Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna pick up where
we left off with the OIG interview with Tovin. Noel. Question,
did any of the supervisors or staff talk with you
about the incident? Noel? No question? Aside from that one
when Lieutenant redacted, Noel, lieutenant asked me question, Okay, So
I just want to again when I ask you these questions,
just make sure we say, like, aside from this or that,
So any other things aside from that instance where they
asked you what happened and you said you don't recall
saying we didn't do the three am and five am rounds,
but you do recall Thomas saying it wasn't her fault. Noel, Yeah. Question,
we didn't do the rounds, Noel, Yeah. Question any other
questions other than that, Noel. They asked me to go
downstairs to the lieutenant's office and then I was just
standing down there. Question, but no one spoke with you, Noel,
No question. Did anyone even ask why you were down
there or how you were? Noel? Oh? The psychologist asked
me how I was? Question? Okay, So, but did she
ask you about the information. Question. No, they didn't ask
anything about that question. It was just about your mental
well being. Noel. Yeah. Question. What time did you stay
at the institution until on August tenth? Noel. I left
at like around eight redacted, A little bit after your shift, Noel. Yeah.
Question You didn't have to stick around for anything else, Noel.
No question. Did you have to sign any paperwork? Noel?
No question. You were left right around the end of
your shift. Did they tell you to leave? Noel, My
shift was over, They said I could go. Question. I
just mean, like, did they instruct you to go home?
You just had a traumatic experience or it's just your
shift was ended and you left. Noel, My shift was ended,
and I asked if I can go now, and they
said go. Question Okay, And who was it that said
you can go? Noel? The lieutenant question? Do you remember
which lieutenant? Noel? Redacted? Question redacted not redacted, Noel, not redacted?
Question okay, redacted. But you didn't have any other conversations
with redacted? Noel? No question. Okay. Did you ever handle
or touch Epstein's paperwork, Epstein's file or paperwork prior to
your departure from mcc on August tenth. Noel, no question.
So in that time from you said that you were
by yourself for twenty minutes, did you ever go near
his file? Noel. I don't even know where the file is,
no question. All right. Do you know if they keep
files on inmates? I think they're called Mike. What is
it two ninety two or something like that, Noel, no question.
Do you know what's kept in a two ninety two Noel,
No question. Like when you feed an inmate or when
you give them well, oh, that's like when you log
into and you're okay. Question is there also a paperwork
that follows that or is it just logging into the
BOP system? Noel, that's logging into the system. Question. Okay,
when you during the time that you were on your
shift at all on August tenth, did you ever log
into that system? Noel? No question. So you never had
to enter then you fed them, or that you went
into she got he gets cut off by Noel, No question,
And you checked on them or anything like that, Noel,
No question. When would that be done? Noel at the
earlier part of the day or when you feed questions
or around that time? Noel? After four question after four am, Noel,
no four pm. Question four pm. So when you say
the earlier part of the day, you mean the later
part of the day, Noel. No, Like when my shift
starts at four, after you feed, that's the time I
see like the law ug in to say, okay, they've
been fed. But I've never really one day, I actually
like was in there because redacted was showing me how
to do it. But I don't necessarily do that. Somebody
else will do it. Question And what was he showing
you how to do Noel? Had to log it? Question?
So what is it that you're supposed to log, you know,
in the system? Noel, I vaguely remember, because I don't
did it. He only showed me that one time. I
think you're supposed to like log off or log if
they showered, log if they're feeding. And I don't know
if you give out stuff, I guess I don't know. Question,
But you don't you're not aware of the actual paper file, Noel.
No question. Where those things are monitored or attract Noel,
no question. And you never did that for any inmate, Noel,
no question. You never filled out paperwork or kept files
for inmates Noel no never question. So obviously you never
handled or touched epstein paperwork Noel, never question or his file.
Did you ever remove any of Epstein's paperwork from his file? Noel,
no question. Did you ever remove or destroy any of
Epstein's paperwork? Noel, no question. Did you ever remove or
destroy that's a repetitive question. Did you ever remove or
destroy any signs related to Epstein, to include signs that
said he was required to have a cellmate? Noel, no question.
Did you access any BOP database such as bop ware
Centry true view after Epstein was discovered on August tenth,
twenty nineteen, Noel, no question. Did you report what was
the last time you reported to work on August tenth? Noel, Yeah. Question.
Were you placed on administrative leave? Noel, Yeah. Question by whom? Noel,
I don't know. I got a phone call saying that
I was placed on administrative leave, but I don't remember
by who. And then I got the letter. Question did
you receive an explanation verbally? Noel, no question. Know. So
the person told you that you were on administrative leave.
That was the extent of the conversation, Noel. And then
I said, so when do I come back? And they
was like you'll get a call like when or if
you're supposed to come back? Question okay, and what did
that administrative leave change to a different type of leave? Noel,
suspended without pay? Question indefinite suspension? Was that? It is
that what you're on right now? Noel? Yeah? Question okay.
Did you communicate with Michael Thomas after Epstein's body was discovered? Noel,
no question. Did you communicate? He gets cut off by Noel.
We communicated never because we was not allowed to communicate.
Question I'm talking about right after the body was discovered.
People respond, and then did you communicate? You talked about
the one instance outside of the elevator Noel, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but no question. But you guys didn't actually converse. You
are just talking to the lieutenant Noel. Right. Question and
at no point, also, did you ever converse Noel, no question.
Did you guys talk somewhere else? Noel? No question? Since then,
like outside of work, Noell, no question. You don't recall
any time. So if he says that you guys talked
it up, you don't remember that. Noel. We never spoke
until we had a union meeting. Question. That's what I'm
asking ever question? Oh, never spoke until the union meeting.
That was just like two weeks ago. But we never
ever spoke. Question. That's kind of like when I say ever,
that means ever anytime from then until this moment, Noel,
From until the union meeting, we never spoke. Question. All right,
So what was discussed at the union meeting? Noel? That
we're going to have an investigation and the union is
there for us, they're supporting us, stuff like that question.
But did you discuss this with Thomas? Noel? What question
the investigation? Noel, no question. Did you ever discuss like
what you were going to tell us Noel, no question,
or what you were going to say during the interview, Noel,
no question. So what did your communication Entel, Noel with Thomas.
It wasn't with Thomas, but he was present. So basically,
the union was saying, you know, they're fighting for us,
they're there for us, they're supporting us. You know. That
was along the line, we're going to have to meet
with you guys to be investigated. Just tell the truth.
That was along the line. Question Okay, Noel, But my
conversation wasn't directly with Thomas. We were both being told. Question, So,
aside from the Union and with that interaction with Thomas,
was anybody else that you discussed the Epstein incident with
since August tenth? Noel no question. No, aside from your attorneys?
Question more or less? Question, is there anything else you
want to add to anything we've talked about being in
And just keep in mind that it's under oath what
you have just said. The Union just said tell the truth.
The way that you get in trouble from this point
forward is basically if you don't tell the truth. You know,
anything that we need to clarify, anything that you can
think about, like maybe I should provide some additional background
information regarding that Foyd. No, I can't think of anything. Question. Okay,
so everything's good because I just want to pass it
over to see if there's anything the agent redacted wants
to ask. Question you mentioned there was an office in
the shoe for the lieutenant Noel, Yeah. Question where is
that located? Noel upstairs outside of the door for ten South.
Question who normally sits there? Noel the lieutenant. Question who
would that be? Noel? Lieutenant redacted? Question? Have you ever
been in that office? Noel? No question? Do you know
anyone else that utilizes that office? Noel, No question, after
the incident happened? Did you after Epstein was removed? Did
you see any lieutenants at the MCC? Noel, did I
see any lieutenants? Question? Yeah? Which lieutenants did you see
at the MCC? Noel? Lieutenant redacted? But who was there? Question? Yeah?
Whoever's present? Did you actually see Noel Lieutenant redacted? Lieutenant redacted?
Lieutenant redacted was getting off, but she came like to
help feed? Question? She came back to help feed? Noel? Yeah.
Question did you have a conversation with her? Noel Lieutenant redacted? Question? Yeah, Noel,
no question, How did you know she came back to
help feed? Noel? I was there? Question? And where was she? Noel?
Where was she when? Question? When you were leaving? Where
was she Noel in the shoe? Question? Okay, she was
in the shoe, physically in the shoe, Noel, helping feed question? Okay?
And what time are we talking about a different investigator
pipes in? This is after the incident question? Oh, okay, investigator,
this is for clarification purposes. Noel, okay, question, I know
you mentioned this before. I'm just going to clarify it.
A couple of questions. Did you ever assist any inmates
with making phone calls? Noel? No question. Do you know
that if an inmate wanted to make a phone call,
how would they go about it? Question or answer? Noel,
they use their pin number. Question is every inmate assign one? Noel? Yeah.
Question can they call anybody they wanted to? Noel, I
don't know. Question is there a restriction on certain people
that they're not allowed to call? Noel, I don't know.
Question Okay, did you know that inmate calls are monitored? Noel? Yeah.
Question do you know the difference between a monitored line
and the legal line? So there was one line that's
used to make legal phone calls that's just for attorneys. Noel? Okay,
So those that line is not monitored Noel. Oh. Question
But the other line is any calls that they make
is recorded? Noel? Okay. But I don't know where, like
which line is which? But I'm aware that there's a
recorded line and the other line, but I don't know
which line is which or where the legal line is. Question. Okay,
you said it was not weird that Epstein was left
alone with his phone has that happened before, Noel, where
an inmate is in the tier using the phone? Yeah?
Question to your recollection, which other inmates were allowed to
make phone calls like that? Noel, I don't have a name.
But it's not because they're allowed to make a phone
call like that. It's only if where their cell is
located the jack's not working. So it's not like we
put inmates in the shower to have private phone calls.
It's just if that's where your cell is at the
jack's not working. They put you because they can't put
you with another it's another inmate's room, and they can't
leave you out in the open, so they place you
over there because the jack is closest to make the
phone call. Question, so you know who could set up
a call like that? Can anyone, any CEO just plug
it in or does it have to be a specific
person who plugs it in? Noel, I don't know if
any CEO could just plug it in. I don't know.
Question you don't know. Would you happen to know if
Epstein had a pac and pen assigned to him? Noel.
I would think he would, but I don't know for sure.
Question do you recall that night when Redacted set up
the phone call, did he tell you who Epstein was
supposed to be speaking to Noel? No question, That's all
I have redacted. And then the two final follow ups
just because we discussed it and I kind of gave
it to you from memory. But this is special Housing
Unit post orders regarding cell rotations and sell searches. It
just quickly says all Shoe staff are expected to conduct
searches of the Special Housing Unit. The morning watch officers
will conduct searches of the common areas and document their
findings in the search section of the True Scrub program.
The day watch officers will conduct a search of every
inmate cell who attends recreation. The evening watch off officer
will conduct a minimum of five self searches during their shift.
And that's what I was just trying to get indiscernible,
just to make sure that that's just if you want
to just initial a date. And also when I do
need to clarify when I said that getting in trouble
thing I was talking about legally when I said about
being truthful, redacted, So these things that you initialed, can
you date them also? Because the first set doesn't have
a date on them. There's no dates next to our
initials on there. Question do you care if it has
a date? I don't want her to have to go
through everything again. She just wrote her initials. Foy. Yeah,
it doesn't matter, especially if we're only meeting one time. Question. Okay, sure,
so just next to where you wrote your initials, do
you mind just dating? I don't know if there's a
reason to provide this here. Just read after that and
she's done. Question were you aware maybe subsequently that redacted
wrote a memo pretty much stating that he was notified.
He was notified at one fifty p that inmate Reyis
was not coming back to MCC and he actually notified
officer redacted, sos redacted an officer redacted that inmate needed
that a cellmate needed to be assigned to Epstein. Noel,
I'm not aware of that. Question. Did you ever get
instructions like that? Noel? No question. When you came on shift,
were there any instructions that came down about going in
and removing inmate reyis belongings from his cell Noel, No question.
If an inmate's removed, let's say someone was going to WAB,
do you know what that is? Noel. Yeah. Question with
all belongings, Noel, belongings. Question if an inmate, let's say,
had to go to court and it was notified that
the inmate is not coming back and was being removed
by WEB, does an officer in the shoe have to
go in and remove all the belongings? Noel. I don't know,
because only know if the regular unit, when they're going WEB,
they bring their stuff. Question, they don't bring their stuff?
They do? Question if they were, but that if that person,
let's say that in May, it wasn't notified that they're
not coming back. Noel. Oh, if it wasn't, then yeah,
the officer would go in and take it out. Question.
And there was no instruction for you guys to go
and remove it Noel, no question. And I may have
just missed this, but do you not recall anyone coming
in and retrieving Ray's belongings? Noel, No question. No. And
would that have happened during your shift before twelve? Noel,
I don't know. Question if it was. You just don't
know anything about Reyes leaving Noel, I don't know. Question. Yeah,
I just gave them to her. Anything else before we
end this so that hopefully this will be a one
and done question. Nothing else that we should talk about
that we missed that we can handle now rather than
having to circle back. Foy, Uh, nothing I can think
of off the top of my head. Question. We're trying
to cover a lot, so Foy. Yeah, I'm at the end.
Question Yep from the union, is there anything that you
can think of that should be discussing Union Rep? If
OIG really wants to know what led up to the
death of mister Epstein, I think that there needs to
be a thorough investigation of the Metropolitan Correctional Center and
its pitfalls. I'll just, you know, kind of leave it
at that, And I'm sure you're going a little bit
of insight into what the MCC is not just staffing,
but conditions for inmates as well. It failed a new employee. Yes,
there are some things that she absolutely should be taking
responsibility for, but what led up to the unfortunate death
of mister Epstein wasn't just August ninth and August tenth
question referring to the fact that she was trained on
people not conducting rounds and counts, Union Rep. It's a
cultural issue at MCC. New York, falsifying of documents to
pass program reviews, Inadequate training of employees. Employees may go
through and I have training, but most of the training
is three weeks or so. Most of the time you'll
find yourself sitting down in the training center, I believe,
because they don't have someone to actually train you, but
they'll tell you sign the training sheets. So if something
like this comes up, it implies that the employee received
the training when actually I was present to receive the training,
but nobody taught me. The same thing is, you know,
for annual refresher training. There's a cultural issue at the MCC.
Is it agency wide? I don't know. I've only been
at MCC New York, but there are some pitfalls. There
have been inmates that prior to mister Epstein and since
mister Epstein, and I believe the inadequate managing of the
build up plays a big role in those desks, assaults
of staff and inmates. And you, guys, I guarantee you've
seen it. I'm sure there's something you've seen that you're like, Wow,
that's a little bit crazy, that just seems very egregious.
It's because it's not being run the correct way. It's
failing staff and inmates every day. Question. Well, thank you
for that. On that note, I know we talked to
you and how you observed other staff members pretty much
conducting the round sheets the way they did, as well
as a supervisor who told you to sign the training
that you never actually attended. Can you think of anything
else that you were asked to do like that from
anyone or observed anyone else as like training or an
experience that was now that you're thinking back on it wrong, Noel. No,
I mean I haven't really been there that long, so
the only thing I could recall was Lieutenant redacted was, oh,
I think when I was on my probation every year,
like I was supposed to get reviewed like every quarter
like to get get off probation. I've only got it
one time. I think it's supposed to be done three times.
I've only got it one time. Question And where you
asked to sign on a quarterly basis that you receive
the evaluation, Noel, I know I signed it one time
that I got it, but I never got the other two.
Question But you didn't actually ask to sign something, Noel. No,
no one asked me to sign anything, question. Is there
an instance that you can think of that you needed
to sign for something that you thought, but oh, I
shouldn't sign for that. I didn't take this training, I
didn't conduct these rounds. Is there something else like that
that you can think of that's happened while you were
at the mcc Noel. I mean, like, for example, like
I said, in IF training, there's a roster with a
whole bunch of stuff that we're signing next to. But
let's like say, Lieutenant so and so was supposed to
teach that class and they didn't show up. But I
already signed that I received it, but I didn't get
the actual training. So I'm signing that I'm present and
I'm here for the training, but I didn't actually get it.
So you're showing up for the training and they're actually
not conducting it, and they're certifying that they're conducting the training. Noel. Yeah,
there were for a couple of training that we didn't
get because there was nobody there to teach the class.
Question and they certified that they actually did it. Noel. Yeah,
I just remember that I was in if they would
tell me stuff, but I never walked. You're supposed to
get a tour of the building. For when when you
sit in training and in the shoe blah blah blah,
you have a visual. They never even did that, like
they would explain like when you say downrange, you have
to just imagine what's downrange because I've never been in
the jail and I didn't know. I'm saying that to say,
like training is not you guys probably look at oh
I signed, or you're saying this training or that she
should know this, but I don't actually necessarily have to
know it because it wasn't like taught and if I
kind of learn as you go along. That's why I said,
like it's wrong, but I tried to mimic or follow
what I see other people do. And yes, I've exercised
poor judgment on things, but sometimes you ask people and
they tell you the wrong thing. That's mcc So even
if I don't know and I call and say, hey,
how do you do this, they'd be like, oh, just
do this question, And what do you do now that
you've experienced this? What do you blame that on? Do
you blame it on like poor management or like lack
of manpower? What are your thoughts on that noel, it's both.
But every time something happens, the officers get in trouble.
And the problem is that it starts from the top.
Because if my supervisor is telling me to falsify documents
and I do it, I'm in trouble. But Lieutenant redacted
got promoted. You understand, Like the problem starts from the
top and it comes all the way down. It's not
being managed correctly, and the manpower is also not there.
Like you can't take somebody and tell them to work
sixteen hours. And remember it's a thing where I'm on probation,
so I can't say no, I'm not working it. So
you asked me to work sixteen hours every day. I'm
a human being, not a robot. I fell asleep plenty
of times going home I come to work. I remember
one time called the lieutenant's office like can't keep my
eyes open because that's just the reality of it. But
the time you go home, it's time for you. Some
people don't even go home. They try to sleep in
the locker room because manpower is not there. And it's
absolutely ridiculous for me. I started in June of twenty eighteen.
The indictment said twenty sixteen. That's not true to December.
That's only six months and I made my pay because
all of that's overtime. Question. Okay, thank you, that's all
great insight. Anything else we want to add, Noel, nothing
from me, Foy. The only thing I can think of,
which you kind of alluded to, is that it feels
like as a new employee, the culture, the friendliness or
lack thereof the fact that in a way your trust
in your colleagues is undermind through through your colleagues, right,
I mean, which makes it a difficult thing. I mean,
if you want to talk about that part of it, right,
because it's all related, it's not just one thing. So
I mean, if you want to speak on it, this
would be the time to say it. Your experience of
what it is a friendly experience. Did you feel supported
by your colleagues, Noel, no foy right. Did you like
it there? Noel, Oh no, absolutely not, absolutely not. I
was actually trying to like from the moment I started there.
I didn't like it there, and I was trying to
get out of there. But I'm not going to quit
a job and go sit at home. So the atmosphere
was like to me, I didn't feel safe because if
you don't have enough people to work the units and
something happens and you had a body alarm, who's responding
if there's nobody there. So that's the problem in itself.
There's been times where you got one officer working two units.
So what if somebody died on the other unit and
the officer is on the other unit. But there's been
and that's all not supposed to happen. But like I said,
it's okay because nobody died, nothing happened. But then something happens,
Then that officer working the two units gets in trouble,
not the lieutenant that said, hey, I'm assigning you to
work these two units. And yes, we know that we're
not supposed to work two units. But again, I don't
feel like I can override my lieutenant or I can
override the senior officer because the instruction that's being passed
on from the top is not correct. But who am
I going to tell? Because everybody in that building knows
from the warden all the way down knows we don't
have enough people. We don't have enough. From day one
I entered that building, that's all I've been hearing. We
don't have enough people. We don't have enough people. People
get hurt because there's not enough staff to respond to
certain things like when I'm out on a unit and
inmates are fighting, like if the inmates really wanted to
take over and harm you, they could have. And then
who's responding fast enough? Because you hit the body alarmed?
Sometimes only three people come questions, So, with all this
in mind, is there anything that you can think of
as a way to rectify the issues? Noel, they need staffing,
and I don't know if people don't say that, they're
like the culture of the MCC, it just needs to
start over, like it needs to be cleaned out and
start over. The people need to follow the rules and
reinforce and show people the correct things. Then maybe maybe
it could get somewhere. But when you have new people
coming in and we're taught bad and again, yes, I
could sit and read an employee handbook. Sometimes you read
stuff in the context like I'm not in a camp
in a high rise, so the context of what you're
reading in an employee book refers to, like, you know,
those types of institutions and not MCC. So sometimes you
try to put it into perspective question. So you keep
saying camp. Do you mean like an FCI or a
penitentiary Noel? Yeah? Question? Or are you talking about Noel yes,
versus high rise building. So it's the procedure are a
little bit different. So that's why I rely on the
people inside to teach me. And you'll always hear that
this being said, there's the BOP way and there's the
MCC way, because at MCC they do it their way. Question. Okay,
good to know Noel. And again because I don't know,
because they probably don't give you the roster. Every single
time that I come to work, I've called to switch
with somebody else because I don't want to work shoe
because I don't know how to work the shoe, and
it's very annoying that you have to keep having to
ask somebody. There's plenty of times that I called across,
like somebody working nine North, like hey, you want to
switch with me? And I switch because on a regular
housing unit, I know what I'm doing in the shoe,
I don't know what I'm doing. And I've even told
usually they put probationary staff to work in the shoe,
but again because of seniority, that's all that they have available,
So that's what I get. Question, okay, so anything on that.
Another investigator asked, do you recall any specific instance of
policy violation by staff or any other actions you can
bring into question about other staff members at MCC any
specific instances, Noel, No question by foy you're talking about
like contraband anything anything overall? Answer, Noel, I mean it
comes in some question. I think what he means more
along the lines though, like supervisor directed you to falsify
a record, Like that's pretty big if they're telling you
sign this because you need to take quarterly shoe training,
anything else like that. Noel. I mean one time I
got a drop note that said and inmate wanted to
rate me, and I forwarded the email to the lieutenant
and I never got a call back, and I called
in and I said, because that inmate is still on
the unit. So if the inmate really wanted to rate me,
then I guess he would have. So I called and
I said, like, did you get my email? And she
was like, yeah, I got it, But that inmate ain't
going to do nothing to you. There are type of
things that happen at MCC. How do you know the
inmate's not going to do anything to me. What you
should have did was remove me from the unit or
remove that inmate, but that wasn't done. Inmates have threatened me,
and they're supposed to remove them out of the building
and they don't. Inmates have threatened me and have sent
them to the shoe and they'll release them and then
they'll come right back to my unit. So again it's like,
who are you telling or complaining to at MCC because
from the top there's no help and I'm literally at
the bottom. I was the last officer at the time. Question, Now,
do you know of indiscernible corrupt officers like bringing in contraband?
Is that like a problem at MCC. No, Well, it's
a problem, but I don't know who brings it in.
I just always wonder as far as smoking, like they're
smoking all in the building. I get headaches daily because
of the smoking. So it comes in some way, But
as far as who or how it comes in, I
don't know. Question, And I would think that it's kind
of easy to identify who is smoking, correct, Noel, You'll
be sitting in your officer station and you smell smoke.
So by the time I get it out. They always
have a watch person. So by the time I feel like, okay,
I smell it, it's coming from here. Let me go
walk the tier this way, you'll be like, oh, she's coming.
So they already done. Question Now what are you smelling?
What kind of smoke? Is it? Marijuana? Noel? K two?
Question K two? Noel K two question? And can you
you know the distinct smell of K two? Noel? Yeah?
Question was this on the shoe? Also? Noel? Yes, question,
it's the entire building. And you know I would welcome,
right if OIG said we want to tour the institution
and judges do, attorneys do, law clerks do right, because
it gives you a little bit. You can actually put
a visual. Beside seeing the photos, you can get a visual.
You actually get to see what it is to be
an employee there or even an inmate there. And the
drug problem is absolutely rampant. The institution has no control
over it, right, So it boils down to that employee saying, Okay,
if you guys don't stop smoking, I'm locking everybody behind
the door because it's making me sick. Or it's that
kind of thing like they're not holding inmates responsible for
incident reports. None of that stuff is happening, and it
just makes it a very bad place to work, and
it makes it a poor place for new employees. And
I say that wholeheartedly understanding that there is some onus
on Miss Noel. There's just some things that as an adult,
you have to say, I take responsibility for. I don't
think she's ever come out of taking that responsibility. But
the mcc new York failed Miss Noel, mister Thomas, and
mister Epstein, regardless of what he was in jail for.
I don't believe anybody deserves a loss of life beyond
the walls of a jail, especially in that manner, right.
And there's just so many things. So when you ask
questions to Miss Noel, such as are there any instances
of falsifying documents? You're not going to say to me.
But I guarantee you that in reviewing rosters and training records,
I'm sure you guys have questionable discrepancies. I'm sure you've
caught rosters not reflecting what video show. I'm sure you've
caught employees on rosters, not on rosters but attending training,
but the rosters say they're on sick leave or annual leave.
I would bet my next low paycheck that the absolute
to what you guys have probably seen or experienced investigating
this whole thing. I would like to hope that the
death of an inmate leads to some change but gets
cut off. Sure, well, part of that has to do
with that we had to wait to interview. But yeah, question,
it just made me think of something. I just want
to make sure, just going back like we're talking about,
to make sure that we got like as truthful as
statement as possible with regard to August ninth, ten PM
count talking about video and things like that. When you're
a member, although the count number was wrong, did you
do the count from the outside grill or did you
actually walk down the range? Noel, I walked down the range,
and I know, like for example, like in redacted statement,
he probably was like, I don't know if she did
the count, or I'm going to say she didn't do
the count because it needed to be done with me,
and I was like sleeping. He was sleeping, so I
don't know if he did the count. Question. I'm just
trying to reconcile the review of the video, Noel. But no,
because I saw a lot of stuff. Even in the indictment,
there's a lot of things in there that's not true.
Like the one thing I know I did do was
a ten o'clock count question, But you just don't know
how they reconcile the fact that the numbers are off Noel,
But the count I did do it? Question? Was that
just again, that's going to be one of those big
things that's like, well, how do we if you're saying
that you did the count and the numbers are wrong,
We're going to have to review the video and Noel
cuts them off. What happened between like the seventy three
and seventy two and the phone call and what was said? Again,
but I did the count question? Okay? Anything else? Well,
I just want to thank you all so very much
for the cooperation and to the union. I want to
kind of apologize for the initial interaction question. I think
now talking with you, I think that you're actually I
was maybe misunderstanding maybe what you were doing. I just
wanted to make sure that we weren't going to be
stopping this interview every time there was a question. But
you were extremely helpful though. Thank you for your participation
and that my Friends. Is the end of the Tovin
Noel interview with the OIG Inspectors. All of the information
that goes with this episode can be found in the
description box.