Speaker 1: Ah, I got married to a fuck pop whoa, we
got ready, come joint in the subway shop for.
Speaker 2: I'm married to uncle Pap.
Speaker 3: Whoa by imaging man Rosie.
Speaker 4: Come to me through to hoo like the stick patch
on the duke.
Speaker 5: Whoa, whoa open.
Speaker 3: Ready joint to see the subway shop over. We got
ready for the s sway shop for.
Speaker 6: M h.
Speaker 7: Oh, I'm married to a phone.
Speaker 8: Go pop.
Speaker 2: We got ready.
Speaker 7: We got joined in a subway shop. Right, there's a
man no roads. They come to me through the two
night I missen man rods. They come to me through
this Heatoo bunco.
Speaker 8: Phone.
Speaker 4: Whoa bunk.
Speaker 6: Bunk?
Speaker 4: Oh, whoa, I got married. I got married to my phone,
Go papo.
Speaker 6: We got ready.
Speaker 4: We got joined in a subway shop.
Speaker 5: Will go phone call love, phone call love, I.
Speaker 2: May be to my phone. Do we got wedded, Come
join in a subway shop.
Speaker 4: Oh who, I'm lippy.
Speaker 5: Married to a funk.
Speaker 9: Go bo.
Speaker 2: We got joined according to the subway shop Boo.
Speaker 5: A minute and biscuits.
Speaker 2: Some minerals to come and be do it to the
holy man watching on the two.
Speaker 10: Whoa, oh, I'm mab me too my phono.
Speaker 11: We got readed we got joined in the subway shopping boy,
the mats and minerals.
Speaker 2: I come to middle of it too, the man in minerals.
They're coming into this year too.
Speaker 4: Whoo ohone, I got married.
Speaker 2: I got married to.
Speaker 12: My funk go Bob.
Speaker 2: We got wedded. We got joined in the subway shop.
Speaker 13: Until the monkey you find off in that tree?
Speaker 2: What you doing up there?
Speaker 6: Why you stand?
Speaker 5: Why you run it from the red bad you ran
from then trew and from me.
Speaker 13: Until the monkeys like their female monkeys with them Bananna's
between the trees hanging down upside down.
Speaker 5: That's a smile.
Speaker 13: Side And tell the monkey.
Speaker 6: What you doing to me?
Speaker 2: Till until a monkey, till the.
Speaker 14: Mackyn till the mody.
Speaker 6: What's it doing it to me?
Speaker 4: Till a tiller?
Speaker 8: Mom Moday.
Speaker 5: Till mom fucking Jamie? Could you make me?
Speaker 6: I express?
Speaker 5: So okay, we're gonna open it up.
Speaker 15: Let's keep it.
Speaker 5: One plus one plus one equal three.
Speaker 11: Icons are Adala tree, j J but Jay can I talk?
Speaker 15: But it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Next, Cathodra, God is real wife? Does he allow evil?
Speaker 5: Why do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men?
It's a no brainer.
Speaker 2: You're such a tyrannical rainer.
Speaker 13: Is this your first time on the web changer, Joe?
Speaker 2: Can't take these loads your slow boys?
Speaker 4: Is this your first time on the shame changer?
Speaker 5: Joe?
Speaker 2: Was that a creator foot part?
Speaker 15: M dude?
Speaker 6: Stop repeating my name?
Speaker 15: Dude?
Speaker 9: You goober's callin or I'll boot you.
Speaker 2: Where did we get the Bible from? Have you read
the Canons of Franzia?
Speaker 16: What are you Catholic?
Speaker 15: Are you promisonans?
Speaker 11: I'm not trying to be me, but do you have
an actual argument?
Speaker 2: There is only one church?
Speaker 5: You are in a cult, You're.
Speaker 2: A goblin, a demon, a boomer?
Speaker 17: Quick question?
Speaker 11: Do we have any diddyback venerators in the chat?
Speaker 2: Is this your first time on.
Speaker 5: Chan't take these loads here? Slow boys? Are you?
Speaker 8: Is this your first time on bean where?
Speaker 13: If you're a wine in front.
Speaker 8: Of the line, I'm mute, dude, what.
Speaker 6: Is yours stemic justification?
Speaker 2: That argument is circular and you are refuted?
Speaker 6: Is this your first.
Speaker 5: Time on the wereh?
Speaker 15: I needed you? Oh? What better song to kick it
off with when debating Protestants than nineteen ninety three electronic
and dance music straight from the dance hall Twitter. I
want to see you up.
Speaker 18: There's only one thing they can bring them a together
that begins with you.
Speaker 15: But where it begins with you, not you. I'm gonna
tell you what word is Usury.
Speaker 18: On the dance floor.
Speaker 15: Baker. Shut that app up, fakery on the part of
flour baker.
Speaker 19: Make the people super poor or rep middle class bakers.
Speaker 20: Shake that ass all right, welcome everybody.
Speaker 15: I wanted to play that song last time, but I
didn't get to it. I got coffee in my mouth.
I make my coffee so strong that the coffee grounds
are drowning in it, being like, get me out of here.
This coffee is too strong. I'm a coffee ground and
it's too strong. Shout out to my girls, the Dark
Triad right there. Jamie bought me a Golden Girl's cup.
I don't know why. I just she just thought it
was funny. I think because there was an inside joke
many years ago on a debate with an atheist where
I said if the atheist debeated defeated me, I would
give him an autograph golden Girls shirt, and they didn't
think I actually had one, but I had one. The autograph, though,
was not from be Arthur or any of the Golden Girls.
It was me a Golden Girls shirt. So let that
blow your mind for a moment. All right, what's up?
Welcome everybody. We got a nice little warm balmy chat today,
a bunch of chad nerds in the audience. Now, this week,
I don't know what happened. I'm guessing it's because people
are leaving Protestantism. I mean, that's my guess. I don't
know why this screen doesn't.
Speaker 17: Want to work.
Speaker 15: The Protestants got all feisty this week. The Calvinists got
all feisty on Twitter. They were just they were just sasty.
They got a little bit of a sass in their
walk this week, more than normal. And there's several things
going on in the evangelical Protestant world. One of those
things is the idea of recovering lost masculinity. Lost masculinity,
How do we get more masculine? Bro, We got to
compete with the Muslims, supposedly, and they're having kids and
they're doing their thing. They're crazy cult things. So we
got to get more masculine, and so they come up
with these conferences. I guess Christ is king.
Speaker 3: WHOA.
Speaker 15: Now I made a joke and my joke was intended
to prod and goad them a bit to get somebody
to come to debate. But I should have realized that
it's the same with the Roman Catholics. If you make
a joke like this and you try to prod them,
they turn that into a piety signaling thing to where
you're not worth talking to because you made this joke.
Now they can spend all week blasting Orthodoxy as idolators, traders,
anti American, literally, on and on and on, Russian KGB
agents and the slightest pushback joke back, Oh oh, look
how un.
Speaker 19: Christ like he is. This man is on christ Like.
He's not like John MacArthur. John MacArthur calls up people
who like Trump and say cush words. Trump said the
P word, and we're not holy, we are holier than vowel. Now,
I said, these are a bunch of pasty tubby I
pa men referring back to my ip A video a
year or six months ago, and I stand my mamat desist.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 15: I don't know or in McIntyre people say, oh, he's
a cool dude from Glenn Beeck's show. That's entirely possible.
It's entirely possible. All of these dudes are cool dudes.
I don't even know who they are. I did recognize
later on that, oh that's Calvin Robinson without an afro,
so I didn't even realize that was him. I just
thought that was like a like an arcle, like a
nerdy black dude up in there, just being an earth.
Speaker 21: A theological article Laura.
Speaker 15: Toment something like that. But I'm just kidding. Oh, he
went too far with that one. He went too far
with that one.
Speaker 22: Bro.
Speaker 15: Now again, Now this dude on the end over here,
he looks like he was cut from the village people
with that big old mustache and weird tubby. Look. The
next dude we had multiple dms. I thought he was
gonna come to bait multiple times. I will take you
up all that, sir. The next guy over trying to
have an orthodox beard, but the high top fade. I
don't know if y' all know that's out of style
like five years ago. But what can we expect from Calvinists.
Maybe these aren't all Calvinists. I don't even know. And
why are they end up giant polo trash? I'm confused.
Is that supposed to signify the spiritual track. I don't
know what this means. Now, Wait, are these not the
same dudes? Underneath those dudes? So we got the varsity
team and then the backup Calvinists. Is that what that is?
I'm joking. I don't even know. It's just to me,
it's funny just say that they're all like pasty tubby Calvinists,
when one, two, three, four of them are tubby and
pasty and the other ones are not. Anyway, I can
smell the beard oil coming off of this infographic here.
But I don't have a lot of respect for Calvinists.
I used to be a Calvinist many years ago, and
I know that world as well. I haven't been in
that world in many, many years, so I don't really
think much about it. But I just thought it was
funny that multiple Protestants Calvinists this week just chiming in
on how bad Orthodox he is, how bad we are,
idolators the worst. And then I put up one comment
and it's, oh, oh my gosh.
Speaker 23: Look at the way this man speaks. Look at the
way this man speaks. He does not have the spirit
of Christ. There's no way he could speak in such ways.
Worry you ain't true regenerate born again Christian, but speaking
in such ways proves he's not Christian? Or were you
predestined to have man boobs? Were you predestined.
Speaker 15: To have tubby flannel man boob ipa aesthetics and drip?
The only thing dripping on your drip is the sweat
because y'all has a bunch of tubbies, a bunch of teletubbies,
a bunch of five point tulip Calvinist teletubbies on the entranets. Anyway,
this is the next generation of like the Doug Wilson's
who also is a giant tubby man. Seeing how they're
all tubby? Do Protestants not know how to eat?
Speaker 6: Do they?
Speaker 15: I don't understand. They don't go to the gym, They
don't understand, Like what it's it's not hard to not
be tubby, especially in the days of the Internet, where
we can figure out how to eat. I can understand
twenty years ago we didn't know about diets, that we
didn't know about high fromptose, current storp and all this junk.
But anyway, yes, I'm making jokes. I think these people
are kind of worthy of making jokes. Now again, now
this we Bon guy, Webo whatever is Joel Webo. I
thought that was like a Japanese dude that married his
pillow a Webo or something. Joel Webo we Bon. He
was the loudest of these guys, and he said that
Protestantism is true because of patriotism in the West and
all that kind of stuff, which are really is some
of the stupidest arguments imaginable, because how does the West?
What does that even mean? The West was Roman Catholic
prior to being Protestant, so is the West Roman Catholic?
I mean, this is so stupid, right, like, what are
you talking about? Well, these guys really treat the Founding
Fathers as they're Church fathers. That's how Protestant Presonism operates
in theory. And that's why I thought this was a funny.
I wish that Grock had done a better picture. Where's
my grog picture of the found Yeah, here we go.
This is the Founding Fathers with the magical powdered wig
powder drafting the inerrant inspired Constitution. Do you see that?
And if you notice, if you look at if you
zoom in real close, if you were to pat those wigs,
you would get some of that magical powdered wig dust.
That's the source of how those documents were inspired. And
that's why Saint Benjamin Franklin, who happened to be a
Atanist and a member of the Health Fire Club, still
a Protestant founding church father and Saint I'm joking, by
the way, I'm just trying to prod the Protestants to
get it. I'm prodding the Protestants. Not in a gayway, though,
although these guys might like that. I don't sell. All
these guys look look like they might be on the
other team, battan on the other team. I don't know.
I don't know. Now. I understand wes Houff is not
going to do a debate, but I did want it
out there that I would love to debate wes Hoff.
I would happy, be happy to debate any of these
Protestant pastors. I have zero fear of any of these people. Now,
one psycho Protestant guy who did a debate recently, who
has literally like a few thousand followers he wants to debate.
I don't want to debate that guy because he's literally
just a psycho. I tried to get him to debate
years ago, he wouldn't do it. Now he wants to
debate because he's trying to build clout. So not every
person I don't debate is because of some sort of
fear or something like that. I didn't even extend an
offer to that guy. Recently, I'm talking about all of
these Protestants over here. I mean, I don't even know
what it meant. Like there was a dude literally saying
that if you are against Protestantism, you're anti white and
you're a communist, just like the most wow, stupid thing
I've ever heard, Like, what the hell are you talking about?
And then the other people are saying that, oh, I'm
not actually going to debate into these people. I'm just
putting out challenges. I'm like, what the heck are you
talking about? Dude. It's like, I mean, I'm not trying
to be arrogant, but I've been debating people publicly since
twenty seventeen, so that's nine years of public debates with
countless public figures, countless atheists and Muslims, and these people
act like I'm just some rando that's never debated anybody.
It's like it's kind of unbelievable. Really. Now, when it
comes to James White or any of these people, there's
a pattern of they make miss they make statements that
they will not debate me, and they have a list
in litany of reasons as to why. First of all,
White has said for years he doesn't have time to
study orthodoxy, he's not interested in that debate. Also on
me personally, my channel is too weird and there's too
many geopolitical conspiracy topics. I don't know what that would
have to do with whether you would debate or not.
But to me, those are all just excuses, and they're
really no different than the other excuses that the Roman
Catholics have used. Which is now, notice this is a
pattern of what people do. Then we're gonna open up
just a second. But I want to keep calling attention
to this because I've seen so many people do this,
and it's so transparent. Once you see it, they throw
out all kinds of attacks, prods, jokes, ribbing. The minute
you respond, there's suddenly a victim. You should have never
responded to them because they're a small profile with no attention.
Why are you bullying me? Why are you even responding
to me? How dare you reply to my attacks? You're
so mean and it's so you're so irreverent and on
christ like. When they literally said like the worst stuff imaginable,
that to me is the most slimy behavior ever. Now,
one of these guys, this easily guy who is over
here literally every day tweeting about Orthodoxy for the last
few weeks, he says, Oh, yeah, let's have a chat.
I'd love to come on and we can have a conversation,
not a debate. I told him politely in the DMS, Hey,
I'm happy to do that. We don't have to have
a debate. You're always walking to have a conversation if
that's what you'd like. Well, today he comes back and says, oh,
I saw some clips of you on the internet and
you called a guy a name three years ago. Maybe
the guy who called in deserved to be called a name. No,
but you called the guy a name. Therefore you're not
christ Like. I'm not going to interact with you. This
is why you goobers have a crisis of masculinity. Is effeminate,
and you're passive aggressive, and anytime somebody calls you out
on a week plus of going after us to step
up to the plate and defend your positions, and then
you cower hiding behind the fact that I once said
a quote mean thing three years ago. That's your crisis
of masculinity, is that you're a coward. You're a giant VAJAYJ.
I'm the only giant VJJ that's allowed to be on here. Okay,
are we clear now, I'm just being silly. I'm having fun. Relax,
chill up. But look, we had a PhD guy the
other day this He says, I'm a Calvinist from Bulgaria
and I know the truth of orthodoxy, and I would
never debate you accepting written form written for him. Are
you joking? This is not two thousand and seven, Not
on Zanga, dude, We're not on word Press. Is twenty
twenty four. Ward Dollar people have YouTube debates and video
It's like, what are you talking about? A written debate? Like,
I'm gonna sit there. And by the way, some multiple people,
including FDA and others were calling that out. He just
wants a written debate so he can rely on grock
and chat GPT. You can't get away with that in
a actual classical formal debate. But it's a trick, and
people are figuring that out. You got people saying, I'm
a length, I'm a scholar, I'm an expert in these
fields when they're like twenty and they don't have a
college degree and they're literally going and putting everything into
chat GPT. And then this other guy maybe he maybe
maybe he is a PhD. Now, if you're a PhD,
wouldn't it be easy for you to come and demolish me?
Speaker 18: I mean, that's due, said this bud News commudian. Well
it could crush him and do sick good to debate.
Oh Bulgarrial Gulvinus. There's five of us and all the Bulgiria.
It's the true church. Clearly, Uh no, won't come. Now,
we got this other dude right here. Look at this guy.
Speaker 15: He just wants to call us names. No wonder, we
don't want to debate him. Sola Chad. Now, if you're
a chad man, he's this is more more than more
like a fed profile. He puts a dang ai gun
and a Bible, but he won't come to bate. He's
over here posting r C Sproler. He's over there sipping
on r C Sproler, getting drunk. The rc sprol is
like the He's like the Colombo of Calvinism. No, what
why was that again?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 24: Did you say told again? Run that back for me,
because I'm rc Sproller. Take a take a drink on
my drip, get drunk on by Calvinism.
Speaker 15: Did these Calvinists won't last ten minutes in a debate.
I guarantee you I know inside and out Calvinism. So
I hope that you guys will step up. It's open
for him. I'm a comedy. I'm a clown, dude. I
even put in my profile clown. Look at that right there,
writer for Sam Hide Show. Comedian Officially, now I can
officially call it. I appropriated that title in deception because
I didn't actually have any proof that I was a
comedian except for being on The Tucker Show for ten
minutes being a quote comedian. So the joke was that
I called myself a comedian, but I didn't really have
any proof of that.
Speaker 12: But in today's world, you can just call yourself whatever
you want. You can manifest it. So I manifested myself
as a comedian. Then Sam Hide hired me, So let
that blow your mind. That's proof of manifestation, dog, how
do you prove manifestation? I got the one ring. Look
at that, that's Frodo's one ring right there. The one
ring doesn't just make you invisible, it also manifests your dreams.
I manifested this, so.
Speaker 15: Now I actually do have cred. Now why do I
say all that? Because if I'm an idiot comedian man,
it should be nothing for any of these smart boomer
theology men and gen X's theology man. They should be
able to just pop on here and demolish me in
two seconds, make me look stupid, eh, wouldn't it be? Yeah,
name it claiming. That's what I'm talking about. I was
following Kenneth Copeland when y'all were still in your diapers.
Why do y'all still in diapers? Especially these tubby oap
men over here, This Joe Webon over at Webo married
to his nip on pillow or whatever the heck that
means over there in a dang diaper. I'm just kidding.
Think an need of these people want a debate? Yeah,
I read Paul Kalo. I figured out this is the secret.
I got the one ring. I manifested my dreams. Bro,
I manifest, I said, Sam Hyde is gonna want me
as a comedy man dreams manifested right there? Look at that.
How is Calvinism true if I manifested all that? Anyway,
I'm being silly. I can't help it.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 15: But by the way, I do have a pretty intense
dislike for Calvinism, and I can say that as a
person who was a Calvinist. I was at bonson seminary.
So today we're going to open it up. Hopefully we
get some some Protestants and some Calvinists over here. You know,
as I think back over the last several years, we've
had a lot of Roman Catholic debates. Well, where's all
the Protestants. Let's see, who was the last Protestant I
remember debating? Was Dale the Protestant together with doctor bow Brands.
Remember that debate? Dale got so mad that he's still
attacking Orthodoxy all the time. No, no, I can't. Well, right
around that time, I take that back, was the Redeem
Zoomer debate. But the Redeemed Zoomer debate broke. Redeem Zoomer
literally broke that dude. He has been angry tweeting about
Orthodoxy ever since, and he actually said I'm quitting. Too
many people are converting Orthodoxy. Now look, I just am
about to post that on Twitter. By the way, that
Redeem Zoomer debates about to go up, because every time
you do a debate with a Calvinist, it's just like
the Protestants, I mean the Muslims.
Speaker 17: Same thing.
Speaker 15: Protestants, Muslims, same thing.
Speaker 21: When you do a debate with them, they're like, well,
you didn't debate the real Calvinist. You debated this young
man who's basically a child on the untrodout. He's only
tw he loved or whatever he is.
Speaker 15: Yes, I know there's always the hidden e mom of
the Calvinist that's out there that you haven't yet debated
because you're running from the hidden mom. Nobody knows who
the hidden mom is, but you're running from him because
you won't debate the real Muslim scholar, just like you
won't debate the real Protestant scholar. All right anyway, and
not being silly, Oh yeah, Pastor P. Pastor P was
like a year ago though, But I guess it's all
coming up till about a year where Redeem Zuomer and
who's the other Protestant I forget his name anyway, I
don't remember who the other Protestants were. But look, we're
about to get busy. It's about to open up, right,
It's about to open up and get busy. Jamie's not here.
So I got a giant jug. I got a sipping
jug of coffee, so nobody can stop me. You will
not make me angry. I will continue to operate in
love because I have my ginger chewes, which will keep
my the demon, the beat us demon down. There will
not be diabet us anger, and that demon will not
possess me. So all of y'all can't copy and paste
from Sam Shimun and say that I'm manifesting my demons
or whatever. How are you going to do that? I
got the sacrament of gender Jews right here. Also got
to back up the bananas. But that is not for debating.
That's for calling in Matt delahunkey, Dela monkey. When I
when I'm starting to lose and I gotta rely on
a uh seasoned rage quitter, I'll call up on the.
Speaker 25: Banana phone, Matt Dola monkey, Matt Dela monkey. You climbed
up in that tree? What you're doing up there? Are
you scared. Why are you running from every deep bay?
Speaker 6: Hey?
Speaker 15: You ran from and and from me, So don't piss
me off. I'll get on that banana phone.
Speaker 25: And by the way, that banana phone has your mom's
number on speed dial.
Speaker 15: That's the zigger. Laugh, don't be racist. This phone, this
phone right here calls directly to Matt Dela monkey, your mom,
and Mohammed. Hey, jab, there was a there was a
Calvinist saying that I'm I'm the orthodox Mohammed a job
because I don't really debate anybody. I just throw out
the debate me excuse okay, dude, yeah sure, even though
that's totally backwards. As a reminder, Mohammed h a job
when I asked him to debate after this, take them back.
This is right before, no, this is after no, this
is right before I forget when okay, three to five
million views on our debate. But you are not popular enough,
mister DIYer.
Speaker 23: As you can see for my Twitter, four people challenge
me to debate my team his team.
Speaker 15: Does he actually have a team or is that like
Sneako and two other goobers our team review. You do
not generate numbers. You only have a four hundred thousand
views on Big Video. I am not closing door. Figure out.
I wait to become more popular. So he mean, girl me,
I'm not allowed at the popular table. Even though even
though our debate was originally the biggest debate of last year.
I would say maybe because of the Joe Rogan thing,
that the Wes Huff Billy Corson debate has surpassed it,
because now everybody's talked about that debate. But it's the
second biggest debate of last year. But now I'm not
popular enough, even though we just had twenty million impressions
on last Friday's Alex Jones show. Now, don't make the cut, dude,
don't make the cut. Now. I know mohammedhed Job knows
about being suppressed in shadow band too, which my channel
was demonetized in twenty eighteen, so that might have something
to do with it too, But no, no, that doesn't
exist in my case. You see. Anyway, Mohammed had Job
knows way better. He knows better than to pick one
of his goobers to debate with me and Sam because
that would go nowhere. So of course he's not gonna
do that, and we knew he wouldn't do it, but
it's time to open it up. If you want to
support the stream via super chest, thank you to the
people who've already super chatted. You can do that right here.
I'm hoping to get Protestants. If we don't get Protestants,
that's okay. We'll open it up to whoever wants to
come on. We've already got about six people in line.
And uh, there's the link to call in. And then wait, no,
that's the link to super chat here, and that's penned
and here's the link to call in. You call in
via Twitter spaces. Now, I've already had a pretty a
serious amount of coffee today, so I'm already getting at
a little too overheated. I better calm down with some
of this Dila monkey. I got a diala Monkey snack
right here. Eighth the a snack data bought seven seven seven.
One wants to debate and he's a low tier Protestant.
Well ooh, okay, I guess. But you know something I
found is that I would say ninety percent of the
time when I have okay, he's unblocked. When I when
I blocked people, I was right. There's about two percent
of the cases where maybe I got it wrong, and
then in a few instances somebody comes back three four
years later and says, hey, I was an idiot, you
were wrong. Will you unblock me. I've had I've had
that happen probably five ten times. So maybe I got
it wrong. But most of the time, if I if
I banned you, I was in the right because you
were dumb, you said dumb stuff, and I have a
very uh quick block mute block mute, black mute. So
that's how we roll around here anyway. All right, topics
are we're gonna open up right now. I'm gonna quit yapping,
shut up, yapping, dire, shut up. Priority topics are Protestantism, Calvinism, Evangelicalism,
church history, soul, scripture of Bible, et cetera. Second tier
priority today Roman Catholicism, papacy, et cetera. And then third
tier all the rest of the stuff Muslims, Atheists, Hebrew roots, Judaism,
blah blah blah. By the way, you see that there
was a Hebrew roots Bhi dude that came into the
last or maybe two debates back. I forget his name,
Genesis something good pastor Genesis Anyway, it turns out that
I was insane because he did a stream that when
the Kingdom of the Black Hebewer Israelites come, he's making
me his special slave and I'm gonna get a electroshock
collar and he's going to whip me so many times
that my skin will be flayed off of my back.
This is what he says in his life stream. I
didn't realize they're that insane. I thought they just had
this weird sect. They actually think they're going to like
go to war and enslave all the white people. Either
that or he's a fed. So this guy's insane. I
forget his name, but he's one of these Bhi dudes.
And but I mean, you're talking about people who believe
that the word a Jewish means that they're kind of Jewish.
Speaker 25: Well when that jew but we're kind the Jewish and
hence the term Jewish.
Speaker 15: You see, they actually believe that that's what that word means.
Like these are people who can't do grammar, but their prophets,
Like they don't know third grade grammar, but they have
the gift of prophecy. I'm not joking, Like that's literally
what these people believe. So I think with like, you
can't debate those kinds of people, Like if a person
can't function like they're this is a new dude though.
Right he's a Jewish guy debating a black heuber Israelite.
That would be a funny. I could do like both
sides of that debate, and that would be that would
be fire, dude. All right, let's open it up. Priority
goes to the Prats today. Shout out to my Protestant
brothers and sisters, psychros sisters. All right, we got Jacob Now,
I've been seeing him tweeting over here. What's Jacob got
on his mind? Shout out to yaku.
Speaker 6: Hey, what's up, Jake?
Speaker 15: Who would win in a debate between an Orthodox Jewish
rabbi and Yakoub?
Speaker 6: Depends on the day.
Speaker 15: I think I got like if it was the Sabbath
and he couldn't debate exactly? Okay, what's on your mind? Dog?
Speaker 6: So actually not really here to debate. I'm actually I
have a great.
Speaker 26: Interest in Orthodoxy, but I was raised Protestant and so
figured out to ask you a couple questions. First, one
is when it comes to veneration, which is something that's
super foreign to Protestants. This this idea of latria versus Julia,
honor and worship I pulled up in Revelation. Let's see
sixteen verse two, the word worship, I'm gonna try to
pronounce it proscanello, right, So Proscanillo here. I'm curious as
I'm looking through all of the different links to Proscanillo
all throughout the Old and New Testament. There's two use cases,
and the first proper as of God, Christ and super
mundane beings, and I see all of these having to
do with worship that is only unto God. And the
second one, it seems, you know, it says of homage
to human superiors. So I can see kind of a
delineation there. But when I click on some of these
second case usages for paying homage to human superiors x
ten point fifteen x ten twenty five. When Peter entered,
Cornelius met him and fell down as if he'd worshiped him,
but Peter lifted him up, saying, stand up.
Speaker 6: I to him man.
Speaker 15: So it's not so a lot of times what Protestants do,
and I'm not faulting you for this, is that they
will look up in a Greek dictionary or a lexicon
the usage of that term, and then assign a single
sense to that term. So we could say that I revere,
I honor, I give homage, I venerate like all of
those terms could mean different things. So do I honor God? Yes? Okay,
honor your father mother? Do you honor God the father? Sure?
Do I honor them with the same honor? No? So
the terms are not the things that are going to
tell you the theological meanings. And this is what a
lot of times Protestants get backwards. And that's why, for example,
Joseph he bows before Pharaoh, right, Elisha bows before Elijah.
Joshua bows before the arc of the covenant in Joshua seven.
So the action itself, the bodily action, is not itself
the essence of what constitutes latria or dulia. It's what's
in the mind and the heart. And that's why Jesus
says that idolatry and other things proceed from the heart
of man, not just from what goes into the mouth
or by extension, is not just bodily actions. So when
there's a bowing before the angels, and the angels say,
do not worship me, I am another creature like you,
that's signifying the point that you do not give the
same honor to created things that you do to the
uncreated allah of God. So it's really not determined by
specific Greek words. The Latin Church developed that distinction, particularly
if you read something like Saint Jerome's essay against Helvigius,
which is, if I recall that's the one about relics,
and he points out that the honor that we give
to the relics is like the honor that you would
give to father and mother, or to anyone else that
deserves authority, but they deserve more honor because they're above
even earthly authorities. And so if it's proper in the
ancient medieval world to bow before a king or a magistrate,
how much more proper is it to bow before you know,
the kings and magistrates of God's kingdom, the saints.
Speaker 26: So would you say, essentially, it does come down to
the heart of a person, and it's individualized case by case.
That's really really not distinguishable for most people externally, Like
would you agree with well.
Speaker 15: I would say that in many cases, you know, say
we're where we go to some pagan region and everybody's
bowing down to an idol. It would be the case
that most likely pretty much everybody there that's bowing down
is committing idolatry, because in their hearts they do conceive
of that idol as having mystical power or being divine,
or animism or polytheism or something like that. So yeah,
in certain cases, the majority of the body actions would
be idolatry, but it can't be in all cases, because
it's not idolatrous for Joshua and all the elders of
Israel to bow down before the arc and prostration. If
the essence of idolatry is the bodily action.
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, it makes sense too, and it's cool to see.
Speaker 26: I think it's later in Revelation the verse where God
actually says that he will command those to bow down
at the feet of those he loves, all right, So
it's a cool distinction, So I appreciate that.
Speaker 15: And then yeah, I highly reckoon men. By the way,
though Jerome's essay. Have you read that? No, it's not
very very long. I highly recommend It'll give you a
good four fifth century insight into what the church in
Saint Jerome's day thought about these things. Is I'm pretty
sure it's against televidios. I could look it up, but
it might be against vigilantius. There's two one is against
one is about the perpetual virginity, and then the other
one is about relics.
Speaker 6: So okay cool.
Speaker 26: And then to tap into that, because it flows perfectly
is with generation and with especially specifically veneration of theotokos
being at this elevated even elevated higher about the saints.
Speaker 6: One of my main trip ups right now, because like
I said.
Speaker 26: I'm very well thinking about becoming a catechumen soon and
one of the biggest things that's kind of I'm ulling
over my mind is the generation of theotokos because that man,
some of the things I'm reading in the liturgies these
liturgy books are like wow. And when I'm reading Saint
Clement Ignacious justin Martyr. You know, these very first first
guys in the one hundreds, none of them mentioned theotokos,
I think, like at all.
Speaker 6: So I just had like this.
Speaker 26: It's so exparagement where I'm like, yeah, what's what's going
on there?
Speaker 15: So nobody uh So, there's countless things that even Protestants
believe that the first second century church fathers, even third
centery church fathers don't mention. For example, there's no first second,
third century church father that lists the entire Protestant Canon
of Scripture. So the idea that there's there's this expectation
of every controversy or every theological issue having some explicit
written reference is kind of impossible, unworkable, and it's a
kind of a double standard. Theotokos is not used specifically
until Saint Cyril and the Council of Ephesus. It's a
term that he uses to encapsulate the role that she
has as the one that gave birth according to his
human nature to the divine person, the logos. So it
takes on a specific theological precision at Ephesus in four
thirty one, And so we wouldn't expect that that term
would have a priority before it became a theological dispute.
A lot of things in church history don't get precisely
quote defined until there's a dispute about it. So we
might reason that there was no dispute about the theotokos
until the reason there wasn't a bunch of writing about
it was that is not really disputed yet. But For example,
in one pint eighty you begin to see massive disputes
about the liturgical calendar right with the cortadesseminarians. So that
tells us that there was already a liturgical calendar in
the mid second century, right, which is contra Protestanism. So
point being that there's not. It's unrealistic to expect, and
no Protestant actually holds up for their position either that
there's some written record of every theological problem or issue
in the first and second century. I mean, some of
those first second century church fathers, unless they are speaking alligorically,
also made theological mistakes, like if they if they're teaching premillennialism,
so what right.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, And then just kind
of a much smaller question.
Speaker 26: But even like when when reading about Justice justin Martyr,
he does seem to have an emphasis on teaching and
reading of the Word, and you know, in the weekly gatherings,
which it seems like divine liturgy as I've briefly known.
Speaker 6: It does not seem to have the same emphasis.
Speaker 26: Would you just say, you know, well, now we just
break it up into different parts of our weeks, and
or maybe it was it was just historical context.
Speaker 15: Well, it's up to you hold on so that. I
don't think that's true at all. It's to you to
whether you choose to follow the daily readings or not.
And then at the liturgy itself, maybe you didn't hear
or weren't paying attention. But everything that's sung is scripture.
So I'm not trying to be rude, but did you
not pay attention? Like the movable psalms that come in
and out are based on where we are in the
liturgical season, and all of that is scripture. And if
you read the Orthodox Study Bible, you're going to notice
that as you read through, for example, the Book of Psalms,
tons and tons and tons of these psalms are chanted
throughout the various liturgical celebrations Epiphany, right, Christmas, Nativity, like,
tons of these psalms are sung throughout this, So the
entire thing is singing scripture. So I don't know where
you're getting at.
Speaker 26: Yeah, yeah, well, I guess maybe it just comes down
to homily, the homily itself, like somebody in authority, the priest,
walking through the applications of scripture, things like that.
Speaker 6: But yeah, you're right as far as.
Speaker 15: Well, But every service includes a reading from the epistles
and a reading of the Gospels, and then there's every
now and then you'll find based on certain situations the
priest doesn't do it homily, but they usually do so.
For example, this last Sunday, we had a pretty lengthy
homily on love and the Gospel, so out of the Gospel.
So I don't I don't know what you mean, Okay, cool,
I'm not trying to be rude. I just like I
don't understand the like the idea that maybe you mean
that they don't do like Protestant exegetical Bible studies. Is
that what you're friends here?
Speaker 26: Yeah, yeah, I mean exactly, just just coming from a
Protestant perspective in the background, there's such an emphasis on,
right that that forty five minutes long homily, right compared
to these past few weeks. Yeah, like you said, five
to ten minutes, fifteen minutes maybe tops.
Speaker 6: It's just not an emphasis.
Speaker 26: So something that I'm noticing and curious about as I
read like justin Marter and his brief mention of you
know what these Sundays look like.
Speaker 15: I think those Sunday but those Sundays are liturgical celebrations,
even in Justin Martyr that culminate in the Eucharist according to.
Speaker 26: Him, right, okay, right, And and that's one of the
things I appreciate most and attracted to most about Orthodox
he is the emphasis and revolving around the Holy Sacraments
and specifically the Eucharist.
Speaker 6: So that's cool.
Speaker 26: Cool, And then I'm trying to think if there's anything
else you answered my question about you know Mary, and
that that really is probably the biggest hangout.
Speaker 15: Have you seen the video I did a forty minute
video on the biblical view of Mary?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I actually think I did a couple of weeks back.
Speaker 26: Is that with the Ark of the Covenant as the Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
that was cool. Yeah, awesome. Just to tap in one
more question would be when it comes to the story
when when the woman yells out to Jesus and or
his disciples and says, blessed is you know the mother
who he's nursed at her breast and whatnot? And he
doesn't rebuke her, but he says, rather bless her are
those who to do you know, who do the Lord's.
Speaker 6: Will, who follow me?
Speaker 15: Yeah, she fits the double blessing. That's the point. So
it's not like no, she's not blessed for being my mother. Rather,
it's these things. It's rather blessed are those who do both.
And she did both. That's why she's the new Eve.
As Aaron AA.
Speaker 26: Says, cool, Well, thanks appreciate it, Ja, Yeah, and I
think I mean Revelation twelve also, I mean, I think
it makes it really clear that she's exalted to.
Speaker 15: Be the queen of Heaven. And the reason for that
is precisely because if you look at the typology, you'll
look back in the Old Testament, you'll see multiple types
of Mary, and Protestants miss this. But Sarah is a
type of Mary, Hannah is a type of Mary. And
the Magnificat prophesies that all generations would call her the
blessed Mother. And that's precisely the thing that Protestants stopped doing,
especially as you know, Protestantism evolved into more radical forms.
I mean, Luther probably still called her the blessed Mother
at the Tokos, But as Protestism progress progresses, they literally
just break with the entire tradition of even the Protestants,
like the classical Reformers believed in perpetual virginity, and then
they just discarded that and then, oh, no, we don't
have to. But look, here's the reason for a lot
of this is this is something that Protestants don't understand,
is that the Bible was not primarily meant to be
your study text. There's nothing wrong with studying the Bible
and having that as your daily reading and all that.
That's what you're supposed to do. But the actual proper
context is to be heard in the liturgy, and that's
something that Protestants just can't fathom. But the weird part
that they're not aware of is that you actually have
to go to the ancient liturgical texts to know in
part what the Bible canon is. These are called the electionaries,
and so as the Church was forming and debating the
canon of scripture, one of the things that Protestant scholars
admit they went back to, not the president scholars, but
the church fathers. What they looked to was the daily readings,
the electionaries. Those are liturgical texts. Liturgical texts had a
huge role in canonicity. And once I learned that and
saw F. F. Bruce Lee MacDonald, all these Protestant scholars
admitting that that was one of the ways that I
exited Protestantism because they are admitting that it's not just
a matter of the early Church going to people's basements
and houses and becoming scriptoriums like a bunch of rabbis.
We just sit here with torah, scroll pointers and look
at these books all day long. No, no, we eat the book. Now,
we eat the book. How do you eat the book
as Ezekiel did prophecy of the New Covenant? How do
you eat the word? Oh, the liturgy exactly, the Eucharist.
That's how you eat the word. You don't just read
it and bringing it to your mind. You partake of
it for your whole being. And so Protestanism is an
intellectual gnostic position that thinks, like Muslims and Jews, that
the salvation is through the paper of the book, when
Ezekiel eats the book, which is a prediction of the Eucharist.
Hence John six, all right, I see you were raising
your hand.
Speaker 6: Hello, yep, jay, can you hear me?
Speaker 15: Yep?
Speaker 6: Hey? What's going going on? So?
Speaker 16: I am a catech human new Cateauman, but I was
raised a Protestant, and for the last ten years I
actually was in a charismatic church or Church, Charismatic group,
and a big part of that, big part of the theology,
I guess, is that you have to speak in tongues,
and they have a they have a term that says
the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of
speaking in tongues. So you know that that for me
was I grew up non to nom initially, and then
so that for me was kind of like, whoa, this
is different, this is wild. And then you look at
the they say in Acts two you have the day
of Pentecost, and then they come out speaking tongues. I
always had a problem with that because the tongues and
the Charismatic Church is like gibberish, and then the tongues
in Acts two says that the people can hear their
own language. So I always thought there was something weird
about that. But I kind of just you know, you
move along and you pursue God or.
Speaker 6: Whatever, and but then but then now, as a.
Speaker 16: Kind of human, you know, I I can easily accept Okay,
that was the term zeno glossia as opposed to glossalia.
But I'm seeing in Corinthians there's a part where Paul
is talking about the gift of tongues in being used
in worship, and that.
Speaker 15: It's just languages, bro, It's just languages. So it's translating
the texts or the message the revelation into various languages,
which is what is done in the Orthodox Church where
everywhere they go they put it into the vernacular. It's
not gibberish, there's no there's no secret angel language that
charismatic heretics are doing.
Speaker 27: Wow.
Speaker 16: Okay, Okay, that that makes perfect sense.
Speaker 9: And I don't know why that was hard for me too.
Speaker 15: Yes, it's just it's literally just translating or having the
gift of knowing and translating languages, or maybe even if
you're not academic, like it could be like at Pentzeco,
it's the miraculous event where the languages are understood, right right.
Speaker 6: Okay, cool?
Speaker 16: Yeah, So that was that was a bit kind of
like a not a stumbling.
Speaker 9: Block for me, but just a question that I had.
Speaker 16: And I'll agree that things that you've been saying a
lot of really good things already so far about Protestantism
and how like, for instance, it's not the Bible is
not like a study a study book that you take
home and you read, and I feel like the like
Protestants in me included, it's it's a matter of just
almost like throwing.
Speaker 28: Away all these ways.
Speaker 16: That you read the Bible and you have to like
redo the whole thing.
Speaker 9: It's really hard for.
Speaker 6: A lot of people to do that. But yeah, for me,
as a coming from the.
Speaker 16: Charismatic Church, you know, there's a huge focus on like
worshiping God and just pursuing God in like an unabandoned
kind of way.
Speaker 6: So coming to Orthodoxy.
Speaker 9: Also was very easy for me too, because.
Speaker 16: I'm like, Okay, all of that stuff that I learned,
I can just throw that away and just worship God
and just focus on the liturgy. So would you say
that the liturgy is the greatest way to learn Orthodoxy?
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean you're going to learn it when you
attend and when you're in the that's the best categorizer.
I mean, you'll have catechises too, but I mean the liturgy.
The liturgy will teach you that theology in a very
profound quick way if you pay attention.
Speaker 16: To it, right right, right, Okay, Well that was really
just a big question that I had, what I've been
thinking about for a while, So I appreciate it thank.
Speaker 15: You, sure, thank you. Yeah, those are good questions. I
think a lot of people assume that the quote languages
in First Corinthians are some sort of weird gibberish or
secret Gnostic thing. I've seen some exegesis from the Orthodox
perspective that Paul's talking about noetic prayer. So that's a possibility.
But the sign of Pentecost, if you look back to Isaiah,
I think it's Isaiah twenty let me see twenty two
or twenty four, let me see. So when Pentecost happens,
it's actually a fulfillment of a bunch of things in
the Old Testament, not least of which is the feast
of Towernacles and Pentecosts. Right, So in Isaiah twenty nine
and twenty eight, depending on which I think this might
differ in the masoretic versus the septuagen but twenty twenty
nine you have mentions of the speaking in another language
which will be assigned to the Jews. And Pentecost is
the reversal of Babel, right, because you have the confusion
of languages at the Tower Babbel Genesis ten, and then
you have the reversal of which, by the way, is
explaining the Orthodox liturgy. Pentecost is the reversal of Babel
to bring everyone back together in unity. And it would
make no sense if it's gibberish in Acts two. So
the languages in Acts two have to be known, miraculous
understanding of a bunch of people speaking different languages to
be understood in one unified way. And that's the fulfillment
of Isaiah twenty eight twenty nine that it's a sign
to the Jews when you see this miraculous reversal of
Babel and the language is being understood, that means it's
not gibberish, unknown angel language stoic. So to the people
talking smack in the chat, if you can't come defend
your positions, then you're just wasting your times. It's not
a place for you to spam. So we asked that
you come to debate, don't lie, and so that you
don't know what Twitter is or how to call in
on Twitter. All you do is click into the room.
There's the link right there. Otherwise, why are you wasting
everybody's time? And I recognize your name, Kyle. You've been
like I've been over here for a long I've seen
your name for years? What do you what is this
low tier crap that you're saying that you don't know
how to call in on Twitter and that I'm I'm
a Calvinist, Larking is Orthodox and this is like how
many years do I have to be in the Orthodox
Church before like people stop saying stupid shit like this.
I mean it's like seven eight years. Come on, Stoic,
what's up on you?
Speaker 6: Hey? Yeah, I was just calling in.
Speaker 29: I have some questions about Catholicism because so I actually
grew up Eastern Orthodox, but I just so I have
some people personally close to me that have kind of
like bought into like.
Speaker 6: Hemism and you know, like bought into what.
Speaker 29: Palmism, you know, and like Roman Catholic doctor and in general.
Speaker 15: Well, let me ask you the first question. First question
before you move on. Do you think that the modern
Vatican has cared about Tomism for the last seventy eight years?
Speaker 5: No, not at all.
Speaker 29: Now, sure ahead, Yeah, I'm just curious, like when did
the approach of like Roman Catholicism become so much more
like legalistic than Eastern Christianity.
Speaker 15: I don't think there's one point. There's a kind of
an ongoing evolution over time. As to why the Latin
Church took on that attitude, you could look to the
tendency in Rome itself to favor organizational structure and authority,
whereas in the East, generally speaking, you had a much
more metaphysically minded discussion. I mean, even the Roman poets
and Roman philosophers are very practical and very interested in,
you know, the imperium. If you look at the Stoics
or if you look at Marcus Aurelius, they're not interested in
a lot of metaphysical speculation. But if you go to
the Greek mind, do you have a lot more metaphysics,
a lot more you know, Plato aristotl discussing stuff that
the Roman don't really care about. So I think that
the Roman attitude and mind of organizational structure and legality
played a key role in the formation and influence of
the Western Church, the Latin Church. And then I think
that after Augustine you get presuppositions in his theology that
maybe he didn't himself necessarily hold to, but that over
time led to more and more strict legalities. For example,
all infants are damned because they're damned in atom everyone's
in atom and so in the Augustinian position, there's this
sort of legal attitude that everybody is an atom, as
in an archetype, including all the future infants, and they're
automatically de facto damned. It's called the mass dam nata doctrine.
It's not even controversial. It's well known that he taught this.
So those things develop over time, and then you eventually
get things like and some satisfaction view which is influenced
by some of these ideas, and then eventually you get
you know, high tier just total dictatus pope, you know,
unam Suncam you have to hold to, you know, all
these legalities of the Western Latin system's view of the
pope as a world emperor or else you're lost.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 29: Yeah, And I guess it's just really confusing because I
was watching a live term reviewers from a Complete or
last June when the papal was called the Bishop of
Rome premiacy document came out that Yeah, and it's just
really confusing because it seems like like the message and tone,
like post was a post concilliar era just continues to
do this thing where they act like they you know,
they're continuing to be legalistic, but like, didn't what you
just referenced about like infants being damned?
Speaker 6: Did they like backtrack on that?
Speaker 15: Yeah, if you read the new document from the Vatican
on limbo from a few years ago, it says that
you don't even have to believe that anymore.
Speaker 29: But how I don't get how they can keep like
I don't want to, you know, the meme, like how
do they keep getting away with this?
Speaker 15: Like because they pray on the but because it's a
strong delusion that the followers won't be honest with themselves
and they want to. I mean, there's all kinds of
reasons why people don't leave it, but I mean a
lot of people feel like they can solve the system
or rescue it, and they take on this idiotic project
of trying to make it all work and some sort
of giant out like there will like they're goodwill hunting
and they're Matt Damon, they're gonna walk in, you know,
from being a janitor and like solve this giant papal
nonsense equation on the math talkboard or whatever.
Speaker 29: Yeah, because like between that and then like with the
whole legalistic approach, when when I heard you like talk
about the monarchical you know, structure of the Trinity.
Speaker 6: I wouldn't.
Speaker 29: I wasn't very well kind of guys growing up Eastern Orthodox.
I guess I'm grateful I was Orthodox.
Speaker 6: But like I just don't.
Speaker 29: I'm trying to understand how like what it seems like
you're saying, there wasn't really an inflection point, but there's
these things that maybe were understood for a long time
in Eastern Orthodoxy that just changed at some point like overtime.
Like like Saint Thomas Aquinas comes along, he talks about
divine simplicity, makes a giant book, and then they just like.
Speaker 15: Jump shit or what No, I mean the trinitarian errors,
original sin, like, all of the errors are not all
at once. They take time to develop. So for example,
the papacy doctrine as Vatican One frames it, even they
themselves typically argue that it evolves. So when they're presented
with these challenges, a lot of times they will appeal
to doctrinal development, which just for them means that it's
changing over time.
Speaker 29: It just feels like an like unfalsifiable position.
Speaker 15: No, that's exactly what the papacy is.
Speaker 6: It.
Speaker 15: It's in I mean like ninety percent of them argue
in an unfalsifiable way. Anytime there's a problem, it's suddenly
not binding in not ex cathedra. Uh and so yeah,
anyway you go about it like they pick and choose
like Protestants, which papal teachings they follow. So you know
it's it's absolutely by the way, an unfalsifiable system is
a sign that it's extremely weak.
Speaker 29: Yeah, you were talking about this, I think in that
same lime stream live stream about the premacy document, and
I just I was, I was laughing really hard at
the whole, like wait for Vatican four, and wait for
Vatican five, and wait for Vatican six, because when I
was reading the documents, it seems like they just keep
making the same statement. Will like, oh, when we looked
it over again, even though we said we can't go
back on previous understanding, we're gonna like casually do it.
Speaker 6: But gaslight in you thinking it's not the.
Speaker 15: Case, right, Yeah, absolutely, It's just so weird.
Speaker 6: I don't know, Well, Donna take much too much for
your time. I appreciate it.
Speaker 30: I thought I was.
Speaker 29: I just felt like I was being gas lit by
the like the inconsistencies.
Speaker 6: So I don't know. I just appreciate your stuff.
Speaker 15: Sure, yeah, you were being gas So that's uh, that's
how they do their apologetics. Here's a trad Catholic. He's
gonna watch him do that everything. I tried to turn
the audio up, trad Cat, Are you there, I'm mute,
trad Cat, I'm mute, and he ran away. So there
you go. So there's your trad cats for you. Try again.
I'm mute.
Speaker 6: Okay, now, yes, I couldn't hear you before.
Speaker 31: Can you hear me?
Speaker 15: Yep?
Speaker 6: I just had a question.
Speaker 32: What's your position on like the Rosary?
Speaker 15: I don't know. I mean Orthodox don't need it and
probably shouldn't do it because usually the rosary is tied
to Roman cally delusions like imaginative prayer and all this
kind of stuff.
Speaker 6: What do you mean imaginative?
Speaker 15: I mean that's your own tradition. You're not aware of it.
Speaker 32: Like what you mean, like when you're like meditating on mysteries.
Speaker 15: Well, it's more than that, because it's part of the
Jesuit tradition. It's part of what Alfonso's wory tells you
to do, which is to imagine all these scenarios, imagine
yourself in hell imagine all these things, and so that's
we don't do that. We reject that delusion.
Speaker 6: But what what's like the harm in doing that?
Speaker 15: Because humans are susceptible to those kinds of delusions. For example,
I've had heard countless Roman calviocs say, oh, I know,
roma's also true because I was praying the Rosary and
Mary appeared in my dreams and comforted me. I mean
that's not a good reason to believe the religion.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I.
Speaker 32: Agree, But like I'm saying, like as a practice of faith,
like or helping you like overcome sin and stuff like that, Like, wouldn't.
Speaker 6: That be good?
Speaker 15: No, imaginative prayer is not part of our tradition, So
it doesn't achieve the purification of the passion or the
news or anything like that. In fact, it encourages delusion
and pre list.
Speaker 32: So then how would you like word towards singing lesson
stuff like that?
Speaker 6: What would you do then?
Speaker 15: Through the entire ethos of the Orthodox Church?
Speaker 6: Like, can you give me some examples?
Speaker 15: Yeah, Well, we have asceticism, we have attendants at the liturgy, confession, Eucharist,
all those things.
Speaker 32: So the Eos believe in translo right, in what transistentiation.
Speaker 15: We believe in the real presence and that it's really
a participation in the uncreated grace. But we don't have
the Roman Catholic position that you're eating a created divine substance.
Speaker 6: A creative divine substance.
Speaker 32: Yeah, I don't think that's what the Catholics believe.
Speaker 15: Well, you don't need the essence of God, right, No, okay,
so what do you eat the body?
Speaker 32: Well, actually it says that we eat the body's soul
and divinity.
Speaker 15: And what's the divinity? You don't believe in the essence
inary sanctions? So what's the divinity?
Speaker 6: Uh to say, I'm not sure then, yeah.
Speaker 15: Because it's a created substantial or created accident.
Speaker 32: It's like it's like created grace or something.
Speaker 15: Correct, So is there created God?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 15: Well you just said you eat divinity. Now you're saying
it's a created God, but that didn't exist, which one
is it?
Speaker 8: Uh?
Speaker 6: Wait?
Speaker 32: But how does like having like created grace or something,
and you're that that's like a created God.
Speaker 15: You literally just said that in the Eucharist you partake
a body, blood, soul, and divinity. I asked you what
the divinity is? You said that it's not the essence
of God.
Speaker 6: Huh, it would be a created grace.
Speaker 15: Is a created grace a creature?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 15: No, so there's uncreated creatures.
Speaker 6: What do you mean a creature?
Speaker 15: Like you just called it created. You don't know what
created means.
Speaker 32: Yeah, but like you're saying it like it's like a
person or something.
Speaker 15: Okay, no idea what you're talking about. You don't even
know your own traditions, terminology discussion. Calling it a creature
is calling it a person. Wow, there's a romanchaolics for you,
trad cats baby meta.
Speaker 33: Hello, yep, Hey Jay, So I was watching your debate
with Matt dyl a monkey as you like to call him,
and I was just curious on one of the debate
points that you guys are discussing. So essentially, I guess
whenever it went to like the conclusive part of the debate,
wherever he was saying he doesn't have to have a
justification for these fundamental, fundamental metaphysical claims. So how is
that different from like positing that God exists?
Speaker 15: Because the argument was giving a justification for why I
can say that God exists. I wasn't just saying God exists,
therefore it is. My argument was that if Matt doesn't
have to give a justification, then I don't.
Speaker 33: So then that puts you guys on the same plane essentially.
Speaker 15: Well, it's pointing out that he wouldn't accept that line
of argumentation, So why should I accept that from him
in a debate?
Speaker 6: Oh? Interesting, Okay, that's pretty much what I want.
Speaker 15: Yeah, no, it's it's a good question. I haven't actually
listened to that debate a long time, so maybe I
should go back and review, like an old debate like that. George,
Matt doesn't even know that emergent properties, as Father Deacon
and Ias has pointed out, do not aid materialism in
any way. Emergent properties arose as a theory against materialism,
but Matt doesn't even know that. George, mister Dyer.
Speaker 6: Thank you for having me up. I have a friend
who's an Anglican priest. He's agreed to debate you, but
he prefers to do it in a formal space. He
sort of doesn't want to be moderated. Would you fire
me a DM and I'll just introduce you and you too.
Speaker 15: Who is it?
Speaker 6: His name is Father James and he's on here.
Speaker 17: He doesn't have James.
Speaker 6: His last name is not on his profile. I'm sure
he would be happy to give you all his information.
Speaker 15: Well, there's a certain angl can I know that I'm
not interested in debating. So I'm trying to figure out
that was him, But I don't think it is. Does he?
How big is his following? And what what would I
get out of this?
Speaker 6: All right, so he's going to fall small, small following.
Speaker 15: Not interested? Thank you appreciate it. S no, anybody not
trying to be rude, but I don't do formal debates
with anybody who has small following. So that's what the
Twitter spaces are for. If you want to come to debate,
anybody can do that. Uh, let's see, where's that guy
that was begging to be let back in here? Data boy?
So do we have any Protestants? I know we've got
a lot of people asking Orthodox questions, which is fine,
but I'm looking for Protestants who disagree. O cay see one?
Anybody else? Raise your hand if you're a Protestant who
wants to come to the front line. We got sick
Steen people in London. What's up? Okay? I see one
and then we'll go to this ex Muslim guy, and
then we'll go to Jordan. Okay, ex Muslim. What's up?
By the way, mods, if you would debate that Kyle guy,
if if he won't come to by, just boot him.
He's wasting everybody's time. I don't know if he left
or what. But it's just like, there's nothing weaker than
like popping in here to talk about how you're a
bad person. And by the way, I can't debate out here.
By what's up? I'm yeah, man, why are you raising
your hand? You're you're on the thing?
Speaker 6: Yes, shotum, and greetings to all of you. My name
is Ramin. I'm a former Muslim and a Christian.
Speaker 34: Now he can put me in the category of a Protestant,
but I try not to basically put myself in a
category because the Bible doesn't say if you're a Protestant
or Catholic or art buct will be saved. It says
you must be born again.
Speaker 15: Now, But what does that mean because the rest of
the New Testament texts talk about that being baptism.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well born again is we have three kinds of
death in the Bible.
Speaker 34: When is it physical death, spiritual death, and eternal death?
Speaker 6: Which is also called second death.
Speaker 15: So that what does it have to do with baptism.
Speaker 6: What I just said, baptism is an outer outer.
Speaker 15: You're just repeating Protestant Baptist doctrines. And I'm telling you
in Titus three five, it's called the washing of the
labor regeneration.
Speaker 6: Yes, but that's in this speit's what happened.
Speaker 15: How do you know that? You're just asserting that when
Paul doesn't make that distinction. How do you know that
every time Paul talks about baptism is quote spiritual, Well.
Speaker 34: The baptism was an outer confession.
Speaker 15: You're just restating the question I'm asking you, how do
you know that that's what Paul means and all those
passages about.
Speaker 6: Baptism, because it's all over the Bible.
Speaker 15: So the answer is it's all over when that's the
thing I'm asking you. So in other words, so why
what are you for the third time going to just
tell me your interpretation again?
Speaker 6: No, it's not my interpretation. Is what the Bible says.
Speaker 15: That's what you're saying, That's what the Bible says, And
I'm saying no. In John three, I think Jesus is
talking about water baptism, and that's why Acts too. Peter says,
repent and be baptized for the remission of sins? Is
it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine?
Speaker 6: What the bone again happens?
Speaker 15: Is it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine. Yes,
oh it is. But that's where he says, is the
remission of sins?
Speaker 34: No, the remission of sins, it doesn't happen with Washington
the water.
Speaker 15: It literally says that in Act two thirty eight thirty nine.
Speaker 34: No, nobody gets saved by being baptizing the water.
Speaker 15: That's your Yeah, please keep us starting the Protestant doctrine,
which is what I'm challenging, which you said it is
water baptism in actually thirty eight and thirty nine. And
he says that that is the remission of sentence.
Speaker 6: But listen, when I became a believer, I.
Speaker 15: This is your subjective interpretation. I don't. It doesn't matter
what you what your personal experience was.
Speaker 34: No, I'm telling you right now there are tens of
thousands of Iranians who have become believers in Jesus and
they are not able to get baptized because in Iran,
there's not possibility to get arrested or but they love
the Lord and they're not even baptized, but they're born again,
they're full of.
Speaker 6: The Holy space.
Speaker 15: Let's just bag in the question. I mean, they may
be in God's mind and that's fine, but the normative
means by which we do this is said to be
multiple times throughout the New Testament, actual baptism. So you're
just assuming Protestantism, which is the very thing that I'm
questioning about. So how do you prove Protestantism to me?
Speaker 34: Well, as I said, I'm not a Protestant, was a basically, you.
Speaker 15: Are a Protestant. Why are you acting like you're not? Okay, evangelical?
Is that better?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 34: So basically what happened with the Protestantism Martin Luther, it
was a protest against Catholic system of you know, justification
by works.
Speaker 6: And unaware on faith plus works. And what all Protestant
was was no.
Speaker 15: Again, I don't need to I know the history of
the Pross and Reformation. I'm not trying to be rude
to you, but I'm asking you about evangelicalism, which is
what you're part of, and I'm asking you, why should
we accept evangelicalism.
Speaker 34: I guess it's not evangelicalism, it's being.
Speaker 15: Or being dishonest because you just admitted that you weren't
evangelical like two minutes ago.
Speaker 34: Yeah, evangelical? What is evangelical?
Speaker 6: The Christians?
Speaker 15: I'm not going to argue with you over terms. Where
do you get your Bible from?
Speaker 6: What do you mean? What am I going about?
Speaker 15: Where do you get the Bible from? Did it just
fall out of the air into Iran?
Speaker 6: No? I actually run is illegal to a Bible. So
I don't live in your own now. I live in Israel.
Speaker 34: But when I when I became a believer, I served
for a Bible for three months.
Speaker 6: I find one.
Speaker 15: We're moving on, not falling for that. Jordan Jordan, Michael Jordan,
I'm mute. We can't hear you, dude. I don't know
if you don't know, didn't turn your mic on or what?
But you want to come back, turn your mic on
and come back, We'll go to you. All right. Let's see,
I thought I was supposed to unmute this, unblock this
guy who he hasn't showed up. So see this is
what I'm saying, Like when I block people. It's usually
for a good reason, and then when they want to
be unblocked, they don't come in debate because that's what
they said they wanted.
Speaker 17: Here we go go ahead.
Speaker 9: Hello, okay, okay, I'll teach you later.
Speaker 6: Oh sorry, I'll be with you in one minute.
Speaker 15: Okay, bring your mom on to debate. She'll probably did
about in't you. We got a trad cat whose mom's
fustin at him because he won't get off the computer
in the basement. He's used up his computer time in
the basement, So bring your mom on to debate.
Speaker 6: Sorry about that.
Speaker 15: Your mom a debate better than you want you to
bring her on.
Speaker 9: Oh hey, ja, I tried connecting a few weeks ago,
but I was having computer issues.
Speaker 28: Sorry about that.
Speaker 15: Did your mom let you stay on longer this time?
Speaker 9: That wasn't my mom, that was someone else?
Speaker 6: Okay, go ahead. So I am Catholic.
Speaker 9: I think I said that on one of my previous
previous appearances. So I definitely do believe in, like, you know,
continuity with the ancient Church and Apostolic succession and all that.
Speaker 6: I should say.
Speaker 9: That I was baptized Catholic. I went to a Presbyterian
church for a little bit when I was like nine,
and I got confirmed Catholic as a teenager. So that's
my background.
Speaker 6: I guess you could say, Okay, so.
Speaker 9: I'm not Protestant as you know, and I do believe
in Apostolic succession, and I don't believe in like you know,
I don't believe you know when like set of Acantism or.
Speaker 17: Any anything like that.
Speaker 9: I think those intellectual positions are untenable. So I take
it you as an Orthodox Christian, you have your own
ways to debunk, say, like the old calendarists and like
the quote unquote genuine orthodox.
Speaker 15: I don't know about my own way, but I have, uh.
I mean, David Rhan made a whole video that's pretty
good on this about the legalistic it's actually a Western
mindset that every all the grace is shut off or
something like that. I mean, what about it? What is it?
I mean, what is that going to prove against? Like
I mean, so that'd be like me saying, well, you
have a set of a contest so Roman Catholicism is false,
Like how does that prove or disprove anything?
Speaker 9: I would I was just asking what your thoughts on
like the old calendar.
Speaker 15: Well, most many old calendars are. Also. My church is
on the old calendar.
Speaker 6: So well, I know that Rokor.
Speaker 15: I know that.
Speaker 9: The Russian Orthodox Church and the Serbian Orthodox Church and
the Georgian Orthodox Church all used the old calendar liturgically,
mm hmm, but I know some of the other countries
that they used the reformed Julian calendar. There was a
schism in like the twenties or something.
Speaker 15: I mean, I would argue that if the church is
not canonical, then that's really not a church. And I
don't know of any time in history where we were
supposed to go to a non canonical church. So the
creation of a parallel ecclesiology to me doesn't make sense.
Speaker 9: Okay, that definitely does make sense. I do have some
questions about Augustine and how his philosophy shaped the Catholic Church.
You would talk about this a little earlier, so I
do know about Augustine's doctrine of original sin. How the
Orthodox don't accept that. They call it ancestral sin. If
I'm not mistaken now, I know that I'm pretty sure
the Council of Trent said that humans, all humans, are
guilty of Adam's sin.
Speaker 28: But if I'm not.
Speaker 9: Mistaken, the current Catholic catechism is more takes a position
that's more similar to the Orthodox position, and they say
that humans are no longer that is correct, guilty of
adam sin.
Speaker 15: Right, Yeah, the modern Roman Catholic position is much closer
to the Orthodox position distinguishes actual sin from original sin.
I mean that actually goes back to the Middle Ages
where even when infant limbo was mentioned in the early
Middle Ages, that was attended with the idea that there's
a distinction between the deprivation of grace and original sin
versus personal guilt, which comes about through actual sin. So
infants did not have personal guilt, but they did have
the effects of this of the fall, which was the
deprivation of grace and so forth, hence why we baptize infants.
And the Orthodox we would agree with that, but we
also would argue that there was still the strand and
the paint of the notion that sin is in some
way passed on in an actual guilt way through seminal transmission,
which is something that we would disagree with. Sin is
not transmitted, but the effects of the fall are transmitted.
So that's why you get the recent Vatican statement on
all this that it did evolve over time in the
Romancalthoy position nowadays is not what it was in the
West in the fifth sixth seventh century.
Speaker 9: Did this change with Vatican two or was it before that?
Speaker 15: Well, I would say Vatican two played a role in it,
because Vatican two did attempt to bring in so called
quote voices and inspiration from the East. There were a
lot of periti at Vatican two, like Hans Wor's on Balthazar,
who were very influenced by Eastern theology, so that could
play a role. But the Vatican statement on Limbo was
not that long ago, so it was a post Vatican.
Speaker 9: Two okay, And that's the one you were talking about
earlier that said infants aren't damned?
Speaker 15: Correct, Well, this is why. Yeah, it's uh, let's see
when did this come out? Pulling it up there, I
highly recommend people interested in this topic should read it.
Doesn't have a date on it, so I'm not sure
when this comes. When this came out, but it's called
the Hope for Salvation of Infants who die without being baptized.
This was a CDF document. I think under rat Singer
it might have been under John Paul. I don't recall.
Speaker 9: Speaking of baptism the last guy who came on here.
I know in the Catholic Church there's this concept of
baptism by blood and baptism by desire, which are kind
of like the non normative means someone would.
Speaker 15: Be Yeah, I mean that's true. We believe in that
in the Orthodox Church.
Speaker 6: Two.
Speaker 9: Okay, so that's in the Orthodox tradition as well.
Speaker 15: Yeah, and now if we had gotten further in that discussion, I'm.
Speaker 9: Sure you know about the Catholic heresy of Foeneism.
Speaker 15: Was a big fan of Father Phenie at one time.
Speaker 9: Yeah. Well, basically the Catholic Church doesn't quld to that
position obviously. But I do have another question about something
that was brought up earlier. I think it was with
I think we're talking about Protestant mariology. And I noticed
a lot of evangelicals online are very adamant that Mary
had to have had other children and had to have
had relations with Joseph, and that was a Catholic I,
of course believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Did
this idea that he had to have had other children
or had to have you know, had relations with Joseph.
Is this something that comes from like higher biblical criticism.
Speaker 15: Well, it was proposed by Helvidius in the days of Jerome,
So I mean it's not it's not a new idea,
but it's very possible that more recent higher critical scholars
also probably promoted that idea.
Speaker 9: I do know about Helvidius, and I believe Saint Jerome.
Speaker 6: Wrote a work.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean his views in three D three a
D if I'm not.
Speaker 15: Mistaken, Yeah, it pulled up.
Speaker 9: Yes, So another question, because I do know about the
higher criticism that came out of I'm sure you know
about people like.
Speaker 28: Adolf von Harnak and what was.
Speaker 15: That other guy, Julius. There's that other guy, uh schlier Marker.
There's a whole bunch of them.
Speaker 9: Schlier Marker, that Friedrich Schleiermacher. That's why I was thinking of.
And then there was a lot of big Boltmann. He
was a more contemporary Rudolph Boltmant. Rudolph Boltmann, my bad,
but I know this is one of the.
Speaker 27: I know this.
Speaker 9: You argue against Protestants a lot that Luther taking out
the wanting to take out the Epistle of James and
some other books led to this, you know, deconstruction.
Speaker 6: Of the canon.
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think that you can definitely trace higher criticism
to Luther. I mean, I don't think Luther is the
only influence, but he's a major influence in Germany for
the idea that the Bible is not a book that's
owned and possessed and the purview of the church. It's
now in the hands of the secular academics to dissect
and to tell us who the Bible really belongs to
and what the text really are. And I would say
if you look at somebody like wes Huff, like, I'm
again glad that wes Huff refuted that black pyramid space bro.
But I mean, the very thing that wes Huff is
arguing for, ironically, is the idea that the academics are
the ones that are going to preserve and tell us
what the true texts of the Bible are. Is the
very thing that led to the higher critical scholarship dissecting
and destroying the Bible.
Speaker 9: This is the guy who was on Joe Rogan recently, right, Yeah,
he's a Calvinist, isn't he.
Speaker 15: I know he's a Protestant of some comment. I don't
know what his saturial.
Speaker 9: I think he has made some criticisms of Catholicism.
Speaker 6: I don't know if he has of Orthodoxy.
Speaker 15: Yeah, he has, He's obviously he's critical of them both.
I mean, he's a committed Protestant of some of some sort.
Speaker 9: Oh are you going to debate him at any point?
Speaker 15: Or well, I've offered, but he says that he's not
in a place where he's ready to do any more debates,
So I don't think it'll ever happen. But I'm i
put out of video saying that I'm more than happy
to debate him.
Speaker 9: Okay, I haven't watched the Joe Rogan episode with him,
but I might because I'm kind of interested to hear
what he says. But I do notice that a lot
of Protestants have this very individual, individualistic view of the Bible, like.
Speaker 6: It's just in yeah, in my bedroom.
Speaker 15: Well that's called the right, that's called the right of
private interpretation, and that was actually one of the core
historic doctrines of the Protestant Reformers.
Speaker 29: So yeah, yeah, are you familiar with this?
Speaker 6: This website?
Speaker 9: It's kind of like non are you familiar with this,
like non denominational Christian website questions.
Speaker 15: I've seen it, Papa, but I'm not familiar with it.
But hey, appreciate you coming on. Thank you for being
a good nature guy. About the jokes. We like to
have fun over here. Dang, we got twenty almost twenty
five people in line. So today I'm taking giving a
precedent to Protestants who disagree. If you're a Protestant disagrees,
raise your hand. You can ask questions, but if you
would like to debate, please keep it to making arguments.
That means that you actually give the basis for your position.
You don't just keep asserting your position over and overhere,
you tell us why your position's true. So hopefully you
have some idea about what it means to make an argument.
Not trying to be rude to you. Let's see somebody's
raising their hand. We've got so many people in here.
Let's see King's fool. Okay, so this is the guy unmuted,
Go ahead, howdy.
Speaker 35: So you made a video a while back talking about
Protestism and criticizing them a bit, and this open debate
performed plat format that you do and three issues you
said you stayed with. It was it was a historical.
It was anti sacramental, anti mystical, and just flat out dumb. Yes,
the problem that I have with that is specifically a
historical and the issues I have with that, and some
of the issues you gave for why protestant is antihistorical
was they don't follow the liturgical warship properly. They don't
do certain customs and traditions that were practiced by the
early Church, and don't have the exact same pieces of scripture.
Speaker 6: Some example.
Speaker 15: Those are some examples. There could be many more listed.
Speaker 35: Sure, And the issue I have with that, if Protestantism
is a historical by those, I would say, so is Orthodoxy.
Speaker 15: And how is that?
Speaker 27: Well?
Speaker 35: For starters Constantinople fell in fourteen fifty three.
Speaker 15: You can't be serious that this is an argument, that
you think this is an argument.
Speaker 28: It's just it's the start of one.
Speaker 15: Yeah, what does this have to do with the theology.
This is why I block this guy, because this is
too too dumb. I mean, are you the synoticon of Orthodoxy?
Speaker 36: Yeah?
Speaker 35: Because I believe in the sonoticon of Orthodoxy. In one
of the statements you give Thanksgiving, and that is the
glorification and of the defenders of Orthodoxy might not mistaken.
Speaker 15: Probably, I don't remember. It's a giant text.
Speaker 35: It's a giant text that's different among different branches of Orthodoxy.
Speaker 15: Right because different bishops can add their own personal For example,
Metropolitan Seraphim a Pereas adds the Joe's witnesses to the
condom name texture.
Speaker 35: And the problem I have with that is the statement
of the defender of Orthodoxy, which originally within the church
was the Holy Roman Emperor, as was stated by Anthony,
Patriarch of Constantinople in thirteen ninety three to a to
a letter to Basle the First, the Grand Prince of Moscow, saying,
my son, it is not possible for Christians to have
a church and not have an emperor.
Speaker 28: Church and Empire have a great.
Speaker 6: Unity and community.
Speaker 35: It is not possible for them to be separated from
one another. For the Holy Emperor is not as other
rulers and the governors of other regions.
Speaker 28: And this is because the emperors from.
Speaker 35: The beginning establish and confirmed true religion Eustia in all
inhabited world Okiomennia.
Speaker 28: They convoke the Yeah, I don't know to pronounce.
Speaker 15: The word obviously, and so orthodoxy is false because z
Antium fell.
Speaker 28: I mean, it's not just that Bonantium fell.
Speaker 15: Puppet all right, Now we see why I booted this guy,
and I was right to boot that guy. This is
too stupid to even entertain. So, guys, I know you
want entertainment, but when you asked me to bring back
Banantium and these kinds of goofballs, it's usually because they're
booted for a reason. So let's get on my banana
phone and let's call up Banantium and let's talk to
the Bananatine emperor and see if we can get any
history about why he's not ruling on an earthly throne
to help ensure Banantium. Hello, Hello, Can anyone else call
in the banana phone and see if they can get
the Bananantine Emperor? Hello? I just hear monkey is chirping.
I think I called the Matt Dillon monkey line accidentally.
I got Matt Dolamuchi on speed dial. True, byzantium fell.
I don't know if you guys knew this, but byzantium fell,
So time to pack it up. Wortho, bros. Your religion's dead.
I don't where is bumpkin? He keeps thumbing down, like
fifty times in a row. Do you want to come on? Dude?
I don't understand what your what's your mental illness is?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 15: Where are you at, Bumpkin? I mean, are you not
in the line to speak? You just want to thumb down?
This is so stupid. Look, uh, just to like me
as Byzantine Emperor of the Banana Tine Emperor of the
are you'll cool ya mine and the problem solved? Bro Okay, Bumpkin.
If you're not gonna come on to debate, then you're
just clogging up with all of your memes, I mean,
your emojis, so you're wasting everybody's time, by the way
I would. I don't even want to live in the
Byzantine Emperor Empire. I want to live in the Banana
teen Emperor Empire, the Banana teen Empire where we're all
matt Dela monkeys. Go ahead, Hello?
Speaker 6: Hello?
Speaker 28: No, no, sorry? Hello?
Speaker 6: Can you hear me?
Speaker 15: Yes?
Speaker 6: What the fuck is that?
Speaker 15: That's me? Bro?
Speaker 6: Oh, you're making point of how I speak.
Speaker 15: I do impressions. I do them all the time.
Speaker 6: That's not very Christian, is Oh?
Speaker 15: Here we go? That's a pious of you to point
out how impressions are not Christian.
Speaker 6: That's not very christ like now, is it?
Speaker 17: Okay?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 8: Well, have you ever had a psychedelic experience?
Speaker 15: Oh, he's getting even even deeper. Were you praying while
you were on your psychedelic experience? Was it mystical?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 15: I mean, are you praying for me?
Speaker 17: Now?
Speaker 6: Well? You know, basically Hell is real? You know that, right?
Hell is real?
Speaker 15: Are you looking forward to me going there?
Speaker 6: No? You know that Tibetans are right. Basically reincarnations.
Speaker 15: Have an actual lunatic here.
Speaker 6: Do you know that?
Speaker 15: Good job, dude? It never fails that when the people
are super pious and they want to talk about you
christ like that, they're it's you got. The entertainment is
about the flow. Cost Listen, I'm having fun today. I
don't care. It's all good. The Tibetans are right. You
go to hell, but you get reincarnated. What am I
coming back as, hopefully as a banana teen emperor of
the Banana Empire? What's up?
Speaker 17: Man?
Speaker 15: I'm mute? Cost? Is you a BHR bro? I'm mute?
Speaker 6: You're here all right? Ju is it me?
Speaker 15: I'm I up? Yes, sir?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 9: Just a few questions I've only heard you one time.
Speaker 6: In another space.
Speaker 37: But what are your thoughts on uh, positive Christianity and
national socialism?
Speaker 15: Positive Christianity. I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 6: Okay, we could we could skip that. I could I
send you some links.
Speaker 38: It's essentially the type of Christianity that the National Socialist
wan attenstedt.
Speaker 15: Here we go, Here comes the Feds. Good job moving on,
Here come the Feds. I'm mute, dude, just kidding. Who
who's up next? We're on a roll here with quack
a doodles quack a doodle do. Okay, where's this bumpkin dude?
Because all he does is thumb down and it's like
clogging up my screen. So where are you wasting this?
You just wasting time? Dog, bumpkin? Are you gonna come
to date otherwise? Immediately you first out the block and
get rid of that other dude.
Speaker 39: Hey, Yet the start of the stream, he said that
a high taper faid was out of the style, A
high taper faid. Yes, And if you think that in
your orthodox I mean you're their best guy.
Speaker 6: So like, if you get.
Speaker 39: That wrong, how much else you gonna get wrong? Me
and my Protestant buddies. We got some high taper fates, so.
Speaker 15: I knew what would hit you below the belt and
raw you up.
Speaker 6: It was brutal. It was brutal.
Speaker 15: I mean, are you Are you sucking on I p
A right now too? Yes, sir, you guys come out
of a factory dog. Yes, what's what's on your mind?
Speaker 6: Oh? No, that does all I have to say. I
just wanted to do.
Speaker 15: That's all you had. I thought you were going to
come with some heat, dude.
Speaker 6: I mean I don't have that much heat. You know.
Speaker 15: It's like, well, if you keep drinking those I pas,
you will you can be sweating because you're going to
be a man boob, a big old man bob. But
we're on a roll today. Actually, that guy, I like
that guy. That was funny. What good grief? We got
like twenty three people. Now today is feral. We got
feral people on here. Who's up next? Max?
Speaker 6: There we go.
Speaker 15: You know, those feral days are the funnest because they're
the most entertaining to Jay.
Speaker 9: I swear you've been ignoring me for like the.
Speaker 15: Past hour, But it's because I'm scared. That's why I
have no no idea who you are you're a blank profile,
but I sensed that the blank profile would destroy me,
So I'm super scared of you.
Speaker 6: Actually, i'm scared of you.
Speaker 22: I've seen you debate people like Madala HUNTI and really
really smart atheist.
Speaker 6: Like.
Speaker 22: Pretty intimidating guy. But I'm not a Christian. I'm not
a Protestant or a Catholic. I'm an I'm an atheist agnostic,
and I actually have a verse that will either make
or break Christianity. And I post it in the chat
section of this space. If you want to click on
that button there and show.
Speaker 15: Your audience, why don't you just read it?
Speaker 9: Well, I think it'd be better if they could.
Speaker 6: All see it.
Speaker 15: What's the verse?
Speaker 9: Revelation sixteen twelve.
Speaker 15: All right, I'll pull it up here.
Speaker 22: We actually, I think it's Revelation six twelve. It's either
Revelation sixteen twelve or Revelation six twelve.
Speaker 9: The move to talks about the phrase river dry up.
Speaker 15: So you don't even know, but you're gonna bibble scholaris here.
Speaker 9: Well, no, I know, I know which.
Speaker 15: It's not six and it's not sixteen too, So you
don't even know the verses that you're gonna okay.
Speaker 28: It's sixteen, it's sixteen.
Speaker 6: No, it's sixteen twelve.
Speaker 15: Okay, or wasting everybody's time.
Speaker 22: No, no, no, And it says Andy six Angel Poorta
is vile upon the Gray Phraates and the water there
was dried up that way, that the way that the
Kings of the East might be prepared, And basically the
phrase river is predicted to dry up in twenty forty.
So if this doesn't happen, then Christianity will be confirmed.
Speaker 15: As a false throne. You're so stupid, dude. I can't
even handle like the idiocy of this. I don't believe
that this is a future prediction.
Speaker 6: What do you think it?
Speaker 15: No, it's revolution twenty seven thirty Heavan, Please don't call
in if your IQ is not above eighty, please just
spare us. I know people want entertainment, but Evan, Jay,
how's it going?
Speaker 38: Yep, No debates some questions, but just wanted to uh
tell you my thanks to my appreciation. I was chrismated
on theophony over the last week. So yeah, that's it.
Speaker 15: Hey, thank you appreciate it, man, Thank you many years
to you. Glad to hear that dog.
Speaker 17: Josie, Hello, mister Jason, how are you doing?
Speaker 6: Hello, mister Jason. You hear me?
Speaker 34: Yeah, I just have a question about this thing.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 9: It's the Trinity doesn't make any.
Speaker 6: Sense, all right?
Speaker 15: That was really funny, Albert, It is a Jamie said,
is a full moon? Ye, mercurys and mercury is in
retrogaate retrogade. It's in retrogade. Mercury is in retro gay. Hello,
I'm you dude. You've been You've been yapping on the mojis.
What's up?
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 28: Room?
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 14: Jay?
Speaker 6: What's up everybody?
Speaker 9: Since we're hitting up with the Bible coats.
Speaker 27: Matthew seventeen twenty, bye, blah blah blah, boring stuff.
Speaker 30: If you have faith, as the mustard seed, you will
say to this this mountain move from here to there,
and it will.
Speaker 27: Move and nothing will be impossible for you.
Speaker 30: I love the space, I love of what you're doing.
Speaker 6: Keep going on. Jesus is great.
Speaker 27: But always remember, in seventeen seventy six, when our beautiful
country was created, all actually were kicked out because we
don't want the role.
Speaker 15: Next, who is a protest of that disagrees has an
actual argument? Raise your hand? We got twenty two people.
Carlos abrils me badly got into spot bro.
Speaker 37: Okay, Jay, I have a quick question about canonicity for saints.
I felt like it was kind of strange that there
were some claims that the Rokor was saying that certain
people are canonized as saints when they shouldn't have been,
and that it was kind of propagated, or they'd be
considered martyrs.
Speaker 6: Fighting for Russia in an inappropriate way. I just didn't
really know what to make of that.
Speaker 15: I thought you were talking about the Romanov servants and
jon Hus. What do you mean fighting in an improper way?
I don't know what that means.
Speaker 37: Well, I've heard that the current patriarch has said that,
you know, people were active in the war in Ukraine
could be considered martyrs for the church and whatnot.
Speaker 15: I'm not exactly sure what he said. I mean, he
could have said that it might be a controversial statement
and there might be some people in real corps that
disagree with it, but also, I mean, defending your homeland
and dying for it could be considered a type of martyrroom.
Speaker 37: Okay, and I have one question related to Yakub.
Speaker 15: Everything about Yakuba is true.
Speaker 26: Okay, I heard theos ours were killed in a conspiracy
about Yakub.
Speaker 6: I know I'm just rolling, but.
Speaker 15: That's all right, But everything about Yakuba is true. So yes, yeah,
I think in the Orthodox Church, canonicity for saints or
being a saint is not It's not the same ideas
what Roman Catholics think. So Romancalis think that, like you did,
it's not just the miracles, but you have to live
a life of what they call heroic virtue and all
this kind of stuff. And then you know, the ghostbusters
in Rome investigate your case and they determine if there
really were three miracles based on your background or excuse me,
the intercessions and all this kind of stuff. But you'll
notice there's a lot of odd balls in the Orthodox
Church and history that have become saints, and a lot
of times the Orthodox Church, saintthood is often tied to
one significant noble thing that was done or act or
martyrdom or something like that. So not everybody who is
a saint Orthodox Church necessarily lived an immaculate lifetime of
saintly living. So there's a lot of kings who did
some odd things. Even Constantine is a saint Orthodox Church.
You didn't always do everything in a saintly way. And
there have been sainted kings and kings of Serbia and
other areas that are saints that didn't necessarily do an think.
I didn't even think the wro Oz, you know, lived
a saintly perfect life. But they were martyrs, and so
it's possible that a person who dies in the defense
of their homeland could be a martyr. But I doubt
that the patriarch was saying that everyone who dies in
war is a martyr. That that seems far fetched. But
I'm not sure what the exact statement is. And also,
I mean, if I'm not even sure what road course
position on that is, they might disagree. I don't know.
I mean, a patriarch can say things wrong. We're not papists, right,
we don't agree with everything that the patriarch costs Antonople says.
You know so, but I don't think that it's wrong,
or I do think it's virtuous to defend your homeland.
Isn't there that story too of in the Russo Japanese War,
there's a story of one of the Japanese bishops who
didn't want to be involved in the conflict. But he
still said that it was right for him to pray
for his people and the Japanese people in the unfortunate
situation that they were if they were going to war
against Russia. So there's a lot of things in history.
They're complex. There's not going to be these easy, you know,
like spurgatism, black and white, simple situations where they're all
the bad guys, wor Ald the good guys. Life is
very complex and it's not you're not always able to
fit everything into like a all or nothing scenario. Who
is up next? We're giving precedent to precedent, excuse me
to preference to Protestants today. If you're a prosident who disagrees,
you go to the headline, raise your hand. Is there
any Protestants in the chaw We got still twenty plus people?
All right, Steiger, and then we'll go to you. How
are you a Protestant when you got an icon as
your picture that I'm making Since, okay, Steiger, are you there?
Are you connecting?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 15: He tries to connect over just a couple of super jets.
How long we've been going for? Over two hours? Doesn't
we just started? What the heck, dude, Tom is we're
in some kind of time warp two hours. Dang, so
we just started this. Okay, Well he can't connect. I
don't know what his problem is, Stiger, you want to
try again, There's no, You're not connecting. Coffee cup, the doors,
the doors, three dollars, Sam Harris. Sam Harris signed your
Golden Girls paraphernalia in his closet. Absolutely, go ahead.
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 15: Coffee cup?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 31: So does the Eastern or our church thing that Saint
Augustine is a saint?
Speaker 15: Yes, he's called a saint of the Fifth acta medical council.
Speaker 6: Okay? Did he old heresies?
Speaker 15: He held to errors? An error is not necessarily heresy.
Every church father, in some way has some error that
doesn't make them all heretics.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 31: So the philioque absolute divine simplicity or in heresies.
Speaker 15: A heresy is something that's declared to heresy by the
church eventually in a council. Augustine didn't believe anything erroneous
at his time that he knew was a heresy. So
i philioque is not condemned until the Middle Ages.
Speaker 31: Okay, so before the nice and kind of the Nicean Council.
If someone held that Jesus was in God or go
substantial with the Father, then they were in heretics, right according.
Speaker 15: To that law. No, no, because some errors are significant
enough that the person that holds them. It's the attitude
that they have and the humility that they have. So,
for example, when Augustine writes on the Trinity, he says
in book three, I am speculating, and I give these
books to the judgment of the universal Church, and if
there's anything wrong in them, they can be rejected. So
that's the attitude of humility that for example, Origin didn't have.
Origin was obstinate to the end of his life in
his heresies, and he did not submit to the judgment
of the Church, whereas Augustine did. So Augustine's humility is
what covers the theological speculations and mistakes that he had,
whereas for the people that you're talking about, it's different.
Speaker 6: Okay, gotcha?
Speaker 31: Was He later corrected though, by other bishops and other theologians.
Speaker 15: If he hands his book to the Church for judgment,
and that doesn't mean that it happens overnight, if the
Church doesn't in his lifetime judge it, but the Church
judges by the time of the Fifth Ecumenical Council that
he's a saint. And by the way, do you know
what book the Fifth Ecumenical Council lists as his pre
eminent theological work. No, okay, it's none of those books.
It's against the Manicheans, so it's not on the Trinity,
or of God or any of these other works.
Speaker 6: Okay, gotcha, that was my question. Thank you. Right.
Speaker 15: So, heresy is a sin of will and obstinacy, not
just a sin of mistake or error. And not even
Roman Catholics believe that he got everything right. They think
he made all kinds of theological mistakes, which would mean
that Roman Catholicism is false if that's the criteria, Because
Augustine taught a pretty strict doctrine predestination that the Roman
cally Church eventually doesn't adhere to. So if that's the case,
then in the Roman Catholic system, he's also a heretic.
But pretty much everybody has a degree of flexibility for
saints in the church, because no saint got everything as
an individual saint correct. Many of them got all kinds
of things wrong. Many of them got the canon of
scripture wrong, and that's an important thing. But it doesn't
make them all heretics because they made a mistake. Making
mistake is not the essence of a heresy. Obstinacy and
pride is the essence of heresy. I forgot who the
next guy was. Who's the next Protestant that wants to
come on here? There's eighteen people and none of you
are Protestant. I don't understand. It's Protestant debate day and
there's okay, here we go. Thomas, Thomas the Lama.
Speaker 6: Hey, what's up?
Speaker 36: Just had a couple of questions, like about Eastern Orthodox relationships.
Speaker 6: I guess to the Reforms.
Speaker 36: Okay, so I guess for starters, the main condemnation of
the Reformed would be their relationship to Roman Catholicism.
Speaker 15: Correct, the Orthodox condemnation of the Reformed would be the
relation to Roman Catholicism. I don't know even know what
that means, Like.
Speaker 6: I suppose I can qualify the question.
Speaker 36: So the Reformed are going to try to make some
claim about their Apostolic succession, at least the High Reform right,
and they're going to trace that through Roman Catholicism. They're
not going to trace it through like either the East split.
Speaker 15: I've never heard of a Reform person who believes in
apostolic succession, so I don't even know what that means.
Speaker 36: Oh interesting, all right, maybe this is some niche view,
I guess the second question.
Speaker 15: I mean, maybe an Anglican Calvinist, High Church Anglican Calvinists
would try to claim that's the only.
Speaker 36: I mean, yeah, yeah, I've heard that from High Church
Anglicans through Reformed Anglicans even, but I've heard it from
like OPC guys, right, Orthodox Presbyterians.
Speaker 15: No, I mean, well, I mean, if they want to
redefine what the word appstock succession means, then that's what
they're doing, because there's no Protestants who are classical Reformation
Protestants that believe that there's a transmission of the gift
of the Holy Spirit in the laying on of hands.
Speaker 36: Kind of in the same way that a Lutheran is
going to argue for the historicity and apolasticity of the
Lutheran Church.
Speaker 15: But that's not what I just said, right.
Speaker 6: No, I'm recognizing the distinction.
Speaker 15: Then it's not apostolic session. It's redefining the terms to
make Protestantism and continuity with some made up traditions, just
like they do the same thing with Niceno constant Politan
cree where says one Holy Catholic Apostolic and they redefine
that to men the invisible Church.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'll just can side that it's like redefining. No
problem there.
Speaker 36: So the second question would be I've seen maybe I
obviously need to read more about Eastern Orthodox resources on
the sovereignty of God, but it seems to me that
like certain historic views within the Eastern Orthodox can be
consistent with like maybe four point or three point five,
you know, tool of affirming Calvinists.
Speaker 6: Do you agree or disagree? No?
Speaker 36: Okay, which of the points? Like, do you flat out
reject all of them? Fair enough? All right, I'm not
gonna take up too much time. If you ever want
to have like a formal debate, I d M.
Speaker 6: Do you? So? Thanks for the space?
Speaker 15: Well how about right now?
Speaker 36: No, I'm not good enough at this. I have other
people that I can talk to here or link you with. Again,
I mean, what their names?
Speaker 15: Is it? Somebody with an audience over a few hundred followers?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 6: Yeah, a couple of them. Jonathan Speaks would.
Speaker 32: Be one of them.
Speaker 15: And how big is his audience.
Speaker 36: I'd probably guess around five six hundred.
Speaker 15: Now, thanks, thanks for your time again. The Twitter spaces
are for four or five hundred two three five thousand.
I'm not doing any formal debates unless you have a
large following. I didn't work my butt off debating one
thousand goobers to debate all the top atheists and Muslims
to spend all my time debating a bunch of five
hundred follower people who want to chase clout and grow
their audience. So that's why you get the Twitter space,
and they don't come here because all they want is
a big audience.
Speaker 17: Jud Are you there?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I can hear you. It's real quiet. Can you
hear me?
Speaker 15: Yeah?
Speaker 40: Hey, I don't know why your volume is super long
on my phone, but I'm here, Okay.
Speaker 6: I had a question for you. So I'm a Protestant, I'm.
Speaker 40: An Evangelical and I've been inquiring into Orthodoxy and it's
really fascinating stuff.
Speaker 6: I'm trying to learn as much as I can.
Speaker 40: The thing that I am having a hard time really
understanding is your guys view on Christ's sacrifice and it
comes to the shedding of blood and the old Testament
sacrificial system. You know, that's really deeply ingrained and Protestant
view of salvation.
Speaker 15: And literally, so what I'm gonna say is, I'm gonna
what I'm gonna say is go watch the video Protestant
Penal Substitution Jay Dyer. We've literally covered this probably five
hundred times. It comes up in every open space. So
if you look at my clips channel, you'll find multiple
things on PSA. I try to be rude, I'm just like,
I mean, it's like probably a thousand times we've responded
to that. Go ahead, yep.
Speaker 41: Hey, so also Protestant here, very disgruntled Protestant.
Speaker 6: I would like to go East Orthodoxy.
Speaker 41: But my wife has voiced some concerns about y'all's mariology
of Holy the Togos, and do y'all see her as
totally sinless, like she has never sinned once.
Speaker 6: In her life?
Speaker 41: Or is that she is the most pure, most blessed,
and and like I get all that part, but do
y'all can make the contention that she's never sinned.
Speaker 15: Her, Yeah, she's a spatless virgin and God's grace preserved
her from.
Speaker 41: Sinning, and so that would be a stumbling block for
my wife is that she would not be comfortable saying
that Mary only Tokos is sinless. She would say that
she's not pure, if that's fine, but she would have
the issue of making the jumpsy sinless.
Speaker 6: What do you what do you recommend?
Speaker 15: Just a little bit of a reminder. I'm going to
be live at the Tampa Bay Screams Horror Convention. This
is a decent sized convention with a rowdy troop of
rascally b movie actors and others who will be there
as well. I will be giving a lecture that evening,
a dinner lecture that is separate from the convention, but
we will also be at the convention and I will
be presenting the Dark Secrets of Horror Films present. So
join me tonight that night, excuse me, January nineteenth, in
Tampa Bay. Get your tickets below this audio. In the
show description, you'll see the links to head and over
to the checkout. And it's going to be a lot
of fun. The first thirty people, I think it's almost full,
already have their free copy of Esoteric Hollywood reserved for them,
and of course they'll be signed copies and other things
like that as well as the other books. So get
your tickets now. January nineteenth, that's eleven days the Tampa
Bay Screams Horror Convention