Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of The Tribe,
cast live from the Austin Central Library. We're so excited
to be taking this show on the road. I'm Eleanor Klibanoff,
law and politics reporter at the Texas Tribune, joined as
always by my co host, editor in chief Matthew Watkins.
Speaker 2: Hello, Eleanor, Hello.
Speaker 3: This is quite weird to be out in the real world.
Speaker 2: Now we will actually be able to see people not
laughing at our jokes live.
Speaker 1: Not gonna be good for our egos, I'll tell you that.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: You know, we're very excited for this conversation because education
has been at the center of the political conversation for
the last few months, with state leaders making a lot
of political hay out of what they think teachers and
students need. But most of these lawmakers have not been
inside a classroom since probably their high school graduation, or
perhaps a little earlier than that for some of them,
so to understand the view from inside the classroom. We're
joined by the Texas tribunes K through twelve report Texas
tribunes K twelve reporter Jaden Edison. Jaden, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 4: Thank you your fans, appreciate you for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Chris Mahailsik, who teaches advanced placement environmental science
at Westwood High School in round Rock and most importantly
is the twenty twenty five TX t O t Y
or the Texas Teacher of the Year. Chris, thanks for.
Speaker 3: Joining us, Thank you for having me. So excited to
be here.
Speaker 4: He's been saying that all day, by the way, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's part of being the Teacher of the Year being
able to handle unruly crowds. Can we rely on.
Speaker 5: You if yeah, I can make sure everybody stays calm
use your teacher voice, yes.
Speaker 6: A crowdsurfer things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Christine, really, thank you for joining us and
congratulations on this honor.
Speaker 3: I mean to start and you know, tell.
Speaker 1: Us a little bit about what it means to even
be the Teacher of the Year and sort of what
what that means to you.
Speaker 5: So being a Teacher of the Year for a state
is really about being of service to the educators of
your state.
Speaker 3: We call it our year of service.
Speaker 5: So I've been talking to people, I've been This is
my first real big podcast though, So I'm excited to
be here and really just amplifying teacher voice and student
voice across Texas.
Speaker 1: Great, well, thank you so much for that. And as
I understand it, you also get to now compete at
the National Teacher of the Year competition.
Speaker 5: I was in the running, you were in the runn
but Ashley cross in one. She's the Pennsylvania Texas Teacher
of the Year.
Speaker 3: She's phenomenal.
Speaker 1: Damn it, actually Crossing, we are coming for you.
Speaker 3: Oh she's pretty nice. No, I'm sure she's amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we want to get into the details
of what this big legislative session for education will mean
for teachers. You know, eight point five billion dollars flowing
into public schools, and Chris maybe even sort of start
us off actually and give us sort of the state
of affairs. You know, how you've seen you know, what
we've heard over the last couple of months has been
you know, decades of underfunding of public schools. How have
you seen that impact you, teachers like you and students statewide.
Speaker 5: I think the biggest thing that we've noticed, especially the
last two years after funding was not past the last
legislative session, is a huge increase in class sizes. So
two years ago, our science classes used to be capped
at twenty eight students, and we'd cap our freshman biology
at twenty four because they're kind of rowdy they need
more help. And then last not this last school year,
but the year before were our cap was at thirty.
And then this last school year, the twenty four to
twenty five, our cap was at thirty four. So in
the last two years alone, we've had, you know, six
more students per classroom, and that means lots of extra grading.
You know, you have to be very mindful to keep
things safe in a science lab, you know, really lots
of impact on teacher workload.
Speaker 2: So you had thirty four people in a class teaching biology.
Speaker 5: Yeah, our biology, we tried to cap our freshman biology
class is a little smaller. They were at thirty. But yeah,
my fourth block class, who I loved. They are amazing humans,
but there are a lot of large athlete senior boys
in there, and it was crowded. My classroom is not
built for thirty four, you know, large humans right all
experiencing the high school live. That's a lot, yeah, a lot.
You know, you gotta be mindful with the science safety
with that many.
Speaker 6: Folks, difficultiesers that pose.
Speaker 4: I'm curious, like in terms of you know, when you
have smaller us bigger, I imagine maybe more difficult to
have individualized kind of attention, oh.
Speaker 5: One hundred percent, the ability to really give deep individual
feedback to thirty four students times. You know, my five
classes of AP environmental science versus twenty eight kids. You know,
that's a whole extra section of kids that we're trying to,
you know, still give the very best possible education we can.
To an English teacher at my school put it really well.
Speaker 3: He's like, you know, I used to teach when I
give essays.
Speaker 5: It used to take me seven hours to grade my
AP English essays, and now with the larger classizes, it
takes me nine and a half.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, jayden As I understand it. At least according to our legislators,
this is all going to be fixed. Now everything's resolved.
Eight point five billion dollars. Tell us a little bit
about you know what where that money is going to,
and you know how far is that going to take
us to restore what some of this underfunding has done.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I've been talking to superintendents and teachers all week,
and I can tell you based off those conversations there's
still a lot of work to be done. You know,
it is eight and a half billion dollars and you know,
really targeted investments, right. I think what makes this bill
different from years past is the difference between flexibility and
you know, restrictions on how districts can use the funding
and so particularly you know, you see a huge chunk
of the bill specifically focused on teacher pay, right. I know,
Governor Greg Abbott and other uh you know leaders in
the legislature have made that a top priority, right in
terms of recognizing that obviously you know, who's in the
classroom greatly has an outsized impact on student success as
it relates specifically, you know to the classroom. I mean,
we're going to see you know, a huge overhaul in
the way that Texas fund special education, which is going
to be huge. Those will going to effect the next
school year, which the Commissioner, Mike Marath will have you know, uh,
you know time you know between the bill going into
effect September one this year and and the following year
to kind of craft what that system is going to
look like. A lot of investment in educator preparation because
of the rise and uncertified teachers. Actually, you know, we'll
see that teachers without formal classroom training will actually be
phased out of foundational you know classes, so social studies, science,
you know, math, reading by the year of twenty thirty.
You know, there's investment in school safety. So it's a
pretty comprehensibile I mean, it's two hundred and thirty one pages.
Someone fact check me if I'm pretty sure I'm right.
Two hundred and thirty one page of legislation here, yeah, right.
Speaker 6: But going back to.
Speaker 4: It, I think the biggest thing though, is, you know,
I think I think districts are generally grateful for the money,
though I do think that they also went into it
hoping for more flexibility than what they ultimately ended up with.
Speaker 2: I'm quoting from the razier hand Texas briefing that came
after that eight point five billion dollars is not even
half of the nineteen point five billion dollars that would
have been needed simply to maintain schools purchasing power since
twenty nineteen, and so I think it is simultaneously true
that this is the biggest individual kind of cash infusion
growth in school funding in the state, while also possibly
true that a lot of people in the education community
are saying there still needs to be more that needs
to be done here, and I think also talking about
how a lot of that money is prescriptive. Right, It's
been an interesting political shift over the time that I've
been involved in covering Texas politics and the way that
a lot of our state leaders have talked about education
and educators as well. You know, there was a lot
of kind of ranker and concerns being raised by superintendents
and other people in the education community about the lack
of funding or the need for funding, and you saw lawmakers,
you know, in some cases, kind of turn the blame
back at the superintendents and saying, you know, this isn't
the result of us not funding you enough. This is
the result of you not being responsible with money that
was coming in, including money that was designated for COVID
and things like that. And then you know, you also
just see I think a much more of a willingness
of lawmakers to sort of question the effectiveness or whether
even you should send your kids to public schools.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: We'll get to vouchers here in a little bit, but
I think you could maybe see that reflected a little
bit and how this wasn't just here's an eight point
five billion dollar blank check to the school districts, just
spend as you see fit. But here's how you're gonna
spend this money. You're gonna spend it on teacher pay.
I'm sure you probably are okay with that idea, but
crazy and various other things as opposed to just increasing
you know, as the popular term, the basic allotment, right,
which would have allowed people to spend that money the
way they way they chose.
Speaker 4: And I think the big thing to note with the
flexibility component, as much as it has to do specifically
obviously with you know, classroom instruction and you know raises,
a big thing is operational costs, which we know, you know,
since twenty nineteen, the last comprehensive education funding bill, we've
seen inflation go through the roof. And so you know,
the basic allotment, this kind of flexible funding mechanism that
districts call them for is just as much to try
to keep up and pay for bus fuel, right to
make sure you know, they have you know, money to
address the NEEDE specific to their campuses, and kind of
what their argument is is that you know, when you're
giving US specific funding. You're assuming that we all have
the same issues, right as opposed to you know, this
district in West Texas has significant differences from what's happening
in Houston is ISD, right, and so it's been a
really interesting thing to kind of observe kind of the
you know, the kind of back and forth over the
course of the session.
Speaker 2: Can we talk a little bit about teacher recruitment, retention
and pay here. I mean, that's a big part of
HB two, the funding bill. There is there's two different
factors here. There is the teacher pay raises, but there's
also this effort to address what has been a concern
in the education community about teachers coming in who did
not have the sort of traditional training to become teachers
and everything like that. I'm curious in your experience whether
that was something you noticed as a teacher, that more
uncertified teachers were coming in, and if so, was it
a problem. How did you experience or witness that as
as an educator out there in the field.
Speaker 5: So I'm also the Science department chare in our school,
and our school is very big on teacher leadership. So
I've been in a lot of interviews in the last
four years of folks coming in wanting to be a teacher,
and we have been forced to hire somebody that's not
been certified. We had somebody leave two years ago two
weeks before school started to be an assistant principle, and
we had to fill that position. And it is very
hard to hire anybody at all two weeks before school starts,
so we had a long term sub for six weeks
and we hired somebody that was uncertified. She had a
PhD in biology, and you know, she was fabulous with
the content, but not having any classroom experience, classroom management planning,
she did not She did not serve our teenagers, she
did not engage with our students, she did not.
Speaker 3: Serve our teenagers.
Speaker 5: So she did not make it through the years. Hire
someone else. We had the same thing happened last year.
We had somebody leave to be an instructional coach. And
I'm always happy when people can move up in education,
but it's tough to find people. In July and we
had somebody that was not uncertified, had not been in
a classroom before. It didn't last very long. So there
is huge value in having those folks come in that
are certified that have gone through a program where they've
interacted with teenagers before they get to us, and then
it puts a huge burden on the teachers that have
to work and mentor them and train them. Our mentor
teachers were often spending two of their five off blocks
a week directly working with teachers trying to get them
up to speed and mentorship is amazing, but that was
extensive mentorship because they just didn't have any experience with teenagers.
So from my perspective, I want a good certified teacher
in every classroom in Texas, and passing this and hopefully
strengthening our pipeline will really help, I think well.
Speaker 1: And I want to talk about the other side of that,
which is like retaining qualified teachers. You've been in the
field twenty three years. I'm sure you've probably would not
have been Texas Teacher of the Year your first year,
like oh no, oh no, Like what is the benefit
of having teachers who have been in this for a
long time? I mean, for in your specific classroom, but
also you're talking about being becoming a mentor teacher.
Speaker 5: Oh the things that you learn along the way, you know,
even I started teaching ap environmental science eight years I
think into my career and even my first year I
was kind of horrible then too. Even though I knew
how to manage students and work with them, I forgot
two of the six major air pollutants.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I was teaching them.
Speaker 6: So my, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Now Pennsylvania they went back and checked and checked the
record and.
Speaker 3: Pennsylvania managed all six of them.
Speaker 5: But no, there's there's so much value in getting better
in your job and becoming a master teacher. You learn
where the students misconceptions are. You learn how to help
other people in your field grow. Uh, those are the
ones that are running our major clubs, right, like our
National Honor Society, that type of thing. So retention, I
think there's been a lot of focus on like let's
just get any human into the classroom, and I think
really the focus needs to be how do we retain
our good teachers?
Speaker 3: How do we keep them the race helps? What else
do we need to do?
Speaker 4: Which is what ultimately created where we're at right now,
right is that you know, you had so many teachers
that left the profession, and so you know, I think
you know what we found is that you know, through
kind of particular legislation passed, you know, intending for one thing,
ended up becoming a lifeline for many districts, you know,
in terms of now you know, I'm able to bring
in teachers because you know, qualified teachers are leaving the classroom.
So it's a really it's an interesting It's interesting that
this is a focus for lawmakers because in a lot
of ways, you know, it was a problem created that
they created, but almost it was unintended, you know, given
the law that passed that allowed kind of the exemptions
you know, for certification.
Speaker 1: So well, and one of the things I found we
did an entire episode of the trip cast about uncertified
teachers and that sort of issue, and one of the
things I found so interesting from that is like teachers
who maybe would have otherwise gotten certified, who are now saying, well,
if I get paid the same and I don't have
to do all this training, like I'll just go in
the classroom and figure it out as I go. So
it's a disincentive even to teachers who might want to
get certified if that's not required. So it briefly walks
through like what the provision is, like they'll have to phase.
Speaker 4: This out right, they'll phase it out, So that'll be
by by twenty thirty that'll be I think, I forget
the specificate, but it'll be twenty thirty when the commissioner
when he can no longer allow exceptions to so it'll
be a gradual kind of phase out. But the other
important thing to notice that now you know, teachers will
be able to be compensated or excuse me, teacher candidates
will be able to be compensated for going through high
quality preparation programs, right, whether that be you know, this
this new kind of apprenticeship model that has come around
and gained a lot of tracks in recent years, which
basically I've actually visited one of these in huddle. They're
kind of really cool when you go up and see them.
It's basically, you know, you have these these teacher candidates
who spend you know, considered amount of time in the
class room working with a veteran teacher kind of learning
under their wing. And so what they're trying to do
again is to gradually kind of phase out these teachers
specifically again to clarify in core kind of these core
foundational subjects reading, mad science, social studies, while also incentivizing
teachers to go through quality training programs and get them
on a pathway to certification.
Speaker 2: And then the other thing is to keep them, as
you already mentioned, right, and a big part of that
is teacher raises.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: And so I'm reading this from a story that Jaden wrote,
so you know, properly attributing here.
Speaker 3: Public.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so districts in uh within school teachers with teachers
in school districts with more than five thousand students with
three to four years experience get a twenty five hundred
dollars raise. Five thousand dollar rais for five or more
years experience that's in increases to four thousand and eight
thousand if you're in a smaller district, more likely a
rural district where attracting teachers is more challenging. So my
question to you is, I mean, I know this probably
happened after school is out, and you know, but what
is the feeling among the teachers you talk to? What
is your feeling about this? Is this enough? Is this
going to change things in terms of keeping teachers around
or incentivizing people to join the profession.
Speaker 5: I think it feels a little bit like just some respect,
some respect for the profession, like, we realize you are
not being paid.
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of teachers have side hustle jobs.
Speaker 5: We great essays in the summer, We mentor a lot
of teachers in math, especially tutor So it feels respectful,
like we're acknowledging that we haven't had a teacher raise
in a while.
Speaker 3: Our district gives teacher.
Speaker 5: Raises, but this is probably the biggest raise I've ever
gotten as an educator in my twenty three years.
Speaker 3: And once, yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Was talking to it, actually a teacher today in a district.
They're about eight hundred and thirty students total in their district,
so very rural community. And it was interesting because she's
been teaching for like twenty four years as well, so
you know, we were talking and she's like, you know,
this all sounds great, but I'll believe it whenever my
paycheck actually increases. So yeah, it's really interesting. But to me,
it was funny. I laughed, but it highlighted kind of
somewhat of this kind of distrust. I mean, you've gone,
you know, so long with the kind of back and
forth between the ISDS and lawmakers about you know, adequate funding,
and that I think some people, teachers and maybe you
could speak to this, are kind of just fatigued and
are just like, Hey, if it's going to happen, it'll happen.
When when my superintendent or principal tells me I'm getting
the raise, I'll believe it. But for right now, I'm
just gonna sit back and keep doing.
Speaker 6: What I'm doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think certainly.
Speaker 1: I think, Like I remember, I mean two years ago
when the funding sort of fell apart, that there was
a lot of sort of teachers who were like I
was sort of banking on that. I kind of thought
that was happening. I would imagine this time around owned
a lot more skepticism and a lot more wait wait
till I see it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, I think with the way the bill
is structured, you know, it'll be quite some time before
I think the story's actually written on house build too,
because there are these kind of new funding mechanisms. One,
I think districts have to actually get the money in
their hands and kind of realize, you know, understand, kind
of you know what's allow here? How can I use
this money there?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: Because of the different restrictions and whatnot. So I think
people are generally grateful right now, but again there's there's
a lot of time I think until again the verdict
will be out on whether the money did what it
was intended to do and what lawmakers ultimately hope it
will accomplish.
Speaker 2: How would you compare you said you've been in teaching
for twenty three years, how would you compare teacher morale
right now compared to earlier in your career.
Speaker 5: Well, I think my first couple years I was pretty clueless.
I was just trying to kind of make it happen.
But I think the last two years, teacher morale is
lower than I've ever seen in probably the increase in
class size, the feeling that like there was plenty of
money in the Rainy defund last legislative session and nothing
was done because vouchers didn't get passed. I think teachers
are struggling a little bit right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think COVID, you know, hit everyone
pretty hard obviously in many sectors, but I think teachers
really are dealing with the long tail of that.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 1: I do want to talk about what you alluded to
and sort of what has gotten in the way of
these sort of deals in previous sessions and what really,
if we're being honest about the political process, got this
money over the finish line this time, which is that
it was tied to passing. You know, Texas's very significant
voucher program. Texas now has the largest day one voucher
program in the country, a billion dollars to allow families
to receive about ten thousand dollars per child to send
them to private schools. Talk about a bill where the
story is yet to be written a little bit, but
Jane tells a little bit about you know, do we
have any sense of what the impact will be on
public schools from this long term?
Speaker 6: Yeah? You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 4: There's always a lot of focus on kind of you know,
enrollment in particular. Well, we see in other states, you
haven't seen kind of this mass exodus that that people anticipate.
Speaker 6: We'll always draw attention to.
Speaker 4: I think though, it's going to be funding right in particular,
and so what I mean by that is, you know,
the state won't always be operating at a what's the
surplus now twenty five billion somewhere somewhere along those lines,
and so you know, you have a billion dollars right now.
You know, towards this particular program, which we know will
grow in size as the program kind of grows in
future years. Is law makers allocate more funding toward it.
When you get in a situation where you know, you
are in a budget crunch, where do you cut from?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: You know, is it public education right, which you know
really is the hardened foundation of you know, Texas communities,
you know, really all across the state, right, we all
know Friday night lights and particularly in our rural communities
where you know, these are major employers for families and whatnot,
you know, or do you cut from you know, the
valuer program, so that that's what is more interesting than
me per se, not as much enrollment because again I
don't think you're gonna see this mass exodus. And that's
just looking at evidence in other states that have implemented
you know, the these large universe what they call universal programs.
But certainly, you know, when it comes to budgetary decisions
in the future again, I mean right now, I mean,
you know, there was eight and a half billion dollars
in HB two. There are people probably in this room
lawmakers who say that, you know, it should have been
nine and a half. You pulled the money from from
the voucher program, right, So that's where I think the
conversation gets really interesting.
Speaker 2: I think the thing that I particularly will be watching
will be demand for these right because if you do
the math right, the number of private school students right now,
if you multiply that by around ten thousand, which is
around how much a voucher will be worth, that number
is more than a billion dollars, right, And so are
we going to see a situation where demand for these
vouchers is immediately more than what the supply is available?
And if so, what are lawmaker is going to do
about it? You know, there was a thing, I think
it was the Legislative Budget Board put out an estimate
that you know, this could quickly escalate to four point
eight billion dollars by twenty thirty. There was a lot
of pushback among the lawmakers on that and saying like
they're making this, They're not basing this prediction on anything,
like we make the decision as to whether we increase it.
And I think if demand does significantly outstrip supply outpaced supply,
how much pressure will there be to expand the program
and will they want to do that? And If so,
that's where you might see it start to be more expensive.
If not, you know, I think eight point five billion dollars.
I think a lot of school district would would take
eight point five billion dollars with a one billion dollar
voucher program. They'll they'll look back at this and see
its successful. Though you know, we just don't know how
that's gonna play out yet. You can guess, but we'll
have to just see.
Speaker 4: One quick thing that's interesting to noteut you know, I've
been watching following closely at Tennessee because this year they
actually you know, passed their voucher program and the implement
implementation is kind of now in play, and so they've
already seen you know, at the onset, you know, more
applications than spots available, and so you have to imagine
I mean, the state, the size of Texas. Right, you're
gonna again think about it. I mean, if you're even
if you're you know, if you're a family that has
children that road in private schools already, right, this is
this makes all the sense in the world for you
to apply, right, and you are I'm sure you know
that the schools will be advertising it, right. So the
one thing that makes Texas unique is that there is
this kind of gap year to kind of really build
the program out and to get kind of awareness out there,
because you know, usually you know, you might see, like
in Tennessee, for example, you passed the program, it's going
to be implemented, you know, the next school year around
this time around you this is we have until twenty six,
twenty seven school year. The comptroller who oversees the state's
finances will be kind of ironing things out, you know,
between September and May of next year. So a lot,
there is a lot to your point, that has to
kind of get figured out. But it'd be really interesting
to see given the size of Texas and where we are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Chris, I mean, how are public school teachers feeling
about this? I mean, what is the you talked about
the rays feeling like respect from lawmakers? How is this
voucher program sort of being received?
Speaker 5: Obviously, most public school teachers would prefer the money go
to public school kids. I think the big issue that
sticks in a lot of teachers, Craw is that the
rules aren't the same. Now that that you know, private
schools are getting public tax payer dollars, they should have
to play by the same rules we do, right, Like
they should have to hire certified teachers and they don't.
They should have to get their attendance a lot meant
day by day like we do. We have average daily
attendance and we get based on how many kids are
in our class every day. And there just seems to
be getting the ten thousand dollars. You know, it just
doesn't feel like we're playing by the same rules. There's
no real accountability system that they have to We have
to give the star and then we get rated A
through F. Is there going to be an A through
F for the private school? Is there going to be
star accountability? I mean it sounds like no. So it
doesn't feel fair now that public funds are going to
private schools that they don't have the same level of
accountability we do.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of this sort of and
Matthew sort of alluded to this is in this larger
thing of like lawmakers seemingly at odds with public schools
or wanting more oversight, wanting more it's sort of just
a little bit of like what seems like a fundamental
like distrust of the schools and of what's being taught
in the schools and the amount of sort of control
they have over all of that. I do want to
talk about sort of did you do something on vouchers before.
Speaker 2: We Well, no, I mean I was just going to say, like,
there's there's there's two arguments that were pushed for this.
One is that, right, like you saw Governor Rabbit go
around the state and talk about, you know, a concern
that a lot of parents have about what you know,
values are being taught to their students, right, and this,
he says, gives them a choice to go seek a
school that more aligns with their values. The other one
would be, I mean the case that they make, whether
you agree with it or not, is that if that
the accountable accountability system for school vouchers is the sort
of free market system. Right, if you don't think this
school is doing well for at teaching your kid, you
can go and send your kid to another school, whether
that's leaving a public school to a private school, or
a private school to a charter school, or all those
different types of things, and you know, we will see
what happens and whether whether those outcomes improved. It's I mean,
it's there's there's we're now at the moment where it's
just kind of like it's happening and let's see how
it goes.
Speaker 1: It's like two core tenants of the current you know,
governing party in Texas, which is free market and you know,
stamp out liberal you know, indoctrination. I mean, these are
two if anything, you know, the latter is sort of
times rising and influence and over the former. I do
want to talk about some of those bills that did
sort of purport to stamp out at liberal indoctrination or
give parents more oversight over that. A big one, you know,
is about libraries themselves, school libraries you know, going forward,
parents through the school board. But really, you know the
premise of this bill is that parents will have more
say over the books that are on school library shells
going forward, rather than librarians themselves. This builds on legislation
from last session that you know, aim to do something
sort of similar. Jaden, We saw a lot of pushback
to this bill from Democratic lawmakers. I watched some of
these hearings. You know a lot of librarians showed out
in full force. Honestly, a terrifying group to piss off,
is what I learned from that. You know, talk a
little bit about what the impact of that bill is
and sort of how that fits into this larger narrative
around you know, giving parents more say in the classroom.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really interesting what it reminds me of. You know,
I've you know, been back here in Texas. It'll be
a year actually coming up here in a couple of weeks,
and it just reminds me. I was watching somewhat I'm
related but very much connected state Board of Education meeting
maybe this was around this time last year, and there
was you know, a parent who who was basically an activist, right,
and she showed up. She's like one of the only
people who's testifying during like the public speaking portion, and
she's just like harping at the uh the state Board
of Education members for you know, the lack of remedy,
what she feels when it comes to you know, books,
and she's reading off the most explicit, like vulgar things,
you know, excerpts from books. What's interesting is same person
is testifying, you know, during public hearings here this year
during the session. And so while I bring that up,
I mean, what I'm trying to get at is that
you know, Ultimately, what you're seeing is you know, people
who you know, as part of this larger movement that
we've seen really start brewing, you know, really at the
brunt of the pandemic where you know, it's part of
this larger kind of you know, I guess backlash to
the way schools go about you know, teaching. You know
America's you know history of racism, you know how it
accommodates you know, uh, you know, trans students.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: I think what we've seen this session, particularly with the
library bill, you know, takes that a step further right,
and ultimately, what the legislature is saying, and what they've
been very clear about is that they believe that parents
need to be in the driver's seat. Now, obviously, a
lot of the pushback, you know, the question becomes, you know,
which parents are we talking about? Right, because you know,
there are a lot of parents who show up and
testify at the Capitol and other places whose voices, you know,
who they feel like their voices aren't heard. And so
it's been it's been interesting. But I bring that up
is that it's been bruined. Is that you have these
people who are you know, really you know kind of
locked in on you know, what's going on in different places,
and you know they're part of these kind of different
movements or organizations and connected with different people who really
across the country have made this, you know a thing
over the course of the last uh, you know, half
decade or so.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean we're seeing I mean some of those
people get elected. I mean Representative Hillary Hickland. That was
sort of her origin story was you know, she was
got involved at school boards and in like you know,
what she would say is like trying to get obscene
materials out of libraries. And now she's in the state
House carrying that legislature that so it's certainly seems to
be taking hold. You know, this has like been a
sort of conservative what's sort of like like the field
team to sort of you know, get up to the
to the major leagues.
Speaker 4: Just one thing about quick like watching lawmakers listen to
the excerpt from those books. It has been really interesting
because you see almost how it's happening in real time.
Because no, I think I don't think anybody would deny
that the things that we're hearing at those meetings are
like whoa like you know, like WHOA Right, So It's interesting,
right the question become obviously now we can talk about,
you know, whether certain things are out of context or
you know, there are different there's kind of nuance to it.
But just in terms of the kind of lawmaking process,
it's been really fascinating to kind of watch that up close.
I mean, I've seen you know, you know Chairman, you know,
Brad Buckley, you know who's the House of the Public
Education Committee, who they're sitting up listening to you know,
the excerpts, and in real time you're kind of seeing
things developed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just just to your point about the politics of this,
it's been interesting to watch. It's really been swinging back
and forth, right because you saw that big wave of
lawmaker of school boards, you know, in South Lake and
then beyond where where this became really a winning issue
in school boards this past May when they're you know,
when the legislature was doing all these things. Another thing
that happen then was a bunch of school board elections
in which almost all of the school boards supported by
this kind of you know, these packs and these these
other forces, their candidates were voted out or lost, you know,
and so the pendulum kind of keeps swinging back and forth,
and you know, I'm interested to see what impact this
actually has. You know, are there really that many books
in school libraries that have this kind of material in there?
Is this going to have a material impact?
Speaker 6: Also?
Speaker 2: Are kids still checking out these books? You know? A lot?
Speaker 1: Well? And like, I think a lot of it comes
down to, like do you trust librarians to kind of
run their library right and to be responsible of that? Chris,
I'm curious, like how you've have you spelt sort of
this rising tide of parental involvement or of scrutiny of
the work you're doing. Have you felt that in your district?
Speaker 3: Not a whole lot. I think.
Speaker 5: I think our librarians are amazing, and I think they've
been able to kind of run their library as they
so choose. The thing that I find so interesting about
this whole like we're going to ban these explicit books,
Like kids can get all kinds of things on their phone.
Oh yeah, you know, so it's sort of like, why
are you know, what are your kids doing on their phone?
Because it's probably worse than the book they're not checking
out from the library.
Speaker 2: Well they can't, you know, they can't take their friends
school anymore either, right, isn't that they'll be developed?
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The one thing I was going to add though, is
that this bill, in my opinion, again I'm not a lawyer,
but it has legal challenge written all over. And the
reason I say that is because there's a particular provision
in the bill that you know, if a book gets challenged,
it's pulled off the shelves, right, And so you get
into this territory. We're'll be curious to see. Again, I
don't I can't predict the future, but it'll be interesting
to see kind of what the you know, how kind
of legal groups will response to this. We know they've
been very vocal about other legislation kind of in the
same vicinity, and so it'll be I don't think you know,
the discussion is over on you know, obviously, you know
it goes into effect. You know, we'll see kind of
you know, what happens after the fact. But I think
folks will have something to say about it, because again,
what it does is it puts it. I mean, really,
what they're saying is that you know, these parents, they
are ultimately they altoately have the power to determine what
the community's values are right, and that's a big part
of how the legislation. I mean that's actually like specific
like language and the bills it talks about like community values,
and so again, it's really interesting. I'll be curious to
see how this also fits into like the national landscape
as well. Given again texasercise, it's always has outside influence.
But yeah, I think there's a lot still to be
kind of written on this particular topic.
Speaker 1: And certainly we've seen bills like or laws like this
get challenged in court and in some cases get basically
knocked down. So yeah, I think that's a pretty solid
prediction librarians not taking this laying down.
Speaker 4: I talked to a librarian earlier, and you know, one
thing that really struck me was just like how much
I don't think people actually realize like like librarians. And
I think she was telling me earlier, like you know,
we're required to have master's degrees, right, like we are,
Like this is a very like rigorous process, so we're
not just people who just show up and just you know,
scan a book you know here, and they're like it's
a pretty like hard job and like takes a lot
of skill in telling that. So I think that's why
you probably saw a lot of the backlash, and it's like,
you know, we want you to understand exactly what we do, right,
and we need to be at the table if you're
making decisions having to do with our.
Speaker 1: Profession, right, yeah, trust us to do our job sort
of to just I want to briefly talk about an
issue that a couple of the kids in the room
might care about, which is the not dead yet Star Test.
The attempt to get rid of this large annual assessment
and now they lawmakers were unable to strike a deal,
so the Star Test lives. Chris, can you talk a
little bit about like the Star Test, how do teachers
feel about it?
Speaker 3: The students and generally just.
Speaker 1: Like this test, teach to the test mentality. I think
lawmakers were worried about well. Testing causes a lot of
anxiety for our students, especially I think in the younger grades.
By the time they get to high school, they're a
little bit more jaded about it, but it still takes
up quite a bit of our time, you know, making
sure those kids. For example, of the English skills for
the English Test or the O in our worldest is
the Biology test. I think teachers were not thrilled about
the idea of three tests a year, So I think.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's good that that's gone.
Speaker 5: But yeah, testing is a challenging one and I really
wish there was more teacher representation with the people making
these decisions that really have been in the classroom that
understand Like, I could never make a decision about how
elementary school testing could go, you know why as a
legislator that has never been in the classroom before making
those decisions for us, I'd love to see more teacher
input on testing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just seems like it's a very it's a
good applause line if you're a politician to be like,
we're getting rid of the Star test because people don't
like it and people don't like standardized tests. Right, But
then you kind of get into the nee gridy of like, Okay,
we there needs to be some way to measure how
successful schools are, right, there needs to be some way
to hold them accountable. And then it starts to sort
of break down from there and it gets a lot harder. Right,
you just talked about like they were talking about three
separate tests which would have been maybe designed to you know,
in their minds be a bit more effective of measuring.
But then now you have three high pressure tests throughout
the school year that that is also stressful for people.
And uh, it's it's I think it's less complaicated on
the campaign trail and more complicated when you actually get
into how are we going to do this and how
are you actually going to make sure that our students
are getting what they need in order to you know, succeed.
Speaker 4: I think one thing that we I think, you know,
we also have to mention a big part of that
bill would at least, you know, in the Senate version,
would have given the Commissioner of Education a considerable amount
of authority when it relates to basically what they were
trying to do is lay the hammer down toward districts
who sue, you know, whenever they disagree about you know,
the accountability system, and so you know, it would have
honestly put them you know, you know, uh, they could
have been you know, liable to have a conservator you
know appointed, you know, you know in their district if
they were to sue you know against you know, changes made,
and so obviously it was a big part of it
was the test itself, right, and I think it's actually interesting.
Like that was the one thing that seemed to have
like somewhat kind of universal agreement was that like we
need to get rid of the star. But ultimately, once again,
you know, it didn't happen. I'll be curious to see
kind of it. Perhaps it sounds like they feel like
they made some progress and momentum this session, just judging
on I was in Salado last week at the House
Built Too bill signing, so I'd be curious to see,
like if this, if this is actually like if this
was meaningful in the long term, where when they come
back in what twenty seven, you know, they're picking up
you know, at a you know, at a better place
maybe than where they have in previous years.
Speaker 6: But but to your point, we'll see kind of what happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely well, we're gonna have to leave it there.
But before we do, Chris Jaden, I'm hoping you guys
each I mean, it was a huge legislative session for education.
A lot of promises made, a lot of stuff changed.
If you had to give the Texas legislature a grade
on a scale of an A to F in terms
of you know, Chris, I want from you you know
on you know, promises upheld to teachers. Jaden, just generally,
you know, how are we feeling about how education got
made it through the session?
Speaker 3: Matthew thoughts on this before.
Speaker 2: They do this, great, just be careful Jaden.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just on and you know how how well did
they uphold their promises from the beginning of session?
Speaker 3: Okay? I have two grades B plus on teacher pay.
Speaker 2: Great, do schools get B pluses? I think the eight
through F doesn't do a plus or minus?
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, she can do it, get B this is
the classroom.
Speaker 5: And then I think for funding of schools d I
really would have liked to see some more of an
increase in basic allotment to help fund basic operations for schools.
Speaker 1: Jade lest out if you're ever going to hear back
from Chairman Buckley.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't know if I have a you know,
particular grade, I mean the one. The one thing I
will say is that I think, you know, what didn't
happen in twenty twenty three may I think makes the perception.
Speaker 6: Of house built too.
Speaker 4: Uh. It's a little it's a little bit difficult to
celebrate for some people out in the public. Head community
just because again you know, since you know, the comprehensive
funding bill did not pass in twenty twenty three. I
mean we're seeing you know, school districts the size of
Houston ISD that are considering you know, closures. You know,
we're seeing budget deficits, you know, in droves. Obviously we
talk about our special education funding gap, which I know
lawmakers you know, made some significant changes this year that
will kind of chip away at that, but there are
just some really significant needs. And so you know, as
a reporter, as I look at the as I look
at the situation, you know, I think, you know, it's
my job right to ask those questions of yes, this
is a moment that obviously you're celebrating, but there was
a lot also left on the table, you know, two
years ago that are going to have lingering impacts, and
then not even just two years ago. Prior to that,
you know, you know, schools is base funding, you know,
which gives them the flexibility to address operational costs, and
you know, the things that are unique to their campuses
hadn't been raised since twenty nineteen, and so there's a
lot of work the legislature has to do. I think
they they I'm sure they understand that. And while you
know this is you know, they see this is kind
of a historic, huge moment. I think, you know, as
I've been out, you know, talking to districts and teachers,
I think people are grateful for the money, grateful for
the investments. But make no mistake, I don't think anybody's
saying that the job is done and that you know,
you know, this is it. I think, you know, Matthew
pointed out earlier, I think the gap between you know,
the money now and the twenty nineteen funding levels is
somewhat roughly ten billion or something like that.
Speaker 6: So a lot of work to be done.
Speaker 3: This is why they hate journalists.
Speaker 1: We're like, good work, more to do though, yeah, always yeah, Well,
thank you so much. Uh, first to Jaden for joining us.
Also to Chris Mahil Sick. And that is this week's
episode of the Trim Cast.
Speaker 2: H