1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,800 Speaker 1: It was a vision that came to me in twenty 2 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:06,759 twelve to create a podcast network. Twenty twelve, it's twenty 3 00:00:06,839 --> 00:00:09,560 twenty six. Now look how many years it took to 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,560 put together your power of choice. That's what aero dot 5 00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:17,839 net is, a r r OE dot net, nineteen different 6 00:00:17,879 --> 00:00:22,440 podcasts and growing. Like vocal dfrag, we always ask questions, 7 00:00:22,559 --> 00:00:25,399 but do you ever question the answers. This is a 8 00:00:25,399 --> 00:00:29,719 serious question with some really fun results. Vocal dfrag on 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,119 aero dot net a r r o e dot net. 10 00:00:33,439 --> 00:00:39,200 Enjoy your exploration. Hello, and good morning party people. Hi Aero, 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,600 how are you fantastic? Listen to your voice? Man? Man, 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,399 how did you get so in tuned so early on 13 00:00:44,439 --> 00:00:44,960 a Monday? 14 00:00:46,799 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: I get up early. I have a lot of coffee. 15 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: See that's what it's all about. That's the secret, isn't it. 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,439 These people that sleep in man, you know at what 17 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,079 they need to do is wake up at six o'clock 18 00:00:55,119 --> 00:00:56,439 in the morning and grab your book. 19 00:00:57,399 --> 00:00:59,719 Speaker 2: Oh I appreciate that. Yeah, I hope that's right. 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Well, don't you think your book is a great way 21 00:01:02,039 --> 00:01:04,120 to start off your day? Either that or or a 22 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:06,840 moment in your day where you can say I need 23 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,799 to cut myself off from the from the the rigamaru 24 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,280 of the social media as well as the headlines, and 25 00:01:12,359 --> 00:01:15,319 I need to just listen to somebody who has a message, 26 00:01:15,359 --> 00:01:16,159 and that's that's you. 27 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,159 Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah. 28 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 3: I mean it's it's hard to turn off to social 29 00:01:21,879 --> 00:01:24,400 media in the mornings or even in the afternoons. But 30 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,799 I'm thrilled to have written this book and I'm super 31 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,280 excited to talk with you about it. 32 00:01:29,359 --> 00:01:31,239 Speaker 1: Well, I'm excited to find out how you even came 33 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,120 up with this title, because you know the title of 34 00:01:33,159 --> 00:01:36,079 a book, that's where everybody goes to judge the author. 35 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:37,920 Oh and then you got to go through the editor first. 36 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,599 As I go, hope, please, I just need the journey 37 00:01:40,599 --> 00:01:41,400 to get it out there. 38 00:01:42,719 --> 00:01:43,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true. 39 00:01:43,879 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 3: And you know, the pain Brokers was not actually the 40 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,480 original title of this book, as you can well imagine. 41 00:01:49,519 --> 00:01:52,920 So I had actually started off with the Body Shop, 42 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,239 but my publishers were worried that people would get confused, 43 00:01:57,319 --> 00:01:58,959 is it about automobiles? 44 00:01:59,040 --> 00:01:59,959 Speaker 2: Is it about cosmetic? 45 00:02:01,359 --> 00:02:03,599 Speaker 3: So we settled on the pain Brokers, and I think 46 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:04,680 they were absolutely right. 47 00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: I think it conveys the message really well. 48 00:02:06,599 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: See it's moments like that that really does remind me 49 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:11,280 of of kind of like what Mark Twain used to say, 50 00:02:11,319 --> 00:02:12,879 is that that we want to break it down, break 51 00:02:12,879 --> 00:02:14,680 it down, break it down, and simplify everything, that we 52 00:02:14,759 --> 00:02:16,759 might as well just go back to just going uggug 53 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,039 and they would know what we're saying, right. 54 00:02:21,199 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't understand that, Yeah, but you know it does. 55 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,919 It brings it in line with some of these great 56 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,199 works by Patricrad and Keith Empire of Pain and Barry 57 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,080 Meyer Painkiller, which are both about the opioid epidemic. And 58 00:02:35,719 --> 00:02:38,400 this isn't about the opioid epidemic, but it is about 59 00:02:38,439 --> 00:02:40,639 another mass to it, like the opioid epidemic. 60 00:02:41,039 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: So to have that honesty in this world where you're 61 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,800 supposed to be going, oh, I'm going to look this 62 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,360 other way. You did not, Elizabeth, look the other way 63 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,120 on this subject. 64 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 2: No, I looked straight at it. 65 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 3: And I've been writing about this for I mean, as 66 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,159 an academic for twenty some odd years. But as will 67 00:02:58,199 --> 00:03:00,840 not surprise you at all, nobody really cares about what 68 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,680 academics say. So I wanted to talk about this to 69 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,000 a larger audience, and I went back to school and 70 00:03:07,039 --> 00:03:10,039 got an MFA in Narrative nonfiction and wrote this book 71 00:03:10,039 --> 00:03:12,120 along the way so that I could tell these stories 72 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:13,960 in a way that would really resonate with people. 73 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,719 Speaker 1: See I see that as being a soundtrack to your life, 74 00:03:16,759 --> 00:03:19,080 because A you're not getting that time back, and B 75 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,400 when people say, what were you doing, Well, here's what 76 00:03:21,439 --> 00:03:23,199 I was doing and look at the effects. 77 00:03:24,479 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. You know, I think, you know, 78 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,000 scholars play an important role. And the difficulty in this 79 00:03:32,039 --> 00:03:35,080 world that I write in is that the key stakeholders, 80 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,840 the people you're trying to convince to change, all have 81 00:03:37,879 --> 00:03:40,599 a vested interest in the status quo. So if I 82 00:03:40,639 --> 00:03:43,560 really wanted to create some sort of change in this world, 83 00:03:43,639 --> 00:03:46,360 then I needed for the general public to understand why 84 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:47,479 this is so problematic. 85 00:03:47,919 --> 00:03:50,039 Speaker 1: So what was it like for you to fit inside 86 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,080 the bookstore? Because we're talking about a book that's easily 87 00:03:53,159 --> 00:03:55,759 a public service style book, but at the same time 88 00:03:55,879 --> 00:03:58,199 it's a thriller. Where does that end up at Barnes 89 00:03:58,199 --> 00:03:58,680 and Noble? 90 00:04:00,039 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: You know, that's a good question. 91 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:03,199 Speaker 3: I've only seen it at the Barnes and Noble here 92 00:04:03,199 --> 00:04:06,199 in town, and it was, you know, on the front 93 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,520 because I was a local author. But you know, I 94 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,120 think it's it's somewhere in maybe history. It's not quite 95 00:04:13,159 --> 00:04:15,280 current events because it happened a couple of years ago, 96 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,160 although very much of this is happening still today, so 97 00:04:18,199 --> 00:04:22,519 it could be current events. It's also true crime, so 98 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,120 you know, it's it'll be interesting to see where it 99 00:04:25,199 --> 00:04:26,360 lands on the bookshelves. 100 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I mean my experience with that when when 101 00:04:28,519 --> 00:04:30,879 I went in there and found it in my first 102 00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:36,160 book in what's called New Age Religion, I went, what, well, no, no, no, 103 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,439 that's no no, and they wouldn't change it out of there. 104 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,680 I said, oh god, I guess I have to work 105 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:42,720 with this now. 106 00:04:42,959 --> 00:04:46,399 Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting to see 107 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,160 where it lands. It's it's hard for these kinds of 108 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,000 narrative nonfiction books to really find a home because they're 109 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,160 not memoirs, they're not biographies. They're kind of history but 110 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,720 not quite history. And and so it's there, they're a 111 00:04:59,759 --> 00:05:01,920 little bit of misfits in the bookstores. 112 00:05:02,079 --> 00:05:04,319 Speaker 1: This is the style of book my wife wants to 113 00:05:04,319 --> 00:05:06,879 read because she wants to have that experience of, oh 114 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,720 my god, this could really happen. I mean, that's what 115 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,879 she loves in a story like this, because it comes 116 00:05:11,879 --> 00:05:13,720 with history. It gives her a chance to take a 117 00:05:13,759 --> 00:05:16,160 break to go look something up that it might look 118 00:05:16,319 --> 00:05:18,120 just like it or it is just like it. Because 119 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:20,720 I mean, you're talking about Sharon, Barbara and Jerry here, 120 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,879 three women who have been targeted, manipulated and violated. Now 121 00:05:25,879 --> 00:05:28,079 you have the attention of the people. There's your true crime. 122 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,639 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, and this is you know, it's 123 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,959 something this happened in the past. It involved Pelvic mesh 124 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,360 and some cold calls to jar and Sherry, Sharon and 125 00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:42,800 Barb telling them that they had a ticking time bomb 126 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,240 in them that they had to have it taken out immediately. 127 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,000 And you know, the callers had all of the information 128 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,920 that you would normally expect to raise your red flag. 129 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,160 So you know, they're not asking for information about their 130 00:05:57,199 --> 00:05:59,759 birthdays or their implant dates. They already have all that 131 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,360 information available at their fingertips through a data breach in India, 132 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,199 and so it sounded very legitimate. 133 00:06:06,759 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: You know we're talking about You woke me up in 134 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,879 the way that I'm so tired of getting these phone 135 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:15,279 calls because and I work with con artists all the time, 136 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,439 because one of my favorite things to do in life 137 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:18,959 is to do jobs that people don't want to do. 138 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,079 And so one day I decided, I'm going to go 139 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,079 work at a grocery store because I saw it on TV. 140 00:06:24,199 --> 00:06:26,079 These two old guys at a grocery store, and they 141 00:06:26,079 --> 00:06:29,160 look like that they're community connected. And so when I 142 00:06:29,199 --> 00:06:31,279 sit here and I read about con men and call 143 00:06:31,399 --> 00:06:35,240 centers and rogue doctors, I'm going I live this every 144 00:06:35,319 --> 00:06:37,000 day because they're coming through my store. 145 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 2: Yep. 146 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're coming through people's lives. You know, there 147 00:06:42,079 --> 00:06:46,079 was an opportunity to there was, you know, hundreds of 148 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,319 thousands of women who started suing over this product. And 149 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,079 the lawyers and the doctors and the middlemen realized that 150 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,240 they were sitting on a gold mine and if only 151 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,199 they could convince women to have the product removed, that 152 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,720 it would increase the value of the settlement for them 153 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,439 and not necessarily for the women. And so the machine 154 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,519 started to grind, grind up. 155 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,639 Speaker 1: Doesn't this open up the door for people to say, 156 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,680 I knew it only because when it comes to America's 157 00:07:14,759 --> 00:07:17,639 lawsuit factory. When I had my heart attack at forty seven, 158 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,720 I accused my doctor of faking it because they were 159 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,839 just looking for business. And even more recently, when another 160 00:07:22,879 --> 00:07:24,839 doctor told me, well, I need you to lose weight 161 00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:27,120 to get your cholesterol down, and I do it, he says, oh, 162 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:29,439 there must be a bigger problem. And I'm going, what 163 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,319 are you doing here? And then I come across you 164 00:07:32,439 --> 00:07:35,959 here America's lawsuit factory. I'm going, oh, my god, am 165 00:07:36,079 --> 00:07:39,199 I a victim? And are we victims? Just like Sharon 166 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,680 Barbara and Jerry Well. 167 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,279 Speaker 2: I mean, that's the big question. 168 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: And I think a lot of this was based on 169 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,079 trust or lack of you know, maybe trust that shouldn't 170 00:07:49,079 --> 00:07:52,480 have been placed in these doctors. I know one of 171 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,360 the reasons that so many women got exploited, and this 172 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,720 was the doctors were very dismissive of their pelvic pain. 173 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,480 So they would go and talk to their doctors and say, 174 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:05,040 you know, something's wrong, something's poking me, something's terrible happening, 175 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:07,480 and the doctors would just sort of wave their hands 176 00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:10,680 and say, everything looks fine to us. And so when 177 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,360 these callers called and said, well, you know, doctors don't understand. 178 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,079 They're not on the cutting edge of this. There are 179 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:18,319 only a few doctors in the country who can do this. 180 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,839 We'll set up an appointment to fly you down to 181 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:21,360 see them. 182 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,879 Speaker 2: It resonated with a lot of these. 183 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,399 Speaker 1: People, Please do not move. There's more with Elizabeth Chamblee 184 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,759 Birch coming up next. The name of your new book, 185 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:36,840 The pain Brokers. Elizabeth Chamblee Birch, you went through two 186 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:39,879 hundred and nine thousand pages of evidence. I don't know 187 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,279 how you do it, but the thing is is that 188 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,799 I respect you for doing it because I thought I 189 00:08:44,919 --> 00:08:47,159 was a research pig, and then when I find out 190 00:08:47,159 --> 00:08:49,360 about this from you, I'm going I want to be 191 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,919 like Elizabeth. I want to have that courage and that 192 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,000 confidence to say there's a story here and we're going 193 00:08:55,039 --> 00:08:55,559 to find it. 194 00:08:56,879 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 3: Well, it is digging for that needle in a haystack, 195 00:08:59,519 --> 00:09:02,600 and you have these like wonderful you know, just when 196 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,000 you get so discouraged and you're like, oh, there's nothing 197 00:09:05,039 --> 00:09:07,399 that I can find, then you find that thing that 198 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,960 you weren't supposed to find, and it's just these amazing 199 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,000 aha moments that happened along the way that keep you going, 200 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,200 and you know, you feel a little bit like a detective. 201 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: It's really wonderful. 202 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: But isn't this con job also involving lawyers as well? 203 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,320 Because how many times have we seen those commercials on TV. 204 00:09:24,759 --> 00:09:28,159 If you've had the hernia mesh, you could be in trouble. 205 00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:30,080 Now I'm going, well, why am I going to the 206 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,080 doctor if the doctor says you got to do it? 207 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,960 And these guys are saying, well, you're going to screw 208 00:09:34,039 --> 00:09:35,919 up if you do it. I mean you're caught right 209 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,279 in the middle of the quarter of walk and don't walk. 210 00:09:39,639 --> 00:09:40,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, you really are. 211 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 3: And so much of it falls on us as consumers 212 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,960 to try to do the research to figure out is 213 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,639 this the right thing for me? You know, lawyers were 214 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,679 very much involved in this as well, and there was 215 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,600 a kind of a loophole in Washington, d C. It 216 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:00,200 started because lobbyists, I think, wanted to go on the 217 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,759 cloak of privilege with lawyers. 218 00:10:02,799 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 2: But in DC you can start a law firm. 219 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 3: With non lawyer partners as long as you have a 220 00:10:08,159 --> 00:10:11,320 single DC lawyer who's willing to be your front man. 221 00:10:11,919 --> 00:10:14,519 And so there was a call center that created a 222 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:20,240 partnership with a DC law firm and instead of selling 223 00:10:20,279 --> 00:10:25,600 these quote unquote leads for clients, was actually able to 224 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,200 get in on the contingency fees. 225 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,919 Speaker 1: Oh, Elizabeth, you have woken up the bear here because 226 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,600 I'll tell you what it's happened to my wife and I. 227 00:10:34,879 --> 00:10:37,080 And you're right about the you know, those call centers 228 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,519 in the way that it just seems like when doctors 229 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,799 see something that they that needs to be looked at, 230 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,879 why are we getting phone calls from four and five 231 00:10:43,919 --> 00:10:46,399 different businesses? I mean to go get an MRI. There 232 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,639 must have been seven or eight phone calls for people saying, 233 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,320 I can get you in, I can get you in. 234 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,919 I'm going, is there anybody here that that that has 235 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,399 actually worked with me or talked with me? I mean, 236 00:10:55,399 --> 00:10:57,919 you you're such an eye opening situation here with the 237 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,000 pain brokers. 238 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 3: It is, and you know, the troubling part about it 239 00:11:02,639 --> 00:11:04,919 was all these sort of side scams that I found 240 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,039 as I was going along. 241 00:11:06,159 --> 00:11:07,159 Speaker 2: You know, you have these. 242 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 3: Chiropractic clinics that are trying to you know, have lawyers 243 00:11:11,399 --> 00:11:14,279 in house next door to the chiropractor and send their 244 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,240 you know, car accident victim over and some of them 245 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,360 are subjected to unnecessary surgeries to do the same sort 246 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:22,320 of thing. But you know, you have to pick the 247 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,080 story that you can tell and that you can write 248 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,360 about in a coherent way. And it's it's really disturbing 249 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:30,000 how much of this continues to go on? 250 00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:32,519 Speaker 1: Are we a weak people? Because and the reason why 251 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,759 I bring that up is because I was always I 252 00:11:34,799 --> 00:11:37,039 was angry when my parents ended up at the doctor, 253 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,639 like almost every day of the week. I'm going, what 254 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,039 are you doing? And are we weak? Or is it 255 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,080 that we just want to feel better? 256 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 3: You know, I think people just want to feel better, 257 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:51,360 and you know, they don't always have the education, and 258 00:11:51,399 --> 00:11:54,600 so we trust people who are educated and who are 259 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:58,519 supposed to be acting on our behalf. And there are 260 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,600 wonderful doctors out there, are wonderful lawyers out there who 261 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,399 are very much trying to do good in the world. 262 00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:06,240 And so you know, the key is finding the right 263 00:12:06,279 --> 00:12:08,879 group of doctors and lawyers who can help you instead 264 00:12:08,919 --> 00:12:11,919 of bringing you additional pain. 265 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: So, as a creative person, as the published author and 266 00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:18,200 somebody who's connected to a publishing company, how do you 267 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,039 get somebody like chat GPT to get you on their 268 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,120 list when it comes because you know people are going 269 00:12:23,159 --> 00:12:25,440 there to get answers, And how do we get the 270 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,960 pain brokers up there? How are you guys working on that? 271 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 2: You mean, how are we getting it out into the world? 272 00:12:32,399 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: Because I mean, because when I go to chat GPT, 273 00:12:35,039 --> 00:12:37,200 I want answers and so and I think I think 274 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,039 the pain Brokers is an answer. But it's like, Okay, 275 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,840 we can put it up on TikTok, but where's everybody going. 276 00:12:42,879 --> 00:12:45,120 And obviously everybody's going to chat GPT because they want 277 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,919 to put advertising on it now, They're not going to 278 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,879 do it if the people aren't there. And so it's like, 279 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,960 how do we get Elizabeth out there to where there 280 00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:54,159 is something that we can choose from. 281 00:12:55,159 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, that's the real challenge, is 282 00:12:57,159 --> 00:12:59,320 to try to break through the noise of things that 283 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,320 are going on every day. It's one of the reasons 284 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,519 I was so excited to talk with you is because 285 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,720 you know, you want people to be able to hear 286 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:06,120 about it. 287 00:13:06,159 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 2: You want to get it out into the world. 288 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,759 Speaker 3: You want it to be part of the rhythms of 289 00:13:10,799 --> 00:13:13,159 the daily life and to come up for people in 290 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,480 their searches and to come up as a reliable source 291 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:19,879 of information. But it is, I mean, it is a 292 00:13:19,919 --> 00:13:23,960 real challenge to break through everything that's going on horribly 293 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,639 in the world and to try to get people to 294 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,120 focus on this for a minute. 295 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: Well, my fear has always been the moments after we've 296 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,879 all dealt with a doctor Christopher, because we've all had 297 00:13:34,039 --> 00:13:35,159 a doctor Christopher. 298 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you all have these. It's it's this trusting 299 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,919 of your gut. And I think, you know, part of 300 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,639 the situation that these women found themselves in is that 301 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,240 they were flown, you know, thousands of miles to a 302 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,639 kind of an eerie twilight zone chiropractic outpatient clinic in 303 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,600 South Florida, and then they were you know, kind of 304 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,320 sucked into the machine at that point. So it's like, 305 00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:03,279 you know, can you stop and say, no, this doesn't 306 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:06,559 feel right to me, I'm backing out of this. And 307 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,320 I think a lot of the women didn't feel like 308 00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:10,120 they could do that at that point. 309 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: Oh. I had a rotator cuff doctor get so pissed 310 00:14:13,639 --> 00:14:15,960 off at me inside the office because he wanted to 311 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,480 do the surgery. And I said, no, you're wrong. If 312 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,600 this is my body, I know what I feel, I'm 313 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,240 going to go with what I feel. And he literally, 314 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,960 in lettering, big letters, in his own handwriting, said do 315 00:14:26,039 --> 00:14:27,559 not invite this patient back here again. 316 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: Wow. Wow. 317 00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it is very much about trusting 318 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,440 your instincts, about standing up for yourself, you know, just 319 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,080 about listening to your gut and saying this isn't right, 320 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,919 this isn't what I want to do for my body. 321 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:42,799 Speaker 1: How are you going to change the world now? In 322 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,759 other words, is your book is out, do you go 323 00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:46,679 on a speaking engagement? How are you are Do you 324 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,039 go out and teaching some of these universities that that 325 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,360 are part of not only the educational field of lawyers, 326 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,000 but doctors as well. 327 00:14:55,159 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 328 00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:58,759 Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting that we've had the first few 329 00:14:58,799 --> 00:15:01,200 events for the Pain Brokers last week, since the book 330 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,240 has been out in the world for just less than 331 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,600 a week now, and I've already been contacted by our 332 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,399 med school. We have a brand new med school here 333 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,879 at the University of Georgia that's just starting up, and 334 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,440 you know, thinking about ways that we can partner with 335 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,080 them to talk about ethics and the medical profession. I 336 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,879 of course teach a third of our incoming class at 337 00:15:19,919 --> 00:15:22,639 the University of Georgia School of Law to talk to 338 00:15:22,679 --> 00:15:25,559 them about turts and civil procedure, and then I teach 339 00:15:25,679 --> 00:15:30,000 advanced mass Torts and complex litigation. And then my hope 340 00:15:30,039 --> 00:15:31,679 is that they go out into the world. You know, 341 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,559 a lot of them are clerking for judges and working 342 00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:37,720 in these big law firms, and you know, between that 343 00:15:37,879 --> 00:15:39,799 and talking with the public, I hope that we can 344 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,360 slowly start to tip the scales. 345 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: God, I would love to see you at you and 346 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,279 CC or even even Queen's College or for that matter, 347 00:15:46,519 --> 00:15:49,559 CPCC with their world and how they're changing people on 348 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,759 the community level. You know, you get into the soul 349 00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:53,879 of where the community is and all of a sudden, Elizabeth, 350 00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:55,200 you're changing people's lives. 351 00:15:56,159 --> 00:15:56,879 Speaker 2: Well. Absolutely. 352 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 3: And I'll be up at Davidson at Main Street Books 353 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,559 in February. I don't know, that's a little bit of 354 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,200 a hike for me, for you, Yeah, from Charlotte. 355 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,399 Speaker 1: It's just up forty five. It's not that big of 356 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:06,799 a hike. 357 00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:09,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm excited about that. 358 00:16:09,879 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 3: I'm talking with the director of writing at Davidson who's 359 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,399 also a professor in gender studies, and you know, it's 360 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,679 open to the public. We'd love to have people there, 361 00:16:18,879 --> 00:16:22,639 particularly from around the Charlotte area, and just really excited 362 00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:24,559 to get this book out there. You know, I'm not 363 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,480 doing a ton of in person, but if people invite me, 364 00:16:27,519 --> 00:16:30,519 I'm happy to come. And if people are doing book clubs. 365 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:33,440 I'm happy to pop in over Zoom just to kind 366 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,039 of do a quick Q and A if people have questions. 367 00:16:35,679 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: Do me a favor. When you go to Davidson, that 368 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,559 is the home of Steph Curry, You've got to go 369 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,679 see you, I know, Oh my god, go see what 370 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:44,799 that man has done to that campus and how it 371 00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:46,919 inspires everything beyond today. 372 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:49,799 Speaker 2: I can't wait. I'm excited. 373 00:16:50,039 --> 00:16:52,919 Speaker 3: I went and toured Davidson when I was an undergrad 374 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,919 or thinking about going to school. That was a long 375 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,399 long time ago, so I'm sure it's changed a whole 376 00:16:58,399 --> 00:16:59,120 lot since then. 377 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: Well I don't know how you guys would even pay 378 00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:02,799 attention if you were in class with Lake Norman up there, 379 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,519 because there's just way too much going on when it 380 00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:05,440 comes to mother nature. 381 00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:08,279 Speaker 2: I bet, I bet. Yeah. 382 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,319 Speaker 3: I didn't end up going to Davidson, but it was 383 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:13,640 a beautiful campus and the people were there were just lovely. 384 00:17:13,759 --> 00:17:16,039 Speaker 2: So I'm excited to have a chance to go back. 385 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,039 Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out more about you? 386 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,920 And how can we keep this conversation growing? This cannot 387 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,640 be a oh January twenty twenty six kind of a conversation. 388 00:17:26,759 --> 00:17:29,839 Speaker 3: No, I hope it'll start, you know, spark beginning of 389 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,640 a movement. So my website is my long and convoluted 390 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:39,000 name at www dot Elizabeth Shamblyccha m bl e E 391 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,000 birch bu rch dot com. But if you just google 392 00:17:42,039 --> 00:17:45,799 The Pain Brokers, I'll come up. It's probably easier to remember. 393 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,400 And I'm on Instagram and you know all the social 394 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,799 media that's out there these days trying to get out 395 00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:54,079 and talk about the book and how it affects everyone. 396 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: See, I'm shocked that you're not doing a radio show 397 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,319 doing this because I mean, it worked for doctor Lore, 398 00:17:58,519 --> 00:18:01,720 it worked for all these other people that would get 399 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,119 on there and play the music. But then you could 400 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:04,920 sit there and say, now here's something we're going to 401 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,839 talk about today. Blah blah blah blah blah. You've just 402 00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:10,000 got that type of personality where it's like that was 403 00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:12,559 a beautiful song, but now, how can we incorporate something 404 00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:13,160 into your day. 405 00:18:14,599 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 2: I love that. I love that idea. 406 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 3: Maybe I can I can do that for you know, 407 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,440 the Pain Broker's two point zero. But for now I'm 408 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,799 just excited to leave that to you and to talk 409 00:18:23,839 --> 00:18:24,559 to you about it. 410 00:18:24,759 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: Wow, well you've got to come back to this show 411 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,039 anytime in the future. Twenty minutes with you is not enough. 412 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 2: Well, I would love that. I'd love to come back. 413 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 3: There's you know, there's so much to this story and 414 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,160 there's so much to mask towarts. I mean, you know, 415 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,759 right now, the GLP one litigation is just gearing up. 416 00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:44,720 All the people who are finding out that we go 417 00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:47,440 via nozimpic isn't the dream that they hoped it might be, 418 00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:51,000 or beginning to sue. There's three thousand of those lawsuits 419 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,319 and two hundred and fifty more being fouled every month. 420 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,079 Speaker 2: So you know, I'm worried about what's going to happen there. 421 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,319 Speaker 1: You're scaring the Butjbi's out of that one because, in 422 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,720 all honesty, so that I could keep my life in 423 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,119 order when it comes to diabetes. I'm the one that 424 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,480 gives my wife her ozimpic every week. Yeah, and then 425 00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:08,440 you and then I read about this inside the book 426 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,559 and I'm going, oh, for the love of Pete, Oh 427 00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:13,400 what's going on? What do I need to watch? 428 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, it can be a wonderful drug 429 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:17,839 for many people. 430 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,839 Speaker 3: It's just that there are occasional side effects, and you know, 431 00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:22,599 there's these questions. 432 00:19:22,039 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: Like we think about you know, you think back. 433 00:19:23,839 --> 00:19:29,039 Speaker 3: To Finn Finn, which was a massive disaster, but it was, 434 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,680 you know, a hugely popular drug and it was alleged 435 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,000 to have caused enlarge heart valves and the people who 436 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:39,799 used it, and then the you know, the pain brokers 437 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,680 came in and there were vans outside of hotels with 438 00:19:43,799 --> 00:19:47,839 echo cardiograms in them, and people lined up to have 439 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,160 their echo cardiograms read within a minute to decide if 440 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,519 they were potential plaintiffs in a lawsuit. 441 00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:57,039 Speaker 1: Oh my god, So you have got the courage to 442 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,960 march right through this dang mountain, and because I'm sure 443 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,759 there are people that are standing in your way saying, Elizabeth, 444 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:04,559 don't go there, but I have to. 445 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean these are stories that nobody really 446 00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:12,119 wants told. So I'm not the most popular person in 447 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,160 the room, but i am excited to tell the stories. 448 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,480 And they're important and they're important for people to hear. 449 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,200 So I'm grateful for the chance to do that. Wow. 450 00:20:21,319 --> 00:20:23,319 Speaker 1: Well, once again, please come back to the show anytime 451 00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:25,119 in the future. The door is always going to be 452 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:25,759 open for you. 453 00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 3: Well, I'm so grateful to you, Ero, thanks so much 454 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:29,680 for having me on. 455 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? 456 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, you do the same. Thank you so much.