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Daily bonuses 21 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:00.920 are waiting. No purchase necessary, boy, we're prohibited by long 22 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:02.679 team plus terms and conditions of playing. 23 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:03.880 See website for details. 24 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:17.480 Love to Canadian, You are now listening to True Murder, 25 00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:21.319 The most Shocking Killers in True crime History and the 26 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:26.319 authors that have written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The 27 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:32.200 Nightstalker BTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the 28 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:36.040 most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True 29 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:49.640 Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 30 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:52.879 Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 31 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:55.760 program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in true crime 32 00:01:55.879 --> 00:02:00.280 History and the authors that have written about them. A 33 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:02.840 vain man of good looks but no family tied to 34 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:06.799 the mob, Vincent Vinni Gorgious Basciano worked his way up 35 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:10.360 to acting boss of the Banano crime family, becoming its 36 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:13.520 leader when official boss Joseph Massino went to prison in 37 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.960 two thousand and three. When the mafia was crawling with 38 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:20.560 secret operatives and informants. Caving to government pressure to flip, 39 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:25.960 Basciano steadfastly obeyed the code of La casinostra. I got 40 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:29.560 faith in one guy, he said during a secretly taped meeting. 41 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:34.159 That man was Messino, head of the Banano Borgada. But 42 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:37.240 for all his loyalty, Basciano was still a hot headed, 43 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:42.719 cold blooded killer, which ultimately led to his arrest and downfall. Then, 44 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:45.680 in a remarkable betrayal that rocked the Five families to 45 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:50.919 their foundations, Messino secretly cooperated with the FBI, the first 46 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:54.479 head boss ever to roll over. As a result, Basciano 47 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:57.879 faced the death penalty, but a federal jury, disturbed by 48 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:03.560 the prosecution's use of deadly criminal informants, reached a surprising verdict. Here, 49 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:07.039 from veteran crime author Anthony M. Di Stefano comes the 50 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:09.759 riveting story of the last true believer in the mobs 51 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:12.719 cult of Brotherhood and his betrayal at the hands of 52 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:17.960 the only man he ever trusted. The book that we're 53 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:22.479 featuring this evening is Vinnie Gorgeous, The Ugliest Ugly Rise 54 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:25.759 and Fall of a New York Mobster, with my special 55 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:30.080 guest journalist and author, Anthony M. Di Stefano. Welcome back 56 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.479 to the program. Anthony di Stefano. 57 00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:34.680 Thank you, and you can call me Tony. 58 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.400 Okay, Tony, thank you very much. Thank you for coming 59 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:41.919 back on This is another great book, this one you've 60 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:45.960 vot done yourself. Let's get right to this now. I 61 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:49.919 love the way you set up this book and you 62 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.360 drew us in and like I was saying to you 63 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:54.960 in earlier in the just before we went on the air, 64 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:59.439 the very soprano ish in terms of you grabbed the 65 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.960 reader and bring them right into something that we see 66 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:06.800 only in the movies. So let's talk about first the 67 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:14.879 the sort of colorful character of Randy Randolph Puzzolo and 68 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:17.319 just how you start in the book. Let's talk about 69 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:21.439 this guy's sort of erratic character and who he is 70 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:26.439 and his role in the mafia. Tell us about this 71 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.759 Randolph Puzzolo and how you start in your in your book, 72 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:31.600 Vinnie Gorgeous. 73 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:35.240 Yeah, I opened. I opened the book with the scene 74 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:40.319 where Pizzolo was killed, because it really allowed us entree 75 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:44.000 into the wider story. Pisolo was one of these tragic 76 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:48.240 characters who had aspirations to join the mob and wanted 77 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:50.639 to be a maid member and you know, did his 78 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.079 h did his work and had his loyalties, but he 79 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:57.360 had a lot of problems, and some of the problems 80 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:02.240 was his sort of poor impulse control. He did things 81 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:07.399 that embarrassed people and showed that he was somewhat hot tempered. 82 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:16.079 He also had the misfortune of doing some poor construction 83 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.360 work at a time when it was very important that 84 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:24.360 he do well in his jobs, his straight jobs, as 85 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:28.199 it were, and that seemed to antagonize people around him, 86 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:32.920 including Bassiano, who really used him on a number of projects. 87 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:39.319 But really it was a confluence of things. His pouring 88 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:46.720 pulse control, his embarrassed, embarrassing episodes where he was doing 89 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:50.519 things with guns and bars and stuff and shooting up 90 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:57.680 places really started to within on people, and ultimately, you know, 91 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:03.279 his number came up, and he was and he knew 92 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:05.680 something was going on. He knew he didn't have long 93 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.680 untill live. In fact, the night he was killed, he 94 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:10.800 was supposed to meet an insurance agents and take out 95 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:15.439 an insurance policy on his life. And he went to 96 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.720 this location in green Point, which is a sort of 97 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:26.600 deserted industrial place in Brooklyn between Brooklyn and Queens right 98 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:30.639 on the Cusp, and it's a gritty industrial area. And 99 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.279 he drove there and he was meeting a couple of 100 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:35.399 characters he was expected to meet. He was going to 101 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:37.199 meet them, and he thought it was just going to 102 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:38.600 be a short meeting and then he was going to 103 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:42.639 go do his life insurance policy and then have drinks 104 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.720 with another friend of his. Well, it didn't happen. He 105 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.959 was gunned down on the street, and people coming to 106 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:51.920 work the next morning at about six point thirty or 107 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:54.759 so found his body on the street. And that was 108 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.240 the murder of Randy Pizzolo, and that was really the 109 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:03.319 nub of the case against Bassiano. The solving of that 110 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:07.079 murder and the gathering of evidence was the thing that 111 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:13.120 sort of put the Feds finally onto Vinnie Bassiano. It was, 112 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:15.879 you know, it was just a cool, bloody shooting and 113 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:18.439 it was done, as we found out through the evidence 114 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:22.959 in the case, by his friend Ace, a guy by 115 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:27.959 the name of al who is the triggerman. And that's 116 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.319 what loyalty is in the mob. That's what happens. 117 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:34.480 Now. Dude, what I really liked is you painted you 118 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:37.199 talk about these guys. It's not like these guys are 119 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.199 shy about doing murders, but it is not something that 120 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:44.240 it can just happen. And you explain how if somebody 121 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:49.040 were to kill someone without this being cleared by the boss, 122 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:51.800 that might get you killed itself. The thing that you 123 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:56.240 talked about this Pizzolo being especially well somebody wanted to 124 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:59.360 kill him, was especially a couple of the things that 125 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:03.079 he did do. He was again harassing an agent in 126 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:06.519 a restaurant again, and you explained in the book that's 127 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:10.399 because the mafia would really like people to take to 128 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:12.439 leave people alone that are just doing their job. So 129 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:14.240 that's the way they see it. And the other thing 130 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:16.319 was he had said to someone else, I guess in 131 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:20.920 one of the families, that they better not be a 132 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:23.199 rat or try to be a rat. So these are 133 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:26.360 kind of things that are major offenses, aren't they. And 134 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:28.439 so he didn't get killed for nothing, right. 135 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.240 Well, he was you know, he kept screwing up in 136 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:34.840 small and big ways, and you know, in sort of 137 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:38.759 embarrassing people and insulting people. And after a while that's 138 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:41.759 starting to wear thin. And then he was told what 139 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:45.200 really sort of I think ice the case against him, 140 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.799 but that he was told, you know, to leave New York, 141 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:51.279 go down to Florida and you know, take care of 142 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:53.879 some projects in Florida. And he didn't want to go. 143 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:55.559 You know, he had his family here, he had his 144 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:59.240 daughter here, he had you know, other interest here, and 145 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:00.759 he didn't want to go. He wasn't going to go, 146 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:03.320 he said, I'm not going. So that sort of put 147 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:07.200 him on the radar. And when you when you sort 148 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:11.320 of diss the leadership and you don't go or get 149 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.559 chased as it were, when you're supposed to, that's gonna 150 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:17.000 things are going to happen. And that's what happened. 151 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:21.879 Yeah, And he knew, especially when that occurrence, that thing 152 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:24.720 happened in terms of asked, asked to be going to Florida, 153 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:26.720 he knew what that meant, right and him, he knew. 154 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:28.720 What you got to get out of here. Yeah, you 155 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:30.559 got to get out here otherwise you're going to have trouble. 156 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:32.919 And he didn't go, and he got in a lot 157 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:34.919 of trouble fatally. 158 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.960 Now you talk, you talk about as Anthony ale and 159 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:43.279 who killed Pizzolo when they find evidence shows later that 160 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:46.840 but he's a soldier with Vincent bi Biano. 161 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:52.440 Uh, and so tell us that the pronunciation of the 162 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.960 best thing screwed me up too. His family had a 163 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:59.559 different pronunciation even for me or Basciano. They they put 164 00:09:59.559 --> 00:10:02.399 the kind of accent on the on the middle syllables. 165 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:08.720 But uh, you know, we'll call him Vinnie gorgeous simplifies it. Uh, 166 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:15.240 but he he I think your question was, uh, what 167 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:21.000 Ace's connection was to Bashano and he was under h 168 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:23.679 under Vinnie's asia as it were he was part of 169 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:25.080 his his crew of people. 170 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:25.960 Uh. 171 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:29.240 He was a very loyal dog as they call him, 172 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:35.440 and Vashiano called him my look of Brasa looka Brasi rather, 173 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:38.120 who is a character from the Godfather film who was 174 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.919 the sort of loyal supplicant who would do anything. And 175 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:45.840 that's what that was Iola's reputation. He would do anything. 176 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:51.000 Include it's great you showed the photo of the guy. 177 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.120 I guess it's a mugshot, no doubt. It doesn't look 178 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:54.480 like a high school graduation. 179 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:57.399 Most of them are mugshots. 180 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:01.879 He looks very intense, looks very believable. He's capable of 181 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:03.120 something serious. 182 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:06.440 We'll say, yeah, he has that look right, the sort 183 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:08.480 of head sort of merges with the neck, and he's 184 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:11.159 got these eyes that it looks straight and very cold, 185 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:13.559 jet black eyes. And you know they kind of say, 186 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:15.039 you know, you don't want to mess with him. 187 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.799 No, no, he looks like a serious guy. Now, tell 188 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:21.840 us about give us the background on Vinnie gorgeous, because 189 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:23.480 it's it's sort of a well, it is a very 190 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:26.759 very interesting story his rise. But just give us the 191 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.600 background and who he was at a younger age and 192 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:32.240 how he grew up. Tell us a little bit about 193 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:34.919 Vinnie Gorgeous. How he Vinnie was. 194 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:38.200 Yeah, Vinnie was a guy. You know. I grew up 195 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:41.759 in Westchester County, which is just north of New York City. 196 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:44.000 He didn't grow up in the Bronx, as it turns out, 197 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:46.919 they call him Vinnie from the Bronx. He you know, 198 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:50.600 came from a average sort of Italian American family. His 199 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:55.399 father was a stonecutter, sort of a craftsman as it were. 200 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:58.519 His mother was a house a housewife, and Vinnie, you 201 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:01.080 know it was a knock around kid. He didn't really 202 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:05.360 finish high school when he was supposed to. Instead, he 203 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:08.039 was kind of like a as it was portrayed to me, 204 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:11.519 a Robin and type character, where he'd you know, stick 205 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:14.000 up for kids in the neighborhood who you know, were 206 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:17.080 being put upon. And he did that for one person 207 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:21.840 who happened to be the relative of Dominic Trinchera. Now 208 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:25.679 Dominic Trinchera may not mean much to people now in 209 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:28.879 the Van Schema things, but he was a pretty powerful 210 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.840 captain in the Bonano crime family. When Hinterrera Schinchera Trinchera 211 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.960 let me there we go pronunciations again, found out that 212 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:41.440 Vinnie helped his I guess it was his nephew. He 213 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:43.879 took a liking to him, and the Vinnie sort of 214 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:49.200 was around and Vinnie was became a Dominick's driver, and 215 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:52.399 that was Vinnie's entree to this world, which at the 216 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:57.360 time was a pretty powerful organized crime world. Crinchera was involved, 217 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:00.279 as they tell us, the FETs tell us, a lot 218 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:05.799 of narcotics dealings, and he had a you know, ties 219 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:09.559 to the Montreal faction of the family. And there's this 220 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:14.799 very interesting photo that was taken of a wedding at 221 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:18.679 a swank hotel in Manhattan in which all the Banana 222 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:24.159 mobsters and all the Canadian mobsters were together and Trinchera 223 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:27.600 is there at the table and who is behind Trinchera 224 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:33.240 but Vinnie Basciano as a young sort of starry eyed kid, 225 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:36.799 no tie. He wasn't dressed for a wedding, you know, 226 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:40.240 he just had a a sport jacket on and had 227 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.080 an open, open college shirt. And the FBI was looking 228 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.080 at that picture when they finally got and they said, yeah, 229 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.320 who is this guy. He's a young kid, and he 230 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:50.519 came in a way that would have normally showed disrespect 231 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.399 at this wedding, coming dressed down as you were, and 232 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:58.440 they found out ultimately that he was Domini's Trinchera's driver 233 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:02.879 and that's was Vinnie's entree to the world. And by 234 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:06.639 you know, small steps, you know, he became an associate, 235 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:10.039 he got involved in gambling, and in fact, he remained 236 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:14.080 involved with gambling for most of his life and you know, 237 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:17.240 then became initiated to the family about nineteen ninety one 238 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:21.279 ninety two, and then you know, made his rise pretty 239 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.320 quickly after that because it showed, he showed that he 240 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:27.759 could be relied upon to you know, earn money, certainly 241 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:31.080 through gambling. And there was always the claim that he 242 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:34.840 wasn't the drug dealing. You know, he beat a very 243 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:39.799 big heroin case. So he made his way, he made 244 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:44.440 his bones, as it were, you know, through the gambling operations. 245 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:49.279 He had a reputation for being involved in homicides, and 246 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:54.320 you know, he sort of solidified his credentials as it were, 247 00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:55.559 what was. 248 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:59.519 His legitimate what was his legitimate business face though? 249 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:05.000 What was he what legitimate Yeah, Legitimately he was involved 250 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.799 in a number of things. He had a video store, 251 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:13.000 he had a sandwich store, sort of a deli, He 252 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:19.679 had construction business businesses, and he had a beauty salon 253 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:26.879 which was called Hello Gorgeous, which I learned was taken 254 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:32.039 from a line taken from the movie Married Married to 255 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:35.960 the Mob, and he got the moniker off of that, 256 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:38.600 and also because of his good looks as Vinnie Gorgeous. 257 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:40.879 So that's how it stuck. But he had a lot 258 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:44.320 of legitimate enterprises, and he was pretty much involved in 259 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.240 legitimate businesses up until the very time he got arrested 260 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:49.200 in two thousand and four. 261 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.120 Now you say this, he slowly rose in the Banano 262 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:59.600 family in small increments and doing certain things, and obviously 263 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:05.559 gained the grace of people in power. Tell us some 264 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:07.840 of the things that he would would be required to do. 265 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.200 We're talking about a guy that ends up, you know, 266 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.200 having a violent streak in him. So is there any 267 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.559 hint of anything like that? He said when he was 268 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.759 young and he was sticking up for kids in the neighborhood. 269 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:21.960 But were there any violent streaks around that time? It 270 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.799 also impressed or worried is. 271 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.080 Well ultimate leader? I think he you know, he had 272 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:35.919 the reputation of being involved in a homicide of some 273 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.440 unknown person who was in a gambling dispute, and they're 274 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:40.320 never able to develop. 275 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:44.919 With Lucky Landslots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 276 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:46.759 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. 277 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:48.919 Has anyone seen the bride and broom? 278 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:52.320 Or sorry, we're here. We were getting lucky in the 279 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:53.639 limo and we lost track of time. 280 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:57.200 No lucky land casino with cash prizes that add up 281 00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.480 quicker than he gets registered. 282 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:00.720 In that case, I pronounce. 283 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:05.359 You lucky Lucky land Slots dot com. Daily bonuses are waiting, 284 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:07.960 no purchase necessary. Boyd were prohibited by law eight team 285 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.680 plus terms and conditions of flag see website for details. 286 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.759 Name on it. But supposedly he was involved in a 287 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:16.759 murder that took place in a social club. It was 288 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:20.000 never proven in a court of law, but that kind 289 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:26.640 of made bosses like Messino, Joe Messino a little, well 290 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:29.119 not a little, but a leary of him because he 291 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:33.319 had a reputation for, you know, being having a hot 292 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:38.759 streak and sort of doing things sort of without the 293 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.960 clearance of sanction. And then ultimately, when you know, we 294 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:50.799 got into the situation where before Pisolo, there was another 295 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:54.359 murder that took place, which he ultimately got convicted for 296 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:59.839 in federal court, this guy from Frank and sen Toro, 297 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:04.680 which Messino had not cleared, nobody had cleared, and which 298 00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:07.720 normally would have gotten Vinnie in a lot of trouble, 299 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.319 but Messino sort of just maybe gave him a tongue 300 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.240 lashing and that was the end of it. But Messino 301 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:18.720 was leery of him, so they tell us, but kept 302 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.680 him around. Nonetheless, you know, he didn't kick him out 303 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.039 of the family. I think Messina saw a lot of 304 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.680 use that could be gotten from somebody like Vinnie. He 305 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:34.039 had his gamily enterprises, he had his you know, it's 306 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:39.839 legitimate businesses, and he had a certain sort of charisma 307 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.599 on the street, partly because I think his good looks, 308 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:46.160 but also because he was very self self assured and 309 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:49.839 very assertive, so he would you know, he was a 310 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.000 guy who could take command, and in a family for 311 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.000 a boss who need somebody to take command, that's not 312 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:56.640 a bad thing. 313 00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:01.480 Yeah, he was well liked by people. Was gonna put 314 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:04.039 that into a question that he was He obviously had 315 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.400 this charisma, but he also had to dodge all the 316 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:09.279 bullets that could come his way, so he had to 317 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.000 have that natural leadership and charisma and and really just 318 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.920 get along with people. Basically, what I found interesting too, 319 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.519 is how you portray this guy having again I don't 320 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:20.759 know normal, I don't know what normal is, but as 321 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:23.960 normal a life as say, of a businessman with a 322 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:27.680 with a wife that was quite attractive and outgoing, and 323 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:31.039 so they they partied and associated with people. Tell us 324 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:32.960 a little bit about that he was it seemed to 325 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:34.359 have almost a normal life. 326 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:36.720 So he did. In some ways, he was like Messino 327 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:39.200 because Messino had a normal life. Messino had a lot 328 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:45.440 of legitimate businesses. He had had a wife and a family, 329 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:48.920 two three daughters, and you know, and you know who 330 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:54.640 grew up you know, in a in a nice family setting, 331 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:59.319 you know, church going family, and Basciano's family. You know, 332 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.279 he had four kids, four boys, and he had a wife, 333 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.400 a tractive wife, and she was working as well, and 334 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:09.599 she worked in some of his businesses or had her 335 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.759 own businesses as well, and they did very well for themselves. 336 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:16.519 They moved up to Scarsdale at some point, which is 337 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:20.480 a very sort of nice community to reside, and most 338 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:25.960 people aspire to that. And he did well, he did well, 339 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:28.920 and in some ways, you know, Messino did very well. 340 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:33.720 He didn't do as well as Messino. Materially, Messino hoarded 341 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:35.720 lots and lots of money. I mean, he had millions 342 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.880 upon millions of dollars in cash. But Bashiana did very 343 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:43.200 well for himself. And you know, he had a normal 344 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:47.559 family setting, as it were, although you know, he did 345 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.559 have a girlfriend, and with that girlfriend he had a 346 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:54.119 he had another son, and that sort of created some 347 00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:56.839 interesting issues when he got arrested and had to go 348 00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:57.319 to trial. 349 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.519 Yeah, now, tell us about this Florida aparted me the 350 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:08.480 Blue Thunder, and tell us how some people, well Basiano 351 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:12.640 avoided being prosecutor or pardon me, convicted, but some other 352 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.680 people weren't so lucky. So tell us about this initiative 353 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.960 by the authorities. The Blue Thunder heroine. Tell us about 354 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:19.400 that story. 355 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:26.319 The Blue Thunder case was Vinnie's really first major serious case. Now, 356 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.839 we had an earlier attensive murder case involving a guy 357 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:34.039 in a booky operation, but that case was either so 358 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.200 mishandled or the evidence was so problematic that they pled 359 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.599 it down to a gun case and Vinnie had to 360 00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:41.759 go away for about a year in jail. But the 361 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:44.799 Blue Thunder case was a heroin case. Blue Thunder was 362 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:47.319 a brand of heroin that was in the city streets 363 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.839 in the late nineteen eighties early nineteen nineties, and the 364 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:57.920 Feds ultimately made an indictment. They indicted Vinnie most about 365 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:03.759 the characters running a very large accusing him pretty a 366 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:10.160 large heroin trafficking ring. Vinnie went to trial, as did 367 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:16.079 about the probably about nine others. Vinnie had a very 368 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:19.680 good lawyer. He had Ben Brafman as a lawyer's well 369 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.519 known in the criminal justice field. Here he represented Tom 370 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.160 and E. Strauss Khan later on. He had a very 371 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:31.720 strong lawyer, and the case against Vinnie really was problematic, 372 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.359 and Brafman did a very good job. I thought of 373 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:38.279 exploiting those weaknesses and arguing to the jury the look, 374 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:40.880 they made a mistake with Vinnie. Yes, he's a gambler. 375 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.519 We have tapes saying Vinnie's a gambler, but we don't 376 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:46.039 have any tapes putting him in the middle of heroin 377 00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:54.160 ring or heroin operations. Vinnie got off. Number of others 378 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.039 weren't so lucky, and they got convicted, and they got 379 00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.759 long sentences, and some of them died in jail. But 380 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.000 he got off, and you know, it should have been 381 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:09.160 his wake up call In fact, Rathman told him said, look, Vinnie, 382 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:11.720 you know, Vinnie, you don't know what just happened when 383 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.039 you just got to quit it here. This doesn't happen 384 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:17.680 every day. You know, nine out of ten people in 385 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:21.160 federal court are going to get convicted. Vinnie avoided that. 386 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:27.039 He got acquitted. So Brafman says, look, just forget about 387 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.599 this life. Go away, tell your businesses and do something 388 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:35.799 else and forget about Vinnie gorgeous and Basiano, you know, 389 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:39.680 gave him a knowing smile and said, okay, you know 390 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:44.599 you basically saying to himself, look, I know how to 391 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:46.720 live my life. You know how to do your business. 392 00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:49.880 You know, I'll do my thing my way. And that 393 00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:52.559 was that was that, and that led onto his next 394 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.880 phase of the life, which was, you know, dodging one bullet. 395 00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:58.079 He sort of is going to get ensnared and some 396 00:23:58.160 --> 00:23:59.839 other stuff, which is what happened. 397 00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:01.279 Now. 398 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:04.079 Tell us that this is a good lesson for the 399 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:07.200 FBI and authorities themselves because they do a wire tap 400 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:10.160 and you say, the evidence is I don't know if 401 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.160