WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.160 What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 2 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:06.480 Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up 3 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:10.400 where we left off with Leslie Groff and her interview 4 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:14.599 with Congress Miss Brignac. I'll now enter into the record 5 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:19.359 majority Exhibit six, which is Bates stamped EFTA zero zero 6 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:23.480 nine five six five two four and dated March fourteenth, 7 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:28.359 twenty thirteen, Miss Brynac. Question in this email exchange or 8 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:31.839 redacted individual asked mister Epstein whether he will be in 9 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:34.600 New York and whether he has a place for her 10 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:38.159 to stay. Mister Epstein forwarded this email to you and 11 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:41.200 asked you and I quote less, do we have an 12 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:43.759 apartment for her? I'll give you a moment to review. 13 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:47.560 Question okay, mims Groff. Specifically, this woman says her check 14 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.439 friend will be in town, and mister Epstein asks if 15 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:53.320 you have an apartment for her? Who was this individual 16 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:56.320 that needed a place to stay? Answer? I don't know, sorry, 17 00:00:56.759 --> 00:00:59.000 question if you can't remember the name, did you in 18 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:02.920 fact secure an apartment for this individual? Answer? I don't know. 19 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:05.920 I was asked to see if there was an apartment available. 20 00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:08.560 I don't know what happened after that question. Is it 21 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:10.879 possible that you would have put her up at three 22 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:15.480 one E sixty sixth Street. Answer it's possible. Question did 23 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:18.599 you commonly arrange for housing for young women or girls 24 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:22.640 at three one e sixty sixth Street Answer? I did 25 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:25.359 arrange villa because I was directed and asked to set 26 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:28.079 aside an apartment for someone, and it could be women 27 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:34.319 and men. Question how many individuals did you secure housing 28 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:37.159 four at three oh one E sixty six Street Answer 29 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:41.159 over my could you be more specific? What do you mean? Question? Yes? Ever? 30 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:44.560 Answer ever? Oh, I don't know. I don't know. They 31 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:47.200 were guest apartments and he had guests come and go. 32 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:50.519 Question and what would be the purpose of these foreign 33 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:53.799 women staying at epstein Own residence? Answer? I don't know. 34 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:57.920 Question you never asked? Answer? I did not ask. Now, 35 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:01.840 Miss Tolan is asking a question. What was your understanding 36 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:04.519 of mister Epstein's involvement or did you understand them to 37 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:08.759 have an ownership in three oh one East sixty six Answer? 38 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:11.240 I thought that he owned the apartments. I didn't know. 39 00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:14.919 That's not something that I got into. Question and how 40 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:18.240 many apartments? Answer? I don't know, probably like ten apartments. 41 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:21.960 Question are those apartments separate from the office space you 42 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:26.199 worked in when you were in that building. Answer. Two 43 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:30.120 of the apartments became no longer guest apartments. They became offices. 44 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.639 Question And were the other eight apartments always occupied? Answer? No, 45 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:37.639 There would be times when no one would be in 46 00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:41.879 the apartments. Question, and we've mentioned a couple different individuals 47 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:44.560 that would be housed in these apartments. Were any of 48 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:49.560 mister Epstein's assistants housed in these apartments? Answer? Traveling assistants 49 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:52.599 could have an apartment there. Yes. Question and did he 50 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.039 pay the rent if they were living there? Answer? I 51 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:58.759 don't know. Question Were any other employees of mister Epstein 52 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.719 house there? Answer? I know at one point Lynn and 53 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:04.680 Jojo had an apartment there. I recall if you would 54 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:08.120 hire I recall somebody who was hired as an estate manager. 55 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:10.919 There was a gentleman. I don't know where he moved from, 56 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:13.719 but he moved into one of the apartments. There were 57 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:15.879 the pilots that each had an apartment there was I 58 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:19.360 believe Darren lived there for a little bit. Miss Brignac 59 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:22.120 or any Messus is housed at three oh one East 60 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:25.840 sixty sixth Street, Miss Groff No. Questioned by Miss Tolan. 61 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:29.000 And did mister Epstein house any of his girlfriends at 62 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:31.879 this apartment? Answer? I believe redacted live there for a 63 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:35.639 time and redacted live there for a time. Question and 64 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:38.759 you said you may have put someone in these apartments 65 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:41.840 on occasion, who else would have been involved in the process? 66 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:45.240 Answer just mister Epstein directing me to put a side 67 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.639 an apartment for someone. Question did you work with Richard 68 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:52.840 Kahn redacted Darren Endyke for any of these apartments? Answer no, 69 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:55.719 I don't think they had much to do with who 70 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:59.360 would be staying in the apartments. Now Brignac is asking 71 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:03.319 questions once again. Question was mister Epstein a registered sex 72 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:05.960 offender at the time that you were housing women from 73 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:10.719 Czech Republic? Answer? There were constant guests coming and going 74 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:14.479 from his apartments. Question sorry, was he a registered sex offender? 75 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:17.839 Answer it would be after he was a registered sex offender. 76 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:22.439 Question did that concern you? Answer? No question, Miss Groth. 77 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:26.399 This committee is attempting to understand the circle of people 78 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:29.759 that allowed for mister Epstein to continue the abuse of 79 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:33.800 young women and girls beyond his arrest. You never asked 80 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:36.920 anyone or express concern to mister Epstein about him housing 81 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:41.319 foreign women and girls in apartment housing. Answer, I did 82 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:45.079 not question him on his business. Question by Miss Tolan. 83 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:48.360 Did David Mitchell ever live in the three oh one 84 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:52.199 East sixty sixth apartment? Answer? I don't believe so. Question, 85 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.879 And you mentioned guests apartments generally. Is there anyone else 86 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:58.040 you can recall that staid in the three oh one 87 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:02.519 East sixty sixth Street apartment mister Epstein's guest Answer. I 88 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:04.959 recall a mother and her son who was getting treatment 89 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:07.720 at Sloan Kettering. They stayed for a good six months. 90 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:11.319 I know Ehud Barack and nearly his wife stayed at 91 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.160 three zero one. Who else? I mean? People would often 92 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:16.959 call and ask if they could stay some people, you know, 93 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:20.399 I didn't know everyone that was staying there. Question and 94 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:23.839 changing gears a little bit back to scheduling generally, you 95 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.079 mentioned you were responsible for scheduling all kinds of appointments 96 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:31.680 for mister Epstein. Is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question and 97 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:34.360 you were specifically scheduling for the meetings at the New 98 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:37.720 York Residence. Answer? Yes, I scheduled meetings for the New 99 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:42.240 York Residence. Question and what would the scheduling entel? Were 100 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:46.439 you setting times? Days people answer yes, question can you 101 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:51.199 explain Answer yes, times days for a lunch a breakfast. 102 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:53.759 If it was for a breakfast, I would need to 103 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.680 find out what that person wanted for a breakfast and 104 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:59.959 make sure to tell his maid Lynn what they wanted 105 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.399 for breakfast or lunch or dinner. I would coordinate meetings 106 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:06.160 for people who were visiting in town and wanted to 107 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:10.279 see standard question and would mister Epstein always direct you 108 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:13.680 who to schedule or did you have any discretion? Answer? 109 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:17.040 I had no discretion. Question were you instructed to schedule 110 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:21.439 certain individuals on a reoccurring basis? Answer no, there was 111 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:25.399 no reoccurring appointment. Question Were you ever instructed to schedule 112 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:28.720 certain people at the same time or on the same 113 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:33.120 day as other individuals? Answer no. Question were meetings ever 114 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:36.519 scheduled for the purpose of mister Epstein introducing young women 115 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:41.000 or girls to other prominent individuals? Answer? Can you say 116 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:45.560 that again? I'm sorry? Question yes, were meetings ever scheduled 117 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:48.560 for the purpose of mister Epstein introducing young women or 118 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:52.600 girls to prominent individuals? Answer no, not that I know of. 119 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:56.480 Question did mister Epstein ever instruct you to schedule appointments 120 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:00.639 with women directly before or after his business meetings? Answer no. 121 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:04.360 Question did you ever schedule a massage appointments for mister 122 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:08.040 Epstein in between meetings? Answer that would be early on 123 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:11.959 in my employment. Yes. Question and when the massage appointments 124 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:15.199 were scheduled in between business meetings, did the business guests 125 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:18.439 ever partake in the massages? Answer not that I know of. 126 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:23.680 Question was that an intentional scheduling tactic? Answer? I didn't 127 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:27.240 know of any tactics. I just scheduled disappointments as directed 128 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:29.560 by him. Question do you know if he would ever 129 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:32.759 invite the guests he was meeting with the partake in 130 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:36.519 the massages? Answer I do not. Question And were you 131 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:40.639 the one responsible for circulating mister Epstein's daily calendar? Answer? 132 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.399 I did circulate the calendar so that his staff would 133 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:47.519 know when to expect people, Miss Brignac. So did he 134 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:51.560 ever have a massage appointment on the calendar that you circulated? Groff? Yes, 135 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.959 early on, I believe so. Question sorry, after his arrest, 136 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.639 were there any massage appointments on the calendar that you circulated, 137 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:02.959 Miss Groff? No? Miss Toland. Did you create the schedule 138 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:06.240 that would be sent around? Answer? Did I actually type 139 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.680 it question yep answer yes, I typed it. Question did 140 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:13.600 anyone else help you create it? Answer? No? Question who 141 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:17.319 all would receive the schedule? Answer usually the house staff 142 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:19.680 or if a pilot needed to know something, he would 143 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:22.639 be included. It was Usually it was the internal people. 144 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:26.800 Question was it sent daily? Answer yes? Question and what 145 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.600 email would you send this from? Do you recall? Answer 146 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:34.720 my email address? Question yes? Answer it th redacted mister Backner, 147 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.720 if you recall graff, I don't recall what my email was. 148 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:40.960 It was a Gmail address. Question but you had one 149 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:45.200 individual email for work with mister Epstein. Answer that is correct? 150 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.279 Question and it would come from that email? Answer correct. 151 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:52.399 Question Did you ever maintain a different email address? May 152 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:55.320 be affiliated with Darren in Dyke's Law firm? Answer no, 153 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:59.759 it never changed. My email address never changed. Question do 154 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:03.039 you still have access to that account? Answer? I have 155 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:06.320 not logged into that Gmail account since I left. Question 156 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:09.279 do you know sorry? Go ahead? Answer yeah, I mean 157 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:11.639 I don't know if there's still access to it. I 158 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:15.120 don't know how long an email address remains. Answer okay. 159 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:17.639 And for mister Epstein, do you know how many email 160 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:22.360 accounts he had? Answer? I don't know this je e 161 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.200 vacation was his main email address. I don't know if 162 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.159 any other addresses that I can think of. Question and 163 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.600 you mentioned earlier, but you did not have access to 164 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:34.279 his email addresses? Answer that is correct. Question you didn't 165 00:09:34.279 --> 00:09:37.799 know the log in? Answer no, question never accessed it? 166 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:42.000 Answer no. Question Did you send emails on behalf of 167 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:46.080 mister Epstein? Answer I only sent an email as a directive. 168 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:48.480 I would pass on a message, but it was just, 169 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:51.799 you know, a message from mister Epstein is asking if 170 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:54.759 somebody if they're available. It was you know, I don't 171 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:59.080 really understand. Question, Miss Groff. This was covered a bit 172 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:01.799 in the last hour, but just to reiterate for the record, 173 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:06.120 do you know who Barbara Enbaum is? Answer? Yes. Question 174 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:09.279 and did mister Epstein hold meetings with her? Answer? Yes, 175 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.240 question how frequently? Answer only when she was in town. 176 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:16.679 I don't know how frequently, once a quarter maybe. Question 177 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:18.720 And what was the purpose of the meeting? Answer I 178 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.639 don't know. Question would she typically bring young women with 179 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.720 her to meet mister Epstein? Answer? I know she would 180 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.080 bring her graduates from the Stockholm School of Economics. I 181 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:32.399 believe that's who the women were. Question why was she 182 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:36.600 bringing them to mister Epstein. Answer because mister Epstein was 183 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:39.240 I don't know. He's a businessman, and maybe he could. 184 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:42.919 I don't know. Mister Buckner, don't speculate. Miss Groff, Yeah, 185 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:47.440 I don't know. I wasn't there, Toland. Was he hiring 186 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:50.080 these young women? Answer? I don't think he hired any 187 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.960 of them. Question was he helping them connect for other jobs? Answer? 188 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:57.559 I don't know. Question and were you directly involved in 189 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:03.679 helping schedule meetings between mister e Appas and Barbara Enbaum? Answer? Yes, 190 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:08.720 I scheduled meetings for Epstein and miss Enbomb. Question by 191 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:12.120 Miss Brignac. How would you know how long to schedule 192 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:14.720 the meetings for? Answer? I don't know. He was never 193 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:17.120 in meetings for a super long time, but I don't 194 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:19.799 know that he ever requested actual timing like set aside 195 00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:23.279 two hours. Question So how did you know how long 196 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:26.840 to schedule them for? Answer? I guess I just guessed. 197 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:29.559 I mean thirty minutes seemed to be pretty typical. Maybe 198 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:31.879 an hour if it was lunch or breakfast something like that. 199 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.879 Question would you ever hear if an appointment was going long? 200 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:39.440 Why that was? Answer? No, he might tell me to 201 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.080 move something. This appointment's going to go longer. Can you 202 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:44.919 please move, you know, shift the rest of the day? Tolin? 203 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:47.799 And were you ever present for any of the meetings 204 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:52.720 between miss Enbaum, the BBB Girls, and mister Epstein? Answer no. Question. 205 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:57.159 Did any other men ever meet with Nbaum, the BBB 206 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:02.360 Girls and mister Epstein? Answer I don't know. Question Do 207 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:04.840 you know if Jess Staley ever took part in a 208 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:08.240 meeting with miss Enbaum, the BBB Girls and mister Epstein? 209 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:14.399 Answer I don't know, I don't recall question. Reporting indicates 210 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:18.240 that Swedish finance feminist Barbara Enbaum was organizing Swedish girls 211 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:21.519 for Jeffrey Epstein for a fee. In fact, EFTA files 212 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:24.799 released by the Department of Justice even show routine annual 213 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.879 donations from mister Epstein to miss Enbaum, frequently in the 214 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.679 amount of twenty five thousand, but there was once talk 215 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:34.799 a potential donation of up to a million dollars? Are 216 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:39.120 you aware of these allocations? Answer no? Question And were 217 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:41.200 you aware of any of this conduct occurring at the 218 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:45.519 time you were as secretary? Answer no, Miss Brignac, you 219 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:50.000 never saw a transaction between mister Epstein and Barbara Enbaum Groff. 220 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.279 There may have been. He may have said send Rich 221 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.759 or have Rich send whatever the twenty five thousand. I 222 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:56.840 don't know, but I thought it was a donation to 223 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.440 the school. Toland, just ask one more time. Were you 224 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:03.080 aware that mister Epstein paid miss Enbaum large sums of 225 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:09.639 money in exchange for women or meetings with women? Miss Groff? No, Tolan, 226 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:13.320 And did mister Epstein utilize her meet with any other 227 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:17.120 organization similar to BBB Girls, Ms Groff, not that I 228 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:20.120 can recall. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, 229 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:22.240 and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're 230 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.639 going to pick up where we left off. All the 231 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.240 information that goes with this episode can be found in 232 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.399 the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another 233 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.240 episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going 234 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.480 to pick up where we left off with a Leslie 235 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:42.720 Groff interview with Congress Miss Brignac. Were there any other 236 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:46.120 organizations that promoted the advancement of young women that mister 237 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:48.919 Epstein was involved with? Answer not that I can think of. 238 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:51.840 Question did you find this to be unique interest of 239 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:55.440 a registered sex offender? Answer that he was friends with Barbara? 240 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.519 Question that he was paying large sums of money to 241 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.559 a school after a meeting with young women that attended 242 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:05.120 that school. Answer. I thought he was supporting Barbara and 243 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:09.759 the Stockholm School of Economics. Question okay, Miss Toland, Okay, 244 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:14.039 that will conclude our hour. Here we'll go off the record. Question, 245 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:17.879 Miss Groff, you previously testified that mister Epstein was incarcerated. 246 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:23.639 You stop booking Massages Forum? Is that correct? Answer? Correct? Question? 247 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.159 I would like to introduce as minority exhibit ce this 248 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.639 email exchange between you and a redacted person from October 249 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:35.559 twenty first, twenty eleven. The Bates number is EFTA zero 250 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:40.720 zero nine two one eight one nine. Question. In this exchange, 251 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.399 you write to this person quote Jeffrey says he called 252 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.440 you at ten thirty last night, but no answer. He's 253 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.399 wondering if you might like to stop by today redacted 254 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:52.679 at either three or seven. There are some back and 255 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:55.720 forth about scheduling, and then the person says, quote redacted 256 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.559 just got back and spoke to her now about tonight. 257 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.639 She's never done anything this sort before and is a 258 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:04.279 little nervous about the whole thing. I don't know what 259 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:06.960 Jeffrey has planned for tonight. But is it okay if 260 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.440 they just meet it this time? She would really feel 261 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.240 more comfortable that way. You then forward the email to 262 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:16.759 mister Epstein and he says, quote, of course, when this 263 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.120 person said that this other person, presumably their friend quote 264 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:22.960 has never done anything of this sort before and was 265 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.879 quote a little nervous about the whole thing, what did 266 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:29.039 you understand her to mean? Answer? You got to understand, 267 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.840 my day was super busy. I'm sure that I barely 268 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:34.720 read this email. And she gets cut off. Well, you 269 00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:38.440 clearly registered what she said, because you forwarded her question 270 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.759 onto mister Epstein, and he said, of course, so you 271 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:43.159 must have registered it if you knew she was making 272 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.720 a request of you that you needed his sign off 273 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.200 for right answer, I'm sure that I did not put 274 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.480 that much thought into it. I'm sure that my day. 275 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:54.120 You got to understand, my day was not just focused 276 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:56.720 on this one area of appointments. I had so many 277 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.519 other things going on as well. Question I understand that 278 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:04.840 answer and write and so question It doesn't answer my question, though, 279 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.960 Miss Groff, what do you think this person's friend had 280 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.879 never done before? Answer? I don't know. Question, what do 281 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:14.799 you think this person's friend was nervous about. Answer, I 282 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.559 don't know. Question, do you think that it's a fair 283 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.679 reading of this email chain that mister Epstein called someone 284 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:23.320 likely a girl or a young woman at ten thirty 285 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.080 at night, they didn't pick up, and then ask you 286 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.679 to contact them to schedule a massage. You did that, 287 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:32.120 and the thing that this person was nervous about, the 288 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.519 thing that they never done before, was massaging mister Epstein, 289 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.600 whatever that might have meant. Is that a fair reading 290 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.840 of this email, Miss Groff? Answer? It doesn't say anything 291 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:45.240 about massage. I don't know what this was for, mister Backner. 292 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:47.720 Are you asking whether today she would agree that this 293 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.559 could be a fair reading of what you're saying or 294 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:54.480 what she knew back then? Answer or question? I mean, 295 00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:57.200 I understand that she's testifying that she does not remember 296 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.759 this particular instance. I'm asking her, given that, given that 297 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.320 you do not remember it, and also that you did 298 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.359 schedule massages for this man for a long time, whether 299 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:09.880 it's fair reading of this chain that what I described 300 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:14.000 earlier is what happened. Backner, knowing what you know now, Groff, 301 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:18.400 knowing what I know now? Yes, redacted question, Miss Groff. 302 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:22.200 This email is from twenty eleven. You previously testified that 303 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.079 after mister Epstein was incarcerated, you stopped booking massages for him. 304 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.279 Answer that's correct. Question. He was incarcerated from two thousand 305 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:34.200 and eight to two thousand and nine. Correct answer correct question. 306 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:37.319 So wouldn't this suggest that you continued to book massages 307 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.039 forum answer? I would not have known that this was 308 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.519 a massage. I don't know. You're assuming that I would 309 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:45.599 think that this was a massage, but I did not 310 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:48.640 think of it as a massage. I said. I probably 311 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.200 didn't put that much thought into it. I was super busy. 312 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:52.880 I just needed to know if you would be able 313 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.160 to meet with this person. He said yes, and I'm 314 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.240 sure my day just moved on. Question Well, surely he 315 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.119 instructed you to reach out to this person, though, because 316 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:03.519 you're the first one in the email. You email and 317 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:05.920 you say he called you last night at ten thirty. 318 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:10.079 Answer yes. Question, So when he instructed you, wouldn't you 319 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.880 have said, hey, miss Groff, can you schedule this person 320 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:16.519 for a massage? Backner, I'm sorry to interrupt. If we 321 00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:19.319 knew the redacted name, maybe that could help her know 322 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.240 what this is about. But right now it's a redacted name. 323 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:25.680 You're asking her to speculate as to what this possibility 324 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:29.039 could mean. It's kind of not fair, miss Groff. I 325 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:31.559 was just making an appointment for him. As requested. He 326 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:33.799 wanted to know if this person could come over at 327 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.880 three or seven, and as directed by him, I asked 328 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.640 if this person could come over at three or seven redacted. 329 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.319 So your testimony today is that, as far as you know, 330 00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:46.319 this was not the book of massage, and you stand 331 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:49.440 by your earlier statement that mister Epstein was incarcerated, you 332 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.519 no longer book massages for him, Miss Groff. That is correct, 333 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.119 except for maybe the one time in Palm Beach at 334 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:59.440 the medical spa redacted after he was incarcerated. Did you 335 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.759 coordinate for massages, Miss Groff, no question. I would like 336 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:07.279 to introduce this minority Exhibit D. This email exchange between 337 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:12.039 you and mister Epstein from September nineteenth, twenty eleven. Debates 338 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:16.279 number is EFTA zero one eight five five zero six' nine. 339 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:20.119 Question in the first email you write to Mister epstein 340 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.480 that quote redacted would like to pick up money for 341 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.759 time spent on the. Island how much SHOULD i tell 342 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:27.880 redacted to give? Her Mister epstein then, responds quote six, 343 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:31.519 hundred and you've mentioned redacted. Before can you remind me 344 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.039 what her role? Was? Answer she was in the accounting. 345 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.440 Department question and the island refers To Little Saint. James correct. 346 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.680 Answer correct. Question what was your understanding of why this 347 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.599 person was being paid for the time they spent on the? Island? ANSWER, 348 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:49.000 i unfortunately don't know who this person. IS i don't 349 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.799 recall this, email AND i don't know what this person was. 350 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:55.839 Doing he had architects and decorators and artists go to his. 351 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:58.680 Island he was constantly trying to redecorate and do things. 352 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.079 THERE i don't know what this. Was four. Question the 353 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:05.279 email doesn't say for any kind of specific, task. Right 354 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:08.440 it doesn't say for, redecorating it doesn't say for. Building 355 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:11.839 it says for time spent on the. Island and the 356 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:16.319 amount is six. Hundred correct. Answer correct. Question when Mister 357 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.319 epstein would pay girls and women for massages where he 358 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.480 sexually abused, them he would typically pay them two or 359 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.720 three hundred correct, answer correct. Question so isn't it a 360 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:29.440 fair reading of this? Email the six hundred is likely 361 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:33.039 for two instances where Mister epstein received a massage and 362 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:36.920 sexually abused a girl or a young. Woman. Answer at the, 363 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:40.480 TIME i did not know that's what was. OCCURRING i 364 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:43.400 never saw anything, Inappropriate so my mind was not going 365 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:46.000 in the direction you're trying to take my. Mind everything 366 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:48.519 to me THAT i was, DOING i feel like now 367 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:51.839 looking through a dirty, lens things look. Dirty but this 368 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.359 TIME i was unaware of anything that was going. On. 369 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:58.279 Question so this was twenty, eleven, though so you weren't 370 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.799 aware because you had been investigating or he had been 371 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.759 investigated and, arrested he had pleaded guilty to the, charges 372 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:07.799 one of which involved a, Minor he had been, incarcerated 373 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.119 he had been on house. Arrest there was a lot 374 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.519 of stories in the news about. Him so actually you 375 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:15.400 did have information about who this man was and what 376 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.599 he had. Done admittedly that was not, Complete but wouldn't 377 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.960 that have informed you of how to understand this? Email? 378 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.000 Answer at the, TIME i was still being told that 379 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.440 he had been blackmailed and that this sentence was for 380 00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:31.680 soliciting a. PROSTITUTE i didn't know that these other things 381 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:34.680 were occurring at the, time and he lied to, Me 382 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.240 he manipulated, me and he had me as. Well it 383 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.480 seems to me everyone else believing that this was that 384 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:43.480 things out there were being said were wrong and just. False, 385 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:47.759 question and what about looking back at it, now do 386 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:49.240 you think that it was a fair reading of the? 387 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:52.279 Email is that a girl or young woman who was 388 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.480 on the island was asking to be paid for instances 389 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:59.720 where she was sexually. Abused answer in hindsight and being 390 00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:01.960 an as to see the big picture in his emails 391 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:06.039 and what everybody is saying, Now, yeah it's terrible. Question, 392 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:09.519 okay and this is also from twenty, eleven so also 393 00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:12.759 for his. Incarceration so then your previous statement about how 394 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.720 he didn't help pay girls who had massaged them after 395 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:21.400 his incarceration was. Incorrect Mister whitcomb, objection that's not what she. 396 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:26.960 Said you're a mischaracterizing her. Testimony. Redacted the rules of 397 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.480 evidence do not apply. Here please answer the, question Mister. Whitcomb, 398 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.640 yeah but the rules of fairness apply. Redacted could you 399 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.519 please answer the? Question witcomb object to the form of 400 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:41.200 the question. Too it's, incoherent Mister, backner. Misredacted could you 401 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.119