WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.359 Hello everyone, and welcome to the best ever You show. 2 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:06.599 I'm Elizabeth Hamilton Garino. Thank you for being here with us. 3 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:10.039 I have author Greg Kaplan with me today. He is 4 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:13.439 the author of the journey How to Prepare Kids for 5 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:18.199 a competitive and changing World. Greg, welcome to the show. 6 00:00:19.079 --> 00:00:20.920 Thank you so much for having me today. Elizabeth. 7 00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:24.920 Yeah, okay, so you have pivoted careers a little bit 8 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:28.600 and kind of heard I read somewhere that you were 9 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:32.960 in the financial services industry and pivoted to a totally 10 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.200 different career. Now have a book out, am I correct? 11 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:36.679 You are correct? 12 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:41.479 I am a reformed or burnt out investment banker turned 13 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:45.079 college admissions expert or strategists. 14 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:46.240 So I went from. 15 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:49.719 Helping companies sell themselves to helping young people figure out 16 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:52.159 what makes them ticks so they could then market themselves 17 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:53.479 to the schools they wish to attend. 18 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:56.039 And tell me why you did that. So you just 19 00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:58.479 got sick of being in the financial services industry. I've 20 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:01.039 won toe in the financial services industry too, well, kind 21 00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:04.079 of half of me. My husband is a federal securities lawyer. 22 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:09.000 Oh amazing. I'm also a lawyer by training. So I 23 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:14.359 my journey to becoming a college admissions advisor. Really started 24 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:18.400 as an investment banker when it was my ticket out 25 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:20.959 of work every day before two am, when I would 26 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:23.400 talk to some of the senior bankers at the firm 27 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.280 I was at on Wall Street and they would ask, 28 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:27.959 how did you get into a school like Penn And 29 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:30.040 I would say, well, I developed a plan to market 30 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:33.799 myself and to really you know, show my ability to 31 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:36.000 add value to the to the organizations that I was 32 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:38.280 applying for the universities, and they would say, gosh, that 33 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:39.920 sounds like actually quite smart. 34 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:41.680 Can you come give my kid at pep Talk? 35 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:45.159 And I, at that point, my twenty four year old self, 36 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:50.359 was much more inclined to go over to some person 37 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:52.439 that I worked with house for dinner to give their 38 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:55.040 kid at pep Talk rather than be running, you know, 39 00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:57.920 pro forma analysis at two am, so that it was 40 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:01.079 out of almost necessity. And I people kept saying, gosh, 41 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:02.519 you got to write this into a book one day. 42 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:05.319 And that was my first book. And I've been, you know, 43 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:07.319 doing this full time for the last seven years. 44 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.120 So is the book for parents or for kids or 45 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:10.680 who's it for? 46 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:14.800 So the Journey, which I published with HCI and May 47 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:18.159 at twenty twenty four. I actually wrote to both parents 48 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:21.960 and students, So it alternates one chapter to the parents. 49 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.280 Because the journey to college, as you're well aware of Elizabeth, 50 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:28.120 as a team sport, you really need everyone in the 51 00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:30.560 family be aligned, not just because the cost, but because 52 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:33.000 it just takes so much at Emford and sometimes a 53 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:35.280 young person really does know how to navigate themselves. So 54 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.240 it alternates chapter to parents, chapters to students, and it 55 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:40.599 goes back and forth because I want everyone to be 56 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:42.680 on the same page, which is sometimes hard with the teenager. 57 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:45.680 Is this for kids that need to get into Harvard 58 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:49.680 or you know, Penn or Georgetown or Stanford or Bale 59 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:55.159 or sis. For all levels of colleges, all levels of students, 60 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:58.000 and what about students that don't want to go on 61 00:02:58.039 --> 00:02:58.560 to college? 62 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:02.639 So this book is not just for the ivy or busters, 63 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:04.919 which we call them in my office. This book is 64 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:08.840 for everyone who is seeking to make the most of 65 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:13.400 their path to colleging career. There's not one college that 66 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:17.080 has a monopoly on the path to success, and where 67 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:18.599 one goes is not who. 68 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:18.919 They will be. 69 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:22.159 I had better job prospects coming out of U see 70 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:24.560 Irvine School of Law, which at the time was unranked 71 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:26.159 than I did coming out of Warton, which is the 72 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:28.599 top rings business school the United States. So what this 73 00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:30.520 really is is to try to get families to move 74 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:33.960 past the Harvard or Bust mentality, which I think is 75 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:37.840 pervasive in a lot of high achieving, affluent communities, and 76 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:41.000 to help people visualize success and their path to however 77 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:44.560 they define it through, whether it's college or another path. 78 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.560 So this book is for everyone's about developing three key 79 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.479 traits that can be developed as part of the journey 80 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.759 to college, but also can be out. So no, it's 81 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:56.680 not just for the Yeah, the Harvard or Stanford Stanfords. 82 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:01.840 Yeah, and are people saying, hey, mister Kaplan, can you 83 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:03.080 help me get in here? 84 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:07.120 A lot of the families, you know, it's interesting. When 85 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:10.639 I first started my practice seven years ago, a lot 86 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.120 of the folks were very much I really am targeting 87 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.759 a Harvard to Stanford, at UCLA, at University of Michigan. 88 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:22.399 But the conversation's really changed to how do I make 89 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:24.319 this process work for me? And I think that's a 90 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:27.279 very healthy conversation to have. I think these schools are 91 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:31.160 so competitive to get into that it requires us to 92 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:33.279 be creative and flexible, and that's really what I'm trying 93 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:35.639 to spread the message to as a way to address 94 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:39.000 team mental health, to address family angst and anxiety over 95 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:41.600 paying for this for college. 96 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.079 That is because it's so expensive, it is so overprised, 97 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:45.199 and so. 98 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:48.759 There is still a lot of that. But that has 99 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:52.439 been the most pleasant change in my practice is that. 100 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:55.800 And we joke like the Harvard or Iveyer busters, like 101 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:57.920 that's a lot less and it should be. 102 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:04.759 Yeah, yeah, when So we've got four sons there now 103 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:07.839 this year they turned twenty three, twenty five, twenty seven, 104 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:12.879 and twenty nine, and we have we just finished the 105 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:19.000 master's degree portion of everyone's educations. Yes, thank you. So 106 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:21.959 we've been in college now, my husband, I feel like 107 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:25.759 we've gone back multiple times. We've been in college since 108 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:29.560 twenty thirteen, so that is eleven years of paying for 109 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:33.519 college for multiple kids in school at once. At one 110 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:38.160 point we had all four in college at once. So 111 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:41.920 you can imagine the bills and the rent and the food, 112 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:46.560 tuition and everything for us, can't you. 113 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:51.959 I'm getting anxious just listening to talk about that. At 114 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:54.079 least you're done, Yeah. 115 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:57.079 Yeah, we are, We're done. Although our youngest wants to 116 00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:59.879 continue on to medical school. So we may have a conversation, 117 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.439 but you know, so that's that's us and our kids. 118 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:07.519 It was interesting because, in fact, if you put all 119 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:09.680 six of us together, we went to all types of 120 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:13.800 different schools, from University of New Haven to Saint Amber's 121 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:19.399 University in Davenport, Iowa, to Rutgers to Georgetown to University 122 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:23.199 of Maine ri T in Rochester, New York. I think 123 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:25.560 I said University of New Haven. I mean all different 124 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:30.000 kinds of schools. Do you talk about how different schools 125 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:32.560 fit different students? 126 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:36.079 Yes, and I think that's the biggest thing, and that 127 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:38.680 makes me so happy to hear, because this is not 128 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.079 a one size fits all approach when it comes to college. 129 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:45.439 And yes, there are some schools that are brands, and 130 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:48.720 I use this intentionally when we're talking about college or 131 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:51.199 grad school or the journey to being fulfilled and to 132 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.759 being However, can we use define the word successful because 133 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:57.079 I think that's different for everyone. But this is not 134 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:59.160 getting a hood ornament for a car. This is not 135 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:02.319 getting a design purse to put on one shoulder. This 136 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:08.399 is an experience, and so we really do want people 137 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:11.680 to find schools and to embrace the mentality about making 138 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:13.959 this work for you, not the other way around. 139 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:15.519 You know, the journey. 140 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:19.439 You mentioned that your son is potentially applying to medical school, 141 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:22.079 and there are some schools that are really good fits 142 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:24.800 at an undergraduate level to prepare people for the journey 143 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:27.600 to medicine, for example. And I always use example when 144 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:29.480 I tell students, because I would say about maybe ten 145 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:31.120 to twenty percent of the students we work with want 146 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:35.000 to be doctors. And I would say half of my hall, 147 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:38.240 of my dorm hall, my freshman year of Pen was 148 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:40.600 pre med. But Penn is one of those places where 149 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:43.800 there's so much academic pressure, and the grading is so intense, 150 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:47.199 and your classes are graded on a curve, so your 151 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:49.199 grade is not necessarily I got a ninety and a 152 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:51.240 test reports in A. But if I'm in the top 153 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:53.360 ten or twenty percent of my class at five hundred 154 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:55.199 kids who happened, I'll be the smartest kids from their 155 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:55.800 high school. 156 00:07:56.279 --> 00:07:56.920 Then I get an A. 157 00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:59.000 And so I always tell students if they want to 158 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:00.800 go to medical school, we need to find schools where 159 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:05.040 the grading practices make sense, where the research opportunities to 160 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:07.920 you know, to bolster one's resume are easy to obtain 161 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:11.040 and where there's service opportunities. So we have kids to 162 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:11.360 say we. 163 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:11.720 Want to go. 164 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:16.120 I live in California and Irvine, and there's a very 165 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:18.360 popul university here. You see Santa Barbara's on the beach. 166 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:20.879 It's a great school. The only problem for UCSPC is 167 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:23.000 there's no hospital attached to it, and so if you 168 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:25.600 want to go do research or medical volunteering, you have 169 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:28.160 to look elsewhere in the summer. So it's an amazing school. 170 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:29.720 It may not be the greatest place to go become 171 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.159 a doctor at though, and so it's really about making 172 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:34.320 this work for you. And Asus is like a concrete example. 173 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:37.120 But yes, we really want all different types of schools 174 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.159 because there's all different types of people on all different 175 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:40.080 price points too. 176 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:44.120 Yeah, I remember when you mentioned the curve. I remember 177 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:47.000 when I was in college one hundred thousand years ago. 178 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:50.120 I was at the University of Iowa and I walked 179 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.919 into my freshman math class, took my test, you know, 180 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:56.279 did all my stuff, and it was graded on a curve, 181 00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:01.200 and I nearly fell out of my rocker point. I'm like, 182 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:03.559 I've never even heard of this before. I come from 183 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:07.000 a school of two hundred and seven kids in Pleasant Valley, Iowa. 184 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:10.759 And Wow, I just was blown away. And I didn't 185 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:12.840 do terrible or anything like that, but I didn't get 186 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:15.440 an A. And it was like the first time in 187 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:17.440 my life where I didn't get an A And I'm like, oh, no, 188 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:19.759 you know kind of thing. And so I think there's 189 00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:24.200 that there's that freshman adjustment period where things change. You're 190 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.360 not at home, the grading's different, the school's big or smaller. 191 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:29.759 You're on your own. If you get sick, you don't 192 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:31.519 you know. If you get sick and you're far away 193 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:34.159 from home, you can't go home. All these things factor 194 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:37.360 into school, and I don't know if everybody's thinking that way. 195 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:39.320 What I would say is like, we want people to 196 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:41.480 recognize though, that there are going to be challenges and 197 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:44.120 that again it's even finding the right place for you. 198 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:47.000 If a young person's dealing with a lot of anxiety 199 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:51.120 or just being in the most competitive school environment may 200 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:52.000 not be the right fit. 201 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:53.399 And so sometimes it's a small school. 202 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:56.159 Sometimes it's a large school where the anonymity doesn't feel 203 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:58.519 like there's a spotlight and that's okay, let's play to 204 00:09:58.559 --> 00:09:59.279 our strengths. 205 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:02.840 Yeah, there's a lot of talking right now about how 206 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:05.559 expensive school is and whether it's worth it or not. 207 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:09.200 pH debates going on about the value of college, how 208 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:10.759 we're going to pay for college, if we're going to 209 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:15.559 have loans, no loans, payoff loans, loans forgiven all over 210 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.399 the place is college for everyone these days? 211 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:22.799 And I'm so glad you bring this up. College. 212 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:26.039 A public university, a place like the University of Iowa, 213 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.440 when you factor in room and board if you're not 214 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:31.399 living at home, could be close to thirty to forty 215 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:34.159 thousand dollars per year, and a private university can be 216 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:38.639 is approaching one hundred thousand dollars now per year, and 217 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:42.159 to have four hundred thousand dollars of student loans and 218 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:45.840 maybe not the right job prospects that would ever allow 219 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:49.240 a young person to pay that off is I don't 220 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:50.799 think that makes sense for everyone, and there are a 221 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:55.120 lot of other pathways to be fulfilled in life. However, 222 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:57.360 we define that in terms of we always tell young 223 00:10:57.399 --> 00:10:59.480 people we work with we want them to be healthy, happy, 224 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:04.120 and financial independent. And if someone's dream is too and 225 00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:06.279 you could be an entrepreneur, being a you know, an 226 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:09.279 air conditioned and service technician, you could you could build 227 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:14.159 up a practice, you could hire other technicians. It doesn't 228 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:18.120 have to be, you know, a computer programmer. So I 229 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:19.879 think young people really have to have a sense of 230 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:22.559 what they enjoy to do, whether it's interacting with people, 231 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.000 building things, fixing things, helping people, and then try to 232 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.799 understand how educational pathways fit for that. And if a 233 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:30.399 young person really doesn't know what they want to do 234 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:32.240 or doesn't know if college is right for them, they 235 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:34.919 can always start at a junior college and transfer because 236 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:36.320 that is a low cost way to stay at home, 237 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.279 start earning credits that allow them to discover more as 238 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:42.840 they go. I think you have four kids who are 239 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:46.600 you know, emerging from their educational journeys. We don't necessarily 240 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:48.639 do the best job, and I think you'd agree in 241 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:51.440 helping young people figure out what they want to do 242 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:53.919 or how their educations make sense for their life goals. 243 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:57.000 And so sometimes it just takes a little bit more 244 00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:00.080 time or experience, especially coming on the pandemic where we 245 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.840 are very isolated and not interacting with the world as much. 246 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:06.200 Oh, I would tell you in a heartbeat, if you 247 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:07.919 look at all the different kids that come out of 248 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:11.399 high school. I think there's so much pressure on kids 249 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:13.519 coming out of high school to like have it all 250 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:15.919 figured out, and they feel like, well, I, you know, 251 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:18.919 I have to choose my major, and boy, I can't 252 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:21.039 change I've got to There's so much pressure to choose 253 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:23.840 a major and stick with it, and if you change 254 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.639 your major, you're in school longer and you've disappointed parents 255 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.240 and people and this and that. And I think I think, 256 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:34.159 you know, I would hope you would change and maybe 257 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:36.600 not change your major per se, but if you need 258 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.639 to go for it. But I hope as you enter 259 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:42.600 college that things change and shift around for you and 260 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:45.919 you find what you love and discover your passions and 261 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:48.240 all of these things. And I really don't think that 262 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.960 you're able to do that from the comfort of high 263 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:54.000 school or discomfort of high school, whichever one it is, 264 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:59.279 you know. And so I don't know what is needed, 265 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:03.080 But I think more experience with all of the different 266 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:06.960 careers and things that you can do with your life 267 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:10.039 should be presented, maybe almost in like a gap year 268 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:12.759 before you're even allowed to go to college or more 269 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:16.720 credit after high school. There needs to be some kind 270 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:19.559 of a better segue right in there, because some people know 271 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:21.440 they want to go to medical school when they're ten, 272 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:24.879 and other people figure it out when they're you know, thirty, 273 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:27.039 You know exactly. 274 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:28.440 Europeans take a gap year. 275 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:30.639 I think you mentioned that, you know, one of your 276 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:33.080 sons had spent some time in Germany's over there right now. 277 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:36.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, play in baseball. 278 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.480 Which is fantastic people in Europe because when you apply 279 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:42.879 to university in Europe, you're applying for a specific program 280 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:44.879 and you can't change once you get there. The United States, 281 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:46.720 we give you a lot of flexibility to change your major. 282 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.279 The problem is that we have no direction when we're 283 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.720 heading there. So I'm a big believer in a gap year. 284 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:53.879 I'm a big believer in real world experience. And that's 285 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:56.639 what we're advising people with their ninth graders is you 286 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:58.279 say you want to be a doctor, let's go get 287 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.360 you volunteering in a hospital, because that you don't have 288 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.440 to love it, but you need to see if that's 289 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:06.240 the setting you want to work in. I never would 290 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.120 have gone to law school had I shadowed or observed 291 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:12.039 a lawyer other than my own dad, because I was like, gosh, 292 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:15.639 it's great working with my dad, and I was in 293 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.000 law school, I had like kind of my arrest of 294 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:21.080 development moment, Like within the first five minutes of class. 295 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.639 My first class was like I made a terrible mistake. 296 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:25.559 I should not be here. And then I spent the 297 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:27.320 next three years trying to figure out something else. And 298 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.919 that's me finding my calling, which is what I'm doing now. 299 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:32.120 But that was a really rough time in the wilderness 300 00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:33.720 for me because I never done that exploration. 301 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:38.399 Yeah, in our school here, I'm in Falmouth, Maine, and 302 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:41.639 our Falmouth High School requires you to do thirty five 303 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:46.200 hours of community service plus a job shadow in order 304 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.480 to graduate. So I think that that was really tricky 305 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:53.080 because not everybody knew what they wanted to do. But 306 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:57.600 our kids actually kind of used that to their benefit. 307 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:00.840 We've had And here's another thing I would say too. 308 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:04.000 You know, when you have children, sometimes they do show 309 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:06.480 kind of their gifts and talents when they're little, and 310 00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:08.960 you just got to pay kind of closer attention or 311 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:12.600 close attention to it. Because we have four very different boys. 312 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.000 One of them, for example, would constantly look up in 313 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.480 the sky and look at the weather and notice the weather. 314 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.879 He's a meteorologist, so he did his job shadow with 315 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:26.519 Charlie La Presty at WGME. He put a he did 316 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:30.600 multiple hours with community service with the environment. He put 317 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:32.399 a weather van on the top of the school and 318 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:36.559 on and on. Our other son started throwing things around 319 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:39.440 with his left hand kindly when he was about six 320 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.399 months old, and we're like, oh my, he like looks 321 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.960 like he was a pitcher or baseball player or something. 322 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.720 And so he from a really young age always knew 323 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.879 he wanted to play baseball and that is exactly what 324 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:55.559 he's doing. So you know, people do that. Sometimes people 325 00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:57.399 don't have that figured out though, and they're like, well, 326 00:15:57.399 --> 00:15:59.759 what do I do with my life? And that's even 327 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:03.320 it's your college English degree or your history degree, or 328 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.919 your whatever degree it is. Sometimes the degree doesn't point 329 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.559 sometimes to the same thing, like as cut and dried, 330 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.080 as like a medical degree or pre law degree or 331 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.720 an or a engineering degree or something like that. They 332 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.639 can be tricky. It can be tricky to figure out 333 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:22.799 what you want to do. I know that was a 334 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:23.559 long story, but. 335 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.559 No, no, but it's the stories that we need to 336 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:29.519 be telling because I think kids feel so much pressure 337 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:33.679 and then also we don't necessarily I think once you 338 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:35.720 have a general sense and the other thing we always 339 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:40.159 have to acknowledge is like with AI and globalization and 340 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:42.919 just changes to like the way jobs are done, is 341 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:46.039 that there's gonna be a lot of changes jobs in 342 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.919 the coming years, and just career paths that are so 343 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:50.600 different from what you and I have faced. 344 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:54.960 But everything kind of starts to work together when you 345 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:57.600 have a general sense you enjoy. 346 00:16:57.639 --> 00:16:59.480 And so I think it's a prioritizing where we're going 347 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.240 to college, like like the question of where are we 348 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.839 going to where are we going to college versus why 349 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:07.039 do we want to go to college or what do 350 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:08.799 we want to do with our college degree. 351 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.359 I think that can really take the pressure. 352 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.559 Off of us trying to like fit ourselves into one 353 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.440 of these boxes for like does it have to be 354 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.000 a Boston college or does it have to be like 355 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.000 out here like a univers u c LA or something 356 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:23.519 like that's just really really hard to get into. 357 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.680 Yeah, I'll tell you the story of our oldest son, 358 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.519 just real briefly. You know, our oldest son was like, yeah, 359 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:32.160 I want to go to the University of Maine. So 360 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:37.359 there he was up there, and he decided pretty quickly 361 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.279 that he didn't want to go to the University of Maine. 362 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:42.240 In fact, he didn't want to go to college at all, 363 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:46.039 and he was like, this is the worst experience. I 364 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:48.680 don't want to sit through four years of college. I 365 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:50.680 do not want to be in debt. I do not 366 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:55.480 want to do this. And we were like, that's fine. 367 00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:58.359 Just as nic as you're We said the same thing. 368 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:01.319 You're healthy, happy, and how what are we going to 369 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.559 do to make you financially independent? You know kind of thing. 370 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:05.880 What are you going to do then if you don't 371 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:09.039 want to do this, And he was like, I'm going 372 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:13.720 to get a job. And now he is the senior 373 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:16.759 buyer for Performance Food Group and they did put him 374 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:20.079 through leadership school and things like that, but he does 375 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.079 not have he has three and a half years of school. 376 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:27.480 He quit in his senior year. Ever having any stories 377 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.200 like that, we've. 378 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.640 Actually had, we had a student that we were working 379 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:36.720 we're now actually working with her younger brother. We started 380 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.599 working with her on the pathway to start a junior 381 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.519 college and transfer to a four year university in Los Angeles, 382 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.319 but she ended up getting a job as in production 383 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.119 on a TV show and has already been promoted. And 384 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.200 the decision she came to was like, gosh, like I'm 385 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:52.880 going to go to college to do exactly what I'm 386 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:56.279 doing now, Like maybe I'll go part time or try 387 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:58.279 to fit it in later in life. And it doesn't 388 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:00.839 necessarily easier to find the time to do it, especially 389 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.960 if you have personal commitments like with a relationship or 390 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.960 a family. But we were really really happy for the student, 391 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:10.720 like extremely happy, because it's like she has a purpose 392 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:13.039 and she's enjoying life and. 393 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:14.839 She was. 394 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.039 The decision really came down it's like, do I want 395 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:19.319 to take on two hundred thousandars of debt for something 396 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:22.359 that I don't necessarily need? And so the answer should 397 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:24.920 be noted that that's common sense, Like yes, I'm a 398 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.720 part of the higher education landscape. But I'll be the 399 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:30.359 first to say, but it's not right for everyone, and 400 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:33.119 there's no shame in that. We need to also destigmatize, 401 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:35.720