1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,640
Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the crime Pager Banni doesn't Podcast.

2
00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,719
I'm here with Nuevo Leone's finest, my friend, Carlos Velasco,

3
00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,000
also known as as Tikium.

4
00:00:10,679 --> 00:00:11,640
Speaker 2: You're quite, You're quite.

5
00:00:12,279 --> 00:00:14,720
Speaker 1: All the plant people I know and like Northern Mexico

6
00:00:14,919 --> 00:00:17,719
know you, by the way. They all have wonderful.

7
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,440
Speaker 3: Oh my god, thank you so much, Thank you to yours.

8
00:00:21,679 --> 00:00:24,199
You're so kind. I mean, I'm just a regular guy

9
00:00:24,199 --> 00:00:26,800
who loves me. He bought any plans and stuff like that,

10
00:00:26,879 --> 00:00:29,679
and thank you for inviting me. I'm so glad to

11
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,600
share a couple of words around here.

12
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,159
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, but you've done a lot.

13
00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,479
Speaker 1: I mean you've done a lot of stuff, especially for

14
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,880
high naturalists. They're getting more people into using high naturalist

15
00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:43,399
and uh, just familiar. You wrote a book. You wrote

16
00:00:43,399 --> 00:00:45,159
a book on the plants. I mean, come on, I

17
00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,560
appreciate you being humble, but you know you've actually done

18
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,399
a lot, a lot for plants in Mexico.

19
00:00:53,759 --> 00:00:56,640
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna drag a little bit. I'm number one

20
00:00:57,119 --> 00:01:00,679
guy in the documenting species in Make to Go, and

21
00:01:00,719 --> 00:01:03,000
I think I'm in the second in Latin America. Stuff

22
00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:06,040
like that. I mean anyway.

23
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, yeah, thank you, thank you for thank you

24
00:01:09,719 --> 00:01:12,560
for being down to do this. So well, I want

25
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,000
to talk about a few things. I mean, I want

26
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,000
to I want to talk about, you know, plants in

27
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,200
the popular consciousness in Mexican culture, at least in northern

28
00:01:21,239 --> 00:01:22,120
Mexico where you are.

29
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:23,200
Speaker 2: You're in mont Aray.

30
00:01:24,159 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 1: But I first off, I wanted to talk about I

31
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,439
guess what's been going on there. There was a big

32
00:01:30,599 --> 00:01:34,439
wash out for Quasteca Canyon that destroyed the road or

33
00:01:34,439 --> 00:01:36,760
made it impassable, I guess. And that's of course like

34
00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,400
the gateway to the northern Sierra Madre that you can

35
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,120
get through through month Ray. It's I mean, it's pretty incredible.

36
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,560
And then I wanted to ask about I guess there's

37
00:01:45,599 --> 00:01:49,000
a population of as Tiki and VALDIZII that might be

38
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:50,840
impacted by some highway project.

39
00:01:51,079 --> 00:01:52,519
Speaker 2: I assume you know about this.

40
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of well, there's a lot of

41
00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,879
things to talk about, but yeah, I mean, if you

42
00:02:00,959 --> 00:02:04,400
have been to northeast Mexico, especially to the city of Monterey,

43
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,079
I mean, what's Teka Canyon is is one of the

44
00:02:07,159 --> 00:02:10,879
coolest places to visit if you like nature, and of

45
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,560
course we are so close that that place is really

46
00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:17,360
close to the city, and many people want to buy

47
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,039
a piece of land in there and start building their

48
00:02:20,039 --> 00:02:24,639
houses in there. But last year, two years ago, we

49
00:02:24,719 --> 00:02:29,280
have this huge tropical storm Alberto, which actually flooded a

50
00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:34,280
great part of the canyon and destroy the main access road,

51
00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,800
which is a good thing because access has been limited

52
00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,000
for a while, giving a chance to the ecosystem to

53
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:45,080
recover a little bit. Actually that well, let me let

54
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,479
me clarify. Was Teka Canyon is just one of the

55
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:52,240
entrances to the Sierra Madra. You can go around by Saltillo,

56
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,240
you can travel south to Santiago, and you can access

57
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,759
some of those areas, but was Decca was a unique entrance.

58
00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,439
So we're getting rumors now that the government is going

59
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,199
to try to rebuild that role, giving like new access

60
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,240
to developers in there, and kind of an eternal struggle

61
00:03:12,319 --> 00:03:14,039
to preserve those areas.

62
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,080
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, let's let's let's talk about this habitat

63
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,319
though for anybody not lucky enough to be familiar with it,

64
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,879
because it's fucking insane. I mean, when you look at

65
00:03:23,879 --> 00:03:27,360
the you look at a topographic map. Anybody who's listening,

66
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,240
good to me a favor to go to Google Maps,

67
00:03:29,479 --> 00:03:32,280
put it on terrain layer and look at a topographical

68
00:03:32,319 --> 00:03:36,080
map of the mountains directly to the southwest of Monterey,

69
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,199
and you'll see it looks like a carpet that's been

70
00:03:40,439 --> 00:03:42,479
you know, like a throw rug that's been pushed up

71
00:03:42,479 --> 00:03:45,719
against a like hardwood, you know, a door jam on

72
00:03:45,719 --> 00:03:48,400
a hardwood floor. Right, all those fold thrust belts. I mean,

73
00:03:48,439 --> 00:03:52,039
it's crazy habitat and it's created some of the right,

74
00:03:52,159 --> 00:03:55,360
I mean within you know, a very short drive of

75
00:03:55,439 --> 00:03:57,520
the city, basically in the city.

76
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:02,199
Speaker 2: So like this is not to raise back back door, right, yep.

77
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I do remember the first time, well one

78
00:04:05,879 --> 00:04:07,680
of the first times you were that you were looking

79
00:04:07,719 --> 00:04:11,159
at the geology there, like the foldings, like the vertical cliffs,

80
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:17,240
the vertical layers of of of those recalled the rocesmentaria

81
00:04:17,319 --> 00:04:19,920
like sedementary rocks. I'm sorry, I'm sorry if my English

82
00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:20,480
is not the best.

83
00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:23,319
Speaker 1: No, it's perfect. We're learning Spanish anyway here. Everybody near,

84
00:04:23,439 --> 00:04:26,839
everybody's listening needs to learn Spanish.

85
00:04:26,879 --> 00:04:30,839
Speaker 3: And yeah, those those canyons, I mean, you have hundreds

86
00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:37,000
of small canyons, dry arid climate and that gives a

87
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,160
very unique opportunity to plant communities to develop in their

88
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,720
own ways. We have a couple of cool endemisms. I mean,

89
00:04:44,759 --> 00:04:47,879
one of the most famous is a gab albopilosa, which

90
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,560
is this gab with white hairs in the tip of

91
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,279
the leaves. But we have other endemics like who's tsia

92
00:04:56,399 --> 00:04:58,959
is not? Whose mean? And thea was the census in

93
00:04:59,079 --> 00:05:04,160
theatas a family. We have the other agavez like a

94
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,120
Gabe Victoria rahina, which has painted leaves with white lions.

95
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,800
I mean, it's an amazing place to go both and

96
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,079
icy in there, and pretty much whatever canyon you enter,

97
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,319
you're gonna find something unique that it probably doesn't grow

98
00:05:19,399 --> 00:05:25,639
in other canyons. We we even recently rediscover a desert

99
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:31,560
firm elects article not tonal and Nina leonina, which hasn't

100
00:05:31,639 --> 00:05:34,759
been seen like in the seventy years time gap.

101
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:36,959
Speaker 2: What's the species? Not Tolina?

102
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,160
Speaker 3: What Leoninaina?

103
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, not Tolina? A dope.

104
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,600
Speaker 1: That's a fucking dope genus a fern with the white

105
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,639
west on the underside exactly.

106
00:05:51,959 --> 00:05:55,959
Speaker 3: So I mean we're talking. I mean people keep saying

107
00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,879
there's nothing to be found there. There's a lot of

108
00:05:58,879 --> 00:06:03,560
things to rediscover or actually found new species. So that's

109
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,120
one of the greatest things here around Monterey for nature

110
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,120
loving people. You can go to the desert, you can

111
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,800
go to temperate forest, you can go to subtropical areas,

112
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,360
you can go to extreme desert. I mean, you won't

113
00:06:16,399 --> 00:06:18,360
let me lie. There's a lot of things to see

114
00:06:18,399 --> 00:06:21,839
around Mondory if you like, if you like plants, right.

115
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,199
Speaker 1: And when you're looking at these rock walls, I mean,

116
00:06:24,199 --> 00:06:27,639
what you're looking at is basically the ancient seafloor from

117
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,319
one hundred and twenty million years ago that's now been

118
00:06:30,519 --> 00:06:32,160
you know, it's laid down horizontal and it has not

119
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,600
been flipped up like an eighty degree angle or in

120
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,079
some cases ninety degree angle.

121
00:06:36,399 --> 00:06:37,639
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's insane.

122
00:06:37,759 --> 00:06:43,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's insane. But you know, sadly many people doesn't

123
00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,040
care about that. I mean, if you if you like

124
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,000
to climb, like rock climbing and stuff like that, that

125
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,360
that's a paradise. And there's there's a lot of people

126
00:06:52,399 --> 00:06:57,120
coming from other countries, but sadly, people from around Monterey

127
00:06:57,439 --> 00:07:00,959
we take for granted those places and we don't really

128
00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:05,680
value the kind of species and all all the ecosystems

129
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,800
that are there, I mean slowly changing for good, but

130
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,680
it's it's take a couple of decades to work on that.

131
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,000
It's it's the kind of things that you really need

132
00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,399
to go out and talk about it. But sometimes you

133
00:07:20,439 --> 00:07:23,839
need somebody from other places to come and talk about it.

134
00:07:24,199 --> 00:07:26,519
And we got that from your last visit a round.

135
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,959
I had to say that, yeah, which is good. It's

136
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,800
good because people listen sometimes to other people's like, oh man,

137
00:07:34,879 --> 00:07:37,839
this guy's from the US and he loves or plays,

138
00:07:37,839 --> 00:07:39,839
so maybe it's had something great to you all to

139
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,680
offer us, and let's go and check it.

140
00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:44,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, I definitely know what. Sometimes

141
00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:47,800
it takes an outsider's eyes to make you feel, you know,

142
00:07:47,879 --> 00:07:51,240
excited about where you live. I've definitely felt that before

143
00:07:51,319 --> 00:07:53,279
in the home place where I live. But you know,

144
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,279
it's yeah, for me, it's crazy because you know, you

145
00:07:56,319 --> 00:07:59,079
have a lot of self Texas plants that we get here,

146
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,240
but South Texas not that diverse, and it's much it's

147
00:08:02,279 --> 00:08:05,199
not much, but it's lower so it's hotter and there's

148
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,399
not much diversity. But what blows my mind is like

149
00:08:07,439 --> 00:08:11,439
you go to Monterey and it's only it's only like oh, God,

150
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,800
what would it be, uh, a thousand feet it's like

151
00:08:14,839 --> 00:08:18,199
three hundred meters four hundred meters of out of elevation,

152
00:08:18,879 --> 00:08:22,720
and the diversity just starts getting wild, man, because it's

153
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,079
a milder climate with that elevation, slightly milder. And then

154
00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,759
also you've got all these little nooks and crannies in

155
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,800
the in the canyons, and so they get more moisture

156
00:08:31,839 --> 00:08:34,279
and they're more shaded and it doesn't get as hot

157
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,519
inside these So there's this little microclimate inside the canyon.

158
00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:40,480
And then you've got the stuff up top on, you know,

159
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,960
and then the stuff growing in the rock walls, like

160
00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:46,480
plants that never grow out of like terrestrial soil. They

161
00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:49,159
all only grow out of crabs and rocks. It's fucking

162
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,279
it's nuts, man, I get it. And it's like what

163
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,159
you're closer to me than San Antonio is.

164
00:08:54,879 --> 00:08:57,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's we're not that far away. But

165
00:08:57,279 --> 00:09:01,240
the diversity that we get here, I mean, let's assume

166
00:09:01,279 --> 00:09:05,039
that you enter was Teka Canyon rarely in the morning.

167
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,240
You will see all the deserti and all the cert

168
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:14,000
species that grows there. You drive like five miles and

169
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:19,320
drive to Lesstanzuela and you completely switch from desert environment

170
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:25,960
to subtropical temperate forests along a creek and you get

171
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,840
like oak forest tis. You get all these species, like

172
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,879
even maple species.

173
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it feels like Alabama. Man, that's what it

174
00:09:34,759 --> 00:09:35,039
felt like.

175
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:35,679
Speaker 2: St.

176
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,399
Speaker 1: Suela felt like Alabama woods, like Alabama, Georgia woods like

177
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,639
southeastern US Woods's crazy.

178
00:09:43,039 --> 00:09:47,000
Speaker 3: And again it's it's just the driving twenty minutes from

179
00:09:47,039 --> 00:09:51,600
from Lawasteka Canyon and I really would like to tell

180
00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,960
people go and take a look on I naturally said

181
00:09:54,080 --> 00:10:01,080
type was Teka Canyon or a mont Right National Park,

182
00:10:01,639 --> 00:10:06,919
and you will see an amazing diversity of plants, especially

183
00:10:06,919 --> 00:10:10,200
with endemisms. There's a lot of endemic plants just growing

184
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,759
in a couple of canyons in there that will blow

185
00:10:13,799 --> 00:10:16,360
your mind. It's just taking a look in there.

186
00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, what what it was cool to me?

187
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,320
Speaker 1: I just saw that betsamalva via Lasia, which I guess

188
00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:25,000
you get in like a small area of Big Band

189
00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,799
National Park, but that's the only spot that occurs in Texas.

190
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,799
It looks like a like a big mexim alva, and

191
00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,960
it's a plant that would be amazing to get into cultivation,

192
00:10:34,879 --> 00:10:37,919
you know in the US because you at least in Texas,

193
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,720
Texas is just Mexico, right, That's like the whole Jerry

194
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,080
Jardowski thing. It's Mega Mexico and but it's you know,

195
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,519
you could tell it probably at one point grew in

196
00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,600
Texas most likely, but then was you know, either snuffed

197
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:56,240
out from climate change or you know, land destruction, or

198
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,840
just because it's it's a little too hot for it.

199
00:10:58,919 --> 00:11:01,080
And you say, the real Grand Valley, right, but like

200
00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:04,080
Austin area would do great, incredible plant too.

201
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,320
Speaker 2: That's a rare one, right, Yeah.

202
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,639
Speaker 3: It's not very often that we see that. It's kind

203
00:11:10,639 --> 00:11:15,360
of restricted to certain areas in the oak pine forests

204
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,000
in Chippea, Ca in wes Venezuela, which are more more

205
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,960
gentle climates for those And to be honest, I think

206
00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:28,000
if you look hard enough, maybe around Texas, you're going

207
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,200
to find a lot of population. I mean, there's all

208
00:11:30,279 --> 00:11:34,480
kinds of discovery while discoveries in terms of species being

209
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:39,000
found where they're not supposed to be, and I'm sure

210
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,399
you can get a couple of surprises still in Texas.

211
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,679
I mean, you guys have done a lot of working

212
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:49,279
documented plant species in southern US, but there's a lot

213
00:11:49,279 --> 00:11:51,360
of things to get to be discovered. I can tell

214
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:51,559
you that.

215
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,720
Speaker 1: The only bummer is that, you know, all of Texas

216
00:11:54,799 --> 00:11:57,960
is basically private land, which that brings up something else

217
00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,639
I want to talk to you about. Was you know,

218
00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,320
max CA has a lot of public land, and that's

219
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,600
mostly due to the Hero system, correct, which was established

220
00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:06,519
after the revolution.

221
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,679
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, well it's not like it's not public land,

222
00:12:12,879 --> 00:12:15,840
but it's kind of a different land the ownership. I mean,

223
00:12:16,039 --> 00:12:20,440
Hilo is still private land, but it's owned by a

224
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,639
local community. I mean many people can be owners of

225
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,639
the same land, which gives all kind of troubles and headaches,

226
00:12:29,399 --> 00:12:32,960
but it's still a good way to work in terms

227
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:39,240
of land management. The downside, the really sad part of

228
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:44,240
that is that many people, especially in big cities, they

229
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:49,600
do not recognize that kind of ownership and hiltarios, I

230
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,440
mean that's what we call the owners of the Hero land.

231
00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:59,279
They often get like and all the world like downgraded,

232
00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:04,000
like like they are the spies, and they told that

233
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,360
there's no way that you can own this beautiful mountain,

234
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,399
and then people tell them this mountain belongs to everybody,

235
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,799
which actually it's privately owned by a community. It's kind

236
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:21,240
of a different way that the people in the city

237
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,200
see this kind of land. And of course the heroes

238
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:29,360
hold a huge amount of species, not just plants, animals, everything.

239
00:13:30,159 --> 00:13:35,320
But sometimes the heroes they don't realize what they actually

240
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,519
are owning or guarding. It's it's a working process around here.

241
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 1: But I mean it does offer some protection at least

242
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,320
in terms of development, right Like, it's not public, but

243
00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:51,600
it's still somewhat protected. It's not just owned by an

244
00:13:51,639 --> 00:13:53,320
individual who can sell it off.

245
00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:56,919
Speaker 3: And yes, exactly exactly, and.

246
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,159
Speaker 1: You can still get onto in most cases, like I

247
00:13:59,159 --> 00:14:01,960
guess you can theory be kicked off, but it doesn't

248
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,360
really happen that much, right Like, no one really cares

249
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,120
because you're not stealing anything or illegally hunting exactly.

250
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,039
Speaker 3: I mean, mostly heroes are like friendly people. I mean

251
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,840
they actually welcome outsiders. I mean, if you ask, hey,

252
00:14:16,919 --> 00:14:20,639
I want to see and climb up this trail, they

253
00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:23,799
probably could even offer you a guide if you if

254
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,200
you pay a fellow over there, they can easily take

255
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,039
you wherever you want to go, and you can ask

256
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:34,759
a lot of questions. So Helos, especially especially we were

257
00:14:34,799 --> 00:14:38,879
recently visiting and working in Laura in Japas, and there's

258
00:14:38,919 --> 00:14:42,759
a lot of heroes there that actually are starting to

259
00:14:42,799 --> 00:14:47,120
make a living out of offering nature guided tours. And

260
00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:51,480
we have this fellow, uh just this week, one fellow

261
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,879
from New York who works with ferns just make a

262
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,320
busy to Laura and he was like blown away by

263
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,919
the fair and diversity in Chiapas. So it's not like

264
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:09,039
it's a bad type of land ownership, but this has

265
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:18,600
like not properly harnessed or I don't know its properly managed.

266
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,919
I mean, there's a lot of misinformation and people all

267
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,879
often take advantage of AHLs, but we can change that.

268
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,000
They're probably getting a better way of living. I don't

269
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,120
know if that makes sense, but.

270
00:15:32,279 --> 00:15:34,960
Speaker 1: No, I mean it's better than with Texas heads where

271
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,600
I mean, you know, it's like it's just it always

272
00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:39,360
blows my mind whenever I go to Mexico, I'm like,

273
00:15:39,399 --> 00:15:42,120
what the fuck The land is in such better shape,

274
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,039
Like there might be more like litter, Like there's more

275
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,759
like litter on the street and garbage like that, but

276
00:15:47,799 --> 00:15:51,039
they're none of the big garbage, which many Americans wouldn't

277
00:15:51,039 --> 00:15:53,039
consider garbage. It's a way of life for them, you know,

278
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,120
like the shopping plazas and the car dealerships and and

279
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,559
all that bullshit, the endless billboards and just this like

280
00:15:59,679 --> 00:16:04,279
cons farm, it's not there and it can't be developed

281
00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:07,120
that easily, you know, it's and so the land is

282
00:16:07,159 --> 00:16:08,919
able to stay in a state. Like I can go

283
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,519
to Mexico just south of the border. You get out

284
00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:14,039
of Rhinosa at ten minutes. It's also hot cartel territory,

285
00:16:14,039 --> 00:16:16,799
but it's okay, we'll talk talk about that. But you

286
00:16:16,799 --> 00:16:19,360
can see these rolling green hills and you're like, this

287
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,600
is what South Texas what looked like, you know, one

288
00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:24,960
hundred years ago or maybe a little bit before that.

289
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,399
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I get it then.

290
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,679
Speaker 3: And you know how strange sound to me that you

291
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,000
from the United States are telling me that you see

292
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,840
in a better shape our place. I mean, it's kind

293
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,960
of strange because you always see the greener grass on

294
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,320
the other side, right, It's it's kind of you guys

295
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,720
are doing so much better over there. And then you

296
00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:51,120
told me you guys are doing so much better over there.

297
00:16:51,159 --> 00:16:54,399
So I guess we're in the middle ground there, and yes,

298
00:16:54,559 --> 00:16:58,799
we do have I always stay people. I mean Monterey

299
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,039
is a city with almost seven million people, and we

300
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,000
still have Black Bear, we have Jawer, we have Beber's,

301
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,519
we have Golden Eagle, we have all these amazing ecosystems

302
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:14,960
and there are seven million people living in the city

303
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,279
doing their business. We do have the same consumer stuff

304
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,680
that you got there, but we somehow have still managed

305
00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:31,359
to preserve our ecosystems in many places, So I guess

306
00:17:31,839 --> 00:17:32,559
that makes sense.

307
00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:36,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the US just really went nuts with

308
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,559
the development, and it's yeah, it's a bum it's a

309
00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:42,000
bummer to see. I mean, just so much has been lost.

310
00:17:42,039 --> 00:17:45,079
And I mean since I've lived in South Texas, I've

311
00:17:45,079 --> 00:17:47,240
seen so much get lost, you know, and like the

312
00:17:47,319 --> 00:17:50,160
five years I've been here, like just so much bulldozing.

313
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's great.

314
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,480
Speaker 1: I mean Mexico is always generally in better shape unless

315
00:17:54,519 --> 00:17:57,279
you go to like Arizona or parts of California, like

316
00:17:57,319 --> 00:18:00,480
the western United States, where there's more public land. You know,

317
00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:03,440
you can still see land that's free of development or

318
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,720
not as developed. But but yeah, man, it's I don't know,

319
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,480
it's yeah, it's going even just a two hour drive

320
00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:12,440
south and wave of Leone's a breath of fresh air

321
00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:17,519
for for me. So, but so what happened with the

322
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,680
West take it? There was this flood. It took everything

323
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,720
out and there it's limited access, which is nice, I'm sure,

324
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:26,240
but can you still get in there? Like you can't

325
00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:29,720
get to that gave Albo Pelosi spot or any of

326
00:18:29,759 --> 00:18:32,839
these other kind of more in the cut locales or what.

327
00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm sorry the Pilosa When you try to

328
00:18:39,279 --> 00:18:44,000
go into that location, you need to drive like a

329
00:18:44,079 --> 00:18:48,720
few kilometers at least ten twenty kilometers inside the Seattle Madre.

330
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,759
And this is tropical storm Alverto just made it now

331
00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:59,440
impossible to drive. So unless you want to walk, like

332
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,519
maybe for half a day or even more, there's no

333
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:06,880
way that you can go to Pilots right now. I'm

334
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,319
not sure. But you may get the chance to go

335
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,000
all the way around from Saltillo and maybe get into

336
00:19:15,079 --> 00:19:19,960
the locality, but that's again a long detour to get there.

337
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,559
Speaker 2: So but you can hoof it, like if you hike in.

338
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,400
Speaker 1: It's still a few it's I mean, it's that's gonna

339
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,559
be like a day or two in and out.

340
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna take It's gonna take you a long

341
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,279
way to get there. I think it's fine. I mean,

342
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,400
you're you're giving just a small break to those eco

343
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,200
systems because people in because people in Montal I really

344
00:19:40,279 --> 00:19:45,200
like going those places, and yes, just give them a

345
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,440
break and then wait until we get yeah road.

346
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:50,400
Speaker 2: That's good.

347
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,079
Speaker 1: It was getting poached too. It was heavily poached, all

348
00:19:53,079 --> 00:19:57,240
the ones that like we're within reach, we're gone, you know, climb,

349
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,759
shimmey up these rocks. But it was But if you

350
00:19:59,799 --> 00:20:01,400
do decide the hike in, it's going to be a

351
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,000
beautiful hike. I'll tell you what, you know, just just

352
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,039
packing off water.

353
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,759
Speaker 2: Uh but yeah, so what so what this?

354
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,319
Speaker 1: I saw a video of this, this flood though, like

355
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,160
destroying like destroying the bridge. It was a really it

356
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,759
was a wonderful event because you guys.

357
00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 3: Were To be honest, I was glad to see those

358
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,640
effects on the infrastructure that they put in there, because

359
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,559
it was wrong. I mean, they wanted to pave all

360
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,519
the way in. I mean, if it's fine if you

361
00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:36,960
get like a their drowth, but they're they're paving, putting

362
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:40,960
even more stuff inside the canyons. There's not the place

363
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:43,680
to have that kind of infrastructure. So I was kind

364
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:44,799
of glad to be honest.

365
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just gonna it just would have

366
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,440
gotten ran through. So okay, But so this is the

367
00:20:50,519 --> 00:20:55,759
Rio Santa Catarina goes through Monterey and what Yeah that

368
00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:57,480
I want to talk about that too, because I know

369
00:20:57,599 --> 00:21:01,039
that's like for like the potential that has for habitat

370
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,720
restoration and for being kind of like a native plant

371
00:21:05,799 --> 00:21:08,400
park inside the city. A lot of people have talked

372
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,119
about there's an organization which you'll have to remind me

373
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,039
the name, that's doing work on that river. It's I mean,

374
00:21:14,079 --> 00:21:16,079
it's a beautiful river. It's got a lot of potential.

375
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,319
What's up with What's up with that?

376
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:17,759
Speaker 2: Right now?

377
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:24,799
Speaker 3: Well, now that we're talking about is actually the outlet

378
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:30,039
of all the drainage inside the Sierra Madre. I mean,

379
00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:33,519
if you get rain in the Sierra Madre, one of

380
00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:35,799
the few places that can come out. I mean all

381
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,200
that water is La was Teka Canyon and was Teka

382
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,559
Canyon is the birthplace of Rio Santa Katarina. Katarina River,

383
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,039
which is the biggest river that crosses the city. We

384
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,680
have a smaller one which is Rial l a Cia,

385
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,559
but Ta Katarina man we have a history with Reason

386
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,720
de Katarina because as I was growing up, like four

387
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:02,960
years ago, we have football courses, we have Olympic swimming

388
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:06,680
pools in there. I'm talking about the river bed inside

389
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,119
the river, and of course there was a lot of

390
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:15,200
water extraction for making soft drinks and beer around here,

391
00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:18,119
so we pulled all of the water and the river

392
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,599
bed was kind of dry, and that gave the impression

393
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,480
that the river was dead. There was no living rivers

394
00:22:25,519 --> 00:22:28,759
in there. So we have a couple of hurricanes that

395
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,160
just blew off everything. But at what point we even

396
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:38,119
have golf courses in there. Imagine a golf course in

397
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:38,960
a river.

398
00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: Bed, a big river inane.

399
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,559
Speaker 3: But then it was insane and you can google it.

400
00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:46,440
I mean, I'm not lying. If you go to Google

401
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,359
and search for golf course reals and the Catarina, you're

402
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,839
going to see a lot of images. But again, nature,

403
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:58,240
as wise as it can be, made the job and

404
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:04,599
send a couple of hurricanes, so it just just just

405
00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:06,279
destroy everything, which I'm glad.

406
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,759
Speaker 1: The good thing is that correctly because they corrected for humans.

407
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:16,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, but humans at that point, I mean,

408
00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:18,279
and I had to say that I recognized one of

409
00:23:18,279 --> 00:23:24,200
the authorities, Federal authorities that actually allowed previous interventions in

410
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,720
there said enough, no more gold courses, no gold cards,

411
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,880
no nothing in the river. So actually the government left

412
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,559
that alone and give it a big break. That was

413
00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:43,200
twenty ten. And after that, well, nature just do the thing.

414
00:23:43,279 --> 00:23:49,519
I mean, Salix was the English name for Salix.

415
00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 2: Willow willow. You what is in Spanish sause sause salix?

416
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:58,359
You see the commons.

417
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Populo Salas they started to grow back down

418
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:10,279
the river and they started to repopulate the whole river

419
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,680
bed all the way to the city. And you can

420
00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:19,359
now see a lot of grown up trees. And believe

421
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,880
it or not, we even have American beaver feeding on

422
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,119
those willows.

423
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,599
Speaker 1: Now, no shit beavers in the city.

424
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,519
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, we haven't not yet documented alive, but we

425
00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:38,640
have seen the you know, they bite the trunks and

426
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,599
they remove the bar very distinct.

427
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

428
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have that kind of sign within the city

429
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,960
and also in real sea. Yeah, so popular of American

430
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,039
beaver are coming back from down the river. Imagine that

431
00:24:54,079 --> 00:24:55,759
in the city of seven million people.

432
00:24:55,839 --> 00:24:58,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy, that's that's so nice. That's like what's

433
00:24:58,279 --> 00:25:01,160
happening to Chicago. You know, the chicag Yago River used

434
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,680
to be fucking nasty, and now now there's I mean

435
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,119
there's yeah, there's beavers on it, there's coyotes, there's giants

436
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,000
snapping turtles. There's a bunch of native plant people have

437
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:13,119
done native plant installations. It's really cool. I didn't know

438
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,880
that about Monterey. That's that's dope. That's really nice to hear.

439
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 3: Man.

440
00:25:16,319 --> 00:25:18,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm speaking which I'm looking.

441
00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 1: At a picture of the golf course from before Hurricane Alex.

442
00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:24,880
It's just fucking obscene. It's like it shouldn't be green

443
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,640
either too. It's it's all green and water. It's absurd.

444
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: Man. Now you can look also for golf cars courses

445
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,359
and you will find one in there. I mean previously hurricanes.

446
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,519
I mean there's some kind of nasty stuff that they

447
00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:47,519
put into the riverbed. M yeah, man, was it was seriable? Okay?

448
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,400
So now now, I mean at some point we have

449
00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:55,240
a bunch of I naturalist records from that place. And

450
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,599
guess what our current government governor, the state governor from

451
00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:06,160
wel Garcia. Uh, he even made a couple of stupid proposals.

452
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,880
One of them was to actually build a highway again

453
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:17,200
on the riverbed, so that spark fucked. So that's that's yeah,

454
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,200
I don't want to say that, but yeah, it's so

455
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:22,279
messed up in many levels, in many ways. But that

456
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,920
you know, that sparked rage. I mean, people were like

457
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,599
outrage because the governor wanted to put a highway in

458
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,920
the middle of the river and he was telling everybody like, oh, yeah,

459
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,559
we're going to solve the traffic problem just adding more

460
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:41,359
highways and it's gonna avoid pollution. So everybody got together

461
00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:45,039
and then it sparked this amazing movement on Rio and Rio,

462
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,519
which is a river within a river that that bring

463
00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:55,640
people together to actually fight back on that type of projects.

464
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,640
And actually I got to say that we want I mean,

465
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,039
and I'm talking as a community because we use every

466
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:09,200
single legal resource that we had to provide the necessary

467
00:27:09,319 --> 00:27:12,960
arguments to the stupid governor that you are so wrong

468
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:18,640
about this. So the federal tories actually had to deny

469
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,079
the pyramids that they were asking for to start working

470
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,759
on that. It's been it's been a battle, but community

471
00:27:27,039 --> 00:27:32,240
is growing strongest in terms of seeing what the river

472
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,200
means and the river is just an ambassador. Now everybody's

473
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,279
paying attention to settle Topo Chico Seach is another small

474
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,519
mountain that we have here. Although the mountains around here

475
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,599
sometimes they're neglected. I mean people people see them every day,

476
00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:53,359
but that don't really appreciate and in terms of the

477
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,960
value that they have for all of us by diversity

478
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,200
of reserves. But there is Ta Katarina has been like

479
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:05,480
the ambassador for nature around the city, which is a

480
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,319
fantastic news to be honest.

481
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's I mean, that's something that should belong

482
00:28:10,279 --> 00:28:13,119
to everybody. And that's like to have a river running

483
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,960
through a city. It's such a I mean, that's like

484
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,400
an in a healthy river for it to be one

485
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:19,640
that people can hang out.

486
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: On and spend time on.

487
00:28:21,319 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that has you know, where people can glimpse

488
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,519
like a shred of the native flora of what it

489
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,759
you know, what it looked like, you know, five hundred

490
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:32,759
years ago. There's such a precious thing to have.

491
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,559
Speaker 3: And Rios and Takatarina is just one of them. We

492
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,480
have real Lacilla RelA Cia is a smaller river that

493
00:28:40,599 --> 00:28:45,039
goes around Cerro Elasia, hence the name. But that river

494
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,839
is much much pristine than Ta Katarina. You have like

495
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:56,160
these amazing Sabinos ball cypress. Mm hm, so you have

496
00:28:56,279 --> 00:29:00,279
like the pristine Riparian forrest that they're supposed to have.

497
00:29:01,559 --> 00:29:05,640
Recentkarina is working on getting back on that. But real aah,

498
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,359
you can actually see those kind of Riparian forests and

499
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,799
you can actually see American beaver more often there. There's

500
00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:19,400
a healthy couple of individuals living in there yet, and

501
00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:22,720
this is the kind of stuff that people are starting

502
00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:28,160
to appreciate a little bit more. But okay, I'm fifty

503
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:32,000
years old. When I was a student back in ninety three,

504
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,119
nobody cared, I mean, nobody was actually trying to understand

505
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,279
to preserve, to care for those natural ecosystems. And now

506
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,960
I'm glad to say that people is caring a little

507
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,799
bit more. And we, and I gotta say, all of

508
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:58,119
us nature lovers, environmentalistal professionals have done a lot of

509
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,680
work and I think it's working. I think it's doing

510
00:30:01,799 --> 00:30:05,880
some some good on education side, you know what I mean.

511
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:06,240
I don't know.

512
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, people people catch on and realize, you know, how

513
00:30:09,559 --> 00:30:11,960
important it is. And also just like when their eyes

514
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,519
open to the native plants into the just the ecosystem

515
00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:17,160
that they live in, you know, that's it's like a

516
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,200
pivotal moment for a lot of people. It's like this

517
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:22,519
world you didn't know was there before and didn't pay

518
00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:25,039
attention to and just kind of overlooked, and now suddenly

519
00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:29,960
it's so exciting and it's everywhere. What what's the There's

520
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,160
a there was an Instagram page I saw dedicated for

521
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,680
what is what's the name of it? There's an Instagram

522
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,200
page that's working with either restoring the river or spreading

523
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:38,480
what is.

524
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,839
Speaker 3: That on Rio and in Rio real?

525
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: Okay, oh yeah, I see it right here.

526
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,359
Speaker 3: It's real and Rio those are And to be honest,

527
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,960
right now that the group of people, it's it's expanding

528
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,720
a little bit more is going just not about nature,

529
00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:02,559
but also trying to pull social issue use, like trying

530
00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:07,240
to embrace like a more social approach, not just talking

531
00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:12,160
about nature and biodiversity. It's trying to get more involved

532
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,039
in social issues that well, there's a lot of messed

533
00:31:16,079 --> 00:31:18,960
up things around here, but nature is kind of a

534
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:25,200
good banner to address like poverty and other like people

535
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:29,759
have with more like economic disadvantages stuff like that. So

536
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,720
it's it's working, and I'm glad to say that this

537
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,119
is a very nice success case of people getting involved

538
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,319
and providing like time on their own, not pay time,

539
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,880
I mean, just being there for others. It's it never

540
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,880
happened before around here in the city of Monterrey.

541
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: Do you do you so?

542
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: Do you think like at least where you are in Moterrey,

543
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,839
is there more of a like is awareness about native plants.

544
00:31:58,839 --> 00:32:02,079
It's interest spreading so that it's I mean beyond just academia,

545
00:32:02,119 --> 00:32:05,240
where there's more people just getting interested in this stuff

546
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:09,039
and understanding it and seeing how rewarding it is to learn.

547
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, the one thing that I can really

548
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,079
tell you because I have witnesses is again, maybe before

549
00:32:18,359 --> 00:32:21,799
like thirty years ago, people had no idea of what

550
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,759
kind of trees to put in their gardens. Everything was

551
00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:32,640
like ficus, you know, this tropical species. Everybody wanted a

552
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,039
ficus because they grew so big. And then we have

553
00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:42,119
a couple of amazing winter storm that throws everything around here,

554
00:32:42,119 --> 00:32:45,799
and suddenly the city went out of any trees. And

555
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,759
by that time I'm talking about the nineties, people started

556
00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:53,559
to look at oaks. So we have an amazing oak

557
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,680
biouniversity here, but we didn't actually realize how oaks were

558
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:02,000
going to bring an open with the door to people

559
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:07,359
paying attention to local species, I mean mesquites, and we

560
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:13,839
such as nobody wanted them because they were indoctrinated to

561
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,200
think about those as ugly plants. Because everybody wanted, okay

562
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:25,279
to have like European stuff style gardens, and nobody wanted thorns,

563
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:31,680
and nobody wanted a local species. But today today we

564
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,359
kind of embraced that, and there's a lot of people

565
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,039
actually asking about native plants and not just trees. Then

566
00:33:41,359 --> 00:33:44,720
we made another turning point because everybody just wanted trees,

567
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:50,319
nobody was thinking about other layers like shrubs and herbs.

568
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:56,240
So right now it's it's far more better in terms

569
00:33:56,279 --> 00:34:03,000
of people actually appreciating different layers in in your gardens,

570
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:06,240
not just big trees, but smaller trees like shrubs, like

571
00:34:07,359 --> 00:34:11,199
pollinator gardiens. Pollinator gardens has been a great success because

572
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,719
everybody wanted them. They don't fully understand the importance, but

573
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:20,119
they wanted it. So I have this witness this. It's

574
00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:24,840
kind of rewarding to see that community is evolving and

575
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,360
it's spreading, not just in terms of plants. You can

576
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,039
even see it on social media on Facebook and stuff

577
00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:35,880
like that. When hiker groups they used to post I

578
00:34:36,039 --> 00:34:38,920
kill this nag, I say, everybody, and now they post

579
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,199
beware of this nag. Just pay attention, don't kill it.

580
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,480
So the narrative within the community is changing and it's happening.

581
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:51,159
So for that, I'm grateful. I can tell that there's

582
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:54,320
been a change. Yeah, to be honest, that's good.

583
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: I remember when I first met you in twenty nineteen

584
00:34:57,159 --> 00:34:59,760
and you were telling me. You were saying, You're like, wow,

585
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,639
it's it's it's so cool to see people that are

586
00:35:02,679 --> 00:35:05,360
excited about plants that aren't, like, you know, in school

587
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,440
for it, you know, and I was I asked it.

588
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,719
I was like why, and you're like, oh, because a

589
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,480
lot of people here just don't care. They don't give

590
00:35:10,519 --> 00:35:14,000
a shit, like most most people just don't which was

591
00:35:14,039 --> 00:35:16,000
crazy to me because I mean you think of Mexico

592
00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:18,639
and you think of all the wild shit. I mean,

593
00:35:18,679 --> 00:35:20,880
you guys just have cooler plants than us than the

594
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,760
United States. I shouldn't say US and whatever, I don't

595
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,960
fucking identify as it whatever, you know what I mean,

596
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,760
But but you guys just have cooler plants. I mean,

597
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,719
there's there's you know, your lower latitude, so it's closer

598
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,119
to the tropics, and it's already that that alone increases

599
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:39,199
the diversity and then the total I mean just amazing

600
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,880
variation and elevation that you have creates. I mean, the

601
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,440
diversity is just phenomenal.

602
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 2: Man, it's nuts. And just to hear that.

603
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,159
Speaker 1: But then when I go down when I go down there,

604
00:35:48,199 --> 00:35:50,599
I still you know, you go to the sokolos and

605
00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:53,360
you see those abolina plants as I call them, or

606
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,159
horticultural atrocities like the ficus and the you know, the

607
00:35:58,199 --> 00:36:02,559
fucking only ender and all this European bullshit, you know,

608
00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:04,559
which is I'm sure it's important where it's native, but

609
00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:07,159
that's this stuff isn't even native anywhere because it's it's

610
00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:10,840
been in cultivation so long, it's been bred for you know,

611
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,639
the cultivars basically, So what do you where do where

612
00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:15,400
do you think that comes? Because I kind of the

613
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,480
same thing here in the borderlands that most people don't.

614
00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:21,559
I mean, it's changing now, but most people they don't

615
00:36:21,559 --> 00:36:25,639
want the Mesquites, they don't want the huisaces. They want

616
00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:29,679
you know, this this Tuscan Tuscany garden stuff. It's like

617
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,880
Spanish colonial ship. What is the cost? And it's just

618
00:36:33,159 --> 00:36:34,800
that indoctrination. Where's it come from?

619
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 3: I mean again, we were a Spanish protectorate colony and

620
00:36:42,559 --> 00:36:46,159
we have a lot of influence. We didn't care enough,

621
00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:50,280
especially in the north. We didn't care enough for or

622
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,360
wrong roots. I mean the northern Mexico arias I mean,

623
00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:00,519
was just overwhelmed by Spanish and we didn't have like

624
00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:06,480
any indigenous community left, which didn't happen in central or

625
00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:12,840
southern Mexico. So we just copied what we have in

626
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,280
the United States at first. And then when we have

627
00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:21,559
seen in European gardens and everything was roses and everything

628
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:27,599
was like bugambillia, we didn't know there was nobody to

629
00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:34,119
actually teach us about that. It wasn't like something that

630
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:38,039
that we can learn from someone. It wasn't until rescing

631
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,719
times like twenty years ago that we started to actually

632
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:46,840
pay attention to or local shows like Anakaita Siso. We're

633
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,800
still not enough brave enough to get to Chaparo Prieto

634
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:59,159
like Malila. My favorite, which actually could be when when

635
00:37:59,199 --> 00:38:01,480
people realized that you can put that as a fance

636
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:03,800
and you don't have to spend like a couple of

637
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,840
thousand pestels in building a wall. You can use a

638
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,239
thorn trot to keep your your property.

639
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: Say they smell so good, man, They smell blackbrost smells

640
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,519
so good when it flowers, though it's intoxicating, man.

641
00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 2: Just like.

642
00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 3: I'm so fortunate that just here in my part, I'm

643
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,840
in the local park that we have we have Evan

644
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,320
knows we have we such as we have mesquites, and

645
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,719
people actually find them appropriate. I mean they never complain

646
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,400
because when they flower, you have all these nice smell

647
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,800
in the air for a couple of weeks. So but

648
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,920
that's that's this low change. And I think we have failed.

649
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:48,000
Maybe biologies or other nature professionals we help failing actually

650
00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:55,000
facilitate the way people see plants. I mean people are

651
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,440
just waiting for us to tell them why is this

652
00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:03,199
planned interest thing? Why should I care about this plant?

653
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,440
I mean many people will actually want to see what's

654
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,760
the benefit of it. So we have failed in terms

655
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,960
of how can we show people that the plane itself

656
00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:19,599
is interesting? I mean, it's it's kind of the things

657
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:21,800
that we should be working now. And there's a lot

658
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:27,000
of people young people hopefully and thankfully like and other

659
00:39:27,639 --> 00:39:30,840
Mansa Linas, and there's a lot of people John botany

660
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,400
is that actually care for this and they are. Let

661
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,960
me make an announcement, there's there's actually this next week

662
00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:42,079
they're organizing a Botany Week and they're going to have

663
00:39:42,159 --> 00:39:47,880
like a lot of things related to botany, like talks, workshops, field.

664
00:39:49,159 --> 00:39:50,639
Speaker 2: That's at the university, right, so.

665
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,559
Speaker 3: It's it's kind of a university thing, but it's done

666
00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:59,679
more independently by Jung students. So that's encouraging.

667
00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder, I wonder.

668
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,559
Speaker 1: I saw Mana Selina's I know, I saw she's doing

669
00:40:04,559 --> 00:40:06,199
a talk on Mega Mexico.

670
00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 3: That Yes, yes, that's one of them. That's one of them.

671
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:10,519
Speaker 2: I could go to that.

672
00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta I'm going to be in North Carolina

673
00:40:12,519 --> 00:40:14,679
for this. I gotta go to this Karnacan. It's like

674
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:19,280
the Carnivorous Plant Conferences. Should be should be an experience.

675
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,679
But uh but yeah, I mean it's it's gonna be cool,

676
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,840
but I'd rather be going to Monta Rays and it's

677
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,400
less flying for me.

678
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 3: Now that you will get you a change. But again,

679
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:31,320
I mean it's the kind of stuff that we didn't

680
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:37,119
have five years ago. I mean, if if we have

681
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:42,440
that like Botany Week, it will be only for academic community.

682
00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:46,719
It was like not an open event for the whole city.

683
00:40:47,199 --> 00:40:51,119
And now at least we have this this alternative. Now

684
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,440
junk people are organizing community events. So that's another good

685
00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,000
step forward changing the way that we saw or native

686
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:01,960
plants and bi university in general.

687
00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember something before, because you've got your book

688
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,519
on the floora of Nuevo Leone on the plants of

689
00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:11,079
Neueva lon it's like a guide, it's a gia. But

690
00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:13,360
there were some I remember, you know, back in the

691
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:17,159
like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, when I was going to Mexico.

692
00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:18,679
I mean, I go to Mexico a lot anyway, but

693
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,360
when I was first starting to go to Mexico, I

694
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,079
remember I'd be looking for books on plants, and it

695
00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:27,480
was always plant that's medicinallys It was always medicinal plants,

696
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,480
Like nay, what's it good for? That kind of stuff,

697
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:32,199
which I mean here in the States, when people ask

698
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,639
me like is it medicinal ornything, I always get annoyed.

699
00:41:34,679 --> 00:41:37,199
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's I mean, it's not anymore. But I

700
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:37,519
used to.

701
00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:39,119
Speaker 1: It used to be like that's not the point, man,

702
00:41:39,159 --> 00:41:42,239
It's it's a living, it's a piece of a living machine.

703
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,960
It's fucking incredible for other reasons, you know, But but

704
00:41:46,039 --> 00:41:48,320
I see it now a lot more. I mean even

705
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,800
just on social media. Yeah, just just random people like

706
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,920
me just being like, eh, I'm not in academia, but

707
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,199
I want to learn about the plants around me.

708
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 3: You know.

709
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,599
Speaker 1: I saw there having like a native cactus thing in

710
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,480
Layon in Guanajuata, my friend Gabrielle and I think the

711
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:07,559
dude that does Chihawa cactus Instagram page and some other people.

712
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:09,639
I forget, I'm gonna it's in Layon. I know that,

713
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,760
and it's like the next week or two. But I mean,

714
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,199
that's fucking that's awesome. It's it's you know, it's not academic.

715
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,039
It's the academics are cool. It's important, the academic element,

716
00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:21,480
but just you mean, yeah, you just need more random

717
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:24,199
We all need more random people into this, you know,

718
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,599
using a nationalist et cetera.

719
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then let me just try to to share

720
00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:34,840
our thoughts here about about why for us is important

721
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,639
to care about traditional uses because it's it's going extinct.

722
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,719
I mean that knowledge, it's it's it is getting lost.

723
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,440
Now you can ask people what what's the use for dioica,

724
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,079
and nobody knows about the properties of that. I mean,

725
00:42:54,679 --> 00:42:59,119
you ask about how to cook juca flowers and nobody

726
00:42:59,159 --> 00:43:04,199
knows the recipe to cook yuga flowers. So for us

727
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,400
in this kind of traditional knowledge that only maybe or

728
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,719
will eat us, or teas or granny's or aunties just

729
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:15,880
used to know. Now it's vanishing. And that's something that

730
00:43:16,159 --> 00:43:18,719
especially hearing the Nord, that we didn't have like this,

731
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,760
these cultural traditions that they're they're more and more rooted

732
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:28,760
in central and southern Mexico. We try to actually say

733
00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:33,840
that kind of knowledge, it's because that's an entry port

734
00:43:34,039 --> 00:43:37,159
for people to care about. Yeah, later on we can

735
00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:39,480
tell them, I mean, this planet doesn't do anything, it's

736
00:43:39,559 --> 00:43:42,360
just there. But look how beautiful it is. But they

737
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,599
are asking about plants now, Okay, when they got we

738
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,280
sparked the interest in Okay, this is this is for cooking.

739
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,079
You can make a soup out of this, and you

740
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:55,519
can make tea out of that. We have a lot

741
00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:59,119
of those stuffs, but people doesn't know it. So when

742
00:43:59,199 --> 00:44:02,239
they started to get interest, then we can talk about

743
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,920
other stuff like, hey, this is an nandemic species. Hey,

744
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,760
this is the only place you can see a maple

745
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,159
in the state, and the other maple populations are up

746
00:44:11,199 --> 00:44:17,239
in Texas or down to right. So it's kind of

747
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,920
trying to balance things in terms of Okay, let's let's

748
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:26,199
not just get rid of the traditional knowledge and and

749
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:27,480
tell people about that.

750
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, about that. You're right, You're right.

751
00:44:31,559 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: I mean all that the ethnal Bandi slant is. I mean,

752
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:38,519
it's it's important as hell, and yeah, it sucks that

753
00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:41,159
it's being lost. And I didn't mean yeah, I'm not

754
00:44:41,159 --> 00:44:43,800
trying to like diminish it for me, it's just when

755
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,920
I'm trying to get people into it, at least, you know,

756
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,880
here in the States, it was always like, oh is

757
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,000
it They'd always be like, is it edible? And I'm like,

758
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:52,760
you know, I don't know which I think it is.

759
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,639
Like now I'm interested in in that that part of

760
00:44:55,679 --> 00:44:58,039
it too, But just back in you know, back when

761
00:44:58,039 --> 00:45:00,599
I was first learning about this, to me, it was

762
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,960
just uninteresting because I've just had this other way of looking.

763
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,199
But no, you're absolutely right. I mean all that stuff

764
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,679
is so important and there's there's knowledge that was gained

765
00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:14,360
over thousands of years that yeah, it's being neglected and ignored,

766
00:45:14,519 --> 00:45:16,639
you know, just like plants themselves.

767
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:19,639
Speaker 3: But I get you. I get you because you have

768
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,039
you have a particular set of eyes. I mean, you're you,

769
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:27,719
you're wondering. I mean, you get this amazing feeling with

770
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,360
you learn about the geology, when you you relate plants

771
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,039
to the soil, when you remain plants to the climate,

772
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:38,960
you when you when you find like evolution convergencies or

773
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:41,239
stuff like that a bit. But that's a particular set

774
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,079
of eyes, and there's a lot of people who doesn't understand,

775
00:45:45,199 --> 00:45:50,199
or even even me, I find it hard to actually

776
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,280
tell that part of the story. I mean, for me,

777
00:45:54,559 --> 00:45:57,000
I get the entry point with maybe Edna Botany, but

778
00:45:57,039 --> 00:45:59,559
I need to learn how to do it in a

779
00:45:59,599 --> 00:46:02,440
different way. Otherwise we're gonna stuck in the same place.

780
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:07,039
So having this kind of diversity in how each of

781
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:13,079
us discovers plants, it's is the kind of things that

782
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:16,159
we need to put together. I mean, how how do

783
00:46:16,199 --> 00:46:19,119
you get to a little children about native plants? How

784
00:46:19,159 --> 00:46:21,559
do I get to my abilita? How do I get

785
00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:22,039
to this.

786
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 2: Hard? They can't be hard, you.

787
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, But again, I mean we need to find

788
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,159
different entry points for people to get into plants.

789
00:46:36,599 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

790
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, if you could get an appolita into appreciating

791
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,960
Chaporo Prieto, you know, that's like you. You've accomplished the feat,

792
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,800
you know, but you could do this. Smell incredible. I

793
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,000
bet you could do it. I bet it's possible, you know.

794
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:54,159
Speaker 3: But I think right now we are training the future

795
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:59,880
Agilitas into liking Chaparo Prieto and liking like we such as.

796
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,639
So the younger woman around us, they're gonna be like

797
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,599
in the near future, the next following years, they're gonna

798
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,239
like them. Yeah. So we're training the next generation of alas.

799
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,440
And by training, I mean we're showing them the beauty

800
00:47:17,519 --> 00:47:21,320
of Ausace, of a Mesquite, of a Chaparo Prieto, and

801
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,079
every single forny plan that we have. I mean they

802
00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:28,719
now will learn to love. So when they grow old

803
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,119
and when they have grandchildren, they will probably be more

804
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:39,199
related to those forni plants that right now it's hard

805
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:43,119
to love, and so we need to think about that

806
00:47:43,199 --> 00:47:44,000
a little bit more.

807
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:44,679
Speaker 2: Yeah.

808
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 1: I love the spiny plants, man. I don't know why

809
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,519
I think. I just I think because I can relate

810
00:47:49,559 --> 00:47:52,440
to them. I'm like spiny on the outside and soft

811
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:53,320
on the inside.

812
00:47:53,679 --> 00:47:55,079
Speaker 3: But I get it.

813
00:47:55,519 --> 00:47:58,079
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's it is a peculiar thing. I

814
00:47:58,079 --> 00:48:01,239
mean you had mentioned, you mentioned that in the south,

815
00:48:01,519 --> 00:48:04,679
like in Wahaka and Puebla, there's this is not as

816
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,400
much of a or it's less of a problem than

817
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,599
it is in the north. Is that you just I mean,

818
00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:14,800
as that just a result of Spanish colonialism or because

819
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:17,480
you know, the indigenous tribes at a harder time in

820
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,400
the normal, what do you think is the cause of it?

821
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, because we lost every single native culture around here.

822
00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:29,480
I mean they were just eradicated. I mean there was

823
00:48:29,639 --> 00:48:32,920
no room leftlo for them here in I'm talking about

824
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:38,039
La I'm talking about Lipas. But as you moved south,

825
00:48:38,519 --> 00:48:41,880
like getting into central Mexico all the way to the

826
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:48,840
Peninsula Jucatan, there's still a lot of indigenous communities, I

827
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:54,039
mean original people from the time of when before the

828
00:48:54,159 --> 00:48:59,639
Spanish came here. So many of those communities, pretty much

829
00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:03,920
all of them there still follow a lot of traditional

830
00:49:04,039 --> 00:49:08,199
ways to see their native their native plants. I mean

831
00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:11,880
they respect them, they use them, they get advantage of them.

832
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,920
They haven't in their gardens, and you don't need to

833
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,519
tell them about the importance I mean they already know,

834
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:24,840
especially in south southern Mexico, when when the indigenous communities

835
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:31,440
did manage to survive the colonial era here in Mexico,

836
00:49:31,519 --> 00:49:35,559
but around here we had to start from from scratch.

837
00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:40,599
I mean, there was no one around to teach us

838
00:49:40,639 --> 00:49:43,119
about that. Yeah, sad story.

839
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:46,559
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean you preserve the people, you preserve

840
00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:50,159
the culture around the plants that they revered, and it

841
00:49:50,199 --> 00:49:52,559
is I mean, I think when you think about it,

842
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:54,239
you know, yeah, like you go to Wahaka, there's a

843
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,159
lot more that there's fucking amazing art with native plants

844
00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:01,119
in it. There's a a lot of a gavet art,

845
00:50:01,159 --> 00:50:06,960
there's a lot of packet serious marginatum marginata's art. There's more,

846
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,320
I mean, just more more cultural reverence for plants in general.

847
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:12,800
But yeah, not so much in the north.

848
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: I've noticed.

849
00:50:14,159 --> 00:50:17,559
Speaker 3: It's there's nothing. I mean, the only that you can

850
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:20,280
find is written history. I mean I have read a

851
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:25,440
couple of historical records from the Spanish conquerors, and they

852
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:32,920
relate how they used to turn letugillas into dust, and

853
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,920
then they ate that dust from Lechugia. There's a couple

854
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:45,960
of really strange tales from how the local communities actually

855
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,320
ate pretty much everything here now. Things that you wouldn't

856
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,679
considered edible, like Lechugia, they used to be edible. I

857
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:59,079
mean they made it somehow edible, and we lost that.

858
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,639
I mean, I wouldn't try to eat a let you

859
00:51:02,679 --> 00:51:08,920
gia powder or something like that. It's because we have

860
00:51:09,159 --> 00:51:12,360
nothing to start from around here.

861
00:51:13,199 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: Oh then, man, that's wild. I didn't know that. Yeah,

862
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,320
I didn't realize it was so much more extensive in

863
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,360
the North. The destruction of those cultures. That's terrible.

864
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 2: Fuck. Yeah.

865
00:51:23,039 --> 00:51:24,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to try to find a couple of

866
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:26,360
those texts and then send it back to you. It's

867
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,519
in Spanish, but you can try that I can find.

868
00:51:28,599 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I give my Spanish is improving a lot anyways,

869
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,440
So that's actually a lot of it due to reading. Yeah,

870
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,119
Adrian and a couple other people got me a book

871
00:51:40,119 --> 00:51:43,119
on rock art of Nuevo Leone and it's in English

872
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:45,320
and Spanish, which is really helpful. I like those side

873
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,840
by side language books, you know, they make it a

874
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:55,199
lot easier. Yeah, I know, but uh, but so well, okay,

875
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,000
I wanted to ask you about some of the plants though, too.

876
00:51:58,039 --> 00:52:02,800
I just saw manahat subspaccata and which is rare, you know,

877
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,039
I didn't I was not expecting to come up on that.

878
00:52:05,079 --> 00:52:06,719
We just stopped at a spot on the side of

879
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,400
the road that looked really interesting. How extensive is that

880
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,880
in Nuevo aon that's mostly just north of this of

881
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:14,079
montere or where is it?

882
00:52:15,519 --> 00:52:19,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's that's the kind of plant that it's pretty

883
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:23,159
much there, but nobody looks at it. I mean, it's

884
00:52:23,199 --> 00:52:27,000
really really overlooked. Nobody. Nobody knows about the existence of

885
00:52:27,039 --> 00:52:32,159
my hots of Spekata or cantarctica. I mean, there are

886
00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:38,199
a lot of plants that people might see it, but

887
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,599
they don't know what they're seeing, and nobody is looking

888
00:52:41,639 --> 00:52:44,079
for them. I mean, that's the kind of plant that

889
00:52:44,159 --> 00:52:49,159
doesn't spark like conversation of interest. I mean, I'm not

890
00:52:49,199 --> 00:52:52,559
sure actually how many records of that I can get

891
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:56,000
on gb for right naturally is there There's just probably

892
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:02,880
a dozen records of those plants. But it's again, there's

893
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,599
so much plant diversity here that there's no way people

894
00:53:06,679 --> 00:53:13,039
can keep track of of those species. I mean, surprisingly,

895
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,280
you go by state records and we have fair understanding

896
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,679
of our plants, but if you go in a narrow.

897
00:53:20,119 --> 00:53:22,519
I mean, you guys have counties in the United we

898
00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:26,960
have municipios, but there's a lot of gaps and information

899
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:32,880
at that level municipio. It's kind of a black hole

900
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,800
of information in many many municipios, especially when you go

901
00:53:37,639 --> 00:53:40,920
farther from the big city. So there's a lot of

902
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:46,639
still need to be explored areas. I mean, that's kind

903
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:49,199
of a fund that we still have. You can feel

904
00:53:49,199 --> 00:53:52,199
like early century explorer in there and try to go

905
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:58,400
find new ways, new trails, new new mountains to climb.

906
00:53:58,519 --> 00:54:01,840
There's a lot of hiking, it's done regularly around so

907
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,039
we're trying to get hikers engaged in document and using

908
00:54:05,079 --> 00:54:08,159
oigh naturally stuff like that. But people, I mean the

909
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,920
many hotel speak at is just one example. There's hundreds

910
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,199
of species that have like one or two records in

911
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,320
their bar rooms and pretty much no records on a naturalists.

912
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,800
So there's there's a lot of room to go actually

913
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:27,360
out and explore. It's the kind of blessing that we

914
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:27,800
have here.

915
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been a big proponent of I too, of

916
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,519
by naturalist is it? I mean when did you start?

917
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:35,760
When did you start doing that? And as it had

918
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:37,920
I mean, do you see more people starting to use

919
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,599
it now and actually going out like just random people

920
00:54:41,679 --> 00:54:44,480
like me, like non academics, just going out to survey

921
00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:47,760
different areas, to check for plants, to explore.

922
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 3: Yes. Yes, to be honest, I feel happy about that

923
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,519
because not just me, but there's a lot of a

924
00:54:56,119 --> 00:55:01,239
bunch of friends that were actually doing like big advertising

925
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:06,559
and using it and making people see how fun it

926
00:55:06,639 --> 00:55:10,760
can be and how useful it can be, and people

927
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,079
that are now taking more time to go outside and

928
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,440
look at nature and using anatotis is just part of that.

929
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:24,599
I'm glad people are actually using it and a lot

930
00:55:24,599 --> 00:55:31,079
of things are coming out of that. So it's kind

931
00:55:31,079 --> 00:55:34,519
of the new tool that we now have to be

932
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:41,400
more busy in nature. It's surprising that people visit nature

933
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:48,000
and just they're just go walking using air headphones to

934
00:55:48,039 --> 00:55:51,400
listen to music and just wo walk, get to a

935
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,039
certain point and then take a picture and then go back.

936
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,800
Now people is paying more attention to birds, those names

937
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:05,079
to lizards, to mushrooms in wildflowers, which are amazing around here.

938
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,639
So it's kind of a good thing to have these

939
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,239
kind of tools. It also I'm glad to say that

940
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,000
it takes away a little bit of the power of

941
00:56:15,039 --> 00:56:19,360
the academic world that they own or pretended to own

942
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,199
the knowledge or the generation of knowledge. And now everybody

943
00:56:23,199 --> 00:56:24,920
can be part of that.

944
00:56:25,199 --> 00:56:29,599
Speaker 1: So it knocks me. It crashes the gates. It knocks

945
00:56:29,639 --> 00:56:32,440
down the gates. That's what I love about Ina.

946
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:33,159
Speaker 3: And I love that.

947
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it should be man.

948
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:39,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think what's what's really cool about it, though,

949
00:56:39,679 --> 00:56:43,920
is the it's all data collection. So you've essentially got this.

950
00:56:44,599 --> 00:56:46,920
The more people you have using ein atrist, the more

951
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,400
people you have acting like an army of data collectors

952
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,880
on the plant life or insect life or BirdLife of

953
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,639
a region, you know, and then making a record of it.

954
00:56:57,639 --> 00:56:59,559
It's not the same as an arbarium record, but it's

955
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,039
it's close, you know, and it documents.

956
00:57:04,519 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 3: I need, I need. I think we need to push

957
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:10,079
it harder, I mean farther away. And you just you

958
00:57:10,119 --> 00:57:13,480
just said it's not the same as an erbarium record.

959
00:57:14,599 --> 00:57:18,639
Why shouldn't be like the same At this point of

960
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:23,800
history in time, we have all these amazing digital technologies

961
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,480
like cell phone cameras, like higher resolution cameras, and all

962
00:57:27,559 --> 00:57:31,360
these are naturally records now allow you to see the

963
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,920
true color of a living flower, or they allowed you

964
00:57:35,039 --> 00:57:40,239
to see the pollinator of an endemic species. Sometimes I

965
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:45,320
think that's more valuable that just a dead piece of

966
00:57:45,519 --> 00:57:50,000
a plant in a drawing. Yeah, I think no one.

967
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,880
No one has the choras to actually, I don't know,

968
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:58,440
maybe a scientific paper to actually propose button is in

969
00:57:58,519 --> 00:58:03,320
the planet. Okay, you should be considering these as important

970
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:08,960
or equally important as an varium specimen. What can happen.

971
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,320
Maybe we've got a solar flare and everything just goes

972
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,920
black and not digital era anymore. Okay, your variums are

973
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,840
gonna stay there. But the other size, we have a

974
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,679
big fire, and the Smithsonian or whatever big institution that

975
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:27,880
holds millions of records, they're gone. I mean, yeah, it's

976
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,639
it's kind of now thinking further and not just the

977
00:58:33,679 --> 00:58:36,199
way that we have been thinking in the past two

978
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,679
hundred five hundred years, just collecting plants, put it in

979
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,039
drawers and nobody goes to see them again in like

980
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:48,199
hundred years. And within naturalism and these digital records, I

981
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:54,159
mean they provide updated information with a lot of other

982
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:59,719
information like diseases, pollinators, past legs, whatever you can find

983
00:58:59,719 --> 00:59:03,199
in these photographs and people are starting, especially researchers, are

984
00:59:03,199 --> 00:59:08,840
starting to pay more attention of those little details. So okay,

985
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,400
let's think about again. It's the same, it's better, or

986
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,840
it's not a new way of collecting uh, specimen vouchers.

987
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:22,480
I know of some papers that have actually cited I

988
00:59:22,679 --> 00:59:27,360
naturally is records by the unique identifier number. It don't

989
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:32,639
record exact name on scientific papers. So steps are being taken.

990
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, I come to think of it,

991
00:59:34,519 --> 00:59:38,800
I have I have seen some people in academia, you know,

992
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,880
kind of shit on I Net, you know, kind of

993
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,920
say like it's not, oh, it's.

994
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: Not it's not the same.

995
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,199
Speaker 1: It's well, you know, I've seen a lot of bat

996
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,760
or varium collections that were kind of indecipherable where it

997
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,639
looked like somebody's you know, mushed the salad onto a

998
00:59:54,679 --> 00:59:57,599
piece of paper and it's you know, I'd rather see,

999
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,880
especially if someone's using like an actual like icon camera

1000
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,480
or something, not just the cell phone camera and it's

1001
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:04,880
all clear and they know what they're doing.

1002
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 2: I'd rather look at photos, to be honest.

1003
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:12,159
Speaker 3: But yeah, and there's good and bad things in both sides.

1004
01:00:12,239 --> 01:00:15,880
I mean, of course there's shitty things on I naturally

1005
01:00:16,039 --> 01:00:20,000
is things that is just trash, to be honest. But

1006
01:00:20,199 --> 01:00:25,039
the same thing happens were varium. I mean there's many

1007
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:28,719
local or barriers that they're not even accessible to public,

1008
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:32,960
and they don't have like digital collections or databases out

1009
01:00:33,039 --> 01:00:38,400
for public consultation. I mean, so where do we stand.

1010
01:00:39,039 --> 01:00:42,440
We need to put together all the pieces so we

1011
01:00:42,559 --> 01:00:45,559
can keep track of or biodiversity. And I'm just not

1012
01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:50,719
talking about plants. I think we need to step out

1013
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:55,079
a little bit out of just one group and we're

1014
01:00:55,079 --> 01:00:58,199
talking about their varians. But we don't have like entomological

1015
01:00:58,199 --> 01:01:04,800
collections here, even if we have them, just in name you,

1016
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,920
you cannot go to an entomological collection here in Northeast Mexico.

1017
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,119
We don't have those. I mean, I mean yeah, I

1018
01:01:13,199 --> 01:01:17,800
mean academia universities they're gonna tell you, of course we have.

1019
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,400
And what are you talking about, your blasphemous person, We

1020
01:01:21,599 --> 01:01:25,639
have entomological collections. Okay, Can I go visit? Oh no, wait,

1021
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:29,639
we're going by and we're trying to put them together.

1022
01:01:29,719 --> 01:01:32,800
We're doing some restoration in a couple of months, maybe

1023
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,519
you can go. So that's that's the reality. I mean,

1024
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,159
try it sometime. I mean they try to visit like

1025
01:01:39,199 --> 01:01:42,719
a local or varium, and it's it's not going to happen.

1026
01:01:43,199 --> 01:01:43,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1027
01:01:44,119 --> 01:01:47,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want to talk is there funding for it,

1028
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:49,840
because that's something that a lot of places in the

1029
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,480
States have been working with, is there's just not funding,

1030
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:55,079
especially for a lot of our you know, like Duke

1031
01:01:55,199 --> 01:01:59,159
University just shut down. They defunded it. The Duke University

1032
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,199
or varium. I mean that which is insane to me,

1033
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,079
is how is that situation in.

1034
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:08,599
Speaker 3: Mexico, it's the same. I mean, nobody cares for barius

1035
01:02:08,639 --> 01:02:13,599
collection except the local botanist. I mean, like Mansalina Gonzalees.

1036
01:02:13,639 --> 01:02:16,639
I mean, they're they're struggling. They're they're working with their

1037
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:20,320
nails to keep those collections alive. I mean it's not

1038
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:26,840
I don't want to criticize the individuals because they're amazing

1039
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:30,440
people doing the best they can with nothing. I mean

1040
01:02:30,519 --> 01:02:34,679
they probably they're provided with a salary, but the institution

1041
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,239
doesn't actually give like Okay, here's your budget for this year.

1042
01:02:39,159 --> 01:02:43,119
I mean, that doesn't happen. I mean even if it's

1043
01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:45,920
like okay, there's one hundred dollars for the whole year,

1044
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,880
they don't have even that, so everything is being done

1045
01:02:50,119 --> 01:02:55,440
on their pretty much their own salaries, and a lot

1046
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:59,800
of hard work from young students like social services, like

1047
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:04,639
professional practices, like maybe guys doing a thesis in there.

1048
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:10,800
But again, I mean those those are like really valuable

1049
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:16,559
collections because they hold historical records nowhere else to be found.

1050
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,079
But the downside is you cannot go in there, or

1051
01:03:20,119 --> 01:03:23,400
it's really hard to get in there and actually pull

1052
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:28,159
the information out to be used. It's it's not easy,

1053
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:33,960
and sometimes it's not done like in like on purpose

1054
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:44,159
to to negate the information is just not possible, believe

1055
01:03:44,159 --> 01:03:48,719
it or not. Some of the vouchers varium specimens here

1056
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:53,440
in the University of Novoleon, they are powdered with the

1057
01:03:53,559 --> 01:03:58,960
de te from the seventies, so really they had no yeah, yeah,

1058
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,960
I mean I saw that with my own eyes. You

1059
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,599
you open a cabinet and you pull out one I

1060
01:04:05,639 --> 01:04:11,239
don't know, Nimphaia water lily ship and it was powdered with.

1061
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:16,119
Speaker 2: So the insect aside.

1062
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,199
Speaker 3: Yes, because they didn't have any other way to protect

1063
01:04:20,199 --> 01:04:26,760
that voucher specimen. So it's a mess, is it? Is it? Anyway?

1064
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: We there's just not climate control a something for the

1065
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:30,840
I mean, how does.

1066
01:04:30,639 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 4: It No, no, no, no, my dear friend sadly to say,

1067
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,880
I mean the facility is there is just like bare

1068
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,679
minimum stuff like four walls, like the cabinets.

1069
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 3: Again, nobody has done a real effort. And I'm talking

1070
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:53,559
about the guys up in the big offices of the university. Okay,

1071
01:04:54,079 --> 01:04:57,199
here a couple of million pestels for you to get

1072
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,559
new place for the arbarier. We're gonna would like this

1073
01:05:00,719 --> 01:05:03,800
big effort. Nobody cares. I mean, all the way up,

1074
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:08,480
I'm talking about master chiefs in the high offices as

1075
01:05:08,639 --> 01:05:09,519
the council over there.

1076
01:05:09,639 --> 01:05:10,679
Speaker 2: That's why.

1077
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's again, that's a benefit of

1078
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:15,920
or what would be a benefit of creating getting more

1079
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:20,280
people ampt and and native plants, getting them more just

1080
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,519
random people into body, creating a culture around it, because

1081
01:05:23,519 --> 01:05:27,000
then there's a larger group demanding that you know, this

1082
01:05:27,119 --> 01:05:29,480
stuff gets funded and that it gets taken care of

1083
01:05:29,519 --> 01:05:30,760
and expressing interest in it.

1084
01:05:32,079 --> 01:05:33,639
Speaker 3: Can I get a little parannoyed here?

1085
01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1086
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 5: Go ahead, Yeah, Okay, So if we if we actually

1087
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:47,000
have like a strong base of knowledge on bidiversity around

1088
01:05:47,039 --> 01:05:54,159
the city, that could be dangerous to land developers and

1089
01:05:54,639 --> 01:05:56,440
big companies.

1090
01:05:56,039 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 3: Around the city. I mean in Montres and industrial city,

1091
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:02,960
it's always run by people with big money, big companies.

1092
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:09,559
There are huge land developers building thousands of houses around here,

1093
01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:14,239
but we have strong knowledge to actually tell the people

1094
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,559
what we are losing or or what we are putting

1095
01:06:18,639 --> 01:06:24,559
in danger. Because of that, I think that's when we

1096
01:06:25,519 --> 01:06:30,360
biologies became or can become like a dangerous person for

1097
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,039
the interest of those big companies. I don't know if

1098
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:36,000
I am expressing myself properly here.

1099
01:06:36,159 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: I think it makes sense, but I think that's totally reasonable.

1100
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 3: Information is power, you know that. I mean that's a saying.

1101
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:48,159
I mean the information That information is power. So whatever holds,

1102
01:06:48,159 --> 01:06:52,800
whoever holds the information about this kind of stuff, has

1103
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:57,519
the power to actually stop those those projects, especially when

1104
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:02,199
when they're done illegally or when then they don't according uh.

1105
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,039
I mean, my friend is the governor, so I need

1106
01:07:05,079 --> 01:07:08,360
to ask my friend to authorize this land development. I

1107
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:10,760
don't care what he needs to do. I just want

1108
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,239
to sell more houses here. So that's where the economic

1109
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:20,039
interested get heats. But by university acknowledge, and I think

1110
01:07:20,519 --> 01:07:27,480
that's why the government stopped putting money into biouniversity research here. Yeah,

1111
01:07:27,519 --> 01:07:28,920
that's my paranoid. Yeah.

1112
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 1: If you're a ship back developer and you want to

1113
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:35,360
put up some sleazy, you know, sprawling housing complex, even

1114
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,199
though it's say in an area where there's not going

1115
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:41,559
to be an aqua for in twenty years, it's a

1116
01:07:41,559 --> 01:07:43,840
lot easier to do that if there's not a lot

1117
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,400
of people that have interest in protecting the land that

1118
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,159
you want to develop, especially if you're going to be

1119
01:07:48,159 --> 01:07:51,199
taking it illegally or you know, using some sort of

1120
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:52,880
nepotism or something to get it.

1121
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:53,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1122
01:07:54,039 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 1: I don't think it's paranoid. I think that makes sense.

1123
01:07:56,159 --> 01:08:00,360
I think that's happened. Yeah, that's.

1124
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:06,199
Speaker 3: Because I'm supposed to be like more objective. But nah,

1125
01:08:06,239 --> 01:08:07,119
it's kind of.

1126
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,559
Speaker 1: We know, human beings, you know, we've seen you can

1127
01:08:10,639 --> 01:08:13,400
see what human beings can do, especially people in power.

1128
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,400
You know, I feel like power is power and wealth

1129
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,640
especially draw the sociopaths out, you know, like it's like

1130
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,760
drawing puss from a boil. It's like drawing puss from a.

1131
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:22,520
Speaker 2: Boil, you know.

1132
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:24,119
Speaker 3: I like that.

1133
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:25,319
Speaker 2: It's gnarly.

1134
01:08:25,399 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, But well, I don't know, there's I mean,

1135
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,319
there's so much I could talk to you about especially

1136
01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:34,239
with with plants. But I guess I can can end

1137
01:08:34,239 --> 01:08:37,000
it there enough to do it again sometime we last time,

1138
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:40,039
I think it was like four years ago, maybe a

1139
01:08:40,079 --> 01:08:42,479
little bit less, but uh, but I do want to

1140
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,720
ask you, what about like the I know you, would

1141
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:49,520
you you help describe astrophytem could put MEDUSI or at

1142
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:51,000
the time it was digital stigma.

1143
01:08:51,159 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 2: Is that if you has anyone gone back to check

1144
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:54,000
on that population lately?

1145
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: What's going on with this very rare cactus that looks

1146
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:57,880
like an octopus?

1147
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:03,520
Speaker 3: To be honest, that's with the drug problems start. I mean,

1148
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,800
the habbitat is located, it's not the safest place around.

1149
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:11,399
I mean, you can go there, you can probably be fine,

1150
01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:14,520
but it's also likely that you find a couple of

1151
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:19,039
big trucks that are gonna pull you out and and

1152
01:09:19,199 --> 01:09:21,760
give you a hard time. I mean, it's not the

1153
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:26,479
base place, but hopefully that will help. So at some

1154
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:32,399
point a few years ago, somebody mentioned narco conservacy, which

1155
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:38,720
meant that territories that were controlled by narcos, nobody go there.

1156
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:44,159
Nobody's gonna poachy little plans like there. So maybe they're

1157
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:50,319
recovering somehow, But I mean we can go and visit

1158
01:09:50,359 --> 01:09:53,680
the other stem species and HINTONI I mean, if you

1159
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,960
want to, you wanna come around, and actually I would

1160
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:00,439
really like to invite I mean your audience. I mean, uh,

1161
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:05,680
visiting Mexico. If you are a nature lover, Mexico can

1162
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:12,720
offer tourists visitors a great deal of a variety. If

1163
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:14,960
you want to see birds, if you want to see butterflies,

1164
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:19,800
you want to find pines, you go to. If you

1165
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:22,760
want to see cacti, you can come here and visit.

1166
01:10:24,239 --> 01:10:28,119
There's a lot of nature spot for visitors and tours.

1167
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 2: Are you still doing tours?

1168
01:10:31,239 --> 01:10:33,399
Speaker 3: I'm not doing them then anymore. But if you want

1169
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:36,880
to come just then you can share my my context

1170
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:38,920
and people.

1171
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 1: Get a hold of you if they want to say

1172
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,479
they want to go down for a weekend and they're

1173
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:43,359
like from South Texas.

1174
01:10:44,039 --> 01:10:49,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, to move around with people, yeah, oh yeah. But

1175
01:10:50,079 --> 01:10:53,600
again it's kind of I don't want to. I don't

1176
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:57,079
want to give the impression that, yes, we do have

1177
01:10:57,159 --> 01:11:02,000
a lot of drug issues and drug narcos around, but

1178
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:06,119
Mexico is still one of one of the best places

1179
01:11:06,399 --> 01:11:10,079
to go out and look for nature. I mean, you

1180
01:11:10,119 --> 01:11:12,199
were there, you were here, like just a couple of

1181
01:11:12,279 --> 01:11:14,680
weeks ago and you went to lest Anezuela. It's just

1182
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:16,520
a twenty minute drive from downtown.

1183
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:17,399
Speaker 2: Yes, you have.

1184
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's people everywhere as families and shit. You know,

1185
01:11:21,119 --> 01:11:24,680
you guys have cartels, we have mass shootings and you know,

1186
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,399
fatties everywhere. So okay, it's a trade off. It's not

1187
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,159
like the US is that's safe either. For fox sake.

1188
01:11:30,199 --> 01:11:31,039
Speaker 2: I mean, let's be honest.

1189
01:11:31,199 --> 01:11:35,279
Speaker 3: I know, and I know, I know, I mean I

1190
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,840
get the chance here. I mean, you have you have

1191
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:42,720
a broad audience, and I'm not inviting you to come

1192
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:45,720
just to Monterrey and I'm in buying you come and

1193
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,319
visit Mexico. I mean, take a look at nature around here.

1194
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:53,960
Go see Wales at California, go busit mushroom fair in.

1195
01:11:55,399 --> 01:11:59,199
There's so so many things that Mexican nature can can

1196
01:11:59,279 --> 01:12:01,960
offer the whole planet. And I'm talking because you have

1197
01:12:02,079 --> 01:12:05,680
international audience. So it's it's the kind of things that

1198
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:08,640
I mean, if you look at Costa Rica, Costa Rica

1199
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:16,399
is doing a great job inviting people to comment see nature. Yeah,

1200
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:21,239
so we have a lot of things that we should

1201
01:12:21,279 --> 01:12:25,239
be especially local communities out of the big cities. They

1202
01:12:25,279 --> 01:12:28,439
should be taking advantages and they're starting to do it.

1203
01:12:29,399 --> 01:12:33,960
So visiting Mexico and local communities is a magnificent experience

1204
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:37,960
that I would like people in your audience to actually

1205
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:41,840
enjoy around here. It's the kind of things that you

1206
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,279
want to share with the world because you're provate and

1207
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:49,359
you want everybody to know. I mean, I want to

1208
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:53,119
that to your own and that's that's a message. If

1209
01:12:53,199 --> 01:12:57,199
you have the chance to visit Mexico's nature, don't miss it.

1210
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:00,560
Speaker 1: But I want to follow up you you if you're

1211
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:05,239
an American, don't act like an American. Just be cognizant

1212
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:07,000
with you know what you know what I mean, if

1213
01:13:07,039 --> 01:13:09,279
you're an American you go to Mexico, just be respectful

1214
01:13:09,399 --> 01:13:10,640
because there's been issues with that.

1215
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:16,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know about the but if you were let

1216
01:13:16,279 --> 01:13:19,680
me tell you that that again. If you are people

1217
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:24,039
who are care for nature, you're probably the right person

1218
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,520
to be around in nature here and you probably be

1219
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:33,880
like respectful. I mean, people who are that's morals, they

1220
01:13:34,079 --> 01:13:38,319
don't care about nature. So I know you're audience.

1221
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:42,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure you raise a good point there. If

1222
01:13:42,239 --> 01:13:44,600
there's someone who's like some Karen is like can I

1223
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,359
have another tack out that's not going to be that's

1224
01:13:48,359 --> 01:13:50,560
probably not going to be someone who's going out to

1225
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:53,239
look at a gave albo pilosa or just.

1226
01:13:53,319 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 2: Enjoy brads or something.

1227
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 1: In my experience, those are not two circles that necessarily

1228
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:00,479
overlap on the vent diagram.

1229
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:03,680
Speaker 3: But I think we can ask your audience how they

1230
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:06,199
feel about that that that that could be a good question.

1231
01:14:06,279 --> 01:14:10,159
How you feel about respecting other people's cultures places if

1232
01:14:10,199 --> 01:14:13,199
you are a naked So let's let's not keep open

1233
01:14:14,079 --> 01:14:15,119
in the in the podcast.

1234
01:14:15,279 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the level of self awareness like when you're

1235
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:18,560
out in public?

1236
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 3: You know?

1237
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1238
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:23,399
Speaker 1: But anyway, man, well thanks a lot for coming on

1239
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:25,079
and doing this. I could talk to you for another

1240
01:14:25,119 --> 01:14:27,159
hour or two, but we'll just save it till next time.

1241
01:14:27,199 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 2: I see you. So appreciate it.

1242
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:34,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, sure, I mean, thank you so much for this,

1243
01:14:34,159 --> 01:14:36,520
the chance to talk to your audience and to talk

1244
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:39,239
to you. It's always fantastic. I really like talking to you, man.

1245
01:14:39,399 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, same, same, Yeah, I consider you a close friend.

1246
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:43,920
What tell everybody your Instagram and how to get a

1247
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:45,359
hold of you and throw your email in there too

1248
01:14:45,359 --> 01:14:47,840
in case they want to hit you. Up for you know, advice,

1249
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,199
somewhere to go see if you've got a weekend free whatever.

1250
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 3: She sure you can. You can catch me on Instagram

1251
01:14:54,039 --> 01:14:56,439
as a steak. You I don't know how to spell

1252
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:59,279
that in English, A C T K. I don't know

1253
01:14:59,279 --> 01:15:01,239
a stecim miss cactus genus.

1254
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:05,520
Speaker 2: Sorry k I U M. Yeah, yeah, there you go.

1255
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for that. Sorry for my bad

1256
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:11,720
spelling on that. And yeah you can. You can lay

1257
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:15,159
down my email in there, and just if anyone is

1258
01:15:15,239 --> 01:15:17,359
interesting in moving around here, just let me know.

1259
01:15:18,159 --> 01:15:21,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, yeah, okay, And I'll uh yeah. If I

1260
01:15:21,119 --> 01:15:22,720
guess people if they want to reach out to you

1261
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,680
for like tours or just to show them around or

1262
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:27,840
something for a weekend, even if they're just coming from

1263
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:29,600
the borderlands or something, they can hit me up and

1264
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,039
I'll i'll uh I'll ask you first before I readily

1265
01:15:33,119 --> 01:15:38,159
give out your your contact info. But anyway, man, all right,

1266
01:15:38,159 --> 01:15:40,039
well Carlos, thanks a lot, brother, and I'll uh yeah,

1267
01:15:40,039 --> 01:15:41,680
I'll probably see you in the next few months or some.

1268
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, see you around, man, It's great to see you.

1269
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:47,159
Speaker 2: To take care.

1270
01:15:47,239 --> 01:15:47,279
Speaker 3: B