WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.200 Oh hey, it's still the guy at the falafel truck 2 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:04.639 who gives you extra hummus, Ali Ward, And here is 3 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:08.679 part two of one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. 4 00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:11.160 Here we are this is science based advice on how 5 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:13.960 to balance your work with your real life, how to 6 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:16.879 get your little sparkle back even when the world is 7 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:21.600 raining turds. It's hobbies, pastimes, community, and according to this guest, 8 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:24.640 the author of the book The Connection Cure, it's the 9 00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:30.120 prescriptive power of movement, nature, art, service, and belonging. And 10 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:32.960 I couldn't put that whole thing in the subtitle. And 11 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.520 if I just wrote social prescribing, you're like, I don't 12 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:37.960 know what that is. So that's why it's why humans 13 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:40.920 need hobbies. That's very much in a nutshell anyway to 14 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:44.280 hear all the foundations, including the etymology and the history 15 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:47.679 of this field, so many examples and papers, and why 16 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:50.119 this guest doesn't like the title of her own book. 17 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:53.799 You just hop your beautiful butt back to part one. Okay, 18 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.159 start there, come meet us back here part two. So 19 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:58.320 let's get to part two. But first, thank you patrons 20 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:00.399 for supporting the show for as little as one dollar 21 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.000 a month and submitting your questions. We couldn't do the 22 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.200 show without you. Thanks to everyone walking around in Ologies 23 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:09.159 merch we have some summer stuff like hats and even 24 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:10.280 bathing suits. 25 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:10.560 You can wear. 26 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:15.040 Also, we have Smologies episodes for free in their own 27 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.280 feed wherever you get podcasts. If you're looking for shorter, 28 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.879 swear free episodes that are suitable for classrooms and people 29 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.560 sensitive just swearing, those Smologies episodes linked in the show 30 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:29.560 notes tell everyone also for free. Thank you for supporting 31 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.280 Ologies by leaving reviews. They really matter. I read them 32 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:34.120 all and then I pick one to spotlight as proof. 33 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:39.040 And this week Live LW called Ologies your favorite scientists 34 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:42.040 favorite science podcast, which means the world to me, And 35 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:43.799 they said, this is a science podcast that all my 36 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:47.159 fellow grad students listen to. I love the enthusiasm, the humor, 37 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:50.239 the heartfelt moments, and you know I'm listening to those 38 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:54.079 Spooktober episodes all year long. Thank you for that, LEVILW. 39 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:56.640 It means a lot. Also, look up our Spooktoba episodes 40 00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:00.000 are so good. Okay Salu. Genealogy Part two it's all 41 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:03.079 about social prescribing and so many occupational therapists by the 42 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:05.040 way listen to part one and said that they were 43 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:08.159 like screaming and just bellowing with joy. So here's a 44 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:10.919 shout out to all the occupational therapists who know firsthand 45 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:13.800 that this stuff works. So sit tight knit a scarf. 46 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:17.960 Let's hear about forest bathing, taking life lessons from rehab, 47 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:21.199 How privilege affects accessibility to hobbies, and what to do 48 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.280 about that. Why I used to call all night writing 49 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:28.520 sessions at the newspaper club Karashi. How to forest bathe 50 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:33.080 most effectively, as researched by science. How capitalism literally kills us? 51 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:35.360 How to figure out what lights you up? How to 52 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.719 schedule time for hobbies if you have no time for hobbies, 53 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:40.840 free stuff you can get to make you happier. What 54 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:43.759 if social interaction gives you the willies? What if depression 55 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:46.639 keeps you from doing the things that lift depression. How 56 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:49.319 do you hang out in a culture that's so substance based? 57 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:52.520 Is there any data to support chilling out? Where to 58 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.039 volunteer to check off a lot of life improving boxes, 59 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:57.680 if protesting is a good hobby? And once again, why 60 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:00.240 a fuck you walk is an act of defiance with 61 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:05.080 author journalist Deep Diver and absolutely lovely and altruistic person 62 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:28.639 and Salue geneologist Julia Jules Hatts in this part two. Okay, 63 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:30.520 so we ended part one right before we got to 64 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:32.960 the Patreon questions, and she was down to clown a 65 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:35.319 bit longer. So let's hear from patrons of the show 66 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:38.240 who submitted their questions in advance. You can do that 67 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:41.560 via patreon dot com slash ologies. You can join for 68 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:44.039 as little as a dollar a month, and we also 69 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:46.840 have options to leave voice questions so you can be like, hey, 70 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:51.199 that's me, such as someone who calls themselves so many questions. 71 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:52.479 First time question asker. 72 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:57.000 Says, Hi, Ali and Julia, what are the homeworks of 73 00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:00.840 good activities for social prescriptions? Absolutely not going to be 74 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:03.599 replacing the practitioners who should do actual prescribing for my 75 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:06.960 family and friends, but have had some good intention suggestions 76 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:09.960 backfire or just fall short. What was I missing in 77 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:12.960 my suggestions that didn't actually reach the goal we had. 78 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:17.480 Let's say someone has tried social subscribing and it didn't 79 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:21.279 quite do it for them. Do you feel like it 80 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:23.519 has to hit a couple of those buttons to maybe 81 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:27.040 really gel or how do you find the right social 82 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:29.879 prescribing that's going to work for you absolutely. 83 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.000 So I think there's a couple of things there. Love 84 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:35.680 these questions, so many questions, and I also think that 85 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:40.600 are they suggestions or were they prescriptions. It's one thing 86 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:43.839 to say, hey, you should volunteer more, you should exercise more. 87 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:47.879 It's another to say, hey, there's one spot left in 88 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:51.639 this you know eukulele class that meets on Wednesday nights, 89 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:53.800 and I know that's when you have an early day, 90 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:56.360 so it works for your schedule. I'm going to prescribe 91 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:57.759 you a spot, and I'm going to check in and 92 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.639 I'm going to follow up. And I vetted it right, 93 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.040 and so what I should say also, And this is 94 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.160 again where the US could learn a lot. But in 95 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:08.560 the UK and other places that of social prescribing, there's 96 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.160 a position called the link worker that's hired by the 97 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:16.279 doctor's office or the therapist's office, whose job it is 98 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.759 to actually spend a long time with the patients. Instead 99 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:23.639 of fifteen minutes, they get sixty, get to know what 100 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:26.519 really really matters to them. So the prescription is going 101 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:28.920 to be much more specific in tailored to what matters 102 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:31.480 to the person and then the rest of their time 103 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:35.000 is spent vetting the groups in the community. 104 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:39.399 Oh so there's literally a job when social prescribing is 105 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:42.600 offered of a link worker who figures out what will 106 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:45.480 be good for you and where and when it happens, 107 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:48.560 and if it's actually good or reliable, that's usually part 108 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:48.959 of the deal. 109 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:51.360 So it might be for so many questions that they 110 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:53.800 maybe suggest to a group, but you know that group 111 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:56.199 kind of sucked, or that group maybe it didn't suck, 112 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:58.639 but maybe it wasn't the right fit for the right person. 113 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:02.279 And I also think, look, I know lots of things 114 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:05.360 matter to people. So I think the more specific you 115 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:09.399 can make the question making it you help people reflect 116 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:14.000 on things they loved to do as a kid, things 117 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:16.519 they would do if they had more time in their week, 118 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:20.519 the last time they experienced awe. What's the thing that 119 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:23.399 makes you light up when you talk about it. What's 120 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:25.600 the thing that you could spend eight hours doing and 121 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:28.079 there's absolutely no distraction in the world that could pull 122 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:31.120 you from that. The more you can get closer to 123 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:33.920 those kinds of what matters to you questions, and the 124 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:38.160 more you can prescribe not suggest a specific activity that 125 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:40.839 corresponds to it. I think you'll have more success. 126 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:45.120 And a recent guide published by the Global Social Prescribing 127 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:49.399 Alliance in conjunction with the World Health Organization, titled Social 128 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:52.199 Prescribing Around the World, A World Map of Global Developments 129 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:55.879 and Social Prescribing across different health system contexts, offers case 130 00:06:55.879 --> 00:07:03.160 studies for twenty four different countries from England to Canada, Portugal, India, Iran, Poland, Japan, USA, 131 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:07.319 South Korea, Italy, Bunch more dozen something. And in twenty nineteen, 132 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:10.519 we did an episode titled Field Trip, How to Change 133 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:13.439 Your Life via the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles, 134 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:18.120 And it took me until this aside to realize that's 135 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:21.759 exactly why volunteering at the museum did change my life. 136 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:24.879 I was in an environment that thrilled me. I was 137 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:29.279 being of service teaching random adults or school groups about 138 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:32.680 bugs or coyote pelts. And I got to hang out 139 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:36.720 in the morning meetings with other volunteers from retirees to 140 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:40.480 grad students, and I even got some good walking around 141 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.680 the halls and in the nature gardens there. And I'll 142 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:46.600 link that episode in the show notes. But even years 143 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:49.879 after I volunteered there, it continues to change my life 144 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:53.519 every day this podcast wouldn't exist without that. It was 145 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:56.680 inspired by the museum and I was able to fully 146 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.519 return to my most authentic self. It was a huge, 147 00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:02.199 huge change in my life. So let me be a 148 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:05.680 case study that this shit really does work. Figure out 149 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:08.759 what lights you up? Get yourself there, like your life 150 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:10.519 depends on it. It just might. 151 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:11.160 Now. 152 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:13.319 I was lucky at the time, though, to be freelance 153 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:17.040 with a flexible schedule so I could accommodate one three 154 00:08:17.079 --> 00:08:19.920 hour window a week to go get paid zero dollars. 155 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.639 Not everyone has that, And Theoklin asked about economic privilege 156 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:27.000 when it comes to social prescribing, where as a Park says, 157 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:28.920 I love this and I wish we didn't have to 158 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:33.000 prescribe things that seem so inherently human, but asked how 159 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:38.480 do you address patients' concerns around scarcity like scarcity of time, childcare, money, etc. 160 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.039 And those thoughts were also on the minds of Chelsea 161 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:45.039 and her dog Charlie and others. And what about barriers? 162 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:48.360 Rachel Gothrie asked how do people overcome financial barriers or 163 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.519 lack of leisure time to participate in social prescription. She's 164 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:54.919 Munger asked what if you don't have time eating dog 165 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:56.320 care for a living, wants to know how you can 166 00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:58.559 follow through and not have it interfere with work. And 167 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:02.679 then also London Nowell asked, as a teacher in Spooney, 168 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:06.240 I have very limited free time and limited energy. For 169 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:09.120 more on Spoonis and chronic health conditions, you can see 170 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:12.600 our recent two part long COVID episodes or our Disability 171 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:14.879 Pride episode, which we will link in the show notes. 172 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:18.799 David said, how what about if you're concerned about contagious 173 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.519 diseases so overcoming these various barriers. I know those are 174 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:24.480 different prongs. 175 00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:27.240 But yeah, well let's take time because that is the 176 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.799 big one, right And that actually corresponds to a story 177 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:33.240 from the book about this woman named Heather, lives in Vermont, 178 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:38.080 working three jobs, is the primary caretaker for her grandmother. 179 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.879 Is someone who has always loved being outside, but yet 180 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:46.039 because of the stressors of her life, she's forced to 181 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.039 spend most of it inside until she goes to her doctor. 182 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:52.559 The doctor says, you know, we're running this pilot with 183 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:57.960 this group come Alive outside. They host these awesome activities 184 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:01.399 for people you know, deal like Heather was dealing with 185 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:04.960 stress and all these kind of health issues, you know, 186 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:07.200 can I prescribe you a spot in it? And at 187 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:10.960 first Heather is thinking like, I don't have time for that, 188 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:12.960 But then you know, when the doctor and when the 189 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:16.440 research frames this as being in nature is actually something 190 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:19.679 that restores your attention and can make you feel like 191 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:23.840 you have more time, that totally changes it. And that 192 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:25.120 was true for Heather. 193 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:25.799 Right. 194 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:28.279 It's not like she could magically make her three jobs 195 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.679 go away, it's not like she could stop being her 196 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:35.159 grandmother's caregiver. But because those two hours a week that 197 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.039 was a doctor prescribed activity, the same way we would 198 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:42.240 be judicious about going to our therapy sessions. If we 199 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:46.519 can have that sort of same level of seriousness and 200 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:50.399 dedication paid to our social prescriptions, then I think people 201 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:53.840 would find like Heather found that not only was there 202 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:55.799 the two hours a week for it, but that it 203 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.600 was something she wanted to put more into her schedule 204 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:02.360 because again, the feelings of stress and burnout that so 205 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:04.639 many of us are dealing with it. I would say 206 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.559 for all of these five kinds of social prescriptions, but 207 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:11.919 especially nature, this can make us feel like we have 208 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:13.240 our time back. 209 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:19.519 And again, those five facets are movement art, nature, service, 210 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:20.759 and belonging. 211 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:23.720 There's actually a really cool study related to this time points. 212 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:27.240 There were these Japanese businessmen in the nineteen seventies and 213 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:31.720 nineteen eighties who were severely, severely overworked. I mean they 214 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.320 were working like seventy eighty hours a week. Reports of 215 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.840 heart failure, reports of suicide, very tragically, all of this 216 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:42.080 went up up up as their workload did. 217 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:43.519 So. 218 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:47.320 Actually, in this kind of wild government campaign as a 219 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:50.679 public health thing, the government said, you know what, we 220 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:53.639 need to do something about this chronic burnout stress there 221 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:56.240 was a word for it, god else, and they said, 222 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:00.559 we are going to prescribe you time in the We're 223 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:04.039 gonna invest in this campaign called chinrin Yoku forest bathing, 224 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:09.000 because we believe that you being in this forest environment 225 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:13.399 is gonna reverse some of those stress responses. So they 226 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:16.840 invested in this big time. They took these stressed out 227 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:19.840 businessmen in Tokyo. Of course it was men at first, 228 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:23.279 but then the women, and they found that just like 229 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:27.159 a little bit of time in the forest dramatically reduced 230 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:32.399 their blood pressure, dramatically increased their production of natural killer 231 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:35.840 cells which go on to fight cancer. All of these 232 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:38.960 sort of physiological markers of stress went down, down, down, down, 233 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:41.639 down down. And when you do that, not only are 234 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:45.360 you preventing heart disease mental health conditions down the line, 235 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:51.000 but you're also giving those businessmen better tools to cope 236 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:53.879 with their feelings of stress and burnout in the present. 237 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:58.480 In her book, Julia details that later studies with different demographics, 238 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:02.559 not just businessmen, showed forest bathers had other health gains 239 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:06.840 like increased serotonin and lowered adrenaline and cortisol, which are 240 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:10.440 stress hormones, as well as lower blood pressure and heart rate, 241 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:15.600 and they reported less anxiety, depression, anger, fatigue, and confusion. 242 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:17.919 And for more, you can see the twenty twenty two 243 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:22.159 studies effects of forest environment on health promotion and disease prevention, 244 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:25.720 which can help us understand the difference between just chilling 245 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:28.919 in the woods versus forest bathing. They're kind of the same, 246 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:32.320 but the latter is a little more immersive. So forest 247 00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:35.759 bathing at its best engages all your senses. In the 248 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:39.679 paper details site green color, yellow color, and red color, 249 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:44.720 forest landscape, hearing forest sounds, Listen to the birds singing 250 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:48.919 and the breeze rustling in the leaves, touch touching trees, 251 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:52.120 put your whole body in the forest atmosphere. It says 252 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.480 taste involves eating foods and fruits from the forest or 253 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.519 tasting the fresh air and smell which says special good 254 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:03.240 smell fragrance from trees and flowers. And we also touch 255 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:06.399 on the so many reasons to huff a tree in 256 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.679 the dendrology episodes with j Casey Clapp and in the 257 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.279 forest Entomology one with doctor Kristin Wickert. And we also 258 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.799 have a bryology episode about moss with the actual doctor 259 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:19.799 Robin Wallkimmerer, who is wonderful and holding those in the 260 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:22.480 show notes, I am at this point very sold on 261 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:26.039 never living my life without forest bathing. On the rag 262 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:27.480 sign me up. I'm into it. 263 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:29.879 Forest bathing. I love that. 264 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:33.440 That's a term that is starting to catch on. Just 265 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:37.080 kicking it in the forest. It needed its own term, 266 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:41.320 It needed like a verb behind it. And Honeybear said, 267 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:44.279 what about connecting with other nature beings? For example, I 268 00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.360 consider the forest to be one of my most supportive 269 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.879 communities and feel deeply nourished by spending time with my 270 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.559 tree friends. And then Kathleen Sach said that they've taken 271 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.320 up wildlife photography and bird watching, and that day spent 272 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.519 bird watching or really grounding, because it involves tuning into 273 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:01.960 more than one sense at a time. You're using sight 274 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:05.240 and sound. But we did have people too, you know, 275 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:07.519 going through the social and community aspect of it. We 276 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:10.799 had a ton of people self described very socially anxious 277 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:14.840 scal Meghan Recliffe, Attie Cappello, Citi Bitpond, and Olive Wing. 278 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:18.360 First time question askers words said, is there any difference 279 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:21.720 in success rates for social prescribing for neurodivergent people versus 280 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.559 neurotypical And they say someone with autism socializing can cause 281 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.679 extreme stress and mental exhaustion. Is there right or wrong 282 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:29.919 way to go about this technique as someone who's autistic 283 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.039 to make it less stressful? And we had a ton 284 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:36.120 of people Desert Paint Frog, Zach Everett, Peregrin Nova, Robin 285 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.240 stonebo Susan g who asked, in Robin's words, do you 286 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:40.639 have any tips for people who have a lot of 287 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:46.200 anxiety around social situations or are introverts? So, yeah, let's 288 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.679 say that hanging out with new people especially is like 289 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.360 a lesson in sweaty palms and bubblegut. 290 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:57.879 Absolutely, what do you do you are absolutely right to 291 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:01.159 feel that way, and I'm so great for these questions because, 292 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.039 let's be honest, you know, social prescribing not a great name, 293 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:08.519 especially if your baseline is somebody who struggles with social anxiety. 294 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:13.519 Like that sounds like hell. So what I would say 295 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:15.879 is that I have a story to back this up. 296 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:17.799 In the book, there was a man named Nick who 297 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:24.039 dealt with social anxiety ADHD, identified as neurodivergent. If I 298 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.919 had told him about there's a thing called social prescribing 299 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:31.559 doctors or prescribing activities that promote connection, he would have said, hell, no, 300 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:35.480 I'm so out, like as anybody would right that gives them, 301 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:38.279 you know, palm sweats and all that stuff. What instead 302 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.639 happened with Nick is that he happened to love fishing. 303 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:48.000 Very solitary activity, very sort of peaceful activity. You know, 304 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.399 not a lot of small talk going on in the pond. 305 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:52.639 Let me tell you when when you're fishing, like you 306 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:56.279 would be really focused on the water. And so Nick, organically, 307 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:58.879 as somebody who loves fishing and would do this by 308 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.639 himself in his spare free time, would go out there 309 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:05.680 would fish, saw a group doing it, and the leader 310 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:07.720 of that group eventually came up to Nick and said, 311 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:11.880 you know, asked him very specific questions about fishing, which 312 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:14.880 people with sort of neurodivergence they tend to love to 313 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.559 talk about specific topics that are of interest to them. 314 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:19.799 Wait, is this fucking play about us? 315 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:25.079 Eventually Nick ends up joining this group. It's called Tackling Minds. Yeah, 316 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:26.160 I know you'd love that pun. 317 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:26.880 Yeah. 318 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:29.799 Started by somebody who also identified sort of on the 319 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:34.319 neuro divergent spectrum and really made it a place where 320 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.440 nobody had to talk to each other. If you wanted 321 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.720 to come and just post up with your rod and 322 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.559 be silent the whole day, you could totally do that. 323 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.400 And you know, ironically, in an episode about health, I'll 324 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:48.440 say that when I went to visit this social prescription, 325 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:52.160 they're all like smoking cigarettes, there are drinking pepsis out 326 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.200 of the bottle, like not typically the things we associate 327 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:58.359 with health. But for those people, because of the environment, 328 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:02.680 it didn't encourage an authentic connection. It just encouraged people 329 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.279 who happened to all love fishing to do it together. 330 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.000 I think that is what really was effective for Nick, 331 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:11.720 and is what I would say to listeners who might 332 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.599 feel like this sounds really scary. I would say that 333 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.039 there are lots of groups that are tailored to the 334 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:23.000 interests and needs of people with different you know, connection preferences. 335 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:25.960 Yeah, the idea of a quiet circle but you're all 336 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.519 doing the same thing also sounds great. As someone who 337 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:34.000 talks for a living, sometimes in social situations, I just 338 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:36.920 want to sit there like a lump, absolutely, you know, 339 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.119 just because I talk all day. I love talking all day. 340 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.400 I love my job, but sometimes I just want to 341 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:42.920 just kick it and not have to think of what 342 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:43.559 I'm going to say. 343 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:45.559 Yeah, so that's cool. 344 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:47.599 That's also where it seems like a music group could 345 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:50.359 be great because you're a moost to just make a 346 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:51.039 music right. 347 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:53.640 Your you can? Yeah, your you can. 348 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:57.200 And you know, it's funny because obviously I'm sure that 349 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.440 you get a lot of skepticism or people who we 350 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.720 have a lot of questions of like, but really, because 351 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.680 it seems like it can't be that simple, even though 352 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.319 we can probably separate anthropologically, that yes, we did evolve 353 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:14.720 to have these things give us some sort of chemical 354 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.200 reward because they kept us alive. Right, And according to 355 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.039 a twenty twenty two article from Harvard titled Power of 356 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.039 Social interactions and the desire for connectedness, desire for connectedness, 357 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:29.559 for connect connect and the desire for connectedness to empower 358 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:33.839 health and wellness. Yes, humans quote are wired to connect 359 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:36.759 and this connection affects our health. It says there is 360 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.279 significant evidence that social support and feeling connected can help 361 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:45.319 people maintain a healthy body composition, control blood sugars, improve 362 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:52.559 cancer survival, decrease cardiovascular mortality, decrease depressive symptoms, mitigate PTSD, 363 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.000 and improve overall mental health. And it says that the 364 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.759 opposite of connection, which is social isolation, has a negative 365 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:04.000 effec on health and can increase depressive symptoms as well 366 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:09.119 as mortality. So prescribing social interactions and encouraging friendships has 367 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.920 the potential to have a healing effect on patients, and 368 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.200 social connection, they say, should be treated as a vital sign, 369 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:18.960 much like physical activity. Now. Part of the chemistry behind 370 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.559 this relates to oxytocin release, which is a bonding hormone 371 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.680 and it works in concert with something called gabba inhibitory 372 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:31.039 neurons to lower anxiety and up serotonin, which affects mood regulation, 373 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.799 and it increases dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter involved in 374 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:38.119 the reward system which creates feelings of pleasure and it 375 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:41.960 helps executive function. Also, may I use this socide if 376 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.039 I may, If I may? Two platform that taking smoke 377 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:47.839 breaks like ten minutes once or twice a day to 378 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.079 be outside and chat with people is probably very healthy, 379 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:54.599 except for the smoking part. And I propose that we 380 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:57.880 bring them back. But we call them apple gaps, or 381 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:01.240 we call them fruit interludes, and nobody smokes, but we 382 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:05.079 can fully normalize going downstairs or stepping outside to eat 383 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:07.640 a small piece of fruit and chat with people, and 384 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.240 then when you finish the fruit, you're back inside doing 385 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:13.319 whatever you're doing. I'm currently obsessed with a variety of 386 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:16.759 apple called rocket, which are very small, crunchy ones and 387 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:20.039 they take like five to seven minutes to eat leisurely. 388 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.359 And or more on how apple varieties are even made, 389 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.039 which is fascinating. Trust me, we have a whole pomology 390 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.960 episode if you don't believe me. But yes, apple gaps, 391 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:35.559 fruit interludes, tiny apples, hang outside, chat with a stranger 392 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:38.240 or a co worker. Tell your boss to get on 393 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:42.079 my level. A few people asked about skepticism. Matt Herschel asked, 394 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:45.200 is this hippie dippy or for real. Megan Morgan wanted 395 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.279 to know, is social prescription a valid suggestion or is 396 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:53.240 it a fad recommendation? How do scientists address that? 397 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:57.519 Yeah, it's a great question, because again, even the name 398 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:02.119 like social prescribing sounds little hippie tippy, sounds a little trendy, 399 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.680 and sounds like hell for introverts especially. I think again, 400 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:08.519 it comes down to looking at the strength of the 401 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:13.519