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Speaker 1: The FTX collapse, the Voyager collapse, the Celsius collapse, and

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this allowed the normies to say bitcoin, crypto dead. That

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is no longer the case. We're back at post halving

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precisely on time, almost on time, right, one hundred k bitcoin,

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So we're only I don't know what it is. I

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haven't looked at it in a while, but we were

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in the nineties of this morning, so we're only about

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ten percent eight percent away from one hundred k bitcoin,

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which will put it where we expected it to be

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via the Plan B stock to flow chart, and Plan

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B has in his model what year is this around

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twenty twenty six, And again this could be a little late, right,

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it could be over here twenty twenty seven. One million

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dollar big one. I absolutely believe we're gonna have one

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million dollar bigcoin. I believe we're gonna have one million

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dollar bitcoin. When we had three thousand dollars bitcoin. That's

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when I first figured out what this was. And the

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point I'm making here with all this is it's not

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about when's the right time. It's if you think long term,

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if there's million dollar bitcoin in twenty twenty seven, you

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will wish you were buying ninety thousand dollars bitcoin. Do

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you see what I'm saying? And when there's one hundred thousand,

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when there's million dollar bitcoin, there will no longer be

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one one hundred thousand dollars bitcoin. I mean, when bitcoin

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gets to a million, the crash will be to like

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three or four hundred thousand whatever I'm most likely and

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this isn't perfect, but whatever the cycle top is this cycle,

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which could be two fifty three hundred. If we have

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crazy balls banana zone, we could have three hundred thousand

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dollars bitcoin buy May June July. That will probably be

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the cycle top, right. And then if we have a

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crash down to worst case scenario sixty seventy eighty thousand

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by the time we get to one million dollar bitcoin

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in twenty twenty six seven, that means the crash will

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be the previous cycle top to fifty three hundred. So

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there you go. So what should that What that should

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tell you is DCA if you're not a big level

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investor with a lot of money and you want to

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do big things or whatever, like if you're a working

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class person, what I would do. I'm not telling I

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can't tell you what to do. But what I would

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do is I would DCA and I would make BTC

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my savings account. That's what I would do. I would

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not put my savings account in dollars, but I can't

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tell you. If you want to do that, that's up

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to you. Some people think gold's a safer If you

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want to do that, that's up to you. However, if

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you chose gold throughout this time frame, you made a

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dumb decision. I mean, you missed out on I mean

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the last ten years of your savings in gold versus

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the last ten years of your saving in bitcoin. I mean,

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come on, we've shown this chart many times. Do you

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want like a two x or do you want like

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one hundred x? Okay, it's not rocket scienceer. And that

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goes into why bitcoin as far as superior to gold?

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And I played many videos. I think the best video

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proving that bitcoin is superior to gold is the Mark

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Moss video. What did he title that as?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: He actually shows you with a lot of mathematics. I

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think it's the video already says how do we get

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to a million dollar bitcoin or something like that? Let's see,

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it's not this, it's from like I think it's this one.

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How math shocking math to how bitcoin could reach forty

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three million. Now he's saying forty three million by like,

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you know, twenty forty, right, he's talking about way down

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the line if we have global adoption. For those that

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don't know, Bitcoin just flips silver. Silver's market cap was

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just surpassed by Bitcoin's market cap. And as Max Kaiser

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said on Alex yesterday, the next logical step bitcoin will

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flip the market cap of gold. Now people laughed and

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said it would never flip silver. It just did. How

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do we get to flipping gold? Flipping gold is leads

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us to a nine hundred k bitcoin, So gold like

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seventeen trillion. If bitcoin flips gold, that means each bitcoin

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is literally nine hundred k. So we're almost at a

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million dollars, so basically a million dollar bitcoin when we

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flipped gold. And I'm pretty sure this is the video

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where Mark Moss explains how you get to that level

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of flipping gold. Yes, I think this is it your

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gold here he's somewhat gold standard, yes, And this is

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where he explains exactly and precisely why bitcoin is superior

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even to gold. And I hate I'm not trying to

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hurt gold bugs feelings in the chat, and a lot

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of people love gold. Let me tell you, I'll I'll

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give you an example though. In twenty nineteen and twenty nine,

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I didn't have like a huge amount of goal. I

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think I had about thirteen thousand dollars in gold, like

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actual physical gold, right, So I had a nice little

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pile of gold and I sold all of that in

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twenty nineteen and put it on into bitcoin because I

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was convinced at that time as well, this is this

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and I don't remember what what bitcoin is that I

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I might have gotten one bitcoin out of that, don't remember,

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but like I was convinced even then. Oh wait a minute,

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this is this is a period waste of periit to

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gold gold gold is like, we're not going back to conquistador. Okay,

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We're not gonna be a Viles and Magellan floating around

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on ships with you know, giant treasure boxes full of

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gold toaballoons and Spanish medallions or whatever. Okay, that's just

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not we don't We live in the digital world, people,

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and so doesn't it make sense of have a digital money? Well,

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of course it was anyway, Uh, if you get me

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talking on this I'll ramble forever. So I'm not gonna

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keep going on this topic. I got I gotta get

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to get some coffee, and we got we gotta get

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our Mormon bro in Here, Nick sends another amazing wow,

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one hundred dollars super chat. I have enough BTC. I

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don't rely on super chats to a living stick to

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the topic, bro, I'm gonna talk about whatever I want

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to in any video. So again, uh, your passive aggressive

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of sending me money but then dissing me kind of

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a weird flex here. So I'm glad that you have BTC,

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But if you're really into BTC, you would know that

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all BTC people want to evangelize BTC because we believe

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it's ethical money. We believe it's the future of you know,

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fair and balance financing such that the government can't steal

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from you. And so I will always talk about bitcoin

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on my streams, and I appreciate you donating, But like,

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if you want to preach at me, you can just

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keep your money, man, Nick, fifty dollars, You're bitcoin analysis

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is so low tier? Why are you giving me money

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to tell me that my should is low tier? Why

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don't you play a bit Boy video for well, Bitboy

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was a scammer who pushed all kinds of scam coins,

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so why would my coin analysis be at the level

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of bit Boy. By the way, I'm all refund your

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superchats so you don't need to keep sending me super chats,

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and I don't care how much money you want to

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flash at me. Let's just go to streamline. I'm want

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to block you and refund your money because I don't

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like your attitude. Let's see, let's go to tipping tip

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history and I am gonna refund his money. So let's see,

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00:08:17,519 --> 00:08:23,439
let's hit refund refunded that one, yes, refund the second

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00:08:23,439 --> 00:08:31,959
one yes, and hit block Yes. Take your shitty attitude elsewhere.

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All right, Uh, we have a message from our sponsor.

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which will get your mind going and pump you up

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to the max. Chad Mode is made in America with

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people talking about info wars. No, bitcoin is not unregulated.

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00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,759
Fiat bitcoin is the opposite of fiat. I mean there

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is a technically speaking, there is a quote fiat element

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in the issuance of bitcoin in terms of the halving,

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but it is not fiat because it is capped at

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twenty one million. Open up stream yard. I don't have

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stream yard, dummy, Just why are you spamming the chat?

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I've never used stream lard Yard if you want to

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call in to debate, you call in here right here

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at the status or excuse me, the X link so

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you can call in there on X and I recommend

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you check out the ton Kettlee It's my favorite, again

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proven to boost test austerone. I think Chalk said that

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there's going to be some Friday sales, so we're actually

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going to have some Friday sales elements to push. If

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you want to keep paying attention, there might be some

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good discounts coming up Friday, but as for right now,

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utilize those promo codes to get access to four percent

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off that performance stack. You can also utilize the Male

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Vitality Stack there. It's a little bit less the maximum

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Performance Stack, which is you know, two chunks of that

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Chad mood stuff is crazy. It's really strong, so be careful.

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And then for the ladies too, we have ten percent

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of this audience is ladies dudes, which is fine. I'm

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okay with all of the dude bros. But for that

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ten percent of ladies, there is also the female Vitality

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Stack as well. If you are into health fitness and

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utilizing products that will accompany your GEM attendance, your workout attendance,

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00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:24,600
your healthy diet. So to the Bajete dude that was

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going crazy in the chat, you're welcome to come and debate.

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I don't know what you're telling me to open up

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stream yards. I don't use string yards. Okay, Ben, let's

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go to Ben. What's up man? I did a whole

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video called election Predictions. What do you mean you can't

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find it? It's literally right there on the channel, Ben,

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what's up making I'm mute?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Hey, hey nothing?

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Speaker 1: How are you good? What's on your mind?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 5: I just saw you included Mormon in the title.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to.

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Speaker 6: Talk to you about that.

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Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, we had a Mormon guy come in about

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the first hour, but that didn't go so well. So

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you're welcome to make any arguments or haven't. If you

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have any questions or anything you want to present, you're

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welcome to it.

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Speaker 5: Sure.

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Speaker 2: So first off, you're.

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Speaker 1: Are you like any particular We're Orthodox or Orthodox Christianity,

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so like.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So I I served an LDS.

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Speaker 1: Mission in Russia.

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Speaker 5: That's Russian Orthodox, so I'm kind of familiar with that.

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But there's there's not really too many significant differences between

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the different.

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Speaker 1: Orthodox churches, right, no between strictly speaking Orthodox churches. No,

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they have the same dogmatic decrees, confession and catechism, et cetera.

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All right, cool, did you have to learn about like

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Russian Orthodoxy before you went there?

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Speaker 5: I mean I did just out of curiosity. The missionary

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training is pretty like standardized, and it's just about our

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core doctrine because it's like you get, it's eighteen year

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old kids, so it's.

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Speaker 1: Like you just.

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Speaker 5: You just have to like teach the basics.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so.

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Speaker 5: I'm down to debate about any issue.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, I feel like the main.

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Speaker 5: Issue that the LDS have differently from the Orthodox, well,

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obviously we have the Great Apostle see that no other

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Christians really believe in. But then there's also trinitarianism.

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Speaker 1: Well, how about this topic? You know, in the in

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the all the translations that precede the translations that Joseph

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Smith did in Luke sixteen sixteen, Jesus says the law

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and the prophets were until John, and since that time

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the Kingdom of Heaven has been preached and everyone is

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pressing into it. Now. This to us, along with Galatians

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one eight and Jude three, teaches us that there's essentially

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an end to the prophetic line. We don't need nor

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do we have any prophets or new prophets or new

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divine revelations after the death of the apostles. And so

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if that's the case, that automatically cuts out any cult, religion,

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or sect, be it Muhammadism or Mormonism, that purports to

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have a new prophet with new divine revelations.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So it's Luke sixteen, I read through that, And

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what was the other one.

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Speaker 1: Jude Jude three? The faith is once we're all delivered

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to the saints, speaking of in Jude's day Jude three,

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and then Galatians one, particularly round verse eight, where Paul

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says that there can never be any new gospel or

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new revelations, even by an Angel, that differs from the

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revelation of the Gospel that Paul has in the New Testament.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so uh okay, So I guess

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I'll address those scriptures just.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I gotta stop.

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Speaker 5: Looking at chat Uh.

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Speaker 1: One by one.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So, Luke sixteen, I guess. So, first of all,

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would you agree that there's no one thing of scripture

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like everyone that reads scripture, there's like a few different

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meanings that you can glean from the same.

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Speaker 2: Set of words.

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Speaker 1: Well, in the Orthodox tradition and the history of the Church,

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both East and West, we have the idea that there's

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layers and levels to scripture. So this is sometimes called

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the quadraga or the four levels of scripture. The literal level,

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which is kind of the immediate historical, grammatical historical context.

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There's the anagogical, there's a tropological, and the allegorical. So

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those layers and levels, though, can never differ or contradict

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the immediate grammatical historical, So there's a kind of limitation

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on any kind of over allegorizing or over speculative hermeneutic

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that we might use. So in one sense, I could say, yeah,

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I think that the scriptures are deep, and they have,

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if you want to simplify it, a literal meaning and

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then a quote spiritual meaning. But that has nothing to

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do with whether or not there could be contradictory interpretations

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of texts that are quote valid. There are no contradictory interpretations.

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Speaker 5: That are valid, Okay, I mean I can so contradictory

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with the overall Gospel message.

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Speaker 1: Right, contradictory in any sense, whether it's the Gospel message,

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or whether it's contradicting other Bible texts, whether it's contradicting

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basic principles of logic, reasoning, et cetera. There's no possibility

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of the revelation having multifaceted and quote interpretations that contradict

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because that would be a form of postmodernism or relativism. Yeah, no,

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I agree with that. Okay, okay, cool.

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Speaker 5: So the main versus sixteen then in Luke sixteen sixteen,

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the law of profits were until John. Since that time,

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the Kingdom of God has preached in every man presses

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into it. So I mean, I I mean, I agree

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with that.

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Speaker 1: I agree with the Well, how would you agree with

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that if Jeb's a smith is a prophet giving new

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revelation eighteen hundred years later.

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Speaker 5: Well, I don't think it says in that specific verse

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that there won't be subsequent profits.

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Speaker 1: Well, if the lineage of profits in the Old Testament

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sense ends that John the Baptist, it does say that.

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Speaker 2: Well, it says they.

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Speaker 1: Were in til John.

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Speaker 5: And this is Jesus speaking like while like during I

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don't know if John was alive.

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Speaker 1: At this point.

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Speaker 5: I mean, this is like in the timeframe of John.

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He's saying, along the profits were intel John, just.

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Speaker 1: Because he's not.

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Speaker 5: Saying he's saying that this thing happened, the law and

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the prophets were to tell John, and the law in

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the Kingdom of God was preached. So he's to me,

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he's giving like historical contexts for the lesson he's teaching.

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He's not making a statement about prophetic line ending.

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Speaker 1: Are you aware that in the Joseph Smith translation he

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changed this verse to not say what it says in

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every previous translation. Yeah, oh you are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well it's funny because what he changed it to says

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and they said, unto him, we have the law and

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the prophets. As for this man, we will not receive

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him to be our ruler. So that's Luke sixteen sixteen

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in the Joseph Smith translation. So all the previous all

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the previous manuscripts say what I'm saying. Joseph Smith translates

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this to say what it doesn't say, which.

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Speaker 5: Will there's Have you read verse seventeen in the Joseph

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Smith's translation.

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Speaker 1: They said, unto him, the law and the prophets testify

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of me, and the prophets that have written even until

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John foretold of these days. That does not say that

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the law and the prophets were until John, because were

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until John. Suggests that there's no more prophets in that

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Old Testament sense now that John came. Why is that?

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Because John is the announcement, the announcer of the coming

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of the Messiah. Now that Jesus has come, the role

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of an Old Testament prophet is done. There are no

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more over old tipmate prophets, because the finality of revelation,

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as Hebrews One says, Are you familiar with the way

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Hebrews The one says that in former times God spoke

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to us in various ways and in various means, via

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the prophets, via science, symbols, etc. In these last days,

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he has spoken to us through his son. There's a

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finality to this such that anyone after this time. And

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you may not know this, but a few centuries after

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the death of the Apostles, there was a group called

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the Montanists. Have you heard of them? No? So, the

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montanus existed around second century into the third century, and

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they were a quasi quote charismatic group that resurrected this

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idea that hey, there's new revelations, and Montanus is the

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voice and mouthpiece of the Holy Spirit. And because of

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these new revelations, what was prior revealed in the Bible

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and the Old Testament, in these in these New Testament

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passages and texts that were circulating, that's now superseded by

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the new direct revelations of Montanus. The Church at that time,

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explicitly in ecumenical councils and in local synods, rejects the

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entire premise of Montanus as a new prophet and voice

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of the Holy Spirit because of what I'm saying, which

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is that there are no new prophets and no new

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revelations after the death of the apostles. There's a finality

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to divine revelation, and that means that all cults and

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sex be they Islam be they Mormonism are false religions.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So first.

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Speaker 5: First all address the scriptures, and then I'll address the Montanism.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of Tertullian?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I can I address those things? You can?

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to kind of jog your memory, maybe

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help with associations. You know what Tertullian is? No, no,

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So he's the most famous second century patristic writer theologian.

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His name Tertullian. So if you were familiar with church history,

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you would know that the most famous writer of the

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second century became a Montanist. He went into the cult

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of Montanus and fell for this delusion, and that's why

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he's not believed to be a saint in the Orthodox

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or Catholic churches. So I'm just giving you an example

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of a historical time frame and a person that you

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could look to to say, ah, here's a guy. Second

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00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,599
century Tertullian becomes a Montanist. The Church universally rejects Montanism,

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and so in order for your position to be maintained,

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it would require this quote great apostasy position, which contradicts

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Jesus teaching that the gates of Hell would never prevail

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against the Church and that His spirit would always be

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there to lead into guide the successors to the apostles

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and to the end of the age.

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Speaker 5: Okay, well, you're you're you're bringing up these different arguments.

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I just want to like get into the weeds with uh, with.

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Speaker 2: All of them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've spent Yeah, fine, Luke sixteen sixteen is

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mistranslated by your cult leader to say what it doesn't say.

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Speaker 5: Okay, well, so here's here's what I'm saying, is Luke

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sixteen sixteen, And the same thing is in Hebrews. They're

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they're creating a historical context of God sent prophets, and

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now He has sent his son.

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Speaker 2: So just because they say.

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Speaker 5: This, it doesn't exclude profits from ever coming again. They

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don't explicitly exclude.

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Speaker 1: Well, then, so then the faith was not once. So

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then the faith was not once for all delivered to

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the saints past tense in Jude three.

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Speaker 2: But.

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Speaker 5: Six times the faith was delivered to the saints.

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Speaker 1: Now, if there's ongoing new revelations, which Paul warns about

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in Galatians one, about even if an angel shows up

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and preaches you a new gospel, which is the very

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thing that your cult is based on, an angel showing

473
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,079
up and preaching a new gospel.

474
00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 5: We don't believe there are new revelations. Well, we don't

475
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,920
believe they are new beliefs. We don't believe they are

476
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,599
a new gospel. We believe they're a restoration of the

477
00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:49,720
lost Gospel.

478
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,319
Speaker 1: Well that's all bullshit, that's all comic book stuff. So

479
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,400
where is any evidence of a restoration?

480
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 5: Well, I mean the restor of the priesthood of the

481
00:30:01,519 --> 00:30:02,559
church organization.

482
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: And where was any of this that existed prior that

483
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,160
you restored? Where is where did it die? Baptisms?

484
00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: Baptisms?

485
00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:14,079
Speaker 7: For I didn't ask you about your specific I didn't

486
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:17,640
ask you about your specific I asked you where specifically

487
00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:20,720
was the last time this existed such that it had

488
00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:21,400
to be restored?

489
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: Where's that point? Where? What? Give me an example of this?

490
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:29,119
Speaker 5: Where the Twelve Apostles baptism for the dead.

491
00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:33,559
Speaker 1: That's a basic noess, hold on, hold on, that's a

492
00:30:33,599 --> 00:30:37,920
separate So you believe that the Twelve Apostles taught what

493
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:38,400
you believe?

494
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: Yes?

495
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,119
Speaker 1: Do they teach the Trinity?

496
00:30:42,319 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 4: No?

497
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:45,599
Speaker 1: So the New Testament? Have you read the Gospel of John?

498
00:30:46,359 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: Yes?

499
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: Does it teach the Trinity?

500
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: No?

501
00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: Do you want to walk through the Gospel of John?

502
00:30:52,559 --> 00:30:56,960
Where did you know? Every chapter, every chapter, every chapter

503
00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:00,319
teaches the deed of Christ and the triad explicitly. If

504
00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:01,160
you if you.

505
00:31:01,119 --> 00:31:03,359
Speaker 5: Had read the Book of Mormon, you would know that

506
00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:06,359
it also uses that type of language that.

507
00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're cult lies and uses the language and

508
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,400
then gives a different meaning because you're you're a polytheistic cult.

509
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,240
You believe that God the Father was once a man

510
00:31:13,839 --> 00:31:18,599
who became deified and had offspring and physical sex. That's

511
00:31:18,599 --> 00:31:25,960
why it's a stupid cult. No, no, it's not. Don't lie.

512
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:26,359
Speaker 2: You're not.

513
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,079
Speaker 1: You're not talking to people who we know what your

514
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,599
church teaches. You're saying that you don't believe that God

515
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,119
the Father was once a man. You don't know what

516
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,440
it says. Hold on, So you're saying your church doesn't

517
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,480
teach that God the Father was once a man. It

518
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:44,039
says he was like so you're lying. He was like Christ,

519
00:31:44,519 --> 00:31:46,319
he was one. That's so he was a man with

520
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,680
a body. That's a man. Right, yeah, we believe. So

521
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:51,319
now you're lying, so you do teach that.

522
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 5: We know you're saying that God the Father was once

523
00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:57,000
a sinful man.

524
00:31:57,119 --> 00:32:01,599
Speaker 1: I didn't say that. When I didn't say that, I

525
00:32:01,759 --> 00:32:03,599
know what you're making up bullshit and put it in

526
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,039
my mouth. I didn't say that. By the way, why

527
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:08,279
does Joseph Smith add all these verses to Genesis fifty.

528
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 5: Well, you're you're not arguing in a in a coherent

529
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:15,799
or honest way.

530
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:18,839
Speaker 1: You just literally lied and attributed to me something I

531
00:32:18,839 --> 00:32:20,839
didn't say, and then admitted that you do believe that God,

532
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,759
God the Father was once a man? And I'm just

533
00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:26,599
simply I'm asking. I pointed out that you're dishonest about that,

534
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,759
and then I'm asking a separate question because you're not

535
00:32:28,839 --> 00:32:32,519
honest there. Why does Joseph Smith add versus about himself

536
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:36,279
in Genesis fifty? Why are you are you're going to

537
00:32:36,359 --> 00:32:41,240
giggle at me? You're giggling at meument because you lied,

538
00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:44,079
and because you lied and weren't honest about God the

539
00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:46,039
Father having a body and being a man. You lied.

540
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,240
Do you want me to address that? I want to

541
00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:50,960
know about Genesis fifty. Why does Joseph Smith make up

542
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,440
bullshit versus about himself? He's a con man? Genesis fifty,

543
00:32:56,079 --> 00:33:05,440
Genesis fifty, Stop deflecting Genesis fifty. Answer the question about

544
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:06,920
Genesis fifty or I'm booting you.

545
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:08,319
Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with.

546
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're done. This is this is That's what you

547
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:21,960
get with this dumb, cold tim what's up for those

548
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,119
that don't know? Again, Joseph Smith, this is how stupid

549
00:33:26,119 --> 00:33:30,920
this is. Because Genesis is talking about the patriarch, Joseph,

550
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:36,559
this dumb ass con man inserted himself as if Genesis

551
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,200
is talking about Joseph Smith. I kid you, you can't

552
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,480
make this up. It's right here on the screen for you.

553
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,759
From their website, the additional verses that Joseph Smith added

554
00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:53,519
to Genesis to predict himself. If you can't see that

555
00:33:53,519 --> 00:33:55,559
that's a con man, there's no hope for you. I

556
00:33:55,559 --> 00:33:59,559
can't help you. Imagine the people that believe this nonsense.

557
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,960
This is so stupid. And then you heard that whole

558
00:34:05,119 --> 00:34:07,880
like he knows. I wasn't. I was saying that he

559
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,440
teaches that God the Father was once a man, and

560
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,159
then he lied and said, you said a sinful man.

561
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,039
I didn't say any of that. I just said he

562
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:19,400
was a man who impregnated women, had spirit babies and

563
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,880
all that and became God the Father. O. No, we

564
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,480
don't teach that. That's a misreading. But actually he was

565
00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:28,679
a man like Christ. It's literally one of the dumbest

566
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:30,920
cults out. I mean, I don't know who's dumber, Mormons

567
00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:44,599
or Muslims. It's hard to say loved, and you know,

568
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:48,360
I hate the condescending giggle. As soon as somebody does

569
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,719
the condescending giggle, I'm out, what's up?

570
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 8: Man?

571
00:34:51,960 --> 00:35:01,639
Speaker 1: Loved? Well, God the Father wasn't a man, he was

572
00:35:01,679 --> 00:35:06,599
a guy like Christ. Exactly what I said, Elias, what's up?

573
00:35:09,679 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: Hey? Sorry, I was not a paying attention.

574
00:35:13,639 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 9: I have a couple of questions regarding ontology ontological arguments.

575
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: Okay, appropriate for you're cutting out, so go ahead. It's

576
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:25,840
hard to hear you.

577
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 2: Oh shoot, is that better?

578
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: No, it's better, go ahead.

579
00:35:34,559 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, I just I asked some questions regarding cosmological arguments.

580
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,559
I'm in a philosophy of religion class and we're kind

581
00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:42,679
of we're going over them. I have a project I

582
00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:46,159
want to incorporate some kind of Eastern Orthodox theology into it.

583
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,519
Would be okay if I asked some philosophical questions or

584
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:50,519
are you just wanting to base today?

585
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: Uh? Preferably be preferably debates. I mean, I don't like,

586
00:35:55,519 --> 00:35:57,199
there's no offense to you, but it sounds like a

587
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,519
really long boring question. No, no, I'm not calling you boring.

588
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:03,679
I'm just saying, like, what's the question.

589
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 2: I was?

590
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 9: I was just going to ask about the veracity of

591
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:09,320
cosmological arguments in general.

592
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 2: I know that a lot of kind of like tag proponents.

593
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: Will Yeah, they just rely on a lot of things

594
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,800
that are in question, and they kind of assume that

595
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,320
it's the Christian God who's the first cause. And that's

596
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,960
all begging the question. So I don't think they do

597
00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:24,079
very good. I mean you could make you could make

598
00:36:24,119 --> 00:36:26,760
a transcendental version of a cosmological argument, which would be good.

599
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,679
Speaker 9: Yeah, And I've heard that some of Maximus the Confessor.

600
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,119
I'm reading part of his on the Cosmic Mystery of

601
00:36:33,199 --> 00:36:35,440
Jesus Christ right now. I'm kind of getting my way

602
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,079
through it. I've heard that he does rely on some

603
00:36:38,159 --> 00:36:42,159
cosmological arguments, not necessarily as proofs, but just as understanding

604
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,679
Christ and God the Father.

605
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,559
Speaker 2: I might be wrong here, This is kind of hearsaying.

606
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:50,039
I haven't read the entire thing yet, but I.

607
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 9: Also wanted to know if you have you heard of

608
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,159
those guys that Telos bound, that that group who does

609
00:36:55,159 --> 00:36:58,199
a lot of like I think they call it communal ontology.

610
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,280
Have you heard of those guys at all? On h

611
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:03,159
What are your thoughts on that? Because I find it

612
00:37:03,199 --> 00:37:05,559
pretty interesting from what I listened to. I'm not super

613
00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:09,159
like versed in philosophy. I'm trying to learn it as

614
00:37:09,159 --> 00:37:10,599
we like you knows, as.

615
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,159
Speaker 1: I think that there is a lot to be uh

616
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:19,360
derived from the notion of reality being fundamentally triaddic and

617
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,119
a triad in communion. So I think there's a lot

618
00:37:23,159 --> 00:37:25,880
to be gained from that. And uh, you know, I

619
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,239
think if you read somebody like Steinyloy three Orthodox Dogmatics,

620
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,360
Volume one, Uh, there's some really good information that regard there. W.

621
00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:55,039
What's up? W? You know what I mean? I'm going

622
00:37:55,119 --> 00:38:02,800
full red stick snap into us slim jem W can't

623
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:11,840
connect Parker, not Lewis Parker Scott, Parker, Scott, what's up? Man?

624
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,199
I have a week kind of week right now. I

625
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:18,960
need some substance. What's up, man?

626
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:21,559
Speaker 2: Yo? Can you hear me? Uh?

627
00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: Huh? What's up?

628
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,159
Speaker 2: Okay?

629
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,079
Speaker 10: I've listened to most of your debates and I'm just

630
00:38:29,159 --> 00:38:31,639
a little interested in because it seems like with most

631
00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:34,239
of your debates, like Alex Malpass, you guys are kind

632
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,599
of debating if God exists.

633
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 8: And my main.

634
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 10: Question for that was for the Transton dental argument.

635
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: How do you take it.

636
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,519
Speaker 11: From say they were like Alex Malpass is like, okay,

637
00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:47,159
sure I believe in like a deistic guy, how would

638
00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:50,239
you then use the transcendental argument to point back to

639
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,280
specifically Orthodox Christianity.

640
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,639
Speaker 2: I haven't heard a debate when you get that far yet.

641
00:38:54,639 --> 00:38:57,599
Speaker 10: So I was just wondering what your logic is on that.

642
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: I did a whole talk on it. I've done multiple

643
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,320
on it. So go back and watch the critique of

644
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,400
Ed Faser. I'll talk about it there Ali, Ali Noggle.

645
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:15,559
Speaker 2: Hey, Jay, can you hear me?

646
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 12: Huh Hey, thanks for having me on. So I am

647
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,679
coming from Protestantism and I've been inquiring into Orthodoxy thanks

648
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:27,239
to your channel.

649
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: So thank you.

650
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,119
Speaker 12: And I just have like some like slow boy questions,

651
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,440
and I know that this might not be the in

652
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,559
Gopher today, so maybe I can just ask you you

653
00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:39,159
can let me know if these are in Scobe or not.

654
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm trying to be rude to you, but

655
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,880
you know, if it's like Kate Quisa's questions, you can

656
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,719
take those to your priest or you know, if you

657
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,920
could read the Pomazansky book today. I'm just really looking

658
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,199
for people who are disagreeing or would like to debate.

659
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,679
But what other questions, Well.

660
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,159
Speaker 12: It's I guess you could say it's a little bit

661
00:39:56,199 --> 00:40:00,440
of a debate because you you hold the reception theory

662
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:01,559
of ecumenicism.

663
00:40:01,639 --> 00:40:02,039
Speaker 13: Is that right?

664
00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:05,559
Speaker 12: Or like depraming whether ecumenical councils or.

665
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: Can ecumenicism is the acumenist movement that has nothing to

666
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,119
do with ecumenical councils.

667
00:40:12,199 --> 00:40:14,559
Speaker 12: Right, right, right, Sorry, I misspoke.

668
00:40:14,639 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: I think a reception theory is part of our position.

669
00:40:17,679 --> 00:40:20,599
It's not the totality of what makes an ecumenical council

670
00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:23,559
and ecumenical council. It's just that part of what will

671
00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:28,239
be the public indicator or identifier is if the entire

672
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,920
church eventually does receive it. The Orthodox world. So for example,

673
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,039
the Palamide Synods, they're not ecumenical councils because they were

674
00:40:36,039 --> 00:40:40,480
local to Byzantium. However, the entire Orthodox world has received

675
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,719
those pan Orthodox that you could call them pan Orthodox synods.

676
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 12: Now yeah, okay, And so that's kind of where I

677
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,840
think the debate comes in, because I was just reading

678
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,519
and searing some arguments against that position, such as like,

679
00:40:57,079 --> 00:40:59,840
so if you have like the Fourth Ecumenical Council where

680
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:04,719
a significant portion of the church like disagreed, how do

681
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,840
you determine, like if you're living in that time period,

682
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,159
whether it's a schism or whether it's a robber council.

683
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: There's nothing in the immedia other than whether the council

684
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,679
is teaching something true or false, that's going to tell

685
00:41:17,679 --> 00:41:21,599
you that there is no there is no perfect visible indicator,

686
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,000
and the papacy does not provide that and cannot provide that.

687
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:27,360
There's multiple cases in the history of the Church where

688
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:30,599
we can't even identify the Roman Catholic listing of that

689
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:35,159
cemitical councils. They differ, they're inconsistent on what the councils are.

690
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:40,800
So there what is being required in that case doesn't exist.

691
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,199
There is no such thing. There is no public, juridical

692
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:51,159
thing that can with assured certainty certitude tell you what

693
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,400
is a true versus a false council in some like

694
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,320
you know, juridical way, because ultimately it's going to depend

695
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,039
on whether the council is teaching truth or falsehood. So

696
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,480
on a personal individual level, this still requires and relies

697
00:42:06,519 --> 00:42:10,280
on the Holy Spirit, Okay, okay.

698
00:42:10,039 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 12: And so you would just simply say that there is

699
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,119
no system that would offer like that normative certitude, but

700
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,760
it would come down to like an individual.

701
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: At that point, No, that's normative. Normativity is not certitude.

702
00:42:25,119 --> 00:42:29,960
Certitude has to do with your individual existential like convincing

703
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:35,679
of something normativity has to do with moral questions of oughts,

704
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,440
and you know, does any group within history have the

705
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,880
authority to bind you, to bind anyone to their interpretation

706
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,320
those there are two different questions.

707
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,119
Speaker 12: Yeah, okay, okay, thank you so much.

708
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:48,639
Speaker 1: Sure, no, those are those are great questions that I'm

709
00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:50,119
not trying to be impatient with you. It's just a

710
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,519
I've been in I've been in debate mode all day long.

711
00:42:53,599 --> 00:43:03,679
So lef Ski, patron of Satan. Uh oh to the

712
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,400
guy in the chat, Yeah, why don't you call in?

713
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,320
If you don't call in, then you just couldn't do it.

714
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:08,679
What's up?

715
00:43:08,679 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 2: Man?

716
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: Hey, what's up?

717
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

718
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,079
Speaker 14: So I'll just say my position from the get go.

719
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 2: So I'm an atheist.

720
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 14: I was raised with an Islamic background, but I very

721
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,599
quickly I came to realize that all religion is basically

722
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:29,119
fairy tales and I don't I'm not convinced any supernatural

723
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:33,199
deities exist. So my position would be sort of antithetical

724
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,840
to yours. And I think you're you're a deist looking

725
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,400
at your profile, sorry, A theist, A Christian theist, yes,

726
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,039
sure so, so do you engage in conversations with unbelievers

727
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:47,679
and vice versa.

728
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've debated all the top atheists for the most part.

729
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 14: Sure, So are you like a YouTube you just do

730
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,480
this thing on like radio spaces and are you debased

731
00:43:58,519 --> 00:43:59,320
on YouTube?

732
00:43:59,679 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: No? Only on AM radio.

733
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:03,760
Speaker 2: Right, right?

734
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,559
Speaker 14: But I mean, one good thing is I would say,

735
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:10,760
is it's good to I like to hear the opposition's

736
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,960
argument because that makes you better able to everyone, able

737
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,679
to better understand their positions, because what happens a lot

738
00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:18,960
of the time is people who don't follow a belief

739
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,599
system will straw man or misrepresent the positions. I like

740
00:44:22,679 --> 00:44:26,559
to hear firsthand from someone who holds that belief system right,

741
00:44:26,639 --> 00:44:30,880
and then they can present their argument in a way

742
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,679
that is appropriate to why they believe because a lot

743
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,239
of the time, I mean, I'll give you a quick example.

744
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,599
When I was growing up, I was getting taught about Hinduism,

745
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:43,840
and then I was getting told, oh, they worship statues.

746
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,840
But then when I actually spoke to Hindus, they were

747
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,880
saying no. For most Hindus, it's allegorical and metaphorical, so

748
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,920
they're not literally were worshiping slashes. So that's why I

749
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,079
do like to speak with people on the other side

750
00:44:57,079 --> 00:44:59,239
of my beliefs. We're the political religious.

751
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, what I would say is you believe in

752
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,679
magical fantasies and fairy tales as an atheist?

753
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,559
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, but I haven't.

754
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,599
Speaker 14: I mean, are you saying that from the generic atheist position?

755
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: Yes, any any atheist position believes in fantastical, magical fairy tales,

756
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:20,519
like words having meaning?

757
00:45:24,159 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 14: Okay, I mean what do you mean by that? Could

758
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:28,840
expounder in that piece.

759
00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you read the wvo Quine paper called Two

760
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,360
Dogmas of Empiricism, he notes that within the empiricist tradition,

761
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:42,440
the end result is that there's still this nonsensical idea

762
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,559
that words in some way convey meaning about the external

763
00:45:47,559 --> 00:45:51,719
world and about events and phenomenon objects, because it relies

764
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,760
on all kinds of things that are not justified and

765
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,639
cannot be justified in an atheist empiricist worldview. So I

766
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:00,880
would just simply say that you believe in all kinds

767
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,159
of If you think that words convey and have meaning,

768
00:46:04,599 --> 00:46:06,320
you believe in flying spaghetti monsters.

769
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 14: Okay, Well, we use words for descriptions of certain things,

770
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,679
so certain concepts can be of words which I use

771
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,320
for description are used.

772
00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: For scientific concepts. E.

773
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,559
Speaker 14: G if you look at if you look at the sun,

774
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,880
it's called the sun in English, but in other languages.

775
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,679
Speaker 2: It will be called other things. So in do it's called.

776
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 14: Sewage, but it would still be the same concept.

777
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,079
Speaker 2: So whatever, And.

778
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: What is the concept in an atheists paradigm?

779
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: A concept of world?

780
00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: What is a concept at all?

781
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 2: A concept? Is?

782
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 14: It's a commonly understood theme of any anything.

783
00:46:46,559 --> 00:46:49,199
Speaker 1: It's a thing. Okay, does it matter? Is it molecules?

784
00:46:51,519 --> 00:46:55,079
Speaker 14: No, it's it's it's a it's a product of what

785
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:55,559
we are.

786
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: But so it's a product of what we are. Dude,

787
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,760
you killed it right there. I'm an atheist. Now we're done.

788
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:12,400
That was too high here, Jim. What's up man? It's

789
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,760
a concept, is a product of what we are. Got it?

790
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:18,400
What's up?

791
00:47:19,559 --> 00:47:20,559
Speaker 2: Hey? What's up? Jay?

792
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: What's on your mind?

793
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:22,599
Speaker 2: Okay?

794
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,159
Speaker 13: I want to talk to you about Panaea tocos for

795
00:47:26,159 --> 00:47:28,320
a second, real quick, just an idea I've never really

796
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,000
heard about. Maybe you hit it real quick and then

797
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,079
and then let it go. So in orthodoxology, we believe

798
00:47:35,159 --> 00:47:39,800
that the Pataya achieved theosis in a perfect and unrepeatable way,

799
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:46,320
hence making her the vessel for the incarnation. She was

800
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:49,480
the incarnation was able to happen because she said yes.

801
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:51,960
Free will was a gift from God that could not

802
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:56,280
be taken away. The incarnation required the pa to say.

803
00:47:56,159 --> 00:47:58,079
Speaker 1: Yes in order for it to happen.

804
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:02,639
Speaker 13: Calvinists and other people that don't believe in free will,

805
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,000
who are determinists, for example, they'd have to believe that

806
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:12,079
some babies that die at birth are of the unelected.

807
00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:16,320
Then there's elect babies and not elect babies. Sure, as

808
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,119
a Calvinist, as a determinist in theology, would you have

809
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:25,840
to believe to some extent that the Panayea was impregnated by.

810
00:48:25,679 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 2: The Father.

811
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,519
Speaker 13: Without her consent or without her knowledge if you don't

812
00:48:30,559 --> 00:48:34,719
accept free will and orthodoxology in that sense.

813
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:38,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in other words, from the Calvinist perspective,

814
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:42,280
everything is under the direct causation of the divine decree,

815
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:47,639
and that would include the moving of Mary's will to

816
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,239
accept exactly I agree with that.

817
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:52,559
Speaker 13: And then the last thing, which is.

818
00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:54,519
Speaker 1: Kind of well, I was I was formerly a Calvinist,

819
00:48:54,599 --> 00:48:56,000
So yeah, that's that's what they would say.

820
00:48:56,599 --> 00:48:58,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just daunted me.

821
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: I wanted to get your thoughts on.

822
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 13: I think it's kind of interesting. And then what are

823
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,599
your thoughts on William Lane Craig in the last month

824
00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:12,320
coming out and saying he is a neo, a pollinarian monophysite,

825
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,199
and he believes that the ecumenical console's aired.

826
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 1: I mean he he's been in a pollinarian for a

827
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,519
long time, so he's been open about that position for years.

828
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,599
The monophysite part is crazy, though, I didn't know he

829
00:49:26,039 --> 00:49:29,079
stay to that. But he also, by the way, you'll notice,

830
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:31,639
the confusion of nature in person is precisely what would

831
00:49:31,679 --> 00:49:33,159
lead him to say he agrees with him an off

832
00:49:33,159 --> 00:49:36,320
side position. He also, i think, rejects the eternal generation

833
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:37,960
of the sun. So he's like total heritit.

834
00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:41,119
Speaker 13: But yeah, and when you tell him that a Unitarian

835
00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:43,320
would use the same argument that he does from sol

836
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,320
subscript soloscriptur to do what he's doing, He's like no,

837
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:50,280
or like Kevin Ortlund talks about icons being not good,

838
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,400
a Unitarian can make the exact same argument they can,

839
00:49:53,559 --> 00:49:54,719
and it's just ridiculous.

840
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,079
Speaker 2: But that's it. I'll let you go.

841
00:49:56,159 --> 00:49:58,559
Speaker 1: I know he wanted it more debate, So now, yeah,

842
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:00,639
those are great questions and a great point. I think,

843
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,840
you know, you run into all kinds of theological issues

844
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:09,400
with the basically, to speak, in terms of philosophy metaphysics,

845
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,840
Calvinism denies secondary causes, and so if they were consistent,

846
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,039
they would really be Muslims. I mean they're really they

847
00:50:17,079 --> 00:50:22,599
would be occasionalist like many Sunni Muslims are. And actually

848
00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:25,000
some Calvinists have been occasionalists. For those who don't know,

849
00:50:25,639 --> 00:50:30,079
Jonathan Edwards was famously an occasionalist, so pretty pretty much

850
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:35,079
identical to Islam. Tim. Now, guys, remember we're supposed to

851
00:50:35,159 --> 00:50:39,000
have a Roman Catholic debate tonight. I forget the guy's name,

852
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:45,400
but he's just one second. He's Tim Gordon's buddy and

853
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,119
nice guy. I think his name's Chris or something like that.

854
00:50:49,199 --> 00:50:53,920
But he took issue with my video on the temporal

855
00:50:53,960 --> 00:51:00,000
supremacy of the pope. When I'm signed them, go ahead,

856
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,840
Hey Jay, what's up? What's on your mind?

857
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,119
Speaker 2: I had a couple questions.

858
00:51:07,159 --> 00:51:10,639
Speaker 15: One of them was not not sort of a debate,

859
00:51:11,079 --> 00:51:14,079
more of a clarification. The other one I wanted to

860
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:18,039
kind of challenge something. But the first one I just

861
00:51:18,079 --> 00:51:21,400
wanted to preface it with a a and like a

862
00:51:22,199 --> 00:51:25,119
kind of apologize for anything I will say because it's

863
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,280
it can be viewed as maybe blasphemous or maybe out

864
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,920
of my ignorance, but I just wanted to like have

865
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:38,159
a clarification. Why is the Eucharist not viewed as a

866
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,480
like a ritualistic cannibalism.

867
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:44,079
Speaker 1: Like, well, the liturgy it calls us, it calls it

868
00:51:44,119 --> 00:51:49,800
the bloodless noetic sacrifice. So it's a bloodless rational offering

869
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,199
because Christ deified the flesh that he assumed. It is

870
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,280
not a human sacrifice that is, you know, appeasing divine

871
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,079
wrath like some sort of you know, like Zeus or something.

872
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,519
Speaker 15: Okay, so the difference would be kind of cannibalism is

873
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:08,079
where it's not consensual.

874
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: It's also not an offering of the dead, right, it's

875
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:16,559
an offering of the deified living flesh of the god

876
00:52:16,679 --> 00:52:20,920
man who as the high priest, is offering his humanity

877
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,599
to the triad. And that's explained in the medieval Byzantine

878
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:30,400
Synods that it's not a human sacrifice, cannibal offering of

879
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,920
the dead to pay off the angry God the Father.

880
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:38,360
That's all pagan theology. Orthodox theology is that the second

881
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,800
person of the God had assumed human nature to deify it,

882
00:52:41,079 --> 00:52:45,079
to raise it up to divine trinitarian life, so very

883
00:52:45,079 --> 00:52:47,719
different attitude from the sort of pagan view.

884
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense.

885
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,559
Speaker 15: And then my second question was as someone coming from

886
00:52:53,679 --> 00:53:00,760
Protestant background inquiring into Orthodoxy, and I do think that historically, theologically,

887
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,280
the Orthodox, I would say, is much more correct on Protestantism.

888
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:08,719
But I just maybe you can clarify on a critique

889
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:13,760
of sola scriptura, the critique of the interpretations and the

890
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:19,960
normative authority to tell you which interpretations are correct. So why,

891
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:24,480
for example, when between like Orthodox and Coptic and Catholic

892
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,679
interpretations of tradition, you would argue, like, the coherence of

893
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:35,440
the tradition correct.

894
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 1: No, I don't know that I would if I was

895
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,840
arguing like with a Coptic or a Roman Catholic person, No,

896
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,639
I wouldn't argue that coherence necessarily proves it, unless it

897
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:47,960
was some sort of like a roundabout or argument like

898
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:52,079
I mean by extension. When I debated with Obara, I

899
00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:55,639
was kind of arguing that there's no quote coherence because

900
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,960
Roman Catholicism at a fundamental level can contradict and pre

901
00:53:59,079 --> 00:54:02,199
Vatican two and post into teaching. So in that sense,

902
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,679
it was kind of a coherence argument, but not really

903
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:08,519
like most of the time, if it's a Roman Catholic

904
00:54:08,639 --> 00:54:11,840
or a Coptic, you kind of have to go into

905
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,239
the history to prove that case. Like there's no way

906
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,360
to really argue like papism without looking at the history

907
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,199
of the rise of the papacy, you know what I mean.

908
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:23,920
So I don't know that I would. I don't think

909
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,039
I would argue necessarily holism, except in the case of

910
00:54:28,119 --> 00:54:31,320
like trying to argue at a system level, like I

911
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,280
did to a Barro, because my argument to a Borrow

912
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:38,280
was if Roman Catholicism at a dogmatic level contradicts at all,

913
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:41,679
that invalidates the whole system. And I was doing that

914
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:46,519
to try to not let Eric make the case that

915
00:54:46,639 --> 00:54:49,960
he could like stack up one hundred different evidences to

916
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,800
prove ninety eight percent of the papacy. Right, if I,

917
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:58,000
at a system level can invalidate the system with just

918
00:54:58,159 --> 00:55:01,360
one dogmatic Roman Catholic contradiction and then all of that

919
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,280
wasting everyone's time with yapping for five hours to get

920
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,840
out three sentences to prove the papacy, he goes out

921
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:08,199
the door.

922
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 2: Okay, that.

923
00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 15: I kind of see what you mean, Mike, Basically my

924
00:55:17,639 --> 00:55:23,800
point is, why can't I argue like the same thing

925
00:55:24,119 --> 00:55:30,519
within scripture, like if power to its kind of going

926
00:55:30,559 --> 00:55:32,760
off of what I said about the coherence, like, why

927
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,880
can't I argue like the most coherent view of scripture

928
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,639
and disregard all others.

929
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 1: Well, it's not that you couldn't, it's just that that's

930
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,480
going to take a really long roundabout. It's going to

931
00:55:49,519 --> 00:55:53,519
be very difficult in a debate setting to show that,

932
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:59,280
because a holistic argument means you're reconciling all of the parts.

933
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,400
I mean, the Bible is thousands of pages. It's just

934
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:06,840
a huge endeavor. It's kind of impractical on a debate

935
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,920
setting level to do that. Now, if you're like teaching

936
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,599
a college course and you want to demonstrate the coherence

937
00:56:12,639 --> 00:56:16,480
of Christianity, you know, throughout a whole semester lecturing through

938
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,360
the totality of the Bible, maybe you could do that.

939
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,039
But just for like a debate setting, it's just very

940
00:56:21,079 --> 00:56:26,679
difficult to try to argue holistic coherence accept in the

941
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:33,440
case of like atheism, because atheism is so fundamentally incoherent

942
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,199
at a base level that all you really need to

943
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:41,519
do is demonstrate not that your worldview is exhaustively coherent,

944
00:56:41,639 --> 00:56:44,519
but that you have the possibility of coherence at all,

945
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:47,320
versus an atheist worldview where there's no coherence. The problem

946
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,559
is that when you're arguing with other theistic positions, they're

947
00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:55,719
not going to immediately be fundamentally incoherent, like like an

948
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,519
atheist would be. Does that make sense?

949
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 15: Yeah, I see, okay, that makes sense.

950
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's just a longer, more difficult route.

951
00:57:08,039 --> 00:57:11,239
Like I mean, even in that Ibarra debate, like I

952
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,920
don't think for a lot of the Roman Catholic audience

953
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,559
or for Ebarra himself, like I don't think they got

954
00:57:16,599 --> 00:57:19,280
the point I was making. I mean, I tried over

955
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,800
and over to say that I'm just going to add

956
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,639
a systemic level, try to prove that the Roman system contradicts,

957
00:57:26,079 --> 00:57:28,119
and that just blows their mind because they don't think

958
00:57:28,159 --> 00:57:30,000
in terms of systems. They only think in terms of

959
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:37,599
like piecemeal building it from the bottom up. So so

960
00:57:38,039 --> 00:57:40,519
I guess I just don't, like give me an example

961
00:57:40,559 --> 00:57:42,840
like you're saying, like what if I tried to debate

962
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:47,559
a Protestant that my worldview from the Bible, I can

963
00:57:47,639 --> 00:57:52,000
give a completely coherent totality interpretation of the Bible and

964
00:57:52,079 --> 00:57:54,519
your Protestant world. You can't do that. It's going to

965
00:57:54,599 --> 00:57:57,679
be really hard to demonstrate that. I'm not saying you can't,

966
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,960
but I'm just kind of I'm sure.

967
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 15: Is the critique of the different interpretations of the Bible

968
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,639
a very good critique for solicituture, because I mean one

969
00:58:09,679 --> 00:58:12,840
could a Protestant could just argue that themselves, even though

970
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:14,719
for them it would take a really long time. They

971
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,000
could just argue that the Bible is my only authority,

972
00:58:18,039 --> 00:58:22,119
and I will provide a completely totally coherent world you

973
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:23,920
strictly based on the Bible.

974
00:58:24,239 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 2: So I'm just wondering if well.

975
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: At that level, no, I wouldn't even grant that. I

976
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,000
would just go to, well, you can't really have the

977
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,400
Bible without the Church determining the canon. I wouldn't even

978
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,360
go into all that would just cut all that off.

979
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:39,599
And otherwise, like part of debate is also I think

980
00:58:39,639 --> 00:58:44,519
the skill set of knowing like quickest cut to the chase,

981
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:49,079
rather than allowing the opponent to like yap for hours,

982
00:58:49,119 --> 00:58:52,039
and that just ends up kind of distracting and going

983
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:55,920
down you know, red herring trail, rabbit trails, and in

984
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,280
a debate. It's a lot more effective to keep it

985
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,360
on one topic and just cut to the chase. Now,

986
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,760
you might say, well, when you argue with that Mormon dude,

987
00:59:04,119 --> 00:59:05,719
you moved to a different topic. I moved to a

988
00:59:05,719 --> 00:59:08,840
different topic when the Mormon dude lied about God the

989
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,920
Father and wouldn't he wasn't gonna be honest with that.

990
00:59:11,199 --> 00:59:13,159
So that's why I moved over to theseph smith adding

991
00:59:13,239 --> 00:59:16,239
verses to Genesis, because like, let's move on to a

992
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,239
different topic, right, So I think part of that what

993
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:25,239
you're talking about is like experience, lived experience with debate

994
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,840
and figuring out, like what for the sake of the

995
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,719
audience might be a better course to take rather than

996
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,119
letting some goober yap for five hours to try to

997
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:41,079
like it's just like, yeah, let some Protestant come on

998
00:59:41,199 --> 00:59:43,960
and give a ten hour course lecture to prove that

999
00:59:44,039 --> 00:59:46,760
he has a coherent interpretation of the Bible. Is just

1000
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:48,239
I think that's a complete waste of time.

1001
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:54,239
Speaker 15: Yeah, And then so yeah, the interpretation critique isn't self

1002
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,159
isn't sufficient on its own and about the canon?

1003
00:59:57,519 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: Would let me let me restate that I think that

1004
00:59:59,519 --> 01:00:04,239
the interpretation critique is a good way to demonstrate the

1005
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:08,480
need for normative authority. That's where that works, because no

1006
01:00:08,599 --> 01:00:12,159
Protestants believe that there's any body of men within history

1007
01:00:12,159 --> 01:00:15,320
that have the normative authority to bind your conscience to

1008
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,599
an interpretation. So it is a great apologetic and practical

1009
01:00:19,639 --> 01:00:23,519
point to say to the Protestants, you don't think Jesus

1010
01:00:23,559 --> 01:00:27,360
provided the Church any means to, you know, settle issues

1011
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:31,760
authoritatively and bind people's conscience. When the framers of America

1012
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,960
were smart enough to know that we needed a Supreme

1013
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,800
Court to interpret the Constitution, they didn't just mail out

1014
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,320
constitutions to everybody in America to interpret on their own.

1015
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:43,239
You see. I mean even the founding fathers had enough

1016
01:00:43,639 --> 01:00:46,480
foresight to know that we would need some governing body

1017
01:00:46,519 --> 01:00:51,079
to interpret the document authoritatively versus you know, Jesus just

1018
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,320
gives everybody this, you know, these letters and then you know,

1019
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:57,960
good luck, hope you hope, you hope you keep it

1020
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,480
together out there like he did that provide a group

1021
01:01:01,519 --> 01:01:03,599
of people to know rule the church.

1022
01:01:05,719 --> 01:01:10,159
Speaker 15: Yeah, My question is they would instead of appealing to

1023
01:01:10,239 --> 01:01:13,480
normative authority, like you'd have a normative authority to tell

1024
01:01:13,519 --> 01:01:16,159
you that this is the correct interpretation and then the

1025
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:18,840
Protestant would say, well, I can tell you why this

1026
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,400
is the correct interpretation because your interpretations incoherent.

1027
01:01:22,519 --> 01:01:24,519
Speaker 1: Why is that not like a valid thing they can

1028
01:01:24,559 --> 01:01:29,199
do well? Because it's missing the point that all classical

1029
01:01:29,239 --> 01:01:32,639
Protestantism is built on history. Who can bind your conscience?

1030
01:01:35,239 --> 01:01:41,159
Protestanism is built on the idea that the foundational doctrines

1031
01:01:41,199 --> 01:01:44,079
of the Reformation are things like freedom of worship and

1032
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:44,960
freedom of conscience.

1033
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 2: Okay, so okay.

1034
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 1: So if they if they started so, they would be

1035
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,519
surrendered to, not hold to that would mean surrendering basic

1036
01:01:53,559 --> 01:01:54,639
Protestant principles.

1037
01:01:55,079 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 2: Okay.

1038
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,719
Speaker 15: Yeah, So even if they provide a fully coherent and

1039
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:02,920
show me that my interpretations incoherent, they can't actually tell

1040
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,920
me that I have to believe their their interpretation.

1041
01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: Basically, Yeah, I mean one of the Protestant basics is

1042
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:17,679
the right of private interpretation. As Orthodox or even a

1043
01:02:17,719 --> 01:02:20,559
Roman Catholic like that doesn't exist. Where did you get

1044
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:22,760
the idea that you have a right of private interpretation?

1045
01:02:24,639 --> 01:02:28,559
Speaker 15: And then about the canon, I just want like a

1046
01:02:28,559 --> 01:02:33,320
clarification about so like a common thing they will try

1047
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,920
to say, isn't that these scriptures and self themselves are

1048
01:02:37,159 --> 01:02:43,960
like inherently authoritative by nature, and then whichever ones of

1049
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,800
those are, they come out in history. And I understand

1050
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,559
that it's kind of begging the question, but I just

1051
01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:49,960
want to.

1052
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,239
Speaker 1: Well again, think of that, think of the analogy to

1053
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:56,159
the Constitution and the Supreme Court. I mean, it's fine

1054
01:02:56,199 --> 01:02:59,559
to say that the documents are authoritative, but documents don't

1055
01:02:59,599 --> 01:03:03,719
do any thing on their own. They require interpretation. And

1056
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:08,280
it's obviously ridiculous to think that, oh, well, this is

1057
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,280
just up to everybody to figure out on their own.

1058
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,239
And think of the implications of this. This would mean

1059
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:17,119
that nobody within history can actually resolve any issues because

1060
01:03:17,119 --> 01:03:20,920
they could conceivably be wrong. And then every successive generation

1061
01:03:21,119 --> 01:03:24,800
must reinvent the wheel and rediscover and go through every

1062
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:30,559
historical chaos and squabble all over again. So we're we

1063
01:03:30,639 --> 01:03:32,400
have to read to the airing crisis, we have to

1064
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,960
read to the montanous crisis. We have to read So

1065
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:39,320
it just is silly and unworkable to think that the

1066
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:44,440
texts do anything on their own without people interpreting the text.

1067
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,760
That's why Paul says the pillaring foundation of truth is

1068
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,840
the church, the living community. It's not the books or

1069
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,000
the parchments that are the pillar and ground of truth.

1070
01:03:54,639 --> 01:03:58,960
The church is who produced the parchments, the writings, the text.

1071
01:03:59,119 --> 01:04:02,320
They have authority, but they only have authority within the

1072
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:05,599
context from which they emerge and the very community who

1073
01:04:05,639 --> 01:04:07,599
decided what books go into that book.

1074
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

1075
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,559
Speaker 15: And about the church, what exactly does it mean that

1076
01:04:14,559 --> 01:04:16,119
the Church is the body of Christ.

1077
01:04:17,719 --> 01:04:22,679
Speaker 1: It literally means that the continuation of the incarnation is

1078
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:27,079
that the Church is a theanthropic god man institution, that

1079
01:04:27,159 --> 01:04:30,639
we are the actual limbs and body of Christ on earth.

1080
01:04:32,239 --> 01:04:35,639
Speaker 15: Yeah, but it's you wouldn't say, like one part of

1081
01:04:36,079 --> 01:04:39,559
the church institution on earth is like the eye of

1082
01:04:39,679 --> 01:04:41,159
Jesus or the liver of Jesus.

1083
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean when Paul explains that, he means that spiritual

1084
01:04:45,079 --> 01:04:48,679
gifts is what he's referring to. Right, So eyes are

1085
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,480
like foresight, the gift of prophecy and so forth. I

1086
01:04:52,519 --> 01:04:54,880
don't mean prophecy in the sense of Old Testament prophets.

1087
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:56,679
That just mean it in the sense of like elders

1088
01:04:56,719 --> 01:04:59,800
and some of the spiritual gifts. Obviously, he's not literally

1089
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,840
saying like you are the eyes of Jesus.

1090
01:05:03,679 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 15: So what distinct like if Jesus took upon a universal

1091
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,960
human nature, would in Jesus's body be all of all

1092
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,679
of humans. What distinguishes Jesus, the body of Jesus Christ

1093
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:18,320
being the Church, from all other humans.

1094
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:22,039
Speaker 1: What that means is that in his single divine hypostasis,

1095
01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:26,400
he's able to recapitulate all human nature as the second atom.

1096
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,199
It doesn't mean he assumed every single human hypostasis. He

1097
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:34,960
assumed in his single body and single human nature, the

1098
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:38,639
universality of human nature by recapitulating it. Just like Adam.

1099
01:05:38,679 --> 01:05:42,639
What Adam did, it affected all of his descendants. So likewise,

1100
01:05:42,719 --> 01:05:46,039
Christ as the new atom, will affect all of his descendants.

1101
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:50,519
So every human being will be resurrected because of that universality.

1102
01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:53,039
But it doesn't mean that every individual human person or

1103
01:05:53,119 --> 01:05:57,239
human hypostasis will participate in theosis, because that's dependent upon

1104
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,119
you in your own mode of willing, attaining the virtues,

1105
01:06:01,119 --> 01:06:06,400
attaining the Holy Spirit, attaining thiosis, et cetera. But it

1106
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,840
does not mean that Christ is incarnated in every single

1107
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,519
human being. It means that in the single human body

1108
01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:16,559
that he took from the Virgin Mary, he was able

1109
01:06:16,639 --> 01:06:22,719
to recapitulate and encapsulate all human nature. How because he's

1110
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:25,599
a divine person, that's all. That's the explanation that's given

1111
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:30,559
at this sab of Ecumentical Council in St. Theodore's writing

1112
01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:33,159
about how he's the universal man.

1113
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:37,559
Speaker 2: You could say, okay, thank you. Yeah, they clarified quite

1114
01:06:37,599 --> 01:06:37,880
a bit.

1115
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 15: I mean, I wouldn't say understand everything full least of

1116
01:06:40,599 --> 01:06:42,320
quite a bit of reading to do, but thank you.

1117
01:06:42,519 --> 01:06:42,719
Speaker 2: Sure.

1118
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are great questions. So I think we had

1119
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:50,880
a mkg five dollars, Jay, could you check the second

1120
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:52,840
part of the super chat I sent I have to go.

1121
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:54,360
I was hoping I'd get an answer to that and

1122
01:06:54,440 --> 01:07:00,480
later rewatch, let's see, let's go back. I just know

1123
01:07:00,519 --> 01:07:02,519
that aside from Hebrews, is there any other texts that

1124
01:07:02,559 --> 01:07:05,000
I should read in order to discuss this point with you?

1125
01:07:06,239 --> 01:07:08,840
I mean, you know later, I mean, really, this comes

1126
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,360
down to a presupposition about the doctrine of the church.

1127
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,159
So you know you're gonna need to read like the

1128
01:07:14,159 --> 01:07:17,280
Gospel of John or we have the promises that Jesus

1129
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,360
gave to the church and the apostles that the Holy

1130
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:21,639
Spirit would come upon them, lead them and guide them.

1131
01:07:21,639 --> 01:07:24,599
That's what we see an acts two. That's Pentecost. And

1132
01:07:24,639 --> 01:07:27,320
so the idea that you know, Paul could get everything

1133
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,519
wrong and the other Apostles were right, but Paul rebuked them.

1134
01:07:30,599 --> 01:07:32,480
I mean, this would really just be to undo the

1135
01:07:32,639 --> 01:07:37,760
entire promise that Jesus says in John fourteen fifteen, sixteen

1136
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,559
seventeen that this Holy Spirit will guide the Church, lead

1137
01:07:40,559 --> 01:07:42,719
it into all truth. I will never leave you, forsake you.

1138
01:07:42,719 --> 01:07:44,719
I will not leave his orphans. I will be with

1139
01:07:44,719 --> 01:07:46,400
you until the end of the age, et cetera, et cetera,

1140
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,960
et cetera. I mean, those are all promises that relate

1141
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,519
to Pentecost and the company of the Holy Spirit. So

1142
01:07:51,559 --> 01:07:55,199
the idea that the Church could be in some great apostasy,

1143
01:07:55,679 --> 01:07:58,119
I mean this is really remember MKG, this is what

1144
01:07:58,159 --> 01:08:00,840
the Mormon guy was saying, right, Mormon is grounded on

1145
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,679
this idea. After the Apostles died, there was a great apostasy,

1146
01:08:04,239 --> 01:08:07,400
and so this lunatic Masonic con man eighteen hundred years

1147
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:11,880
later is restoring the original Apostolic Church and teaching right

1148
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:19,000
similar idea to if you believe that Paul subverted Christianity

1149
01:08:19,119 --> 01:08:22,680
like Mormons or Acumu like a Muslims, some of the

1150
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,800
Muslims say, first of all, that didn't make sense in Islam,

1151
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:28,199
by the way, because in the Quran it actually says

1152
01:08:28,199 --> 01:08:30,520
that the followers of Jesus will be made victorious by

1153
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,800
a law, as Samshuan points out, so that means Paul,

1154
01:08:35,159 --> 01:08:37,960
Paul was a follower of Jesus, and so Paul's victorious.

1155
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:41,640
So again the Koran contradicts. But you know, to get

1156
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:46,560
back to whether it's Mormonism or whether it's some I mean,

1157
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:50,199
there's some sects like Marcian. Marcian said something like I think,

1158
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:54,319
didn't Marcian say that Paul was a subverter of Christianity.

1159
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:59,239
So really this would be to deny the promise of

1160
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:01,199
the coming of the Spirit, is what that amounts to.

1161
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:03,840
And it would be to admit that that the gates

1162
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:06,920
of Hell prevailed against the Church, because essentially, after the

1163
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:12,840
death of Apostles, none of these weird cult sectarian positions succeeded.

1164
01:09:14,239 --> 01:09:18,359
Remember the debate with Bryson, what that he is? Fallacy,

1165
01:09:18,399 --> 01:09:22,399
what that he is? Remember remember Bryson Gray Bryson says, oh,

1166
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:28,640
you know, the true Judaism, Christianity of arian Rian Judaizing,

1167
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,920
whatever gibberish, he's made up. That's the real Christianity that's

1168
01:09:33,079 --> 01:09:36,079
secretly existing in all these centuries. Oh, what's the evidence

1169
01:09:36,119 --> 01:09:40,640
of that? Because Juizers, that's them, that's the amp Oh,

1170
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:42,840
it's a million different groups with a bunch of different

1171
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:46,840
conflicting the theologies. Some of them Arians, some of the Trinitarian.

1172
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:51,199
That's the true Christianity because they're Judaizers. That's so stupid.

1173
01:09:51,199 --> 01:09:57,319
The Bryson argument was right. In other words, what the

1174
01:09:57,319 --> 01:10:01,239
the premise that you have, MKG is essentially the Bryson,

1175
01:10:01,319 --> 01:10:07,720
Gray and Mormon whatever premise that Jesus didn't provide the

1176
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,880
guidance of the Church to the Holy Spirit at Pentecosts.

1177
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:18,000
Normy Slayer twenty five dollars, jay, I, thank you. I

1178
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,159
think that once we get rid of fluoride in the water,

1179
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,760
a lot of these normies will perhaps begin to understand

1180
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,039
the words that come out of your mouth. You know,

1181
01:10:26,079 --> 01:10:28,399
that could be a factor obviously, you know, dumbing down

1182
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,960
toxic environment. But keep in mind too, as we point out,

1183
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,439
as fda off and points out, you know a lot

1184
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:36,760
of the issues that we're discussing, that we're talking about,

1185
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:41,800
there is an intellectual element and component but the ultimate

1186
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:45,840
root of all the problems is not intellectual. Man's problem

1187
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,680
is not intellect. Man's problem is not a lack of

1188
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:54,960
facts and knowledge. It's pride. Pride is man's problem at root,

1189
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,439
not intellect. And if that intellect can be a great

1190
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:02,600
stumbling block and a source of pride. Now there's a factor,

1191
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:06,960
an element to which, yes, people need to be presented

1192
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,840
with the correct positions against their false positions, which does

1193
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,880
relate to intellect. But coming out of a false position

1194
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:19,159
and into the true position is not ultimately KeyPoint an

1195
01:11:19,199 --> 01:11:25,239
intellectual problem. It's a pride heart problem. And so no

1196
01:11:25,359 --> 01:11:30,600
one will accept the truth without repenting first, and repentance

1197
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:36,560
requires humility, which is the antidote to the vice of pride.

1198
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:43,520
Nicodemus one dollar. I bought zero point one BTC in August.

1199
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,640
It has doubled since then. Almost I couldn't have done

1200
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,479
this without you. Well, hey, look, as everybody at the

1201
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:54,479
Bitcoin says, every SAT counts, so even if you're buying

1202
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:58,159
small amounts of SATs, it all will count in long run.

1203
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,840
Buggy three dollars. A month ago, you made a comment

1204
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:06,119
about Pope Francis. At the end you said Vatican one

1205
01:12:06,279 --> 01:12:09,880
says that the pope is infallible in faith and morals. Yes,

1206
01:12:10,359 --> 01:12:14,000
even if he isn't speaking ex cathedral, where is that? Yes,

1207
01:12:14,039 --> 01:12:20,560
it is the Vatican one statements talking about ordinary magisterium.

1208
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:26,720
So let me show you that. By the way, I've

1209
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,479
made multiple videos on this topic, so you can go

1210
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:34,119
back to my Vatican one documents or videos that I've

1211
01:12:34,119 --> 01:12:35,359
done have dent at least two or three of those

1212
01:12:35,399 --> 01:12:37,439
of Vatican one, And you can look at the video

1213
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:40,479
I made called was Vatican two Infallible? Which refutes the

1214
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:44,560
tragcats who think that they can really nearly hand wave

1215
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,159
Vatican two and they're not bound by it, because the

1216
01:12:47,159 --> 01:12:51,199
stupidity of this position is that, I mean, even I

1217
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:56,680
don't think that it's not dogmatic, Vatican two is absolutely

1218
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,720
obviously a dogmatic Roman Catholic council. They point to these

1219
01:13:00,199 --> 01:13:03,880
ridiculous statements like when Paul the six says it was pastoral,

1220
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:08,520
So something pastoral. Calling something pastoral doesn't mean that it's

1221
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:12,479
not dogmatic. Guphases. You could literally say every ecumenical council

1222
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,079
is quote pastoral, that doesn't mean it's not dogmatic. And

1223
01:13:16,079 --> 01:13:18,000
then they go to this other stupid quote which says

1224
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:23,479
that Vatican two, uh defined no new dogmas. Yeah, so

1225
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,279
what that doesn't mean that it's not also still stating

1226
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:32,479
older dogmas. This is the level of casuistri and sophistry

1227
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:34,600
that you deal with it with these idiot Roman Catholics.

1228
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,199
I mean, I've dealt with it for a year when

1229
01:13:36,239 --> 01:13:39,039
I was an idiot Romancalic. So let's look at Vatican one.

1230
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:44,119
And I don't know why this is, but for whatever reason,

1231
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:49,079
you have to go to papalencyclicals dot net for the

1232
01:13:49,239 --> 01:13:51,439
This might be why some of these Romancalics don't even

1233
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:56,600
know what Vatican one says, because their own freaking Vatican

1234
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,880
website doesn't far as far as I can tell, doesn'tny

1235
01:14:00,159 --> 01:14:02,039
have all the decrees of Vatican won on it. I

1236
01:14:02,079 --> 01:14:03,960
mean maybe there is somewhere and I just haven't found it.

1237
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:06,640
But you have to go to Papal encyclicals, not dot net,

1238
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:10,479
which has all of the decrees the Vatican won. And

1239
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:13,079
every Roman Catholics should print this out and read it.

1240
01:14:13,239 --> 01:14:14,960
I don't know why they're too lazy to do this.

1241
01:14:15,039 --> 01:14:17,119
Remember that guy that called in was like, I'm going

1242
01:14:17,199 --> 01:14:19,000
to read a ten page paper. I'm like, well, then

1243
01:14:19,039 --> 01:14:20,760
don't even why are you even calling into debate If

1244
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,439
you don't have time to invest in the religion that

1245
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:25,680
you think is true. You can't read ten or fifteen pages,

1246
01:14:26,319 --> 01:14:28,000
Why are you wasting our time? Get out of here.

1247
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:35,479
So uh, this is called ordinary magisterium, and many Roman

1248
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:39,880
Catholics don't know what this is, even though countless Catholic

1249
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,680
theology manuals openly write and talk about this. It's not

1250
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:49,840
a mystery. When Vatican One defines what is dogmatic and

1251
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:54,279
must be believed by everyone, does it say that you

1252
01:14:54,359 --> 01:14:57,920
only have to believe the ex cathedra statements. It does

1253
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,800
not say that, In fact, that's false. It's actually condemned position.

1254
01:15:01,359 --> 01:15:05,119
It explicitly says that you must believe, by divine and

1255
01:15:05,199 --> 01:15:08,359
Catholic faith, all the things contained in the Word of God,

1256
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:12,159
scripture and tradition that are proposed by the Church as

1257
01:15:12,199 --> 01:15:16,479
divinely revealed by the Solemn judgment or in her What

1258
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:20,560
does that say? Solemn judgment refers to what we call

1259
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:25,319
ex cathedral that's the extra normative things that define dogma.

1260
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,600
That is an ex cathedral statement or an ecumenical council.

1261
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:33,000
Those are the two extra normative Solemn judgment types of things.

1262
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:38,079
The other things that must also believed be believed that

1263
01:15:38,159 --> 01:15:41,479
are under the patrin keroism of protection of infallibility and

1264
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:46,800
cannot error are what are called the ordinary and universal magisterium.

1265
01:15:47,159 --> 01:15:50,199
Do all of you hard headed goofballs see it right there,

1266
01:15:50,359 --> 01:15:53,079
clear as day. So what this means is that if

1267
01:15:53,079 --> 01:15:57,479
you're a Roman Catholic, you cannot say I only have

1268
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:00,640
to believe what the Pope teaches ex Cathedral. Now ninety

1269
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:04,560
five percent of these goofballs believe that they literally believe

1270
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:09,079
the opposite of what Vatican one says. And it doesn't

1271
01:16:09,079 --> 01:16:11,840
matter how many times you tell them this, and you can,

1272
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:16,920
you can machine gun this at them until you pass out.

1273
01:16:17,359 --> 01:16:21,079
They don't get they cannot get this. Now, amazingly, some

1274
01:16:21,159 --> 01:16:24,199
of them do get this. For example, believe it or not,

1275
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:29,720
Michael Loft Doog actually understands this. Yes, you heard me correctly.

1276
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:37,359
Michael Loftdog is actually correct. And when he argues against

1277
01:16:37,359 --> 01:16:42,319
the tradcats, he actually argues correctly on the basis of

1278
01:16:42,399 --> 01:16:45,560
Vatican One, that you do not have the right to

1279
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:52,720
reject the ordinary teaching of the Church. Now what is

1280
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:58,960
the ordinary universal magistrum? Now, remember Romancantholicism thrives on open

1281
01:16:59,079 --> 01:17:05,439
ended ambiguit definitions, so there's never any defined statement about

1282
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:09,279
what all the dogmatic statements are. It's so stupid this

1283
01:17:09,359 --> 01:17:12,760
thing is. Keep in mind, if romic Thousism is true,

1284
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:17,560
couldn't we at least expect a dogmatic list of the

1285
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:22,479
dogmatic teachings? You would think, Oh no, no, you don't get that.

1286
01:17:23,079 --> 01:17:27,760
You get generic principles that you're supposed to figure out

1287
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:30,960
of out of these thousands of pages of documents. What

1288
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,560
goes into what been This is the religion that's supposed

1289
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,439
to be sold to you by these bad car salesmen

1290
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:41,039
as the religion that gives you certitude based on the

1291
01:17:41,079 --> 01:17:43,960
office of the papacy. What it actually gives you is

1292
01:17:44,279 --> 01:17:48,800
mountains of documents that you in a worse situation than

1293
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,039
a Protestant, because a Protestant only has to try to

1294
01:17:52,079 --> 01:17:56,720
make these thousand pages make sense. No, no, you got these

1295
01:17:57,199 --> 01:18:02,239
and the endless papal documents and concil your documents which

1296
01:18:02,319 --> 01:18:09,399
include extraordinary and ordinary universal teaching. Now get this, It

1297
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:13,840
gets even sillier. So what are the ordinary universal teachings? Ah?

1298
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,920
You see, those are the get this, I kid you

1299
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:20,640
not those are the things that the Church has always,

1300
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:26,279
at all times and everywhere taught. I'm not joking. So

1301
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:37,680
another totally ambiguous, open ended good luck with that, thousands

1302
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:46,119
of thousands of pages. It would be nice if there

1303
01:18:46,159 --> 01:18:50,159
was a list of what those things are. Now, the

1304
01:18:50,239 --> 01:18:53,319
closest I could think of to a list would be Denzinger, right,

1305
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,920
I mean, Denzinger is like the closest thing to what

1306
01:18:57,119 --> 01:19:00,640
the list of the dogmas are. But Denzinger isn't even

1307
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,279
all the dogmas. And to further expand on this point,

1308
01:19:04,359 --> 01:19:08,680
you have to know that just because something is not

1309
01:19:09,079 --> 01:19:13,479
let's say universal ordinary or extraordinary magisterium, right, the two

1310
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:16,880
things that are governed by the patrin charism and by infallibility,

1311
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:21,960
and that the Church cannot err in right, there's other

1312
01:19:22,079 --> 01:19:27,159
teachings that you still have to submit to with quote docility.

1313
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:32,960
So for example, canon law, the pope's juridical decisions according

1314
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:36,039
to Vatican one. And we've covered this a million times,

1315
01:19:36,079 --> 01:19:38,960
it's in some four places in Denzinger to tell you

1316
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:43,079
have to believe this. Let's say the Pope decides that

1317
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:47,640
Archbishop so and so is excommunicated, do you, as a

1318
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:50,159
Roman Catholic believe or think that you have the right

1319
01:19:50,279 --> 01:19:51,920
to reject the Pope's excommunication.

1320
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:53,039
Speaker 16: You do not.

1321
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:56,039
Speaker 1: Vatican one is clear as day, and even going all

1322
01:19:56,039 --> 01:19:58,800
the way back to Octorum feedde, you do not have

1323
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,520
the right in Roman Catholicism to judge the First See

1324
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:07,920
or to reject his canonical juridical decisions. And so the

1325
01:20:08,079 --> 01:20:12,479
entire basis of the SSPX is fraudulent and schismatic. Via

1326
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:18,239
Vatican one, you must submit with docility, even if you

1327
01:20:18,359 --> 01:20:23,399
think that the Pope is wrong in matters of ordinary teaching,

1328
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:29,359
in matters of universal ordinary teaching or extra extra ex

1329
01:20:29,399 --> 01:20:32,760
cathedral teaching, there's no question of whether you have to submit.

1330
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,760
You absolutely have to submit. You don't. You don't even

1331
01:20:36,039 --> 01:20:41,279
have you submit, because it's dogmatic and it is inerrant.

1332
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,000
It is the Church is indefectible, The Pope is indefectible.

1333
01:20:46,279 --> 01:20:52,439
Now ordinary teaching, not universal ordinary ordinary teaching. That's where

1334
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:55,760
there can be error. But in the Roman Catholic system,

1335
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,640
do you have the right to object to and oppose

1336
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:03,520
the Pope Hope in ordinary teaching, which he admittedly could

1337
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:07,760
err in, No, you do not. Even in the ordinary teaching.

1338
01:21:08,399 --> 01:21:12,239
The traditional Roman Catholic moral theology says very clearly, and

1339
01:21:12,279 --> 01:21:16,079
I think canon law is that you must submit with docility,

1340
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:21,079
even to the matters which are not directly under the magisterium.

1341
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,520
That's the Roman Catholic system. And so every trad Cat

1342
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:28,880
and somebody sent me a Bishop Strickland today, one of

1343
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:32,680
the trad Cat popes or excuse me, bishops. He's not.

1344
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:34,159
I mean, if you're in the no disorder, you don't

1345
01:21:34,159 --> 01:21:37,199
even trad Cat. But I don't know if he's Strickland

1346
01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:40,640
a Latin mass person, I don't even know. But he's

1347
01:21:41,199 --> 01:21:46,960
praying and protesting Frank Francis and is saying that Francis

1348
01:21:47,119 --> 01:21:51,159
is not a Catholic and is not teaching Catholic dogma. Okay,

1349
01:21:51,199 --> 01:21:55,000
that's a direct violation of Vatican One. It's a direct

1350
01:21:55,079 --> 01:21:57,640
violation of the canons of the Roman Catholic Church. Canon law.

1351
01:21:58,079 --> 01:22:01,039
No one judges the first Sea. And even if you

1352
01:22:01,079 --> 01:22:05,720
think Francis is an error, you must submit with docility.

1353
01:22:06,159 --> 01:22:08,439
And so all of the Roman Catholics and trad Cats

1354
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:12,039
who are pretending that they can do all of their

1355
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:16,560
rebelling and all this, they're actually operating like Orthodox and

1356
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:20,439
or Protestants. That's the funny part, and they don't care,

1357
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,319
and they don't read Vatican one. And when they go

1358
01:22:23,359 --> 01:22:27,640
and rea Vatican one, they then say, kid you not. Well,

1359
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:33,560
that's the papal reading of the papal reading a Vatican one.

1360
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:37,560
Oh you see, that's the ultramontanous reading a Vatican. Vatican

1361
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:40,920
one is an ultramontanous council. Of course there's going to

1362
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:44,880
be an ultramontanous reading of it. That's what it's about.

1363
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:49,399
Speaker 8: Well, that's the liberal reading that it could do. Vatican

1364
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:51,840
two is actually trad if you mix up all the

1365
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:53,960
words and make them have the opposite meaning that they

1366
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:56,680
normally have a little look at my magic work. Yay,

1367
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:57,520
it's trad.

1368
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:02,159
Speaker 1: No, it's not trad. You'll ever get tad out of Muslims,

1369
01:23:02,239 --> 01:23:05,479
Jews and Christians and Hindus worship the same god. That's

1370
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:13,920
never going to be tried, dummies. Anyway, I went down

1371
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,479
a rabbit hole, esoteric. Noan, we got hyper nome hyperborea

1372
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:20,520
in the house. Look, I got energy, and I'm in

1373
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:25,680
debate mode. And so in one and a half hour

1374
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:28,359
we're supposed to have Roman Catholic dude come to bate.

1375
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:31,199
So let's now He's a nice guy, seems very charitable,

1376
01:23:31,359 --> 01:23:34,800
very easy to talk to. So I'm not gonna be mean.

1377
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:38,800
We're gonna have a great, hopefully civil conversation. In my experience,

1378
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:45,279
everyone in the Tim Gordon's sphere is very civil. Remember

1379
01:23:45,279 --> 01:23:50,399
the football player AJ Hurley. You know, we had a

1380
01:23:50,399 --> 01:23:56,800
two hour discussion on atomism. Great conversation, nice guy. We

1381
01:23:56,880 --> 01:24:02,279
got we got heated, but everything was cool, right, nobody.

1382
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:06,399
Speaker 9: Remember, Okay, remember when I came to your town, saying

1383
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:10,119
Augustine and I debated your whole city.

1384
01:24:10,239 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 1: Yes, and you won. And this they gave you the keys.

1385
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:21,600
They gave you the papal keys to the city. All right,

1386
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:25,640
let's see esoteric. Are you there, I'm man, Yeah, I'm here.

1387
01:24:26,359 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 2: I just have.

1388
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,479
Speaker 17: I saw one of your streams earlier, and correct me

1389
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:33,279
if I'm wrong. You said something along the lines of

1390
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:39,039
the Roman Catholic Church, uh says that you, through natural

1391
01:24:39,079 --> 01:24:43,159
theology and natural theology alone, can basically come to the

1392
01:24:43,199 --> 01:24:45,920
whole of the Christian paradigm and theology.

1393
01:24:46,159 --> 01:24:49,560
Speaker 1: No, of course not. That's okay, the opposite of what

1394
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:50,279
I argue.

1395
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,079
Speaker 17: No, I'm saying that like from the that's what you said.

1396
01:24:53,079 --> 01:24:56,560
Speaker 1: The Catholic Church they don't believe that you can never

1397
01:24:56,600 --> 01:25:00,479
get you can never get supernatural revelation from natural from

1398
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:04,279
natural theology. They're two different they're two different series. Yeah

1399
01:25:04,319 --> 01:25:04,880
I never said that.

1400
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, sorry about that.

1401
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:09,399
Speaker 1: Then that's right, right, So the definition of natural theology,

1402
01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:12,560
whether it's John Paul's and cyclical Fetus at ratio or

1403
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:18,760
whether it's the UH. I bought the Evangelical Dictionary of

1404
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:22,880
Theology and William Lane Craig wrote the entry I think

1405
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:25,640
in there where he defines natural theology in exactly the

1406
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:27,680
same way that John Paul the Second does, which is

1407
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:31,640
that it is reasoning about God from the natural world,

1408
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:35,520
apart from any divine revelation. That's the definition of natural theology.

1409
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:41,359
So there's nothing in that that could lead you to

1410
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:50,000
accepting trinity or incarnation, because they're two different domains in

1411
01:25:50,079 --> 01:25:50,840
natural theology.

1412
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 2: Right.

1413
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:53,720
Speaker 17: No, I will hardly agree with that. Yeah, it was

1414
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:55,439
just something I misinterpreted.

1415
01:25:56,039 --> 01:25:58,520
Speaker 1: Well, my critique was that all of that's dumb, it

1416
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:00,840
doesn't make any sense. So if you watch the Trent

1417
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:06,399
Horn debate that we debate at every point, Okay, thank you, Yeah, No,

1418
01:26:06,479 --> 01:26:11,840
it's fair question, and I'm always happy to clarify voiceless

1419
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:28,119
in Toronto. You got I mute?

1420
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 2: Oh was that director to me? Sorry, I couldn't hear anything.

1421
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 1: What's on your mind?

1422
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 14: Hey, g oh, I just heard you speaking about Hinduism.

1423
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 2: So I was born Hindu.

1424
01:26:39,039 --> 01:26:41,239
Speaker 18: But it's it's it's not even a religion. It's a

1425
01:26:41,319 --> 01:26:45,119
teaching that was co opted by Brahmins uh to to

1426
01:26:45,159 --> 01:26:47,239
just install the cast system. So a lot of people

1427
01:26:48,079 --> 01:26:50,640
don't even know that Hinduism is not really intended to

1428
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:53,000
be a religion. It's just a teaching and then it became,

1429
01:26:53,079 --> 01:26:54,239
you know, the major religion.

1430
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:57,039
Speaker 1: And so are you saying that what we know of

1431
01:26:57,079 --> 01:27:02,840
as Hinduism is more of a state controlled system. We're saying, I'm.

1432
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:04,680
Speaker 18: Not sure however you want to take it. I mean,

1433
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:08,840
it's for example, the cow is considered like a holy animal,

1434
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:12,880
and most kind of orthodox Hindus.

1435
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:15,600
Speaker 2: Don't eat beef. But it was just installed.

1436
01:27:15,159 --> 01:27:19,319
Speaker 18: As in animal into the into the scriptures to prevent

1437
01:27:19,359 --> 01:27:21,720
it from going extinct because the population was growing at

1438
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:23,279
such a rate that it was better to keep it

1439
01:27:23,279 --> 01:27:25,680
alive because of the advantages it gives what it's alive,

1440
01:27:26,159 --> 01:27:28,840
rather than just kill it and eat it. So you know,

1441
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:31,840
there's many things about hindusm is taken from a book

1442
01:27:32,079 --> 01:27:34,720
that then became something called above it Geita, which is

1443
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:39,079
just you know, kind of like teachings. And then there's

1444
01:27:39,079 --> 01:27:41,439
a group called the Brahmins who installed themselves.

1445
01:27:41,159 --> 01:27:42,359
Speaker 2: At the top of the cast system.

1446
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:44,720
Speaker 1: Kind of well, I guess what I'm saying is that

1447
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:48,119
are you saying that it's essentially it evolved to be

1448
01:27:48,279 --> 01:27:53,439
calm an elitist mechanism of control by the Brahmins, is

1449
01:27:53,439 --> 01:27:54,000
what I'm saying?

1450
01:27:55,319 --> 01:27:58,680
Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, sir, Yeah, so that's all I want to add.

1451
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:01,319
Speaker 18: I'm more of a faist now, so I just believe

1452
01:28:01,359 --> 01:28:03,960
in God, but not really a follow of religion. You know,

1453
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:06,800
I went to a Catholic boys on the boarding school

1454
01:28:07,199 --> 01:28:09,479
when I was growing up in Zimbobwe, which was then,

1455
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:12,000
which was you know, a British calling.

1456
01:28:12,319 --> 01:28:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, I appreciate that. That's a good insight there.

1457
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:20,039
There is almost always some sort of you know, kind

1458
01:28:20,039 --> 01:28:23,800
of an elite control mechanism going on in all religions,

1459
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:25,960
and I mean even in Orthodoxy. You go back to

1460
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:29,880
the you know, the emperors had in many cases, the

1461
01:28:30,159 --> 01:28:36,800
evil Emperors, they had machinations and designs through heresies to

1462
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:41,319
control the Church. For example, you had Aryan iconoclastic emperors

1463
01:28:41,359 --> 01:28:47,920
who if they were able to install the iconoclass doctrine

1464
01:28:49,079 --> 01:28:51,079
one of the components of this would mean that it

1465
01:28:51,119 --> 01:28:55,039
would also allow them to basically control the church, same

1466
01:28:55,119 --> 01:29:02,039
with the the Aryan emperor's similar state mechanisms for controlling

1467
01:29:02,079 --> 01:29:04,920
the church. There, Frankish Malchite five dollars I had a

1468
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:09,560
trinitarian question concerning the issue of Christ as God specifically

1469
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:14,119
got the word if the Father is ontologically greater. Well,

1470
01:29:14,199 --> 01:29:16,880
that's the first mistake there. We don't say that the

1471
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:21,279
Father is ontologically prior. He is the cause, he is

1472
01:29:21,319 --> 01:29:25,439
the fount, he is the arka. He is not ontologically greater.

1473
01:29:26,239 --> 01:29:29,960
And that's why the son has the exact same nature

1474
01:29:30,199 --> 01:29:33,439
as the Father, communicated to him by the Father, just

1475
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:36,479
like a son. If you have a king and the

1476
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:40,079
king has a son, the son doesn't have any greater

1477
01:29:40,199 --> 01:29:43,000
or lesser human nature than his father, the king. They

1478
01:29:43,039 --> 01:29:46,439
have identically the same nature. But yet the king has

1479
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:50,720
a greater role than the prince the son. And so

1480
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:52,800
that's the sense in which we say that the Father

1481
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:55,560
is quote greater, is in the sense of role, not

1482
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:59,920
in the sense of ontology. That's the Aryan subordinationist argument.

1483
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:04,239
You go on to say in your question, is the

1484
01:30:04,239 --> 01:30:06,720
son the Father's wisdom being the word? Would this mean

1485
01:30:06,760 --> 01:30:09,600
that the command let there be light would be the

1486
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:13,840
son enacting the father's will. Well, you could still believe

1487
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:19,039
that the son is enacting what the Father wants without

1488
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:24,880
there being any kind of Aryan subordinationism going on, because

1489
01:30:25,159 --> 01:30:27,760
in the Gospels, Jesus tells us that he only does

1490
01:30:28,359 --> 01:30:30,560
the will of the Father. So that's and he's a

1491
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:33,920
divine person speaking that. He's saying me that a second person,

1492
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:37,920
the God had divine person always only does the will

1493
01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:41,680
of the Father. But that does not equate to any

1494
01:30:42,039 --> 01:30:47,199
aryan Joe's witness subordinationism, because all arianism and subordinationism is

1495
01:30:47,199 --> 01:30:51,880
built on the assumption that the Father is onto logically

1496
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:56,520
superior and not superior by role. But there's no reason

1497
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:59,439
to believe that, And in fact, the Gospels contradict that

1498
01:30:59,479 --> 01:31:02,640
because men many times over Jesus says, everything the Father

1499
01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:05,720
has he has, all the works the Father does, he does.

1500
01:31:06,279 --> 01:31:11,000
Everyone should honor the son as they honor the Father. Okay,

1501
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:14,399
if there's a subordination, then that's all blasphemous stuff that

1502
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:17,199
Jesus is saying. And that's precisely what the Jews say.

1503
01:31:17,279 --> 01:31:20,439
The Jews think he's blaspheming because there he's literally saying

1504
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:24,520
he's equal to the Father, big Boss. Ten dollars. Did

1505
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:27,039
you happen to see where Mel Gibson calls many of

1506
01:31:27,079 --> 01:31:33,000
the current Roman Catholic bishops of Francis hirelings and then

1507
01:31:33,039 --> 01:31:36,560
he says, who is hiring the hirings? No, but I

1508
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:39,439
mean Mel Gibson's actually made comments like that for twenty years.

1509
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,840
I mean going back to I don't know the exact

1510
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:46,359
date when Mel became a trad cat because it goes

1511
01:31:46,399 --> 01:31:49,319
back to Hutton and I remember back when I was

1512
01:31:49,359 --> 01:31:51,720
a trad cat, I remember actually going I actually read

1513
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,119
Hutton Gibson's stuff. He used to have a website on it.

1514
01:31:54,119 --> 01:31:56,279
Maybe he still does, I don't know, but I remember

1515
01:31:56,319 --> 01:31:59,439
reading Hutton Gibson's set of a Conscious Arguments back in

1516
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:03,560
the day. So that's that was at least two thousand

1517
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:08,199
and five, six seven, So we're coming up on almost

1518
01:32:08,199 --> 01:32:12,039
twenty years of you know, Hutton Gibson having a website.

1519
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:18,199
I don't know if it's still up, but no, I

1520
01:32:18,199 --> 01:32:20,359
mean Mel Gibson has said this kind of stuff for

1521
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:24,760
a long time. And if I recall, he built his

1522
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:28,520
own trad cat chapel I think out in California somewhere.

1523
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:32,399
I forget the name of it, Like, I think it's

1524
01:32:32,399 --> 01:32:37,359
for a holy family, not the other cults online, nothing

1525
01:32:37,399 --> 01:32:40,600
to do with the other STA cults in the world.

1526
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:43,880
A set of a contism. It's all very like independent like,

1527
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,359
it's all very fractured. There's no like over there's no

1528
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:51,039
overarching like unified communion of the set of a contests.

1529
01:32:51,119 --> 01:32:53,439
They're all kind of doing their own thing, even if

1530
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:57,439
they have similar names. Let's see, I Hutton Gibson still

1531
01:32:57,479 --> 01:33:02,920
has a set of a contass website up. Uh So,

1532
01:33:03,159 --> 01:33:04,800
I guess he passed away. I didn't know if I

1533
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:13,119
didn't know he had passed away. And I'm assuming that

1534
01:33:14,119 --> 01:33:17,560
this is the means by which Mel became a track cat.

1535
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:37,119
I'm just well, I mean, you can't trust googling. It

1536
01:33:37,119 --> 01:33:39,960
basically doesn't work. You can't find anything you're looking for.

1537
01:33:40,079 --> 01:33:48,319
But you can find actually you can find his books

1538
01:33:48,359 --> 01:33:55,239
interesting because apparently they come up here on good Reads.

1539
01:33:58,359 --> 01:34:02,920
So uh interested, So he looks like Hutton produced a book.

1540
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:05,439
It looks like a state a book. He might not

1541
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:07,960
have been full of nineteen eighty eight, but maybe he was.

1542
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:12,319
That's pretty early nineteen eighty eight, Hutton Gibson wrote a

1543
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:15,840
set of a conscious book. Interesting is the pope Catholic.

1544
01:34:19,640 --> 01:34:21,439
Let's see if it's full of Saya one hundred and

1545
01:34:21,439 --> 01:34:35,560
eighty eight pages. We need to hope that mel Gibson

1546
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:39,159
becomes Orthodox, because I mean, at a certain point, you know,

1547
01:34:39,359 --> 01:34:41,600
the Saya world is just so kind of crazy. It's

1548
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:45,800
like it just I think it eventually becomes a very

1549
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:50,840
obvious dead end. You probably have to use some other

1550
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:54,119
search engine to find his website. If maybe if he

1551
01:34:54,159 --> 01:34:59,760
passed away, it's no longer there. I don't know anyway,

1552
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:08,760
all right, we got one last person, Manuel, and then

1553
01:35:09,319 --> 01:35:12,840
remember to come back in an hour. Hopefully we'll have

1554
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:16,720
a debate with our Catholic friend. We'll see what he

1555
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:21,319
wants to discuss. It'll be interesting because his response video

1556
01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:27,279
was actually addressing the dogmatic teaching argument that I have

1557
01:35:27,439 --> 01:35:33,039
about temporal supremacy of the pope, and I've not seen

1558
01:35:33,039 --> 01:35:36,760
any Roman Catholics so far address that argument, So it'll

1559
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:40,359
be interesting to see. Presumably he'll be the first that

1560
01:35:40,399 --> 01:35:44,520
I've seen addressing it. Manuel, you got an unmute Hello,

1561
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:45,319
what's up?

1562
01:35:46,359 --> 01:35:51,840
Speaker 16: Oh, hijane, I was you know, I was about to

1563
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:56,479
call earlier today but my mic he just did not work.

1564
01:35:56,720 --> 01:36:00,439
Speaker 1: So well you're here, man, what's up? Yeah?

1565
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:01,319
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

1566
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:05,560
Speaker 16: So I was asking about I had a question because

1567
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:10,479
I saw a video by a guy named Planet Peterson

1568
01:36:10,640 --> 01:36:11,319
or something like that.

1569
01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:12,840
Speaker 2: Right, do you know him?

1570
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 1: Oh, is this that atheist guy that Jim Bob's always debating.

1571
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:19,760
Speaker 16: I'm not sure about Jim Bob, but yes, it.

1572
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:22,720
Speaker 1: Is Jembob's I've never watched this guy, but I've seen

1573
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:24,399
Jim Bob kind of critique him.

1574
01:36:25,319 --> 01:36:28,920
Speaker 16: Okay, yeah, So I was asking about. You know, one

1575
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:31,760
thing that he said in one of his videos. He

1576
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,319
said he talked about, you know, presuppositions and all that,

1577
01:36:36,039 --> 01:36:39,239
and he said something along the lines of like, well,

1578
01:36:39,319 --> 01:36:44,119
you know, the thing with presuppositions is that you can

1579
01:36:44,239 --> 01:36:47,119
just make it up, and anybody can make up a

1580
01:36:47,159 --> 01:36:50,840
good I don't know, God with presuppositions or something like that.

1581
01:36:51,159 --> 01:36:54,680
Speaker 1: No, it's not true. It actually has to do the

1582
01:36:54,720 --> 01:37:02,159
work of grounding the transcendal categories universals, logic, history, ethics,

1583
01:37:03,159 --> 01:37:06,439
and so just making something up doesn't do any grounding work.

1584
01:37:07,399 --> 01:37:10,479
Speaker 16: Okay, So are you telling are you saying that you know,

1585
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:14,439
God has to, like I don't know, appear in history

1586
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:16,640
or interact with the world, is what you're saying.

1587
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:19,640
Speaker 1: I think that would be one of the implications of

1588
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:24,279
a coherent worldview in theology. I wouldn't hinge everything just

1589
01:37:24,359 --> 01:37:27,439
on saying something like God has to enact and you know,

1590
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:32,119
interact in history, I mean the incarnation and you know,

1591
01:37:32,319 --> 01:37:37,359
the revelation of Christian. The Christian worldview does, though, give

1592
01:37:37,359 --> 01:37:41,000
an account for a meaning for history. So in that

1593
01:37:41,239 --> 01:37:46,039
broader sense of you know, making history and all the

1594
01:37:46,079 --> 01:37:49,640
events within history meaningful, with the doctrine of divine providence

1595
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:54,039
and the doctrine of you know, t lost teleology all

1596
01:37:54,119 --> 01:37:57,720
of that, that would be the route of argument I

1597
01:37:57,720 --> 01:37:58,359
would make there.

1598
01:37:59,680 --> 01:38:03,760
Speaker 16: Okay, Okay, And I guess another final question. I have

1599
01:38:04,079 --> 01:38:06,600
a father, you know, my dad, you.

1600
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:08,359
Speaker 1: Know, he's I think we all do. I think we

1601
01:38:08,399 --> 01:38:08,680
all do.

1602
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:10,119
Speaker 4: Okay.

1603
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:15,439
Speaker 16: He's an old Mexican dude, Catholic, and I kind of,

1604
01:38:16,279 --> 01:38:20,000
you know, try to call him to Orthodox scene. He

1605
01:38:20,199 --> 01:38:22,720
was like, I don't know, maybe if you do me

1606
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:28,119
like present me arguments is there like any videos or

1607
01:38:28,159 --> 01:38:31,199
any quick argument that you can give me to my

1608
01:38:31,319 --> 01:38:36,399
refuge Roman Catholicism or show clear contradiction something like that.

1609
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:40,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you go to my community tab.

1610
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:47,279
I recently re shared the video where I just kind

1611
01:38:47,319 --> 01:38:52,279
of collected together what I toital. It's called top five

1612
01:38:52,399 --> 01:38:56,680
simple arguments against papal Infallibility. I have another, you know,

1613
01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:59,399
top ten reasons I'm not Roman Catholic video from a

1614
01:38:59,399 --> 01:39:03,760
few years ago. Oh, this this one dogmatic contradiction Androme

1615
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:07,359
Catholicism video. So those are all kind of intended to

1616
01:39:07,399 --> 01:39:12,920
be accessible, you know, pop level videos.

1617
01:39:13,359 --> 01:39:18,920
Speaker 16: Okay, Oh, I guess another question that has been troubling me,

1618
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:21,159
and I'm gonna be done after this.

1619
01:39:22,119 --> 01:39:22,479
Speaker 2: Uh.

1620
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:26,720
Speaker 16: It's it's a question about, uh, you know, about Jesus

1621
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:28,600
when he goes up to heaven.

1622
01:39:29,279 --> 01:39:33,239
Speaker 2: Right, So can we agree that you.

1623
01:39:33,199 --> 01:39:35,760
Speaker 16: Know, you know, God the Son is eternal and that

1624
01:39:36,479 --> 01:39:41,159
he enters creation right as a human being. Okay, Uh,

1625
01:39:41,199 --> 01:39:45,880
you know, and I don't know how if I'm whatever right,

1626
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:49,119
But the thing that troubles me is that how can

1627
01:39:49,319 --> 01:39:53,079
God the Son be you know, eternally in heaven or whatever,

1628
01:39:53,680 --> 01:39:57,199
but then comes down, you know, to earth. And then

1629
01:39:57,319 --> 01:40:01,560
comes back as you know, default.

1630
01:40:01,159 --> 01:40:07,119
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's not primarily it's not primarily like because

1631
01:40:07,119 --> 01:40:10,960
he's omniscient, excuse me, omnipresent, right, so he possesses all

1632
01:40:10,960 --> 01:40:14,359
the omnies. If you read John one, John says that,

1633
01:40:14,880 --> 01:40:17,720
you know, we beheld the Son of God in the flesh,

1634
01:40:18,239 --> 01:40:21,079
who was always in the bosom of the Father. So

1635
01:40:21,119 --> 01:40:24,399
he never left the bosom of the Father even while

1636
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:27,880
he was on earth, because even though as humans we

1637
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:32,359
think about it as spatial location, via his divine omnipresence,

1638
01:40:32,399 --> 01:40:35,520
he was always eternally with the Father. He's everywhere.

1639
01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:39,600
Speaker 16: Oh okay, all right, okay, that makes sense because I

1640
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:42,640
was having, you know, a little bit, a tiny bit

1641
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:45,000
of an existential crisis because I was like, how does

1642
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:48,000
it make sense that you know he's he's eternally.

1643
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:50,520
Speaker 1: Well, it's a both, it's a both. And so in

1644
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:54,680
other words, we understand that because he's a divine person,

1645
01:40:54,720 --> 01:40:58,039
he possesses the omnies and therefore he's omnipresent. But we

1646
01:40:58,119 --> 01:41:01,119
also recognize that via Philip Beans two, which is the

1647
01:41:01,199 --> 01:41:04,880
Kenosis text, he was able to enter into a motive

1648
01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:07,520
being which the Father and the Spirit did not In

1649
01:41:07,560 --> 01:41:12,319
other words, becoming incarnate, right, which is essentially the mystery

1650
01:41:12,319 --> 01:41:14,359
of the incarnation. This is what John presents it as,

1651
01:41:14,359 --> 01:41:17,000
and the Orthodox Church is always upheld it as as

1652
01:41:17,039 --> 01:41:20,640
Saint Cyril says, the mystery that God could be born

1653
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:24,359
of a virgin. It's a mystery. So exactly how he

1654
01:41:24,399 --> 01:41:26,399
does that, we don't know the mechanics of that. It's

1655
01:41:26,439 --> 01:41:29,840
above us. But it is revealed to us that the

1656
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:32,119
second person that God had entered into the motive being

1657
01:41:32,199 --> 01:41:35,279
of being incarnate as a human being and ascended into

1658
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:38,600
the third heavens to be at the right hand of

1659
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:41,600
the Father. So it's a both then and on either or.

1660
01:41:43,159 --> 01:41:46,239
That's why we say he underwent no change when he

1661
01:41:46,319 --> 01:41:49,920
became incarnate. He never lost his divinity or ceased to

1662
01:41:49,960 --> 01:41:53,680
be divine, or transformed into a man or transformed into

1663
01:41:53,720 --> 01:41:56,800
a third thing like of an office site say, he

1664
01:41:56,920 --> 01:42:00,319
always instill remains the second person of the God had

1665
01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:03,359
the difference being that he is now existing in a

1666
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:07,560
new mode of being as man, as the God Man.

1667
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:13,720
Speaker 16: Okay, okay, yeah, that makes more sense. Anyways, I'll have

1668
01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:14,079
to go.

1669
01:42:14,399 --> 01:42:15,039
Speaker 9: Thank you, Jy.

1670
01:42:16,039 --> 01:42:16,960
Speaker 2: I love your videos.

1671
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:20,760
Speaker 1: You do appreciate that. And by the way, Also, another

1672
01:42:20,760 --> 01:42:24,319
good video that might be accessible is the video I

1673
01:42:24,319 --> 01:42:26,920
made a month ago called the Pope says All Religions

1674
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:31,199
lead to God. That one's a good yeah, because you know,

1675
01:42:31,199 --> 01:42:34,800
it's just kind of presenting kind of basic level, you know, contradictions.

1676
01:42:36,359 --> 01:42:39,680
Wellington will go to the last one because I'm starting

1677
01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:40,960
to get a little bit of a headache and I

1678
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:44,159
do want to have energy for our Catholic friend tonight

1679
01:42:44,239 --> 01:42:46,840
if he can make it. Now, he's not guaranteed that

1680
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:49,800
I'll be here at nine, he thinks he can. Maybe

1681
01:42:49,840 --> 01:42:51,680
I should check my inbox to see if he's given

1682
01:42:51,680 --> 01:42:53,680
me any updates, so I'll see what he says. Just

1683
01:42:53,680 --> 01:43:00,439
one second, Bro, I can't hear you? Man? Is closed

1684
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:03,680
because no, I can't hear you. I mean I can

1685
01:43:03,720 --> 01:43:07,079
barely hear you talking. Can you tuk the volume up?

1686
01:43:07,680 --> 01:43:08,399
It's all the way up?

1687
01:43:08,399 --> 01:43:08,560
Speaker 2: Man?

1688
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:09,840
Speaker 7: Oh?

1689
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:13,359
Speaker 1: Is there any way you can hear because I can barely?

1690
01:43:13,399 --> 01:43:15,039
I mean, what what? What's you have a question? Or

1691
01:43:15,039 --> 01:43:15,399
what's up?

1692
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:16,000
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1693
01:43:16,079 --> 01:43:18,960
Speaker 10: My question is is not even debate for?

1694
01:43:19,239 --> 01:43:24,199
Speaker 7: But like, so you don't know Buddhism, right, I.

1695
01:43:24,159 --> 01:43:26,399
Speaker 1: Know a little bit about Buddhism. I'm not extensively right

1696
01:43:26,439 --> 01:43:27,520
in Buddhism.

1697
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:29,399
Speaker 3: I was I was kind of thinking about this.

1698
01:43:32,079 --> 01:43:33,600
Speaker 1: I can't hear you, man, I'm sorry. I'm not trying

1699
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:35,239
to be rude to you, but I can't hear you.

1700
01:43:35,239 --> 01:43:42,119
Maybe uh like type your question or something Frankish Melchite

1701
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:43,880
will go to you last.

1702
01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:52,000
Speaker 2: Hello, yo, Hey.

1703
01:43:52,079 --> 01:43:54,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was wondering if I could briefly elaborate on

1704
01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:56,640
the question I super chatowy.

1705
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:58,399
Speaker 1: The subordination question.

1706
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:00,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because I'm.

1707
01:44:00,640 --> 01:44:04,479
Speaker 4: Trying to in my catechises. I'm trying to better understand

1708
01:44:05,479 --> 01:44:09,680
monarchy and trinitarianism, and there's kind of a question I

1709
01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:15,199
ran into when I was seeing the Father's ontologically greater.

1710
01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:19,239
The reason why I termed it that way is because

1711
01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:27,640
I get concerned with ascribing time, to say, the unbegotteness

1712
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:29,840
of the Father and the begotteness of the son, And

1713
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:31,960
this kind of goes into the second part of my question.

1714
01:44:32,079 --> 01:44:35,239
Speaker 1: Well, that's that was the Aryan argument against Athanasius, right,

1715
01:44:35,279 --> 01:44:38,920
So when Athanasians talked about the father being the cause

1716
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:41,720
of the son, the Arians would argue that, well, cause

1717
01:44:41,720 --> 01:44:45,000
and effect is a temporal thing, so that necessarily means

1718
01:44:45,039 --> 01:44:49,199
that the son is generated in some temporal sense and

1719
01:44:49,319 --> 01:44:52,359
Athanasians says, it's just an analogy. It doesn't mean it's

1720
01:44:52,359 --> 01:44:54,800
an eternal causing. It's not a temporal causing.

1721
01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:59,000
Speaker 4: I see, I say, okay, And that kind of leads

1722
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:01,960
into the second part of my question, which I remember

1723
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:05,119
when I was Roman Catholic, I had an Augustinian view

1724
01:45:05,159 --> 01:45:08,359
on the Trinity, right, and I tried at all times

1725
01:45:08,399 --> 01:45:11,520
to enforce that coequalities.

1726
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's called it. It's called it, a qualitarian view

1727
01:45:14,600 --> 01:45:15,079
of the Trinity.

1728
01:45:15,119 --> 01:45:19,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, focus on the divine assets as a personhood

1729
01:45:19,199 --> 01:45:21,600
and such a head, things like that.

1730
01:45:21,720 --> 01:45:23,079
Speaker 1: I remember vividly.

1731
01:45:23,159 --> 01:45:27,800
Speaker 4: I used to tell people to compensate this, specifically witnesses.

1732
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:33,680
I said, the Son came into being when the Father said,

1733
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:36,600
let there be light, because that was the first words.

1734
01:45:37,119 --> 01:45:40,239
But I see now that that's been very delicious.

1735
01:45:40,359 --> 01:45:42,119
Speaker 1: No, that would be that would be an Arian argument.

1736
01:45:44,600 --> 01:45:46,880
Speaker 4: Oh really, So there wasn't even like the area state

1737
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:49,680
even believe there was a stasis, you know, with that

1738
01:45:49,680 --> 01:45:52,800
the Son was being created before he even said the

1739
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:54,720
words let there be like by the father's.

1740
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:57,520
Speaker 1: Well, they would just argue that the first work of

1741
01:45:57,560 --> 01:45:59,880
the Father was the creation of the son, and the

1742
01:46:00,279 --> 01:46:04,560
is kind of like this demi God, I see.

1743
01:46:04,279 --> 01:46:07,600
Speaker 4: I see, so would be accurate to say that it

1744
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:10,199
was in fact at the Sun that said let there

1745
01:46:10,239 --> 01:46:10,600
be lies.

1746
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:16,079
Speaker 1: I think the Orthodox view of the fathers is that

1747
01:46:16,279 --> 01:46:21,439
the Trinity each has a unique each person in the

1748
01:46:21,439 --> 01:46:25,079
triad has a unique role in the creation of the world,

1749
01:46:25,119 --> 01:46:27,720
and so Basil's dictum of from the Father, through the

1750
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:30,600
Son and in the Spirit would apply essentially to all

1751
01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:32,439
of the actions of God. So, in other words, the

1752
01:46:32,479 --> 01:46:36,239
creation of the world also happens from the Father, through

1753
01:46:36,239 --> 01:46:40,119
the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. So usually they

1754
01:46:40,119 --> 01:46:45,039
exegete passages like that, as the Father speaking the eternal

1755
01:46:45,239 --> 01:46:49,359
word of the Logos, and as Hebrews one and Colossian

1756
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:53,119
says the world came to be from the Father through

1757
01:46:53,359 --> 01:46:54,319
the Logos.

1758
01:46:57,119 --> 01:46:57,520
Speaker 2: I see.

1759
01:46:58,159 --> 01:47:00,279
Speaker 4: A final final question, who would you say? It's just

1760
01:47:00,359 --> 01:47:03,840
a chearis of otherwise would be would be the best introduction,

1761
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:07,279
you would say to grasp the monarchy Internitians.

1762
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:09,800
Speaker 1: The Cappadocians by far, I would say, go watch doctor

1763
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:13,279
bo Branson's lectures at If you go to his website

1764
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:16,079
doctor bo Branson or bo branson dot com, you'll see

1765
01:47:16,119 --> 01:47:18,840
there's a section called media appearances, and if you click

1766
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:22,840
media appearances. There's a five part lecture series on the

1767
01:47:23,239 --> 01:47:26,840
monarchia of the Trinity, and most of that is literally

1768
01:47:26,840 --> 01:47:29,399
directly from the Cappa Docians. If you're looking for specific

1769
01:47:29,439 --> 01:47:33,039
Cappadocian passages, you could read Basil in the Holy Spirit.

1770
01:47:33,079 --> 01:47:36,079
You could read the five theological Orations of Gregory nazian Zeus,

1771
01:47:37,039 --> 01:47:41,359
and you could read Basils against Unomius, and you'll you'll

1772
01:47:41,399 --> 01:47:46,920
notice a pretty consistent uh, you know, theology of the monarchia.

1773
01:47:46,960 --> 01:47:51,880
In fact, I think it's Oration twenty nine where Gregory

1774
01:47:51,960 --> 01:47:57,039
Nazianzews says, you know, we don't believe in uh Sabellius

1775
01:47:57,159 --> 01:47:59,960
or the most he says. He says, we worship the monarchy,

1776
01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:03,840
namely the beginning point of God, the Father. You know,

1777
01:48:03,920 --> 01:48:07,239
it's pretty sure it's Oration twenty nine. That's basically all

1778
01:48:07,279 --> 01:48:09,960
about monarchical trinitarianism.

1779
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:16,800
Speaker 4: Okay, Uh, please pray for my christ nation.

1780
01:48:16,960 --> 01:48:18,960
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm glad to hear you.

1781
01:48:19,039 --> 01:48:19,199
Speaker 2: Now.

1782
01:48:19,239 --> 01:48:21,920
Speaker 1: Were you a Roman Catholic recently or has this been

1783
01:48:22,079 --> 01:48:25,000
a longer process for you or what's happened?

1784
01:48:26,199 --> 01:48:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1785
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:29,439
Speaker 4: So I was raised a Southern Baptist, I grew up,

1786
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:31,520
I grew up in East Tennessee.

1787
01:48:31,159 --> 01:48:35,680
Speaker 1: Near I'm a Southern I'm a Southern Baptist Tennessee boy too.

1788
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:37,520
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, I agree.

1789
01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:39,640
Speaker 4: I grew up Do you know Crossville.

1790
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:43,279
Speaker 1: It's a town in East Tennessee.

1791
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:44,479
Speaker 2: Right, Yep, yep.

1792
01:48:44,520 --> 01:48:47,800
Speaker 4: I grew up there, and I was I was raised

1793
01:48:48,079 --> 01:48:51,039
Southern Baptists. Became an atheist all throughout my teenage hoods

1794
01:48:51,399 --> 01:48:54,920
teenage hood, I found Roman Catholicism, my ottinion a mass

1795
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:57,560
at Saint Thomas Aquinas, so I became a Thomas, I

1796
01:48:57,720 --> 01:49:01,479
was baptized, and I started my inquiry to wholly orthodoxy

1797
01:49:02,359 --> 01:49:07,319
officially last December, a little after Christmas. Oh, it's it's

1798
01:49:07,359 --> 01:49:09,560
the fullness of the Catholic it is the fullness of.

1799
01:49:09,560 --> 01:49:10,279
Speaker 2: The Catholic Church.

1800
01:49:10,359 --> 01:49:11,239
Speaker 5: So I'm tired of.

1801
01:49:11,239 --> 01:49:15,720
Speaker 4: Pretending, you know, in fictitious institute, in a fictitious institution

1802
01:49:15,920 --> 01:49:18,039
that made it sells something that they work, you know,

1803
01:49:18,520 --> 01:49:19,399
and their Unitarians.

1804
01:49:19,399 --> 01:49:21,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, I would tell you, do you have the uh,

1805
01:49:22,199 --> 01:49:25,199
the Palmazansky book. It's it's pretty good. I overlooked this

1806
01:49:25,279 --> 01:49:28,000
book for many years, and when I finally got it

1807
01:49:28,039 --> 01:49:32,239
back around to reading it and looking at it. Orthodox

1808
01:49:32,279 --> 01:49:34,399
Dogmatics by Pomazansky is really good.

1809
01:49:36,159 --> 01:49:39,119
Speaker 4: Okay, absolutely, yeah, have a have the most last day, Jay,

1810
01:49:39,239 --> 01:49:40,279
enjoy your today.

1811
01:49:40,359 --> 01:49:43,479
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, absolutely, thank you great questions. Appreciate

1812
01:49:43,520 --> 01:49:47,920
that from the Frankish Melkite. I don't see any more

1813
01:49:48,520 --> 01:49:54,239
people in line that haven't already come on, and I

1814
01:49:54,319 --> 01:49:57,319
got to save some energy for our Catholic. But let's

1815
01:49:57,319 --> 01:50:04,600
see what his name is. His name is Chris, Chris Plants,

1816
01:50:05,800 --> 01:50:08,079
and so I just hit him up and I said, hey,

1817
01:50:08,119 --> 01:50:11,159
do you still want to go for tonight? And he

1818
01:50:11,199 --> 01:50:15,039
hasn't replied yet, but you know, if we're going to

1819
01:50:15,119 --> 01:50:17,359
do it, we'll be back here in one hour and

1820
01:50:17,399 --> 01:50:20,560
we'll have a friendly conversation with our Catholic buddy over here,

1821
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:28,159
Chris Plants Plants and otherwise, everybody have a good night.

1822
01:50:28,199 --> 01:50:30,159
How do you call in? You call in through the

1823
01:50:34,239 --> 01:50:37,520
oh I already removed the link. I removed it because

1824
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:39,199
we're about to end it. So you call in the

1825
01:50:39,239 --> 01:50:41,279
next time. We do this all the time. Anyway, everybody,

1826
01:50:41,319 --> 01:50:42,560
have a good night. I'll see here in an hour

1827
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:42,960
maybe