WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.359 Alright, we have a very special episode here today. We 2 00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:07.000 have Jay Dyer, who is, if you're not familiar with, 3 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:11.320 is an Orthodox Christian apologist, a student of philosophy, theology, 4 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:14.359 co host the Alex Jones Show as well as the 5 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:17.960 Sam Hyde Show, co creating co host of Hollywood Decoded. 6 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:21.160 He is a general nightmare for every soy boy in 7 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:25.960 the apologetics arena. Jay, really really happy that you've come 8 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:28.879 back on here today. I appreciate it absolutely. 9 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:29.120 Yeah. 10 00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:31.600 We had a great conversation a while back, so I'm 11 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:34.039 always down to come back and chat it up some more. 12 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:37.439 Yeah. Man, it was actually good chat. You actually changed 13 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:41.240 a few of my understandings and views on things. But first, 14 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:45.439 first and foremost, we are talking about end times today 15 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:49.759 and how that we reconcile that with Israel and American 16 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:56.039 evangelicalism and how they view the political Israel and the 17 00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:57.799 state and how it's going to work in the end 18 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.840 times and biblical prophecy. But before get into all that, 19 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:04.640 after watching your videos for quite some time, you're a 20 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:10.920 man of many accents. Can you do an Australian one? Uh? 21 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:12.879 You're Australian, I assume. 22 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:15.439 Right, Yeah mate, Yeah, I'll just talk like this. 23 00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:21.359 Australian I think pretty well, all. 24 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:24.359 Right, it's it's it's not too bad. It's not too bad. 25 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:26.120 That's a little bit. It sounds like a pommy a 26 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:28.760 little bit, a little bit British. The key is is 27 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:31.280 trying to talk out of the nose instead of how 28 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:35.879 are you going? Hang gown your naws? That's it a gown. 29 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:40.719 That's not a bad effort. I love it. That's great, 30 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:45.879 that's good. We can try and do the podcast in 31 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:48.079 Australian accents if you like to make it really entertaining. 32 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.359 Hey mate, what about end times? Right? You should see 33 00:01:51.400 --> 00:02:01.239 you should any christ? Yeah, pre belletial, this becalist, Mike, 34 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:05.959 I'll tell. 35 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:07.400 You what I had to think for a second to 36 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:10.400 run the program in my head of Australian speak. 37 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:14.080 So, dude, it's actually it's hilarious watching other people trying 38 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:16.639 to do it. It's a very very hot it probably 39 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:19.680 a Sithifrican accent is quite odd as well. But if 40 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:22.560 you've ever played that rugby you you'll get to it's 41 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:26.479 very melodic. Yeah, and almost the Scottish just then. 42 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:28.879 Yeah, I'm from the South, so when I hear people 43 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:31.000 trying to do Southern accent in the US. 44 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:32.719 It's pretty. It's pretty noticing. 45 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:36.400 How you doing, baby, Let's talk eschatologia and times? Baby, 46 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:43.120 not bad. I'm trying. I man, I like doing accents. 47 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:44.840 To hey girl, Hey girl, you won't come talk about 48 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.479 and times of me? What you doing to that? Darling? 49 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:51.840 Is it? Man? Is it in the South, especially in 50 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.960 the Bible Belt? Is it all like premium dispensationalism, rap schut? 51 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:56.960 A lot of it? 52 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:00.520 What percentag would you think it is? 53 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:07.240 Probably seventy eighty percent? 54 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:11.400 Wow, Okay, that's big, because you know it's funny. When 55 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.400 I got into my Christian faith, I actually watched a 56 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:18.719 lot of apology at church. Jeff Derbin, James White, and 57 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:20.639 I know it used to be a Calvinist as well, 58 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:27.240 and they were really advocating for this postal eschatology. And 59 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:30.400 I will get you to explain it for the audience 60 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:33.759 to the different viewpoints. But one thing for me was 61 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:38.039 just seeing the historical fulfillment in seventy eight D kind 62 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:43.280 of blew me away and it really impacted my faith 63 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:45.840 in a positive way, you know, just to see God's 64 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:51.919 word come true and how so many Christians believed in 65 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:56.319 this understanding of pre meal, just qush, just let's just 66 00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:00.000 probably start this. Can you explain these with end times 67 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:02.639 and the fascination with the millennial kingdom and what the 68 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:05.159 three positions are for the audience. 69 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:10.919 Yeah, the basics of are premal all mil postmil. Premillennialism 70 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:15.319 says that Jesus returns before the thousand year kingdom or millennium, 71 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:20.040 and usually most of them agree that there's some kind 72 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:24.120 of relationship to the nation state of Israel. Not everybody 73 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:27.639 is a dispensational prim millennialists. There are some just pre 74 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:31.160 millennial minded people. Some of the early first, second, first, 75 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:34.000 second century Church Fathers were just pre millennial but they 76 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:38.759 were not dispensationalists. So the idea is again Jesus comes back, 77 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:43.199 sets up an earthly kingdom, he rules from most people 78 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:48.000 think Jerusalem. There is a time of peace, prosperity, and 79 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:52.800 for them this fulfills all of these global eschatological prophecies 80 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:55.079 in the prophets, you know, in the New Testament and 81 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:55.959 the Book of Revelation. 82 00:04:56.839 --> 00:04:59.560 So that's pre millennialism and then a millennialism. 83 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:03.639 Millennialism is the idea that the kingdom is a spiritual reality, 84 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:07.240 not the premal most necessarily deny its spiritual but the 85 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:11.199 focus of the millennium is a literal, historical a thousand 86 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.240 your kingdom on Earth. Amil says that there is not 87 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:16.959 a literal thousand year kingdom on earth. 88 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:18.360 It's a spiritual. 89 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.000 Reality that began with either the beginning of the world 90 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:23.680 and all of God's people from the very beginning, or 91 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:26.079 it begins with the First Advent of Christ setting up 92 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:27.839 the kingdom which is the Church. 93 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.360 And they don't necessarily. 94 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:36.160 Have a positive view of estatology. Most millennialists think that 95 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:40.279 the world gets kind of progressively worse and then we 96 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:42.920 get the return of Christ and then you just have 97 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:45.360 the end of the world period, right, so that's the 98 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:48.000 final judgment, the great White Throne, you. 99 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.160 Know, it's the end. 100 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.519 And then post Mill says that there is a kingdom 101 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:56.240 that's set up that is the Church. It's synonymous with 102 00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:00.040 the First Advent. It's not a literal thousand years. For 103 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.519 almost every post millennialists there are there have been a 104 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:05.480 few post Mill people who thought that Jesus set it 105 00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:08.279 up and then the kingdom went in with one thousand years. 106 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:09.759 Later, but that's very very few people. 107 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:14.879 But so post Mail typically has a positive appraisal of 108 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:18.920 where history is going, and the idea that a lot 109 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:22.759 of those prophecies are fulfilled, not at an end times 110 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:26.279 literal kingdom, but that the Church grows and grows and grows, 111 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:28.079 kind of like a tree from a seed to a tree, 112 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:30.800 filling the whole earth. The knowledge of the Lord will 113 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.279 cover you know, the earth as the water covers the sea. 114 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:37.600 All the tribe sellings and nations will not necessarily all 115 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:41.079 be converted, but it will be a worldwide. 116 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:42.519 Phenomenon at some point. 117 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:46.480 So the first two tend to be pretty pessimistic in 118 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:49.360 their appraisal of where we are and where history is going, 119 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:54.680 and post millennism tends to be more long sighted in 120 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:57.079 the fact that maybe we've got another ten thousand years. 121 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:01.720 Maybe we got you know, time the world to be. 122 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:06.600 Christianized in some significant sense, and then comes the return 123 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:09.480 of Christ. So that's the basic breakdown of the three positions. 124 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:14.680 And then amongst, as you mentioned, the first position to premillennialism, 125 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:18.319 there is this subset that became very popular in the 126 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:23.959 last one hundred plus years from John Nelson Darby and C. I. Schofield, 127 00:07:25.399 --> 00:07:27.600 the Plymouth Brethren and then the US with a lot 128 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:30.959 of evangelicals what's called dispensationalism, which is the idea that 129 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:34.360 history's chopped up into a bunch of different plan bes 130 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:37.199 that God had for people, and many of them believe 131 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:40.680 in a dual covenant theology that a lot of the 132 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:44.079 promises to the nation state of Israel were not fulfilled 133 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:47.360 and so they still lack fulfillment. But there's this sort 134 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:50.639 of separate thing going on with the Gentile Church, which 135 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:56.680 is a separate covenant from the churches from the Nation 136 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:58.639 State of Israel. So you've got church in Israel, two 137 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:01.839 dual covenants, and then in the future there will be 138 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:04.000 this you know, pre tribulation, rapture, and there will be 139 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:06.040 this series of you know. 140 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:10.120 And just to interject here, one of the reasons why 141 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:14.839 this is an important topic, we actually see it influence 142 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:22.360 certain international foreign policies and the culture of American evangelicalism. 143 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:27.240 This idea that is that of these covenants yet to 144 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:29.480 be fulfilled, and how we interpret that for the nation 145 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:31.399 state of Israel. It almost gets to the point where 146 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:33.679 you've heard those sermons of passes in the States, where 147 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.919 let's bring on the Third Temple, let's demolish the mosque 148 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:39.519 and bring about the end times. There's almost this idea 149 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:42.600 that they can bring about the end times themselves if 150 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:45.879 they get this third temple rebuilt on the Temple Mount 151 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.480 So and there's a huge part of the population that 152 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.639 believes this, almost advocating for starting a new Holy war. 153 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:55.879 So it is actually far more serious even from an 154 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:58.519 unbelievers perspective. And you need to take this serially because 155 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:03.960 so influential. So that's that's certainly something to consider. Can 156 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.720 you briefly explain pan millennialism as well for the audience 157 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:07.519 is a niche option. 158 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:10.799 I don't even know what pan millennialism. 159 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.639 It's means all pan out so flight joke there we 160 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:19.159 are cliche biblical joke for people that get so worried 161 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:20.759 in the different positions. We actually have a lot of 162 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.559 Christian brothers and sisters actually fight over it over end times. 163 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:27.279 I mean we all we always try and reconcile the 164 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:27.879 best we can. 165 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:29.200 But one thing I. 166 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:32.600 Would say is that in the attitude of the Orthodox 167 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:35.960 and the Calvic Church, romancloy Church and Orthodox Church, the 168 00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:39.519 Second Acumenical Council dealt with killism or the idea of 169 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:44.320 literal millennialism, and it forbade it when it composed the 170 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:48.159 addition to the Nicene Creed which says whose kingdom shall 171 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:50.679 have no end? That was actually intended to be added 172 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:53.200 to exclude any form of pre millennialism. 173 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.080 So no orthodox or calog person can. 174 00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:01.519 Interesting. So it is the church historically or postmil or 175 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:02.039 how do they? 176 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:04.840 I would say predominantly amil, But you could make an 177 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:08.919 argument that some people had a positive quasi post mail approach. 178 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:11.360 And it makes sense too because if we go to 179 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:15.399 the dating system, you know, anam Domini the year of 180 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:18.559 our Lord, they must have seen him reigning in some capacity. 181 00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:21.960 You can't make a historical case for pre millennialism of 182 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.519 for the church. And now that you've mentioned that, could 183 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:27.120 you just briefly mentioned that again, which Econmenical council would 184 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:27.440 to create? 185 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:31.000 So the second Acumenical councils kind of Constantinople one in 186 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:34.480 three eighty one. It was presided over by saying mildials 187 00:10:34.519 --> 00:10:38.000 of Antioch and the chief theologians are the Cappadocians. So 188 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.320 Basil Gregor of Nissa and Gregor nazi Azeus are the 189 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:45.639 main theological proponents of that council. This is the one 190 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:47.600 after and I see it it was held actually out 191 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:50.960 of communion with Rome, which is interesting because we typically 192 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:53.240 use that as an argument against papal authority in the 193 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:56.480 early Church, because you have an acumenical council defining the Trinity, 194 00:10:57.080 --> 00:11:00.960 and this is really the essential trinitarian council after and 195 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:03.440 of course Nicea deals with the deed of Christ, and 196 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.440 then constant umber One deals with the triad and it 197 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:10.240 affirms the Cappadocian doctrine of the Trinity, but it also 198 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:13.600 deals with other errors in heresy that were around at 199 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:17.080 that time. It deals with the pollinarianism. I think it's 200 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.840 the first time that that's addressed, and millennialism. 201 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:21.960 What's pollinarianism. 202 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:26.279 Pollinaris is a heretic who denied the full humanity of Christ. 203 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:31.559 He denied Christ having a rational soul, and so the 204 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:34.759 replacement in Christ for the rational soul he thought was 205 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:39.039 the person of the logos, and the rejection of that 206 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:41.279 was on the basis of the fact that if Christ 207 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:44.559 didn't assume all of our nature, including all of its parts, 208 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:48.240 including irrational soul, then he didn't redeem us. He can't 209 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:51.679 redeem a whole man if he doesn't assume that whole 210 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:56.360 man's nature. And I don't mean to start, you know, squabbles. 211 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:59.200 But William Lane Craig, for example, is a modern day 212 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:02.919 self profess a pollinarian. He believes the appollinarian position. So 213 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:06.399 he's an example of somebody who would disagree with the 214 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:07.679 Second Acumenical Council. 215 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:10.000 But that's just a separate issue from escaltal. 216 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:13.559 Just real quick that just on that point, I wouldn't 217 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:15.639 mine since you brought it up, because I saw that 218 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:18.399 he recently, you know, did a debate with Muhammad Hijab 219 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:20.720 and he was actually commenting him on that that the 220 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:23.240 historical Church has got it wrong. According to William Lane 221 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:26.200 Craig with regards to the Trinity, why did he take that? 222 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.799 I assumed many the many the positions with top line 223 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:35.480 apologists aren't necessarily I would they'd say they're adhering to scripture. 224 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:37.720 But you can see that it seems to come from 225 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:41.440 an apologetic standpoint about what's the best argument, what's the 226 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.960 best argument of defense? Why did he take just according 227 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.320 to your opinion, why would he take that position on 228 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:46.879 the Trinity? 229 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:53.320 What Trinity is reflecting from his position on personhood in Christ? 230 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:57.679 So because he thinks that personhood is in some way 231 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:02.480 a reducible to a trade of nature. That's the Apollinarian mistake. 232 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:04.720 He does the same thing in terms of personhood in 233 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:07.960 the Trinity. So he believes in what's called the inseparability 234 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:09.720 of the separability of. 235 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:10.960 Operations in the Trinity. 236 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:13.919 So he has a position that nobody in the verse 237 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.399 thousand years of the Church had that the persons of 238 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:21.600 the Trinity have their own will and energy. All Trinitarian 239 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:24.480 theology has always held that there's one will, one essence, 240 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:28.840 in one operation in the Triad. So he departs from 241 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:34.120 that Trinitarian view. I don't exactly know what he thinks. 242 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:35.919 I'm sure he's got some reason why he thinks that's 243 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:40.639 a solution to problems, but it probably due to challenges 244 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:43.519 from Muslims on what's called the logical problem of the Trinity. 245 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.240 But if you want, if you look up doctor bo Branson, 246 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:50.360 he's an Orthodox professor. That's a good buddy of ours. 247 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:55.240 We've done a couple breakdowns of this position from William 248 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:58.120 Land Craig and doctor Branson just published a book with 249 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:02.320 doctor Craig on four of you on this issue. 250 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:05.399 Okay, great, Well, what I'll do is I might get 251 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:06.840 you to send me that link and I'll leave it 252 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:09.240 in the description below. This is just a quick digression 253 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.320 to the into the trinity, but for those that are 254 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:14.039 interested in this, we'll leave it in the description for 255 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:15.879 you to follow up on that. That would be highly interesting. 256 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:20.080 I'll watch that myself. Okay, so good. 257 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:21.159 He'd be a good if you want to like an 258 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:23.960 Orthodox professor on anytime, Doctor Brands would be really good. 259 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:29.039 Awesome. Yeah, I'll definitely check it out. You my last video, 260 00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:36.240 you messed with my epistemology and no you're with our 261 00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:41.039 last podcasts. Yeah. Man, you had to really reconcile how 262 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:45.000 broken sole the scripture is anyway, So it's something that 263 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:49.120 I've been reconciling over time. Nonetheless, I think yeah, I'll 264 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:52.960 definitely follow up that video as well. Now for clarification, 265 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:57.519 what is your position? Where are you at? Catallogically speaking? 266 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.720 That book that compares the US is called One God. 267 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:06.919 It just came out One God, three Persons, four views. Awesome, okay, 268 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.120 and with Kayline Craig is in there, Doctor bo Branton 269 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:12.840 is in there, and I forget the other guys in there. 270 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:15.320 But we'll leave that. We'll leave that Amazon link as well. 271 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:17.519 I have a. I would say that I tend to 272 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:19.960 favor the post mill position. I think has the most 273 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:21.519 evidence behind it. 274 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.480 But there's also the possibility that you could have a 275 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:32.480 fulfillment of a lot of those positive universalized texts within 276 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:35.039 a short span of time. So a lot of times 277 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.279 postmo people say, well, maybe we've got ten thousand more years. Well, 278 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:41.600 if you look at Roma's eleven, Paul says that when 279 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:44.320 the Jews convert, it'll be like life from the dead, right, 280 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:46.200 And so you get this idea that it might even 281 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:50.559 be possibly a phenomenon that only takes a few years 282 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:53.679 to achieve the fulfillment of a lot of the prophecies 283 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:57.879 about the the widespread acceptance of the Church and the 284 00:15:57.919 --> 00:15:59.559 success of Christianity. 285 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:03.320 Okay, plenty of things that come back to you. I've 286 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:05.080 even got a friend of mine that believes were in 287 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:10.559 the little season where Satan is loosed after the millennial rate, people. 288 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:12.399 Calling in and asking me and I don't even know 289 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:13.120 what I mean, I know what. 290 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:17.519 The tax My mate JT follows JC. I call him 291 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:20.840 the Christian Alex Jones. Okay, he's on Instagram. I've about 292 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:24.039 one hundred thousand followers. Super passionate guy, but loves to 293 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:27.039 try and draw in all the conspiracy theories through a 294 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:30.919 Christian lens. It's a bit of entertainment, but he is convicted. 295 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.200 He does you know, he does love the Lord. But 296 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:37.480 he he's really a strong advocate for it. When we 297 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:39.440 started talking about post mill and he's gone on this 298 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:42.000 year journey and he's really the one that's really pushing 299 00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.559 this narrative. Actually the little season. It's an interesting thing 300 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.639 because he's tied it in with these dates. And I'll 301 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:50.919 explain another time. But one of the reasons I like 302 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:54.120 for anyone, especially in terms of my audience, they like 303 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:58.240 apologetics like yours. One of the reasons post millennialism is 304 00:16:58.519 --> 00:17:02.679 and a millennialism is a strong position to consider, is 305 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.559 because you'll see that there's an atheistic hand grenade that 306 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.920 gets thrown out towards Christians. And Christopher Hitchins did it 307 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.000 on his tour with a lot of pastors and pologists 308 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:17.599 who were pre millennial which is the idea that Matthew 309 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:20.680 twenty four, Luke twenty one, Mark thirteen, the Olive It discourse, 310 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:23.640 the end of the world that was predicted by Jesus 311 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:27.160 never happened. And guess what if it never happened, Jesus 312 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.240 is a false prophet, and the only way for the 313 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:34.359 premal position to get round that is when Jesus says 314 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:37.319 all these things will take place in this generation, have 315 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.680 to change the word from this to that, they corrupt 316 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:47.359 the text. So, in your opinion, if you can explain 317 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.279 how I would love to get into this olive discourse, 318 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.359 and then I'd love to live the israel component and 319 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:57.599 the dual coment theology and all that for the latter 320 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.839 half of this episode, just to get people understanding about 321 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:04.200 end times and why it's important. This hand grenade by 322 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.680 atheist is still being used today. Alex O'Connor, bart and 323 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:10.759 Dan McClellan, all these guys, they're saying that Jesus is 324 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:13.400 a false prophet because of the end of the world 325 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:17.240 did not happen. So without having to go through everything, 326 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.279 can you take me the two main scriptures in that 327 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:23.000 in Matthew twenty four is the idea of the Son 328 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:26.880 of Man coming in the clouds. How do you interpret 329 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.880 that the idea that every man will see it, everyone 330 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:32.079 on the earth will mourn when they see the Sun 331 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:35.079 of Man coming in the clouds. That's taken as a 332 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:42.240 literal prophecy, the perusia. How do you negotiate your way 333 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:45.440 out of the text, as mister doctor Dan McClellan says 334 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:47.920 all the time, Well. 335 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:51.000 We already have in Ezekiel and in Isaiah very similar 336 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.960 prophetic language that when God comes in judgment on Egypt 337 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:58.400 or on battleon that he will come in the clouds, 338 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:02.000 he will, you know, destroy the city the idols. Right, 339 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:04.920 you get this very similar type of prophetic language. That 340 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:08.039 was not talking about a bodily advent. It was simply 341 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:12.119 talking about the destruction of that empire by another force, 342 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.279 another empire. On top of that, I think it's also 343 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:21.279 important to understand that the Orthodox view, as I would argue, 344 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:24.519 and I have, you know, plenty of Orthodox saints and 345 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.039 theologians and elders and bishops that can can back this up. 346 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.640 But we believe in a mirrored fulfillment. So if you 347 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:34.000 look at what the temple symbolized, the temple is a 348 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.359 little miniature of the universe. And you know, Paul makes 349 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:39.480 us very clear and Hebrews seven when he talks about 350 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:42.000 the you know, high priests going into the Holy of Holies, 351 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:46.279 that's signifies Jesus going up into in the ascension. 352 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:47.920 Of the Holy of Holies, which is when he began 353 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:48.759 his reign right. 354 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:50.920 So we have to understand that Psalmon ten, every time 355 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:52.680 it's quoted in New Testamus, sit in my right hand, 356 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.519 I'll make your enemies of footstool is a statement not 357 00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:58.920 about the second Coming, but about the ascension. So the 358 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:02.640 reign of Christ begins when he ascend it. And in 359 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:06.000 that model of the way, Hebrews, in my view, talks 360 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:09.680 about the Temple in its ministry and it's being wiped away. 361 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:14.480 The Orthodox exegesis has typically said, whether it's Chrysostom or 362 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:16.799 any other say in the Church that talks about this 363 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:21.519 specific issue, that's a symbol of a sign of the 364 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:26.519 future rolling up of the heavens and the earth right, 365 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:29.680 which is like a scroll in the conflagration or in 366 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:31.920 the restoration. 367 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:32.480 Right the Escaton. 368 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:35.240 So the very destruction of the Temple in seventy eighty 369 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:41.079 itself points forward to the conflagration and the destruction of 370 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:44.119 the universe in order to restore it to its original 371 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:44.960 Edenic state. 372 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:46.079 That's the Orthodox view. 373 00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:48.720 The other thing I would say is that this mirrored 374 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:51.720 view is also proven by the Maccabees and it's very 375 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.119 helpful for Orthodox because we have first, second, and third 376 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:56.839 Maccabees in our book. 377 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:01.240 Jo quickly, do you consider it? Does the Orthodox consider 378 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:03.319 I know it's a part of the canon, but do 379 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:08.240 they consider it inspired Macabees? Yeah, they do consider it inspired. Okay? Cool? 380 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:11.759 And in many ways for me, I've always especially with Maccabees, 381 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:14.000 even in First Enock, how they refer to the Gost 382 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:18.160 New Testament writers refer to Enoch for the Enoch Maccabee's 383 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:21.279 shows so much interesting fulfillment, even from Daniel, and they 384 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:23.759 provide so much context. I mean, it really does make 385 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:26.480 sense why it's a part of the canon in many ways. 386 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.000 And anyway, continue and it well, it helps with preterism, 387 00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:31.960 is what I'm getting at here, right. And so if 388 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.839 you if you're an Orthodox, if you're an Eastern you know, 389 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:38.359 reader of the texts, and you have the Duro Canon, 390 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:41.039 which is pretty early on in the Eastern Church. You 391 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:45.440 can find i think it's Theditiki as a prederist text. 392 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:47.680 You can find a Hippolytus of Rome. 393 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.039 Why do you say the Dedicay is a prederist text. 394 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:54.000 There's a specific statement about seventy a d And it's 395 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:56.039 either a pistol, Barnabus or dedicate. One of them has 396 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:58.839 a reference to the destruction of the temple as. 397 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:01.720 Interesting that might become a future real Thanks mate, I'll 398 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:02.400 give you credit. 399 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:05.720 Apoliticis of Rome is one of the first to talk 400 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:10.759 about seventy eight being a fulfillment, and we can get 401 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:13.240