WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, I got married to a fuck pop whoa, we

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<v Speaker 1>got ready, come joint in the subway shop for.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm married to uncle Pap.

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<v Speaker 3>Whoa by imaging man Rosie.

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<v Speaker 4>Come to me through to hoo like the stick patch

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<v Speaker 4>on the duke.

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<v Speaker 5>Whoa, whoa open.

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<v Speaker 3>Ready joint to see the subway shop over. We got

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<v Speaker 3>ready for the s sway shop for.

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<v Speaker 6>M h.

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<v Speaker 7>Oh, I'm married to a phone.

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<v Speaker 8>Go pop.

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<v Speaker 2>We got ready.

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<v Speaker 7>We got joined in a subway shop. Right, there's a

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<v Speaker 7>man no roads. They come to me through the two

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<v Speaker 7>night I missen man rods. They come to me through

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<v Speaker 7>this Heatoo bunco.

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<v Speaker 8>Phone.

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<v Speaker 4>Whoa bunk.

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<v Speaker 6>Bunk?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, whoa, I got married. I got married to my phone,

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<v Speaker 4>Go papo.

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<v Speaker 6>We got ready.

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<v Speaker 4>We got joined in a subway shop.

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<v Speaker 5>Will go phone call love, phone call love, I.

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<v Speaker 2>May be to my phone. Do we got wedded, Come

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<v Speaker 2>join in a subway shop.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh who, I'm lippy.

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<v Speaker 5>Married to a funk.

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<v Speaker 9>Go bo.

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<v Speaker 2>We got joined according to the subway shop Boo.

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<v Speaker 5>A minute and biscuits.

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<v Speaker 2>Some minerals to come and be do it to the

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<v Speaker 2>holy man watching on the two.

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<v Speaker 10>Whoa, oh, I'm mab me too my phono.

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<v Speaker 11>We got readed we got joined in the subway shopping boy,

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<v Speaker 11>the mats and minerals.

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<v Speaker 2>I come to middle of it too, the man in minerals.

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<v Speaker 2>They're coming into this year too.

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<v Speaker 4>Whoo ohone, I got married.

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<v Speaker 2>I got married to.

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<v Speaker 12>My funk go Bob.

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<v Speaker 2>We got wedded. We got joined in the subway shop.

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<v Speaker 13>Until the monkey you find off in that tree?

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<v Speaker 2>What you doing up there?

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<v Speaker 6>Why you stand?

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<v Speaker 5>Why you run it from the red bad you ran

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<v Speaker 5>from then trew and from me.

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<v Speaker 13>Until the monkeys like their female monkeys with them Bananna's

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<v Speaker 13>between the trees hanging down upside down.

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<v Speaker 5>That's a smile.

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<v Speaker 13>Side And tell the monkey.

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<v Speaker 6>What you doing to me?

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<v Speaker 2>Till until a monkey, till the.

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<v Speaker 14>Mackyn till the mody.

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<v Speaker 6>What's it doing it to me?

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<v Speaker 4>Till a tiller?

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<v Speaker 8>Mom Moday.

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<v Speaker 5>Till mom fucking Jamie? Could you make me?

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<v Speaker 6>I express?

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<v Speaker 5>So okay, we're gonna open it up.

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<v Speaker 15>Let's keep it.

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<v Speaker 5>One plus one plus one equal three.

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<v Speaker 11>Icons are Adala tree, j J but Jay can I talk?

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<v Speaker 15>But it wasn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Next, Cathodra, God is real wife? Does he allow evil?

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<v Speaker 5>Why do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men?

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<v Speaker 5>It's a no brainer.

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<v Speaker 2>You're such a tyrannical rainer.

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<v Speaker 13>Is this your first time on the web changer, Joe?

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<v Speaker 2>Can't take these loads your slow boys?

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<v Speaker 4>Is this your first time on the shame changer?

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<v Speaker 5>Joe?

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<v Speaker 2>Was that a creator foot part?

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<v Speaker 15>M dude?

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<v Speaker 6>Stop repeating my name?

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<v Speaker 15>Dude?

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<v Speaker 9>You goober's callin or I'll boot you.

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<v Speaker 2>Where did we get the Bible from? Have you read

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<v Speaker 2>the Canons of Franzia?

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<v Speaker 16>What are you Catholic?

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<v Speaker 15>Are you promisonans?

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<v Speaker 11>I'm not trying to be me, but do you have

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<v Speaker 11>an actual argument?

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<v Speaker 2>There is only one church?

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<v Speaker 5>You are in a cult, You're.

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<v Speaker 2>A goblin, a demon, a boomer?

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<v Speaker 17>Quick question?

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<v Speaker 11>Do we have any diddyback venerators in the chat?

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<v Speaker 2>Is this your first time on.

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<v Speaker 5>Chan't take these loads here? Slow boys? Are you?

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<v Speaker 8>Is this your first time on bean where?

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<v Speaker 13>If you're a wine in front.

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<v Speaker 8>Of the line, I'm mute, dude, what.

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<v Speaker 6>Is yours stemic justification?

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<v Speaker 2>That argument is circular and you are refuted?

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<v Speaker 6>Is this your first.

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<v Speaker 5>Time on the wereh?

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<v Speaker 15>I needed you? Oh? What better song to kick it

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<v Speaker 15>off with when debating Protestants than nineteen ninety three electronic

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<v Speaker 15>and dance music straight from the dance hall Twitter. I

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<v Speaker 15>want to see you up.

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<v Speaker 18>There's only one thing they can bring them a together

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<v Speaker 18>that begins with you.

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<v Speaker 15>But where it begins with you, not you. I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 15>tell you what word is Usury.

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<v Speaker 18>On the dance floor.

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<v Speaker 15>Baker. Shut that app up, fakery on the part of

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<v Speaker 15>flour baker.

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<v Speaker 19>Make the people super poor or rep middle class bakers.

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<v Speaker 20>Shake that ass all right, welcome everybody.

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<v Speaker 15>I wanted to play that song last time, but I

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<v Speaker 15>didn't get to it. I got coffee in my mouth.

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<v Speaker 15>I make my coffee so strong that the coffee grounds

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<v Speaker 15>are drowning in it, being like, get me out of here.

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<v Speaker 15>This coffee is too strong. I'm a coffee ground and

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<v Speaker 15>it's too strong. Shout out to my girls, the Dark

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<v Speaker 15>Triad right there. Jamie bought me a Golden Girl's cup.

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<v Speaker 15>I don't know why. I just she just thought it

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<v Speaker 15>was funny. I think because there was an inside joke

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<v Speaker 15>many years ago on a debate with an atheist where

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<v Speaker 15>I said if the atheist debeated defeated me, I would

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<v Speaker 15>give him an autograph golden Girls shirt, and they didn't

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<v Speaker 15>think I actually had one, but I had one. The autograph, though,

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<v Speaker 15>was not from be Arthur or any of the Golden Girls.

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<v Speaker 15>It was me a Golden Girls shirt. So let that

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<v Speaker 15>blow your mind for a moment. All right, what's up?

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<v Speaker 15>Welcome everybody. We got a nice little warm balmy chat today,

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<v Speaker 15>a bunch of chad nerds in the audience. Now, this week,

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<v Speaker 15>I don't know what happened. I'm guessing it's because people

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<v Speaker 15>are leaving Protestantism. I mean, that's my guess. I don't

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<v Speaker 15>know why this screen doesn't.

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<v Speaker 17>Want to work.

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<v Speaker 15>The Protestants got all feisty this week. The Calvinists got

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<v Speaker 15>all feisty on Twitter. They were just they were just sasty.

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<v Speaker 15>They got a little bit of a sass in their

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<v Speaker 15>walk this week, more than normal. And there's several things

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<v Speaker 15>going on in the evangelical Protestant world. One of those

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<v Speaker 15>things is the idea of recovering lost masculinity. Lost masculinity,

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<v Speaker 15>How do we get more masculine? Bro, We got to

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<v Speaker 15>compete with the Muslims, supposedly, and they're having kids and

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<v Speaker 15>they're doing their thing. They're crazy cult things. So we

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<v Speaker 15>got to get more masculine, and so they come up

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<v Speaker 15>with these conferences. I guess Christ is king.

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<v Speaker 3>WHOA.

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<v Speaker 15>Now I made a joke and my joke was intended

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<v Speaker 15>to prod and goad them a bit to get somebody

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<v Speaker 15>to come to debate. But I should have realized that

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<v Speaker 15>it's the same with the Roman Catholics. If you make

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<v Speaker 15>a joke like this and you try to prod them,

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<v Speaker 15>they turn that into a piety signaling thing to where

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<v Speaker 15>you're not worth talking to because you made this joke.

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<v Speaker 15>Now they can spend all week blasting Orthodoxy as idolators, traders,

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<v Speaker 15>anti American, literally, on and on and on, Russian KGB

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<v Speaker 15>agents and the slightest pushback joke back, Oh oh, look

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<v Speaker 15>how un.

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<v Speaker 19>Christ like he is. This man is on christ Like.

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<v Speaker 19>He's not like John MacArthur. John MacArthur calls up people

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<v Speaker 19>who like Trump and say cush words. Trump said the

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<v Speaker 19>P word, and we're not holy, we are holier than vowel. Now,

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<v Speaker 19>I said, these are a bunch of pasty tubby I

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<v Speaker 19>pa men referring back to my ip A video a

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<v Speaker 19>year or six months ago, and I stand my mamat desist.

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<v Speaker 6>Now.

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<v Speaker 15>I don't know or in McIntyre people say, oh, he's

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<v Speaker 15>a cool dude from Glenn Beeck's show. That's entirely possible.

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<v Speaker 15>It's entirely possible. All of these dudes are cool dudes.

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<v Speaker 15>I don't even know who they are. I did recognize

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<v Speaker 15>later on that, oh that's Calvin Robinson without an afro,

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<v Speaker 15>so I didn't even realize that was him. I just

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<v Speaker 15>thought that was like a like an arcle, like a

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<v Speaker 15>nerdy black dude up in there, just being an earth.

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<v Speaker 21>A theological article Laura.

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<v Speaker 15>Toment something like that. But I'm just kidding. Oh, he

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<v Speaker 15>went too far with that one. He went too far

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<v Speaker 15>with that one.

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<v Speaker 22>Bro.

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<v Speaker 15>Now again, Now this dude on the end over here,

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<v Speaker 15>he looks like he was cut from the village people

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<v Speaker 15>with that big old mustache and weird tubby. Look. The

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<v Speaker 15>next dude we had multiple dms. I thought he was

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<v Speaker 15>gonna come to bait multiple times. I will take you

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<v Speaker 15>up all that, sir. The next guy over trying to

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<v Speaker 15>have an orthodox beard, but the high top fade. I

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<v Speaker 15>don't know if y' all know that's out of style

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<v Speaker 15>like five years ago. But what can we expect from Calvinists.

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<v Speaker 15>Maybe these aren't all Calvinists. I don't even know. And

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<v Speaker 15>why are they end up giant polo trash? I'm confused.

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<v Speaker 15>Is that supposed to signify the spiritual track. I don't

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<v Speaker 15>know what this means. Now, Wait, are these not the

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<v Speaker 15>same dudes? Underneath those dudes? So we got the varsity

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<v Speaker 15>team and then the backup Calvinists. Is that what that is?

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<v Speaker 15>I'm joking. I don't even know. It's just to me,

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<v Speaker 15>it's funny just say that they're all like pasty tubby Calvinists,

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<v Speaker 15>when one, two, three, four of them are tubby and

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<v Speaker 15>pasty and the other ones are not. Anyway, I can

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<v Speaker 15>smell the beard oil coming off of this infographic here.

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<v Speaker 15>But I don't have a lot of respect for Calvinists.

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<v Speaker 15>I used to be a Calvinist many years ago, and

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<v Speaker 15>I know that world as well. I haven't been in

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<v Speaker 15>that world in many, many years, so I don't really

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<v Speaker 15>think much about it. But I just thought it was

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<v Speaker 15>funny that multiple Protestants Calvinists this week just chiming in

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<v Speaker 15>on how bad Orthodox he is, how bad we are,

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<v Speaker 15>idolators the worst. And then I put up one comment

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<v Speaker 15>and it's, oh, oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 23>Look at the way this man speaks. Look at the

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<v Speaker 23>way this man speaks. He does not have the spirit

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<v Speaker 23>of Christ. There's no way he could speak in such ways.

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<v Speaker 23>Worry you ain't true regenerate born again Christian, but speaking

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<v Speaker 23>in such ways proves he's not Christian? Or were you

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<v Speaker 23>predestined to have man boobs? Were you predestined.

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<v Speaker 15>To have tubby flannel man boob ipa aesthetics and drip?

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<v Speaker 15>The only thing dripping on your drip is the sweat

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<v Speaker 15>because y'all has a bunch of tubbies, a bunch of teletubbies,

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<v Speaker 15>a bunch of five point tulip Calvinist teletubbies on the entranets. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 15>this is the next generation of like the Doug Wilson's

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<v Speaker 15>who also is a giant tubby man. Seeing how they're

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<v Speaker 15>all tubby? Do Protestants not know how to eat?

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<v Speaker 6>Do they?

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<v Speaker 15>I don't understand. They don't go to the gym, They

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<v Speaker 15>don't understand, Like what it's it's not hard to not

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<v Speaker 15>be tubby, especially in the days of the Internet, where

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<v Speaker 15>we can figure out how to eat. I can understand

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<v Speaker 15>twenty years ago we didn't know about diets, that we

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<v Speaker 15>didn't know about high fromptose, current storp and all this junk.

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<v Speaker 15>But anyway, yes, I'm making jokes. I think these people

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<v Speaker 15>are kind of worthy of making jokes. Now again, now

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<v Speaker 15>this we Bon guy, Webo whatever is Joel Webo. I

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<v Speaker 15>thought that was like a Japanese dude that married his

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<v Speaker 15>pillow a Webo or something. Joel Webo we Bon. He

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<v Speaker 15>was the loudest of these guys, and he said that

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<v Speaker 15>Protestantism is true because of patriotism in the West and

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<v Speaker 15>all that kind of stuff, which are really is some

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<v Speaker 15>of the stupidest arguments imaginable, because how does the West?

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<v Speaker 15>What does that even mean? The West was Roman Catholic

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<v Speaker 15>prior to being Protestant, so is the West Roman Catholic?

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<v Speaker 15>I mean, this is so stupid, right, like, what are

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<v Speaker 15>you talking about? Well, these guys really treat the Founding

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<v Speaker 15>Fathers as they're Church fathers. That's how Protestant Presonism operates

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<v Speaker 15>in theory. And that's why I thought this was a funny.

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<v Speaker 15>I wish that Grock had done a better picture. Where's

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<v Speaker 15>my grog picture of the found Yeah, here we go.

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<v Speaker 15>This is the Founding Fathers with the magical powdered wig

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<v Speaker 15>powder drafting the inerrant inspired Constitution. Do you see that?

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<v Speaker 15>And if you notice, if you look at if you

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<v Speaker 15>zoom in real close, if you were to pat those wigs,

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<v Speaker 15>you would get some of that magical powdered wig dust.

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<v Speaker 15>That's the source of how those documents were inspired. And

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<v Speaker 15>that's why Saint Benjamin Franklin, who happened to be a

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<v Speaker 15>Atanist and a member of the Health Fire Club, still

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<v Speaker 15>a Protestant founding church father and Saint I'm joking, by

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<v Speaker 15>the way, I'm just trying to prod the Protestants to

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<v Speaker 15>get it. I'm prodding the Protestants. Not in a gayway, though,

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<v Speaker 15>although these guys might like that. I don't sell. All

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<v Speaker 15>these guys look look like they might be on the

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<v Speaker 15>other team, battan on the other team. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 15>I don't know. Now. I understand wes Houff is not

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<v Speaker 15>going to do a debate, but I did want it

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<v Speaker 15>out there that I would love to debate wes Hoff.

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<v Speaker 15>I would happy, be happy to debate any of these

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<v Speaker 15>Protestant pastors. I have zero fear of any of these people. Now,

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<v Speaker 15>one psycho Protestant guy who did a debate recently, who

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<v Speaker 15>has literally like a few thousand followers he wants to debate.

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<v Speaker 15>I don't want to debate that guy because he's literally

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<v Speaker 15>just a psycho. I tried to get him to debate

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<v Speaker 15>years ago, he wouldn't do it. Now he wants to

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<v Speaker 15>debate because he's trying to build clout. So not every

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<v Speaker 15>person I don't debate is because of some sort of

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<v Speaker 15>fear or something like that. I didn't even extend an

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<v Speaker 15>offer to that guy. Recently, I'm talking about all of

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<v Speaker 15>these Protestants over here. I mean, I don't even know

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<v Speaker 15>what it meant. Like there was a dude literally saying

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<v Speaker 15>that if you are against Protestantism, you're anti white and

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<v Speaker 15>you're a communist, just like the most wow, stupid thing

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<v Speaker 15>I've ever heard, Like, what the hell are you talking about?

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<v Speaker 15>And then the other people are saying that, oh, I'm

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<v Speaker 15>not actually going to debate into these people. I'm just

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<v Speaker 15>putting out challenges. I'm like, what the heck are you

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<v Speaker 15>talking about? Dude. It's like, I mean, I'm not trying

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<v Speaker 15>to be arrogant, but I've been debating people publicly since

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<v Speaker 15>twenty seventeen, so that's nine years of public debates with

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<v Speaker 15>countless public figures, countless atheists and Muslims, and these people

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<v Speaker 15>act like I'm just some rando that's never debated anybody.

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<v Speaker 15>It's like it's kind of unbelievable. Really. Now, when it

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<v Speaker 15>comes to James White or any of these people, there's

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<v Speaker 15>a pattern of they make miss they make statements that

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<v Speaker 15>they will not debate me, and they have a list

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<v Speaker 15>in litany of reasons as to why. First of all,

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<v Speaker 15>White has said for years he doesn't have time to

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<v Speaker 15>study orthodoxy, he's not interested in that debate. Also on

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<v Speaker 15>me personally, my channel is too weird and there's too

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<v Speaker 15>many geopolitical conspiracy topics. I don't know what that would

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<v Speaker 15>have to do with whether you would debate or not.

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<v Speaker 15>But to me, those are all just excuses, and they're

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<v Speaker 15>really no different than the other excuses that the Roman

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<v Speaker 15>Catholics have used. Which is now, notice this is a

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<v Speaker 15>pattern of what people do. Then we're gonna open up

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<v Speaker 15>just a second. But I want to keep calling attention

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<v Speaker 15>to this because I've seen so many people do this,

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<v Speaker 15>and it's so transparent. Once you see it, they throw

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<v Speaker 15>out all kinds of attacks, prods, jokes, ribbing. The minute

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<v Speaker 15>you respond, there's suddenly a victim. You should have never

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<v Speaker 15>responded to them because they're a small profile with no attention.

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<v Speaker 15>Why are you bullying me? Why are you even responding

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<v Speaker 15>to me? How dare you reply to my attacks? You're

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<v Speaker 15>so mean and it's so you're so irreverent and on

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<v Speaker 15>christ like. When they literally said like the worst stuff imaginable,

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<v Speaker 15>that to me is the most slimy behavior ever. Now,

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<v Speaker 15>one of these guys, this easily guy who is over

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<v Speaker 15>here literally every day tweeting about Orthodoxy for the last

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<v Speaker 15>few weeks, he says, Oh, yeah, let's have a chat.

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<v Speaker 15>I'd love to come on and we can have a conversation,

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<v Speaker 15>not a debate. I told him politely in the DMS, Hey,

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<v Speaker 15>I'm happy to do that. We don't have to have

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<v Speaker 15>a debate. You're always walking to have a conversation if

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<v Speaker 15>that's what you'd like. Well, today he comes back and says, oh,

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<v Speaker 15>I saw some clips of you on the internet and

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<v Speaker 15>you called a guy a name three years ago. Maybe

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<v Speaker 15>the guy who called in deserved to be called a name. No,

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<v Speaker 15>but you called the guy a name. Therefore you're not

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<v Speaker 15>christ Like. I'm not going to interact with you. This

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<v Speaker 15>is why you goobers have a crisis of masculinity. Is effeminate,

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<v Speaker 15>and you're passive aggressive, and anytime somebody calls you out

325
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<v Speaker 15>on a week plus of going after us to step

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<v Speaker 15>up to the plate and defend your positions, and then

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<v Speaker 15>you cower hiding behind the fact that I once said

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<v Speaker 15>a quote mean thing three years ago. That's your crisis

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<v Speaker 15>of masculinity, is that you're a coward. You're a giant VAJAYJ.

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<v Speaker 15>I'm the only giant VJJ that's allowed to be on here. Okay,

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<v Speaker 15>are we clear now, I'm just being silly. I'm having fun. Relax,

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<v Speaker 15>chill up. But look, we had a PhD guy the

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<v Speaker 15>other day this He says, I'm a Calvinist from Bulgaria

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<v Speaker 15>and I know the truth of orthodoxy, and I would

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<v Speaker 15>never debate you accepting written form written for him. Are

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<v Speaker 15>you joking? This is not two thousand and seven, Not

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<v Speaker 15>on Zanga, dude, We're not on word Press. Is twenty

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<v Speaker 15>twenty four. Ward Dollar people have YouTube debates and video

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<v Speaker 15>It's like, what are you talking about? A written debate? Like,

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<v Speaker 15>I'm gonna sit there. And by the way, some multiple people,

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00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:18.119
<v Speaker 15>including FDA and others were calling that out. He just

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<v Speaker 15>wants a written debate so he can rely on grock

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<v Speaker 15>and chat GPT. You can't get away with that in

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<v Speaker 15>a actual classical formal debate. But it's a trick, and

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<v Speaker 15>people are figuring that out. You got people saying, I'm

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<v Speaker 15>a length, I'm a scholar, I'm an expert in these

347
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<v Speaker 15>fields when they're like twenty and they don't have a

348
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<v Speaker 15>college degree and they're literally going and putting everything into

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<v Speaker 15>chat GPT. And then this other guy maybe he maybe

350
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<v Speaker 15>maybe he is a PhD. Now, if you're a PhD,

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<v Speaker 15>wouldn't it be easy for you to come and demolish me?

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<v Speaker 18>I mean, that's due, said this bud News commudian. Well

353
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<v Speaker 18>it could crush him and do sick good to debate.

354
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<v Speaker 18>Oh Bulgarrial Gulvinus. There's five of us and all the Bulgiria.

355
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<v Speaker 18>It's the true church. Clearly, Uh no, won't come. Now,

356
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:10.799
<v Speaker 18>we got this other dude right here. Look at this guy.

357
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<v Speaker 15>He just wants to call us names. No wonder, we

358
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<v Speaker 15>don't want to debate him. Sola Chad. Now, if you're

359
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.799
<v Speaker 15>a chad man, he's this is more more than more

360
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.559
<v Speaker 15>like a fed profile. He puts a dang ai gun

361
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<v Speaker 15>and a Bible, but he won't come to bate. He's

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<v Speaker 15>over here posting r C Sproler. He's over there sipping

363
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<v Speaker 15>on r C Sproler, getting drunk. The rc sprol is

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<v Speaker 15>like the He's like the Colombo of Calvinism. No, what

365
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<v Speaker 15>why was that again?

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<v Speaker 6>Now?

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<v Speaker 24>Did you say told again? Run that back for me,

368
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:54.759
<v Speaker 24>because I'm rc Sproller. Take a take a drink on

369
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<v Speaker 24>my drip, get drunk on by Calvinism.

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<v Speaker 15>Did these Calvinists won't last ten minutes in a debate.

371
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<v Speaker 15>I guarantee you I know inside and out Calvinism. So

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<v Speaker 15>I hope that you guys will step up. It's open

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<v Speaker 15>for him. I'm a comedy. I'm a clown, dude. I

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00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.519
<v Speaker 15>even put in my profile clown. Look at that right there,

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<v Speaker 15>writer for Sam Hide Show. Comedian Officially, now I can

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<v Speaker 15>officially call it. I appropriated that title in deception because

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<v Speaker 15>I didn't actually have any proof that I was a

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<v Speaker 15>comedian except for being on The Tucker Show for ten

379
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<v Speaker 15>minutes being a quote comedian. So the joke was that

380
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.759
<v Speaker 15>I called myself a comedian, but I didn't really have

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<v Speaker 15>any proof of that.

382
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<v Speaker 12>But in today's world, you can just call yourself whatever

383
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<v Speaker 12>you want. You can manifest it. So I manifested myself

384
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<v Speaker 12>as a comedian. Then Sam Hide hired me, So let

385
00:27:55.880 --> 00:28:00.440
<v Speaker 12>that blow your mind. That's proof of manifestation, dog, how

386
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:03.079
<v Speaker 12>do you prove manifestation? I got the one ring. Look

387
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:08.720
<v Speaker 12>at that, that's Frodo's one ring right there. The one

388
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:13.240
<v Speaker 12>ring doesn't just make you invisible, it also manifests your dreams.

389
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<v Speaker 12>I manifested this, so.

390
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<v Speaker 15>Now I actually do have cred. Now why do I

391
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:23.039
<v Speaker 15>say all that? Because if I'm an idiot comedian man,

392
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<v Speaker 15>it should be nothing for any of these smart boomer

393
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<v Speaker 15>theology men and gen X's theology man. They should be

394
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<v Speaker 15>able to just pop on here and demolish me in

395
00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:37.160
<v Speaker 15>two seconds, make me look stupid, eh, wouldn't it be? Yeah,

396
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:39.119
<v Speaker 15>name it claiming. That's what I'm talking about. I was

397
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<v Speaker 15>following Kenneth Copeland when y'all were still in your diapers.

398
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:47.039
<v Speaker 15>Why do y'all still in diapers? Especially these tubby oap

399
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<v Speaker 15>men over here, This Joe Webon over at Webo married

400
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:52.920
<v Speaker 15>to his nip on pillow or whatever the heck that

401
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:58.000
<v Speaker 15>means over there in a dang diaper. I'm just kidding.

402
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:01.640
<v Speaker 15>Think an need of these people want a debate? Yeah,

403
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:03.920
<v Speaker 15>I read Paul Kalo. I figured out this is the secret.

404
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:06.319
<v Speaker 15>I got the one ring. I manifested my dreams. Bro,

405
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:11.359
<v Speaker 15>I manifest, I said, Sam Hyde is gonna want me

406
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:17.440
<v Speaker 15>as a comedy man dreams manifested right there? Look at that.

407
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:25.200
<v Speaker 15>How is Calvinism true if I manifested all that? Anyway,

408
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:27.640
<v Speaker 15>I'm being silly. I can't help it.

409
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:28.240
<v Speaker 6>Uh.

410
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<v Speaker 15>But by the way, I do have a pretty intense

411
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<v Speaker 15>dislike for Calvinism, and I can say that as a

412
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<v Speaker 15>person who was a Calvinist. I was at bonson seminary.

413
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<v Speaker 15>So today we're going to open it up. Hopefully we

414
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<v Speaker 15>get some some Protestants and some Calvinists over here. You know,

415
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:50.920
<v Speaker 15>as I think back over the last several years, we've

416
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<v Speaker 15>had a lot of Roman Catholic debates. Well, where's all

417
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<v Speaker 15>the Protestants. Let's see, who was the last Protestant I

418
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:01.359
<v Speaker 15>remember debating? Was Dale the Protestant together with doctor bow Brands.

419
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<v Speaker 15>Remember that debate? Dale got so mad that he's still

420
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:12.039
<v Speaker 15>attacking Orthodoxy all the time. No, no, I can't. Well, right

421
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:13.880
<v Speaker 15>around that time, I take that back, was the Redeem

422
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:17.599
<v Speaker 15>Zoomer debate. But the Redeemed Zoomer debate broke. Redeem Zoomer

423
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.400
<v Speaker 15>literally broke that dude. He has been angry tweeting about

424
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.960
<v Speaker 15>Orthodoxy ever since, and he actually said I'm quitting. Too

425
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:33.319
<v Speaker 15>many people are converting Orthodoxy. Now look, I just am

426
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.960
<v Speaker 15>about to post that on Twitter. By the way, that

427
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:42.799
<v Speaker 15>Redeem Zoomer debates about to go up, because every time

428
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:44.720
<v Speaker 15>you do a debate with a Calvinist, it's just like

429
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:46.559
<v Speaker 15>the Protestants, I mean the Muslims.

430
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:47.400
<v Speaker 17>Same thing.

431
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:48.880
<v Speaker 15>Protestants, Muslims, same thing.

432
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.920
<v Speaker 21>When you do a debate with them, they're like, well,

433
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.839
<v Speaker 21>you didn't debate the real Calvinist. You debated this young

434
00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:59.759
<v Speaker 21>man who's basically a child on the untrodout. He's only

435
00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:01.480
<v Speaker 21>tw he loved or whatever he is.

436
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:05.680
<v Speaker 15>Yes, I know there's always the hidden e mom of

437
00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:08.599
<v Speaker 15>the Calvinist that's out there that you haven't yet debated

438
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.200
<v Speaker 15>because you're running from the hidden mom. Nobody knows who

439
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:14.759
<v Speaker 15>the hidden mom is, but you're running from him because

440
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:19.119
<v Speaker 15>you won't debate the real Muslim scholar, just like you

441
00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:25.319
<v Speaker 15>won't debate the real Protestant scholar. All right anyway, and

442
00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:28.720
<v Speaker 15>not being silly, Oh yeah, Pastor P. Pastor P was

443
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:33.279
<v Speaker 15>like a year ago though, But I guess it's all

444
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.200
<v Speaker 15>coming up till about a year where Redeem Zuomer and

445
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:43.279
<v Speaker 15>who's the other Protestant I forget his name anyway, I

446
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:46.240
<v Speaker 15>don't remember who the other Protestants were. But look, we're

447
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.920
<v Speaker 15>about to get busy. It's about to open up, right,

448
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:55.880
<v Speaker 15>It's about to open up and get busy. Jamie's not here.

449
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:58.599
<v Speaker 15>So I got a giant jug. I got a sipping

450
00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:02.279
<v Speaker 15>jug of coffee, so nobody can stop me. You will

451
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:04.680
<v Speaker 15>not make me angry. I will continue to operate in

452
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.759
<v Speaker 15>love because I have my ginger chewes, which will keep

453
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:11.359
<v Speaker 15>my the demon, the beat us demon down. There will

454
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:15.160
<v Speaker 15>not be diabet us anger, and that demon will not

455
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:18.720
<v Speaker 15>possess me. So all of y'all can't copy and paste

456
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.680
<v Speaker 15>from Sam Shimun and say that I'm manifesting my demons

457
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:25.240
<v Speaker 15>or whatever. How are you going to do that? I

458
00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:27.759
<v Speaker 15>got the sacrament of gender Jews right here. Also got

459
00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:30.880
<v Speaker 15>to back up the bananas. But that is not for debating.

460
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:35.519
<v Speaker 15>That's for calling in Matt delahunkey, Dela monkey. When I

461
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.920
<v Speaker 15>when I'm starting to lose and I gotta rely on

462
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:42.839
<v Speaker 15>a uh seasoned rage quitter, I'll call up on the.

463
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:47.680
<v Speaker 25>Banana phone, Matt Dola monkey, Matt Dela monkey. You climbed

464
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:52.559
<v Speaker 25>up in that tree? What you're doing up there? Are

465
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:56.759
<v Speaker 25>you scared. Why are you running from every deep bay?

466
00:32:57.039 --> 00:32:57.359
<v Speaker 6>Hey?

467
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:05.279
<v Speaker 15>You ran from and and from me, So don't piss

468
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:07.799
<v Speaker 15>me off. I'll get on that banana phone.

469
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:09.960
<v Speaker 25>And by the way, that banana phone has your mom's

470
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:11.599
<v Speaker 25>number on speed dial.

471
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:25.559
<v Speaker 15>That's the zigger. Laugh, don't be racist. This phone, this

472
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:29.680
<v Speaker 15>phone right here calls directly to Matt Dela monkey, your mom,

473
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:35.680
<v Speaker 15>and Mohammed. Hey, jab, there was a there was a

474
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 15>Calvinist saying that I'm I'm the orthodox Mohammed a job

475
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:43.519
<v Speaker 15>because I don't really debate anybody. I just throw out

476
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:49.240
<v Speaker 15>the debate me excuse okay, dude, yeah sure, even though

477
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:54.839
<v Speaker 15>that's totally backwards. As a reminder, Mohammed h a job

478
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:59.119
<v Speaker 15>when I asked him to debate after this, take them back.

479
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:03.359
<v Speaker 15>This is right before, no, this is after no, this

480
00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:06.720
<v Speaker 15>is right before I forget when okay, three to five

481
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:11.039
<v Speaker 15>million views on our debate. But you are not popular enough,

482
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:13.000
<v Speaker 15>mister DIYer.

483
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:15.679
<v Speaker 23>As you can see for my Twitter, four people challenge

484
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.039
<v Speaker 23>me to debate my team his team.

485
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.599
<v Speaker 15>Does he actually have a team or is that like

486
00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:26.519
<v Speaker 15>Sneako and two other goobers our team review. You do

487
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:30.679
<v Speaker 15>not generate numbers. You only have a four hundred thousand

488
00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:36.480
<v Speaker 15>views on Big Video. I am not closing door. Figure out.

489
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:38.639
<v Speaker 15>I wait to become more popular. So he mean, girl me,

490
00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:45.920
<v Speaker 15>I'm not allowed at the popular table. Even though even

491
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:50.199
<v Speaker 15>though our debate was originally the biggest debate of last year.

492
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:52.360
<v Speaker 15>I would say maybe because of the Joe Rogan thing,

493
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:55.840
<v Speaker 15>that the Wes Huff Billy Corson debate has surpassed it,

494
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:59.599
<v Speaker 15>because now everybody's talked about that debate. But it's the

495
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:03.360
<v Speaker 15>second biggest debate of last year. But now I'm not

496
00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:06.239
<v Speaker 15>popular enough, even though we just had twenty million impressions

497
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:10.400
<v Speaker 15>on last Friday's Alex Jones show. Now, don't make the cut, dude,

498
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:15.000
<v Speaker 15>don't make the cut. Now. I know mohammedhed Job knows

499
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.000
<v Speaker 15>about being suppressed in shadow band too, which my channel

500
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:24.679
<v Speaker 15>was demonetized in twenty eighteen, so that might have something

501
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:26.239
<v Speaker 15>to do with it too, But no, no, that doesn't

502
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:33.119
<v Speaker 15>exist in my case. You see. Anyway, Mohammed had Job

503
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:38.840
<v Speaker 15>knows way better. He knows better than to pick one

504
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:42.239
<v Speaker 15>of his goobers to debate with me and Sam because

505
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 15>that would go nowhere. So of course he's not gonna

506
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:46.519
<v Speaker 15>do that, and we knew he wouldn't do it, but

507
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:52.800
<v Speaker 15>it's time to open it up. If you want to

508
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:54.679
<v Speaker 15>support the stream via super chest, thank you to the

509
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:57.199
<v Speaker 15>people who've already super chatted. You can do that right here.

510
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.480
<v Speaker 15>I'm hoping to get Protestants. If we don't get Protestants,

511
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:04.480
<v Speaker 15>that's okay. We'll open it up to whoever wants to

512
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:07.920
<v Speaker 15>come on. We've already got about six people in line.

513
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.920
<v Speaker 15>And uh, there's the link to call in. And then wait, no,

514
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.440
<v Speaker 15>that's the link to super chat here, and that's penned

515
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.800
<v Speaker 15>and here's the link to call in. You call in

516
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:25.159
<v Speaker 15>via Twitter spaces. Now, I've already had a pretty a

517
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:28.719
<v Speaker 15>serious amount of coffee today, so I'm already getting at

518
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:33.039
<v Speaker 15>a little too overheated. I better calm down with some

519
00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:36.199
<v Speaker 15>of this Dila monkey. I got a diala Monkey snack

520
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:45.639
<v Speaker 15>right here. Eighth the a snack data bought seven seven seven.

521
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.360
<v Speaker 15>One wants to debate and he's a low tier Protestant.

522
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:54.639
<v Speaker 15>Well ooh, okay, I guess. But you know something I

523
00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:57.880
<v Speaker 15>found is that I would say ninety percent of the

524
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:03.239
<v Speaker 15>time when I have okay, he's unblocked. When I when

525
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:07.639
<v Speaker 15>I blocked people, I was right. There's about two percent

526
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.239
<v Speaker 15>of the cases where maybe I got it wrong, and

527
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:13.360
<v Speaker 15>then in a few instances somebody comes back three four

528
00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:16.280
<v Speaker 15>years later and says, hey, I was an idiot, you

529
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:18.920
<v Speaker 15>were wrong. Will you unblock me. I've had I've had

530
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:23.159
<v Speaker 15>that happen probably five ten times. So maybe I got

531
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:29.559
<v Speaker 15>it wrong. But most of the time, if I if

532
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:33.400
<v Speaker 15>I banned you, I was in the right because you

533
00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:38.159
<v Speaker 15>were dumb, you said dumb stuff, and I have a

534
00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:46.840
<v Speaker 15>very uh quick block mute block mute, black mute. So

535
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:51.000
<v Speaker 15>that's how we roll around here anyway. All right, topics

536
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:53.800
<v Speaker 15>are we're gonna open up right now. I'm gonna quit yapping,

537
00:37:54.039 --> 00:38:04.400
<v Speaker 15>shut up, yapping, dire, shut up. Priority topics are Protestantism, Calvinism, Evangelicalism,

538
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:09.639
<v Speaker 15>church history, soul, scripture of Bible, et cetera. Second tier

539
00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:14.840
<v Speaker 15>priority today Roman Catholicism, papacy, et cetera. And then third

540
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:20.039
<v Speaker 15>tier all the rest of the stuff Muslims, Atheists, Hebrew roots, Judaism,

541
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:22.440
<v Speaker 15>blah blah blah. By the way, you see that there

542
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.039
<v Speaker 15>was a Hebrew roots Bhi dude that came into the

543
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:29.079
<v Speaker 15>last or maybe two debates back. I forget his name,

544
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:35.320
<v Speaker 15>Genesis something good pastor Genesis Anyway, it turns out that

545
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.840
<v Speaker 15>I was insane because he did a stream that when

546
00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:42.519
<v Speaker 15>the Kingdom of the Black Hebewer Israelites come, he's making

547
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:48.000
<v Speaker 15>me his special slave and I'm gonna get a electroshock

548
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:51.280
<v Speaker 15>collar and he's going to whip me so many times

549
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:53.400
<v Speaker 15>that my skin will be flayed off of my back.

550
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:56.000
<v Speaker 15>This is what he says in his life stream. I

551
00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:58.679
<v Speaker 15>didn't realize they're that insane. I thought they just had

552
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.159
<v Speaker 15>this weird sect. They actually think they're going to like

553
00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:06.440
<v Speaker 15>go to war and enslave all the white people. Either

554
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:09.960
<v Speaker 15>that or he's a fed. So this guy's insane. I

555
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:12.440
<v Speaker 15>forget his name, but he's one of these Bhi dudes.

556
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.840
<v Speaker 15>And but I mean, you're talking about people who believe

557
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:21.400
<v Speaker 15>that the word a Jewish means that they're kind of Jewish.

558
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:24.519
<v Speaker 25>Well when that jew but we're kind the Jewish and

559
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:26.400
<v Speaker 25>hence the term Jewish.

560
00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:29.599
<v Speaker 15>You see, they actually believe that that's what that word means.

561
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:33.920
<v Speaker 15>Like these are people who can't do grammar, but their prophets,

562
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:39.039
<v Speaker 15>Like they don't know third grade grammar, but they have

563
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:44.239
<v Speaker 15>the gift of prophecy. I'm not joking, Like that's literally

564
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:47.760
<v Speaker 15>what these people believe. So I think with like, you

565
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:50.119
<v Speaker 15>can't debate those kinds of people, Like if a person

566
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:57.320
<v Speaker 15>can't function like they're this is a new dude though.

567
00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:02.639
<v Speaker 15>Right he's a Jewish guy debating a black heuber Israelite.

568
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.480
<v Speaker 15>That would be a funny. I could do like both

569
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.960
<v Speaker 15>sides of that debate, and that would be that would

570
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:12.519
<v Speaker 15>be fire, dude. All right, let's open it up. Priority

571
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:15.719
<v Speaker 15>goes to the Prats today. Shout out to my Protestant

572
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:23.280
<v Speaker 15>brothers and sisters, psychros sisters. All right, we got Jacob Now,

573
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:27.719
<v Speaker 15>I've been seeing him tweeting over here. What's Jacob got

574
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:32.639
<v Speaker 15>on his mind? Shout out to yaku.

575
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:34.800
<v Speaker 6>Hey, what's up, Jake?

576
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:39.239
<v Speaker 15>Who would win in a debate between an Orthodox Jewish

577
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:40.480
<v Speaker 15>rabbi and Yakoub?

578
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:43.719
<v Speaker 6>Depends on the day.

579
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:46.599
<v Speaker 15>I think I got like if it was the Sabbath

580
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:50.920
<v Speaker 15>and he couldn't debate exactly? Okay, what's on your mind? Dog?

581
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.639
<v Speaker 6>So actually not really here to debate. I'm actually I

582
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 6>have a great.

583
00:40:56.599 --> 00:41:00.480
<v Speaker 26>Interest in Orthodoxy, but I was raised Protestant and so

584
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:02.840
<v Speaker 26>figured out to ask you a couple questions. First, one

585
00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:06.719
<v Speaker 26>is when it comes to veneration, which is something that's

586
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:13.480
<v Speaker 26>super foreign to Protestants. This this idea of latria versus Julia,

587
00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:20.840
<v Speaker 26>honor and worship I pulled up in Revelation. Let's see

588
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:27.400
<v Speaker 26>sixteen verse two, the word worship, I'm gonna try to

589
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:33.079
<v Speaker 26>pronounce it proscanello, right, So Proscanillo here. I'm curious as

590
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:37.199
<v Speaker 26>I'm looking through all of the different links to Proscanillo

591
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:41.559
<v Speaker 26>all throughout the Old and New Testament. There's two use cases,

592
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:47.000
<v Speaker 26>and the first proper as of God, Christ and super

593
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:49.760
<v Speaker 26>mundane beings, and I see all of these having to

594
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:53.840
<v Speaker 26>do with worship that is only unto God. And the

595
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:58.199
<v Speaker 26>second one, it seems, you know, it says of homage

596
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:02.679
<v Speaker 26>to human superiors. So I can see kind of a

597
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:06.039
<v Speaker 26>delineation there. But when I click on some of these

598
00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:11.800
<v Speaker 26>second case usages for paying homage to human superiors x

599
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:15.960
<v Speaker 26>ten point fifteen x ten twenty five. When Peter entered,

600
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.559
<v Speaker 26>Cornelius met him and fell down as if he'd worshiped him,

601
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:21.039
<v Speaker 26>but Peter lifted him up, saying, stand up.

602
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:21.920
<v Speaker 6>I to him man.

603
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:26.880
<v Speaker 15>So it's not so a lot of times what Protestants do,

604
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:28.920
<v Speaker 15>and I'm not faulting you for this, is that they

605
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:31.639
<v Speaker 15>will look up in a Greek dictionary or a lexicon

606
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:35.280
<v Speaker 15>the usage of that term, and then assign a single

607
00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:40.000
<v Speaker 15>sense to that term. So we could say that I revere,

608
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:46.320
<v Speaker 15>I honor, I give homage, I venerate like all of

609
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:53.280
<v Speaker 15>those terms could mean different things. So do I honor God? Yes? Okay,

610
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:55.920
<v Speaker 15>honor your father mother? Do you honor God the father? Sure?

611
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:58.960
<v Speaker 15>Do I honor them with the same honor? No? So

612
00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:02.320
<v Speaker 15>the terms are not the things that are going to

613
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.559
<v Speaker 15>tell you the theological meanings. And this is what a

614
00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:07.079
<v Speaker 15>lot of times Protestants get backwards. And that's why, for example,

615
00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:14.119
<v Speaker 15>Joseph he bows before Pharaoh, right, Elisha bows before Elijah.

616
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:20.000
<v Speaker 15>Joshua bows before the arc of the covenant in Joshua seven.

617
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:24.800
<v Speaker 15>So the action itself, the bodily action, is not itself

618
00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:30.199
<v Speaker 15>the essence of what constitutes latria or dulia. It's what's

619
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:32.320
<v Speaker 15>in the mind and the heart. And that's why Jesus

620
00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:35.079
<v Speaker 15>says that idolatry and other things proceed from the heart

621
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:38.079
<v Speaker 15>of man, not just from what goes into the mouth

622
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:41.480
<v Speaker 15>or by extension, is not just bodily actions. So when

623
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:46.039
<v Speaker 15>there's a bowing before the angels, and the angels say,

624
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:49.320
<v Speaker 15>do not worship me, I am another creature like you,

625
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.679
<v Speaker 15>that's signifying the point that you do not give the

626
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.960
<v Speaker 15>same honor to created things that you do to the

627
00:43:56.079 --> 00:44:00.440
<v Speaker 15>uncreated allah of God. So it's really not determined by

628
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:07.440
<v Speaker 15>specific Greek words. The Latin Church developed that distinction, particularly

629
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:11.800
<v Speaker 15>if you read something like Saint Jerome's essay against Helvigius,

630
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:16.679
<v Speaker 15>which is, if I recall that's the one about relics,

631
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:19.079
<v Speaker 15>and he points out that the honor that we give

632
00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:21.960
<v Speaker 15>to the relics is like the honor that you would

633
00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:25.239
<v Speaker 15>give to father and mother, or to anyone else that

634
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:28.840
<v Speaker 15>deserves authority, but they deserve more honor because they're above

635
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:31.119
<v Speaker 15>even earthly authorities. And so if it's proper in the

636
00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:35.039
<v Speaker 15>ancient medieval world to bow before a king or a magistrate,

637
00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:38.119
<v Speaker 15>how much more proper is it to bow before you know,

638
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:40.679
<v Speaker 15>the kings and magistrates of God's kingdom, the saints.

639
00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:45.039
<v Speaker 26>So would you say, essentially, it does come down to

640
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:49.519
<v Speaker 26>the heart of a person, and it's individualized case by case.

641
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:56.039
<v Speaker 26>That's really really not distinguishable for most people externally, Like

642
00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:56.920
<v Speaker 26>would you agree with well.

643
00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.800
<v Speaker 15>I would say that in many cases, you know, say

644
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:03.079
<v Speaker 15>we're where we go to some pagan region and everybody's

645
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:07.159
<v Speaker 15>bowing down to an idol. It would be the case

646
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.920
<v Speaker 15>that most likely pretty much everybody there that's bowing down

647
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:14.000
<v Speaker 15>is committing idolatry, because in their hearts they do conceive

648
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:17.039
<v Speaker 15>of that idol as having mystical power or being divine,

649
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:21.559
<v Speaker 15>or animism or polytheism or something like that. So yeah,

650
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:25.039
<v Speaker 15>in certain cases, the majority of the body actions would

651
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:28.599
<v Speaker 15>be idolatry, but it can't be in all cases, because

652
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:32.599
<v Speaker 15>it's not idolatrous for Joshua and all the elders of

653
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:36.519
<v Speaker 15>Israel to bow down before the arc and prostration. If

654
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:39.840
<v Speaker 15>the essence of idolatry is the bodily action.

655
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:43.039
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, okay, it makes sense too, and it's cool to see.

656
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:47.679
<v Speaker 26>I think it's later in Revelation the verse where God

657
00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:52.199
<v Speaker 26>actually says that he will command those to bow down

658
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:55.480
<v Speaker 26>at the feet of those he loves, all right, So

659
00:45:56.360 --> 00:45:58.440
<v Speaker 26>it's a cool distinction, So I appreciate that.

660
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:00.639
<v Speaker 15>And then yeah, I highly reckoon men. By the way,

661
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:04.119
<v Speaker 15>though Jerome's essay. Have you read that? No, it's not

662
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:06.599
<v Speaker 15>very very long. I highly recommend It'll give you a

663
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:11.119
<v Speaker 15>good four fifth century insight into what the church in

664
00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:13.880
<v Speaker 15>Saint Jerome's day thought about these things. Is I'm pretty

665
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:16.000
<v Speaker 15>sure it's against televidios. I could look it up, but

666
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:19.719
<v Speaker 15>it might be against vigilantius. There's two one is against

667
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:22.239
<v Speaker 15>one is about the perpetual virginity, and then the other

668
00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:23.159
<v Speaker 15>one is about relics.

669
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:25.000
<v Speaker 6>So okay cool.

670
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:28.320
<v Speaker 26>And then to tap into that, because it flows perfectly

671
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:34.639
<v Speaker 26>is with generation and with especially specifically veneration of theotokos

672
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:39.880
<v Speaker 26>being at this elevated even elevated higher about the saints.

673
00:46:41.079 --> 00:46:42.800
<v Speaker 6>One of my main trip ups right now, because like

674
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:43.400
<v Speaker 6>I said.

675
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:48.679
<v Speaker 26>I'm very well thinking about becoming a catechumen soon and

676
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:51.320
<v Speaker 26>one of the biggest things that's kind of I'm ulling

677
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:55.800
<v Speaker 26>over my mind is the generation of theotokos because that man,

678
00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:58.880
<v Speaker 26>some of the things I'm reading in the liturgies these

679
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.360
<v Speaker 26>liturgy books are like wow. And when I'm reading Saint

680
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:08.360
<v Speaker 26>Clement Ignacious justin Martyr. You know, these very first first

681
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:14.679
<v Speaker 26>guys in the one hundreds, none of them mentioned theotokos,

682
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:16.599
<v Speaker 26>I think, like at all.

683
00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:18.519
<v Speaker 6>So I just had like this.

684
00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:21.360
<v Speaker 26>It's so exparagement where I'm like, yeah, what's what's going

685
00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:23.159
<v Speaker 26>on there?

686
00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:27.800
<v Speaker 15>So nobody uh So, there's countless things that even Protestants

687
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:31.440
<v Speaker 15>believe that the first second century church fathers, even third

688
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:34.039
<v Speaker 15>centery church fathers don't mention. For example, there's no first second,

689
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:37.519
<v Speaker 15>third century church father that lists the entire Protestant Canon

690
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:41.360
<v Speaker 15>of Scripture. So the idea that there's there's this expectation

691
00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:45.880
<v Speaker 15>of every controversy or every theological issue having some explicit

692
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:49.800
<v Speaker 15>written reference is kind of impossible, unworkable, and it's a

693
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:54.559
<v Speaker 15>kind of a double standard. Theotokos is not used specifically

694
00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:58.360
<v Speaker 15>until Saint Cyril and the Council of Ephesus. It's a

695
00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:02.000
<v Speaker 15>term that he uses to encapsulate the role that she

696
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:04.639
<v Speaker 15>has as the one that gave birth according to his

697
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:08.840
<v Speaker 15>human nature to the divine person, the logos. So it

698
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:12.360
<v Speaker 15>takes on a specific theological precision at Ephesus in four

699
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:15.360
<v Speaker 15>thirty one, And so we wouldn't expect that that term

700
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:20.159
<v Speaker 15>would have a priority before it became a theological dispute.

701
00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:23.639
<v Speaker 15>A lot of things in church history don't get precisely

702
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:27.320
<v Speaker 15>quote defined until there's a dispute about it. So we

703
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:31.800
<v Speaker 15>might reason that there was no dispute about the theotokos

704
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:35.480
<v Speaker 15>until the reason there wasn't a bunch of writing about

705
00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:38.280
<v Speaker 15>it was that is not really disputed yet. But For example,

706
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:41.800
<v Speaker 15>in one pint eighty you begin to see massive disputes

707
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:46.159
<v Speaker 15>about the liturgical calendar right with the cortadesseminarians. So that

708
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:49.679
<v Speaker 15>tells us that there was already a liturgical calendar in

709
00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:53.440
<v Speaker 15>the mid second century, right, which is contra Protestanism. So

710
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:59.760
<v Speaker 15>point being that there's not. It's unrealistic to expect, and

711
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:02.559
<v Speaker 15>no Protestant actually holds up for their position either that

712
00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:07.639
<v Speaker 15>there's some written record of every theological problem or issue

713
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:10.559
<v Speaker 15>in the first and second century. I mean, some of

714
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:13.880
<v Speaker 15>those first second century church fathers, unless they are speaking alligorically,

715
00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:17.920
<v Speaker 15>also made theological mistakes, like if they if they're teaching premillennialism,

716
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:20.199
<v Speaker 15>so what right.

717
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:25.400
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, And then just kind

718
00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:29.079
<v Speaker 6>of a much smaller question.

719
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:33.480
<v Speaker 26>But even like when when reading about Justice justin Martyr,

720
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:37.800
<v Speaker 26>he does seem to have an emphasis on teaching and

721
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:41.760
<v Speaker 26>reading of the Word, and you know, in the weekly gatherings,

722
00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:45.880
<v Speaker 26>which it seems like divine liturgy as I've briefly known.

723
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:48.320
<v Speaker 6>It does not seem to have the same emphasis.

724
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:50.920
<v Speaker 26>Would you just say, you know, well, now we just

725
00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:53.079
<v Speaker 26>break it up into different parts of our weeks, and

726
00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:56.559
<v Speaker 26>or maybe it was it was just historical context.

727
00:49:56.960 --> 00:49:58.920
<v Speaker 15>Well, it's up to you hold on so that. I

728
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:00.760
<v Speaker 15>don't think that's true at all. It's to you to

729
00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:03.719
<v Speaker 15>whether you choose to follow the daily readings or not.

730
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:06.960
<v Speaker 15>And then at the liturgy itself, maybe you didn't hear

731
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:11.199
<v Speaker 15>or weren't paying attention. But everything that's sung is scripture.

732
00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:15.519
<v Speaker 15>So I'm not trying to be rude, but did you

733
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:20.119
<v Speaker 15>not pay attention? Like the movable psalms that come in

734
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:22.480
<v Speaker 15>and out are based on where we are in the

735
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:25.280
<v Speaker 15>liturgical season, and all of that is scripture. And if

736
00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:27.280
<v Speaker 15>you read the Orthodox Study Bible, you're going to notice

737
00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:29.880
<v Speaker 15>that as you read through, for example, the Book of Psalms,

738
00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:33.440
<v Speaker 15>tons and tons and tons of these psalms are chanted

739
00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:41.559
<v Speaker 15>throughout the various liturgical celebrations Epiphany, right, Christmas, Nativity, like,

740
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:44.519
<v Speaker 15>tons of these psalms are sung throughout this, So the

741
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:46.679
<v Speaker 15>entire thing is singing scripture. So I don't know where

742
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:47.199
<v Speaker 15>you're getting at.

743
00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:49.599
<v Speaker 26>Yeah, yeah, well, I guess maybe it just comes down

744
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:54.159
<v Speaker 26>to homily, the homily itself, like somebody in authority, the priest,

745
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:58.840
<v Speaker 26>walking through the applications of scripture, things like that.

746
00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:01.239
<v Speaker 6>But yeah, you're right as far as.

747
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:05.159
<v Speaker 15>Well, But every service includes a reading from the epistles

748
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:08.920
<v Speaker 15>and a reading of the Gospels, and then there's every

749
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:11.519
<v Speaker 15>now and then you'll find based on certain situations the

750
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:13.719
<v Speaker 15>priest doesn't do it homily, but they usually do so.

751
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:18.440
<v Speaker 15>For example, this last Sunday, we had a pretty lengthy

752
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:23.239
<v Speaker 15>homily on love and the Gospel, so out of the Gospel.

753
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:27.639
<v Speaker 15>So I don't I don't know what you mean, Okay, cool,

754
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:29.039
<v Speaker 15>I'm not trying to be rude. I just like I

755
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:32.639
<v Speaker 15>don't understand the like the idea that maybe you mean

756
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:35.440
<v Speaker 15>that they don't do like Protestant exegetical Bible studies. Is

757
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:36.159
<v Speaker 15>that what you're friends here?

758
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.679
<v Speaker 26>Yeah, yeah, I mean exactly, just just coming from a

759
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:42.719
<v Speaker 26>Protestant perspective in the background, there's such an emphasis on,

760
00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:47.639
<v Speaker 26>right that that forty five minutes long homily, right compared

761
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:51.400
<v Speaker 26>to these past few weeks. Yeah, like you said, five

762
00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:53.599
<v Speaker 26>to ten minutes, fifteen minutes maybe tops.

763
00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:54.840
<v Speaker 6>It's just not an emphasis.

764
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:57.760
<v Speaker 26>So something that I'm noticing and curious about as I

765
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:01.280
<v Speaker 26>read like justin Marter and his brief mention of you

766
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:02.679
<v Speaker 26>know what these Sundays look like.

767
00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:06.719
<v Speaker 15>I think those Sunday but those Sundays are liturgical celebrations,

768
00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:09.920
<v Speaker 15>even in Justin Martyr that culminate in the Eucharist according to.

769
00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:14.400
<v Speaker 26>Him, right, okay, right, And and that's one of the

770
00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:18.760
<v Speaker 26>things I appreciate most and attracted to most about Orthodox

771
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:22.320
<v Speaker 26>he is the emphasis and revolving around the Holy Sacraments

772
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:23.480
<v Speaker 26>and specifically the Eucharist.

773
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:24.400
<v Speaker 6>So that's cool.

774
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:27.360
<v Speaker 26>Cool, And then I'm trying to think if there's anything

775
00:52:27.400 --> 00:52:30.400
<v Speaker 26>else you answered my question about you know Mary, and

776
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:32.760
<v Speaker 26>that that really is probably the biggest hangout.

777
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:34.559
<v Speaker 15>Have you seen the video I did a forty minute

778
00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:38.440
<v Speaker 15>video on the biblical view of Mary?

779
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.039
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I actually think I did a couple of weeks back.

780
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:45.880
<v Speaker 26>Is that with the Ark of the Covenant as the Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

781
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:49.639
<v Speaker 26>that was cool. Yeah, awesome. Just to tap in one

782
00:52:49.639 --> 00:52:54.440
<v Speaker 26>more question would be when it comes to the story

783
00:52:54.519 --> 00:52:58.159
<v Speaker 26>when when the woman yells out to Jesus and or

784
00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:00.800
<v Speaker 26>his disciples and says, blessed is you know the mother

785
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:05.199
<v Speaker 26>who he's nursed at her breast and whatnot? And he

786
00:53:05.320 --> 00:53:10.760
<v Speaker 26>doesn't rebuke her, but he says, rather bless her are

787
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:14.360
<v Speaker 26>those who to do you know, who do the Lord's.

788
00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:15.280
<v Speaker 6>Will, who follow me?

789
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:19.360
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, she fits the double blessing. That's the point. So

790
00:53:20.119 --> 00:53:27.039
<v Speaker 15>it's not like no, she's not blessed for being my mother. Rather,

791
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:30.360
<v Speaker 15>it's these things. It's rather blessed are those who do both.

792
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:32.679
<v Speaker 15>And she did both. That's why she's the new Eve.

793
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:34.360
<v Speaker 15>As Aaron AA.

794
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:39.079
<v Speaker 26>Says, cool, Well, thanks appreciate it, Ja, Yeah, and I

795
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:41.480
<v Speaker 26>think I mean Revelation twelve also, I mean, I think

796
00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:43.599
<v Speaker 26>it makes it really clear that she's exalted to.

797
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:46.800
<v Speaker 15>Be the queen of Heaven. And the reason for that

798
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:51.599
<v Speaker 15>is precisely because if you look at the typology, you'll

799
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:53.920
<v Speaker 15>look back in the Old Testament, you'll see multiple types

800
00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:58.119
<v Speaker 15>of Mary, and Protestants miss this. But Sarah is a

801
00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:03.239
<v Speaker 15>type of Mary, Hannah is a type of Mary. And

802
00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:07.920
<v Speaker 15>the Magnificat prophesies that all generations would call her the

803
00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:12.400
<v Speaker 15>blessed Mother. And that's precisely the thing that Protestants stopped doing,

804
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:17.000
<v Speaker 15>especially as you know, Protestantism evolved into more radical forms.

805
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:20.159
<v Speaker 15>I mean, Luther probably still called her the blessed Mother

806
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:25.480
<v Speaker 15>at the Tokos, But as Protestism progress progresses, they literally

807
00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:28.679
<v Speaker 15>just break with the entire tradition of even the Protestants,

808
00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:33.440
<v Speaker 15>like the classical Reformers believed in perpetual virginity, and then

809
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:36.400
<v Speaker 15>they just discarded that and then, oh, no, we don't

810
00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:38.679
<v Speaker 15>have to. But look, here's the reason for a lot

811
00:54:38.679 --> 00:54:40.840
<v Speaker 15>of this is this is something that Protestants don't understand,

812
00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:44.000
<v Speaker 15>is that the Bible was not primarily meant to be

813
00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:47.880
<v Speaker 15>your study text. There's nothing wrong with studying the Bible

814
00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:50.599
<v Speaker 15>and having that as your daily reading and all that.

815
00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:53.400
<v Speaker 15>That's what you're supposed to do. But the actual proper

816
00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:56.599
<v Speaker 15>context is to be heard in the liturgy, and that's

817
00:54:56.599 --> 00:54:59.559
<v Speaker 15>something that Protestants just can't fathom. But the weird part

818
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:02.639
<v Speaker 15>that they're not aware of is that you actually have

819
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:06.360
<v Speaker 15>to go to the ancient liturgical texts to know in

820
00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:10.039
<v Speaker 15>part what the Bible canon is. These are called the electionaries,

821
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:13.400
<v Speaker 15>and so as the Church was forming and debating the

822
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:16.800
<v Speaker 15>canon of scripture, one of the things that Protestant scholars

823
00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:19.960
<v Speaker 15>admit they went back to, not the president scholars, but

824
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:22.960
<v Speaker 15>the church fathers. What they looked to was the daily readings,

825
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:26.920
<v Speaker 15>the electionaries. Those are liturgical texts. Liturgical texts had a

826
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.159
<v Speaker 15>huge role in canonicity. And once I learned that and

827
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:33.119
<v Speaker 15>saw F. F. Bruce Lee MacDonald, all these Protestant scholars

828
00:55:33.159 --> 00:55:35.880
<v Speaker 15>admitting that that was one of the ways that I

829
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:39.440
<v Speaker 15>exited Protestantism because they are admitting that it's not just

830
00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:43.039
<v Speaker 15>a matter of the early Church going to people's basements

831
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:49.440
<v Speaker 15>and houses and becoming scriptoriums like a bunch of rabbis.

832
00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:53.000
<v Speaker 15>We just sit here with torah, scroll pointers and look

833
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:55.239
<v Speaker 15>at these books all day long. No, no, we eat the book. Now,

834
00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:58.840
<v Speaker 15>we eat the book. How do you eat the book

835
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:02.079
<v Speaker 15>as Ezekiel did prophecy of the New Covenant? How do

836
00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:05.119
<v Speaker 15>you eat the word? Oh, the liturgy exactly, the Eucharist.

837
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:07.159
<v Speaker 15>That's how you eat the word. You don't just read

838
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:09.320
<v Speaker 15>it and bringing it to your mind. You partake of

839
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.360
<v Speaker 15>it for your whole being. And so Protestanism is an

840
00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:17.599
<v Speaker 15>intellectual gnostic position that thinks, like Muslims and Jews, that

841
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:21.679
<v Speaker 15>the salvation is through the paper of the book, when

842
00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:26.800
<v Speaker 15>Ezekiel eats the book, which is a prediction of the Eucharist.

843
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:31.639
<v Speaker 15>Hence John six, all right, I see you were raising

844
00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:32.440
<v Speaker 15>your hand.

845
00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:41.320
<v Speaker 6>Hello, yep, jay, can you hear me?

846
00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:41.679
<v Speaker 15>Yep?

847
00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:46.960
<v Speaker 6>Hey? What's going going on? So?

848
00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:51.519
<v Speaker 16>I am a catech human new Cateauman, but I was

849
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:55.679
<v Speaker 16>raised a Protestant, and for the last ten years I

850
00:56:55.760 --> 00:57:00.719
<v Speaker 16>actually was in a charismatic church or Church, Charismatic group,

851
00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:07.000
<v Speaker 16>and a big part of that, big part of the theology,

852
00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:09.599
<v Speaker 16>I guess, is that you have to speak in tongues,

853
00:57:10.039 --> 00:57:11.920
<v Speaker 16>and they have a they have a term that says

854
00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:17.599
<v Speaker 16>the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of

855
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:21.719
<v Speaker 16>speaking in tongues. So you know that that for me

856
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:24.719
<v Speaker 16>was I grew up non to nom initially, and then

857
00:57:24.760 --> 00:57:26.320
<v Speaker 16>so that for me was kind of like, whoa, this

858
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:29.920
<v Speaker 16>is different, this is wild. And then you look at

859
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:32.800
<v Speaker 16>the they say in Acts two you have the day

860
00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:36.880
<v Speaker 16>of Pentecost, and then they come out speaking tongues. I

861
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:39.719
<v Speaker 16>always had a problem with that because the tongues and

862
00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:43.480
<v Speaker 16>the Charismatic Church is like gibberish, and then the tongues

863
00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:46.679
<v Speaker 16>in Acts two says that the people can hear their

864
00:57:46.679 --> 00:57:48.800
<v Speaker 16>own language. So I always thought there was something weird

865
00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:50.760
<v Speaker 16>about that. But I kind of just you know, you

866
00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:53.199
<v Speaker 16>move along and you pursue God or.

867
00:57:53.159 --> 00:57:58.199
<v Speaker 6>Whatever, and but then but then now, as a.

868
00:57:58.199 --> 00:58:01.679
<v Speaker 16>Kind of human, you know, I I can easily accept Okay,

869
00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:09.239
<v Speaker 16>that was the term zeno glossia as opposed to glossalia.

870
00:58:09.559 --> 00:58:14.000
<v Speaker 16>But I'm seeing in Corinthians there's a part where Paul

871
00:58:14.119 --> 00:58:17.559
<v Speaker 16>is talking about the gift of tongues in being used

872
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:20.440
<v Speaker 16>in worship, and that.

873
00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:24.360
<v Speaker 15>It's just languages, bro, It's just languages. So it's translating

874
00:58:24.880 --> 00:58:28.800
<v Speaker 15>the texts or the message the revelation into various languages,

875
00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:31.559
<v Speaker 15>which is what is done in the Orthodox Church where

876
00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:33.880
<v Speaker 15>everywhere they go they put it into the vernacular. It's

877
00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:36.840
<v Speaker 15>not gibberish, there's no there's no secret angel language that

878
00:58:37.880 --> 00:58:39.679
<v Speaker 15>charismatic heretics are doing.

879
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:42.519
<v Speaker 27>Wow.

880
00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:45.440
<v Speaker 16>Okay, Okay, that that makes perfect sense.

881
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:47.320
<v Speaker 9>And I don't know why that was hard for me too.

882
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:49.920
<v Speaker 15>Yes, it's just it's literally just translating or having the

883
00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:53.960
<v Speaker 15>gift of knowing and translating languages, or maybe even if

884
00:58:53.960 --> 00:58:56.480
<v Speaker 15>you're not academic, like it could be like at Pentzeco,

885
00:58:56.559 --> 00:59:02.159
<v Speaker 15>it's the miraculous event where the languages are understood, right right.

886
00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:05.199
<v Speaker 6>Okay, cool?

887
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:08.239
<v Speaker 16>Yeah, So that was that was a bit kind of

888
00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:09.840
<v Speaker 16>like a not a stumbling.

889
00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:11.159
<v Speaker 9>Block for me, but just a question that I had.

890
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:14.559
<v Speaker 16>And I'll agree that things that you've been saying a

891
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:18.440
<v Speaker 16>lot of really good things already so far about Protestantism

892
00:59:18.519 --> 00:59:21.480
<v Speaker 16>and how like, for instance, it's not the Bible is

893
00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:24.000
<v Speaker 16>not like a study a study book that you take

894
00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:26.639
<v Speaker 16>home and you read, and I feel like the like

895
00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:30.880
<v Speaker 16>Protestants in me included, it's it's a matter of just

896
00:59:31.400 --> 00:59:32.760
<v Speaker 16>almost like throwing.

897
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:35.880
<v Speaker 28>Away all these ways.

898
00:59:35.440 --> 00:59:37.920
<v Speaker 16>That you read the Bible and you have to like

899
00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:39.119
<v Speaker 16>redo the whole thing.

900
00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:40.440
<v Speaker 9>It's really hard for.

901
00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:46.440
<v Speaker 6>A lot of people to do that. But yeah, for me,

902
00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:47.760
<v Speaker 6>as a coming from the.

903
00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:50.440
<v Speaker 16>Charismatic Church, you know, there's a huge focus on like

904
00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:55.280
<v Speaker 16>worshiping God and just pursuing God in like an unabandoned

905
00:59:55.400 --> 00:59:55.920
<v Speaker 16>kind of way.

906
00:59:56.639 --> 01:00:00.280
<v Speaker 6>So coming to Orthodoxy.

907
01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:05.119
<v Speaker 9>Also was very easy for me too, because.

908
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:07.840
<v Speaker 16>I'm like, Okay, all of that stuff that I learned,

909
01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:11.679
<v Speaker 16>I can just throw that away and just worship God

910
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:14.679
<v Speaker 16>and just focus on the liturgy. So would you say

911
01:00:14.679 --> 01:00:20.480
<v Speaker 16>that the liturgy is the greatest way to learn Orthodoxy?

912
01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:21.960
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, I mean you're going to learn it when you

913
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:25.000
<v Speaker 15>attend and when you're in the that's the best categorizer.

914
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:27.880
<v Speaker 15>I mean, you'll have catechises too, but I mean the liturgy.

915
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:30.280
<v Speaker 15>The liturgy will teach you that theology in a very

916
01:00:30.320 --> 01:00:32.679
<v Speaker 15>profound quick way if you pay attention.

917
01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:36.159
<v Speaker 16>To it, right right, right, Okay, Well that was really

918
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:38.760
<v Speaker 16>just a big question that I had, what I've been

919
01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:40.679
<v Speaker 16>thinking about for a while, So I appreciate it thank.

920
01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:47.719
<v Speaker 15>You, sure, thank you. Yeah, those are good questions. I

921
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:50.800
<v Speaker 15>think a lot of people assume that the quote languages

922
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:56.400
<v Speaker 15>in First Corinthians are some sort of weird gibberish or

923
01:00:56.480 --> 01:01:01.639
<v Speaker 15>secret Gnostic thing. I've seen some exegesis from the Orthodox

924
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:05.800
<v Speaker 15>perspective that Paul's talking about noetic prayer. So that's a possibility.

925
01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:10.719
<v Speaker 15>But the sign of Pentecost, if you look back to Isaiah,

926
01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:15.400
<v Speaker 15>I think it's Isaiah twenty let me see twenty two

927
01:01:17.639 --> 01:01:24.360
<v Speaker 15>or twenty four, let me see. So when Pentecost happens,

928
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:26.480
<v Speaker 15>it's actually a fulfillment of a bunch of things in

929
01:01:26.480 --> 01:01:28.760
<v Speaker 15>the Old Testament, not least of which is the feast

930
01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:35.639
<v Speaker 15>of Towernacles and Pentecosts. Right, So in Isaiah twenty nine

931
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:38.679
<v Speaker 15>and twenty eight, depending on which I think this might

932
01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:42.480
<v Speaker 15>differ in the masoretic versus the septuagen but twenty twenty

933
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:46.800
<v Speaker 15>nine you have mentions of the speaking in another language

934
01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:50.239
<v Speaker 15>which will be assigned to the Jews. And Pentecost is

935
01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:52.760
<v Speaker 15>the reversal of Babel, right, because you have the confusion

936
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:57.840
<v Speaker 15>of languages at the Tower Babbel Genesis ten, and then

937
01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:01.199
<v Speaker 15>you have the reversal of which, by the way, is

938
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:04.360
<v Speaker 15>explaining the Orthodox liturgy. Pentecost is the reversal of Babel

939
01:02:04.760 --> 01:02:08.280
<v Speaker 15>to bring everyone back together in unity. And it would

940
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:12.320
<v Speaker 15>make no sense if it's gibberish in Acts two. So

941
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:16.639
<v Speaker 15>the languages in Acts two have to be known, miraculous

942
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:20.599
<v Speaker 15>understanding of a bunch of people speaking different languages to

943
01:02:20.599 --> 01:02:25.000
<v Speaker 15>be understood in one unified way. And that's the fulfillment

944
01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:27.519
<v Speaker 15>of Isaiah twenty eight twenty nine that it's a sign

945
01:02:27.639 --> 01:02:31.880
<v Speaker 15>to the Jews when you see this miraculous reversal of

946
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:35.679
<v Speaker 15>Babel and the language is being understood, that means it's

947
01:02:35.719 --> 01:02:46.960
<v Speaker 15>not gibberish, unknown angel language stoic. So to the people

948
01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:50.440
<v Speaker 15>talking smack in the chat, if you can't come defend

949
01:02:50.440 --> 01:02:53.000
<v Speaker 15>your positions, then you're just wasting your times. It's not

950
01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:55.199
<v Speaker 15>a place for you to spam. So we asked that

951
01:02:55.239 --> 01:02:58.199
<v Speaker 15>you come to debate, don't lie, and so that you

952
01:02:58.199 --> 01:02:59.719
<v Speaker 15>don't know what Twitter is or how to call in

953
01:02:59.719 --> 01:03:01.840
<v Speaker 15>on Twitter. All you do is click into the room.

954
01:03:02.360 --> 01:03:04.639
<v Speaker 15>There's the link right there. Otherwise, why are you wasting

955
01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:07.440
<v Speaker 15>everybody's time? And I recognize your name, Kyle. You've been

956
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:09.719
<v Speaker 15>like I've been over here for a long I've seen

957
01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:11.559
<v Speaker 15>your name for years? What do you what is this

958
01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:14.800
<v Speaker 15>low tier crap that you're saying that you don't know

959
01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:17.960
<v Speaker 15>how to call in on Twitter and that I'm I'm

960
01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:23.719
<v Speaker 15>a Calvinist, Larking is Orthodox and this is like how

961
01:03:23.719 --> 01:03:25.840
<v Speaker 15>many years do I have to be in the Orthodox

962
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:28.360
<v Speaker 15>Church before like people stop saying stupid shit like this.

963
01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:32.840
<v Speaker 15>I mean it's like seven eight years. Come on, Stoic,

964
01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:33.519
<v Speaker 15>what's up on you?

965
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:38.199
<v Speaker 6>Hey? Yeah, I was just calling in.

966
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:41.119
<v Speaker 29>I have some questions about Catholicism because so I actually

967
01:03:41.159 --> 01:03:43.800
<v Speaker 29>grew up Eastern Orthodox, but I just so I have

968
01:03:43.880 --> 01:03:46.480
<v Speaker 29>some people personally close to me that have kind of

969
01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:47.440
<v Speaker 29>like bought into like.

970
01:03:47.599 --> 01:03:50.239
<v Speaker 6>Hemism and you know, like bought into what.

971
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:56.079
<v Speaker 29>Palmism, you know, and like Roman Catholic doctor and in general.

972
01:03:56.599 --> 01:03:58.960
<v Speaker 15>Well, let me ask you the first question. First question

973
01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:01.719
<v Speaker 15>before you move on. Do you think that the modern

974
01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:05.119
<v Speaker 15>Vatican has cared about Tomism for the last seventy eight years?

975
01:04:05.760 --> 01:04:06.440
<v Speaker 5>No, not at all.

976
01:04:06.519 --> 01:04:10.320
<v Speaker 29>Now, sure ahead, Yeah, I'm just curious, like when did

977
01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:15.159
<v Speaker 29>the approach of like Roman Catholicism become so much more

978
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:19.320
<v Speaker 29>like legalistic than Eastern Christianity.

979
01:04:20.039 --> 01:04:21.920
<v Speaker 15>I don't think there's one point. There's a kind of

980
01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:25.760
<v Speaker 15>an ongoing evolution over time. As to why the Latin

981
01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:29.760
<v Speaker 15>Church took on that attitude, you could look to the

982
01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:35.480
<v Speaker 15>tendency in Rome itself to favor organizational structure and authority,

983
01:04:36.320 --> 01:04:39.360
<v Speaker 15>whereas in the East, generally speaking, you had a much

984
01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:42.960
<v Speaker 15>more metaphysically minded discussion. I mean, even the Roman poets

985
01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:46.519
<v Speaker 15>and Roman philosophers are very practical and very interested in,

986
01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:49.159
<v Speaker 15>you know, the imperium. If you look at the Stoics

987
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:51.079
<v Speaker 15>or if you look at Marcus Aurelius, they're not interested in

988
01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:53.440
<v Speaker 15>a lot of metaphysical speculation. But if you go to

989
01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:56.920
<v Speaker 15>the Greek mind, do you have a lot more metaphysics,

990
01:04:56.920 --> 01:04:59.440
<v Speaker 15>a lot more you know, Plato aristotl discussing stuff that

991
01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:02.239
<v Speaker 15>the Roman don't really care about. So I think that

992
01:05:02.440 --> 01:05:06.280
<v Speaker 15>the Roman attitude and mind of organizational structure and legality

993
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:10.119
<v Speaker 15>played a key role in the formation and influence of

994
01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:13.960
<v Speaker 15>the Western Church, the Latin Church. And then I think

995
01:05:14.039 --> 01:05:19.519
<v Speaker 15>that after Augustine you get presuppositions in his theology that

996
01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:23.039
<v Speaker 15>maybe he didn't himself necessarily hold to, but that over

997
01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:26.559
<v Speaker 15>time led to more and more strict legalities. For example,

998
01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:30.599
<v Speaker 15>all infants are damned because they're damned in atom everyone's

999
01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:33.760
<v Speaker 15>in atom and so in the Augustinian position, there's this

1000
01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:37.400
<v Speaker 15>sort of legal attitude that everybody is an atom, as

1001
01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:39.679
<v Speaker 15>in an archetype, including all the future infants, and they're

1002
01:05:39.719 --> 01:05:42.800
<v Speaker 15>automatically de facto damned. It's called the mass dam nata doctrine.

1003
01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:46.079
<v Speaker 15>It's not even controversial. It's well known that he taught this.

1004
01:05:47.679 --> 01:05:50.639
<v Speaker 15>So those things develop over time, and then you eventually

1005
01:05:50.679 --> 01:05:54.960
<v Speaker 15>get things like and some satisfaction view which is influenced

1006
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:58.000
<v Speaker 15>by some of these ideas, and then eventually you get

1007
01:05:58.159 --> 01:06:03.679
<v Speaker 15>you know, high tier just total dictatus pope, you know,

1008
01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:07.000
<v Speaker 15>unam Suncam you have to hold to, you know, all

1009
01:06:07.039 --> 01:06:10.920
<v Speaker 15>these legalities of the Western Latin system's view of the

1010
01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:13.519
<v Speaker 15>pope as a world emperor or else you're lost.

1011
01:06:15.320 --> 01:06:15.800
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

1012
01:06:16.079 --> 01:06:18.320
<v Speaker 29>Yeah, And I guess it's just really confusing because I

1013
01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:20.400
<v Speaker 29>was watching a live term reviewers from a Complete or

1014
01:06:20.679 --> 01:06:23.519
<v Speaker 29>last June when the papal was called the Bishop of

1015
01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:28.119
<v Speaker 29>Rome premiacy document came out that Yeah, and it's just

1016
01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:31.599
<v Speaker 29>really confusing because it seems like like the message and tone,

1017
01:06:31.960 --> 01:06:34.639
<v Speaker 29>like post was a post concilliar era just continues to

1018
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:38.000
<v Speaker 29>do this thing where they act like they you know,

1019
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:40.920
<v Speaker 29>they're continuing to be legalistic, but like, didn't what you

1020
01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:42.960
<v Speaker 29>just referenced about like infants being damned?

1021
01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:44.360
<v Speaker 6>Did they like backtrack on that?

1022
01:06:44.559 --> 01:06:47.559
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, if you read the new document from the Vatican

1023
01:06:47.639 --> 01:06:49.920
<v Speaker 15>on limbo from a few years ago, it says that

1024
01:06:49.960 --> 01:06:51.280
<v Speaker 15>you don't even have to believe that anymore.

1025
01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:53.800
<v Speaker 29>But how I don't get how they can keep like

1026
01:06:53.840 --> 01:06:55.119
<v Speaker 29>I don't want to, you know, the meme, like how

1027
01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:56.199
<v Speaker 29>do they keep getting away with this?

1028
01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:00.719
<v Speaker 15>Like because they pray on the but because it's a

1029
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:04.159
<v Speaker 15>strong delusion that the followers won't be honest with themselves

1030
01:07:04.239 --> 01:07:06.480
<v Speaker 15>and they want to. I mean, there's all kinds of

1031
01:07:06.519 --> 01:07:08.800
<v Speaker 15>reasons why people don't leave it, but I mean a

1032
01:07:08.840 --> 01:07:11.880
<v Speaker 15>lot of people feel like they can solve the system

1033
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.440
<v Speaker 15>or rescue it, and they take on this idiotic project

1034
01:07:14.519 --> 01:07:16.519
<v Speaker 15>of trying to make it all work and some sort

1035
01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:18.760
<v Speaker 15>of giant out like there will like they're goodwill hunting

1036
01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:21.239
<v Speaker 15>and they're Matt Damon, they're gonna walk in, you know,

1037
01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:24.239
<v Speaker 15>from being a janitor and like solve this giant papal

1038
01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:27.000
<v Speaker 15>nonsense equation on the math talkboard or whatever.

1039
01:07:28.039 --> 01:07:30.079
<v Speaker 29>Yeah, because like between that and then like with the

1040
01:07:30.079 --> 01:07:32.360
<v Speaker 29>whole legalistic approach, when when I heard you like talk

1041
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:36.159
<v Speaker 29>about the monarchical you know, structure of the Trinity.

1042
01:07:36.199 --> 01:07:36.599
<v Speaker 6>I wouldn't.

1043
01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:39.440
<v Speaker 29>I wasn't very well kind of guys growing up Eastern Orthodox.

1044
01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:42.440
<v Speaker 29>I guess I'm grateful I was Orthodox.

1045
01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:43.719
<v Speaker 6>But like I just don't.

1046
01:07:44.119 --> 01:07:47.000
<v Speaker 29>I'm trying to understand how like what it seems like

1047
01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:49.079
<v Speaker 29>you're saying, there wasn't really an inflection point, but there's

1048
01:07:49.159 --> 01:07:52.000
<v Speaker 29>these things that maybe were understood for a long time

1049
01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:55.480
<v Speaker 29>in Eastern Orthodoxy that just changed at some point like overtime.

1050
01:07:55.559 --> 01:07:58.679
<v Speaker 29>Like like Saint Thomas Aquinas comes along, he talks about

1051
01:07:58.679 --> 01:08:01.639
<v Speaker 29>divine simplicity, makes a giant book, and then they just like.

1052
01:08:01.639 --> 01:08:06.320
<v Speaker 15>Jump shit or what No, I mean the trinitarian errors,

1053
01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:10.800
<v Speaker 15>original sin, like, all of the errors are not all

1054
01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:14.039
<v Speaker 15>at once. They take time to develop. So for example,

1055
01:08:14.119 --> 01:08:18.359
<v Speaker 15>the papacy doctrine as Vatican One frames it, even they

1056
01:08:18.439 --> 01:08:22.039
<v Speaker 15>themselves typically argue that it evolves. So when they're presented

1057
01:08:22.079 --> 01:08:24.960
<v Speaker 15>with these challenges, a lot of times they will appeal

1058
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:27.920
<v Speaker 15>to doctrinal development, which just for them means that it's

1059
01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:28.880
<v Speaker 15>changing over time.

1060
01:08:31.079 --> 01:08:34.239
<v Speaker 29>It just feels like an like unfalsifiable position.

1061
01:08:34.640 --> 01:08:36.720
<v Speaker 15>No, that's exactly what the papacy is.

1062
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:36.840
<v Speaker 6>It.

1063
01:08:37.119 --> 01:08:39.840
<v Speaker 15>It's in I mean like ninety percent of them argue

1064
01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:45.000
<v Speaker 15>in an unfalsifiable way. Anytime there's a problem, it's suddenly

1065
01:08:45.039 --> 01:08:48.880
<v Speaker 15>not binding in not ex cathedra. Uh and so yeah,

1066
01:08:48.920 --> 01:08:50.880
<v Speaker 15>anyway you go about it like they pick and choose

1067
01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:53.319
<v Speaker 15>like Protestants, which papal teachings they follow. So you know

1068
01:08:53.399 --> 01:08:56.720
<v Speaker 15>it's it's absolutely by the way, an unfalsifiable system is

1069
01:08:56.720 --> 01:08:58.079
<v Speaker 15>a sign that it's extremely weak.

1070
01:08:59.680 --> 01:09:01.760
<v Speaker 29>Yeah, you were talking about this, I think in that

1071
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:05.680
<v Speaker 29>same lime stream live stream about the premacy document, and

1072
01:09:05.720 --> 01:09:07.800
<v Speaker 29>I just I was, I was laughing really hard at

1073
01:09:07.800 --> 01:09:09.800
<v Speaker 29>the whole, like wait for Vatican four, and wait for

1074
01:09:09.880 --> 01:09:12.039
<v Speaker 29>Vatican five, and wait for Vatican six, because when I

1075
01:09:12.119 --> 01:09:14.720
<v Speaker 29>was reading the documents, it seems like they just keep

1076
01:09:14.720 --> 01:09:16.920
<v Speaker 29>making the same statement. Will like, oh, when we looked

1077
01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:19.199
<v Speaker 29>it over again, even though we said we can't go

1078
01:09:19.319 --> 01:09:21.920
<v Speaker 29>back on previous understanding, we're gonna like casually do it.

1079
01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:23.600
<v Speaker 6>But gaslight in you thinking it's not the.

1080
01:09:23.560 --> 01:09:26.600
<v Speaker 15>Case, right, Yeah, absolutely, It's just so weird.

1081
01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:28.680
<v Speaker 6>I don't know, Well, Donna take much too much for

1082
01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:29.640
<v Speaker 6>your time. I appreciate it.

1083
01:09:29.840 --> 01:09:30.319
<v Speaker 30>I thought I was.

1084
01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:32.000
<v Speaker 29>I just felt like I was being gas lit by

1085
01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:33.520
<v Speaker 29>the like the inconsistencies.

1086
01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:35.800
<v Speaker 6>So I don't know. I just appreciate your stuff.

1087
01:09:35.840 --> 01:09:38.520
<v Speaker 15>Sure, yeah, you were being gas So that's uh, that's

1088
01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:41.039
<v Speaker 15>how they do their apologetics. Here's a trad Catholic. He's

1089
01:09:41.039 --> 01:09:54.960
<v Speaker 15>gonna watch him do that everything. I tried to turn

1090
01:09:54.960 --> 01:10:02.399
<v Speaker 15>the audio up, trad Cat, Are you there, I'm mute,

1091
01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:11.000
<v Speaker 15>trad Cat, I'm mute, and he ran away. So there

1092
01:10:11.039 --> 01:10:16.479
<v Speaker 15>you go. So there's your trad cats for you. Try again.

1093
01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:18.119
<v Speaker 15>I'm mute.

1094
01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:21.079
<v Speaker 6>Okay, now, yes, I couldn't hear you before.

1095
01:10:23.159 --> 01:10:23.720
<v Speaker 31>Can you hear me?

1096
01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:24.039
<v Speaker 15>Yep?

1097
01:10:25.720 --> 01:10:26.680
<v Speaker 6>I just had a question.

1098
01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:33.439
<v Speaker 32>What's your position on like the Rosary?

1099
01:10:33.720 --> 01:10:35.680
<v Speaker 15>I don't know. I mean Orthodox don't need it and

1100
01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:38.920
<v Speaker 15>probably shouldn't do it because usually the rosary is tied

1101
01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:42.840
<v Speaker 15>to Roman cally delusions like imaginative prayer and all this

1102
01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:43.479
<v Speaker 15>kind of stuff.

1103
01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:46.319
<v Speaker 6>What do you mean imaginative?

1104
01:10:47.359 --> 01:10:49.399
<v Speaker 15>I mean that's your own tradition. You're not aware of it.

1105
01:10:49.680 --> 01:10:53.760
<v Speaker 32>Like what you mean, like when you're like meditating on mysteries.

1106
01:10:55.119 --> 01:10:57.960
<v Speaker 15>Well, it's more than that, because it's part of the

1107
01:10:58.039 --> 01:11:02.359
<v Speaker 15>Jesuit tradition. It's part of what Alfonso's wory tells you

1108
01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:05.039
<v Speaker 15>to do, which is to imagine all these scenarios, imagine

1109
01:11:05.079 --> 01:11:07.960
<v Speaker 15>yourself in hell imagine all these things, and so that's

1110
01:11:08.119 --> 01:11:10.439
<v Speaker 15>we don't do that. We reject that delusion.

1111
01:11:12.439 --> 01:11:14.520
<v Speaker 6>But what what's like the harm in doing that?

1112
01:11:15.399 --> 01:11:18.880
<v Speaker 15>Because humans are susceptible to those kinds of delusions. For example,

1113
01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:21.199
<v Speaker 15>I've had heard countless Roman calviocs say, oh, I know,

1114
01:11:21.319 --> 01:11:23.800
<v Speaker 15>roma's also true because I was praying the Rosary and

1115
01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:26.239
<v Speaker 15>Mary appeared in my dreams and comforted me. I mean

1116
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:28.079
<v Speaker 15>that's not a good reason to believe the religion.

1117
01:11:30.199 --> 01:11:30.720
<v Speaker 6>Well, yeah, I.

1118
01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:34.000
<v Speaker 32>Agree, But like I'm saying, like as a practice of faith,

1119
01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:38.399
<v Speaker 32>like or helping you like overcome sin and stuff like that, Like, wouldn't.

1120
01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:38.960
<v Speaker 6>That be good?

1121
01:11:39.319 --> 01:11:42.760
<v Speaker 15>No, imaginative prayer is not part of our tradition, So

1122
01:11:42.800 --> 01:11:45.520
<v Speaker 15>it doesn't achieve the purification of the passion or the

1123
01:11:45.560 --> 01:11:48.279
<v Speaker 15>news or anything like that. In fact, it encourages delusion

1124
01:11:48.319 --> 01:11:48.840
<v Speaker 15>and pre list.

1125
01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:54.039
<v Speaker 32>So then how would you like word towards singing lesson

1126
01:11:54.119 --> 01:11:54.760
<v Speaker 32>stuff like that?

1127
01:11:54.880 --> 01:11:55.680
<v Speaker 6>What would you do then?

1128
01:11:55.960 --> 01:11:58.479
<v Speaker 15>Through the entire ethos of the Orthodox Church?

1129
01:12:00.319 --> 01:12:01.800
<v Speaker 6>Like, can you give me some examples?

1130
01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:06.680
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, Well, we have asceticism, we have attendants at the liturgy, confession, Eucharist,

1131
01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:07.880
<v Speaker 15>all those things.

1132
01:12:09.920 --> 01:12:15.159
<v Speaker 32>So the Eos believe in translo right, in what transistentiation.

1133
01:12:16.439 --> 01:12:18.239
<v Speaker 15>We believe in the real presence and that it's really

1134
01:12:18.279 --> 01:12:20.520
<v Speaker 15>a participation in the uncreated grace. But we don't have

1135
01:12:20.560 --> 01:12:25.239
<v Speaker 15>the Roman Catholic position that you're eating a created divine substance.

1136
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:28.840
<v Speaker 6>A creative divine substance.

1137
01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:33.680
<v Speaker 32>Yeah, I don't think that's what the Catholics believe.

1138
01:12:33.920 --> 01:12:37.119
<v Speaker 15>Well, you don't need the essence of God, right, No, okay,

1139
01:12:37.159 --> 01:12:39.680
<v Speaker 15>so what do you eat the body?

1140
01:12:39.800 --> 01:12:42.159
<v Speaker 32>Well, actually it says that we eat the body's soul

1141
01:12:42.199 --> 01:12:42.760
<v Speaker 32>and divinity.

1142
01:12:43.079 --> 01:12:46.640
<v Speaker 15>And what's the divinity? You don't believe in the essence

1143
01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:49.560
<v Speaker 15>inary sanctions? So what's the divinity?

1144
01:12:49.960 --> 01:12:52.439
<v Speaker 6>Uh to say, I'm not sure then, yeah.

1145
01:12:52.439 --> 01:12:55.800
<v Speaker 15>Because it's a created substantial or created accident.

1146
01:12:57.159 --> 01:12:59.600
<v Speaker 32>It's like it's like created grace or something.

1147
01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:01.880
<v Speaker 15>Correct, So is there created God?

1148
01:13:02.720 --> 01:13:02.760
<v Speaker 6>No?

1149
01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:06.039
<v Speaker 15>Well you just said you eat divinity. Now you're saying

1150
01:13:06.039 --> 01:13:08.279
<v Speaker 15>it's a created God, but that didn't exist, which one

1151
01:13:08.359 --> 01:13:08.640
<v Speaker 15>is it?

1152
01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:10.039
<v Speaker 8>Uh?

1153
01:13:10.920 --> 01:13:11.119
<v Speaker 6>Wait?

1154
01:13:11.199 --> 01:13:15.079
<v Speaker 32>But how does like having like created grace or something,

1155
01:13:15.159 --> 01:13:17.520
<v Speaker 32>and you're that that's like a created God.

1156
01:13:17.680 --> 01:13:20.039
<v Speaker 15>You literally just said that in the Eucharist you partake

1157
01:13:20.079 --> 01:13:22.359
<v Speaker 15>a body, blood, soul, and divinity. I asked you what

1158
01:13:22.399 --> 01:13:25.000
<v Speaker 15>the divinity is? You said that it's not the essence

1159
01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:25.359
<v Speaker 15>of God.

1160
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:28.239
<v Speaker 6>Huh, it would be a created grace.

1161
01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:30.399
<v Speaker 15>Is a created grace a creature?

1162
01:13:31.840 --> 01:13:32.000
<v Speaker 5>Uh?

1163
01:13:32.159 --> 01:13:35.640
<v Speaker 15>No, so there's uncreated creatures.

1164
01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:37.359
<v Speaker 6>What do you mean a creature?

1165
01:13:37.479 --> 01:13:40.439
<v Speaker 15>Like you just called it created. You don't know what

1166
01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:41.600
<v Speaker 15>created means.

1167
01:13:42.039 --> 01:13:43.760
<v Speaker 32>Yeah, but like you're saying it like it's like a

1168
01:13:43.800 --> 01:13:44.680
<v Speaker 32>person or something.

1169
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:46.960
<v Speaker 15>Okay, no idea what you're talking about. You don't even

1170
01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:52.239
<v Speaker 15>know your own traditions, terminology discussion. Calling it a creature

1171
01:13:52.319 --> 01:13:58.159
<v Speaker 15>is calling it a person. Wow, there's a romanchaolics for you,

1172
01:13:58.319 --> 01:14:05.600
<v Speaker 15>trad cats baby meta.

1173
01:14:05.079 --> 01:14:09.600
<v Speaker 33>Hello, yep, Hey Jay, So I was watching your debate

1174
01:14:09.680 --> 01:14:12.840
<v Speaker 33>with Matt dyl a monkey as you like to call him,

1175
01:14:13.159 --> 01:14:15.159
<v Speaker 33>and I was just curious on one of the debate

1176
01:14:15.199 --> 01:14:20.039
<v Speaker 33>points that you guys are discussing. So essentially, I guess

1177
01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:22.439
<v Speaker 33>whenever it went to like the conclusive part of the debate,

1178
01:14:22.479 --> 01:14:24.560
<v Speaker 33>wherever he was saying he doesn't have to have a

1179
01:14:24.760 --> 01:14:32.159
<v Speaker 33>justification for these fundamental, fundamental metaphysical claims. So how is

1180
01:14:32.199 --> 01:14:35.239
<v Speaker 33>that different from like positing that God exists?

1181
01:14:37.279 --> 01:14:40.039
<v Speaker 15>Because the argument was giving a justification for why I

1182
01:14:40.079 --> 01:14:43.039
<v Speaker 15>can say that God exists. I wasn't just saying God exists,

1183
01:14:43.159 --> 01:14:48.079
<v Speaker 15>therefore it is. My argument was that if Matt doesn't

1184
01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:50.199
<v Speaker 15>have to give a justification, then I don't.

1185
01:14:51.640 --> 01:14:54.039
<v Speaker 33>So then that puts you guys on the same plane essentially.

1186
01:14:54.159 --> 01:14:56.600
<v Speaker 15>Well, it's pointing out that he wouldn't accept that line

1187
01:14:56.600 --> 01:14:58.920
<v Speaker 15>of argumentation, So why should I accept that from him

1188
01:14:58.960 --> 01:14:59.479
<v Speaker 15>in a debate?

1189
01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:03.279
<v Speaker 6>Oh? Interesting, Okay, that's pretty much what I want.

1190
01:15:03.399 --> 01:15:05.600
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, no, it's it's a good question. I haven't actually

1191
01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:07.319
<v Speaker 15>listened to that debate a long time, so maybe I

1192
01:15:07.319 --> 01:15:12.520
<v Speaker 15>should go back and review, like an old debate like that. George,

1193
01:15:18.279 --> 01:15:20.760
<v Speaker 15>Matt doesn't even know that emergent properties, as Father Deacon

1194
01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:24.279
<v Speaker 15>and Ias has pointed out, do not aid materialism in

1195
01:15:24.279 --> 01:15:28.439
<v Speaker 15>any way. Emergent properties arose as a theory against materialism,

1196
01:15:28.479 --> 01:15:33.560
<v Speaker 15>but Matt doesn't even know that. George, mister Dyer.

1197
01:15:33.600 --> 01:15:36.199
<v Speaker 6>Thank you for having me up. I have a friend

1198
01:15:36.239 --> 01:15:39.920
<v Speaker 6>who's an Anglican priest. He's agreed to debate you, but

1199
01:15:40.119 --> 01:15:42.920
<v Speaker 6>he prefers to do it in a formal space. He

1200
01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:44.840
<v Speaker 6>sort of doesn't want to be moderated. Would you fire

1201
01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:46.720
<v Speaker 6>me a DM and I'll just introduce you and you too.

1202
01:15:47.319 --> 01:15:47.880
<v Speaker 15>Who is it?

1203
01:15:48.880 --> 01:15:51.600
<v Speaker 6>His name is Father James and he's on here.

1204
01:15:51.680 --> 01:15:53.920
<v Speaker 17>He doesn't have James.

1205
01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:58.000
<v Speaker 6>His last name is not on his profile. I'm sure

1206
01:15:58.039 --> 01:15:59.720
<v Speaker 6>he would be happy to give you all his information.

1207
01:16:00.920 --> 01:16:02.560
<v Speaker 15>Well, there's a certain angl can I know that I'm

1208
01:16:02.600 --> 01:16:04.159
<v Speaker 15>not interested in debating. So I'm trying to figure out

1209
01:16:04.159 --> 01:16:06.520
<v Speaker 15>that was him, But I don't think it is. Does he?

1210
01:16:06.880 --> 01:16:09.680
<v Speaker 15>How big is his following? And what what would I

1211
01:16:09.720 --> 01:16:10.199
<v Speaker 15>get out of this?

1212
01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:13.800
<v Speaker 6>All right, so he's going to fall small, small following.

1213
01:16:13.840 --> 01:16:19.960
<v Speaker 15>Not interested? Thank you appreciate it. S no, anybody not

1214
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.359
<v Speaker 15>trying to be rude, but I don't do formal debates

1215
01:16:22.399 --> 01:16:24.840
<v Speaker 15>with anybody who has small following. So that's what the

1216
01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:27.560
<v Speaker 15>Twitter spaces are for. If you want to come to debate,

1217
01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:36.319
<v Speaker 15>anybody can do that. Uh, let's see, where's that guy

1218
01:16:36.319 --> 01:16:41.960
<v Speaker 15>that was begging to be let back in here? Data boy?

1219
01:16:42.399 --> 01:16:43.960
<v Speaker 15>So do we have any Protestants? I know we've got

1220
01:16:43.960 --> 01:16:46.079
<v Speaker 15>a lot of people asking Orthodox questions, which is fine,

1221
01:16:47.279 --> 01:16:53.520
<v Speaker 15>but I'm looking for Protestants who disagree. O cay see one?

1222
01:16:53.600 --> 01:16:55.880
<v Speaker 15>Anybody else? Raise your hand if you're a Protestant who

1223
01:16:57.800 --> 01:16:59.920
<v Speaker 15>wants to come to the front line. We got sick

1224
01:17:00.039 --> 01:17:07.359
<v Speaker 15>Steen people in London. What's up? Okay? I see one

1225
01:17:07.560 --> 01:17:10.560
<v Speaker 15>and then we'll go to this ex Muslim guy, and

1226
01:17:10.560 --> 01:17:16.199
<v Speaker 15>then we'll go to Jordan. Okay, ex Muslim. What's up?

1227
01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:26.359
<v Speaker 15>By the way, mods, if you would debate that Kyle guy,

1228
01:17:26.359 --> 01:17:28.479
<v Speaker 15>if if he won't come to by, just boot him.

1229
01:17:28.600 --> 01:17:32.239
<v Speaker 15>He's wasting everybody's time. I don't know if he left

1230
01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:36.840
<v Speaker 15>or what. But it's just like, there's nothing weaker than

1231
01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:39.000
<v Speaker 15>like popping in here to talk about how you're a

1232
01:17:39.039 --> 01:17:42.399
<v Speaker 15>bad person. And by the way, I can't debate out here.

1233
01:17:42.399 --> 01:17:47.600
<v Speaker 15>By what's up? I'm yeah, man, why are you raising

1234
01:17:47.600 --> 01:17:48.920
<v Speaker 15>your hand? You're you're on the thing?

1235
01:17:50.239 --> 01:17:53.680
<v Speaker 6>Yes, shotum, and greetings to all of you. My name

1236
01:17:53.720 --> 01:17:56.239
<v Speaker 6>is Ramin. I'm a former Muslim and a Christian.

1237
01:17:56.319 --> 01:17:59.800
<v Speaker 34>Now he can put me in the category of a Protestant,

1238
01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:03.439
<v Speaker 34>but I try not to basically put myself in a

1239
01:18:03.479 --> 01:18:07.159
<v Speaker 34>category because the Bible doesn't say if you're a Protestant

1240
01:18:07.239 --> 01:18:09.560
<v Speaker 34>or Catholic or art buct will be saved. It says

1241
01:18:09.600 --> 01:18:10.680
<v Speaker 34>you must be born again.

1242
01:18:11.600 --> 01:18:13.720
<v Speaker 15>Now, But what does that mean because the rest of

1243
01:18:13.760 --> 01:18:16.800
<v Speaker 15>the New Testament texts talk about that being baptism.

1244
01:18:17.239 --> 01:18:19.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, well born again is we have three kinds of

1245
01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:20.680
<v Speaker 6>death in the Bible.

1246
01:18:20.720 --> 01:18:23.760
<v Speaker 34>When is it physical death, spiritual death, and eternal death?

1247
01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:25.840
<v Speaker 6>Which is also called second death.

1248
01:18:26.560 --> 01:18:29.119
<v Speaker 15>So that what does it have to do with baptism.

1249
01:18:29.159 --> 01:18:33.520
<v Speaker 6>What I just said, baptism is an outer outer.

1250
01:18:33.640 --> 01:18:36.560
<v Speaker 15>You're just repeating Protestant Baptist doctrines. And I'm telling you

1251
01:18:36.560 --> 01:18:38.720
<v Speaker 15>in Titus three five, it's called the washing of the

1252
01:18:38.760 --> 01:18:39.640
<v Speaker 15>labor regeneration.

1253
01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:42.880
<v Speaker 6>Yes, but that's in this speit's what happened.

1254
01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:44.840
<v Speaker 15>How do you know that? You're just asserting that when

1255
01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:47.079
<v Speaker 15>Paul doesn't make that distinction. How do you know that

1256
01:18:47.119 --> 01:18:51.039
<v Speaker 15>every time Paul talks about baptism is quote spiritual, Well.

1257
01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:53.159
<v Speaker 34>The baptism was an outer confession.

1258
01:18:53.239 --> 01:18:55.359
<v Speaker 15>You're just restating the question I'm asking you, how do

1259
01:18:55.399 --> 01:18:57.279
<v Speaker 15>you know that that's what Paul means and all those

1260
01:18:57.319 --> 01:18:58.199
<v Speaker 15>passages about.

1261
01:18:58.039 --> 01:19:00.520
<v Speaker 6>Baptism, because it's all over the Bible.

1262
01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:03.520
<v Speaker 15>So the answer is it's all over when that's the

1263
01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:06.000
<v Speaker 15>thing I'm asking you. So in other words, so why

1264
01:19:06.159 --> 01:19:07.840
<v Speaker 15>what are you for the third time going to just

1265
01:19:07.840 --> 01:19:09.159
<v Speaker 15>tell me your interpretation again?

1266
01:19:10.319 --> 01:19:12.319
<v Speaker 6>No, it's not my interpretation. Is what the Bible says.

1267
01:19:13.319 --> 01:19:15.399
<v Speaker 15>That's what you're saying, That's what the Bible says, And

1268
01:19:15.439 --> 01:19:17.600
<v Speaker 15>I'm saying no. In John three, I think Jesus is

1269
01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:20.600
<v Speaker 15>talking about water baptism, and that's why Acts too. Peter says,

1270
01:19:20.640 --> 01:19:23.239
<v Speaker 15>repent and be baptized for the remission of sins? Is

1271
01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:25.479
<v Speaker 15>it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine?

1272
01:19:26.159 --> 01:19:27.800
<v Speaker 6>What the bone again happens?

1273
01:19:28.359 --> 01:19:32.279
<v Speaker 15>Is it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine. Yes,

1274
01:19:32.880 --> 01:19:34.399
<v Speaker 15>oh it is. But that's where he says, is the

1275
01:19:34.439 --> 01:19:35.359
<v Speaker 15>remission of sins?

1276
01:19:36.319 --> 01:19:38.880
<v Speaker 34>No, the remission of sins, it doesn't happen with Washington

1277
01:19:38.960 --> 01:19:39.319
<v Speaker 34>the water.

1278
01:19:39.439 --> 01:19:41.720
<v Speaker 15>It literally says that in Act two thirty eight thirty nine.

1279
01:19:42.399 --> 01:19:44.680
<v Speaker 34>No, nobody gets saved by being baptizing the water.

1280
01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:47.479
<v Speaker 15>That's your Yeah, please keep us starting the Protestant doctrine,

1281
01:19:47.479 --> 01:19:49.600
<v Speaker 15>which is what I'm challenging, which you said it is

1282
01:19:49.680 --> 01:19:52.039
<v Speaker 15>water baptism in actually thirty eight and thirty nine. And

1283
01:19:52.079 --> 01:19:54.079
<v Speaker 15>he says that that is the remission of sentence.

1284
01:19:54.720 --> 01:19:57.399
<v Speaker 6>But listen, when I became a believer, I.

1285
01:19:57.479 --> 01:20:00.239
<v Speaker 15>This is your subjective interpretation. I don't. It doesn't matter

1286
01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:02.279
<v Speaker 15>what you what your personal experience was.

1287
01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:05.760
<v Speaker 34>No, I'm telling you right now there are tens of

1288
01:20:05.800 --> 01:20:09.000
<v Speaker 34>thousands of Iranians who have become believers in Jesus and

1289
01:20:09.039 --> 01:20:11.840
<v Speaker 34>they are not able to get baptized because in Iran,

1290
01:20:11.920 --> 01:20:15.000
<v Speaker 34>there's not possibility to get arrested or but they love

1291
01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:17.319
<v Speaker 34>the Lord and they're not even baptized, but they're born again,

1292
01:20:17.359 --> 01:20:17.840
<v Speaker 34>they're full of.

1293
01:20:17.840 --> 01:20:18.479
<v Speaker 6>The Holy space.

1294
01:20:18.720 --> 01:20:21.239
<v Speaker 15>Let's just bag in the question. I mean, they may

1295
01:20:21.279 --> 01:20:23.680
<v Speaker 15>be in God's mind and that's fine, but the normative

1296
01:20:23.680 --> 01:20:26.079
<v Speaker 15>means by which we do this is said to be

1297
01:20:26.239 --> 01:20:29.439
<v Speaker 15>multiple times throughout the New Testament, actual baptism. So you're

1298
01:20:29.479 --> 01:20:31.800
<v Speaker 15>just assuming Protestantism, which is the very thing that I'm

1299
01:20:31.880 --> 01:20:34.279
<v Speaker 15>questioning about. So how do you prove Protestantism to me?

1300
01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:39.439
<v Speaker 34>Well, as I said, I'm not a Protestant, was a basically, you.

1301
01:20:39.359 --> 01:20:42.199
<v Speaker 15>Are a Protestant. Why are you acting like you're not? Okay, evangelical?

1302
01:20:42.279 --> 01:20:42.760
<v Speaker 15>Is that better?

1303
01:20:43.600 --> 01:20:43.920
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

1304
01:20:43.960 --> 01:20:48.720
<v Speaker 34>So basically what happened with the Protestantism Martin Luther, it

1305
01:20:48.800 --> 01:20:53.239
<v Speaker 34>was a protest against Catholic system of you know, justification

1306
01:20:53.359 --> 01:20:54.279
<v Speaker 34>by works.

1307
01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:58.880
<v Speaker 6>And unaware on faith plus works. And what all Protestant

1308
01:20:59.079 --> 01:20:59.560
<v Speaker 6>was was no.

1309
01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:02.920
<v Speaker 15>Again, I don't need to I know the history of

1310
01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:04.600
<v Speaker 15>the Pross and Reformation. I'm not trying to be rude

1311
01:21:04.600 --> 01:21:07.840
<v Speaker 15>to you, but I'm asking you about evangelicalism, which is

1312
01:21:07.840 --> 01:21:10.359
<v Speaker 15>what you're part of, and I'm asking you, why should

1313
01:21:10.439 --> 01:21:13.520
<v Speaker 15>we accept evangelicalism.

1314
01:21:13.560 --> 01:21:16.039
<v Speaker 34>I guess it's not evangelicalism, it's being.

1315
01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:18.520
<v Speaker 15>Or being dishonest because you just admitted that you weren't

1316
01:21:18.520 --> 01:21:20.039
<v Speaker 15>evangelical like two minutes ago.

1317
01:21:20.760 --> 01:21:22.640
<v Speaker 34>Yeah, evangelical? What is evangelical?

1318
01:21:22.680 --> 01:21:23.199
<v Speaker 6>The Christians?

1319
01:21:23.520 --> 01:21:25.359
<v Speaker 15>I'm not going to argue with you over terms. Where

1320
01:21:25.359 --> 01:21:27.560
<v Speaker 15>do you get your Bible from?

1321
01:21:27.880 --> 01:21:29.520
<v Speaker 6>What do you mean? What am I going about?

1322
01:21:29.600 --> 01:21:31.159
<v Speaker 15>Where do you get the Bible from? Did it just

1323
01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:33.079
<v Speaker 15>fall out of the air into Iran?

1324
01:21:35.359 --> 01:21:38.840
<v Speaker 6>No? I actually run is illegal to a Bible. So

1325
01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:41.279
<v Speaker 6>I don't live in your own now. I live in Israel.

1326
01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:44.880
<v Speaker 34>But when I when I became a believer, I served

1327
01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:46.000
<v Speaker 34>for a Bible for three months.

1328
01:21:46.039 --> 01:21:46.800
<v Speaker 6>I find one.

1329
01:21:46.880 --> 01:22:06.760
<v Speaker 15>We're moving on, not falling for that. Jordan Jordan, Michael Jordan,

1330
01:22:14.159 --> 01:22:22.319
<v Speaker 15>I'm mute. We can't hear you, dude. I don't know

1331
01:22:22.319 --> 01:22:24.039
<v Speaker 15>if you don't know, didn't turn your mic on or what?

1332
01:22:24.079 --> 01:22:25.560
<v Speaker 15>But you want to come back, turn your mic on

1333
01:22:25.560 --> 01:22:33.239
<v Speaker 15>and come back, We'll go to you. All right. Let's see,

1334
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:37.239
<v Speaker 15>I thought I was supposed to unmute this, unblock this

1335
01:22:37.279 --> 01:22:44.520
<v Speaker 15>guy who he hasn't showed up. So see this is

1336
01:22:44.560 --> 01:22:47.079
<v Speaker 15>what I'm saying, Like when I block people. It's usually

1337
01:22:47.159 --> 01:22:48.920
<v Speaker 15>for a good reason, and then when they want to

1338
01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:51.920
<v Speaker 15>be unblocked, they don't come in debate because that's what

1339
01:22:51.960 --> 01:22:52.760
<v Speaker 15>they said they wanted.

1340
01:22:54.880 --> 01:22:58.159
<v Speaker 17>Here we go go ahead.

1341
01:23:07.319 --> 01:23:10.840
<v Speaker 9>Hello, okay, okay, I'll teach you later.

1342
01:23:10.960 --> 01:23:13.199
<v Speaker 6>Oh sorry, I'll be with you in one minute.

1343
01:23:13.199 --> 01:23:17.680
<v Speaker 15>Okay, bring your mom on to debate. She'll probably did

1344
01:23:17.680 --> 01:23:24.880
<v Speaker 15>about in't you. We got a trad cat whose mom's

1345
01:23:24.920 --> 01:23:27.399
<v Speaker 15>fustin at him because he won't get off the computer

1346
01:23:27.439 --> 01:23:29.239
<v Speaker 15>in the basement. He's used up his computer time in

1347
01:23:29.279 --> 01:23:32.079
<v Speaker 15>the basement, So bring your mom on to debate.

1348
01:23:32.800 --> 01:23:33.600
<v Speaker 6>Sorry about that.

1349
01:23:33.920 --> 01:23:35.399
<v Speaker 15>Your mom a debate better than you want you to

1350
01:23:35.399 --> 01:23:35.800
<v Speaker 15>bring her on.

1351
01:23:37.039 --> 01:23:42.159
<v Speaker 9>Oh hey, ja, I tried connecting a few weeks ago,

1352
01:23:42.199 --> 01:23:43.920
<v Speaker 9>but I was having computer issues.

1353
01:23:44.039 --> 01:23:44.720
<v Speaker 28>Sorry about that.

1354
01:23:45.119 --> 01:23:47.039
<v Speaker 15>Did your mom let you stay on longer this time?

1355
01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:50.520
<v Speaker 9>That wasn't my mom, that was someone else?

1356
01:23:52.920 --> 01:23:57.880
<v Speaker 6>Okay, go ahead. So I am Catholic.

1357
01:23:57.880 --> 01:24:00.600
<v Speaker 9>I think I said that on one of my previous

1358
01:24:00.760 --> 01:24:07.000
<v Speaker 9>previous appearances. So I definitely do believe in, like, you know,

1359
01:24:07.520 --> 01:24:11.680
<v Speaker 9>continuity with the ancient Church and Apostolic succession and all that.

1360
01:24:13.399 --> 01:24:14.159
<v Speaker 6>I should say.

1361
01:24:14.039 --> 01:24:17.800
<v Speaker 9>That I was baptized Catholic. I went to a Presbyterian

1362
01:24:17.880 --> 01:24:20.000
<v Speaker 9>church for a little bit when I was like nine,

1363
01:24:20.560 --> 01:24:24.159
<v Speaker 9>and I got confirmed Catholic as a teenager. So that's

1364
01:24:24.239 --> 01:24:25.279
<v Speaker 9>my background.

1365
01:24:25.279 --> 01:24:28.720
<v Speaker 6>I guess you could say, Okay, so.

1366
01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:33.560
<v Speaker 9>I'm not Protestant as you know, and I do believe

1367
01:24:33.600 --> 01:24:38.680
<v Speaker 9>in Apostolic succession, and I don't believe in like you know,

1368
01:24:38.880 --> 01:24:43.039
<v Speaker 9>I don't believe you know when like set of Acantism or.

1369
01:24:43.039 --> 01:24:44.399
<v Speaker 17>Any anything like that.

1370
01:24:44.600 --> 01:24:48.760
<v Speaker 9>I think those intellectual positions are untenable. So I take

1371
01:24:48.760 --> 01:24:51.960
<v Speaker 9>it you as an Orthodox Christian, you have your own

1372
01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:55.039
<v Speaker 9>ways to debunk, say, like the old calendarists and like

1373
01:24:55.079 --> 01:24:57.000
<v Speaker 9>the quote unquote genuine orthodox.

1374
01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:01.840
<v Speaker 15>I don't know about my own way, but I have, uh.

1375
01:25:02.079 --> 01:25:04.159
<v Speaker 15>I mean, David Rhan made a whole video that's pretty

1376
01:25:04.159 --> 01:25:08.119
<v Speaker 15>good on this about the legalistic it's actually a Western

1377
01:25:08.159 --> 01:25:10.800
<v Speaker 15>mindset that every all the grace is shut off or

1378
01:25:10.800 --> 01:25:17.359
<v Speaker 15>something like that. I mean, what about it? What is it?

1379
01:25:17.399 --> 01:25:19.159
<v Speaker 15>I mean, what is that going to prove against? Like

1380
01:25:19.199 --> 01:25:21.600
<v Speaker 15>I mean, so that'd be like me saying, well, you

1381
01:25:21.600 --> 01:25:24.840
<v Speaker 15>have a set of a contest so Roman Catholicism is false,

1382
01:25:25.159 --> 01:25:26.840
<v Speaker 15>Like how does that prove or disprove anything?

1383
01:25:28.159 --> 01:25:30.239
<v Speaker 9>I would I was just asking what your thoughts on

1384
01:25:30.319 --> 01:25:31.640
<v Speaker 9>like the old calendar.

1385
01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:35.560
<v Speaker 15>Well, most many old calendars are. Also. My church is

1386
01:25:35.560 --> 01:25:36.920
<v Speaker 15>on the old calendar.

1387
01:25:36.760 --> 01:25:38.800
<v Speaker 6>So well, I know that Rokor.

1388
01:25:39.399 --> 01:25:40.119
<v Speaker 15>I know that.

1389
01:25:42.279 --> 01:25:46.960
<v Speaker 9>The Russian Orthodox Church and the Serbian Orthodox Church and

1390
01:25:47.079 --> 01:25:50.439
<v Speaker 9>the Georgian Orthodox Church all used the old calendar liturgically,

1391
01:25:53.000 --> 01:25:56.600
<v Speaker 9>mm hmm, but I know some of the other countries

1392
01:25:56.600 --> 01:26:00.159
<v Speaker 9>that they used the reformed Julian calendar. There was a

1393
01:26:00.199 --> 01:26:01.880
<v Speaker 9>schism in like the twenties or something.

1394
01:26:05.039 --> 01:26:08.199
<v Speaker 15>I mean, I would argue that if the church is

1395
01:26:08.239 --> 01:26:13.680
<v Speaker 15>not canonical, then that's really not a church. And I

1396
01:26:13.680 --> 01:26:16.920
<v Speaker 15>don't know of any time in history where we were

1397
01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:20.960
<v Speaker 15>supposed to go to a non canonical church. So the

1398
01:26:21.039 --> 01:26:25.399
<v Speaker 15>creation of a parallel ecclesiology to me doesn't make sense.

1399
01:26:28.039 --> 01:26:30.800
<v Speaker 9>Okay, that definitely does make sense. I do have some

1400
01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:35.880
<v Speaker 9>questions about Augustine and how his philosophy shaped the Catholic Church.

1401
01:26:36.159 --> 01:26:40.800
<v Speaker 9>You would talk about this a little earlier, so I

1402
01:26:41.720 --> 01:26:44.920
<v Speaker 9>do know about Augustine's doctrine of original sin. How the

1403
01:26:45.039 --> 01:26:47.920
<v Speaker 9>Orthodox don't accept that. They call it ancestral sin. If

1404
01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:51.000
<v Speaker 9>I'm not mistaken now, I know that I'm pretty sure

1405
01:26:51.079 --> 01:26:57.319
<v Speaker 9>the Council of Trent said that humans, all humans, are

1406
01:26:57.359 --> 01:26:59.239
<v Speaker 9>guilty of Adam's sin.

1407
01:26:59.439 --> 01:27:00.119
<v Speaker 28>But if I'm not.

1408
01:27:00.079 --> 01:27:05.359
<v Speaker 9>Mistaken, the current Catholic catechism is more takes a position

1409
01:27:05.399 --> 01:27:08.520
<v Speaker 9>that's more similar to the Orthodox position, and they say

1410
01:27:08.520 --> 01:27:13.079
<v Speaker 9>that humans are no longer that is correct, guilty of

1411
01:27:13.119 --> 01:27:13.640
<v Speaker 9>adam sin.

1412
01:27:14.119 --> 01:27:17.960
<v Speaker 15>Right, Yeah, the modern Roman Catholic position is much closer

1413
01:27:18.000 --> 01:27:22.479
<v Speaker 15>to the Orthodox position distinguishes actual sin from original sin.

1414
01:27:22.560 --> 01:27:24.359
<v Speaker 15>I mean that actually goes back to the Middle Ages

1415
01:27:24.399 --> 01:27:28.760
<v Speaker 15>where even when infant limbo was mentioned in the early

1416
01:27:28.760 --> 01:27:33.319
<v Speaker 15>Middle Ages, that was attended with the idea that there's

1417
01:27:33.359 --> 01:27:37.399
<v Speaker 15>a distinction between the deprivation of grace and original sin

1418
01:27:37.600 --> 01:27:41.680
<v Speaker 15>versus personal guilt, which comes about through actual sin. So

1419
01:27:41.880 --> 01:27:45.079
<v Speaker 15>infants did not have personal guilt, but they did have

1420
01:27:45.119 --> 01:27:48.079
<v Speaker 15>the effects of this of the fall, which was the

1421
01:27:48.119 --> 01:27:51.680
<v Speaker 15>deprivation of grace and so forth, hence why we baptize infants.

1422
01:27:51.720 --> 01:27:54.880
<v Speaker 15>And the Orthodox we would agree with that, but we

1423
01:27:55.239 --> 01:28:00.439
<v Speaker 15>also would argue that there was still the strand and

1424
01:28:00.560 --> 01:28:07.680
<v Speaker 15>the paint of the notion that sin is in some

1425
01:28:07.720 --> 01:28:13.079
<v Speaker 15>way passed on in an actual guilt way through seminal transmission,

1426
01:28:13.079 --> 01:28:15.359
<v Speaker 15>which is something that we would disagree with. Sin is

1427
01:28:15.399 --> 01:28:19.119
<v Speaker 15>not transmitted, but the effects of the fall are transmitted.

1428
01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:23.319
<v Speaker 15>So that's why you get the recent Vatican statement on

1429
01:28:23.399 --> 01:28:26.840
<v Speaker 15>all this that it did evolve over time in the

1430
01:28:26.920 --> 01:28:29.720
<v Speaker 15>Romancalthoy position nowadays is not what it was in the

1431
01:28:29.720 --> 01:28:33.119
<v Speaker 15>West in the fifth sixth seventh century.

1432
01:28:33.159 --> 01:28:36.079
<v Speaker 9>Did this change with Vatican two or was it before that?

1433
01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:40.039
<v Speaker 15>Well, I would say Vatican two played a role in it,

1434
01:28:40.079 --> 01:28:44.079
<v Speaker 15>because Vatican two did attempt to bring in so called

1435
01:28:44.159 --> 01:28:48.079
<v Speaker 15>quote voices and inspiration from the East. There were a

1436
01:28:48.119 --> 01:28:52.560
<v Speaker 15>lot of periti at Vatican two, like Hans Wor's on Balthazar,

1437
01:28:52.600 --> 01:28:56.000
<v Speaker 15>who were very influenced by Eastern theology, so that could

1438
01:28:56.079 --> 01:29:00.279
<v Speaker 15>play a role. But the Vatican statement on Limbo was

1439
01:29:00.520 --> 01:29:03.279
<v Speaker 15>not that long ago, so it was a post Vatican.

1440
01:29:02.960 --> 01:29:07.720
<v Speaker 9>Two okay, And that's the one you were talking about

1441
01:29:07.720 --> 01:29:09.640
<v Speaker 9>earlier that said infants aren't damned?

1442
01:29:09.680 --> 01:29:13.119
<v Speaker 15>Correct, Well, this is why. Yeah, it's uh, let's see

1443
01:29:13.119 --> 01:29:23.239
<v Speaker 15>when did this come out? Pulling it up there, I

1444
01:29:23.319 --> 01:29:25.600
<v Speaker 15>highly recommend people interested in this topic should read it.

1445
01:29:26.199 --> 01:29:27.720
<v Speaker 15>Doesn't have a date on it, so I'm not sure

1446
01:29:27.720 --> 01:29:30.119
<v Speaker 15>when this comes. When this came out, but it's called

1447
01:29:30.119 --> 01:29:33.600
<v Speaker 15>the Hope for Salvation of Infants who die without being baptized.

1448
01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:38.960
<v Speaker 15>This was a CDF document. I think under rat Singer

1449
01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:41.399
<v Speaker 15>it might have been under John Paul. I don't recall.

1450
01:29:42.520 --> 01:29:45.199
<v Speaker 9>Speaking of baptism the last guy who came on here.

1451
01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:48.239
<v Speaker 9>I know in the Catholic Church there's this concept of

1452
01:29:48.279 --> 01:29:51.199
<v Speaker 9>baptism by blood and baptism by desire, which are kind

1453
01:29:51.199 --> 01:29:54.279
<v Speaker 9>of like the non normative means someone would.

1454
01:29:54.119 --> 01:29:56.760
<v Speaker 15>Be Yeah, I mean that's true. We believe in that

1455
01:29:56.760 --> 01:29:57.640
<v Speaker 15>in the Orthodox Church.

1456
01:29:57.680 --> 01:29:57.800
<v Speaker 6>Two.

1457
01:29:57.960 --> 01:30:00.520
<v Speaker 9>Okay, so that's in the Orthodox tradition as well.

1458
01:30:00.600 --> 01:30:04.000
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, and now if we had gotten further in that discussion, I'm.

1459
01:30:03.880 --> 01:30:08.159
<v Speaker 9>Sure you know about the Catholic heresy of Foeneism.

1460
01:30:09.960 --> 01:30:12.000
<v Speaker 15>Was a big fan of Father Phenie at one time.

1461
01:30:13.119 --> 01:30:16.119
<v Speaker 9>Yeah. Well, basically the Catholic Church doesn't quld to that

1462
01:30:16.159 --> 01:30:19.079
<v Speaker 9>position obviously. But I do have another question about something

1463
01:30:19.079 --> 01:30:23.920
<v Speaker 9>that was brought up earlier. I think it was with

1464
01:30:24.119 --> 01:30:27.680
<v Speaker 9>I think we're talking about Protestant mariology. And I noticed

1465
01:30:27.680 --> 01:30:32.760
<v Speaker 9>a lot of evangelicals online are very adamant that Mary

1466
01:30:34.239 --> 01:30:36.760
<v Speaker 9>had to have had other children and had to have

1467
01:30:36.800 --> 01:30:38.640
<v Speaker 9>had relations with Joseph, and that was a Catholic I,

1468
01:30:38.680 --> 01:30:41.680
<v Speaker 9>of course believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Did

1469
01:30:41.720 --> 01:30:46.239
<v Speaker 9>this idea that he had to have had other children

1470
01:30:46.319 --> 01:30:48.600
<v Speaker 9>or had to have you know, had relations with Joseph.

1471
01:30:48.680 --> 01:30:53.000
<v Speaker 9>Is this something that comes from like higher biblical criticism.

1472
01:30:53.439 --> 01:30:59.159
<v Speaker 15>Well, it was proposed by Helvidius in the days of Jerome,

1473
01:30:59.359 --> 01:31:02.000
<v Speaker 15>So I mean it's not it's not a new idea,

1474
01:31:03.159 --> 01:31:08.800
<v Speaker 15>but it's very possible that more recent higher critical scholars

1475
01:31:08.840 --> 01:31:11.199
<v Speaker 15>also probably promoted that idea.

1476
01:31:11.279 --> 01:31:14.479
<v Speaker 9>I do know about Helvidius, and I believe Saint Jerome.

1477
01:31:14.199 --> 01:31:15.640
<v Speaker 6>Wrote a work.

1478
01:31:16.039 --> 01:31:18.319
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, I mean his views in three D three a

1479
01:31:18.439 --> 01:31:19.000
<v Speaker 9>D if I'm not.

1480
01:31:18.960 --> 01:31:20.520
<v Speaker 15>Mistaken, Yeah, it pulled up.

1481
01:31:22.760 --> 01:31:26.800
<v Speaker 9>Yes, So another question, because I do know about the

1482
01:31:26.880 --> 01:31:29.720
<v Speaker 9>higher criticism that came out of I'm sure you know

1483
01:31:29.720 --> 01:31:30.479
<v Speaker 9>about people like.

1484
01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:34.800
<v Speaker 28>Adolf von Harnak and what was.

1485
01:31:34.760 --> 01:31:39.399
<v Speaker 15>That other guy, Julius. There's that other guy, uh schlier Marker.

1486
01:31:39.399 --> 01:31:40.479
<v Speaker 15>There's a whole bunch of them.

1487
01:31:40.359 --> 01:31:42.840
<v Speaker 9>Schlier Marker, that Friedrich Schleiermacher. That's why I was thinking of.

1488
01:31:42.880 --> 01:31:45.399
<v Speaker 9>And then there was a lot of big Boltmann. He

1489
01:31:45.560 --> 01:31:49.960
<v Speaker 9>was a more contemporary Rudolph Boltmant. Rudolph Boltmann, my bad,

1490
01:31:50.680 --> 01:31:51.840
<v Speaker 9>but I know this is one of the.

1491
01:31:53.399 --> 01:31:53.760
<v Speaker 27>I know this.

1492
01:31:53.880 --> 01:31:56.600
<v Speaker 9>You argue against Protestants a lot that Luther taking out

1493
01:31:56.640 --> 01:31:58.920
<v Speaker 9>the wanting to take out the Epistle of James and

1494
01:31:58.960 --> 01:32:03.399
<v Speaker 9>some other books led to this, you know, deconstruction.

1495
01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:03.359
<v Speaker 6>Of the canon.

1496
01:32:03.880 --> 01:32:06.880
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, I think that you can definitely trace higher criticism

1497
01:32:06.960 --> 01:32:09.560
<v Speaker 15>to Luther. I mean, I don't think Luther is the

1498
01:32:09.560 --> 01:32:12.720
<v Speaker 15>only influence, but he's a major influence in Germany for

1499
01:32:12.800 --> 01:32:16.840
<v Speaker 15>the idea that the Bible is not a book that's

1500
01:32:17.840 --> 01:32:22.199
<v Speaker 15>owned and possessed and the purview of the church. It's

1501
01:32:22.239 --> 01:32:25.119
<v Speaker 15>now in the hands of the secular academics to dissect

1502
01:32:25.159 --> 01:32:27.319
<v Speaker 15>and to tell us who the Bible really belongs to

1503
01:32:27.359 --> 01:32:29.319
<v Speaker 15>and what the text really are. And I would say

1504
01:32:29.359 --> 01:32:32.640
<v Speaker 15>if you look at somebody like wes Huff, like, I'm

1505
01:32:32.680 --> 01:32:37.039
<v Speaker 15>again glad that wes Huff refuted that black pyramid space bro.

1506
01:32:37.199 --> 01:32:40.760
<v Speaker 15>But I mean, the very thing that wes Huff is

1507
01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:44.119
<v Speaker 15>arguing for, ironically, is the idea that the academics are

1508
01:32:44.119 --> 01:32:45.600
<v Speaker 15>the ones that are going to preserve and tell us

1509
01:32:45.640 --> 01:32:47.840
<v Speaker 15>what the true texts of the Bible are. Is the

1510
01:32:47.920 --> 01:32:52.319
<v Speaker 15>very thing that led to the higher critical scholarship dissecting

1511
01:32:52.319 --> 01:32:53.199
<v Speaker 15>and destroying the Bible.

1512
01:32:54.000 --> 01:32:56.840
<v Speaker 9>This is the guy who was on Joe Rogan recently, right, Yeah,

1513
01:32:57.279 --> 01:32:58.640
<v Speaker 9>he's a Calvinist, isn't he.

1514
01:32:59.319 --> 01:33:01.279
<v Speaker 15>I know he's a Protestant of some comment. I don't

1515
01:33:01.279 --> 01:33:02.239
<v Speaker 15>know what his saturial.

1516
01:33:02.399 --> 01:33:05.520
<v Speaker 9>I think he has made some criticisms of Catholicism.

1517
01:33:05.600 --> 01:33:07.079
<v Speaker 6>I don't know if he has of Orthodoxy.

1518
01:33:07.119 --> 01:33:09.920
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, he has, He's obviously he's critical of them both.

1519
01:33:09.960 --> 01:33:12.399
<v Speaker 15>I mean, he's a committed Protestant of some of some sort.

1520
01:33:13.680 --> 01:33:16.960
<v Speaker 9>Oh are you going to debate him at any point?

1521
01:33:17.000 --> 01:33:20.079
<v Speaker 15>Or well, I've offered, but he says that he's not

1522
01:33:20.760 --> 01:33:22.880
<v Speaker 15>in a place where he's ready to do any more debates,

1523
01:33:22.920 --> 01:33:24.960
<v Speaker 15>So I don't think it'll ever happen. But I'm i

1524
01:33:25.199 --> 01:33:27.439
<v Speaker 15>put out of video saying that I'm more than happy

1525
01:33:27.479 --> 01:33:28.000
<v Speaker 15>to debate him.

1526
01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:30.399
<v Speaker 9>Okay, I haven't watched the Joe Rogan episode with him,

1527
01:33:30.399 --> 01:33:32.640
<v Speaker 9>but I might because I'm kind of interested to hear

1528
01:33:32.680 --> 01:33:34.600
<v Speaker 9>what he says. But I do notice that a lot

1529
01:33:34.640 --> 01:33:38.399
<v Speaker 9>of Protestants have this very individual, individualistic view of the Bible, like.

1530
01:33:38.399 --> 01:33:41.199
<v Speaker 6>It's just in yeah, in my bedroom.

1531
01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:43.600
<v Speaker 15>Well that's called the right, that's called the right of

1532
01:33:43.640 --> 01:33:46.079
<v Speaker 15>private interpretation, and that was actually one of the core

1533
01:33:47.159 --> 01:33:49.880
<v Speaker 15>historic doctrines of the Protestant Reformers.

1534
01:33:49.920 --> 01:33:53.640
<v Speaker 29>So yeah, yeah, are you familiar with this?

1535
01:33:54.840 --> 01:33:55.520
<v Speaker 6>This website?

1536
01:33:55.560 --> 01:33:57.479
<v Speaker 9>It's kind of like non are you familiar with this,

1537
01:33:57.600 --> 01:34:01.560
<v Speaker 9>like non denominational Christian website questions.

1538
01:34:02.239 --> 01:34:04.199
<v Speaker 15>I've seen it, Papa, but I'm not familiar with it.

1539
01:34:04.239 --> 01:34:07.039
<v Speaker 15>But hey, appreciate you coming on. Thank you for being

1540
01:34:07.079 --> 01:34:10.439
<v Speaker 15>a good nature guy. About the jokes. We like to

1541
01:34:10.439 --> 01:34:13.319
<v Speaker 15>have fun over here. Dang, we got twenty almost twenty

1542
01:34:13.319 --> 01:34:17.079
<v Speaker 15>five people in line. So today I'm taking giving a

1543
01:34:17.079 --> 01:34:21.640
<v Speaker 15>precedent to Protestants who disagree. If you're a Protestant disagrees,

1544
01:34:21.720 --> 01:34:25.439
<v Speaker 15>raise your hand. You can ask questions, but if you

1545
01:34:25.439 --> 01:34:27.920
<v Speaker 15>would like to debate, please keep it to making arguments.

1546
01:34:27.960 --> 01:34:31.800
<v Speaker 15>That means that you actually give the basis for your position.

1547
01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:33.880
<v Speaker 15>You don't just keep asserting your position over and overhere,

1548
01:34:33.880 --> 01:34:37.159
<v Speaker 15>you tell us why your position's true. So hopefully you

1549
01:34:37.199 --> 01:34:40.000
<v Speaker 15>have some idea about what it means to make an argument.

1550
01:34:40.079 --> 01:34:43.319
<v Speaker 15>Not trying to be rude to you. Let's see somebody's

1551
01:34:43.359 --> 01:34:44.920
<v Speaker 15>raising their hand. We've got so many people in here.

1552
01:34:47.000 --> 01:34:51.279
<v Speaker 15>Let's see King's fool. Okay, so this is the guy unmuted,

1553
01:34:58.399 --> 01:35:04.880
<v Speaker 15>Go ahead, howdy.

1554
01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:09.199
<v Speaker 35>So you made a video a while back talking about

1555
01:35:09.279 --> 01:35:12.279
<v Speaker 35>Protestism and criticizing them a bit, and this open debate

1556
01:35:12.319 --> 01:35:15.439
<v Speaker 35>performed plat format that you do and three issues you

1557
01:35:15.479 --> 01:35:18.720
<v Speaker 35>said you stayed with. It was it was a historical.

1558
01:35:19.319 --> 01:35:25.159
<v Speaker 35>It was anti sacramental, anti mystical, and just flat out dumb. Yes,

1559
01:35:26.399 --> 01:35:28.680
<v Speaker 35>the problem that I have with that is specifically a

1560
01:35:28.920 --> 01:35:33.079
<v Speaker 35>historical and the issues I have with that, and some

1561
01:35:33.119 --> 01:35:36.159
<v Speaker 35>of the issues you gave for why protestant is antihistorical

1562
01:35:36.960 --> 01:35:40.640
<v Speaker 35>was they don't follow the liturgical warship properly. They don't

1563
01:35:40.760 --> 01:35:43.520
<v Speaker 35>do certain customs and traditions that were practiced by the

1564
01:35:43.520 --> 01:35:48.039
<v Speaker 35>early Church, and don't have the exact same pieces of scripture.

1565
01:35:49.119 --> 01:35:49.600
<v Speaker 6>Some example.

1566
01:35:49.760 --> 01:35:51.920
<v Speaker 15>Those are some examples. There could be many more listed.

1567
01:35:52.079 --> 01:35:58.000
<v Speaker 35>Sure, And the issue I have with that, if Protestantism

1568
01:35:58.520 --> 01:36:02.600
<v Speaker 35>is a historical by those, I would say, so is Orthodoxy.

1569
01:36:03.520 --> 01:36:04.039
<v Speaker 15>And how is that?

1570
01:36:06.119 --> 01:36:06.399
<v Speaker 27>Well?

1571
01:36:06.520 --> 01:36:12.079
<v Speaker 35>For starters Constantinople fell in fourteen fifty three.

1572
01:36:12.279 --> 01:36:14.199
<v Speaker 15>You can't be serious that this is an argument, that

1573
01:36:14.279 --> 01:36:15.199
<v Speaker 15>you think this is an argument.

1574
01:36:16.239 --> 01:36:17.840
<v Speaker 28>It's just it's the start of one.

1575
01:36:17.880 --> 01:36:22.439
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, what does this have to do with the theology.

1576
01:36:22.960 --> 01:36:25.239
<v Speaker 15>This is why I block this guy, because this is

1577
01:36:25.279 --> 01:36:32.560
<v Speaker 15>too too dumb. I mean, are you the synoticon of Orthodoxy?

1578
01:36:33.199 --> 01:36:33.520
<v Speaker 36>Yeah?

1579
01:36:33.600 --> 01:36:37.039
<v Speaker 35>Because I believe in the sonoticon of Orthodoxy. In one

1580
01:36:37.039 --> 01:36:39.920
<v Speaker 35>of the statements you give Thanksgiving, and that is the

1581
01:36:39.920 --> 01:36:43.640
<v Speaker 35>glorification and of the defenders of Orthodoxy might not mistaken.

1582
01:36:44.680 --> 01:36:47.039
<v Speaker 15>Probably, I don't remember. It's a giant text.

1583
01:36:48.680 --> 01:36:52.640
<v Speaker 35>It's a giant text that's different among different branches of Orthodoxy.

1584
01:36:52.279 --> 01:36:56.039
<v Speaker 15>Right because different bishops can add their own personal For example,

1585
01:36:56.119 --> 01:36:59.439
<v Speaker 15>Metropolitan Seraphim a Pereas adds the Joe's witnesses to the

1586
01:36:59.520 --> 01:37:00.680
<v Speaker 15>condom name texture.

1587
01:37:03.279 --> 01:37:05.600
<v Speaker 35>And the problem I have with that is the statement

1588
01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:09.039
<v Speaker 35>of the defender of Orthodoxy, which originally within the church

1589
01:37:09.640 --> 01:37:14.039
<v Speaker 35>was the Holy Roman Emperor, as was stated by Anthony,

1590
01:37:14.079 --> 01:37:18.960
<v Speaker 35>Patriarch of Constantinople in thirteen ninety three to a to

1591
01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:23.560
<v Speaker 35>a letter to Basle the First, the Grand Prince of Moscow, saying,

1592
01:37:23.640 --> 01:37:26.479
<v Speaker 35>my son, it is not possible for Christians to have

1593
01:37:26.520 --> 01:37:28.319
<v Speaker 35>a church and not have an emperor.

1594
01:37:28.680 --> 01:37:30.479
<v Speaker 28>Church and Empire have a great.

1595
01:37:30.319 --> 01:37:31.760
<v Speaker 6>Unity and community.

1596
01:37:32.039 --> 01:37:34.279
<v Speaker 35>It is not possible for them to be separated from

1597
01:37:34.319 --> 01:37:36.760
<v Speaker 35>one another. For the Holy Emperor is not as other

1598
01:37:36.880 --> 01:37:39.439
<v Speaker 35>rulers and the governors of other regions.

1599
01:37:40.039 --> 01:37:43.319
<v Speaker 28>And this is because the emperors from.

1600
01:37:43.159 --> 01:37:48.199
<v Speaker 35>The beginning establish and confirmed true religion Eustia in all

1601
01:37:48.399 --> 01:37:50.359
<v Speaker 35>inhabited world Okiomennia.

1602
01:37:51.039 --> 01:37:55.520
<v Speaker 28>They convoke the Yeah, I don't know to pronounce.

1603
01:37:55.279 --> 01:38:00.119
<v Speaker 15>The word obviously, and so orthodoxy is false because z

1604
01:38:00.119 --> 01:38:00.720
<v Speaker 15>Antium fell.

1605
01:38:02.439 --> 01:38:04.840
<v Speaker 28>I mean, it's not just that Bonantium fell.

1606
01:38:05.760 --> 01:38:10.199
<v Speaker 15>Puppet all right, Now we see why I booted this guy,

1607
01:38:10.479 --> 01:38:13.239
<v Speaker 15>and I was right to boot that guy. This is

1608
01:38:13.279 --> 01:38:19.199
<v Speaker 15>too stupid to even entertain. So, guys, I know you

1609
01:38:19.239 --> 01:38:22.239
<v Speaker 15>want entertainment, but when you asked me to bring back

1610
01:38:22.720 --> 01:38:27.960
<v Speaker 15>Banantium and these kinds of goofballs, it's usually because they're

1611
01:38:28.960 --> 01:38:31.920
<v Speaker 15>booted for a reason. So let's get on my banana

1612
01:38:31.960 --> 01:38:35.560
<v Speaker 15>phone and let's call up Banantium and let's talk to

1613
01:38:35.640 --> 01:38:39.600
<v Speaker 15>the Bananatine emperor and see if we can get any

1614
01:38:39.720 --> 01:38:43.840
<v Speaker 15>history about why he's not ruling on an earthly throne

1615
01:38:43.880 --> 01:38:50.119
<v Speaker 15>to help ensure Banantium. Hello, Hello, Can anyone else call

1616
01:38:50.159 --> 01:38:51.720
<v Speaker 15>in the banana phone and see if they can get

1617
01:38:51.760 --> 01:38:56.279
<v Speaker 15>the Bananantine Emperor? Hello? I just hear monkey is chirping.

1618
01:38:57.880 --> 01:39:00.920
<v Speaker 15>I think I called the Matt Dillon monkey line accidentally.

1619
01:39:01.000 --> 01:39:13.960
<v Speaker 15>I got Matt Dolamuchi on speed dial. True, byzantium fell.

1620
01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:16.439
<v Speaker 15>I don't know if you guys knew this, but byzantium fell,

1621
01:39:17.199 --> 01:39:23.600
<v Speaker 15>So time to pack it up. Wortho, bros. Your religion's dead.

1622
01:39:25.079 --> 01:39:28.119
<v Speaker 15>I don't where is bumpkin? He keeps thumbing down, like

1623
01:39:28.159 --> 01:39:31.439
<v Speaker 15>fifty times in a row. Do you want to come on? Dude?

1624
01:39:31.439 --> 01:39:34.880
<v Speaker 15>I don't understand what your what's your mental illness is?

1625
01:39:35.119 --> 01:39:35.199
<v Speaker 6>Like?

1626
01:39:41.159 --> 01:39:43.279
<v Speaker 15>Where are you at, Bumpkin? I mean, are you not

1627
01:39:43.399 --> 01:39:45.880
<v Speaker 15>in the line to speak? You just want to thumb down?

1628
01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:54.760
<v Speaker 15>This is so stupid. Look, uh, just to like me

1629
01:39:54.960 --> 01:40:00.319
<v Speaker 15>as Byzantine Emperor of the Banana Tine Emperor of the

1630
01:40:01.079 --> 01:40:07.159
<v Speaker 15>are you'll cool ya mine and the problem solved? Bro Okay, Bumpkin.

1631
01:40:07.199 --> 01:40:10.359
<v Speaker 15>If you're not gonna come on to debate, then you're

1632
01:40:10.399 --> 01:40:13.039
<v Speaker 15>just clogging up with all of your memes, I mean,

1633
01:40:13.039 --> 01:40:24.199
<v Speaker 15>your emojis, so you're wasting everybody's time, by the way

1634
01:40:24.239 --> 01:40:25.439
<v Speaker 15>I would. I don't even want to live in the

1635
01:40:25.479 --> 01:40:27.960
<v Speaker 15>Byzantine Emperor Empire. I want to live in the Banana

1636
01:40:27.960 --> 01:40:34.399
<v Speaker 15>teen Emperor Empire, the Banana teen Empire where we're all

1637
01:40:34.560 --> 01:40:41.800
<v Speaker 15>matt Dela monkeys. Go ahead, Hello?

1638
01:40:42.279 --> 01:40:42.520
<v Speaker 6>Hello?

1639
01:40:44.159 --> 01:40:45.199
<v Speaker 28>No, no, sorry? Hello?

1640
01:40:45.319 --> 01:40:45.840
<v Speaker 6>Can you hear me?

1641
01:40:47.039 --> 01:40:47.239
<v Speaker 15>Yes?

1642
01:40:52.920 --> 01:40:53.680
<v Speaker 6>What the fuck is that?

1643
01:40:56.039 --> 01:40:56.720
<v Speaker 15>That's me? Bro?

1644
01:40:57.880 --> 01:40:59.319
<v Speaker 6>Oh, you're making point of how I speak.

1645
01:40:59.840 --> 01:41:01.600
<v Speaker 15>I do impressions. I do them all the time.

1646
01:41:02.319 --> 01:41:03.880
<v Speaker 6>That's not very Christian, is Oh?

1647
01:41:03.920 --> 01:41:05.920
<v Speaker 15>Here we go? That's a pious of you to point

1648
01:41:05.920 --> 01:41:07.399
<v Speaker 15>out how impressions are not Christian.

1649
01:41:07.640 --> 01:41:09.319
<v Speaker 6>That's not very christ like now, is it?

1650
01:41:09.680 --> 01:41:12.119
<v Speaker 17>Okay?

1651
01:41:12.720 --> 01:41:12.760
<v Speaker 6>No?

1652
01:41:12.960 --> 01:41:15.439
<v Speaker 8>Well, have you ever had a psychedelic experience?

1653
01:41:15.800 --> 01:41:21.239
<v Speaker 15>Oh, he's getting even even deeper. Were you praying while

1654
01:41:21.239 --> 01:41:23.600
<v Speaker 15>you were on your psychedelic experience? Was it mystical?

1655
01:41:25.319 --> 01:41:25.640
<v Speaker 6>Well?

1656
01:41:26.279 --> 01:41:28.439
<v Speaker 15>I mean, are you praying for me?

1657
01:41:28.520 --> 01:41:28.760
<v Speaker 17>Now?

1658
01:41:29.840 --> 01:41:34.000
<v Speaker 6>Well? You know, basically Hell is real? You know that, right?

1659
01:41:34.039 --> 01:41:34.680
<v Speaker 6>Hell is real?

1660
01:41:34.920 --> 01:41:36.720
<v Speaker 15>Are you looking forward to me going there?

1661
01:41:38.720 --> 01:41:45.000
<v Speaker 6>No? You know that Tibetans are right. Basically reincarnations.

1662
01:41:46.039 --> 01:41:47.720
<v Speaker 15>Have an actual lunatic here.

1663
01:41:48.319 --> 01:41:49.000
<v Speaker 6>Do you know that?

1664
01:41:49.840 --> 01:41:53.359
<v Speaker 15>Good job, dude? It never fails that when the people

1665
01:41:53.439 --> 01:41:56.600
<v Speaker 15>are super pious and they want to talk about you

1666
01:41:57.039 --> 01:42:01.960
<v Speaker 15>christ like that, they're it's you got. The entertainment is

1667
01:42:02.000 --> 01:42:10.880
<v Speaker 15>about the flow. Cost Listen, I'm having fun today. I

1668
01:42:10.880 --> 01:42:16.800
<v Speaker 15>don't care. It's all good. The Tibetans are right. You

1669
01:42:16.840 --> 01:42:19.119
<v Speaker 15>go to hell, but you get reincarnated. What am I

1670
01:42:19.159 --> 01:42:23.279
<v Speaker 15>coming back as, hopefully as a banana teen emperor of

1671
01:42:23.359 --> 01:42:24.800
<v Speaker 15>the Banana Empire? What's up?

1672
01:42:24.840 --> 01:42:25.000
<v Speaker 17>Man?

1673
01:42:25.079 --> 01:42:31.920
<v Speaker 15>I'm mute? Cost? Is you a BHR bro? I'm mute?

1674
01:42:31.960 --> 01:42:38.520
<v Speaker 6>You're here all right? Ju is it me?

1675
01:42:38.600 --> 01:42:39.600
<v Speaker 15>I'm I up? Yes, sir?

1676
01:42:40.720 --> 01:42:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Uh?

1677
01:42:41.039 --> 01:42:44.359
<v Speaker 9>Just a few questions I've only heard you one time.

1678
01:42:44.319 --> 01:42:45.039
<v Speaker 6>In another space.

1679
01:42:45.039 --> 01:42:48.039
<v Speaker 37>But what are your thoughts on uh, positive Christianity and

1680
01:42:48.079 --> 01:42:49.920
<v Speaker 37>national socialism?

1681
01:42:49.960 --> 01:42:51.760
<v Speaker 15>Positive Christianity. I don't even know what that is.

1682
01:42:53.439 --> 01:42:55.000
<v Speaker 6>Okay, we could we could skip that. I could I

1683
01:42:55.119 --> 01:42:55.920
<v Speaker 6>send you some links.

1684
01:42:56.039 --> 01:42:59.399
<v Speaker 38>It's essentially the type of Christianity that the National Socialist

1685
01:42:59.439 --> 01:42:59.960
<v Speaker 38>wan attenstedt.

1686
01:43:00.600 --> 01:43:04.079
<v Speaker 15>Here we go, Here comes the Feds. Good job moving on,

1687
01:43:11.039 --> 01:43:14.840
<v Speaker 15>Here come the Feds. I'm mute, dude, just kidding. Who

1688
01:43:15.039 --> 01:43:18.279
<v Speaker 15>who's up next? We're on a roll here with quack

1689
01:43:18.279 --> 01:43:26.000
<v Speaker 15>a doodles quack a doodle do. Okay, where's this bumpkin dude?

1690
01:43:26.560 --> 01:43:29.560
<v Speaker 15>Because all he does is thumb down and it's like

1691
01:43:29.640 --> 01:43:35.479
<v Speaker 15>clogging up my screen. So where are you wasting this?

1692
01:43:35.680 --> 01:43:38.960
<v Speaker 15>You just wasting time? Dog, bumpkin? Are you gonna come

1693
01:43:38.960 --> 01:43:51.800
<v Speaker 15>to date otherwise? Immediately you first out the block and

1694
01:43:51.920 --> 01:44:06.359
<v Speaker 15>get rid of that other dude.

1695
01:44:10.520 --> 01:44:13.000
<v Speaker 39>Hey, Yet the start of the stream, he said that

1696
01:44:13.560 --> 01:44:17.560
<v Speaker 39>a high taper faid was out of the style, A

1697
01:44:17.640 --> 01:44:21.800
<v Speaker 39>high taper faid. Yes, And if you think that in

1698
01:44:21.840 --> 01:44:24.399
<v Speaker 39>your orthodox I mean you're their best guy.

1699
01:44:24.840 --> 01:44:26.119
<v Speaker 6>So like, if you get.

1700
01:44:25.880 --> 01:44:30.279
<v Speaker 39>That wrong, how much else you gonna get wrong? Me

1701
01:44:30.319 --> 01:44:32.760
<v Speaker 39>and my Protestant buddies. We got some high taper fates, so.

1702
01:44:33.119 --> 01:44:36.000
<v Speaker 15>I knew what would hit you below the belt and

1703
01:44:36.600 --> 01:44:37.199
<v Speaker 15>raw you up.

1704
01:44:38.720 --> 01:44:40.000
<v Speaker 6>It was brutal. It was brutal.

1705
01:44:40.039 --> 01:44:43.520
<v Speaker 15>I mean, are you Are you sucking on I p

1706
01:44:43.680 --> 01:44:49.039
<v Speaker 15>A right now too? Yes, sir, you guys come out

1707
01:44:49.039 --> 01:44:52.840
<v Speaker 15>of a factory dog. Yes, what's what's on your mind?

1708
01:44:53.600 --> 01:44:54.880
<v Speaker 6>Oh? No, that does all I have to say. I

1709
01:44:55.359 --> 01:44:55.760
<v Speaker 6>just wanted to do.

1710
01:44:55.920 --> 01:44:57.199
<v Speaker 15>That's all you had. I thought you were going to

1711
01:44:57.239 --> 01:44:58.279
<v Speaker 15>come with some heat, dude.

1712
01:44:59.359 --> 01:45:00.960
<v Speaker 6>I mean I don't have that much heat. You know.

1713
01:45:01.199 --> 01:45:04.000
<v Speaker 15>It's like, well, if you keep drinking those I pas,

1714
01:45:04.039 --> 01:45:05.640
<v Speaker 15>you will you can be sweating because you're going to

1715
01:45:05.640 --> 01:45:12.159
<v Speaker 15>be a man boob, a big old man bob. But

1716
01:45:12.279 --> 01:45:14.159
<v Speaker 15>we're on a roll today. Actually, that guy, I like

1717
01:45:14.199 --> 01:45:17.800
<v Speaker 15>that guy. That was funny. What good grief? We got

1718
01:45:17.840 --> 01:45:24.359
<v Speaker 15>like twenty three people. Now today is feral. We got

1719
01:45:24.520 --> 01:45:32.079
<v Speaker 15>feral people on here. Who's up next? Max?

1720
01:45:32.560 --> 01:45:33.119
<v Speaker 6>There we go.

1721
01:45:35.479 --> 01:45:37.319
<v Speaker 15>You know, those feral days are the funnest because they're

1722
01:45:37.319 --> 01:45:40.479
<v Speaker 15>the most entertaining to Jay.

1723
01:45:42.439 --> 01:45:44.279
<v Speaker 9>I swear you've been ignoring me for like the.

1724
01:45:44.239 --> 01:45:47.439
<v Speaker 15>Past hour, But it's because I'm scared. That's why I

1725
01:45:47.479 --> 01:45:50.119
<v Speaker 15>have no no idea who you are you're a blank profile,

1726
01:45:50.239 --> 01:45:55.119
<v Speaker 15>but I sensed that the blank profile would destroy me,

1727
01:45:55.520 --> 01:45:56.720
<v Speaker 15>So I'm super scared of you.

1728
01:45:58.640 --> 01:45:59.760
<v Speaker 6>Actually, i'm scared of you.

1729
01:45:59.800 --> 01:46:02.760
<v Speaker 22>I've seen you debate people like Madala HUNTI and really

1730
01:46:02.960 --> 01:46:04.520
<v Speaker 22>really smart atheist.

1731
01:46:04.079 --> 01:46:04.239
<v Speaker 6>Like.

1732
01:46:06.000 --> 01:46:09.640
<v Speaker 22>Pretty intimidating guy. But I'm not a Christian. I'm not

1733
01:46:09.640 --> 01:46:13.880
<v Speaker 22>a Protestant or a Catholic. I'm an I'm an atheist agnostic,

1734
01:46:14.880 --> 01:46:16.920
<v Speaker 22>and I actually have a verse that will either make

1735
01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:20.039
<v Speaker 22>or break Christianity. And I post it in the chat

1736
01:46:20.079 --> 01:46:21.960
<v Speaker 22>section of this space. If you want to click on

1737
01:46:22.000 --> 01:46:24.319
<v Speaker 22>that button there and show.

1738
01:46:24.119 --> 01:46:26.640
<v Speaker 15>Your audience, why don't you just read it?

1739
01:46:28.880 --> 01:46:30.640
<v Speaker 9>Well, I think it'd be better if they could.

1740
01:46:30.439 --> 01:46:31.000
<v Speaker 6>All see it.

1741
01:46:32.439 --> 01:46:33.119
<v Speaker 15>What's the verse?

1742
01:46:35.000 --> 01:46:36.800
<v Speaker 9>Revelation sixteen twelve.

1743
01:46:39.800 --> 01:46:40.880
<v Speaker 15>All right, I'll pull it up here.

1744
01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:44.560
<v Speaker 22>We actually, I think it's Revelation six twelve. It's either

1745
01:46:44.640 --> 01:46:47.399
<v Speaker 22>Revelation sixteen twelve or Revelation six twelve.

1746
01:46:49.159 --> 01:46:51.640
<v Speaker 9>The move to talks about the phrase river dry up.

1747
01:46:52.399 --> 01:46:56.079
<v Speaker 15>So you don't even know, but you're gonna bibble scholaris here.

1748
01:46:56.279 --> 01:46:58.720
<v Speaker 9>Well, no, I know, I know which.

1749
01:46:59.199 --> 01:47:01.600
<v Speaker 15>It's not six and it's not sixteen too, So you

1750
01:47:01.640 --> 01:47:04.680
<v Speaker 15>don't even know the verses that you're gonna okay.

1751
01:47:04.479 --> 01:47:05.680
<v Speaker 28>It's sixteen, it's sixteen.

1752
01:47:05.760 --> 01:47:07.119
<v Speaker 6>No, it's sixteen twelve.

1753
01:47:06.960 --> 01:47:09.159
<v Speaker 15>Okay, or wasting everybody's time.

1754
01:47:10.039 --> 01:47:12.720
<v Speaker 22>No, no, no, And it says Andy six Angel Poorta

1755
01:47:12.840 --> 01:47:15.119
<v Speaker 22>is vile upon the Gray Phraates and the water there

1756
01:47:15.319 --> 01:47:16.840
<v Speaker 22>was dried up that way, that the way that the

1757
01:47:16.920 --> 01:47:21.920
<v Speaker 22>Kings of the East might be prepared, And basically the

1758
01:47:21.960 --> 01:47:24.680
<v Speaker 22>phrase river is predicted to dry up in twenty forty.

1759
01:47:25.079 --> 01:47:27.960
<v Speaker 22>So if this doesn't happen, then Christianity will be confirmed.

1760
01:47:27.640 --> 01:47:29.960
<v Speaker 15>As a false throne. You're so stupid, dude. I can't

1761
01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:32.479
<v Speaker 15>even handle like the idiocy of this. I don't believe

1762
01:47:32.479 --> 01:47:33.800
<v Speaker 15>that this is a future prediction.

1763
01:47:36.199 --> 01:47:36.720
<v Speaker 6>What do you think it?

1764
01:47:41.399 --> 01:47:53.640
<v Speaker 15>No, it's revolution twenty seven thirty Heavan, Please don't call

1765
01:47:53.680 --> 01:47:56.520
<v Speaker 15>in if your IQ is not above eighty, please just

1766
01:47:56.920 --> 01:48:04.119
<v Speaker 15>spare us. I know people want entertainment, but Evan, Jay,

1767
01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:05.560
<v Speaker 15>how's it going?

1768
01:48:05.880 --> 01:48:09.399
<v Speaker 38>Yep, No debates some questions, but just wanted to uh

1769
01:48:09.880 --> 01:48:13.880
<v Speaker 38>tell you my thanks to my appreciation. I was chrismated

1770
01:48:14.600 --> 01:48:18.760
<v Speaker 38>on theophony over the last week. So yeah, that's it.

1771
01:48:19.000 --> 01:48:22.000
<v Speaker 15>Hey, thank you appreciate it, man, Thank you many years

1772
01:48:22.000 --> 01:48:23.159
<v Speaker 15>to you. Glad to hear that dog.

1773
01:48:29.399 --> 01:48:35.159
<v Speaker 17>Josie, Hello, mister Jason, how are you doing?

1774
01:48:37.239 --> 01:48:39.239
<v Speaker 6>Hello, mister Jason. You hear me?

1775
01:48:40.920 --> 01:48:45.760
<v Speaker 34>Yeah, I just have a question about this thing.

1776
01:48:45.880 --> 01:48:46.079
<v Speaker 6>Man.

1777
01:48:46.159 --> 01:48:48.840
<v Speaker 9>It's the Trinity doesn't make any.

1778
01:48:48.640 --> 01:48:49.319
<v Speaker 6>Sense, all right?

1779
01:48:50.600 --> 01:48:56.039
<v Speaker 15>That was really funny, Albert, It is a Jamie said,

1780
01:48:56.079 --> 01:48:58.720
<v Speaker 15>is a full moon? Ye, mercurys and mercury is in

1781
01:48:58.840 --> 01:49:09.920
<v Speaker 15>retrogaate retrogade. It's in retrogade. Mercury is in retro gay. Hello,

1782
01:49:11.760 --> 01:49:15.520
<v Speaker 15>I'm you dude. You've been You've been yapping on the mojis.

1783
01:49:15.560 --> 01:49:15.920
<v Speaker 15>What's up?

1784
01:49:18.680 --> 01:49:19.319
<v Speaker 6>What's up?

1785
01:49:19.520 --> 01:49:20.159
<v Speaker 28>Room?

1786
01:49:20.239 --> 01:49:20.760
<v Speaker 6>What's up?

1787
01:49:20.880 --> 01:49:21.159
<v Speaker 14>Jay?

1788
01:49:21.279 --> 01:49:22.479
<v Speaker 6>What's up everybody?

1789
01:49:22.880 --> 01:49:25.079
<v Speaker 9>Since we're hitting up with the Bible coats.

1790
01:49:24.960 --> 01:49:28.319
<v Speaker 27>Matthew seventeen twenty, bye, blah blah blah, boring stuff.

1791
01:49:29.039 --> 01:49:34.560
<v Speaker 30>If you have faith, as the mustard seed, you will

1792
01:49:34.600 --> 01:49:39.039
<v Speaker 30>say to this this mountain move from here to there,

1793
01:49:41.680 --> 01:49:42.520
<v Speaker 30>and it will.

1794
01:49:42.279 --> 01:49:45.439
<v Speaker 27>Move and nothing will be impossible for you.

1795
01:49:46.119 --> 01:49:49.600
<v Speaker 30>I love the space, I love of what you're doing.

1796
01:49:50.279 --> 01:49:52.720
<v Speaker 6>Keep going on. Jesus is great.

1797
01:49:52.800 --> 01:49:57.840
<v Speaker 27>But always remember, in seventeen seventy six, when our beautiful

1798
01:49:57.920 --> 01:50:02.640
<v Speaker 27>country was created, all actually were kicked out because we

1799
01:50:02.680 --> 01:50:03.600
<v Speaker 27>don't want the role.

1800
01:50:09.000 --> 01:50:12.960
<v Speaker 15>Next, who is a protest of that disagrees has an

1801
01:50:13.000 --> 01:50:21.399
<v Speaker 15>actual argument? Raise your hand? We got twenty two people.

1802
01:50:22.359 --> 01:50:27.239
<v Speaker 15>Carlos abrils me badly got into spot bro.

1803
01:50:30.359 --> 01:50:34.560
<v Speaker 37>Okay, Jay, I have a quick question about canonicity for saints.

1804
01:50:35.680 --> 01:50:38.079
<v Speaker 37>I felt like it was kind of strange that there

1805
01:50:38.079 --> 01:50:42.520
<v Speaker 37>were some claims that the Rokor was saying that certain

1806
01:50:42.560 --> 01:50:44.960
<v Speaker 37>people are canonized as saints when they shouldn't have been,

1807
01:50:45.520 --> 01:50:48.079
<v Speaker 37>and that it was kind of propagated, or they'd be

1808
01:50:48.119 --> 01:50:49.520
<v Speaker 37>considered martyrs.

1809
01:50:49.119 --> 01:50:52.479
<v Speaker 6>Fighting for Russia in an inappropriate way. I just didn't

1810
01:50:52.520 --> 01:50:54.000
<v Speaker 6>really know what to make of that.

1811
01:50:54.880 --> 01:50:58.760
<v Speaker 15>I thought you were talking about the Romanov servants and

1812
01:50:58.880 --> 01:51:01.600
<v Speaker 15>jon Hus. What do you mean fighting in an improper way?

1813
01:51:01.640 --> 01:51:03.359
<v Speaker 15>I don't know what that means.

1814
01:51:04.119 --> 01:51:07.079
<v Speaker 37>Well, I've heard that the current patriarch has said that,

1815
01:51:08.039 --> 01:51:10.319
<v Speaker 37>you know, people were active in the war in Ukraine

1816
01:51:10.359 --> 01:51:12.880
<v Speaker 37>could be considered martyrs for the church and whatnot.

1817
01:51:14.399 --> 01:51:16.439
<v Speaker 15>I'm not exactly sure what he said. I mean, he

1818
01:51:16.479 --> 01:51:19.520
<v Speaker 15>could have said that it might be a controversial statement

1819
01:51:19.600 --> 01:51:21.039
<v Speaker 15>and there might be some people in real corps that

1820
01:51:21.079 --> 01:51:24.239
<v Speaker 15>disagree with it, but also, I mean, defending your homeland

1821
01:51:24.279 --> 01:51:28.720
<v Speaker 15>and dying for it could be considered a type of martyrroom.

1822
01:51:28.960 --> 01:51:31.079
<v Speaker 37>Okay, and I have one question related to Yakub.

1823
01:51:33.239 --> 01:51:34.720
<v Speaker 15>Everything about Yakuba is true.

1824
01:51:35.479 --> 01:51:38.680
<v Speaker 26>Okay, I heard theos ours were killed in a conspiracy

1825
01:51:39.680 --> 01:51:40.479
<v Speaker 26>about Yakub.

1826
01:51:41.640 --> 01:51:42.880
<v Speaker 6>I know I'm just rolling, but.

1827
01:51:45.520 --> 01:51:54.680
<v Speaker 15>That's all right, But everything about Yakuba is true. So yes, yeah,

1828
01:51:54.720 --> 01:51:58.279
<v Speaker 15>I think in the Orthodox Church, canonicity for saints or

1829
01:51:58.319 --> 01:52:00.880
<v Speaker 15>being a saint is not It's not the same ideas

1830
01:52:00.920 --> 01:52:04.720
<v Speaker 15>what Roman Catholics think. So Romancalis think that, like you did,

1831
01:52:05.560 --> 01:52:07.319
<v Speaker 15>it's not just the miracles, but you have to live

1832
01:52:07.359 --> 01:52:09.239
<v Speaker 15>a life of what they call heroic virtue and all

1833
01:52:09.239 --> 01:52:12.279
<v Speaker 15>this kind of stuff. And then you know, the ghostbusters

1834
01:52:12.279 --> 01:52:14.600
<v Speaker 15>in Rome investigate your case and they determine if there

1835
01:52:14.640 --> 01:52:19.039
<v Speaker 15>really were three miracles based on your background or excuse me,

1836
01:52:19.079 --> 01:52:22.720
<v Speaker 15>the intercessions and all this kind of stuff. But you'll

1837
01:52:22.760 --> 01:52:25.279
<v Speaker 15>notice there's a lot of odd balls in the Orthodox

1838
01:52:25.319 --> 01:52:26.960
<v Speaker 15>Church and history that have become saints, and a lot

1839
01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:29.640
<v Speaker 15>of times the Orthodox Church, saintthood is often tied to

1840
01:52:31.439 --> 01:52:34.199
<v Speaker 15>one significant noble thing that was done or act or

1841
01:52:34.239 --> 01:52:37.520
<v Speaker 15>martyrdom or something like that. So not everybody who is

1842
01:52:37.520 --> 01:52:41.880
<v Speaker 15>a saint Orthodox Church necessarily lived an immaculate lifetime of

1843
01:52:41.920 --> 01:52:45.279
<v Speaker 15>saintly living. So there's a lot of kings who did

1844
01:52:45.319 --> 01:52:47.960
<v Speaker 15>some odd things. Even Constantine is a saint Orthodox Church.

1845
01:52:48.000 --> 01:52:51.000
<v Speaker 15>You didn't always do everything in a saintly way. And

1846
01:52:51.000 --> 01:52:53.960
<v Speaker 15>there have been sainted kings and kings of Serbia and

1847
01:52:54.039 --> 01:52:58.920
<v Speaker 15>other areas that are saints that didn't necessarily do an think.

1848
01:52:59.159 --> 01:53:01.640
<v Speaker 15>I didn't even think the wro Oz, you know, lived

1849
01:53:02.520 --> 01:53:08.479
<v Speaker 15>a saintly perfect life. But they were martyrs, and so

1850
01:53:09.560 --> 01:53:13.680
<v Speaker 15>it's possible that a person who dies in the defense

1851
01:53:13.720 --> 01:53:16.279
<v Speaker 15>of their homeland could be a martyr. But I doubt

1852
01:53:16.319 --> 01:53:19.199
<v Speaker 15>that the patriarch was saying that everyone who dies in

1853
01:53:19.279 --> 01:53:21.399
<v Speaker 15>war is a martyr. That that seems far fetched. But

1854
01:53:21.399 --> 01:53:25.600
<v Speaker 15>I'm not sure what the exact statement is. And also,

1855
01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:28.600
<v Speaker 15>I mean, if I'm not even sure what road course

1856
01:53:28.600 --> 01:53:30.720
<v Speaker 15>position on that is, they might disagree. I don't know.

1857
01:53:31.520 --> 01:53:35.000
<v Speaker 15>I mean, a patriarch can say things wrong. We're not papists, right,

1858
01:53:35.079 --> 01:53:39.399
<v Speaker 15>we don't agree with everything that the patriarch costs Antonople says.

1859
01:53:40.039 --> 01:53:43.720
<v Speaker 15>You know so, but I don't think that it's wrong,

1860
01:53:44.000 --> 01:53:48.239
<v Speaker 15>or I do think it's virtuous to defend your homeland.

1861
01:53:48.800 --> 01:53:52.600
<v Speaker 15>Isn't there that story too of in the Russo Japanese War,

1862
01:53:53.479 --> 01:53:56.279
<v Speaker 15>there's a story of one of the Japanese bishops who

1863
01:53:56.439 --> 01:54:01.600
<v Speaker 15>didn't want to be involved in the conflict. But he

1864
01:54:01.680 --> 01:54:04.199
<v Speaker 15>still said that it was right for him to pray

1865
01:54:04.279 --> 01:54:08.479
<v Speaker 15>for his people and the Japanese people in the unfortunate

1866
01:54:08.520 --> 01:54:10.560
<v Speaker 15>situation that they were if they were going to war

1867
01:54:10.560 --> 01:54:14.359
<v Speaker 15>against Russia. So there's a lot of things in history.

1868
01:54:14.399 --> 01:54:18.760
<v Speaker 15>They're complex. There's not going to be these easy, you know,

1869
01:54:18.800 --> 01:54:23.359
<v Speaker 15>like spurgatism, black and white, simple situations where they're all

1870
01:54:23.359 --> 01:54:25.439
<v Speaker 15>the bad guys, wor Ald the good guys. Life is

1871
01:54:25.520 --> 01:54:28.479
<v Speaker 15>very complex and it's not you're not always able to

1872
01:54:28.520 --> 01:54:34.000
<v Speaker 15>fit everything into like a all or nothing scenario. Who

1873
01:54:34.359 --> 01:54:38.279
<v Speaker 15>is up next? We're giving precedent to precedent, excuse me

1874
01:54:38.319 --> 01:54:41.800
<v Speaker 15>to preference to Protestants today. If you're a prosident who disagrees,

1875
01:54:42.600 --> 01:54:44.880
<v Speaker 15>you go to the headline, raise your hand. Is there

1876
01:54:44.880 --> 01:54:48.319
<v Speaker 15>any Protestants in the chaw We got still twenty plus people?

1877
01:54:49.319 --> 01:54:56.039
<v Speaker 15>All right, Steiger, and then we'll go to you. How

1878
01:54:56.039 --> 01:54:58.800
<v Speaker 15>are you a Protestant when you got an icon as

1879
01:54:58.840 --> 01:55:06.600
<v Speaker 15>your picture that I'm making Since, okay, Steiger, are you there?

1880
01:55:06.600 --> 01:55:07.279
<v Speaker 15>Are you connecting?

1881
01:55:08.920 --> 01:55:09.119
<v Speaker 6>Well?

1882
01:55:09.119 --> 01:55:11.399
<v Speaker 15>He tries to connect over just a couple of super jets.

1883
01:55:23.479 --> 01:55:25.560
<v Speaker 15>How long we've been going for? Over two hours? Doesn't

1884
01:55:25.600 --> 01:55:27.600
<v Speaker 15>we just started? What the heck, dude, Tom is we're

1885
01:55:27.600 --> 01:55:31.560
<v Speaker 15>in some kind of time warp two hours. Dang, so

1886
01:55:31.720 --> 01:55:34.920
<v Speaker 15>we just started this. Okay, Well he can't connect. I

1887
01:55:34.920 --> 01:55:36.640
<v Speaker 15>don't know what his problem is, Stiger, you want to

1888
01:55:36.680 --> 01:55:44.720
<v Speaker 15>try again, There's no, You're not connecting. Coffee cup, the doors,

1889
01:55:44.760 --> 01:55:48.079
<v Speaker 15>the doors, three dollars, Sam Harris. Sam Harris signed your

1890
01:55:48.079 --> 01:55:52.239
<v Speaker 15>Golden Girls paraphernalia in his closet. Absolutely, go ahead.

1891
01:55:52.239 --> 01:55:52.600
<v Speaker 6>What's up?

1892
01:55:52.600 --> 01:55:53.199
<v Speaker 15>Coffee cup?

1893
01:55:55.279 --> 01:55:55.600
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

1894
01:55:55.680 --> 01:56:01.319
<v Speaker 31>So does the Eastern or our church thing that Saint

1895
01:56:01.319 --> 01:56:02.640
<v Speaker 31>Augustine is a saint?

1896
01:56:03.399 --> 01:56:06.079
<v Speaker 15>Yes, he's called a saint of the Fifth acta medical council.

1897
01:56:07.520 --> 01:56:09.319
<v Speaker 6>Okay? Did he old heresies?

1898
01:56:10.159 --> 01:56:13.600
<v Speaker 15>He held to errors? An error is not necessarily heresy.

1899
01:56:13.960 --> 01:56:16.840
<v Speaker 15>Every church father, in some way has some error that

1900
01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:18.079
<v Speaker 15>doesn't make them all heretics.

1901
01:56:19.279 --> 01:56:19.560
<v Speaker 6>Okay.

1902
01:56:19.600 --> 01:56:23.560
<v Speaker 31>So the philioque absolute divine simplicity or in heresies.

1903
01:56:24.239 --> 01:56:26.680
<v Speaker 15>A heresy is something that's declared to heresy by the

1904
01:56:26.800 --> 01:56:30.760
<v Speaker 15>church eventually in a council. Augustine didn't believe anything erroneous

1905
01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:32.920
<v Speaker 15>at his time that he knew was a heresy. So

1906
01:56:33.119 --> 01:56:35.520
<v Speaker 15>i philioque is not condemned until the Middle Ages.

1907
01:56:36.439 --> 01:56:41.079
<v Speaker 31>Okay, so before the nice and kind of the Nicean Council.

1908
01:56:41.239 --> 01:56:43.560
<v Speaker 31>If someone held that Jesus was in God or go

1909
01:56:43.680 --> 01:56:46.880
<v Speaker 31>substantial with the Father, then they were in heretics, right according.

1910
01:56:46.600 --> 01:56:49.920
<v Speaker 15>To that law. No, no, because some errors are significant

1911
01:56:50.000 --> 01:56:54.199
<v Speaker 15>enough that the person that holds them. It's the attitude

1912
01:56:54.239 --> 01:56:56.640
<v Speaker 15>that they have and the humility that they have. So,

1913
01:56:56.680 --> 01:56:59.520
<v Speaker 15>for example, when Augustine writes on the Trinity, he says

1914
01:56:59.520 --> 01:57:02.880
<v Speaker 15>in book three, I am speculating, and I give these

1915
01:57:02.920 --> 01:57:06.479
<v Speaker 15>books to the judgment of the universal Church, and if

1916
01:57:06.479 --> 01:57:09.520
<v Speaker 15>there's anything wrong in them, they can be rejected. So

1917
01:57:09.560 --> 01:57:12.840
<v Speaker 15>that's the attitude of humility that for example, Origin didn't have.

1918
01:57:13.039 --> 01:57:15.920
<v Speaker 15>Origin was obstinate to the end of his life in

1919
01:57:15.960 --> 01:57:18.560
<v Speaker 15>his heresies, and he did not submit to the judgment

1920
01:57:18.560 --> 01:57:21.800
<v Speaker 15>of the Church, whereas Augustine did. So Augustine's humility is

1921
01:57:21.840 --> 01:57:24.720
<v Speaker 15>what covers the theological speculations and mistakes that he had,

1922
01:57:24.760 --> 01:57:27.000
<v Speaker 15>whereas for the people that you're talking about, it's different.

1923
01:57:28.079 --> 01:57:28.960
<v Speaker 6>Okay, gotcha?

1924
01:57:29.640 --> 01:57:33.399
<v Speaker 31>Was He later corrected though, by other bishops and other theologians.

1925
01:57:34.000 --> 01:57:36.760
<v Speaker 15>If he hands his book to the Church for judgment,

1926
01:57:37.119 --> 01:57:40.159
<v Speaker 15>and that doesn't mean that it happens overnight, if the

1927
01:57:40.239 --> 01:57:43.439
<v Speaker 15>Church doesn't in his lifetime judge it, but the Church

1928
01:57:43.520 --> 01:57:45.760
<v Speaker 15>judges by the time of the Fifth Ecumenical Council that

1929
01:57:45.840 --> 01:57:48.000
<v Speaker 15>he's a saint. And by the way, do you know

1930
01:57:48.039 --> 01:57:51.680
<v Speaker 15>what book the Fifth Ecumenical Council lists as his pre

1931
01:57:51.800 --> 01:57:55.760
<v Speaker 15>eminent theological work. No, okay, it's none of those books.

1932
01:57:56.279 --> 01:57:59.119
<v Speaker 15>It's against the Manicheans, so it's not on the Trinity,

1933
01:57:59.680 --> 01:58:01.359
<v Speaker 15>or of God or any of these other works.

1934
01:58:02.880 --> 01:58:05.800
<v Speaker 6>Okay, gotcha, that was my question. Thank you. Right.

1935
01:58:05.840 --> 01:58:08.600
<v Speaker 15>So, heresy is a sin of will and obstinacy, not

1936
01:58:08.760 --> 01:58:12.520
<v Speaker 15>just a sin of mistake or error. And not even

1937
01:58:12.640 --> 01:58:15.840
<v Speaker 15>Roman Catholics believe that he got everything right. They think

1938
01:58:15.880 --> 01:58:19.039
<v Speaker 15>he made all kinds of theological mistakes, which would mean

1939
01:58:19.039 --> 01:58:22.000
<v Speaker 15>that Roman Catholicism is false if that's the criteria, Because

1940
01:58:22.319 --> 01:58:26.960
<v Speaker 15>Augustine taught a pretty strict doctrine predestination that the Roman

1941
01:58:27.000 --> 01:58:29.760
<v Speaker 15>cally Church eventually doesn't adhere to. So if that's the case,

1942
01:58:29.840 --> 01:58:32.279
<v Speaker 15>then in the Roman Catholic system, he's also a heretic.

1943
01:58:32.720 --> 01:58:37.920
<v Speaker 15>But pretty much everybody has a degree of flexibility for

1944
01:58:38.800 --> 01:58:43.199
<v Speaker 15>saints in the church, because no saint got everything as

1945
01:58:43.199 --> 01:58:45.880
<v Speaker 15>an individual saint correct. Many of them got all kinds

1946
01:58:45.920 --> 01:58:48.039
<v Speaker 15>of things wrong. Many of them got the canon of

1947
01:58:48.039 --> 01:58:50.680
<v Speaker 15>scripture wrong, and that's an important thing. But it doesn't

1948
01:58:50.720 --> 01:58:53.159
<v Speaker 15>make them all heretics because they made a mistake. Making

1949
01:58:53.239 --> 01:58:56.600
<v Speaker 15>mistake is not the essence of a heresy. Obstinacy and

1950
01:58:56.680 --> 01:59:03.159
<v Speaker 15>pride is the essence of heresy. I forgot who the

1951
01:59:03.199 --> 01:59:05.680
<v Speaker 15>next guy was. Who's the next Protestant that wants to

1952
01:59:05.680 --> 01:59:13.439
<v Speaker 15>come on here? There's eighteen people and none of you

1953
01:59:13.479 --> 01:59:18.720
<v Speaker 15>are Protestant. I don't understand. It's Protestant debate day and

1954
01:59:18.760 --> 01:59:29.880
<v Speaker 15>there's okay, here we go. Thomas, Thomas the Lama.

1955
01:59:26.399 --> 01:59:27.079
<v Speaker 6>Hey, what's up?

1956
01:59:27.680 --> 01:59:32.760
<v Speaker 36>Just had a couple of questions, like about Eastern Orthodox relationships.

1957
01:59:32.800 --> 01:59:34.039
<v Speaker 6>I guess to the Reforms.

1958
01:59:35.479 --> 01:59:39.960
<v Speaker 36>Okay, so I guess for starters, the main condemnation of

1959
01:59:40.000 --> 01:59:42.840
<v Speaker 36>the Reformed would be their relationship to Roman Catholicism.

1960
01:59:42.880 --> 01:59:50.239
<v Speaker 15>Correct, the Orthodox condemnation of the Reformed would be the

1961
01:59:50.319 --> 01:59:52.680
<v Speaker 15>relation to Roman Catholicism. I don't know even know what

1962
01:59:52.680 --> 01:59:53.800
<v Speaker 15>that means, Like.

1963
01:59:54.119 --> 01:59:56.399
<v Speaker 6>I suppose I can qualify the question.

1964
01:59:56.720 --> 01:59:58.520
<v Speaker 36>So the Reformed are going to try to make some

1965
01:59:58.600 --> 02:00:05.439
<v Speaker 36>claim about their Apostolic succession, at least the High Reform right,

1966
02:00:05.840 --> 02:00:08.520
<v Speaker 36>and they're going to trace that through Roman Catholicism. They're

1967
02:00:08.520 --> 02:00:12.159
<v Speaker 36>not going to trace it through like either the East split.

1968
02:00:12.000 --> 02:00:14.199
<v Speaker 15>I've never heard of a Reform person who believes in

1969
02:00:14.199 --> 02:00:16.319
<v Speaker 15>apostolic succession, so I don't even know what that means.

1970
02:00:16.640 --> 02:00:19.119
<v Speaker 36>Oh interesting, all right, maybe this is some niche view,

1971
02:00:20.399 --> 02:00:21.359
<v Speaker 36>I guess the second question.

1972
02:00:21.520 --> 02:00:25.880
<v Speaker 15>I mean, maybe an Anglican Calvinist, High Church Anglican Calvinists

1973
02:00:25.880 --> 02:00:27.640
<v Speaker 15>would try to claim that's the only.

1974
02:00:27.640 --> 02:00:29.479
<v Speaker 36>I mean, yeah, yeah, I've heard that from High Church

1975
02:00:29.520 --> 02:00:31.840
<v Speaker 36>Anglicans through Reformed Anglicans even, but I've heard it from

1976
02:00:31.880 --> 02:00:34.279
<v Speaker 36>like OPC guys, right, Orthodox Presbyterians.

1977
02:00:34.600 --> 02:00:36.359
<v Speaker 15>No, I mean, well, I mean, if they want to

1978
02:00:36.399 --> 02:00:40.039
<v Speaker 15>redefine what the word appstock succession means, then that's what

1979
02:00:40.039 --> 02:00:43.840
<v Speaker 15>they're doing, because there's no Protestants who are classical Reformation

1980
02:00:43.920 --> 02:00:46.600
<v Speaker 15>Protestants that believe that there's a transmission of the gift

1981
02:00:46.600 --> 02:00:49.359
<v Speaker 15>of the Holy Spirit in the laying on of hands.

1982
02:00:50.279 --> 02:00:51.920
<v Speaker 36>Kind of in the same way that a Lutheran is

1983
02:00:51.920 --> 02:00:54.880
<v Speaker 36>going to argue for the historicity and apolasticity of the

1984
02:00:54.960 --> 02:00:55.600
<v Speaker 36>Lutheran Church.

1985
02:00:55.880 --> 02:00:58.600
<v Speaker 15>But that's not what I just said, right.

1986
02:00:58.479 --> 02:01:00.640
<v Speaker 6>No, I'm recognizing the distinction.

1987
02:01:01.319 --> 02:01:04.520
<v Speaker 15>Then it's not apostolic session. It's redefining the terms to

1988
02:01:04.640 --> 02:01:08.920
<v Speaker 15>make Protestantism and continuity with some made up traditions, just

1989
02:01:08.960 --> 02:01:12.239
<v Speaker 15>like they do the same thing with Niceno constant Politan

1990
02:01:12.279 --> 02:01:15.359
<v Speaker 15>cree where says one Holy Catholic Apostolic and they redefine

1991
02:01:15.359 --> 02:01:16.520
<v Speaker 15>that to men the invisible Church.

1992
02:01:16.920 --> 02:01:19.520
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I'll just can side that it's like redefining. No

1993
02:01:19.640 --> 02:01:20.199
<v Speaker 6>problem there.

1994
02:01:20.479 --> 02:01:24.840
<v Speaker 36>So the second question would be I've seen maybe I

1995
02:01:24.960 --> 02:01:27.920
<v Speaker 36>obviously need to read more about Eastern Orthodox resources on

1996
02:01:28.000 --> 02:01:30.319
<v Speaker 36>the sovereignty of God, but it seems to me that

1997
02:01:30.399 --> 02:01:34.479
<v Speaker 36>like certain historic views within the Eastern Orthodox can be

1998
02:01:34.600 --> 02:01:39.680
<v Speaker 36>consistent with like maybe four point or three point five,

1999
02:01:40.399 --> 02:01:42.199
<v Speaker 36>you know, tool of affirming Calvinists.

2000
02:01:42.279 --> 02:01:43.600
<v Speaker 6>Do you agree or disagree? No?

2001
02:01:45.159 --> 02:01:47.640
<v Speaker 36>Okay, which of the points? Like, do you flat out

2002
02:01:47.640 --> 02:01:51.960
<v Speaker 36>reject all of them? Fair enough? All right, I'm not

2003
02:01:51.960 --> 02:01:53.640
<v Speaker 36>gonna take up too much time. If you ever want

2004
02:01:53.640 --> 02:01:55.720
<v Speaker 36>to have like a formal debate, I d M.

2005
02:01:55.840 --> 02:01:57.239
<v Speaker 6>Do you? So? Thanks for the space?

2006
02:01:57.319 --> 02:01:58.279
<v Speaker 15>Well how about right now?

2007
02:01:59.159 --> 02:02:01.520
<v Speaker 36>No, I'm not good enough at this. I have other

2008
02:02:01.560 --> 02:02:03.760
<v Speaker 36>people that I can talk to here or link you with. Again,

2009
02:02:06.079 --> 02:02:07.119
<v Speaker 36>I mean, what their names?

2010
02:02:07.520 --> 02:02:10.039
<v Speaker 15>Is it? Somebody with an audience over a few hundred followers?

2011
02:02:11.119 --> 02:02:11.680
<v Speaker 5>Uh?

2012
02:02:11.760 --> 02:02:14.119
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, a couple of them. Jonathan Speaks would.

2013
02:02:13.920 --> 02:02:14.439
<v Speaker 32>Be one of them.

2014
02:02:14.720 --> 02:02:16.000
<v Speaker 15>And how big is his audience.

2015
02:02:16.840 --> 02:02:19.640
<v Speaker 36>I'd probably guess around five six hundred.

2016
02:02:21.479 --> 02:02:28.560
<v Speaker 15>Now, thanks, thanks for your time again. The Twitter spaces

2017
02:02:28.640 --> 02:02:31.840
<v Speaker 15>are for four or five hundred two three five thousand.

2018
02:02:32.479 --> 02:02:34.880
<v Speaker 15>I'm not doing any formal debates unless you have a

2019
02:02:34.960 --> 02:02:39.039
<v Speaker 15>large following. I didn't work my butt off debating one

2020
02:02:39.079 --> 02:02:43.600
<v Speaker 15>thousand goobers to debate all the top atheists and Muslims

2021
02:02:43.600 --> 02:02:46.079
<v Speaker 15>to spend all my time debating a bunch of five

2022
02:02:46.119 --> 02:02:49.239
<v Speaker 15>hundred follower people who want to chase clout and grow

2023
02:02:49.279 --> 02:02:52.840
<v Speaker 15>their audience. So that's why you get the Twitter space,

2024
02:02:52.920 --> 02:02:55.119
<v Speaker 15>and they don't come here because all they want is

2025
02:02:55.560 --> 02:02:56.399
<v Speaker 15>a big audience.

2026
02:02:57.720 --> 02:03:10.119
<v Speaker 17>Jud Are you there?

2027
02:03:10.319 --> 02:03:14.079
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I can hear you. It's real quiet. Can you

2028
02:03:14.079 --> 02:03:14.359
<v Speaker 6>hear me?

2029
02:03:14.560 --> 02:03:17.199
<v Speaker 15>Yeah?

2030
02:03:17.239 --> 02:03:19.840
<v Speaker 40>Hey, I don't know why your volume is super long

2031
02:03:19.840 --> 02:03:22.680
<v Speaker 40>on my phone, but I'm here, Okay.

2032
02:03:22.720 --> 02:03:25.560
<v Speaker 6>I had a question for you. So I'm a Protestant, I'm.

2033
02:03:25.439 --> 02:03:31.319
<v Speaker 40>An Evangelical and I've been inquiring into Orthodoxy and it's

2034
02:03:31.399 --> 02:03:32.640
<v Speaker 40>really fascinating stuff.

2035
02:03:32.880 --> 02:03:34.359
<v Speaker 6>I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

2036
02:03:34.600 --> 02:03:36.680
<v Speaker 40>The thing that I am having a hard time really

2037
02:03:36.760 --> 02:03:42.000
<v Speaker 40>understanding is your guys view on Christ's sacrifice and it

2038
02:03:42.039 --> 02:03:45.319
<v Speaker 40>comes to the shedding of blood and the old Testament

2039
02:03:45.439 --> 02:03:49.800
<v Speaker 40>sacrificial system. You know, that's really deeply ingrained and Protestant

2040
02:03:49.880 --> 02:03:50.680
<v Speaker 40>view of salvation.

2041
02:03:51.039 --> 02:03:53.880
<v Speaker 15>And literally, so what I'm gonna say is, I'm gonna

2042
02:03:54.840 --> 02:03:58.119
<v Speaker 15>what I'm gonna say is go watch the video Protestant

2043
02:03:58.119 --> 02:04:01.720
<v Speaker 15>Penal Substitution Jay Dyer. We've literally covered this probably five

2044
02:04:01.760 --> 02:04:05.039
<v Speaker 15>hundred times. It comes up in every open space. So

2045
02:04:05.199 --> 02:04:08.760
<v Speaker 15>if you look at my clips channel, you'll find multiple

2046
02:04:08.760 --> 02:04:14.680
<v Speaker 15>things on PSA. I try to be rude, I'm just like,

2047
02:04:15.600 --> 02:04:19.560
<v Speaker 15>I mean, it's like probably a thousand times we've responded

2048
02:04:19.560 --> 02:04:27.960
<v Speaker 15>to that. Go ahead, yep.

2049
02:04:29.239 --> 02:04:33.640
<v Speaker 41>Hey, so also Protestant here, very disgruntled Protestant.

2050
02:04:34.560 --> 02:04:36.279
<v Speaker 6>I would like to go East Orthodoxy.

2051
02:04:36.319 --> 02:04:41.439
<v Speaker 41>But my wife has voiced some concerns about y'all's mariology

2052
02:04:41.479 --> 02:04:46.279
<v Speaker 41>of Holy the Togos, and do y'all see her as

2053
02:04:46.840 --> 02:04:49.479
<v Speaker 41>totally sinless, like she has never sinned once.

2054
02:04:49.319 --> 02:04:50.039
<v Speaker 6>In her life?

2055
02:04:50.439 --> 02:04:54.880
<v Speaker 41>Or is that she is the most pure, most blessed,

2056
02:04:54.920 --> 02:04:57.159
<v Speaker 41>and and like I get all that part, but do

2057
02:04:57.199 --> 02:05:00.039
<v Speaker 41>y'all can make the contention that she's never sinned.

2058
02:05:00.079 --> 02:05:03.319
<v Speaker 15>Her, Yeah, she's a spatless virgin and God's grace preserved

2059
02:05:03.319 --> 02:05:04.000
<v Speaker 15>her from.

2060
02:05:03.840 --> 02:05:10.760
<v Speaker 41>Sinning, and so that would be a stumbling block for

2061
02:05:10.880 --> 02:05:14.319
<v Speaker 41>my wife is that she would not be comfortable saying

2062
02:05:14.439 --> 02:05:19.319
<v Speaker 41>that Mary only Tokos is sinless. She would say that

2063
02:05:19.359 --> 02:05:21.600
<v Speaker 41>she's not pure, if that's fine, but she would have

2064
02:05:21.640 --> 02:05:24.560
<v Speaker 41>the issue of making the jumpsy sinless.

2065
02:05:24.760 --> 02:05:26.640
<v Speaker 6>What do you what do you recommend?

2066
02:05:30.000 --> 02:05:31.560
<v Speaker 15>Just a little bit of a reminder. I'm going to

2067
02:05:31.600 --> 02:05:37.359
<v Speaker 15>be live at the Tampa Bay Screams Horror Convention. This

2068
02:05:37.520 --> 02:05:42.399
<v Speaker 15>is a decent sized convention with a rowdy troop of

2069
02:05:42.560 --> 02:05:46.560
<v Speaker 15>rascally b movie actors and others who will be there

2070
02:05:46.640 --> 02:05:49.840
<v Speaker 15>as well. I will be giving a lecture that evening,

2071
02:05:50.000 --> 02:05:52.479
<v Speaker 15>a dinner lecture that is separate from the convention, but

2072
02:05:52.520 --> 02:05:55.640
<v Speaker 15>we will also be at the convention and I will

2073
02:05:55.680 --> 02:06:00.520
<v Speaker 15>be presenting the Dark Secrets of Horror Films present. So

2074
02:06:00.840 --> 02:06:03.600
<v Speaker 15>join me tonight that night, excuse me, January nineteenth, in

2075
02:06:03.680 --> 02:06:08.039
<v Speaker 15>Tampa Bay. Get your tickets below this audio. In the

2076
02:06:08.039 --> 02:06:10.279
<v Speaker 15>show description, you'll see the links to head and over

2077
02:06:10.359 --> 02:06:12.800
<v Speaker 15>to the checkout. And it's going to be a lot

2078
02:06:12.840 --> 02:06:15.479
<v Speaker 15>of fun. The first thirty people, I think it's almost full,

2079
02:06:16.279 --> 02:06:21.920
<v Speaker 15>already have their free copy of Esoteric Hollywood reserved for them,

2080
02:06:22.199 --> 02:06:24.680
<v Speaker 15>and of course they'll be signed copies and other things

2081
02:06:24.720 --> 02:06:27.479
<v Speaker 15>like that as well as the other books. So get

2082
02:06:27.479 --> 02:06:32.239
<v Speaker 15>your tickets now. January nineteenth, that's eleven days the Tampa

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<v Speaker 15>Bay Screams Horror Convention