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Speaker 1: That I have is the defendant's.

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Speaker 2: Motion for change and venue.

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Speaker 1: A toney, ragged and I'll hear you on that.

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Speaker 3: Think you you runner first of all, change a venue obviously,

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as the court is certainly well aware from your own

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defense practice, as well as as a judge, is a

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matter that's really invested in the sound discretion of the court.

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And as consul and her opposition noted that you are

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more than capable of acquiring up jurors in a sensitive

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way to feroughly probe them to any biases or prejudices

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that may exist.

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Speaker 4: We're all aware.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that you're associate judge for any are denied

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the motion and change a venue. On another high profile case,

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the Walsh Matter and Denham Superior Court a couple of

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days ago, her findings were obviously very detailed, just.

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Speaker 4: As your honner would make findings.

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Speaker 3: As I stand here now, I understand that it's an

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uphill battle to get a court.

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Speaker 4: To change venue. I know this. I mean I represented

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Thomas Tulan.

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Speaker 3: I'm well aware of the issues that are involved in

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a motion for a change of venue. I do not

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have any concern about the people or the citizens of

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the County of Plymouth and their ability to sit in.

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Speaker 4: Judgment in this case and be objective at fair.

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Speaker 3: My concern is the overwhelming nature of the publicity in

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a case such as this, which is readily understandable. My

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understanding of the law is that I have an obligation

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that I have to file a motion for a change

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of venue. Provide the court with exhibits or documentation that

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would allow you to determine whether or not there's been

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a saturation of the county, if you will. I've requested

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that the matter be transferred to Suffolk Superior Court. I

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think that the City of Boston is in a situation

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where it would be more likely to obtain a jury

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that would be less exposed to the hysterical.

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Speaker 4: Publicity that has been involved with this case.

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Speaker 3: Without understanding looking at the law, I understand that the

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court is in a position where as many courts do,

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can deny the motion and defer the matter to the

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time of trial and see how it shakes out as

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far as individual of what deal with jurors.

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Speaker 4: I still have to file the motion.

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Speaker 3: I still feel in good faith that it's a matter

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that would be best sent to Suffolk County for trial

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with the understanding that is in the instructions from the

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Tooling case from the Supreme Judicial Court that in that case,

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obviously I raised the issue I had the motion before

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the judge was denied, and that ultimately it was flipped.

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As Console points out, there was a number of other

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issues that were involved with the actual and panel and

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process in that case. But nevertheless it's a initie that

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the court can consider. So I'm asking that you consider

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the poluminous exhibits that have been attached.

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Speaker 4: I know that.

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Speaker 3: District attorney in opposition made note of the fact that

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I was kind of holding court down the first full

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there the day of the I think it was the

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arrayment in this court. Anybody that knows me knows that

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I generally do not court. If you will the media,

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I'm generally know not to give interviews. I I quite

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frankly don't like to do interviews.

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Speaker 4: And things of that nature.

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Speaker 3: I was confronted by a c in a wall of

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reporters and cameras when I was trying to leave here

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with doctor Ziazel after we did the arrayment in this case.

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Obviously just grabbed understandably the emotions of the public, and

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we had heard rightfully so, from the government as to

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the police and the investigation and the emotion involved with

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the police and the fire department, and we had the

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chief of police making statements that she's going to be okay,

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She's going to be walking and playing soccer within a week,

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she's not paralyzed, everything's fine, which is all quite frankly

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not true. I tried to respond to the questions that

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were raised. Rather than just like Moses patting the red sea,

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walking through the wall of people saying no comment, I

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said simply that this is a case that involves itself

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with medication over medication, Postpottum psychosis, Postpottum depression, all hot

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button issues that certainly impacted on a woman who by

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all accounts neighbors, friends, co workers, amazing individual and a

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loving mother, that all of a sudden would be involved

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with such a horrific act, and everybody wanted to know why,

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what was the understanding as to what happened, Without getting

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into the details of any investigation by the government or

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by the defense. I tried to respond to that so

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I was not creating a media frenzy by any means,

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and that has carried through with the reporting everone knows

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that we're in a very strange time as far as

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electronic media, YouTube podcasts, people that criticize the clothes you

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wear as an attorney, the way you walk around the

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court room, the questions that you make, the electronic surveillance,

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if you will, at the public it's amazing. So dealing

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with that and understanding the intense publicity that has surrounded

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this case, I think it is a legitimate motion. I

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would ask that you act favorably on it, understanding if

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you deny it, that it would be renewed at the

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time of trial in accordance with cool.

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Speaker 5: Alright, thank you, call m over, thank ron, I come mold.

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Would ask that you deny the emotion forge to a venue,

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mainly because the defendant has not met its his bird

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and her burden based under under the law, there are

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five characteristics or or criteria that the courts look at

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that I I went into depth in my memos, so

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I'll just highlight briefly, but the time that has lapsed

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in this case has been three years, which is similar

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to other cases that the SGC as upheld as enough

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time has passed to not negate the impact of the

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event on the community, but toul it uh dull the

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impact somewhat. Also, uh the community size and make up,

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this is a very different community and make up than

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in the Tooling case. In the Tooling case, that defense

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sites it wasn't overturned because of presumptive prejudice because of

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the presumably the jury pool would be prejudiced, but actual

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prejudice because it was such a small community of about

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ten thousand people who all or mostly all new the

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either the victim or her family, or interconnected with witnesses

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in the police. So it's a very different situation in

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that case. As well as Lady both site to Plymouth

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County as being a different type of county that's more urban,

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that's bigger in size, and the defendant will be afforded

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a diverse jury pool in this county. Also, the circumstances

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of the crime haven't set the community against this defendant.

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There have been no protests, no marches, no demonstrations that

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you can see in other cases that the s JAC

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has determined that there needed to be a change of venue.

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We don't have any of that here. As to the

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word are, of course, RONA will do an in depth,

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thoughtful Wardaiir to protect the defendant's right to a fair

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and impartial trial. As as far as the media being

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not being highly prejudicial, I think that's also true in

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this case. Most of the reporting, even the articles that

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defense is attached to motion, are not against the defendant.

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They represent or they describe each side's view of the case,

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but they don't give opinions as to which is corrector

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or go into hyper into details about the case or

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our positions. And Defense did participate.

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Speaker 1: In some of that media.

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Speaker 5: I understand that he said he went down after the arrangement,

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was confronted with this wall of media and he felt

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the need to clarify some things. But he did give

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an interview to The New Yorker and that articles published

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just about a year ago in October twenty twenty four,

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where he gave some thoughts on this case. And one

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of his expert, doctor Phil Resnik, was also interviewed by

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The New Yorker and gave thoughts on this case. So

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whatever is out there in terms of their defense was

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put out there by the defense. I think we also

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have to consider the fact that the day and age

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we live in, it's not a day and age where

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there's local media and everything's condensed in one area. Local

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media even you know, the Patriot Letder or the Enterprise

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can be read by someone in Germany. You know, it's

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everything is everywhere, and moving it to Suffolk I don't

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think would help in any way because many of the

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articles are from the Boston Globe, the Boston Herald. The

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media is you know, Channel five, all the local news

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stations as well as national publications. So the entire commonwealth

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has been exposed to all this media. It's nothing particular

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that only citizens in Plymouth County have been exposed to.

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So I think the fact that time has passed, the

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size of the community, the nature of the press at

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this point, and then the work your Honor will do

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with Consul to ensure that we have the feared and

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partial jury. I don't think it necessitates rises to the

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level of needing a change of venue.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, I've had an opportunity to read the

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definite's motion, along with the exhibits the almost opposition.

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Speaker 1: At this point, I'm going to deny motion to change venue.

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Speaker 2: I will issue a written decision on this in the

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next day or two. But I just I had the

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opportunity to review all the pleadings and all the case

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law in regards to this, so that motion would be.

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Speaker 4: Denied, all right.

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Speaker 1: So the next issue that we have to address really

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is again some.

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Speaker 2: Of these just kind of the logistical issues in regards

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to the transportation of the defendant.

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Speaker 1: And other kind of related issues. Now I've asked and

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the Sheriff's Offices.

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Speaker 2: Is here represented by Turning Kenny, and I was hoping

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that Turning Kenny you could kind of tell us what

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would be available in regards to transportation of somebody like

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Mss Clancy in her physical condition.

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Speaker 6: Yes, thank you, or Jessica Kenny on behalf of the

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Sheriff's Department in anticipation of behave that the department received.

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Speaker 1: Originally we had been ordered to bring her here on

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this day.

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Speaker 6: I asked our medical department to reach out to the

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medical department at Twoksbury Hospital. Is what often happens when

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there's a continuity of care issue, and I did bring

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with me our HSA, that's our Health Services Administrator in

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case the court has any follow up. But she did

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reach out to the medical team there and she did

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learn that Mss Clancy is confined to a wheelchair. However,

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she can self transfer and she can provide self care

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in virtually all aspects of a day trip like this

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to the courthouse. And the only thing that Tewksbury was

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requesting was that we tr transport her via a wheelchair van,

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which the Sheriff's Department does have one of those vans available.

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She would be able to be put onto the van

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in her wheelchair, understanding that there may be a very

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rare instance where she made needs some basic medical assistance.

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Speaker 1: We as well.

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Speaker 6: I spoke with the HSA about having a nurse schedule

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to go on the van as well. There's a drop

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seat in the back of that van, so there would

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be two deputies or corrections officers obviously in the front

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of the van, and Ms Clancy would go in the

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back of that van, and there could also be a

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nurse that could accompany her in a rare instance where

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she may need assistance.

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Speaker 1: I won't discuss that here.

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Speaker 6: If you'd like, I could go to side bar further.

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Speaker 4: But and so that was all that the medical.

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Speaker 6: Staff at Tuksbury indicated that she required. They did report

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that she's pleasant, that she's.

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Speaker 1: Quiet, that a wheelchair van was appropriate.

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Speaker 6: She can independently move, she can independently transfer and the

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vast majority of her medical needs that arise on a

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day to day basis, she can care for herself. So

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with that being said, that was our plan was to

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send that van. Subsequently, I learned that mister Reddington filed

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a request under the ADA. Interestingly enough, he filed it

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to the trial court. He has not made that request

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to the Sheriff's apartment yet. I did reach out and

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try to contact mister Reddington answer. I did not hear back.

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If the inmate were to Miss Clancy were to make

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that request to the Sheriff's apartment, obviously we have many

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inmates in our care that require an accommodation under the ADA,

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we would engage in the interactive processes required under the

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law with Miss Clancy through her attorney, mister Reddington. I

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did review the report of the psychologist that was provided.

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Speaker 1: You know what strikes me about it is.

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Speaker 6: It doesn't seem as a request for a combination. It

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re seems as a request for a change in custody status.

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I don't know how someone can be in custody and

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it acts as like a buffet. If you will, I

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want you to pay for.

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Speaker 4: My medical care. I want you to provide me protection.

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Speaker 6: I want you to pay for my transportation, but I

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don't want to be searched.

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Speaker 1: I don't want the handcuffs.

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Speaker 6: That's obviously very troubling from a correctional standpoint, because obviously,

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if mss Clancy is remanded to our care, which she

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is at this point because she's held without.

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Speaker 1: Bail, we have received a hate from.

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Speaker 6: The court to transport her. She becomes our responsibility, our liability.

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She's in our care and custody, and our officers are

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very good at what they do, and they weigh a

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lot of security factors, and the courts, even in conducting

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an ADA analysis, give a lot of deference to jails

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and houses of corrections and the security measures that they employ.

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I understand the doctor opines that she is not a

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flight risk and she is not a harm a risk

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of harm to others, and even taking all of that

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at face value, assuming that's true, it really fails to

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address two major components that the Sheriff's Department is concerned about,

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and one would be a fear of harm to herself.

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There is a history here that obviously would trigger certain

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precautions from a security standpoint, to make sure that Miss

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Clancy did not try to harm herself, and one I

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think that often go overlooked would be the concern about

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harm from others. This case has received worldwide attention, and

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while certainly there are many sympathizers with mss Clancy, there

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are certainly other people that very outwardly vilify her for

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the charges that she has been indicted on, and so

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there is always a concern with a high profile inmate

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that someone may act out on those It'd be very unlawful,

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but obviously could certainly act out on those impulses, and

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that's one of the other things about having security in place.

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I know there's been some talk about letting her walk

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in the court or come in the courthouse from the front,

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as opposed to the Sally Port