Smith add versus about himself

536
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:36.279
<v Speaker 1>in Genesis fifty? Why are you are you're going to

537
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:41.240
<v Speaker 1>giggle at me? You're giggling at meument because you lied,

538
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:44.079
<v Speaker 1>and because you lied and weren't honest about God the

539
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:46.039
<v Speaker 1>Father having a body and being a man. You lied.

540
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:48.240
<v Speaker 1>Do you want me to address that? I want to

541
00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:50.960
<v Speaker 1>know about Genesis fifty. Why does Joseph Smith make up

542
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:55.440
<v Speaker 1>bullshit versus about himself? He's a con man? Genesis fifty,

543
00:32:56.079 --> 00:33:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Genesis fifty, Stop deflecting Genesis fifty. Answer the question about

544
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:06.920
<v Speaker 1>Genesis fifty or I'm booting you.

545
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:08.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm not familiar with.

546
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're done. This is this is That's what you

547
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:21.960
<v Speaker 1>get with this dumb, cold tim what's up for those

548
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:26.119
<v Speaker 1>that don't know? Again, Joseph Smith, this is how stupid

549
00:33:26.119 --> 00:33:30.920
<v Speaker 1>this is. Because Genesis is talking about the patriarch, Joseph,

550
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:36.559
<v Speaker 1>this dumb ass con man inserted himself as if Genesis

551
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.200
<v Speaker 1>is talking about Joseph Smith. I kid you, you can't

552
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:42.480
<v Speaker 1>make this up. It's right here on the screen for you.

553
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:47.759
<v Speaker 1>From their website, the additional verses that Joseph Smith added

554
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:53.519
<v Speaker 1>to Genesis to predict himself. If you can't see that

555
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:55.559
<v Speaker 1>that's a con man, there's no hope for you. I

556
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:59.559
<v Speaker 1>can't help you. Imagine the people that believe this nonsense.

557
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:04.960
<v Speaker 1>This is so stupid. And then you heard that whole

558
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.880
<v Speaker 1>like he knows. I wasn't. I was saying that he

559
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:11.440
<v Speaker 1>teaches that God the Father was once a man, and

560
00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:14.159
<v Speaker 1>then he lied and said, you said a sinful man.

561
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:16.039
<v Speaker 1>I didn't say any of that. I just said he

562
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:19.400
<v Speaker 1>was a man who impregnated women, had spirit babies and

563
00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:21.880
<v Speaker 1>all that and became God the Father. O. No, we

564
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:24.480
<v Speaker 1>don't teach that. That's a misreading. But actually he was

565
00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:28.679
<v Speaker 1>a man like Christ. It's literally one of the dumbest

566
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:30.920
<v Speaker 1>cults out. I mean, I don't know who's dumber, Mormons

567
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:44.599
<v Speaker 1>or Muslims. It's hard to say loved, and you know,

568
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:48.360
<v Speaker 1>I hate the condescending giggle. As soon as somebody does

569
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.719
<v Speaker 1>the condescending giggle, I'm out, what's up?

570
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:51.880
<v Speaker 8>Man?

571
00:34:51.960 --> 00:35:01.639
<v Speaker 1>Loved? Well, God the Father wasn't a man, he was

572
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:06.599
<v Speaker 1>a guy like Christ. Exactly what I said, Elias, what's up?

573
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Hey? Sorry, I was not a paying attention.

574
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:19.400
<v Speaker 9>I have a couple of questions regarding ontology ontological arguments.

575
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, appropriate for you're cutting out, so go ahead. It's

576
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:25.840
<v Speaker 1>hard to hear you.

577
00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh shoot, is that better?

578
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:32.400
<v Speaker 1>No, it's better, go ahead.

579
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:37.920
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, I just I asked some questions regarding cosmological arguments.

580
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:40.559
<v Speaker 9>I'm in a philosophy of religion class and we're kind

581
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:42.679
<v Speaker 9>of we're going over them. I have a project I

582
00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:46.159
<v Speaker 9>want to incorporate some kind of Eastern Orthodox theology into it.

583
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:48.519
<v Speaker 9>Would be okay if I asked some philosophical questions or

584
00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:50.519
<v Speaker 9>are you just wanting to base today?

585
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:55.280
<v Speaker 1>Uh? Preferably be preferably debates. I mean, I don't like,

586
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:57.199
<v Speaker 1>there's no offense to you, but it sounds like a

587
00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:00.519
<v Speaker 1>really long boring question. No, no, I'm not calling you boring.

588
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:03.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying, like, what's the question.

589
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:05.280
<v Speaker 2>I was?

590
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:07.480
<v Speaker 9>I was just going to ask about the veracity of

591
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.320
<v Speaker 9>cosmological arguments in general.

592
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I know that a lot of kind of like tag proponents.

593
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:14.719
<v Speaker 1>Will Yeah, they just rely on a lot of things

594
00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:16.800
<v Speaker 1>that are in question, and they kind of assume that

595
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:19.320
<v Speaker 1>it's the Christian God who's the first cause. And that's

596
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:21.960
<v Speaker 1>all begging the question. So I don't think they do

597
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:24.079
<v Speaker 1>very good. I mean you could make you could make

598
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:26.760
<v Speaker 1>a transcendental version of a cosmological argument, which would be good.

599
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:29.679
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, And I've heard that some of Maximus the Confessor.

600
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:33.119
<v Speaker 9>I'm reading part of his on the Cosmic Mystery of

601
00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:35.440
<v Speaker 9>Jesus Christ right now. I'm kind of getting my way

602
00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:38.079
<v Speaker 9>through it. I've heard that he does rely on some

603
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:42.159
<v Speaker 9>cosmological arguments, not necessarily as proofs, but just as understanding

604
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:44.679
<v Speaker 9>Christ and God the Father.

605
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:46.559
<v Speaker 2>I might be wrong here, This is kind of hearsaying.

606
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:50.039
<v Speaker 2>I haven't read the entire thing yet, but I.

607
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.320
<v Speaker 9>Also wanted to know if you have you heard of

608
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:55.159
<v Speaker 9>those guys that Telos bound, that that group who does

609
00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:58.199
<v Speaker 9>a lot of like I think they call it communal ontology.

610
00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:00.280
<v Speaker 9>Have you heard of those guys at all? On h

611
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:03.159
<v Speaker 9>What are your thoughts on that? Because I find it

612
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:05.559
<v Speaker 9>pretty interesting from what I listened to. I'm not super

613
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:09.159
<v Speaker 9>like versed in philosophy. I'm trying to learn it as

614
00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:10.599
<v Speaker 9>we like you knows, as.

615
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:13.159
<v Speaker 1>I think that there is a lot to be uh

616
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:19.360
<v Speaker 1>derived from the notion of reality being fundamentally triaddic and

617
00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:23.119
<v Speaker 1>a triad in communion. So I think there's a lot

618
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:25.880
<v Speaker 1>to be gained from that. And uh, you know, I

619
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:29.239
<v Speaker 1>think if you read somebody like Steinyloy three Orthodox Dogmatics,

620
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:33.360
<v Speaker 1>Volume one, Uh, there's some really good information that regard there. W.

621
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:55.039
<v Speaker 1>What's up? W? You know what I mean? I'm going

622
00:37:55.119 --> 00:38:02.800
<v Speaker 1>full red stick snap into us slim jem W can't

623
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:11.840
<v Speaker 1>connect Parker, not Lewis Parker Scott, Parker, Scott, what's up? Man?

624
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:17.199
<v Speaker 1>I have a week kind of week right now. I

625
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:18.960
<v Speaker 1>need some substance. What's up, man?

626
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:21.559
<v Speaker 2>Yo? Can you hear me? Uh?

627
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Huh? What's up?

628
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:25.159
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

629
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:29.079
<v Speaker 10>I've listened to most of your debates and I'm just

630
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:31.639
<v Speaker 10>a little interested in because it seems like with most

631
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:34.239
<v Speaker 10>of your debates, like Alex Malpass, you guys are kind

632
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:36.599
<v Speaker 10>of debating if God exists.

633
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:37.880
<v Speaker 8>And my main.

634
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:40.880
<v Speaker 10>Question for that was for the Transton dental argument.

635
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:42.000
<v Speaker 2>How do you take it.

636
00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:44.519
<v Speaker 11>From say they were like Alex Malpass is like, okay,

637
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:47.159
<v Speaker 11>sure I believe in like a deistic guy, how would

638
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.239
<v Speaker 11>you then use the transcendental argument to point back to

639
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.280
<v Speaker 11>specifically Orthodox Christianity.

640
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:54.639
<v Speaker 2>I haven't heard a debate when you get that far yet.

641
00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:57.599
<v Speaker 10>So I was just wondering what your logic is on that.

642
00:38:57.920 --> 00:38:59.920
<v Speaker 1>I did a whole talk on it. I've done multiple

643
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:04.320
<v Speaker 1>on it. So go back and watch the critique of

644
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Ed Faser. I'll talk about it there Ali, Ali Noggle.

645
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:15.559
<v Speaker 2>Hey, Jay, can you hear me?

646
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:21.400
<v Speaker 12>Huh Hey, thanks for having me on. So I am

647
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:26.679
<v Speaker 12>coming from Protestantism and I've been inquiring into Orthodoxy thanks

648
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:27.239
<v Speaker 12>to your channel.

649
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:27.880
<v Speaker 2>So thank you.

650
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:32.119
<v Speaker 12>And I just have like some like slow boy questions,

651
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:34.440
<v Speaker 12>and I know that this might not be the in

652
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.559
<v Speaker 12>Gopher today, so maybe I can just ask you you

653
00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:39.159
<v Speaker 12>can let me know if these are in Scobe or not.

654
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:41.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm trying to be rude to you, but

655
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:43.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, if it's like Kate Quisa's questions, you can

656
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:45.719
<v Speaker 1>take those to your priest or you know, if you

657
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:48.920
<v Speaker 1>could read the Pomazansky book today. I'm just really looking

658
00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:51.199
<v Speaker 1>for people who are disagreeing or would like to debate.

659
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:54.679
<v Speaker 1>But what other questions, Well.

660
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:56.159
<v Speaker 12>It's I guess you could say it's a little bit

661
00:39:56.199 --> 00:40:00.440
<v Speaker 12>of a debate because you you hold the reception theory

662
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:01.559
<v Speaker 12>of ecumenicism.

663
00:40:01.639 --> 00:40:02.039
<v Speaker 13>Is that right?

664
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:05.559
<v Speaker 12>Or like depraming whether ecumenical councils or.

665
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Can ecumenicism is the acumenist movement that has nothing to

666
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.119
<v Speaker 1>do with ecumenical councils.

667
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:14.559
<v Speaker 12>Right, right, right, Sorry, I misspoke.

668
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:17.480
<v Speaker 1>I think a reception theory is part of our position.

669
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.599
<v Speaker 1>It's not the totality of what makes an ecumenical council

670
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:23.559
<v Speaker 1>and ecumenical council. It's just that part of what will

671
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:28.239
<v Speaker 1>be the public indicator or identifier is if the entire

672
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:31.920
<v Speaker 1>church eventually does receive it. The Orthodox world. So for example,

673
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.039
<v Speaker 1>the Palamide Synods, they're not ecumenical councils because they were

674
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:40.480
<v Speaker 1>local to Byzantium. However, the entire Orthodox world has received

675
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:43.719
<v Speaker 1>those pan Orthodox that you could call them pan Orthodox synods.

676
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:47.280
<v Speaker 12>Now yeah, okay, And so that's kind of where I

677
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:50.840
<v Speaker 12>think the debate comes in, because I was just reading

678
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:55.519
<v Speaker 12>and searing some arguments against that position, such as like,

679
00:40:57.079 --> 00:40:59.840
<v Speaker 12>so if you have like the Fourth Ecumenical Council where

680
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:04.719
<v Speaker 12>a significant portion of the church like disagreed, how do

681
00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:07.840
<v Speaker 12>you determine, like if you're living in that time period,

682
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:11.159
<v Speaker 12>whether it's a schism or whether it's a robber council.

683
00:41:11.239 --> 00:41:14.840
<v Speaker 1>There's nothing in the immedia other than whether the council

684
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:17.679
<v Speaker 1>is teaching something true or false, that's going to tell

685
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:21.599
<v Speaker 1>you that there is no there is no perfect visible indicator,

686
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:25.000
<v Speaker 1>and the papacy does not provide that and cannot provide that.

687
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:27.360
<v Speaker 1>There's multiple cases in the history of the Church where

688
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:30.599
<v Speaker 1>we can't even identify the Roman Catholic listing of that

689
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:35.159
<v Speaker 1>cemitical councils. They differ, they're inconsistent on what the councils are.

690
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:40.800
<v Speaker 1>So there what is being required in that case doesn't exist.

691
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:45.199
<v Speaker 1>There is no such thing. There is no public, juridical

692
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:51.159
<v Speaker 1>thing that can with assured certainty certitude tell you what

693
00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:53.400
<v Speaker 1>is a true versus a false council in some like

694
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:58.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, juridical way, because ultimately it's going to depend

695
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:02.039
<v Speaker 1>on whether the council is teaching truth or falsehood. So

696
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:06.480
<v Speaker 1>on a personal individual level, this still requires and relies

697
00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:10.280
<v Speaker 1>on the Holy Spirit, Okay, okay.

698
00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:11.719
<v Speaker 12>And so you would just simply say that there is

699
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:16.119
<v Speaker 12>no system that would offer like that normative certitude, but

700
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:18.760
<v Speaker 12>it would come down to like an individual.

701
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:25.000
<v Speaker 1>At that point, No, that's normative. Normativity is not certitude.

702
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:29.960
<v Speaker 1>Certitude has to do with your individual existential like convincing

703
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:35.679
<v Speaker 1>of something normativity has to do with moral questions of oughts,

704
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.440
<v Speaker 1>and you know, does any group within history have the

705
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:42.880
<v Speaker 1>authority to bind you, to bind anyone to their interpretation

706
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:44.320
<v Speaker 1>those there are two different questions.

707
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.119
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, okay, okay, thank you so much.

708
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:48.639
<v Speaker 1>Sure, no, those are those are great questions that I'm

709
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:50.119
<v Speaker 1>not trying to be impatient with you. It's just a

710
00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:53.519
<v Speaker 1>I've been in I've been in debate mode all day long.

711
00:42:53.599 --> 00:43:03.679
<v Speaker 1>So lef Ski, patron of Satan. Uh oh to the

712
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:05.400
<v Speaker 1>guy in the chat, Yeah, why don't you call in?

713
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:08.320
<v Speaker 1>If you don't call in, then you just couldn't do it.

714
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:08.679
<v Speaker 1>What's up?

715
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Man?

716
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Hey, what's up?

717
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:12.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

718
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:16.079
<v Speaker 14>So I'll just say my position from the get go.

719
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:17.400
<v Speaker 2>So I'm an atheist.

720
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:20.920
<v Speaker 14>I was raised with an Islamic background, but I very

721
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:24.599
<v Speaker 14>quickly I came to realize that all religion is basically

722
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:29.119
<v Speaker 14>fairy tales and I don't I'm not convinced any supernatural

723
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:33.199
<v Speaker 14>deities exist. So my position would be sort of antithetical

724
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:35.840
<v Speaker 14>to yours. And I think you're you're a deist looking

725
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:39.400
<v Speaker 14>at your profile, sorry, A theist, A Christian theist, yes,

726
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:46.039
<v Speaker 14>sure so, so do you engage in conversations with unbelievers

727
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:47.679
<v Speaker 14>and vice versa.

728
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've debated all the top atheists for the most part.

729
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:54.880
<v Speaker 14>Sure, So are you like a YouTube you just do

730
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:58.480
<v Speaker 14>this thing on like radio spaces and are you debased

731
00:43:58.519 --> 00:43:59.320
<v Speaker 14>on YouTube?

732
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:01.400
<v Speaker 1>No? Only on AM radio.

733
00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Right, right?

734
00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:06.559
<v Speaker 14>But I mean, one good thing is I would say,

735
00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:10.760
<v Speaker 14>is it's good to I like to hear the opposition's

736
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:13.960
<v Speaker 14>argument because that makes you better able to everyone, able

737
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:16.679
<v Speaker 14>to better understand their positions, because what happens a lot

738
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:18.960
<v Speaker 14>of the time is people who don't follow a belief

739
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:22.599
<v Speaker 14>system will straw man or misrepresent the positions. I like

740
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:26.559
<v Speaker 14>to hear firsthand from someone who holds that belief system right,

741
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:30.880
<v Speaker 14>and then they can present their argument in a way

742
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:34.679
<v Speaker 14>that is appropriate to why they believe because a lot

743
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:37.239
<v Speaker 14>of the time, I mean, I'll give you a quick example.

744
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:39.599
<v Speaker 14>When I was growing up, I was getting taught about Hinduism,

745
00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:43.840
<v Speaker 14>and then I was getting told, oh, they worship statues.

746
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.840
<v Speaker 14>But then when I actually spoke to Hindus, they were

747
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.880
<v Speaker 14>saying no. For most Hindus, it's allegorical and metaphorical, so

748
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:53.920
<v Speaker 14>they're not literally were worshiping slashes. So that's why I

749
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:57.079
<v Speaker 14>do like to speak with people on the other side

750
00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:59.239
<v Speaker 14>of my beliefs. We're the political religious.

751
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:03.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, what I would say is you believe in

752
00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:05.679
<v Speaker 1>magical fantasies and fairy tales as an atheist?

753
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:09.559
<v Speaker 2>Sure, sure, but I haven't.

754
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:13.599
<v Speaker 14>I mean, are you saying that from the generic atheist position?

755
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, any any atheist position believes in fantastical, magical fairy tales,

756
00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:20.519
<v Speaker 1>like words having meaning?

757
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:27.800
<v Speaker 14>Okay, I mean what do you mean by that? Could

758
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:28.840
<v Speaker 14>expounder in that piece.

759
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:33.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you read the wvo Quine paper called Two

760
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:37.360
<v Speaker 1>Dogmas of Empiricism, he notes that within the empiricist tradition,

761
00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:42.440
<v Speaker 1>the end result is that there's still this nonsensical idea

762
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:47.559
<v Speaker 1>that words in some way convey meaning about the external

763
00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:51.719
<v Speaker 1>world and about events and phenomenon objects, because it relies

764
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.760
<v Speaker 1>on all kinds of things that are not justified and

765
00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:58.639
<v Speaker 1>cannot be justified in an atheist empiricist worldview. So I

766
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:00.880
<v Speaker 1>would just simply say that you believe in all kinds

767
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:04.159
<v Speaker 1>of If you think that words convey and have meaning,

768
00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:06.320
<v Speaker 1>you believe in flying spaghetti monsters.

769
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:11.960
<v Speaker 14>Okay, Well, we use words for descriptions of certain things,

770
00:46:11.960 --> 00:46:16.679
<v Speaker 14>so certain concepts can be of words which I use

771
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:18.320
<v Speaker 14>for description are used.

772
00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:19.239
<v Speaker 2>For scientific concepts. E.

773
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:21.559
<v Speaker 14>G if you look at if you look at the sun,

774
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:25.880
<v Speaker 14>it's called the sun in English, but in other languages.

775
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.679
<v Speaker 2>It will be called other things. So in do it's called.

776
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:30.360
<v Speaker 14>Sewage, but it would still be the same concept.

777
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:32.079
<v Speaker 2>So whatever, And.

778
00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:36.800
<v Speaker 1>What is the concept in an atheists paradigm?

779
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:37.719
<v Speaker 2>A concept of world?

780
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:39.239
<v Speaker 1>What is a concept at all?

781
00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:42.880
<v Speaker 2>A concept? Is?

782
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.480
<v Speaker 14>It's a commonly understood theme of any anything.

783
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:49.199
<v Speaker 1>It's a thing. Okay, does it matter? Is it molecules?

784
00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:55.079
<v Speaker 14>No, it's it's it's a it's a product of what

785
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:55.559
<v Speaker 14>we are.

786
00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:58.719
<v Speaker 1>But so it's a product of what we are. Dude,

787
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:02.760
<v Speaker 1>you killed it right there. I'm an atheist. Now we're done.

788
00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:12.400
<v Speaker 1>That was too high here, Jim. What's up man? It's

789
00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:16.760
<v Speaker 1>a concept, is a product of what we are. Got it?

790
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:18.400
<v Speaker 1>What's up?

791
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:20.559
<v Speaker 2>Hey? What's up? Jay?

792
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:21.480
<v Speaker 1>What's on your mind?

793
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:22.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

794
00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:26.159
<v Speaker 13>I want to talk to you about Panaea tocos for

795
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:28.320
<v Speaker 13>a second, real quick, just an idea I've never really

796
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:31.000
<v Speaker 13>heard about. Maybe you hit it real quick and then

797
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:35.079
<v Speaker 13>and then let it go. So in orthodoxology, we believe

798
00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:39.800
<v Speaker 13>that the Pataya achieved theosis in a perfect and unrepeatable way,

799
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:46.320
<v Speaker 13>hence making her the vessel for the incarnation. She was

800
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:49.480
<v Speaker 13>the incarnation was able to happen because she said yes.

801
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:51.960
<v Speaker 13>Free will was a gift from God that could not

802
00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:56.280
<v Speaker 13>be taken away. The incarnation required the pa to say.

803
00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes in order for it to happen.

804
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.639
<v Speaker 13>Calvinists and other people that don't believe in free will,

805
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:06.000
<v Speaker 13>who are determinists, for example, they'd have to believe that

806
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:12.079
<v Speaker 13>some babies that die at birth are of the unelected.

807
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:16.320
<v Speaker 13>Then there's elect babies and not elect babies. Sure, as

808
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:20.119
<v Speaker 13>a Calvinist, as a determinist in theology, would you have

809
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:25.840
<v Speaker 13>to believe to some extent that the Panayea was impregnated by.

810
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:26.360
<v Speaker 2>The Father.

811
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:30.519
<v Speaker 13>Without her consent or without her knowledge if you don't

812
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:34.719
<v Speaker 13>accept free will and orthodoxology in that sense.

813
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, in other words, from the Calvinist perspective,

814
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:42.280
<v Speaker 1>everything is under the direct causation of the divine decree,

815
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:47.639
<v Speaker 1>and that would include the moving of Mary's will to

816
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:51.239
<v Speaker 1>accept exactly I agree with that.

817
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:52.559
<v Speaker 13>And then the last thing, which is.

818
00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:54.519
<v Speaker 1>Kind of well, I was I was formerly a Calvinist,

819
00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:56.000
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that's that's what they would say.

820
00:48:56.599 --> 00:48:58.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it just daunted me.

821
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:00.360
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to get your thoughts on.

822
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:02.840
<v Speaker 13>I think it's kind of interesting. And then what are

823
00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:06.599
<v Speaker 13>your thoughts on William Lane Craig in the last month

824
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:12.320
<v Speaker 13>coming out and saying he is a neo, a pollinarian monophysite,

825
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:16.199
<v Speaker 13>and he believes that the ecumenical console's aired.

826
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:19.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean he he's been in a pollinarian for a

827
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.519
<v Speaker 1>long time, so he's been open about that position for years.

828
00:49:23.239 --> 00:49:25.599
<v Speaker 1>The monophysite part is crazy, though, I didn't know he

829
00:49:26.039 --> 00:49:29.079
<v Speaker 1>stay to that. But he also, by the way, you'll notice,

830
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:31.639
<v Speaker 1>the confusion of nature in person is precisely what would

831
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:33.159
<v Speaker 1>lead him to say he agrees with him an off

832
00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:36.320
<v Speaker 1>side position. He also, i think, rejects the eternal generation

833
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:37.960
<v Speaker 1>of the sun. So he's like total heritit.

834
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:41.119
<v Speaker 13>But yeah, and when you tell him that a Unitarian

835
00:49:41.119 --> 00:49:43.320
<v Speaker 13>would use the same argument that he does from sol

836
00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:46.320
<v Speaker 13>subscript soloscriptur to do what he's doing, He's like no,

837
00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:50.280
<v Speaker 13>or like Kevin Ortlund talks about icons being not good,

838
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:53.400
<v Speaker 13>a Unitarian can make the exact same argument they can,

839
00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:54.719
<v Speaker 13>and it's just ridiculous.

840
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:56.079
<v Speaker 2>But that's it. I'll let you go.

841
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:58.559
<v Speaker 1>I know he wanted it more debate, So now, yeah,

842
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:00.639
<v Speaker 1>those are great questions and a great point. I think,

843
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:03.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, you run into all kinds of theological issues

844
00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:09.400
<v Speaker 1>with the basically, to speak, in terms of philosophy metaphysics,

845
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Calvinism denies secondary causes, and so if they were consistent,

846
00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:17.039
<v Speaker 1>they would really be Muslims. I mean they're really they

847
00:50:17.079 --> 00:50:22.599
<v Speaker 1>would be occasionalist like many Sunni Muslims are. And actually

848
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:25.000
<v Speaker 1>some Calvinists have been occasionalists. For those who don't know,

849
00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:30.079
<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Edwards was famously an occasionalist, so pretty pretty much

850
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:35.079
<v Speaker 1>identical to Islam. Tim. Now, guys, remember we're supposed to

851
00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:39.000
<v Speaker 1>have a Roman Catholic debate tonight. I forget the guy's name,

852
00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:45.400
<v Speaker 1>but he's just one second. He's Tim Gordon's buddy and

853
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:49.119
<v Speaker 1>nice guy. I think his name's Chris or something like that.

854
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:53.920
<v Speaker 1>But he took issue with my video on the temporal

855
00:50:53.960 --> 00:51:00.000
<v Speaker 1>supremacy of the pope. When I'm signed them, go ahead,

856
00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Hey Jay, what's up? What's on your mind?

857
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:06.119
<v Speaker 2>I had a couple questions.

858
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:10.639
<v Speaker 15>One of them was not not sort of a debate,

859
00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:14.079
<v Speaker 15>more of a clarification. The other one I wanted to

860
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:18.039
<v Speaker 15>kind of challenge something. But the first one I just

861
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:21.400
<v Speaker 15>wanted to preface it with a a and like a

862
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:25.119
<v Speaker 15>kind of apologize for anything I will say because it's

863
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:29.280
<v Speaker 15>it can be viewed as maybe blasphemous or maybe out

864
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.920
<v Speaker 15>of my ignorance, but I just wanted to like have

865
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:38.159
<v Speaker 15>a clarification. Why is the Eucharist not viewed as a

866
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:40.480
<v Speaker 15>like a ritualistic cannibalism.

867
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:44.079
<v Speaker 1>Like, well, the liturgy it calls us, it calls it

868
00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:49.800
<v Speaker 1>the bloodless noetic sacrifice. So it's a bloodless rational offering

869
00:51:50.360 --> 00:51:54.199
<v Speaker 1>because Christ deified the flesh that he assumed. It is

870
00:51:54.239 --> 00:51:58.280
<v Speaker 1>not a human sacrifice that is, you know, appeasing divine

871
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:01.079
<v Speaker 1>wrath like some sort of you know, like Zeus or something.

872
00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:05.519
<v Speaker 15>Okay, so the difference would be kind of cannibalism is

873
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:08.079
<v Speaker 15>where it's not consensual.

874
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:11.880
<v Speaker 1>It's also not an offering of the dead, right, it's

875
00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:16.559
<v Speaker 1>an offering of the deified living flesh of the god

876
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:20.920
<v Speaker 1>man who as the high priest, is offering his humanity

877
00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:25.599
<v Speaker 1>to the triad. And that's explained in the medieval Byzantine

878
00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Synods that it's not a human sacrifice, cannibal offering of

879
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:33.920
<v Speaker 1>the dead to pay off the angry God the Father.

880
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:38.360
<v Speaker 1>That's all pagan theology. Orthodox theology is that the second

881
00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:40.800
<v Speaker 1>person of the God had assumed human nature to deify it,

882
00:52:41.079 --> 00:52:45.079
<v Speaker 1>to raise it up to divine trinitarian life, so very

883
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:47.719
<v Speaker 1>different attitude from the sort of pagan view.

884
00:52:48.920 --> 00:52:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that makes sense.

885
00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:53.559
<v Speaker 15>And then my second question was as someone coming from

886
00:52:53.679 --> 00:53:00.760
<v Speaker 15>Protestant background inquiring into Orthodoxy, and I do think that historically, theologically,

887
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:05.280
<v Speaker 15>the Orthodox, I would say, is much more correct on Protestantism.

888
00:53:05.559 --> 00:53:08.719
<v Speaker 15>But I just maybe you can clarify on a critique

889
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:13.760
<v Speaker 15>of sola scriptura, the critique of the interpretations and the

890
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:19.960
<v Speaker 15>normative authority to tell you which interpretations are correct. So why,

891
00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:24.480
<v Speaker 15>for example, when between like Orthodox and Coptic and Catholic

892
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:29.679
<v Speaker 15>interpretations of tradition, you would argue, like, the coherence of

893
00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:35.440
<v Speaker 15>the tradition correct.

894
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:37.800
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't know that I would if I was

895
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:41.840
<v Speaker 1>arguing like with a Coptic or a Roman Catholic person, No,

896
00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:45.639
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't argue that coherence necessarily proves it, unless it

897
00:53:45.760 --> 00:53:47.960
<v Speaker 1>was some sort of like a roundabout or argument like

898
00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:52.079
<v Speaker 1>I mean by extension. When I debated with Obara, I

899
00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:55.639
<v Speaker 1>was kind of arguing that there's no quote coherence because

900
00:53:55.800 --> 00:53:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Roman Catholicism at a fundamental level can contradict and pre

901
00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:02.199
<v Speaker 1>Vatican two and post into teaching. So in that sense,

902
00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:06.679
<v Speaker 1>it was kind of a coherence argument, but not really

903
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:08.519
<v Speaker 1>like most of the time, if it's a Roman Catholic

904
00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:11.840
<v Speaker 1>or a Coptic, you kind of have to go into

905
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:16.239
<v Speaker 1>the history to prove that case. Like there's no way

906
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:20.360
<v Speaker 1>to really argue like papism without looking at the history

907
00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:22.199
<v Speaker 1>of the rise of the papacy, you know what I mean.

908
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:23.920
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know that I would. I don't think

909
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:28.039
<v Speaker 1>I would argue necessarily holism, except in the case of

910
00:54:28.119 --> 00:54:31.320
<v Speaker 1>like trying to argue at a system level, like I

911
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:33.280
<v Speaker 1>did to a Barro, because my argument to a Borrow

912
00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:38.280
<v Speaker 1>was if Roman Catholicism at a dogmatic level contradicts at all,

913
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:41.679
<v Speaker 1>that invalidates the whole system. And I was doing that

914
00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:46.519
<v Speaker 1>to try to not let Eric make the case that

915
00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:49.960
<v Speaker 1>he could like stack up one hundred different evidences to

916
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:53.800
<v Speaker 1>prove ninety eight percent of the papacy. Right, if I,

917
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:58.000
<v Speaker 1>at a system level can invalidate the system with just

918
00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:01.360
<v Speaker 1>one dogmatic Roman Catholic contradiction and then all of that

919
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:05.280
<v Speaker 1>wasting everyone's time with yapping for five hours to get

920
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:07.840
<v Speaker 1>out three sentences to prove the papacy, he goes out

921
00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:08.199
<v Speaker 1>the door.

922
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:12.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that.

923
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:16.920
<v Speaker 15>I kind of see what you mean, Mike, Basically my

924
00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:23.800
<v Speaker 15>point is, why can't I argue like the same thing

925
00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:30.519
<v Speaker 15>within scripture, like if power to its kind of going

926
00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:32.760
<v Speaker 15>off of what I said about the coherence, like, why

927
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:36.880
<v Speaker 15>can't I argue like the most coherent view of scripture

928
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:40.639
<v Speaker 15>and disregard all others.

929
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:45.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's not that you couldn't, it's just that that's

930
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:49.480
<v Speaker 1>going to take a really long roundabout. It's going to

931
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:53.519
<v Speaker 1>be very difficult in a debate setting to show that,

932
00:55:53.719 --> 00:55:59.280
<v Speaker 1>because a holistic argument means you're reconciling all of the parts.

933
00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:02.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the Bible is thousands of pages. It's just

934
00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:06.840
<v Speaker 1>a huge endeavor. It's kind of impractical on a debate

935
00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:08.920
<v Speaker 1>setting level to do that. Now, if you're like teaching

936
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:12.599
<v Speaker 1>a college course and you want to demonstrate the coherence

937
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:16.480
<v Speaker 1>of Christianity, you know, throughout a whole semester lecturing through

938
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:18.360
<v Speaker 1>the totality of the Bible, maybe you could do that.

939
00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:21.039
<v Speaker 1>But just for like a debate setting, it's just very

940
00:56:21.079 --> 00:56:26.679
<v Speaker 1>difficult to try to argue holistic coherence accept in the

941
00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:33.440
<v Speaker 1>case of like atheism, because atheism is so fundamentally incoherent

942
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:36.199
<v Speaker 1>at a base level that all you really need to

943
00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:41.519
<v Speaker 1>do is demonstrate not that your worldview is exhaustively coherent,

944
00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:44.519
<v Speaker 1>but that you have the possibility of coherence at all,

945
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:47.320
<v Speaker 1>versus an atheist worldview where there's no coherence. The problem

946
00:56:47.360 --> 00:56:50.559
<v Speaker 1>is that when you're arguing with other theistic positions, they're

947
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:55.719
<v Speaker 1>not going to immediately be fundamentally incoherent, like like an

948
00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:57.519
<v Speaker 1>atheist would be. Does that make sense?

949
00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:03.719
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, I see, okay, that makes sense.

950
00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think it's just a longer, more difficult route.

951
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:11.239
<v Speaker 1>Like I mean, even in that Ibarra debate, like I

952
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:13.920
<v Speaker 1>don't think for a lot of the Roman Catholic audience

953
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.559
<v Speaker 1>or for Ebarra himself, like I don't think they got

954
00:57:16.599 --> 00:57:19.280
<v Speaker 1>the point I was making. I mean, I tried over

955
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:21.800
<v Speaker 1>and over to say that I'm just going to add

956
00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:25.639
<v Speaker 1>a systemic level, try to prove that the Roman system contradicts,

957
00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:28.119
<v Speaker 1>and that just blows their mind because they don't think

958
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:30.000
<v Speaker 1>in terms of systems. They only think in terms of

959
00:57:30.039 --> 00:57:37.599
<v Speaker 1>like piecemeal building it from the bottom up. So so

960
00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:40.519
<v Speaker 1>I guess I just don't, like give me an example

961
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:42.840
<v Speaker 1>like you're saying, like what if I tried to debate

962
00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:47.559
<v Speaker 1>a Protestant that my worldview from the Bible, I can

963
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:52.000
<v Speaker 1>give a completely coherent totality interpretation of the Bible and

964
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:54.519
<v Speaker 1>your Protestant world. You can't do that. It's going to

965
00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:57.679
<v Speaker 1>be really hard to demonstrate that. I'm not saying you can't,

966
00:57:57.880 --> 00:57:59.960
<v Speaker 1>but I'm just kind of I'm sure.

967
00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:05.960
<v Speaker 15>Is the critique of the different interpretations of the Bible

968
00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:09.639
<v Speaker 15>a very good critique for solicituture, because I mean one

969
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:12.840
<v Speaker 15>could a Protestant could just argue that themselves, even though

970
00:58:13.119 --> 00:58:14.719
<v Speaker 15>for them it would take a really long time. They

971
00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:18.000
<v Speaker 15>could just argue that the Bible is my only authority,

972
00:58:18.039 --> 00:58:22.119
<v Speaker 15>and I will provide a completely totally coherent world you

973
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:23.920
<v Speaker 15>strictly based on the Bible.

974
00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:26.000
<v Speaker 2>So I'm just wondering if well.

975
00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:28.000
<v Speaker 1>At that level, no, I wouldn't even grant that. I

976
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:30.000
<v Speaker 1>would just go to, well, you can't really have the

977
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Bible without the Church determining the canon. I wouldn't even

978
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:35.360
<v Speaker 1>go into all that would just cut all that off.

979
00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:39.599
<v Speaker 1>And otherwise, like part of debate is also I think

980
00:58:39.639 --> 00:58:44.519
<v Speaker 1>the skill set of knowing like quickest cut to the chase,

981
00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:49.079
<v Speaker 1>rather than allowing the opponent to like yap for hours,

982
00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:52.039
<v Speaker 1>and that just ends up kind of distracting and going

983
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:55.920
<v Speaker 1>down you know, red herring trail, rabbit trails, and in

984
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:58.280
<v Speaker 1>a debate. It's a lot more effective to keep it

985
00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:01.360
<v Speaker 1>on one topic and just cut to the chase. Now,

986
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:03.760
<v Speaker 1>you might say, well, when you argue with that Mormon dude,

987
00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:05.719
<v Speaker 1>you moved to a different topic. I moved to a

988
00:59:05.719 --> 00:59:08.840
<v Speaker 1>different topic when the Mormon dude lied about God the

989
00:59:08.840 --> 00:59:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Father and wouldn't he wasn't gonna be honest with that.

990
00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:13.159
<v Speaker 1>So that's why I moved over to theseph smith adding

991
00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:16.239
<v Speaker 1>verses to Genesis, because like, let's move on to a

992
00:59:16.280 --> 00:59:19.239
<v Speaker 1>different topic, right, So I think part of that what

993
00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:25.239
<v Speaker 1>you're talking about is like experience, lived experience with debate

994
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:28.840
<v Speaker 1>and figuring out, like what for the sake of the

995
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:32.719
<v Speaker 1>audience might be a better course to take rather than

996
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:36.119
<v Speaker 1>letting some goober yap for five hours to try to

997
00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:41.079
<v Speaker 1>like it's just like, yeah, let some Protestant come on

998
00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:43.960
<v Speaker 1>and give a ten hour course lecture to prove that

999
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:46.760
<v Speaker 1>he has a coherent interpretation of the Bible. Is just

1000
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:48.239
<v Speaker 1>I think that's a complete waste of time.

1001
00:59:49.599 --> 00:59:54.239
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, And then so yeah, the interpretation critique isn't self

1002
00:59:54.320 --> 00:59:57.159
<v Speaker 15>isn't sufficient on its own and about the canon?

1003
00:59:57.519 --> 00:59:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Would let me let me restate that I think that

1004
00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:04.239
<v Speaker 1>the interpretation critique is a good way to demonstrate the

1005
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:08.480
<v Speaker 1>need for normative authority. That's where that works, because no

1006
01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:12.159
<v Speaker 1>Protestants believe that there's any body of men within history

1007
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:15.320
<v Speaker 1>that have the normative authority to bind your conscience to

1008
01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:19.599
<v Speaker 1>an interpretation. So it is a great apologetic and practical

1009
01:00:19.639 --> 01:00:23.519
<v Speaker 1>point to say to the Protestants, you don't think Jesus

1010
01:00:23.559 --> 01:00:27.360
<v Speaker 1>provided the Church any means to, you know, settle issues

1011
01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:31.760
<v Speaker 1>authoritatively and bind people's conscience. When the framers of America

1012
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:33.960
<v Speaker 1>were smart enough to know that we needed a Supreme

1013
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Court to interpret the Constitution, they didn't just mail out

1014
01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:39.320
<v Speaker 1>constitutions to everybody in America to interpret on their own.

1015
01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:43.239
<v Speaker 1>You see. I mean even the founding fathers had enough

1016
01:00:43.639 --> 01:00:46.480
<v Speaker 1>foresight to know that we would need some governing body

1017
01:00:46.519 --> 01:00:51.079
<v Speaker 1>to interpret the document authoritatively versus you know, Jesus just

1018
01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:55.320
<v Speaker 1>gives everybody this, you know, these letters and then you know,

1019
01:00:55.800 --> 01:00:57.960
<v Speaker 1>good luck, hope you hope, you hope you keep it

1020
01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:01.480
<v Speaker 1>together out there like he did that provide a group

1021
01:01:01.519 --> 01:01:03.599
<v Speaker 1>of people to know rule the church.

1022
01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:10.159
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, My question is they would instead of appealing to

1023
01:01:10.239 --> 01:01:13.480
<v Speaker 15>normative authority, like you'd have a normative authority to tell

1024
01:01:13.519 --> 01:01:16.159
<v Speaker 15>you that this is the correct interpretation and then the

1025
01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:18.840
<v Speaker 15>Protestant would say, well, I can tell you why this

1026
01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:22.400
<v Speaker 15>is the correct interpretation because your interpretations incoherent.

1027
01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:24.519
<v Speaker 1>Why is that not like a valid thing they can

1028
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:29.199
<v Speaker 1>do well? Because it's missing the point that all classical

1029
01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:32.639
<v Speaker 1>Protestantism is built on history. Who can bind your conscience?

1030
01:01:35.239 --> 01:01:41.159
<v Speaker 1>Protestanism is built on the idea that the foundational doctrines

1031
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:44.079
<v Speaker 1>of the Reformation are things like freedom of worship and

1032
01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:44.960
<v Speaker 1>freedom of conscience.

1033
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so okay.

1034
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:49.920
<v Speaker 1>So if they if they started so, they would be

1035
01:01:49.960 --> 01:01:53.519
<v Speaker 1>surrendered to, not hold to that would mean surrendering basic

1036
01:01:53.559 --> 01:01:54.639
<v Speaker 1>Protestant principles.

1037
01:01:55.079 --> 01:01:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

1038
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:58.719
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, So even if they provide a fully coherent and

1039
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:02.920
<v Speaker 15>show me that my interpretations incoherent, they can't actually tell

1040
01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:06.920
<v Speaker 15>me that I have to believe their their interpretation.

1041
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Basically, Yeah, I mean one of the Protestant basics is

1042
01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:17.679
<v Speaker 1>the right of private interpretation. As Orthodox or even a

1043
01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:20.559
<v Speaker 1>Roman Catholic like that doesn't exist. Where did you get

1044
01:02:20.559 --> 01:02:22.760
<v Speaker 1>the idea that you have a right of private interpretation?

1045
01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:28.559
<v Speaker 15>And then about the canon, I just want like a

1046
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:33.320
<v Speaker 15>clarification about so like a common thing they will try

1047
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:36.920
<v Speaker 15>to say, isn't that these scriptures and self themselves are

1048
01:02:37.159 --> 01:02:43.960
<v Speaker 15>like inherently authoritative by nature, and then whichever ones of

1049
01:02:43.960 --> 01:02:46.800
<v Speaker 15>those are, they come out in history. And I understand

1050
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:49.559
<v Speaker 15>that it's kind of begging the question, but I just

1051
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:49.960
<v Speaker 15>want to.

1052
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:52.239
<v Speaker 1>Well again, think of that, think of the analogy to

1053
01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:56.159
<v Speaker 1>the Constitution and the Supreme Court. I mean, it's fine

1054
01:02:56.199 --> 01:02:59.559
<v Speaker 1>to say that the documents are authoritative, but documents don't

1055
01:02:59.599 --> 01:03:03.719
<v Speaker 1>do any thing on their own. They require interpretation. And

1056
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:08.280
<v Speaker 1>it's obviously ridiculous to think that, oh, well, this is

1057
01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:10.280
<v Speaker 1>just up to everybody to figure out on their own.

1058
01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:13.239
<v Speaker 1>And think of the implications of this. This would mean

1059
01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:17.119
<v Speaker 1>that nobody within history can actually resolve any issues because

1060
01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:20.920
<v Speaker 1>they could conceivably be wrong. And then every successive generation

1061
01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:24.800
<v Speaker 1>must reinvent the wheel and rediscover and go through every

1062
01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:30.559
<v Speaker 1>historical chaos and squabble all over again. So we're we

1063
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:32.400
<v Speaker 1>have to read to the airing crisis, we have to

1064
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:34.960
<v Speaker 1>read to the montanous crisis. We have to read So

1065
01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:39.320
<v Speaker 1>it just is silly and unworkable to think that the

1066
01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:44.440
<v Speaker 1>texts do anything on their own without people interpreting the text.

1067
01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:47.760
<v Speaker 1>That's why Paul says the pillaring foundation of truth is

1068
01:03:47.800 --> 01:03:51.840
<v Speaker 1>the church, the living community. It's not the books or

1069
01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:54.000
<v Speaker 1>the parchments that are the pillar and ground of truth.

1070
01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:58.960
<v Speaker 1>The church is who produced the parchments, the writings, the text.

1071
01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:02.320
<v Speaker 1>They have authority, but they only have authority within the

1072
01:04:02.360 --> 01:04:05.599
<v Speaker 1>context from which they emerge and the very community who

1073
01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:07.599
<v Speaker 1>decided what books go into that book.

1074
01:04:09.880 --> 01:04:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

1075
01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:14.559
<v Speaker 15>And about the church, what exactly does it mean that

1076
01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:16.119
<v Speaker 15>the Church is the body of Christ.

1077
01:04:17.719 --> 01:04:22.679
<v Speaker 1>It literally means that the continuation of the incarnation is

1078
01:04:22.760 --> 01:04:27.079
<v Speaker 1>that the Church is a theanthropic god man institution, that

1079
01:04:27.159 --> 01:04:30.639
<v Speaker 1>we are the actual limbs and body of Christ on earth.

1080
01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:35.639
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, but it's you wouldn't say, like one part of

1081
01:04:36.079 --> 01:04:39.559
<v Speaker 15>the church institution on earth is like the eye of

1082
01:04:39.679 --> 01:04:41.159
<v Speaker 15>Jesus or the liver of Jesus.

1083
01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't mean when Paul explains that, he means that spiritual

1084
01:04:45.079 --> 01:04:48.679
<v Speaker 1>gifts is what he's referring to. Right, So eyes are

1085
01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:52.480
<v Speaker 1>like foresight, the gift of prophecy and so forth. I

1086
01:04:52.519 --> 01:04:54.880
<v Speaker 1>don't mean prophecy in the sense of Old Testament prophets.

1087
01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:56.679
<v Speaker 1>That just mean it in the sense of like elders

1088
01:04:56.719 --> 01:04:59.800
<v Speaker 1>and some of the spiritual gifts. Obviously, he's not literally

1089
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:01.840
<v Speaker 1>saying like you are the eyes of Jesus.

1090
01:05:03.679 --> 01:05:08.840
<v Speaker 15>So what distinct like if Jesus took upon a universal

1091
01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:12.960
<v Speaker 15>human nature, would in Jesus's body be all of all

1092
01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:16.679
<v Speaker 15>of humans. What distinguishes Jesus, the body of Jesus Christ

1093
01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:18.320
<v Speaker 15>being the Church, from all other humans.

1094
01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:22.039
<v Speaker 1>What that means is that in his single divine hypostasis,

1095
01:05:22.079 --> 01:05:26.400
<v Speaker 1>he's able to recapitulate all human nature as the second atom.

1096
01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:30.199
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't mean he assumed every single human hypostasis. He

1097
01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:34.960
<v Speaker 1>assumed in his single body and single human nature, the

1098
01:05:35.119 --> 01:05:38.639
<v Speaker 1>universality of human nature by recapitulating it. Just like Adam.

1099
01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:42.639
<v Speaker 1>What Adam did, it affected all of his descendants. So likewise,

1100
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:46.039
<v Speaker 1>Christ as the new atom, will affect all of his descendants.

1101
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:50.519
<v Speaker 1>So every human being will be resurrected because of that universality.

1102
01:05:50.679 --> 01:05:53.039
<v Speaker 1>But it doesn't mean that every individual human person or

1103
01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:57.239
<v Speaker 1>human hypostasis will participate in theosis, because that's dependent upon

1104
01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:01.119
<v Speaker 1>you in your own mode of willing, attaining the virtues,

1105
01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:06.400
<v Speaker 1>attaining the Holy Spirit, attaining thiosis, et cetera. But it

1106
01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:09.840
<v Speaker 1>does not mean that Christ is incarnated in every single

1107
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:13.519
<v Speaker 1>human being. It means that in the single human body

1108
01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:16.559
<v Speaker 1>that he took from the Virgin Mary, he was able

1109
01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:22.719
<v Speaker 1>to recapitulate and encapsulate all human nature. How because he's

1110
01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:25.599
<v Speaker 1>a divine person, that's all. That's the explanation that's given

1111
01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:30.559
<v Speaker 1>at this sab of Ecumentical Council in St. Theodore's writing

1112
01:06:30.559 --> 01:06:33.159
<v Speaker 1>about how he's the universal man.

1113
01:06:33.199 --> 01:06:37.559
<v Speaker 2>You could say, okay, thank you. Yeah, they clarified quite

1114
01:06:37.599 --> 01:06:37.880
<v Speaker 2>a bit.

1115
01:06:37.960 --> 01:06:40.400
<v Speaker 15>I mean, I wouldn't say understand everything full least of

1116
01:06:40.599 --> 01:06:42.320
<v Speaker 15>quite a bit of reading to do, but thank you.

1117
01:06:42.519 --> 01:06:42.719
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

1118
01:06:42.760 --> 01:06:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, those are great questions. So I think we had

1119
01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:50.880
<v Speaker 1>a mkg five dollars, Jay, could you check the second

1120
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:52.840
<v Speaker 1>part of the super chat I sent I have to go.

1121
01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:54.360
<v Speaker 1>I was hoping I'd get an answer to that and

1122
01:06:54.440 --> 01:07:00.480
<v Speaker 1>later rewatch, let's see, let's go back. I just know

1123
01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:02.519
<v Speaker 1>that aside from Hebrews, is there any other texts that

1124
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:05.000
<v Speaker 1>I should read in order to discuss this point with you?

1125
01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:08.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know later, I mean, really, this comes

1126
01:07:08.840 --> 01:07:11.360
<v Speaker 1>down to a presupposition about the doctrine of the church.

1127
01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:14.159
<v Speaker 1>So you know you're gonna need to read like the

1128
01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Gospel of John or we have the promises that Jesus

1129
01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:19.360
<v Speaker 1>gave to the church and the apostles that the Holy

1130
01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:21.639
<v Speaker 1>Spirit would come upon them, lead them and guide them.

1131
01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:24.599
<v Speaker 1>That's what we see an acts two. That's Pentecost. And

1132
01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:27.320
<v Speaker 1>so the idea that you know, Paul could get everything

1133
01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:30.519
<v Speaker 1>wrong and the other Apostles were right, but Paul rebuked them.

1134
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this would really just be to undo the

1135
01:07:32.639 --> 01:07:37.760
<v Speaker 1>entire promise that Jesus says in John fourteen fifteen, sixteen

1136
01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:40.559
<v Speaker 1>seventeen that this Holy Spirit will guide the Church, lead

1137
01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:42.719
<v Speaker 1>it into all truth. I will never leave you, forsake you.

1138
01:07:42.719 --> 01:07:44.719
<v Speaker 1>I will not leave his orphans. I will be with

1139
01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:46.400
<v Speaker 1>you until the end of the age, et cetera, et cetera,

1140
01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:48.960
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. I mean, those are all promises that relate

1141
01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:51.519
<v Speaker 1>to Pentecost and the company of the Holy Spirit. So

1142
01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:55.199
<v Speaker 1>the idea that the Church could be in some great apostasy,

1143
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:58.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean this is really remember MKG, this is what

1144
01:07:58.159 --> 01:08:00.840
<v Speaker 1>the Mormon guy was saying, right, Mormon is grounded on

1145
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:03.679
<v Speaker 1>this idea. After the Apostles died, there was a great apostasy,

1146
01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and so this lunatic Masonic con man eighteen hundred years

1147
01:08:07.480 --> 01:08:11.880
<v Speaker 1>later is restoring the original Apostolic Church and teaching right

1148
01:08:12.760 --> 01:08:19.000
<v Speaker 1>similar idea to if you believe that Paul subverted Christianity

1149
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:22.680
<v Speaker 1>like Mormons or Acumu like a Muslims, some of the

1150
01:08:22.760 --> 01:08:25.800
<v Speaker 1>Muslims say, first of all, that didn't make sense in Islam,

1151
01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:28.199
<v Speaker 1>by the way, because in the Quran it actually says

1152
01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:30.520
<v Speaker 1>that the followers of Jesus will be made victorious by

1153
01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:34.800
<v Speaker 1>a law, as Samshuan points out, so that means Paul,

1154
01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Paul was a follower of Jesus, and so Paul's victorious.

1155
01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:41.640
<v Speaker 1>So again the Koran contradicts. But you know, to get

1156
01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:46.560
<v Speaker 1>back to whether it's Mormonism or whether it's some I mean,

1157
01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:50.199
<v Speaker 1>there's some sects like Marcian. Marcian said something like I think,

1158
01:08:50.239 --> 01:08:54.319
<v Speaker 1>didn't Marcian say that Paul was a subverter of Christianity.

1159
01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:59.239
<v Speaker 1>So really this would be to deny the promise of

1160
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:01.199
<v Speaker 1>the coming of the Spirit, is what that amounts to.

1161
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:03.840
<v Speaker 1>And it would be to admit that that the gates

1162
01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:06.920
<v Speaker 1>of Hell prevailed against the Church, because essentially, after the

1163
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:12.840
<v Speaker 1>death of Apostles, none of these weird cult sectarian positions succeeded.

1164
01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Remember the debate with Bryson, what that he is? Fallacy,

1165
01:09:18.399 --> 01:09:22.399
<v Speaker 1>what that he is? Remember remember Bryson Gray Bryson says, oh,

1166
01:09:22.600 --> 01:09:28.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, the true Judaism, Christianity of arian Rian Judaizing,

1167
01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:32.920
<v Speaker 1>whatever gibberish, he's made up. That's the real Christianity that's

1168
01:09:33.079 --> 01:09:36.079
<v Speaker 1>secretly existing in all these centuries. Oh, what's the evidence

1169
01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:40.640
<v Speaker 1>of that? Because Juizers, that's them, that's the amp Oh,

1170
01:09:40.720 --> 01:09:42.840
<v Speaker 1>it's a million different groups with a bunch of different

1171
01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:46.840
<v Speaker 1>conflicting the theologies. Some of them Arians, some of the Trinitarian.

1172
01:09:47.840 --> 01:09:51.199
<v Speaker 1>That's the true Christianity because they're Judaizers. That's so stupid.

1173
01:09:51.199 --> 01:09:57.319
<v Speaker 1>The Bryson argument was right. In other words, what the

1174
01:09:57.319 --> 01:10:01.239
<v Speaker 1>the premise that you have, MKG is essentially the Bryson,

1175
01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:07.720
<v Speaker 1>Gray and Mormon whatever premise that Jesus didn't provide the

1176
01:10:07.760 --> 01:10:10.880
<v Speaker 1>guidance of the Church to the Holy Spirit at Pentecosts.

1177
01:10:14.760 --> 01:10:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Normy Slayer twenty five dollars, jay, I, thank you. I

1178
01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:20.159
<v Speaker 1>think that once we get rid of fluoride in the water,

1179
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:23.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot of these normies will perhaps begin to understand

1180
01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:26.039
<v Speaker 1>the words that come out of your mouth. You know,

1181
01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:28.399
<v Speaker 1>that could be a factor obviously, you know, dumbing down

1182
01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:31.960
<v Speaker 1>toxic environment. But keep in mind too, as we point out,

1183
01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:34.439
<v Speaker 1>as fda off and points out, you know a lot

1184
01:10:34.479 --> 01:10:36.760
<v Speaker 1>of the issues that we're discussing, that we're talking about,

1185
01:10:37.680 --> 01:10:41.800
<v Speaker 1>there is an intellectual element and component but the ultimate

1186
01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:45.840
<v Speaker 1>root of all the problems is not intellectual. Man's problem

1187
01:10:45.880 --> 01:10:48.680
<v Speaker 1>is not intellect. Man's problem is not a lack of

1188
01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:54.960
<v Speaker 1>facts and knowledge. It's pride. Pride is man's problem at root,

1189
01:10:55.520 --> 01:10:58.439
<v Speaker 1>not intellect. And if that intellect can be a great

1190
01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:02.600
<v Speaker 1>stumbling block and a source of pride. Now there's a factor,

1191
01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:06.960
<v Speaker 1>an element to which, yes, people need to be presented

1192
01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:10.840
<v Speaker 1>with the correct positions against their false positions, which does

1193
01:11:10.920 --> 01:11:14.880
<v Speaker 1>relate to intellect. But coming out of a false position

1194
01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:19.159
<v Speaker 1>and into the true position is not ultimately KeyPoint an

1195
01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:25.239
<v Speaker 1>intellectual problem. It's a pride heart problem. And so no

1196
01:11:25.359 --> 01:11:30.600
<v Speaker 1>one will accept the truth without repenting first, and repentance

1197
01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:36.560
<v Speaker 1>requires humility, which is the antidote to the vice of pride.

1198
01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Nicodemus one dollar. I bought zero point one BTC in August.

1199
01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:47.640
<v Speaker 1>It has doubled since then. Almost I couldn't have done

1200
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:50.479
<v Speaker 1>this without you. Well, hey, look, as everybody at the

1201
01:11:50.479 --> 01:11:54.479
<v Speaker 1>Bitcoin says, every SAT counts, so even if you're buying

1202
01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:58.159
<v Speaker 1>small amounts of SATs, it all will count in long run.

1203
01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Buggy three dollars. A month ago, you made a comment

1204
01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:06.119
<v Speaker 1>about Pope Francis. At the end you said Vatican one

1205
01:12:06.279 --> 01:12:09.880
<v Speaker 1>says that the pope is infallible in faith and morals. Yes,

1206
01:12:10.359 --> 01:12:14.000
<v Speaker 1>even if he isn't speaking ex cathedral, where is that? Yes,

1207
01:12:14.039 --> 01:12:20.560
<v Speaker 1>it is the Vatican one statements talking about ordinary magisterium.

1208
01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:26.720
<v Speaker 1>So let me show you that. By the way, I've

1209
01:12:26.720 --> 01:12:29.479
<v Speaker 1>made multiple videos on this topic, so you can go

1210
01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:34.119
<v Speaker 1>back to my Vatican one documents or videos that I've

1211
01:12:34.119 --> 01:12:35.359
<v Speaker 1>done have dent at least two or three of those

1212
01:12:35.399 --> 01:12:37.439
<v Speaker 1>of Vatican one, And you can look at the video

1213
01:12:37.479 --> 01:12:40.479
<v Speaker 1>I made called was Vatican two Infallible? Which refutes the

1214
01:12:40.520 --> 01:12:44.560
<v Speaker 1>tragcats who think that they can really nearly hand wave

1215
01:12:44.640 --> 01:12:47.159
<v Speaker 1>Vatican two and they're not bound by it, because the

1216
01:12:47.159 --> 01:12:51.199
<v Speaker 1>stupidity of this position is that, I mean, even I

1217
01:12:51.479 --> 01:12:56.680
<v Speaker 1>don't think that it's not dogmatic, Vatican two is absolutely

1218
01:12:56.800 --> 01:12:59.720
<v Speaker 1>obviously a dogmatic Roman Catholic council. They point to these

1219
01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:03.880
<v Speaker 1>ridiculous statements like when Paul the six says it was pastoral,

1220
01:13:04.760 --> 01:13:08.520
<v Speaker 1>So something pastoral. Calling something pastoral doesn't mean that it's

1221
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:12.479
<v Speaker 1>not dogmatic. Guphases. You could literally say every ecumenical council

1222
01:13:12.800 --> 01:13:16.079
<v Speaker 1>is quote pastoral, that doesn't mean it's not dogmatic. And

1223
01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:18.000
<v Speaker 1>then they go to this other stupid quote which says

1224
01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:23.479
<v Speaker 1>that Vatican two, uh defined no new dogmas. Yeah, so

1225
01:13:23.600 --> 01:13:26.279
<v Speaker 1>what that doesn't mean that it's not also still stating

1226
01:13:26.479 --> 01:13:32.479
<v Speaker 1>older dogmas. This is the level of casuistri and sophistry

1227
01:13:32.479 --> 01:13:34.600
<v Speaker 1>that you deal with it with these idiot Roman Catholics.

1228
01:13:34.640 --> 01:13:36.199
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I've dealt with it for a year when

1229
01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:39.039
<v Speaker 1>I was an idiot Romancalic. So let's look at Vatican one.

1230
01:13:40.760 --> 01:13:44.119
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know why this is, but for whatever reason,

1231
01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:49.079
<v Speaker 1>you have to go to papalencyclicals dot net for the

1232
01:13:49.239 --> 01:13:51.439
<v Speaker 1>This might be why some of these Romancalics don't even

1233
01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:56.600
<v Speaker 1>know what Vatican one says, because their own freaking Vatican

1234
01:13:56.640 --> 01:13:59.880
<v Speaker 1>website doesn't far as far as I can tell, doesn'tny

1235
01:14:00.159 --> 01:14:02.039
<v Speaker 1>have all the decrees of Vatican won on it. I

1236
01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:03.960
<v Speaker 1>mean maybe there is somewhere and I just haven't found it.

1237
01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:06.640
<v Speaker 1>But you have to go to Papal encyclicals, not dot net,

1238
01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:10.479
<v Speaker 1>which has all of the decrees the Vatican won. And

1239
01:14:10.760 --> 01:14:13.079
<v Speaker 1>every Roman Catholics should print this out and read it.

1240
01:14:13.239 --> 01:14:14.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why they're too lazy to do this.

1241
01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Remember that guy that called in was like, I'm going

1242
01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:19.000
<v Speaker 1>to read a ten page paper. I'm like, well, then

1243
01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:20.760
<v Speaker 1>don't even why are you even calling into debate If

1244
01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:23.439
<v Speaker 1>you don't have time to invest in the religion that

1245
01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:25.680
<v Speaker 1>you think is true. You can't read ten or fifteen pages,

1246
01:14:26.319 --> 01:14:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Why are you wasting our time? Get out of here.

1247
01:14:28.439 --> 01:14:35.479
<v Speaker 1>So uh, this is called ordinary magisterium, and many Roman

1248
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Catholics don't know what this is, even though countless Catholic

1249
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:43.680
<v Speaker 1>theology manuals openly write and talk about this. It's not

1250
01:14:43.760 --> 01:14:49.840
<v Speaker 1>a mystery. When Vatican One defines what is dogmatic and

1251
01:14:49.960 --> 01:14:54.279
<v Speaker 1>must be believed by everyone, does it say that you

1252
01:14:54.359 --> 01:14:57.920
<v Speaker 1>only have to believe the ex cathedra statements. It does

1253
01:14:57.960 --> 01:15:00.800
<v Speaker 1>not say that, In fact, that's false. It's actually condemned position.

1254
01:15:01.359 --> 01:15:05.119
<v Speaker 1>It explicitly says that you must believe, by divine and

1255
01:15:05.199 --> 01:15:08.359
<v Speaker 1>Catholic faith, all the things contained in the Word of God,

1256
01:15:08.680 --> 01:15:12.159
<v Speaker 1>scripture and tradition that are proposed by the Church as

1257
01:15:12.199 --> 01:15:16.479
<v Speaker 1>divinely revealed by the Solemn judgment or in her What

1258
01:15:16.520 --> 01:15:20.560
<v Speaker 1>does that say? Solemn judgment refers to what we call

1259
01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:25.319
<v Speaker 1>ex cathedral that's the extra normative things that define dogma.

1260
01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:28.600
<v Speaker 1>That is an ex cathedral statement or an ecumenical council.

1261
01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Those are the two extra normative Solemn judgment types of things.

1262
01:15:33.880 --> 01:15:38.079
<v Speaker 1>The other things that must also believed be believed that

1263
01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:41.479
<v Speaker 1>are under the patrin keroism of protection of infallibility and

1264
01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:46.800
<v Speaker 1>cannot error are what are called the ordinary and universal magisterium.

1265
01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:50.199
<v Speaker 1>Do all of you hard headed goofballs see it right there,

1266
01:15:50.359 --> 01:15:53.079
<v Speaker 1>clear as day. So what this means is that if

1267
01:15:53.079 --> 01:15:57.479
<v Speaker 1>you're a Roman Catholic, you cannot say I only have

1268
01:15:57.600 --> 01:16:00.640
<v Speaker 1>to believe what the Pope teaches ex Cathedral. Now ninety

1269
01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:04.560
<v Speaker 1>five percent of these goofballs believe that they literally believe

1270
01:16:05.680 --> 01:16:09.079
<v Speaker 1>the opposite of what Vatican one says. And it doesn't

1271
01:16:09.079 --> 01:16:11.840
<v Speaker 1>matter how many times you tell them this, and you can,

1272
01:16:12.479 --> 01:16:16.920
<v Speaker 1>you can machine gun this at them until you pass out.

1273
01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:21.079
<v Speaker 1>They don't get they cannot get this. Now, amazingly, some

1274
01:16:21.159 --> 01:16:24.199
<v Speaker 1>of them do get this. For example, believe it or not,

1275
01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:29.720
<v Speaker 1>Michael Loft Doog actually understands this. Yes, you heard me correctly.

1276
01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:37.359
<v Speaker 1>Michael Loftdog is actually correct. And when he argues against

1277
01:16:37.359 --> 01:16:42.319
<v Speaker 1>the tradcats, he actually argues correctly on the basis of

1278
01:16:42.399 --> 01:16:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Vatican One, that you do not have the right to

1279
01:16:45.720 --> 01:16:52.720
<v Speaker 1>reject the ordinary teaching of the Church. Now what is

1280
01:16:52.760 --> 01:16:58.960
<v Speaker 1>the ordinary universal magistrum? Now, remember Romancantholicism thrives on open

1281
01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:05.439
<v Speaker 1>ended ambiguit definitions, so there's never any defined statement about

1282
01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:09.279
<v Speaker 1>what all the dogmatic statements are. It's so stupid this

1283
01:17:09.359 --> 01:17:12.760
<v Speaker 1>thing is. Keep in mind, if romic Thousism is true,

1284
01:17:13.479 --> 01:17:17.560
<v Speaker 1>couldn't we at least expect a dogmatic list of the

1285
01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:22.479
<v Speaker 1>dogmatic teachings? You would think, Oh no, no, you don't get that.

1286
01:17:23.079 --> 01:17:27.760
<v Speaker 1>You get generic principles that you're supposed to figure out

1287
01:17:28.560 --> 01:17:30.960
<v Speaker 1>of out of these thousands of pages of documents. What

1288
01:17:31.000 --> 01:17:34.560
<v Speaker 1>goes into what been This is the religion that's supposed

1289
01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:37.439
<v Speaker 1>to be sold to you by these bad car salesmen

1290
01:17:37.920 --> 01:17:41.039
<v Speaker 1>as the religion that gives you certitude based on the

1291
01:17:41.079 --> 01:17:43.960
<v Speaker 1>office of the papacy. What it actually gives you is

1292
01:17:44.279 --> 01:17:48.800
<v Speaker 1>mountains of documents that you in a worse situation than

1293
01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:52.039
<v Speaker 1>a Protestant, because a Protestant only has to try to

1294
01:17:52.079 --> 01:17:56.720
<v Speaker 1>make these thousand pages make sense. No, no, you got these

1295
01:17:57.199 --> 01:18:02.239
<v Speaker 1>and the endless papal documents and concil your documents which

1296
01:18:02.319 --> 01:18:09.399
<v Speaker 1>include extraordinary and ordinary universal teaching. Now get this, It

1297
01:18:09.439 --> 01:18:13.840
<v Speaker 1>gets even sillier. So what are the ordinary universal teachings? Ah?

1298
01:18:13.880 --> 01:18:16.920
<v Speaker 1>You see, those are the get this, I kid you

1299
01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:20.640
<v Speaker 1>not those are the things that the Church has always,

1300
01:18:20.760 --> 01:18:26.279
<v Speaker 1>at all times and everywhere taught. I'm not joking. So

1301
01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:37.680
<v Speaker 1>another totally ambiguous, open ended good luck with that, thousands

1302
01:18:37.680 --> 01:18:46.119
<v Speaker 1>of thousands of pages. It would be nice if there

1303
01:18:46.159 --> 01:18:50.159
<v Speaker 1>was a list of what those things are. Now, the

1304
01:18:50.239 --> 01:18:53.319
<v Speaker 1>closest I could think of to a list would be Denzinger, right,

1305
01:18:53.720 --> 01:18:56.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Denzinger is like the closest thing to what

1306
01:18:57.119 --> 01:19:00.640
<v Speaker 1>the list of the dogmas are. But Denzinger isn't even

1307
01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:04.279
<v Speaker 1>all the dogmas. And to further expand on this point,

1308
01:19:04.359 --> 01:19:08.680
<v Speaker 1>you have to know that just because something is not

1309
01:19:09.079 --> 01:19:13.479
<v Speaker 1>let's say universal ordinary or extraordinary magisterium, right, the two

1310
01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:16.880
<v Speaker 1>things that are governed by the patrin charism and by infallibility,

1311
01:19:16.880 --> 01:19:21.960
<v Speaker 1>and that the Church cannot err in right, there's other

1312
01:19:22.079 --> 01:19:27.159
<v Speaker 1>teachings that you still have to submit to with quote docility.

1313
01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:32.960
<v Speaker 1>So for example, canon law, the pope's juridical decisions according

1314
01:19:32.960 --> 01:19:36.039
<v Speaker 1>to Vatican one. And we've covered this a million times,

1315
01:19:36.079 --> 01:19:38.960
<v Speaker 1>it's in some four places in Denzinger to tell you

1316
01:19:38.960 --> 01:19:43.079
<v Speaker 1>have to believe this. Let's say the Pope decides that

1317
01:19:43.760 --> 01:19:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Archbishop so and so is excommunicated, do you, as a

1318
01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:50.159
<v Speaker 1>Roman Catholic believe or think that you have the right

1319
01:19:50.279 --> 01:19:51.920
<v Speaker 1>to reject the Pope's excommunication.

1320
01:19:52.680 --> 01:19:53.039
<v Speaker 16>You do not.

1321
01:19:53.439 --> 01:19:56.039
<v Speaker 1>Vatican one is clear as day, and even going all

1322
01:19:56.039 --> 01:19:58.800
<v Speaker 1>the way back to Octorum feedde, you do not have

1323
01:19:58.880 --> 01:20:02.520
<v Speaker 1>the right in Roman Catholicism to judge the First See

1324
01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:07.920
<v Speaker 1>or to reject his canonical juridical decisions. And so the

1325
01:20:08.079 --> 01:20:12.479
<v Speaker 1>entire basis of the SSPX is fraudulent and schismatic. Via

1326
01:20:12.520 --> 01:20:18.239
<v Speaker 1>Vatican one, you must submit with docility, even if you

1327
01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:23.399
<v Speaker 1>think that the Pope is wrong in matters of ordinary teaching,

1328
01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:29.359
<v Speaker 1>in matters of universal ordinary teaching or extra extra ex

1329
01:20:29.399 --> 01:20:32.760
<v Speaker 1>cathedral teaching, there's no question of whether you have to submit.

1330
01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:35.760
<v Speaker 1>You absolutely have to submit. You don't. You don't even

1331
01:20:36.039 --> 01:20:41.279
<v Speaker 1>have you submit, because it's dogmatic and it is inerrant.

1332
01:20:41.880 --> 01:20:45.000
<v Speaker 1>It is the Church is indefectible, The Pope is indefectible.

1333
01:20:46.279 --> 01:20:52.439
<v Speaker 1>Now ordinary teaching, not universal ordinary ordinary teaching. That's where

1334
01:20:52.479 --> 01:20:55.760
<v Speaker 1>there can be error. But in the Roman Catholic system,

1335
01:20:55.840 --> 01:20:59.640
<v Speaker 1>do you have the right to object to and oppose

1336
01:20:59.720 --> 01:21:03.520
<v Speaker 1>the Pope Hope in ordinary teaching, which he admittedly could

1337
01:21:03.640 --> 01:21:07.760
<v Speaker 1>err in, No, you do not. Even in the ordinary teaching.

1338
01:21:08.399 --> 01:21:12.239
<v Speaker 1>The traditional Roman Catholic moral theology says very clearly, and

1339
01:21:12.279 --> 01:21:16.079
<v Speaker 1>I think canon law is that you must submit with docility,

1340
01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:21.079
<v Speaker 1>even to the matters which are not directly under the magisterium.

1341
01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:24.520
<v Speaker 1>That's the Roman Catholic system. And so every trad Cat

1342
01:21:24.680 --> 01:21:28.880
<v Speaker 1>and somebody sent me a Bishop Strickland today, one of

1343
01:21:28.920 --> 01:21:32.680
<v Speaker 1>the trad Cat popes or excuse me, bishops. He's not.

1344
01:21:32.880 --> 01:21:34.159
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you're in the no disorder, you don't

1345
01:21:34.159 --> 01:21:37.199
<v Speaker 1>even trad Cat. But I don't know if he's Strickland

1346
01:21:37.199 --> 01:21:40.640
<v Speaker 1>a Latin mass person, I don't even know. But he's

1347
01:21:41.199 --> 01:21:46.960
<v Speaker 1>praying and protesting Frank Francis and is saying that Francis

1348
01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:51.159
<v Speaker 1>is not a Catholic and is not teaching Catholic dogma. Okay,

1349
01:21:51.199 --> 01:21:55.000
<v Speaker 1>that's a direct violation of Vatican One. It's a direct

1350
01:21:55.079 --> 01:21:57.640
<v Speaker 1>violation of the canons of the Roman Catholic Church. Canon law.

1351
01:21:58.079 --> 01:22:01.039
<v Speaker 1>No one judges the first Sea. And even if you

1352
01:22:01.079 --> 01:22:05.720
<v Speaker 1>think Francis is an error, you must submit with docility.

1353
01:22:06.159 --> 01:22:08.439
<v Speaker 1>And so all of the Roman Catholics and trad Cats

1354
01:22:08.600 --> 01:22:12.039
<v Speaker 1>who are pretending that they can do all of their

1355
01:22:12.640 --> 01:22:16.560
<v Speaker 1>rebelling and all this, they're actually operating like Orthodox and

1356
01:22:16.720 --> 01:22:20.439
<v Speaker 1>or Protestants. That's the funny part, and they don't care,

1357
01:22:20.520 --> 01:22:23.319
<v Speaker 1>and they don't read Vatican one. And when they go

1358
01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:27.640
<v Speaker 1>and rea Vatican one, they then say, kid you not. Well,

1359
01:22:27.640 --> 01:22:33.560
<v Speaker 1>that's the papal reading of the papal reading a Vatican one.

1360
01:22:33.800 --> 01:22:37.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh you see, that's the ultramontanous reading a Vatican. Vatican

1361
01:22:37.600 --> 01:22:40.920
<v Speaker 1>one is an ultramontanous council. Of course there's going to

1362
01:22:40.960 --> 01:22:44.880
<v Speaker 1>be an ultramontanous reading of it. That's what it's about.

1363
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:49.399
<v Speaker 8>Well, that's the liberal reading that it could do. Vatican

1364
01:22:49.439 --> 01:22:51.840
<v Speaker 8>two is actually trad if you mix up all the

1365
01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:53.960
<v Speaker 8>words and make them have the opposite meaning that they

1366
01:22:54.000 --> 01:22:56.680
<v Speaker 8>normally have a little look at my magic work. Yay,

1367
01:22:56.920 --> 01:22:57.520
<v Speaker 8>it's trad.

1368
01:22:57.640 --> 01:23:02.159
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not trad. You'll ever get tad out of Muslims,

1369
01:23:02.239 --> 01:23:05.479
<v Speaker 1>Jews and Christians and Hindus worship the same god. That's

1370
01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:13.920
<v Speaker 1>never going to be tried, dummies. Anyway, I went down

1371
01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:17.479
<v Speaker 1>a rabbit hole, esoteric. Noan, we got hyper nome hyperborea

1372
01:23:17.479 --> 01:23:20.520
<v Speaker 1>in the house. Look, I got energy, and I'm in

1373
01:23:20.600 --> 01:23:25.680
<v Speaker 1>debate mode. And so in one and a half hour

1374
01:23:25.720 --> 01:23:28.359
<v Speaker 1>we're supposed to have Roman Catholic dude come to bate.

1375
01:23:28.479 --> 01:23:31.199
<v Speaker 1>So let's now He's a nice guy, seems very charitable,

1376
01:23:31.359 --> 01:23:34.800
<v Speaker 1>very easy to talk to. So I'm not gonna be mean.

1377
01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:38.800
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna have a great, hopefully civil conversation. In my experience,

1378
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:45.279
<v Speaker 1>everyone in the Tim Gordon's sphere is very civil. Remember

1379
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:50.399
<v Speaker 1>the football player AJ Hurley. You know, we had a

1380
01:23:50.399 --> 01:23:56.800
<v Speaker 1>two hour discussion on atomism. Great conversation, nice guy. We

1381
01:23:56.880 --> 01:24:02.279
<v Speaker 1>got we got heated, but everything was cool, right, nobody.

1382
01:24:01.800 --> 01:24:06.399
<v Speaker 9>Remember, Okay, remember when I came to your town, saying

1383
01:24:06.760 --> 01:24:10.119
<v Speaker 9>Augustine and I debated your whole city.

1384
01:24:10.239 --> 01:24:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and you won. And this they gave you the keys.

1385
01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:21.600
<v Speaker 1>They gave you the papal keys to the city. All right,

1386
01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:25.640
<v Speaker 1>let's see esoteric. Are you there, I'm man, Yeah, I'm here.

1387
01:24:26.359 --> 01:24:26.800
<v Speaker 2>I just have.

1388
01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:30.479
<v Speaker 17>I saw one of your streams earlier, and correct me

1389
01:24:30.520 --> 01:24:33.279
<v Speaker 17>if I'm wrong. You said something along the lines of

1390
01:24:33.520 --> 01:24:39.039
<v Speaker 17>the Roman Catholic Church, uh says that you, through natural

1391
01:24:39.079 --> 01:24:43.159
<v Speaker 17>theology and natural theology alone, can basically come to the

1392
01:24:43.199 --> 01:24:45.920
<v Speaker 17>whole of the Christian paradigm and theology.

1393
01:24:46.159 --> 01:24:49.560
<v Speaker 1>No, of course not. That's okay, the opposite of what

1394
01:24:49.720 --> 01:24:50.279
<v Speaker 1>I argue.

1395
01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:53.079
<v Speaker 17>No, I'm saying that like from the that's what you said.

1396
01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:56.560
<v Speaker 1>The Catholic Church they don't believe that you can never

1397
01:24:56.600 --> 01:25:00.479
<v Speaker 1>get you can never get supernatural revelation from natural from

1398
01:25:00.560 --> 01:25:04.279
<v Speaker 1>natural theology. They're two different they're two different series. Yeah

1399
01:25:04.319 --> 01:25:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I never said that.

1400
01:25:04.960 --> 01:25:06.760
<v Speaker 17>Yeah, yeah, sorry about that.

1401
01:25:06.760 --> 01:25:09.399
<v Speaker 1>Then that's right, right, So the definition of natural theology,

1402
01:25:09.479 --> 01:25:12.560
<v Speaker 1>whether it's John Paul's and cyclical Fetus at ratio or

1403
01:25:12.640 --> 01:25:18.760
<v Speaker 1>whether it's the UH. I bought the Evangelical Dictionary of

1404
01:25:18.840 --> 01:25:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Theology and William Lane Craig wrote the entry I think

1405
01:25:22.920 --> 01:25:25.640
<v Speaker 1>in there where he defines natural theology in exactly the

1406
01:25:25.680 --> 01:25:27.680
<v Speaker 1>same way that John Paul the Second does, which is

1407
01:25:27.720 --> 01:25:31.640
<v Speaker 1>that it is reasoning about God from the natural world,

1408
01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:35.520
<v Speaker 1>apart from any divine revelation. That's the definition of natural theology.

1409
01:25:35.880 --> 01:25:41.359
<v Speaker 1>So there's nothing in that that could lead you to

1410
01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:50.000
<v Speaker 1>accepting trinity or incarnation, because they're two different domains in

1411
01:25:50.079 --> 01:25:50.840
<v Speaker 1>natural theology.

1412
01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:51.720
<v Speaker 2>Right.

1413
01:25:51.800 --> 01:25:53.720
<v Speaker 17>No, I will hardly agree with that. Yeah, it was

1414
01:25:53.760 --> 01:25:55.439
<v Speaker 17>just something I misinterpreted.

1415
01:25:56.039 --> 01:25:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, my critique was that all of that's dumb, it

1416
01:25:58.520 --> 01:26:00.840
<v Speaker 1>doesn't make any sense. So if you watch the Trent

1417
01:26:00.960 --> 01:26:06.399
<v Speaker 1>Horn debate that we debate at every point, Okay, thank you, Yeah, No,

1418
01:26:06.479 --> 01:26:11.840
<v Speaker 1>it's fair question, and I'm always happy to clarify voiceless

1419
01:26:11.880 --> 01:26:28.119
<v Speaker 1>in Toronto. You got I mute?

1420
01:26:30.520 --> 01:26:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh was that director to me? Sorry, I couldn't hear anything.

1421
01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:34.680
<v Speaker 1>What's on your mind?

1422
01:26:34.720 --> 01:26:37.439
<v Speaker 14>Hey, g oh, I just heard you speaking about Hinduism.

1423
01:26:37.439 --> 01:26:38.479
<v Speaker 2>So I was born Hindu.

1424
01:26:39.039 --> 01:26:41.239
<v Speaker 18>But it's it's it's not even a religion. It's a

1425
01:26:41.319 --> 01:26:45.119
<v Speaker 18>teaching that was co opted by Brahmins uh to to

1426
01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:47.239
<v Speaker 18>just install the cast system. So a lot of people

1427
01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:50.640
<v Speaker 18>don't even know that Hinduism is not really intended to

1428
01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:53.000
<v Speaker 18>be a religion. It's just a teaching and then it became,

1429
01:26:53.079 --> 01:26:54.239
<v Speaker 18>you know, the major religion.

1430
01:26:54.439 --> 01:26:57.039
<v Speaker 1>And so are you saying that what we know of

1431
01:26:57.079 --> 01:27:02.840
<v Speaker 1>as Hinduism is more of a state controlled system. We're saying, I'm.

1432
01:27:02.680 --> 01:27:04.680
<v Speaker 18>Not sure however you want to take it. I mean,

1433
01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:08.840
<v Speaker 18>it's for example, the cow is considered like a holy animal,

1434
01:27:08.840 --> 01:27:12.880
<v Speaker 18>and most kind of orthodox Hindus.

1435
01:27:12.479 --> 01:27:15.600
<v Speaker 2>Don't eat beef. But it was just installed.

1436
01:27:15.159 --> 01:27:19.319
<v Speaker 18>As in animal into the into the scriptures to prevent

1437
01:27:19.359 --> 01:27:21.720
<v Speaker 18>it from going extinct because the population was growing at

1438
01:27:21.760 --> 01:27:23.279
<v Speaker 18>such a rate that it was better to keep it

1439
01:27:23.279 --> 01:27:25.680
<v Speaker 18>alive because of the advantages it gives what it's alive,

1440
01:27:26.159 --> 01:27:28.840
<v Speaker 18>rather than just kill it and eat it. So you know,

1441
01:27:28.880 --> 01:27:31.840
<v Speaker 18>there's many things about hindusm is taken from a book

1442
01:27:32.079 --> 01:27:34.720
<v Speaker 18>that then became something called above it Geita, which is

1443
01:27:34.760 --> 01:27:39.079
<v Speaker 18>just you know, kind of like teachings. And then there's

1444
01:27:39.079 --> 01:27:41.439
<v Speaker 18>a group called the Brahmins who installed themselves.

1445
01:27:41.159 --> 01:27:42.359
<v Speaker 2>At the top of the cast system.

1446
01:27:42.520 --> 01:27:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Kind of well, I guess what I'm saying is that

1447
01:27:44.760 --> 01:27:48.119
<v Speaker 1>are you saying that it's essentially it evolved to be

1448
01:27:48.279 --> 01:27:53.439
<v Speaker 1>calm an elitist mechanism of control by the Brahmins, is

1449
01:27:53.439 --> 01:27:54.000
<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying?

1450
01:27:55.319 --> 01:27:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Correct, Yes, sir, Yeah, so that's all I want to add.

1451
01:27:58.720 --> 01:28:01.319
<v Speaker 18>I'm more of a faist now, so I just believe

1452
01:28:01.359 --> 01:28:03.960
<v Speaker 18>in God, but not really a follow of religion. You know,

1453
01:28:04.000 --> 01:28:06.800
<v Speaker 18>I went to a Catholic boys on the boarding school

1454
01:28:07.199 --> 01:28:09.479
<v Speaker 18>when I was growing up in Zimbobwe, which was then,

1455
01:28:09.640 --> 01:28:12.000
<v Speaker 18>which was you know, a British calling.

1456
01:28:12.319 --> 01:28:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, yeah, I appreciate that. That's a good insight there.

1457
01:28:16.880 --> 01:28:20.039
<v Speaker 1>There is almost always some sort of you know, kind

1458
01:28:20.039 --> 01:28:23.800
<v Speaker 1>of an elite control mechanism going on in all religions,

1459
01:28:23.840 --> 01:28:25.960
<v Speaker 1>and I mean even in Orthodoxy. You go back to

1460
01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:29.880
<v Speaker 1>the you know, the emperors had in many cases, the

1461
01:28:30.159 --> 01:28:36.800
<v Speaker 1>evil Emperors, they had machinations and designs through heresies to

1462
01:28:36.840 --> 01:28:41.319
<v Speaker 1>control the Church. For example, you had Aryan iconoclastic emperors

1463
01:28:41.359 --> 01:28:47.920
<v Speaker 1>who if they were able to install the iconoclass doctrine

1464
01:28:49.079 --> 01:28:51.079
<v Speaker 1>one of the components of this would mean that it

1465
01:28:51.119 --> 01:28:55.039
<v Speaker 1>would also allow them to basically control the church, same

1466
01:28:55.119 --> 01:29:02.039
<v Speaker 1>with the the Aryan emperor's similar state mechanisms for controlling

1467
01:29:02.079 --> 01:29:04.920
<v Speaker 1>the church. There, Frankish Malchite five dollars I had a

1468
01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:09.560
<v Speaker 1>trinitarian question concerning the issue of Christ as God specifically

1469
01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:14.119
<v Speaker 1>got the word if the Father is ontologically greater. Well,

1470
01:29:14.199 --> 01:29:16.880
<v Speaker 1>that's the first mistake there. We don't say that the

1471
01:29:16.920 --> 01:29:21.279
<v Speaker 1>Father is ontologically prior. He is the cause, he is

1472
01:29:21.319 --> 01:29:25.439
<v Speaker 1>the fount, he is the arka. He is not ontologically greater.

1473
01:29:26.239 --> 01:29:29.960
<v Speaker 1>And that's why the son has the exact same nature

1474
01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:33.439
<v Speaker 1>as the Father, communicated to him by the Father, just

1475
01:29:33.600 --> 01:29:36.479
<v Speaker 1>like a son. If you have a king and the

1476
01:29:36.560 --> 01:29:40.079
<v Speaker 1>king has a son, the son doesn't have any greater

1477
01:29:40.199 --> 01:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>or lesser human nature than his father, the king. They

1478
01:29:43.039 --> 01:29:46.439
<v Speaker 1>have identically the same nature. But yet the king has

1479
01:29:46.479 --> 01:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>a greater role than the prince the son. And so

1480
01:29:50.800 --> 01:29:52.800
<v Speaker 1>that's the sense in which we say that the Father

1481
01:29:52.920 --> 01:29:55.560
<v Speaker 1>is quote greater, is in the sense of role, not

1482
01:29:55.720 --> 01:29:59.920
<v Speaker 1>in the sense of ontology. That's the Aryan subordinationist argument.

1483
01:30:01.000 --> 01:30:04.239
<v Speaker 1>You go on to say in your question, is the

1484
01:30:04.239 --> 01:30:06.720
<v Speaker 1>son the Father's wisdom being the word? Would this mean

1485
01:30:06.760 --> 01:30:09.600
<v Speaker 1>that the command let there be light would be the

1486
01:30:09.640 --> 01:30:13.840
<v Speaker 1>son enacting the father's will. Well, you could still believe

1487
01:30:13.920 --> 01:30:19.039
<v Speaker 1>that the son is enacting what the Father wants without

1488
01:30:20.680 --> 01:30:24.880
<v Speaker 1>there being any kind of Aryan subordinationism going on, because

1489
01:30:25.159 --> 01:30:27.760
<v Speaker 1>in the Gospels, Jesus tells us that he only does

1490
01:30:28.359 --> 01:30:30.560
<v Speaker 1>the will of the Father. So that's and he's a

1491
01:30:30.600 --> 01:30:33.920
<v Speaker 1>divine person speaking that. He's saying me that a second person,

1492
01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:37.920
<v Speaker 1>the God had divine person always only does the will

1493
01:30:37.960 --> 01:30:41.680
<v Speaker 1>of the Father. But that does not equate to any

1494
01:30:42.039 --> 01:30:47.199
<v Speaker 1>aryan Joe's witness subordinationism, because all arianism and subordinationism is

1495
01:30:47.199 --> 01:30:51.880
<v Speaker 1>built on the assumption that the Father is onto logically

1496
01:30:51.920 --> 01:30:56.520
<v Speaker 1>superior and not superior by role. But there's no reason

1497
01:30:56.520 --> 01:30:59.439
<v Speaker 1>to believe that, And in fact, the Gospels contradict that

1498
01:30:59.479 --> 01:31:02.640
<v Speaker 1>because men many times over Jesus says, everything the Father

1499
01:31:02.720 --> 01:31:05.720
<v Speaker 1>has he has, all the works the Father does, he does.

1500
01:31:06.279 --> 01:31:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Everyone should honor the son as they honor the Father. Okay,

1501
01:31:11.000 --> 01:31:14.399
<v Speaker 1>if there's a subordination, then that's all blasphemous stuff that

1502
01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:17.199
<v Speaker 1>Jesus is saying. And that's precisely what the Jews say.

1503
01:31:17.279 --> 01:31:20.439
<v Speaker 1>The Jews think he's blaspheming because there he's literally saying

1504
01:31:20.439 --> 01:31:24.520
<v Speaker 1>he's equal to the Father, big Boss. Ten dollars. Did

1505
01:31:24.560 --> 01:31:27.039
<v Speaker 1>you happen to see where Mel Gibson calls many of

1506
01:31:27.079 --> 01:31:33.000
<v Speaker 1>the current Roman Catholic bishops of Francis hirelings and then

1507
01:31:33.039 --> 01:31:36.560
<v Speaker 1>he says, who is hiring the hirings? No, but I

1508
01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:39.439
<v Speaker 1>mean Mel Gibson's actually made comments like that for twenty years.

1509
01:31:39.520 --> 01:31:42.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean going back to I don't know the exact

1510
01:31:42.960 --> 01:31:46.359
<v Speaker 1>date when Mel became a trad cat because it goes

1511
01:31:46.399 --> 01:31:49.319
<v Speaker 1>back to Hutton and I remember back when I was

1512
01:31:49.359 --> 01:31:51.720
<v Speaker 1>a trad cat, I remember actually going I actually read

1513
01:31:51.800 --> 01:31:54.119
<v Speaker 1>Hutton Gibson's stuff. He used to have a website on it.

1514
01:31:54.119 --> 01:31:56.279
<v Speaker 1>Maybe he still does, I don't know, but I remember

1515
01:31:56.319 --> 01:31:59.439
<v Speaker 1>reading Hutton Gibson's set of a Conscious Arguments back in

1516
01:31:59.479 --> 01:32:03.560
<v Speaker 1>the day. So that's that was at least two thousand

1517
01:32:03.600 --> 01:32:08.199
<v Speaker 1>and five, six seven, So we're coming up on almost

1518
01:32:08.199 --> 01:32:12.039
<v Speaker 1>twenty years of you know, Hutton Gibson having a website.

1519
01:32:13.720 --> 01:32:18.199
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's still up, but no, I

1520
01:32:18.199 --> 01:32:20.359
<v Speaker 1>mean Mel Gibson has said this kind of stuff for

1521
01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:24.760
<v Speaker 1>a long time. And if I recall, he built his

1522
01:32:24.880 --> 01:32:28.520
<v Speaker 1>own trad cat chapel I think out in California somewhere.

1523
01:32:28.720 --> 01:32:32.399
<v Speaker 1>I forget the name of it, Like, I think it's

1524
01:32:32.399 --> 01:32:37.359
<v Speaker 1>for a holy family, not the other cults online, nothing

1525
01:32:37.399 --> 01:32:40.600
<v Speaker 1>to do with the other STA cults in the world.

1526
01:32:40.600 --> 01:32:43.880
<v Speaker 1>A set of a contism. It's all very like independent like,

1527
01:32:43.920 --> 01:32:46.359
<v Speaker 1>it's all very fractured. There's no like over there's no

1528
01:32:46.479 --> 01:32:51.039
<v Speaker 1>overarching like unified communion of the set of a contests.

1529
01:32:51.119 --> 01:32:53.439
<v Speaker 1>They're all kind of doing their own thing, even if

1530
01:32:53.439 --> 01:32:57.439
<v Speaker 1>they have similar names. Let's see, I Hutton Gibson still

1531
01:32:57.479 --> 01:33:02.920
<v Speaker 1>has a set of a contass website up. Uh So,

1532
01:33:03.159 --> 01:33:04.800
<v Speaker 1>I guess he passed away. I didn't know if I

1533
01:33:04.800 --> 01:33:13.119
<v Speaker 1>didn't know he had passed away. And I'm assuming that

1534
01:33:14.119 --> 01:33:17.560
<v Speaker 1>this is the means by which Mel became a track cat.

1535
01:33:17.680 --> 01:33:37.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm just well, I mean, you can't trust googling. It

1536
01:33:37.119 --> 01:33:39.960
<v Speaker 1>basically doesn't work. You can't find anything you're looking for.

1537
01:33:40.079 --> 01:33:48.319
<v Speaker 1>But you can find actually you can find his books

1538
01:33:48.359 --> 01:33:55.239
<v Speaker 1>interesting because apparently they come up here on good Reads.

1539
01:33:58.359 --> 01:34:02.920
<v Speaker 1>So uh interested, So he looks like Hutton produced a book.

1540
01:34:03.920 --> 01:34:05.439
<v Speaker 1>It looks like a state a book. He might not

1541
01:34:05.520 --> 01:34:07.960
<v Speaker 1>have been full of nineteen eighty eight, but maybe he was.

1542
01:34:08.560 --> 01:34:12.319
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty early nineteen eighty eight, Hutton Gibson wrote a

1543
01:34:12.439 --> 01:34:15.840
<v Speaker 1>set of a conscious book. Interesting is the pope Catholic.

1544
01:34:19.640 --> 01:34:21.439
<v Speaker 1>Let's see if it's full of Saya one hundred and

1545
01:34:21.439 --> 01:34:35.560
<v Speaker 1>eighty eight pages. We need to hope that mel Gibson

1546
01:34:35.600 --> 01:34:39.159
<v Speaker 1>becomes Orthodox, because I mean, at a certain point, you know,

1547
01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:41.600
<v Speaker 1>the Saya world is just so kind of crazy. It's

1548
01:34:41.640 --> 01:34:45.800
<v Speaker 1>like it just I think it eventually becomes a very

1549
01:34:45.800 --> 01:34:50.840
<v Speaker 1>obvious dead end. You probably have to use some other

1550
01:34:50.880 --> 01:34:54.119
<v Speaker 1>search engine to find his website. If maybe if he

1551
01:34:54.159 --> 01:34:59.760
<v Speaker 1>passed away, it's no longer there. I don't know anyway,

1552
01:35:00.840 --> 01:35:08.760
<v Speaker 1>all right, we got one last person, Manuel, and then

1553
01:35:09.319 --> 01:35:12.840
<v Speaker 1>remember to come back in an hour. Hopefully we'll have

1554
01:35:12.880 --> 01:35:16.720
<v Speaker 1>a debate with our Catholic friend. We'll see what he

1555
01:35:16.760 --> 01:35:21.319
<v Speaker 1>wants to discuss. It'll be interesting because his response video

1556
01:35:21.680 --> 01:35:27.279
<v Speaker 1>was actually addressing the dogmatic teaching argument that I have

1557
01:35:27.439 --> 01:35:33.039
<v Speaker 1>about temporal supremacy of the pope, and I've not seen

1558
01:35:33.039 --> 01:35:36.760
<v Speaker 1>any Roman Catholics so far address that argument, So it'll

1559
01:35:36.760 --> 01:35:40.359
<v Speaker 1>be interesting to see. Presumably he'll be the first that

1560
01:35:40.399 --> 01:35:44.520
<v Speaker 1>I've seen addressing it. Manuel, you got an unmute Hello,

1561
01:35:44.880 --> 01:35:45.319
<v Speaker 1>what's up?

1562
01:35:46.359 --> 01:35:51.840
<v Speaker 16>Oh, hijane, I was you know, I was about to

1563
01:35:51.880 --> 01:35:56.479
<v Speaker 16>call earlier today but my mic he just did not work.

1564
01:35:56.720 --> 01:36:00.439
<v Speaker 1>So well you're here, man, what's up? Yeah?

1565
01:36:00.560 --> 01:36:01.319
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, thank you.

1566
01:36:01.520 --> 01:36:05.560
<v Speaker 16>So I was asking about I had a question because

1567
01:36:05.560 --> 01:36:10.479
<v Speaker 16>I saw a video by a guy named Planet Peterson

1568
01:36:10.640 --> 01:36:11.319
<v Speaker 16>or something like that.

1569
01:36:11.439 --> 01:36:12.840
<v Speaker 2>Right, do you know him?

1570
01:36:12.880 --> 01:36:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh, is this that atheist guy that Jim Bob's always debating.

1571
01:36:17.760 --> 01:36:19.760
<v Speaker 16>I'm not sure about Jim Bob, but yes, it.

1572
01:36:19.680 --> 01:36:22.720
<v Speaker 1>Is Jembob's I've never watched this guy, but I've seen

1573
01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:24.399
<v Speaker 1>Jim Bob kind of critique him.

1574
01:36:25.319 --> 01:36:28.920
<v Speaker 16>Okay, yeah, So I was asking about. You know, one

1575
01:36:28.920 --> 01:36:31.760
<v Speaker 16>thing that he said in one of his videos. He

1576
01:36:31.880 --> 01:36:35.319
<v Speaker 16>said he talked about, you know, presuppositions and all that,

1577
01:36:36.039 --> 01:36:39.239
<v Speaker 16>and he said something along the lines of like, well,

1578
01:36:39.319 --> 01:36:44.119
<v Speaker 16>you know, the thing with presuppositions is that you can

1579
01:36:44.239 --> 01:36:47.119
<v Speaker 16>just make it up, and anybody can make up a

1580
01:36:47.159 --> 01:36:50.840
<v Speaker 16>good I don't know, God with presuppositions or something like that.

1581
01:36:51.159 --> 01:36:54.680
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not true. It actually has to do the

1582
01:36:54.720 --> 01:37:02.159
<v Speaker 1>work of grounding the transcendal categories universals, logic, history, ethics,

1583
01:37:03.159 --> 01:37:06.439
<v Speaker 1>and so just making something up doesn't do any grounding work.

1584
01:37:07.399 --> 01:37:10.479
<v Speaker 16>Okay, So are you telling are you saying that you know,

1585
01:37:10.560 --> 01:37:14.439
<v Speaker 16>God has to, like I don't know, appear in history

1586
01:37:14.560 --> 01:37:16.640
<v Speaker 16>or interact with the world, is what you're saying.

1587
01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:19.640
<v Speaker 1>I think that would be one of the implications of

1588
01:37:19.920 --> 01:37:24.279
<v Speaker 1>a coherent worldview in theology. I wouldn't hinge everything just

1589
01:37:24.359 --> 01:37:27.439
<v Speaker 1>on saying something like God has to enact and you know,

1590
01:37:27.560 --> 01:37:32.119
<v Speaker 1>interact in history, I mean the incarnation and you know,

1591
01:37:32.319 --> 01:37:37.359
<v Speaker 1>the revelation of Christian. The Christian worldview does, though, give

1592
01:37:37.359 --> 01:37:41.000
<v Speaker 1>an account for a meaning for history. So in that

1593
01:37:41.239 --> 01:37:46.039
<v Speaker 1>broader sense of you know, making history and all the

1594
01:37:46.079 --> 01:37:49.640
<v Speaker 1>events within history meaningful, with the doctrine of divine providence

1595
01:37:49.760 --> 01:37:54.039
<v Speaker 1>and the doctrine of you know, t lost teleology all

1596
01:37:54.119 --> 01:37:57.720
<v Speaker 1>of that, that would be the route of argument I

1597
01:37:57.720 --> 01:37:58.359
<v Speaker 1>would make there.

1598
01:37:59.680 --> 01:38:03.760
<v Speaker 16>Okay, Okay, And I guess another final question. I have

1599
01:38:04.079 --> 01:38:06.600
<v Speaker 16>a father, you know, my dad, you.

1600
01:38:06.560 --> 01:38:08.359
<v Speaker 1>Know, he's I think we all do. I think we

1601
01:38:08.399 --> 01:38:08.680
<v Speaker 1>all do.

1602
01:38:09.640 --> 01:38:10.119
<v Speaker 4>Okay.

1603
01:38:11.000 --> 01:38:15.439
<v Speaker 16>He's an old Mexican dude, Catholic, and I kind of,

1604
01:38:16.279 --> 01:38:20.000
<v Speaker 16>you know, try to call him to Orthodox scene. He

1605
01:38:20.199 --> 01:38:22.720
<v Speaker 16>was like, I don't know, maybe if you do me

1606
01:38:22.920 --> 01:38:28.119
<v Speaker 16>like present me arguments is there like any videos or

1607
01:38:28.159 --> 01:38:31.199
<v Speaker 16>any quick argument that you can give me to my

1608
01:38:31.319 --> 01:38:36.399
<v Speaker 16>refuge Roman Catholicism or show clear contradiction something like that.

1609
01:38:38.479 --> 01:38:40.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, if you go to my community tab.

1610
01:38:41.960 --> 01:38:47.279
<v Speaker 1>I recently re shared the video where I just kind

1611
01:38:47.319 --> 01:38:52.279
<v Speaker 1>of collected together what I toital. It's called top five

1612
01:38:52.399 --> 01:38:56.680
<v Speaker 1>simple arguments against papal Infallibility. I have another, you know,

1613
01:38:56.760 --> 01:38:59.399
<v Speaker 1>top ten reasons I'm not Roman Catholic video from a

1614
01:38:59.399 --> 01:39:03.760
<v Speaker 1>few years ago. Oh, this this one dogmatic contradiction Androme

1615
01:39:03.840 --> 01:39:07.359
<v Speaker 1>Catholicism video. So those are all kind of intended to

1616
01:39:07.399 --> 01:39:12.920
<v Speaker 1>be accessible, you know, pop level videos.

1617
01:39:13.359 --> 01:39:18.920
<v Speaker 16>Okay, Oh, I guess another question that has been troubling me,

1618
01:39:18.960 --> 01:39:21.159
<v Speaker 16>and I'm gonna be done after this.

1619
01:39:22.119 --> 01:39:22.479
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

1620
01:39:22.520 --> 01:39:26.720
<v Speaker 16>It's it's a question about, uh, you know, about Jesus

1621
01:39:26.720 --> 01:39:28.600
<v Speaker 16>when he goes up to heaven.

1622
01:39:29.279 --> 01:39:33.239
<v Speaker 2>Right, So can we agree that you.

1623
01:39:33.199 --> 01:39:35.760
<v Speaker 16>Know, you know, God the Son is eternal and that

1624
01:39:36.479 --> 01:39:41.159
<v Speaker 16>he enters creation right as a human being. Okay, Uh,

1625
01:39:41.199 --> 01:39:45.880
<v Speaker 16>you know, and I don't know how if I'm whatever right,

1626
01:39:45.960 --> 01:39:49.119
<v Speaker 16>But the thing that troubles me is that how can

1627
01:39:49.319 --> 01:39:53.079
<v Speaker 16>God the Son be you know, eternally in heaven or whatever,

1628
01:39:53.680 --> 01:39:57.199
<v Speaker 16>but then comes down, you know, to earth. And then

1629
01:39:57.319 --> 01:40:01.560
<v Speaker 16>comes back as you know, default.

1630
01:40:01.159 --> 01:40:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's it's not primarily it's not primarily like because

1631
01:40:07.119 --> 01:40:10.960
<v Speaker 1>he's omniscient, excuse me, omnipresent, right, so he possesses all

1632
01:40:10.960 --> 01:40:14.359
<v Speaker 1>the omnies. If you read John one, John says that,

1633
01:40:14.880 --> 01:40:17.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, we beheld the Son of God in the flesh,

1634
01:40:18.239 --> 01:40:21.079
<v Speaker 1>who was always in the bosom of the Father. So

1635
01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:24.399
<v Speaker 1>he never left the bosom of the Father even while

1636
01:40:24.439 --> 01:40:27.880
<v Speaker 1>he was on earth, because even though as humans we

1637
01:40:27.960 --> 01:40:32.359
<v Speaker 1>think about it as spatial location, via his divine omnipresence,

1638
01:40:32.399 --> 01:40:35.520
<v Speaker 1>he was always eternally with the Father. He's everywhere.

1639
01:40:36.560 --> 01:40:39.600
<v Speaker 16>Oh okay, all right, okay, that makes sense because I

1640
01:40:39.640 --> 01:40:42.640
<v Speaker 16>was having, you know, a little bit, a tiny bit

1641
01:40:42.680 --> 01:40:45.000
<v Speaker 16>of an existential crisis because I was like, how does

1642
01:40:45.000 --> 01:40:48.000
<v Speaker 16>it make sense that you know he's he's eternally.

1643
01:40:48.680 --> 01:40:50.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's a both, it's a both. And so in

1644
01:40:50.560 --> 01:40:54.680
<v Speaker 1>other words, we understand that because he's a divine person,

1645
01:40:54.720 --> 01:40:58.039
<v Speaker 1>he possesses the omnies and therefore he's omnipresent. But we

1646
01:40:58.119 --> 01:41:01.119
<v Speaker 1>also recognize that via Philip Beans two, which is the

1647
01:41:01.199 --> 01:41:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Kenosis text, he was able to enter into a motive

1648
01:41:04.960 --> 01:41:07.520
<v Speaker 1>being which the Father and the Spirit did not In

1649
01:41:07.560 --> 01:41:12.319
<v Speaker 1>other words, becoming incarnate, right, which is essentially the mystery

1650
01:41:12.319 --> 01:41:14.359
<v Speaker 1>of the incarnation. This is what John presents it as,

1651
01:41:14.359 --> 01:41:17.000
<v Speaker 1>and the Orthodox Church is always upheld it as as

1652
01:41:17.039 --> 01:41:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Saint Cyril says, the mystery that God could be born

1653
01:41:20.680 --> 01:41:24.359
<v Speaker 1>of a virgin. It's a mystery. So exactly how he

1654
01:41:24.399 --> 01:41:26.399
<v Speaker 1>does that, we don't know the mechanics of that. It's

1655
01:41:26.439 --> 01:41:29.840
<v Speaker 1>above us. But it is revealed to us that the

1656
01:41:29.880 --> 01:41:32.119
<v Speaker 1>second person that God had entered into the motive being

1657
01:41:32.199 --> 01:41:35.279
<v Speaker 1>of being incarnate as a human being and ascended into

1658
01:41:35.960 --> 01:41:38.600
<v Speaker 1>the third heavens to be at the right hand of

1659
01:41:38.600 --> 01:41:41.600
<v Speaker 1>the Father. So it's a both then and on either or.

1660
01:41:43.159 --> 01:41:46.239
<v Speaker 1>That's why we say he underwent no change when he

1661
01:41:46.319 --> 01:41:49.920
<v Speaker 1>became incarnate. He never lost his divinity or ceased to

1662
01:41:49.960 --> 01:41:53.680
<v Speaker 1>be divine, or transformed into a man or transformed into

1663
01:41:53.720 --> 01:41:56.800
<v Speaker 1>a third thing like of an office site say, he

1664
01:41:56.920 --> 01:42:00.319
<v Speaker 1>always instill remains the second person of the God had

1665
01:42:00.680 --> 01:42:03.359
<v Speaker 1>the difference being that he is now existing in a

1666
01:42:03.439 --> 01:42:07.560
<v Speaker 1>new mode of being as man, as the God Man.

1667
01:42:09.000 --> 01:42:13.720
<v Speaker 16>Okay, okay, yeah, that makes more sense. Anyways, I'll have

1668
01:42:13.800 --> 01:42:14.079
<v Speaker 16>to go.

1669
01:42:14.399 --> 01:42:15.039
<v Speaker 9>Thank you, Jy.

1670
01:42:16.039 --> 01:42:16.960
<v Speaker 2>I love your videos.

1671
01:42:17.760 --> 01:42:20.760
<v Speaker 1>You do appreciate that. And by the way, Also, another

1672
01:42:20.760 --> 01:42:24.319
<v Speaker 1>good video that might be accessible is the video I

1673
01:42:24.319 --> 01:42:26.920
<v Speaker 1>made a month ago called the Pope says All Religions

1674
01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:31.199
<v Speaker 1>lead to God. That one's a good yeah, because you know,

1675
01:42:31.199 --> 01:42:34.800
<v Speaker 1>it's just kind of presenting kind of basic level, you know, contradictions.

1676
01:42:36.359 --> 01:42:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Wellington will go to the last one because I'm starting

1677
01:42:39.720 --> 01:42:40.960
<v Speaker 1>to get a little bit of a headache and I

1678
01:42:41.000 --> 01:42:44.159
<v Speaker 1>do want to have energy for our Catholic friend tonight

1679
01:42:44.239 --> 01:42:46.840
<v Speaker 1>if he can make it. Now, he's not guaranteed that

1680
01:42:46.880 --> 01:42:49.800
<v Speaker 1>I'll be here at nine, he thinks he can. Maybe

1681
01:42:49.840 --> 01:42:51.680
<v Speaker 1>I should check my inbox to see if he's given

1682
01:42:51.680 --> 01:42:53.680
<v Speaker 1>me any updates, so I'll see what he says. Just

1683
01:42:53.680 --> 01:43:00.439
<v Speaker 1>one second, Bro, I can't hear you? Man? Is closed

1684
01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:03.680
<v Speaker 1>because no, I can't hear you. I mean I can

1685
01:43:03.720 --> 01:43:07.079
<v Speaker 1>barely hear you talking. Can you tuk the volume up?

1686
01:43:07.680 --> 01:43:08.399
<v Speaker 1>It's all the way up?

1687
01:43:08.399 --> 01:43:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Man?

1688
01:43:09.680 --> 01:43:09.840
<v Speaker 7>Oh?

1689
01:43:10.840 --> 01:43:13.359
<v Speaker 1>Is there any way you can hear because I can barely?

1690
01:43:13.399 --> 01:43:15.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean, what what? What's you have a question? Or

1691
01:43:15.039 --> 01:43:15.399
<v Speaker 1>what's up?

1692
01:43:15.760 --> 01:43:16.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1693
01:43:16.079 --> 01:43:18.960
<v Speaker 10>My question is is not even debate for?

1694
01:43:19.239 --> 01:43:24.199
<v Speaker 7>But like, so you don't know Buddhism, right, I.

1695
01:43:24.159 --> 01:43:26.399
<v Speaker 1>Know a little bit about Buddhism. I'm not extensively right

1696
01:43:26.439 --> 01:43:27.520
<v Speaker 1>in Buddhism.

1697
01:43:27.680 --> 01:43:29.399
<v Speaker 3>I was I was kind of thinking about this.

1698
01:43:32.079 --> 01:43:33.600
<v Speaker 1>I can't hear you, man, I'm sorry. I'm not trying

1699
01:43:33.600 --> 01:43:35.239
<v Speaker 1>to be rude to you, but I can't hear you.

1700
01:43:35.239 --> 01:43:42.119
<v Speaker 1>Maybe uh like type your question or something Frankish Melchite

1701
01:43:42.720 --> 01:43:43.880
<v Speaker 1>will go to you last.

1702
01:43:48.800 --> 01:43:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Hello, yo, Hey.

1703
01:43:52.079 --> 01:43:54.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I was wondering if I could briefly elaborate on

1704
01:43:54.680 --> 01:43:56.640
<v Speaker 4>the question I super chatowy.

1705
01:43:56.640 --> 01:43:58.399
<v Speaker 1>The subordination question.

1706
01:43:59.520 --> 01:44:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, because I'm.

1707
01:44:00.640 --> 01:44:04.479
<v Speaker 4>Trying to in my catechises. I'm trying to better understand

1708
01:44:05.479 --> 01:44:09.680
<v Speaker 4>monarchy and trinitarianism, and there's kind of a question I

1709
01:44:09.760 --> 01:44:15.199
<v Speaker 4>ran into when I was seeing the Father's ontologically greater.

1710
01:44:15.800 --> 01:44:19.239
<v Speaker 4>The reason why I termed it that way is because

1711
01:44:19.600 --> 01:44:27.640
<v Speaker 4>I get concerned with ascribing time, to say, the unbegotteness

1712
01:44:27.640 --> 01:44:29.840
<v Speaker 4>of the Father and the begotteness of the son, And

1713
01:44:29.880 --> 01:44:31.960
<v Speaker 4>this kind of goes into the second part of my question.

1714
01:44:32.079 --> 01:44:35.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's that was the Aryan argument against Athanasius, right,

1715
01:44:35.279 --> 01:44:38.920
<v Speaker 1>So when Athanasians talked about the father being the cause

1716
01:44:38.960 --> 01:44:41.720
<v Speaker 1>of the son, the Arians would argue that, well, cause

1717
01:44:41.720 --> 01:44:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and effect is a temporal thing, so that necessarily means

1718
01:44:45.039 --> 01:44:49.199
<v Speaker 1>that the son is generated in some temporal sense and

1719
01:44:49.319 --> 01:44:52.359
<v Speaker 1>Athanasians says, it's just an analogy. It doesn't mean it's

1720
01:44:52.359 --> 01:44:54.800
<v Speaker 1>an eternal causing. It's not a temporal causing.

1721
01:44:56.520 --> 01:44:59.000
<v Speaker 4>I see, I say, okay, And that kind of leads

1722
01:44:59.000 --> 01:45:01.960
<v Speaker 4>into the second part of my question, which I remember

1723
01:45:02.000 --> 01:45:05.119
<v Speaker 4>when I was Roman Catholic, I had an Augustinian view

1724
01:45:05.159 --> 01:45:08.359
<v Speaker 4>on the Trinity, right, and I tried at all times

1725
01:45:08.399 --> 01:45:11.520
<v Speaker 4>to enforce that coequalities.

1726
01:45:11.960 --> 01:45:14.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's called it. It's called it, a qualitarian view

1727
01:45:14.600 --> 01:45:15.079
<v Speaker 1>of the Trinity.

1728
01:45:15.119 --> 01:45:19.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, focus on the divine assets as a personhood

1729
01:45:19.199 --> 01:45:21.600
<v Speaker 4>and such a head, things like that.

1730
01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:23.079
<v Speaker 1>I remember vividly.

1731
01:45:23.159 --> 01:45:27.800
<v Speaker 4>I used to tell people to compensate this, specifically witnesses.

1732
01:45:28.720 --> 01:45:33.680
<v Speaker 4>I said, the Son came into being when the Father said,

1733
01:45:33.760 --> 01:45:36.600
<v Speaker 4>let there be light, because that was the first words.

1734
01:45:37.119 --> 01:45:40.239
<v Speaker 4>But I see now that that's been very delicious.

1735
01:45:40.359 --> 01:45:42.119
<v Speaker 1>No, that would be that would be an Arian argument.

1736
01:45:44.600 --> 01:45:46.880
<v Speaker 4>Oh really, So there wasn't even like the area state

1737
01:45:46.920 --> 01:45:49.680
<v Speaker 4>even believe there was a stasis, you know, with that

1738
01:45:49.680 --> 01:45:52.800
<v Speaker 4>the Son was being created before he even said the

1739
01:45:52.800 --> 01:45:54.720
<v Speaker 4>words let there be like by the father's.

1740
01:45:54.680 --> 01:45:57.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, they would just argue that the first work of

1741
01:45:57.560 --> 01:45:59.880
<v Speaker 1>the Father was the creation of the son, and the

1742
01:46:00.279 --> 01:46:04.560
<v Speaker 1>is kind of like this demi God, I see.

1743
01:46:04.279 --> 01:46:07.600
<v Speaker 4>I see, so would be accurate to say that it

1744
01:46:07.680 --> 01:46:10.199
<v Speaker 4>was in fact at the Sun that said let there

1745
01:46:10.239 --> 01:46:10.600
<v Speaker 4>be lies.

1746
01:46:12.640 --> 01:46:16.079
<v Speaker 1>I think the Orthodox view of the fathers is that

1747
01:46:16.279 --> 01:46:21.439
<v Speaker 1>the Trinity each has a unique each person in the

1748
01:46:21.439 --> 01:46:25.079
<v Speaker 1>triad has a unique role in the creation of the world,

1749
01:46:25.119 --> 01:46:27.720
<v Speaker 1>and so Basil's dictum of from the Father, through the

1750
01:46:27.720 --> 01:46:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Son and in the Spirit would apply essentially to all

1751
01:46:30.640 --> 01:46:32.439
<v Speaker 1>of the actions of God. So, in other words, the

1752
01:46:32.479 --> 01:46:36.239
<v Speaker 1>creation of the world also happens from the Father, through

1753
01:46:36.239 --> 01:46:40.119
<v Speaker 1>the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. So usually they

1754
01:46:40.119 --> 01:46:45.039
<v Speaker 1>exegete passages like that, as the Father speaking the eternal

1755
01:46:45.239 --> 01:46:49.359
<v Speaker 1>word of the Logos, and as Hebrews one and Colossian

1756
01:46:49.439 --> 01:46:53.119
<v Speaker 1>says the world came to be from the Father through

1757
01:46:53.359 --> 01:46:54.319
<v Speaker 1>the Logos.

1758
01:46:57.119 --> 01:46:57.520
<v Speaker 2>I see.

1759
01:46:58.159 --> 01:47:00.279
<v Speaker 4>A final final question, who would you say? It's just

1760
01:47:00.359 --> 01:47:03.840
<v Speaker 4>a chearis of otherwise would be would be the best introduction,

1761
01:47:03.960 --> 01:47:07.279
<v Speaker 4>you would say to grasp the monarchy Internitians.

1762
01:47:06.880 --> 01:47:09.800
<v Speaker 1>The Cappadocians by far, I would say, go watch doctor

1763
01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:13.279
<v Speaker 1>bo Branson's lectures at If you go to his website

1764
01:47:13.560 --> 01:47:16.079
<v Speaker 1>doctor bo Branson or bo branson dot com, you'll see

1765
01:47:16.119 --> 01:47:18.840
<v Speaker 1>there's a section called media appearances, and if you click

1766
01:47:18.880 --> 01:47:22.840
<v Speaker 1>media appearances. There's a five part lecture series on the

1767
01:47:23.239 --> 01:47:26.840
<v Speaker 1>monarchia of the Trinity, and most of that is literally

1768
01:47:26.840 --> 01:47:29.399
<v Speaker 1>directly from the Cappa Docians. If you're looking for specific

1769
01:47:29.439 --> 01:47:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Cappadocian passages, you could read Basil in the Holy Spirit.

1770
01:47:33.079 --> 01:47:36.079
<v Speaker 1>You could read the five theological Orations of Gregory nazian Zeus,

1771
01:47:37.039 --> 01:47:41.359
<v Speaker 1>and you could read Basils against Unomius, and you'll you'll

1772
01:47:41.399 --> 01:47:46.920
<v Speaker 1>notice a pretty consistent uh, you know, theology of the monarchia.

1773
01:47:46.960 --> 01:47:51.880
<v Speaker 1>In fact, I think it's Oration twenty nine where Gregory

1774
01:47:51.960 --> 01:47:57.039
<v Speaker 1>Nazianzews says, you know, we don't believe in uh Sabellius

1775
01:47:57.159 --> 01:47:59.960
<v Speaker 1>or the most he says. He says, we worship the monarchy,

1776
01:48:00.640 --> 01:48:03.840
<v Speaker 1>namely the beginning point of God, the Father. You know,

1777
01:48:03.920 --> 01:48:07.239
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty sure it's Oration twenty nine. That's basically all

1778
01:48:07.279 --> 01:48:09.960
<v Speaker 1>about monarchical trinitarianism.

1779
01:48:12.600 --> 01:48:16.800
<v Speaker 4>Okay, Uh, please pray for my christ nation.

1780
01:48:16.960 --> 01:48:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm glad to hear you.

1781
01:48:19.039 --> 01:48:19.199
<v Speaker 2>Now.

1782
01:48:19.239 --> 01:48:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Were you a Roman Catholic recently or has this been

1783
01:48:22.079 --> 01:48:25.000
<v Speaker 1>a longer process for you or what's happened?

1784
01:48:26.199 --> 01:48:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1785
01:48:26.560 --> 01:48:29.439
<v Speaker 4>So I was raised a Southern Baptist, I grew up,

1786
01:48:29.760 --> 01:48:31.520
<v Speaker 4>I grew up in East Tennessee.

1787
01:48:31.159 --> 01:48:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Near I'm a Southern I'm a Southern Baptist Tennessee boy too.

1788
01:48:35.680 --> 01:48:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Man, Yeah, I agree.

1789
01:48:37.560 --> 01:48:39.640
<v Speaker 4>I grew up Do you know Crossville.

1790
01:48:41.600 --> 01:48:43.279
<v Speaker 1>It's a town in East Tennessee.

1791
01:48:42.960 --> 01:48:44.479
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yep, yep.

1792
01:48:44.520 --> 01:48:47.800
<v Speaker 4>I grew up there, and I was I was raised

1793
01:48:48.079 --> 01:48:51.039
<v Speaker 4>Southern Baptists. Became an atheist all throughout my teenage hoods

1794
01:48:51.399 --> 01:48:54.920
<v Speaker 4>teenage hood, I found Roman Catholicism, my ottinion a mass

1795
01:48:54.920 --> 01:48:57.560
<v Speaker 4>at Saint Thomas Aquinas, so I became a Thomas, I

1796
01:48:57.720 --> 01:49:01.479
<v Speaker 4>was baptized, and I started my inquiry to wholly orthodoxy

1797
01:49:02.359 --> 01:49:07.319
<v Speaker 4>officially last December, a little after Christmas. Oh, it's it's

1798
01:49:07.359 --> 01:49:09.560
<v Speaker 4>the fullness of the Catholic it is the fullness of.

1799
01:49:09.560 --> 01:49:10.279
<v Speaker 2>The Catholic Church.

1800
01:49:10.359 --> 01:49:11.239
<v Speaker 5>So I'm tired of.

1801
01:49:11.239 --> 01:49:15.720
<v Speaker 4>Pretending, you know, in fictitious institute, in a fictitious institution

1802
01:49:15.920 --> 01:49:18.039
<v Speaker 4>that made it sells something that they work, you know,

1803
01:49:18.520 --> 01:49:19.399
<v Speaker 4>and their Unitarians.

1804
01:49:19.399 --> 01:49:21.960
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I would tell you, do you have the uh,

1805
01:49:22.199 --> 01:49:25.199
<v Speaker 1>the Palmazansky book. It's it's pretty good. I overlooked this

1806
01:49:25.279 --> 01:49:28.000
<v Speaker 1>book for many years, and when I finally got it

1807
01:49:28.039 --> 01:49:32.239
<v Speaker 1>back around to reading it and looking at it. Orthodox

1808
01:49:32.279 --> 01:49:34.399
<v Speaker 1>Dogmatics by Pomazansky is really good.

1809
01:49:36.159 --> 01:49:39.119
<v Speaker 4>Okay, absolutely, yeah, have a have the most last day, Jay,

1810
01:49:39.239 --> 01:49:40.279
<v Speaker 4>enjoy your today.

1811
01:49:40.359 --> 01:49:43.479
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much, absolutely, thank you great questions. Appreciate

1812
01:49:43.520 --> 01:49:47.920
<v Speaker 1>that from the Frankish Melkite. I don't see any more

1813
01:49:48.520 --> 01:49:54.239
<v Speaker 1>people in line that haven't already come on, and I

1814
01:49:54.319 --> 01:49:57.319
<v Speaker 1>got to save some energy for our Catholic. But let's

1815
01:49:57.319 --> 01:50:04.600
<v Speaker 1>see what his name is. His name is Chris, Chris Plants,

1816
01:50:05.800 --> 01:50:08.079
<v Speaker 1>and so I just hit him up and I said, hey,

1817
01:50:08.119 --> 01:50:11.159
<v Speaker 1>do you still want to go for tonight? And he

1818
01:50:11.199 --> 01:50:15.039
<v Speaker 1>hasn't replied yet, but you know, if we're going to

1819
01:50:15.119 --> 01:50:17.359
<v Speaker 1>do it, we'll be back here in one hour and

1820
01:50:17.399 --> 01:50:20.560
<v Speaker 1>we'll have a friendly conversation with our Catholic buddy over here,

1821
01:50:21.000 --> 01:50:28.159
<v Speaker 1>Chris Plants Plants and otherwise, everybody have a good night.

1822
01:50:28.199 --> 01:50:30.159
<v Speaker 1>How do you call in? You call in through the

1823
01:50:34.239 --> 01:50:37.520
<v Speaker 1>oh I already removed the link. I removed it because

1824
01:50:37.520 --> 01:50:39.199
<v Speaker 1>we're about to end it. So you call in the

1825
01:50:39.239 --> 01:50:41.279
<v Speaker 1>next time. We do this all the time. Anyway, everybody,

1826
01:50:41.319 --> 01:50:42.560
<v Speaker 1>have a good night. I'll see here in an hour

1827
01:50:42.600 --> 01:50:42.960
<v Speaker 1>maybe
