Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to the best ever You show.
Speaker 1: I'm Elizabeth Hamilton Garino. Thank you for being here with us.
Speaker 1: I have author Greg Kaplan with me today. He is
Speaker 1: the author of the journey How to Prepare Kids for
Speaker 1: a competitive and changing World. Greg, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me today. Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you have pivoted careers a little bit
Speaker 1: and kind of heard I read somewhere that you were
Speaker 1: in the financial services industry and pivoted to a totally
Speaker 1: different career. Now have a book out, am I correct?
Speaker 2: You are correct?
Speaker 3: I am a reformed or burnt out investment banker turned
Speaker 3: college admissions expert or strategists.
Speaker 2: So I went from.
Speaker 3: Helping companies sell themselves to helping young people figure out
Speaker 3: what makes them ticks so they could then market themselves
Speaker 3: to the schools they wish to attend.
Speaker 1: And tell me why you did that. So you just
Speaker 1: got sick of being in the financial services industry. I've
Speaker 1: won toe in the financial services industry too, well, kind
Speaker 1: of half of me. My husband is a federal securities lawyer.
Speaker 3: Oh amazing. I'm also a lawyer by training. So I
Speaker 3: my journey to becoming a college admissions advisor. Really started
Speaker 3: as an investment banker when it was my ticket out
Speaker 3: of work every day before two am, when I would
Speaker 3: talk to some of the senior bankers at the firm
Speaker 3: I was at on Wall Street and they would ask,
Speaker 3: how did you get into a school like Penn And
Speaker 3: I would say, well, I developed a plan to market
Speaker 3: myself and to really you know, show my ability to
Speaker 3: add value to the to the organizations that I was
Speaker 3: applying for the universities, and they would say, gosh, that
Speaker 3: sounds like actually quite smart.
Speaker 2: Can you come give my kid at pep Talk?
Speaker 3: And I, at that point, my twenty four year old self,
Speaker 3: was much more inclined to go over to some person
Speaker 3: that I worked with house for dinner to give their
Speaker 3: kid at pep Talk rather than be running, you know,
Speaker 3: pro forma analysis at two am, so that it was
Speaker 3: out of almost necessity. And I people kept saying, gosh,
Speaker 3: you got to write this into a book one day.
Speaker 3: And that was my first book. And I've been, you know,
Speaker 3: doing this full time for the last seven years.
Speaker 1: So is the book for parents or for kids or
Speaker 1: who's it for?
Speaker 3: So the Journey, which I published with HCI and May
Speaker 3: at twenty twenty four. I actually wrote to both parents
Speaker 3: and students, So it alternates one chapter to the parents.
Speaker 3: Because the journey to college, as you're well aware of Elizabeth,
Speaker 3: as a team sport, you really need everyone in the
Speaker 3: family be aligned, not just because the cost, but because
Speaker 3: it just takes so much at Emford and sometimes a
Speaker 3: young person really does know how to navigate themselves. So
Speaker 3: it alternates chapter to parents, chapters to students, and it
Speaker 3: goes back and forth because I want everyone to be
Speaker 3: on the same page, which is sometimes hard with the teenager.
Speaker 1: Is this for kids that need to get into Harvard
Speaker 1: or you know, Penn or Georgetown or Stanford or Bale
Speaker 1: or sis. For all levels of colleges, all levels of students,
Speaker 1: and what about students that don't want to go on
Speaker 1: to college?
Speaker 3: So this book is not just for the ivy or busters,
Speaker 3: which we call them in my office. This book is
Speaker 3: for everyone who is seeking to make the most of
Speaker 3: their path to colleging career. There's not one college that
Speaker 3: has a monopoly on the path to success, and where
Speaker 3: one goes is not who.
Speaker 2: They will be.
Speaker 3: I had better job prospects coming out of U see
Speaker 3: Irvine School of Law, which at the time was unranked
Speaker 3: than I did coming out of Warton, which is the
Speaker 3: top rings business school the United States. So what this
Speaker 3: really is is to try to get families to move
Speaker 3: past the Harvard or Bust mentality, which I think is
Speaker 3: pervasive in a lot of high achieving, affluent communities, and
Speaker 3: to help people visualize success and their path to however
Speaker 3: they define it through, whether it's college or another path.
Speaker 3: So this book is for everyone's about developing three key
Speaker 3: traits that can be developed as part of the journey
Speaker 3: to college, but also can be out. So no, it's
Speaker 3: not just for the Yeah, the Harvard or Stanford Stanfords.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and are people saying, hey, mister Kaplan, can you
Speaker 1: help me get in here?
Speaker 3: A lot of the families, you know, it's interesting. When
Speaker 3: I first started my practice seven years ago, a lot
Speaker 3: of the folks were very much I really am targeting
Speaker 3: a Harvard to Stanford, at UCLA, at University of Michigan.
Speaker 3: But the conversation's really changed to how do I make
Speaker 3: this process work for me? And I think that's a
Speaker 3: very healthy conversation to have. I think these schools are
Speaker 3: so competitive to get into that it requires us to
Speaker 3: be creative and flexible, and that's really what I'm trying
Speaker 3: to spread the message to as a way to address
Speaker 3: team mental health, to address family angst and anxiety over
Speaker 3: paying for this for college.
Speaker 2: That is because it's so expensive, it is so overprised,
Speaker 2: and so.
Speaker 3: There is still a lot of that. But that has
Speaker 3: been the most pleasant change in my practice is that.
Speaker 3: And we joke like the Harvard or Iveyer busters, like
Speaker 3: that's a lot less and it should be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, when So we've got four sons there now
Speaker 1: this year they turned twenty three, twenty five, twenty seven,
Speaker 1: and twenty nine, and we have we just finished the
Speaker 1: master's degree portion of everyone's educations. Yes, thank you. So
Speaker 1: we've been in college now, my husband, I feel like
Speaker 1: we've gone back multiple times. We've been in college since
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, so that is eleven years of paying for
Speaker 1: college for multiple kids in school at once. At one
Speaker 1: point we had all four in college at once. So
Speaker 1: you can imagine the bills and the rent and the food,
Speaker 1: tuition and everything for us, can't you.
Speaker 3: I'm getting anxious just listening to talk about that. At
Speaker 3: least you're done, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are, We're done. Although our youngest wants to
Speaker 1: continue on to medical school. So we may have a conversation,
Speaker 1: but you know, so that's that's us and our kids.
Speaker 1: It was interesting because, in fact, if you put all
Speaker 1: six of us together, we went to all types of
Speaker 1: different schools, from University of New Haven to Saint Amber's
Speaker 1: University in Davenport, Iowa, to Rutgers to Georgetown to University
Speaker 1: of Maine ri T in Rochester, New York. I think
Speaker 1: I said University of New Haven. I mean all different
Speaker 1: kinds of schools. Do you talk about how different schools
Speaker 1: fit different students?
Speaker 3: Yes, and I think that's the biggest thing, and that
Speaker 3: makes me so happy to hear, because this is not
Speaker 3: a one size fits all approach when it comes to college.
Speaker 3: And yes, there are some schools that are brands, and
Speaker 3: I use this intentionally when we're talking about college or
Speaker 3: grad school or the journey to being fulfilled and to
Speaker 3: being However, can we use define the word successful because
Speaker 3: I think that's different for everyone. But this is not
Speaker 3: getting a hood ornament for a car. This is not
Speaker 3: getting a design purse to put on one shoulder. This
Speaker 3: is an experience, and so we really do want people
Speaker 3: to find schools and to embrace the mentality about making
Speaker 3: this work for you, not the other way around.
Speaker 2: You know, the journey.
Speaker 3: You mentioned that your son is potentially applying to medical school,
Speaker 3: and there are some schools that are really good fits
Speaker 3: at an undergraduate level to prepare people for the journey
Speaker 3: to medicine, for example. And I always use example when
Speaker 3: I tell students, because I would say about maybe ten
Speaker 3: to twenty percent of the students we work with want
Speaker 3: to be doctors. And I would say half of my hall,
Speaker 3: of my dorm hall, my freshman year of Pen was
Speaker 3: pre med. But Penn is one of those places where
Speaker 3: there's so much academic pressure, and the grading is so intense,
Speaker 3: and your classes are graded on a curve, so your
Speaker 3: grade is not necessarily I got a ninety and a
Speaker 3: test reports in A. But if I'm in the top
Speaker 3: ten or twenty percent of my class at five hundred
Speaker 3: kids who happened, I'll be the smartest kids from their
Speaker 3: high school.
Speaker 2: Then I get an A.
Speaker 3: And so I always tell students if they want to
Speaker 3: go to medical school, we need to find schools where
Speaker 3: the grading practices make sense, where the research opportunities to
Speaker 3: you know, to bolster one's resume are easy to obtain
Speaker 3: and where there's service opportunities. So we have kids to
Speaker 3: say we.
Speaker 2: Want to go.
Speaker 3: I live in California and Irvine, and there's a very
Speaker 3: popul university here. You see Santa Barbara's on the beach.
Speaker 3: It's a great school. The only problem for UCSPC is
Speaker 3: there's no hospital attached to it, and so if you
Speaker 3: want to go do research or medical volunteering, you have
Speaker 3: to look elsewhere in the summer. So it's an amazing school.
Speaker 3: It may not be the greatest place to go become
Speaker 3: a doctor at though, and so it's really about making
Speaker 3: this work for you. And Asus is like a concrete example.
Speaker 3: But yes, we really want all different types of schools
Speaker 3: because there's all different types of people on all different
Speaker 3: price points too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember when you mentioned the curve. I remember
Speaker 1: when I was in college one hundred thousand years ago.
Speaker 1: I was at the University of Iowa and I walked
Speaker 1: into my freshman math class, took my test, you know,
Speaker 1: did all my stuff, and it was graded on a curve,
Speaker 1: and I nearly fell out of my rocker point. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I've never even heard of this before. I come from
Speaker 1: a school of two hundred and seven kids in Pleasant Valley, Iowa.
Speaker 1: And Wow, I just was blown away. And I didn't
Speaker 1: do terrible or anything like that, but I didn't get
Speaker 1: an A. And it was like the first time in
Speaker 1: my life where I didn't get an A And I'm like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: you know kind of thing. And so I think there's
Speaker 1: that there's that freshman adjustment period where things change. You're
Speaker 1: not at home, the grading's different, the school's big or smaller.
Speaker 1: You're on your own. If you get sick, you don't
Speaker 1: you know. If you get sick and you're far away
Speaker 1: from home, you can't go home. All these things factor
Speaker 1: into school, and I don't know if everybody's thinking that way.
Speaker 3: What I would say is like, we want people to
Speaker 3: recognize though, that there are going to be challenges and
Speaker 3: that again it's even finding the right place for you.
Speaker 3: If a young person's dealing with a lot of anxiety
Speaker 3: or just being in the most competitive school environment may
Speaker 3: not be the right fit.
Speaker 2: And so sometimes it's a small school.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's a large school where the anonymity doesn't feel
Speaker 3: like there's a spotlight and that's okay, let's play to
Speaker 3: our strengths.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of talking right now about how
Speaker 1: expensive school is and whether it's worth it or not.
Speaker 1: pH debates going on about the value of college, how
Speaker 1: we're going to pay for college, if we're going to
Speaker 1: have loans, no loans, payoff loans, loans forgiven all over
Speaker 1: the place is college for everyone these days?
Speaker 2: And I'm so glad you bring this up. College.
Speaker 3: A public university, a place like the University of Iowa,
Speaker 3: when you factor in room and board if you're not
Speaker 3: living at home, could be close to thirty to forty
Speaker 3: thousand dollars per year, and a private university can be
Speaker 3: is approaching one hundred thousand dollars now per year, and
Speaker 3: to have four hundred thousand dollars of student loans and
Speaker 3: maybe not the right job prospects that would ever allow
Speaker 3: a young person to pay that off is I don't
Speaker 3: think that makes sense for everyone, and there are a
Speaker 3: lot of other pathways to be fulfilled in life. However,
Speaker 3: we define that in terms of we always tell young
Speaker 3: people we work with we want them to be healthy, happy,
Speaker 3: and financial independent. And if someone's dream is too and
Speaker 3: you could be an entrepreneur, being a you know, an
Speaker 3: air conditioned and service technician, you could you could build
Speaker 3: up a practice, you could hire other technicians. It doesn't
Speaker 3: have to be, you know, a computer programmer. So I
Speaker 3: think young people really have to have a sense of
Speaker 3: what they enjoy to do, whether it's interacting with people,
Speaker 3: building things, fixing things, helping people, and then try to
Speaker 3: understand how educational pathways fit for that. And if a
Speaker 3: young person really doesn't know what they want to do
Speaker 3: or doesn't know if college is right for them, they
Speaker 3: can always start at a junior college and transfer because
Speaker 3: that is a low cost way to stay at home,
Speaker 3: start earning credits that allow them to discover more as
Speaker 3: they go. I think you have four kids who are
Speaker 3: you know, emerging from their educational journeys. We don't necessarily
Speaker 3: do the best job, and I think you'd agree in
Speaker 3: helping young people figure out what they want to do
Speaker 3: or how their educations make sense for their life goals.
Speaker 3: And so sometimes it just takes a little bit more
Speaker 3: time or experience, especially coming on the pandemic where we
Speaker 3: are very isolated and not interacting with the world as much.
Speaker 1: Oh, I would tell you in a heartbeat, if you
Speaker 1: look at all the different kids that come out of
Speaker 1: high school. I think there's so much pressure on kids
Speaker 1: coming out of high school to like have it all
Speaker 1: figured out, and they feel like, well, I, you know,
Speaker 1: I have to choose my major, and boy, I can't
Speaker 1: change I've got to There's so much pressure to choose
Speaker 1: a major and stick with it, and if you change
Speaker 1: your major, you're in school longer and you've disappointed parents
Speaker 1: and people and this and that. And I think I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I would hope you would change and maybe
Speaker 1: not change your major per se, but if you need
Speaker 1: to go for it. But I hope as you enter
Speaker 1: college that things change and shift around for you and
Speaker 1: you find what you love and discover your passions and
Speaker 1: all of these things. And I really don't think that
Speaker 1: you're able to do that from the comfort of high
Speaker 1: school or discomfort of high school, whichever one it is,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I don't know what is needed,
Speaker 1: But I think more experience with all of the different
Speaker 1: careers and things that you can do with your life
Speaker 1: should be presented, maybe almost in like a gap year
Speaker 1: before you're even allowed to go to college or more
Speaker 1: credit after high school. There needs to be some kind
Speaker 1: of a better segue right in there, because some people know
Speaker 1: they want to go to medical school when they're ten,
Speaker 1: and other people figure it out when they're you know, thirty,
Speaker 1: You know exactly.
Speaker 2: Europeans take a gap year.
Speaker 3: I think you mentioned that, you know, one of your
Speaker 3: sons had spent some time in Germany's over there right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, play in baseball.
Speaker 3: Which is fantastic people in Europe because when you apply
Speaker 3: to university in Europe, you're applying for a specific program
Speaker 3: and you can't change once you get there. The United States,
Speaker 3: we give you a lot of flexibility to change your major.
Speaker 3: The problem is that we have no direction when we're
Speaker 3: heading there. So I'm a big believer in a gap year.
Speaker 3: I'm a big believer in real world experience. And that's
Speaker 3: what we're advising people with their ninth graders is you
Speaker 3: say you want to be a doctor, let's go get
Speaker 3: you volunteering in a hospital, because that you don't have
Speaker 3: to love it, but you need to see if that's
Speaker 3: the setting you want to work in. I never would
Speaker 3: have gone to law school had I shadowed or observed
Speaker 3: a lawyer other than my own dad, because I was like, gosh,
Speaker 3: it's great working with my dad, and I was in
Speaker 3: law school, I had like kind of my arrest of
Speaker 3: development moment, Like within the first five minutes of class.
Speaker 3: My first class was like I made a terrible mistake.
Speaker 3: I should not be here. And then I spent the
Speaker 3: next three years trying to figure out something else. And
Speaker 3: that's me finding my calling, which is what I'm doing now.
Speaker 3: But that was a really rough time in the wilderness
Speaker 3: for me because I never done that exploration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in our school here, I'm in Falmouth, Maine, and
Speaker 1: our Falmouth High School requires you to do thirty five
Speaker 1: hours of community service plus a job shadow in order
Speaker 1: to graduate. So I think that that was really tricky
Speaker 1: because not everybody knew what they wanted to do. But
Speaker 1: our kids actually kind of used that to their benefit.
Speaker 1: We've had And here's another thing I would say too.
Speaker 1: You know, when you have children, sometimes they do show
Speaker 1: kind of their gifts and talents when they're little, and
Speaker 1: you just got to pay kind of closer attention or
Speaker 1: close attention to it. Because we have four very different boys.
Speaker 1: One of them, for example, would constantly look up in
Speaker 1: the sky and look at the weather and notice the weather.
Speaker 1: He's a meteorologist, so he did his job shadow with
Speaker 1: Charlie La Presty at WGME. He put a he did
Speaker 1: multiple hours with community service with the environment. He put
Speaker 1: a weather van on the top of the school and
Speaker 1: on and on. Our other son started throwing things around
Speaker 1: with his left hand kindly when he was about six
Speaker 1: months old, and we're like, oh my, he like looks
Speaker 1: like he was a pitcher or baseball player or something.
Speaker 1: And so he from a really young age always knew
Speaker 1: he wanted to play baseball and that is exactly what
Speaker 1: he's doing. So you know, people do that. Sometimes people
Speaker 1: don't have that figured out though, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: what do I do with my life? And that's even
Speaker 1: it's your college English degree or your history degree, or
Speaker 1: your whatever degree it is. Sometimes the degree doesn't point
Speaker 1: sometimes to the same thing, like as cut and dried,
Speaker 1: as like a medical degree or pre law degree or
Speaker 1: an or a engineering degree or something like that. They
Speaker 1: can be tricky. It can be tricky to figure out
Speaker 1: what you want to do. I know that was a
Speaker 1: long story, but.
Speaker 3: No, no, but it's the stories that we need to
Speaker 3: be telling because I think kids feel so much pressure
Speaker 3: and then also we don't necessarily I think once you
Speaker 3: have a general sense and the other thing we always
Speaker 3: have to acknowledge is like with AI and globalization and
Speaker 3: just changes to like the way jobs are done, is
Speaker 3: that there's gonna be a lot of changes jobs in
Speaker 3: the coming years, and just career paths that are so
Speaker 3: different from what you and I have faced.
Speaker 2: But everything kind of starts to work together when you
Speaker 2: have a general sense you enjoy.
Speaker 3: And so I think it's a prioritizing where we're going
Speaker 3: to college, like like the question of where are we
Speaker 3: going to where are we going to college versus why
Speaker 3: do we want to go to college or what do
Speaker 3: we want to do with our college degree.
Speaker 2: I think that can really take the pressure.
Speaker 3: Off of us trying to like fit ourselves into one
Speaker 3: of these boxes for like does it have to be
Speaker 3: a Boston college or does it have to be like
Speaker 3: out here like a univers u c LA or something
Speaker 3: like that's just really really hard to get into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you the story of our oldest son,
Speaker 1: just real briefly. You know, our oldest son was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to go to the University of Maine. So
Speaker 1: there he was up there, and he decided pretty quickly
Speaker 1: that he didn't want to go to the University of Maine.
Speaker 1: In fact, he didn't want to go to college at all,
Speaker 1: and he was like, this is the worst experience. I
Speaker 1: don't want to sit through four years of college. I
Speaker 1: do not want to be in debt. I do not
Speaker 1: want to do this. And we were like, that's fine.
Speaker 1: Just as nic as you're We said the same thing.
Speaker 1: You're healthy, happy, and how what are we going to
Speaker 1: do to make you financially independent? You know kind of thing.
Speaker 1: What are you going to do then if you don't
Speaker 1: want to do this, And he was like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to get a job. And now he is the senior
Speaker 1: buyer for Performance Food Group and they did put him
Speaker 1: through leadership school and things like that, but he does
Speaker 1: not have he has three and a half years of school.
Speaker 1: He quit in his senior year. Ever having any stories
Speaker 1: like that, we've.
Speaker 3: Actually had, we had a student that we were working
Speaker 3: we're now actually working with her younger brother. We started
Speaker 3: working with her on the pathway to start a junior
Speaker 3: college and transfer to a four year university in Los Angeles,
Speaker 3: but she ended up getting a job as in production
Speaker 3: on a TV show and has already been promoted. And
Speaker 3: the decision she came to was like, gosh, like I'm
Speaker 3: going to go to college to do exactly what I'm
Speaker 3: doing now, Like maybe I'll go part time or try
Speaker 3: to fit it in later in life. And it doesn't
Speaker 3: necessarily easier to find the time to do it, especially
Speaker 3: if you have personal commitments like with a relationship or
Speaker 3: a family. But we were really really happy for the student,
Speaker 3: like extremely happy, because it's like she has a purpose
Speaker 3: and she's enjoying life and.
Speaker 2: She was.
Speaker 3: The decision really came down it's like, do I want
Speaker 3: to take on two hundred thousandars of debt for something
Speaker 3: that I don't necessarily need? And so the answer should
Speaker 3: be noted that that's common sense, Like yes, I'm a
Speaker 3: part of the higher education landscape. But I'll be the
Speaker 3: first to say, but it's not right for everyone, and
Speaker 3: there's no shame in that. We need to also destigmatize,
Speaker 3: like college, going to college shouldn't be a rite of
Speaker 3: passage to becoming an adult. It should be an experience
Speaker 3: that equips a person to do whatever it is that
Speaker 3: they seek to do.
Speaker 2: On the other side, but if.
Speaker 1: Your parents are pressuring you to go to Harvard or
Speaker 1: go to Yale, or you better get into Princeton, darn it.
Speaker 1: I went there, whatever it is, and you don't want
Speaker 1: to or you too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So what I often tell people and a lot of times,
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna say it's more to the parents than
Speaker 3: the young people that young person is potentially listening to
Speaker 3: to me speak right now, is that we need to
Speaker 3: make wanting your child to go to Harvard, Princeton, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Yale comes from a good place. It's like, you want
Speaker 3: the world for your child, and you think by going
Speaker 3: there that.
Speaker 2: That's the way you achieve it.
Speaker 3: But there was a recent study that just came out
Speaker 3: from the Department of Education that showed that IVY League
Speaker 3: grads do not ten years out of college do not
Speaker 3: make any more money than people who went to Random
Speaker 3: State University. And so going to Harvard or Yale or
Speaker 3: Princeton is not a necessity to again achieve success, however
Speaker 3: we define and whether that's fulfillment, whether that's financial. And
Speaker 3: so I think it's really important to understand that there
Speaker 3: are more Fortune one hundred CEOs that attended Random State
Speaker 3: University than the Ivy's. There are more people working in
Speaker 3: Silicon Valley that graduated from San Jose State University. Because
Speaker 3: the heart of it than from the entire IVY League
Speaker 3: put together. So we need to really check our preconceived
Speaker 3: notions about this process to make sure that we're all
Speaker 3: on the same page. And I think it's helpful for
Speaker 3: young people to hear that. But that's a message that
Speaker 3: if a parent's place in that kind of pressure on
Speaker 3: their child, they need to hear that and understand that
Speaker 3: for themselves so they can be healthy with their child.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about rejection. Oh I did not get
Speaker 1: into that school, this one, that one, or another one.
Speaker 1: Our son, Quaid Gerino wrote about his rejection process in
Speaker 1: my first book from Hide the Change Guidebook, and he's
Speaker 1: a contributor to that book, and he talks about how
Speaker 1: he graduated year early from high school and applied to
Speaker 1: like every single school and every one of them rejected.
Speaker 1: And this is a kid with a fourteen hundred SAT
Speaker 1: score traight a's And it turned out to be a
Speaker 1: lot of you don't have your missing this class and
Speaker 1: this class and this class in this class. As a senior.
Speaker 1: He was missing courses from graduating early, and so it
Speaker 1: screwed up the application process. It was a really funky,
Speaker 1: funky journey to him graduating in a year early. And
Speaker 1: this was twenty nineteen, the year before COVID, and he's like,
Speaker 1: thank god, I graduated a year early though, although he
Speaker 1: did get to college, did get to college in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty and have to come back. But anyway, a little
Speaker 1: card came in the mail from RIT and it said
Speaker 1: we want you, and he goes, you know, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna this is my last one. I'm just going to try.
Speaker 1: Otherwise I would just finish out my senior year. And
Speaker 1: RIT took him. We went up to visit RIT, which
Speaker 1: is in Rochester, New York, Rochester Institute of Technology, and
Speaker 1: he fell in love with it, like it was meant
Speaker 1: to be. And so he was four years there, biology
Speaker 1: and top of his class, you know, all these things.
Speaker 1: Just absolutely loved it. But it was so funky that
Speaker 1: rejection process with him, especially because he's a straight a kid,
Speaker 1: so that graduating early, even with credit and the I
Speaker 1: can't remember the name of it right now, but the
Speaker 1: courses you take in high school they have to test
Speaker 1: for you at all that he had everything. He was
Speaker 1: just missing three certain classes that you needed to get
Speaker 1: into college and he didn't have them. It was really weird.
Speaker 1: Really disappointing, though, talk about rejection because kids definitely have
Speaker 1: to deal with rejection getting into college.
Speaker 3: So I think that it is healthy to face rejection
Speaker 3: and to learn how to overcome it. And I've had
Speaker 3: two students that I've worked with that happen to be
Speaker 3: siblings that got into and every school they apply to,
Speaker 3: and I told their mom that I failed them because
Speaker 3: they didn't get rejected to a single school. You have
Speaker 3: to at a young age learn how to deal with
Speaker 3: that setback. And the best part of your son's story
Speaker 3: is the fact that he tried again and he got in.
Speaker 3: But that is a very important life skill and perspective
Speaker 3: that one needs in order to be prepared because life
Speaker 3: doesn't matter. It's not about reaching your goal the first time.
Speaker 3: It's that life. I think rewards those who fall, pick
Speaker 3: themselves back up and go at it again and then
Speaker 3: achieve their goals. So we think it's like the class
Speaker 3: examples of like the Abraham Lincoln's who never won elected
Speaker 3: office really until he became the president. He had so
Speaker 3: many defeats, defeats, defeats, yeah, or we just see people
Speaker 3: who just go for a time and time again, and
Speaker 3: that's grits. That's perseverance, and I think it's okay. And
Speaker 3: I always tell students you got to put a school
Speaker 3: on your list that it's going to be very tough.
Speaker 3: It's going to be the ultimate reach to get in,
Speaker 3: because if you get in, that's awesome and good for
Speaker 3: it that you're willing to put yourself out and take
Speaker 3: the rest. And if you don't, life goes on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And yeah, he got rejected to everything.
Speaker 1: So it was really interesting. You should read that story
Speaker 1: in the Change guidebook. It's a really interesting talk to him.
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting process he went through and I
Speaker 1: kind of summarized it, but it was still long. But
Speaker 1: so when it turned around to you know, he graduated
Speaker 1: magna cum laude from RIT and he was nervous again
Speaker 1: to He's like, I want to go get my master's degree,
Speaker 1: but I'm super nervous to apply. Can you understand why.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, oh yeah, considering what you went through before.
Speaker 1: And he goes, well, here's where I want to go.
Speaker 1: I want to go to Georgetown University. And our other
Speaker 1: son was at Georgetown University playing baseball there and doing
Speaker 1: his second master's degree, and he wanted to be go
Speaker 1: to master's degree for a pharmacology at Georgetown University. And
Speaker 1: he's like, should I do this? And I'm like absolutely.
Speaker 1: The worst they can say to you is no, you know,
Speaker 1: and then you're going to move on from that too
Speaker 1: and whatever. And he got in, and I will never
Speaker 1: forget that phone call. He's like, oh God, I go,
Speaker 1: I gotta go, you know that kind of thing. But
Speaker 1: it was so nice to see him have a success
Speaker 1: after that experience of the high school thing. It was
Speaker 1: so nice for him to just get in, I will say.
Speaker 3: And doesn't it feel so much more sweet when you're
Speaker 3: admitted after you know, trying again, not with those expectations,
Speaker 3: just knowing that it's just that you put yourself out there.
Speaker 3: That is such a better acceptance when it does come.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's our budding doctor. So we'll see what
Speaker 1: happens with him next. But you know, it's interesting, and
Speaker 1: I feel for all these kids, but you know, let's
Speaker 1: go back to parents for a little bit. So I'm
Speaker 1: fifty five right now. You can probably kind of tell
Speaker 1: my age by my kids and so forth. But college
Speaker 1: today seems so much different than it was when I
Speaker 1: went to college, including the use of a cell phone.
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine if my mom were texting me every
Speaker 1: ten seconds and I was at college.
Speaker 2: I don't know, just saying yeah, no.
Speaker 3: It's it's a different world, and there's a lot more
Speaker 3: opportunities like them than a you know, call it a
Speaker 3: parent who's gen X whose kids are getting.
Speaker 2: Ready to go to college today.
Speaker 3: Is that with you know, they've grown up with the
Speaker 3: information age, and when we think about education to be learned,
Speaker 3: to get an education, to learn how to deal with
Speaker 3: the like interact with the world, that's like so cool.
Speaker 2: There's so many more opportunities.
Speaker 3: The flip side of that coin is there's a lot
Speaker 3: more ways that kids need to be a lot more
Speaker 3: careful online presence things set online. There's a lot of
Speaker 3: meanness on the internet, and I think a lot of
Speaker 3: group think and just a filtered way of seeing the
Speaker 3: world through social media and understanding what's going on in
Speaker 3: the world. For sa TikTok, I don't think it's the
Speaker 3: best way to do that. So I think there's a
Speaker 3: lot of really great opportunities, and then there's also some pitfalls,
Speaker 3: and so it's a lot easier to stay in touch
Speaker 3: with your kid.
Speaker 2: I went to.
Speaker 3: When I went to college, we didn't have smartphones, but
Speaker 3: we had cell phones, so I was still able to
Speaker 3: talk to my parents every day and that made it
Speaker 3: being on the other side of the country so much
Speaker 3: more comfortable at the distance and feel so bad because
Speaker 3: I literally called home every.
Speaker 2: Day, and so that was nice.
Speaker 3: I think today, you know, a self an addiction and
Speaker 3: the social isolation that I think it great for young
Speaker 3: people and then just living their lives more online than
Speaker 3: in real life. If we're going to go to college
Speaker 3: and be away from home, let's go out and meet people,
Speaker 3: Let's go out and do things.
Speaker 2: I think that's really really important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, last question because we've got to go
Speaker 1: and again we're speaking with Greg Kaplan. He is the
Speaker 1: author of The Journey. I just shortened the title there.
Speaker 1: It's got a longer subtitle to it, but the Journey basically,
Speaker 1: and he's helping people. He's helping students. I think that's
Speaker 1: the best way to summarize helping students, families and so
Speaker 1: forth with really everything about education. I see probably helping
Speaker 1: people in high school to prepare to get to college,
Speaker 1: but it probably backs into that as well. But what
Speaker 1: changes let's talk about the admissions process again, I started
Speaker 1: to kind of touch on it. But what changes do
Speaker 1: we need to see in the college and sin's process
Speaker 1: and in higher education overall? What changes do we need there?
Speaker 3: So I think there's a couple of changes that need
Speaker 3: to be made. I think, you know, college has long
Speaker 3: been presented as a chance for people to learn how
Speaker 3: to think, and I think there's an amazing value to that.
Speaker 3: But I do think that we need to make sure
Speaker 3: that young people are developing the skills that they need
Speaker 3: to be prepared for what comes next. So we're really
Speaker 3: bullish when we have students who are going to study
Speaker 3: nursing or are doing things like accounting or things that
Speaker 3: we feel like are going to allow them to live
Speaker 3: the lives of the envision. So I think we need
Speaker 3: more skills as part of our education so young people
Speaker 3: can go do things that they're actually in demand. And
Speaker 3: I think we need to have conversations about as part
Speaker 3: of that. Oh, so how does this education fit in
Speaker 3: within like a young person's life goals? Because what you
Speaker 3: don't want is a young person graduating from college and
Speaker 3: being like now what, I think that's sad and I.
Speaker 2: Don't think that is how it should be.
Speaker 3: With that said, I think the other change is we
Speaker 3: need a lot more transparency about the costs. We're working
Speaker 3: with someone right now who in their second year of college,
Speaker 3: they just kind of pulled the rug out under the
Speaker 3: floor and took away some of the grants that they
Speaker 3: were receiving. And I just think I feel so much
Speaker 3: for this family because they said, we would never have
Speaker 3: agreed to go here had we known what the cost
Speaker 3: was going to change after year one. And so I
Speaker 3: think we need a lot more transparence about the costs
Speaker 3: where these funds are being allocated to, and a really
Speaker 3: frank conversation about what are we actually getting, like, what
Speaker 3: are we paying for and what can we expect in return.
Speaker 3: So I think we need have a reckoning about the
Speaker 3: cost to avoid debt. And I think we need to
Speaker 3: make sure that young people are a little more prepared
Speaker 3: for the real world coming out of college.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the journey how to prepare kids for a
Speaker 1: competitive and changing world. I don't see this as I
Speaker 1: suppose you could give this to somebody for graduation, and
Speaker 1: I want to not get in that way. But I
Speaker 1: almost think that's too late. I would like to see
Speaker 1: this book being maybe standard issue in maybe like high school,
Speaker 1: ninth grade, tenth grade, somewhere around there where you're thinking
Speaker 1: about starting to really think about college, taking that sat,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, so you can start to prepare
Speaker 1: for that. Because if you get this book after you've
Speaker 1: graduated and you're in that summer before you go and
Speaker 1: you're too late, do you think maybe even I guess
Speaker 1: eighth grade, but that seems too young.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the book is written to be understood
Speaker 3: by someone of any age. I mean really, I think
Speaker 3: heading into ninth grade is a great time because it
Speaker 3: delves into you know, and I love the fact that
Speaker 3: your son is playing baseball at a very high level,
Speaker 3: but not ever makes it to that level. And so
Speaker 3: I think just to be told that if you play
Speaker 3: a sport that's okay, it's not going to it may
Speaker 3: not be your path to college acceptance, and just to
Speaker 3: know that you need to have a plan B. And
Speaker 3: so we really try to I really tried to make
Speaker 3: sure that this would be a way for people to
Speaker 3: make the journey to college and career work for them,
Speaker 3: so we enjoy it and base less stress.
Speaker 2: So I'm with you.
Speaker 3: I'd love to see it out there standard issue, and
Speaker 3: I've been told that before, so I one, I really
Speaker 3: do appreciate you saying then too. I think this is
Speaker 3: a great way for both a young person a student
Speaker 3: and their family to read it so they're on the
Speaker 3: same page to reduce friction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and for somebody listening, I'm going to keep you
Speaker 1: for Can I keep you for five more minutes? Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm okay, let's talk about that student athlete for just
Speaker 1: a second, because I just that just jogged my memory
Speaker 1: that I forgot to talk about student athletes and I
Speaker 1: meant to with you. You know that is that is
Speaker 1: like having two careers in college. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if people really understand the life of a student athlete completely.
Speaker 1: I think when you're in a freshman in high school
Speaker 1: or maybe in eighth grade or whatever, and you start
Speaker 1: to see promise in a sport and you think, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I could play this in college, and it's it's
Speaker 1: a it's a very interesting journey to playing a sport
Speaker 1: in college. And some some parts of it are all
Speaker 1: its crack up to be in more and other parts
Speaker 1: are like, wow, this is really tricky to maintain my grades,
Speaker 1: show up on time for my classes, show up on
Speaker 1: time for practice, show up on time for games, be
Speaker 1: gone from school during games or practices or whatever. There
Speaker 1: is a lot that goes on to being a student athlete.
Speaker 1: It is like having two jobs or maybe even three
Speaker 1: at times. It just depends on how well you're going
Speaker 1: to do it anyway, So you know, Cam should promise
Speaker 1: very very young to be able to move on to
Speaker 1: potentially be a professional player at some point. And you know,
Speaker 1: he played five years at the University of New Haven,
Speaker 1: in one year at Georgetown Universities, get two master's degrees,
Speaker 1: an undergrad degree, all in environmental science and sports management,
Speaker 1: and is now over in Germany playing professional baseball. And
Speaker 1: what a journey that has been. And wow, right, you
Speaker 1: must get kids who want to and we know lots
Speaker 1: of other kids who you know play We see in
Speaker 1: all the parents and kids and all this stuff. For
Speaker 1: baseball anyway, you must come across a lot of student athletes.
Speaker 3: So what I will say is that we work with
Speaker 3: a lot of students, that a lot of young people
Speaker 3: who the think that their journey to college is through
Speaker 3: the sport that they play.
Speaker 1: With the scholarship too, right.
Speaker 3: And scholarship too. But I want to be very clear
Speaker 3: and unequivocal on this, is that only six percent of
Speaker 3: high school athletes are recruited to play at the college level,
Speaker 3: and of all high school athletes, two percent are given
Speaker 3: some form of a scholarship, and that is not necessarily
Speaker 3: full scholarship, but that could be partial scholarship. And there
Speaker 3: are some sports that aren't real revenue drivers for a college,
Speaker 3: think like football, basketball, baseball to a certain extent depending on
Speaker 3: the school, that there may be one scholarship for five
Speaker 3: incoming players for five incoming freshmen, so that's a one
Speaker 3: fifth scholarship. So I think it's one of the biggest
Speaker 3: misconceptions is that you have to play a sports again
Speaker 3: to college, or that playing a sport will pay for college.
Speaker 3: And I always tell students is that you have to
Speaker 3: have a plan B, and that could be any other
Speaker 3: plan B. But until you have an offer from a
Speaker 3: school that you'd like to attend, let's assume that you're
Speaker 3: not going to be getting in for the sport, and
Speaker 3: let's assume it's not going to be paying for it.
Speaker 3: Not that I have any doubt in anyone's athletic ability,
Speaker 3: it's just you can't need those numbers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's also we always said, okay, you can
Speaker 1: play baseball. But guess what, kiddo, school is going to
Speaker 1: be just as important because at some point, there's going
Speaker 1: to come a time when you can't left handed pitch,
Speaker 1: and we're going to you know, you're going to need
Speaker 1: to promise very very young to be able to move
Speaker 1: on to potentially be a professional player at some point.
Speaker 1: And you know, he played five years at the University
Speaker 1: of New Haven, in one year at Georgetown Universities, get
Speaker 1: two master's degrees undergrad degree all in environmental science and
Speaker 1: sports management, and is now over in Germany playing professional baseball.
Speaker 1: And what a journey that has been. And wow, right,
Speaker 1: you must get kids who want to and we know
Speaker 1: lots of other kids who you know, play, We see
Speaker 1: in all the parents and kids and all the stuff.
Speaker 1: For baseball anyway, you must come across a lot of
Speaker 1: student athletes.
Speaker 3: So what I will say is that we work with
Speaker 3: a lot of students, that a lot of young people
Speaker 3: who the think that their journey to college is through
Speaker 3: the sport that they play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with the scholarship too, right.
Speaker 3: And scholarship too, But I want to be very clear
Speaker 3: and unequivocal on this is that only six percent of
Speaker 3: high school athletes are recruited to play at the college level,
Speaker 3: and of all high school athletes, two percent are given
Speaker 3: some form of a scholarship, and that is not necessarily
Speaker 3: full scholarship, but that could be partial scholarship. And there
Speaker 3: are some sports that aren't real revenue drivers for a college.
Speaker 3: I think, like football, basketball, baseball a certain extent depending
Speaker 3: on the school, that there may be one scholarship for
Speaker 3: five incoming players for five incoming freshmen, so that's a
Speaker 3: one fifth scholarship. So I think it's one of the
Speaker 3: biggest misconceptions is that you have to play a sports
Speaker 3: again to college, or that playing a sport will pay
Speaker 3: for college. And always tell students is that you have
Speaker 3: to have a plan B, and that could be any
Speaker 3: other plan B. But until you have an offer from
Speaker 3: a school that you'd like to attend, let's assume that
Speaker 3: you're not going to be getting in for the sport,
Speaker 3: and let's assume it's not going to be paying for it.
Speaker 2: Not that I have any doubt in.
Speaker 3: Anyone's athletic ability, it's just you can't have made those numbers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's also we always said Okay, yep, you
Speaker 1: can play baseball. But guess what, kiddo, school is going
Speaker 1: to be just as important because at some point, there's
Speaker 1: going to come a time when you can't left handed
Speaker 1: pitch and we're going to you know, you're going to
Speaker 1: need to plan for that moment. And it sucks to
Speaker 1: think about it. I get it, but you know there
Speaker 1: will come a time. It just happens that way, and
Speaker 1: so we always stress school. And so what was nice
Speaker 1: about our student athlete was that he had the academic
Speaker 1: scholarships and didn't need to rely on the baseball scholarships
Speaker 1: so much. He did get both in this case. But
Speaker 1: that academic piece is so important. So I can't stress
Speaker 1: enough to anybody listening how important it is whatever you
Speaker 1: want to do in life, to try and do the
Speaker 1: best you can do in school and get the best
Speaker 1: grades you can get.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I actually tell story of someone that my brother and
Speaker 3: I grew up with that the family held him back.
Speaker 3: So he repeated eighth grade so you could get bigger
Speaker 3: and stronger for a year and he he and this
Speaker 3: was for golf, and so he ended up getting a
Speaker 3: golf scholarship to a universe had a great golf program fantastic.
Speaker 2: And what has been.
Speaker 3: What ended up happening with him because my brother and
Speaker 3: I had a little bit of and I work with
Speaker 3: my brother. We were in business together, so we were
Speaker 3: looking at this person who was in my one of
Speaker 3: my brother's class end up graduating a year later. Is
Speaker 3: he ended up being like becoming a being on a
Speaker 3: minor tour in South Africa And we're from California and
Speaker 3: moving to South Africa and now he teaches golf according
Speaker 3: to LinkedIn in Canada and if anyone's I mean, you're
Speaker 3: from Maine, so you know it's a very short golf season.
Speaker 2: In the north. But I just don't know if this
Speaker 2: has served him well.
Speaker 3: Where it was sports like where you said, I'm going
Speaker 3: to hold a kid back at thirteen or fourteen, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go to them. And everything's been about golf for
Speaker 3: this person. And so he's down his mid thirties and
Speaker 3: everything's still about golf. And if he's happy, I'm happy.
Speaker 3: But if I don't know, if you know, maybe there
Speaker 3: could be life beyond golf too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 1: Well, it was interesting. That was one of the thoughts
Speaker 1: behind my book, my new book, The one the success
Speaker 1: guidebook with HCI was that well rounded, comprehensive success. So
Speaker 1: when I see people on Best Ever You, my goal
Speaker 1: is to help them be successful in all areas of
Speaker 1: their life. So that's great. If you can play golf,
Speaker 1: or you can play baseball, or you can play football
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. You know, you're great in this
Speaker 1: one area, but how are the other areas? How's that
Speaker 1: working out for you? You know kind of thing, And
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more so. I think it's
Speaker 1: just so important to not be one track or just
Speaker 1: see one thing, but rather be that you know, that
Speaker 1: golfer who paints, or that baseball player who loves environmental science,
Speaker 1: or the doctor who is a writer, or the lawyer
Speaker 1: who's helping people do things, you know, to get people
Speaker 1: into college and things like that. It's so important to
Speaker 1: just broaden out, don't you think.
Speaker 2: I think so, And I just think you know, they're sports.
Speaker 3: Youth sports are fantastic. But when they suck up all
Speaker 3: the oxygen in the room and you don't have any
Speaker 3: skills or perspective beyond it, then we have a problem.
Speaker 1: And you have a problem. Yeah, Well, I'm so glad
Speaker 1: that you're here on Best Ever You. I think this
Speaker 1: is exactly the kind of show that our best every
Speaker 1: followers love, these kind of in depth conversations about a
Speaker 1: topic that actually is you know, applicable to our lives
Speaker 1: and so forth. So I think people will really find
Speaker 1: this useful. And I know we have parents who are
Speaker 1: always seeking some type of parenting information, especially when there's
Speaker 1: not so much written for this age of twenty to thirty.
Speaker 1: I see lots of kid books out there, like you know,
Speaker 1: parenting your toddler and parenting your eight year old and
Speaker 1: things like that, but the parenting you're twenty to thirty
Speaker 1: year old needs to help more way more.
Speaker 3: So I think this is Yeah, I think that fifteen
Speaker 3: to twenty five, getting a young person to launch themselves
Speaker 3: is you know, getting body training can be a challenge.
Speaker 3: The Terrible twos and the temper tantrums. Having been through that,
Speaker 3: you know myself, like I can say that is a challenge,
Speaker 3: But this requires a lot more thoughtfulness. And that's why
Speaker 3: it's nice to be having this conversation because it's a
Speaker 3: different type of challenge and it's it's and it's a
Speaker 3: different type of conversation. I mean, you are having a conversation,
Speaker 3: which is nice, but it's it can be challenging. And
Speaker 3: then the world is just so much more complex than
Speaker 3: it was when we came of age, and so I
Speaker 3: think we need to just be very thoughtful and forward looking.
Speaker 3: So so thank you so much for having me on
Speaker 3: the show today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for being here, and to the students listening,
Speaker 1: because we do have a very budding young audience. Of
Speaker 1: those twenty year olds, you know, this is a great
Speaker 1: way to grab his book and have a conversation with
Speaker 1: your parents, or even pull Greg in and help him
Speaker 1: have the conversation with you and your parents and so forth,
Speaker 1: you know, because there might be some I take it
Speaker 1: from a standpoint of you know, not everybody I do
Speaker 1: truly go here. I'm like, not everybody wants to go
Speaker 1: to college, and these kids are thinking, my goodness, this
Speaker 1: is expensive and I don't know what I want to do,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to waste time and money and
Speaker 1: things like that. And I think this is a point,
Speaker 1: a conversation point that a lot of people have in
Speaker 1: the back of their mind, but they're afraid to say it.
Speaker 1: So they go to college anyway and do all sorts
Speaker 1: of things at college that aren't helping them.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 3: That's why you just have to have a plan. And again,
Speaker 3: it's not just about working with someone like me. I'm
Speaker 3: just thrilled that I get to make sure that people
Speaker 3: make the most of this because I don't want people
Speaker 3: wasting time. I don't want people wasting money. I want
Speaker 3: people building the life that the envision leading. But it
Speaker 3: does require being intentional.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Greg, thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: with me, and I want to make sure before we
Speaker 1: go I tell people where to find you, where to
Speaker 1: get your book and so forth. You said you're not
Speaker 1: really on social media that much. Are you on LinkedIn
Speaker 1: or is there someplace that you'd like.
Speaker 2: You're on LinkedIn?
Speaker 3: But we also have a fantastic website, Kaplan Educational Group
Speaker 3: dot com. Our book is for sale on Amazon and
Speaker 3: Barnes and Nobles wherever you know books are sold, which
Speaker 3: I don't know online if that's anywhere else these days,
Speaker 3: But visit our website Kaplan Educationalgroup dot com. We also
Speaker 3: have a monthly newsletter that we send out and instead
Speaker 3: of kind of updates on social media, where we're kind
Speaker 3: of getting into a little more in depth about some
Speaker 3: of the issues that I think we should all be
Speaker 3: talking about.
Speaker 2: I think this month I'm.
Speaker 3: Going to be writing about, you know, with the loneliness
Speaker 3: epidemic in the United States, how being involved in activities
Speaker 3: in high school being thoughtful about that's actually probably the
Speaker 3: best way to to to, you know, to address that.
Speaker 3: So we try to get have dep and really make
Speaker 3: sure that young everyone is moving in the right direction.
Speaker 3: So this is, you know, I would say, the best way.
Speaker 3: And you know, through the website you can reach out
Speaker 3: and contact us if you're interested in receiving any you know,
Speaker 3: individualized advising perfect And.
Speaker 1: Again, just one more time. The book is called The Journey,
Speaker 1: How to Prepare Kids for competitive and changing World. And
Speaker 1: this has been a lovely conversation with Greg Kaplan. Greg,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for.
Speaker 3: Being here, Thank you so much for having me, and
Speaker 3: it was it was a spectacular conversation, So thank you
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 2: Elizabeth, thank you