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Speaker 1: Ah, I got married to a fuck pop whoa, we

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got ready, come joint in the subway shop for.

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Speaker 2: I'm married to uncle Pap.

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Speaker 3: Whoa by imaging man Rosie.

5
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Speaker 4: Come to me through to hoo like the stick patch

6
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on the duke.

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Speaker 5: Whoa, whoa open.

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Speaker 3: Ready joint to see the subway shop over. We got

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ready for the s sway shop for.

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Speaker 6: M h.

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Speaker 7: Oh, I'm married to a phone.

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Speaker 8: Go pop.

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Speaker 2: We got ready.

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Speaker 7: We got joined in a subway shop. Right, there's a

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man no roads. They come to me through the two

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night I missen man rods. They come to me through

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this Heatoo bunco.

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Speaker 8: Phone.

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Speaker 4: Whoa bunk.

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Speaker 6: Bunk?

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Speaker 4: Oh, whoa, I got married. I got married to my phone,

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Go papo.

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Speaker 6: We got ready.

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Speaker 4: We got joined in a subway shop.

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Speaker 5: Will go phone call love, phone call love, I.

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Speaker 2: May be to my phone. Do we got wedded, Come

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join in a subway shop.

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Speaker 4: Oh who, I'm lippy.

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Speaker 5: Married to a funk.

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Speaker 9: Go bo.

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Speaker 2: We got joined according to the subway shop Boo.

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Speaker 5: A minute and biscuits.

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Speaker 2: Some minerals to come and be do it to the

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holy man watching on the two.

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Speaker 10: Whoa, oh, I'm mab me too my phono.

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Speaker 11: We got readed we got joined in the subway shopping boy,

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the mats and minerals.

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Speaker 2: I come to middle of it too, the man in minerals.

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They're coming into this year too.

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Speaker 4: Whoo ohone, I got married.

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Speaker 2: I got married to.

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Speaker 12: My funk go Bob.

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Speaker 2: We got wedded. We got joined in the subway shop.

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Speaker 13: Until the monkey you find off in that tree?

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Speaker 2: What you doing up there?

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Speaker 6: Why you stand?

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Speaker 5: Why you run it from the red bad you ran

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from then trew and from me.

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Speaker 13: Until the monkeys like their female monkeys with them Bananna's

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between the trees hanging down upside down.

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Speaker 5: That's a smile.

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Speaker 13: Side And tell the monkey.

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Speaker 6: What you doing to me?

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Speaker 2: Till until a monkey, till the.

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Speaker 14: Mackyn till the mody.

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Speaker 6: What's it doing it to me?

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Speaker 4: Till a tiller?

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Speaker 8: Mom Moday.

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Speaker 5: Till mom fucking Jamie? Could you make me?

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Speaker 6: I express?

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Speaker 5: So okay, we're gonna open it up.

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Speaker 15: Let's keep it.

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Speaker 5: One plus one plus one equal three.

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Speaker 11: Icons are Adala tree, j J but Jay can I talk?

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Speaker 15: But it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Next, Cathodra, God is real wife? Does he allow evil?

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Speaker 5: Why do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men?

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It's a no brainer.

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Speaker 2: You're such a tyrannical rainer.

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Speaker 13: Is this your first time on the web changer, Joe?

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Speaker 2: Can't take these loads your slow boys?

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Speaker 4: Is this your first time on the shame changer?

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Speaker 5: Joe?

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Speaker 2: Was that a creator foot part?

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Speaker 15: M dude?

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Speaker 6: Stop repeating my name?

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Speaker 15: Dude?

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Speaker 9: You goober's callin or I'll boot you.

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Speaker 2: Where did we get the Bible from? Have you read

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the Canons of Franzia?

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Speaker 16: What are you Catholic?

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Speaker 15: Are you promisonans?

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Speaker 11: I'm not trying to be me, but do you have

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an actual argument?

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Speaker 2: There is only one church?

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Speaker 5: You are in a cult, You're.

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Speaker 2: A goblin, a demon, a boomer?

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Speaker 17: Quick question?

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Speaker 11: Do we have any diddyback venerators in the chat?

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Speaker 2: Is this your first time on.

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Speaker 5: Chan't take these loads here? Slow boys? Are you?

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Speaker 8: Is this your first time on bean where?

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Speaker 13: If you're a wine in front.

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Speaker 8: Of the line, I'm mute, dude, what.

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Speaker 6: Is yours stemic justification?

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Speaker 2: That argument is circular and you are refuted?

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Speaker 6: Is this your first.

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Speaker 5: Time on the wereh?

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Speaker 15: I needed you? Oh? What better song to kick it

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off with when debating Protestants than nineteen ninety three electronic

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and dance music straight from the dance hall Twitter. I

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want to see you up.

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Speaker 18: There's only one thing they can bring them a together

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that begins with you.

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Speaker 15: But where it begins with you, not you. I'm gonna

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tell you what word is Usury.

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Speaker 18: On the dance floor.

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Speaker 15: Baker. Shut that app up, fakery on the part of

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flour baker.

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Speaker 19: Make the people super poor or rep middle class bakers.

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Speaker 20: Shake that ass all right, welcome everybody.

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Speaker 15: I wanted to play that song last time, but I

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didn't get to it. I got coffee in my mouth.

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I make my coffee so strong that the coffee grounds

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are drowning in it, being like, get me out of here.

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This coffee is too strong. I'm a coffee ground and

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it's too strong. Shout out to my girls, the Dark

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Triad right there. Jamie bought me a Golden Girl's cup.

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I don't know why. I just she just thought it

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was funny. I think because there was an inside joke

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many years ago on a debate with an atheist where

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I said if the atheist debeated defeated me, I would

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give him an autograph golden Girls shirt, and they didn't

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think I actually had one, but I had one. The autograph, though,

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was not from be Arthur or any of the Golden Girls.

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It was me a Golden Girls shirt. So let that

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blow your mind for a moment. All right, what's up?

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Welcome everybody. We got a nice little warm balmy chat today,

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a bunch of chad nerds in the audience. Now, this week,

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I don't know what happened. I'm guessing it's because people

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are leaving Protestantism. I mean, that's my guess. I don't

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know why this screen doesn't.

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Speaker 17: Want to work.

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Speaker 15: The Protestants got all feisty this week. The Calvinists got

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all feisty on Twitter. They were just they were just sasty.

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They got a little bit of a sass in their

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walk this week, more than normal. And there's several things

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going on in the evangelical Protestant world. One of those

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things is the idea of recovering lost masculinity. Lost masculinity,

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How do we get more masculine? Bro, We got to

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compete with the Muslims, supposedly, and they're having kids and

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they're doing their thing. They're crazy cult things. So we

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got to get more masculine, and so they come up

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with these conferences. I guess Christ is king.

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Speaker 3: WHOA.

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Speaker 15: Now I made a joke and my joke was intended

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to prod and goad them a bit to get somebody

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to come to debate. But I should have realized that

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it's the same with the Roman Catholics. If you make

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a joke like this and you try to prod them,

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they turn that into a piety signaling thing to where

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you're not worth talking to because you made this joke.

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Now they can spend all week blasting Orthodoxy as idolators, traders,

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anti American, literally, on and on and on, Russian KGB

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agents and the slightest pushback joke back, Oh oh, look

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how un.

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Speaker 19: Christ like he is. This man is on christ Like.

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He's not like John MacArthur. John MacArthur calls up people

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who like Trump and say cush words. Trump said the

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P word, and we're not holy, we are holier than vowel. Now,

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I said, these are a bunch of pasty tubby I

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pa men referring back to my ip A video a

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year or six months ago, and I stand my mamat desist.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 15: I don't know or in McIntyre people say, oh, he's

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a cool dude from Glenn Beeck's show. That's entirely possible.

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It's entirely possible. All of these dudes are cool dudes.

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I don't even know who they are. I did recognize

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later on that, oh that's Calvin Robinson without an afro,

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so I didn't even realize that was him. I just

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thought that was like a like an arcle, like a

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nerdy black dude up in there, just being an earth.

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Speaker 21: A theological article Laura.

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Speaker 15: Toment something like that. But I'm just kidding. Oh, he

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went too far with that one. He went too far

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with that one.

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Speaker 22: Bro.

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Speaker 15: Now again, Now this dude on the end over here,

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he looks like he was cut from the village people

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with that big old mustache and weird tubby. Look. The

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next dude we had multiple dms. I thought he was

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gonna come to bait multiple times. I will take you

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up all that, sir. The next guy over trying to

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have an orthodox beard, but the high top fade. I

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don't know if y' all know that's out of style

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like five years ago. But what can we expect from Calvinists.

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Maybe these aren't all Calvinists. I don't even know. And

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why are they end up giant polo trash? I'm confused.

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Is that supposed to signify the spiritual track. I don't

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know what this means. Now, Wait, are these not the

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same dudes? Underneath those dudes? So we got the varsity

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team and then the backup Calvinists. Is that what that is?

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I'm joking. I don't even know. It's just to me,

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it's funny just say that they're all like pasty tubby Calvinists,

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when one, two, three, four of them are tubby and

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pasty and the other ones are not. Anyway, I can

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smell the beard oil coming off of this infographic here.

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But I don't have a lot of respect for Calvinists.

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I used to be a Calvinist many years ago, and

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I know that world as well. I haven't been in

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that world in many, many years, so I don't really

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think much about it. But I just thought it was

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funny that multiple Protestants Calvinists this week just chiming in

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on how bad Orthodox he is, how bad we are,

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idolators the worst. And then I put up one comment

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and it's, oh, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 23: Look at the way this man speaks. Look at the

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way this man speaks. He does not have the spirit

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of Christ. There's no way he could speak in such ways.

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Worry you ain't true regenerate born again Christian, but speaking

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in such ways proves he's not Christian? Or were you

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predestined to have man boobs? Were you predestined.

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Speaker 15: To have tubby flannel man boob ipa aesthetics and drip?

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The only thing dripping on your drip is the sweat

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because y'all has a bunch of tubbies, a bunch of teletubbies,

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a bunch of five point tulip Calvinist teletubbies on the entranets. Anyway,

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this is the next generation of like the Doug Wilson's

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who also is a giant tubby man. Seeing how they're

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all tubby? Do Protestants not know how to eat?

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Speaker 6: Do they?

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Speaker 15: I don't understand. They don't go to the gym, They

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don't understand, Like what it's it's not hard to not

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be tubby, especially in the days of the Internet, where

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we can figure out how to eat. I can understand

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twenty years ago we didn't know about diets, that we

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didn't know about high fromptose, current storp and all this junk.

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But anyway, yes, I'm making jokes. I think these people

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are kind of worthy of making jokes. Now again, now

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this we Bon guy, Webo whatever is Joel Webo. I

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thought that was like a Japanese dude that married his

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pillow a Webo or something. Joel Webo we Bon. He

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was the loudest of these guys, and he said that

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Protestantism is true because of patriotism in the West and

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all that kind of stuff, which are really is some

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of the stupidest arguments imaginable, because how does the West?

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What does that even mean? The West was Roman Catholic

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prior to being Protestant, so is the West Roman Catholic?

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I mean, this is so stupid, right, like, what are

239
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you talking about? Well, these guys really treat the Founding

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Fathers as they're Church fathers. That's how Protestant Presonism operates

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in theory. And that's why I thought this was a funny.

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I wish that Grock had done a better picture. Where's

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my grog picture of the found Yeah, here we go.

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This is the Founding Fathers with the magical powdered wig

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powder drafting the inerrant inspired Constitution. Do you see that?

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And if you notice, if you look at if you

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zoom in real close, if you were to pat those wigs,

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you would get some of that magical powdered wig dust.

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That's the source of how those documents were inspired. And

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that's why Saint Benjamin Franklin, who happened to be a

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Atanist and a member of the Health Fire Club, still

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a Protestant founding church father and Saint I'm joking, by

253
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the way, I'm just trying to prod the Protestants to

254
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get it. I'm prodding the Protestants. Not in a gayway, though,

255
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although these guys might like that. I don't sell. All

256
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these guys look look like they might be on the

257
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other team, battan on the other team. I don't know.

258
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I don't know. Now. I understand wes Houff is not

259
00:20:26,839 --> 00:20:29,039
going to do a debate, but I did want it

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out there that I would love to debate wes Hoff.

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I would happy, be happy to debate any of these

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Protestant pastors. I have zero fear of any of these people. Now,

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one psycho Protestant guy who did a debate recently, who

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has literally like a few thousand followers he wants to debate.

265
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I don't want to debate that guy because he's literally

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just a psycho. I tried to get him to debate

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years ago, he wouldn't do it. Now he wants to

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debate because he's trying to build clout. So not every

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person I don't debate is because of some sort of

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fear or something like that. I didn't even extend an

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offer to that guy. Recently, I'm talking about all of

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these Protestants over here. I mean, I don't even know

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what it meant. Like there was a dude literally saying

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that if you are against Protestantism, you're anti white and

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you're a communist, just like the most wow, stupid thing

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I've ever heard, Like, what the hell are you talking about?

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And then the other people are saying that, oh, I'm

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not actually going to debate into these people. I'm just

279
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putting out challenges. I'm like, what the heck are you

280
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talking about? Dude. It's like, I mean, I'm not trying

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00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,799
to be arrogant, but I've been debating people publicly since

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twenty seventeen, so that's nine years of public debates with

283
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countless public figures, countless atheists and Muslims, and these people

284
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act like I'm just some rando that's never debated anybody.

285
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It's like it's kind of unbelievable. Really. Now, when it

286
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comes to James White or any of these people, there's

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00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:09,079
a pattern of they make miss they make statements that

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they will not debate me, and they have a list

289
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,680
in litany of reasons as to why. First of all,

290
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White has said for years he doesn't have time to

291
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study orthodoxy, he's not interested in that debate. Also on

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me personally, my channel is too weird and there's too

293
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many geopolitical conspiracy topics. I don't know what that would

294
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have to do with whether you would debate or not.

295
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But to me, those are all just excuses, and they're

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really no different than the other excuses that the Roman

297
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Catholics have used. Which is now, notice this is a

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pattern of what people do. Then we're gonna open up

299
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just a second. But I want to keep calling attention

300
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:46,839
to this because I've seen so many people do this,

301
00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:52,160
and it's so transparent. Once you see it, they throw

302
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:58,519
out all kinds of attacks, prods, jokes, ribbing. The minute

303
00:22:58,519 --> 00:23:02,000
you respond, there's suddenly a victim. You should have never

304
00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:05,079
responded to them because they're a small profile with no attention.

305
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,720
Why are you bullying me? Why are you even responding

306
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:12,400
to me? How dare you reply to my attacks? You're

307
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,039
so mean and it's so you're so irreverent and on

308
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,079
christ like. When they literally said like the worst stuff imaginable,

309
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,839
that to me is the most slimy behavior ever. Now,

310
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:26,160
one of these guys, this easily guy who is over

311
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,279
here literally every day tweeting about Orthodoxy for the last

312
00:23:29,319 --> 00:23:33,839
few weeks, he says, Oh, yeah, let's have a chat.

313
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,640
I'd love to come on and we can have a conversation,

314
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not a debate. I told him politely in the DMS, Hey,

315
00:23:38,519 --> 00:23:40,000
I'm happy to do that. We don't have to have

316
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,359
a debate. You're always walking to have a conversation if

317
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,799
that's what you'd like. Well, today he comes back and says, oh,

318
00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:48,319
I saw some clips of you on the internet and

319
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:52,839
you called a guy a name three years ago. Maybe

320
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,279
the guy who called in deserved to be called a name. No,

321
00:23:55,599 --> 00:23:58,720
but you called the guy a name. Therefore you're not

322
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,839
christ Like. I'm not going to interact with you. This

323
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,920
is why you goobers have a crisis of masculinity. Is effeminate,

324
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,319
and you're passive aggressive, and anytime somebody calls you out

325
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,000
on a week plus of going after us to step

326
00:24:14,079 --> 00:24:16,759
up to the plate and defend your positions, and then

327
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:20,680
you cower hiding behind the fact that I once said

328
00:24:20,759 --> 00:24:24,400
a quote mean thing three years ago. That's your crisis

329
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,200
of masculinity, is that you're a coward. You're a giant VAJAYJ.

330
00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:35,680
I'm the only giant VJJ that's allowed to be on here. Okay,

331
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,920
are we clear now, I'm just being silly. I'm having fun. Relax,

332
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:44,799
chill up. But look, we had a PhD guy the

333
00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:49,279
other day this He says, I'm a Calvinist from Bulgaria

334
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:53,119
and I know the truth of orthodoxy, and I would

335
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,480
never debate you accepting written form written for him. Are

336
00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:00,160
you joking? This is not two thousand and seven, Not

337
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,079
on Zanga, dude, We're not on word Press. Is twenty

338
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,839
twenty four. Ward Dollar people have YouTube debates and video

339
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,079
It's like, what are you talking about? A written debate? Like,

340
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,720
I'm gonna sit there. And by the way, some multiple people,

341
00:25:15,759 --> 00:25:18,119
including FDA and others were calling that out. He just

342
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,599
wants a written debate so he can rely on grock

343
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,000
and chat GPT. You can't get away with that in

344
00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:31,680
a actual classical formal debate. But it's a trick, and

345
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,119
people are figuring that out. You got people saying, I'm

346
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,640
a length, I'm a scholar, I'm an expert in these

347
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,160
fields when they're like twenty and they don't have a

348
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,440
college degree and they're literally going and putting everything into

349
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,880
chat GPT. And then this other guy maybe he maybe

350
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:51,400
maybe he is a PhD. Now, if you're a PhD,

351
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,039
wouldn't it be easy for you to come and demolish me?

352
00:25:54,319 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 18: I mean, that's due, said this bud News commudian. Well

353
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,960
it could crush him and do sick good to debate.

354
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,000
Oh Bulgarrial Gulvinus. There's five of us and all the Bulgiria.

355
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,880
It's the true church. Clearly, Uh no, won't come. Now,

356
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,799
we got this other dude right here. Look at this guy.

357
00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:14,559
Speaker 15: He just wants to call us names. No wonder, we

358
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:18,400
don't want to debate him. Sola Chad. Now, if you're

359
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,799
a chad man, he's this is more more than more

360
00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:26,559
like a fed profile. He puts a dang ai gun

361
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:34,440
and a Bible, but he won't come to bate. He's

362
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,039
over here posting r C Sproler. He's over there sipping

363
00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:41,559
on r C Sproler, getting drunk. The rc sprol is

364
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,119
like the He's like the Colombo of Calvinism. No, what

365
00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:47,440
why was that again?

366
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,039
Speaker 6: Now?

367
00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 24: Did you say told again? Run that back for me,

368
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,759
because I'm rc Sproller. Take a take a drink on

369
00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:58,839
my drip, get drunk on by Calvinism.

370
00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 15: Did these Calvinists won't last ten minutes in a debate.

371
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:08,319
I guarantee you I know inside and out Calvinism. So

372
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:11,240
I hope that you guys will step up. It's open

373
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,319
for him. I'm a comedy. I'm a clown, dude. I

374
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,519
even put in my profile clown. Look at that right there,

375
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:21,000
writer for Sam Hide Show. Comedian Officially, now I can

376
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:29,039
officially call it. I appropriated that title in deception because

377
00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:31,599
I didn't actually have any proof that I was a

378
00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:35,240
comedian except for being on The Tucker Show for ten

379
00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:39,200
minutes being a quote comedian. So the joke was that

380
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,759
I called myself a comedian, but I didn't really have

381
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:43,519
any proof of that.

382
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,559
Speaker 12: But in today's world, you can just call yourself whatever

383
00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:52,720
you want. You can manifest it. So I manifested myself

384
00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:55,880
as a comedian. Then Sam Hide hired me, So let

385
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,440
that blow your mind. That's proof of manifestation, dog, how

386
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,079
do you prove manifestation? I got the one ring. Look

387
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,720
at that, that's Frodo's one ring right there. The one

388
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:13,240
ring doesn't just make you invisible, it also manifests your dreams.

389
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,079
I manifested this, so.

390
00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:19,799
Speaker 15: Now I actually do have cred. Now why do I

391
00:28:19,839 --> 00:28:23,039
say all that? Because if I'm an idiot comedian man,

392
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,720
it should be nothing for any of these smart boomer

393
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:30,200
theology men and gen X's theology man. They should be

394
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,480
able to just pop on here and demolish me in

395
00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:37,160
two seconds, make me look stupid, eh, wouldn't it be? Yeah,

396
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,119
name it claiming. That's what I'm talking about. I was

397
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,839
following Kenneth Copeland when y'all were still in your diapers.

398
00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:47,039
Why do y'all still in diapers? Especially these tubby oap

399
00:28:47,119 --> 00:28:50,960
men over here, This Joe Webon over at Webo married

400
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,920
to his nip on pillow or whatever the heck that

401
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:58,000
means over there in a dang diaper. I'm just kidding.

402
00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:01,640
Think an need of these people want a debate? Yeah,

403
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,920
I read Paul Kalo. I figured out this is the secret.

404
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,319
I got the one ring. I manifested my dreams. Bro,

405
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,359
I manifest, I said, Sam Hyde is gonna want me

406
00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:17,440
as a comedy man dreams manifested right there? Look at that.

407
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:25,200
How is Calvinism true if I manifested all that? Anyway,

408
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,640
I'm being silly. I can't help it.

409
00:29:28,119 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 6: Uh.

410
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 15: But by the way, I do have a pretty intense

411
00:29:31,799 --> 00:29:35,480
dislike for Calvinism, and I can say that as a

412
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,000
person who was a Calvinist. I was at bonson seminary.

413
00:29:39,119 --> 00:29:42,200
So today we're going to open it up. Hopefully we

414
00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:47,400
get some some Protestants and some Calvinists over here. You know,

415
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,920
as I think back over the last several years, we've

416
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,119
had a lot of Roman Catholic debates. Well, where's all

417
00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:57,799
the Protestants. Let's see, who was the last Protestant I

418
00:29:57,839 --> 00:30:01,359
remember debating? Was Dale the Protestant together with doctor bow Brands.

419
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,119
Remember that debate? Dale got so mad that he's still

420
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:12,039
attacking Orthodoxy all the time. No, no, I can't. Well, right

421
00:30:12,079 --> 00:30:13,880
around that time, I take that back, was the Redeem

422
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,599
Zoomer debate. But the Redeemed Zoomer debate broke. Redeem Zoomer

423
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,400
literally broke that dude. He has been angry tweeting about

424
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,960
Orthodoxy ever since, and he actually said I'm quitting. Too

425
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:33,319
many people are converting Orthodoxy. Now look, I just am

426
00:30:33,359 --> 00:30:36,960
about to post that on Twitter. By the way, that

427
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:42,799
Redeem Zoomer debates about to go up, because every time

428
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:44,720
you do a debate with a Calvinist, it's just like

429
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,559
the Protestants, I mean the Muslims.

430
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 17: Same thing.

431
00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 15: Protestants, Muslims, same thing.

432
00:30:49,559 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 21: When you do a debate with them, they're like, well,

433
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,839
you didn't debate the real Calvinist. You debated this young

434
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,759
man who's basically a child on the untrodout. He's only

435
00:30:59,799 --> 00:31:01,480
tw he loved or whatever he is.

436
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 15: Yes, I know there's always the hidden e mom of

437
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,599
the Calvinist that's out there that you haven't yet debated

438
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,200
because you're running from the hidden mom. Nobody knows who

439
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,759
the hidden mom is, but you're running from him because

440
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,119
you won't debate the real Muslim scholar, just like you

441
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:25,319
won't debate the real Protestant scholar. All right anyway, and

442
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,720
not being silly, Oh yeah, Pastor P. Pastor P was

443
00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:33,279
like a year ago though, But I guess it's all

444
00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:36,200
coming up till about a year where Redeem Zuomer and

445
00:31:38,079 --> 00:31:43,279
who's the other Protestant I forget his name anyway, I

446
00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:46,240
don't remember who the other Protestants were. But look, we're

447
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,920
about to get busy. It's about to open up, right,

448
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,880
It's about to open up and get busy. Jamie's not here.

449
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,599
So I got a giant jug. I got a sipping

450
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,279
jug of coffee, so nobody can stop me. You will

451
00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:04,680
not make me angry. I will continue to operate in

452
00:32:04,759 --> 00:32:07,759
love because I have my ginger chewes, which will keep

453
00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:11,359
my the demon, the beat us demon down. There will

454
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,160
not be diabet us anger, and that demon will not

455
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,720
possess me. So all of y'all can't copy and paste

456
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,680
from Sam Shimun and say that I'm manifesting my demons

457
00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:25,240
or whatever. How are you going to do that? I

458
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:27,759
got the sacrament of gender Jews right here. Also got

459
00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:30,880
to back up the bananas. But that is not for debating.

460
00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:35,519
That's for calling in Matt delahunkey, Dela monkey. When I

461
00:32:35,599 --> 00:32:37,920
when I'm starting to lose and I gotta rely on

462
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,839
a uh seasoned rage quitter, I'll call up on the.

463
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 25: Banana phone, Matt Dola monkey, Matt Dela monkey. You climbed

464
00:32:47,759 --> 00:32:52,559
up in that tree? What you're doing up there? Are

465
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:56,759
you scared. Why are you running from every deep bay?

466
00:32:57,039 --> 00:32:57,359
Speaker 6: Hey?

467
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:05,279
Speaker 15: You ran from and and from me, So don't piss

468
00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:07,799
me off. I'll get on that banana phone.

469
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 25: And by the way, that banana phone has your mom's

470
00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:11,599
number on speed dial.

471
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:25,559
Speaker 15: That's the zigger. Laugh, don't be racist. This phone, this

472
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,680
phone right here calls directly to Matt Dela monkey, your mom,

473
00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:35,680
and Mohammed. Hey, jab, there was a there was a

474
00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:41,000
Calvinist saying that I'm I'm the orthodox Mohammed a job

475
00:33:41,039 --> 00:33:43,519
because I don't really debate anybody. I just throw out

476
00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:49,240
the debate me excuse okay, dude, yeah sure, even though

477
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,839
that's totally backwards. As a reminder, Mohammed h a job

478
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,119
when I asked him to debate after this, take them back.

479
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,359
This is right before, no, this is after no, this

480
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,720
is right before I forget when okay, three to five

481
00:34:06,759 --> 00:34:11,039
million views on our debate. But you are not popular enough,

482
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:13,000
mister DIYer.

483
00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:15,679
Speaker 23: As you can see for my Twitter, four people challenge

484
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,039
me to debate my team his team.

485
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,599
Speaker 15: Does he actually have a team or is that like

486
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:26,519
Sneako and two other goobers our team review. You do

487
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:30,679
not generate numbers. You only have a four hundred thousand

488
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:36,480
views on Big Video. I am not closing door. Figure out.

489
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,639
I wait to become more popular. So he mean, girl me,

490
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:45,920
I'm not allowed at the popular table. Even though even

491
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,199
though our debate was originally the biggest debate of last year.

492
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,360
I would say maybe because of the Joe Rogan thing,

493
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,840
that the Wes Huff Billy Corson debate has surpassed it,

494
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,599
because now everybody's talked about that debate. But it's the

495
00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:03,360
second biggest debate of last year. But now I'm not

496
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,239
popular enough, even though we just had twenty million impressions

497
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,400
on last Friday's Alex Jones show. Now, don't make the cut, dude,

498
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,000
don't make the cut. Now. I know mohammedhed Job knows

499
00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:19,000
about being suppressed in shadow band too, which my channel

500
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:24,679
was demonetized in twenty eighteen, so that might have something

501
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,239
to do with it too, But no, no, that doesn't

502
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:33,119
exist in my case. You see. Anyway, Mohammed had Job

503
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,840
knows way better. He knows better than to pick one

504
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,239
of his goobers to debate with me and Sam because

505
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,880
that would go nowhere. So of course he's not gonna

506
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,519
do that, and we knew he wouldn't do it, but

507
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:52,800
it's time to open it up. If you want to

508
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,679
support the stream via super chest, thank you to the

509
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,199
people who've already super chatted. You can do that right here.

510
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,480
I'm hoping to get Protestants. If we don't get Protestants,

511
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:04,480
that's okay. We'll open it up to whoever wants to

512
00:36:04,519 --> 00:36:07,920
come on. We've already got about six people in line.

513
00:36:10,079 --> 00:36:15,920
And uh, there's the link to call in. And then wait, no,

514
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,440
that's the link to super chat here, and that's penned

515
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,800
and here's the link to call in. You call in

516
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,159
via Twitter spaces. Now, I've already had a pretty a

517
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,719
serious amount of coffee today, so I'm already getting at

518
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,039
a little too overheated. I better calm down with some

519
00:36:33,159 --> 00:36:36,199
of this Dila monkey. I got a diala Monkey snack

520
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:45,639
right here. Eighth the a snack data bought seven seven seven.

521
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,360
One wants to debate and he's a low tier Protestant.

522
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:54,639
Well ooh, okay, I guess. But you know something I

523
00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:57,880
found is that I would say ninety percent of the

524
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:03,239
time when I have okay, he's unblocked. When I when

525
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,639
I blocked people, I was right. There's about two percent

526
00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:10,239
of the cases where maybe I got it wrong, and

527
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,360
then in a few instances somebody comes back three four

528
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,280
years later and says, hey, I was an idiot, you

529
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,920
were wrong. Will you unblock me. I've had I've had

530
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,159
that happen probably five ten times. So maybe I got

531
00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:29,559
it wrong. But most of the time, if I if

532
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:33,400
I banned you, I was in the right because you

533
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,159
were dumb, you said dumb stuff, and I have a

534
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:46,840
very uh quick block mute block mute, black mute. So

535
00:37:47,639 --> 00:37:51,000
that's how we roll around here anyway. All right, topics

536
00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:53,800
are we're gonna open up right now. I'm gonna quit yapping,

537
00:37:54,039 --> 00:38:04,400
shut up, yapping, dire, shut up. Priority topics are Protestantism, Calvinism, Evangelicalism,

538
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,639
church history, soul, scripture of Bible, et cetera. Second tier

539
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,840
priority today Roman Catholicism, papacy, et cetera. And then third

540
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:20,039
tier all the rest of the stuff Muslims, Atheists, Hebrew roots, Judaism,

541
00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:22,440
blah blah blah. By the way, you see that there

542
00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:25,039
was a Hebrew roots Bhi dude that came into the

543
00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:29,079
last or maybe two debates back. I forget his name,

544
00:38:30,519 --> 00:38:35,320
Genesis something good pastor Genesis Anyway, it turns out that

545
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,840
I was insane because he did a stream that when

546
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,519
the Kingdom of the Black Hebewer Israelites come, he's making

547
00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:48,000
me his special slave and I'm gonna get a electroshock

548
00:38:48,119 --> 00:38:51,280
collar and he's going to whip me so many times

549
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,400
that my skin will be flayed off of my back.

550
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:56,000
This is what he says in his life stream. I

551
00:38:56,079 --> 00:38:58,679
didn't realize they're that insane. I thought they just had

552
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,159
this weird sect. They actually think they're going to like

553
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:06,440
go to war and enslave all the white people. Either

554
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,960
that or he's a fed. So this guy's insane. I

555
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,440
forget his name, but he's one of these Bhi dudes.

556
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:15,840
And but I mean, you're talking about people who believe

557
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:21,400
that the word a Jewish means that they're kind of Jewish.

558
00:39:21,639 --> 00:39:24,519
Speaker 25: Well when that jew but we're kind the Jewish and

559
00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:26,400
hence the term Jewish.

560
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,599
Speaker 15: You see, they actually believe that that's what that word means.

561
00:39:29,639 --> 00:39:33,920
Like these are people who can't do grammar, but their prophets,

562
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,039
Like they don't know third grade grammar, but they have

563
00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:44,239
the gift of prophecy. I'm not joking, Like that's literally

564
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,760
what these people believe. So I think with like, you

565
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,119
can't debate those kinds of people, Like if a person

566
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:57,320
can't function like they're this is a new dude though.

567
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,639
Right he's a Jewish guy debating a black heuber Israelite.

568
00:40:02,639 --> 00:40:04,480
That would be a funny. I could do like both

569
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,960
sides of that debate, and that would be that would

570
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,519
be fire, dude. All right, let's open it up. Priority

571
00:40:12,519 --> 00:40:15,719
goes to the Prats today. Shout out to my Protestant

572
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:23,280
brothers and sisters, psychros sisters. All right, we got Jacob Now,

573
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,719
I've been seeing him tweeting over here. What's Jacob got

574
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:32,639
on his mind? Shout out to yaku.

575
00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 6: Hey, what's up, Jake?

576
00:40:36,039 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 15: Who would win in a debate between an Orthodox Jewish

577
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:40,480
rabbi and Yakoub?

578
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 6: Depends on the day.

579
00:40:44,679 --> 00:40:46,599
Speaker 15: I think I got like if it was the Sabbath

580
00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:50,920
and he couldn't debate exactly? Okay, what's on your mind? Dog?

581
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,639
Speaker 6: So actually not really here to debate. I'm actually I

582
00:40:55,639 --> 00:40:56,840
have a great.

583
00:40:56,599 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 26: Interest in Orthodoxy, but I was raised Protestant and so

584
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,840
figured out to ask you a couple questions. First, one

585
00:41:03,039 --> 00:41:06,719
is when it comes to veneration, which is something that's

586
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:13,480
super foreign to Protestants. This this idea of latria versus Julia,

587
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:20,840
honor and worship I pulled up in Revelation. Let's see

588
00:41:21,159 --> 00:41:27,400
sixteen verse two, the word worship, I'm gonna try to

589
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:33,079
pronounce it proscanello, right, So Proscanillo here. I'm curious as

590
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:37,199
I'm looking through all of the different links to Proscanillo

591
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,559
all throughout the Old and New Testament. There's two use cases,

592
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:47,000
and the first proper as of God, Christ and super

593
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:49,760
mundane beings, and I see all of these having to

594
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,840
do with worship that is only unto God. And the

595
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,199
second one, it seems, you know, it says of homage

596
00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:02,679
to human superiors. So I can see kind of a

597
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,039
delineation there. But when I click on some of these

598
00:42:06,519 --> 00:42:11,800
second case usages for paying homage to human superiors x

599
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:15,960
ten point fifteen x ten twenty five. When Peter entered,

600
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,559
Cornelius met him and fell down as if he'd worshiped him,

601
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,039
but Peter lifted him up, saying, stand up.

602
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 6: I to him man.

603
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 15: So it's not so a lot of times what Protestants do,

604
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,920
and I'm not faulting you for this, is that they

605
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,639
will look up in a Greek dictionary or a lexicon

606
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,280
the usage of that term, and then assign a single

607
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:40,000
sense to that term. So we could say that I revere,

608
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:46,320
I honor, I give homage, I venerate like all of

609
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:53,280
those terms could mean different things. So do I honor God? Yes? Okay,

610
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,920
honor your father mother? Do you honor God the father? Sure?

611
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,960
Do I honor them with the same honor? No? So

612
00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:02,320
the terms are not the things that are going to

613
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,559
tell you the theological meanings. And this is what a

614
00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:07,079
lot of times Protestants get backwards. And that's why, for example,

615
00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:14,119
Joseph he bows before Pharaoh, right, Elisha bows before Elijah.

616
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:20,000
Joshua bows before the arc of the covenant in Joshua seven.

617
00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:24,800
So the action itself, the bodily action, is not itself

618
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:30,199
the essence of what constitutes latria or dulia. It's what's

619
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,320
in the mind and the heart. And that's why Jesus

620
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,079
says that idolatry and other things proceed from the heart

621
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:38,079
of man, not just from what goes into the mouth

622
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,480
or by extension, is not just bodily actions. So when

623
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:46,039
there's a bowing before the angels, and the angels say,

624
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:49,320
do not worship me, I am another creature like you,

625
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,679
that's signifying the point that you do not give the

626
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,960
same honor to created things that you do to the

627
00:43:56,079 --> 00:44:00,440
uncreated allah of God. So it's really not determined by

628
00:44:00,679 --> 00:44:07,440
specific Greek words. The Latin Church developed that distinction, particularly

629
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:11,800
if you read something like Saint Jerome's essay against Helvigius,

630
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,679
which is, if I recall that's the one about relics,

631
00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:19,079
and he points out that the honor that we give

632
00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:21,960
to the relics is like the honor that you would

633
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,239
give to father and mother, or to anyone else that

634
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,840
deserves authority, but they deserve more honor because they're above

635
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,119
even earthly authorities. And so if it's proper in the

636
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:35,039
ancient medieval world to bow before a king or a magistrate,

637
00:44:35,559 --> 00:44:38,119
how much more proper is it to bow before you know,

638
00:44:38,199 --> 00:44:40,679
the kings and magistrates of God's kingdom, the saints.

639
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,039
Speaker 26: So would you say, essentially, it does come down to

640
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,519
the heart of a person, and it's individualized case by case.

641
00:44:50,039 --> 00:44:56,039
That's really really not distinguishable for most people externally, Like

642
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:56,920
would you agree with well.

643
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 15: I would say that in many cases, you know, say

644
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,079
we're where we go to some pagan region and everybody's

645
00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:07,159
bowing down to an idol. It would be the case

646
00:45:07,199 --> 00:45:09,920
that most likely pretty much everybody there that's bowing down

647
00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:14,000
is committing idolatry, because in their hearts they do conceive

648
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:17,039
of that idol as having mystical power or being divine,

649
00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:21,559
or animism or polytheism or something like that. So yeah,

650
00:45:21,639 --> 00:45:25,039
in certain cases, the majority of the body actions would

651
00:45:25,079 --> 00:45:28,599
be idolatry, but it can't be in all cases, because

652
00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:32,599
it's not idolatrous for Joshua and all the elders of

653
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:36,519
Israel to bow down before the arc and prostration. If

654
00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:39,840
the essence of idolatry is the bodily action.

655
00:45:40,679 --> 00:45:43,039
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, it makes sense too, and it's cool to see.

656
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,679
Speaker 26: I think it's later in Revelation the verse where God

657
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:52,199
actually says that he will command those to bow down

658
00:45:52,559 --> 00:45:55,480
at the feet of those he loves, all right, So

659
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,440
it's a cool distinction, So I appreciate that.

660
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,639
Speaker 15: And then yeah, I highly reckoon men. By the way,

661
00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:04,119
though Jerome's essay. Have you read that? No, it's not

662
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,599
very very long. I highly recommend It'll give you a

663
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:11,119
good four fifth century insight into what the church in

664
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:13,880
Saint Jerome's day thought about these things. Is I'm pretty

665
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,000
sure it's against televidios. I could look it up, but

666
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,719
it might be against vigilantius. There's two one is against

667
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,239
one is about the perpetual virginity, and then the other

668
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:23,159
one is about relics.

669
00:46:23,199 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 6: So okay cool.

670
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 26: And then to tap into that, because it flows perfectly

671
00:46:28,519 --> 00:46:34,639
is with generation and with especially specifically veneration of theotokos

672
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,880
being at this elevated even elevated higher about the saints.

673
00:46:41,079 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 6: One of my main trip ups right now, because like

674
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:43,400
I said.

675
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:48,679
Speaker 26: I'm very well thinking about becoming a catechumen soon and

676
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,320
one of the biggest things that's kind of I'm ulling

677
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,800
over my mind is the generation of theotokos because that man,

678
00:46:56,159 --> 00:46:58,880
some of the things I'm reading in the liturgies these

679
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,360
liturgy books are like wow. And when I'm reading Saint

680
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:08,360
Clement Ignacious justin Martyr. You know, these very first first

681
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:14,679
guys in the one hundreds, none of them mentioned theotokos,

682
00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:16,599
I think, like at all.

683
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:18,519
Speaker 6: So I just had like this.

684
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 26: It's so exparagement where I'm like, yeah, what's what's going

685
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,159
on there?

686
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 15: So nobody uh So, there's countless things that even Protestants

687
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,440
believe that the first second century church fathers, even third

688
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,039
centery church fathers don't mention. For example, there's no first second,

689
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:37,519
third century church father that lists the entire Protestant Canon

690
00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:41,360
of Scripture. So the idea that there's there's this expectation

691
00:47:41,639 --> 00:47:45,880
of every controversy or every theological issue having some explicit

692
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,800
written reference is kind of impossible, unworkable, and it's a

693
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,559
kind of a double standard. Theotokos is not used specifically

694
00:47:54,639 --> 00:47:58,360
until Saint Cyril and the Council of Ephesus. It's a

695
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,000
term that he uses to encapsulate the role that she

696
00:48:02,159 --> 00:48:04,639
has as the one that gave birth according to his

697
00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:08,840
human nature to the divine person, the logos. So it

698
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,360
takes on a specific theological precision at Ephesus in four

699
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,360
thirty one, And so we wouldn't expect that that term

700
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:20,159
would have a priority before it became a theological dispute.

701
00:48:20,199 --> 00:48:23,639
A lot of things in church history don't get precisely

702
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,320
quote defined until there's a dispute about it. So we

703
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,800
might reason that there was no dispute about the theotokos

704
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,480
until the reason there wasn't a bunch of writing about

705
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,280
it was that is not really disputed yet. But For example,

706
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,800
in one pint eighty you begin to see massive disputes

707
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:46,159
about the liturgical calendar right with the cortadesseminarians. So that

708
00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:49,679
tells us that there was already a liturgical calendar in

709
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,440
the mid second century, right, which is contra Protestanism. So

710
00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:59,760
point being that there's not. It's unrealistic to expect, and

711
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,559
no Protestant actually holds up for their position either that

712
00:49:02,599 --> 00:49:07,639
there's some written record of every theological problem or issue

713
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:10,559
in the first and second century. I mean, some of

714
00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:13,880
those first second century church fathers, unless they are speaking alligorically,

715
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,920
also made theological mistakes, like if they if they're teaching premillennialism,

716
00:49:19,119 --> 00:49:20,199
so what right.

717
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, And then just kind

718
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,079
of a much smaller question.

719
00:49:29,199 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 26: But even like when when reading about Justice justin Martyr,

720
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,800
he does seem to have an emphasis on teaching and

721
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,760
reading of the Word, and you know, in the weekly gatherings,

722
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,880
which it seems like divine liturgy as I've briefly known.

723
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 6: It does not seem to have the same emphasis.

724
00:49:48,639 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 26: Would you just say, you know, well, now we just

725
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,079
break it up into different parts of our weeks, and

726
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,559
or maybe it was it was just historical context.

727
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 15: Well, it's up to you hold on so that. I

728
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,760
don't think that's true at all. It's to you to

729
00:50:01,079 --> 00:50:03,719
whether you choose to follow the daily readings or not.

730
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,960
And then at the liturgy itself, maybe you didn't hear

731
00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:11,199
or weren't paying attention. But everything that's sung is scripture.

732
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,519
So I'm not trying to be rude, but did you

733
00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:20,119
not pay attention? Like the movable psalms that come in

734
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:22,480
and out are based on where we are in the

735
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,280
liturgical season, and all of that is scripture. And if

736
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,280
you read the Orthodox Study Bible, you're going to notice

737
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,880
that as you read through, for example, the Book of Psalms,

738
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:33,440
tons and tons and tons of these psalms are chanted

739
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:41,559
throughout the various liturgical celebrations Epiphany, right, Christmas, Nativity, like,

740
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,519
tons of these psalms are sung throughout this, So the

741
00:50:44,639 --> 00:50:46,679
entire thing is singing scripture. So I don't know where

742
00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:47,199
you're getting at.

743
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,599
Speaker 26: Yeah, yeah, well, I guess maybe it just comes down

744
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:54,159
to homily, the homily itself, like somebody in authority, the priest,

745
00:50:55,679 --> 00:50:58,840
walking through the applications of scripture, things like that.

746
00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 6: But yeah, you're right as far as.

747
00:51:01,159 --> 00:51:05,159
Speaker 15: Well, But every service includes a reading from the epistles

748
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,920
and a reading of the Gospels, and then there's every

749
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,519
now and then you'll find based on certain situations the

750
00:51:11,519 --> 00:51:13,719
priest doesn't do it homily, but they usually do so.

751
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,440
For example, this last Sunday, we had a pretty lengthy

752
00:51:18,519 --> 00:51:23,239
homily on love and the Gospel, so out of the Gospel.

753
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,639
So I don't I don't know what you mean, Okay, cool,

754
00:51:27,679 --> 00:51:29,039
I'm not trying to be rude. I just like I

755
00:51:29,039 --> 00:51:32,639
don't understand the like the idea that maybe you mean

756
00:51:32,639 --> 00:51:35,440
that they don't do like Protestant exegetical Bible studies. Is

757
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:36,159
that what you're friends here?

758
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,679
Speaker 26: Yeah, yeah, I mean exactly, just just coming from a

759
00:51:39,679 --> 00:51:42,719
Protestant perspective in the background, there's such an emphasis on,

760
00:51:43,159 --> 00:51:47,639
right that that forty five minutes long homily, right compared

761
00:51:47,679 --> 00:51:51,400
to these past few weeks. Yeah, like you said, five

762
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,599
to ten minutes, fifteen minutes maybe tops.

763
00:51:53,599 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 6: It's just not an emphasis.

764
00:51:55,159 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 26: So something that I'm noticing and curious about as I

765
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,280
read like justin Marter and his brief mention of you

766
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:02,679
know what these Sundays look like.

767
00:52:03,519 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 15: I think those Sunday but those Sundays are liturgical celebrations,

768
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,920
even in Justin Martyr that culminate in the Eucharist according to.

769
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 26: Him, right, okay, right, And and that's one of the

770
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,760
things I appreciate most and attracted to most about Orthodox

771
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,320
he is the emphasis and revolving around the Holy Sacraments

772
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:23,480
and specifically the Eucharist.

773
00:52:23,599 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 6: So that's cool.

774
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 26: Cool, And then I'm trying to think if there's anything

775
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,400
else you answered my question about you know Mary, and

776
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,760
that that really is probably the biggest hangout.

777
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,559
Speaker 15: Have you seen the video I did a forty minute

778
00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:38,440
video on the biblical view of Mary?

779
00:52:38,639 --> 00:52:41,039
Speaker 6: Yeah, I actually think I did a couple of weeks back.

780
00:52:41,599 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 26: Is that with the Ark of the Covenant as the Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

781
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,639
that was cool. Yeah, awesome. Just to tap in one

782
00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:54,440
more question would be when it comes to the story

783
00:52:54,519 --> 00:52:58,159
when when the woman yells out to Jesus and or

784
00:52:58,199 --> 00:53:00,800
his disciples and says, blessed is you know the mother

785
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:05,199
who he's nursed at her breast and whatnot? And he

786
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:10,760
doesn't rebuke her, but he says, rather bless her are

787
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,360
those who to do you know, who do the Lord's.

788
00:53:14,119 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 6: Will, who follow me?

789
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 15: Yeah, she fits the double blessing. That's the point. So

790
00:53:20,119 --> 00:53:27,039
it's not like no, she's not blessed for being my mother. Rather,

791
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:30,360
it's these things. It's rather blessed are those who do both.

792
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,679
And she did both. That's why she's the new Eve.

793
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:34,360
As Aaron AA.

794
00:53:34,199 --> 00:53:39,079
Speaker 26: Says, cool, Well, thanks appreciate it, Ja, Yeah, and I

795
00:53:39,079 --> 00:53:41,480
think I mean Revelation twelve also, I mean, I think

796
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,599
it makes it really clear that she's exalted to.

797
00:53:43,679 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 15: Be the queen of Heaven. And the reason for that

798
00:53:48,159 --> 00:53:51,599
is precisely because if you look at the typology, you'll

799
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:53,920
look back in the Old Testament, you'll see multiple types

800
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,119
of Mary, and Protestants miss this. But Sarah is a

801
00:53:58,159 --> 00:54:03,239
type of Mary, Hannah is a type of Mary. And

802
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,920
the Magnificat prophesies that all generations would call her the

803
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,400
blessed Mother. And that's precisely the thing that Protestants stopped doing,

804
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:17,000
especially as you know, Protestantism evolved into more radical forms.

805
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,159
I mean, Luther probably still called her the blessed Mother

806
00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:25,480
at the Tokos, But as Protestism progress progresses, they literally

807
00:54:25,519 --> 00:54:28,679
just break with the entire tradition of even the Protestants,

808
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:33,440
like the classical Reformers believed in perpetual virginity, and then

809
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,400
they just discarded that and then, oh, no, we don't

810
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,679
have to. But look, here's the reason for a lot

811
00:54:38,679 --> 00:54:40,840
of this is this is something that Protestants don't understand,

812
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,000
is that the Bible was not primarily meant to be

813
00:54:44,199 --> 00:54:47,880
your study text. There's nothing wrong with studying the Bible

814
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,599
and having that as your daily reading and all that.

815
00:54:50,599 --> 00:54:53,400
That's what you're supposed to do. But the actual proper

816
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,599
context is to be heard in the liturgy, and that's

817
00:54:56,599 --> 00:54:59,559
something that Protestants just can't fathom. But the weird part

818
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:02,639
that they're not aware of is that you actually have

819
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,360
to go to the ancient liturgical texts to know in

820
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,039
part what the Bible canon is. These are called the electionaries,

821
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,400
and so as the Church was forming and debating the

822
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,800
canon of scripture, one of the things that Protestant scholars

823
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,960
admit they went back to, not the president scholars, but

824
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,960
the church fathers. What they looked to was the daily readings,

825
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,920
the electionaries. Those are liturgical texts. Liturgical texts had a

826
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,159
huge role in canonicity. And once I learned that and

827
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,119
saw F. F. Bruce Lee MacDonald, all these Protestant scholars

828
00:55:33,159 --> 00:55:35,880
admitting that that was one of the ways that I

829
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,440
exited Protestantism because they are admitting that it's not just

830
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,039
a matter of the early Church going to people's basements

831
00:55:43,039 --> 00:55:49,440
and houses and becoming scriptoriums like a bunch of rabbis.

832
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,000
We just sit here with torah, scroll pointers and look

833
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,239
at these books all day long. No, no, we eat the book. Now,

834
00:55:56,639 --> 00:55:58,840
we eat the book. How do you eat the book

835
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,079
as Ezekiel did prophecy of the New Covenant? How do

836
00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:05,119
you eat the word? Oh, the liturgy exactly, the Eucharist.

837
00:56:05,159 --> 00:56:07,159
That's how you eat the word. You don't just read

838
00:56:07,199 --> 00:56:09,320
it and bringing it to your mind. You partake of

839
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,360
it for your whole being. And so Protestanism is an

840
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:17,599
intellectual gnostic position that thinks, like Muslims and Jews, that

841
00:56:17,679 --> 00:56:21,679
the salvation is through the paper of the book, when

842
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:26,800
Ezekiel eats the book, which is a prediction of the Eucharist.

843
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:31,639
Hence John six, all right, I see you were raising

844
00:56:31,639 --> 00:56:32,440
your hand.

845
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 6: Hello, yep, jay, can you hear me?

846
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:41,679
Speaker 15: Yep?

847
00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 6: Hey? What's going going on? So?

848
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:51,519
Speaker 16: I am a catech human new Cateauman, but I was

849
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:55,679
raised a Protestant, and for the last ten years I

850
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:00,719
actually was in a charismatic church or Church, Charismatic group,

851
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:07,000
and a big part of that, big part of the theology,

852
00:57:07,039 --> 00:57:09,599
I guess, is that you have to speak in tongues,

853
00:57:10,039 --> 00:57:11,920
and they have a they have a term that says

854
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,599
the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of

855
00:57:17,639 --> 00:57:21,719
speaking in tongues. So you know that that for me

856
00:57:22,079 --> 00:57:24,719
was I grew up non to nom initially, and then

857
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,320
so that for me was kind of like, whoa, this

858
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,920
is different, this is wild. And then you look at

859
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,800
the they say in Acts two you have the day

860
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,880
of Pentecost, and then they come out speaking tongues. I

861
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,719
always had a problem with that because the tongues and

862
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,480
the Charismatic Church is like gibberish, and then the tongues

863
00:57:43,519 --> 00:57:46,679
in Acts two says that the people can hear their

864
00:57:46,679 --> 00:57:48,800
own language. So I always thought there was something weird

865
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,760
about that. But I kind of just you know, you

866
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,199
move along and you pursue God or.

867
00:57:53,159 --> 00:57:58,199
Speaker 6: Whatever, and but then but then now, as a.

868
00:57:58,199 --> 00:58:01,679
Speaker 16: Kind of human, you know, I I can easily accept Okay,

869
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:09,239
that was the term zeno glossia as opposed to glossalia.

870
00:58:09,559 --> 00:58:14,000
But I'm seeing in Corinthians there's a part where Paul

871
00:58:14,119 --> 00:58:17,559
is talking about the gift of tongues in being used

872
00:58:17,639 --> 00:58:20,440
in worship, and that.

873
00:58:20,719 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 15: It's just languages, bro, It's just languages. So it's translating

874
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,800
the texts or the message the revelation into various languages,

875
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,559
which is what is done in the Orthodox Church where

876
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:33,880
everywhere they go they put it into the vernacular. It's

877
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,840
not gibberish, there's no there's no secret angel language that

878
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,679
charismatic heretics are doing.

879
00:58:42,239 --> 00:58:42,519
Speaker 27: Wow.

880
00:58:42,559 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 16: Okay, Okay, that that makes perfect sense.

881
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 9: And I don't know why that was hard for me too.

882
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 15: Yes, it's just it's literally just translating or having the

883
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,960
gift of knowing and translating languages, or maybe even if

884
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,480
you're not academic, like it could be like at Pentzeco,

885
00:58:56,559 --> 00:59:02,159
it's the miraculous event where the languages are understood, right right.

886
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:05,199
Speaker 6: Okay, cool?

887
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,239
Speaker 16: Yeah, So that was that was a bit kind of

888
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:09,840
like a not a stumbling.

889
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,159
Speaker 9: Block for me, but just a question that I had.

890
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,559
Speaker 16: And I'll agree that things that you've been saying a

891
00:59:14,599 --> 00:59:18,440
lot of really good things already so far about Protestantism

892
00:59:18,519 --> 00:59:21,480
and how like, for instance, it's not the Bible is

893
00:59:21,519 --> 00:59:24,000
not like a study a study book that you take

894
00:59:24,039 --> 00:59:26,639
home and you read, and I feel like the like

895
00:59:26,719 --> 00:59:30,880
Protestants in me included, it's it's a matter of just

896
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:32,760
almost like throwing.

897
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 28: Away all these ways.

898
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 16: That you read the Bible and you have to like

899
00:59:38,079 --> 00:59:39,119
redo the whole thing.

900
00:59:39,159 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 9: It's really hard for.

901
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 6: A lot of people to do that. But yeah, for me,

902
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:47,760
as a coming from the.

903
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 16: Charismatic Church, you know, there's a huge focus on like

904
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:55,280
worshiping God and just pursuing God in like an unabandoned

905
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:55,920
kind of way.

906
00:59:56,639 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 6: So coming to Orthodoxy.

907
01:00:02,199 --> 01:00:05,119
Speaker 9: Also was very easy for me too, because.

908
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 16: I'm like, Okay, all of that stuff that I learned,

909
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,679
I can just throw that away and just worship God

910
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,679
and just focus on the liturgy. So would you say

911
01:00:14,679 --> 01:00:20,480
that the liturgy is the greatest way to learn Orthodoxy?

912
01:00:20,599 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean you're going to learn it when you

913
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,000
attend and when you're in the that's the best categorizer.

914
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:27,880
I mean, you'll have catechises too, but I mean the liturgy.

915
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:30,280
The liturgy will teach you that theology in a very

916
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,679
profound quick way if you pay attention.

917
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,159
Speaker 16: To it, right right, right, Okay, Well that was really

918
01:00:36,239 --> 01:00:38,760
just a big question that I had, what I've been

919
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,679
thinking about for a while, So I appreciate it thank.

920
01:00:40,559 --> 01:00:47,719
Speaker 15: You, sure, thank you. Yeah, those are good questions. I

921
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,800
think a lot of people assume that the quote languages

922
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:56,400
in First Corinthians are some sort of weird gibberish or

923
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:01,639
secret Gnostic thing. I've seen some exegesis from the Orthodox

924
01:01:01,679 --> 01:01:05,800
perspective that Paul's talking about noetic prayer. So that's a possibility.

925
01:01:06,239 --> 01:01:10,719
But the sign of Pentecost, if you look back to Isaiah,

926
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:15,400
I think it's Isaiah twenty let me see twenty two

927
01:01:17,639 --> 01:01:24,360
or twenty four, let me see. So when Pentecost happens,

928
01:01:24,559 --> 01:01:26,480
it's actually a fulfillment of a bunch of things in

929
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,760
the Old Testament, not least of which is the feast

930
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:35,639
of Towernacles and Pentecosts. Right, So in Isaiah twenty nine

931
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,679
and twenty eight, depending on which I think this might

932
01:01:38,719 --> 01:01:42,480
differ in the masoretic versus the septuagen but twenty twenty

933
01:01:42,559 --> 01:01:46,800
nine you have mentions of the speaking in another language

934
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,239
which will be assigned to the Jews. And Pentecost is

935
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,760
the reversal of Babel, right, because you have the confusion

936
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,840
of languages at the Tower Babbel Genesis ten, and then

937
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,199
you have the reversal of which, by the way, is

938
01:02:01,199 --> 01:02:04,360
explaining the Orthodox liturgy. Pentecost is the reversal of Babel

939
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:08,280
to bring everyone back together in unity. And it would

940
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:12,320
make no sense if it's gibberish in Acts two. So

941
01:02:12,599 --> 01:02:16,639
the languages in Acts two have to be known, miraculous

942
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,599
understanding of a bunch of people speaking different languages to

943
01:02:20,599 --> 01:02:25,000
be understood in one unified way. And that's the fulfillment

944
01:02:25,079 --> 01:02:27,519
of Isaiah twenty eight twenty nine that it's a sign

945
01:02:27,639 --> 01:02:31,880
to the Jews when you see this miraculous reversal of

946
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,679
Babel and the language is being understood, that means it's

947
01:02:35,719 --> 01:02:46,960
not gibberish, unknown angel language stoic. So to the people

948
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,440
talking smack in the chat, if you can't come defend

949
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,000
your positions, then you're just wasting your times. It's not

950
01:02:53,079 --> 01:02:55,199
a place for you to spam. So we asked that

951
01:02:55,239 --> 01:02:58,199
you come to debate, don't lie, and so that you

952
01:02:58,199 --> 01:02:59,719
don't know what Twitter is or how to call in

953
01:02:59,719 --> 01:03:01,840
on Twitter. All you do is click into the room.

954
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,639
There's the link right there. Otherwise, why are you wasting

955
01:03:04,639 --> 01:03:07,440
everybody's time? And I recognize your name, Kyle. You've been

956
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:09,719
like I've been over here for a long I've seen

957
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:11,559
your name for years? What do you what is this

958
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:14,800
low tier crap that you're saying that you don't know

959
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,960
how to call in on Twitter and that I'm I'm

960
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:23,719
a Calvinist, Larking is Orthodox and this is like how

961
01:03:23,719 --> 01:03:25,840
many years do I have to be in the Orthodox

962
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,360
Church before like people stop saying stupid shit like this.

963
01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:32,840
I mean it's like seven eight years. Come on, Stoic,

964
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:33,519
what's up on you?

965
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:38,199
Speaker 6: Hey? Yeah, I was just calling in.

966
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,119
Speaker 29: I have some questions about Catholicism because so I actually

967
01:03:41,159 --> 01:03:43,800
grew up Eastern Orthodox, but I just so I have

968
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:46,480
some people personally close to me that have kind of

969
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:47,440
like bought into like.

970
01:03:47,599 --> 01:03:50,239
Speaker 6: Hemism and you know, like bought into what.

971
01:03:51,719 --> 01:03:56,079
Speaker 29: Palmism, you know, and like Roman Catholic doctor and in general.

972
01:03:56,599 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 15: Well, let me ask you the first question. First question

973
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,719
before you move on. Do you think that the modern

974
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,119
Vatican has cared about Tomism for the last seventy eight years?

975
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 5: No, not at all.

976
01:04:06,519 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 29: Now, sure ahead, Yeah, I'm just curious, like when did

977
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:15,159
the approach of like Roman Catholicism become so much more

978
01:04:15,199 --> 01:04:19,320
like legalistic than Eastern Christianity.

979
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 15: I don't think there's one point. There's a kind of

980
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:25,760
an ongoing evolution over time. As to why the Latin

981
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:29,760
Church took on that attitude, you could look to the

982
01:04:30,199 --> 01:04:35,480
tendency in Rome itself to favor organizational structure and authority,

983
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:39,360
whereas in the East, generally speaking, you had a much

984
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,960
more metaphysically minded discussion. I mean, even the Roman poets

985
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,519
and Roman philosophers are very practical and very interested in,

986
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,159
you know, the imperium. If you look at the Stoics

987
01:04:49,199 --> 01:04:51,079
or if you look at Marcus Aurelius, they're not interested in

988
01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:53,440
a lot of metaphysical speculation. But if you go to

989
01:04:53,519 --> 01:04:56,920
the Greek mind, do you have a lot more metaphysics,

990
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,440
a lot more you know, Plato aristotl discussing stuff that

991
01:04:59,639 --> 01:05:02,239
the Roman don't really care about. So I think that

992
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,280
the Roman attitude and mind of organizational structure and legality

993
01:05:06,599 --> 01:05:10,119
played a key role in the formation and influence of

994
01:05:10,159 --> 01:05:13,960
the Western Church, the Latin Church. And then I think

995
01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:19,519
that after Augustine you get presuppositions in his theology that

996
01:05:19,639 --> 01:05:23,039
maybe he didn't himself necessarily hold to, but that over

997
01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:26,559
time led to more and more strict legalities. For example,

998
01:05:27,039 --> 01:05:30,599
all infants are damned because they're damned in atom everyone's

999
01:05:30,639 --> 01:05:33,760
in atom and so in the Augustinian position, there's this

1000
01:05:34,159 --> 01:05:37,400
sort of legal attitude that everybody is an atom, as

1001
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,679
in an archetype, including all the future infants, and they're

1002
01:05:39,719 --> 01:05:42,800
automatically de facto damned. It's called the mass dam nata doctrine.

1003
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:46,079
It's not even controversial. It's well known that he taught this.

1004
01:05:47,679 --> 01:05:50,639
So those things develop over time, and then you eventually

1005
01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:54,960
get things like and some satisfaction view which is influenced

1006
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,000
by some of these ideas, and then eventually you get

1007
01:05:58,159 --> 01:06:03,679
you know, high tier just total dictatus pope, you know,

1008
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,000
unam Suncam you have to hold to, you know, all

1009
01:06:07,039 --> 01:06:10,920
these legalities of the Western Latin system's view of the

1010
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,519
pope as a world emperor or else you're lost.

1011
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1012
01:06:16,079 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 29: Yeah, And I guess it's just really confusing because I

1013
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,400
was watching a live term reviewers from a Complete or

1014
01:06:20,679 --> 01:06:23,519
last June when the papal was called the Bishop of

1015
01:06:23,639 --> 01:06:28,119
Rome premiacy document came out that Yeah, and it's just

1016
01:06:28,159 --> 01:06:31,599
really confusing because it seems like like the message and tone,

1017
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,639
like post was a post concilliar era just continues to

1018
01:06:35,519 --> 01:06:38,000
do this thing where they act like they you know,

1019
01:06:38,039 --> 01:06:40,920
they're continuing to be legalistic, but like, didn't what you

1020
01:06:41,039 --> 01:06:42,960
just referenced about like infants being damned?

1021
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 6: Did they like backtrack on that?

1022
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:47,559
Speaker 15: Yeah, if you read the new document from the Vatican

1023
01:06:47,639 --> 01:06:49,920
on limbo from a few years ago, it says that

1024
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:51,280
you don't even have to believe that anymore.

1025
01:06:52,079 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 29: But how I don't get how they can keep like

1026
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:55,119
I don't want to, you know, the meme, like how

1027
01:06:55,119 --> 01:06:56,199
do they keep getting away with this?

1028
01:06:57,559 --> 01:07:00,719
Speaker 15: Like because they pray on the but because it's a

1029
01:07:00,719 --> 01:07:04,159
strong delusion that the followers won't be honest with themselves

1030
01:07:04,239 --> 01:07:06,480
and they want to. I mean, there's all kinds of

1031
01:07:06,519 --> 01:07:08,800
reasons why people don't leave it, but I mean a

1032
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,880
lot of people feel like they can solve the system

1033
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,440
or rescue it, and they take on this idiotic project

1034
01:07:14,519 --> 01:07:16,519
of trying to make it all work and some sort

1035
01:07:16,559 --> 01:07:18,760
of giant out like there will like they're goodwill hunting

1036
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,239
and they're Matt Damon, they're gonna walk in, you know,

1037
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,239
from being a janitor and like solve this giant papal

1038
01:07:24,639 --> 01:07:27,000
nonsense equation on the math talkboard or whatever.

1039
01:07:28,039 --> 01:07:30,079
Speaker 29: Yeah, because like between that and then like with the

1040
01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:32,360
whole legalistic approach, when when I heard you like talk

1041
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,159
about the monarchical you know, structure of the Trinity.

1042
01:07:36,199 --> 01:07:36,599
Speaker 6: I wouldn't.

1043
01:07:36,599 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 29: I wasn't very well kind of guys growing up Eastern Orthodox.

1044
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,440
I guess I'm grateful I was Orthodox.

1045
01:07:42,039 --> 01:07:43,719
Speaker 6: But like I just don't.

1046
01:07:44,119 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 29: I'm trying to understand how like what it seems like

1047
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,079
you're saying, there wasn't really an inflection point, but there's

1048
01:07:49,159 --> 01:07:52,000
these things that maybe were understood for a long time

1049
01:07:52,039 --> 01:07:55,480
in Eastern Orthodoxy that just changed at some point like overtime.

1050
01:07:55,559 --> 01:07:58,679
Like like Saint Thomas Aquinas comes along, he talks about

1051
01:07:58,679 --> 01:08:01,639
divine simplicity, makes a giant book, and then they just like.

1052
01:08:01,639 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 15: Jump shit or what No, I mean the trinitarian errors,

1053
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,800
original sin, like, all of the errors are not all

1054
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:14,039
at once. They take time to develop. So for example,

1055
01:08:14,119 --> 01:08:18,359
the papacy doctrine as Vatican One frames it, even they

1056
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:22,039
themselves typically argue that it evolves. So when they're presented

1057
01:08:22,079 --> 01:08:24,960
with these challenges, a lot of times they will appeal

1058
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,920
to doctrinal development, which just for them means that it's

1059
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:28,880
changing over time.

1060
01:08:31,079 --> 01:08:34,239
Speaker 29: It just feels like an like unfalsifiable position.

1061
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 15: No, that's exactly what the papacy is.

1062
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 6: It.

1063
01:08:37,119 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 15: It's in I mean like ninety percent of them argue

1064
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:45,000
in an unfalsifiable way. Anytime there's a problem, it's suddenly

1065
01:08:45,039 --> 01:08:48,880
not binding in not ex cathedra. Uh and so yeah,

1066
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:50,880
anyway you go about it like they pick and choose

1067
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,319
like Protestants, which papal teachings they follow. So you know

1068
01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:56,720
it's it's absolutely by the way, an unfalsifiable system is

1069
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:58,079
a sign that it's extremely weak.

1070
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 29: Yeah, you were talking about this, I think in that

1071
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,680
same lime stream live stream about the premacy document, and

1072
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:07,800
I just I was, I was laughing really hard at

1073
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:09,800
the whole, like wait for Vatican four, and wait for

1074
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,039
Vatican five, and wait for Vatican six, because when I

1075
01:09:12,119 --> 01:09:14,720
was reading the documents, it seems like they just keep

1076
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:16,920
making the same statement. Will like, oh, when we looked

1077
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,199
it over again, even though we said we can't go

1078
01:09:19,319 --> 01:09:21,920
back on previous understanding, we're gonna like casually do it.

1079
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:23,600
Speaker 6: But gaslight in you thinking it's not the.

1080
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 15: Case, right, Yeah, absolutely, It's just so weird.

1081
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:28,680
Speaker 6: I don't know, Well, Donna take much too much for

1082
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:29,640
your time. I appreciate it.

1083
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:30,319
Speaker 30: I thought I was.

1084
01:09:30,359 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 29: I just felt like I was being gas lit by

1085
01:09:32,039 --> 01:09:33,520
the like the inconsistencies.

1086
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 6: So I don't know. I just appreciate your stuff.

1087
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,520
Speaker 15: Sure, yeah, you were being gas So that's uh, that's

1088
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,039
how they do their apologetics. Here's a trad Catholic. He's

1089
01:09:41,039 --> 01:09:54,960
gonna watch him do that everything. I tried to turn

1090
01:09:54,960 --> 01:10:02,399
the audio up, trad Cat, Are you there, I'm mute,

1091
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:11,000
trad Cat, I'm mute, and he ran away. So there

1092
01:10:11,039 --> 01:10:16,479
you go. So there's your trad cats for you. Try again.

1093
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:18,119
I'm mute.

1094
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,079
Speaker 6: Okay, now, yes, I couldn't hear you before.

1095
01:10:23,159 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 31: Can you hear me?

1096
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:24,039
Speaker 15: Yep?

1097
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 6: I just had a question.

1098
01:10:28,039 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 32: What's your position on like the Rosary?

1099
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 15: I don't know. I mean Orthodox don't need it and

1100
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:38,920
probably shouldn't do it because usually the rosary is tied

1101
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,840
to Roman cally delusions like imaginative prayer and all this

1102
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:43,479
kind of stuff.

1103
01:10:45,159 --> 01:10:46,319
Speaker 6: What do you mean imaginative?

1104
01:10:47,359 --> 01:10:49,399
Speaker 15: I mean that's your own tradition. You're not aware of it.

1105
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 32: Like what you mean, like when you're like meditating on mysteries.

1106
01:10:55,119 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 15: Well, it's more than that, because it's part of the

1107
01:10:58,039 --> 01:11:02,359
Jesuit tradition. It's part of what Alfonso's wory tells you

1108
01:11:02,399 --> 01:11:05,039
to do, which is to imagine all these scenarios, imagine

1109
01:11:05,079 --> 01:11:07,960
yourself in hell imagine all these things, and so that's

1110
01:11:08,119 --> 01:11:10,439
we don't do that. We reject that delusion.

1111
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:14,520
Speaker 6: But what what's like the harm in doing that?

1112
01:11:15,399 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 15: Because humans are susceptible to those kinds of delusions. For example,

1113
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,199
I've had heard countless Roman calviocs say, oh, I know,

1114
01:11:21,319 --> 01:11:23,800
roma's also true because I was praying the Rosary and

1115
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,239
Mary appeared in my dreams and comforted me. I mean

1116
01:11:26,279 --> 01:11:28,079
that's not a good reason to believe the religion.

1117
01:11:30,199 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I.

1118
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 32: Agree, But like I'm saying, like as a practice of faith,

1119
01:11:34,159 --> 01:11:38,399
like or helping you like overcome sin and stuff like that, Like, wouldn't.

1120
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 6: That be good?

1121
01:11:39,319 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 15: No, imaginative prayer is not part of our tradition, So

1122
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,520
it doesn't achieve the purification of the passion or the

1123
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,279
news or anything like that. In fact, it encourages delusion

1124
01:11:48,319 --> 01:11:48,840
and pre list.

1125
01:11:49,199 --> 01:11:54,039
Speaker 32: So then how would you like word towards singing lesson

1126
01:11:54,119 --> 01:11:54,760
stuff like that?

1127
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 6: What would you do then?

1128
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 15: Through the entire ethos of the Orthodox Church?

1129
01:12:00,319 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 6: Like, can you give me some examples?

1130
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 15: Yeah, Well, we have asceticism, we have attendants at the liturgy, confession, Eucharist,

1131
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:07,880
all those things.

1132
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:15,159
Speaker 32: So the Eos believe in translo right, in what transistentiation.

1133
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:18,239
Speaker 15: We believe in the real presence and that it's really

1134
01:12:18,279 --> 01:12:20,520
a participation in the uncreated grace. But we don't have

1135
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:25,239
the Roman Catholic position that you're eating a created divine substance.

1136
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 6: A creative divine substance.

1137
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 32: Yeah, I don't think that's what the Catholics believe.

1138
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:37,119
Speaker 15: Well, you don't need the essence of God, right, No, okay,

1139
01:12:37,159 --> 01:12:39,680
so what do you eat the body?

1140
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,159
Speaker 32: Well, actually it says that we eat the body's soul

1141
01:12:42,199 --> 01:12:42,760
and divinity.

1142
01:12:43,079 --> 01:12:46,640
Speaker 15: And what's the divinity? You don't believe in the essence

1143
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:49,560
inary sanctions? So what's the divinity?

1144
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 6: Uh to say, I'm not sure then, yeah.

1145
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 15: Because it's a created substantial or created accident.

1146
01:12:57,159 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 32: It's like it's like created grace or something.

1147
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 15: Correct, So is there created God?

1148
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 6: No?

1149
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:06,039
Speaker 15: Well you just said you eat divinity. Now you're saying

1150
01:13:06,039 --> 01:13:08,279
it's a created God, but that didn't exist, which one

1151
01:13:08,359 --> 01:13:08,640
is it?

1152
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:10,039
Speaker 8: Uh?

1153
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:11,119
Speaker 6: Wait?

1154
01:13:11,199 --> 01:13:15,079
Speaker 32: But how does like having like created grace or something,

1155
01:13:15,159 --> 01:13:17,520
and you're that that's like a created God.

1156
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:20,039
Speaker 15: You literally just said that in the Eucharist you partake

1157
01:13:20,079 --> 01:13:22,359
a body, blood, soul, and divinity. I asked you what

1158
01:13:22,399 --> 01:13:25,000
the divinity is? You said that it's not the essence

1159
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:25,359
of God.

1160
01:13:26,279 --> 01:13:28,239
Speaker 6: Huh, it would be a created grace.

1161
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:30,399
Speaker 15: Is a created grace a creature?

1162
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 5: Uh?

1163
01:13:32,159 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 15: No, so there's uncreated creatures.

1164
01:13:36,239 --> 01:13:37,359
Speaker 6: What do you mean a creature?

1165
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 15: Like you just called it created. You don't know what

1166
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:41,600
created means.

1167
01:13:42,039 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 32: Yeah, but like you're saying it like it's like a

1168
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:44,680
person or something.

1169
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 15: Okay, no idea what you're talking about. You don't even

1170
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:52,239
know your own traditions, terminology discussion. Calling it a creature

1171
01:13:52,319 --> 01:13:58,159
is calling it a person. Wow, there's a romanchaolics for you,

1172
01:13:58,319 --> 01:14:05,600
trad cats baby meta.

1173
01:14:05,079 --> 01:14:09,600
Speaker 33: Hello, yep, Hey Jay, So I was watching your debate

1174
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:12,840
with Matt dyl a monkey as you like to call him,

1175
01:14:13,159 --> 01:14:15,159
and I was just curious on one of the debate

1176
01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:20,039
points that you guys are discussing. So essentially, I guess

1177
01:14:20,039 --> 01:14:22,439
whenever it went to like the conclusive part of the debate,

1178
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:24,560
wherever he was saying he doesn't have to have a

1179
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:32,159
justification for these fundamental, fundamental metaphysical claims. So how is

1180
01:14:32,199 --> 01:14:35,239
that different from like positing that God exists?

1181
01:14:37,279 --> 01:14:40,039
Speaker 15: Because the argument was giving a justification for why I

1182
01:14:40,079 --> 01:14:43,039
can say that God exists. I wasn't just saying God exists,

1183
01:14:43,159 --> 01:14:48,079
therefore it is. My argument was that if Matt doesn't

1184
01:14:48,079 --> 01:14:50,199
have to give a justification, then I don't.

1185
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:54,039
Speaker 33: So then that puts you guys on the same plane essentially.

1186
01:14:54,159 --> 01:14:56,600
Speaker 15: Well, it's pointing out that he wouldn't accept that line

1187
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:58,920
of argumentation, So why should I accept that from him

1188
01:14:58,960 --> 01:14:59,479
in a debate?

1189
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:03,279
Speaker 6: Oh? Interesting, Okay, that's pretty much what I want.

1190
01:15:03,399 --> 01:15:05,600
Speaker 15: Yeah, no, it's it's a good question. I haven't actually

1191
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:07,319
listened to that debate a long time, so maybe I

1192
01:15:07,319 --> 01:15:12,520
should go back and review, like an old debate like that. George,

1193
01:15:18,279 --> 01:15:20,760
Matt doesn't even know that emergent properties, as Father Deacon

1194
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:24,279
and Ias has pointed out, do not aid materialism in

1195
01:15:24,279 --> 01:15:28,439
any way. Emergent properties arose as a theory against materialism,

1196
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:33,560
but Matt doesn't even know that. George, mister Dyer.

1197
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:36,199
Speaker 6: Thank you for having me up. I have a friend

1198
01:15:36,239 --> 01:15:39,920
who's an Anglican priest. He's agreed to debate you, but

1199
01:15:40,119 --> 01:15:42,920
he prefers to do it in a formal space. He

1200
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:44,840
sort of doesn't want to be moderated. Would you fire

1201
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:46,720
me a DM and I'll just introduce you and you too.

1202
01:15:47,319 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 15: Who is it?

1203
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,600
Speaker 6: His name is Father James and he's on here.

1204
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 17: He doesn't have James.

1205
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 6: His last name is not on his profile. I'm sure

1206
01:15:58,039 --> 01:15:59,720
he would be happy to give you all his information.

1207
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:02,560
Speaker 15: Well, there's a certain angl can I know that I'm

1208
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:04,159
not interested in debating. So I'm trying to figure out

1209
01:16:04,159 --> 01:16:06,520
that was him, But I don't think it is. Does he?

1210
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:09,680
How big is his following? And what what would I

1211
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:10,199
get out of this?

1212
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 6: All right, so he's going to fall small, small following.

1213
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 15: Not interested? Thank you appreciate it. S no, anybody not

1214
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,359
trying to be rude, but I don't do formal debates

1215
01:16:22,399 --> 01:16:24,840
with anybody who has small following. So that's what the

1216
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,560
Twitter spaces are for. If you want to come to debate,

1217
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:36,319
anybody can do that. Uh, let's see, where's that guy

1218
01:16:36,319 --> 01:16:41,960
that was begging to be let back in here? Data boy?

1219
01:16:42,399 --> 01:16:43,960
So do we have any Protestants? I know we've got

1220
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:46,079
a lot of people asking Orthodox questions, which is fine,

1221
01:16:47,279 --> 01:16:53,520
but I'm looking for Protestants who disagree. O cay see one?

1222
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,880
Anybody else? Raise your hand if you're a Protestant who

1223
01:16:57,800 --> 01:16:59,920
wants to come to the front line. We got sick

1224
01:17:00,039 --> 01:17:07,359
Steen people in London. What's up? Okay? I see one

1225
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:10,560
and then we'll go to this ex Muslim guy, and

1226
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:16,199
then we'll go to Jordan. Okay, ex Muslim. What's up?

1227
01:17:24,359 --> 01:17:26,359
By the way, mods, if you would debate that Kyle guy,

1228
01:17:26,359 --> 01:17:28,479
if if he won't come to by, just boot him.

1229
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:32,239
He's wasting everybody's time. I don't know if he left

1230
01:17:32,319 --> 01:17:36,840
or what. But it's just like, there's nothing weaker than

1231
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:39,000
like popping in here to talk about how you're a

1232
01:17:39,039 --> 01:17:42,399
bad person. And by the way, I can't debate out here.

1233
01:17:42,399 --> 01:17:47,600
By what's up? I'm yeah, man, why are you raising

1234
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:48,920
your hand? You're you're on the thing?

1235
01:17:50,239 --> 01:17:53,680
Speaker 6: Yes, shotum, and greetings to all of you. My name

1236
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,239
is Ramin. I'm a former Muslim and a Christian.

1237
01:17:56,319 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 34: Now he can put me in the category of a Protestant,

1238
01:18:01,079 --> 01:18:03,439
but I try not to basically put myself in a

1239
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:07,159
category because the Bible doesn't say if you're a Protestant

1240
01:18:07,239 --> 01:18:09,560
or Catholic or art buct will be saved. It says

1241
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:10,680
you must be born again.

1242
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:13,720
Speaker 15: Now, But what does that mean because the rest of

1243
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:16,800
the New Testament texts talk about that being baptism.

1244
01:18:17,239 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, well born again is we have three kinds of

1245
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:20,680
death in the Bible.

1246
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 34: When is it physical death, spiritual death, and eternal death?

1247
01:18:24,079 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 6: Which is also called second death.

1248
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,119
Speaker 15: So that what does it have to do with baptism.

1249
01:18:29,159 --> 01:18:33,520
Speaker 6: What I just said, baptism is an outer outer.

1250
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:36,560
Speaker 15: You're just repeating Protestant Baptist doctrines. And I'm telling you

1251
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:38,720
in Titus three five, it's called the washing of the

1252
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:39,640
labor regeneration.

1253
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 6: Yes, but that's in this speit's what happened.

1254
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 15: How do you know that? You're just asserting that when

1255
01:18:45,199 --> 01:18:47,079
Paul doesn't make that distinction. How do you know that

1256
01:18:47,119 --> 01:18:51,039
every time Paul talks about baptism is quote spiritual, Well.

1257
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:53,159
Speaker 34: The baptism was an outer confession.

1258
01:18:53,239 --> 01:18:55,359
Speaker 15: You're just restating the question I'm asking you, how do

1259
01:18:55,399 --> 01:18:57,279
you know that that's what Paul means and all those

1260
01:18:57,319 --> 01:18:58,199
passages about.

1261
01:18:58,039 --> 01:19:00,520
Speaker 6: Baptism, because it's all over the Bible.

1262
01:19:01,119 --> 01:19:03,520
Speaker 15: So the answer is it's all over when that's the

1263
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,000
thing I'm asking you. So in other words, so why

1264
01:19:06,159 --> 01:19:07,840
what are you for the third time going to just

1265
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:09,159
tell me your interpretation again?

1266
01:19:10,319 --> 01:19:12,319
Speaker 6: No, it's not my interpretation. Is what the Bible says.

1267
01:19:13,319 --> 01:19:15,399
Speaker 15: That's what you're saying, That's what the Bible says, And

1268
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:17,600
I'm saying no. In John three, I think Jesus is

1269
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:20,600
talking about water baptism, and that's why Acts too. Peter says,

1270
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:23,239
repent and be baptized for the remission of sins? Is

1271
01:19:23,279 --> 01:19:25,479
it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine?

1272
01:19:26,159 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 6: What the bone again happens?

1273
01:19:28,359 --> 01:19:32,279
Speaker 15: Is it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine. Yes,

1274
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:34,399
oh it is. But that's where he says, is the

1275
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:35,359
remission of sins?

1276
01:19:36,319 --> 01:19:38,880
Speaker 34: No, the remission of sins, it doesn't happen with Washington

1277
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:39,319
the water.

1278
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:41,720
Speaker 15: It literally says that in Act two thirty eight thirty nine.

1279
01:19:42,399 --> 01:19:44,680
Speaker 34: No, nobody gets saved by being baptizing the water.

1280
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 15: That's your Yeah, please keep us starting the Protestant doctrine,

1281
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:49,600
which is what I'm challenging, which you said it is

1282
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:52,039
water baptism in actually thirty eight and thirty nine. And

1283
01:19:52,079 --> 01:19:54,079
he says that that is the remission of sentence.

1284
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:57,399
Speaker 6: But listen, when I became a believer, I.

1285
01:19:57,479 --> 01:20:00,239
Speaker 15: This is your subjective interpretation. I don't. It doesn't matter

1286
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:02,279
what you what your personal experience was.

1287
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 34: No, I'm telling you right now there are tens of

1288
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:09,000
thousands of Iranians who have become believers in Jesus and

1289
01:20:09,039 --> 01:20:11,840
they are not able to get baptized because in Iran,

1290
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:15,000
there's not possibility to get arrested or but they love

1291
01:20:15,079 --> 01:20:17,319
the Lord and they're not even baptized, but they're born again,

1292
01:20:17,359 --> 01:20:17,840
they're full of.

1293
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 6: The Holy space.

1294
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:21,239
Speaker 15: Let's just bag in the question. I mean, they may

1295
01:20:21,279 --> 01:20:23,680
be in God's mind and that's fine, but the normative

1296
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:26,079
means by which we do this is said to be

1297
01:20:26,239 --> 01:20:29,439
multiple times throughout the New Testament, actual baptism. So you're

1298
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:31,800
just assuming Protestantism, which is the very thing that I'm

1299
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:34,279
questioning about. So how do you prove Protestantism to me?

1300
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 34: Well, as I said, I'm not a Protestant, was a basically, you.

1301
01:20:39,359 --> 01:20:42,199
Speaker 15: Are a Protestant. Why are you acting like you're not? Okay, evangelical?

1302
01:20:42,279 --> 01:20:42,760
Is that better?

1303
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1304
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:48,720
Speaker 34: So basically what happened with the Protestantism Martin Luther, it

1305
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:53,239
was a protest against Catholic system of you know, justification

1306
01:20:53,359 --> 01:20:54,279
by works.

1307
01:20:54,239 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 6: And unaware on faith plus works. And what all Protestant

1308
01:20:59,079 --> 01:20:59,560
was was no.

1309
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 15: Again, I don't need to I know the history of

1310
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:04,600
the Pross and Reformation. I'm not trying to be rude

1311
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:07,840
to you, but I'm asking you about evangelicalism, which is

1312
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:10,359
what you're part of, and I'm asking you, why should

1313
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:13,520
we accept evangelicalism.

1314
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:16,039
Speaker 34: I guess it's not evangelicalism, it's being.

1315
01:21:16,159 --> 01:21:18,520
Speaker 15: Or being dishonest because you just admitted that you weren't

1316
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:20,039
evangelical like two minutes ago.

1317
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 34: Yeah, evangelical? What is evangelical?

1318
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:23,199
Speaker 6: The Christians?

1319
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:25,359
Speaker 15: I'm not going to argue with you over terms. Where

1320
01:21:25,359 --> 01:21:27,560
do you get your Bible from?

1321
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:29,520
Speaker 6: What do you mean? What am I going about?

1322
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:31,159
Speaker 15: Where do you get the Bible from? Did it just

1323
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:33,079
fall out of the air into Iran?

1324
01:21:35,359 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 6: No? I actually run is illegal to a Bible. So

1325
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:41,279
I don't live in your own now. I live in Israel.

1326
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 34: But when I when I became a believer, I served

1327
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:46,000
for a Bible for three months.

1328
01:21:46,039 --> 01:21:46,800
Speaker 6: I find one.

1329
01:21:46,880 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 15: We're moving on, not falling for that. Jordan Jordan, Michael Jordan,

1330
01:22:14,159 --> 01:22:22,319
I'm mute. We can't hear you, dude. I don't know

1331
01:22:22,319 --> 01:22:24,039
if you don't know, didn't turn your mic on or what?

1332
01:22:24,079 --> 01:22:25,560
But you want to come back, turn your mic on

1333
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:33,239
and come back, We'll go to you. All right. Let's see,

1334
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,239
I thought I was supposed to unmute this, unblock this

1335
01:22:37,279 --> 01:22:44,520
guy who he hasn't showed up. So see this is

1336
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,079
what I'm saying, Like when I block people. It's usually

1337
01:22:47,159 --> 01:22:48,920
for a good reason, and then when they want to

1338
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:51,920
be unblocked, they don't come in debate because that's what

1339
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:52,760
they said they wanted.

1340
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:58,159
Speaker 17: Here we go go ahead.

1341
01:23:07,319 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 9: Hello, okay, okay, I'll teach you later.

1342
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,199
Speaker 6: Oh sorry, I'll be with you in one minute.

1343
01:23:13,199 --> 01:23:17,680
Speaker 15: Okay, bring your mom on to debate. She'll probably did

1344
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:24,880
about in't you. We got a trad cat whose mom's

1345
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,399
fustin at him because he won't get off the computer

1346
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:29,239
in the basement. He's used up his computer time in

1347
01:23:29,279 --> 01:23:32,079
the basement, So bring your mom on to debate.

1348
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:33,600
Speaker 6: Sorry about that.

1349
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:35,399
Speaker 15: Your mom a debate better than you want you to

1350
01:23:35,399 --> 01:23:35,800
bring her on.

1351
01:23:37,039 --> 01:23:42,159
Speaker 9: Oh hey, ja, I tried connecting a few weeks ago,

1352
01:23:42,199 --> 01:23:43,920
but I was having computer issues.

1353
01:23:44,039 --> 01:23:44,720
Speaker 28: Sorry about that.

1354
01:23:45,119 --> 01:23:47,039
Speaker 15: Did your mom let you stay on longer this time?

1355
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:50,520
Speaker 9: That wasn't my mom, that was someone else?

1356
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:57,880
Speaker 6: Okay, go ahead. So I am Catholic.

1357
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,600
Speaker 9: I think I said that on one of my previous

1358
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:07,000
previous appearances. So I definitely do believe in, like, you know,

1359
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:11,680
continuity with the ancient Church and Apostolic succession and all that.

1360
01:24:13,399 --> 01:24:14,159
Speaker 6: I should say.

1361
01:24:14,039 --> 01:24:17,800
Speaker 9: That I was baptized Catholic. I went to a Presbyterian

1362
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,000
church for a little bit when I was like nine,

1363
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:24,159
and I got confirmed Catholic as a teenager. So that's

1364
01:24:24,239 --> 01:24:25,279
my background.

1365
01:24:25,279 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 6: I guess you could say, Okay, so.

1366
01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:33,560
Speaker 9: I'm not Protestant as you know, and I do believe

1367
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:38,680
in Apostolic succession, and I don't believe in like you know,

1368
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:43,039
I don't believe you know when like set of Acantism or.

1369
01:24:43,039 --> 01:24:44,399
Speaker 17: Any anything like that.

1370
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 9: I think those intellectual positions are untenable. So I take

1371
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:51,960
it you as an Orthodox Christian, you have your own

1372
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:55,039
ways to debunk, say, like the old calendarists and like

1373
01:24:55,079 --> 01:24:57,000
the quote unquote genuine orthodox.

1374
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:01,840
Speaker 15: I don't know about my own way, but I have, uh.

1375
01:25:02,079 --> 01:25:04,159
I mean, David Rhan made a whole video that's pretty

1376
01:25:04,159 --> 01:25:08,119
good on this about the legalistic it's actually a Western

1377
01:25:08,159 --> 01:25:10,800
mindset that every all the grace is shut off or

1378
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:17,359
something like that. I mean, what about it? What is it?

1379
01:25:17,399 --> 01:25:19,159
I mean, what is that going to prove against? Like

1380
01:25:19,199 --> 01:25:21,600
I mean, so that'd be like me saying, well, you

1381
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:24,840
have a set of a contest so Roman Catholicism is false,

1382
01:25:25,159 --> 01:25:26,840
Like how does that prove or disprove anything?

1383
01:25:28,159 --> 01:25:30,239
Speaker 9: I would I was just asking what your thoughts on

1384
01:25:30,319 --> 01:25:31,640
like the old calendar.

1385
01:25:32,319 --> 01:25:35,560
Speaker 15: Well, most many old calendars are. Also. My church is

1386
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:36,920
on the old calendar.

1387
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 6: So well, I know that Rokor.

1388
01:25:39,399 --> 01:25:40,119
Speaker 15: I know that.

1389
01:25:42,279 --> 01:25:46,960
Speaker 9: The Russian Orthodox Church and the Serbian Orthodox Church and

1390
01:25:47,079 --> 01:25:50,439
the Georgian Orthodox Church all used the old calendar liturgically,

1391
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:56,600
mm hmm, but I know some of the other countries

1392
01:25:56,600 --> 01:26:00,159
that they used the reformed Julian calendar. There was a

1393
01:26:00,199 --> 01:26:01,880
schism in like the twenties or something.

1394
01:26:05,039 --> 01:26:08,199
Speaker 15: I mean, I would argue that if the church is

1395
01:26:08,239 --> 01:26:13,680
not canonical, then that's really not a church. And I

1396
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:16,920
don't know of any time in history where we were

1397
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,960
supposed to go to a non canonical church. So the

1398
01:26:21,039 --> 01:26:25,399
creation of a parallel ecclesiology to me doesn't make sense.

1399
01:26:28,039 --> 01:26:30,800
Speaker 9: Okay, that definitely does make sense. I do have some

1400
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:35,880
questions about Augustine and how his philosophy shaped the Catholic Church.

1401
01:26:36,159 --> 01:26:40,800
You would talk about this a little earlier, so I

1402
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:44,920
do know about Augustine's doctrine of original sin. How the

1403
01:26:45,039 --> 01:26:47,920
Orthodox don't accept that. They call it ancestral sin. If

1404
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:51,000
I'm not mistaken now, I know that I'm pretty sure

1405
01:26:51,079 --> 01:26:57,319
the Council of Trent said that humans, all humans, are

1406
01:26:57,359 --> 01:26:59,239
guilty of Adam's sin.

1407
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:00,119
Speaker 28: But if I'm not.

1408
01:27:00,079 --> 01:27:05,359
Speaker 9: Mistaken, the current Catholic catechism is more takes a position

1409
01:27:05,399 --> 01:27:08,520
that's more similar to the Orthodox position, and they say

1410
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:13,079
that humans are no longer that is correct, guilty of

1411
01:27:13,119 --> 01:27:13,640
adam sin.

1412
01:27:14,119 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 15: Right, Yeah, the modern Roman Catholic position is much closer

1413
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:22,479
to the Orthodox position distinguishes actual sin from original sin.

1414
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:24,359
I mean that actually goes back to the Middle Ages

1415
01:27:24,399 --> 01:27:28,760
where even when infant limbo was mentioned in the early

1416
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:33,319
Middle Ages, that was attended with the idea that there's

1417
01:27:33,359 --> 01:27:37,399
a distinction between the deprivation of grace and original sin

1418
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:41,680
versus personal guilt, which comes about through actual sin. So

1419
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:45,079
infants did not have personal guilt, but they did have

1420
01:27:45,119 --> 01:27:48,079
the effects of this of the fall, which was the

1421
01:27:48,119 --> 01:27:51,680
deprivation of grace and so forth, hence why we baptize infants.

1422
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:54,880
And the Orthodox we would agree with that, but we

1423
01:27:55,239 --> 01:28:00,439
also would argue that there was still the strand and

1424
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:07,680
the paint of the notion that sin is in some

1425
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:13,079
way passed on in an actual guilt way through seminal transmission,

1426
01:28:13,079 --> 01:28:15,359
which is something that we would disagree with. Sin is

1427
01:28:15,399 --> 01:28:19,119
not transmitted, but the effects of the fall are transmitted.

1428
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:23,319
So that's why you get the recent Vatican statement on

1429
01:28:23,399 --> 01:28:26,840
all this that it did evolve over time in the

1430
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:29,720
Romancalthoy position nowadays is not what it was in the

1431
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:33,119
West in the fifth sixth seventh century.

1432
01:28:33,159 --> 01:28:36,079
Speaker 9: Did this change with Vatican two or was it before that?

1433
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,039
Speaker 15: Well, I would say Vatican two played a role in it,

1434
01:28:40,079 --> 01:28:44,079
because Vatican two did attempt to bring in so called

1435
01:28:44,159 --> 01:28:48,079
quote voices and inspiration from the East. There were a

1436
01:28:48,119 --> 01:28:52,560
lot of periti at Vatican two, like Hans Wor's on Balthazar,

1437
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:56,000
who were very influenced by Eastern theology, so that could

1438
01:28:56,079 --> 01:29:00,279
play a role. But the Vatican statement on Limbo was

1439
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:03,279
not that long ago, so it was a post Vatican.

1440
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:07,720
Speaker 9: Two okay, And that's the one you were talking about

1441
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:09,640
earlier that said infants aren't damned?

1442
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:13,119
Speaker 15: Correct, Well, this is why. Yeah, it's uh, let's see

1443
01:29:13,119 --> 01:29:23,239
when did this come out? Pulling it up there, I

1444
01:29:23,319 --> 01:29:25,600
highly recommend people interested in this topic should read it.

1445
01:29:26,199 --> 01:29:27,720
Doesn't have a date on it, so I'm not sure

1446
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:30,119
when this comes. When this came out, but it's called

1447
01:29:30,119 --> 01:29:33,600
the Hope for Salvation of Infants who die without being baptized.

1448
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:38,960
This was a CDF document. I think under rat Singer

1449
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:41,399
it might have been under John Paul. I don't recall.

1450
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:45,199
Speaker 9: Speaking of baptism the last guy who came on here.

1451
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:48,239
I know in the Catholic Church there's this concept of

1452
01:29:48,279 --> 01:29:51,199
baptism by blood and baptism by desire, which are kind

1453
01:29:51,199 --> 01:29:54,279
of like the non normative means someone would.

1454
01:29:54,119 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 15: Be Yeah, I mean that's true. We believe in that

1455
01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:57,640
in the Orthodox Church.

1456
01:29:57,680 --> 01:29:57,800
Speaker 6: Two.

1457
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,520
Speaker 9: Okay, so that's in the Orthodox tradition as well.

1458
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 15: Yeah, and now if we had gotten further in that discussion, I'm.

1459
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:08,159
Speaker 9: Sure you know about the Catholic heresy of Foeneism.

1460
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:12,000
Speaker 15: Was a big fan of Father Phenie at one time.

1461
01:30:13,119 --> 01:30:16,119
Speaker 9: Yeah. Well, basically the Catholic Church doesn't quld to that

1462
01:30:16,159 --> 01:30:19,079
position obviously. But I do have another question about something

1463
01:30:19,079 --> 01:30:23,920
that was brought up earlier. I think it was with

1464
01:30:24,119 --> 01:30:27,680
I think we're talking about Protestant mariology. And I noticed

1465
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:32,760
a lot of evangelicals online are very adamant that Mary

1466
01:30:34,239 --> 01:30:36,760
had to have had other children and had to have

1467
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:38,640
had relations with Joseph, and that was a Catholic I,

1468
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:41,680
of course believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Did

1469
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:46,239
this idea that he had to have had other children

1470
01:30:46,319 --> 01:30:48,600
or had to have you know, had relations with Joseph.

1471
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:53,000
Is this something that comes from like higher biblical criticism.

1472
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:59,159
Speaker 15: Well, it was proposed by Helvidius in the days of Jerome,

1473
01:30:59,359 --> 01:31:02,000
So I mean it's not it's not a new idea,

1474
01:31:03,159 --> 01:31:08,800
but it's very possible that more recent higher critical scholars

1475
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:11,199
also probably promoted that idea.

1476
01:31:11,279 --> 01:31:14,479
Speaker 9: I do know about Helvidius, and I believe Saint Jerome.

1477
01:31:14,199 --> 01:31:15,640
Speaker 6: Wrote a work.

1478
01:31:16,039 --> 01:31:18,319
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean his views in three D three a

1479
01:31:18,439 --> 01:31:19,000
D if I'm not.

1480
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:20,520
Speaker 15: Mistaken, Yeah, it pulled up.

1481
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 9: Yes, So another question, because I do know about the

1482
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:29,720
higher criticism that came out of I'm sure you know

1483
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:30,479
about people like.

1484
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:34,800
Speaker 28: Adolf von Harnak and what was.

1485
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:39,399
Speaker 15: That other guy, Julius. There's that other guy, uh schlier Marker.

1486
01:31:39,399 --> 01:31:40,479
There's a whole bunch of them.

1487
01:31:40,359 --> 01:31:42,840
Speaker 9: Schlier Marker, that Friedrich Schleiermacher. That's why I was thinking of.

1488
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:45,399
And then there was a lot of big Boltmann. He

1489
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:49,960
was a more contemporary Rudolph Boltmant. Rudolph Boltmann, my bad,

1490
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:51,840
but I know this is one of the.

1491
01:31:53,399 --> 01:31:53,760
Speaker 27: I know this.

1492
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:56,600
Speaker 9: You argue against Protestants a lot that Luther taking out

1493
01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:58,920
the wanting to take out the Epistle of James and

1494
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:03,399
some other books led to this, you know, deconstruction.

1495
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:03,359
Speaker 6: Of the canon.

1496
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:06,880
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think that you can definitely trace higher criticism

1497
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:09,560
to Luther. I mean, I don't think Luther is the

1498
01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:12,720
only influence, but he's a major influence in Germany for

1499
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:16,840
the idea that the Bible is not a book that's

1500
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:22,199
owned and possessed and the purview of the church. It's

1501
01:32:22,239 --> 01:32:25,119
now in the hands of the secular academics to dissect

1502
01:32:25,159 --> 01:32:27,319
and to tell us who the Bible really belongs to

1503
01:32:27,359 --> 01:32:29,319
and what the text really are. And I would say

1504
01:32:29,359 --> 01:32:32,640
if you look at somebody like wes Huff, like, I'm

1505
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:37,039
again glad that wes Huff refuted that black pyramid space bro.

1506
01:32:37,199 --> 01:32:40,760
But I mean, the very thing that wes Huff is

1507
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:44,119
arguing for, ironically, is the idea that the academics are

1508
01:32:44,119 --> 01:32:45,600
the ones that are going to preserve and tell us

1509
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:47,840
what the true texts of the Bible are. Is the

1510
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:52,319
very thing that led to the higher critical scholarship dissecting

1511
01:32:52,319 --> 01:32:53,199
and destroying the Bible.

1512
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:56,840
Speaker 9: This is the guy who was on Joe Rogan recently, right, Yeah,

1513
01:32:57,279 --> 01:32:58,640
he's a Calvinist, isn't he.

1514
01:32:59,319 --> 01:33:01,279
Speaker 15: I know he's a Protestant of some comment. I don't

1515
01:33:01,279 --> 01:33:02,239
know what his saturial.

1516
01:33:02,399 --> 01:33:05,520
Speaker 9: I think he has made some criticisms of Catholicism.

1517
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:07,079
Speaker 6: I don't know if he has of Orthodoxy.

1518
01:33:07,119 --> 01:33:09,920
Speaker 15: Yeah, he has, He's obviously he's critical of them both.

1519
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:12,399
I mean, he's a committed Protestant of some of some sort.

1520
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,960
Speaker 9: Oh are you going to debate him at any point?

1521
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:20,079
Speaker 15: Or well, I've offered, but he says that he's not

1522
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:22,880
in a place where he's ready to do any more debates,

1523
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:24,960
So I don't think it'll ever happen. But I'm i

1524
01:33:25,199 --> 01:33:27,439
put out of video saying that I'm more than happy

1525
01:33:27,479 --> 01:33:28,000
to debate him.

1526
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,399
Speaker 9: Okay, I haven't watched the Joe Rogan episode with him,

1527
01:33:30,399 --> 01:33:32,640
but I might because I'm kind of interested to hear

1528
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:34,600
what he says. But I do notice that a lot

1529
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:38,399
of Protestants have this very individual, individualistic view of the Bible, like.

1530
01:33:38,399 --> 01:33:41,199
Speaker 6: It's just in yeah, in my bedroom.

1531
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:43,600
Speaker 15: Well that's called the right, that's called the right of

1532
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:46,079
private interpretation, and that was actually one of the core

1533
01:33:47,159 --> 01:33:49,880
historic doctrines of the Protestant Reformers.

1534
01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:53,640
Speaker 29: So yeah, yeah, are you familiar with this?

1535
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:55,520
Speaker 6: This website?

1536
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:57,479
Speaker 9: It's kind of like non are you familiar with this,

1537
01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:01,560
like non denominational Christian website questions.

1538
01:34:02,239 --> 01:34:04,199
Speaker 15: I've seen it, Papa, but I'm not familiar with it.

1539
01:34:04,239 --> 01:34:07,039
But hey, appreciate you coming on. Thank you for being

1540
01:34:07,079 --> 01:34:10,439
a good nature guy. About the jokes. We like to

1541
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:13,319
have fun over here. Dang, we got twenty almost twenty

1542
01:34:13,319 --> 01:34:17,079
five people in line. So today I'm taking giving a

1543
01:34:17,079 --> 01:34:21,640
precedent to Protestants who disagree. If you're a Protestant disagrees,

1544
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:25,439
raise your hand. You can ask questions, but if you

1545
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:27,920
would like to debate, please keep it to making arguments.

1546
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:31,800
That means that you actually give the basis for your position.

1547
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:33,880
You don't just keep asserting your position over and overhere,

1548
01:34:33,880 --> 01:34:37,159
you tell us why your position's true. So hopefully you

1549
01:34:37,199 --> 01:34:40,000
have some idea about what it means to make an argument.

1550
01:34:40,079 --> 01:34:43,319
Not trying to be rude to you. Let's see somebody's

1551
01:34:43,359 --> 01:34:44,920
raising their hand. We've got so many people in here.

1552
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:51,279
Let's see King's fool. Okay, so this is the guy unmuted,

1553
01:34:58,399 --> 01:35:04,880
Go ahead, howdy.

1554
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:09,199
Speaker 35: So you made a video a while back talking about

1555
01:35:09,279 --> 01:35:12,279
Protestism and criticizing them a bit, and this open debate

1556
01:35:12,319 --> 01:35:15,439
performed plat format that you do and three issues you

1557
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:18,720
said you stayed with. It was it was a historical.

1558
01:35:19,319 --> 01:35:25,159
It was anti sacramental, anti mystical, and just flat out dumb. Yes,

1559
01:35:26,399 --> 01:35:28,680
the problem that I have with that is specifically a

1560
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:33,079
historical and the issues I have with that, and some

1561
01:35:33,119 --> 01:35:36,159
of the issues you gave for why protestant is antihistorical

1562
01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:40,640
was they don't follow the liturgical warship properly. They don't

1563
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:43,520
do certain customs and traditions that were practiced by the

1564
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:48,039
early Church, and don't have the exact same pieces of scripture.

1565
01:35:49,119 --> 01:35:49,600
Speaker 6: Some example.

1566
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:51,920
Speaker 15: Those are some examples. There could be many more listed.

1567
01:35:52,079 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 35: Sure, And the issue I have with that, if Protestantism

1568
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:02,600
is a historical by those, I would say, so is Orthodoxy.

1569
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:04,039
Speaker 15: And how is that?

1570
01:36:06,119 --> 01:36:06,399
Speaker 27: Well?

1571
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:12,079
Speaker 35: For starters Constantinople fell in fourteen fifty three.

1572
01:36:12,279 --> 01:36:14,199
Speaker 15: You can't be serious that this is an argument, that

1573
01:36:14,279 --> 01:36:15,199
you think this is an argument.

1574
01:36:16,239 --> 01:36:17,840
Speaker 28: It's just it's the start of one.

1575
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:22,439
Speaker 15: Yeah, what does this have to do with the theology.

1576
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:25,239
This is why I block this guy, because this is

1577
01:36:25,279 --> 01:36:32,560
too too dumb. I mean, are you the synoticon of Orthodoxy?

1578
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:33,520
Speaker 36: Yeah?

1579
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:37,039
Speaker 35: Because I believe in the sonoticon of Orthodoxy. In one

1580
01:36:37,039 --> 01:36:39,920
of the statements you give Thanksgiving, and that is the

1581
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:43,640
glorification and of the defenders of Orthodoxy might not mistaken.

1582
01:36:44,680 --> 01:36:47,039
Speaker 15: Probably, I don't remember. It's a giant text.

1583
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:52,640
Speaker 35: It's a giant text that's different among different branches of Orthodoxy.

1584
01:36:52,279 --> 01:36:56,039
Speaker 15: Right because different bishops can add their own personal For example,

1585
01:36:56,119 --> 01:36:59,439
Metropolitan Seraphim a Pereas adds the Joe's witnesses to the

1586
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:00,680
condom name texture.

1587
01:37:03,279 --> 01:37:05,600
Speaker 35: And the problem I have with that is the statement

1588
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:09,039
of the defender of Orthodoxy, which originally within the church

1589
01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:14,039
was the Holy Roman Emperor, as was stated by Anthony,

1590
01:37:14,079 --> 01:37:18,960
Patriarch of Constantinople in thirteen ninety three to a to

1591
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:23,560
a letter to Basle the First, the Grand Prince of Moscow, saying,

1592
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:26,479
my son, it is not possible for Christians to have

1593
01:37:26,520 --> 01:37:28,319
a church and not have an emperor.

1594
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:30,479
Speaker 28: Church and Empire have a great.

1595
01:37:30,319 --> 01:37:31,760
Speaker 6: Unity and community.

1596
01:37:32,039 --> 01:37:34,279
Speaker 35: It is not possible for them to be separated from

1597
01:37:34,319 --> 01:37:36,760
one another. For the Holy Emperor is not as other

1598
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:39,439
rulers and the governors of other regions.

1599
01:37:40,039 --> 01:37:43,319
Speaker 28: And this is because the emperors from.

1600
01:37:43,159 --> 01:37:48,199
Speaker 35: The beginning establish and confirmed true religion Eustia in all

1601
01:37:48,399 --> 01:37:50,359
inhabited world Okiomennia.

1602
01:37:51,039 --> 01:37:55,520
Speaker 28: They convoke the Yeah, I don't know to pronounce.

1603
01:37:55,279 --> 01:38:00,119
Speaker 15: The word obviously, and so orthodoxy is false because z

1604
01:38:00,119 --> 01:38:00,720
Antium fell.

1605
01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:04,840
Speaker 28: I mean, it's not just that Bonantium fell.

1606
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:10,199
Speaker 15: Puppet all right, Now we see why I booted this guy,

1607
01:38:10,479 --> 01:38:13,239
and I was right to boot that guy. This is

1608
01:38:13,279 --> 01:38:19,199
too stupid to even entertain. So, guys, I know you

1609
01:38:19,239 --> 01:38:22,239
want entertainment, but when you asked me to bring back

1610
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:27,960
Banantium and these kinds of goofballs, it's usually because they're

1611
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:31,920
booted for a reason. So let's get on my banana

1612
01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:35,560
phone and let's call up Banantium and let's talk to

1613
01:38:35,640 --> 01:38:39,600
the Bananatine emperor and see if we can get any

1614
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:43,840
history about why he's not ruling on an earthly throne

1615
01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:50,119
to help ensure Banantium. Hello, Hello, Can anyone else call

1616
01:38:50,159 --> 01:38:51,720
in the banana phone and see if they can get

1617
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:56,279
the Bananantine Emperor? Hello? I just hear monkey is chirping.

1618
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:00,920
I think I called the Matt Dillon monkey line accidentally.

1619
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:13,960
I got Matt Dolamuchi on speed dial. True, byzantium fell.

1620
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:16,439
I don't know if you guys knew this, but byzantium fell,

1621
01:39:17,199 --> 01:39:23,600
So time to pack it up. Wortho, bros. Your religion's dead.

1622
01:39:25,079 --> 01:39:28,119
I don't where is bumpkin? He keeps thumbing down, like

1623
01:39:28,159 --> 01:39:31,439
fifty times in a row. Do you want to come on? Dude?

1624
01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:34,880
I don't understand what your what's your mental illness is?

1625
01:39:35,119 --> 01:39:35,199
Speaker 6: Like?

1626
01:39:41,159 --> 01:39:43,279
Speaker 15: Where are you at, Bumpkin? I mean, are you not

1627
01:39:43,399 --> 01:39:45,880
in the line to speak? You just want to thumb down?

1628
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:54,760
This is so stupid. Look, uh, just to like me

1629
01:39:54,960 --> 01:40:00,319
as Byzantine Emperor of the Banana Tine Emperor of the

1630
01:40:01,079 --> 01:40:07,159
are you'll cool ya mine and the problem solved? Bro Okay, Bumpkin.

1631
01:40:07,199 --> 01:40:10,359
If you're not gonna come on to debate, then you're

1632
01:40:10,399 --> 01:40:13,039
just clogging up with all of your memes, I mean,

1633
01:40:13,039 --> 01:40:24,199
your emojis, so you're wasting everybody's time, by the way

1634
01:40:24,239 --> 01:40:25,439
I would. I don't even want to live in the

1635
01:40:25,479 --> 01:40:27,960
Byzantine Emperor Empire. I want to live in the Banana

1636
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:34,399
teen Emperor Empire, the Banana teen Empire where we're all

1637
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:41,800
matt Dela monkeys. Go ahead, Hello?

1638
01:40:42,279 --> 01:40:42,520
Speaker 6: Hello?

1639
01:40:44,159 --> 01:40:45,199
Speaker 28: No, no, sorry? Hello?

1640
01:40:45,319 --> 01:40:45,840
Speaker 6: Can you hear me?

1641
01:40:47,039 --> 01:40:47,239
Speaker 15: Yes?

1642
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:53,680
Speaker 6: What the fuck is that?

1643
01:40:56,039 --> 01:40:56,720
Speaker 15: That's me? Bro?

1644
01:40:57,880 --> 01:40:59,319
Speaker 6: Oh, you're making point of how I speak.

1645
01:40:59,840 --> 01:41:01,600
Speaker 15: I do impressions. I do them all the time.

1646
01:41:02,319 --> 01:41:03,880
Speaker 6: That's not very Christian, is Oh?

1647
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:05,920
Speaker 15: Here we go? That's a pious of you to point

1648
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:07,399
out how impressions are not Christian.

1649
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:09,319
Speaker 6: That's not very christ like now, is it?

1650
01:41:09,680 --> 01:41:12,119
Speaker 17: Okay?

1651
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:12,760
Speaker 6: No?

1652
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:15,439
Speaker 8: Well, have you ever had a psychedelic experience?

1653
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:21,239
Speaker 15: Oh, he's getting even even deeper. Were you praying while

1654
01:41:21,239 --> 01:41:23,600
you were on your psychedelic experience? Was it mystical?

1655
01:41:25,319 --> 01:41:25,640
Speaker 6: Well?

1656
01:41:26,279 --> 01:41:28,439
Speaker 15: I mean, are you praying for me?

1657
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:28,760
Speaker 17: Now?

1658
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:34,000
Speaker 6: Well? You know, basically Hell is real? You know that, right?

1659
01:41:34,039 --> 01:41:34,680
Hell is real?

1660
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:36,720
Speaker 15: Are you looking forward to me going there?

1661
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:45,000
Speaker 6: No? You know that Tibetans are right. Basically reincarnations.

1662
01:41:46,039 --> 01:41:47,720
Speaker 15: Have an actual lunatic here.

1663
01:41:48,319 --> 01:41:49,000
Speaker 6: Do you know that?

1664
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:53,359
Speaker 15: Good job, dude? It never fails that when the people

1665
01:41:53,439 --> 01:41:56,600
are super pious and they want to talk about you

1666
01:41:57,039 --> 01:42:01,960
christ like that, they're it's you got. The entertainment is

1667
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:10,880
about the flow. Cost Listen, I'm having fun today. I

1668
01:42:10,880 --> 01:42:16,800
don't care. It's all good. The Tibetans are right. You

1669
01:42:16,840 --> 01:42:19,119
go to hell, but you get reincarnated. What am I

1670
01:42:19,159 --> 01:42:23,279
coming back as, hopefully as a banana teen emperor of

1671
01:42:23,359 --> 01:42:24,800
the Banana Empire? What's up?

1672
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:25,000
Speaker 17: Man?

1673
01:42:25,079 --> 01:42:31,920
Speaker 15: I'm mute? Cost? Is you a BHR bro? I'm mute?

1674
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:38,520
Speaker 6: You're here all right? Ju is it me?

1675
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:39,600
Speaker 15: I'm I up? Yes, sir?

1676
01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:40,880
Speaker 3: Uh?

1677
01:42:41,039 --> 01:42:44,359
Speaker 9: Just a few questions I've only heard you one time.

1678
01:42:44,319 --> 01:42:45,039
Speaker 6: In another space.

1679
01:42:45,039 --> 01:42:48,039
Speaker 37: But what are your thoughts on uh, positive Christianity and

1680
01:42:48,079 --> 01:42:49,920
national socialism?

1681
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:51,760
Speaker 15: Positive Christianity. I don't even know what that is.

1682
01:42:53,439 --> 01:42:55,000
Speaker 6: Okay, we could we could skip that. I could I

1683
01:42:55,119 --> 01:42:55,920
send you some links.

1684
01:42:56,039 --> 01:42:59,399
Speaker 38: It's essentially the type of Christianity that the National Socialist

1685
01:42:59,439 --> 01:42:59,960
wan attenstedt.

1686
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:04,079
Speaker 15: Here we go, Here comes the Feds. Good job moving on,

1687
01:43:11,039 --> 01:43:14,840
Here come the Feds. I'm mute, dude, just kidding. Who

1688
01:43:15,039 --> 01:43:18,279
who's up next? We're on a roll here with quack

1689
01:43:18,279 --> 01:43:26,000
a doodles quack a doodle do. Okay, where's this bumpkin dude?

1690
01:43:26,560 --> 01:43:29,560
Because all he does is thumb down and it's like

1691
01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:35,479
clogging up my screen. So where are you wasting this?

1692
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:38,960
You just wasting time? Dog, bumpkin? Are you gonna come

1693
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:51,800
to date otherwise? Immediately you first out the block and

1694
01:43:51,920 --> 01:44:06,359
get rid of that other dude.

1695
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:13,000
Speaker 39: Hey, Yet the start of the stream, he said that

1696
01:44:13,560 --> 01:44:17,560
a high taper faid was out of the style, A

1697
01:44:17,640 --> 01:44:21,800
high taper faid. Yes, And if you think that in

1698
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:24,399
your orthodox I mean you're their best guy.

1699
01:44:24,840 --> 01:44:26,119
Speaker 6: So like, if you get.

1700
01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:30,279
Speaker 39: That wrong, how much else you gonna get wrong? Me

1701
01:44:30,319 --> 01:44:32,760
and my Protestant buddies. We got some high taper fates, so.

1702
01:44:33,119 --> 01:44:36,000
Speaker 15: I knew what would hit you below the belt and

1703
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:37,199
raw you up.

1704
01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:40,000
Speaker 6: It was brutal. It was brutal.

1705
01:44:40,039 --> 01:44:43,520
Speaker 15: I mean, are you Are you sucking on I p

1706
01:44:43,680 --> 01:44:49,039
A right now too? Yes, sir, you guys come out

1707
01:44:49,039 --> 01:44:52,840
of a factory dog. Yes, what's what's on your mind?

1708
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:54,880
Speaker 6: Oh? No, that does all I have to say. I

1709
01:44:55,359 --> 01:44:55,760
just wanted to do.

1710
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:57,199
Speaker 15: That's all you had. I thought you were going to

1711
01:44:57,239 --> 01:44:58,279
come with some heat, dude.

1712
01:44:59,359 --> 01:45:00,960
Speaker 6: I mean I don't have that much heat. You know.

1713
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:04,000
Speaker 15: It's like, well, if you keep drinking those I pas,

1714
01:45:04,039 --> 01:45:05,640
you will you can be sweating because you're going to

1715
01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:12,159
be a man boob, a big old man bob. But

1716
01:45:12,279 --> 01:45:14,159
we're on a roll today. Actually, that guy, I like

1717
01:45:14,199 --> 01:45:17,800
that guy. That was funny. What good grief? We got

1718
01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:24,359
like twenty three people. Now today is feral. We got

1719
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:32,079
feral people on here. Who's up next? Max?

1720
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:33,119
Speaker 6: There we go.

1721
01:45:35,479 --> 01:45:37,319
Speaker 15: You know, those feral days are the funnest because they're

1722
01:45:37,319 --> 01:45:40,479
the most entertaining to Jay.

1723
01:45:42,439 --> 01:45:44,279
Speaker 9: I swear you've been ignoring me for like the.

1724
01:45:44,239 --> 01:45:47,439
Speaker 15: Past hour, But it's because I'm scared. That's why I

1725
01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:50,119
have no no idea who you are you're a blank profile,

1726
01:45:50,239 --> 01:45:55,119
but I sensed that the blank profile would destroy me,

1727
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:56,720
So I'm super scared of you.

1728
01:45:58,640 --> 01:45:59,760
Speaker 6: Actually, i'm scared of you.

1729
01:45:59,800 --> 01:46:02,760
Speaker 22: I've seen you debate people like Madala HUNTI and really

1730
01:46:02,960 --> 01:46:04,520
really smart atheist.

1731
01:46:04,079 --> 01:46:04,239
Speaker 6: Like.

1732
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:09,640
Speaker 22: Pretty intimidating guy. But I'm not a Christian. I'm not

1733
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:13,880
a Protestant or a Catholic. I'm an I'm an atheist agnostic,

1734
01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:16,920
and I actually have a verse that will either make

1735
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:20,039
or break Christianity. And I post it in the chat

1736
01:46:20,079 --> 01:46:21,960
section of this space. If you want to click on

1737
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:24,319
that button there and show.

1738
01:46:24,119 --> 01:46:26,640
Speaker 15: Your audience, why don't you just read it?

1739
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:30,640
Speaker 9: Well, I think it'd be better if they could.

1740
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:31,000
Speaker 6: All see it.

1741
01:46:32,439 --> 01:46:33,119
Speaker 15: What's the verse?

1742
01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:36,800
Speaker 9: Revelation sixteen twelve.

1743
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:40,880
Speaker 15: All right, I'll pull it up here.

1744
01:46:41,760 --> 01:46:44,560
Speaker 22: We actually, I think it's Revelation six twelve. It's either

1745
01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:47,399
Revelation sixteen twelve or Revelation six twelve.

1746
01:46:49,159 --> 01:46:51,640
Speaker 9: The move to talks about the phrase river dry up.

1747
01:46:52,399 --> 01:46:56,079
Speaker 15: So you don't even know, but you're gonna bibble scholaris here.

1748
01:46:56,279 --> 01:46:58,720
Speaker 9: Well, no, I know, I know which.

1749
01:46:59,199 --> 01:47:01,600
Speaker 15: It's not six and it's not sixteen too, So you

1750
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:04,680
don't even know the verses that you're gonna okay.

1751
01:47:04,479 --> 01:47:05,680
Speaker 28: It's sixteen, it's sixteen.

1752
01:47:05,760 --> 01:47:07,119
Speaker 6: No, it's sixteen twelve.

1753
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:09,159
Speaker 15: Okay, or wasting everybody's time.

1754
01:47:10,039 --> 01:47:12,720
Speaker 22: No, no, no, And it says Andy six Angel Poorta

1755
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:15,119
is vile upon the Gray Phraates and the water there

1756
01:47:15,319 --> 01:47:16,840
was dried up that way, that the way that the

1757
01:47:16,920 --> 01:47:21,920
Kings of the East might be prepared, And basically the

1758
01:47:21,960 --> 01:47:24,680
phrase river is predicted to dry up in twenty forty.

1759
01:47:25,079 --> 01:47:27,960
So if this doesn't happen, then Christianity will be confirmed.

1760
01:47:27,640 --> 01:47:29,960
Speaker 15: As a false throne. You're so stupid, dude. I can't

1761
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:32,479
even handle like the idiocy of this. I don't believe

1762
01:47:32,479 --> 01:47:33,800
that this is a future prediction.

1763
01:47:36,199 --> 01:47:36,720
Speaker 6: What do you think it?

1764
01:47:41,399 --> 01:47:53,640
Speaker 15: No, it's revolution twenty seven thirty Heavan, Please don't call

1765
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:56,520
in if your IQ is not above eighty, please just

1766
01:47:56,920 --> 01:48:04,119
spare us. I know people want entertainment, but Evan, Jay,

1767
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:05,560
how's it going?

1768
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:09,399
Speaker 38: Yep, No debates some questions, but just wanted to uh

1769
01:48:09,880 --> 01:48:13,880
tell you my thanks to my appreciation. I was chrismated

1770
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:18,760
on theophony over the last week. So yeah, that's it.

1771
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:22,000
Speaker 15: Hey, thank you appreciate it, man, Thank you many years

1772
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:23,159
to you. Glad to hear that dog.

1773
01:48:29,399 --> 01:48:35,159
Speaker 17: Josie, Hello, mister Jason, how are you doing?

1774
01:48:37,239 --> 01:48:39,239
Speaker 6: Hello, mister Jason. You hear me?

1775
01:48:40,920 --> 01:48:45,760
Speaker 34: Yeah, I just have a question about this thing.

1776
01:48:45,880 --> 01:48:46,079
Speaker 6: Man.

1777
01:48:46,159 --> 01:48:48,840
Speaker 9: It's the Trinity doesn't make any.

1778
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:49,319
Speaker 6: Sense, all right?

1779
01:48:50,600 --> 01:48:56,039
Speaker 15: That was really funny, Albert, It is a Jamie said,

1780
01:48:56,079 --> 01:48:58,720
is a full moon? Ye, mercurys and mercury is in

1781
01:48:58,840 --> 01:49:09,920
retrogaate retrogade. It's in retrogade. Mercury is in retro gay. Hello,

1782
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:15,520
I'm you dude. You've been You've been yapping on the mojis.

1783
01:49:15,560 --> 01:49:15,920
What's up?

1784
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:19,319
Speaker 6: What's up?

1785
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:20,159
Speaker 28: Room?

1786
01:49:20,239 --> 01:49:20,760
Speaker 6: What's up?

1787
01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:21,159
Speaker 14: Jay?

1788
01:49:21,279 --> 01:49:22,479
Speaker 6: What's up everybody?

1789
01:49:22,880 --> 01:49:25,079
Speaker 9: Since we're hitting up with the Bible coats.

1790
01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:28,319
Speaker 27: Matthew seventeen twenty, bye, blah blah blah, boring stuff.

1791
01:49:29,039 --> 01:49:34,560
Speaker 30: If you have faith, as the mustard seed, you will

1792
01:49:34,600 --> 01:49:39,039
say to this this mountain move from here to there,

1793
01:49:41,680 --> 01:49:42,520
and it will.

1794
01:49:42,279 --> 01:49:45,439
Speaker 27: Move and nothing will be impossible for you.

1795
01:49:46,119 --> 01:49:49,600
Speaker 30: I love the space, I love of what you're doing.

1796
01:49:50,279 --> 01:49:52,720
Speaker 6: Keep going on. Jesus is great.

1797
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:57,840
Speaker 27: But always remember, in seventeen seventy six, when our beautiful

1798
01:49:57,920 --> 01:50:02,640
country was created, all actually were kicked out because we

1799
01:50:02,680 --> 01:50:03,600
don't want the role.

1800
01:50:09,000 --> 01:50:12,960
Speaker 15: Next, who is a protest of that disagrees has an

1801
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:21,399
actual argument? Raise your hand? We got twenty two people.

1802
01:50:22,359 --> 01:50:27,239
Carlos abrils me badly got into spot bro.

1803
01:50:30,359 --> 01:50:34,560
Speaker 37: Okay, Jay, I have a quick question about canonicity for saints.

1804
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:38,079
I felt like it was kind of strange that there

1805
01:50:38,079 --> 01:50:42,520
were some claims that the Rokor was saying that certain

1806
01:50:42,560 --> 01:50:44,960
people are canonized as saints when they shouldn't have been,

1807
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:48,079
and that it was kind of propagated, or they'd be

1808
01:50:48,119 --> 01:50:49,520
considered martyrs.

1809
01:50:49,119 --> 01:50:52,479
Speaker 6: Fighting for Russia in an inappropriate way. I just didn't

1810
01:50:52,520 --> 01:50:54,000
really know what to make of that.

1811
01:50:54,880 --> 01:50:58,760
Speaker 15: I thought you were talking about the Romanov servants and

1812
01:50:58,880 --> 01:51:01,600
jon Hus. What do you mean fighting in an improper way?

1813
01:51:01,640 --> 01:51:03,359
I don't know what that means.

1814
01:51:04,119 --> 01:51:07,079
Speaker 37: Well, I've heard that the current patriarch has said that,

1815
01:51:08,039 --> 01:51:10,319
you know, people were active in the war in Ukraine

1816
01:51:10,359 --> 01:51:12,880
could be considered martyrs for the church and whatnot.

1817
01:51:14,399 --> 01:51:16,439
Speaker 15: I'm not exactly sure what he said. I mean, he

1818
01:51:16,479 --> 01:51:19,520
could have said that it might be a controversial statement

1819
01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:21,039
and there might be some people in real corps that

1820
01:51:21,079 --> 01:51:24,239
disagree with it, but also, I mean, defending your homeland

1821
01:51:24,279 --> 01:51:28,720
and dying for it could be considered a type of martyrroom.

1822
01:51:28,960 --> 01:51:31,079
Speaker 37: Okay, and I have one question related to Yakub.

1823
01:51:33,239 --> 01:51:34,720
Speaker 15: Everything about Yakuba is true.

1824
01:51:35,479 --> 01:51:38,680
Speaker 26: Okay, I heard theos ours were killed in a conspiracy

1825
01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:40,479
about Yakub.

1826
01:51:41,640 --> 01:51:42,880
Speaker 6: I know I'm just rolling, but.

1827
01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:54,680
Speaker 15: That's all right, But everything about Yakuba is true. So yes, yeah,

1828
01:51:54,720 --> 01:51:58,279
I think in the Orthodox Church, canonicity for saints or

1829
01:51:58,319 --> 01:52:00,880
being a saint is not It's not the same ideas

1830
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:04,720
what Roman Catholics think. So Romancalis think that, like you did,

1831
01:52:05,560 --> 01:52:07,319
it's not just the miracles, but you have to live

1832
01:52:07,359 --> 01:52:09,239
a life of what they call heroic virtue and all

1833
01:52:09,239 --> 01:52:12,279
this kind of stuff. And then you know, the ghostbusters

1834
01:52:12,279 --> 01:52:14,600
in Rome investigate your case and they determine if there

1835
01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:19,039
really were three miracles based on your background or excuse me,

1836
01:52:19,079 --> 01:52:22,720
the intercessions and all this kind of stuff. But you'll

1837
01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:25,279
notice there's a lot of odd balls in the Orthodox

1838
01:52:25,319 --> 01:52:26,960
Church and history that have become saints, and a lot

1839
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:29,640
of times the Orthodox Church, saintthood is often tied to

1840
01:52:31,439 --> 01:52:34,199
one significant noble thing that was done or act or

1841
01:52:34,239 --> 01:52:37,520
martyrdom or something like that. So not everybody who is

1842
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:41,880
a saint Orthodox Church necessarily lived an immaculate lifetime of

1843
01:52:41,920 --> 01:52:45,279
saintly living. So there's a lot of kings who did

1844
01:52:45,319 --> 01:52:47,960
some odd things. Even Constantine is a saint Orthodox Church.

1845
01:52:48,000 --> 01:52:51,000
You didn't always do everything in a saintly way. And

1846
01:52:51,000 --> 01:52:53,960
there have been sainted kings and kings of Serbia and

1847
01:52:54,039 --> 01:52:58,920
other areas that are saints that didn't necessarily do an think.

1848
01:52:59,159 --> 01:53:01,640
I didn't even think the wro Oz, you know, lived

1849
01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:08,479
a saintly perfect life. But they were martyrs, and so

1850
01:53:09,560 --> 01:53:13,680
it's possible that a person who dies in the defense

1851
01:53:13,720 --> 01:53:16,279
of their homeland could be a martyr. But I doubt

1852
01:53:16,319 --> 01:53:19,199
that the patriarch was saying that everyone who dies in

1853
01:53:19,279 --> 01:53:21,399
war is a martyr. That that seems far fetched. But

1854
01:53:21,399 --> 01:53:25,600
I'm not sure what the exact statement is. And also,

1855
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:28,600
I mean, if I'm not even sure what road course

1856
01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:30,720
position on that is, they might disagree. I don't know.

1857
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:35,000
I mean, a patriarch can say things wrong. We're not papists, right,

1858
01:53:35,079 --> 01:53:39,399
we don't agree with everything that the patriarch costs Antonople says.

1859
01:53:40,039 --> 01:53:43,720
You know so, but I don't think that it's wrong,

1860
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:48,239
or I do think it's virtuous to defend your homeland.

1861
01:53:48,800 --> 01:53:52,600
Isn't there that story too of in the Russo Japanese War,

1862
01:53:53,479 --> 01:53:56,279
there's a story of one of the Japanese bishops who

1863
01:53:56,439 --> 01:54:01,600
didn't want to be involved in the conflict. But he

1864
01:54:01,680 --> 01:54:04,199
still said that it was right for him to pray

1865
01:54:04,279 --> 01:54:08,479
for his people and the Japanese people in the unfortunate

1866
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:10,560
situation that they were if they were going to war

1867
01:54:10,560 --> 01:54:14,359
against Russia. So there's a lot of things in history.

1868
01:54:14,399 --> 01:54:18,760
They're complex. There's not going to be these easy, you know,

1869
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:23,359
like spurgatism, black and white, simple situations where they're all

1870
01:54:23,359 --> 01:54:25,439
the bad guys, wor Ald the good guys. Life is

1871
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:28,479
very complex and it's not you're not always able to

1872
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:34,000
fit everything into like a all or nothing scenario. Who

1873
01:54:34,359 --> 01:54:38,279
is up next? We're giving precedent to precedent, excuse me

1874
01:54:38,319 --> 01:54:41,800
to preference to Protestants today. If you're a prosident who disagrees,

1875
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:44,880
you go to the headline, raise your hand. Is there

1876
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:48,319
any Protestants in the chaw We got still twenty plus people?

1877
01:54:49,319 --> 01:54:56,039
All right, Steiger, and then we'll go to you. How

1878
01:54:56,039 --> 01:54:58,800
are you a Protestant when you got an icon as

1879
01:54:58,840 --> 01:55:06,600
your picture that I'm making Since, okay, Steiger, are you there?

1880
01:55:06,600 --> 01:55:07,279
Are you connecting?

1881
01:55:08,920 --> 01:55:09,119
Speaker 6: Well?

1882
01:55:09,119 --> 01:55:11,399
Speaker 15: He tries to connect over just a couple of super jets.

1883
01:55:23,479 --> 01:55:25,560
How long we've been going for? Over two hours? Doesn't

1884
01:55:25,600 --> 01:55:27,600
we just started? What the heck, dude, Tom is we're

1885
01:55:27,600 --> 01:55:31,560
in some kind of time warp two hours. Dang, so

1886
01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:34,920
we just started this. Okay, Well he can't connect. I

1887
01:55:34,920 --> 01:55:36,640
don't know what his problem is, Stiger, you want to

1888
01:55:36,680 --> 01:55:44,720
try again, There's no, You're not connecting. Coffee cup, the doors,

1889
01:55:44,760 --> 01:55:48,079
the doors, three dollars, Sam Harris. Sam Harris signed your

1890
01:55:48,079 --> 01:55:52,239
Golden Girls paraphernalia in his closet. Absolutely, go ahead.

1891
01:55:52,239 --> 01:55:52,600
Speaker 6: What's up?

1892
01:55:52,600 --> 01:55:53,199
Speaker 15: Coffee cup?

1893
01:55:55,279 --> 01:55:55,600
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1894
01:55:55,680 --> 01:56:01,319
Speaker 31: So does the Eastern or our church thing that Saint

1895
01:56:01,319 --> 01:56:02,640
Augustine is a saint?

1896
01:56:03,399 --> 01:56:06,079
Speaker 15: Yes, he's called a saint of the Fifth acta medical council.

1897
01:56:07,520 --> 01:56:09,319
Speaker 6: Okay? Did he old heresies?

1898
01:56:10,159 --> 01:56:13,600
Speaker 15: He held to errors? An error is not necessarily heresy.

1899
01:56:13,960 --> 01:56:16,840
Every church father, in some way has some error that

1900
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:18,079
doesn't make them all heretics.

1901
01:56:19,279 --> 01:56:19,560
Speaker 6: Okay.

1902
01:56:19,600 --> 01:56:23,560
Speaker 31: So the philioque absolute divine simplicity or in heresies.

1903
01:56:24,239 --> 01:56:26,680
Speaker 15: A heresy is something that's declared to heresy by the

1904
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:30,760
church eventually in a council. Augustine didn't believe anything erroneous

1905
01:56:30,800 --> 01:56:32,920
at his time that he knew was a heresy. So

1906
01:56:33,119 --> 01:56:35,520
i philioque is not condemned until the Middle Ages.

1907
01:56:36,439 --> 01:56:41,079
Speaker 31: Okay, so before the nice and kind of the Nicean Council.

1908
01:56:41,239 --> 01:56:43,560
If someone held that Jesus was in God or go

1909
01:56:43,680 --> 01:56:46,880
substantial with the Father, then they were in heretics, right according.

1910
01:56:46,600 --> 01:56:49,920
Speaker 15: To that law. No, no, because some errors are significant

1911
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:54,199
enough that the person that holds them. It's the attitude

1912
01:56:54,239 --> 01:56:56,640
that they have and the humility that they have. So,

1913
01:56:56,680 --> 01:56:59,520
for example, when Augustine writes on the Trinity, he says

1914
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:02,880
in book three, I am speculating, and I give these

1915
01:57:02,920 --> 01:57:06,479
books to the judgment of the universal Church, and if

1916
01:57:06,479 --> 01:57:09,520
there's anything wrong in them, they can be rejected. So

1917
01:57:09,560 --> 01:57:12,840
that's the attitude of humility that for example, Origin didn't have.

1918
01:57:13,039 --> 01:57:15,920
Origin was obstinate to the end of his life in

1919
01:57:15,960 --> 01:57:18,560
his heresies, and he did not submit to the judgment

1920
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:21,800
of the Church, whereas Augustine did. So Augustine's humility is

1921
01:57:21,840 --> 01:57:24,720
what covers the theological speculations and mistakes that he had,

1922
01:57:24,760 --> 01:57:27,000
whereas for the people that you're talking about, it's different.

1923
01:57:28,079 --> 01:57:28,960
Speaker 6: Okay, gotcha?

1924
01:57:29,640 --> 01:57:33,399
Speaker 31: Was He later corrected though, by other bishops and other theologians.

1925
01:57:34,000 --> 01:57:36,760
Speaker 15: If he hands his book to the Church for judgment,

1926
01:57:37,119 --> 01:57:40,159
and that doesn't mean that it happens overnight, if the

1927
01:57:40,239 --> 01:57:43,439
Church doesn't in his lifetime judge it, but the Church

1928
01:57:43,520 --> 01:57:45,760
judges by the time of the Fifth Ecumenical Council that

1929
01:57:45,840 --> 01:57:48,000
he's a saint. And by the way, do you know

1930
01:57:48,039 --> 01:57:51,680
what book the Fifth Ecumenical Council lists as his pre

1931
01:57:51,800 --> 01:57:55,760
eminent theological work. No, okay, it's none of those books.

1932
01:57:56,279 --> 01:57:59,119
It's against the Manicheans, so it's not on the Trinity,

1933
01:57:59,680 --> 01:58:01,359
or of God or any of these other works.

1934
01:58:02,880 --> 01:58:05,800
Speaker 6: Okay, gotcha, that was my question. Thank you. Right.

1935
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:08,600
Speaker 15: So, heresy is a sin of will and obstinacy, not

1936
01:58:08,760 --> 01:58:12,520
just a sin of mistake or error. And not even

1937
01:58:12,640 --> 01:58:15,840
Roman Catholics believe that he got everything right. They think

1938
01:58:15,880 --> 01:58:19,039
he made all kinds of theological mistakes, which would mean

1939
01:58:19,039 --> 01:58:22,000
that Roman Catholicism is false if that's the criteria, Because

1940
01:58:22,319 --> 01:58:26,960
Augustine taught a pretty strict doctrine predestination that the Roman

1941
01:58:27,000 --> 01:58:29,760
cally Church eventually doesn't adhere to. So if that's the case,

1942
01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:32,279
then in the Roman Catholic system, he's also a heretic.

1943
01:58:32,720 --> 01:58:37,920
But pretty much everybody has a degree of flexibility for

1944
01:58:38,800 --> 01:58:43,199
saints in the church, because no saint got everything as

1945
01:58:43,199 --> 01:58:45,880
an individual saint correct. Many of them got all kinds

1946
01:58:45,920 --> 01:58:48,039
of things wrong. Many of them got the canon of

1947
01:58:48,039 --> 01:58:50,680
scripture wrong, and that's an important thing. But it doesn't

1948
01:58:50,720 --> 01:58:53,159
make them all heretics because they made a mistake. Making

1949
01:58:53,239 --> 01:58:56,600
mistake is not the essence of a heresy. Obstinacy and

1950
01:58:56,680 --> 01:59:03,159
pride is the essence of heresy. I forgot who the

1951
01:59:03,199 --> 01:59:05,680
next guy was. Who's the next Protestant that wants to

1952
01:59:05,680 --> 01:59:13,439
come on here? There's eighteen people and none of you

1953
01:59:13,479 --> 01:59:18,720
are Protestant. I don't understand. It's Protestant debate day and

1954
01:59:18,760 --> 01:59:29,880
there's okay, here we go. Thomas, Thomas the Lama.

1955
01:59:26,399 --> 01:59:27,079
Speaker 6: Hey, what's up?

1956
01:59:27,680 --> 01:59:32,760
Speaker 36: Just had a couple of questions, like about Eastern Orthodox relationships.

1957
01:59:32,800 --> 01:59:34,039
Speaker 6: I guess to the Reforms.

1958
01:59:35,479 --> 01:59:39,960
Speaker 36: Okay, so I guess for starters, the main condemnation of

1959
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:42,840
the Reformed would be their relationship to Roman Catholicism.

1960
01:59:42,880 --> 01:59:50,239
Speaker 15: Correct, the Orthodox condemnation of the Reformed would be the

1961
01:59:50,319 --> 01:59:52,680
relation to Roman Catholicism. I don't know even know what

1962
01:59:52,680 --> 01:59:53,800
that means, Like.

1963
01:59:54,119 --> 01:59:56,399
Speaker 6: I suppose I can qualify the question.

1964
01:59:56,720 --> 01:59:58,520
Speaker 36: So the Reformed are going to try to make some

1965
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:05,439
claim about their Apostolic succession, at least the High Reform right,

1966
02:00:05,840 --> 02:00:08,520
and they're going to trace that through Roman Catholicism. They're

1967
02:00:08,520 --> 02:00:12,159
not going to trace it through like either the East split.

1968
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:14,199
Speaker 15: I've never heard of a Reform person who believes in

1969
02:00:14,199 --> 02:00:16,319
apostolic succession, so I don't even know what that means.

1970
02:00:16,640 --> 02:00:19,119
Speaker 36: Oh interesting, all right, maybe this is some niche view,

1971
02:00:20,399 --> 02:00:21,359
I guess the second question.

1972
02:00:21,520 --> 02:00:25,880
Speaker 15: I mean, maybe an Anglican Calvinist, High Church Anglican Calvinists

1973
02:00:25,880 --> 02:00:27,640
would try to claim that's the only.

1974
02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:29,479
Speaker 36: I mean, yeah, yeah, I've heard that from High Church

1975
02:00:29,520 --> 02:00:31,840
Anglicans through Reformed Anglicans even, but I've heard it from

1976
02:00:31,880 --> 02:00:34,279
like OPC guys, right, Orthodox Presbyterians.

1977
02:00:34,600 --> 02:00:36,359
Speaker 15: No, I mean, well, I mean, if they want to

1978
02:00:36,399 --> 02:00:40,039
redefine what the word appstock succession means, then that's what

1979
02:00:40,039 --> 02:00:43,840
they're doing, because there's no Protestants who are classical Reformation

1980
02:00:43,920 --> 02:00:46,600
Protestants that believe that there's a transmission of the gift

1981
02:00:46,600 --> 02:00:49,359
of the Holy Spirit in the laying on of hands.

1982
02:00:50,279 --> 02:00:51,920
Speaker 36: Kind of in the same way that a Lutheran is

1983
02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:54,880
going to argue for the historicity and apolasticity of the

1984
02:00:54,960 --> 02:00:55,600
Lutheran Church.

1985
02:00:55,880 --> 02:00:58,600
Speaker 15: But that's not what I just said, right.

1986
02:00:58,479 --> 02:01:00,640
Speaker 6: No, I'm recognizing the distinction.

1987
02:01:01,319 --> 02:01:04,520
Speaker 15: Then it's not apostolic session. It's redefining the terms to

1988
02:01:04,640 --> 02:01:08,920
make Protestantism and continuity with some made up traditions, just

1989
02:01:08,960 --> 02:01:12,239
like they do the same thing with Niceno constant Politan

1990
02:01:12,279 --> 02:01:15,359
cree where says one Holy Catholic Apostolic and they redefine

1991
02:01:15,359 --> 02:01:16,520
that to men the invisible Church.

1992
02:01:16,920 --> 02:01:19,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'll just can side that it's like redefining. No

1993
02:01:19,640 --> 02:01:20,199
problem there.

1994
02:01:20,479 --> 02:01:24,840
Speaker 36: So the second question would be I've seen maybe I

1995
02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:27,920
obviously need to read more about Eastern Orthodox resources on

1996
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:30,319
the sovereignty of God, but it seems to me that

1997
02:01:30,399 --> 02:01:34,479
like certain historic views within the Eastern Orthodox can be

1998
02:01:34,600 --> 02:01:39,680
consistent with like maybe four point or three point five,

1999
02:01:40,399 --> 02:01:42,199
you know, tool of affirming Calvinists.

2000
02:01:42,279 --> 02:01:43,600
Speaker 6: Do you agree or disagree? No?

2001
02:01:45,159 --> 02:01:47,640
Speaker 36: Okay, which of the points? Like, do you flat out

2002
02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:51,960
reject all of them? Fair enough? All right, I'm not

2003
02:01:51,960 --> 02:01:53,640
gonna take up too much time. If you ever want

2004
02:01:53,640 --> 02:01:55,720
to have like a formal debate, I d M.

2005
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:57,239
Speaker 6: Do you? So? Thanks for the space?

2006
02:01:57,319 --> 02:01:58,279
Speaker 15: Well how about right now?

2007
02:01:59,159 --> 02:02:01,520
Speaker 36: No, I'm not good enough at this. I have other

2008
02:02:01,560 --> 02:02:03,760
people that I can talk to here or link you with. Again,

2009
02:02:06,079 --> 02:02:07,119
I mean, what their names?

2010
02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:10,039
Speaker 15: Is it? Somebody with an audience over a few hundred followers?

2011
02:02:11,119 --> 02:02:11,680
Speaker 5: Uh?

2012
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:14,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, a couple of them. Jonathan Speaks would.

2013
02:02:13,920 --> 02:02:14,439
Speaker 32: Be one of them.

2014
02:02:14,720 --> 02:02:16,000
Speaker 15: And how big is his audience.

2015
02:02:16,840 --> 02:02:19,640
Speaker 36: I'd probably guess around five six hundred.

2016
02:02:21,479 --> 02:02:28,560
Speaker 15: Now, thanks, thanks for your time again. The Twitter spaces

2017
02:02:28,640 --> 02:02:31,840
are for four or five hundred two three five thousand.

2018
02:02:32,479 --> 02:02:34,880
I'm not doing any formal debates unless you have a

2019
02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:39,039
large following. I didn't work my butt off debating one

2020
02:02:39,079 --> 02:02:43,600
thousand goobers to debate all the top atheists and Muslims

2021
02:02:43,600 --> 02:02:46,079
to spend all my time debating a bunch of five

2022
02:02:46,119 --> 02:02:49,239
hundred follower people who want to chase clout and grow

2023
02:02:49,279 --> 02:02:52,840
their audience. So that's why you get the Twitter space,

2024
02:02:52,920 --> 02:02:55,119
and they don't come here because all they want is

2025
02:02:55,560 --> 02:02:56,399
a big audience.

2026
02:02:57,720 --> 02:03:10,119
Speaker 17: Jud Are you there?

2027
02:03:10,319 --> 02:03:14,079
Speaker 6: Yeah, I can hear you. It's real quiet. Can you

2028
02:03:14,079 --> 02:03:14,359
hear me?

2029
02:03:14,560 --> 02:03:17,199
Speaker 15: Yeah?

2030
02:03:17,239 --> 02:03:19,840
Speaker 40: Hey, I don't know why your volume is super long

2031
02:03:19,840 --> 02:03:22,680
on my phone, but I'm here, Okay.

2032
02:03:22,720 --> 02:03:25,560
Speaker 6: I had a question for you. So I'm a Protestant, I'm.

2033
02:03:25,439 --> 02:03:31,319
Speaker 40: An Evangelical and I've been inquiring into Orthodoxy and it's

2034
02:03:31,399 --> 02:03:32,640
really fascinating stuff.

2035
02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:34,359
Speaker 6: I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

2036
02:03:34,600 --> 02:03:36,680
Speaker 40: The thing that I am having a hard time really

2037
02:03:36,760 --> 02:03:42,000
understanding is your guys view on Christ's sacrifice and it

2038
02:03:42,039 --> 02:03:45,319
comes to the shedding of blood and the old Testament

2039
02:03:45,439 --> 02:03:49,800
sacrificial system. You know, that's really deeply ingrained and Protestant

2040
02:03:49,880 --> 02:03:50,680
view of salvation.

2041
02:03:51,039 --> 02:03:53,880
Speaker 15: And literally, so what I'm gonna say is, I'm gonna

2042
02:03:54,840 --> 02:03:58,119
what I'm gonna say is go watch the video Protestant

2043
02:03:58,119 --> 02:04:01,720
Penal Substitution Jay Dyer. We've literally covered this probably five

2044
02:04:01,760 --> 02:04:05,039
hundred times. It comes up in every open space. So

2045
02:04:05,199 --> 02:04:08,760
if you look at my clips channel, you'll find multiple

2046
02:04:08,760 --> 02:04:14,680
things on PSA. I try to be rude, I'm just like,

2047
02:04:15,600 --> 02:04:19,560
I mean, it's like probably a thousand times we've responded

2048
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:27,960
to that. Go ahead, yep.

2049
02:04:29,239 --> 02:04:33,640
Speaker 41: Hey, so also Protestant here, very disgruntled Protestant.

2050
02:04:34,560 --> 02:04:36,279
Speaker 6: I would like to go East Orthodoxy.

2051
02:04:36,319 --> 02:04:41,439
Speaker 41: But my wife has voiced some concerns about y'all's mariology

2052
02:04:41,479 --> 02:04:46,279
of Holy the Togos, and do y'all see her as

2053
02:04:46,840 --> 02:04:49,479
totally sinless, like she has never sinned once.

2054
02:04:49,319 --> 02:04:50,039
Speaker 6: In her life?

2055
02:04:50,439 --> 02:04:54,880
Speaker 41: Or is that she is the most pure, most blessed,

2056
02:04:54,920 --> 02:04:57,159
and and like I get all that part, but do

2057
02:04:57,199 --> 02:05:00,039
y'all can make the contention that she's never sinned.

2058
02:05:00,079 --> 02:05:03,319
Speaker 15: Her, Yeah, she's a spatless virgin and God's grace preserved

2059
02:05:03,319 --> 02:05:04,000
her from.

2060
02:05:03,840 --> 02:05:10,760
Speaker 41: Sinning, and so that would be a stumbling block for

2061
02:05:10,880 --> 02:05:14,319
my wife is that she would not be comfortable saying

2062
02:05:14,439 --> 02:05:19,319
that Mary only Tokos is sinless. She would say that

2063
02:05:19,359 --> 02:05:21,600
she's not pure, if that's fine, but she would have

2064
02:05:21,640 --> 02:05:24,560
the issue of making the jumpsy sinless.

2065
02:05:24,760 --> 02:05:26,640
Speaker 6: What do you what do you recommend?

2066
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:31,560
Speaker 15: Just a little bit of a reminder. I'm going to

2067
02:05:31,600 --> 02:05:37,359
be live at the Tampa Bay Screams Horror Convention. This

2068
02:05:37,520 --> 02:05:42,399
is a decent sized convention with a rowdy troop of

2069
02:05:42,560 --> 02:05:46,560
rascally b movie actors and others who will be there

2070
02:05:46,640 --> 02:05:49,840
as well. I will be giving a lecture that evening,

2071
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:52,479
a dinner lecture that is separate from the convention, but

2072
02:05:52,520 --> 02:05:55,640
we will also be at the convention and I will

2073
02:05:55,680 --> 02:06:00,520
be presenting the Dark Secrets of Horror Films present. So

2074
02:06:00,840 --> 02:06:03,600
join me tonight that night, excuse me, January nineteenth, in

2075
02:06:03,680 --> 02:06:08,039
Tampa Bay. Get your tickets below this audio. In the

2076
02:06:08,039 --> 02:06:10,279
show description, you'll see the links to head and over

2077
02:06:10,359 --> 02:06:12,800
to the checkout. And it's going to be a lot

2078
02:06:12,840 --> 02:06:15,479
of fun. The first thirty people, I think it's almost full,

2079
02:06:16,279 --> 02:06:21,920
already have their free copy of Esoteric Hollywood reserved for them,

2080
02:06:22,199 --> 02:06:24,680
and of course they'll be signed copies and other things

2081
02:06:24,720 --> 02:06:27,479
like that as well as the other books. So get

2082
02:06:27,479 --> 02:06:32,239
your tickets now. January nineteenth, that's eleven days the Tampa

2083
02:06:32,279 --> 02:06:34,239
Bay Screams Horror Convention