WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.040 You know, there has been so much focused, particularly in 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:07.400 the Senate around the stable coin issue, is that they 3 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:11.039 haven't had time to really fully comprehend, like you know, 4 00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:14.439 what is DeFi like, what are the issues related to 5 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:17.440 market structure? Why do we have this like long standing 6 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:23.239 battle over what's the security? What's a commodity? 7 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:27.359 This episode is brought to you by Treasure. Treasure makes 8 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:30.760 beautifully crafted hardware wallets that make it easy for you 9 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:34.479 to safely store your cryptocurrencies. I'm a big believer in 10 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:38.000 self custody. 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And if you 21 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:14.040 use the code thinking Crypto all one word. You can 22 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:17.200 get five percent off your purchase of a Treasure device. 23 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:19.680 So to learn more about Treasure and all their great 24 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:24.040 devices and services, visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, 25 00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:27.319 welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, 26 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:30.439 and joining me today is Kristin Smith, who's the president 27 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.000 of the Salona Policy Institute. Kristin, great to have you. 28 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:36.159 It's great to be here, Tony. 29 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:39.959 Kristin. We were talking before the recording. I've wanted to 30 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:42.879 interview for a very long time. I'm glad we're getting 31 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:45.599 around into doing this to get your perspective on everything 32 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:49.120 that's happening in DC around crypto. But let's kick it 33 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.040 off with your background, you know, tell us about where 34 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:52.879 you're from and how'd you get involved with government. 35 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:56.680 Sure, I grew up in California, and then I went 36 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:59.319 out to Washington, d C. To go to college at 37 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:03.560 George Washington University and ended up doing an internship on 38 00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:07.400 the Hill and realized I was actually into politics and 39 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:11.840 policy and stayed for about ten years. And so a 40 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:13.560 lot of what I worked on when I was on 41 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:18.199 Capitol Hill back in the early two thousands was internet policy, 42 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:22.439 we were dealing with a potential rewrite of the Telecommunications 43 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:26.439 Act and net neutrality and privacy issues and things like that, 44 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:29.560 and so I was really into the emerging Internet. This 45 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:31.599 is kind of as Web one was going to Web two, 46 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:35.479 and I found that just intellectually very interesting from a 47 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:38.800 policy perspective. And then after I left the Hill, I 48 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:42.439 went to business school and got an MBA in finance, 49 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:46.479 thinking I would sort of transition into the world of finance, 50 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:50.280 and actually the really hard time doing that. I interviewed 51 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.400 at all these different investment banks and I basically got 52 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:59.280 no job offers. And so through this process though I 53 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:04.319 stumbled in to bitcoin and blockchain. Nobody called it crypto 54 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:08.560 back then, and I became very interested in that because 55 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:12.039 it seemed to be kind of an intersection of both 56 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:16.639 the Internet policy work I had done in Washington with finance, 57 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:18.680 and it seemed to be sort of the next iteration 58 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:23.319 of the Internet. And so yeah, so that led me 59 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:26.879 to the Blockchain Association and now to Salanta Policy Institute. 60 00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:30.719 It's so amazing that you were part of the Internet 61 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:34.360 eraror in kind of you know, trying to get policy 62 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.080 and get things going for the Internet, and now you 63 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:40.199 ended up in crypto and for this next layer on 64 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:42.840 top of the Internet. Do you see any similarities in 65 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:47.159 some of the political legislative things you were doing back 66 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:48.400 then to what's happening now. 67 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:52.400 I mean yes and no. I would think some of 68 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:57.919 the similarities include members of Congress have a very low 69 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:00.560 education level when it comes to crypto, so it used 70 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:03.680 to be that same way for the Internet. I remembered 71 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:06.360 when I was working for a senator and I was 72 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:09.159 trying to explain to her what an application was and 73 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:12.240 what this YouTube thing is and what Facebook was, and 74 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:15.000 she had no idea because she was on her phone 75 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.160 all day long and on her emails all day long. 76 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:19.079 But that was kind of the extent of her interaction 77 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:23.079 with the Internet. So you know, it's it's similar with crypto, 78 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:27.560 right like most members of Congress aren't, aren't, you know, 79 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:31.040 using stable coins to pay for something or you know, 80 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:34.480 borrowing something in the defray protocol or you know, they're 81 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:37.399 not doing that kind of stuff, So so you it 82 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:40.959 requires a lot of imagination. So I think that is similar. 83 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:45.759 I think what's actually very different is there genuinely was 84 00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:51.000 this sort of sense that the Internet, at least among 85 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.759 people in government there's this sense that the Internet was 86 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.399 something special and that we needed to sort of preserve 87 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:00.800 and protect and let it flourish. You know. This again 88 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:03.519 was the early two thousands before some of the issues 89 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:07.560 with big tech, because there wasn't big tech yet had emerged, 90 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:11.959 and we've never really seen that with crypto. We are 91 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:15.199 seeing it with AI. Interestingly, I think there is some 92 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:17.720 language in the Reconciliation Bill right now that has a 93 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:22.000 moratorium on any sort of AI regulation for a period 94 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:25.600 of time. But crypto was always sort of treated differently, 95 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:27.480 and I think a lot of it has to do 96 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:30.079 with the fact that it can look and feel like money, 97 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.759 and money is like so important to so many different 98 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:36.319 different things and so so. Yeah. So, but I have 99 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:39.959 been able, I think, to use some of the knowledge 100 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:42.399 that I gained early on in my career to try 101 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:44.680 to figure out how to apply that to this industry 102 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:49.519 going forward. And we've had some success. So none out 103 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:52.360 of the woods yet, but we're definitely making progress. 104 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.759 Yeah, and obviously kudos to you and you know your 105 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.240 time at the Blockchain Association. I think we wouldn't be 106 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:01.399 at the place we're at now with more members of 107 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:04.720 Congress educated and legislation and all these things moving forward. 108 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:07.279 And I think Christian, you got a book to write 109 00:06:07.319 --> 00:06:12.079 here because you've seen these two major technological innovations which 110 00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:16.639 obviously changing the world, and to have that Internet from 111 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:19.240 the Internet earon and how crypto and blockchain. I mean, 112 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:21.920 I'm sure a book has to be in the works 113 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:22.399 at some point. 114 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.240 It's it's definitely not a book. It's it's a sitcom. 115 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:29.680 It's the Silicon Valley meets Zeep like all matched into one. 116 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:33.560 And it's uh, there's a lot of hilarious chapters to it, 117 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:36.199 but but interesting stories I think at the same time. 118 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:39.480 But but no, it feels like more like a comedy. 119 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:43.680 There there are moments where we move forward, we move backwards, 120 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:47.480 and and the characters both in government and within the 121 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:50.759 industry I think are amazing. But yes, it's been a 122 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:51.759 very interesting story. 123 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:56.319 You know, you brought up the idea of this technology 124 00:06:56.519 --> 00:07:01.560 not being very accepted initially because of the disruption of 125 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:05.279 money and currency and the movement of value. And it's 126 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:08.160 you know, in our minds and the way we've grown 127 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.959 up in the fabric of society, we've accepted money to 128 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:13.240 be a certain way or the exchange of value to 129 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:15.879 be a certain way. And while the Internet changed the 130 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:19.879 way we did communication and transacted, that wasn't so much 131 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:22.480 of it had disruptions, but not so much of a 132 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:26.360 departure from the control that governments have with currency. And 133 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:29.480 that's kind of why you're seeing this heavy attack on 134 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.319 crypto or used to be that way. 135 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:34.839 Yeah, well, you know, currencies are very much the business 136 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:37.720 of governments, right, And I mean you look at the 137 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:42.560 US dollar and all of the you know, sort of 138 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:46.560 thinking that goes into how to control those money supplies, 139 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:49.560 et cetera. And then you look at the regulation that 140 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:53.959 goes around the intermediaries in this space, and this is 141 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:58.199 this is very much you know, traditionally like the government's business. 142 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:00.759 Where the government hasn't at least in you know, in states, 143 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:04.079 like they haven't been the source of information, right, whereas 144 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.600 you know, some country where you know the government you know, 145 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:10.040 is controlling all of the information might have been much 146 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:13.000 more threatened by the Internet than than the US government. 147 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:16.920 You know. Yeah, money, money is record coword to what 148 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:19.279 we do or what the government does, I should say, 149 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:23.560 And so yeah, I think there's been a lot of 150 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:27.279 concern that you can move very large amounts of money 151 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:31.120 very quickly in a way that you know, doesn't require 152 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:34.720 any sort of government intermediary has been a very, I think, 153 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.639 sort of scary thing, and there have been different chapters 154 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:40.360 of it over time, and I think where we are 155 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:44.039 right now, we've landed in like a pretty good spot. 156 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:46.440 I mean, I think the progress we've seen with stable 157 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:49.639 coin legislation shows that, you know, this is not a 158 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:52.240 technology that's threatening to the dollar. It's now something that 159 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:55.519 can enhance and support the dollar and help us help 160 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:58.039 the US export the dollar all over the world. And 161 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:02.159 so I think that is you know, obviously like a huge, 162 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:06.279 a huge shift, and you know, as we get into 163 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.120 other parts of crypto, I think, you know, it's interesting 164 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:12.840 there's been a pretty big focus on stable coin legislation 165 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:15.080 this year, and I was talking with one of our 166 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:20.279 lobby and consultants this morning, and there's a really deep 167 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:23.600 understanding of how stable coins work, and there's not as 168 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:26.320 much of a deep understanding anymore about how DeFi and 169 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.600 some of the other elements work. So we almost have 170 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:31.320 to go back and do that re education again because 171 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:34.279 there's been so much turnover with staff. We've got a 172 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:37.919 lot of younger members who have entered the conversation, and 173 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:40.639 so it's you know, it's a never ending process here 174 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:45.559 of trying to get Congress and regulators to keep up 175 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:48.639 with where crypto is at. But we do make progress, 176 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:51.679 and you know, I think it's listen, we don't want 177 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:54.120 the government to move so quickly that they do it wrong, right, 178 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:57.519 and so it's important to have that understanding before committing 179 00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:00.960 to policies that are going to impact innovation here for 180 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:01.759 decades to come. 181 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:05.279 On the note of stable coins, I mean, the Genius 182 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:08.039 Act getting passed in the Senate, there seems to be 183 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:11.639 not just from a technology or payment standpoint, but a 184 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:16.799 geopolitical urgency here, because if you have US dollar back 185 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:18.960 stable coins, like you said, it helps the US dollar. 186 00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:22.799 Any stable coin issues, it seems, according to the legislation, 187 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:25.960 will have to back their reserves with US treasuries. 188 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:28.960 Yeah, I mean that's huge, right. I mean, I think 189 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.840 I haven't seen the number just lately, but as of 190 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:34.399 a couple of months ago, you know, Tether I think 191 00:10:34.519 --> 00:10:38.279 was the thirteenth or fourteenth largest purchaser of treasuries, which 192 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.399 is pretty crazy if you think about it, and you know, 193 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:45.879 especially at a time Wren, you know, we've seen interest 194 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:49.159 rates going up in the in the treasury market, and 195 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:52.799 we see that, you know, there's not as much interest 196 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:54.919 from other countries around the globe, like we need to 197 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.960 backfill that somewhere, and so this seems like a really 198 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.679 natural place. And then I do think there are you know, 199 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:05.320 individuals and countries around the world that are far less 200 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.320 you know, their currencies are far less stable than we 201 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:11.080 have here, and they would gladly want to hold their 202 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:16.559 their savings and their money in US dollar back stable 203 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.000 coin because because it holds its value and they know 204 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:22.519 that it's strong. And so it turns out that this 205 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:25.759 is this is a really really great way to promote 206 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:29.039 the dollar and not one that is competitive with the dollar. 207 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:33.320 And we're seeing signals from different companies across the US 208 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:37.759 Airbnb and Uber and so for they're talking about integrating 209 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:41.120 stable coin payments. So it seems everybody sees the direction 210 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:44.360 to puckets heading and they're skating towards it. Banks are 211 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:46.159 like Bank of America, they're saying they're going to launch 212 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:49.519 your own stable coin. There's rumors of a joint stable 213 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:52.000 coin from all the major banks. So do you think 214 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.720 once this legislation gets signed into law. We're going to 215 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:56.000 see a burst of innovation. 216 00:11:57.159 --> 00:11:58.879 I think we are. I think we're going to see 217 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:01.480 a lot of adopt I think when we look at 218 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:07.759 you know, traditional companies or traditional financial institutions, they've been 219 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:13.759 very hesitant in engaging in anything that touches crypto rails 220 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:17.159 because the signal that the government was sending is don't 221 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:21.840 go here, this isn't welcome. And to have that regulatory 222 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:24.480 framework and the rules of the road are sort of 223 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:27.600 exactly what they need in order to come in. And 224 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:31.039 if you think about you know, I think the US 225 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:34.440 user experience on payments is not that bad, right, Like 226 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:36.960 we can all pay for what we want. We can 227 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.000 you know, send money via Venmo. It feels like we've 228 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:42.759 received it. But when you get underneath, like there's a 229 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:46.000 lot of inefficiencies there, it takes a lot of time. 230 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:49.279 And so if we could move to a payment system 231 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.200 that is available, you know, twenty four hours a day, 232 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:55.279 seven days a week, you do very teeny tiny amounts 233 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:59.200 or very large amounts Like these are improvements that I 234 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.759 think people will be to build new business models around, 235 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:05.559 or just lower the cost of what it takes to 236 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:09.120 do business and engage in payments with customers. I mean, 237 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.519 it's it's very expensive to do if you're using credit 238 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:14.600 cards and things like that today. So yeah, so I 239 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:17.159 think I think we're I mean, I think that's probably 240 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:19.639 the reason that I mean, I'm not a financial analyst, 241 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:21.679 but if you look at those the run up and 242 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.799 price of the Circle Stock Sensor IPO, I mean, there's 243 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:27.320 a lot of people that a lot of investors that 244 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:30.360 I think are looking to be a part of where 245 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:34.000 the future is going. And and and stable coins I 246 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:35.639 think are clearly going to be a part of that. 247 00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:38.840 Oh absolutely. And you know, I often talk about on 248 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:43.039 the podcast the implications of micro payments and because of 249 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.840 the instant settlement and whether it be web monetization being disrupted, 250 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.440 paying your toll or just simple things with a top 251 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:53.600 of a button and settle instantly and there's no lag 252 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:55.799 and there's no high fees. I mean, it would just 253 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.600 open up so many benefits and opportunities. 254 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.120 Yeah, and there's you know, kind of this concept that 255 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:06.120 people in the Slana ecosystem talk about of payment finance, 256 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:10.759 and it's it's the payment themselves, but it's also when 257 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.039 there is a lack of time, you know, how can 258 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.720 I monetize my accounts receivable, or if I'm a creator 259 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:18.759 and I know that this video is going to get 260 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:23.600 so many views, you can you know, take advantage of 261 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:26.720 receiving the benefit of that on the front end, because 262 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:29.759 some day else will want to buy, you know, make 263 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:31.960 that trade. And so I think there's a lot that 264 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:36.919 opens up for every day individuals that is far outside 265 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:38.840 of you know, kind of what we see to stable 266 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:41.080 coins being used for today in terms of like trading 267 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.799 and things like that. So a lot of excitement on 268 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:44.320 the horizon. 269 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:48.240 Absolutely tell us a bit about the Salona Policy Institute 270 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:49.159 and what you guys are doing. 271 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:54.120 Yeah, so Salona Policy Institute is Our CEO is Miller 272 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:56.480 White hel Slovine, who I used to be the CEO 273 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.240 of DeFi Education Fund. The fun part about that is 274 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:03.080 I hired are several years ago, shortly after he graduated 275 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:05.960 from college at the Blockchain Association, and now he's hired me. 276 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:08.919 So I knew, I knew I'd be working for him someday, 277 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:12.840 and then that day has come. But we have there's 278 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:15.120 six of us. That's a very small team, but we 279 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.480 have a lot of resources to work with the top 280 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.559 lobbying firms the top law firms, the top public affairs 281 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:28.559 firms in Washington to make sure that we're advancing the 282 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:32.120 goals of the Solana ecosystem, Like we want the policies 283 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:36.519 that are being created to have you know, Solona have 284 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:39.320 been considered in the making of those policies. I think 285 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:44.240 still today. You know, most policy makers in Washington they 286 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:47.000 all know Bitcoin. Now they've got that, they know there's 287 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:50.480 these other cryptocurrencies out there. But what we really want 288 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:53.600 to do is tell the story of Solana and explain 289 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:56.159 the different things that are building in that ecosystem and 290 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.440 make sure that it isn't disadvantage in any way in 291 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:02.639 any of the policies that are crafted going forward. 292 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:06.759 Yeah, that's great, it seems you know, at one point 293 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:08.519 I was talking to someone and they're like, it looks 294 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:10.480 like the work is done. You know, we got legislation 295 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.240 in place, it looks like things going to open up. 296 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:14.519 But we still got to keep the education and the 297 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:18.600 advocacy going right because there's new members, there's new forms 298 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.679 of technology being innovated in this asset class. So it's 299 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.879 a continuing journey and work that has to be done here. 300 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.399 Yeah, I don't think the work is done and we 301 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.600 can get deeper into some of the policy issues. But 302 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:35.360 I think I think stable coin is obviously very close 303 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.600 and we should get that across the finish line soon. 304 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:42.440 But you know, the Senate Banking Committee just recently issued 305 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:48.200 principles on market structure. That is very different than the House, 306 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:52.480 which is you know, passing legislative text on the House floor, right, Like, 307 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.320 those are very different places in the process. And I 308 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.639 think that you know there has been so much focused 309 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:03.440 particularly in the Senate around the stable coin issue, is 310 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.319 is that they haven't had time to really fully comprehend 311 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.960 like you know, what is DeFi like, what are the 312 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.640 issues related to market structure? Why do we have this 313 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:15.880 like long standing battle over what's the security? What's a commodity? 314 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.599 I think there are a lot of really complex issues 315 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:20.960 that they need to unpack there, and that's going to 316 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.640 take time and and you know, you can't force that. 317 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:29.480 You can help facilitate that, but you know, people, you know, 318 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:34.799 policymakers in the Senate, they can't do everything simultaneously, like 319 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:39.240 they can you know, only focus on so much at once. 320 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:42.759 And the Senate traditionally really really likes to put their 321 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.759 their fingerprints on legislation and so they're not going to 322 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.839 blindly take what the house comes over to them. So 323 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:50.480 I think there's quite a bit more work to do. 324 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:52.960 Oh yeah, and the market structure, like you said, it's 325 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.319 much more complex. There so many aspects of this asset 326 00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:01.480 clause right, staking, DeFi, NTS, tokenization, there's just so many things, 327 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:04.279 and you know, that's kind of the meat and potatoes. 328 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.279 Almost seems like stable coins are an easy thing. It's 329 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:08.720 like not really complex. 330 00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:12.119 Yeah, yeah, no, stable coins are about as simple as 331 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:12.839 it gets. 332 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:17.799 Now. I read that recently the Salona Policy Institute, phantom 333 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:22.480 Orca and super States submitted a compliant tokenized securities framework 334 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:24.599 to the SEC. I'll tell a little bit about that. 335 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.799 Yeah. Well, well, first of all, the SEC is a 336 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:31.519 great place to be these days, and you know, for 337 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:35.599 the last four years under Gary Gensler, you know, we 338 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.240 stayed as far away from it as we could. My 339 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.640 very first meeting with Gary Gunsler when I was at 340 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:47.680 the Blockchain Association, he essentially accused my entire membership of 341 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:51.000 the Blockchain Association, which at the time was about forty companies, 342 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:56.160 of violating securities laws and you know, not even giving 343 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.559 us the benefit of the doubt. This SEC is completely 344 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.119 different and we have the SEC's Crypto Task Force that 345 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:08.799 fled by Commissioner Hester Purse. It is staffed with people 346 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:13.319 throughout the Commission with expertise in different areas, and they 347 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:18.079 have been very very thoughtful and focused on first getting 348 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.440 all the old policies off the books right like they 349 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:23.240 stopped the litigation, they pulled back the role makings that 350 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.079 were open. They sort of cleaned the slates, and now 351 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:29.880 they're starting to put out guidance on specific areas about 352 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:34.160 what's not a security. But one area that they've expressed 353 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:39.359 interested and is the tokenization of securities. And they held 354 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:45.039 an entire round table at the SEC and sought input 355 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:51.519 from the industry and they're thinking very very deeply about 356 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:55.279 what if anything needs to change within the regulatory regime 357 00:19:56.119 --> 00:20:01.400 to make it easier for open public blockchain like Solana 358 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:04.240 or any other blockchain you know, to be sort of 359 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:08.440 the rails by which you issue and trade securities. And 360 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:11.519 so this is this is very exciting. I think I 361 00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:16.160 last numbers I saw that it's increased since since last month. 362 00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:20.599 It was about twenty billion dollars worth of real world 363 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:25.880 assets including securities that you know, are issued on public blockchains, 364 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.880 and I saw a report that mckenzy has estimated that 365 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.279 number to path to trillion in the next five years. 366 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:34.920 So I think there's a tremendous amount of growth here. 367 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.160 And some of the benefits are like stable coins, you 368 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:43.559 have a speed issue in that you can instantly settle 369 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:46.440 these things. You could potentially trade them twenty four hours 370 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.759 a day, seven days a week. You know, there are 371 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:54.119 those types of benefits just efficiencies, cost benefits, et cetera. 372 00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:57.359 But then there's some other benefits that if you bring 373 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:01.200 down the cost of doing this, that means opening up 374 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.160 the capital markets to smaller and smaller companies becomes available. 375 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:07.920 So you don't have to be you know, worth a 376 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.519 billion dollars to go I p O. You can you know, 377 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.400 be a small business and be able to access the 378 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.599 capital markets. You can also, you know, due to the 379 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:22.599 composable nature of blockchains, you know, maybe use your securities 380 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.400 as collateral in a totally separate system, you know, for 381 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.400 something else. Right whereas today, yeah, I can go to 382 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.319 Merrill Lynch and get a loan from them, but it's 383 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:36.559 not doesn't transfer to you know, other companies and things 384 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:38.200 like that. So I think I think there's a lot 385 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.279 of innovation that could open up there. And I think, 386 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.759 you know, the United States has traditionally, like been known 387 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:47.440 for having the best capital markets in the world, and 388 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:51.319 I think that this will bring us into the next, 389 00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:55.519 you know, sort of generation of capital markets and allow 390 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:59.079 the US to be the home and the leader for 391 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:02.000 for decades and gates to come. And so I think 392 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:04.160 it's super exciting and it's actually one of the reasons 393 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.240 I wanted to come to Salana Policy Institute and have 394 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:10.279 more of a focuser as opposed to working with the 395 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:11.400 entire industry. 396 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:14.079 Yeah, and on that note, Solana has been getting a 397 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.880 lot of adoption with folks tognizing whether it be treasuries 398 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:21.559 or funds or even just the retail aspect of NFTs 399 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.359 and different things. So that's really great. And on the 400 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.160 note of the SEC, I mean, it's like a breath 401 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:26.799