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Speaker 4: You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking
Speaker 4: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 4: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 4: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 4: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 4: host journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 3: Good Evening. Daddy's Little Secret, A Daughter's quest to solve
Speaker 3: her father's brutal murder is the poignant true crime story
Speaker 3: about a daughter who, upon her father's murder, learns of
Speaker 3: his secret double life. She had looked the other way
Speaker 3: about other hidden facets of his life, deadly secrets that
Speaker 3: could help his killer escape the death penalty should she
Speaker 3: come forward. An inside look at the complex and fascinating
Speaker 3: psyche of a father who shared and an uncommon bond
Speaker 3: with his daughter. Denise had spent years hiding deadly secrets
Speaker 3: about her enigmatic father. Wesley Wallace West was a trusted
Speaker 3: security guard of the Ritz Carlton Palm Beach. He was
Speaker 3: supposed to protect those who found themselves in his care.
Speaker 3: But a closer look into his brutal murder revealed the
Speaker 3: split personality, one that his daughter may have seen but
Speaker 3: tried to ignore. However, detectives assigned to the case persuaded
Speaker 3: her to sist them in the capture of her father's killer.
Speaker 3: The trail would lead from the glitz of Palm Beach
Speaker 3: to the murky streets of Dixie Highway and end in
Speaker 3: the court room, where her father's secret life and his
Speaker 3: dangerous mension for sex slaves would be revealed. The book
Speaker 3: that were featuring this evening is Daddy's lif Little Secret,
Speaker 3: A Daughter's Quest to solve a father's brutal murder, with
Speaker 3: my special guest author Denise Wallace. Welcome to the program,
Speaker 3: and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview.
Speaker 3: Denise Wallace, Thank you for having me on. Dan thank
Speaker 3: you very much. Very incredible book, and let's get right
Speaker 3: to this incredible story because we have a lot to cover.
Speaker 3: You open this book with the crime itself and you
Speaker 3: talk about Lake Worth where this occurred. Close to famous
Speaker 3: Palm Beach, you say, but not nearly as pricey and
Speaker 3: the Lake Osborne apartments, so let's talk about this little
Speaker 3: neighborhood lake Worth. Maybe could describe it before we talk
Speaker 3: about what mister and missus Mancini notice their next door
Speaker 3: neighbors in apartment near two or nine your father's apartment.
Speaker 3: Before that, tell us a little bit about Lake Worth
Speaker 3: and Palm Beach before we talk about what the Mancini's
Speaker 3: discovered that one day.
Speaker 2: Okay, lake Worth is a mixed blue collar and white
Speaker 2: collar town. It's known for al art galleries and antique
Speaker 2: shops and theaters. Gets close enough to Palm Beach where
Speaker 2: you can go and tour it, but it's not on
Speaker 2: the water. And there was a famous murderer that was
Speaker 2: born there, the Texas Tower Sniper who I mentioned in
Speaker 2: the book as well towards the beginning, who killed seventeen people,
Speaker 2: I believe, including his wife and mother and several students
Speaker 2: at the university.
Speaker 3: So you talk about the the neighbors, the mister and
Speaker 3: missus Mancini, and you talk about what they found and
Speaker 3: their relationship, how long they had been in the building,
Speaker 3: and how long you're fall there had been at the
Speaker 3: Lake Osborne apartment. So tell us about a little bit
Speaker 3: about the relationship and these neighbors and what they find
Speaker 3: that day.
Speaker 2: Okay, the Mansinis were an elderly couple. My father lived.
Speaker 2: He had just only moved there a month before. But
Speaker 2: they were living in a senior community in Lake Worth,
Speaker 2: and the Mancinies had been there, I believe nine years,
Speaker 2: and my father had just moved in and they'd gotten
Speaker 2: to know him, you know a little bit, his acquaintances.
Speaker 2: They'd see him on the path on the stairs, and
Speaker 2: my father was very, very talkative, very wastress. And they
Speaker 2: knew that he had a grandchild and a daughter out
Speaker 2: in California, and you know that he worked at Riz
Speaker 2: Carlton Pond Beach that they didn't They didn't really know
Speaker 2: much more about him.
Speaker 3: Now you talk about how they saw that his notice
Speaker 3: that his door was open one day and so they
Speaker 3: just went in to check on him. What did they
Speaker 3: find and what was their reaction? What did they find
Speaker 3: that day and what did they do?
Speaker 2: Well, Rosemanssini, the woman had actually overheard the night before
Speaker 2: some banging and she'd also heard my father yell at
Speaker 2: someone to get out of the apartment, and she had
Speaker 2: broken up her husband Frank and said should we call
Speaker 2: the police? And he said no, you know, it's none
Speaker 2: of our business. And so the following morning, when Frank
Speaker 2: finally left the apartment, that afternoon, he walked by my
Speaker 2: dad's apartment and the door was cracked open, and he recalled,
Speaker 2: you know, the disturbance from the night before, and so
Speaker 2: he pushed open the door to check on him, and
Speaker 2: he saw my father lying on his back with blood
Speaker 2: all around his head in the dining room, and he
Speaker 2: went back to his apartment, called nine one one.
Speaker 3: About the officers Reynolds and Walsh. They show up. They
Speaker 3: have this report from these neighbors, so they're not sure
Speaker 3: if the perpetrator is still there, so they do the
Speaker 3: cautionary method of going through and checking if anyone's still there.
Speaker 3: What do they find initially? You talk about all the
Speaker 3: things that they do see initially. What do they see
Speaker 3: as they come into this as it were a crime scene, Well.
Speaker 2: The crime scene was pretty scattered throughout the apartment. It
Speaker 2: was a small apartment. I had actually never seen it
Speaker 2: because I was living in California and my dad had
Speaker 2: only been there a month. It was just a one
Speaker 2: bedroom apartment. But when they came in, you could they
Speaker 2: could see my father's body on the floor of the
Speaker 2: dining room, the carpet was wet. The faucet was still
Speaker 2: running in the bathtub from the bathroom, so that the
Speaker 2: water the bathtub had overflowed down the hall and into
Speaker 2: the dining room. Upon further inspection, they found blood in
Speaker 2: the kitchen counter. The cabinets in the kitchen were opened,
Speaker 2: the bleach was out, the clorox bottle was actually floating
Speaker 2: in the tub, along with a gold lamp base, and
Speaker 2: the top sheet of the bed and the pellowcases and
Speaker 2: the pillows, and then when they went into the bedroom
Speaker 2: that was an absolute mess. There was obviously a violent
Speaker 2: scruggle struggle there had occurred because the door jam was
Speaker 2: broken and the closet door was pushed in. There was
Speaker 2: blood on a shirt hanging in the closet.
Speaker 3: There was.
Speaker 2: Quite a bit of blood on the bed. The fitted
Speaker 2: sheet was still on the bed, and the lamp base
Speaker 2: had been you know, pulled out of the wall, and
Speaker 2: the court had been cut in half. So what the
Speaker 2: detectives assumed later was that the light had gone off
Speaker 2: in the room and so that the killer didn't realize
Speaker 2: fitted sheet was still on the bed, it was bloody,
Speaker 2: and so he just stripped the top sheet off and
Speaker 2: put it in the in the water in the bathtub
Speaker 2: and put bleach in there. But it didn't really do
Speaker 2: a lot of good because the top sheet or the
Speaker 2: fish sheet was still on the bed. And there are
Speaker 2: coins all over the room. You know, things have been
Speaker 2: knocked over, VCR and two VCRs in a stereo were missing,
Speaker 2: that the speakers had been left behind from the stereo.
Speaker 3: You also talk about something even more valuable stolen that
Speaker 3: they notice, maybe not initially, but they noticed missing.
Speaker 2: Well, his watch was gone, they noticed later, said the
Speaker 2: tan line. Know he's living in Florida where it's quite
Speaker 2: hot and sunny, so quite a tan line where the
Speaker 2: watch used to be. My dad always wore that gold watch.
Speaker 2: He'd had it, you know since as long as I
Speaker 2: can remember.
Speaker 3: And it was gone, was gone, yes, And Akira ninety
Speaker 3: Kira right. You talk about the homicide detectives that are
Speaker 3: crucial to this story too, coming on the scene here
Speaker 3: and being involved initially, Steve Venetucci and Daniel Boland, and
Speaker 3: you talk about them taking over this case here initially.
Speaker 3: You talk about Venetucci at the crime scene picking up
Speaker 3: a photo album. Tell us a little bit about this
Speaker 3: photo album and what he finds and again what does
Speaker 3: this lead to?
Speaker 2: Well, my dad had always been a big picture taker.
Speaker 2: He had taken me to Disneyland and my daughter. I
Speaker 2: have an older daughter. He take it, you know, many
Speaker 2: times to Disneyland and took him, you know, dozens of photos.
Speaker 2: So he had to get photo albums with hundreds of
Speaker 2: photos in there of us and a birthday card that
Speaker 2: I had sent him, at least one was in the
Speaker 2: back of the photo album and they can see that,
Speaker 2: you know, I'd written happy for they. Dad loved any
Speaker 2: so they knew that I was around, that he had
Speaker 2: a daughter, and that they were going to have to
Speaker 2: notify me of this murder. But they when they found
Speaker 2: out I was in California, they didn't want to do
Speaker 2: it over the phone. They really wanted it to be
Speaker 2: done in person because they figure the whole story would
Speaker 2: be quite traumatic for me.
Speaker 3: And it was you talk about too initially the stabbing
Speaker 3: inside this senior complex. You talk about a paper called
Speaker 3: The Coastal Observer. What was the reaction. How frightened were
Speaker 3: the neighbors about this? How big a deal was this?
Speaker 2: Well, very because if you can imagine, they were all
Speaker 2: elderly neighbors, and they were used to the ambulance showing
Speaker 2: up probably weekly in the complex, you know, for respiratory
Speaker 2: failure or heart attacks, but not murder. And it was
Speaker 2: normally a quiet town and a quiet community, and so
Speaker 2: they were, you know, quite scared heard and they had
Speaker 2: you know, neighborhood watch meetings after that, and you know,
Speaker 2: would keep their blind shut and call the police to
Speaker 2: make rounds more often. So it shook up the community
Speaker 2: quite a bit.
Speaker 3: You talk about your father, Wes Wallace at that time,
Speaker 3: he's six foot, two hundred and fifty pounds and he
Speaker 3: loved to eat. And there was some investigation right away
Speaker 3: that there was some talk of that he had went
Speaker 3: to a church to ask a twenty two year old
Speaker 3: male who had been sleeping in the church if he
Speaker 3: wanted to a place to stay. Tell us a little
Speaker 3: bit about what police find initially before they contact you
Speaker 3: and give you the horrible news. How do they proceed
Speaker 3: with the investigation to find out who may have done this?
Speaker 3: How do they do that?
Speaker 2: Well, they figured that it was probably a man because
Speaker 2: there was a struggle on the bed, there was blood
Speaker 2: on the bed. My father had quite a large collection
Speaker 2: of homosexual pornography in the closet, which I had never seen.
Speaker 2: I wasn't aware of it, and they figured it was
Speaker 2: it was probably a stranger or a lover, but it
Speaker 2: was probably a man they were looking for. And when
Speaker 2: they were when they started questioning witnesses, you know, his
Speaker 2: co workers and people that knew him, started to come
Speaker 2: out a little bit about his lifestyle. Most most people
Speaker 2: on the surface didn't know about a sexuality, but some did,
Speaker 2: and so that didn't eventually come out.
Speaker 3: You talk about later about the content of that pornography.
Speaker 3: What did the police find out in terms of any
Speaker 3: clues in terms of the content of the pornography was
Speaker 3: the nature of the pornography itself.
Speaker 2: The ones in the closet, there are about one hundred videos,
Speaker 2: and quite a few of them had a master slave theme.
Speaker 2: And when they went to the Triple X video store
Speaker 2: where he had bought the videos, the man behind the
Speaker 2: counter preferred that, yes, he liked the slave and the
Speaker 2: master themes. Where there was you know, a man tied
Speaker 2: up so forth. So, and they also found some s
Speaker 2: and m gear I believe in his apartment.
Speaker 3: Right now. They also questioned everybody as they as they
Speaker 3: did their due diligence. They contacted a friend that goes
Speaker 3: through this entire story is his friend named Bill. And
Speaker 3: again you say that they deduced pretty early on based
Speaker 3: on the pornography and talking to some people. But they
Speaker 3: do question people about whether there's he's was violence. They
Speaker 3: pursue all kinds of possibilities, don't they. So tell us
Speaker 3: a little bit about some of the interviews they have
Speaker 3: and what somebody like Bill had to say about your father.
Speaker 2: Bill is someone that I had grown up knowing as
Speaker 2: a child. He had quite a nice house back in Greensboro,
Speaker 2: North Carolina, where my dad was from and where I
Speaker 2: was born. He was a clothing designer and he actually
Speaker 2: had mannequins with his in the curved playglass windows of
Speaker 2: his home. He was quite eccentric. The place is very
Speaker 2: ornately decorated with brass and gothic themes. Bill had told
Speaker 2: him that he'd probably known him twenty years and that
Speaker 2: he'd met him at a gay bar, and they used
Speaker 2: to host dinner for each other quite a bit. They
Speaker 2: were close friends, but he'd never known of him to
Speaker 2: be violent. He was quite shocked by his murder.
Speaker 3: They go on to interview every employee at the Rich Carlton.
Speaker 3: They have end up going and interviewing people in Greensboro,
Speaker 3: where he lived previous to the Osborne apartments. Tell us
Speaker 3: what they find out overall from talking to employees, What
Speaker 3: is the picture that they have in their mind before
Speaker 3: they even speak to you of who your father is
Speaker 3: and what may have led at least a factor in
Speaker 3: his death.
Speaker 2: Well, they first began speaking to the employees he worked
Speaker 2: with at the Risk Carlton, and they don't know a
Speaker 2: whole lot about my dad, just more about his personality
Speaker 2: from working with him. But when they go to North Carolina,
Speaker 2: which they went there because they had a clue of
Speaker 2: the drug dealer that had sold drugs to the killer
Speaker 2: actually moved back there to Virginia. So they actually flew
Speaker 2: to Virginia to get my father's duffel bag with his
Speaker 2: name tag on it that the drug dealer had, And
Speaker 2: while they were there, they visited his friends in Greensburg.
Speaker 2: So it's only about three hours away. And these were
Speaker 2: friends that my dad had known for twenty or twenty
Speaker 2: five years, and I knew them all as well. One
Speaker 2: of them that he'd known the longest, his best friend,
Speaker 2: confessed to the police that he knew that my father
Speaker 2: would pick up young men and that he would scold
Speaker 2: him about it, that it was dangerous. This was a
Speaker 2: highly educated man. I was a theater director at a
Speaker 2: large university in North Carolina, and he would tell my dad,
Speaker 2: you know, it's very dangerous to have these young men,
Speaker 2: you know, get in your car with you or take
Speaker 2: them back to your apartment. They can steal things, they
Speaker 2: can try and hurt you. And he said that my
Speaker 2: dad had admitted to him that he would keep two wallets,
Speaker 2: one with very little money in it and the other
Speaker 2: with his money and credit cards and driver's license. He
Speaker 2: would hide, and so when it came time to pay
Speaker 2: the young man, he would just have that wallet with
Speaker 2: very little or no money on it, so that they
Speaker 2: couldn't get any money. So the vectors kind of were
Speaker 2: forming a picture that my father was hustling the hustlers.
Speaker 3: You also talk about alcohol being a big issue in this,
Speaker 3: in your father's life and obviously in your life as well.
Speaker 3: In terms of that effect, Let's talk now about your
Speaker 3: life with your father, who your father was to you
Speaker 3: despite again as we alluded to, and here the secrets
Speaker 3: that you find out the double life that your father leads.
Speaker 3: Who was your father to you as a young girl
Speaker 3: and only child.
Speaker 2: My dad was someone who loved me more than anything.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: To me, he was a great dad. I mean, he
Speaker 2: had quite a few flaws, but I always knew I
Speaker 2: was very, very loved. He did all kinds of things
Speaker 2: with me, took me, you know, emerald mining and panning
Speaker 2: for gold and camping in the mountains, and but through
Speaker 2: a lot of those years he was a chronic alcoholic.
Speaker 2: But he would still wake up in the morning with
Speaker 2: a hangover and take me for tennis lessons or take
Speaker 2: me to movies, and so he was kind of my hero.
Speaker 2: But he could also be very dangerous. Getting in the
Speaker 2: car with him at night was very dangerous, very scary.
Speaker 2: He also had me drive at twelve one time when
Speaker 2: he was too drunk to drive, and we were in
Speaker 2: the mountains, and it was I was terrified because I
Speaker 2: didn't had to drive, and he had me sitting on
Speaker 2: pillows and I almost went off the edge of the
Speaker 2: mountain and he slammed on the on the break with
Speaker 2: his foot.
Speaker 3: So it was.
Speaker 2: It was kind of a mixed feeling that I had
Speaker 2: with him. I was quite scared to be alone with them.
Speaker 2: A lot of times, you know, they go camping alone
Speaker 2: with him without a friend because of you know how
Speaker 2: drunk he would get. But then you know, there was
Speaker 2: a great love that he had for me, and.
Speaker 3: At the time there was nothing irresponsible. Well, I mean
Speaker 3: I shouldn't say that that the drinkings irresponsible, but in
Speaker 3: terms of you didn't see any neglect and you didn't
Speaker 3: see again this pensiont for the young boys. In retrospect later,
Speaker 3: after you've given details, then you can in retrospect say,
Speaker 3: well that makes sense now. But at the time there
Speaker 3: was a dedication to you as a father, and this
Speaker 3: secret life remain secret, and you had no real idea.
Speaker 2: Now I didn't, but there were quite a few young
Speaker 2: men in his life, But to me, it was always
Speaker 2: in the context of him sponsoring these young men in
Speaker 2: AA and that's what he would tell me, and I
Speaker 2: believed it.
Speaker 3: Certainly. When there's the autopsy on your father, they find
Speaker 3: scratches on his face made with an edge of a
Speaker 3: tool and they don't know what that tool is, and
Speaker 3: also bite wounds. So tell us a little bit about
Speaker 3: what they think is going on there, or just tell
Speaker 3: us a little bit more about this autopsy and what
Speaker 3: it reveals to the police and what did he do
Speaker 3: as a response.
Speaker 2: Well, from the autopsy, they could tell exactly how he
Speaker 2: died because there was quite a bit of blood on
Speaker 2: his so they couldn't really see until he was cleaned
Speaker 2: up of the autopsy that his jugular vein was nicked
Speaker 2: with a dull steak knife. It came out later, but
Speaker 2: he wasn't his throat wasn't slit. It was just nicked,
Speaker 2: and it actually nicked and he bled out. And it
Speaker 2: was also bite marks on his wrist. And what they
Speaker 2: determined from the bite marks was that the mandibular marks
Speaker 2: I believe was the top of the teeth had bitten
Speaker 2: down harder than the bottom. And the reason for that,
Speaker 2: the medical examiner said, was that something or someone would
Speaker 2: have had to be pushing down on the killer's head
Speaker 2: for that to happen that way, where the top teeth
Speaker 2: are sinking in more than the bottom teeth, there had
Speaker 2: to be pressure on his head. So they start to wonder,
Speaker 2: you know, what exactly heard that night in the apartments,
Speaker 2: you know, and if the killer had been backed into
Speaker 2: a corner or you know, how this came about because
Speaker 2: it wasn't a violent stabbing or slicing the neck.
Speaker 3: Detectives also cite the fact that there is no forced entry,
Speaker 3: yet there's this incredible struggle in the bed and then
Speaker 3: it as the father. Your father had crawled into considerable
Speaker 3: distance to the apartment door but didn't make it. You
Speaker 3: also talk about the angle of the police pursue, and
Speaker 3: they pinet. They pursue all the angles of the pawnshop
Speaker 3: and the VCRs and the stereo and the stolen goods
Speaker 3: and the watch. So tell us what their look into
Speaker 3: the stolen goods nets them.
Speaker 2: Well, they know that the two VCRs in Sterio had
Speaker 2: been taken because of the dust outlines on the shelves,
Speaker 2: they could see that there was something there. And in
Speaker 2: the closet at the apartment they find the boxes for
Speaker 2: these items. So they have the serial numbers to put
Speaker 2: into their database, and pawn shops have to report those
Speaker 2: serial numbers, they have to enter them the database or
Speaker 2: however they do it. And so they got a hit
Speaker 2: on one of the VCRs that was pawned, and that
Speaker 2: led them to Montague, not the killer, but the drug
Speaker 2: dealer that the killer had sold the two VCRs to
Speaker 2: the bill didn't want the stereo because he's forgotten the speakers,
Speaker 2: and so that's how they find him. They fly to
Speaker 2: Virginia to retrieve the devil bag that the killer had
Speaker 2: stuffed the items in with my dad's nametag on it.
Speaker 3: Now, with that information, again, these are promising leads. There
Speaker 3: is a description from this Montague, if I can pronounce
Speaker 3: his name, right, there is a description given. So tell
Speaker 3: us what that description is, what police think that they
Speaker 3: have in terms of a lead, right.
Speaker 2: So what was interesting was that Montague was able to
Speaker 2: tell them his first name, didn't know the last name,
Speaker 2: but knew that his name was Travis, and knew that
Speaker 2: he was a scrawny, young, maybe nineteen twenty year old kid,
Speaker 2: you know, light skinned, dirty blonde hair, not very tall,
Speaker 2: and certainly not very large. So they did have that
Speaker 2: to go on once they came back to Florida.
Speaker 3: You say too that again pursuing all these leads, as
Speaker 3: I mentioned, they get an education, practical education in some
Speaker 3: of the homosexual lifestyle and the S and M subculture,
Speaker 3: And so they even go to notorious gay cruising sites
Speaker 3: like Lee's Trail and find out all the again, all
Speaker 3: the terms and I hadn't heard some of these bears
Speaker 3: and cubs and Mary's and Muscle Mary's and twinks and
Speaker 3: so this entire world that they have to explore as
Speaker 3: part of this investigation, and that still leads them nowhere,
Speaker 3: does it? Doesn't it?
Speaker 2: No, Because this was a stranger that my father had
Speaker 2: picked up one night. So there wasn't any kind of connection.
Speaker 2: It wasn't family, it wasn't a friend. Yeah, they did
Speaker 2: get quite an education because both detectives were family men
Speaker 2: and they didn't know a lot about that world. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that was quite shocking for them.
Speaker 3: You talk about when the police contact you first about
Speaker 3: your father's murder, tell our audience, as you do in
Speaker 3: the book, the very point that's scene when you actually
Speaker 3: are given all the details, tell us about that.
Speaker 2: Well, I had gone to the drug store and so
Speaker 2: I wasn't home when there was a knock on the
Speaker 2: door and the Orange County detective, the female detective, apparently
Speaker 2: came to the door to try and tell me in
Speaker 2: person what had happened. And my husband at the time
Speaker 2: was home, and so the woman left him at teletyped
Speaker 2: message it said there's been a homicide. Called Detective Boland
Speaker 2: in Palm Beach or whatever it had said with a
Speaker 2: phone number, and so when I got home, my husband,
Speaker 2: who's not very good with emotions, just handed me the notes,
Speaker 2: and so I found out by reading the note there
Speaker 2: was a homice side, and I knew right then it
Speaker 2: had to be my dad because that's the only person
Speaker 2: that was in call meach at the time. And so
Speaker 2: I called, and the miscommunication caused the Florida detective Detective
Speaker 2: Bowlin to think that I had already been told about
Speaker 2: the homicide in person, and so he says to me,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to tell you that there's you know, there's
Speaker 2: been a homicide. Your father's been murdered. Were you aware
Speaker 2: of his alternative lifestyle? And that was just too many
Speaker 2: things to take in it once I had just found
Speaker 2: out he'd been murdered when I sat down with that
Speaker 2: paper and made the call, and I had no idea
Speaker 2: about his alternative lifestyle. I had seen a couple of
Speaker 2: things that I just kind of, you know, it wasn't
Speaker 2: my business, and I just kind of put him out
Speaker 2: of my mind. And so that it was a shock
Speaker 2: I did not know, and so it was really hard.
Speaker 2: It took quite a long time for me to process
Speaker 2: both those facts.
Speaker 3: When you got the next call, how long was it
Speaker 3: later and what was the tone of that call.
Speaker 2: Well, I sleep Upalm Beach, I believe, the next day,
Speaker 2: and I called the Texas. When I arrived there, I
Speaker 2: stayed at my mother's condo. She was in China, and
Speaker 2: I stayed in Dlray Beach and they came right over.
Speaker 2: The Texas came right over about twenty five minutes later
Speaker 2: with the boat. My dad's photo albums in their arms
Speaker 2: for me to look through, and I instantly recognized them,
Speaker 2: and I left the man and we sat down at
Speaker 2: the kitchen table, and they wanted me to go through
Speaker 2: each photo and see if I recognized anyone, because they
Speaker 2: didn't have any leads, and I really didn't. We're going
Speaker 2: came to the men in the photos. I had been
Speaker 2: living in California for the past three years. I didn't
Speaker 2: know my father's new acquaintances, and so I really didn't
Speaker 2: recognize anyone. I wasn't very helpful other than to tell
Speaker 2: them that AA was a big part of my dad's life,
Speaker 2: that he had been going to two meetings a day,
Speaker 2: and that was kind of a red flag to them,
Speaker 2: I think as to where he may have been meeting
Speaker 2: people at least, you know, somewhere for them to start
Speaker 2: questioning the people. And they said to me, he's only
Speaker 2: been in this apartment for a month. Do you know
Speaker 2: her where he lived previously? And I said, yes, but
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't remember the address. I said, it's
Speaker 2: a few it was. It was a couple of miles
Speaker 2: from there. It was not that far from my mother's
Speaker 2: And they said, well, can you take us there? And
Speaker 2: that was pretty shocking for me. It was the last
Speaker 2: thing I expected them to ask, but I, you know,
Speaker 2: I said I would, and they put me in the
Speaker 2: back of their crown and we drove over to it.
Speaker 2: It was just off Atlantic Avenue in Delray Beach and
Speaker 2: they knocked on the tenant's door upstairs. My father lived
Speaker 2: in a guest house, very small guest house, and the
Speaker 2: tenant upstairs wasn't helpful. And so they turned around to
Speaker 2: me in the back seat and said where to now.
Speaker 2: And so the afternoon turned into me taking them to
Speaker 2: recovery houses that my dad had had me swing by
Speaker 2: if we'd been on the way to lunch, and where
Speaker 2: he would say, I just want to see if so
Speaker 2: and so wants to go to a five o'clock AA meeting,
Speaker 2: and that's all I knew about it. So I took
Speaker 2: him to a halfway house, a recovery house, and then
Speaker 2: they then an AA meeting hall which they had never
Speaker 2: seen before called Crossroads, I believe by the track, so
Speaker 2: they didn't know that was there, and they started to
Speaker 2: question people that you knew him.
Speaker 3: It was interesting too, you talk about a Jen Sealy
Speaker 3: at the AA and he spoke of an incident or
Speaker 3: she spoke of an incident of involving your father and
Speaker 3: something to do with you about a dancing of a
Speaker 3: dancing Can you explain this and what it indicated the police?
Speaker 3: It seemed.
Speaker 2: Well, I had I'd grown up with Chancilly and her daughter.
Speaker 2: Her daughter was a year younger than me, and he
Speaker 2: had met and so the four of us were just
Speaker 2: a daughter and I with you things to because one
Speaker 2: of my fondest memories and her disco. This was back
Speaker 2: in the late seventies, I believe, and there was a
Speaker 2: tall African American young man there dancing in bell bottoms
Speaker 2: and he was the best dancer and at the disco,
Speaker 2: I think, and my dad being very boisterous, very assertive
Speaker 2: said when will you dance with my daughter? And the
Speaker 2: young man said no and continued dancing, and my dad
Speaker 2: would not relent, and he continued to ask him to
Speaker 2: dance with me until he finally gape in. And Jane
Speaker 2: remembered that very well, and she said that you just
Speaker 2: didn't say no to my dad, that he you know,
Speaker 2: he didn't let you say no, and eventually you would
Speaker 2: give in. You know, he was a salesperson for years
Speaker 2: and he was good at that. So to the detectives,
Speaker 2: they thought someone who could possibly be very persistent, perhaps
Speaker 2: even manutulative, and was used to getting.
Speaker 3: We're going to use this Denise as an opportunity to stop,
Speaker 3: just for a second, to talk about our sponsor tonight,
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Speaker 3: join the movement. When we last left off, Denise, you
Speaker 3: talked about that police were questioning people at AA meetings
Speaker 3: at this crossroads, the one that your father would attend
Speaker 3: meetings at twice a week. You had just been given
Speaker 3: this incredible information about your father's secret life. How do
Speaker 3: police proceed with this information from the AA meetings and
Speaker 3: what do they eventually find and from who?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, he's been one of the meetings
Speaker 2: twice a day. Pardon bod these young men, and it
Speaker 2: seems unlu And when they began to question people to
Speaker 2: meet that wrecks photo h pier has empires some praise
Speaker 2: on and gets the sex slaves praise on the worst
Speaker 2: of their lives and they're down and out A or
Speaker 2: an a.
Speaker 3: M h y.
Speaker 2: As your host. Someone has to be your sponsor. You're
Speaker 2: supposed to the list that your own sponsor, ask someone yourself,
Speaker 2: someone's offer. They have ulterior motives, and so that the
Speaker 2: police were kind of getting the picture that perhaps offering
Speaker 2: to be sponsor and you know, doing risk acts with them.
Speaker 3: You talk about your signal was just a little garbled,
Speaker 3: but so we'll I'll go over what you had said.
Speaker 3: Is that you talked about that they learn the term
Speaker 3: vampire at the AA meetings, and the term vampire is
Speaker 3: for somebody that will approach someone about being a sponsor.
Speaker 3: And the rule, the unwritten rule or the rule that
Speaker 3: everyone knows is that that's not very a good idea
Speaker 3: and to be beware of that. And so that's where
Speaker 3: the term vampire comes. And you do get a picture
Speaker 3: police that this is possibly how your father may have
Speaker 3: approached somebody. So tell us what this information leads to
Speaker 3: in further in their investigation.
Speaker 2: Well, they picture of him and his character that it's
Speaker 2: not very helpful in terms of tracking down an actual
Speaker 2: lead because this particular young man, he did not find
Speaker 2: an a. He found him on the side out of
Speaker 2: the road near the Dixie Highway tracks. So when he
Speaker 2: questions people at the meetings, that doesn't really go anywhere
Speaker 2: for them. They just have, you know, in their mind,
Speaker 2: a picture of this lifestyle.
Speaker 3: Now, how is it we talked about how the police
Speaker 3: finally find out who has killed your father? Tell us
Speaker 3: how they proceed with this and in the interim, what
Speaker 3: are you doing and what are you realizing and what
Speaker 3: are you discovering?
Speaker 2: Well, I have flown back to Florida after a week.
Speaker 2: I stayed and buried my father at the funeral, you know,
Speaker 2: and helped detect us as much as I could, and
Speaker 2: then went back home. And I believe it's about five
Speaker 2: months later. Very common practice in police work happens where
Speaker 2: they will either pull over someone for traffic incident that
Speaker 2: has a warrant. In this particular case, someone who knew
Speaker 2: the killer, who was friends with the killer, had been
Speaker 2: caught fleeing, eluding flute fleeing and eluding the police. He
Speaker 2: ran out on a hotel bill and the restaurant bill
Speaker 2: at a hotel in Palm Springs, Florida, and was fleeing
Speaker 2: from police, and they caught him and put him in jail,
Speaker 2: and he gave up Travis's name in order to help himself.
Speaker 2: So that's how that came about. And then the detective
Speaker 2: called me in California and gave me the news and
Speaker 2: told me that I would be needed at the trial,
Speaker 2: that it was imperative that i'd be there, that the
Speaker 2: jury see that there was someone grieving on my father's side.
Speaker 3: Now, we talked also about deadly secrets that could help
Speaker 3: your father's killer escaped the potential death penalty should you
Speaker 3: come forward. So we talked about your life with your father.
Speaker 3: We didn't talk about your mother and your father's relationship marriage.
Speaker 3: What is it? What was it that was this deadly
Speaker 3: secret that could help your killer potentially escaped to death
Speaker 3: penalty by being of that profound importance?
Speaker 2: Tell us, well, something had happened when I was nineteen,
Speaker 2: but I really wasn't able to deal with it, and
Speaker 2: so I pushed it out of my mind. And when
Speaker 2: I was sitting through the trial, the killer's trial, I
Speaker 2: heard him testify that my father had been choking him
Speaker 2: on the bed. And I remember back when I was
Speaker 2: about seven or eight, I suppose where my father.
Speaker 3: Mother.
Speaker 2: He would drive down from Fort Burdale, Talmpano where we
Speaker 2: were living in a duplex, and choke her just about
Speaker 2: three times a week, it seemed like, because he had
Speaker 2: visitation with me Wednesdays and weekends, so on his trips
Speaker 2: down to pick me up or bring me home, he
Speaker 2: would be drunk and just knock on the door and
Speaker 2: she would answer every time, and he would choke her
Speaker 2: and she would She never once called the police. So
Speaker 2: I believed the killer that he was choking him because
Speaker 2: I'd seen that that was a pretty common scene for
Speaker 2: me to witness. And when he started to describe the
Speaker 2: scene on the bed with the choking and him having
Speaker 2: to stave my father off with this steak knife from
Speaker 2: underneath him, I started to remember what happened when I
Speaker 2: was nineteen that I had pretty much forgotten about because
Speaker 2: I couldn't do anything with the information, or I wouldn't
Speaker 2: do anything with it. I just had to put it
Speaker 2: out of my mind. One morning, it was about seven
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning, when I was nineteen, living at
Speaker 2: Prascondo and Dali Beach. I got a phone call and
Speaker 2: it was my father. He was drunk at seven in
Speaker 2: the morning and he said, Tonise, I think I killed somebody.
Speaker 2: Come pick me up. And you know I had been asleep.
Speaker 2: This is the first thing out of his mouth on
Speaker 2: the phone.
Speaker 3: And I.
Speaker 2: Hang up the phone, grabbed my car keys. I'm in
Speaker 2: a T shirt, a long T shirt with no shoes,
Speaker 2: and I jump in the car and drive over there.
Speaker 2: And it's only about a three minute drive. It's right
Speaker 2: across Feederal Highway where he had temporarily rented a trailer.
Speaker 2: And I'll never forget if it was gravel on the ground.
Speaker 2: And I drove up and my father was already waiting
Speaker 2: outside the trailer, and he immediately got in the passenger
Speaker 2: and I said, Daddy, is he okay? I just assumed
Speaker 2: it was a man. My father never hung around with women.
Speaker 2: It was always ment that, at least once he'd moved
Speaker 2: back to Florida, and I just assumed it was a man.
Speaker 2: And I said, is he okay, Daddy? And he said
Speaker 2: to me, take me to my car. It's at the
Speaker 2: repair shop on Atlantic Avenue, on Fifth Avenue in Atlantic,
Speaker 2: And I started driving, and I asked him again, is
Speaker 2: he okay? And he didn't answer me. And I didn't
Speaker 2: know what to think at that point, and so I
Speaker 2: dropped him off about five minute pair shop. And it
Speaker 2: occurred to me that I had maybe about ten minutes
Speaker 2: or so for him to pay for his car and
Speaker 2: drive back to the trailer. And what was I going
Speaker 2: to do about what I had just learned? So I
Speaker 2: drove back over to the trailer and pulled up on
Speaker 2: the gravel and parked with the car running, I think,
Speaker 2: and just I remember glancing over at the window of
Speaker 2: the trailer and just thinking, you know, the door is
Speaker 2: probably locked. I'm probably not even going to be able
Speaker 2: to get in, and if I do get in, then
Speaker 2: what you know? And I'm thinking, if the man's alive,
Speaker 2: is he going to be disoriented and think that I
Speaker 2: was the killer or you know, the aggressor and hurt me,
Speaker 2: or is he dead? And then what do I do
Speaker 2: I have to choose? Am I going to call the police?
Speaker 2: And that wasn't an option. I was so close to
Speaker 2: my dad, that was not an option, and so I
Speaker 2: couldn't deal with it. We never spoke about it. I
Speaker 2: drove home and for three weeks I watched the news
Speaker 2: and I never heard anything about a body or anyone missing,
Speaker 2: or an attack or anything. And I never asked my
Speaker 2: father about it, you know, because he had ignored me
Speaker 2: in the car, and I really didn't want to know
Speaker 2: any more about it, and I just put it out
Speaker 2: of my mind after that for all those years, say
Speaker 2: a prosecutor.
Speaker 3: You say this all came back at trial. The prosecution
Speaker 3: and the defense obviously have a much different twist on
Speaker 3: the tail of the story of innocence and guilt. You
Speaker 3: talk about the prosecutor's theory on what happened in his
Speaker 3: depiction of the events, and then the defense and you
Speaker 3: did listen to the defense argument and you say that
Speaker 3: was like a trigger to bring back memories. So tell
Speaker 3: us what the prosecution idea and theory was and how
Speaker 3: close were they to this was the death penalty a reality?
Speaker 2: The death penalty was a reality because he had stolen
Speaker 2: my father's watch. The watch was in every photo of
Speaker 2: my dad. My dad always wore that watch. And when
Speaker 2: you steal from the victim like that during a murder,
Speaker 2: it's a double felony, I believe, And it's that's that
Speaker 2: gets you the death penalty. And so it was definitely
Speaker 2: on the table. The prosecutor was very good at his job,
Speaker 2: very very canso and very theatrical, very smart, and he
Speaker 2: put on quite you know, a presentation, and you know,
Speaker 2: and he wasn't there at the killing, at the murder,
Speaker 2: none of us were. And he's you know, painted the
Speaker 2: picture of this, you know, thirsty young killer killing my
Speaker 2: father to sell his goods or drugs, which is probably
Speaker 2: in fact, I believe, I believe the killer when he
Speaker 2: said that my father was choking him on the bed
Speaker 2: and the way I described it, I'd seen it so
Speaker 2: many times with my mother, and I remembered that trailer incident,
Speaker 2: and I knew it all pieced together me in that
Speaker 2: in that moment that my father was picking up young men,
Speaker 2: and you know, I didn't even know if there were
Speaker 2: more that had gotten hurt. I had no idea, but
Speaker 2: I believed him. And I told the prosecutor about the
Speaker 2: trailer incident and he said, well, what do you want
Speaker 2: me to do? And I said, I want you to
Speaker 2: tell a jury And he said, well, I can't. It's hearsay.
Speaker 2: You weren't there. You didn't see a body? Yes we did.
Speaker 2: Did you see a body? And I said, no, I
Speaker 2: didn't see a body, And so I couldn't testify right.
Speaker 3: The idea that the defense said it was self defense.
Speaker 3: Was there any consideration like some people might, you know,
Speaker 3: despite the memories that you had to reinforce just what
Speaker 3: Travis Jones was saying by his attorney. Sometimes attorneys will
Speaker 3: say too much exagger or weave a tale that's just unbelievable.
Speaker 3: Was there aspects of what that defense attorney Mitchell Beer
Speaker 3: said that rang untrue.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's it's funny you brought that up there. The
Speaker 2: problem with the defense was and then the killing obviously
Speaker 2: was the obvious cover up of the crime that looks guilty,
Speaker 2: and it was quite the cover up you've got. You know,
Speaker 2: we're still uh didn't do a very good job. Like
Speaker 2: I said, left is she very bloody on the bed,
Speaker 2: but see it in the dark. There was blood in
Speaker 2: the light switch. They had a bit of DNA from
Speaker 2: the killer, but he wasn't I in the cist turned
Speaker 2: him in. They wouldn't have been. So that was the
Speaker 2: problem where I remember that. Mitchell Beer's the defense attorney,
Speaker 2: asked Travis, why did you put the letty sheets in
Speaker 2: the tub? And his answer was, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: know why I did that, And obviously that's a lie.
Speaker 2: That was It was very obvious to everyone in the
Speaker 2: jury that he didn't want to get caught. But I
Speaker 2: don't believe you went there to father. I believe that
Speaker 2: father was choking him and wasn't going to let go.
Speaker 3: What was the scenario that you saw that you believed.
Speaker 3: Obviously you didn't get to talk to your father about this,
Speaker 3: But what did you deduce again. You talked about you
Speaker 3: believed that Travis Jones was being choked by your father.
Speaker 3: What was the scenario we as you're talking in the book,
Speaker 3: there was investigation that there was the two wallets, which
Speaker 3: was important, and then the testimony from witnesses said, listen,
Speaker 3: he had the two wallets for this purpose. He didn't
Speaker 3: like to pay, He didn't think he wanted to pay.
Speaker 3: He would pretend he didn't have any money when he
Speaker 3: did have money. He was warned that he could be robbed.
Speaker 3: Tell us the scenario from everything that you saw, and
Speaker 3: you know, and you learned about what actually happened that night.
Speaker 2: Well, obviously I wasn't there, but the killer got on
Speaker 2: the stand and testified, which is pretty rare at a
Speaker 2: trial that they do that. I think he believed he
Speaker 2: would get off for self defense because he you know,
Speaker 2: he in his mind he was telling the truth, and
Speaker 2: I believe he was, you know, not knowing why I
Speaker 2: was trying to cover up the crime. But he described
Speaker 2: that night as my dad picking him up, walked along
Speaker 2: by the tracks and asking him if he wanted to
Speaker 2: watch some sex films, and you know, the idea was
Speaker 2: for money, and he got in the car with him
Speaker 2: and went back to his apartments, which was on the
Speaker 2: second floor, and they went immediately to the back bedroom,
Speaker 2: and you know, I believe my father performed a sex
Speaker 2: act on Travis, and then Travis wanted to get paid
Speaker 2: and leave, and my father wanted him to reciprocate, and
Speaker 2: he did not want to, and he asked for his money,
Speaker 2: and my father, you know, struggle with him on the
Speaker 2: bed and began choking him and told him that he
Speaker 2: was going to give Daddy what he wants, is what
Speaker 2: Travis had testified to. Again, we weren't there and wasn't
Speaker 2: letting up, and Travis was trying to point the knife upwards,
Speaker 2: poking him, trying to get him off of him, and
Speaker 2: my father wasn't letting go. And so he claims that,
Speaker 2: you know, he stuck him in the neck trying to
Speaker 2: get him off, and he wouldn't get off, and that
Speaker 2: he finally when he nicked him in the neck, that
Speaker 2: my father finally kind of got kind of stunned and
Speaker 2: fell to the side of it, and he did get
Speaker 2: get out from underneath him, and then my father chased
Speaker 2: him across the bedroom into the closet and Travis describes
Speaker 2: it that he threw Travis into the closet door and
Speaker 2: then then you know, then he threw him against the
Speaker 2: bedroom door, and the doorjam broke off, and you know,
Speaker 2: by that point, my father's bleeding, and so he finally,
Speaker 2: I guess he's crawling down the hallway towards the front door.
Speaker 2: And then, as Travis described on the stand, he said,
Speaker 2: and the defense attorney, so, what do you mean my
Speaker 2: froze and he said, he just froze. I guess he
Speaker 2: was unconscious and right there on the floor in the
Speaker 2: dining room, and next moved again.
Speaker 3: What did the jury and the court and the judge
Speaker 3: react to his testimony? What was the decision? How long
Speaker 3: did it take to deliberate? Was this the testimony that
Speaker 3: was the most important to this trial? Tell us about that?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a hard question to ask to answer. Which
Speaker 2: was most important in the trial. To me, it was
Speaker 2: to me the kid was telling the truth, and he
Speaker 2: was terrified, and it was apparent to me and he
Speaker 2: was crying. But again, the prosecutor was very good, put
Speaker 2: on an excellent presentation. It was very persuasive. So there's that,
Speaker 2: And I don't really recall how long the deliberation was,
Speaker 2: but I don't believe it was very long, because my
Speaker 2: husband flew back. He left before the verdict. He left
Speaker 2: and got on a plane, and now you know what,
Speaker 2: I think it was the next morning. I think I
Speaker 2: went to dinner with my mother and it was the
Speaker 2: next morning that we got the verdict and they found
Speaker 2: him guilty of manslaughter and he got ten years, but
Speaker 2: he'd already served a year and a half while awaiting trial,
Speaker 2: so he got time served for you and a half.
Speaker 3: So he.
Speaker 2: Spent eight and a half years in prison and then
Speaker 2: got released on work release for a year, which means
Speaker 2: you got to work in the day and you sleep
Speaker 2: at the prison at night. I got a letter about
Speaker 2: that when he moved into that stage.
Speaker 3: What's interesting is that when you were called to speak
Speaker 3: with the problem secutor, is that there was an offer
Speaker 3: from the defense of a fifteen year sentence, which the
Speaker 3: prosecutor suggested or recommended, that they did not accept and
Speaker 3: suggested to you, recommended to you that they go do
Speaker 3: you take this to trial or that you support him
Speaker 3: take an ant to trial.
Speaker 2: Yes, I forgot was that was very interesting because A.
Speaker 2: Travis and his attorney, they were fifteen years. The Proseeuor
Speaker 2: wanted to trial a strong case, and he advised going
Speaker 2: to trial, and so we did. And if what happens
Speaker 2: is after the trial the victims make picked an impact statement.
Speaker 2: And in my victim statement, when I stood up and spoke,
Speaker 2: I asked the judge give him treatments. I said, I
Speaker 2: think he had you know it wasn't allowed in the
Speaker 2: trial that I believe it has a drug problem, and
Speaker 2: I you know, I think he should get drugged. And
Speaker 2: because of that, instead of getting fifteen years, he got
Speaker 2: the ten years and then five years probation with drug treatments.
Speaker 2: That's how that's ended. I people ask for that, and
Speaker 2: he may have well gotten fifteen.
Speaker 3: Years, right, interesting, very interesting. The input that they have
Speaker 3: from you is very very very interesting in all of this, again,
Speaker 3: this is it's not a great question. Was this worth
Speaker 3: the looking into the secrets to find out the truth.
Speaker 3: What has this done for you to find out this?
Speaker 3: Has it been a positive or negative or a mix
Speaker 3: of both. This entire journey, this entire book, Daddy's Little Secret,
Speaker 3: everything he went, the trial, all of this tell us
Speaker 3: about the impact this has had on you. What has
Speaker 3: it done for you overall?
Speaker 2: Well, it's something that I had to do because I
Speaker 2: wasn't dealing with it. I had issues I wasn't dealing with.
Speaker 2: I believe I put in the beginning of my book
Speaker 2: inter that there was sketch of my father that I
Speaker 2: had in the closet. Apparently my oldest daughter's high school boyfriend,
Speaker 2: who's a famous artist now, had sketched this picture of
Speaker 2: my father from a photograph, and when I would come
Speaker 2: across it in the closet, I couldn't look at it,
Speaker 2: and I would just push it in the back of
Speaker 2: the closet. And I was a framed photograph. And so
Speaker 2: about a decade after this murder, I, you know, I
Speaker 2: made myself pull it out and look at it, and
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, you're not dealing with it. And
Speaker 2: you know what else was I not dealing with in
Speaker 2: my life? You know, I was tending to, you know,
Speaker 2: be in denial about things and push them out of
Speaker 2: my mind instead of dealing with them and my relationships.
Speaker 2: And I decided that I was going to have to,
Speaker 2: you know, process my feelings for him and understand him.
Speaker 2: And so I, you know, I dredged all that up order.
Speaker 2: The transcripts led through them an entirety about a lot
Speaker 2: of them, and did a lot of research, and now
Speaker 2: I feel like I finally knew him, the good and
Speaker 2: the bad, and so I you know, I have a
Speaker 2: full picture and I can face it now and move
Speaker 2: past it, certainly.
Speaker 3: I want to thank you very much Denise for coming
Speaker 3: on and talking about Daddy's Little Secret, a daughter's quest
Speaker 3: to solve for father's brutal murder. For those that might
Speaker 3: want to find out more about this, I know this
Speaker 3: is a Wild Blue Press release, tell us a little
Speaker 3: bit more about how they might contact you or find
Speaker 3: about Facebook page or Wild Blue Press. Tell us a
Speaker 3: little bit more about contact information. Well.
Speaker 2: They can certainly go to Amazon and order the book
Speaker 2: in several countries as well as the US. They can
Speaker 2: also go to Wild Bluepress dot com and order it
Speaker 2: through there. They can order it from my website, Denise
Speaker 2: Wallace author dot com. It's available on Kindle, Prince ebook
Speaker 2: and even.
Speaker 3: Audio sounds great. I want to thank you very much
Speaker 3: Denise for coming on and talking about Daddy's Little Secret.
Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure, a very very fascinating book. Thank
Speaker 3: you very much for coming on and talking about it.
Speaker 2: I want to thank you for having me ann I
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you, good night, good night.