Speaker 1: Today, I want to tell you about a journey that
Speaker 1: I've been on for most of my life. Ever since
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I've heard tales of Bigfoot and
Speaker 1: wild men while spending time with my friends and family.
Speaker 1: As I grew older and read more about the paranormal,
Speaker 1: my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm so excited to share with you what
Speaker 1: I've personally become involved with the Untold Radio Network. The
Speaker 1: Untold Radio Network is a live streaming podcast network that
Speaker 1: airs a new show every day across all podcast platforms, YouTube,
Speaker 1: and more. They have eight different shows on all sorts
Speaker 1: of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and
Speaker 1: much more. I even have my own show called Weird Encounters,
Speaker 1: where I talk about all things strange. This is more
Speaker 1: than just a podcast network. It's a community that allows
Speaker 1: me to meet so many amazing people who share their
Speaker 1: stories and experiences with strange. If you're interested in hearing
Speaker 1: more of these stories and learning more about the paranormal encryptids,
Speaker 1: make sure you check out the Untold Radio Network for
Speaker 1: all kinds of exciting shows. It's free to subscribe. So
Speaker 1: what are you waiting for visit www dot untold radionetwork
Speaker 1: dot com today.
Speaker 2: Now, what are your reporting? I got a screen going
Speaker 2: on here. Something just kid with my dog, something to
Speaker 2: kill your dog? My dog. We're flying through there, over
Speaker 2: the tree. I don't know how it did it? Okay, Damn,
Speaker 2: I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming
Speaker 2: over the fence, and name was dead once you hit
Speaker 2: the ground. I didn't see any cars. All I saw
Speaker 2: was my dog coming over the fence. Sat, what are
Speaker 2: you reporting? We got some wonder or something crawling around
Speaker 2: out here? Did you see what it was? It was
Speaker 2: enough out here. Look, I'm new to one doowing now
Speaker 2: and I don't need anything. I don't want to go
Speaker 2: out tonight. FA Hello, hit the buddy out here? What
Speaker 2: went on out there? I thought of a bit of
Speaker 2: about sixty nine. I don't know easy. I'm out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm walking right, heady, doctor Hogan, chirou, welcome to
Speaker 1: my friend. What's going on now?
Speaker 3: Much? Just hanging out in Oregon, hoping that it doesn't
Speaker 3: get too hot, being thankful that the forest fires aren't
Speaker 3: getting too crazy out here yet. How are you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm hanging in like a hair and a biscuit man.
Speaker 1: And it is definitely not hot here in North Carolina.
Speaker 1: I've been freaking cold the last couple of days. I
Speaker 1: think it dropped down in mid fifties last night overnight,
Speaker 1: which is great. I run every day. I ran six
Speaker 1: miles yesterday and I probably could have ran another twelve
Speaker 1: miles because it was so freaking cool outside. It felt amazing.
Speaker 1: But we've had the wettest summer I think we've ever
Speaker 1: had in the history of the world that I can remember.
Speaker 1: It's rained every freaking day for four months. It's impossible
Speaker 1: to do anything outside, and we live outside and do
Speaker 1: everything outside. The weather is what it is. We can
Speaker 1: get into the conversation maybe someday about climate change and
Speaker 1: global warming whatever makes this the wedd Is summer ever
Speaker 1: and the coolest it's been in a long time. I
Speaker 1: think it's going to be like in the seventies over
Speaker 1: the next week or so. I'm definitely looking forward to that.
Speaker 1: But I'm leaving town this weekend as we record this.
Speaker 1: If you guys are listening to this, on Friday, I
Speaker 1: am in Pennsylvania at the Central PA Bigfoot Conference slash Festival.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be hanging out with a bunch of
Speaker 1: good friends of mine that are coming over from the UK.
Speaker 1: I've got Daniel and his father, Craig coming over. The
Speaker 1: Barnettes will be in town. Ryan rpgu Go and Beskie
Speaker 1: will be there. There's a host of other speakers. If
Speaker 1: you're in that area and you just happen to be
Speaker 1: listening to us, grab your ticket and stop by and
Speaker 1: see us. There's going to be tons of people out
Speaker 1: there vending. I think the speaker area is inside, so
Speaker 1: I think you actually have to pay to access that part.
Speaker 1: But you can't just go shop the vendors and have
Speaker 1: a good time. I've never been to that, but I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to hanging out with Gwen from Gotten Knockers,
Speaker 1: who is the organizer of that, and Mike, her husband.
Speaker 1: Great people up there in Pennsylvania. I'm definitely looking forward
Speaker 1: to that. But that's not why we're here. You've been
Speaker 1: on the show before, we've had some conversations about Bigfoot.
Speaker 1: For posterity sake, and for those who have memories like mine,
Speaker 1: I don't remember what had for breakfast, so they may
Speaker 1: not remember who you are. Why don't you give us
Speaker 1: a little bit of the dime store tour, the elevator
Speaker 1: pitch for doctor Hogan chirou Sure.
Speaker 3: So I'm an organ boy, grew up in the woods
Speaker 3: with a hunting and fishing guide as a father, former
Speaker 3: marine who used to like to take us up, spend
Speaker 3: us around ten times and then tell us, okay, tell
Speaker 3: me how you get home from here. And I guess
Speaker 3: that's kind of where my interest in the woods and
Speaker 3: animals started. Went to college, went on and got my
Speaker 3: PhD in evolutionary anthropology and studied everything from grizzly bears
Speaker 3: and gray wolves here in the Pacific Northwest to chimpanzees
Speaker 3: in East Africa. Spent some time with cheetahs in Southern
Speaker 3: Africa and gibbons and Asia. So I've been in lots
Speaker 3: of forests and lots of areas around the world, but
Speaker 3: my specialty is really in the evolution of behavior in humans,
Speaker 3: our hominin ancestors, and our closest relatives. My PhD was
Speaker 3: focusing on chimpanzee behavioral ecology, and I taught for a
Speaker 3: while at a university that have consulted for years. Have
Speaker 3: always had an interest in all things squatchy. That's why
Speaker 3: I reached out to you originally, and I'm excited to
Speaker 3: be here chatting with you today about some of this stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I've been looking forward to this. I love
Speaker 1: to have conversations with people smarter than I am. That's
Speaker 1: how I learned things. And I also like to have
Speaker 1: conversations with people that disagree with me. I think that's
Speaker 1: where the growth happens. If we constantly have conversations with
Speaker 1: everybody who's drinking the big foot kool aid, we never
Speaker 1: get anywhere. So I love these of conversations. I'm sure
Speaker 1: will agree, probably more than we disagree. But one of
Speaker 1: the things that I was fascinated with that you brought up,
Speaker 1: I think in one of our first conversations, and I
Speaker 1: want to get into it here today to start with,
Speaker 1: is a great place. In my opinion, it's a springboard
Speaker 1: for a lot of the experiences people have with bigfoot sasquatch,
Speaker 1: harry man, bushman, whatever you call them, wherever you happen
Speaker 1: to be, whatever the nomenclature for you in your area is.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the same thing here, and it's this
Speaker 1: super hero thing that accompanies these descriptions of these encounters.
Speaker 1: It's one of the things that we talked about before,
Speaker 1: is these things seem to be the biggest, the baddest,
Speaker 1: the fastest, the strongest, the loudest. They're the everything ist
Speaker 1: that has anything to do with the animal kingdom, and
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense in any other capacity. I think
Speaker 1: recently I was on another podcast as a guest, and
Speaker 1: I was talking about this very thing and how it
Speaker 1: baffles me. And I think I compared an elephant and
Speaker 1: a cheetah. Right, Cheetah's one of, if not the fastest
Speaker 1: animal on Earth. Elephant's one of the biggest animals that's
Speaker 1: ever been on the Earth currently on the Earth. I
Speaker 1: think the largest elephant that I read something about recently
Speaker 1: was back in the early nineties. It was a big
Speaker 1: bull elephant. He weighed twenty six thousand pounds. Enormous creature, right,
Speaker 1: But you take those two animals and they're amazing in
Speaker 1: and of themselves, But if you compare them side by side,
Speaker 1: there's nothing there that really overlaps at all. Elephants are big,
Speaker 1: they're heavy, they're strong, they're powerful, they're loud. Cheetahs are fleek,
Speaker 1: they're built for speed, they're killing machines. And when you
Speaker 1: get into the bigfoot sasquatch thing. I've had my own
Speaker 1: encounters with these things, and I'm sure we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about at some point. When you compare these to
Speaker 1: say a sasquatch encounter. Sasquatch are always the fastest, they
Speaker 1: move the fastest, they're the biggest, they're the loudest. Their
Speaker 1: vocalization you feel them before you hear them. People think
Speaker 1: they're able to emit infrasound, very similar to animals like
Speaker 1: elephants and big cats. But they're like the superhero of cryptids,
Speaker 1: and that never has made sense to me. I tend
Speaker 1: to stay in the lane of flesh and blood, the
Speaker 1: scientific approach to this research, But I think what that
Speaker 1: does the longer I stay in this and I think
Speaker 1: this happens with a lot of people in the subject.
Speaker 1: Instead of sticking with the science and just saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's no way this creature could exist, so none of
Speaker 1: that makes any sense, it's all bullshit. I don't believe that.
Speaker 1: Because I've seen these creatures. I know they exist. So
Speaker 1: I have to then evaluate is there something often the
Speaker 1: sauce with the person or persons who experience that. Maybe
Speaker 1: it was adrenaline, Maybe it was fear. Maybe it was
Speaker 1: something else in the encounter. I've said it before. I
Speaker 1: think maybe these things might have been six feet tall
Speaker 1: and they grew three feet or they became ten feet
Speaker 1: tall because of the fear and adrenaline. They disappeared. Maybe
Speaker 1: it didn't disappear, Maybe it just blended with its environments.
Speaker 1: The list goes on and on. There's a litany of things.
Speaker 1: Where are you on this given your background, given your knowledge,
Speaker 1: training and experience, your degree in the subject, how do
Speaker 1: you reconcile that in your brain as a scientist. Are
Speaker 1: you one of these people that dismiss a whole cloth
Speaker 1: or do you think there could be something more to
Speaker 1: some of these signings.
Speaker 3: I have a saying that I've used for decades showing
Speaker 3: my age. I never say never or always in biology.
Speaker 3: As soon as you do, then someone goes and catches
Speaker 3: a ceilacant off the custom Atagascar, and your whole theory
Speaker 3: is screwed. So I always leave the possibility open. I
Speaker 3: am definitely a hardcore skeptic based on my education, training,
Speaker 3: and understanding about ap coology, et cetera, which we can
Speaker 3: get into more detail when it comes to the superhero stuff.
Speaker 3: I brought that up originally because as I was getting
Speaker 3: more and more in to more recent sasquatch stories and things,
Speaker 3: I was noticing just that through line of people talking about, Oh,
Speaker 3: it was so powerful, it did things that humans could
Speaker 3: never do. A five hundred pound rock came flying past
Speaker 3: our truck and it was at least ten feet tall.
Speaker 3: We went out to the tree and measured it was
Speaker 3: at least that tall. It ran faster than any animal
Speaker 3: possibly could. I recently heard someone say there's nothing in
Speaker 3: North America that could outrun a sasquatch. Considering pronghorn antelope
Speaker 3: can hit about sixty miles an hour, that's an impressive claim.
Speaker 3: And I am definitely if sasquatch exists, definitely a flesh
Speaker 3: and blood guy. If it exists, in my opinion, it's
Speaker 3: an ape of some sort. But we need to figure
Speaker 3: that out. But when we look at I love your
Speaker 3: example of elephants and cheetahs because what they do have
Speaker 3: in common is their mammalian ancestry. They're both mammals, both
Speaker 3: give birth to live young, both nurse them, both have
Speaker 3: some sort of hair on their bodies. But you're right,
Speaker 3: when you just look at them, that's where a lot
Speaker 3: of the similarities. And one of the other things with
Speaker 3: cheetahs is one of the compromises that's happened in cheetah
Speaker 3: evolution to get that fast is that they're incredibly fragile.
Speaker 3: So cheetahs don't take any risks when it comes to hunting.
Speaker 3: When it comes to defending food, if a larger predator
Speaker 3: comes along, a cheetah will just take off because it
Speaker 3: can outrun that predator, but it can't outfight it. Its
Speaker 3: bones are more fragile, and really all predators are risk
Speaker 3: averse that way, but cheetah's more so than most elephants.
Speaker 3: On the other hand, I mean, there are certain groups
Speaker 3: that traditionally hunted elephants. They would process elephants from the
Speaker 3: inside out because it was easier to cut through their
Speaker 3: stomach and get the guts out and start working from
Speaker 3: the inside that it was cutting through their hide. That's
Speaker 3: how tough their height is. And while an elephant can
Speaker 3: outrun a human if it wants to for a short distance,
Speaker 3: it's pretty much done for the rest of the day.
Speaker 3: You said that you're running five or six miles a day.
Speaker 3: An elephant's not doing that with you. An elephant's walking
Speaker 3: that slowly because their body requires so much food. There
Speaker 3: are these kind of principles in evolution, things like niche separation,
Speaker 3: which is what gets you from a mammalian ancestor to
Speaker 3: eventually cheetahs and elephants, dolphins and otters and everything else.
Speaker 3: But there's also life history theory is a pretty powerful
Speaker 3: tool in biological studies. It really talks about finite resources.
Speaker 3: There are finite resources and whether those are food, water,
Speaker 3: or resources for evolution, so ability to develop certain parts
Speaker 3: of your body. What happens is this kind of trade off.
Speaker 3: There's almost a cost benefit analysis that happens unconsciously organisms
Speaker 3: depending on the niche that they've separated, and to use
Speaker 3: their resources in different ways. Humans were a great example.
Speaker 3: We're sitting here talking to each other from three thousand
Speaker 3: miles away on computers that our big gass brains have developed,
Speaker 3: but we all know that physically, I don't care if
Speaker 3: there's one hundred of us, we're no match for a gorilla.
Speaker 3: It's just not happening. Those are trade offs that have
Speaker 3: happened over the course of human evolution. Developed that big brain,
Speaker 3: we put less investment into our physical abilities. So when
Speaker 3: I hear these stories of like you said, the superhero
Speaker 3: of cryptids, right, where all of those boxes are checked.
Speaker 3: Some of those folks will say, and they're as smart
Speaker 3: as humans, or they're close to as smart as humans,
Speaker 3: and they're stronger than a gorilla, and they're faster than
Speaker 3: a cheetah, and they're that's in there, and that's biologically.
Speaker 3: We have just never seen that happen with an organism ever.
Speaker 3: Of the million millions of species that have existed, we've
Speaker 3: never seen one that checks all the boxes. So for me,
Speaker 3: I think you're on the right track. I think that
Speaker 3: what happens is people's perception when they're having these experiences,
Speaker 3: it gets distorted without them realizing it. I think of
Speaker 3: the old fishing stories. How big was the fishit you caught?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that sucker was at least two feet long.
Speaker 3: You caught an eat inch bass. That's a nice bass,
Speaker 3: but it wasn't a record center. I have friends who
Speaker 3: have been hunting for thirty years who come back talking
Speaker 3: about biggest buck I've ever seen. Oh my god, I
Speaker 3: thought it was an elk when it came through the woods.
Speaker 3: I have been with them. Had it happen where guys
Speaker 3: talking about the biggest buck run into the same deer.
Speaker 3: Nice four point. It's not the largest deer that's ever lived.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying this to disparage anyone. I think that
Speaker 3: it's a natural thing that happens in our brains, and
Speaker 3: actually I think it may be an adaptation. It may
Speaker 3: be something that's evolved that protects us.
Speaker 1: And stay tuned for more sasquat chotasy. We'll be right
Speaker 1: back after these messages.
Speaker 3: If you see something you can't explain and your brain
Speaker 3: tells you, hey is big and it is dangerous, you're
Speaker 3: more likely to survive that encounter than if your brain goes, hey,
Speaker 3: go boop it on the nose. It's really cute, go
Speaker 3: cuddle with it. You hear stories of the folks who
Speaker 3: get into the historical stuff, and you talk about the
Speaker 3: old newspaper articles. We ever read some of those same
Speaker 3: time period articles about run ins with grizzly bears, and
Speaker 3: grizzly bears in North America were if you would just
Speaker 3: go by those articles, they were ten feet tall. They
Speaker 3: were gigantic. There's no grizzly bear in the world that's
Speaker 3: that big. Again, let's not to say that those folks
Speaker 3: are lying that those folks are making something up intentionally,
Speaker 3: and it may not be an adaptation, may just be
Speaker 3: a byproduct of our creative brains.
Speaker 1: I think what happens with a lot of people in
Speaker 1: this subject, and it certainly happened to me at least
Speaker 1: on some level over the last year or so, is
Speaker 1: most of us don't have the understanding of biology, evolution
Speaker 1: and all the things that you just talked about. What
Speaker 1: happens is and this is what I've heard from so
Speaker 1: many people over the years. The longer you stay in
Speaker 1: this the more wo or high strangeness you tend to go,
Speaker 1: because the flesh and blood thing makes less and less
Speaker 1: sense the more encounter stories that you hear. At some point,
Speaker 1: it can't be the smartest, the biggest, the fastest, the
Speaker 1: everything is on earth. So you start looking at other things.
Speaker 1: Could it be interdimensional? Could it be sent here by aliens?
Speaker 1: Could it be something that's supernatural? And I think that's
Speaker 1: the dangerous slippery slope for a lot of people in
Speaker 1: this is they start to abandon science for other explanations
Speaker 1: that will fill in the gaps in some of the
Speaker 1: things that don't make sense. I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the things we have to be very careful of. I too,
Speaker 1: am guilty of it at times because I've seen things
Speaker 1: in my own experiences that don't make sense to me,
Speaker 1: which we'll talk a little bit about here shortly. You
Speaker 1: mentioned something that I want to expand on a little bit,
Speaker 1: which is the overlap or the alleged overlap in sasquatch
Speaker 1: sightings and ecology versus bear ecology and what that means
Speaker 1: for some of these sightings in your opinion, do you
Speaker 1: think that there could be or is an overlap? And
Speaker 1: this is something that's come up multiple times with doctor
Speaker 1: Jeff Meldrum. He often compares if there's black bear in
Speaker 1: the area, there could be sasquatch in the area in
Speaker 1: his opinion, because that ecology and that biology and what
Speaker 1: they would need to survive is very similar in his opinion.
Speaker 1: What's say you on this alleged overlap or this overlap
Speaker 1: of the alleged sasquatch encounters and the bear ecology and
Speaker 1: where bears are currently residing. Let's just use the lower
Speaker 1: forty eight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely let's be restricted to that, because once
Speaker 3: we go north, it's a whole different conversation. What's interesting
Speaker 3: to me because most of the ecology that people describe
Speaker 3: for sasquatch when they're describing it these days, it's basically
Speaker 3: a bear ecology. They describe as large carnivores. Bears are
Speaker 3: technically large carnivores. So black bears are definitely straight omnivores
Speaker 3: and spend a huge part of their time surviving off
Speaker 3: of berries, grubs, or roots, all sorts of things. That's
Speaker 3: in late terms how I like to describe omnivores. Just
Speaker 3: eat whatever they can, right, They eat whatever will sustain
Speaker 3: them that they can digest. I've had sightings myself. I've
Speaker 3: seen bear had It happened two years ago while I
Speaker 3: was deer hunting. I saw this massive black animal for
Speaker 3: about seventy five yards away disappearing into the bush. From
Speaker 3: that diston, with the broken foliage that I was looking through,
Speaker 3: I could have easily thought, WHOA, I was a huge
Speaker 3: sasquatch that ran into the woods. Being the open minded
Speaker 3: biologist I am, I was like, all right, walk your
Speaker 3: ass over there and check out the tracks and see
Speaker 3: see if you can find any side. And so I did,
Speaker 3: and sure enough found some really nice black bear tracks
Speaker 3: stuffed up a little bit and followed them for a
Speaker 3: little bit to see if I could get another view.
Speaker 3: It's also bear season here, Walle, it's deer season. I
Speaker 3: don't hut bears, but it definitely was that size because
Speaker 3: it didn't stick around when humans have rifles. That got
Speaker 3: me thinking. First off, we can talk about the sighting stuff,
Speaker 3: but kind of overlap. And I know Jeff. I have
Speaker 3: great respect for Jeff. I really like it. I think
Speaker 3: he's just top notch when it comes to especially to anatomy,
Speaker 3: evolution of anatomical structures, things like that. I think, respectfully,
Speaker 3: I disagree with him on his assessment day where there
Speaker 3: are black bears that are probably sasquatch, because again in biology,
Speaker 3: we don't see where large organisms share ecological niches even
Speaker 3: if one's active during the day and one's active during
Speaker 3: the night. Black bears are active during both the day
Speaker 3: and the night, primarily day, but they move around at
Speaker 3: night too. Obviously, all the reports from sas fast watches
Speaker 3: out there they are primarily active at night, but they
Speaker 3: operate during the day too. To me, that just doesn't
Speaker 3: match biologically. Ecologically, it doesn't line up. You'd have to
Speaker 3: have some sort of real niche separation between the two
Speaker 3: for those two speakings to coexist, especially at their body size,
Speaker 3: because they're gonna wipe out resources if they're both in
Speaker 3: the same areas doing that. But I do think the
Speaker 3: bear phenomenon is something that we really should think about
Speaker 3: when we're thinking about sightings and things like that, especially
Speaker 3: when you hear these kind of fleeting sidings. Because my
Speaker 3: anecdotal story is a great example of that. When someone
Speaker 3: says I saw some huge black animal move off, let's
Speaker 3: not jump to something that we don't know for sure.
Speaker 3: If it's out there, we'll talk about your stuff when
Speaker 3: you want to. But my opinion is let's stay conservative.
Speaker 3: We know black bears are out there, so that's probably
Speaker 3: what it was. Again, I think ecologically it just doesn't
Speaker 3: work for me. Jeff and I actually a couple of
Speaker 3: years ago went around and around respectfully about it, where
Speaker 3: I was like, so explain to me this because we
Speaker 3: don't see this. You don't see another large carnivore where
Speaker 3: there are tigers, and tigers are hunting mostly at night
Speaker 3: and there's a daytime large carnivore that's operating filling that
Speaker 3: same niche. So, yeah, that's where I stand on it.
Speaker 1: It makes sense I've said, I think that some of
Speaker 1: the anecdotal experiences people have our most likely misidentifications. I
Speaker 1: certainly don't think that everybody who's ever purported to have
Speaker 1: seen a sasquatch actually saw one. I think there are
Speaker 1: misidentifications that happen. It's easy to do. It's easy to
Speaker 1: get scared startled when you see a big black mass
Speaker 1: moving away, and most people don't do what you did,
Speaker 1: which was go towards where you saw this thing and
Speaker 1: find follow up traces of what it could have been
Speaker 1: ie footprints that turned out to be a black bear.
Speaker 1: I see a large black mass moving off into the
Speaker 1: tree line, I go where said black mass enter the
Speaker 1: tree line, and wow, there's black bear. Prance, you put
Speaker 1: all the totality of the circumstances together, you saw black bear.
Speaker 1: Most people don't do that. They just assume that whatever
Speaker 1: that was, whatever their brain immediately goes to, whether it
Speaker 1: was a bear or a asquatch. For them, that's what
Speaker 1: it is, and that's what the story is for the
Speaker 1: remainder of their life. But that's the difference I think
Speaker 1: in you and the rest of the world, or me
Speaker 1: and the rest of the world, is most people aren't
Speaker 1: into those kind of things, so they're not going to
Speaker 1: do that, and it just continues to be perpetuated as
Speaker 1: a siding of bigfoot or it was just a black bear.
Speaker 1: I would imagine that it's probably happened in the past
Speaker 1: that somebody might have seen a sasquatch and thought it
Speaker 1: was a black bear and just dismissed it as Oh,
Speaker 1: I saw this big black bear when I was out there.
Speaker 1: I've heard those stories that initially people thought that's what
Speaker 1: they saw, and then they investigated and they found different results,
Speaker 1: more human like foot prints that were larger, those kind
Speaker 1: of things.
Speaker 3: My buddies and I used to talk when we were younger. Hey,
Speaker 3: if you ever did run into a bigfoot, if they're
Speaker 3: out there, what do you think you'd do. It's one
Speaker 3: of those fun thought experiments to ask people to hear
Speaker 3: where their mind is and what their personal perception is.
Speaker 3: The reality is most of us are gonna stay far
Speaker 3: away from that, cause, again, your brain is screaming at you.
Speaker 3: You don't know what that thing is, you don't know
Speaker 3: how dangerous that thing is, Get the hell away. I
Speaker 3: think part of what it may be my training in
Speaker 3: being in the field with large animals, having been charged
Speaker 3: by elephants more than seven times in my life. It
Speaker 3: may also just be a natural fascination by me. We're
Speaker 3: having that discussion one time, that theoretical discussion. I said, well,
Speaker 3: it's not theoretical for me, and they said what, And
Speaker 3: I said. I was hunting one time. I saw this
Speaker 3: thing that I couldn't explain what it was. I would
Speaker 3: literally have my scope upon it. I was looking at it.
Speaker 3: I still couldn't explain what it was. It looked like
Speaker 3: a hair covered head in the woods that was maybe
Speaker 3: a little taller than I am. I don't know what
Speaker 3: that is. I pulled my scope, I cranked it up
Speaker 3: high power. It still couldn't get a good view of it.
Speaker 3: So I finally went, you know what, forget it and
Speaker 3: just walked straight towards it, because I'm like, if it
Speaker 3: is a sasquatch and it decided to kill me, here's
Speaker 3: a fun way to go. This is gonna be a
Speaker 3: great story for my fam I had a hunting buddy,
Speaker 3: maybe just like two hundred yards away, so he knew
Speaker 3: right where I was. So it's like, I'm not gonna
Speaker 3: be one of those who just disappears. I'm gonna be found.
Speaker 3: It was a stump squatch. I found the exact stump.
Speaker 3: It was one of those where, Okay, I'd answered that
Speaker 3: question for myself. It may not benefit me someday, But
Speaker 3: when I decided to do that, When I hear a
Speaker 3: growl in the African forest and I decide to go
Speaker 3: check it out and ends up being a big ass
Speaker 3: lion or something, it's something that I think you're right.
Speaker 3: I think most people they're not going to be bothered
Speaker 3: with going over there. They're not going to go to
Speaker 3: the frustration or exhaustion or pain of fighting through the
Speaker 3: foliage you may have to, or getting through the brush
Speaker 3: to get over there. Whatever the case is. They're driving by,
Speaker 3: they got to get home, whatever the situation. I think
Speaker 3: they don't take the time those two particular cases, I
Speaker 3: had the time I could do it, so I did it.
Speaker 3: I think that kind of goes to what I hope
Speaker 3: us having these conversations we'll get folks to do a
Speaker 3: little bit more. I love the kind of citizen science
Speaker 3: approach that's happening, that kind of crowdsourcing that's going on
Speaker 3: with ideas and stuff around the sasquatch phenomenon. Part of
Speaker 3: the reason I'm interested in getting more involved than this
Speaker 3: is because I really want folks to go okay. So
Speaker 3: it's one thing to be a bird watcher, it's another
Speaker 3: thing to be an ornithologist or a bird scientist, right
Speaker 3: you Like, you can go out and bird watch all
Speaker 3: day long and you get some great information on western
Speaker 3: meadow lark is in this area, or whatever the case is.
Speaker 3: But to get deeper into understanding behavioral ecology, the evolution
Speaker 3: of organisms, those sort of things, there's some methods that
Speaker 3: can be employed that help people get that kind of
Speaker 3: more objective and more scientific perspective on things.
Speaker 1: I know you had some questions about my experiences and
Speaker 1: my transformation from being very skeptical most of the time.
Speaker 1: I was fifty to fifty at best on whether these
Speaker 1: things were real or not leading up to some of
Speaker 1: the experiences I had in Radium back in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: three and then last summer in the Pacific Northwest. Did
Speaker 1: you have specific questions or things that you wanted to
Speaker 1: get into in relation to those experiences.
Speaker 3: First stuff, I just want to start nuts and both
Speaker 3: stuff like you had talked about. There's a documentary that's
Speaker 3: coming out. I don't know if it's been released yet.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to know that so I know where
Speaker 3: we're at talking about these six Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the documentary is not out yet. My understanding is
Speaker 1: it should be out by the end of the year.
Speaker 1: We're talking the next three to four months. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure exactly when that's going to be. But yes, we
Speaker 1: were filming that documentary. It started in the United Kingdom
Speaker 1: and we ended the filming over in the Pacific Northwest,
Speaker 1: specifically in Washington State. We were actually working out of
Speaker 1: the Olympic Project Headquarters was our base of operations when
Speaker 1: we were in that area filming once we'd moved out
Speaker 1: of the Seattle area.
Speaker 3: Cool. Yeah, So I don't know what you can talk
Speaker 3: about and what you can talk about at this point.
Speaker 3: With all of that, I haven't had a chance to hear.
Speaker 3: What was the tipping point for you?
Speaker 1: It started on the first full day we were there
Speaker 1: doing some scouting in an area that we wanted to
Speaker 1: do night filming. We knew we were going to go
Speaker 1: out at least one night, possibly too, but we didn't
Speaker 1: want to go in blind. We wanted to go into
Speaker 1: an area that we were somewhat familiar with. The terrain
Speaker 1: because we had twelve to fifteen people in to was
Speaker 1: a huge group of people, including two camera men with
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars plus camera rigs that they were
Speaker 1: dragging into the woods. We wanted to take them into
Speaker 1: an area where we could do serious research and get
Speaker 1: some hopefully good footage of what we were doing, but
Speaker 1: for everybody to be safe. Obviously, we didn't want to
Speaker 1: damage these hundred thousand dollars plus cameras. So we were
Speaker 1: doing the first day we went out, we'd separated because
Speaker 1: we were behind scheduled. There were some things that happened
Speaker 1: early on and when you see the documentary it's called
Speaker 1: My Bigfoot Life, you'll see what happened over in the
Speaker 1: United Kingdom that set us back multiple days. So everything
Speaker 1: was compacted as far as the schedule was concerned, so
Speaker 1: we had to split up go our different ways. Part
Speaker 1: of the team went one way. I was part of
Speaker 1: the team that was doing the scouting that day for
Speaker 1: the night shoot, while some of the other team was
Speaker 1: doing other things, filming some b roll and other stuff.
Speaker 1: So we get out into this area and we started
Speaker 1: hearing whistling in the woods.
Speaker 3: I'm not a.
Speaker 1: Whistler, but it was basically, if you just picture up,
Speaker 1: you're trying to get your friends attention that little kind
Speaker 1: of whistle. Hey, I'm over here. We were hearing that
Speaker 1: in the woods. We stopped. We're following it as it's
Speaker 1: following us. It's moving, the sounds moving, and we get
Speaker 1: to an area where there was a bridge over this
Speaker 1: little small creek area upon this embankment was some really
Speaker 1: large trees in this area, old growth forest. It's in
Speaker 1: a protected area, so nobody's been logging in there for
Speaker 1: hundreds of years, so most of the trees are pretty big.
Speaker 1: And stay tuned for more sasquatch oat to see. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back after these messages. Looking in that area
Speaker 1: where we had heard this whistle, and I see something
Speaker 1: peak around the side of a tree. It's probably seventy
Speaker 1: five eighty yards away. It was a really quick peak.
Speaker 1: I'm talking split second, less than a second. Happened three times,
Speaker 1: but I saw a face. I saw what looked like
Speaker 1: a dark face with eyes just peeking around the tree.
Speaker 1: Saw that three times. I drew everybody's attention to that area.
Speaker 1: Everybody started looking. We didn't hear the whistling anymore. So
Speaker 1: we're now focused on trying to see what was peaking
Speaker 1: around this tree. It was in an area where we
Speaker 1: weren't comfortable trying to access. It was very inhospitable terrain.
Speaker 1: It was not something that we felt at that moment.
Speaker 1: As much as I wanted to go investigate, it just
Speaker 1: didn't seem safe and a good use of our time.
Speaker 1: So we moved on. We went on, finished up our
Speaker 1: scouting of the area, found some areas that we knew
Speaker 1: we wanted to go into. We had found some I
Speaker 1: can't remember what type of nuts they were, but we
Speaker 1: found some piles of nuts that looked like something had
Speaker 1: sat there and had a snack or a meal. Very interesting.
Speaker 1: We didn't find any of the nuts or a tree
Speaker 1: that had the nuts anywhere in the area, so they
Speaker 1: looked like they had been brought there. I have to
Speaker 1: ask Chris. Chris knew exactly what kind of nuts they were.
Speaker 1: He actually somehow managed to get them through customs and
Speaker 1: back into the United Kingdom, and he still had them
Speaker 1: because he was convinced that a sasquatch had been eating them,
Speaker 1: so he took some of the husks back with him
Speaker 1: as a souvenir. Hopefully he won't get arrested in the
Speaker 1: UK for that. We went on and found this area.
Speaker 1: We went out that night and did our night shoot
Speaker 1: and that's when we had two more encounters with these
Speaker 1: things happened very similarly. We were hearing this whistling noise
Speaker 1: that was drawing our attention to this area in the woods.
Speaker 1: Bobo was there and he had his thermal, and he
Speaker 1: and Daniel, this kid who at the time was fourteen
Speaker 1: when this happened. They were passing the thermal back and
Speaker 1: forth and they're seeing some heat signatures. At first it
Speaker 1: was one, then it was a larger heat signature. Bobo
Speaker 1: turns around and asks the group me, Ryan, Chris, and
Speaker 1: there was a couple of other people and of course
Speaker 1: the two cameramen were there. He said, there's a huge
Speaker 1: heat signature and he points to this area. We estimated
Speaker 1: it was probably thirty to fifty yards into the woods.
Speaker 1: He's like, who's going to go out there? Of course
Speaker 1: I'm going it's possibly a bigfoot. I'm gonna go. So
Speaker 1: I went started walking towards that area. I actually have
Speaker 1: the thermal footage. It's about ten or twelve minutes of
Speaker 1: thermal I think Obviously it hasn't been released hip because
Speaker 1: the documentary's not out. Once the documentary comes out, I
Speaker 1: fully intend to release this thermal because we called some
Speaker 1: very interesting images. I'll just leave it at that. So
Speaker 1: I'm walking to this area where I was hearing this whistling.
Speaker 1: Now the whistling stops, but I'm letting them basically guide me.
Speaker 1: They're looking through the thermal and they're saying, go this way,
Speaker 1: go that way. It's right there, it's about so and
Speaker 1: so in front of you. You should be in that area.
Speaker 1: And I started hearing some weird sounds. I've described it
Speaker 1: as it almost sounded like picking up two or three
Speaker 1: large river rocks and like juggling them around in your hand.
Speaker 1: You know that noise they make when they hit together, right, Well,
Speaker 1: that's what it sounded like. It's weird to describe that.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that could be or why I
Speaker 1: was hearing this noise, but I was hearing this noise,
Speaker 1: and I was hearing faint what sounded like something possibly walking.
Speaker 1: I think I heard a snap of a twig, but
Speaker 1: not a lot of noise. Right, So I'm walking towards
Speaker 1: where the noise is and I get to an area
Speaker 1: where this is thick. It's really thick. There's so much deadfall,
Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. There was so much deadfall, in fact, that
Speaker 1: the guys who were filming us, the two guys on
Speaker 1: the camera crew, couldn't make it in with the rigs.
Speaker 1: Everything that we filmed from that point forward in the
Speaker 1: woods had to be done on GoPros and a handheld
Speaker 1: camera that Ryan rpg Gill and Beskie bought back in
Speaker 1: like nineteen ninety four, And the only reason he had
Speaker 1: it with him is because it was handheld and it
Speaker 1: had night vision.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So, I'm walking in this area here in these little noises,
Speaker 1: I'm hearing this weird clacking river rock sound. And I
Speaker 1: get to an area where there's a little bit of
Speaker 1: an opening in front of me. It looks like a
Speaker 1: game trail, maybe three four feet wide. And I'm looking
Speaker 1: up this area and I hear something walking, so I
Speaker 1: fling on my flashlight because I was walking in the
Speaker 1: dark up until this point. I threw my flashlight on
Speaker 1: and this thing crosses across the trail in front of me,
Speaker 1: probably twenty feet in front of him, this big, dark,
Speaker 1: hairy figure. I could see from the top of the
Speaker 1: head basically to I don't know, maybe midchest. It's got
Speaker 1: its arms back like you're making a motion to go
Speaker 1: a different direction, and its face is turned away from me.
Speaker 1: I'm shining my flashlight on this thing's back, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: holy shit, this thing just crossed the trail twenty feet
Speaker 1: in front of me. So of course I said something like,
Speaker 1: holy shit, this thing just crossed in front of me.
Speaker 1: They hear me. Chris is starting to come into the
Speaker 1: area at this point, He's a screw it. Brian's been
Speaker 1: in there long enough by himself. Chris, he's starting to
Speaker 1: come up here now. Chris is I don't know, six'
Speaker 1: four two, ten Former queen's, guard big, dude, right he's
Speaker 1: coming trapsing up behind, ME i. Hear and we go
Speaker 1: back and regroup With bobo and them and, said, look
Speaker 1: this is what. Happened this is WHAT i. Saw we're
Speaker 1: going to follow this direction because it was headed from
Speaker 1: my left to right across this. Trail so everybody goes
Speaker 1: into the. Woods and by, EVERYBODY i mean it was, Me, RYAN, Rpg,
Speaker 1: daniel his, Dad, craig And. Chris we go into the.
Speaker 1: Woods chris AND i are Together daniel And ryan And
Speaker 1: craig are in another. Group we get to a certain
Speaker 1: point in the woods Where i'm a little bit off
Speaker 1: to the. Left ryan is over. Here Then chris AND
Speaker 1: i get to an area where we stop and we're,
Speaker 1: listening And i've got it on. Audio i've listened back
Speaker 1: to the. AUDIO i wasn't miked for this, part BUT
Speaker 1: i had my audio going in my pocket AND i
Speaker 1: had a little mic that was clipped, on So i'm recording.
Speaker 1: THIS i haven't listened to the audio to hear if
Speaker 1: this is on the, audio but you can Hear chris
Speaker 1: AND i talking about this. Sound it sounded like something
Speaker 1: jumped out of a tree and landed on the. Ground
Speaker 1: it was like this. Thud And chris is, LIKE i
Speaker 1: heard this. THUD i, SAID i heard the same. Thing
Speaker 1: it sounded like something jumped out of a. Tree it
Speaker 1: was really. Weird we're talking about. That we're hearing some more.
Speaker 1: Cracking we're hearing something that sounds like it's moving from
Speaker 1: left to right above. US i get to an area
Speaker 1: Where i'm by myself and walk off From. Chris chris
Speaker 1: goes back and he's With daniel And craig are all
Speaker 1: in one, area And ryan is milling around behind us
Speaker 1: doing this. THING i Hear daniel SAY i see eye.
Speaker 1: SHINE i see eye, shine and he's pointing up this.
Speaker 1: Ridge SO i look where he's. POINTING i move almost
Speaker 1: even with, them and THEN i walk a few. Steps
Speaker 1: i'm probably eight or ten feet in front of. Him
Speaker 1: at this POINT i SEE i don't know how to
Speaker 1: describe it other than a big set of glowing white
Speaker 1: eyes and they're swaying back and. Forth it's almost like
Speaker 1: if you listen to enough anecdotal experiences from people seeing,
Speaker 1: sasquatch it's almost like. THAT i hate to use the,
Speaker 1: term but it's like an autistic person sways back and,
Speaker 1: forth that kind of. Movement. Right So i'm watching, this
Speaker 1: and then there's another set that's a little bit, smaller
Speaker 1: maybe a foot and a half. Below. Oh this set
Speaker 1: is a smaller set of what looks like glowing white.
Speaker 1: Eyes AND i say glowing because at this point nobody
Speaker 1: had any lights. On there was no ambient. Light it
Speaker 1: had been, raining it was. OVERCAST i don't think there
Speaker 1: was any. MOONLIGHT i couldn't see my hand in front
Speaker 1: of my face with our lights. Off we see. This
Speaker 1: we're all, like what The and you can see in
Speaker 1: the Video i'm in front of. Them you can't really
Speaker 1: see my, face but it's Clear i'm trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what we're looking. At you can feel the what
Speaker 1: the fuck is? That and they. Disappear it's like they drop,
Speaker 1: down they just. Go both sets. Gone so at that
Speaker 1: point we throw our flashlights. On and when we threw
Speaker 1: our flashlights, on almost the exact same thing. Happened that
Speaker 1: happens fifteen minutes. BEFORE i see this thing ten feet
Speaker 1: now in front of, me cross across the trail and goes.
Speaker 1: Up immediately as soon AS i saw, IT i Hear Chris,
Speaker 1: Yale oh my, God, oh oh my. GOD i just
Speaker 1: saw it move across the. Trail daniel saw, it AND
Speaker 1: i take off after. IT i started running full bore
Speaker 1: up the side of this, ridge PROBABLY i don't, know
Speaker 1: seven to ten percent, grade which doesn't sound like a
Speaker 1: lot until you're fifty years old and you're in a
Speaker 1: bunch of underbrush and.
Speaker 3: Deadfall, yeah forty five years, old seven to ten percent
Speaker 3: is gonna end up being a. Lot, yeah it was a.
Speaker 1: Lot So i'm balls to the wall chasing WHATEVER i
Speaker 1: had just. Seen NOW i wasn't seeing it at this.
Speaker 1: Point it was. Gone it had crossed the, trail AND
Speaker 1: i obviously didn't have my flashlight on. It nobody had
Speaker 1: a light on. It i'm chasing this, thing which was.
Speaker 1: Dumb in, retrospect it was one of the dumbest Things
Speaker 1: i've ever.
Speaker 2: DONE.
Speaker 1: A i'm not going to catch. IT B i could
Speaker 1: have been, killed. RIGHT i know that, now but in the,
Speaker 1: MOMENT i didn't know what else to. Do it was
Speaker 1: fight or, flight AND i was full On i'm gonna
Speaker 1: see this thing. Again i'm gonna get as close AS
Speaker 1: i can to see this thing one more time and
Speaker 1: hopefully get a look at its. Face there was so
Speaker 1: much going, on so it's just total. Pandemonium and ka
Speaker 1: they start running up behind. Me i'm chasing this. THING
Speaker 1: i get to the top of the. Ridge ryan makes
Speaker 1: it up. There everybody eventually makes it up. There they start,
Speaker 1: filming asking me WHAT i. Saw we start going through
Speaker 1: the whole. THING i get super. EMOTIONAL i cried like
Speaker 1: a little bitch WHILE i was up, there And i'll
Speaker 1: tell you it was. MORE i think it had a
Speaker 1: lot to do WITH i had this adrenaline, dump SO
Speaker 1: i THINK i had a lot to do with the,
Speaker 1: adrenaline BUT i also felt really shitty BECAUSE i doubted
Speaker 1: so many people who had explained to me that they
Speaker 1: had almost the same thing happened to, them AND i
Speaker 1: just rolled my. EYES i was, like these things don't
Speaker 1: have glowing. Eyes you weren't ten feet away from a big.
Speaker 1: Foot you're full of. Shit and then it happened to,
Speaker 1: Me SO i felt like a. DICK i was very
Speaker 1: emotional BECAUSE i was, upset adrenaline, pumping AND i had
Speaker 1: just seen SOMETHING i didn't think, existed BUT i saw
Speaker 1: it with my own, EYES i believe three times in two.
Speaker 1: Days that was pretty much the. End after, that we
Speaker 1: made our way back down to the rest of the
Speaker 1: group that couldn't make it up. There so we're all
Speaker 1: standing around doing a. Debrief we get to a point
Speaker 1: Where bobo, says in my, experience sometimes when you get
Speaker 1: that close to these, things or other people have had
Speaker 1: these experiences and they've gotten this close to these, things
Speaker 1: sometimes if you'll move, on like the whole group will
Speaker 1: move on and somebody hangs, back you'll have an experience
Speaker 1: like they'll come back. In AND i was, like that
Speaker 1: sounds really. Cool i'd like to have that. Experience i'll
Speaker 1: be the one to stay. Back everybody else goes the
Speaker 1: two miles back to base camp or. Whatever i'm going
Speaker 1: to hang back here by. Myself sounded. Good at the
Speaker 1: time we finished the, filming we did a big long
Speaker 1: call and some other stuff that you guys can see
Speaker 1: in the. Documentary it was really. Cool it was a
Speaker 1: really cool moment to have everybody there and just experience
Speaker 1: what we had. Experienced so everybody takes off And i'm
Speaker 1: standing there And i'm. Fine i'm perfectly fine BECAUSE i
Speaker 1: just chase this thing up the hill with no fear at.
Speaker 1: ALL i felt zero fear at any point during any
Speaker 1: of them UNTIL i was there by, myself AND i
Speaker 1: had almost immediate this overwhelming feeling of. Dread you need
Speaker 1: to be somewhere, else And i've only felt that a
Speaker 1: couple of. Times BUT i knew well enough that it
Speaker 1: was time for me to, go SO i started making
Speaker 1: my way back. DOWN i was probably ten minutes at
Speaker 1: most behind the rest of the, group and WHEN i caught,
Speaker 1: Up buba was, like what the hell are you doing down?
Speaker 1: HERE i thought you were going to stay, back AND
Speaker 1: i was, like your ass can go up. There i'm.
Speaker 1: Not he was, like WHAT i told him about the,
Speaker 1: Feeling he was, like that's. Weird i've never heard anybody
Speaker 1: talking about. THAT i was, like, DUDE i don't know
Speaker 1: what it. IS i don't know if it's the post adrenaline.
Speaker 1: DUMP i don't know if it's just me psyching myself,
Speaker 1: out whatever the case may. Be my gut was telling
Speaker 1: me to, go and that's WHAT i. Did buba. Went
Speaker 1: he made his way back up. There he stayed up
Speaker 1: there for a. While he had no other experiences That
Speaker 1: i'm aware. Of he said he didn't hear or see
Speaker 1: or feel anything while he was up. There that kind
Speaker 1: of drew that to a close to. Me there's no
Speaker 1: doubt in my mind WHAT i, saw and it confuses
Speaker 1: me to this. Day i'm still trying to process how
Speaker 1: all of that. Happened HOW i was so close to
Speaker 1: something that. Big we all estimated once we got our
Speaker 1: bearings based on the foliage the trees around our. Height
Speaker 1: i'm six,' two chris is a little bit taller. Than
Speaker 1: me he's about. Six' four this thing had to be
Speaker 1: at least seven to seven and a, half feet tall
Speaker 1: because that was. Ten feet away ten feet is not,
Speaker 1: a great distance and. It was big it was much,
Speaker 1: bigger than, me much, bigger much, taller much wider and.
Speaker 1: CERTAINLY way hairrier i don't know how to explain. THE
Speaker 1: glowing eyes i don't know how to explain being that
Speaker 1: close to something that big that didn't make any more noise.
Speaker 1: Than it did we heard no vocalizations of any kind
Speaker 1: outside of the whistles. That we heard that. Didn't make
Speaker 1: sense didn't sound, like a bird didn't sound, like a
Speaker 1: cat didn't sound like any Other animal that. I'd ever
Speaker 1: heard it sounded like a person whistling to. Get our
Speaker 1: attention that's exactly what. It sounded like that's pretty much it. Man,
Speaker 1: THE experience again i don't know what else.
Speaker 3: IT could be i gotta SAY that when, i heard
Speaker 3: you when you GOT back and i was listening to
Speaker 3: this pod With you and wayne and you were, TALKING
Speaker 3: about it i gotta say that it's probably the thing
Speaker 3: that has shaken my skepticism, more than anything BECAUSE you and.
Speaker 3: I have talked, i TRUST you and i, trust YOUR
Speaker 3: perception and i know how skeptical you were. In the past,
Speaker 3: so for me it's just like even sparked my interest Even,
Speaker 3: More of okay now this is a REAL mystery that
Speaker 3: i need to help dive into IN whatever. Way i
Speaker 3: can because when, You said listen i'm now in, THE
Speaker 3: knower camp, i, was like whoa that's, heavy FOR me
Speaker 3: and i know it. IS for you i know that's
Speaker 3: not a light statement. That you make so thanks for sharing, that,
Speaker 3: with ME because, LIKE i said i, was just like,
Speaker 3: Wait a second brian knows. What, HE saw man i
Speaker 3: got to rethink some. Of this stuff.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for. More sasquat chotasy we'll be right back.
Speaker 1: AFTER these messages.
Speaker 3: I gotta say when it comes to the, GLOWING eyes thing,
Speaker 3: i Don't know but i'm not a big believer that
Speaker 3: bioluminescence would even be possible. For, a primate honestly there's
Speaker 3: nothing like. That in primates, to get eyeshine you got
Speaker 3: to go back fifty five million years in primate evolution
Speaker 3: to get to. And modern day. We're talking lemurs we're
Speaker 3: talking stuff that's separated from our lineage by fifty to fifty.
Speaker 3: Five billion years that part. IS really hard i love, when,
Speaker 3: people say all we see it in other parts of. The,
Speaker 3: animal world yeah we see it with, things like jellyfish
Speaker 3: we see it with shit that's so far removed from
Speaker 3: human it's almost an alien. SPECIES to us i say
Speaker 3: that intentionally because that thing gets people into that jump
Speaker 3: off of the woo thing and, all OF that which
Speaker 3: i don't. BUY into either i think that there's probably.
Speaker 3: Some other explanation either we're dealing with some sort of
Speaker 3: ape that we've never seen before again if we're talking
Speaker 3: a real species out, in the forest or we're dealing
Speaker 3: With something and i'll just leave it at something for
Speaker 3: now that can make the appearance that it has glowing
Speaker 3: eyes that, can do things because, those are scary. Those
Speaker 3: are impactful there's something possibly going on.
Speaker 1: In THAT way and i haven't seen all. Of The
Speaker 1: footage and i'm saying that nobody was. Shining a flashlight
Speaker 1: i've said that, since DAY one because i don't think
Speaker 1: there was anybody shining a flashlight. At that point could
Speaker 1: somebody have, Had one on could it have been the
Speaker 1: ambient light. FROM a camera. I don't know it's possible
Speaker 1: that there was something outside of. Bioluminescence going on i'm.
Speaker 1: Open to that i'm not saying that by any means
Speaker 1: that's the only explanation for. What we saw when we
Speaker 1: saw the eyes clearly. Glowing or reflecting but in the
Speaker 1: moment and EVEN now as, i recall IT that's what.
Speaker 1: I remember seeing i remember seeing what. Looked like bioluminescence
Speaker 1: could it have, Been, something different absolutely because it doesn't compute.
Speaker 1: To me either humans, don't have eyeshine we don't have it,
Speaker 1: to pay them, loose of them so it wouldn't make
Speaker 1: sense that something along the lines of an ape would.
Speaker 1: HAVE that ability i am certainly open. To, OTHER things
Speaker 1: again i haven't seen all the footage from. All the
Speaker 1: cameras it's possible somebody could have had a light on
Speaker 1: and maybe not have been. SHINING it directly i don't
Speaker 1: know a lot.
Speaker 4: OF possibilities there i think the other thing about the
Speaker 4: bioluminescence anglele is that luminescence isn't used so organisms can
Speaker 4: see better.
Speaker 3: In their environment it's. Used for display its used so
Speaker 3: other organisms can see them of. Their own species so
Speaker 3: it's weird that you would talk about Something that look
Speaker 3: if this is, a biological species it is. A visual
Speaker 3: specie if it has big eyes that, are facing forward
Speaker 3: it's relying heavily. On its vision glowing eyes are not
Speaker 3: going to increase its, vision at night glowing eyes are
Speaker 3: just going to be little beacons. To it's surrounding so
Speaker 3: that's the other part is it doesn't make sense logically
Speaker 3: that an organism would evolve that unless it's being used
Speaker 3: as some, Sort of display unless it's being used as.
Speaker 3: Something like that, and the way even in your experience that,
Speaker 3: you just described that doesn't sound. Like a display they're
Speaker 3: not using it to scare you or to show you.
Speaker 3: That they're there so that's what makes. ME just wonder
Speaker 3: i really think that's an interesting line OF questioning that
Speaker 3: i think there may be some hypotheses you could, come
Speaker 3: up with look at it scientifically and get, to a
Speaker 3: deduction but it's going to be hard to get the data.
Speaker 3: On that one.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting to me because again part of my
Speaker 1: emotional response to the, after action report, if You will
Speaker 1: was i've heard that from. So many people it's not,
Speaker 1: every single encounter but there are quite a few of
Speaker 1: anecdotal accounts that people give or have given that say
Speaker 1: they saw glowing, eyes, different colors, green. Yellowish white blue
Speaker 1: in some cases.
Speaker 3: The long time red was the color that. People, talked about.
Speaker 1: Yeah is it something that people are projecting. Into that
Speaker 1: situation did? We project it but then you get. Into
Speaker 1: mass hallucination there's what five people in the moment watching,
Speaker 1: and SEEING this and i have seen some. Of the
Speaker 1: footage there was something glowing. Captured on video, it's not clear,
Speaker 1: it's not perfect but it's enough for, me, to go
Speaker 1: yes that's exactly where, it was, STANDING and yes i
Speaker 1: see that. In the video we. Recorded it happening so
Speaker 1: there is some, extra evidence there, if you will although
Speaker 1: it's not conclusive by any stretch. Of the imagination we're
Speaker 1: not talking about, the money shot but there is some
Speaker 1: physical representation of what we saw that Made me go.
Speaker 1: I'm NOT crazy when, I saw, It i said i'm
Speaker 1: not crazy because. It's clearly there it's, a split second.
Speaker 5: But.
Speaker 1: It's.
Speaker 3: THERE yeah absolutely i do want, To say too please
Speaker 3: don't beat yourself up. For questioning people this IS something
Speaker 3: that i think is Important with. The sasquatch WORLD you
Speaker 3: and i have, talked about ball people, taking it personally
Speaker 3: people getting into, these different camps that. SORT of stuff
Speaker 3: i think if this line of inquiry and this research,
Speaker 3: is gonna mature it has to get past that. A
Speaker 3: little bit people are always going to, get hurt feelings that.
Speaker 3: Sort of thing but also part of the point of
Speaker 3: this scientific method is to take the human reaction. OUT
Speaker 3: of it i appreciate, that, YOU'RE like man i felt
Speaker 3: like an ass, for doing this for, Doubting these people
Speaker 3: but at, the same time your skepticism helps to propel
Speaker 3: any kind of research Into this ford and you said
Speaker 3: it at the very, beginning, Of this right that's what
Speaker 3: needs to happen is we need to, Have, people going,
Speaker 3: okay that's great but could it? Have been this could it?
Speaker 3: Have been that Because we need the other part is
Speaker 3: that emotional. Reaction, you had honestly if you look at
Speaker 3: journal entries things like that from soldiers who. Are In
Speaker 3: battle and i'm not saying that anything you were in
Speaker 3: comes even close to what our veterans and fallen, soldiers
Speaker 3: went through but that kind of really intense emotional situation,
Speaker 3: in your case something that you've been how long you've
Speaker 3: been doing the BIGFOOT thing since I, was issu yeah,
Speaker 3: so a lifelong almost forty year fascination knacking you in
Speaker 3: the face almost from twenty feet away and then ten
Speaker 3: feet away if you hadn't had, AN emotional reaction I
Speaker 3: keep like brian maybe you should see someone they talk
Speaker 3: is that, with a therapist because that's like the. Most
Speaker 3: human reaction and THE journal part i was talking about
Speaker 3: is you look at, journals from soldiers a lot of
Speaker 3: them who write honestly and who have been able to
Speaker 3: talk honestly after their first encounter. With the enemy. Soldiers
Speaker 3: are bawling there may not have even, been shots fire it's.
Speaker 3: Just That intensity and I'll tell you i've observed more
Speaker 3: than thirty what we call battles between chimpanzee communities during
Speaker 3: my time, in the field where you have multiple males
Speaker 3: from one community multiple males from another community coming. Together
Speaker 3: and fighting i've observed more. Than, of those afterward our
Speaker 3: closest living relatives have that same kind, of emotional overload
Speaker 3: the adrenaline dump that. You're talking, about they're screaming they're,
Speaker 3: doing fear grimaces they're. Comforting each other chimps don't really
Speaker 3: have saline tears so much, like we do but they
Speaker 3: are doing all the chimp. Equivalent AFTER that so i
Speaker 3: would say this is a deeply rooted evolutionary behavior that
Speaker 3: you experienced after. That intense experience so you're just a
Speaker 3: good primate. For doing, that you know a. Really intense
Speaker 3: experience it's again that kind of byproduct of those chemicals
Speaker 3: and hormones being released. Into your system but getting back
Speaker 3: to the nuts and, Bolts, of IT man now i
Speaker 3: want to go To Visit. The olympic project i've spent
Speaker 3: some Time In The olympia National Forest. AND national park i.
Speaker 3: Love THAT area but i know what you're talking about
Speaker 3: how intense the deadfall the forest can be, to get
Speaker 3: through especially if you're not, on, a nice clean manicured
Speaker 3: hiking trail that they've, set for you which in, your
Speaker 3: guy's case you Went In. The national park if You're In,
Speaker 3: the national park don't go off trail you're. Not supposed
Speaker 3: to but in, your, Guys case yeah i've been. IN
Speaker 3: that forest i understand what. You're talking about. THAT is
Speaker 3: intense i have tried to follow deer and lots of
Speaker 3: other animals up slopes like. You're, Talking about, yeah i'm
Speaker 3: sorry it's just a hopeless endeavor for a biped to try.
Speaker 3: And do that That's a human i'll. Say, that one
Speaker 3: yeah it was.
Speaker 1: Definitely something man we went back the next day to
Speaker 1: try to see if there was a possibility of seeing
Speaker 1: something that might, have been. Evidence I E, Hare foot
Speaker 1: prance chris actually dropped one. Of his GoPros he had
Speaker 1: one on the front and one. On the back the
Speaker 1: one on the back of his head that he had
Speaker 1: on there came off. During the kerfuffle were actually. Looking
Speaker 1: for it it's, still out there. Ladies and gentlemen we
Speaker 1: don't have any idea. What's on it there may be
Speaker 1: a picture of a sasquatch picking it up. And sniffing it,
Speaker 1: We don't know, probably never know because it's still out.
Speaker 1: In the forest but we went back, the, next DAY
Speaker 1: man and i can't believe that any of us survived
Speaker 1: that without a broken leg or, a broken ankle especially
Speaker 1: flat out running the way. That we were, it was
Speaker 1: insane the dead fall and the trees and the jagged
Speaker 1: sticks and rocks and things that. We went over. But we,
Speaker 1: Survived and yeah i've. Said this before it goes back
Speaker 1: to your point earlier about being contested and being challenged
Speaker 1: when it comes. To your experiences i've always been. Open
Speaker 1: to that we run A group on facebook that has
Speaker 1: almost thirteen thousand members, At This point Bigfoot Encounters and Field,
Speaker 1: research On facebook and i've actually stopped admins in the
Speaker 1: group from ejecting people and muting people that were disagreeing
Speaker 1: with me about my EVIDENCE or what. I put, forward,
Speaker 1: i'm like no you're not going. To do that THAT'S exactly.
Speaker 1: WHAT i want i want people, that will say but?
Speaker 1: What about this then it makes me THINK and then
Speaker 1: i can, answer THE question or, i, can say yeah
Speaker 1: it's possible there was ambient light instead of them, being
Speaker 1: glowing eyes although it didn't appear that way. At the time. Is,
Speaker 1: that possible absolutely it's possible that it, was SOMETHING else
Speaker 1: because i think if you get to the point where
Speaker 1: you're Constantly drinking the, bigfoot kool aid everything else is just.
Speaker 1: A moot point, at this juncture there's nowhere to Go
Speaker 1: other than i'm. A diehard believer people still ask me.
Speaker 1: To this day i've, gotten messages saying how could you
Speaker 1: have an experience like that just last year and still.
Speaker 1: BE so skeptical i say it. All the time i'm
Speaker 1: Not skeptical. ABOUT bigfoot Anymore i know bigfoot Is real because.
Speaker 1: I've seen them i'm, skeptical about people, always have been
Speaker 1: always will be because people. Make shit up they want
Speaker 1: to be a part. Of the club they, Make up lies,
Speaker 1: they fake evidence. They hoax Videos that's what, i'm SKEPTICAL
Speaker 1: about and i. Always will be but without those. Kind
Speaker 1: OF conversations when i put out the FOOTPRINT cast that
Speaker 1: i did a couple of years ago, ON the property
Speaker 1: i knew what people were, going to say because they.
Speaker 1: Look too good they are too good comparatively speaking to
Speaker 1: some of the Other things that i've cast and some
Speaker 1: of The other things i've. SEEN people cast i knew
Speaker 1: that there was going to, be, people saying oh you.
Speaker 1: Just hoaxed that what's the chances of the bigfoot podcaster
Speaker 1: who just happens to have bigfoot on his property casting
Speaker 1: footprints sixty yards. FROM his house i don't know what.
Speaker 1: The odds are i'm just telling. You what happened but
Speaker 1: if you want, to examine them sure you. Can examine
Speaker 1: them i've Given, Them to cliff i've Given. THEM to
Speaker 1: jeff i actually Took them to Jeff up in gatlinburg
Speaker 1: just what last weekend because he had, seen the scans.
Speaker 1: He'd seen photos he'd just never held. The ACTUAL cast
Speaker 1: Because i sent, CLIFF a copy I didn't send. JEFF
Speaker 1: a copy i have no, problem BEING challenged and i
Speaker 1: think that's part of the problem with This community. That
Speaker 1: i've seen it's probably a conversation, for Another day but
Speaker 1: i've seen that so much in some of The, groups
Speaker 1: on facebook where you can't even challenge a person and
Speaker 1: you can't even ask a question about their photos or
Speaker 1: their videos or their air quote evidence that they're presenting
Speaker 1: because that's just not. What THEY'RE about and. I get
Speaker 1: it you can run your group. However you want Just
Speaker 1: Know that Bigfoot Encounters and field research. Group my group
Speaker 1: you're going to be. CHALLENGED hands down i don't care.
Speaker 1: Who you are that's, how, we learn man that's. How
Speaker 1: we grow and that's, what pushes this, in my opinion
Speaker 1: further down the field is everybody being skeptical about everything
Speaker 1: but being able to sit down and drink a beer
Speaker 1: and have a.
Speaker 3: Conversation, about IT absolutely and i think in some ways
Speaker 3: it's almost a natural progression of this kind of lines
Speaker 3: of inquiry fascinations is when they mature into either belief systems.
Speaker 3: OR scientific inquiry i think that's the choice that people.
Speaker 3: Have to make do you want to be part of
Speaker 3: The church of bigfoot or do you want to be
Speaker 3: part of The. STUDY of bigfoot i won't even attach science,
Speaker 3: there because again observations are really valuable without applying any.
Speaker 3: Kind of methodology my, third watching example we get lots of.
Speaker 3: Data THAT way but i hear so many people on,
Speaker 3: podcasts at CONFERENCES people that i talk to talking about
Speaker 3: wait till science, recognizes these things and so many organizations
Speaker 3: out there their mission is to get science to. Recognize
Speaker 3: these things, FOR those folks, I, would say okay, the
Speaker 3: question is it's not science changing to. Recognize these things
Speaker 3: it's using scientific methods to show that the data's overwhelming that,
Speaker 3: says watch exists and it's not proving anything because science.
Speaker 3: Doesn't prove things, mathematics has. Proofs that's geometry it's not getting.
Speaker 3: To the truth that's getting.
Speaker 1: To the facts and stay tuned For. More sasquat chodesy
Speaker 1: we'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: And how people want to. Go about that if you
Speaker 3: want to prove things to yourself and get to, your
Speaker 3: own truth that's about. Philosophy and religion that's. A belief system.
Speaker 3: That's TOTALLY fine but i think folks naturally fall. Into belief.
Speaker 3: Systems quite honestly maybe this is, my bias speaking but
Speaker 3: it's EASIER to say i believe this rather than methodically
Speaker 3: collecting data. LIKE you said i love, That, YOU said
Speaker 3: hey i haven't seen all. The video yet maybe there
Speaker 3: was a light somewhere controlling for all the variables you
Speaker 3: can and you just left the door open for let's
Speaker 3: control for those variables before we. Make definitive statements that's.
Speaker 3: PART of science i love the idea of sasquatch. Being,
Speaker 3: Out there again, i'll, say it man since you have.
Speaker 3: Had Your experience, Now, i'm Like okay now i'm really
Speaker 3: QUESTIONING stuff because i JUST feel like i understand where.
Speaker 3: You're Coming from and i've Been on With cliff and
Speaker 3: bobo a Few times and matt, a FEW times and
Speaker 3: i love THOSE guys and i, appreciate THEIR perspective but
Speaker 3: i don't have the same. Kind of connection and they
Speaker 3: have been in the game for so long and they have.
Speaker 3: Had THEIR experiences when, i met them, they, Were like no,
Speaker 3: i'm telling you these, things Are real, And, i'm like.
Speaker 3: Okay we'll see let's talk about what this. DEAL is
Speaker 3: again i appreciate. YOU sharing that i really appreciate that
Speaker 3: you shared about the EMOTIONAL component because i think that needs, to.
Speaker 3: BE normalized right i think people. Need, to, realize look
Speaker 3: man if you're out on a hike and a mountain
Speaker 3: lion is stalking you and you, figure it out and
Speaker 3: you see that thing's tail as, it goes off and
Speaker 3: you feel yourself not being able to catch your breath
Speaker 3: and you feel yourself getting a. Little weld up even
Speaker 3: if you, have an outburst don't kick yourself and think
Speaker 3: that you're somehow weak. Or you're this that's just a
Speaker 3: human reaction, and it's, OKAY quite HONESTLY i hope i
Speaker 3: get to have. One of THOSE it's something i.
Speaker 1: Hope SO too and i had to admit to it because.
Speaker 1: THEY filmed it i was crying. In the documentaries it's
Speaker 1: going to be out there in perpetuity for everybody to
Speaker 1: see from Now on When My big foot life. Does
Speaker 1: come out it's. A great documentary i've seen a rough
Speaker 1: cut from. SEVERAL months ago i think it's an awesome
Speaker 1: documentary and we'll certainly talk more about it on the
Speaker 1: show and let you guys know when. It comes out
Speaker 1: obviously we'll be promoting it so you guys.
Speaker 3: Can.
Speaker 1: Watch it man there's so MUCH stuff that i had
Speaker 1: in the hopper that we didn't get to today that
Speaker 1: just means we'll have to have you back and you
Speaker 1: have to do. More of these i'll put these back
Speaker 1: in the hopper and we'll pull them out on. The
Speaker 1: next show if there's something you guys want to hear,
Speaker 1: us talk about you want To Get doctor hogan, chiros
Speaker 1: opinion on or you just want to hear us chew the,
Speaker 1: fat over it send Me an Email brian at. Paranormberworldproductions
Speaker 1: dot com get edited, to the website leave us. A
Speaker 1: voicemail there it comes. Directly to me we get those.
Speaker 1: Every single day so if there's something you want us
Speaker 1: to talk about on, a future episode. Let us know
Speaker 1: hit us up because We will have hogan back on
Speaker 1: the show sooner. Rather, Than later man i've had a
Speaker 1: good time. Talking to you i'm glad, you Were on
Speaker 1: and i'm looking forward to the next conversation so we
Speaker 1: can dig into some of these other topics we didn't. Get, to, TODAY.
Speaker 3: Absolutely man i appreciate you bringing. Me on that it's
Speaker 3: great to chat with you and just shoot things back
Speaker 3: and forth to see how. IT turns out i never
Speaker 3: know where conversations are, going to lead and that's PART
Speaker 3: of what i. LOVE about it i look forward to.
Speaker 6: More of, them they say you don't, gotta go home but.
Speaker 5: YOU can't stay.
Speaker 6: I want To be.
Speaker 5: Happened, jo this job. Job every day call, me king back,
Speaker 5: joy for me, Joy staying right.
Speaker 6: You come. It right away, side still sat side still
Speaker 6: as bass in the state passss STATE as fast us
Speaker 6: states instances