Speaker 1: What is up Fellaska's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, the certified, fantabulous. Mister
Grant Hugh's Hardware Nots has gathered you all here.
Speaker 2: Today to talk about the offseason.
Speaker 1: There's enough not so interesting basketball happening for us to
start taking some macro stances or macro looks at what's
to come.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna do.
Speaker 1: NBA teams that we already know are gonna define the offseason,
not that we're oh, if this happens, depending on what
goes on in the playoffs. We're predicting right now that
they're gonna do some seismic stuff over the summer, or
we expect them to before we get started.
Speaker 2: Though, Grant, how heck are you doing?
Speaker 3: Doing very well? I'm glad to uh pivot from very like,
let's talk about the basketball part of the basketball which
we just recorded. I'm not sure when you'll be hearing
this to some offseason stuff because for a lot of
them league this season doesn't matter anymore. That's unfortunate. Listen
to our tanking discussion release last week, if earlier this week,
if you want our take on that. But yeah, got
to start talking off season, man, like, that's that's what
a lot of these teams are thinking about and have
been for a while, so we might as well do
it too.
Speaker 2: So how did you before we get started? For real?
Speaker 1: How did you approach? What are you looking for when
the playoffs haven't happened yet and you want to know, Oh,
this team is really going to shape what goes down
in the inn the off season.
Speaker 3: It's a combo of just you know, some of the
where there's smoke, there's fire stuff right where if there's
been some I'm just going to telegraph it. But if
there's been some unrequited trade chatter with a certain team,
that's probably going to come up in the offseason. Again,
that's a a good chance you're going to get included here.
Cap space picks, big time free agent decisions that might
affect other teams and might affect the market, all that
kind of stuff. Just teams that have flexibility. There's a
special category I have. I don't know if we'll get
to these teams necessarily, but that could undergo some fairly
significant changes, maybe if they disappoint in the playoffs or
have already disappointed before getting to the playoffs. For example,
So a lot of factors went in there. Anything to
add that went into your calculus for for these teams.
Just vibes.
Speaker 1: If the vibe is just off and you think that
we didn't even get to the pluck where you know
that's something this this is just weird.
Speaker 2: The vibes matter to me.
Speaker 3: I mean, you're not wrong.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll give you the first pick, as per usual.
Speaker 2: Where do you where do you want to take?
Speaker 3: Well, we have to just start with the Bucks because
Nis is going to be extension eligible. Not sure if
you're aware of that, because Jannis wants to stay in
Milwaukee forever and ever. Right now, dot dot dot, I've
already made that joke, but like, come on, that's where
we are. We're in We're in the ellipses territory of
the Bucks and Janni's relationship. So it's gonna be just
like the trade deadline I imagine, where although now I
wish I'd looked up his extension date when he talked Okay,
So this is a real problem because it's gonna later however,
if the Bucks and Yannis don't get to a point
this offseason where he's either gonna definitely sign it or
not and then we can act subsequent to that. Man,
that's gonna be rough if we just have to all
summer talk about this. But that's the next kind of
fork in the road potential moment, which is to say,
if he doesn't say I want to sign it, I'm
gonna sign it, then you have Then there's just another
element in the we gotta trade this guy equation. So
I don't really it's not like the Bucks suddenly well
if they lose, honest, they're gonna go out and get X,
Y and Z in free agency. It's just like that's
just the domino. That's the first domino I think are
the biggest one. Anyway, as far as what else happens
this summer.
Speaker 2: I agree they need to be on this list.
Speaker 1: What's gonna be fascinating is because cause you mentioned the
extension date, you have to have the answer well before then,
and I believe it will come organically because they'll know
where they end up in the draft. They'll have three
first round picks to trade. You have to kind of
see what you can do. Go to him and say
is this enough? And if he doesn't give the absolute
co sign yeah, I'll sign the extension.
Speaker 2: If X Y and Z happens.
Speaker 1: You can't do X, Y or Z at that point
you've exhausted enough trying to keep him.
Speaker 2: I respect it. I wouldn't be you.
Speaker 1: You could reasonably make the case because of just how
important he is to the fabric of the franchise you
just roll with him until he leaves in free agency
in twenty twenty. You shouldn't do that, but that he
is that type of player to where if he still
is being ambiguous about it, you go until the wheels
fall off. That said, it doesn't mean we trade everything
just to because we know we have him for another year.
You need some type of control, where it be the
commitment of him signing the extension. I don't think he's
gonna sign me extension. I don't know what the Bucks path,
but I I don't know what level of player they
would need to acquire with their draft equity and whatever
salaries they can send out for me to look at
them and say they have a real chance at an
Eastern Conference that next year is going to have a
full season's worth of Jason Tatum plus Tyre's Halliburn and
a Viza Zubats in Indiana.
Speaker 3: Yeah, why I haven't really thought about that's the will
he won't he of the extension. I was just thinking about, like, well,
that's the crossroads. Why do you think he won't sign
it or won't commit to signing it.
Speaker 1: I mean, even was it maybe it was mistranslated right
from the interview. I think it might have come from
euro Hoops or something, but that he said he was
going to have the right to decide in twenty twenty seven,
which makes me think that was he not planning on
signing the extension or is I just feel look at
what's happened when he signed extensions in the past. They
needed to make this big move, and so do you
make the big move without the promise of Giannis saying
he'll sign you, like, because if it's even well, well
we'll see, well like we'll see if if that's just
what the answer he gives you, the responsible decision.
Speaker 2: Would be to trade him.
Speaker 1: I understand why you wouldn't, but you certainly can't turn
around and then trade two first round picks anyway without
knowing whether you're honest is gonna sign the extension.
Speaker 3: Man, I mean, that's that's kind of how the Bucks
have operated. They did get the extension commitment, the one
the most recent time. But yeah, you can't do that right.
If it were any other situation, I would say, there's
no chance that they trade these picks and go get
some win now help without an assurance from you, honest.
But it's kind of like they've operated in a way
that's almost saying we'll go do all this and then
we'll present it to you and please sir favor us,
you know, holding out all these things they've done for him,
that's really scary. I do think if he does not
commit to signing the extension way before the deadline, if
I mean, if I'm the Bucks, I've traded him already.
But at that point you can at least go to
your fans and be like, fellas, like he was gonna leave.
We can't. We can't just let you want him to
just walk. At least that I think that gives the
Bucks like just another just another like fingernail on the scale,
that that excuses them from being the ones.
Speaker 1: To who initiates this and what we believe is it
inevitable or I don't know what's the who's the Is
there a player that you could say the Bucks traded
for him? That's enough to get Jannis to stay. How
high up the food chain are we going?
Speaker 3: Who's out there that could even so? Like if it's
Trey Murphy, not enough.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: If it's I mean like someone who he's not going anywhere, bro,
that guy's the guy's getting his statue built right now?
Are you kidding me? I knew it all along, by
the way. Uh no, he I mean I would have
said marking in would have been interesting, but now he's
not moving. Brunson. Yeah, I think if you get brunts
and that's probably that's certainly good enough.
Speaker 1: What if you get Austin Reeves some type of sign
and trade. I don't know why the Lakers help you
do that, but.
Speaker 3: That's borderline I think for you, Oh, COWI is interesting. Yeah,
you can't trust the health or that he's gonna be
allowed to play basketball. Potentially, the honest is out he's
that's enough to get it. Hey, that's what you do.
If you want to just rip the band aid off,
go get Polo and then you honest will believe. I mean, so,
I think if he doesn't say I'm signing it now,
please go make moves, then the Bucks are the ones
that come to him and say, like, you can't expect
us to go forward without a commitment. Right, we're gonna
trade you? Are you cool with that? And he's gonna say,
you'll be the ones to say that the franchise decided
to trade me, right, it's not. It's not that I
finally wont and gotten what I wanted without asking for it.
Then then you're good.
Speaker 1: Do you think that he because he's not gonna give
them an it would have to be the perfect trade.
I'm assuming I don't envision him giving them a definitive
answer before his extension date, because that allowed that gives
him plausible deniability.
Speaker 3: Well there at least it won't be public. I guess
I think he's I think he has to commit. If
I'm the Bucks, I say it's it's July first. I
know there's three months until you have to decide. Tell
us today right now, And because we can't go make
like you said, they can't go do X, Y and
Z until they know do we have you honest or not?
Or do we have the honest or whatever else we're
gonna get for him, because then you just like, then
you keep all the picks you trade him, you get
a bunch more. You get like the two paths are
so divergent based on his answer that you one need
the answer way before October first, and you can't. There's
no like in between the road to go. Either you're
trading all this stuff or trade none of it and
you're trading him. So if he doesn't give you an answer,
then to me, that's a no, I'm not signing it,
and we're starting trade. We're restarting trade negotiations immediately.
Speaker 1: To rep they because they belong on this list, whether
they trade Jannis or keep him, because if they keep him,
it's because they've done something seismics. I want to ask
you for a prediction. Is Yannis on the Bucks to
start next season?
Speaker 3: No? I think I think we finally have reached the
last possible off ramp uh and I think the Bucks
are gonna take it. What do you think? I agree
with you?
Speaker 2: I think I think.
Speaker 1: I just think that's where I if I thought Milwaukee
has currently constructed was closer to being an Eastern Conference
threat than it currently.
Speaker 3: Is, playoff playing team, if you thought they were a
playing team maybe, which they aren't.
Speaker 1: My pick, I'm gonna go with the small market Los
Angeles Lakers, and this rights itself for a couple of
Austin Reeves has the player option, and there have been
questions about is he gonna get the twenty five percent
max he could. With that being said, there's also the
Lebron James at all, he's gonna be a free agent.
Speaker 2: Seems like he's good as gone. That would be my prediction.
Speaker 1: I don't think Lebron's on the Lakers next year, but
the Lakers can also while carrying Austin Reeves's cap hold,
carve out close to fifty million dollars in cap space.
They are now one of only three teams that project
to have cap space. I don't like cap space can
be used for more than free agency, because this free
agency class isn't any great shakes unless you think that
they're gonna go poach Jalen Duran from Detroit. The Lakers
just having cap space plus, by the way, three first
round picks to trade, so whoever they take this year,
plus twenty thirty one and twenty thirty three, there they
have Luca. They're gonna do something. I don't know what
it's gonna be. I would I'm assuming they hope it's
multiple some things, but this is this feels like an
inflac point type of offseason for them, because what if
you just kind of run this back paper over the
margins and then what now you're selling fans on Well,
twenty twenty seven is going to be the year when
it's Luca's younger, but he's not getting any younger. So
I think Lebron James leaves. That's its own sort of
separate I'd be shocked if he's back on a discount
with the Lakers.
Speaker 2: I think they'll keep Austin Reeves, and I think.
Speaker 1: The goal will be they're trading multiple first round picks
while also hoping that they sign at least one in
But like, this is a team that I think ads
I'll put it this way, two players that should be
a part of their closing lineup next year.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think that was my next pick, by
the way, So it just has to be them, because,
like you said, Luca's not young, but you kind of
I mean, this is a pretty successful like transition year
or gap year, if that's what you want to call it.
As those go, you only get one if you have
a player like Luca. If you're not trying to win
the championship and you have Luca, what are.
Speaker 1: You doing if sign his extension, Well then we're really
get to that we're really interesting.
Speaker 3: So that yeah, they're they're you. I would echo everything
you said. I I think in addition to all that,
like it's everything has been gearing towards this, Like the
fact that Lebron's gonna leave is a result of him
not getting an extension, which the Lakers could have done,
and that would have eaten up the capsp Like they've
been signaling by not making a trade involving one of
their picks at the deadline to preserve the ability to
trade a bunch more over the offseason. All their moves
over the last really post Luca have suggested that we're
just gonna kind of figure it out until we get
to the twenty six offseason, and then then we'll make
this team because they've kind of just you know, messed
around and not done anything that's gonna prevent them from
doing big things since then. So yeah, they're they're a
great pick.
Speaker 1: They need to get some wings and a center in there, right.
I did want to ask you, though, is cap hold
will still be smaller so they can get to around
close to fifty million dollars in capitol, and they of
course open up more if they find, let's say, a
taker for Jared Vanderbilt's deal, or if we assume that
A eight and is picking up his player option. Austin
Reeves' maxes from the Lakers could be four years one
hundred and eighty five point nine million or five years
two hundred and forty point seven. Do you think and
if he was to go sign with a separate team,
it's four and one seventy eight point five.
Speaker 3: That's I don't know that there are.
Speaker 2: Enough teams with other cap space.
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna unless he gives them a dis
I think he won't get the five year.
Speaker 2: Max would be my prediction.
Speaker 1: But if he's signing a five year deal, it's he
gave them like a haircut off the two forty. If
it's only a four year contract, I think it's gonna
be ninety five percent, if not one hundred percent of
the max.
Speaker 3: I think it's the Pascal Siakam situation with Indiana, where
it was basically this exact thing they could do five
and more than anybody else. I thought from the that
it's you just need to be able. You just offer
him a dollar more than the other than any other
team can offer on a four year deal and say
you can't beat this and you're gonna be in LA
and you move up the pecking order at least one
spot with Lebron gone. Come on, man, like you're this
is you're taking this. I think it's gonna be four
for one, seventy nine or whatever whatever the max is
from another team, that's what it'll be. And like, I'm
I'm pretty comfortable with that number. I think if you
get the that the I don't know, it's probably like irrational,
but the five year max max max number, I don't
love it. And the just just knowing that if I'm
the Lakers, just knowing that I didn't pay him anything
more than another team could have, so therefore it was
like a market rate. I'm okay, I'm comfortable. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The final question I have for them is would you
take this?
Speaker 1: Would eat up most of your cap space basic basically
all of it, because it's the same it'd be the
same max deal that Austin Reeves can say are you
taking or close if Austin rus was to leave, are
you taking your cap space? And offering a four year
max offer sheet to Jalen Duran. If you're the Los
Angeles Lakers man daring the Pistons to see whether they're
gonna pay him the match forty plus million a year.
Speaker 3: Uh, I don't think Jalen Duran's worth that. I think
if I'm the now, I'm scared because I'm the Lakers
and I decided that DeAndre Ayton at this rate was like,
that's good enough for you know, so you got to
find something in the middle there You're not You can't.
I don't think you can pay Durhan forty a year.
My crazy?
Speaker 1: You think if you went so instead of let's say
the four for one eighty ish, if you went four
for one sixty, do you think that's still forty eight year?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: What is the number you have to go to?
Speaker 1: A number that makes the Pistons hesitant to match?
Speaker 3: I don't know what that number is. I I don't
think I'm doing that because I think the Lakers not
either each other stuff. I think, then you're not going
to get your defensive wing that can make threes. Then
it's just Duran's your guy. Reeves is your guy, Lucas
your guy, and you're playing minimums in the mid level
for the rest of the roster. I don't think that's
good enough. So I don't from a team building perspective,
I just don't think you can commit all that to
Durrant and then, especially if the Pistons might just match
it anyway, because who knows, well, at.
Speaker 1: That point that's hey, we messed with the Pistons books,
you might almost appreciate that type of game spinship.
Speaker 2: Who's in next team?
Speaker 3: Okay, those are the big two. I think we should
talk about the Thunder just because they're about ninety million
over the cap in the in their projections, they're gonna
be into the second aprin unless Isaiah Hartenstein makes twenty
eight and a half on a team option lou Door
eighteen point two on a team option. This just is
gonna be the offseason where some trimming probably needs to happen.
And that might be especially interesting because they might be
coming off a second straight title. But if you've got
Shay making forty one million, Chet and Jada both making
forty one and a half million next year, Alex CRUs
is making nineteen six, this is when it's going to
have to happen. I think, and maybe what happens is
those team options get declined, longer term deals get signed
for lower annual value, you move the Joe's and Wiggins
of the world or something else. But the Thunder just
feel like a team that will look different coming in.
And that's relevant because if they're losing players from their rotation,
that means there are very good players that are going
to be either traded or moved elsewhere, and a potential
two time champion looks very different trickle down wise. It's
not like they've got sixty million in cap space and
they're going to control the market or anything like that.
It's a different kind of control of the offseason. But
they sort of have to be a team that is
at least focused on don't you think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just curious.
Speaker 1: So they're they projected to be about twenty eight million
dollars into the second apron and that's before factoring in
what are they down to.
Speaker 2: They have one first.
Speaker 1: Round pick in this draft, so but it's before accounting
for any of that they have, Like you mentioned the
team options on Hartenstein, Dort and Kendrich Williams as well.
You're not making up though you can, but you can't
just man shaving thirty million dollars or whatever in salary.
That's gonna cost you one of Hartenstein or Dort and
then a Joe and An or.
Speaker 2: An Aaron Wiggins. Is that like, do you see them
going there?
Speaker 3: Like? Yet?
Speaker 1: It feels I'm wondering if this could be a season.
I agree with the pick. They're fascinating. I just wonder
if for a season do they trim their bill a
little bit by saying, oh, we're gonna decline these options
on Dirt and Hartenstein, but they're coming back cheaper. And
then I don't know if does that leave them within
if you get those two to take a haircut or
the span on a longer term deal, are you Alex
Caruso dump or Isaiah Joe dump away? Then from Ducking
to say maybe, I mean that.
Speaker 3: That presupposes that there's not gonna be I mean, maybe
you work this out in advance. So it's not like
Hartenstein will be surprised when his team option is declined
and he goes on the market. But like, I think
that there there will be those guys agents are talking
to other teams or like, so I would imagine there's
an understanding of like what's out there on the open market.
Should that. I think the only thing I feel confident
in is that of the three, certainly at least two
of those are going to be declined those team options,
and so free agency will become a thing for a
couple of those guys, maybe all of them. Are they
willing to take a haircut to come back? If and
how big a one? And if you're another team, are
you like, yeah, we'll pay Hartenstein twenty five million a year?
That makes sense? Or Dort, like Dort could be the
missing piece for us? Whoever? Trying to think of the
team the Hornets are just like we need him. He's
a lakery on James the Lakers, decent fit, got the
cap space. I mean, Hartenstein, I don't hate that on
the Lakers. As you're starting, he just signed.
Speaker 1: They sign Yeah, they worked.
Speaker 3: Out pretty well over there. Why not us? It's just
I think I don't know what I think is gonna happen,
But it does feel like there's room here for some
of these guys to get away, or the thunder to
have to trim elsewhere in order to bring them back
at deals that'll keep them from signing elsewhere. It's not
just like Hartenstein's ecstatic to get twenty eight and a
half million dollars taken away, and yes, sir, I will
come back for ten million a year, no problem. Like
that's he that's not happening. So there's there's gonna be
some uh tensions not the right word, but things could
happen here. I'm not rolling it out.
Speaker 2: Most likely player that you think wouldn't be back then.
Speaker 3: Uh, if it's me, it's Dort just because you've got
Cason Wallace, you've got Alex Caruso, and you've got Jalen Williams.
Your perimeter defense is good. Like it just he's the
most expendable to me.
Speaker 1: Alex Caruso is a little bit older then Ludort, And yeah,
I'm gonna go. I think it's Hartenstein. I think there
just might be like because if you decline, I think
someone would be willing to give him the balloon payment again.
Speaker 2: For at least two years.
Speaker 1: And so if you decline his team option, I don't
know that he's just gonna come back for sixteen or
seventeen million.
Speaker 3: And if that's the way it goes, then suddenly the
Thunder need another center. Unless you think Sorber is ready
to just step in because they don't like injury. Yet
they don't like chet at the five full time, and
I don't think that's the best use for him anyway.
So there's another that now they're on the market for
a guy who maybe they need to start. That'll be wild,
a two time champion, just like, well, shit, we need
a starter now we have no way to pay one.
That'd be interesting my turn.
Speaker 1: Let's go with the Brooklyn Nets, one of the other
three teams that are projected to have cap space this
coming summer. Here's something I clocked. Everyone clocked this. They
don't know in their own first round pick last year.
But we just went through a trade deadline where not
only did they keep Michael Porter junior, but they didn't
add any salary for next season, And so you start
to look at the space they could carve out where they're.
Speaker 2: Below the Lakers.
Speaker 1: I think the Lakers are gonna have league best cap
space now, but the Nets can pretty easily get to
forty five plus million themselves.
Speaker 2: Are they grant?
Speaker 1: Are they They're either gonna use that to facilitate other
teams as big swings, or they're gonna be looking to
be players themselves. They've already been cited as, oh, could
they be a dark horse Yiannis destination if they just
decide to go though, what, we're flexible and we'll give
you draft equity route. I do wonder if part of
the reason they held on the Michael Porter Junior was well,
we're gonna try and be good pretty quickly again, We're
gonna have another high draft pick. We have other draft
picks if we need to make trades, plus all this
financial flexibility.
Speaker 2: I just kind of looked at the.
Speaker 1: Fact that they didn't take on It wasn't that that
they didn't make a bigger swing or trade Michael Porter
Junior specifically, It's that they didn't impact their tap space
really in any way, shape or form, and they could
get incredibly Like if let's say you're if a team
is willing to take back terns Man's contract, they can
just take back sixty million dollars in money. That is
not nothing when you're looking at like what trade.
Speaker 2: Proposals could be out there.
Speaker 1: So I think the Nets are going to be active,
and not necessarily in the way that everyone would expect
a team in their position to be.
Speaker 3: No, they were. Might we've gone in order now that
they were my next pick, just they might have the
number one overall pick. That in itself puts them in
some pretty interesting conversations when you add in the cap space,
you add in the like they could. I think everything's
pointing to we're going to try to do some stuff
and like actually be fairly successful next year. You could
still trade Michael Porter Junior for some stuff if you
wanted to. If you wanted to, maybe go the other way.
So I think most signs point to them trying to
get good and they have the resources to do that.
I don't know what that looks like. The honest of
it all is a possibility, but yeah, they're they're going
to do something, whether that's the cap space play, putting
that number one pick on the table, probably that would
be crazy, but.
Speaker 1: But that would be like, what is the player Yannis
is too old for me to do that.
Speaker 2: I'm not, No, I'm not.
Speaker 1: As the Nets, there might be a team at the Hawks.
Let's say I still probably wouldn't do it, but that
that's a team's timeline where you could envision it. The Nets,
if they have a number one pick, cannot just cannot
trade for Giannis, right, I guess if that's the only
thing you're sending.
Speaker 3: Conversations, we're having a conversation right now. It's a conversation.
Speaker 2: By the way.
Speaker 1: They could also do what they did with Cam Johnson
to get Michael Porter Junior to where it's they trade
him to Portland for Jeremy Grant and then Bucks picks.
Speaker 3: Or something along those lines.
Speaker 2: They absolutely could do something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, that's a good team. So the next one
is gonna rub up against this a little bit. My
I guess this is my last pick. I have the Hawks.
They have that Pelicans pick. They have this Jonathan kaminga
twenty four million dollar free ride. If they want to
use it, they, I to me, are a sneaky Giannis suitor. Potentially,
I do think they have. If I'm looking at it right,
They've got like twenty four ish million in cap space,
so I could see them. That Pelicans pick is interesting
because it's probably not gonna be Number one, might be,
but it's a high enough point.
Speaker 2: Where it probably won't be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it probably won't be, but but uh, it's high
enough to where that's a real asset. They could put
that on the table with Kaminga and another matching salary,
and now you're really like, all right, well that's that's
a honest that's a starting point for your honest package
if you you might even be able to keep Jalen
Johnson out of it if you can put all that together.
So they're kind of like nets Light in terms of
the cap space, the value of that pick, and the
the like cominga versus the MPG salary slot as a
trade piece. But I do think they're obviously like far
better than Brooklyn, So it wouldn't take the size of
move you would need to make Brooklyn relevant to make
Atlanta more relevant. So I just they'll just they just
feel like a team too. To me, that is kind
of nosing its way into like the Houston tier of
like non coastal glamour markets that keeps getting brought up
in superstar trade possibilities to where it's like, I think
it's time to start thinking of Atlanta as as like
a second tier. They're gonna they're gonna attract somebody big,
whether it's like he's on my they're on my list
of trade demand like acceptable team, right, or they just
have the stuff to go get somebody and the players
is a high end guy is good with that because
Atlanta's like a pretty good place to be if you
can't be in LA or New York.
Speaker 2: They're just tough. And I think I'm scarred because I
was so high on.
Speaker 1: Them coming into this season and they just under delivered
yet again that I'm sort of like, what are you
doing here?
Speaker 2: If you're really gonna if.
Speaker 1: You trade a high draft pick for who Jannis and
Jalen Johnson? Is that and then you're playing with a
big as well? Is that that the plan there?
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't love that.
Speaker 3: Well, then maybe flip it. Do you think they just
come into next season? Will Cominga's coming back? We like
what we have with Johnson and a kong Wu And no,
we'll give you one further.
Speaker 1: What if you just trade Jalen Johnson and build around
Jonathan Kaminga?
Speaker 3: If you only play the Wizards, you will have a
dominant team and he'll he'll win MVP. But yeah, I
don't know. You don't like my Hawks pick. I can
feel it.
Speaker 2: It's something I don't like it. They were not.
Speaker 1: That's a fascinating because I think it troubles me that
they're a team that would consider trading wherever that Pelicans
pick is gonna land because what is the what's the
player you look at? Well? That would because Jannie even
it could have happened one of two ways. Well, okay,
we got Giannis and kept Jalen Johnson. What are we
kind of like? Is Jalen Johnson a three now hour?
Are we going without a big or did we just
trade Jalen Johnson to age ourselves up?
Speaker 2: You don't feel great about that?
Speaker 1: And so if it's not Giannis, who is the player
that you want to identify as, Oh, we're happy that
the Hawks made this big splash.
Speaker 3: Probably John Morant? Do you think.
Speaker 1: I don't think I feel that way about any team.
If that's the question, I don't think any team should
be answer.
Speaker 3: Do you think we should have just picked the Grizzlies
because the Joah Morant sweepstakes will be such a hotly
contested affair.
Speaker 1: I think they are bound to drum up more interest
in like a Zach Edie or jalhen Wells if they've
become available at this point. Tough times my final pick
before we'll each have a dark horse. I thought about
making this team I'm surprised you didn't pick them.
Speaker 2: The Warriors. I thought about making them my dark horse.
Speaker 1: They have unless you just believe that their content to
spin their wheels for what's left to the Steph Curry era.
They're gonna have five first round picks to trade that
monster Jimmy Butler expiring contract and he's not gonna play
until probably before twenty twenty seven, right coming off ACL injury.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got to be a full year.
Speaker 1: They also could have a Draymond Green on an expiring
says he picking up that twenty eight million dollar player
option or whatever it is, and then if if he doesn't,
or if the Warriors decide, because it's not just I'm
assuming the Warriors will be aggressive and searching for trades,
which they will have. I apparently or Discord called me
out for saying the Warriors Janni's offer was trash. I
don't know that it moved. Like not being able to
send out a blue chip youngster to Milwaukee. I think
should be a deal breaker from Milwaukee. If you're putting
any just combination of five first round picks on the table,
like when you get the equivalent of it, that's a
real offer.
Speaker 2: For some one.
Speaker 1: Do the Warriors feel beholden to the Steph Curry wanted
to go?
Speaker 3: Do that?
Speaker 1: And if they're not, does Draymond want to be like?
Does is he okay going out like this? Can they
even get value for him? And is Steph okay going
out like this?
Speaker 2: I assume that he will be.
Speaker 1: I don't expect other Warriors or trading Steph Curry report
or news break, but I just do they just want
to be in mediocrity then until Steph ages out of
the NBA that feels off to me as well, and
so forced to choose, I think they're gonna commit to
a path, and I'm assuming that path is gonna be
even if it's not the Yannis level type offer.
Speaker 2: We're gonna look back and say, oh.
Speaker 1: The Warriors traded two plus first round picks and did X.
I don't necessarily know what X is, but it's gonna
be something.
Speaker 3: No, that's a good pick, I think. I mean, you've
got you've got the assets to go. I mean, I
guess why I'm kind of like hesitating is they keep
they keep being a team that's involved in high level
trade talks. At least you.
Speaker 1: Remember that commercial I think it was for car insurance
where the guy has the fishing pole and there's like
a dollar on it and he's like holding it out
for the people.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm good, You're gonna get you. You're gonna get you.
Speaker 3: That's what the Warriors are like in trade though, So
you would assume then, you're right that this offseason it's like,
well they we will know that they they've got a
very competitive offer for your honest and it's just okay,
we knew that this time or this last time around.
What's that get you? Yeah, you're right. I think that
just because they're at a point where it's are we
what are we doing with all these picks if we're
not you know, shopping them basically. So I think that's right.
I'm on board with that. I don't know. I'm just
so the Warriors were just since Steph and Butler have
been out, it's just like they're not even on my
radar right now. I'm just not paying attention to them.
They slipped my mind. All right, Uh, dark horse time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's your dark horse pick?
Speaker 3: So I got a couple. I hope you'll just take
the other one. I think the magic based on the
way this season is gone, They're gonna have decisions to make,
and I think I think it's very very likely that
Jamal Mosley is gone. The question is how, if if
it goes beyond that at all, because if it's just that,
which everybody's kind of like that was almost like a
before this season even started, it was like, if this
doesn't go great, like that's the obvious next move, So
that won't be a seismic thing. But we've talked before
about like they're getting very expensive. Some of these extensions
are kicking in. You've got and we mentioned like Anthony Black,
that's a keeper. You're gonna have to start thinking about
what to do with him. But like maybe there's a
Jalen Sugs trade, Maybe there's a Fronz trade. Maybe you
joked about a Pollo trade, But like, I don't know,
it just seems like there's a potential for post Moseley
firing to be something else here. Yeah, I don't know
if that's why they're a dark horse, because it's like
it might just be they fire the coach and then
go into next season saying we fixed it like that,
we we started, you know, we did the easy thing.
But there could be more.
Speaker 2: And they're not.
Speaker 1: They don't fall into the if you're talking about to say,
the Calves or the Knicks or maybe the Rockets. It's
very much what we need to see. This is predicated
on what happens in the playoffs. The Magic might not
get that opportunity. This is much is gonna be predicated out. Okay, well,
how does the regular season end? Are they even going
to be in the playoffs? So that's what makes them
a more fascinating. So I'm with you on that one.
It's because they don't have picks to trade really after
this year.
Speaker 2: They could trade some, but I wouldn't advise it.
Speaker 3: You could trade for four or five though, could you?
The market says, could you? That's he's worth You saw it.
Speaker 1: I bet you we get a bunch of pallo for
Giannis hypothetical trade proposals. That's gonna be the trendy top
once his max extension kicks in. That's gonna be sort
of the trendy topic that people are gonna discuss.
Speaker 3: I could see.
Speaker 1: I also wonder, not even just the coach stuff, but
the lack of health. Do the Magic sit there and say,
we just don't have the sample size to say this
isn't gonna work. At the same time, Anthony Black is
going to be extension eligible, so he's not he doesn't
get expensive next year.
Speaker 2: But after the season he's had.
Speaker 1: Why would you accept anything less than what Jalen Suggs got,
which was five and one fifty And so that's gonna
have to be in the back of your mind too,
is it. Well, we're not gonna move Fronds or probably
that's too nuclear, but we're gonna move Jalen Suggs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, who arguably has been more integral to their success
when he's been available than either of those two bigger names.
But just the unavailability is you just can't pay a
guy that much that you don't know if he's gonna play.
Speaker 2: My dark horse here.
Speaker 1: I thought about the Bulls just because they're the only
other team that's projected to of cap space, but that
just doesn't seem fun. I'm gonna go with the Charlotte Hornets.
Were they your other team that you wanted me to
pick or no.
Speaker 3: I thought you might. I also had Cleveland just because
of the Mitchell extension stuff, and who knows what James
Harden is say.
Speaker 1: They were in the playoff category. For me to where
it feels like we're getting ahead of our skis if
we pick them now.
Speaker 3: Oh no, yeah, they're totally dependent on what happens. Yeah,
go ahead.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with the Hornets because they're so fucking
good as we're we're and it's not as we're forget
that as we record this. For more than a quarter
of the season, they have been basically a top let's say,
top seven offense and defense. There have been stretches where
they're top five in both, but like the defense is,
I don't know how great it is. I don't know
that I trusted to win a playoff series right now.
Speaker 2: I'd like to see them.
Speaker 1: You might even want them to get better than a
Musa Diabate at the five. I still certainly think the
Miles Bridges minutes or just even t John Salon, like
the four spot is low hanging fruit for them, or
even just another perimeter guy with size. If you say, well,
we Brendon Miller could be the form we have Conko Nipple.
Whatever they're they're itching if they finished the season as
they are now st especially if they get into the playoffs,
they have those Miami and Dallas picks in twenty seven.
They have an extra first round pick in twenty twenty
nine as well. They have all their own first round picks.
They have some I think if you're making a move,
you don't want to touch the Canipple Miller LaMelo Ball trio,
but you have enough matching salary elsewhere, none of which
is toxic financially. It's no deal that you're looking at
and say, oh, no, no, no, there's no Jeremy Grant contractor
Karl Anthony Towns type deal on the books. What if
they just decide that, yeah, like we're gonna go for Giannis.
What if they're the team that's if Yanna said he
wants to go to the East Coast because it's apparently
a closer flight to Greece, and he wants to be
with a guard who's not ball dominant. Now, LaMelo Ball
is pretty ball dominant, but he doesn't need to be.
He takes more catches you threes this year, but it
doesn't have to be honest. What if they're the Trey
Murphy team. What if they decide to go after two
doubles and it's, oh, like, we're the lou Dort team
and we like we trained for Isaya Hart side of
loud Dort from the Thunder or something. So this team,
I think that you could have made the case they
were gonna be looking to get good after this year,
regardless the fact that they've been able to be this
good for such an extended period of time. Add some
I would say pleasant variants to what they might do
over the offseason. There is any big name that's in
the front court, I honestly, short of it being a
small ball dominant guard, is there someone that can ambal
onto the trademarket of note that you would say that
they don't make any sense in Charlotte. That's also the
type of malleability this corps provides them with.
Speaker 2: Two.
Speaker 3: The thing I am now obsessed with because I just
was looking at the cap sheet ten seconds ago, is like,
could you use your picks to clear the salaries of Bridges,
Green and Williams, which is like fifty ish fifty plus
closer to fifty two, I guess. And then you get
in the restricted free agent offer sheet game and it's like,
it doesn't have to be Durham because that would take
almost all of it. But it's like, what if this
is just you make an offer to Tari Easton that
the Rockets can't match it. Now Tari Easton is in
there at the four, and you still have Dyubat at
the five, or you just they to some of the
restricted free agents are really tantalizing, and maybe the way
there's a lot right like that you could. I mean,
you still have you Kobe White that you're gonna need
to pay it to bring back. I do think he.
I mean, he's kind of a luxury, but I'm interested
in continuing that relationship if I'm the Hornets just because
you don't. Your bench offense is awesome now too, but
it would take a lot of like precursor moves. But
to get in the restricted cap space free agency game
would be because there's just such a handful of guys
that make a lot of sense. It'd be really exciting
for them. And then like, even if you're trading your
own picks, who cares because you're awesome and you can
just go now and you're gonna be conveying the twenty
fourth pick in the draft a couple of times or whatever?
Speaker 1: Do you think would they be? Let's just say I'm
assuming maybe if Milwaukee was acquiring this player while giving
up Yiannis. They want to keep him, but what if
he's extension eligible? So maybe if they're thinking about the
next duration of their team, it's do they want to
pay him Aman Thompson if they latch on to just
sort of like if he gets sent out in a
g honest deal. If that's the I don't think Houston
wants to give up and Thompson I don't, so I
bet against it. But that would be do they just
come in and throw more picks the bucks his way
and you swoop in and come get like imagine him
on this team?
Speaker 3: I mean, because then he's your four, right, and that's
a more sensible role I think for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they that's a good just even like just throw
like a lower level but still really good name out there.
Speaker 2: What do the Hawks want to do with a Kung Wu?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Could you get him?
Speaker 3: A lot of interesting What's interesting here is we've praised
the Hornets and and for behavior that has gotten them
to this point, which is like they've been very measured.
They've they've just picked up little incremental wins. They've been
opportunistic in going and getting someone like White, and they
were opportunists to go get Sexton before, which allowed them
to go get what then to then say time to
swing like that would be just character. But like the
timing feels right.
Speaker 1: And the other thing too is could they have their
darn Fox moment with san Antonio to where it's, oh,
they got that guy.
Speaker 2: But the price was just reasonable.
Speaker 1: It's not we gave up four first round picks for
Desmond Bane.
Speaker 2: It's we gave up.
Speaker 1: More so like the Utah deal, didn't feel like they
did anything outlandish, even though they gave up three first
round picks and Taylor Hendrix and Walter McNeely to get
to Jared Jackson. Your excuse me playing Tome, who, by
the way, would have been a fun ortage trade to
that's what you said earlier.
Speaker 3: Stands like they have their one, two and three set
and so just four and five is easy because any
player type is going to make sense as long as
you're a credible defender. So just the the like the
runway is clear, just this. The problem is they're over
the cap like right now. It's just it would have
to be a big trade, it can't.
Speaker 1: You know, can you get Peyton Watson from Dent because
Denver will match the mid level exception, like the fifteen.
Speaker 3: Million a year. If Denver doesn't match the mid level exception,
some investigations need to happen. That's yeah, that I wish
they had cap space and they could get it. They
would just cost them those picks trading these guys away.
Speaker 1: I will say, you, you need to know you're getting those.
I can't do it to get go after a restricted
free agent because I need to know.
Speaker 3: That, right, because then what you're doing then is clearing
the decks to just and then phase two of that
plan is we're definitely overpaying for this restricted guy because
we can't risk a match having done all this stuff
leading up to it. So, yeah, that's that's my pie
in the sky plane. It's not going to happen. I
wish they'd do it.
Speaker 1: Here's the better pie in the sky plane. They don't
even need to get him. I just want the Hornets
to make Jannis's list of preferred trade destinations.
Speaker 2: I need some. I want to.
Speaker 3: Just yeah, I would.
Speaker 1: I just want to play to identify an up and
coming team and say, you know what I want. I
want to be the He'll be the focal point now
for the most part. But then they're like built to
just let him age gracefully.
Speaker 3: You would think Yannis puts them on the list. Steph
sees it, says, you know what, like in my career
back home, Joannis and Steph come in and that's just
the rest they become.
Speaker 1: They've become the twenty whatever Brooklyn nets was that the
twenty eight team Brooklyn. That's when they blew up there
promising like team that they that's weren't nearly as plucky
as the sideration of the Hornets, but they're I think
there's a chance that their off season isn't compelling, which
is just because that's how they've operated over the past
few years. I do expect them to do even on
a not this player specifically, but on a Peyton Watson
level move.
Speaker 2: I think they'll do something like that.
Speaker 3: I hope. So, I mean, just it's sitting right the
room for you guys upgrade the listen. Sorry, but this
is gonna be the first in a series of episodes
where we find a way to shoehorn the Hornets in
and have a ten minute conversation about them, because this
is the most fun young team that's emerged in I mean, like,
I don't even know what the list is in a
long time.
Speaker 2: I just I would love to fast bottom.
Speaker 1: Don't necessarily need to fast for over, but if they
for some reason make the playoffs and give let's say
the Pistons or the Celtics or the Nicks hell in
a first round series, the number of inflammatory things that
I'm going to demand that they do over the off
season is going to be out of control.
Speaker 3: You could take your huge victory lap too on the
LaMelo of it all, because well, I mean, maybe they
need to do that playoff noise thing to really just
give his full w This is the still.
Speaker 1: Let's hope he stays healthy for the rest of this season,
and then he needs to continue being on the court,
and this needs like another season of I was before
I take my victory lap. Okay, all right, I gotta
build up my stamina to get to that amount of
cardio that I'm prepared this time.
Speaker 3: Next year, I will force the victory lap out of you.
Speaker 1: Anything elish Hornets or a third in the Eastern Conference
or something flirting with fifty victories. Johannis and Labello would
formed one of the best one one two him can nipple.
Speaker 3: Dreams, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Anything else those I think those were good dark Horse tyears.
Speaker 3: I mean, Charlotte Shure was put my Orlando pick the same.
Thanks everybody for watching, for listening, rate, review, and subscribe
to your friends till your enemy. Let us know if
we missed anybody. There's thirty teams. We only talked about
like eight of them, so I'm sure there's an actual
other dark horse, big offseason mover and shaker that is
worth discussing, and you can do that in our discord
as well. Links for that YouTube podcast subscription shouts Frank
Milakeina apologies, Jared Hallen