Speaker 1: Ah, I got married to a fuck pop whoa, we
Speaker 1: got ready, come joint in the subway shop for.
Speaker 2: I'm married to uncle Pap.
Speaker 3: Whoa by imaging man Rosie.
Speaker 4: Come to me through to hoo like the stick patch
Speaker 4: on the duke.
Speaker 5: Whoa, whoa open.
Speaker 3: Ready joint to see the subway shop over. We got
Speaker 3: ready for the s sway shop for.
Speaker 6: M h.
Speaker 7: Oh, I'm married to a phone.
Speaker 8: Go pop.
Speaker 2: We got ready.
Speaker 7: We got joined in a subway shop. Right, there's a
Speaker 7: man no roads. They come to me through the two
Speaker 7: night I missen man rods. They come to me through
Speaker 7: this Heatoo bunco.
Speaker 8: Phone.
Speaker 4: Whoa bunk.
Speaker 6: Bunk?
Speaker 4: Oh, whoa, I got married. I got married to my phone,
Speaker 4: Go papo.
Speaker 6: We got ready.
Speaker 4: We got joined in a subway shop.
Speaker 5: Will go phone call love, phone call love, I.
Speaker 2: May be to my phone. Do we got wedded, Come
Speaker 2: join in a subway shop.
Speaker 4: Oh who, I'm lippy.
Speaker 5: Married to a funk.
Speaker 9: Go bo.
Speaker 2: We got joined according to the subway shop Boo.
Speaker 5: A minute and biscuits.
Speaker 2: Some minerals to come and be do it to the
Speaker 2: holy man watching on the two.
Speaker 10: Whoa, oh, I'm mab me too my phono.
Speaker 11: We got readed we got joined in the subway shopping boy,
Speaker 11: the mats and minerals.
Speaker 2: I come to middle of it too, the man in minerals.
Speaker 2: They're coming into this year too.
Speaker 4: Whoo ohone, I got married.
Speaker 2: I got married to.
Speaker 12: My funk go Bob.
Speaker 2: We got wedded. We got joined in the subway shop.
Speaker 13: Until the monkey you find off in that tree?
Speaker 2: What you doing up there?
Speaker 6: Why you stand?
Speaker 5: Why you run it from the red bad you ran
Speaker 5: from then trew and from me.
Speaker 13: Until the monkeys like their female monkeys with them Bananna's
Speaker 13: between the trees hanging down upside down.
Speaker 5: That's a smile.
Speaker 13: Side And tell the monkey.
Speaker 6: What you doing to me?
Speaker 2: Till until a monkey, till the.
Speaker 14: Mackyn till the mody.
Speaker 6: What's it doing it to me?
Speaker 4: Till a tiller?
Speaker 8: Mom Moday.
Speaker 5: Till mom fucking Jamie? Could you make me?
Speaker 6: I express?
Speaker 5: So okay, we're gonna open it up.
Speaker 15: Let's keep it.
Speaker 5: One plus one plus one equal three.
Speaker 11: Icons are Adala tree, j J but Jay can I talk?
Speaker 15: But it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Next, Cathodra, God is real wife? Does he allow evil?
Speaker 5: Why do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men?
Speaker 5: It's a no brainer.
Speaker 2: You're such a tyrannical rainer.
Speaker 13: Is this your first time on the web changer, Joe?
Speaker 2: Can't take these loads your slow boys?
Speaker 4: Is this your first time on the shame changer?
Speaker 5: Joe?
Speaker 2: Was that a creator foot part?
Speaker 15: M dude?
Speaker 6: Stop repeating my name?
Speaker 15: Dude?
Speaker 9: You goober's callin or I'll boot you.
Speaker 2: Where did we get the Bible from? Have you read
Speaker 2: the Canons of Franzia?
Speaker 16: What are you Catholic?
Speaker 15: Are you promisonans?
Speaker 11: I'm not trying to be me, but do you have
Speaker 11: an actual argument?
Speaker 2: There is only one church?
Speaker 5: You are in a cult, You're.
Speaker 2: A goblin, a demon, a boomer?
Speaker 17: Quick question?
Speaker 11: Do we have any diddyback venerators in the chat?
Speaker 2: Is this your first time on.
Speaker 5: Chan't take these loads here? Slow boys? Are you?
Speaker 8: Is this your first time on bean where?
Speaker 13: If you're a wine in front.
Speaker 8: Of the line, I'm mute, dude, what.
Speaker 6: Is yours stemic justification?
Speaker 2: That argument is circular and you are refuted?
Speaker 6: Is this your first.
Speaker 5: Time on the wereh?
Speaker 15: I needed you? Oh? What better song to kick it
Speaker 15: off with when debating Protestants than nineteen ninety three electronic
Speaker 15: and dance music straight from the dance hall Twitter. I
Speaker 15: want to see you up.
Speaker 18: There's only one thing they can bring them a together
Speaker 18: that begins with you.
Speaker 15: But where it begins with you, not you. I'm gonna
Speaker 15: tell you what word is Usury.
Speaker 18: On the dance floor.
Speaker 15: Baker. Shut that app up, fakery on the part of
Speaker 15: flour baker.
Speaker 19: Make the people super poor or rep middle class bakers.
Speaker 20: Shake that ass all right, welcome everybody.
Speaker 15: I wanted to play that song last time, but I
Speaker 15: didn't get to it. I got coffee in my mouth.
Speaker 15: I make my coffee so strong that the coffee grounds
Speaker 15: are drowning in it, being like, get me out of here.
Speaker 15: This coffee is too strong. I'm a coffee ground and
Speaker 15: it's too strong. Shout out to my girls, the Dark
Speaker 15: Triad right there. Jamie bought me a Golden Girl's cup.
Speaker 15: I don't know why. I just she just thought it
Speaker 15: was funny. I think because there was an inside joke
Speaker 15: many years ago on a debate with an atheist where
Speaker 15: I said if the atheist debeated defeated me, I would
Speaker 15: give him an autograph golden Girls shirt, and they didn't
Speaker 15: think I actually had one, but I had one. The autograph, though,
Speaker 15: was not from be Arthur or any of the Golden Girls.
Speaker 15: It was me a Golden Girls shirt. So let that
Speaker 15: blow your mind for a moment. All right, what's up?
Speaker 15: Welcome everybody. We got a nice little warm balmy chat today,
Speaker 15: a bunch of chad nerds in the audience. Now, this week,
Speaker 15: I don't know what happened. I'm guessing it's because people
Speaker 15: are leaving Protestantism. I mean, that's my guess. I don't
Speaker 15: know why this screen doesn't.
Speaker 17: Want to work.
Speaker 15: The Protestants got all feisty this week. The Calvinists got
Speaker 15: all feisty on Twitter. They were just they were just sasty.
Speaker 15: They got a little bit of a sass in their
Speaker 15: walk this week, more than normal. And there's several things
Speaker 15: going on in the evangelical Protestant world. One of those
Speaker 15: things is the idea of recovering lost masculinity. Lost masculinity,
Speaker 15: How do we get more masculine? Bro, We got to
Speaker 15: compete with the Muslims, supposedly, and they're having kids and
Speaker 15: they're doing their thing. They're crazy cult things. So we
Speaker 15: got to get more masculine, and so they come up
Speaker 15: with these conferences. I guess Christ is king.
Speaker 3: WHOA.
Speaker 15: Now I made a joke and my joke was intended
Speaker 15: to prod and goad them a bit to get somebody
Speaker 15: to come to debate. But I should have realized that
Speaker 15: it's the same with the Roman Catholics. If you make
Speaker 15: a joke like this and you try to prod them,
Speaker 15: they turn that into a piety signaling thing to where
Speaker 15: you're not worth talking to because you made this joke.
Speaker 15: Now they can spend all week blasting Orthodoxy as idolators, traders,
Speaker 15: anti American, literally, on and on and on, Russian KGB
Speaker 15: agents and the slightest pushback joke back, Oh oh, look
Speaker 15: how un.
Speaker 19: Christ like he is. This man is on christ Like.
Speaker 19: He's not like John MacArthur. John MacArthur calls up people
Speaker 19: who like Trump and say cush words. Trump said the
Speaker 19: P word, and we're not holy, we are holier than vowel. Now,
Speaker 19: I said, these are a bunch of pasty tubby I
Speaker 19: pa men referring back to my ip A video a
Speaker 19: year or six months ago, and I stand my mamat desist.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 15: I don't know or in McIntyre people say, oh, he's
Speaker 15: a cool dude from Glenn Beeck's show. That's entirely possible.
Speaker 15: It's entirely possible. All of these dudes are cool dudes.
Speaker 15: I don't even know who they are. I did recognize
Speaker 15: later on that, oh that's Calvin Robinson without an afro,
Speaker 15: so I didn't even realize that was him. I just
Speaker 15: thought that was like a like an arcle, like a
Speaker 15: nerdy black dude up in there, just being an earth.
Speaker 21: A theological article Laura.
Speaker 15: Toment something like that. But I'm just kidding. Oh, he
Speaker 15: went too far with that one. He went too far
Speaker 15: with that one.
Speaker 22: Bro.
Speaker 15: Now again, Now this dude on the end over here,
Speaker 15: he looks like he was cut from the village people
Speaker 15: with that big old mustache and weird tubby. Look. The
Speaker 15: next dude we had multiple dms. I thought he was
Speaker 15: gonna come to bait multiple times. I will take you
Speaker 15: up all that, sir. The next guy over trying to
Speaker 15: have an orthodox beard, but the high top fade. I
Speaker 15: don't know if y' all know that's out of style
Speaker 15: like five years ago. But what can we expect from Calvinists.
Speaker 15: Maybe these aren't all Calvinists. I don't even know. And
Speaker 15: why are they end up giant polo trash? I'm confused.
Speaker 15: Is that supposed to signify the spiritual track. I don't
Speaker 15: know what this means. Now, Wait, are these not the
Speaker 15: same dudes? Underneath those dudes? So we got the varsity
Speaker 15: team and then the backup Calvinists. Is that what that is?
Speaker 15: I'm joking. I don't even know. It's just to me,
Speaker 15: it's funny just say that they're all like pasty tubby Calvinists,
Speaker 15: when one, two, three, four of them are tubby and
Speaker 15: pasty and the other ones are not. Anyway, I can
Speaker 15: smell the beard oil coming off of this infographic here.
Speaker 15: But I don't have a lot of respect for Calvinists.
Speaker 15: I used to be a Calvinist many years ago, and
Speaker 15: I know that world as well. I haven't been in
Speaker 15: that world in many, many years, so I don't really
Speaker 15: think much about it. But I just thought it was
Speaker 15: funny that multiple Protestants Calvinists this week just chiming in
Speaker 15: on how bad Orthodox he is, how bad we are,
Speaker 15: idolators the worst. And then I put up one comment
Speaker 15: and it's, oh, oh my gosh.
Speaker 23: Look at the way this man speaks. Look at the
Speaker 23: way this man speaks. He does not have the spirit
Speaker 23: of Christ. There's no way he could speak in such ways.
Speaker 23: Worry you ain't true regenerate born again Christian, but speaking
Speaker 23: in such ways proves he's not Christian? Or were you
Speaker 23: predestined to have man boobs? Were you predestined.
Speaker 15: To have tubby flannel man boob ipa aesthetics and drip?
Speaker 15: The only thing dripping on your drip is the sweat
Speaker 15: because y'all has a bunch of tubbies, a bunch of teletubbies,
Speaker 15: a bunch of five point tulip Calvinist teletubbies on the entranets. Anyway,
Speaker 15: this is the next generation of like the Doug Wilson's
Speaker 15: who also is a giant tubby man. Seeing how they're
Speaker 15: all tubby? Do Protestants not know how to eat?
Speaker 6: Do they?
Speaker 15: I don't understand. They don't go to the gym, They
Speaker 15: don't understand, Like what it's it's not hard to not
Speaker 15: be tubby, especially in the days of the Internet, where
Speaker 15: we can figure out how to eat. I can understand
Speaker 15: twenty years ago we didn't know about diets, that we
Speaker 15: didn't know about high fromptose, current storp and all this junk.
Speaker 15: But anyway, yes, I'm making jokes. I think these people
Speaker 15: are kind of worthy of making jokes. Now again, now
Speaker 15: this we Bon guy, Webo whatever is Joel Webo. I
Speaker 15: thought that was like a Japanese dude that married his
Speaker 15: pillow a Webo or something. Joel Webo we Bon. He
Speaker 15: was the loudest of these guys, and he said that
Speaker 15: Protestantism is true because of patriotism in the West and
Speaker 15: all that kind of stuff, which are really is some
Speaker 15: of the stupidest arguments imaginable, because how does the West?
Speaker 15: What does that even mean? The West was Roman Catholic
Speaker 15: prior to being Protestant, so is the West Roman Catholic?
Speaker 15: I mean, this is so stupid, right, like, what are
Speaker 15: you talking about? Well, these guys really treat the Founding
Speaker 15: Fathers as they're Church fathers. That's how Protestant Presonism operates
Speaker 15: in theory. And that's why I thought this was a funny.
Speaker 15: I wish that Grock had done a better picture. Where's
Speaker 15: my grog picture of the found Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 15: This is the Founding Fathers with the magical powdered wig
Speaker 15: powder drafting the inerrant inspired Constitution. Do you see that?
Speaker 15: And if you notice, if you look at if you
Speaker 15: zoom in real close, if you were to pat those wigs,
Speaker 15: you would get some of that magical powdered wig dust.
Speaker 15: That's the source of how those documents were inspired. And
Speaker 15: that's why Saint Benjamin Franklin, who happened to be a
Speaker 15: Atanist and a member of the Health Fire Club, still
Speaker 15: a Protestant founding church father and Saint I'm joking, by
Speaker 15: the way, I'm just trying to prod the Protestants to
Speaker 15: get it. I'm prodding the Protestants. Not in a gayway, though,
Speaker 15: although these guys might like that. I don't sell. All
Speaker 15: these guys look look like they might be on the
Speaker 15: other team, battan on the other team. I don't know.
Speaker 15: I don't know. Now. I understand wes Houff is not
Speaker 15: going to do a debate, but I did want it
Speaker 15: out there that I would love to debate wes Hoff.
Speaker 15: I would happy, be happy to debate any of these
Speaker 15: Protestant pastors. I have zero fear of any of these people. Now,
Speaker 15: one psycho Protestant guy who did a debate recently, who
Speaker 15: has literally like a few thousand followers he wants to debate.
Speaker 15: I don't want to debate that guy because he's literally
Speaker 15: just a psycho. I tried to get him to debate
Speaker 15: years ago, he wouldn't do it. Now he wants to
Speaker 15: debate because he's trying to build clout. So not every
Speaker 15: person I don't debate is because of some sort of
Speaker 15: fear or something like that. I didn't even extend an
Speaker 15: offer to that guy. Recently, I'm talking about all of
Speaker 15: these Protestants over here. I mean, I don't even know
Speaker 15: what it meant. Like there was a dude literally saying
Speaker 15: that if you are against Protestantism, you're anti white and
Speaker 15: you're a communist, just like the most wow, stupid thing
Speaker 15: I've ever heard, Like, what the hell are you talking about?
Speaker 15: And then the other people are saying that, oh, I'm
Speaker 15: not actually going to debate into these people. I'm just
Speaker 15: putting out challenges. I'm like, what the heck are you
Speaker 15: talking about? Dude. It's like, I mean, I'm not trying
Speaker 15: to be arrogant, but I've been debating people publicly since
Speaker 15: twenty seventeen, so that's nine years of public debates with
Speaker 15: countless public figures, countless atheists and Muslims, and these people
Speaker 15: act like I'm just some rando that's never debated anybody.
Speaker 15: It's like it's kind of unbelievable. Really. Now, when it
Speaker 15: comes to James White or any of these people, there's
Speaker 15: a pattern of they make miss they make statements that
Speaker 15: they will not debate me, and they have a list
Speaker 15: in litany of reasons as to why. First of all,
Speaker 15: White has said for years he doesn't have time to
Speaker 15: study orthodoxy, he's not interested in that debate. Also on
Speaker 15: me personally, my channel is too weird and there's too
Speaker 15: many geopolitical conspiracy topics. I don't know what that would
Speaker 15: have to do with whether you would debate or not.
Speaker 15: But to me, those are all just excuses, and they're
Speaker 15: really no different than the other excuses that the Roman
Speaker 15: Catholics have used. Which is now, notice this is a
Speaker 15: pattern of what people do. Then we're gonna open up
Speaker 15: just a second. But I want to keep calling attention
Speaker 15: to this because I've seen so many people do this,
Speaker 15: and it's so transparent. Once you see it, they throw
Speaker 15: out all kinds of attacks, prods, jokes, ribbing. The minute
Speaker 15: you respond, there's suddenly a victim. You should have never
Speaker 15: responded to them because they're a small profile with no attention.
Speaker 15: Why are you bullying me? Why are you even responding
Speaker 15: to me? How dare you reply to my attacks? You're
Speaker 15: so mean and it's so you're so irreverent and on
Speaker 15: christ like. When they literally said like the worst stuff imaginable,
Speaker 15: that to me is the most slimy behavior ever. Now,
Speaker 15: one of these guys, this easily guy who is over
Speaker 15: here literally every day tweeting about Orthodoxy for the last
Speaker 15: few weeks, he says, Oh, yeah, let's have a chat.
Speaker 15: I'd love to come on and we can have a conversation,
Speaker 15: not a debate. I told him politely in the DMS, Hey,
Speaker 15: I'm happy to do that. We don't have to have
Speaker 15: a debate. You're always walking to have a conversation if
Speaker 15: that's what you'd like. Well, today he comes back and says, oh,
Speaker 15: I saw some clips of you on the internet and
Speaker 15: you called a guy a name three years ago. Maybe
Speaker 15: the guy who called in deserved to be called a name. No,
Speaker 15: but you called the guy a name. Therefore you're not
Speaker 15: christ Like. I'm not going to interact with you. This
Speaker 15: is why you goobers have a crisis of masculinity. Is effeminate,
Speaker 15: and you're passive aggressive, and anytime somebody calls you out
Speaker 15: on a week plus of going after us to step
Speaker 15: up to the plate and defend your positions, and then
Speaker 15: you cower hiding behind the fact that I once said
Speaker 15: a quote mean thing three years ago. That's your crisis
Speaker 15: of masculinity, is that you're a coward. You're a giant VAJAYJ.
Speaker 15: I'm the only giant VJJ that's allowed to be on here. Okay,
Speaker 15: are we clear now, I'm just being silly. I'm having fun. Relax,
Speaker 15: chill up. But look, we had a PhD guy the
Speaker 15: other day this He says, I'm a Calvinist from Bulgaria
Speaker 15: and I know the truth of orthodoxy, and I would
Speaker 15: never debate you accepting written form written for him. Are
Speaker 15: you joking? This is not two thousand and seven, Not
Speaker 15: on Zanga, dude, We're not on word Press. Is twenty
Speaker 15: twenty four. Ward Dollar people have YouTube debates and video
Speaker 15: It's like, what are you talking about? A written debate? Like,
Speaker 15: I'm gonna sit there. And by the way, some multiple people,
Speaker 15: including FDA and others were calling that out. He just
Speaker 15: wants a written debate so he can rely on grock
Speaker 15: and chat GPT. You can't get away with that in
Speaker 15: a actual classical formal debate. But it's a trick, and
Speaker 15: people are figuring that out. You got people saying, I'm
Speaker 15: a length, I'm a scholar, I'm an expert in these
Speaker 15: fields when they're like twenty and they don't have a
Speaker 15: college degree and they're literally going and putting everything into
Speaker 15: chat GPT. And then this other guy maybe he maybe
Speaker 15: maybe he is a PhD. Now, if you're a PhD,
Speaker 15: wouldn't it be easy for you to come and demolish me?
Speaker 18: I mean, that's due, said this bud News commudian. Well
Speaker 18: it could crush him and do sick good to debate.
Speaker 18: Oh Bulgarrial Gulvinus. There's five of us and all the Bulgiria.
Speaker 18: It's the true church. Clearly, Uh no, won't come. Now,
Speaker 18: we got this other dude right here. Look at this guy.
Speaker 15: He just wants to call us names. No wonder, we
Speaker 15: don't want to debate him. Sola Chad. Now, if you're
Speaker 15: a chad man, he's this is more more than more
Speaker 15: like a fed profile. He puts a dang ai gun
Speaker 15: and a Bible, but he won't come to bate. He's
Speaker 15: over here posting r C Sproler. He's over there sipping
Speaker 15: on r C Sproler, getting drunk. The rc sprol is
Speaker 15: like the He's like the Colombo of Calvinism. No, what
Speaker 15: why was that again?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 24: Did you say told again? Run that back for me,
Speaker 24: because I'm rc Sproller. Take a take a drink on
Speaker 24: my drip, get drunk on by Calvinism.
Speaker 15: Did these Calvinists won't last ten minutes in a debate.
Speaker 15: I guarantee you I know inside and out Calvinism. So
Speaker 15: I hope that you guys will step up. It's open
Speaker 15: for him. I'm a comedy. I'm a clown, dude. I
Speaker 15: even put in my profile clown. Look at that right there,
Speaker 15: writer for Sam Hide Show. Comedian Officially, now I can
Speaker 15: officially call it. I appropriated that title in deception because
Speaker 15: I didn't actually have any proof that I was a
Speaker 15: comedian except for being on The Tucker Show for ten
Speaker 15: minutes being a quote comedian. So the joke was that
Speaker 15: I called myself a comedian, but I didn't really have
Speaker 15: any proof of that.
Speaker 12: But in today's world, you can just call yourself whatever
Speaker 12: you want. You can manifest it. So I manifested myself
Speaker 12: as a comedian. Then Sam Hide hired me, So let
Speaker 12: that blow your mind. That's proof of manifestation, dog, how
Speaker 12: do you prove manifestation? I got the one ring. Look
Speaker 12: at that, that's Frodo's one ring right there. The one
Speaker 12: ring doesn't just make you invisible, it also manifests your dreams.
Speaker 12: I manifested this, so.
Speaker 15: Now I actually do have cred. Now why do I
Speaker 15: say all that? Because if I'm an idiot comedian man,
Speaker 15: it should be nothing for any of these smart boomer
Speaker 15: theology men and gen X's theology man. They should be
Speaker 15: able to just pop on here and demolish me in
Speaker 15: two seconds, make me look stupid, eh, wouldn't it be? Yeah,
Speaker 15: name it claiming. That's what I'm talking about. I was
Speaker 15: following Kenneth Copeland when y'all were still in your diapers.
Speaker 15: Why do y'all still in diapers? Especially these tubby oap
Speaker 15: men over here, This Joe Webon over at Webo married
Speaker 15: to his nip on pillow or whatever the heck that
Speaker 15: means over there in a dang diaper. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 15: Think an need of these people want a debate? Yeah,
Speaker 15: I read Paul Kalo. I figured out this is the secret.
Speaker 15: I got the one ring. I manifested my dreams. Bro,
Speaker 15: I manifest, I said, Sam Hyde is gonna want me
Speaker 15: as a comedy man dreams manifested right there? Look at that.
Speaker 15: How is Calvinism true if I manifested all that? Anyway,
Speaker 15: I'm being silly. I can't help it.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 15: But by the way, I do have a pretty intense
Speaker 15: dislike for Calvinism, and I can say that as a
Speaker 15: person who was a Calvinist. I was at bonson seminary.
Speaker 15: So today we're going to open it up. Hopefully we
Speaker 15: get some some Protestants and some Calvinists over here. You know,
Speaker 15: as I think back over the last several years, we've
Speaker 15: had a lot of Roman Catholic debates. Well, where's all
Speaker 15: the Protestants. Let's see, who was the last Protestant I
Speaker 15: remember debating? Was Dale the Protestant together with doctor bow Brands.
Speaker 15: Remember that debate? Dale got so mad that he's still
Speaker 15: attacking Orthodoxy all the time. No, no, I can't. Well, right
Speaker 15: around that time, I take that back, was the Redeem
Speaker 15: Zoomer debate. But the Redeemed Zoomer debate broke. Redeem Zoomer
Speaker 15: literally broke that dude. He has been angry tweeting about
Speaker 15: Orthodoxy ever since, and he actually said I'm quitting. Too
Speaker 15: many people are converting Orthodoxy. Now look, I just am
Speaker 15: about to post that on Twitter. By the way, that
Speaker 15: Redeem Zoomer debates about to go up, because every time
Speaker 15: you do a debate with a Calvinist, it's just like
Speaker 15: the Protestants, I mean the Muslims.
Speaker 17: Same thing.
Speaker 15: Protestants, Muslims, same thing.
Speaker 21: When you do a debate with them, they're like, well,
Speaker 21: you didn't debate the real Calvinist. You debated this young
Speaker 21: man who's basically a child on the untrodout. He's only
Speaker 21: tw he loved or whatever he is.
Speaker 15: Yes, I know there's always the hidden e mom of
Speaker 15: the Calvinist that's out there that you haven't yet debated
Speaker 15: because you're running from the hidden mom. Nobody knows who
Speaker 15: the hidden mom is, but you're running from him because
Speaker 15: you won't debate the real Muslim scholar, just like you
Speaker 15: won't debate the real Protestant scholar. All right anyway, and
Speaker 15: not being silly, Oh yeah, Pastor P. Pastor P was
Speaker 15: like a year ago though, But I guess it's all
Speaker 15: coming up till about a year where Redeem Zuomer and
Speaker 15: who's the other Protestant I forget his name anyway, I
Speaker 15: don't remember who the other Protestants were. But look, we're
Speaker 15: about to get busy. It's about to open up, right,
Speaker 15: It's about to open up and get busy. Jamie's not here.
Speaker 15: So I got a giant jug. I got a sipping
Speaker 15: jug of coffee, so nobody can stop me. You will
Speaker 15: not make me angry. I will continue to operate in
Speaker 15: love because I have my ginger chewes, which will keep
Speaker 15: my the demon, the beat us demon down. There will
Speaker 15: not be diabet us anger, and that demon will not
Speaker 15: possess me. So all of y'all can't copy and paste
Speaker 15: from Sam Shimun and say that I'm manifesting my demons
Speaker 15: or whatever. How are you going to do that? I
Speaker 15: got the sacrament of gender Jews right here. Also got
Speaker 15: to back up the bananas. But that is not for debating.
Speaker 15: That's for calling in Matt delahunkey, Dela monkey. When I
Speaker 15: when I'm starting to lose and I gotta rely on
Speaker 15: a uh seasoned rage quitter, I'll call up on the.
Speaker 25: Banana phone, Matt Dola monkey, Matt Dela monkey. You climbed
Speaker 25: up in that tree? What you're doing up there? Are
Speaker 25: you scared. Why are you running from every deep bay?
Speaker 6: Hey?
Speaker 15: You ran from and and from me, So don't piss
Speaker 15: me off. I'll get on that banana phone.
Speaker 25: And by the way, that banana phone has your mom's
Speaker 25: number on speed dial.
Speaker 15: That's the zigger. Laugh, don't be racist. This phone, this
Speaker 15: phone right here calls directly to Matt Dela monkey, your mom,
Speaker 15: and Mohammed. Hey, jab, there was a there was a
Speaker 15: Calvinist saying that I'm I'm the orthodox Mohammed a job
Speaker 15: because I don't really debate anybody. I just throw out
Speaker 15: the debate me excuse okay, dude, yeah sure, even though
Speaker 15: that's totally backwards. As a reminder, Mohammed h a job
Speaker 15: when I asked him to debate after this, take them back.
Speaker 15: This is right before, no, this is after no, this
Speaker 15: is right before I forget when okay, three to five
Speaker 15: million views on our debate. But you are not popular enough,
Speaker 15: mister DIYer.
Speaker 23: As you can see for my Twitter, four people challenge
Speaker 23: me to debate my team his team.
Speaker 15: Does he actually have a team or is that like
Speaker 15: Sneako and two other goobers our team review. You do
Speaker 15: not generate numbers. You only have a four hundred thousand
Speaker 15: views on Big Video. I am not closing door. Figure out.
Speaker 15: I wait to become more popular. So he mean, girl me,
Speaker 15: I'm not allowed at the popular table. Even though even
Speaker 15: though our debate was originally the biggest debate of last year.
Speaker 15: I would say maybe because of the Joe Rogan thing,
Speaker 15: that the Wes Huff Billy Corson debate has surpassed it,
Speaker 15: because now everybody's talked about that debate. But it's the
Speaker 15: second biggest debate of last year. But now I'm not
Speaker 15: popular enough, even though we just had twenty million impressions
Speaker 15: on last Friday's Alex Jones show. Now, don't make the cut, dude,
Speaker 15: don't make the cut. Now. I know mohammedhed Job knows
Speaker 15: about being suppressed in shadow band too, which my channel
Speaker 15: was demonetized in twenty eighteen, so that might have something
Speaker 15: to do with it too, But no, no, that doesn't
Speaker 15: exist in my case. You see. Anyway, Mohammed had Job
Speaker 15: knows way better. He knows better than to pick one
Speaker 15: of his goobers to debate with me and Sam because
Speaker 15: that would go nowhere. So of course he's not gonna
Speaker 15: do that, and we knew he wouldn't do it, but
Speaker 15: it's time to open it up. If you want to
Speaker 15: support the stream via super chest, thank you to the
Speaker 15: people who've already super chatted. You can do that right here.
Speaker 15: I'm hoping to get Protestants. If we don't get Protestants,
Speaker 15: that's okay. We'll open it up to whoever wants to
Speaker 15: come on. We've already got about six people in line.
Speaker 15: And uh, there's the link to call in. And then wait, no,
Speaker 15: that's the link to super chat here, and that's penned
Speaker 15: and here's the link to call in. You call in
Speaker 15: via Twitter spaces. Now, I've already had a pretty a
Speaker 15: serious amount of coffee today, so I'm already getting at
Speaker 15: a little too overheated. I better calm down with some
Speaker 15: of this Dila monkey. I got a diala Monkey snack
Speaker 15: right here. Eighth the a snack data bought seven seven seven.
Speaker 15: One wants to debate and he's a low tier Protestant.
Speaker 15: Well ooh, okay, I guess. But you know something I
Speaker 15: found is that I would say ninety percent of the
Speaker 15: time when I have okay, he's unblocked. When I when
Speaker 15: I blocked people, I was right. There's about two percent
Speaker 15: of the cases where maybe I got it wrong, and
Speaker 15: then in a few instances somebody comes back three four
Speaker 15: years later and says, hey, I was an idiot, you
Speaker 15: were wrong. Will you unblock me. I've had I've had
Speaker 15: that happen probably five ten times. So maybe I got
Speaker 15: it wrong. But most of the time, if I if
Speaker 15: I banned you, I was in the right because you
Speaker 15: were dumb, you said dumb stuff, and I have a
Speaker 15: very uh quick block mute block mute, black mute. So
Speaker 15: that's how we roll around here anyway. All right, topics
Speaker 15: are we're gonna open up right now. I'm gonna quit yapping,
Speaker 15: shut up, yapping, dire, shut up. Priority topics are Protestantism, Calvinism, Evangelicalism,
Speaker 15: church history, soul, scripture of Bible, et cetera. Second tier
Speaker 15: priority today Roman Catholicism, papacy, et cetera. And then third
Speaker 15: tier all the rest of the stuff Muslims, Atheists, Hebrew roots, Judaism,
Speaker 15: blah blah blah. By the way, you see that there
Speaker 15: was a Hebrew roots Bhi dude that came into the
Speaker 15: last or maybe two debates back. I forget his name,
Speaker 15: Genesis something good pastor Genesis Anyway, it turns out that
Speaker 15: I was insane because he did a stream that when
Speaker 15: the Kingdom of the Black Hebewer Israelites come, he's making
Speaker 15: me his special slave and I'm gonna get a electroshock
Speaker 15: collar and he's going to whip me so many times
Speaker 15: that my skin will be flayed off of my back.
Speaker 15: This is what he says in his life stream. I
Speaker 15: didn't realize they're that insane. I thought they just had
Speaker 15: this weird sect. They actually think they're going to like
Speaker 15: go to war and enslave all the white people. Either
Speaker 15: that or he's a fed. So this guy's insane. I
Speaker 15: forget his name, but he's one of these Bhi dudes.
Speaker 15: And but I mean, you're talking about people who believe
Speaker 15: that the word a Jewish means that they're kind of Jewish.
Speaker 25: Well when that jew but we're kind the Jewish and
Speaker 25: hence the term Jewish.
Speaker 15: You see, they actually believe that that's what that word means.
Speaker 15: Like these are people who can't do grammar, but their prophets,
Speaker 15: Like they don't know third grade grammar, but they have
Speaker 15: the gift of prophecy. I'm not joking, Like that's literally
Speaker 15: what these people believe. So I think with like, you
Speaker 15: can't debate those kinds of people, Like if a person
Speaker 15: can't function like they're this is a new dude though.
Speaker 15: Right he's a Jewish guy debating a black heuber Israelite.
Speaker 15: That would be a funny. I could do like both
Speaker 15: sides of that debate, and that would be that would
Speaker 15: be fire, dude. All right, let's open it up. Priority
Speaker 15: goes to the Prats today. Shout out to my Protestant
Speaker 15: brothers and sisters, psychros sisters. All right, we got Jacob Now,
Speaker 15: I've been seeing him tweeting over here. What's Jacob got
Speaker 15: on his mind? Shout out to yaku.
Speaker 6: Hey, what's up, Jake?
Speaker 15: Who would win in a debate between an Orthodox Jewish
Speaker 15: rabbi and Yakoub?
Speaker 6: Depends on the day.
Speaker 15: I think I got like if it was the Sabbath
Speaker 15: and he couldn't debate exactly? Okay, what's on your mind? Dog?
Speaker 6: So actually not really here to debate. I'm actually I
Speaker 6: have a great.
Speaker 26: Interest in Orthodoxy, but I was raised Protestant and so
Speaker 26: figured out to ask you a couple questions. First, one
Speaker 26: is when it comes to veneration, which is something that's
Speaker 26: super foreign to Protestants. This this idea of latria versus Julia,
Speaker 26: honor and worship I pulled up in Revelation. Let's see
Speaker 26: sixteen verse two, the word worship, I'm gonna try to
Speaker 26: pronounce it proscanello, right, So Proscanillo here. I'm curious as
Speaker 26: I'm looking through all of the different links to Proscanillo
Speaker 26: all throughout the Old and New Testament. There's two use cases,
Speaker 26: and the first proper as of God, Christ and super
Speaker 26: mundane beings, and I see all of these having to
Speaker 26: do with worship that is only unto God. And the
Speaker 26: second one, it seems, you know, it says of homage
Speaker 26: to human superiors. So I can see kind of a
Speaker 26: delineation there. But when I click on some of these
Speaker 26: second case usages for paying homage to human superiors x
Speaker 26: ten point fifteen x ten twenty five. When Peter entered,
Speaker 26: Cornelius met him and fell down as if he'd worshiped him,
Speaker 26: but Peter lifted him up, saying, stand up.
Speaker 6: I to him man.
Speaker 15: So it's not so a lot of times what Protestants do,
Speaker 15: and I'm not faulting you for this, is that they
Speaker 15: will look up in a Greek dictionary or a lexicon
Speaker 15: the usage of that term, and then assign a single
Speaker 15: sense to that term. So we could say that I revere,
Speaker 15: I honor, I give homage, I venerate like all of
Speaker 15: those terms could mean different things. So do I honor God? Yes? Okay,
Speaker 15: honor your father mother? Do you honor God the father? Sure?
Speaker 15: Do I honor them with the same honor? No? So
Speaker 15: the terms are not the things that are going to
Speaker 15: tell you the theological meanings. And this is what a
Speaker 15: lot of times Protestants get backwards. And that's why, for example,
Speaker 15: Joseph he bows before Pharaoh, right, Elisha bows before Elijah.
Speaker 15: Joshua bows before the arc of the covenant in Joshua seven.
Speaker 15: So the action itself, the bodily action, is not itself
Speaker 15: the essence of what constitutes latria or dulia. It's what's
Speaker 15: in the mind and the heart. And that's why Jesus
Speaker 15: says that idolatry and other things proceed from the heart
Speaker 15: of man, not just from what goes into the mouth
Speaker 15: or by extension, is not just bodily actions. So when
Speaker 15: there's a bowing before the angels, and the angels say,
Speaker 15: do not worship me, I am another creature like you,
Speaker 15: that's signifying the point that you do not give the
Speaker 15: same honor to created things that you do to the
Speaker 15: uncreated allah of God. So it's really not determined by
Speaker 15: specific Greek words. The Latin Church developed that distinction, particularly
Speaker 15: if you read something like Saint Jerome's essay against Helvigius,
Speaker 15: which is, if I recall that's the one about relics,
Speaker 15: and he points out that the honor that we give
Speaker 15: to the relics is like the honor that you would
Speaker 15: give to father and mother, or to anyone else that
Speaker 15: deserves authority, but they deserve more honor because they're above
Speaker 15: even earthly authorities. And so if it's proper in the
Speaker 15: ancient medieval world to bow before a king or a magistrate,
Speaker 15: how much more proper is it to bow before you know,
Speaker 15: the kings and magistrates of God's kingdom, the saints.
Speaker 26: So would you say, essentially, it does come down to
Speaker 26: the heart of a person, and it's individualized case by case.
Speaker 26: That's really really not distinguishable for most people externally, Like
Speaker 26: would you agree with well.
Speaker 15: I would say that in many cases, you know, say
Speaker 15: we're where we go to some pagan region and everybody's
Speaker 15: bowing down to an idol. It would be the case
Speaker 15: that most likely pretty much everybody there that's bowing down
Speaker 15: is committing idolatry, because in their hearts they do conceive
Speaker 15: of that idol as having mystical power or being divine,
Speaker 15: or animism or polytheism or something like that. So yeah,
Speaker 15: in certain cases, the majority of the body actions would
Speaker 15: be idolatry, but it can't be in all cases, because
Speaker 15: it's not idolatrous for Joshua and all the elders of
Speaker 15: Israel to bow down before the arc and prostration. If
Speaker 15: the essence of idolatry is the bodily action.
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, it makes sense too, and it's cool to see.
Speaker 26: I think it's later in Revelation the verse where God
Speaker 26: actually says that he will command those to bow down
Speaker 26: at the feet of those he loves, all right, So
Speaker 26: it's a cool distinction, So I appreciate that.
Speaker 15: And then yeah, I highly reckoon men. By the way,
Speaker 15: though Jerome's essay. Have you read that? No, it's not
Speaker 15: very very long. I highly recommend It'll give you a
Speaker 15: good four fifth century insight into what the church in
Speaker 15: Saint Jerome's day thought about these things. Is I'm pretty
Speaker 15: sure it's against televidios. I could look it up, but
Speaker 15: it might be against vigilantius. There's two one is against
Speaker 15: one is about the perpetual virginity, and then the other
Speaker 15: one is about relics.
Speaker 6: So okay cool.
Speaker 26: And then to tap into that, because it flows perfectly
Speaker 26: is with generation and with especially specifically veneration of theotokos
Speaker 26: being at this elevated even elevated higher about the saints.
Speaker 6: One of my main trip ups right now, because like
Speaker 6: I said.
Speaker 26: I'm very well thinking about becoming a catechumen soon and
Speaker 26: one of the biggest things that's kind of I'm ulling
Speaker 26: over my mind is the generation of theotokos because that man,
Speaker 26: some of the things I'm reading in the liturgies these
Speaker 26: liturgy books are like wow. And when I'm reading Saint
Speaker 26: Clement Ignacious justin Martyr. You know, these very first first
Speaker 26: guys in the one hundreds, none of them mentioned theotokos,
Speaker 26: I think, like at all.
Speaker 6: So I just had like this.
Speaker 26: It's so exparagement where I'm like, yeah, what's what's going
Speaker 26: on there?
Speaker 15: So nobody uh So, there's countless things that even Protestants
Speaker 15: believe that the first second century church fathers, even third
Speaker 15: centery church fathers don't mention. For example, there's no first second,
Speaker 15: third century church father that lists the entire Protestant Canon
Speaker 15: of Scripture. So the idea that there's there's this expectation
Speaker 15: of every controversy or every theological issue having some explicit
Speaker 15: written reference is kind of impossible, unworkable, and it's a
Speaker 15: kind of a double standard. Theotokos is not used specifically
Speaker 15: until Saint Cyril and the Council of Ephesus. It's a
Speaker 15: term that he uses to encapsulate the role that she
Speaker 15: has as the one that gave birth according to his
Speaker 15: human nature to the divine person, the logos. So it
Speaker 15: takes on a specific theological precision at Ephesus in four
Speaker 15: thirty one, And so we wouldn't expect that that term
Speaker 15: would have a priority before it became a theological dispute.
Speaker 15: A lot of things in church history don't get precisely
Speaker 15: quote defined until there's a dispute about it. So we
Speaker 15: might reason that there was no dispute about the theotokos
Speaker 15: until the reason there wasn't a bunch of writing about
Speaker 15: it was that is not really disputed yet. But For example,
Speaker 15: in one pint eighty you begin to see massive disputes
Speaker 15: about the liturgical calendar right with the cortadesseminarians. So that
Speaker 15: tells us that there was already a liturgical calendar in
Speaker 15: the mid second century, right, which is contra Protestanism. So
Speaker 15: point being that there's not. It's unrealistic to expect, and
Speaker 15: no Protestant actually holds up for their position either that
Speaker 15: there's some written record of every theological problem or issue
Speaker 15: in the first and second century. I mean, some of
Speaker 15: those first second century church fathers, unless they are speaking alligorically,
Speaker 15: also made theological mistakes, like if they if they're teaching premillennialism,
Speaker 15: so what right.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, And then just kind
Speaker 6: of a much smaller question.
Speaker 26: But even like when when reading about Justice justin Martyr,
Speaker 26: he does seem to have an emphasis on teaching and
Speaker 26: reading of the Word, and you know, in the weekly gatherings,
Speaker 26: which it seems like divine liturgy as I've briefly known.
Speaker 6: It does not seem to have the same emphasis.
Speaker 26: Would you just say, you know, well, now we just
Speaker 26: break it up into different parts of our weeks, and
Speaker 26: or maybe it was it was just historical context.
Speaker 15: Well, it's up to you hold on so that. I
Speaker 15: don't think that's true at all. It's to you to
Speaker 15: whether you choose to follow the daily readings or not.
Speaker 15: And then at the liturgy itself, maybe you didn't hear
Speaker 15: or weren't paying attention. But everything that's sung is scripture.
Speaker 15: So I'm not trying to be rude, but did you
Speaker 15: not pay attention? Like the movable psalms that come in
Speaker 15: and out are based on where we are in the
Speaker 15: liturgical season, and all of that is scripture. And if
Speaker 15: you read the Orthodox Study Bible, you're going to notice
Speaker 15: that as you read through, for example, the Book of Psalms,
Speaker 15: tons and tons and tons of these psalms are chanted
Speaker 15: throughout the various liturgical celebrations Epiphany, right, Christmas, Nativity, like,
Speaker 15: tons of these psalms are sung throughout this, So the
Speaker 15: entire thing is singing scripture. So I don't know where
Speaker 15: you're getting at.
Speaker 26: Yeah, yeah, well, I guess maybe it just comes down
Speaker 26: to homily, the homily itself, like somebody in authority, the priest,
Speaker 26: walking through the applications of scripture, things like that.
Speaker 6: But yeah, you're right as far as.
Speaker 15: Well, But every service includes a reading from the epistles
Speaker 15: and a reading of the Gospels, and then there's every
Speaker 15: now and then you'll find based on certain situations the
Speaker 15: priest doesn't do it homily, but they usually do so.
Speaker 15: For example, this last Sunday, we had a pretty lengthy
Speaker 15: homily on love and the Gospel, so out of the Gospel.
Speaker 15: So I don't I don't know what you mean, Okay, cool,
Speaker 15: I'm not trying to be rude. I just like I
Speaker 15: don't understand the like the idea that maybe you mean
Speaker 15: that they don't do like Protestant exegetical Bible studies. Is
Speaker 15: that what you're friends here?
Speaker 26: Yeah, yeah, I mean exactly, just just coming from a
Speaker 26: Protestant perspective in the background, there's such an emphasis on,
Speaker 26: right that that forty five minutes long homily, right compared
Speaker 26: to these past few weeks. Yeah, like you said, five
Speaker 26: to ten minutes, fifteen minutes maybe tops.
Speaker 6: It's just not an emphasis.
Speaker 26: So something that I'm noticing and curious about as I
Speaker 26: read like justin Marter and his brief mention of you
Speaker 26: know what these Sundays look like.
Speaker 15: I think those Sunday but those Sundays are liturgical celebrations,
Speaker 15: even in Justin Martyr that culminate in the Eucharist according to.
Speaker 26: Him, right, okay, right, And and that's one of the
Speaker 26: things I appreciate most and attracted to most about Orthodox
Speaker 26: he is the emphasis and revolving around the Holy Sacraments
Speaker 26: and specifically the Eucharist.
Speaker 6: So that's cool.
Speaker 26: Cool, And then I'm trying to think if there's anything
Speaker 26: else you answered my question about you know Mary, and
Speaker 26: that that really is probably the biggest hangout.
Speaker 15: Have you seen the video I did a forty minute
Speaker 15: video on the biblical view of Mary?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I actually think I did a couple of weeks back.
Speaker 26: Is that with the Ark of the Covenant as the Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 26: that was cool. Yeah, awesome. Just to tap in one
Speaker 26: more question would be when it comes to the story
Speaker 26: when when the woman yells out to Jesus and or
Speaker 26: his disciples and says, blessed is you know the mother
Speaker 26: who he's nursed at her breast and whatnot? And he
Speaker 26: doesn't rebuke her, but he says, rather bless her are
Speaker 26: those who to do you know, who do the Lord's.
Speaker 6: Will, who follow me?
Speaker 15: Yeah, she fits the double blessing. That's the point. So
Speaker 15: it's not like no, she's not blessed for being my mother. Rather,
Speaker 15: it's these things. It's rather blessed are those who do both.
Speaker 15: And she did both. That's why she's the new Eve.
Speaker 15: As Aaron AA.
Speaker 26: Says, cool, Well, thanks appreciate it, Ja, Yeah, and I
Speaker 26: think I mean Revelation twelve also, I mean, I think
Speaker 26: it makes it really clear that she's exalted to.
Speaker 15: Be the queen of Heaven. And the reason for that
Speaker 15: is precisely because if you look at the typology, you'll
Speaker 15: look back in the Old Testament, you'll see multiple types
Speaker 15: of Mary, and Protestants miss this. But Sarah is a
Speaker 15: type of Mary, Hannah is a type of Mary. And
Speaker 15: the Magnificat prophesies that all generations would call her the
Speaker 15: blessed Mother. And that's precisely the thing that Protestants stopped doing,
Speaker 15: especially as you know, Protestantism evolved into more radical forms.
Speaker 15: I mean, Luther probably still called her the blessed Mother
Speaker 15: at the Tokos, But as Protestism progress progresses, they literally
Speaker 15: just break with the entire tradition of even the Protestants,
Speaker 15: like the classical Reformers believed in perpetual virginity, and then
Speaker 15: they just discarded that and then, oh, no, we don't
Speaker 15: have to. But look, here's the reason for a lot
Speaker 15: of this is this is something that Protestants don't understand,
Speaker 15: is that the Bible was not primarily meant to be
Speaker 15: your study text. There's nothing wrong with studying the Bible
Speaker 15: and having that as your daily reading and all that.
Speaker 15: That's what you're supposed to do. But the actual proper
Speaker 15: context is to be heard in the liturgy, and that's
Speaker 15: something that Protestants just can't fathom. But the weird part
Speaker 15: that they're not aware of is that you actually have
Speaker 15: to go to the ancient liturgical texts to know in
Speaker 15: part what the Bible canon is. These are called the electionaries,
Speaker 15: and so as the Church was forming and debating the
Speaker 15: canon of scripture, one of the things that Protestant scholars
Speaker 15: admit they went back to, not the president scholars, but
Speaker 15: the church fathers. What they looked to was the daily readings,
Speaker 15: the electionaries. Those are liturgical texts. Liturgical texts had a
Speaker 15: huge role in canonicity. And once I learned that and
Speaker 15: saw F. F. Bruce Lee MacDonald, all these Protestant scholars
Speaker 15: admitting that that was one of the ways that I
Speaker 15: exited Protestantism because they are admitting that it's not just
Speaker 15: a matter of the early Church going to people's basements
Speaker 15: and houses and becoming scriptoriums like a bunch of rabbis.
Speaker 15: We just sit here with torah, scroll pointers and look
Speaker 15: at these books all day long. No, no, we eat the book. Now,
Speaker 15: we eat the book. How do you eat the book
Speaker 15: as Ezekiel did prophecy of the New Covenant? How do
Speaker 15: you eat the word? Oh, the liturgy exactly, the Eucharist.
Speaker 15: That's how you eat the word. You don't just read
Speaker 15: it and bringing it to your mind. You partake of
Speaker 15: it for your whole being. And so Protestanism is an
Speaker 15: intellectual gnostic position that thinks, like Muslims and Jews, that
Speaker 15: the salvation is through the paper of the book, when
Speaker 15: Ezekiel eats the book, which is a prediction of the Eucharist.
Speaker 15: Hence John six, all right, I see you were raising
Speaker 15: your hand.
Speaker 6: Hello, yep, jay, can you hear me?
Speaker 15: Yep?
Speaker 6: Hey? What's going going on? So?
Speaker 16: I am a catech human new Cateauman, but I was
Speaker 16: raised a Protestant, and for the last ten years I
Speaker 16: actually was in a charismatic church or Church, Charismatic group,
Speaker 16: and a big part of that, big part of the theology,
Speaker 16: I guess, is that you have to speak in tongues,
Speaker 16: and they have a they have a term that says
Speaker 16: the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of
Speaker 16: speaking in tongues. So you know that that for me
Speaker 16: was I grew up non to nom initially, and then
Speaker 16: so that for me was kind of like, whoa, this
Speaker 16: is different, this is wild. And then you look at
Speaker 16: the they say in Acts two you have the day
Speaker 16: of Pentecost, and then they come out speaking tongues. I
Speaker 16: always had a problem with that because the tongues and
Speaker 16: the Charismatic Church is like gibberish, and then the tongues
Speaker 16: in Acts two says that the people can hear their
Speaker 16: own language. So I always thought there was something weird
Speaker 16: about that. But I kind of just you know, you
Speaker 16: move along and you pursue God or.
Speaker 6: Whatever, and but then but then now, as a.
Speaker 16: Kind of human, you know, I I can easily accept Okay,
Speaker 16: that was the term zeno glossia as opposed to glossalia.
Speaker 16: But I'm seeing in Corinthians there's a part where Paul
Speaker 16: is talking about the gift of tongues in being used
Speaker 16: in worship, and that.
Speaker 15: It's just languages, bro, It's just languages. So it's translating
Speaker 15: the texts or the message the revelation into various languages,
Speaker 15: which is what is done in the Orthodox Church where
Speaker 15: everywhere they go they put it into the vernacular. It's
Speaker 15: not gibberish, there's no there's no secret angel language that
Speaker 15: charismatic heretics are doing.
Speaker 27: Wow.
Speaker 16: Okay, Okay, that that makes perfect sense.
Speaker 9: And I don't know why that was hard for me too.
Speaker 15: Yes, it's just it's literally just translating or having the
Speaker 15: gift of knowing and translating languages, or maybe even if
Speaker 15: you're not academic, like it could be like at Pentzeco,
Speaker 15: it's the miraculous event where the languages are understood, right right.
Speaker 6: Okay, cool?
Speaker 16: Yeah, So that was that was a bit kind of
Speaker 16: like a not a stumbling.
Speaker 9: Block for me, but just a question that I had.
Speaker 16: And I'll agree that things that you've been saying a
Speaker 16: lot of really good things already so far about Protestantism
Speaker 16: and how like, for instance, it's not the Bible is
Speaker 16: not like a study a study book that you take
Speaker 16: home and you read, and I feel like the like
Speaker 16: Protestants in me included, it's it's a matter of just
Speaker 16: almost like throwing.
Speaker 28: Away all these ways.
Speaker 16: That you read the Bible and you have to like
Speaker 16: redo the whole thing.
Speaker 9: It's really hard for.
Speaker 6: A lot of people to do that. But yeah, for me,
Speaker 6: as a coming from the.
Speaker 16: Charismatic Church, you know, there's a huge focus on like
Speaker 16: worshiping God and just pursuing God in like an unabandoned
Speaker 16: kind of way.
Speaker 6: So coming to Orthodoxy.
Speaker 9: Also was very easy for me too, because.
Speaker 16: I'm like, Okay, all of that stuff that I learned,
Speaker 16: I can just throw that away and just worship God
Speaker 16: and just focus on the liturgy. So would you say
Speaker 16: that the liturgy is the greatest way to learn Orthodoxy?
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean you're going to learn it when you
Speaker 15: attend and when you're in the that's the best categorizer.
Speaker 15: I mean, you'll have catechises too, but I mean the liturgy.
Speaker 15: The liturgy will teach you that theology in a very
Speaker 15: profound quick way if you pay attention.
Speaker 16: To it, right right, right, Okay, Well that was really
Speaker 16: just a big question that I had, what I've been
Speaker 16: thinking about for a while, So I appreciate it thank.
Speaker 15: You, sure, thank you. Yeah, those are good questions. I
Speaker 15: think a lot of people assume that the quote languages
Speaker 15: in First Corinthians are some sort of weird gibberish or
Speaker 15: secret Gnostic thing. I've seen some exegesis from the Orthodox
Speaker 15: perspective that Paul's talking about noetic prayer. So that's a possibility.
Speaker 15: But the sign of Pentecost, if you look back to Isaiah,
Speaker 15: I think it's Isaiah twenty let me see twenty two
Speaker 15: or twenty four, let me see. So when Pentecost happens,
Speaker 15: it's actually a fulfillment of a bunch of things in
Speaker 15: the Old Testament, not least of which is the feast
Speaker 15: of Towernacles and Pentecosts. Right, So in Isaiah twenty nine
Speaker 15: and twenty eight, depending on which I think this might
Speaker 15: differ in the masoretic versus the septuagen but twenty twenty
Speaker 15: nine you have mentions of the speaking in another language
Speaker 15: which will be assigned to the Jews. And Pentecost is
Speaker 15: the reversal of Babel, right, because you have the confusion
Speaker 15: of languages at the Tower Babbel Genesis ten, and then
Speaker 15: you have the reversal of which, by the way, is
Speaker 15: explaining the Orthodox liturgy. Pentecost is the reversal of Babel
Speaker 15: to bring everyone back together in unity. And it would
Speaker 15: make no sense if it's gibberish in Acts two. So
Speaker 15: the languages in Acts two have to be known, miraculous
Speaker 15: understanding of a bunch of people speaking different languages to
Speaker 15: be understood in one unified way. And that's the fulfillment
Speaker 15: of Isaiah twenty eight twenty nine that it's a sign
Speaker 15: to the Jews when you see this miraculous reversal of
Speaker 15: Babel and the language is being understood, that means it's
Speaker 15: not gibberish, unknown angel language stoic. So to the people
Speaker 15: talking smack in the chat, if you can't come defend
Speaker 15: your positions, then you're just wasting your times. It's not
Speaker 15: a place for you to spam. So we asked that
Speaker 15: you come to debate, don't lie, and so that you
Speaker 15: don't know what Twitter is or how to call in
Speaker 15: on Twitter. All you do is click into the room.
Speaker 15: There's the link right there. Otherwise, why are you wasting
Speaker 15: everybody's time? And I recognize your name, Kyle. You've been
Speaker 15: like I've been over here for a long I've seen
Speaker 15: your name for years? What do you what is this
Speaker 15: low tier crap that you're saying that you don't know
Speaker 15: how to call in on Twitter and that I'm I'm
Speaker 15: a Calvinist, Larking is Orthodox and this is like how
Speaker 15: many years do I have to be in the Orthodox
Speaker 15: Church before like people stop saying stupid shit like this.
Speaker 15: I mean it's like seven eight years. Come on, Stoic,
Speaker 15: what's up on you?
Speaker 6: Hey? Yeah, I was just calling in.
Speaker 29: I have some questions about Catholicism because so I actually
Speaker 29: grew up Eastern Orthodox, but I just so I have
Speaker 29: some people personally close to me that have kind of
Speaker 29: like bought into like.
Speaker 6: Hemism and you know, like bought into what.
Speaker 29: Palmism, you know, and like Roman Catholic doctor and in general.
Speaker 15: Well, let me ask you the first question. First question
Speaker 15: before you move on. Do you think that the modern
Speaker 15: Vatican has cared about Tomism for the last seventy eight years?
Speaker 5: No, not at all.
Speaker 29: Now, sure ahead, Yeah, I'm just curious, like when did
Speaker 29: the approach of like Roman Catholicism become so much more
Speaker 29: like legalistic than Eastern Christianity.
Speaker 15: I don't think there's one point. There's a kind of
Speaker 15: an ongoing evolution over time. As to why the Latin
Speaker 15: Church took on that attitude, you could look to the
Speaker 15: tendency in Rome itself to favor organizational structure and authority,
Speaker 15: whereas in the East, generally speaking, you had a much
Speaker 15: more metaphysically minded discussion. I mean, even the Roman poets
Speaker 15: and Roman philosophers are very practical and very interested in,
Speaker 15: you know, the imperium. If you look at the Stoics
Speaker 15: or if you look at Marcus Aurelius, they're not interested in
Speaker 15: a lot of metaphysical speculation. But if you go to
Speaker 15: the Greek mind, do you have a lot more metaphysics,
Speaker 15: a lot more you know, Plato aristotl discussing stuff that
Speaker 15: the Roman don't really care about. So I think that
Speaker 15: the Roman attitude and mind of organizational structure and legality
Speaker 15: played a key role in the formation and influence of
Speaker 15: the Western Church, the Latin Church. And then I think
Speaker 15: that after Augustine you get presuppositions in his theology that
Speaker 15: maybe he didn't himself necessarily hold to, but that over
Speaker 15: time led to more and more strict legalities. For example,
Speaker 15: all infants are damned because they're damned in atom everyone's
Speaker 15: in atom and so in the Augustinian position, there's this
Speaker 15: sort of legal attitude that everybody is an atom, as
Speaker 15: in an archetype, including all the future infants, and they're
Speaker 15: automatically de facto damned. It's called the mass dam nata doctrine.
Speaker 15: It's not even controversial. It's well known that he taught this.
Speaker 15: So those things develop over time, and then you eventually
Speaker 15: get things like and some satisfaction view which is influenced
Speaker 15: by some of these ideas, and then eventually you get
Speaker 15: you know, high tier just total dictatus pope, you know,
Speaker 15: unam Suncam you have to hold to, you know, all
Speaker 15: these legalities of the Western Latin system's view of the
Speaker 15: pope as a world emperor or else you're lost.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 29: Yeah, And I guess it's just really confusing because I
Speaker 29: was watching a live term reviewers from a Complete or
Speaker 29: last June when the papal was called the Bishop of
Speaker 29: Rome premiacy document came out that Yeah, and it's just
Speaker 29: really confusing because it seems like like the message and tone,
Speaker 29: like post was a post concilliar era just continues to
Speaker 29: do this thing where they act like they you know,
Speaker 29: they're continuing to be legalistic, but like, didn't what you
Speaker 29: just referenced about like infants being damned?
Speaker 6: Did they like backtrack on that?
Speaker 15: Yeah, if you read the new document from the Vatican
Speaker 15: on limbo from a few years ago, it says that
Speaker 15: you don't even have to believe that anymore.
Speaker 29: But how I don't get how they can keep like
Speaker 29: I don't want to, you know, the meme, like how
Speaker 29: do they keep getting away with this?
Speaker 15: Like because they pray on the but because it's a
Speaker 15: strong delusion that the followers won't be honest with themselves
Speaker 15: and they want to. I mean, there's all kinds of
Speaker 15: reasons why people don't leave it, but I mean a
Speaker 15: lot of people feel like they can solve the system
Speaker 15: or rescue it, and they take on this idiotic project
Speaker 15: of trying to make it all work and some sort
Speaker 15: of giant out like there will like they're goodwill hunting
Speaker 15: and they're Matt Damon, they're gonna walk in, you know,
Speaker 15: from being a janitor and like solve this giant papal
Speaker 15: nonsense equation on the math talkboard or whatever.
Speaker 29: Yeah, because like between that and then like with the
Speaker 29: whole legalistic approach, when when I heard you like talk
Speaker 29: about the monarchical you know, structure of the Trinity.
Speaker 6: I wouldn't.
Speaker 29: I wasn't very well kind of guys growing up Eastern Orthodox.
Speaker 29: I guess I'm grateful I was Orthodox.
Speaker 6: But like I just don't.
Speaker 29: I'm trying to understand how like what it seems like
Speaker 29: you're saying, there wasn't really an inflection point, but there's
Speaker 29: these things that maybe were understood for a long time
Speaker 29: in Eastern Orthodoxy that just changed at some point like overtime.
Speaker 29: Like like Saint Thomas Aquinas comes along, he talks about
Speaker 29: divine simplicity, makes a giant book, and then they just like.
Speaker 15: Jump shit or what No, I mean the trinitarian errors,
Speaker 15: original sin, like, all of the errors are not all
Speaker 15: at once. They take time to develop. So for example,
Speaker 15: the papacy doctrine as Vatican One frames it, even they
Speaker 15: themselves typically argue that it evolves. So when they're presented
Speaker 15: with these challenges, a lot of times they will appeal
Speaker 15: to doctrinal development, which just for them means that it's
Speaker 15: changing over time.
Speaker 29: It just feels like an like unfalsifiable position.
Speaker 15: No, that's exactly what the papacy is.
Speaker 6: It.
Speaker 15: It's in I mean like ninety percent of them argue
Speaker 15: in an unfalsifiable way. Anytime there's a problem, it's suddenly
Speaker 15: not binding in not ex cathedra. Uh and so yeah,
Speaker 15: anyway you go about it like they pick and choose
Speaker 15: like Protestants, which papal teachings they follow. So you know
Speaker 15: it's it's absolutely by the way, an unfalsifiable system is
Speaker 15: a sign that it's extremely weak.
Speaker 29: Yeah, you were talking about this, I think in that
Speaker 29: same lime stream live stream about the premacy document, and
Speaker 29: I just I was, I was laughing really hard at
Speaker 29: the whole, like wait for Vatican four, and wait for
Speaker 29: Vatican five, and wait for Vatican six, because when I
Speaker 29: was reading the documents, it seems like they just keep
Speaker 29: making the same statement. Will like, oh, when we looked
Speaker 29: it over again, even though we said we can't go
Speaker 29: back on previous understanding, we're gonna like casually do it.
Speaker 6: But gaslight in you thinking it's not the.
Speaker 15: Case, right, Yeah, absolutely, It's just so weird.
Speaker 6: I don't know, Well, Donna take much too much for
Speaker 6: your time. I appreciate it.
Speaker 30: I thought I was.
Speaker 29: I just felt like I was being gas lit by
Speaker 29: the like the inconsistencies.
Speaker 6: So I don't know. I just appreciate your stuff.
Speaker 15: Sure, yeah, you were being gas So that's uh, that's
Speaker 15: how they do their apologetics. Here's a trad Catholic. He's
Speaker 15: gonna watch him do that everything. I tried to turn
Speaker 15: the audio up, trad Cat, Are you there, I'm mute,
Speaker 15: trad Cat, I'm mute, and he ran away. So there
Speaker 15: you go. So there's your trad cats for you. Try again.
Speaker 15: I'm mute.
Speaker 6: Okay, now, yes, I couldn't hear you before.
Speaker 31: Can you hear me?
Speaker 15: Yep?
Speaker 6: I just had a question.
Speaker 32: What's your position on like the Rosary?
Speaker 15: I don't know. I mean Orthodox don't need it and
Speaker 15: probably shouldn't do it because usually the rosary is tied
Speaker 15: to Roman cally delusions like imaginative prayer and all this
Speaker 15: kind of stuff.
Speaker 6: What do you mean imaginative?
Speaker 15: I mean that's your own tradition. You're not aware of it.
Speaker 32: Like what you mean, like when you're like meditating on mysteries.
Speaker 15: Well, it's more than that, because it's part of the
Speaker 15: Jesuit tradition. It's part of what Alfonso's wory tells you
Speaker 15: to do, which is to imagine all these scenarios, imagine
Speaker 15: yourself in hell imagine all these things, and so that's
Speaker 15: we don't do that. We reject that delusion.
Speaker 6: But what what's like the harm in doing that?
Speaker 15: Because humans are susceptible to those kinds of delusions. For example,
Speaker 15: I've had heard countless Roman calviocs say, oh, I know,
Speaker 15: roma's also true because I was praying the Rosary and
Speaker 15: Mary appeared in my dreams and comforted me. I mean
Speaker 15: that's not a good reason to believe the religion.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I.
Speaker 32: Agree, But like I'm saying, like as a practice of faith,
Speaker 32: like or helping you like overcome sin and stuff like that, Like, wouldn't.
Speaker 6: That be good?
Speaker 15: No, imaginative prayer is not part of our tradition, So
Speaker 15: it doesn't achieve the purification of the passion or the
Speaker 15: news or anything like that. In fact, it encourages delusion
Speaker 15: and pre list.
Speaker 32: So then how would you like word towards singing lesson
Speaker 32: stuff like that?
Speaker 6: What would you do then?
Speaker 15: Through the entire ethos of the Orthodox Church?
Speaker 6: Like, can you give me some examples?
Speaker 15: Yeah, Well, we have asceticism, we have attendants at the liturgy, confession, Eucharist,
Speaker 15: all those things.
Speaker 32: So the Eos believe in translo right, in what transistentiation.
Speaker 15: We believe in the real presence and that it's really
Speaker 15: a participation in the uncreated grace. But we don't have
Speaker 15: the Roman Catholic position that you're eating a created divine substance.
Speaker 6: A creative divine substance.
Speaker 32: Yeah, I don't think that's what the Catholics believe.
Speaker 15: Well, you don't need the essence of God, right, No, okay,
Speaker 15: so what do you eat the body?
Speaker 32: Well, actually it says that we eat the body's soul
Speaker 32: and divinity.
Speaker 15: And what's the divinity? You don't believe in the essence
Speaker 15: inary sanctions? So what's the divinity?
Speaker 6: Uh to say, I'm not sure then, yeah.
Speaker 15: Because it's a created substantial or created accident.
Speaker 32: It's like it's like created grace or something.
Speaker 15: Correct, So is there created God?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 15: Well you just said you eat divinity. Now you're saying
Speaker 15: it's a created God, but that didn't exist, which one
Speaker 15: is it?
Speaker 8: Uh?
Speaker 6: Wait?
Speaker 32: But how does like having like created grace or something,
Speaker 32: and you're that that's like a created God.
Speaker 15: You literally just said that in the Eucharist you partake
Speaker 15: a body, blood, soul, and divinity. I asked you what
Speaker 15: the divinity is? You said that it's not the essence
Speaker 15: of God.
Speaker 6: Huh, it would be a created grace.
Speaker 15: Is a created grace a creature?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 15: No, so there's uncreated creatures.
Speaker 6: What do you mean a creature?
Speaker 15: Like you just called it created. You don't know what
Speaker 15: created means.
Speaker 32: Yeah, but like you're saying it like it's like a
Speaker 32: person or something.
Speaker 15: Okay, no idea what you're talking about. You don't even
Speaker 15: know your own traditions, terminology discussion. Calling it a creature
Speaker 15: is calling it a person. Wow, there's a romanchaolics for you,
Speaker 15: trad cats baby meta.
Speaker 33: Hello, yep, Hey Jay, So I was watching your debate
Speaker 33: with Matt dyl a monkey as you like to call him,
Speaker 33: and I was just curious on one of the debate
Speaker 33: points that you guys are discussing. So essentially, I guess
Speaker 33: whenever it went to like the conclusive part of the debate,
Speaker 33: wherever he was saying he doesn't have to have a
Speaker 33: justification for these fundamental, fundamental metaphysical claims. So how is
Speaker 33: that different from like positing that God exists?
Speaker 15: Because the argument was giving a justification for why I
Speaker 15: can say that God exists. I wasn't just saying God exists,
Speaker 15: therefore it is. My argument was that if Matt doesn't
Speaker 15: have to give a justification, then I don't.
Speaker 33: So then that puts you guys on the same plane essentially.
Speaker 15: Well, it's pointing out that he wouldn't accept that line
Speaker 15: of argumentation, So why should I accept that from him
Speaker 15: in a debate?
Speaker 6: Oh? Interesting, Okay, that's pretty much what I want.
Speaker 15: Yeah, no, it's it's a good question. I haven't actually
Speaker 15: listened to that debate a long time, so maybe I
Speaker 15: should go back and review, like an old debate like that. George,
Speaker 15: Matt doesn't even know that emergent properties, as Father Deacon
Speaker 15: and Ias has pointed out, do not aid materialism in
Speaker 15: any way. Emergent properties arose as a theory against materialism,
Speaker 15: but Matt doesn't even know that. George, mister Dyer.
Speaker 6: Thank you for having me up. I have a friend
Speaker 6: who's an Anglican priest. He's agreed to debate you, but
Speaker 6: he prefers to do it in a formal space. He
Speaker 6: sort of doesn't want to be moderated. Would you fire
Speaker 6: me a DM and I'll just introduce you and you too.
Speaker 15: Who is it?
Speaker 6: His name is Father James and he's on here.
Speaker 17: He doesn't have James.
Speaker 6: His last name is not on his profile. I'm sure
Speaker 6: he would be happy to give you all his information.
Speaker 15: Well, there's a certain angl can I know that I'm
Speaker 15: not interested in debating. So I'm trying to figure out
Speaker 15: that was him, But I don't think it is. Does he?
Speaker 15: How big is his following? And what what would I
Speaker 15: get out of this?
Speaker 6: All right, so he's going to fall small, small following.
Speaker 15: Not interested? Thank you appreciate it. S no, anybody not
Speaker 15: trying to be rude, but I don't do formal debates
Speaker 15: with anybody who has small following. So that's what the
Speaker 15: Twitter spaces are for. If you want to come to debate,
Speaker 15: anybody can do that. Uh, let's see, where's that guy
Speaker 15: that was begging to be let back in here? Data boy?
Speaker 15: So do we have any Protestants? I know we've got
Speaker 15: a lot of people asking Orthodox questions, which is fine,
Speaker 15: but I'm looking for Protestants who disagree. O cay see one?
Speaker 15: Anybody else? Raise your hand if you're a Protestant who
Speaker 15: wants to come to the front line. We got sick
Speaker 15: Steen people in London. What's up? Okay? I see one
Speaker 15: and then we'll go to this ex Muslim guy, and
Speaker 15: then we'll go to Jordan. Okay, ex Muslim. What's up?
Speaker 15: By the way, mods, if you would debate that Kyle guy,
Speaker 15: if if he won't come to by, just boot him.
Speaker 15: He's wasting everybody's time. I don't know if he left
Speaker 15: or what. But it's just like, there's nothing weaker than
Speaker 15: like popping in here to talk about how you're a
Speaker 15: bad person. And by the way, I can't debate out here.
Speaker 15: By what's up? I'm yeah, man, why are you raising
Speaker 15: your hand? You're you're on the thing?
Speaker 6: Yes, shotum, and greetings to all of you. My name
Speaker 6: is Ramin. I'm a former Muslim and a Christian.
Speaker 34: Now he can put me in the category of a Protestant,
Speaker 34: but I try not to basically put myself in a
Speaker 34: category because the Bible doesn't say if you're a Protestant
Speaker 34: or Catholic or art buct will be saved. It says
Speaker 34: you must be born again.
Speaker 15: Now, But what does that mean because the rest of
Speaker 15: the New Testament texts talk about that being baptism.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well born again is we have three kinds of
Speaker 6: death in the Bible.
Speaker 34: When is it physical death, spiritual death, and eternal death?
Speaker 6: Which is also called second death.
Speaker 15: So that what does it have to do with baptism.
Speaker 6: What I just said, baptism is an outer outer.
Speaker 15: You're just repeating Protestant Baptist doctrines. And I'm telling you
Speaker 15: in Titus three five, it's called the washing of the
Speaker 15: labor regeneration.
Speaker 6: Yes, but that's in this speit's what happened.
Speaker 15: How do you know that? You're just asserting that when
Speaker 15: Paul doesn't make that distinction. How do you know that
Speaker 15: every time Paul talks about baptism is quote spiritual, Well.
Speaker 34: The baptism was an outer confession.
Speaker 15: You're just restating the question I'm asking you, how do
Speaker 15: you know that that's what Paul means and all those
Speaker 15: passages about.
Speaker 6: Baptism, because it's all over the Bible.
Speaker 15: So the answer is it's all over when that's the
Speaker 15: thing I'm asking you. So in other words, so why
Speaker 15: what are you for the third time going to just
Speaker 15: tell me your interpretation again?
Speaker 6: No, it's not my interpretation. Is what the Bible says.
Speaker 15: That's what you're saying, That's what the Bible says, And
Speaker 15: I'm saying no. In John three, I think Jesus is
Speaker 15: talking about water baptism, and that's why Acts too. Peter says,
Speaker 15: repent and be baptized for the remission of sins? Is
Speaker 15: it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine?
Speaker 6: What the bone again happens?
Speaker 15: Is it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine. Yes,
Speaker 15: oh it is. But that's where he says, is the
Speaker 15: remission of sins?
Speaker 34: No, the remission of sins, it doesn't happen with Washington
Speaker 34: the water.
Speaker 15: It literally says that in Act two thirty eight thirty nine.
Speaker 34: No, nobody gets saved by being baptizing the water.
Speaker 15: That's your Yeah, please keep us starting the Protestant doctrine,
Speaker 15: which is what I'm challenging, which you said it is
Speaker 15: water baptism in actually thirty eight and thirty nine. And
Speaker 15: he says that that is the remission of sentence.
Speaker 6: But listen, when I became a believer, I.
Speaker 15: This is your subjective interpretation. I don't. It doesn't matter
Speaker 15: what you what your personal experience was.
Speaker 34: No, I'm telling you right now there are tens of
Speaker 34: thousands of Iranians who have become believers in Jesus and
Speaker 34: they are not able to get baptized because in Iran,
Speaker 34: there's not possibility to get arrested or but they love
Speaker 34: the Lord and they're not even baptized, but they're born again,
Speaker 34: they're full of.
Speaker 6: The Holy space.
Speaker 15: Let's just bag in the question. I mean, they may
Speaker 15: be in God's mind and that's fine, but the normative
Speaker 15: means by which we do this is said to be
Speaker 15: multiple times throughout the New Testament, actual baptism. So you're
Speaker 15: just assuming Protestantism, which is the very thing that I'm
Speaker 15: questioning about. So how do you prove Protestantism to me?
Speaker 34: Well, as I said, I'm not a Protestant, was a basically, you.
Speaker 15: Are a Protestant. Why are you acting like you're not? Okay, evangelical?
Speaker 15: Is that better?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 34: So basically what happened with the Protestantism Martin Luther, it
Speaker 34: was a protest against Catholic system of you know, justification
Speaker 34: by works.
Speaker 6: And unaware on faith plus works. And what all Protestant
Speaker 6: was was no.
Speaker 15: Again, I don't need to I know the history of
Speaker 15: the Pross and Reformation. I'm not trying to be rude
Speaker 15: to you, but I'm asking you about evangelicalism, which is
Speaker 15: what you're part of, and I'm asking you, why should
Speaker 15: we accept evangelicalism.
Speaker 34: I guess it's not evangelicalism, it's being.
Speaker 15: Or being dishonest because you just admitted that you weren't
Speaker 15: evangelical like two minutes ago.
Speaker 34: Yeah, evangelical? What is evangelical?
Speaker 6: The Christians?
Speaker 15: I'm not going to argue with you over terms. Where
Speaker 15: do you get your Bible from?
Speaker 6: What do you mean? What am I going about?
Speaker 15: Where do you get the Bible from? Did it just
Speaker 15: fall out of the air into Iran?
Speaker 6: No? I actually run is illegal to a Bible. So
Speaker 6: I don't live in your own now. I live in Israel.
Speaker 34: But when I when I became a believer, I served
Speaker 34: for a Bible for three months.
Speaker 6: I find one.
Speaker 15: We're moving on, not falling for that. Jordan Jordan, Michael Jordan,
Speaker 15: I'm mute. We can't hear you, dude. I don't know
Speaker 15: if you don't know, didn't turn your mic on or what?
Speaker 15: But you want to come back, turn your mic on
Speaker 15: and come back, We'll go to you. All right. Let's see,
Speaker 15: I thought I was supposed to unmute this, unblock this
Speaker 15: guy who he hasn't showed up. So see this is
Speaker 15: what I'm saying, Like when I block people. It's usually
Speaker 15: for a good reason, and then when they want to
Speaker 15: be unblocked, they don't come in debate because that's what
Speaker 15: they said they wanted.
Speaker 17: Here we go go ahead.
Speaker 9: Hello, okay, okay, I'll teach you later.
Speaker 6: Oh sorry, I'll be with you in one minute.
Speaker 15: Okay, bring your mom on to debate. She'll probably did
Speaker 15: about in't you. We got a trad cat whose mom's
Speaker 15: fustin at him because he won't get off the computer
Speaker 15: in the basement. He's used up his computer time in
Speaker 15: the basement, So bring your mom on to debate.
Speaker 6: Sorry about that.
Speaker 15: Your mom a debate better than you want you to
Speaker 15: bring her on.
Speaker 9: Oh hey, ja, I tried connecting a few weeks ago,
Speaker 9: but I was having computer issues.
Speaker 28: Sorry about that.
Speaker 15: Did your mom let you stay on longer this time?
Speaker 9: That wasn't my mom, that was someone else?
Speaker 6: Okay, go ahead. So I am Catholic.
Speaker 9: I think I said that on one of my previous
Speaker 9: previous appearances. So I definitely do believe in, like, you know,
Speaker 9: continuity with the ancient Church and Apostolic succession and all that.
Speaker 6: I should say.
Speaker 9: That I was baptized Catholic. I went to a Presbyterian
Speaker 9: church for a little bit when I was like nine,
Speaker 9: and I got confirmed Catholic as a teenager. So that's
Speaker 9: my background.
Speaker 6: I guess you could say, Okay, so.
Speaker 9: I'm not Protestant as you know, and I do believe
Speaker 9: in Apostolic succession, and I don't believe in like you know,
Speaker 9: I don't believe you know when like set of Acantism or.
Speaker 17: Any anything like that.
Speaker 9: I think those intellectual positions are untenable. So I take
Speaker 9: it you as an Orthodox Christian, you have your own
Speaker 9: ways to debunk, say, like the old calendarists and like
Speaker 9: the quote unquote genuine orthodox.
Speaker 15: I don't know about my own way, but I have, uh.
Speaker 15: I mean, David Rhan made a whole video that's pretty
Speaker 15: good on this about the legalistic it's actually a Western
Speaker 15: mindset that every all the grace is shut off or
Speaker 15: something like that. I mean, what about it? What is it?
Speaker 15: I mean, what is that going to prove against? Like
Speaker 15: I mean, so that'd be like me saying, well, you
Speaker 15: have a set of a contest so Roman Catholicism is false,
Speaker 15: Like how does that prove or disprove anything?
Speaker 9: I would I was just asking what your thoughts on
Speaker 9: like the old calendar.
Speaker 15: Well, most many old calendars are. Also. My church is
Speaker 15: on the old calendar.
Speaker 6: So well, I know that Rokor.
Speaker 15: I know that.
Speaker 9: The Russian Orthodox Church and the Serbian Orthodox Church and
Speaker 9: the Georgian Orthodox Church all used the old calendar liturgically,
Speaker 9: mm hmm, but I know some of the other countries
Speaker 9: that they used the reformed Julian calendar. There was a
Speaker 9: schism in like the twenties or something.
Speaker 15: I mean, I would argue that if the church is
Speaker 15: not canonical, then that's really not a church. And I
Speaker 15: don't know of any time in history where we were
Speaker 15: supposed to go to a non canonical church. So the
Speaker 15: creation of a parallel ecclesiology to me doesn't make sense.
Speaker 9: Okay, that definitely does make sense. I do have some
Speaker 9: questions about Augustine and how his philosophy shaped the Catholic Church.
Speaker 9: You would talk about this a little earlier, so I
Speaker 9: do know about Augustine's doctrine of original sin. How the
Speaker 9: Orthodox don't accept that. They call it ancestral sin. If
Speaker 9: I'm not mistaken now, I know that I'm pretty sure
Speaker 9: the Council of Trent said that humans, all humans, are
Speaker 9: guilty of Adam's sin.
Speaker 28: But if I'm not.
Speaker 9: Mistaken, the current Catholic catechism is more takes a position
Speaker 9: that's more similar to the Orthodox position, and they say
Speaker 9: that humans are no longer that is correct, guilty of
Speaker 9: adam sin.
Speaker 15: Right, Yeah, the modern Roman Catholic position is much closer
Speaker 15: to the Orthodox position distinguishes actual sin from original sin.
Speaker 15: I mean that actually goes back to the Middle Ages
Speaker 15: where even when infant limbo was mentioned in the early
Speaker 15: Middle Ages, that was attended with the idea that there's
Speaker 15: a distinction between the deprivation of grace and original sin
Speaker 15: versus personal guilt, which comes about through actual sin. So
Speaker 15: infants did not have personal guilt, but they did have
Speaker 15: the effects of this of the fall, which was the
Speaker 15: deprivation of grace and so forth, hence why we baptize infants.
Speaker 15: And the Orthodox we would agree with that, but we
Speaker 15: also would argue that there was still the strand and
Speaker 15: the paint of the notion that sin is in some
Speaker 15: way passed on in an actual guilt way through seminal transmission,
Speaker 15: which is something that we would disagree with. Sin is
Speaker 15: not transmitted, but the effects of the fall are transmitted.
Speaker 15: So that's why you get the recent Vatican statement on
Speaker 15: all this that it did evolve over time in the
Speaker 15: Romancalthoy position nowadays is not what it was in the
Speaker 15: West in the fifth sixth seventh century.
Speaker 9: Did this change with Vatican two or was it before that?
Speaker 15: Well, I would say Vatican two played a role in it,
Speaker 15: because Vatican two did attempt to bring in so called
Speaker 15: quote voices and inspiration from the East. There were a
Speaker 15: lot of periti at Vatican two, like Hans Wor's on Balthazar,
Speaker 15: who were very influenced by Eastern theology, so that could
Speaker 15: play a role. But the Vatican statement on Limbo was
Speaker 15: not that long ago, so it was a post Vatican.
Speaker 9: Two okay, And that's the one you were talking about
Speaker 9: earlier that said infants aren't damned?
Speaker 15: Correct, Well, this is why. Yeah, it's uh, let's see
Speaker 15: when did this come out? Pulling it up there, I
Speaker 15: highly recommend people interested in this topic should read it.
Speaker 15: Doesn't have a date on it, so I'm not sure
Speaker 15: when this comes. When this came out, but it's called
Speaker 15: the Hope for Salvation of Infants who die without being baptized.
Speaker 15: This was a CDF document. I think under rat Singer
Speaker 15: it might have been under John Paul. I don't recall.
Speaker 9: Speaking of baptism the last guy who came on here.
Speaker 9: I know in the Catholic Church there's this concept of
Speaker 9: baptism by blood and baptism by desire, which are kind
Speaker 9: of like the non normative means someone would.
Speaker 15: Be Yeah, I mean that's true. We believe in that
Speaker 15: in the Orthodox Church.
Speaker 6: Two.
Speaker 9: Okay, so that's in the Orthodox tradition as well.
Speaker 15: Yeah, and now if we had gotten further in that discussion, I'm.
Speaker 9: Sure you know about the Catholic heresy of Foeneism.
Speaker 15: Was a big fan of Father Phenie at one time.
Speaker 9: Yeah. Well, basically the Catholic Church doesn't quld to that
Speaker 9: position obviously. But I do have another question about something
Speaker 9: that was brought up earlier. I think it was with
Speaker 9: I think we're talking about Protestant mariology. And I noticed
Speaker 9: a lot of evangelicals online are very adamant that Mary
Speaker 9: had to have had other children and had to have
Speaker 9: had relations with Joseph, and that was a Catholic I,
Speaker 9: of course believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Did
Speaker 9: this idea that he had to have had other children
Speaker 9: or had to have you know, had relations with Joseph.
Speaker 9: Is this something that comes from like higher biblical criticism.
Speaker 15: Well, it was proposed by Helvidius in the days of Jerome,
Speaker 15: So I mean it's not it's not a new idea,
Speaker 15: but it's very possible that more recent higher critical scholars
Speaker 15: also probably promoted that idea.
Speaker 9: I do know about Helvidius, and I believe Saint Jerome.
Speaker 6: Wrote a work.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean his views in three D three a
Speaker 9: D if I'm not.
Speaker 15: Mistaken, Yeah, it pulled up.
Speaker 9: Yes, So another question, because I do know about the
Speaker 9: higher criticism that came out of I'm sure you know
Speaker 9: about people like.
Speaker 28: Adolf von Harnak and what was.
Speaker 15: That other guy, Julius. There's that other guy, uh schlier Marker.
Speaker 15: There's a whole bunch of them.
Speaker 9: Schlier Marker, that Friedrich Schleiermacher. That's why I was thinking of.
Speaker 9: And then there was a lot of big Boltmann. He
Speaker 9: was a more contemporary Rudolph Boltmant. Rudolph Boltmann, my bad,
Speaker 9: but I know this is one of the.
Speaker 27: I know this.
Speaker 9: You argue against Protestants a lot that Luther taking out
Speaker 9: the wanting to take out the Epistle of James and
Speaker 9: some other books led to this, you know, deconstruction.
Speaker 6: Of the canon.
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think that you can definitely trace higher criticism
Speaker 15: to Luther. I mean, I don't think Luther is the
Speaker 15: only influence, but he's a major influence in Germany for
Speaker 15: the idea that the Bible is not a book that's
Speaker 15: owned and possessed and the purview of the church. It's
Speaker 15: now in the hands of the secular academics to dissect
Speaker 15: and to tell us who the Bible really belongs to
Speaker 15: and what the text really are. And I would say
Speaker 15: if you look at somebody like wes Huff, like, I'm
Speaker 15: again glad that wes Huff refuted that black pyramid space bro.
Speaker 15: But I mean, the very thing that wes Huff is
Speaker 15: arguing for, ironically, is the idea that the academics are
Speaker 15: the ones that are going to preserve and tell us
Speaker 15: what the true texts of the Bible are. Is the
Speaker 15: very thing that led to the higher critical scholarship dissecting
Speaker 15: and destroying the Bible.
Speaker 9: This is the guy who was on Joe Rogan recently, right, Yeah,
Speaker 9: he's a Calvinist, isn't he.
Speaker 15: I know he's a Protestant of some comment. I don't
Speaker 15: know what his saturial.
Speaker 9: I think he has made some criticisms of Catholicism.
Speaker 6: I don't know if he has of Orthodoxy.
Speaker 15: Yeah, he has, He's obviously he's critical of them both.
Speaker 15: I mean, he's a committed Protestant of some of some sort.
Speaker 9: Oh are you going to debate him at any point?
Speaker 15: Or well, I've offered, but he says that he's not
Speaker 15: in a place where he's ready to do any more debates,
Speaker 15: So I don't think it'll ever happen. But I'm i
Speaker 15: put out of video saying that I'm more than happy
Speaker 15: to debate him.
Speaker 9: Okay, I haven't watched the Joe Rogan episode with him,
Speaker 9: but I might because I'm kind of interested to hear
Speaker 9: what he says. But I do notice that a lot
Speaker 9: of Protestants have this very individual, individualistic view of the Bible, like.
Speaker 6: It's just in yeah, in my bedroom.
Speaker 15: Well that's called the right, that's called the right of
Speaker 15: private interpretation, and that was actually one of the core
Speaker 15: historic doctrines of the Protestant Reformers.
Speaker 29: So yeah, yeah, are you familiar with this?
Speaker 6: This website?
Speaker 9: It's kind of like non are you familiar with this,
Speaker 9: like non denominational Christian website questions.
Speaker 15: I've seen it, Papa, but I'm not familiar with it.
Speaker 15: But hey, appreciate you coming on. Thank you for being
Speaker 15: a good nature guy. About the jokes. We like to
Speaker 15: have fun over here. Dang, we got twenty almost twenty
Speaker 15: five people in line. So today I'm taking giving a
Speaker 15: precedent to Protestants who disagree. If you're a Protestant disagrees,
Speaker 15: raise your hand. You can ask questions, but if you
Speaker 15: would like to debate, please keep it to making arguments.
Speaker 15: That means that you actually give the basis for your position.
Speaker 15: You don't just keep asserting your position over and overhere,
Speaker 15: you tell us why your position's true. So hopefully you
Speaker 15: have some idea about what it means to make an argument.
Speaker 15: Not trying to be rude to you. Let's see somebody's
Speaker 15: raising their hand. We've got so many people in here.
Speaker 15: Let's see King's fool. Okay, so this is the guy unmuted,
Speaker 15: Go ahead, howdy.
Speaker 35: So you made a video a while back talking about
Speaker 35: Protestism and criticizing them a bit, and this open debate
Speaker 35: performed plat format that you do and three issues you
Speaker 35: said you stayed with. It was it was a historical.
Speaker 35: It was anti sacramental, anti mystical, and just flat out dumb. Yes,
Speaker 35: the problem that I have with that is specifically a
Speaker 35: historical and the issues I have with that, and some
Speaker 35: of the issues you gave for why protestant is antihistorical
Speaker 35: was they don't follow the liturgical warship properly. They don't
Speaker 35: do certain customs and traditions that were practiced by the
Speaker 35: early Church, and don't have the exact same pieces of scripture.
Speaker 6: Some example.
Speaker 15: Those are some examples. There could be many more listed.
Speaker 35: Sure, And the issue I have with that, if Protestantism
Speaker 35: is a historical by those, I would say, so is Orthodoxy.
Speaker 15: And how is that?
Speaker 27: Well?
Speaker 35: For starters Constantinople fell in fourteen fifty three.
Speaker 15: You can't be serious that this is an argument, that
Speaker 15: you think this is an argument.
Speaker 28: It's just it's the start of one.
Speaker 15: Yeah, what does this have to do with the theology.
Speaker 15: This is why I block this guy, because this is
Speaker 15: too too dumb. I mean, are you the synoticon of Orthodoxy?
Speaker 36: Yeah?
Speaker 35: Because I believe in the sonoticon of Orthodoxy. In one
Speaker 35: of the statements you give Thanksgiving, and that is the
Speaker 35: glorification and of the defenders of Orthodoxy might not mistaken.
Speaker 15: Probably, I don't remember. It's a giant text.
Speaker 35: It's a giant text that's different among different branches of Orthodoxy.
Speaker 15: Right because different bishops can add their own personal For example,
Speaker 15: Metropolitan Seraphim a Pereas adds the Joe's witnesses to the
Speaker 15: condom name texture.
Speaker 35: And the problem I have with that is the statement
Speaker 35: of the defender of Orthodoxy, which originally within the church
Speaker 35: was the Holy Roman Emperor, as was stated by Anthony,
Speaker 35: Patriarch of Constantinople in thirteen ninety three to a to
Speaker 35: a letter to Basle the First, the Grand Prince of Moscow, saying,
Speaker 35: my son, it is not possible for Christians to have
Speaker 35: a church and not have an emperor.
Speaker 28: Church and Empire have a great.
Speaker 6: Unity and community.
Speaker 35: It is not possible for them to be separated from
Speaker 35: one another. For the Holy Emperor is not as other
Speaker 35: rulers and the governors of other regions.
Speaker 28: And this is because the emperors from.
Speaker 35: The beginning establish and confirmed true religion Eustia in all
Speaker 35: inhabited world Okiomennia.
Speaker 28: They convoke the Yeah, I don't know to pronounce.
Speaker 15: The word obviously, and so orthodoxy is false because z
Speaker 15: Antium fell.
Speaker 28: I mean, it's not just that Bonantium fell.
Speaker 15: Puppet all right, Now we see why I booted this guy,
Speaker 15: and I was right to boot that guy. This is
Speaker 15: too stupid to even entertain. So, guys, I know you
Speaker 15: want entertainment, but when you asked me to bring back
Speaker 15: Banantium and these kinds of goofballs, it's usually because they're
Speaker 15: booted for a reason. So let's get on my banana
Speaker 15: phone and let's call up Banantium and let's talk to
Speaker 15: the Bananatine emperor and see if we can get any
Speaker 15: history about why he's not ruling on an earthly throne
Speaker 15: to help ensure Banantium. Hello, Hello, Can anyone else call
Speaker 15: in the banana phone and see if they can get
Speaker 15: the Bananantine Emperor? Hello? I just hear monkey is chirping.
Speaker 15: I think I called the Matt Dillon monkey line accidentally.
Speaker 15: I got Matt Dolamuchi on speed dial. True, byzantium fell.
Speaker 15: I don't know if you guys knew this, but byzantium fell,
Speaker 15: So time to pack it up. Wortho, bros. Your religion's dead.
Speaker 15: I don't where is bumpkin? He keeps thumbing down, like
Speaker 15: fifty times in a row. Do you want to come on? Dude?
Speaker 15: I don't understand what your what's your mental illness is?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 15: Where are you at, Bumpkin? I mean, are you not
Speaker 15: in the line to speak? You just want to thumb down?
Speaker 15: This is so stupid. Look, uh, just to like me
Speaker 15: as Byzantine Emperor of the Banana Tine Emperor of the
Speaker 15: are you'll cool ya mine and the problem solved? Bro Okay, Bumpkin.
Speaker 15: If you're not gonna come on to debate, then you're
Speaker 15: just clogging up with all of your memes, I mean,
Speaker 15: your emojis, so you're wasting everybody's time, by the way
Speaker 15: I would. I don't even want to live in the
Speaker 15: Byzantine Emperor Empire. I want to live in the Banana
Speaker 15: teen Emperor Empire, the Banana teen Empire where we're all
Speaker 15: matt Dela monkeys. Go ahead, Hello?
Speaker 6: Hello?
Speaker 28: No, no, sorry? Hello?
Speaker 6: Can you hear me?
Speaker 15: Yes?
Speaker 6: What the fuck is that?
Speaker 15: That's me? Bro?
Speaker 6: Oh, you're making point of how I speak.
Speaker 15: I do impressions. I do them all the time.
Speaker 6: That's not very Christian, is Oh?
Speaker 15: Here we go? That's a pious of you to point
Speaker 15: out how impressions are not Christian.
Speaker 6: That's not very christ like now, is it?
Speaker 17: Okay?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 8: Well, have you ever had a psychedelic experience?
Speaker 15: Oh, he's getting even even deeper. Were you praying while
Speaker 15: you were on your psychedelic experience? Was it mystical?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 15: I mean, are you praying for me?
Speaker 17: Now?
Speaker 6: Well? You know, basically Hell is real? You know that, right?
Speaker 6: Hell is real?
Speaker 15: Are you looking forward to me going there?
Speaker 6: No? You know that Tibetans are right. Basically reincarnations.
Speaker 15: Have an actual lunatic here.
Speaker 6: Do you know that?
Speaker 15: Good job, dude? It never fails that when the people
Speaker 15: are super pious and they want to talk about you
Speaker 15: christ like that, they're it's you got. The entertainment is
Speaker 15: about the flow. Cost Listen, I'm having fun today. I
Speaker 15: don't care. It's all good. The Tibetans are right. You
Speaker 15: go to hell, but you get reincarnated. What am I
Speaker 15: coming back as, hopefully as a banana teen emperor of
Speaker 15: the Banana Empire? What's up?
Speaker 17: Man?
Speaker 15: I'm mute? Cost? Is you a BHR bro? I'm mute?
Speaker 6: You're here all right? Ju is it me?
Speaker 15: I'm I up? Yes, sir?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 9: Just a few questions I've only heard you one time.
Speaker 6: In another space.
Speaker 37: But what are your thoughts on uh, positive Christianity and
Speaker 37: national socialism?
Speaker 15: Positive Christianity. I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 6: Okay, we could we could skip that. I could I
Speaker 6: send you some links.
Speaker 38: It's essentially the type of Christianity that the National Socialist
Speaker 38: wan attenstedt.
Speaker 15: Here we go, Here comes the Feds. Good job moving on,
Speaker 15: Here come the Feds. I'm mute, dude, just kidding. Who
Speaker 15: who's up next? We're on a roll here with quack
Speaker 15: a doodles quack a doodle do. Okay, where's this bumpkin dude?
Speaker 15: Because all he does is thumb down and it's like
Speaker 15: clogging up my screen. So where are you wasting this?
Speaker 15: You just wasting time? Dog, bumpkin? Are you gonna come
Speaker 15: to date otherwise? Immediately you first out the block and
Speaker 15: get rid of that other dude.
Speaker 39: Hey, Yet the start of the stream, he said that
Speaker 39: a high taper faid was out of the style, A
Speaker 39: high taper faid. Yes, And if you think that in
Speaker 39: your orthodox I mean you're their best guy.
Speaker 6: So like, if you get.
Speaker 39: That wrong, how much else you gonna get wrong? Me
Speaker 39: and my Protestant buddies. We got some high taper fates, so.
Speaker 15: I knew what would hit you below the belt and
Speaker 15: raw you up.
Speaker 6: It was brutal. It was brutal.
Speaker 15: I mean, are you Are you sucking on I p
Speaker 15: A right now too? Yes, sir, you guys come out
Speaker 15: of a factory dog. Yes, what's what's on your mind?
Speaker 6: Oh? No, that does all I have to say. I
Speaker 6: just wanted to do.
Speaker 15: That's all you had. I thought you were going to
Speaker 15: come with some heat, dude.
Speaker 6: I mean I don't have that much heat. You know.
Speaker 15: It's like, well, if you keep drinking those I pas,
Speaker 15: you will you can be sweating because you're going to
Speaker 15: be a man boob, a big old man bob. But
Speaker 15: we're on a roll today. Actually, that guy, I like
Speaker 15: that guy. That was funny. What good grief? We got
Speaker 15: like twenty three people. Now today is feral. We got
Speaker 15: feral people on here. Who's up next? Max?
Speaker 6: There we go.
Speaker 15: You know, those feral days are the funnest because they're
Speaker 15: the most entertaining to Jay.
Speaker 9: I swear you've been ignoring me for like the.
Speaker 15: Past hour, But it's because I'm scared. That's why I
Speaker 15: have no no idea who you are you're a blank profile,
Speaker 15: but I sensed that the blank profile would destroy me,
Speaker 15: So I'm super scared of you.
Speaker 6: Actually, i'm scared of you.
Speaker 22: I've seen you debate people like Madala HUNTI and really
Speaker 22: really smart atheist.
Speaker 6: Like.
Speaker 22: Pretty intimidating guy. But I'm not a Christian. I'm not
Speaker 22: a Protestant or a Catholic. I'm an I'm an atheist agnostic,
Speaker 22: and I actually have a verse that will either make
Speaker 22: or break Christianity. And I post it in the chat
Speaker 22: section of this space. If you want to click on
Speaker 22: that button there and show.
Speaker 15: Your audience, why don't you just read it?
Speaker 9: Well, I think it'd be better if they could.
Speaker 6: All see it.
Speaker 15: What's the verse?
Speaker 9: Revelation sixteen twelve.
Speaker 15: All right, I'll pull it up here.
Speaker 22: We actually, I think it's Revelation six twelve. It's either
Speaker 22: Revelation sixteen twelve or Revelation six twelve.
Speaker 9: The move to talks about the phrase river dry up.
Speaker 15: So you don't even know, but you're gonna bibble scholaris here.
Speaker 9: Well, no, I know, I know which.
Speaker 15: It's not six and it's not sixteen too, So you
Speaker 15: don't even know the verses that you're gonna okay.
Speaker 28: It's sixteen, it's sixteen.
Speaker 6: No, it's sixteen twelve.
Speaker 15: Okay, or wasting everybody's time.
Speaker 22: No, no, no, And it says Andy six Angel Poorta
Speaker 22: is vile upon the Gray Phraates and the water there
Speaker 22: was dried up that way, that the way that the
Speaker 22: Kings of the East might be prepared, And basically the
Speaker 22: phrase river is predicted to dry up in twenty forty.
Speaker 22: So if this doesn't happen, then Christianity will be confirmed.
Speaker 15: As a false throne. You're so stupid, dude. I can't
Speaker 15: even handle like the idiocy of this. I don't believe
Speaker 15: that this is a future prediction.
Speaker 6: What do you think it?
Speaker 15: No, it's revolution twenty seven thirty Heavan, Please don't call
Speaker 15: in if your IQ is not above eighty, please just
Speaker 15: spare us. I know people want entertainment, but Evan, Jay,
Speaker 15: how's it going?
Speaker 38: Yep, No debates some questions, but just wanted to uh
Speaker 38: tell you my thanks to my appreciation. I was chrismated
Speaker 38: on theophony over the last week. So yeah, that's it.
Speaker 15: Hey, thank you appreciate it, man, Thank you many years
Speaker 15: to you. Glad to hear that dog.
Speaker 17: Josie, Hello, mister Jason, how are you doing?
Speaker 6: Hello, mister Jason. You hear me?
Speaker 34: Yeah, I just have a question about this thing.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 9: It's the Trinity doesn't make any.
Speaker 6: Sense, all right?
Speaker 15: That was really funny, Albert, It is a Jamie said,
Speaker 15: is a full moon? Ye, mercurys and mercury is in
Speaker 15: retrogaate retrogade. It's in retrogade. Mercury is in retro gay. Hello,
Speaker 15: I'm you dude. You've been You've been yapping on the mojis.
Speaker 15: What's up?
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 28: Room?
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 14: Jay?
Speaker 6: What's up everybody?
Speaker 9: Since we're hitting up with the Bible coats.
Speaker 27: Matthew seventeen twenty, bye, blah blah blah, boring stuff.
Speaker 30: If you have faith, as the mustard seed, you will
Speaker 30: say to this this mountain move from here to there,
Speaker 30: and it will.
Speaker 27: Move and nothing will be impossible for you.
Speaker 30: I love the space, I love of what you're doing.
Speaker 6: Keep going on. Jesus is great.
Speaker 27: But always remember, in seventeen seventy six, when our beautiful
Speaker 27: country was created, all actually were kicked out because we
Speaker 27: don't want the role.
Speaker 15: Next, who is a protest of that disagrees has an
Speaker 15: actual argument? Raise your hand? We got twenty two people.
Speaker 15: Carlos abrils me badly got into spot bro.
Speaker 37: Okay, Jay, I have a quick question about canonicity for saints.
Speaker 37: I felt like it was kind of strange that there
Speaker 37: were some claims that the Rokor was saying that certain
Speaker 37: people are canonized as saints when they shouldn't have been,
Speaker 37: and that it was kind of propagated, or they'd be
Speaker 37: considered martyrs.
Speaker 6: Fighting for Russia in an inappropriate way. I just didn't
Speaker 6: really know what to make of that.
Speaker 15: I thought you were talking about the Romanov servants and
Speaker 15: jon Hus. What do you mean fighting in an improper way?
Speaker 15: I don't know what that means.
Speaker 37: Well, I've heard that the current patriarch has said that,
Speaker 37: you know, people were active in the war in Ukraine
Speaker 37: could be considered martyrs for the church and whatnot.
Speaker 15: I'm not exactly sure what he said. I mean, he
Speaker 15: could have said that it might be a controversial statement
Speaker 15: and there might be some people in real corps that
Speaker 15: disagree with it, but also, I mean, defending your homeland
Speaker 15: and dying for it could be considered a type of martyrroom.
Speaker 37: Okay, and I have one question related to Yakub.
Speaker 15: Everything about Yakuba is true.
Speaker 26: Okay, I heard theos ours were killed in a conspiracy
Speaker 26: about Yakub.
Speaker 6: I know I'm just rolling, but.
Speaker 15: That's all right, But everything about Yakuba is true. So yes, yeah,
Speaker 15: I think in the Orthodox Church, canonicity for saints or
Speaker 15: being a saint is not It's not the same ideas
Speaker 15: what Roman Catholics think. So Romancalis think that, like you did,
Speaker 15: it's not just the miracles, but you have to live
Speaker 15: a life of what they call heroic virtue and all
Speaker 15: this kind of stuff. And then you know, the ghostbusters
Speaker 15: in Rome investigate your case and they determine if there
Speaker 15: really were three miracles based on your background or excuse me,
Speaker 15: the intercessions and all this kind of stuff. But you'll
Speaker 15: notice there's a lot of odd balls in the Orthodox
Speaker 15: Church and history that have become saints, and a lot
Speaker 15: of times the Orthodox Church, saintthood is often tied to
Speaker 15: one significant noble thing that was done or act or
Speaker 15: martyrdom or something like that. So not everybody who is
Speaker 15: a saint Orthodox Church necessarily lived an immaculate lifetime of
Speaker 15: saintly living. So there's a lot of kings who did
Speaker 15: some odd things. Even Constantine is a saint Orthodox Church.
Speaker 15: You didn't always do everything in a saintly way. And
Speaker 15: there have been sainted kings and kings of Serbia and
Speaker 15: other areas that are saints that didn't necessarily do an think.
Speaker 15: I didn't even think the wro Oz, you know, lived
Speaker 15: a saintly perfect life. But they were martyrs, and so
Speaker 15: it's possible that a person who dies in the defense
Speaker 15: of their homeland could be a martyr. But I doubt
Speaker 15: that the patriarch was saying that everyone who dies in
Speaker 15: war is a martyr. That that seems far fetched. But
Speaker 15: I'm not sure what the exact statement is. And also,
Speaker 15: I mean, if I'm not even sure what road course
Speaker 15: position on that is, they might disagree. I don't know.
Speaker 15: I mean, a patriarch can say things wrong. We're not papists, right,
Speaker 15: we don't agree with everything that the patriarch costs Antonople says.
Speaker 15: You know so, but I don't think that it's wrong,
Speaker 15: or I do think it's virtuous to defend your homeland.
Speaker 15: Isn't there that story too of in the Russo Japanese War,
Speaker 15: there's a story of one of the Japanese bishops who
Speaker 15: didn't want to be involved in the conflict. But he
Speaker 15: still said that it was right for him to pray
Speaker 15: for his people and the Japanese people in the unfortunate
Speaker 15: situation that they were if they were going to war
Speaker 15: against Russia. So there's a lot of things in history.
Speaker 15: They're complex. There's not going to be these easy, you know,
Speaker 15: like spurgatism, black and white, simple situations where they're all
Speaker 15: the bad guys, wor Ald the good guys. Life is
Speaker 15: very complex and it's not you're not always able to
Speaker 15: fit everything into like a all or nothing scenario. Who
Speaker 15: is up next? We're giving precedent to precedent, excuse me
Speaker 15: to preference to Protestants today. If you're a prosident who disagrees,
Speaker 15: you go to the headline, raise your hand. Is there
Speaker 15: any Protestants in the chaw We got still twenty plus people?
Speaker 15: All right, Steiger, and then we'll go to you. How
Speaker 15: are you a Protestant when you got an icon as
Speaker 15: your picture that I'm making Since, okay, Steiger, are you there?
Speaker 15: Are you connecting?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 15: He tries to connect over just a couple of super jets.
Speaker 15: How long we've been going for? Over two hours? Doesn't
Speaker 15: we just started? What the heck, dude, Tom is we're
Speaker 15: in some kind of time warp two hours. Dang, so
Speaker 15: we just started this. Okay, Well he can't connect. I
Speaker 15: don't know what his problem is, Stiger, you want to
Speaker 15: try again, There's no, You're not connecting. Coffee cup, the doors,
Speaker 15: the doors, three dollars, Sam Harris. Sam Harris signed your
Speaker 15: Golden Girls paraphernalia in his closet. Absolutely, go ahead.
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 15: Coffee cup?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 31: So does the Eastern or our church thing that Saint
Speaker 31: Augustine is a saint?
Speaker 15: Yes, he's called a saint of the Fifth acta medical council.
Speaker 6: Okay? Did he old heresies?
Speaker 15: He held to errors? An error is not necessarily heresy.
Speaker 15: Every church father, in some way has some error that
Speaker 15: doesn't make them all heretics.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 31: So the philioque absolute divine simplicity or in heresies.
Speaker 15: A heresy is something that's declared to heresy by the
Speaker 15: church eventually in a council. Augustine didn't believe anything erroneous
Speaker 15: at his time that he knew was a heresy. So
Speaker 15: i philioque is not condemned until the Middle Ages.
Speaker 31: Okay, so before the nice and kind of the Nicean Council.
Speaker 31: If someone held that Jesus was in God or go
Speaker 31: substantial with the Father, then they were in heretics, right according.
Speaker 15: To that law. No, no, because some errors are significant
Speaker 15: enough that the person that holds them. It's the attitude
Speaker 15: that they have and the humility that they have. So,
Speaker 15: for example, when Augustine writes on the Trinity, he says
Speaker 15: in book three, I am speculating, and I give these
Speaker 15: books to the judgment of the universal Church, and if
Speaker 15: there's anything wrong in them, they can be rejected. So
Speaker 15: that's the attitude of humility that for example, Origin didn't have.
Speaker 15: Origin was obstinate to the end of his life in
Speaker 15: his heresies, and he did not submit to the judgment
Speaker 15: of the Church, whereas Augustine did. So Augustine's humility is
Speaker 15: what covers the theological speculations and mistakes that he had,
Speaker 15: whereas for the people that you're talking about, it's different.
Speaker 6: Okay, gotcha?
Speaker 31: Was He later corrected though, by other bishops and other theologians.
Speaker 15: If he hands his book to the Church for judgment,
Speaker 15: and that doesn't mean that it happens overnight, if the
Speaker 15: Church doesn't in his lifetime judge it, but the Church
Speaker 15: judges by the time of the Fifth Ecumenical Council that
Speaker 15: he's a saint. And by the way, do you know
Speaker 15: what book the Fifth Ecumenical Council lists as his pre
Speaker 15: eminent theological work. No, okay, it's none of those books.
Speaker 15: It's against the Manicheans, so it's not on the Trinity,
Speaker 15: or of God or any of these other works.
Speaker 6: Okay, gotcha, that was my question. Thank you. Right.
Speaker 15: So, heresy is a sin of will and obstinacy, not
Speaker 15: just a sin of mistake or error. And not even
Speaker 15: Roman Catholics believe that he got everything right. They think
Speaker 15: he made all kinds of theological mistakes, which would mean
Speaker 15: that Roman Catholicism is false if that's the criteria, Because
Speaker 15: Augustine taught a pretty strict doctrine predestination that the Roman
Speaker 15: cally Church eventually doesn't adhere to. So if that's the case,
Speaker 15: then in the Roman Catholic system, he's also a heretic.
Speaker 15: But pretty much everybody has a degree of flexibility for
Speaker 15: saints in the church, because no saint got everything as
Speaker 15: an individual saint correct. Many of them got all kinds
Speaker 15: of things wrong. Many of them got the canon of
Speaker 15: scripture wrong, and that's an important thing. But it doesn't
Speaker 15: make them all heretics because they made a mistake. Making
Speaker 15: mistake is not the essence of a heresy. Obstinacy and
Speaker 15: pride is the essence of heresy. I forgot who the
Speaker 15: next guy was. Who's the next Protestant that wants to
Speaker 15: come on here? There's eighteen people and none of you
Speaker 15: are Protestant. I don't understand. It's Protestant debate day and
Speaker 15: there's okay, here we go. Thomas, Thomas the Lama.
Speaker 6: Hey, what's up?
Speaker 36: Just had a couple of questions, like about Eastern Orthodox relationships.
Speaker 6: I guess to the Reforms.
Speaker 36: Okay, so I guess for starters, the main condemnation of
Speaker 36: the Reformed would be their relationship to Roman Catholicism.
Speaker 15: Correct, the Orthodox condemnation of the Reformed would be the
Speaker 15: relation to Roman Catholicism. I don't know even know what
Speaker 15: that means, Like.
Speaker 6: I suppose I can qualify the question.
Speaker 36: So the Reformed are going to try to make some
Speaker 36: claim about their Apostolic succession, at least the High Reform right,
Speaker 36: and they're going to trace that through Roman Catholicism. They're
Speaker 36: not going to trace it through like either the East split.
Speaker 15: I've never heard of a Reform person who believes in
Speaker 15: apostolic succession, so I don't even know what that means.
Speaker 36: Oh interesting, all right, maybe this is some niche view,
Speaker 36: I guess the second question.
Speaker 15: I mean, maybe an Anglican Calvinist, High Church Anglican Calvinists
Speaker 15: would try to claim that's the only.
Speaker 36: I mean, yeah, yeah, I've heard that from High Church
Speaker 36: Anglicans through Reformed Anglicans even, but I've heard it from
Speaker 36: like OPC guys, right, Orthodox Presbyterians.
Speaker 15: No, I mean, well, I mean, if they want to
Speaker 15: redefine what the word appstock succession means, then that's what
Speaker 15: they're doing, because there's no Protestants who are classical Reformation
Speaker 15: Protestants that believe that there's a transmission of the gift
Speaker 15: of the Holy Spirit in the laying on of hands.
Speaker 36: Kind of in the same way that a Lutheran is
Speaker 36: going to argue for the historicity and apolasticity of the
Speaker 36: Lutheran Church.
Speaker 15: But that's not what I just said, right.
Speaker 6: No, I'm recognizing the distinction.
Speaker 15: Then it's not apostolic session. It's redefining the terms to
Speaker 15: make Protestantism and continuity with some made up traditions, just
Speaker 15: like they do the same thing with Niceno constant Politan
Speaker 15: cree where says one Holy Catholic Apostolic and they redefine
Speaker 15: that to men the invisible Church.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'll just can side that it's like redefining. No
Speaker 6: problem there.
Speaker 36: So the second question would be I've seen maybe I
Speaker 36: obviously need to read more about Eastern Orthodox resources on
Speaker 36: the sovereignty of God, but it seems to me that
Speaker 36: like certain historic views within the Eastern Orthodox can be
Speaker 36: consistent with like maybe four point or three point five,
Speaker 36: you know, tool of affirming Calvinists.
Speaker 6: Do you agree or disagree? No?
Speaker 36: Okay, which of the points? Like, do you flat out
Speaker 36: reject all of them? Fair enough? All right, I'm not
Speaker 36: gonna take up too much time. If you ever want
Speaker 36: to have like a formal debate, I d M.
Speaker 6: Do you? So? Thanks for the space?
Speaker 15: Well how about right now?
Speaker 36: No, I'm not good enough at this. I have other
Speaker 36: people that I can talk to here or link you with. Again,
Speaker 36: I mean, what their names?
Speaker 15: Is it? Somebody with an audience over a few hundred followers?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 6: Yeah, a couple of them. Jonathan Speaks would.
Speaker 32: Be one of them.
Speaker 15: And how big is his audience.
Speaker 36: I'd probably guess around five six hundred.
Speaker 15: Now, thanks, thanks for your time again. The Twitter spaces
Speaker 15: are for four or five hundred two three five thousand.
Speaker 15: I'm not doing any formal debates unless you have a
Speaker 15: large following. I didn't work my butt off debating one
Speaker 15: thousand goobers to debate all the top atheists and Muslims
Speaker 15: to spend all my time debating a bunch of five
Speaker 15: hundred follower people who want to chase clout and grow
Speaker 15: their audience. So that's why you get the Twitter space,
Speaker 15: and they don't come here because all they want is
Speaker 15: a big audience.
Speaker 17: Jud Are you there?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I can hear you. It's real quiet. Can you
Speaker 6: hear me?
Speaker 15: Yeah?
Speaker 40: Hey, I don't know why your volume is super long
Speaker 40: on my phone, but I'm here, Okay.
Speaker 6: I had a question for you. So I'm a Protestant, I'm.
Speaker 40: An Evangelical and I've been inquiring into Orthodoxy and it's
Speaker 40: really fascinating stuff.
Speaker 6: I'm trying to learn as much as I can.
Speaker 40: The thing that I am having a hard time really
Speaker 40: understanding is your guys view on Christ's sacrifice and it
Speaker 40: comes to the shedding of blood and the old Testament
Speaker 40: sacrificial system. You know, that's really deeply ingrained and Protestant
Speaker 40: view of salvation.
Speaker 15: And literally, so what I'm gonna say is, I'm gonna
Speaker 15: what I'm gonna say is go watch the video Protestant
Speaker 15: Penal Substitution Jay Dyer. We've literally covered this probably five
Speaker 15: hundred times. It comes up in every open space. So
Speaker 15: if you look at my clips channel, you'll find multiple
Speaker 15: things on PSA. I try to be rude, I'm just like,
Speaker 15: I mean, it's like probably a thousand times we've responded
Speaker 15: to that. Go ahead, yep.
Speaker 41: Hey, so also Protestant here, very disgruntled Protestant.
Speaker 6: I would like to go East Orthodoxy.
Speaker 41: But my wife has voiced some concerns about y'all's mariology
Speaker 41: of Holy the Togos, and do y'all see her as
Speaker 41: totally sinless, like she has never sinned once.
Speaker 6: In her life?
Speaker 41: Or is that she is the most pure, most blessed,
Speaker 41: and and like I get all that part, but do
Speaker 41: y'all can make the contention that she's never sinned.
Speaker 15: Her, Yeah, she's a spatless virgin and God's grace preserved
Speaker 15: her from.
Speaker 41: Sinning, and so that would be a stumbling block for
Speaker 41: my wife is that she would not be comfortable saying
Speaker 41: that Mary only Tokos is sinless. She would say that
Speaker 41: she's not pure, if that's fine, but she would have
Speaker 41: the issue of making the jumpsy sinless.
Speaker 6: What do you what do you recommend?
Speaker 15: Just a little bit of a reminder. I'm going to
Speaker 15: be live at the Tampa Bay Screams Horror Convention. This
Speaker 15: is a decent sized convention with a rowdy troop of
Speaker 15: rascally b movie actors and others who will be there
Speaker 15: as well. I will be giving a lecture that evening,
Speaker 15: a dinner lecture that is separate from the convention, but
Speaker 15: we will also be at the convention and I will
Speaker 15: be presenting the Dark Secrets of Horror Films present. So
Speaker 15: join me tonight that night, excuse me, January nineteenth, in
Speaker 15: Tampa Bay. Get your tickets below this audio. In the
Speaker 15: show description, you'll see the links to head and over
Speaker 15: to the checkout. And it's going to be a lot
Speaker 15: of fun. The first thirty people, I think it's almost full,
Speaker 15: already have their free copy of Esoteric Hollywood reserved for them,
Speaker 15: and of course they'll be signed copies and other things
Speaker 15: like that as well as the other books. So get
Speaker 15: your tickets now. January nineteenth, that's eleven days the Tampa
Speaker 15: Bay Screams Horror Convention