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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Disaster Strikes. I'm Kasey McIntosh.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Julie Henningson. Before we say anything else, we

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<v Speaker 2>want to note something we almost never get to say

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<v Speaker 2>on this segment.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody died.

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody died.

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<v Speaker 1>That's not how Disaster Strikes usually goes. Most of the time.

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<v Speaker 1>We're here to tell a cascade of decisions, each one's

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<v Speaker 1>small and seemingly reasonable that ended in tragedy. But today's

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<v Speaker 1>story is different. The disaster wasn't a storm, it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>a fall, it wasn't a crevass. It was a betrayal,

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<v Speaker 1>and it happened at the most famous mountain in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>To our listener, Shauna Borsheim, who recommended this topic, thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for listening, Shauna.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening, Shauna. This is a good one. And

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<v Speaker 2>while the victims in this story may have walked away,

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<v Speaker 2>most of them didn't even know they were victims until

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<v Speaker 2>they got home and checked their insurance statements.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a Disaster Strikes episode with no body count

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<v Speaker 1>but don't let that fool you. What happened in the

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<v Speaker 1>Shadow of Everest is one of the most elaborate, cold

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<v Speaker 1>blooded outdoor betrayals ever documented, and It ran for years,

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<v Speaker 1>and it worked precisely because it exploited the one thing

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<v Speaker 1>every person on the mountain is forced to do. It's

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<v Speaker 1>trust the person standing next to them. Mount Everest Saga

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<v Speaker 1>Matha and Nepali Chomo Lungma in tibetan At twenty nine thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>thirty two feet above sea level, it is the highest

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<v Speaker 1>point on Earth. It sits at the border between Nepal

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<v Speaker 1>and Tibet, in a region of the Himalayas called the

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<v Speaker 1>Kumbu Valley, and it draws people from every quarner of.

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<v Speaker 2>The world every year, thousands of them. Nepal issued climbing

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<v Speaker 2>permits to nearly four hundred people for the spring twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five season alone, making it one of the busiest

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<v Speaker 2>years on record. But the Everest economy is much bigger

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<v Speaker 2>than the summit. The trek to base camp, what climbers

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<v Speaker 2>call EBC, is its own industry.

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<v Speaker 1>The route begins in a village called Lukla, perched at

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<v Speaker 1>nine four hundred feet on the edge of a cliff,

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<v Speaker 1>served by one of the most terrifying runways on Earth,

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<v Speaker 1>a strip of asphalt that ends in a sheer drop.

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<v Speaker 1>You land, you adjust to the altitude for a day

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<v Speaker 1>and then you walk.

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<v Speaker 2>In casey, I can attest to that I've landed in

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<v Speaker 2>Lukla and taken off in Lucla, and it is terrifying.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like no other runway that you've ever seen or

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<v Speaker 2>been on, even with a lot of flying experience.

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<v Speaker 1>Really, what did you do there? Did you go to

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<v Speaker 1>the Everspace Camp?

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<v Speaker 2>Not all the way. We trekked from Lukla to Tangboce,

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<v Speaker 2>which is part of the way towards Everspace Camp, so

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<v Speaker 2>kind of an out and back, just exploring the area.

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<v Speaker 1>That's cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Most people will take a couple weeks to adjust to

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<v Speaker 2>the altitude and then begin the trek through rhododendron forests

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<v Speaker 2>and ancient monasteries, across suspension bridges hundreds of feet above

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<v Speaker 2>rivers that you can't even see the bottom. At some points.

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<v Speaker 2>The trail passes through villages like namche Bazaar, the last

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<v Speaker 2>real town on the route at eleven thy three hundred

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<v Speaker 2>feet through Tangboce, which is where we turned back. It's

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<v Speaker 2>home to one of the most famous Buddhist monasteries in

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<v Speaker 2>the Himalayas. Up and up further into thinner and thinner.

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<v Speaker 1>Air, By the time you reach base camp at seventeen thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>five hundred and ninety eight feet, you've already accomplished something

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<v Speaker 1>most humans never will. The air there contains roughly half

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<v Speaker 1>the oxygen. It doesn't sea level. Your heart rate is

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<v Speaker 1>elevated just sitting still. Your body is working to stay

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<v Speaker 1>alive in a way it simply isn't designed to do.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's just at base camp. For the people actually

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<v Speaker 2>attempting the summit, you're looking at usually two months more

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<v Speaker 2>on the mountain. Multiple rotations between camps, climbing high and

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<v Speaker 2>sleeping low a technique to prevent altitude illness. It forces

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<v Speaker 2>your body to produce more red blood cells as you acclimatize. Then,

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<v Speaker 2>when the weather window opens a summit push through the

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<v Speaker 2>death zone above twenty six thousand feet, where no human

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<v Speaker 2>body can acclimatize, and every hour shortens your life.

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<v Speaker 1>These are the two populations on Everest, the trekkers going

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<v Speaker 1>to base camp and back and the climbers attempting the summit.

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<v Speaker 1>This story touches both, but it hit the trekker's hardest.

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<v Speaker 1>Before we get into what happened, need to understand what

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<v Speaker 1>people are paying to be there. Because the financial stakes

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<v Speaker 1>are part of what made the fraud so lucrative.

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<v Speaker 2>Start with the summit permit. The government of Nepal charges

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<v Speaker 2>every foreign national a fee just for the right to

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<v Speaker 2>attempt the climb for the spring season April and May,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the primary window. That fee sat at eleven

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars per person for years, and in late twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four Nepal raised it to fifteen thousand dollars. This

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<v Speaker 2>was the first increase in nearly a decade.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's before you've hired a single guide, or bought

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<v Speaker 1>a single piece of gear, or booked a flight to Katmandu.

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<v Speaker 1>Their permit is literally just permission.

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<v Speaker 2>A full guided Everest expedition, the kind where you have

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<v Speaker 2>experienced to best support. Supplemental oxygen, high altitude camps, stocked

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<v Speaker 2>with food and equipment, satellite communication, and emergency contingency built

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<v Speaker 2>in runs between forty five thousand and one hundred thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>Some premium Western guided expeditions exceed one hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars per climber. Budget operators with Nepali companies start

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<v Speaker 2>around thirty thousand to forty five thousand dollars, but the

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<v Speaker 2>trade offs in support are significant.

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<v Speaker 1>For context, twenty twenty three was the deadliest season in

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<v Speaker 1>Everest recorded history, with eighteen confirmed deaths. Multiple expedition leaders

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<v Speaker 1>and the head of the Nepal National Mountain Guide Association

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<v Speaker 1>publicly attributed the toll in part to inexperienced climbers on

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<v Speaker 1>low cost operations, people who bought a permit online and

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<v Speaker 1>showed up without adequate preparation war support. So budget climbing

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<v Speaker 1>on Everest is not the same as budget travel anywhere else.

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<v Speaker 1>The stakes are much higher.

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<v Speaker 2>Gear alone, things like high altitude down suits, insulated boots,

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<v Speaker 2>supplemental oxygen systems, ice as, crampons, harness helmets. The basics

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<v Speaker 2>GPS satellite communicators can run between eight thousand and fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars for someone who's building from scratch, and then

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<v Speaker 2>there's the tips. A summit SHIRPA bonus of fifteen hundred

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<v Speaker 2>to five thousand dollars is standard, it's not optional.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you have to add flights, training, expeditions on

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<v Speaker 1>lower peaks. Nepal now requires climbers to have summitted at

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<v Speaker 1>least one seven thousand meter mountain before they're eligible for

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<v Speaker 1>an Everest permit. And then there's hotel costs in Katmandu,

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<v Speaker 1>contingency funds, and travel insurance. A realistic all in figure

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<v Speaker 1>for a guided EVER Summit attempt is around sixty to

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<v Speaker 1>eighty thousand dollars for most people, but some spend considerably more.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm guessing that most of these figures it's on the

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<v Speaker 1>higher end as opposed to the lower end.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm also guessing that this is a probably pretty

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<v Speaker 2>good example of you get what you pay for. You might,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, not want to cut corners when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>to something like this, if you can afford it, if

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<v Speaker 2>you can get away with it.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing to consider is not just the cost

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<v Speaker 1>of being there, but it's the cost of being away.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're not presumably working or making any money for

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<v Speaker 1>those two months.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the opportunity costs could be even more than these

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<v Speaker 2>numbers we're talking about, right, So, doing the EBC the

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<v Speaker 2>Ever's base Camp trek without attempting the summit is obviously cheaper,

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<v Speaker 2>but still not cheap. A guided two week trek from

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<v Speaker 2>Lukla to base Camp runs fifteen hundred to four thousand dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>again depending on the operator and what's included, and every

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<v Speaker 2>single person on that trail, trekker or climber is legally

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<v Speaker 2>required to carry insurance covering helicopter evacuation. Nepal now mandates it.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't get a permit without proof of coverage.

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<v Speaker 1>A single helicopter evacuation from the Kumba region can cost

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere from five thousand to forty thousand dollars, sometimes more,

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<v Speaker 1>depending upon altitude and conditions. Multiply that by thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>insured visitors a year, and you have a very large

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<v Speaker 1>pool of money moving through a remote and very herd

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<v Speaker 1>a audit system. And somebody noticed they took advantage of this.

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<v Speaker 2>Somebody was paying attention in getting creative in a devious way.

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<v Speaker 1>Right to understand the betrayal in the story, you have

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<v Speaker 1>to understand who the Sherpas are, and I mean really understand,

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<v Speaker 1>not just the word, not just the image of someone

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<v Speaker 1>carrying a heavy pack of a snowy slope.

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<v Speaker 2>The Sherpa are actually an ethnic group. The word itself

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<v Speaker 2>means Eastern people in Tibetan. They've lived in the Solukumbu

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<v Speaker 2>region of Nepal, in the shadow of Everest for hundreds

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<v Speaker 2>of years. Their ancestors migrated from Tibet Their culture is

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<v Speaker 2>deeply Buddhist, tied to the land, organized around seasonal farming, barley, potatoes,

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<v Speaker 2>yak hurting, and the rhythms of high altitude life.

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<v Speaker 1>And interestingly, their bodies are genuinely different from those of

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<v Speaker 1>people who grew up at lower elevations. Genomic studies have

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<v Speaker 1>identified specific gene variants, particularly one called ePass one, that

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<v Speaker 1>regulate how sharp of blood process is oxygen. They produced

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<v Speaker 1>nitric oxide at higher rates, which improves circulation. Their hemoglobin

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<v Speaker 1>binds oxygen more efficiently. They've lived above ten thousand feet

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<v Speaker 1>for so many generations that the adaptation is written into

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<v Speaker 1>their DNA.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is why when foreign mountaineers started arriving to attempt

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<v Speaker 2>Everest in the nineteen twenties, the Sherpa became indispensable, not

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<v Speaker 2>because anyone assigned them to that role, but because they

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<v Speaker 2>were literally the only people on Earth who could physically

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<v Speaker 2>do what high altitude guiding requires. Tenzing Norgay, one of

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<v Speaker 2>the first two people to summit Everest, stood on the

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<v Speaker 2>summit alongside Edmund Hillary in Night Tel teen fifty three,

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<v Speaker 2>and he became one of the most famous humans alive.

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<v Speaker 2>But he was also representative of something much larger than

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<v Speaker 2>one summit.

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<v Speaker 1>The SHRBA became the backbone of the entire Himalayan mountaineering industry.

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<v Speaker 1>They fixed the ropes that every climber on Everest depends on.

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<v Speaker 1>They stock the high camps, carrying oxygen tanks and food

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<v Speaker 1>and fuel through the Kumba Ice Fall, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most dangerous stretches of terrain on Earth, multiple times per expedition.

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<v Speaker 1>They make decisions and conditions where most clients literally cannot

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<v Speaker 1>think straight.

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<v Speaker 2>And that last point is worth pausing on. Research published

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<v Speaker 2>in multiple peer reviewed journals has established that cognitive function

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<v Speaker 2>begins to decline at altitudes as low as eighty two

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<v Speaker 2>hundred feet. Memory, attention, processing, speed, judgment can all be

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<v Speaker 2>measurebly effected. Above three thousand meters about nine thy eight

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<v Speaker 2>hundred feet, the impairments are consistent and pretty well docked.

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<v Speaker 2>Documented Above seventeen thousand feet, where most of this story

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<v Speaker 2>takes place, you're operating with a brain that is meaningfully

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<v Speaker 2>slower and less reliable than it is at sea level.

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<v Speaker 1>Your guide knows this. They've watched it happen hundreds of

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<v Speaker 1>times to many many clients. They can see it in

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<v Speaker 1>your face, they can hear it in your voice and

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<v Speaker 1>they can track it in the way that you're walking,

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<v Speaker 1>and you might feel fine or you might feel bad,

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<v Speaker 1>but you don't know what normal feels like anymore. You

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<v Speaker 1>have no baseline up there. You only have that person

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<v Speaker 1>next to you telling you what's real.

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<v Speaker 2>And that trust is not metaphorical, it's physiological. You hand

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<v Speaker 2>it over whether you mean to or not.

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<v Speaker 1>By the nineteen nineties, commercial guiding had transformed Everest into

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<v Speaker 1>what National Geographic described as a mountain business. Climber's paying

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<v Speaker 1>tens of thousands of dollars for guided access to the summit,

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<v Speaker 1>with Sherpa teams providing the labor that made it possible.

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<v Speaker 1>Hundreds of Sherpa families built their livelihoods on it. Schools

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<v Speaker 1>were built, medical clinics opened villages. Depending on the income

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<v Speaker 1>that flowed through the trekking and climbing industry, Nepal's tourism

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<v Speaker 1>sector generates over seven hundred and fifty million dollars annually,

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<v Speaker 1>and the mountains are the engine.

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<v Speaker 2>The Kumbu ice fall alone, that grinding shifting maze of

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<v Speaker 2>ice blocks and hidden crevasses between base camp and Camp

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<v Speaker 2>one has claimed the lives of dozens of Sherpa guides.

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<v Speaker 2>Over the decades, sixteen were killed in a single day.

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<v Speaker 2>On April eighteenth, twenty fourteen, a siaq, one of those

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<v Speaker 2>massive house sized blocks of glacial ice that form where

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<v Speaker 2>deep cracks intersect as glacial flows down a steep slope,

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<v Speaker 2>collapsed without warning above the ice fall that morning. National

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<v Speaker 2>Geographic later measured it. The surface area of that single

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<v Speaker 2>block of ice was roughly the size of an NBA

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<v Speaker 2>basketball court, and it weighed and estimated thirty one point

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<v Speaker 2>five million pounds when it fell. The shrip is below

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<v Speaker 2>had no chance. They were on their third carry of

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<v Speaker 2>the season, hauling gear for paying clients who were still

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<v Speaker 2>asleep at base camp. The mountain doesn't distinguish between the

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<v Speaker 2>person paying and the person guiding.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is the world into which this fraud was introduced,

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<v Speaker 1>a world of urn trust, generational sacrifice, and a power

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00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.720
<v Speaker 1>imbalance that runs in every direction at once. So who

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<v Speaker 1>exactly is the person walking next to you and where

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<v Speaker 1>do they come from? Because when you hand the trust

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<v Speaker 1>over at fifteen thousand feet, it helps to know what

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<v Speaker 1>you're actually handing it to.

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<v Speaker 2>Most trekking guides in the Kumbu come from the villages

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<v Speaker 2>along the route itself, namche Bazaar, tang Boce fuck Ding.

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<v Speaker 2>These are families who have lived at altitude for generations,

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<v Speaker 2>people whose grandparents carried loads for early Himalayan expeditions, whose

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00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:52.000
<v Speaker 2>parents grew up watching foreign climbers pass through each spring.

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<v Speaker 2>Guiding is not a job they fell into. For many,

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<v Speaker 2>it's inherited work.

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<v Speaker 1>To become a licensed trekking guide in apall Apart must

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<v Speaker 1>complete a government approved training course typical four to six weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>It runs through Nepal Academy of Tourism and Hotel Management

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<v Speaker 1>known as NATHAN or the Nepal Mountain Academy. The curriculum

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<v Speaker 1>covers mountain safety and wilderness, first aid, altitude sickness recognition

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00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:24.679
<v Speaker 1>and response, navigation, local flora and fauna, cultural history, and English,

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<v Speaker 1>all of it before they've ever led a client up

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<v Speaker 1>a trail.

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<v Speaker 2>Before they even qualify for that training, most guides have

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00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:35.639
<v Speaker 2>spent at least two years working as a porter or

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<v Speaker 2>an assistant guide, carrying loads, reading terrain, learning the signs

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00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:43.799
<v Speaker 2>of weather changes and altitude problems from people have been

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<v Speaker 2>doing it for decades, and by the time a guide

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00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.840
<v Speaker 2>passes the licensing exam and receives their Nepal Tourism Board

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00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:54.399
<v Speaker 2>ID card. They typically have more hours on these specific

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<v Speaker 2>trails than most Western mountaineers accumulate in a lifetime.

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<v Speaker 1>They speak English when they speak French, German, Japanese or

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<v Speaker 1>Spanish as well. Because the clients come from all over

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00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:08.879
<v Speaker 1>the world, they're trained to recognize the difference between a

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<v Speaker 1>tourist who needs a rest a and a tourist who

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00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:15.919
<v Speaker 1>needs a hospital. That distinction made correctly is what keeps

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<v Speaker 1>people alive.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's subtle too. It's not like you can just

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<v Speaker 2>open a manual and you know, follow an algorithm to

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<v Speaker 2>make a decision like that. It takes some experience, some

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00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:31.159
<v Speaker 2>background and training. A tricking guide earns roughly twenty five

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00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.279
<v Speaker 2>to forty dollars per day in base pay, including their

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00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:40.360
<v Speaker 2>own food, accommodation, and mandatory insurance on the trail. Tips

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<v Speaker 2>are expected and they're culturally significant, but the base wage

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<v Speaker 2>alone makes guiding one of the better paying jobs available

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<v Speaker 2>and rule in Nepal. For a family in the Kumbu,

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<v Speaker 2>a son or daughter with a guiding license is a

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<v Speaker 2>source of real pride and real economic stability.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is the person that you're trusting somebody who

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<v Speaker 1>grew grew up on these trails, someone with formal training,

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00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:07.080
<v Speaker 1>a government license, years of field experience, and a family

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00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:10.080
<v Speaker 1>reputation built on the word of foreign clients who came

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00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.240
<v Speaker 1>home safely. The guides at the center of this fraud

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00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:16.480
<v Speaker 1>were a betrayal not just to their clients, but of

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<v Speaker 1>every legitimate guide whose livelihood depends on that trust remaining intact.

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<v Speaker 1>The story technically begins in twenty eighteen. That's when the

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<v Speaker 1>Katmandu Post, Nepaul's oldest English language newspaper, first started digging

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<v Speaker 1>into something that trekkers had been whispering about for years.

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<v Speaker 1>AFP journalist Annabelle Symington followed the thread through trip advisor

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<v Speaker 1>reviews and first hand accounts. What she found sounded at

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00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:44.759
<v Speaker 1>first almost impossible.

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00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:50.399
<v Speaker 2>Guides were pressuring trekkers to call in helicopter evacuations for

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00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:52.559
<v Speaker 2>symptoms that didn't require it.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's how it worked. A treker develops a headache, some nausea,

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00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:02.039
<v Speaker 1>mild dizziness, all of which adultsitude is entirely normal. Your

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00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.160
<v Speaker 1>body is adjusting to thinner air, and acute mountain sickness

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<v Speaker 1>or AMS is almost universal among people ascending quickly. Mild

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00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:13.440
<v Speaker 1>AMS almost always resolves on its own with rust fluids

294
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.039
<v Speaker 1>and if needed, a descent a few hundred feet.

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00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:20.279
<v Speaker 2>In wilderness medicine training, we say don't go up until

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00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.119
<v Speaker 2>the signs and symptoms go down. When we're talking about

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00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:27.599
<v Speaker 2>mild AMS, which is very different from severe altitude illness

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<v Speaker 2>like pulmonary edema or cerebral edema, they all have different

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00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:35.160
<v Speaker 2>sets of symptoms as well, So descent really isn't mandatory

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<v Speaker 2>with AMS. Just kind of staying and hanging out where

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00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:40.680
<v Speaker 2>you are can resolve a lot of the symptoms if

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00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.079
<v Speaker 2>you give it a day or two. But instead of

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00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:46.200
<v Speaker 2>saying that, instead of handing the client and aspirin or

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00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:49.000
<v Speaker 2>telling them to drink water and get some sleep, the

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00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:53.640
<v Speaker 2>guide walks over looking grave. Your oxygen readings are dangerously low.

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00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:56.519
<v Speaker 2>The guide says, you need to get off this mountain.

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<v Speaker 2>If we don't call a helicopter in the next few hours,

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00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:01.759
<v Speaker 2>not make it yet.

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00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:04.160
<v Speaker 1>If you have a trusted guide who has lots of

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00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:06.480
<v Speaker 1>experience and they're saying that to you, what do you

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00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:09.039
<v Speaker 1>think most people are going to do? The trekker doesn't

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00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:12.400
<v Speaker 1>know what oxygen readings are normally up there. They don't

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00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:16.279
<v Speaker 1>know what dangerous looks like versus uncomfortable, and they're scared

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00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:19.559
<v Speaker 1>and exhausted in thousands of miles from home. Their guide,

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00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.039
<v Speaker 1>the person who has kept them safe for two weeks,

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00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:26.839
<v Speaker 1>the person whose entire professional reputation is built on knowing

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00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:29.839
<v Speaker 1>these mountains, is telling them that they're in danger. So

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00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:30.519
<v Speaker 1>they say yes.

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00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.279
<v Speaker 2>And remember their brain isn't working the way it normally

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00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.680
<v Speaker 2>would at sea level or at lower altitudes, So there's

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00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.200
<v Speaker 2>probably an element of confusion and muddled thinking that plays

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00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:43.240
<v Speaker 2>into this as well. So next thing they know, the

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00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:47.119
<v Speaker 2>helicopter comes and the trucker gets to Catman Do, and

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<v Speaker 2>the hospital runs scans and tests and writes a report,

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<v Speaker 2>and the insurance company gets a bill.

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<v Speaker 1>And here's where it becomes fraud because, according to Nepal's

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<v Speaker 1>Central Investigation Bureau the CIB, a wing of the National

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00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Police that handles organized crimes, the people that were running

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00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:13.680
<v Speaker 1>this were not just calling unnecessary helicopters. They built this

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00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.759
<v Speaker 1>entire parallel billing structure on top of the real one.

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<v Speaker 2>Four people sharing a single helicopter flight would be billed

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<v Speaker 2>as four separate private evacuations. In one documented case in

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00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:31.640
<v Speaker 2>the cib's report, four tourists on one flight generated combined

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00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:37.039
<v Speaker 2>insurance claims of over forty three thousand dollars. Hospital staff

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00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:42.599
<v Speaker 2>wrote false medical reports. At least nine physicians told investigators

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00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:46.799
<v Speaker 2>their signatures appeared on documents that they never signed. One

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00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:51.920
<v Speaker 2>hospital's surveillance footage shows a foreign tourist documented as critically

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00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.480
<v Speaker 2>ill in the paperwork, drinking beer at a cafe owned

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00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:56.519
<v Speaker 2>by one of the doctors.

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00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.359
<v Speaker 1>The money flowed through a commission structure connecting the guides

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00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.079
<v Speaker 1>on the ground to the helicopter companies in the air,

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00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.759
<v Speaker 1>to the private hospitals in Katmandu. A physician at Shreedy

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00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:13.160
<v Speaker 1>International Hospital confirmed the arrangement during police interrogation. His hospital

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00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:17.200
<v Speaker 1>had paid millions of Nepalese rupees and commissions to Nepal

345
00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:22.440
<v Speaker 1>charter Service and to trekking operations to refer clients. Everyone

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00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:24.960
<v Speaker 1>had a cut and everyone had an incentive.

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00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.920
<v Speaker 2>So this was not just a few rogue guides. This

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00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:32.240
<v Speaker 2>was a coordinated industry within an industry.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, this is the part that made global headlines recently

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00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:38.720
<v Speaker 1>and where we need to be precise because there's a

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00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:42.839
<v Speaker 1>real distinction between what the investigation alleged and what it

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00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:43.920
<v Speaker 1>formally proved.

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<v Speaker 2>The allegation detailed in the cib's charge sheet and first

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<v Speaker 2>reported by the Katmandu Post, is that in some cases,

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00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.559
<v Speaker 2>guides didn't wait for clients to get naturally sick. They

356
00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:59.200
<v Speaker 2>helped it, along with baking.

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00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:03.559
<v Speaker 1>Soda sodium bicarbonate, which they mixed into foods or drinks

358
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:10.119
<v Speaker 1>in large enough quantities to cause severe gastrointestinal distress. Vomiting diarrhea,

359
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:15.039
<v Speaker 1>cramping at fifteen thousand feet with no cell service and

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00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.920
<v Speaker 1>an alarmed guide standing over you. Those symptoms are nearly

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00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.680
<v Speaker 1>indistinguishable from altitude sickness. You have no way to know

362
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.720
<v Speaker 1>the difference. Your brain, remember, is not running at full capacity.

363
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:30.200
<v Speaker 1>You feel terrible, and you have no reference point for

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00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:31.000
<v Speaker 1>what that means.

365
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.519
<v Speaker 2>The IB Times UK reported that in at least one

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<v Speaker 2>documented case, baking powder was added to a trekker's meal,

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00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:44.079
<v Speaker 2>which also causes severe gastro intestinal distress. So sometimes baking

368
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.960
<v Speaker 2>powder was used in both cases, leaving the victim with

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00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.920
<v Speaker 2>no option but to agree to an emergency evacuation. Other

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00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:54.920
<v Speaker 2>methods were described in the charred sheet. Guides would push

371
00:21:55.000 --> 00:22:00.119
<v Speaker 2>clients to ascend too fast, intentionally triggering genuine acute mountain sickness. Yes,

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00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:05.319
<v Speaker 2>they would push unnecessary medications that caused dehydration. They would

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<v Speaker 2>describe a mild headache as a potentially fatal warning.

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00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:11.240
<v Speaker 1>And then there is a detail that made some of

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00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:16.039
<v Speaker 1>the more sensational headlines. The Independent, the British outlet, reported

376
00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:20.039
<v Speaker 1>that among the methods allegedly used were uncooked chicken and

377
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:24.519
<v Speaker 1>rat droppings mixed into food. Both would cause severe gastro

378
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:29.279
<v Speaker 1>intestinal illness, with symptoms that at altitude look almost identical

379
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.119
<v Speaker 1>to acute mountain sickness.

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00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.599
<v Speaker 2>So we do have to be clear here about what

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00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:36.440
<v Speaker 2>we know and what we don't know. The rat droppings

382
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:41.880
<v Speaker 2>claim originates from the Independence reporting, which cited the CIB investigation,

383
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:46.400
<v Speaker 2>but Climbing Magazine obtained the actual seven hundred and forty

384
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:50.400
<v Speaker 2>eight page charred sheet and reviewed it in full. Their conclusion,

385
00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:55.880
<v Speaker 2>the document contains extensive, well evidenced proof of insurance fraud.

386
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:01.079
<v Speaker 2>It contains no forensic evidence of food contamination. The CIB

387
00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:04.279
<v Speaker 2>told Climbing directly, and later put it in a formal

388
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:08.519
<v Speaker 2>press release that the official investigation has not found evidence

389
00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:10.200
<v Speaker 2>of poisoning of any kind.

390
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:13.920
<v Speaker 1>So where does that leave us? The baking soda allegation

391
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:16.440
<v Speaker 1>appears in the charge sheet or at least in one

392
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:20.480
<v Speaker 1>sided case. The rat droppings and uncooked chicken claim appears

393
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:24.200
<v Speaker 1>in the media reporting attributed to the investigation, but not

394
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:27.920
<v Speaker 1>in the charge sheet itself. As confirmed findings. The CIB

395
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:31.519
<v Speaker 1>has not substantiated them. They might be accurate, but they

396
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:35.680
<v Speaker 1>might be exaggerated. Eight years of investigation and seven hundred

397
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.039
<v Speaker 1>and forty eight pages of evidence later, what is proven

398
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>beyond dispute is the paperwork fraud, and that alone was

399
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:43.960
<v Speaker 1>worth twenty million dollars.

400
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.680
<v Speaker 2>And in some cases the guides didn't even bother manufacturing illness.

401
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:50.759
<v Speaker 2>They've just found something simpler.

402
00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:52.079
<v Speaker 1>They just asked.

403
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:57.039
<v Speaker 2>Everspace Camp is a fourteen day round trip on foot,

404
00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:01.200
<v Speaker 2>and according to the investigation, some guides we're telling clients,

405
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:03.440
<v Speaker 2>why hike all the way out when you could just

406
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.079
<v Speaker 2>fly fake in illness, call the helicopter. You'd be in

407
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Katmandu drinking a beer by tonight, and the guides had

408
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:11.160
<v Speaker 2>handle the paperwork.

409
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.319
<v Speaker 1>I just can't imagine being in the position of wanting

410
00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:16.880
<v Speaker 1>to do this truck and then deciding, oh, forget about it,

411
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:19.839
<v Speaker 1>I'll just take the helicopter back right unless conditions were

412
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:21.480
<v Speaker 1>absolutely terrible.

413
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Which in which case you probably didn't do your homework

414
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:27.000
<v Speaker 2>to show up in the first place. And that's a

415
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.799
<v Speaker 2>lot of effort to put into, you know, getting to

416
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.720
<v Speaker 2>do something like this without really knowing what you're getting

417
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:33.440
<v Speaker 2>yourself into.

418
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:37.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure that does happen, though a fair amount absolutely.

419
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:41.680
<v Speaker 1>The CIB recovered WhatsApp exchanges showing that some foreign trekkers

420
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.799
<v Speaker 1>were aware of this and complicit in the scheme. Here's

421
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.640
<v Speaker 1>what nearly a decade of fraud looks like in numbers.

422
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.160
<v Speaker 1>Between twenty twenty two and twenty twenty five alone, the

423
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:56.440
<v Speaker 1>CIB identified four thousand, seven hundred and eighty two international

424
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:00.839
<v Speaker 1>tourists treated at hospitals connected to the scheme, nearly five

425
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:06.000
<v Speaker 1>thousand people more than three hundred confirmed fraudulent rescues total

426
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:08.319
<v Speaker 1>take just under twenty million dollars.

427
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:12.279
<v Speaker 2>Three helicopter companies were thought to be at the center

428
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.160
<v Speaker 2>of it. Mountain Rescue Service one thy two hundred and

429
00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.440
<v Speaker 2>forty eight total flights, one hundred and seventy one of

430
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:23.920
<v Speaker 2>them fraudulent, ten point three million dollars in false claims,

431
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:28.839
<v Speaker 2>Nepal Charter Service four hundred and seventy one flights, seventy

432
00:25:28.839 --> 00:25:32.640
<v Speaker 2>five fake, and eight point two million dollars in false

433
00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:37.920
<v Speaker 2>claims and finally, Everest Experience and Assistance six hundred and

434
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:43.240
<v Speaker 2>one flights, seventy one suspicious rescues, and over eleven million

435
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:46.640
<v Speaker 2>dollars in claims. And remember those numbers only cover what

436
00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:51.160
<v Speaker 2>investigators could confirm. The actual total is almost certainly.

437
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Higher, especially because this has been going on for a

438
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:56.079
<v Speaker 1>very long time, and this is only a couple years

439
00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:59.440
<v Speaker 1>of data that they had right between twenty twenty two

440
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:02.640
<v Speaker 1>and twenty two, so presumably they were doing it before that.

441
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, who knows how long it's been going on.

442
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:09.079
<v Speaker 1>Right, The hospitals were just as deep in it. Era

443
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:14.200
<v Speaker 1>International Hospital received deposits exceeding fifteen point eight million dollars

444
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:18.720
<v Speaker 1>linked to these activities that critically ill tourist that Julie

445
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.960
<v Speaker 1>was mentioning before there was some video surveillance showing her

446
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:25.440
<v Speaker 1>drinking beer at a cafe when the paperwork indicated that

447
00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:27.759
<v Speaker 1>she was critically ill. And in the ICU.

448
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:31.559
<v Speaker 2>The man that investigators named as the architect of all

449
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:37.480
<v Speaker 2>of this, Rahendra Bajader Singh, former managing director of Mountain Helicopters,

450
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.519
<v Speaker 2>former vice president of the Airlines Operators Association of Nepal.

451
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.880
<v Speaker 2>He's the kind of guy who doesn't leave fingerprints pretty thorough.

452
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:49.799
<v Speaker 1>Because here's the thing about Singh. The original CIP investigation

453
00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:52.920
<v Speaker 1>filed one thy two hundred and forty three pages, and

454
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.599
<v Speaker 1>his name was in it. By the time the Government

455
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:58.720
<v Speaker 1>Attorney's office filed the formal case in March of twenty

456
00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:02.359
<v Speaker 1>twenty six, the document had been trimmed to seven hundred

457
00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.960
<v Speaker 1>and forty eight pages, in Singh's name was gone exempted.

458
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:11.720
<v Speaker 1>CIB officials said publicly that evidence had been suppressed. The

459
00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.559
<v Speaker 1>fraud went higher than any guide on any trail. Here's

460
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.640
<v Speaker 1>the question that should make you furious. The Katmandu Post

461
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:21.720
<v Speaker 1>first broke this story in twenty eighteen, eight years ago.

462
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:27.640
<v Speaker 1>A government investigation followed, reforms were announced, insurance companies threatened

463
00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:31.200
<v Speaker 1>to pull coverage entirely, and the fraud kept running for

464
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:32.400
<v Speaker 1>four more years.

465
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:36.920
<v Speaker 2>But why because the people running the investigation and the

466
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:40.519
<v Speaker 2>people running this scheme had the same group of friends.

467
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Nepal's tourism industry is enormous. It feeds families, it builds villages,

468
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:50.160
<v Speaker 2>it funds politicians. The investigations were stalled, charges were blocked.

469
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:54.039
<v Speaker 2>The SCHRPA guiding community, the legitimate guides who had built

470
00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:57.440
<v Speaker 2>their lives on a reputation for honesty, were so angry

471
00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:01.680
<v Speaker 2>at the inaction that their leader's publicly threatened hunger strikes.

472
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:02.880
<v Speaker 2>But it didn't matter.

473
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.440
<v Speaker 1>What finally changed was Nepal's government itself. In twenty twenty four,

474
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.119
<v Speaker 1>a youth led protest movement, what the international press called

475
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:15.799
<v Speaker 1>the gen Z Revolution, forced out the existing administration. The

476
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:20.000
<v Speaker 1>new government came in with anti corruption as their defining issue.

477
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:23.279
<v Speaker 1>According to a local guide who spoke with Explorer's Web,

478
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:27.319
<v Speaker 1>the Everest fraud investigation was one of the first files reopened,

479
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.920
<v Speaker 1>not because the evidence was new, but because the people

480
00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:32.880
<v Speaker 1>blocking it were gone.

481
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:36.880
<v Speaker 2>The CIB finally made their first arrests in January twenty

482
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:40.960
<v Speaker 2>twenty six. By March, ten people were in custody, and

483
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.200
<v Speaker 2>by April thirty two individuals had been formally charged in

484
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Katmandu District Court. Trekking operators, helicopter executives, hospital directors, physicians

485
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:58.039
<v Speaker 2>twenty three remained at large, many investigators believed had already

486
00:28:58.119 --> 00:28:58.880
<v Speaker 2>left the country.

487
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:03.039
<v Speaker 1>The arrests landed late in March twenty twenty six, the

488
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.480
<v Speaker 1>very start of Nepal's spring climbing season. The timing hit

489
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:10.519
<v Speaker 1>the legitimate Everest industry like an avalanche.

490
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:16.119
<v Speaker 2>International headlines ran with Everest guides poisoning climbers, and in

491
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:19.160
<v Speaker 2>most of those stories, the distinction between trekkers on the

492
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:23.319
<v Speaker 2>base Camp route and actual Everest climbing clients was lost entirely.

493
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:28.119
<v Speaker 2>The fraud was concentrated in trekking companies, businesses that organize

494
00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:31.440
<v Speaker 2>the fourteen day hike to base Camp and back. The

495
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:34.759
<v Speaker 2>Sherpa guides who spend their lives leading technical climbers to

496
00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:38.480
<v Speaker 2>the summit at twenty nine thoy thirty two feet were

497
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:43.000
<v Speaker 2>a completely different industry, but the headlines didn't make that distinction.

498
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Tashi Lakpa Sherpa, CEO of fourteen Peaks Expeditions, told Outside

499
00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.519
<v Speaker 1>magazine the scandal won't impact our business this year because

500
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.839
<v Speaker 1>all of our clients already booked, but it will have

501
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:56.279
<v Speaker 1>a big impact next year.

502
00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Mingma David Sherpa told Outside Magazine that he he's confident

503
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:05.039
<v Speaker 2>that everyone who successfully summits Everest this spring would demonstrate

504
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:08.319
<v Speaker 2>to the world what the reality here actually is that

505
00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:11.680
<v Speaker 2>gliance they're having to ask their guides for proof that

506
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:12.880
<v Speaker 2>the guide isn't a criminal.

507
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:17.039
<v Speaker 1>And then there was the rescue infrastructure. Global Rescue one

508
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.759
<v Speaker 1>of the primary providers of longline rescue services on Everest,

509
00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:23.759
<v Speaker 1>where a critically ill climber is attached to a rope

510
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:27.960
<v Speaker 1>dangling beneath a helicopter and lifted off the mountain, announced

511
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.599
<v Speaker 1>it was suspending all services for the twenty twenty six

512
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:34.440
<v Speaker 1>climbing season. Their stated reason was that their best pilots

513
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:37.400
<v Speaker 1>weren't flying in a pall this year. The timing said

514
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:38.200
<v Speaker 1>everything else.

515
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:43.240
<v Speaker 2>The rescue capability that legitimate climbers depend on, that has

516
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:47.279
<v Speaker 2>saved multiple lives on Everest in recent seasons, was being

517
00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:50.799
<v Speaker 2>pulled back, not because of anything the climbers did, but

518
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:54.519
<v Speaker 2>because of this network of trekking, guides and hospital administrators

519
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:59.039
<v Speaker 2>that had spent years abusing the same infrastructure for profit.

520
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:01.880
<v Speaker 1>This is what's the second disaster in the story. The

521
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.960
<v Speaker 1>first happened to the trekkers, people who paid for something

522
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:10.519
<v Speaker 1>extraordinary and were instead manipulated, made sick, frightened, and robbed.

523
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:12.839
<v Speaker 1>And then the second is what's happening now to the

524
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:14.960
<v Speaker 1>guides and climbers who had nothing to do with it.

525
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:20.000
<v Speaker 2>And actually, then there's a third. Nepal's tourism sector generates,

526
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.680
<v Speaker 2>like we said, over seven hundred and fifty million dollars

527
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.039
<v Speaker 2>a year. Climbing and trekking is a massive part of that.

528
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Several international insurance underwriters have already begun tightening verification requirements

529
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:35.920
<v Speaker 2>for high altitude coverage in the Everes region, which will

530
00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:38.839
<v Speaker 2>make it harder and more expensive for everyone else who

531
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:43.079
<v Speaker 2>follows this fraud. If it costs Nepal, its reputation will

532
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:46.920
<v Speaker 2>hurt the very communities that the Sherpa guides built over generations.

533
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:50.880
<v Speaker 1>So where does this leave you if you're planning a

534
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:54.599
<v Speaker 1>Himalayan track, if you're even considering it after hearing all.

535
00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:57.759
<v Speaker 2>About this, well, I feel like it's important to say

536
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.839
<v Speaker 2>that the guides who did this were not the They

537
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.960
<v Speaker 2>were this criminal network embedded in the legitimate industry. For

538
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.480
<v Speaker 2>the most part, the industry is full of people who

539
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.960
<v Speaker 2>are furious at what was done to their name. Most

540
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:13.440
<v Speaker 2>guides on those trails are exactly what they look like,

541
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:18.759
<v Speaker 2>experience licensed proud. The story is about what happens when

542
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:22.400
<v Speaker 2>a small number of bad actors exploit a system that

543
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:26.039
<v Speaker 2>trust them, and that kind of thing happens everywhere in

544
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:28.359
<v Speaker 2>every industry, all the time.

545
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Right worldwide. But I think trust with your eyes open

546
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:35.720
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to trucking at high altitude. You just

547
00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:38.720
<v Speaker 1>need to know what the symptoms are of mountain sickness

548
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:41.799
<v Speaker 1>before you go. A headache at altitude is normal, and

549
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:45.640
<v Speaker 1>nausea is normal. Feeling slower and more tired than usual

550
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:49.000
<v Speaker 1>is normal. But what is not normal, what means get

551
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:53.799
<v Speaker 1>off the mountain now, is losing your coordination, severe confusion,

552
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:58.319
<v Speaker 1>a cough that produces frothy or pink speedum or breathlessness

553
00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:00.960
<v Speaker 1>so severe you can't rest. Those are the signs of

554
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:04.480
<v Speaker 1>high altitude cerebral edema or a pulmonary edema, and those

555
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:06.799
<v Speaker 1>will kill you. A headache won't.

556
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.559
<v Speaker 2>The term that we use in medicine for loss of

557
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:13.960
<v Speaker 2>coordination or maybe the inability to walk in a straight

558
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:17.559
<v Speaker 2>line deficit of your gross motor skills is a taxia,

559
00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:20.079
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes we remember if you look like you need

560
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:23.480
<v Speaker 2>a taxi on the mountain, you might have a taxia,

561
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:27.119
<v Speaker 2>which is the hallmark sign of high altitude cerebral edema.

562
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.880
<v Speaker 1>Or you might have the umboles, the stumbles, fumbles, mumbles,

563
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:32.960
<v Speaker 1>tumbles grown exactly.

564
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:36.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for a different reason than what we've talked about

565
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:39.880
<v Speaker 2>that before, Not so much hypothermia related, but more brain

566
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:45.519
<v Speaker 2>malfunction related. Pressure in the skull from fluid accumulation. That's

567
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:48.079
<v Speaker 2>life threatening. So that's not a don't go up till

568
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.279
<v Speaker 2>symptoms go down. That's a go down now.

569
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:54.119
<v Speaker 1>And before any helicopter leaves the ground, call your insurance

570
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:57.640
<v Speaker 1>company if you can. Most policies actually require it. That

571
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:00.640
<v Speaker 1>phone call is in a formality, it is a timestamp.

572
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:03.839
<v Speaker 1>It's a record that exists outside the control of anyone

573
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.039
<v Speaker 1>on that mountain, So you should do that. When I

574
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:08.760
<v Speaker 1>was reading through all of this information for this episode,

575
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:11.519
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking about my brother's friend who was going

576
00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:16.400
<v Speaker 1>to summitt Akonquagua in Argentina, and they rescued him or

577
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:19.519
<v Speaker 1>took him off the mountain because his oxygen saturation was

578
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:23.800
<v Speaker 1>quote unquote too low, even though he didn't feel any symptoms,

579
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:25.639
<v Speaker 1>which I thought was questionable.

580
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.559
<v Speaker 2>I agree. I think there's a lot of evidence now

581
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:32.119
<v Speaker 2>that those little pulse ox devices, the ones that slip

582
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:35.280
<v Speaker 2>on your fingertip, are so widely used that they're not

583
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:38.159
<v Speaker 2>as reliable as we thought they were. I mean, they're

584
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of a nice little gimmicky gizmo that feels gives

585
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.920
<v Speaker 2>you some data and some objective numbers, but you know,

586
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:48.559
<v Speaker 2>treat the patient, not the numbers. If you're not sick

587
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:51.480
<v Speaker 2>and you're not showing these critical signs of altitude illness,

588
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.679
<v Speaker 2>making evacuation decisions based on a number on a device

589
00:34:56.079 --> 00:35:00.840
<v Speaker 2>is careless. There were two Canadian truckers who eventually filed

590
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.000
<v Speaker 2>a complaint with the CIB when they found out that

591
00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:07.400
<v Speaker 2>they'd been scammed from a Facebook post. Weeks after they

592
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.920
<v Speaker 2>got home. Their insurance company had received a bill for

593
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:16.559
<v Speaker 2>dangerously low oxygen readings, unnecessary CT scans in ICYU time,

594
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:20.000
<v Speaker 2>none of which matched what they had remembered happening. They

595
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.639
<v Speaker 2>were fine, they just hadn't known to say so at

596
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:23.039
<v Speaker 2>the time.

597
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:28.039
<v Speaker 1>That's what this fraud counted on. Not stupidity or carelessness,

598
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.639
<v Speaker 1>just the reasonable, appropriate trust that every person on the

599
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:35.559
<v Speaker 1>mountain extended to the person standing next to them. It's

600
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:38.119
<v Speaker 1>the right thing to do up there, and someone decided

601
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:40.800
<v Speaker 1>to make money off of it. And whenever I hear

602
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:43.960
<v Speaker 1>things like this, it seems so extremely elaborate that it

603
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:45.679
<v Speaker 1>seems like they have a skill set that they could

604
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:48.719
<v Speaker 1>apply to something to make money in a more legal way.

605
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, These are some creative thinkers, some people that can

606
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:58.920
<v Speaker 2>really maximize loopholes or monetize things that other people might

607
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.760
<v Speaker 2>not notice or can consider that is a skill that

608
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:04.679
<v Speaker 2>could be used for good, not evil.

609
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:09.239
<v Speaker 1>Right, absolutely well, thanks for listening to this week's episode

610
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:10.360
<v Speaker 1>of Disaster Strikes.

611
00:36:11.239 --> 00:36:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Stay curious out there.
