Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
Speaker 1: where we left off with Leslie Groff and her interview
Speaker 1: with Congress Miss Brignac. I'll now enter into the record
Speaker 1: majority Exhibit six, which is Bates stamped EFTA zero zero
Speaker 1: nine five six five two four and dated March fourteenth,
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, Miss Brynac. Question in this email exchange or
Speaker 1: redacted individual asked mister Epstein whether he will be in
Speaker 1: New York and whether he has a place for her
Speaker 1: to stay. Mister Epstein forwarded this email to you and
Speaker 1: asked you and I quote less, do we have an
Speaker 1: apartment for her? I'll give you a moment to review.
Speaker 1: Question okay, mims Groff. Specifically, this woman says her check
Speaker 1: friend will be in town, and mister Epstein asks if
Speaker 1: you have an apartment for her? Who was this individual
Speaker 1: that needed a place to stay? Answer? I don't know, sorry,
Speaker 1: question if you can't remember the name, did you in
Speaker 1: fact secure an apartment for this individual? Answer? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was asked to see if there was an apartment available.
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened after that question. Is it
Speaker 1: possible that you would have put her up at three
Speaker 1: one E sixty sixth Street. Answer it's possible. Question did
Speaker 1: you commonly arrange for housing for young women or girls
Speaker 1: at three one e sixty sixth Street Answer? I did
Speaker 1: arrange villa because I was directed and asked to set
Speaker 1: aside an apartment for someone, and it could be women
Speaker 1: and men. Question how many individuals did you secure housing
Speaker 1: four at three oh one E sixty six Street Answer
Speaker 1: over my could you be more specific? What do you mean? Question? Yes? Ever?
Speaker 1: Answer ever? Oh, I don't know. I don't know. They
Speaker 1: were guest apartments and he had guests come and go.
Speaker 1: Question and what would be the purpose of these foreign
Speaker 1: women staying at epstein Own residence? Answer? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Question you never asked? Answer? I did not ask. Now,
Speaker 1: Miss Tolan is asking a question. What was your understanding
Speaker 1: of mister Epstein's involvement or did you understand them to
Speaker 1: have an ownership in three oh one East sixty six Answer?
Speaker 1: I thought that he owned the apartments. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: That's not something that I got into. Question and how
Speaker 1: many apartments? Answer? I don't know, probably like ten apartments.
Speaker 1: Question are those apartments separate from the office space you
Speaker 1: worked in when you were in that building. Answer. Two
Speaker 1: of the apartments became no longer guest apartments. They became offices.
Speaker 1: Question And were the other eight apartments always occupied? Answer? No,
Speaker 1: There would be times when no one would be in
Speaker 1: the apartments. Question, and we've mentioned a couple different individuals
Speaker 1: that would be housed in these apartments. Were any of
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's assistants housed in these apartments? Answer? Traveling assistants
Speaker 1: could have an apartment there. Yes. Question and did he
Speaker 1: pay the rent if they were living there? Answer? I
Speaker 1: don't know. Question Were any other employees of mister Epstein
Speaker 1: house there? Answer? I know at one point Lynn and
Speaker 1: Jojo had an apartment there. I recall if you would
Speaker 1: hire I recall somebody who was hired as an estate manager.
Speaker 1: There was a gentleman. I don't know where he moved from,
Speaker 1: but he moved into one of the apartments. There were
Speaker 1: the pilots that each had an apartment there was I
Speaker 1: believe Darren lived there for a little bit. Miss Brignac
Speaker 1: or any Messus is housed at three oh one East
Speaker 1: sixty sixth Street, Miss Groff No. Questioned by Miss Tolan.
Speaker 1: And did mister Epstein house any of his girlfriends at
Speaker 1: this apartment? Answer? I believe redacted live there for a
Speaker 1: time and redacted live there for a time. Question and
Speaker 1: you said you may have put someone in these apartments
Speaker 1: on occasion, who else would have been involved in the process?
Speaker 1: Answer just mister Epstein directing me to put a side
Speaker 1: an apartment for someone. Question did you work with Richard
Speaker 1: Kahn redacted Darren Endyke for any of these apartments? Answer no,
Speaker 1: I don't think they had much to do with who
Speaker 1: would be staying in the apartments. Now Brignac is asking
Speaker 1: questions once again. Question was mister Epstein a registered sex
Speaker 1: offender at the time that you were housing women from
Speaker 1: Czech Republic? Answer? There were constant guests coming and going
Speaker 1: from his apartments. Question sorry, was he a registered sex offender?
Speaker 1: Answer it would be after he was a registered sex offender.
Speaker 1: Question did that concern you? Answer? No question, Miss Groth.
Speaker 1: This committee is attempting to understand the circle of people
Speaker 1: that allowed for mister Epstein to continue the abuse of
Speaker 1: young women and girls beyond his arrest. You never asked
Speaker 1: anyone or express concern to mister Epstein about him housing
Speaker 1: foreign women and girls in apartment housing. Answer, I did
Speaker 1: not question him on his business. Question by Miss Tolan.
Speaker 1: Did David Mitchell ever live in the three oh one
Speaker 1: East sixty sixth apartment? Answer? I don't believe so. Question,
Speaker 1: And you mentioned guests apartments generally. Is there anyone else
Speaker 1: you can recall that staid in the three oh one
Speaker 1: East sixty sixth Street apartment mister Epstein's guest Answer. I
Speaker 1: recall a mother and her son who was getting treatment
Speaker 1: at Sloan Kettering. They stayed for a good six months.
Speaker 1: I know Ehud Barack and nearly his wife stayed at
Speaker 1: three zero one. Who else? I mean? People would often
Speaker 1: call and ask if they could stay some people, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't know everyone that was staying there. Question and
Speaker 1: changing gears a little bit back to scheduling generally, you
Speaker 1: mentioned you were responsible for scheduling all kinds of appointments
Speaker 1: for mister Epstein. Is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question and
Speaker 1: you were specifically scheduling for the meetings at the New
Speaker 1: York Residence. Answer? Yes, I scheduled meetings for the New
Speaker 1: York Residence. Question and what would the scheduling entel? Were
Speaker 1: you setting times? Days people answer yes, question can you
Speaker 1: explain Answer yes, times days for a lunch a breakfast.
Speaker 1: If it was for a breakfast, I would need to
Speaker 1: find out what that person wanted for a breakfast and
Speaker 1: make sure to tell his maid Lynn what they wanted
Speaker 1: for breakfast or lunch or dinner. I would coordinate meetings
Speaker 1: for people who were visiting in town and wanted to
Speaker 1: see standard question and would mister Epstein always direct you
Speaker 1: who to schedule or did you have any discretion? Answer?
Speaker 1: I had no discretion. Question were you instructed to schedule
Speaker 1: certain individuals on a reoccurring basis? Answer no, there was
Speaker 1: no reoccurring appointment. Question Were you ever instructed to schedule
Speaker 1: certain people at the same time or on the same
Speaker 1: day as other individuals? Answer no. Question were meetings ever
Speaker 1: scheduled for the purpose of mister Epstein introducing young women
Speaker 1: or girls to other prominent individuals? Answer? Can you say
Speaker 1: that again? I'm sorry? Question yes, were meetings ever scheduled
Speaker 1: for the purpose of mister Epstein introducing young women or
Speaker 1: girls to prominent individuals? Answer no, not that I know of.
Speaker 1: Question did mister Epstein ever instruct you to schedule appointments
Speaker 1: with women directly before or after his business meetings? Answer no.
Speaker 1: Question did you ever schedule a massage appointments for mister
Speaker 1: Epstein in between meetings? Answer that would be early on
Speaker 1: in my employment. Yes. Question and when the massage appointments
Speaker 1: were scheduled in between business meetings, did the business guests
Speaker 1: ever partake in the massages? Answer not that I know of.
Speaker 1: Question was that an intentional scheduling tactic? Answer? I didn't
Speaker 1: know of any tactics. I just scheduled disappointments as directed
Speaker 1: by him. Question do you know if he would ever
Speaker 1: invite the guests he was meeting with the partake in
Speaker 1: the massages? Answer I do not. Question And were you
Speaker 1: the one responsible for circulating mister Epstein's daily calendar? Answer?
Speaker 1: I did circulate the calendar so that his staff would
Speaker 1: know when to expect people, Miss Brignac. So did he
Speaker 1: ever have a massage appointment on the calendar that you circulated? Groff? Yes,
Speaker 1: early on, I believe so. Question sorry, after his arrest,
Speaker 1: were there any massage appointments on the calendar that you circulated,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff? No? Miss Toland. Did you create the schedule
Speaker 1: that would be sent around? Answer? Did I actually type
Speaker 1: it question yep answer yes, I typed it. Question did
Speaker 1: anyone else help you create it? Answer? No? Question who
Speaker 1: all would receive the schedule? Answer usually the house staff
Speaker 1: or if a pilot needed to know something, he would
Speaker 1: be included. It was Usually it was the internal people.
Speaker 1: Question was it sent daily? Answer yes? Question and what
Speaker 1: email would you send this from? Do you recall? Answer
Speaker 1: my email address? Question yes? Answer it th redacted mister Backner,
Speaker 1: if you recall graff, I don't recall what my email was.
Speaker 1: It was a Gmail address. Question but you had one
Speaker 1: individual email for work with mister Epstein. Answer that is correct?
Speaker 1: Question and it would come from that email? Answer correct.
Speaker 1: Question Did you ever maintain a different email address? May
Speaker 1: be affiliated with Darren in Dyke's Law firm? Answer no,
Speaker 1: it never changed. My email address never changed. Question do
Speaker 1: you still have access to that account? Answer? I have
Speaker 1: not logged into that Gmail account since I left. Question
Speaker 1: do you know sorry? Go ahead? Answer yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's still access to it. I
Speaker 1: don't know how long an email address remains. Answer okay.
Speaker 1: And for mister Epstein, do you know how many email
Speaker 1: accounts he had? Answer? I don't know this je e
Speaker 1: vacation was his main email address. I don't know if
Speaker 1: any other addresses that I can think of. Question and
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, but you did not have access to
Speaker 1: his email addresses? Answer that is correct. Question you didn't
Speaker 1: know the log in? Answer no, question never accessed it?
Speaker 1: Answer no. Question Did you send emails on behalf of
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer I only sent an email as a directive.
Speaker 1: I would pass on a message, but it was just,
Speaker 1: you know, a message from mister Epstein is asking if
Speaker 1: somebody if they're available. It was you know, I don't
Speaker 1: really understand. Question, Miss Groff. This was covered a bit
Speaker 1: in the last hour, but just to reiterate for the record,
Speaker 1: do you know who Barbara Enbaum is? Answer? Yes. Question
Speaker 1: and did mister Epstein hold meetings with her? Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: question how frequently? Answer only when she was in town.
Speaker 1: I don't know how frequently, once a quarter maybe. Question
Speaker 1: And what was the purpose of the meeting? Answer I
Speaker 1: don't know. Question would she typically bring young women with
Speaker 1: her to meet mister Epstein? Answer? I know she would
Speaker 1: bring her graduates from the Stockholm School of Economics. I
Speaker 1: believe that's who the women were. Question why was she
Speaker 1: bringing them to mister Epstein. Answer because mister Epstein was
Speaker 1: I don't know. He's a businessman, and maybe he could.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Mister Buckner, don't speculate. Miss Groff, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I wasn't there, Toland. Was he hiring
Speaker 1: these young women? Answer? I don't think he hired any
Speaker 1: of them. Question was he helping them connect for other jobs? Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question and were you directly involved in
Speaker 1: helping schedule meetings between mister e Appas and Barbara Enbaum? Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: I scheduled meetings for Epstein and miss Enbomb. Question by
Speaker 1: Miss Brignac. How would you know how long to schedule
Speaker 1: the meetings for? Answer? I don't know. He was never
Speaker 1: in meetings for a super long time, but I don't
Speaker 1: know that he ever requested actual timing like set aside
Speaker 1: two hours. Question So how did you know how long
Speaker 1: to schedule them for? Answer? I guess I just guessed.
Speaker 1: I mean thirty minutes seemed to be pretty typical. Maybe
Speaker 1: an hour if it was lunch or breakfast something like that.
Speaker 1: Question would you ever hear if an appointment was going long?
Speaker 1: Why that was? Answer? No, he might tell me to
Speaker 1: move something. This appointment's going to go longer. Can you
Speaker 1: please move, you know, shift the rest of the day? Tolin?
Speaker 1: And were you ever present for any of the meetings
Speaker 1: between miss Enbaum, the BBB Girls, and mister Epstein? Answer no. Question.
Speaker 1: Did any other men ever meet with Nbaum, the BBB
Speaker 1: Girls and mister Epstein? Answer I don't know. Question Do
Speaker 1: you know if Jess Staley ever took part in a
Speaker 1: meeting with miss Enbaum, the BBB Girls and mister Epstein?
Speaker 1: Answer I don't know, I don't recall question. Reporting indicates
Speaker 1: that Swedish finance feminist Barbara Enbaum was organizing Swedish girls
Speaker 1: for Jeffrey Epstein for a fee. In fact, EFTA files
Speaker 1: released by the Department of Justice even show routine annual
Speaker 1: donations from mister Epstein to miss Enbaum, frequently in the
Speaker 1: amount of twenty five thousand, but there was once talk
Speaker 1: a potential donation of up to a million dollars? Are
Speaker 1: you aware of these allocations? Answer no? Question And were
Speaker 1: you aware of any of this conduct occurring at the
Speaker 1: time you were as secretary? Answer no, Miss Brignac, you
Speaker 1: never saw a transaction between mister Epstein and Barbara Enbaum Groff.
Speaker 1: There may have been. He may have said send Rich
Speaker 1: or have Rich send whatever the twenty five thousand. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but I thought it was a donation to
Speaker 1: the school. Toland, just ask one more time. Were you
Speaker 1: aware that mister Epstein paid miss Enbaum large sums of
Speaker 1: money in exchange for women or meetings with women? Miss Groff? No, Tolan,
Speaker 1: And did mister Epstein utilize her meet with any other
Speaker 1: organization similar to BBB Girls, Ms Groff, not that I
Speaker 1: can recall. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here,
Speaker 1: and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off with a Leslie
Speaker 1: Groff interview with Congress Miss Brignac. Were there any other
Speaker 1: organizations that promoted the advancement of young women that mister
Speaker 1: Epstein was involved with? Answer not that I can think of.
Speaker 1: Question did you find this to be unique interest of
Speaker 1: a registered sex offender? Answer that he was friends with Barbara?
Speaker 1: Question that he was paying large sums of money to
Speaker 1: a school after a meeting with young women that attended
Speaker 1: that school. Answer. I thought he was supporting Barbara and
Speaker 1: the Stockholm School of Economics. Question okay, Miss Toland, Okay,
Speaker 1: that will conclude our hour. Here we'll go off the record. Question,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, you previously testified that mister Epstein was incarcerated.
Speaker 1: You stop booking Massages Forum? Is that correct? Answer? Correct? Question?
Speaker 1: I would like to introduce as minority exhibit ce this
Speaker 1: email exchange between you and a redacted person from October
Speaker 1: twenty first, twenty eleven. The Bates number is EFTA zero
Speaker 1: zero nine two one eight one nine. Question. In this exchange,
Speaker 1: you write to this person quote Jeffrey says he called
Speaker 1: you at ten thirty last night, but no answer. He's
Speaker 1: wondering if you might like to stop by today redacted
Speaker 1: at either three or seven. There are some back and
Speaker 1: forth about scheduling, and then the person says, quote redacted
Speaker 1: just got back and spoke to her now about tonight.
Speaker 1: She's never done anything this sort before and is a
Speaker 1: little nervous about the whole thing. I don't know what
Speaker 1: Jeffrey has planned for tonight. But is it okay if
Speaker 1: they just meet it this time? She would really feel
Speaker 1: more comfortable that way. You then forward the email to
Speaker 1: mister Epstein and he says, quote, of course, when this
Speaker 1: person said that this other person, presumably their friend quote
Speaker 1: has never done anything of this sort before and was
Speaker 1: quote a little nervous about the whole thing, what did
Speaker 1: you understand her to mean? Answer? You got to understand,
Speaker 1: my day was super busy. I'm sure that I barely
Speaker 1: read this email. And she gets cut off. Well, you
Speaker 1: clearly registered what she said, because you forwarded her question
Speaker 1: onto mister Epstein, and he said, of course, so you
Speaker 1: must have registered it if you knew she was making
Speaker 1: a request of you that you needed his sign off
Speaker 1: for right answer, I'm sure that I did not put
Speaker 1: that much thought into it. I'm sure that my day.
Speaker 1: You got to understand, my day was not just focused
Speaker 1: on this one area of appointments. I had so many
Speaker 1: other things going on as well. Question I understand that
Speaker 1: answer and write and so question It doesn't answer my question, though,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, what do you think this person's friend had
Speaker 1: never done before? Answer? I don't know. Question, what do
Speaker 1: you think this person's friend was nervous about. Answer, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Question, do you think that it's a fair
Speaker 1: reading of this email chain that mister Epstein called someone
Speaker 1: likely a girl or a young woman at ten thirty
Speaker 1: at night, they didn't pick up, and then ask you
Speaker 1: to contact them to schedule a massage. You did that,
Speaker 1: and the thing that this person was nervous about, the
Speaker 1: thing that they never done before, was massaging mister Epstein,
Speaker 1: whatever that might have meant. Is that a fair reading
Speaker 1: of this email, Miss Groff? Answer? It doesn't say anything
Speaker 1: about massage. I don't know what this was for, mister Backner.
Speaker 1: Are you asking whether today she would agree that this
Speaker 1: could be a fair reading of what you're saying or
Speaker 1: what she knew back then? Answer or question? I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand that she's testifying that she does not remember
Speaker 1: this particular instance. I'm asking her, given that, given that
Speaker 1: you do not remember it, and also that you did
Speaker 1: schedule massages for this man for a long time, whether
Speaker 1: it's fair reading of this chain that what I described
Speaker 1: earlier is what happened. Backner, knowing what you know now, Groff,
Speaker 1: knowing what I know now? Yes, redacted question, Miss Groff.
Speaker 1: This email is from twenty eleven. You previously testified that
Speaker 1: after mister Epstein was incarcerated, you stopped booking massages for him.
Speaker 1: Answer that's correct. Question. He was incarcerated from two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight to two thousand and nine. Correct answer correct question.
Speaker 1: So wouldn't this suggest that you continued to book massages
Speaker 1: forum answer? I would not have known that this was
Speaker 1: a massage. I don't know. You're assuming that I would
Speaker 1: think that this was a massage, but I did not
Speaker 1: think of it as a massage. I said. I probably
Speaker 1: didn't put that much thought into it. I was super busy.
Speaker 1: I just needed to know if you would be able
Speaker 1: to meet with this person. He said yes, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure my day just moved on. Question Well, surely he
Speaker 1: instructed you to reach out to this person, though, because
Speaker 1: you're the first one in the email. You email and
Speaker 1: you say he called you last night at ten thirty.
Speaker 1: Answer yes. Question, So when he instructed you, wouldn't you
Speaker 1: have said, hey, miss Groff, can you schedule this person
Speaker 1: for a massage? Backner, I'm sorry to interrupt. If we
Speaker 1: knew the redacted name, maybe that could help her know
Speaker 1: what this is about. But right now it's a redacted name.
Speaker 1: You're asking her to speculate as to what this possibility
Speaker 1: could mean. It's kind of not fair, miss Groff. I
Speaker 1: was just making an appointment for him. As requested. He
Speaker 1: wanted to know if this person could come over at
Speaker 1: three or seven, and as directed by him, I asked
Speaker 1: if this person could come over at three or seven redacted.
Speaker 1: So your testimony today is that, as far as you know,
Speaker 1: this was not the book of massage, and you stand
Speaker 1: by your earlier statement that mister Epstein was incarcerated, you
Speaker 1: no longer book massages for him, Miss Groff. That is correct,
Speaker 1: except for maybe the one time in Palm Beach at
Speaker 1: the medical spa redacted after he was incarcerated. Did you
Speaker 1: coordinate for massages, Miss Groff, no question. I would like
Speaker 1: to introduce this minority Exhibit D. This email exchange between
Speaker 1: you and mister Epstein from September nineteenth, twenty eleven. Debates
Speaker 1: number is EFTA zero one eight five five zero six' nine.
Speaker 1: Question in the first email you write to Mister epstein
Speaker 1: that quote redacted would like to pick up money for
Speaker 1: time spent on the. Island how much SHOULD i tell
Speaker 1: redacted to give? Her Mister epstein then, responds quote six,
Speaker 1: hundred and you've mentioned redacted. Before can you remind me
Speaker 1: what her role? Was? Answer she was in the accounting.
Speaker 1: Department question and the island refers To Little Saint. James correct.
Speaker 1: Answer correct. Question what was your understanding of why this
Speaker 1: person was being paid for the time they spent on the? Island? ANSWER,
Speaker 1: i unfortunately don't know who this person. IS i don't
Speaker 1: recall this, email AND i don't know what this person was.
Speaker 1: Doing he had architects and decorators and artists go to his.
Speaker 1: Island he was constantly trying to redecorate and do things.
Speaker 1: THERE i don't know what this. Was four. Question the
Speaker 1: email doesn't say for any kind of specific, task. Right
Speaker 1: it doesn't say for, redecorating it doesn't say for. Building
Speaker 1: it says for time spent on the. Island and the
Speaker 1: amount is six. Hundred correct. Answer correct. Question when Mister
Speaker 1: epstein would pay girls and women for massages where he
Speaker 1: sexually abused, them he would typically pay them two or
Speaker 1: three hundred correct, answer correct. Question so isn't it a
Speaker 1: fair reading of this? Email the six hundred is likely
Speaker 1: for two instances where Mister epstein received a massage and
Speaker 1: sexually abused a girl or a young. Woman. Answer at the,
Speaker 1: TIME i did not know that's what was. OCCURRING i
Speaker 1: never saw anything, Inappropriate so my mind was not going
Speaker 1: in the direction you're trying to take my. Mind everything
Speaker 1: to me THAT i was, DOING i feel like now
Speaker 1: looking through a dirty, lens things look. Dirty but this
Speaker 1: TIME i was unaware of anything that was going. On.
Speaker 1: Question so this was twenty, eleven, though so you weren't
Speaker 1: aware because you had been investigating or he had been
Speaker 1: investigated and, arrested he had pleaded guilty to the, charges
Speaker 1: one of which involved a, Minor he had been, incarcerated
Speaker 1: he had been on house. Arrest there was a lot
Speaker 1: of stories in the news about. Him so actually you
Speaker 1: did have information about who this man was and what
Speaker 1: he had. Done admittedly that was not, Complete but wouldn't
Speaker 1: that have informed you of how to understand this? Email?
Speaker 1: Answer at the, TIME i was still being told that
Speaker 1: he had been blackmailed and that this sentence was for
Speaker 1: soliciting a. PROSTITUTE i didn't know that these other things
Speaker 1: were occurring at the, time and he lied to, Me
Speaker 1: he manipulated, me and he had me as. Well it
Speaker 1: seems to me everyone else believing that this was that
Speaker 1: things out there were being said were wrong and just. False,
Speaker 1: question and what about looking back at it, now do
Speaker 1: you think that it was a fair reading of the?
Speaker 1: Email is that a girl or young woman who was
Speaker 1: on the island was asking to be paid for instances
Speaker 1: where she was sexually. Abused answer in hindsight and being
Speaker 1: an as to see the big picture in his emails
Speaker 1: and what everybody is saying, Now, yeah it's terrible. Question,
Speaker 1: okay and this is also from twenty, eleven so also
Speaker 1: for his. Incarceration so then your previous statement about how
Speaker 1: he didn't help pay girls who had massaged them after
Speaker 1: his incarceration was. Incorrect Mister whitcomb, objection that's not what she.
Speaker 1: Said you're a mischaracterizing her. Testimony. Redacted the rules of
Speaker 1: evidence do not apply. Here please answer the, question Mister. Whitcomb,
Speaker 1: yeah but the rules of fairness apply. Redacted could you
Speaker 1: please answer the? Question witcomb object to the form of
Speaker 1: the question. Too it's, incoherent Mister, backner. Misredacted could you
Speaker 1: just add the word? KNOWINGLY i mean her testimony earlier
Speaker 1: was that she didn't knowingly do that? Redacted, okay, great
Speaker 1: let's clarify, that would you now, say looking at the
Speaker 1: email as we discussed, it what you have agreed is
Speaker 1: a fair characterization of. It it appears that after he was,
Speaker 1: incarcerated you, did in fact facility payment for a. Massage.
Speaker 1: Backner that's also not what she. Said she, said it's
Speaker 1: a fair reading to say it could have. Happened it's
Speaker 1: not what she knows happened or did. Happen whitcomb asking
Speaker 1: for speculation as, Well, backner it's. Redacted, Question so you
Speaker 1: stand by your previous testimony that you did not do
Speaker 1: that after he was, Incarcerated Miss, groff that's. CORRECT i
Speaker 1: did not know what this was. FOR i don't recall the.
Speaker 1: EMAIL i don't, Know. Backner, again the subject line is,
Speaker 1: redacted the name is. Redacted. Question we, understand Mister. Backner thank.
Speaker 1: You you also previously testified that you had no role
Speaker 1: in sponsorship or visa. Sponsorship is that? Correct? Graff, WELL
Speaker 1: i correct. QUESTION i would like to introduce as minority EXHIBIT.
Speaker 1: E this email exchange between you Mister Epstein arta bescardis
Speaker 1: From april, fifth twenty. Nineteen The bates number IS efta
Speaker 1: zero zero four nine three one one two. Question starting
Speaker 1: from the bottom of the first, page you email Mister
Speaker 1: epstein the details of a physical therapy program At Lutheran
Speaker 1: hospital In brooklyn and, say, quote would this? Work can
Speaker 1: she get her visa and go To New york By april?
Speaker 1: Fifteenth then you email the course information to Mister abiscardis
Speaker 1: and he, responds, Quote i'm actually cuni's. Attorney i'll contact them,
Speaker 1: directly need to see if they give. Visas why were
Speaker 1: you emailing this information about this program to Mister epstein
Speaker 1: and asking about whether an individual could get her visa
Speaker 1: and get To New york by a specific? Date, GROTH
Speaker 1: i don't recall this. Email i'm sure that Mister epstein
Speaker 1: asked me to investigate this. Course there's no reason THAT
Speaker 1: I why else WOULD i have investigated this. COURSE i
Speaker 1: don't know who this person. Is question did you have
Speaker 1: a role in researching potential programs for girls or women
Speaker 1: connected to Mister epstein that they could then use to secure? Visas? Answer,
Speaker 1: no this IS i was not. Asked it looks LIKE
Speaker 1: i was asked to investigate a course as, directed but
Speaker 1: THIS i did not speak To. ARTA i merely would
Speaker 1: put Mister epstein in touch with him as a phone
Speaker 1: call as somebody that he wanted to speak. With BUT
Speaker 1: i don't know WHY i was asked to go look
Speaker 1: at the. Course Question, okay even though you explicitly referenced
Speaker 1: a visa in your email to Mister. Epstein answer it
Speaker 1: was probably something THAT i was asked by Mister epstein
Speaker 1: if she could get her. VISA i don't. KNOW i
Speaker 1: don't recall this. Question just a few quick questions about
Speaker 1: mister biscardis what was your understanding of his role at Cun.
Speaker 1: Why answer he was a. Professor question to your, knowledge
Speaker 1: did he ever use his position AT cuny to have
Speaker 1: women affiliated with Mister epstein admitted into any program at that?
Speaker 1: Institution ANSWER i don't. Know question to your, knowledge did
Speaker 1: he ever use his position at cun why to secure
Speaker 1: visas for any woman affiliated with Mister? Epstein? ANSWER i don't.
Speaker 1: Know question did you ever get his contact information to
Speaker 1: anyone in Mister epstein's? Network ANSWER i don't. Know question
Speaker 1: do you have any memory of his contact To Leon
Speaker 1: black or anyone who worked For Leon? Black? ANSWER i don't.
Speaker 1: Know all, Right, Zlox we're gonna wrap up right here
Speaker 1: and in the next, episode dealing with the, topic we're
Speaker 1: gonna pick up where we left. Off all the information
Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the description.
Speaker 1: Box what's, up, everyone and welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: The Epstein. Chronicles in this, episode we're going to get
Speaker 1: right back to The Leslie groff transcript from her meeting With. Congress,
Speaker 1: Question i'd like to ask you a few more questions
Speaker 1: about your work for Mister ebstein booking. Travel as part
Speaker 1: of your employment for Mister, ebstein you arranged domestic and
Speaker 1: international travel for girls and young. Women correct answer for, women,
Speaker 1: yes question and not for. Girls, ANSWER i don't BELIEVE
Speaker 1: i ever made any. Travel when you say, girls what
Speaker 1: do you mean? Minors? Question, yes individuals women under the
Speaker 1: age of, eighteen so girls answer. No. Question during the
Speaker 1: period that you worked for Mister, epstein approximately how many
Speaker 1: young women do you think that you arranged travel, for including, flights,
Speaker 1: hotels and any other kind of. Travel answer it's a difficult.
Speaker 1: Question over the course of my entire time with, THEM
Speaker 1: i really don't. Know. Question if you had to, estimate
Speaker 1: would it be, dozens, hundreds? Thousands answer not? Thousands, no
Speaker 1: and some people would Be it was usually his traveling
Speaker 1: assistants that would be going to see. Them but it's
Speaker 1: very difficult for me to try to come up with the.
Speaker 1: Number it was not, thousands it was not. HUNDREDS i don't, know,
Speaker 1: fifty seventy, FIFTY i don't, know Mister, backner don't speculate
Speaker 1: if you don't know the answers you don't, Know Miss, Groff,
Speaker 1: YEAH i don't. Know question so you talked about his
Speaker 1: travel assistance before when you were booking this, travel would
Speaker 1: you work with them to do? It? Answer sometimes IF
Speaker 1: i was directed to By epstein to book a ticket
Speaker 1: AND i needed to speak with, them but usually it
Speaker 1: was whatever he. Wanted Question and who would that have
Speaker 1: been on his staff that you would have booked travel
Speaker 1: with or work with the book? Travel answer JUST Mx. Centurion,
Speaker 1: question oh? Understood what was your understanding of the purpose
Speaker 1: of this? Travel answer for the traveling assistance to help
Speaker 1: him with his, travel to be there to do, chores
Speaker 1: to make sure that the staff wherever he was going
Speaker 1: had things they would go grocery, shopping things of that. Nature.
Speaker 1: QUESTION i think we may be, miscommunicating So i'll try
Speaker 1: to be more. Clear when you book travel on behalf
Speaker 1: of Mister epstein for women affiliated with. Him did you
Speaker 1: work with people on his staff to do? That answer no, question. Okay,
Speaker 1: question but did you work with external people like? Misredacted answer,
Speaker 1: yes question. Okay and this travel was typically for his,
Speaker 1: staff but also potentially other women as. Well correct, answer correct, question,
Speaker 1: okay for those other, women not staff members who are
Speaker 1: traveling with, Them but for those other. Women what was
Speaker 1: your understanding of the typical purpose of that? Travel? ANSWER
Speaker 1: i didn't ask them why he had people. TRAVELING i don't. Know.
Speaker 1: Question were you ever aware of the purpose being for
Speaker 1: Mister epstein to engage in sexual activity with these young?
Speaker 1: Women answer no. Question were you ever aware of the
Speaker 1: purpose being for people in his network to engage with
Speaker 1: sexual activity with these young? Women answer no. Question i'd
Speaker 1: like to introduce as minority EXHIBIT f this email exchange
Speaker 1: between you and Mister. Epstein excuse, me an email exchange
Speaker 1: between you and misredacted From september, fifth twenty. Seventeen The
Speaker 1: bates number IS efta zero zero four five eight zero seven.
Speaker 1: Four although your name is redacted, Here i'll represent to,
Speaker 1: you based on an in camera review of an unredacted
Speaker 1: version of the, document that the bottom email is from.
Speaker 1: You in this exchange you raised with misredacted what you
Speaker 1: say is a quote gigantic. Issue you flagged that some
Speaker 1: flight confirmations were sent to people other than, you and
Speaker 1: you tell misredacted that Quote jeffrey was livid about. This,
Speaker 1: specifically you note that some flight confirmations were sent or
Speaker 1: redacted and another Person why was Mister epstein angry about
Speaker 1: flight confirmations being sent to? Misredacted and this other person,
Speaker 1: ANSWER i don't. KNOW i know that he is an
Speaker 1: extremely private person and didn't like other people knowing what
Speaker 1: he was didn't want people to know about his. Schedule
Speaker 1: question is this something that you remember in being angry
Speaker 1: about in other instances flight confirmations being sent to people
Speaker 1: other than? You? Answer and other. INSTANCES i believe this
Speaker 1: was the time when something was happening on Amex centurion's,
Speaker 1: end and emails were going to everybody that was in their,
Speaker 1: database and he did not want everyone that was in
Speaker 1: the database receiving flight. Confirmations, question emails were going to
Speaker 1: everyone in Amex centurion's. Database answer the database that would
Speaker 1: be for us For? Epstein? Question got? It and who
Speaker 1: would have been included in that? Database? Answer it would
Speaker 1: be anyone who was authorized to book. TRAVEL i would
Speaker 1: believe so any of the traveling assistants probably question and you,
Speaker 1: too right answer and me uh, huh question anyone? Else Answer,
Speaker 1: EPSTEIN i don't know who else it might have. Been
Speaker 1: question you also write that quote on petrified that all
Speaker 1: these tickets we have coming up this week From russia
Speaker 1: To paris will somehow resurface and get email to someone
Speaker 1: in our list of emails who was flying From russia To. Paris,
Speaker 1: ANSWER i don't. Recall question were you concerned that information
Speaker 1: about their flights would quote? Resurface? Answer it wasn't me
Speaker 1: that was. CONCERNED i didn't want to hear the wrath
Speaker 1: and get in trouble from Mister epstein about inadvertently having
Speaker 1: confirmations be sent to people that were not on our.
Speaker 1: List QUESTION i understand you said he's a private. Person
Speaker 1: was there any other reason he might not want these
Speaker 1: flight confirmations to go on that? List answer not THAT
Speaker 1: i know. Of no. Question and to, clarify you understand
Speaker 1: your reference here to a list of emails being THAT
Speaker 1: Mx centurion database that we just spoke. About answer, correct,
Speaker 1: question so we know that Mister epstein was In paris
Speaker 1: at this point and had dinner reservations or excuse, me
Speaker 1: dinner plans On september, fifth twenty, seventeen which is the
Speaker 1: date of this. Email we also know that multiple women
Speaker 1: were scheduled to arrive In paris that. Week were these
Speaker 1: women traveling To paris for the purpose of engaging in
Speaker 1: sexual activity with Mister? Epstein? ANSWER i don't. Know question
Speaker 1: were you ever aware of women who were booking travel
Speaker 1: for being manipulated or course to? Travel? Answer, no, Question Miss.
Speaker 1: Groff so you previously testify that the names in the
Speaker 1: database would have been the traveling assistance and other members
Speaker 1: of Mister epstein's. Staff is that correct? Answer that's WHAT i. Believe?
Speaker 1: Question and you also previously testified that those women's jobs
Speaker 1: was to travel with Mister epstein and run his errands
Speaker 1: and arrange his schedule while he was. Traveling is that correct? Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: Question so why would it then have been a problem
Speaker 1: for those women to know about people who might have
Speaker 1: been traveling to meet him while he was traveling To? Paris?
Speaker 1: ANSWER i don't know why he would think it's a.
Speaker 1: PROBLEM i think he was a control, freak and just
Speaker 1: like he didn't it was like when he was. Out
Speaker 1: it felt out of. Control it was out of his.
Speaker 1: Control he wanted it to. Stop question, Okay so we
Speaker 1: have some questions about the payments from Mister epstein that
Speaker 1: were DISCUSSED i think a little bit in the previous.
Speaker 1: Hour so as, discussed we have records of some large
Speaker 1: cash transfers From Southern financial to. You So Southern financial
Speaker 1: was one of Mister epstein's. Entities is that? Correct? Answer?
Speaker 1: Yes question. Okay and are you aware of a transfer
Speaker 1: From Southern financial to you On february, first twenty, sixteen
Speaker 1: of one hundred thousand? Dollars? Answer, oh that was a. Loane,
Speaker 1: yes question. Okay so that. One there's another one of
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand On january, third twenty. Seventeen answer correct.
Speaker 1: Question AND i believe you said that there was one
Speaker 1: in twenty. Eighteen what was the date of that? One?
Speaker 1: Answer probably around the same date as the. OTHERS i
Speaker 1: don't know. Exactly question, Okay so early twenty. Eighteen answer probably,
Speaker 1: yes at the beginning of the. Year that would make.
Speaker 1: Sense question of one hundred thousand answer correct question. Okay
Speaker 1: and then there's a transfer of one hundred and ten
Speaker 1: thousand From southern financial to you On december, nineteenth twenty.
Speaker 1: Eighteen answer correct question, Okay and so it's correct based
Speaker 1: on your previous testimony that these were loans that were
Speaker 1: made to you as part of your compensation once your
Speaker 1: compensation system changed to a salary plus. Loan answer correct question.
Speaker 1: Okay were there any other such loans made to you
Speaker 1: by Mister epstein or his? Entities answer no? Question. Okay
Speaker 1: did you receive any gifts from Mister epstein or any
Speaker 1: of his entities Between december, nineteenth twenty eighteen and his?
Speaker 1: Death answer no, question, okay answer not THAT i. Recall
Speaker 1: question and of those so Four ndred ten. Thousand we
Speaker 1: know that some were loans that were forgiven at the
Speaker 1: time of his. Death what was the outstanding balance of
Speaker 1: the loans that was forgiven at the time of his?
Speaker 1: Death ANSWER i guess the foreigner in ten? Thousand question,
Speaker 1: Okay so you didn't pay back any of those loans
Speaker 1: at any point before his death or? After answer, Correct Mister.
Speaker 1: Buckner CAN i have a moment with, Her Miss, GROFF
Speaker 1: i was writing interest loans interest checks whenever they were.
Speaker 1: DUE i don't. Know, Questions so you paid the interest
Speaker 1: but not the. Principal answer, yeah, EXACTLY i paid the
Speaker 1: interest from the. Start question, okay did you ever help
Speaker 1: facilitate any transfers money transfers to or from Mister epstein
Speaker 1: or any of his? Entities answer no, question. Okay Sarah
Speaker 1: kellen told investigators that In december twenty, eighteen you emailed
Speaker 1: her to meet with Mister epstein and he late later
Speaker 1: gave her two hundred and fifty. Thousand were you aware
Speaker 1: of that payment at the? Time ANSWER i was. Not
Speaker 1: no question. Okay did you later become aware of that
Speaker 1: payment at any time before Mister epstein's? Death answer no, question.
Speaker 1: Okay and then we have some questions about your roles
Speaker 1: in Mister epstein's various. Trusts so you were named as
Speaker 1: the beneficiary of the twenty Thirteen Butterfly trust on a
Speaker 1: document Dated december thirty, first twenty. Thirteen can you explain
Speaker 1: what The Butterfly trust? Is? Answer, NO i. CANNOT i
Speaker 1: didn't know about The Butterfly. Trust answer you didn't know
Speaker 1: of its? Existence answer correct question until? When answer until
Speaker 1: after his death and all this came out and we
Speaker 1: were preparing to meet with. You question, Okay so at
Speaker 1: no point until your preparation for this. Interview did you
Speaker 1: know either of the existence of The Butterfly trust or
Speaker 1: the fact that you were named as a? Beneficiary answer
Speaker 1: that is. Correct Question, okay were you did you know
Speaker 1: that you were named as a beneficiary of any other
Speaker 1: of Mister epstein's? Trusts answer no, Question, okay they go
Speaker 1: off the. Record now they're back. On Question is it
Speaker 1: your understanding at this, point now that you were aware
Speaker 1: of the trust and your position as a, beneficiary that
Speaker 1: you are eligible to receive money from that? Trust? ANSWER
Speaker 1: i don't Believe i'm in the. Trust after we were
Speaker 1: prepping for, THIS i BELIEVE i was taken out of that.
Speaker 1: Trust question do you know when that? Occurred? ANSWER i
Speaker 1: believe it occurred when he was in. Jail he took
Speaker 1: me out of his. Trust question after his arrest in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen answer correct. Question. Okay and, separately you were
Speaker 1: named as a trustee of the twenty Seventeen Caterpillar trust
Speaker 1: on a document Dated january, first twenty. Seventeen so were
Speaker 1: you aware at that time that you had been named
Speaker 1: as a trust d on the other? Trust? Answer after
Speaker 1: prepping this, TESTIMONY i remember it. Now, question but you
Speaker 1: were not you were aware at that. Time ANSWER i
Speaker 1: must have been aware at the time because my signature
Speaker 1: is on the. Paperwork question, okay and what were you
Speaker 1: or are your responsibilities as a? Trustee ANSWER i don't
Speaker 1: THINK i had any responsibilities question at any? Point answer.
Speaker 1: Correct question, Okay and do you stand to benefit financially
Speaker 1: from your role as a? Trustee answer, no. No question
Speaker 1: is it you're understanding that The Caterpillar trust is still in?
Speaker 1: Existence ANSWER i don't. KNOW i don't think, SO i don't.
Speaker 1: Know Question, okay you don't. Know ANSWER i don't. Know
Speaker 1: question got? It thank? You all, right, folks we're gonna
Speaker 1: wrap up right, here and in the next episode dealing
Speaker 1: with the, topic we're gonna pick up where we left.
Speaker 1: Off all the information that goes with this episode can
Speaker 1: be found in the description. Box