WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.399 --> 00:00:13.560 Special Operations Cobert oh Spionage The Team House with your 2 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:17.760 hosts Jack Murphy and David Park. 3 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:24.800 Hey, guys, welcome to episode three hundred and sixty two 4 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:30.359 of the podcast. Ah sorry, I just had to mute something. 5 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:32.759 Episode three hundred and sixty two of The Team House. 6 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:35.079 I'm Jack here with Dave and our guest on tonight's 7 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:39.520 show is nic O'Kelly. Nick served in Special Forces and 8 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:43.799 first Group in Okinawa, deployed to the Philippines, went to 9 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:49.640 flight school, served in third Combat Aviation Brigade, deployed Afghanistan, 10 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:53.880 went and assessed for one sixtieth Special Operations Aviation. You 11 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:57.520 were a Blackhawk guy, didn't direct apployment, and then got 12 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:01.320 medically retired and now run a financial planning firm. And 13 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:05.280 you have a book called Stigma coming out October twenty first. 14 00:01:05.799 --> 00:01:10.519 So that's the thumbnail sketch. Nailed it, Yeah, nailed it. 15 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:13.480 Thanks for coming in. Yeah, yeah, I know, Thanks for having. 16 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:15.280 Me, Thanks for coming up to It's always it's always 17 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:16.680 fun to have people in the studio. 18 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:19.040 I agree, it's a lot better environment, it's a lot 19 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:20.439 more fun, Yeah for sure. 20 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:24.000 So yeah, Nick, I mean the question we typically ask 21 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:26.799 our guests. First, is their origin story, if you want 22 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:28.640 to tell us a little bit about kind of like 23 00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:31.159 your upbringing and how that took you towards the military. 24 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:35.680 Yeah, So grew up in western Washington, Seattle area. Ish 25 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:39.319 pretty traditional family, right, like nothing crazy. I didn't have 26 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:44.120 like a traumatic childhood or anything. Family is six so, 27 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:48.920 four siblings living in the suburbs of Seattle. And then 28 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.439 I did the traditional like went to college because that 29 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:55.760 was the right thing to do route, but found myself 30 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.359 drinking my way out of college very quickly after about 31 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:01.799 a year. You have a good time. Yeah, So I 32 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:03.840 like got the freedom out of high school and just 33 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:06.760 went hard in college, and like it was one of 34 00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:08.879 those things where like I wouldn't go to class for 35 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:10.759 a week and then I'm like, eh, I don't think 36 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:12.680 it's worth going now. I think I missed too much. 37 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:15.159 So long story short, I dropped out of college after 38 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:17.479 a year and a half, went back home, worked for 39 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:20.120 my dad for a year. He owned like a car magazine, 40 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:24.439 and really was just partying and doing nothing with my life. 41 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:29.479 So fortunately in college I did RTC, so I had 42 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:32.560 like some exposure to the army and kind of what 43 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:35.159 it was, so That's what led me to be like, okay, 44 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:37.919 I should probably do something. Let's look at the military. 45 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:44.000 I initially went to the Marines and they told me, basically, 46 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:46.479 we can't guarantee your job, can't guarantee your rems. So 47 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:49.319 if you enlist, that's fine, but we don't you don't 48 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:50.560 know what you're gonna do. So I was like, no, 49 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:52.680 I don't want to do that. So went over to 50 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:56.520 the Army recruiter and he showed me the SF recruiting 51 00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:59.960 video and I was like, hell, yeah, that's those bad 52 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:02.520 thing I've ever seen. Yeah, so let's go what do 53 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:05.199 I need to do? And yeah, signed the dott A 54 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:07.759 Line eighteen X ray and then shipped off for Basic 55 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:09.639 in July twenty ten. 56 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:12.680 So did you know anything about Special Forces or special 57 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:13.879 operations at all prior to that? 58 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:16.319 Not really, I mean other than like the movies, Yeah, 59 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.280 you know, nothing, Like I wasn't the kid that was 60 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.080 like I want to go do this, you know. I 61 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:23.240 didn't have that like I want to go be a 62 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:24.960 groom Bret or go be a Navy seal. Now. I 63 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.719 just was like that sounds really cool, sounds really hard, 64 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:28.479 so let's try it. 65 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:31.319 I think I think that for like athletic guys, it's 66 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:35.000 like they they you know, therefore shows the PJ or CCT, 67 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:38.240 the Navy shows the seals, the Army shows the ranger. 68 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:39.719 Of stuff, and they know that a lot of those 69 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:40.719 guys are going to wash out. 70 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:44.240 Yeah, like they're going to go you know, be the 71 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:46.599 you know the deck cans, you know. Yeah, most is 72 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:51.159 made sort of the you know the gun seconds, yeah, 73 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:51.400 you know. 74 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:53.639 But yeah, that's that's great. 75 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:56.240 So what did you did you do any training prior 76 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:59.039 to going to s FAS or prior to going to 77 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:00.000 basic and everything. 78 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:04.319 Yeah, so I was because of RTC. I knew kind 79 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:06.800 of the standards, right, like the PT tests and stuff, 80 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:10.080 So I knew what I needed to work on. So 81 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:12.800 I was already a pretty good runner. That obviously goes 82 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:16.000 so far when you're enlist. So I had the running 83 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:18.879 background and that was the biggest thing that I think 84 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.879 like made me succeed and do well throughout the whole 85 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:26.519 entire pipeline was just the running background. But yeah, so training, 86 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:29.040 but not like I didn't follow like a specific program. 87 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:31.439 It was more just like all right, let's go sweat 88 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:34.360 my ass off every day and yeah, yeah, getting get 89 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:34.959 in good shape. 90 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:37.639 Yeah, it's it's always interesting me too, because like there's 91 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:41.759 such a culture and we've had like do on you know, 92 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:45.680 like there's such a culture around you know, kids like 93 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:50.680 psyching themselves up for uh, for whatever selection is they're 94 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:53.720 going to, and then other guys who are just like Okay, 95 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.199 I'll I'm mena, let's try this, and they just do it. Yeah, 96 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:01.360 you know, And you know, I think obviously fitness in 97 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:04.079 shape and condition are a part of it, but there's 98 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:07.199 also just like the intent of I'm. 99 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:09.560 Just going to do this. Yeah. And I also I 100 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:12.240 didn't mention, but during my childhood, like my mom was, 101 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.000 she was hard, like she was a drill sergeant at home. 102 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:17.160 Basically I was the kid if I got like a 103 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.720 B plus, it was like what happened? Would you do wrong? 104 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:22.319 Not like good John? 105 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:22.680 You know. 106 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.519 So I always had those high standards that were just 107 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:28.600 ingrained with me, and I think that like helped a 108 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:29.959 lot throughout the whole thing. 109 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.079 So twenty ten, you're coming into the military. Tell us 110 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:36.720 a little bit about like the eighteen X ray experience. 111 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.160 Oh yeah, all right, so it had I will say 112 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:42.680 like it had more from like the early two thousand 113 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:45.079 days because I heard horror stories from back then where 114 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.720 they just miserable, right, And I think by now, by 115 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:51.600 the time I was going through, there were enough cadre 116 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:54.199 that were eighteen X rays that they had a little 117 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:58.000 more sympathy. Right. Yeah, it wasn't like it wasn't like 118 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:00.240 what are we doing with this eighteen xt reprader? Right? 119 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:02.519 They were like, Okay, now I'm an atwen X ray. 120 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:05.000 It's that kind of you know, mutual respect a little bit. 121 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:09.120 But I will say like X rays have such a 122 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:13.279 leg up compared to somebody just coming from the regular 123 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:15.959 Army as far as like selection, right, because you go 124 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:18.480 to Sopsey right before, so you have three weeks where 125 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.800 you're basically working out twice a day, sleeping like ten 126 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:25.319 hours a day, and just eating protein and getting ready 127 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:27.160 for selection. You know, they teach you land as you 128 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:29.759 already have kind of a pre selection course built in. 129 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:34.120 Big Army doesn't get that, right, they exactly. So we 130 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:37.360 have so we show up to selection kind of already 131 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:39.399 and you hear all the G two through the pipeline 132 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.120 right through the guys that are ahead of you, So 133 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:43.360 you already kind of have an idea of like what 134 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:46.439 you need to do to be successful. So I do 135 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:49.319 think the X ray program like is good in that regard. Now, 136 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:51.600 I will say like when you get later in the 137 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:54.959 course like SUT and stuff like that, that's when being 138 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:58.480 an X ray sucks because leadership experience and stuff like 139 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.720 that was not was not something that we had ever 140 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:04.079 done before. So I was just like, how am I 141 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:06.360 supposed to tell this E six ranger? You know what 142 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:08.839 to do when I'm an EAT three you know what 143 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:11.560 I mean? With no combat, no no experience or anything. 144 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:14.040 So so it's good and bad. I guess what was 145 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.240 that like? Working with you know, a bunch of salty 146 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:19.680 characters from the Big Army that come in there. There 147 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:22.319 was there was hidden miss Some of them were really cool, 148 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:24.079 like some of them were really down to earth. And 149 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:26.439 I also think it like depended on what type of 150 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:28.120 X ray you were, you know, because there were some 151 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:30.079 X rays that just kind of had it coming and 152 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.920 didn't you know they were cocky. Yeah, shouldn't have been, 153 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:34.959 you know. So I do think that played a factor. 154 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:37.920 I tried to stay humble throughout it, so I never 155 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:41.439 got too much. Yeah. Yeah, I was kind of trying 156 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:42.759 to be the great man, so I didn't get too 157 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:47.399 much ship from the hardened war vets, you know, yeah. 158 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.199 Two tens, So there there were probably quite a few 159 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:50.680 combats for sure going through that. 160 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:56.399 Yeah, for sure, yep. And what MS did you get assigned? Charlie? Okay? 161 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:59.000 So I was originally gonna be a Bravo and then 162 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.439 there was another guy going to OK and fortunately he 163 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:04.360 wanted Charlie or excuse me, he wanted Bravo and I 164 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:06.199 wanted Charlie. So we were able to do a hot 165 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:08.560 swap in the so he already knew he was going 166 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:13.759 to OK or no, good, good point. He we had 167 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:16.560 our languageurs already because language was first. Yeah, that's what 168 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:18.600 it was. So we both had Asian languages. That's what 169 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:21.360 it was. Good point. Good point, because we didn't find 170 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:24.680 out till yeah, until stage after sage. Actually, yeah, yeah, 171 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:28.040 that's that's cool. What what what is the. 172 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:30.000 Like? 173 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:31.000 What was the language? 174 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:32.519 So they give you guys like the D lab or 175 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:35.919 whatever it is, and then how long is the language 176 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:37.399 course for because it's. 177 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.879 A shorter course. It was six months when I went through, 178 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:42.639 So yeah, I did Korean. It was six months. Is 179 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:45.240 the goal like one one or yeah, Gold's one one? 180 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:48.799 Which yeah, I feel like after six months one one 181 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.600 is not hard to Yeah, there's plenty of time. I disagree. 182 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:56.159 Maybe it depends on the language. It might depend on 183 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:58.679 the person too. I was a hardhead. 184 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:04.639 So Charlie, Uh, any fun stories you want to tell 185 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:06.960 about going through the Charlie Course or Robin Sage or 186 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:08.159 anything before we move on. 187 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:12.000 So I got two stories that I'll tell, Okay. One 188 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:15.879 of them was me being a dumbass and almost getting 189 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:19.360 kicked out of the Q course. So so here I 190 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:21.559 am this. I think I was twenty two. Yeah, I 191 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:24.120 was twenty two at the time, so twenty two years old. 192 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.679 We're going through the Q course, crushing it, crushing it, 193 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:31.200 you know, as well as you can. And we were 194 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:34.159 going out on weeknights, right like, and just showing up 195 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:38.399 at five six am for no worries, right, everything's fine. 196 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:41.840 One night we go out and we were out till 197 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:43.559 like three am, and I think we had to catch 198 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.679 a five am bus for the Charlie Course, and my 199 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:49.559 alarm goes off or no, not even my alarm. I 200 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:52.519 get like my phone's just going crazy and a buddy's 201 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:54.559 calling me like, dude, where the hell are you? And 202 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.279 I literally just woke up and I'm like, shit, he's 203 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:00.399 like the buses here, like you probably have like two minutes, dude, 204 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:04.519 and so throw my stuff on real quick. Paul asked 205 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:06.720 down to the bus and I kid you not, like 206 00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:09.039 the bus doors were closing when I was running up 207 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:12.720 to it. Knocked on the door and luckily the bus 208 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:15.120 drivers of civilian, so it's not like Cadria there. But 209 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.279 I barely made it. And you know, they read like 210 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:20.080 I would have probably been kicked out of the course 211 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:23.519 or at least recycled at a minimum. So like, yeah, 212 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:29.720 the just shoe string, you know, metric for meeting the 213 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:33.159 standard out there at the Q course. You know. 214 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.039 The worst thing they I think they did for us 215 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:38.360 was when we started having night classes in language school. 216 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:42.279 Because you're in class from like one or two in 217 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.440 the afternoon to like six or seven o'clock at. 218 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:48.440 Night, and then you can go out drinking all night. 219 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:51.080 You don't have to be into one in the afternoon. Yeah. 220 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:53.600 Yeah, we were hitting it pretty hard. That's brutal. That's 221 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:55.360 like the pilot life that was. That was not a 222 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:58.480 good idea of them to do that. Yeah, yeah, that's 223 00:10:58.519 --> 00:10:59.440 why I did. 224 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:00.679 Not a lot of self selection. 225 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.720 Yeah, why why I maybe didn't do so good on 226 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:06.799 the language proficiency test. Yeah, don't let a bunch of 227 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.600 young twenty year old's hard charge and sleep in every day. 228 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:13.519 That's not not a recipe for success. And what's the second? 229 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:15.279 Oh yeah, second story? So this one was actually in 230 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.320 Robin Sage. So I met my wife at the Q course. 231 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.080 Really we could that's a funny story too. But I 232 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:24.480 met my wife at the Q course and I got 233 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:27.639 engaged before Sage and we were literally getting married the 234 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:30.720 day after I graduated the Q course. So in Sage, 235 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.600 our g chief and the locals or whatever set up 236 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.360 a scenario where we went and played poker with the locals, 237 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:42.879 and there was this young chick there that her job 238 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:45.000 was to seduce one of us, try to seduce one 239 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:47.120 of us, and of course I had to be the 240 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:50.799 freaking sacrificial lamb, and you know, she was going at 241 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:53.120 me hard, and I was just like what do I do? 242 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:55.840 Like I'm literally engaged in the real world, you know, 243 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.960 and like, but I it's you know, it's Sage. She 244 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:00.519 was supposed to play the part, and I'm just like, 245 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:03.519 how do I navigate this situation? And I ended up 246 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:06.720 kind of like lightly stiff arming, you know, enough to 247 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:10.440 be like respectful, but like be like, guys, help me 248 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:12.440 out here, Like I need some help, I need to curve. 249 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:16.759 I need somebody to step in and help out. And fortunately, 250 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:19.480 like I don't know if they just sensed that I 251 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.759 was like extremely uncomfortable with it or something, but it 252 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:25.879 did back off. But man, that could have been like 253 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:27.919 that was one of those moral dilemmas. Who was like 254 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.840 toling her garter, be like literally like leaning over my shoulder, 255 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:33.840 you know, and like putting her stuff on me. And 256 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:37.279 I'm just like, all right, I just got engaged. You 257 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:39.200 know this is not good. You went through a fun 258 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.159 Robin sage. Yeah, I mean that was one day, so 259 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.080 I mean, are you sure that was not on Liberty? Yeah? 260 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:46.720 I know. 261 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:55.360 Those story about your wife though. Can we save that 262 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:59.440 for a bonus segment for our patrion Vider? Yeah, okay, great, 263 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:00.759 try to describers. 264 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:03.000 Hey, if you're not subscribing to our patron you should 265 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:06.600 wings down the description. It's gonna be salacious, that's right. 266 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.480 I And so, by the grace of God, graduate the 267 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:15.399 Q course get married the day after yep. And now 268 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:20.279 you guys are bags and baggage going towed Japan. Yeah, 269 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.080 and my wife was in RTC at East Carolina University, 270 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:26.960 so I was marrying up she was. I was yeah 271 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:30.320 obviously at E five when I graduated, but she was 272 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:34.399 commissioning like six months after I graduated. So it's one 273 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:35.639 of those things that we were like, we gotta get 274 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:37.200 married before you're in the army, you know, just to 275 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:40.720 avoid that conflict and everything. But the other curve ball 276 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:43.320 was like there was no position for her to go 277 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:47.120 to Okinawa. She was a signal officer, So it's like, shit, 278 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.360 are we going to be like separated by you know, 279 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:54.000 worlds right when we get married for a while. Fortunately, 280 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.799 and you know how the army works, if you know somebody, 281 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:01.360 it helps. So her dad was a forward colonel at 282 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.960 West Point and he was able to literally call HRC 283 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.960 and get orders like the next day, Like we tried 284 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:10.200 all the avenues first, right and nothing just crickets. And 285 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:12.639 then literally she's like, Dad, I don't know what else 286 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:14.879 to do. Can you make a phone call next day? 287 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:17.399 Shit orders? I was like a kidding me. But the 288 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:19.320 crazy thing is like they had a slot for her 289 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:21.600 out there, like she slipt stepped in and was a 290 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:24.000 platoon leader, and it was actual like an M too slot. 291 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:27.639 So it's like, why are you guys you know whatever, bureaucracy, 292 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:34.440 but but yeah, worked, it's the military, right And how'd 293 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:38.440 you like Gokinawa? I loved it for the short period 294 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:40.519 that I was there. I mean we were honestly like, 295 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:42.879 I was probably tdy more than I was on island. 296 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:45.360 But now it was really cool. 297 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:45.720 Uh. 298 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:49.120 We I showed up to my team at a or 299 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:51.200 my company at an interesting point though, because they were 300 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:54.240 they were in Afghanistan when I got there. So I 301 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:57.679 was basically showed up with like six other X rays 302 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:01.399 and we were reard. You remember day fielding. Yeah, yeah, 303 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.960 so me and Dave showed up at the same time. Okay, 304 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:07.559 so we were weird d and then the company lost 305 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:10.240 a guy while we were literally like right when we 306 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:13.120 got there, and so when they came back, man, we 307 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.440 were just these X rays, no experience, and I think 308 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:18.960 the majority of us were X rays, if not all 309 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.799 of us, so no experience or anything, you know, very green, 310 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.039 and we were not treated well, like, we were not 311 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:28.840 accepted right away. It was very much like the we 312 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.360 got our click, you guys stayed in your lane, shut 313 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:33.600 up you know, do what you're told, which is expected 314 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:36.399 to some extent, right, but I feel like it was 315 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.759 definitely like magnified by all that, just like the twenty 316 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:43.200 eleven twelve. Yeah, so it'd been twenty twelve, Okay, yep, yeah, 317 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:46.240 so so yeah, I got in a company. I mean 318 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:49.039 they yeah, they had a pretty brutal deployment. So so 319 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:51.799 we just had a lot of I would say imposter syndrome, 320 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.840 you know, because we didn't know anything. You know, we 321 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:56.279 thought we were cool and then we got there and 322 00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:59.360 we got humbled real quick. 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Please support our show and tell 351 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.519 them we sent you Smell fresher, stay dryer and boost 352 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.519 your confidence from head to toe with Mando. 353 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:41.000 But after I would say two trips with the team, 354 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:44.799 that's when it finally started to integrate. And where were 355 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:48.319 those trips to the first one was to Nepal and 356 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:51.400 second one was Philippines, so they were those were just 357 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:54.559 chase its though, So those weren't cool. Yeah, what's said 358 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:58.279 for people who joint combined exercise training? So basically okay, 359 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:02.559 so it's basically where you're training with a another country's 360 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:05.079 military training you your training that is supposed to be. 361 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:07.880 It's not necessarily a combat the point, right exactly. 362 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.799 Yeah, it's more there's like a POI more like foreign 363 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:13.440 Internal defense exact stuff. 364 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:18.000 Was your team were they Merman or sky Kings or 365 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:20.079 you know what? What what kind of team was? We 366 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.519 were a mountain team. You were mountain to that transition 367 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:26.240 that transition to a mobility team, which I don't know 368 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.160 what that means, that just means, but you know what. 369 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.119 You know what was cool though, was at Nepal we 370 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.680 got to do every space camp because we had a 371 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:38.240 two week I think period white Space on the front 372 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:40.799 end of the trip and we were like, yeah, let's good, 373 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:44.160 do it like and got per DM and everything. You know. 374 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:50.319 It was high outsitude training and what the base camp for? Ah, 375 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:54.519 can you explain that? Yeah? So so every space camp 376 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:58.599 you you fly out of excuse me, katman do which 377 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:01.200 is like the big city in the poul and then 378 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:05.759 you fly to a town called Lukla, which is if 379 00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:07.480 you look it up on YouTube, it's actually like the 380 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.119 most dangerous airport in the world. It's insane landing there. 381 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.759 It's like a super short runway and it's slanted up 382 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:17.200 so that the aircraft have time to decelerate like before 383 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:19.279 they hit the wall, so it's it's pretty nuts if 384 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:22.200 you watch the videos. So flew into there, and I 385 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.359 think that's at around nine thousand feet. So you start 386 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:29.400 at Lucla and then it's ten days up to every 387 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:32.000 space camp you end up. I think base camp is 388 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:36.039 around eighteen thousand. So you make stops along the way 389 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.599 and you have we had two shurpas with us, so 390 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:41.359 it was two odios that did it. So it was 391 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:46.079 about twenty guys and two shurpas and it was a blast, 392 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.759 like it was. It was one of those things that 393 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:51.839 once in a lifetime opportunity to for sure, you know. 394 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:55.079 And I think the most amazing thing is the the 395 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:58.400 Nepalese people that live there, like just incredible. Man, you'll 396 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:00.880 be it. You'll be like six teen thousand feet at 397 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:04.200 like the second stop before base camp, and there's pool 398 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:07.640 tables and like full bars and like somebody carried that 399 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.039 stuff up like on their back. You know, it's just nuts. 400 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:13.640 I remember I went to the Annapurna base camp. We 401 00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:14.160 did that too. 402 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.640 Yeah, so you know that, you know that exact walk 403 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:19.599 through that valley, did it in the summer. And one 404 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:21.759 thing I'll never forget is the porters, Like you said, 405 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.119 they someone has to carry that stuff up there, and 406 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:26.400 the porters carrying the things on their back with you know, 407 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:27.559 it goes from their head. 408 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:29.599 Yeah, the band and then they're carrying on their back 409 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:31.880 the way they did a thousand years ago, I'm sure. Yeah, 410 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:34.000 but now they're on the trail playing Candy Crush on 411 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:37.960 their smartphone. I'll never forget that. No, that's a good point. 412 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.400 I literally skype my wife from like the stop before 413 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:42.599 every space camp. I was like, how's their internet up here? 414 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.640 You know, like somebody put in the infrastructure. It's pretty wild. Yeah, 415 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:47.240 it is today's world, absolutely. Yeah. 416 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:49.559 I think they use a lot of hydro electric in 417 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:52.880 some of those villages now, and they've connected the villages 418 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:54.920 with the suspension bridges the footbridge. 419 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:58.440 Yeah, that's right, which are crazy, especially when you run 420 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.440 into like their ox maybe I don't know, but you 421 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:05.319 run into like packs of like ox in or whatever 422 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:08.599 they are. I'm probably butchering that. Yeah, they'll be they'll 423 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:10.279 we'll be like on the bridge and that you see 424 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:12.519 them coming on the other side and you're like, we 425 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:15.000 have to get off this bridge. Yeah, we're about to 426 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:18.640 get you. Get me nostalgic. I love Nepole. Had a 427 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:20.680 really good time over there, really cool experience. 428 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:24.759 Did uh was there any force protection issues? Like I 429 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:29.200 remember one. Another funny thing was driving around over there. 430 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:31.559 They always wanted to put me in the front seat 431 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.240 because we want the maoists to see that we're driving 432 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:37.160 a white guy around. The reason being is that they 433 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:39.400 do care about tourism and they don't want to scare 434 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:41.599 away tourists, so they figure we'll put a white guy 435 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:43.400 in the front seat and they won't put rocks through 436 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:43.920 the windshield. 437 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:46.559 That's interesting. I never even thought about that. I don't 438 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:50.319 remember that specifically, but that you bring up the driving. 439 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:52.559 The driving over there is insane, like some of those 440 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.559 mountain rivers. Yeah, where they're doing like you got like 441 00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.920 half a wheelhir Yeah, like that's death right, Yeah, dude 442 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:02.359 out there chalking it like at the last minute. It's 443 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.839 like they just do it every days, say man, yeah, 444 00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:07.319 and so that the. 445 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.880 Presumably somewhere along this j set, you guys had actual 446 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.039 work to do. Yeah, we work with We worked with 447 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:16.200 the Nepalese Rangers. 448 00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:16.440 Yeah. 449 00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:19.559 Yeah, so's it was cool And that was my first Jason. 450 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:21.880 So it's an awesome experience. Just what was it like 451 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:25.880 working with those guys? They were the language barrier was vast, 452 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:28.599 like there was no English speaking and the unlike the 453 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.480 Philippines and stuff like that, where they're you know, pretty prominent, 454 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.839 so the language barrier is definitely there. So we had 455 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:38.519 to really interpreter a lot. But it was good. I 456 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:45.599 I definitely no matter who, no matter who, interpreter is 457 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.720 hard to say, yeah, but no, it was a it 458 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.000 was a really good experience. They were they were definitely 459 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.839 I don't want to like fastardize this, but they weren't 460 00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:58.599 as competent as I would have expected. I guess for 461 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:03.079 like a special operation, right, I'd say it was. But 462 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:05.799 at the same time that was good for us, especially 463 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.559 on a first jasion, because it allowed us to really 464 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.880 like learn how to teach right and really learn how 465 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:14.759 to be that SF guy instead of working with a 466 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:19.839 more competent right exactly where it's almost like here peer 467 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:21.559 to peer, you know. So it allowed us to be 468 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:25.759 to get into that role. Really, anything else you want 469 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.200 to tell us about Nepal, I think that's it. 470 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.920 What about the PI, So the p I that first trip, 471 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:35.640 I'm trying to remember the first trip. 472 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:40.519 Nothing significant happened. We worked with the rangers actually on 473 00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:45.720 that trip, Tonge Scout Rangers. They were awesome, man, the 474 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:50.279 Filipino Army. They were like our little brothers there. Amazing. Yeah, 475 00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:52.880 and they liked the NBA like no one else's business. 476 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.480 It is bizarre. But now that trip was really good. 477 00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.799 We kind of had a that was kind of a 478 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:02.680 cush trip to some extent, like we stayed in hotel 479 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.680 that no. Our OEFP was mexcitse Yeah, so the sixth 480 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:12.480 month was excite, but that one was actually I don't 481 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:16.799 even remember the location, to be honest, but no, that 482 00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:19.039 one was good. Actually, I do have one story from 483 00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:22.519 that that I can remember. So I'm an eighteen Charlie 484 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.920 and I'm teaching time fuse and we're just doing like 485 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:29.279 single blocks of C four with time fuse hooked up 486 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:31.480 to it. I don't remember whatever, two minute time fuse, 487 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:34.480 three minute time fee something. And we had like six 488 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.599 blocks laid out like spread up, spread apart in this 489 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.799 open field, right and we get our safe distance and 490 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:44.000 we put off the time fuse and we go back 491 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.400 to the safe distance and everything's going fine for the 492 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.079 first four blocks, so it's like five four three two 493 00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.359 one bang, you know, We're all good. And then the 494 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.319 fifth block, nothing happens, and I'm like, shit, what is happening? 495 00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:59.920 And at the same time, we see like a lit 496 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.720 old brush fire on the side. So it was like 497 00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:05.880 an open field with like big brush on the side 498 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:07.839 of it. So we see a brush fire starting on 499 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:10.559 the side and we still have two live blocks, so 500 00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:13.559 we can't do anything right, and this fire starts spreading 501 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:17.799 like pretty pretty rapidly, and I'm like shit, like this 502 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.119 is you know, this is my second trip as a Charlie. 503 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.799 I'm just like, oh God, like what do we do? 504 00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:23.559 I wanted to go out there, but I can't because 505 00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:28.720 there's live C four out there. So the six block 506 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.720 actually went off. So the six block went off, so 507 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.039 now there's a fifth block that's still just out there, 508 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.960 and I was like, all right. I talked to my 509 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:38.880 team start and I'm like, dude, we got to do 510 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:40.839 something like this. This is about to burn down the 511 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:44.039 jungle in the Philippines. So we gave it a couple 512 00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.039 of minutes I think it was like three minutes or something, 513 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:49.799 which felt like an eternity. And then at that three 514 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:52.200 minute mark, me and him went down there, kind of 515 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.319 got like a distance look, you know, very like very 516 00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:59.440 cautiously approaching it. But we saw that the time fuse 517 00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:03.880 had gotten cut from that fourth charge, so it projected 518 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.400 and cut that fourth time fuse before it could have 519 00:26:06.519 --> 00:26:09.960 hit the C four. So went out there, cut the 520 00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:12.200 time fuse really close to the sea four grabbed, you know, 521 00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:16.039 obviously the block was fine, and then literally like thirty 522 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:20.160 or forty Philippine scout rangers and us rushed down and 523 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:23.039 just start taking pig branches and throwing down and trying 524 00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:24.960 to get tack this fire out. And it was a 525 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.119 good probably fifteen minute process. That's next time, have them 526 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:32.319 pie into a ring made, right, Yeah, right, right? I know, 527 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:36.640 so lessons learned? Right? And how I want to ask 528 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:38.440 you a question because you know, you get this trip 529 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:38.960 to an Apoli. 530 00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:42.039 Did this trip to the Philippines while the GI Watt 531 00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.160 is still you know, active or Afghanistan. 532 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:49.799 Particularly, How did you like, was there any sort of 533 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:53.839 stigma about that? How did you feel about that? 534 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:54.079 Yeah? 535 00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:56.839 Good question, There was for sure, especially when I buddies 536 00:26:57.799 --> 00:26:59.599 who went to fifth group and third group and were 537 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:02.960 already deployed, you know, And I'm just like man like. 538 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:05.559 I don't get me wrong, I enjoyed everything I did 539 00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.759 in OKI, and I loved it. But we definitely, or 540 00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:11.680 at least I felt that one one had that, like 541 00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:14.759 you know, the party group and the you guys don't 542 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:16.960 do real stuff group, you know, because we were doing 543 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:20.599 jasits and so yes, absolutely, I definitely felt that. 544 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:24.839 And for you personally, even though you were having a 545 00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:26.519 great time and you were doing you were doing the 546 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:27.160 SF job. 547 00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:31.119 Sure, did you feel like you were missing out? Yes? 548 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:36.119 Yeah I did for sure. And because you do all 549 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:37.960 this training right right, I'm just like ready to go 550 00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:40.359 and you wanted want to use it, Yeah, you want 551 00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:43.920 to do the job. So yeah I did, especially because 552 00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:47.359 we our company just deployed Afghanistan. We just missed it, 553 00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.359 you know. So it's like and OKI in one one 554 00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:52.920 you don't It's not like a normal rotation like other 555 00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:55.359 groups where you're you know, in a year or a 556 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:57.000 year and a half, you're going to go. So it 557 00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:00.680 was like, damn, just kind of just miss yeah, like 558 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.759 a couple of years or whatever. So yeah, for sure, 559 00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:07.440 I definitely felt that tell us about the second pump 560 00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:11.319 to the Philippines then, Yeah, So the second one was 561 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:15.880 a it was a we were working with the law 562 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:19.920 enforcement there, so the Filipino DA oh okay, yeah, so 563 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:25.039 it wasn't. It wasn't necessarily military so is that the 564 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.400 police force special action for so they were involved, but 565 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.279 the our primary was the DA. It was the p 566 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:36.000 d A okay, yeah, p DA DA or something. So 567 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:39.039 we actually worked at their schoolhouse and we but it 568 00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:42.119 it was treated pretty much like a normal Jason, Like 569 00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:45.119 we did the same shooting pois and demo pois and 570 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.240 medical pois. So it wasn't it wasn't too out of 571 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:51.799 the ordinary other than who we were working with. But 572 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:55.680 that was a I mean, I don't remember anything dramatic 573 00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:57.880 or crazy happening in that one, to be honest. It 574 00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:00.319 was just it was a good trip, though, I do that. 575 00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.759 And so when did the ideas start to occur to 576 00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:07.400 you that you were interested in putting in your flight packet. 577 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:12.440 Yeah, good question. So when my so OEFP was our 578 00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:15.440 we did a six month rotation to the Philippines after 579 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.319 all of those Philippines trips, so I spent a lot 580 00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:20.400 of time there, and my son was actually born right 581 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:24.240 before that trip, so I literally like said good luck 582 00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:26.880 and I'm out. And it was like, I think three 583 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:29.200 weeks after he was born, I was off to the Philippines. 584 00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:35.480 So the nextus of it, and I didn't mention this before, 585 00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:38.759 was I looked into a program called high school to 586 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:41.799 flight school before I even went eighteen X ray And 587 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.440 that's essentially where you can if you have credentials, right, 588 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:47.880 if you're like a pilot already or something, you can 589 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.119 go straight into the army and become a warrant and 590 00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:52.799 go fly. So I already had that in the back 591 00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:55.079 of my mind that I kind of had the aviation 592 00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:58.440 bug that I wanted to do it. And with that 593 00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:02.200 deployment and with kind of I don't want to tuck. 594 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.720 I hope this comes out right. Like my wife did 595 00:30:05.799 --> 00:30:08.920 not deal well with me being gone all the time, sure, right, 596 00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.640 so she got really stressed out. People don't get married 597 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.119 to be single, true, Yeah, toochet so, and she was 598 00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:17.720 active duty, she had a baby at home, colic baby, right, 599 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.680 so it was a lot of just stress that was 600 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:22.200 weighing on her. So I kind of I kind of 601 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:23.759 saw the writing on the wall that like if I 602 00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:26.119 stay in this job and I'm constantly gone all the time, 603 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:28.759 like I'm kind of putting her through hell to some extent, 604 00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:32.599 you know. So, so I'd looked to the other options, 605 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.440 and I aviation was the thing that I was like, Okay, 606 00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:39.640 this is going to not only accelerate my career pay wise, right, 607 00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:42.240 but it's also going to give me a tangible skill 608 00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:43.880 that if I want to get out, I can fly, 609 00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:46.799 you know. So those are the biggest factors that went 610 00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:50.200 into it. And then during that OEFP deployment was when 611 00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:50.799 I would drop my. 612 00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:54.680 Flight packet, yeah and tell us then a little bit 613 00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:58.599 about that process of you know, presumably your packet gets 614 00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:00.319 approved and now you're going to flight school. 615 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:05.079 Yeah, so it's a pretty comprehensive packet. You do resume, 616 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:09.279 you do letters of recommendation, the whole kind of traditional 617 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:12.799 military packet, I guess if you will, and then it 618 00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:15.440 goes in front of a selection board. So there's a 619 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:19.000 selection board at Fort Rucker that basically goes through all 620 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.119 the candidates and says yes or no, we're gonna give 621 00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:24.960 you a chance to come to flight school or not. Fortunately, 622 00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.279 I was obviously selected and got the opportunity. I do 623 00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:32.599 think a lot of it was because of the letters recommendation, 624 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:35.359 well and probably being an SFKU and I'm sure helped 625 00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:38.599 a lot. But yeah, that's that's kind of how it works. 626 00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:42.519 So and then once you find out you're selected, then 627 00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:44.680 you just play the waiting game and wait for order. 628 00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:49.960 Star Rucker, Fort Rucker, Yeah, good old Fort. Yeah. And 629 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:52.839 how did flight school go for you? I think we've 630 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.079 talked to a couple one sixtieth pilots about flight school 631 00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.880 and you're like going through conventional military training, right, Yeah, 632 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:04.359 So dude, it was a culture shock to the core 633 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.680 for me. So I was expecting this. I had this 634 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.119 like opinion that in aviation everybody's on a first name basis. 635 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.920 You know, you can grow out your hair, super chill. Yeah, 636 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:18.680 So I had that false expectation going into it. I 637 00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:23.000 get to four record and you take off your staff 638 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:26.640 sergeant rank and you put on this stupid like snowbird 639 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:29.720 rank is what they call it. It's like a WC whatever. Yeah, 640 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:33.519 basically signaling to everybody that you're a new bid. Yeah 641 00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:38.920 you're the FNG so. So first though, before even flight school, 642 00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:42.680 you go to Warrnan Officer Candidate School, which is, in 643 00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:46.680 my opinion, the stupidest army course. It's changed now, thank god, 644 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:48.839 but it was not a gentleman's course. It was like 645 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:51.799 a mini basic training where you you have no phones 646 00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:55.319 or anything for like five weeks. And dude, I'm telling you, 647 00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:58.599 they basically are trying to do basic training over again 648 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:00.160 in a five week period, which is really. 649 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.039 Weird because like it's not basic training and it's not 650 00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:07.240 like Offster Canadas, right right, Like you're taking people have 651 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.839 already been in ye who are now you. 652 00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:17.039 Know, in this really unique world and you're ye triging 653 00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:20.200 them like their boots right exactly. And it was it 654 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:21.799 was like one of those things where you had to 655 00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:25.400 have your clothes perfectly dressed, right dress and like label 656 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:27.720 them and like all these just stupid things that you 657 00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:29.960 had to do to get through. It was honestly like 658 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.759 one of those even like how many pots of coffee 659 00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:36.799 can you, like warrant how many course light skinny exactly? 660 00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:38.440 How late can you be for this fore a minute? 661 00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.000 Exactly how many cigarettes can you put out in you know, 662 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:45.720 five seconds? Yeah, So that was like, so that was 663 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:47.519 just dumb. It was one of those things you just 664 00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:49.000 had to get through. I ended up being like the 665 00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:51.319 cadet commander or whatever you call it for that, which 666 00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.960 was actually cool because the last two weeks of it, 667 00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:58.839 I got my own office with my cold sergeant major 668 00:33:59.079 --> 00:34:03.160 and he was a former one sixtieth guy, not a pilot, 669 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.480 but he was going to flight school. So we got 670 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.559 a TV to ourselves, we got a coffee maker, and 671 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.760 we got to go to like Walmart and stuff off base. 672 00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:15.880 So you got the real warrant. Yeah, so we got 673 00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:18.119 the real Yeah. I think that's where it was exactly 674 00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:20.079 if you excel, then you can get. 675 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:20.719 The taste of it. 676 00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:24.480 So so yeah, that was But honestly, that of course 677 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:27.280 was just a checking the boy and then getting into 678 00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:31.719 flight school. So I was the second flight school class 679 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:37.039 that flew the new lakotas that ELU. So that also 680 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:38.880 came with some stigmas of like, you're not a real 681 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:41.920 pilot training this right, because because it's not the way 682 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:43.360 we did it in the old days. We went through 683 00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:46.760 the first easy course. Yeah, exactly, didn't have to go 684 00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:49.599 up with both ways anymore. So, but that was a 685 00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:54.119 really cool experience. The Lakota is for anybody that doesn't know, 686 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:56.920 it's just a little more advanced than the old trainer. 687 00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.559 So it has a glass cockpit, which means like digital 688 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:05.159 and autopilot systems, has a full hydraulics and everything like that. 689 00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:08.159 So it's almost, in my opinion, it's a better training 690 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:12.480 aircraft for where armaviators are going, right, because we're going 691 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:15.360 into these advanced airframes that have these systems. So it 692 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:19.239 allowed us to learn how to use the systems. Still, 693 00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:21.360 we learned how to fly, right, We still like were 694 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:23.760 they turned off the systems so you learned how to fly. 695 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:26.199 But but yeah, it was a good It was an 696 00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:28.639 easier transition because of that to the black Hawk. 697 00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.440 Hey guys, our show is sponsored by ghost Bed. Check 698 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:36.480 them out please to make awesome mattresses, awesome pillows, awesome betting. 699 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:41.239 Ghostpread provides high quality, is super comfortable, award winning mattresses 700 00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:44.280 crafted in the US and Canada. Did you know that 701 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.960 sixty percent of US adults report being too hot when 702 00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:50.079 they're trying to sleep? 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Shout 742 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:56.079 out to our brothers in Canada. They rock. Check them out. 743 00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:57.920 I love ghost Sped thanks guys. 744 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:06.039 But in flight school, so since I had the improper 745 00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:09.480 expectations right, and I was expecting to be treated with 746 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:15.480 respect and all this stuff, that's when I started down 747 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:19.519 the mental health rout. So my daughter was born when 748 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:23.239 I was in flight school, and I did not want 749 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:28.679 to take paternity leave because if you get recycled, who 750 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.159 knows how long you could be just sitting on hold 751 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:33.199 to go into the next class. So I didn't take 752 00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:37.400 paternity leave, and I was just going, going, going, And 753 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:40.519 my wife is just God bless her, She's just dealing 754 00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:42.840 with everything right while I'm just trying to succeed in 755 00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:46.159 flight school. And looking back on it now, I can 756 00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:48.519 see why it happened, right, because I was just stressing 757 00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:52.320 myself out to the max. But one day in class, 758 00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:56.079 we were just learning about the black Hawk engine, nothing crazy, 759 00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:58.960 and I just got hit with this random, suicidal thought 760 00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:03.079 and came out of nowhere. And it was the problem 761 00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:06.480 for me was that I wasn't able to just be like, huh, 762 00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:10.320 that's weird, right and let it go. I like obsessed 763 00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:12.760 over it, like I was like, why the hell did 764 00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:15.119 this happen? I've never been through this. I don't know 765 00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.159 how to react to it and how the hell do 766 00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:20.400 I fix this? Right? And that just reinforce this like 767 00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:23.000 endless thought, you know, and obviously I didn't know it. 768 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:25.599 That's probably like you doubled down on how hard you're 769 00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:29.800 working exactly. Yeah. So and that's that's a good point 770 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:32.960 because it lasted for a long time, Like it lasted 771 00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:35.559 for a good five years, and I kept trying to 772 00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:38.400 just succeed my way out of it, right, you know, 773 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:43.199 which I think is a blessing, you know, because because 774 00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:45.760 I didn't, you know, I didn't take my life and 775 00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:47.920 I didn't get to that point because I did have 776 00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:51.119 a purpose. But at the same time, like I also 777 00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:54.800 didn't give myself the space to like actually figure out 778 00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:57.039 what was going on. So you weren't seeking out any 779 00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.679 like formal mental health treatment at this time. So I 780 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:04.320 did one time. So there was one day where I 781 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:09.320 was leaving leaving class from flight school and driving home 782 00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:11.679 and I was I was scared to go home because 783 00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:15.000 of you know, I was just scared. 784 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:16.519 It was going to happen that night. Was it like 785 00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:20.159 an ideation? It was, it was like a vision, like 786 00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:25.400 I literally like visualize it. Yeah, did I wanted to 787 00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.199 revivify this. No, No, you're okay. 788 00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:29.519 So what was this for? 789 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.840 Like I like. 790 00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:36.119 This would like I just wanted to be over, like 791 00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.719 like this would be just be it just be like 792 00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:42.719 so easy, like so easy to just like so and 793 00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:44.440 whatever I'm feeling. 794 00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:50.159 Yes, that, And I literally saw myself. So it was 795 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:52.360 always worse when I was laying in bed, which is 796 00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:56.079 pretty universal, but I had my pistol in my fingerprint 797 00:40:56.119 --> 00:40:59.599 safe next to my bed, and I literally saw myself 798 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:03.440 like do it. Obviously like you don't see yourself die, 799 00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:06.840 but like I saw myself do it. And it was 800 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.400 that vision kept coming up in my head and it 801 00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:13.199 was to the point where it was like I can't 802 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.079 escape this thought right right, like so yeah, to your point, 803 00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:19.480 it was like like it's just not going to go away. 804 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:21.679 It's it's going to be like this forever and and 805 00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:22.360 and you. 806 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:24.280 Know, it's one of those things I think, like any 807 00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:28.039 sort of like uh, those recursive thoughts once you sink 808 00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:31.159 into it, you know, if you can't just like let 809 00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:33.519 it go right like once you sink into it, did 810 00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:34.880 it just yeah? 811 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:35.159 Yeah? 812 00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:40.239 And it started it started becoming like every situation too, 813 00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:42.719 like if I was driving even with my family. It 814 00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:44.920 was terrifying because I was like, we're driving over a 815 00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:48.440 bridge and I'm just like I could do it right, right, 816 00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:50.159 you know, and it was just they would just keep 817 00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.519 attacking me. So but I went to the chaplain that 818 00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:56.519 day because I was like, I can't go home, like 819 00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:58.360 I have to go talk to somebody. So I went 820 00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:00.880 to the chaplain, told him what was going on, kind 821 00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:03.559 of poured my heart out to him, and he took 822 00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:05.800 me to Behavioral Health while I'm in flight school at 823 00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:09.280 Fort Rutger. So, yeah, you were scared, right, I was terrified. 824 00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:10.800 I didn't want to go to behavior right. 825 00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:13.400 That's why I went to right because isn't there like 826 00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:15.840 a myth that if you go to the chaplain, he's 827 00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:16.519 not going to tell anything. 828 00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:18.800 That's what I thought, right, And that's I didn't like 829 00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:20.920 look into it before, but I just thought so. And 830 00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:25.360 apparently because he told me that he's like obligated if 831 00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:27.639 I say, like I have self harmed thoughts or whatever, 832 00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.280 he's obligated to take me. So literally, I had to 833 00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:32.559 get in his car and go to behavioral Health with him. 834 00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:35.679 That terrified, it was so scary, and filled out this 835 00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:39.880 stupid suicide questionnaire, right, it was like it was basically 836 00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:42.800 assessing like your seriousness, how serious you are? Did you 837 00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:46.880 lie on it? So I didn't have to, fortunately, because 838 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:49.760 the questionnaire was like there's a couple of questions. It 839 00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.559 was like, do you have thoughts of suicide? Yes? Like 840 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:54.880 do you have thoughts of harming others? No? Do you 841 00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:57.519 have a plan to do it? No? Because I didn't 842 00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.119 really right, but I didn't wasn't like I'm gonna go 843 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:03.639 do this right, And then do you want to do 844 00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:05.639 it was another example of the question and I was like, no, 845 00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:07.800 you know, I don't want this. That's just happening to me. 846 00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:11.800 I wouldn't be talking. Yeah, exactly. So so I filled 847 00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:13.840 that out and then the lady takes me back in 848 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.000 the room and I kid, you know, she just has 849 00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:17.760 the clipboard that I filled out, and she just reads 850 00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:20.559 it to me, just reads my answers, and at the 851 00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:23.440 end of it, her synopsis was, well, I think this 852 00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:25.760 is something temporary that you're going through, so I'm going 853 00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:29.719 to let you continue training, basically kind of the comeback 854 00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:33.079 if you need us right well, and I was like, 855 00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:36.239 thank god, though too right, it's a blessing in disguise, 856 00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:38.679 But at the time, I was like, are you freaking kidding? 857 00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:41.199 Like this was a cry for help, right, and you're 858 00:43:41.239 --> 00:43:42.760 just going to throw me out to the wolves. So 859 00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:46.559 that kind of like solidified that, like, all right, I'm 860 00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:48.400 not going to behavior a hole, like I am freaking 861 00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:51.199 fixing this on that and I'm not definitely not going 862 00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:55.199 to chat. So that solidified. Yeah, right, I know, dude, 863 00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:57.360 like that was supposed to be the same. Yeah, exactly, 864 00:43:57.559 --> 00:44:00.800 so me and God right exactly. Yeah, Honestly, I was 865 00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:02.920 hoping the chaplain would just be like, come see me 866 00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:03.559 once a week. 867 00:44:04.039 --> 00:44:07.679 It's it's the same with a licensed psychologist if you say, 868 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:09.119 I'm gonna like yeah, But. 869 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:11.239 Chaplains are supposed to be like that's supposed to be 870 00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:15.199 like sacred. Yeah, And I think they even like advertise 871 00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:17.800 that to something I have an open door. 872 00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:22.880 I think they allow it to kind of self perpetuate. 873 00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:26.679 You know, they might like push it along. But you're 874 00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:31.039 not safe, right, And when I say you're not safe, like, obviously, 875 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.400 chaplains should report it, obviously if they think that somebody 876 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:39.039 is in duress or you know, a threat to themselves. 877 00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:42.480 But but the thing is that like whether it's a 878 00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.880 veteran who's worried about red flag laws or somebody on 879 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.800 active duty who is worried about getting pulled from their 880 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.239 unit or whatever, flight. 881 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:53.880 School or whatever like. 882 00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:56.719 There have to and there have to be ways for 883 00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:01.679 people to address these things like sound off, right, There 884 00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:03.840 have to be ways for people to address these things. 885 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:08.079 That where they feel safe that they're not going to 886 00:45:08.119 --> 00:45:11.320 be punished for it exactly. And that's that's kind of 887 00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.559 my whole like stigma thing, right, and that's what my 888 00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:18.039 book's about. It's, yeah, like we have to break that 889 00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:21.760 because so many dudes, and you guys probably see it 890 00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:23.880 more than I do, but so many guys are still 891 00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:27.320 making that decision right and still ending it all because, 892 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.880 in my opinion, because they don't feel safe or don't 893 00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:32.719 feel like they can go get the help. 894 00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:36.880 And I think the military has proven itself even until 895 00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:38.920 today and Jack probably knows more about this than I do, 896 00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:40.719 that they can't be trusted. 897 00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:45.000 Like if you go for help many times that. 898 00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:49.960 Will there are protections, but there's a very specific way, 899 00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:52.440 and I think it's actually the behavior health clinic at 900 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:55.559 the hospital, like the TMC on Post. If you go 901 00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:57.960 in there and say I'm having a mental health crisis, 902 00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:00.480 there are some protections in place for you, but if 903 00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:02.800 you go to anywhere else, if you go to your 904 00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:05.159 first sergeant, you go to the company commander, you go 905 00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:08.360 to the chaplain, they can not always, but they can 906 00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:12.000 totally fuck you. Which I'm not saying they're all out 907 00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:13.800 to get you. A lot of them will do the 908 00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:17.960 right thing and get you the help you need. But historically, yeah, 909 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:19.400 there are guys that totally. 910 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:21.039 Yeah, I mean if if like if. 911 00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:25.039 They want to get somebody off their books because they 912 00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:27.320 don't you want it to be a black man. 913 00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:28.840 I mean, I don't know if I don't know if 914 00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:30.800 they still had it when you were around. I mean, 915 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:32.320 but when I was in the army, I mean there 916 00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:35.320 was like a strong social shaming aspect of it that 917 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.760 somebody who's somebody who said I'm having suicidal thoughts had 918 00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:41.599 to wear a road guard vest and escorted around by 919 00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:43.280 two soldiers at all times. 920 00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:49.559 Yes, And one thing that that reminds me of thirtieth AG, Like, yeah, 921 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:54.119 so thirtieth AG for the audience is like your first 922 00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:56.440 day in the Army. Like when you're in processing to 923 00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:58.599 go to basic training, you go to thirtieth AG. The 924 00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:02.000 worst place in North yeahplace ever just purgatory. But I 925 00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:05.840 just remember distinctly remember there being this like there was 926 00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:08.119 like a quad, right, like an open quad, and then 927 00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:10.159 there was a balcony or whatever you want to call it, 928 00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:13.039 a railing, and there were soldiers up there that were 929 00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:16.239 pulled from training and had their shoelaces taken away because 930 00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:20.159 they were suicidal, and the drill sergeants talked shit about them, right, 931 00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:22.280 like if you fuck up, you're gonna end up like them. 932 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:26.760 And that's that's the day that everybody learned, like, all right, 933 00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:29.559 if you have health problems, you don't talk right, like, 934 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:32.320 you keep your mouth shut and you just freaking drive on. 935 00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:35.800 So so you go to behavioral health. She gives you 936 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.199 kind of the you know, clean Dell health. Do you 937 00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:39.400 tell your wife about this? 938 00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:42.840 Yeah? So that Yeah, so my wife picked me up 939 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:44.840 actually because I didn't want the chap on to drive 940 00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:48.599 me back my wife. My wife was pissed, like she 941 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.360 was mad at me because I went there instead of 942 00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:56.960 talking to her first, more pissed that like she didn't 943 00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:01.320 know right, and then in this right, yeah, oh absolutely absolutely, 944 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:08.880 So that's how she found out. Well, actually I misspoke, 945 00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:12.679 so she found out before this. Okay, but she thought 946 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.960 it was a one time thing. And how she found out, 947 00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:19.679 which is also a messed up. I told her, hey, babe, 948 00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:22.639 I need you to go in our safe, take apart 949 00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:25.800 my gun and hide the components from me. That's how 950 00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.239 she found out because I was just I couldn't go 951 00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:32.480 to bed with my gun right there available, So that's 952 00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:35.000 how she initially found out. And then I think this 953 00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:37.360 was a couple weeks later when I went to the chaplain. 954 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:41.760 That's when she came, and she was pissed because we 955 00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:43.639 hadn't talked about it since then. It was just kind 956 00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:45.559 of one of those things that I don't think she 957 00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:47.599 knew how to deal with it right, and then obviously 958 00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:50.280 I didn't know how to deal with it. So yeah, 959 00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:52.880 she was mad. She was mad one because she knew 960 00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:57.679 the repercression, she knew what could happen. And she was 961 00:48:57.760 --> 00:48:59.840 also mad that I even had to go to be 962 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.920 because she like she knew that I went to the 963 00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:06.239 chaplain first, so she was mad about that aspect too, 964 00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:09.639 that I got forced to go there. So so it's twofold. Yeah, 965 00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:13.480 So what what happened the next day at work at 966 00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:15.880 cool I can't even remember to be honest, it was 967 00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:18.360 a blur. But but did they do me say anything 968 00:49:18.360 --> 00:49:20.119 to you? No, No, nothing happened. 969 00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:20.239 You know. 970 00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:25.159 What's interesting is I didn't hear a squeak about that, 971 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:28.639 and I didn't even know it was in my medical 972 00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:30.800 records until I was getting out of the army and 973 00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:33.400 I like reviewed everything and I was like, huh, there 974 00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:35.599 actually is a note in there about that. Because I 975 00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:37.960 was in my mind, I was like, man, that really happened. 976 00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:40.599 Yeah, yeah, well but it sounds like the chaplain did 977 00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:43.199 maintain its confidence, so I think that's probably what happened. 978 00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:44.519 Did he ever check on you though? 979 00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:48.199 Now the chaplain ever came out gave you like a 980 00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:50.840 starburst and said, hey, how are you doing? 981 00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:54.920 No crazy? That is kind of crazy pocket Bible. Yeah, 982 00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:56.760 I think he just I think he just took the 983 00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:00.719 clinician's word for it, maybe, you know, and and trusted 984 00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:02.679 me to come back if I needed to. I don't know, 985 00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:04.880 So I'm trying to give them the benefit of doubt. 986 00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:08.880 But that's kind of because generally chaplains are really they're 987 00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:12.000 like ned Flanders, right, Yeah, for sure, you know, like 988 00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:13.559 a lot of chaplains are like that. 989 00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:18.639 You know, I remember you had this two years ago. Yeah. 990 00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:22.639 I remember a few chaplains that were like fire and Brimstone, 991 00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:25.599 like ranger, Jesus wants you to kill America's enemies. 992 00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:28.320 Yeah, but they were also but I mean we had 993 00:50:28.360 --> 00:50:31.559 one of those. But he was also like, you know, 994 00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:32.679 he would come and check. 995 00:50:32.599 --> 00:50:35.480 On Yeah you care. I wonder if it was like 996 00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:37.519 one of those things that Rutgers just such a big 997 00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:38.880 trade off. Yeah, you know. 998 00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:41.800 Yeah, he was just like, so, you're dealing with some 999 00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:45.360 pretty significant stressors in life, and at the same time 1000 00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:48.199 you get assigned a third combat aviation brigade. 1001 00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.119 What was that experience like when you hit the ground there. Yeah, 1002 00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:57.519 so I actually yeah, so Third Comment Aviation Brigade was 1003 00:50:57.639 --> 00:51:00.719 cool because I wanted to go there, like I wanted Savannah. 1004 00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:04.800 It was my first choice because they were deploying soon, 1005 00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:07.440 so they were going to Afghanistan. Because it's a new pilot, 1006 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:10.800 like flight hours is everything. So the faster you can 1007 00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:13.320 get progressed and get to pilot and command, which is 1008 00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:15.960 when you're like in charge of the aircraft, the better 1009 00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:21.199 for your career. So it was good, but it was 1010 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:25.599 very much not big boy rules like I expected. Kind of, 1011 00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:28.920 like I said, the warrant officers in aviation end up 1012 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:32.239 being kind of the the people that do all the 1013 00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:34.960 details and stuff because the crew chiefs, they enlisted guys 1014 00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:37.679 are busy like maintaining the aircraft so that all falls 1015 00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:41.119 in the warrant officers the right yeah, or they're doing 1016 00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:43.440 flight schedules, you know what I mean. So it was like, 1017 00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.440 so the warrant officers, one dude will be in charge 1018 00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:48.280 of like I was the goggle custodian, so I was 1019 00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:51.960 in charge of inventorying, maintaining that all the MVG's one 1020 00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:54.519 guy will be the supply sergeant for the company, like 1021 00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:57.000 as a warrant officer and still having to fly. So 1022 00:51:57.159 --> 00:51:59.159 there's a lot of like extra duties they have to do. 1023 00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:03.800 So I think the the short answer is I wasn't 1024 00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:08.000 happy with my choice to go aviation initially and even 1025 00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:11.280 through Afghanistan, Like I just wasn't happy with it. The 1026 00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:13.679 long answer was like, at the same time, it's cool. 1027 00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:16.880 It's still cool, like playing helicopters and progressing through that 1028 00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:17.639 and stuff like that. 1029 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:20.239 So you know, one of the things that up to 1030 00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:22.039 this point that I appreciate about your story is like 1031 00:52:22.039 --> 00:52:24.280 a lot of times people associate like a lot of 1032 00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:26.960 the mental health stuff and whatnot with like this really 1033 00:52:27.039 --> 00:52:30.400 severe posh aumatic stress it's really chizing event and all 1034 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:33.400 this stuff. But it doesn't like it doesn't have to 1035 00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:36.480 be connected to them like it can just it can 1036 00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:41.360 be stressors, you know, you know the way we perceive ourselves, 1037 00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:43.719 the way you know, what the standards were holding ourselves 1038 00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:46.800 to whatever is. But it can come from anywhere at 1039 00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:50.360 any time, Yeah, for sure. And it's a testament to that. 1040 00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:53.079 And this is not to brag by any means, Okay, 1041 00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:57.000 but you see all these high performing guys like end 1042 00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.679 up taking their lives right and everybody's like what happened? Like, 1043 00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:03.119 how could that happen to him? I thought he had 1044 00:53:03.159 --> 00:53:05.719 his life altogether right, and he did on the outside, 1045 00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:07.800 and that's kind of what I was, right, Like I 1046 00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:10.480 ended up graduating of this the distinguished on a graduate 1047 00:53:10.519 --> 00:53:12.280 in my flight school class through all that, you know, 1048 00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:14.639 even when dealing with all that, like so that just 1049 00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:18.320 shows like that you can mask it. And it's it's 1050 00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:21.360 fairly easy to mask it, to be honest, Like you 1051 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:24.079 just kind of stuff it down and keep going and 1052 00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:27.119 deal with it on your own. That's kind of why 1053 00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:29.519 I want to say that is because like there's a 1054 00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:32.480 lot of people out there that are very high performing 1055 00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:34.719 and they fall into this trap and real common with 1056 00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.199 the soft guys, Like like one friend of mine used 1057 00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:40.079 to say, you know it's being functionally fucked up. Yeah, 1058 00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:43.400 you know that It's true your high performing, but your 1059 00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:45.639 internal world is just total turmoil. 1060 00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:48.880 And I think I think that for a lot of 1061 00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:51.639 especially soft guys, I think that there is a lot 1062 00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:55.679 of miscorrelation with post traumatic stress, and that I think 1063 00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:58.280 so to stuff. I think that I think there is 1064 00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:00.679 post traumatic stress, but I don't I assily I think 1065 00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:04.079 that the post traumatic stress is what leads to it's 1066 00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:05.760 there's so many other. 1067 00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:08.800 Things I agree, especially with the guy's transitioning right, yes, 1068 00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:11.440 because they're going so hard and then the noise stops 1069 00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:13.639 and they're like what do I do? Like who am 1070 00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:14.159 I you know? 1071 00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:17.760 With with your process of going through do you you know, 1072 00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:19.760 did you ever were able to put the finger on 1073 00:54:19.840 --> 00:54:24.480 sort of what the trigger aspect or the balance aspect. 1074 00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:28.039 Of it was for you? Kind of So I just 1075 00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:31.559 looked at looking back, I can look at like the 1076 00:54:31.639 --> 00:54:33.639 stressors that were leading up to it, right, So, like 1077 00:54:33.760 --> 00:54:36.599 my transition from SF me not being happy with my 1078 00:54:36.679 --> 00:54:40.639 aviation decision, the grind to flight school, and then my 1079 00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:43.760 daughter being born, her not sleeping, you know, so sleep 1080 00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:46.559 was all jacked up. My wife was also stressed out. 1081 00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:49.199 So it was a lot of like compounding factors that 1082 00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:52.239 just kind of landed at the same time and led 1083 00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:54.920 to it. But the weird thing is there was no 1084 00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:57.119 like slow lead up, right, Like, it wasn't like I 1085 00:54:57.239 --> 00:54:59.039 was just like, ah, life sucks, you know, it's just 1086 00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:03.519 like boom, dude, they field and told the same story. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, 1087 00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:06.199 So that that was the most bizarre thing because I 1088 00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:09.119 did not I had never dealt with anything before, you know, 1089 00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:10.360 like that, so I had no idea. 1090 00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:12.280 Well, you know, and I think you know, like you know, 1091 00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:13.880 they talk about the twenty two a day and twenty 1092 00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:16.280 three a day, but also if you look at men 1093 00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:19.480 at a certain age or whatever that they're you know 1094 00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:24.079 that their statistics is much So it's not just the veteran. 1095 00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:26.400 It's not just the combat veteran. It's not just the 1096 00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:34.199 soft but it's definitely a very male oriented like you know, 1097 00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:37.880 whether it's we feel like we're not living up or 1098 00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:41.079 we feel disillusion whatever it is, whatever combination. 1099 00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:43.960 Yes, I feel like we just take on so much, right, 1100 00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:46.199 and we feel like we just we have to we 1101 00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:48.679 just have to push through. Notter what Yeah, I think 1102 00:55:48.760 --> 00:55:52.599 so too. Very interesting. Yeah, so your missus must have 1103 00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:54.679 been thrilled when you got deployed to Afghanistan. 1104 00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:55.400 Yeah. 1105 00:55:56.239 --> 00:55:59.000 Fortunately by this time she was out of the army. Okay, 1106 00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:01.199 So it was better she was out of the army, 1107 00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:04.519 we were stable in Savannah. Like, she didn't have the stress. 1108 00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:08.400 She she was a signal officer and she hated the army. 1109 00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:10.519 She hated her job, like it was just one of 1110 00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:13.440 those things that she was just like, get me out 1111 00:56:13.480 --> 00:56:15.119 of here. I can't wait to get out. So stress 1112 00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:18.400 was mitigated by that a lot. And the kids weren't 1113 00:56:18.440 --> 00:56:20.480 babies anymore, so they were it was a little better. 1114 00:56:20.599 --> 00:56:23.239 Yeah know, like so yeah, it was it was more 1115 00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:26.679 tolerable for her. Honestly, I probably had a worse time 1116 00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:28.599 than she did during that nine months because I was 1117 00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:30.800 still dealing with the crap. So you were a black 1118 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:36.079 Hawk guy, black Hawk pilot. What was the Afghanistan deployment 1119 00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:38.039 like very frustrating? 1120 00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:38.599 Yeah? 1121 00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:44.079 Yeah, because seventeen eighteen, ok. Yeah, so flight school was 1122 00:56:44.119 --> 00:56:48.559 twenty fifteen to twenty seventeen and then Afghana was seventeen eighteen. 1123 00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:54.440 Very frustrating because as a like former SF dude, I 1124 00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:56.320 wanted to do the cool stuff, get after it. I 1125 00:56:56.360 --> 00:56:58.440 wanted to bring people to X. I wanted to you know, 1126 00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:03.039 be doing the missions. And ninety five percent of our 1127 00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:07.880 flying was acid trash, just moving people from the string routes. 1128 00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:11.000 Whether it was day or night, it didn't matter it 1129 00:57:11.159 --> 00:57:14.320 was And when we did get a mission that was supporting, 1130 00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:17.199 like an SF team or something, the senior guys would 1131 00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:19.199 take it and none of the junior guys got to 1132 00:57:19.239 --> 00:57:20.880 go on it. So it was one of those things 1133 00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:22.880 where I was like cool, Like how am I going 1134 00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:25.519 to learn if I don't get the chance. So by 1135 00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:28.960 the end of that deployment, apparently I had a thing 1136 00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.800 with ended of deployments and changing careers, but I dropped 1137 00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:35.000 my one sixtieth packet because I was like, I am 1138 00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.199 getting out of the army or I'm going to the 1139 00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:39.159 one sixtieth Like I didn't sign up to be a 1140 00:57:39.199 --> 00:57:43.199 pilot to go fly right in land driver. Yeah, Like 1141 00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:46.559 that's not what I wanted to do. So at the 1142 00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:49.559 end of that deployment, I finally that was the blessing 1143 00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:51.239 of the deployment though, is I got a lot of hours, 1144 00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:54.159 so I got I went far ahead of my peers, 1145 00:57:54.280 --> 00:57:57.360 like so in the matter of a year, I was 1146 00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:00.760 able to drop my one sixtieth packet, which they do 1147 00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:04.000 have minimum requirements for hours, so it's five hundred hours. 1148 00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:07.400 Five hundred hours and piloting command, so you have to 1149 00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:09.480 be a piloting command and have five hundred flight hours 1150 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:11.719 at least when I assessed, that's what it was. So 1151 00:58:11.880 --> 00:58:14.840 I hit that at probably the month seventh mark of 1152 00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:17.360 my deployment, and I was I dropped it right away, 1153 00:58:18.199 --> 00:58:20.679 got my letters, wreck and everything, and then by the 1154 00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:23.519 end of that deployment, I had an invitation to go assess, 1155 00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:26.760 so I got back in June twenty eighteen and then 1156 00:58:26.840 --> 00:58:29.840 August I assessed, So it was like it was perfect 1157 00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:31.920 because I was in nine month deployment shape, you know, 1158 00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:34.960 going into assessments and what was assessment like for you? 1159 00:58:36.199 --> 00:58:41.400 It was definitely hard, mostly because I was still dealing 1160 00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:43.880 with this crap, so I was at this point it 1161 00:58:44.119 --> 00:58:47.000 was I was having these like physical Dizzey spells, So 1162 00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:50.320 the depression had morphed into these Dizzey spells, which I 1163 00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:52.239 didn't know what they were at the time, but they're 1164 00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:55.679 panic attacks, which I didn't know, so I was dealing 1165 00:58:55.719 --> 00:58:59.840 with that. So that part was tough. And then assessment 1166 00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:01.280 is one of those things where it's meant for you 1167 00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:04.239 to feel like you're failing the whole time, so you don't. 1168 00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:06.159 I don't think anybody goes to it and it's like, yeah, 1169 00:59:06.199 --> 00:59:11.159 I crush that right right, So but it was it 1170 00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:13.519 was also at the same time, as hard as it was, 1171 00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:16.800 it was a good insight into the regiment and into 1172 00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:21.119 how professional and next level they are, because I, to 1173 00:59:21.199 --> 00:59:24.159 be honest, I was feeling pretty confident in my ability 1174 00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:27.039 to fly and my ability to brief and plan because 1175 00:59:27.079 --> 00:59:28.599 I had just come off the deployment and a lot 1176 00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:32.800 of like repetition, and I get to the assessment and 1177 00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:36.599 you have to put together brief and stuff, and I 1178 00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:41.480 got torn apart in that brief, like just annihilated, and 1179 00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:44.760 so many questions that they asked me I just had 1180 00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:46.119 no answer for. I didn't even know what they were 1181 00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:48.760 talking about some of the times, and that was just 1182 00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:51.039 kind of like, Okay, this is the big league, so 1183 00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:53.840 like this is where I want to be type of thing. 1184 00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:58.119 So so yeah, it specially it was definitely hard, more 1185 00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:02.079 mentally and just you're just sleep deprived and having to 1186 01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:05.360 do a bunch of things, so more mentally challenging than physically. 1187 01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:09.159 The physical stuff was. It wasn't bad. It was like 1188 01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:11.440 pet tests and stuff like that. So I feel like 1189 01:00:11.719 --> 01:00:14.679 you should. Were you surprised to learn that you survived 1190 01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:19.039 that panel? That board? Have you heard about that? Yeah? 1191 01:00:19.239 --> 01:00:23.159 So so the one sixtieth you're talking about the end 1192 01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:25.760 of assessment? Yeah, yeah, so the one sixtieth board at 1193 01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:29.000 the end of assessment. This is uh, I can't give 1194 01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:33.440 too much away, but what I've heard and what I 1195 01:00:33.559 --> 01:00:37.039 know now is that if you crush the assessment, they're 1196 01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:39.679 going to be dicks to you, like they're just going 1197 01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:42.679 to tear you apart and zere you react. Right, It's 1198 01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:45.239 kind of their last view. It's kind of their last 1199 01:00:45.320 --> 01:00:47.079 view of like, all right, let's tear him down and 1200 01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:51.079 let's see what he does. And so I get through 1201 01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:55.280 with my board and I was shaking the whole time. Actually, 1202 01:00:55.360 --> 01:00:56.880 an interesting point is you have to talk to the 1203 01:00:56.920 --> 01:00:59.280 site during one point in assessment, and I was still 1204 01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:02.639 hiding everything, and during my assessment, I was like shaking 1205 01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:06.000 and he called me out on my board and he said, 1206 01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:09.880 you look extremely anxious right now. And I've played it off. 1207 01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:11.599 And I was like, I mean, I am, sir, this 1208 01:01:11.719 --> 01:01:12.960 is a lot of pressure, you know what I mean, 1209 01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:15.400 Like I played it off, but like at the same time, 1210 01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:17.039 I was like, shit, he sees right through me, you know. 1211 01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:21.199 So I leave the board. It's like I think it 1212 01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:24.400 was an hour long board. I leave it. I go 1213 01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:27.239 in this waiting room. It seems like forever they you know, 1214 01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:29.519 it's where they you know, get their counsel together and 1215 01:01:29.599 --> 01:01:32.199 say whether you made it or not. And I come 1216 01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:35.679 back report back to the room. And when I walk 1217 01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:39.440 in there's a paper sign handwritten it said no go. 1218 01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:42.840 I was like, you know, like all his freaking work. 1219 01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:46.320 So I walk in and stand at attention and the 1220 01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:49.719 president of the board I think it was the DCO. 1221 01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:51.920 So it's not the regim medical commander but the guy 1222 01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:55.440 below him, and he was like, mister Kelly, like, I 1223 01:01:55.519 --> 01:01:59.039 appreciate you coming. You know, you put your good, good 1224 01:01:59.079 --> 01:02:01.920 foot forward. We want you to go back to your 1225 01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:05.519 unit and then come back here in grape Tune in January. 1226 01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:08.519 And I was like wait a second, Like I mean 1227 01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:11.199 I passed you know, and like then everybody started clapping 1228 01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:15.639 and stuff, So yeah, I know, I was like, yeah, yeah, 1229 01:02:18.760 --> 01:02:21.639 roller coaster. Can you imagine somebody who like spasses out 1230 01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:22.480 at that moment. 1231 01:02:26.559 --> 01:02:30.360 I heard a story about a gentleman at the board 1232 01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:33.239 for Delta Force selection who picked up the folding chair 1233 01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:34.800 and wung it at the board members. 1234 01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:38.199 Whoa, because he's just like fucking with the. 1235 01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:41.960 SF guy, right and at a certain point, like I 1236 01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:43.840 can't take that all right, dude, Yeah. 1237 01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:50.000 I get it right, Dang, that's crazy like thunderdome. Yeah. Yeah, 1238 01:02:50.079 --> 01:02:52.519 So that was my That was my assessment. How did 1239 01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:53.079 that feel for you? 1240 01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:53.360 Like? 1241 01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:59.800 Amazing? Amazing? And I will say that the suicidal stuff 1242 01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:03.559 did kind of get better, like it was now. It 1243 01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:06.559 wasn't like over consuming, It wasn't like every day I 1244 01:03:06.679 --> 01:03:08.000 was dealing with it now, it was like every once 1245 01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:10.519 in a while. But the anxiety was still there, like 1246 01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:13.280 the Dizney spells were still there. But the suicidal ideations 1247 01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:16.239 did get better as my situation improved. Did you at all? 1248 01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:18.480 You know, because you know you were in SSEF but 1249 01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:21.800 you didn't go to Afghanistan. Then you went aviation and 1250 01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:24.199 you were doing the ring rape. Did you at all 1251 01:03:24.440 --> 01:03:28.599 feel as though you kept missing it like this, like 1252 01:03:28.679 --> 01:03:30.599 this world just wasn't what it was supposed to be 1253 01:03:30.719 --> 01:03:30.880 for you. 1254 01:03:32.079 --> 01:03:37.840 Because and then Cherry on top is my brother has 1255 01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:40.639 kind of followed my footsteps, so he went SSEF and everything, 1256 01:03:41.199 --> 01:03:44.480 and when I got back from Afghanistan, he goes to 1257 01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:48.119 Afghanistan with tenth Group and sees all his share right 1258 01:03:48.159 --> 01:03:50.360 and does all this awesome stuff. And I'm just like, dude, 1259 01:03:50.559 --> 01:03:52.559 come on, I've been in the Army for you know 1260 01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:55.320 this long, and this is your first trip. So yeah, 1261 01:03:55.480 --> 01:03:58.599 I definitely had that. I definitely had that, like the 1262 01:03:58.679 --> 01:04:01.679 stain of like, you know, two deployments. I don't even 1263 01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:04.280 have a CIB or a or a cab for that matter, 1264 01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:07.320 like you know, like, so yeah, I definitely had that. 1265 01:04:07.480 --> 01:04:09.559 It was like because it was one of those things 1266 01:04:09.559 --> 01:04:13.360 where you always wonder, right like sure, like even though 1267 01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:14.840 I know I would have done the job and I 1268 01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:16.840 would have it's not like I would have ran away. 1269 01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:16.760 But. 1270 01:04:18.280 --> 01:04:20.559 It's always a question. Yeah, it's still that thing of 1271 01:04:20.679 --> 01:04:24.159 like how was a green platoon when you got there? 1272 01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:30.199 Green Platune was? It was great? So I I when 1273 01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:33.039 I got when I found out I was going to 1274 01:04:33.039 --> 01:04:34.559 the one sixtieth, I was told I was going to 1275 01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:37.760 go to first Battalion and uh fly DAPs. So I 1276 01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:40.079 was told I was going to go be a DAP pilot. Yeah, 1277 01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:42.159 So I was pumped about it, and I made the 1278 01:04:42.199 --> 01:04:45.039 fatal mistake and bought a house in Fort Campbell and 1279 01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:48.800 found out about I think a month prior to reporting 1280 01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:51.320 that I was going to third Battalion and not flying DAPs. 1281 01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:53.559 So I was going to Savannah, Savannah, back to Savannah. 1282 01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:57.000 So we had to make the kind of decision of like, 1283 01:04:57.039 --> 01:04:59.039 all right, we'll just rent out the house if it, 1284 01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:04.199 you know, it doesn't appreciate value or whatever. So I 1285 01:05:04.280 --> 01:05:06.800 show up to greenp Tune and the first part of 1286 01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:09.599 Green Tune is Officer greenp Tunes. So that's when you're 1287 01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:14.000 doing like the the kind of soft version of basic training, 1288 01:05:14.039 --> 01:05:17.440 if you will, right like they're they're teaching you, which 1289 01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:20.280 is actually good, Like it was actually even being a 1290 01:05:20.360 --> 01:05:22.199 former SF guy, it was still good because I got 1291 01:05:22.199 --> 01:05:24.920 a lot of reinforcement. Was just finally though the warrant 1292 01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:29.679 world that you thought, yes, there was, yes, this very professional, 1293 01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:34.480 very much so. Yeah, and the enlisted guys, it's a 1294 01:05:34.519 --> 01:05:37.239 different story. The enlisted greenp tune. That's they're getting smoked 1295 01:05:37.239 --> 01:05:40.840 and they're getting kind of indoctrinated. But that's also a 1296 01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:43.639 lot of them are like straight from basic training, are 1297 01:05:43.719 --> 01:05:46.599 so rightly so yeah, but it did feel good to 1298 01:05:46.639 --> 01:05:49.719 be on the other side for a while, right, So, yeah, 1299 01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:52.440 we got the big boy rules got to do. It 1300 01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:57.239 was a lot of like medical training, shooting, some landing 1301 01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:00.400 av things like that. Nothing crazy, But then you move 1302 01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:05.519 into your b NAB, which is basic navigation, and that's 1303 01:06:05.559 --> 01:06:09.480 where you learn to navigate in there without any instruments 1304 01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:14.519 literally a map, a map and a stopwatch and you're 1305 01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:18.480 flying off way points. Yeah, it was plus minus thirty. 1306 01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:21.719 It was so hard. Yeah, you but the cool thing 1307 01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:23.599 is you do I think you do nine missions total 1308 01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:26.199 and it's this is a three week period where you're 1309 01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:28.679 you're ingrained in it, like you're sixteen hour days every 1310 01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:33.000 single day. But missions i'd say one through three like 1311 01:06:33.239 --> 01:06:35.599 nobody finds their target and nobody's on time, you know. 1312 01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:38.079 But then by mission four and five, like you start 1313 01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:40.679 finding it and you start getting on time, and it's 1314 01:06:40.719 --> 01:06:44.480 pretty awesome to see like what you can do right 1315 01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:47.039 with that training because you have to adjust for wins 1316 01:06:47.079 --> 01:06:48.599 and all this stuff and that's all in a little bird. 1317 01:06:48.679 --> 01:06:51.159 So you're flying a little bird and literally just using 1318 01:06:51.159 --> 01:06:53.320 a finger light on your map and like, all right, 1319 01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:56.239 I hope that's that intersection, you know, and like, yeah, 1320 01:06:56.320 --> 01:06:59.360 it's it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool to to 1321 01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:02.880 see it all come together. And then by mission nine, 1322 01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:04.599 like yeah, everybody's sitting in their target. 1323 01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:06.320 Do you feel like your time in stuff, you know, 1324 01:07:06.440 --> 01:07:08.519 having done you know, the star course and all that stuff. 1325 01:07:08.519 --> 01:07:09.559 Do you feel that that helped you? 1326 01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:15.880 Yeah? I think just honestly, like the basic land navigation 1327 01:07:16.400 --> 01:07:22.000 concepts right where I because I did start out right, yeah, yeah, 1328 01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:23.760 and I started out that course. I do feel like 1329 01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:26.400 I had a leg up on everybody already because of that. Yeah, 1330 01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:30.039 especially especially in the Green teone part, but definitely in 1331 01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:33.199 bing app I think I think that helped a lot. Yeah, 1332 01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:36.400 and just understanding how it works back to assessment, so 1333 01:07:36.519 --> 01:07:39.760 we have to do that in assessment too. And I 1334 01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:42.760 actually humble brag I was one of the rare people 1335 01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:45.119 that found my target. I wasn't on time, but I 1336 01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:47.920 found it and I was so proud of myself. And 1337 01:07:48.039 --> 01:07:51.440 then of course the cadre or the my assessment pilot 1338 01:07:51.599 --> 01:07:53.760 was like you suck. You didn't you know? You were 1339 01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:56.039 out of time, out of standard, you know, And I'm 1340 01:07:56.039 --> 01:07:58.519 just like, come on, man, I've heard nobody finds their 1341 01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:01.880 even if you would have been on time, I know something. 1342 01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:04.599 Yeah sure, but but yeah, So that's been at and 1343 01:08:04.679 --> 01:08:06.920 then after that you go into your airframe, so you 1344 01:08:07.039 --> 01:08:09.000 go into I went into the sixty course and that 1345 01:08:09.880 --> 01:08:10.519 was incredible. 1346 01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:10.719 Man. 1347 01:08:10.800 --> 01:08:13.719 That is where you learn to fly, like like the 1348 01:08:13.760 --> 01:08:17.159 one sixtieth, Like that's where you're going to uh Colorado, 1349 01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:21.399 going to Virginia Beach and doing overwater mountains and learning 1350 01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:24.520 to put one wheel on a pinnacle and it's it's 1351 01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:27.840 really cool. Yeah, it's really cool. And one of the 1352 01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:30.239 cooler parts of that course too is you're being taught 1353 01:08:30.319 --> 01:08:33.600 by like one sixtieth legends, like these guys are they're 1354 01:08:33.680 --> 01:08:38.039 just contractors now, you know, and they're insanely like relaxed 1355 01:08:38.239 --> 01:08:41.520 but also insanely just competent good at what they do. 1356 01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:44.880 Like those guys are just ye phenomenal pilots. 1357 01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:48.520 So I guess I think for people who may not 1358 01:08:48.680 --> 01:08:52.960 be familiar with like how the one sixtieth, it is 1359 01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:57.399 different than you know, like conventional army especially with like 1360 01:08:57.479 --> 01:09:00.680 black Hawks and stuff. Is you you think of like 1361 01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:05.319 like maybe a BMX writer, right, you know, a guy 1362 01:09:05.479 --> 01:09:07.680 doing jomps blah blah blah. And then you think of 1363 01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:10.000 the guys who like hop up on rails and ride 1364 01:09:10.039 --> 01:09:13.359 down rails and bunny hop on you know, like between 1365 01:09:13.479 --> 01:09:16.399 like pillars and stuff like that, and it's like, what 1366 01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:19.279 what the one sixtieth pilots are capable of doing on 1367 01:09:19.439 --> 01:09:23.319 any airframe? Yeah, but are capable of doing is insane? 1368 01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:25.319 It's incredible. Yeah, it's incredible. 1369 01:09:25.399 --> 01:09:28.800 There's even and some of the pilots in the one 1370 01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:32.000 sixtieth are a lot like I would I would consider 1371 01:09:32.079 --> 01:09:34.800 myself like a decent pilot, right, And there's some pilots 1372 01:09:34.840 --> 01:09:38.039 that are just insanely phenomenal. Yeah, Like I fly with 1373 01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:40.000 one guy, one guy in my unit that I can 1374 01:09:40.119 --> 01:09:44.000 distinctly remember, like he was so good that I was 1375 01:09:44.119 --> 01:09:47.000 nervous in the cockpit with him flying. But it wasn't 1376 01:09:47.119 --> 01:09:49.399 like because he was dangerous. He was just that good 1377 01:09:49.479 --> 01:09:51.560 and that like all right, yeah, let's do this, and 1378 01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:54.239 I'm just like dangered. I wouldn't do that, you know. Yeah. 1379 01:09:54.439 --> 01:09:56.840 So it's pretty cool to see though, and it's cool 1380 01:09:56.880 --> 01:09:58.439 to be a part of really cool to be a 1381 01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:02.640 part of, and then you get deployed to Iraq. Yeah 1382 01:10:02.760 --> 01:10:07.039 with the unit. Yeah, so this was the infamous COVID deployment. 1383 01:10:07.119 --> 01:10:09.600 So we went out there and it was supposed to 1384 01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:11.880 be a sixty day deployment and then the world shut 1385 01:10:11.960 --> 01:10:15.239 down and we got to enjoy it for another sixty days. 1386 01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:17.600 So it ended up doubling, which doesn't seem long, but 1387 01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:20.920 when you're in the one sixty at the op tempo 1388 01:10:21.079 --> 01:10:23.640 is insane, Like it's every day, twelve hour days, you know, 1389 01:10:23.760 --> 01:10:25.840 so you're not like it's not like a nine month 1390 01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:28.000 deployment where you're like five days on, one day off 1391 01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:30.880 or whatever it is. You know, it's it's balls of 1392 01:10:30.920 --> 01:10:33.960 the wall every single day and you're going hard. So yeah, 1393 01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:37.520 it ended up being a yeah, a four month deployment. 1394 01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:41.560 I don't know how much I can even get into 1395 01:10:41.600 --> 01:10:44.560 it about there, like the specifics of that, But did 1396 01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:47.079 you finally feel like that's what I was going to say, 1397 01:10:47.439 --> 01:10:48.399 That's what I was going to say. 1398 01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:52.000 Yeah, that's where I got airframe, Like, this is it 1399 01:10:52.079 --> 01:10:54.119 I'm finally doing. That's where I got it in Yeah, 1400 01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:56.359 and that's where I was. Yes, that's where I was 1401 01:10:56.439 --> 01:11:00.239 finally like finally, yes, I've done something that I signed 1402 01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:00.560 up to do. 1403 01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:04.760 You know, which was the coolest part about regiment is 1404 01:11:04.840 --> 01:11:08.560 that I know Lindsay mentioned it, but like we truly 1405 01:11:08.680 --> 01:11:13.680 train as we fight, and like on deployments, we do 1406 01:11:13.880 --> 01:11:15.359 the job that we're supposed to do, you know what 1407 01:11:15.399 --> 01:11:17.199 I mean, Like we do the mission that we're designed 1408 01:11:17.199 --> 01:11:19.159 to do. We're not just like, oh yeah, maybe we'll 1409 01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:21.439 do that once an once in a while. Is there 1410 01:11:21.479 --> 01:11:23.399 any that you can kind of like even around about 1411 01:11:23.439 --> 01:11:26.119 sort of way, Yeah, yeah, so I can talk about 1412 01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:31.880 one where I'm not gonna like say locations or anything. 1413 01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:35.600 But we took this is this is kind of a 1414 01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:37.880 funny story in a way because I don't have like 1415 01:11:38.560 --> 01:11:41.960 I don't have any like crazy like you know, yeah, 1416 01:11:42.079 --> 01:11:44.680 like I don't have any like valor worthy stories, you know. 1417 01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:48.920 But one funny story is so we were the dirty 1418 01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:52.159 Bird since it was COVID, so we had to figure out, like, 1419 01:11:52.920 --> 01:11:55.640 all right, if we take someone off target, like what 1420 01:11:55.760 --> 01:11:57.760 are we doing with them? You know? So what we 1421 01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:00.520 figured out or what we decided, I didn't just the 1422 01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:03.399 higher ups decided that was we're gonna have one aircraft 1423 01:12:03.479 --> 01:12:06.840 dedicated to any detainees or anybody would take off target 1424 01:12:07.359 --> 01:12:09.960 and they're gonna be the dirty bird. So we take 1425 01:12:10.039 --> 01:12:12.760 someone off target and this poor guy had to be 1426 01:12:13.039 --> 01:12:15.920 like wrapped in a body bag, COVID swabed and all 1427 01:12:15.960 --> 01:12:18.840 this stuff, and fly back like three hours I think 1428 01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:21.159 two and a half hours maybe in a black Hawk, 1429 01:12:21.239 --> 01:12:23.439 just pitch black right just on the ground in a 1430 01:12:23.479 --> 01:12:27.840 body bag, literally like no idea, what's going on. And 1431 01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:32.520 then when we landed we had to Our decontamination plan 1432 01:12:32.840 --> 01:12:36.119 was literally like going a connex that they put heat 1433 01:12:36.199 --> 01:12:42.000 lamps in, stripped down and rinse off and then throw 1434 01:12:42.079 --> 01:12:44.960 on whatever, just normal clothes and leave our uniform in 1435 01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:46.560 there for twenty four hours. So that was like our 1436 01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:50.880 decon plan. And while everything was good, but like that's 1437 01:12:51.479 --> 01:12:57.119 that's like the most It's just dumb. Yeah, it's just dumb. 1438 01:12:57.199 --> 01:12:59.000 Like looking back on I'm like, why did we do 1439 01:12:59.119 --> 01:13:01.079 any of that? You know, but like nobody knew what 1440 01:13:01.159 --> 01:13:03.279 to do. That was just like the answer for it. 1441 01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:07.399 But other than that, man, I don't have any like 1442 01:13:07.560 --> 01:13:11.079 crazy stories, like we did our job and nothing fortunately, 1443 01:13:11.199 --> 01:13:15.560 nothing really went went sideways. Yeah, except there was one 1444 01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:20.239 mission that this is another missing out opportunity. So there 1445 01:13:20.279 --> 01:13:24.479 were valor awards on this mission, and our aircraft was 1446 01:13:24.520 --> 01:13:28.079 broken so we didn't go. So four other aircraft go 1447 01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:30.199 on this mission, and it was like a q r 1448 01:13:30.359 --> 01:13:34.239 F in the mountains and like right on the exert. Yeah. 1449 01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:38.319 It was actually I don't remember the specifics, but it 1450 01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:40.680 was like on a mountain side, yeah, and they had 1451 01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:42.960 to go do some high hovers and faster people and 1452 01:13:43.720 --> 01:13:46.399 actually I think repel people out was what it was. Yeah. 1453 01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:49.279 So it was pretty intense, like hovering at like a 1454 01:13:49.399 --> 01:13:52.880 high hover, you know, getting shot at, repelling people out. 1455 01:13:53.439 --> 01:13:56.479 I mean that's just so that's Vietnam War, right, It 1456 01:13:56.560 --> 01:13:59.279 really falls of steel to just keep a bird in 1457 01:13:59.399 --> 01:14:03.119 place when everybody has a beat on, you're helpless, Yeah, 1458 01:14:03.319 --> 01:14:06.119 because you got to, like the troops gotta get down exactly. 1459 01:14:06.279 --> 01:14:09.279 Yeah, you pull off and they're taken. That's a long 1460 01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:13.199 ass fast rope. Yeah yeah. Yeah. 1461 01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:17.199 So, so getting back to the United States from that deployment, 1462 01:14:17.359 --> 01:14:20.159 like what's going on with you personally and professionally at 1463 01:14:20.199 --> 01:14:21.039 that juncture. 1464 01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:25.680 So I didn't at this point, I was still progressing. 1465 01:14:25.880 --> 01:14:29.119 So in the one sixtieth when you first get there, 1466 01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:32.479 you're BMQ, so basic mission qualified, So that's like the 1467 01:14:32.680 --> 01:14:36.600 entry level whatever your goal is to make FMQ so 1468 01:14:36.680 --> 01:14:40.359 fully mission qualified, so that's when you it's the same 1469 01:14:40.399 --> 01:14:42.920 as a piloting command in the regular arm so that's 1470 01:14:42.920 --> 01:14:45.560 when you have control of your aircraft and you're like 1471 01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:50.359 in charge of your career. So that was like I 1472 01:14:50.520 --> 01:14:54.319 was progressing towards that during the deployment in Iraq. The 1473 01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:57.800 good part about the COVID problem was that we did 1474 01:14:57.960 --> 01:15:00.640 have like it got shut down for it, so weren't 1475 01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:02.680 doing anything for a little bit, So there was some 1476 01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:05.319 training opportunities, so I got to actually like lead some 1477 01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:09.760 missions training missions right, but I got to plan, brief 1478 01:15:09.800 --> 01:15:12.199 and execute all those and get those done, which were 1479 01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:17.479 helped me kind of progress towards that FMQ. But then in. 1480 01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:23.159 January of the next year, so Iraq was twenty twenty 1481 01:15:23.840 --> 01:15:26.680 and January the next year, I. 1482 01:15:28.279 --> 01:15:30.840 Had my FMQ right scheduled for April of that year, 1483 01:15:31.560 --> 01:15:36.199 but I was having a lot of knee issues, like 1484 01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:38.640 to the point where I couldn't run more than half 1485 01:15:38.680 --> 01:15:41.319 a mile without having to stop. So I got an 1486 01:15:41.439 --> 01:15:43.800 MRA on it, and they found that I had like 1487 01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:45.800 a defect in my knee, like there was literally like 1488 01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:48.640 a hole missing in my knee, that it was just 1489 01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:51.600 bone on bone, just grinding. Yeah, I think it was 1490 01:15:51.760 --> 01:15:53.840 just like wear and tear over time. But I also 1491 01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:55.640 think that there had to been some genetic shit. It 1492 01:15:55.680 --> 01:15:58.920 doesn't happen to everybody. So I ended up having to 1493 01:15:58.960 --> 01:16:02.159 get knee surgery that January, and that was a nine 1494 01:16:02.239 --> 01:16:06.479 month like recovery time, so blessing and a curse. 1495 01:16:06.600 --> 01:16:06.640 Like. 1496 01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:08.760 I was pissed off, obviously because I wanted to like 1497 01:16:08.840 --> 01:16:13.439 continue progressing. But during that nine month period, that allowed 1498 01:16:13.479 --> 01:16:16.560 me to accept the fact that I was already grounded 1499 01:16:17.079 --> 01:16:21.039 and tell somebody about these daisy spells. So that gave me, 1500 01:16:21.279 --> 01:16:23.680 that gave myself the permission to be like, all right, 1501 01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:26.199 let's try to figure this out. Now that I now 1502 01:16:26.279 --> 01:16:28.319 that the consequence that I was scared of is gone, 1503 01:16:28.640 --> 01:16:30.520 I'm not flying, Let's try to figure this out. So 1504 01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:35.560 what that leads to, though, this is a really long story, 1505 01:16:35.680 --> 01:16:37.560 so interrupt me if it's like that. 1506 01:16:38.159 --> 01:16:40.359 Before you start that. I want to ask you one 1507 01:16:40.479 --> 01:16:43.119 thing I want to before you start this story. Yeah, 1508 01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:47.479 when you were you know, like just hop and pop 1509 01:16:47.600 --> 01:16:53.159 in like in a rock, did won the ideation and 1510 01:16:53.319 --> 01:16:55.359 to the anxiety was this still there. 1511 01:16:55.479 --> 01:16:57.479 Did it seem to go away with the adrenaline and 1512 01:16:57.520 --> 01:17:00.279 stuff like that. Yeah, that's a great question. So the 1513 01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:06.239 suicidal ideation was pretty much gone by that point. I 1514 01:17:06.399 --> 01:17:08.439 was still having the dizzy spells and the anxiety. But 1515 01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:10.560 the ironic thing is that never happened in the aircraft, 1516 01:17:10.680 --> 01:17:13.199 right it was I think it was the adrenaline though. 1517 01:17:13.199 --> 01:17:15.520 I think it was the adrenaline and the focus required, 1518 01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:19.640 right because like the zone. Yeah, so I really, I mean, 1519 01:17:19.720 --> 01:17:22.239 I don't know, but that's what I attributed to because 1520 01:17:22.319 --> 01:17:24.439 like that would have been a different story if I 1521 01:17:24.600 --> 01:17:28.760 was just a total focus exactly, and you're like task, 1522 01:17:29.399 --> 01:17:30.680 So your mind's just but it's. 1523 01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:34.079 So pure, right, like those moments of like that, you know, 1524 01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:37.039 whether it's an athletic flow state or whatever, the combat 1525 01:17:37.119 --> 01:17:41.479 is just so pure that it's don't even hard for 1526 01:17:41.600 --> 01:17:43.000 anything else to be there. 1527 01:17:43.119 --> 01:17:46.479 No, that's a really good point, yeah, because that would 1528 01:17:46.520 --> 01:17:48.439 have that would have definitely been like a safety hasard, 1529 01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:50.720 like I would have been like, okay, I should probably 1530 01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:55.239 do something. So no, it never did, thank god. But 1531 01:17:55.520 --> 01:17:59.000 then so during after the knee surgery, I told my 1532 01:17:59.079 --> 01:18:02.359 flight surgeon that I have these dizzey spells, and I 1533 01:18:02.479 --> 01:18:04.000 was like, I don't. I didn't tell her my history 1534 01:18:04.039 --> 01:18:06.000 of mental health because I was not ready to open 1535 01:18:06.039 --> 01:18:09.199 that can of worms yet. So I was basically sugarcoating 1536 01:18:09.279 --> 01:18:11.000 it if you will, you know. I was like, hey, 1537 01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:13.319 I don't know what's going on. I'm just yeah, I'm 1538 01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:15.079 just having these Disney spells. I don't really know how 1539 01:18:15.159 --> 01:18:17.560 to explain it. So that's exactly what they did. They 1540 01:18:17.600 --> 01:18:19.560 sent me to E and T, got my ears checked out. 1541 01:18:20.960 --> 01:18:23.920 That was all fine. So then to spare you the 1542 01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:26.680 long details, we do head to toe tests right to 1543 01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:31.479 rule out physiological things. But one of those tests was 1544 01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:34.000 a sleep study. So I go for a sleep study 1545 01:18:34.560 --> 01:18:36.880 with a civilian doctor in Savannah that I got referred to, 1546 01:18:37.520 --> 01:18:40.960 and after that sleep study, I got diagnosed with narcolepsy 1547 01:18:41.720 --> 01:18:47.880 as a pilot, right. So yeah, so I was like, okay, 1548 01:18:48.239 --> 01:18:52.159 like one that might answer these Disney spells. Maybe I'm 1549 01:18:52.199 --> 01:18:54.880 like falling asleep having micro naps right and causing my 1550 01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:57.039 body to be like, yeah, you know you were you 1551 01:18:57.079 --> 01:19:00.279 were falling over. I don't know. So there was a 1552 01:19:00.319 --> 01:19:02.960 sense of relief in a weird way because of that, right, 1553 01:19:03.119 --> 01:19:05.720 Like I was like, finally I have an answer for 1554 01:19:05.800 --> 01:19:10.880 what's going on. But then the Army, so my flight 1555 01:19:10.960 --> 01:19:13.359 doc is like, okay, dude, like you can either reclass 1556 01:19:13.439 --> 01:19:15.119 or you get out of the Army, like you can't 1557 01:19:15.159 --> 01:19:18.359 fly with narcole ems where this has never been like 1558 01:19:18.439 --> 01:19:22.600 you never happened, You never nod like that never happened. 1559 01:19:22.680 --> 01:19:25.880 I will say I will say that like during that 1560 01:19:26.199 --> 01:19:29.199 anxiety period, like when I would drive home at like 1561 01:19:29.239 --> 01:19:33.640 three pm, four pm, I was exhausted and having like 1562 01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:36.720 a lot of daytime sleepiness. But I that's also because 1563 01:19:36.760 --> 01:19:38.279 I was so anxious all the time, and I was 1564 01:19:38.319 --> 01:19:41.880 like my body was working overdrive, right, So so in 1565 01:19:42.039 --> 01:19:45.079 my mind the diagnosis was like okay, like it kind 1566 01:19:45.119 --> 01:19:46.800 of makes sense, and I kind of talked myself into 1567 01:19:46.840 --> 01:19:49.520 it making sense. Right, So my flight doc puts in 1568 01:19:49.600 --> 01:19:52.800 a med board and they decline it because the sleep 1569 01:19:52.840 --> 01:19:56.079 study wasn't done by the Army, of course, So I'm 1570 01:19:56.119 --> 01:19:58.840 like all right, sweet, So so now I'm just grounded still. 1571 01:19:59.079 --> 01:20:01.239 And by this time, so this was the end of 1572 01:20:01.520 --> 01:20:03.439 that year. By this time, I knew was recovered, so 1573 01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:05.319 I wasn't like so I kind of felt like a 1574 01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:07.760 back of ass because I was like, you know, I'm grounded, 1575 01:20:07.800 --> 01:20:11.079 but I could fly if I needed to, So do 1576 01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:12.800 the Army sleep study. I have to go to Fort 1577 01:20:12.840 --> 01:20:15.520 Gordon and do all that, and the results came back 1578 01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:18.520 and they say, you have no diagnosable criteria for narcolepsy, 1579 01:20:19.560 --> 01:20:21.880 freaking kidding me. So you're back on flight status. No, 1580 01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:25.640 because they permanently grounded me when I got diagnosed with 1581 01:20:25.720 --> 01:20:30.920 narcolepsy the first time. Rutgers like, Okay, we'll accept this 1582 01:20:31.039 --> 01:20:34.239 diagnosed right permanent army. But the army won't let you 1583 01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:36.439 get out of the army doesn't Yeah, they don't let 1584 01:20:36.479 --> 01:20:39.840 that money exactly. So now I'm in this like even 1585 01:20:39.920 --> 01:20:43.319 worse purgatory of like I don't have a diagnosis, but 1586 01:20:43.399 --> 01:20:46.720 I can't fly because you're still a diagnosis. Yeah, and 1587 01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:49.800 I'm still in the unit. So I am very grateful 1588 01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:51.640 that I was in the one sixtieth because my command 1589 01:20:51.760 --> 01:20:54.239 was incredible throughout all this, like they were they had 1590 01:20:54.319 --> 01:20:57.800 my back, right, and they actually sent me to the 1591 01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:01.119 safety course at Rutger of the ash safety course so 1592 01:21:01.239 --> 01:21:04.479 that I could continue contributing to the unit. So even 1593 01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:06.319 though I was implying, I ended up being basically the 1594 01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:09.640 company safety officer, which is like It's honestly pretty cool 1595 01:21:09.640 --> 01:21:12.800 because you get to like, you get to be pretty autonomous. 1596 01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:15.079 And I still got to go on like TDY trips 1597 01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:18.840 with the company, so I was actively participating without flying, 1598 01:21:18.960 --> 01:21:23.000 which was like a halfway point, I guess. But then 1599 01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:27.800 this leads to me eventually the flight doc eventually saying, 1600 01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:30.760 all right, let's have you talked to the psychologist, you know, 1601 01:21:30.960 --> 01:21:33.600 and just see, like see if there's anything there, right, 1602 01:21:33.600 --> 01:21:35.399 because we've ruled everything else out, we don't really have 1603 01:21:35.439 --> 01:21:39.520 an answer. And after probably two months of talking to her, 1604 01:21:39.640 --> 01:21:42.479 she's like, all right, we're gonna get you to the 1605 01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:45.319 psychiatrist and we're going to try to treat you for 1606 01:21:45.399 --> 01:21:48.279 anxiety and kind of see what happens. And at this 1607 01:21:48.359 --> 01:21:50.359 point I didn't care because I hadn't know. There was 1608 01:21:50.439 --> 01:21:53.600 no consequences at that point. So I do that and 1609 01:21:53.720 --> 01:21:56.520 I get on I don't remember the first one, whatever 1610 01:21:56.680 --> 01:22:00.560 lexapro or something like that, get on pills, and the 1611 01:22:00.680 --> 01:22:05.119 symptoms started to improve, like not dramatically at first, but 1612 01:22:05.359 --> 01:22:09.600 enough to be like, okay, like I think there's something here, right, 1613 01:22:10.199 --> 01:22:15.640 and it didn't. There We went through maybe six different 1614 01:22:15.680 --> 01:22:16.479 cocktails and drugs. 1615 01:22:16.520 --> 01:22:19.199 Has anybody looked at your medical file to see like 1616 01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:23.239 that you had had the ideations before, had anybody. 1617 01:22:23.119 --> 01:22:25.960 Nobody even brought that up. Ever. Nobody brought that up ever, 1618 01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:28.600 because I was honestly, like kind of scared that they would, 1619 01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:31.159 right like, but no nobody ever brought that up, which 1620 01:22:31.159 --> 01:22:32.520 I don't know if it's because it was too far 1621 01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:35.680 back or what. But so, yeah, so I get to 1622 01:22:35.760 --> 01:22:40.359 that point and it's working, and we finally get through 1623 01:22:40.439 --> 01:22:43.319 a bunch of different medications because everyone has side effects 1624 01:22:43.319 --> 01:22:46.399 of course that I hated, and we got to effects 1625 01:22:46.439 --> 01:22:49.199 her and literally, I'm not kidding, like ninety five for 1626 01:22:49.279 --> 01:22:51.119 some of the symptoms went away like it was like 1627 01:22:51.439 --> 01:22:55.399 night and day, and it became it became to the 1628 01:22:55.399 --> 01:22:57.239 point where they were still happening, but they were so 1629 01:22:57.439 --> 01:23:00.760 situational that I could pinpoint exactly to what was happening 1630 01:23:00.800 --> 01:23:03.560 and when they were happening. And once I told the 1631 01:23:03.640 --> 01:23:07.000 psychologist that like, hey, it's happening when I'm in formation, right, 1632 01:23:07.079 --> 01:23:08.439 or it's happening when I have to give a breef, 1633 01:23:08.520 --> 01:23:11.279 or it's happening like when I go to church, or 1634 01:23:11.279 --> 01:23:13.720 when I'm in like a big stadium. She read the 1635 01:23:13.840 --> 01:23:16.560 symptoms of panic disorder and I was like freaking nailed it, 1636 01:23:16.800 --> 01:23:19.239 you know, like I didn't want to accept it, right, 1637 01:23:19.359 --> 01:23:22.439 but then I did. And I'm not gonna lie as 1638 01:23:22.520 --> 01:23:24.840 cheesy as it is, like that's when I started actually 1639 01:23:24.920 --> 01:23:27.359 healing and getting better. Was when I was like, Okay, 1640 01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:30.159 this is it, you know, like, this is actually what's 1641 01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:33.039 happening to me. Because I did not want mental health diagnosis. 1642 01:23:33.239 --> 01:23:35.920 What was the process of the healing for it? Was 1643 01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:39.039 it just the realization or were there other steps that 1644 01:23:39.079 --> 01:23:42.840 you started taking with that. Yeah, So, contrary to most 1645 01:23:42.920 --> 01:23:46.439 people's opinion, I will say the medication was the thing 1646 01:23:46.479 --> 01:23:49.359 that gave me the space to heal. I know there's 1647 01:23:49.399 --> 01:23:51.960 a lot of like hate on it medication for some reason, 1648 01:23:52.079 --> 01:23:54.880 but it did give me the space to heal. Like 1649 01:23:55.079 --> 01:23:58.000 so it allowed me to, like I said, like identify 1650 01:23:58.079 --> 01:24:01.079 the problem and actually pinpoint what's happening instead of this 1651 01:24:01.279 --> 01:24:03.920 it just being like this all day, you know, kind 1652 01:24:03.960 --> 01:24:05.920 of crazy anxiety life, I guess. 1653 01:24:06.439 --> 01:24:09.199 So, yeah, I tell guys to that and try to 1654 01:24:09.279 --> 01:24:13.359 remind them, like, because there is a stigma against prescription 1655 01:24:13.520 --> 01:24:17.680 drugs for some good reasons, I agree, some realistic reasons, 1656 01:24:17.720 --> 01:24:19.760 and you know the way they affect people and guys 1657 01:24:19.800 --> 01:24:21.239 really don't like how it makes them feel. 1658 01:24:21.880 --> 01:24:24.239 And also, like I think the like a lot of 1659 01:24:24.640 --> 01:24:27.479 like V eight like their reliance on it, that they're 1660 01:24:27.520 --> 01:24:29.560 just gonna pump you full of it, and that's gonna 1661 01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:31.279 be that's what you do. 1662 01:24:31.479 --> 01:24:33.319 But the thing is some some of these guys, some 1663 01:24:33.399 --> 01:24:36.239 of these veterans in this case, are hurting so bad 1664 01:24:36.520 --> 01:24:39.119 they need those prescription drugs just so they can get 1665 01:24:39.119 --> 01:24:39.800 to their VA. 1666 01:24:39.760 --> 01:24:41.319 Appointments or whatever else is. 1667 01:24:41.439 --> 01:24:43.399 Yeah, and so like I try to frame it for them, 1668 01:24:43.520 --> 01:24:45.520 like use it as a stepping stone to get to 1669 01:24:45.600 --> 01:24:46.840 the place you want to go, which I. 1670 01:24:46.840 --> 01:24:49.479 Think is that's a great That's exactly what I would 1671 01:24:49.560 --> 01:24:52.560 say too, is like it, like I said, it gave 1672 01:24:52.600 --> 01:24:54.560 me the space, right, it gave me the clarity to 1673 01:24:54.640 --> 01:24:57.720 be like, oh shit, okay, like that's what's happening. And 1674 01:24:57.840 --> 01:25:00.399 then now I can figure out like what I need 1675 01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:03.000 to work on externally so that because now I'm off 1676 01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:05.119 the medication and I don't have those dizzy spells. 1677 01:25:05.199 --> 01:25:05.319 Right. 1678 01:25:05.439 --> 01:25:08.199 So it's one of those things that like it was 1679 01:25:08.399 --> 01:25:10.439 necessary at the time and it was helpful at the time, 1680 01:25:10.520 --> 01:25:12.760 but I don't see it as a long term like 1681 01:25:13.239 --> 01:25:14.800 don't just accept you're going to be on it for 1682 01:25:14.840 --> 01:25:18.319 the next time years, right, Like take it if it helps, 1683 01:25:18.439 --> 01:25:21.079 you know, and then get yourself out of that situation 1684 01:25:21.840 --> 01:25:24.479 by doing other things other than just relying on it. 1685 01:25:24.640 --> 01:25:26.600 So when you when that space was created for you 1686 01:25:26.800 --> 01:25:31.840 and you could sort of see it, were you getting guidance. 1687 01:25:32.399 --> 01:25:34.520 In terms of how to manage it? Did you do 1688 01:25:34.600 --> 01:25:36.199 your own research? How did that happen? 1689 01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:36.560 Yeah? 1690 01:25:36.640 --> 01:25:41.600 So I will attest for and praise my psychologists at 1691 01:25:41.640 --> 01:25:46.159 the one sixtieth so regiment has specific psychologists, and she 1692 01:25:46.399 --> 01:25:50.720 was phenomenal. Like she very much was the Nobs type 1693 01:25:50.720 --> 01:25:53.399 of psychologist that wasn't just trying to you know, like 1694 01:25:53.960 --> 01:25:55.880 say I'll just float with the world, right, Like she 1695 01:25:56.119 --> 01:25:59.720 was very like a practice Yeah, she was very practical. Yeah, 1696 01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:03.279 very much like hey, dude, like why did this happen? 1697 01:26:03.520 --> 01:26:05.840 How do we avoid this happening in the future, and 1698 01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:09.279 how can we like make sure you know, you're you 1699 01:26:09.399 --> 01:26:11.680 have the tools so that if it does happen again 1700 01:26:11.800 --> 01:26:13.840 or you start to see signs that you can get 1701 01:26:13.880 --> 01:26:14.399 yourself out of it. 1702 01:26:14.479 --> 01:26:14.560 Right. 1703 01:26:14.640 --> 01:26:19.239 So, yeah, she was phenomenal. I know not everybody can 1704 01:26:19.279 --> 01:26:21.800 say that about every psychologist out there, but she was. 1705 01:26:22.319 --> 01:26:24.680 I will give her like mad props for that. She 1706 01:26:24.840 --> 01:26:28.359 was phenomenal through that. So what was that process like 1707 01:26:28.439 --> 01:26:30.600 for you? Was like CBT? Yep, A lot of it 1708 01:26:30.720 --> 01:26:35.039 was CBT. Actually most of it was CBT. I will 1709 01:26:35.159 --> 01:26:38.359 say that, like, prior to getting on the meds, we 1710 01:26:38.600 --> 01:26:42.199 tried those things and they didn't work. Okay, So that's 1711 01:26:42.279 --> 01:26:46.119 where I say like the meds were important because when 1712 01:26:46.119 --> 01:26:48.159 you're so deep in it, like if you just go 1713 01:26:48.319 --> 01:26:51.239 meditate and think that's going to fix everything, like good luck, 1714 01:26:51.359 --> 01:26:54.960 you know, at least in my situation, it was not attack. Yeah, 1715 01:26:55.079 --> 01:26:57.560 exactly right. Yeah, And when I tried the breathing exercises, 1716 01:26:57.640 --> 01:26:59.840 that's what it did. Yeah, Like I would try like 1717 01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:02.079 box breathing and all that stuff, right, and everybody's like 1718 01:27:02.600 --> 01:27:04.840 I watched YouTube videos, you know, and everybody's like, this 1719 01:27:05.000 --> 01:27:07.159 is how you carr anxiety, right, if you're having a 1720 01:27:07.199 --> 01:27:09.359 panic attack, just do this, And I would do it, 1721 01:27:09.399 --> 01:27:11.560 and I'm like that's bullshit, Like that didn't do anything. 1722 01:27:11.640 --> 01:27:14.279 That just made me think about my anxiety more and 1723 01:27:14.399 --> 01:27:18.520 be more pissed off. So yeah, I mean, but the 1724 01:27:19.079 --> 01:27:22.720 irony of that is like now those tools work, Like 1725 01:27:22.920 --> 01:27:24.640 now that I'm out of that and now that I'm 1726 01:27:24.680 --> 01:27:27.600 off meds, Like, now those tools work because I have 1727 01:27:27.720 --> 01:27:28.399 a clear enough. 1728 01:27:28.319 --> 01:27:31.000 Mind that I can actually use them, you know. So 1729 01:27:31.880 --> 01:27:34.119 so what was that So you take the menage, you 1730 01:27:34.199 --> 01:27:36.640 start the CBT, you start these things. What was that 1731 01:27:36.760 --> 01:27:38.039 sort of process like for you? 1732 01:27:39.279 --> 01:27:43.680 So it was a good it was about a year 1733 01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:48.039 actually process from were you still an active the whole time? Yes? Okay, 1734 01:27:48.159 --> 01:27:51.359 So I got medically retired in May of twenty twenty three. Okay, 1735 01:27:51.560 --> 01:27:55.199 so once I got and I got the panic disorder diagnosis, 1736 01:27:56.199 --> 01:27:58.520 I think in May of twenty two, So I think 1737 01:27:58.560 --> 01:28:01.279 it was a full almost a full year of me 1738 01:28:03.079 --> 01:28:05.119 basically trying to get back on my feet and get 1739 01:28:05.319 --> 01:28:08.399 figure out what's happening and whether I'm going to get 1740 01:28:08.399 --> 01:28:10.520 medically retired or not right, because I was trying to 1741 01:28:10.560 --> 01:28:14.680 get back in the cockpit still. But it did get 1742 01:28:14.680 --> 01:28:19.760 to the point where she was like, well, really me, 1743 01:28:20.239 --> 01:28:23.520 I made the decision to get medically retired. So I 1744 01:28:23.600 --> 01:28:25.720 got to the point where I was like, these I 1745 01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:27.560 need to be on these meds. And I couldn't fly 1746 01:28:27.680 --> 01:28:29.960 while I was on the meds. So well, you can, 1747 01:28:30.079 --> 01:28:32.319 but it's a pain of the ass. And I was 1748 01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:34.560 I was just at the point where I was like 1749 01:28:34.600 --> 01:28:37.640 I'm freaking done, Like I've gone, I've put myself through 1750 01:28:37.680 --> 01:28:39.520 so much shit, Like I just need to be done 1751 01:28:39.640 --> 01:28:45.640 and get out. So that last year was me basically 1752 01:28:45.960 --> 01:28:48.439 trying getting medically retired. So it was about a year. 1753 01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:53.039 But the process to your question was it was a 1754 01:28:53.119 --> 01:28:56.359 lot of CBT. It was a lot of It was 1755 01:28:56.359 --> 01:29:00.399 a lot of digging into like the why of like 1756 01:29:00.600 --> 01:29:05.039 everything kind of which like it's a big not right, yeah, yeah, 1757 01:29:05.199 --> 01:29:08.159 like why are you? Like what do you want to 1758 01:29:08.199 --> 01:29:09.359 do as a dad? What do you want to do? 1759 01:29:09.479 --> 01:29:12.199 His husband? Like? It was a lot more like purpose finding, 1760 01:29:12.279 --> 01:29:14.600 which was weird because I wasn't expecting that, but yeah, 1761 01:29:14.680 --> 01:29:16.000 now that I look back on it, that's kind of 1762 01:29:16.039 --> 01:29:18.359 what it was, was like why are you doing all 1763 01:29:18.399 --> 01:29:19.560 of this? Why are you doing anything? 1764 01:29:19.720 --> 01:29:22.640 You know? And like? And that was good because I 1765 01:29:22.720 --> 01:29:24.720 never really stopped to think about that before. You know, 1766 01:29:24.760 --> 01:29:26.880 I was just kind of knowing hud real quick. For 1767 01:29:26.960 --> 01:29:29.840 people who might not know CBT is cognitive behavioral therapy, 1768 01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:31.079 just just throw that out there. 1769 01:29:31.479 --> 01:29:34.399 What did you ever tell her about like the ideations 1770 01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:38.359 that you had had? Yeah, once I once I got 1771 01:29:38.399 --> 01:29:41.199 permanently grounded, So once I had that narclepsy diagnosis. The 1772 01:29:41.239 --> 01:29:44.680 gloves were off, I said, skirwt, like I'm I'm telling 1773 01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:49.279 her everything, and that also attributes to her actually being 1774 01:29:49.319 --> 01:29:52.479 able to diagnose me something and like actually be like okay, 1775 01:29:52.680 --> 01:29:55.560 like that everything kind of makes sense now that you're 1776 01:29:55.600 --> 01:29:59.520 talking about, you know, the irony or One crazy thing though, 1777 01:29:59.640 --> 01:30:03.640 is when I like talked about those dizzey spells, nobody 1778 01:30:03.720 --> 01:30:07.239 even brought up anxiety being an option, you know, like 1779 01:30:07.359 --> 01:30:10.159 it seems kind of we literally did head to toe 1780 01:30:10.479 --> 01:30:14.560 tests of everything else and anxiety never came up, and 1781 01:30:15.159 --> 01:30:17.199 it didn't it wasn't to the point where we ruled 1782 01:30:17.199 --> 01:30:19.760 everything out. So that was an interesting thing because I've 1783 01:30:19.760 --> 01:30:22.520 talked to multiple people since I've like actually spoken about 1784 01:30:22.520 --> 01:30:24.920 this who are like, dude, I've had the same dizzy 1785 01:30:24.920 --> 01:30:27.319 spells almost, like, how is this not like a common 1786 01:30:27.399 --> 01:30:28.760 knowledge from doctors? You know? 1787 01:30:29.079 --> 01:30:30.760 Well, I also think though, that you know, when you 1788 01:30:30.920 --> 01:30:36.159 when you talk about panic or anxiety, that unfortunately that 1789 01:30:36.279 --> 01:30:39.600 there is a certain image of a person who suffers 1790 01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:43.159 from panic or anxiety that comes to mind, and it's 1791 01:30:43.319 --> 01:30:46.960 not some guy flying you know, black hawks through a rock. 1792 01:30:47.079 --> 01:30:47.960 Yeah. That's a good point. 1793 01:30:48.399 --> 01:30:50.199 That's a good point you think of, Yeah, you think 1794 01:30:50.239 --> 01:30:53.439 of like some some victim, right, That's not that's scared 1795 01:30:53.439 --> 01:30:54.840 to leave the vapors. 1796 01:30:55.560 --> 01:31:00.720 It's you know yea. So yeah, And to be honest, 1797 01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:02.800 I didn't want it to be sure, you know, like 1798 01:31:02.920 --> 01:31:05.439 I wanted it to be like my ears were jacked 1799 01:31:05.520 --> 01:31:05.960 up or something. 1800 01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:08.359 That way I could justify it because panic or anxiety 1801 01:31:08.439 --> 01:31:12.600 that that sounds like weakness. It's not exact, but it sounds. 1802 01:31:12.359 --> 01:31:15.520 Like right exactly, yeah, and that's the Yeah, that's one 1803 01:31:15.520 --> 01:31:20.800 of those stigmas, right yeah, yeah, good point. And so 1804 01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:22.680 what was the next step for you and your family 1805 01:31:22.720 --> 01:31:26.720 after being medically retired? So I've I am fortunate that 1806 01:31:26.920 --> 01:31:30.560 I had this nerd side to me that always liked 1807 01:31:30.600 --> 01:31:33.760 financial stuff. So I like grew up listening to Dave 1808 01:31:33.840 --> 01:31:35.720 Ramsey and all that stuff, and I just had this like, 1809 01:31:36.039 --> 01:31:37.520 I don't know, it's one of those guys that just 1810 01:31:37.640 --> 01:31:39.880 like that would be my podcast that I listened to, 1811 01:31:39.960 --> 01:31:42.520 you know, we're like personal finance stuff. So when I 1812 01:31:42.600 --> 01:31:44.640 found out I was getting medically retires, is about it. 1813 01:31:44.720 --> 01:31:47.760 I had about a year actual runway before I got out, 1814 01:31:47.800 --> 01:31:50.399 which was a blessing. That's when I was like, all right, 1815 01:31:50.840 --> 01:31:52.880 I'm going to go be a financial planner, and I 1816 01:31:53.000 --> 01:31:57.000 started doing all my coursework and getting all my certifications, 1817 01:31:57.399 --> 01:31:59.239 so that literally when I got out of the Army, 1818 01:31:59.279 --> 01:32:02.560 I had my certify Financial Planner exam done and I 1819 01:32:02.680 --> 01:32:04.439 was just ready to kind of hit the ground running, 1820 01:32:05.760 --> 01:32:09.880 and I networked my way through LinkedIn, so people transitioning 1821 01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:12.439 out there. One of the best things that I ever 1822 01:32:12.600 --> 01:32:15.399 did was actually like reach out to people on LinkedIn, 1823 01:32:15.520 --> 01:32:18.239 which went against everything I believed as a soft guy, right, 1824 01:32:19.000 --> 01:32:22.800 no social media, but I got the balls to like 1825 01:32:22.920 --> 01:32:25.960 actually message people that were on LinkedIn doing what I 1826 01:32:26.039 --> 01:32:29.079 wanted to do, and we were looking at Charlotte. Yeah, 1827 01:32:29.680 --> 01:32:33.239 and fortunately one of the guys that I messaged was like, Hey, 1828 01:32:33.920 --> 01:32:36.159 I started a firm and we need advisors. Do you 1829 01:32:36.199 --> 01:32:38.560 want to come work for us? And I was like, hell, yeah, 1830 01:32:38.640 --> 01:32:41.640 that's amazing. So right off the bat, I was able 1831 01:32:41.680 --> 01:32:44.439 to land a job in Charlotte and kind of it 1832 01:32:44.600 --> 01:32:47.520 wasn't like a salary job though, so it was he 1833 01:32:47.600 --> 01:32:49.640 would chill. It was what you kill. Yeah. It was 1834 01:32:49.680 --> 01:32:52.479 basically like you start with nothing, you know, have clients, 1835 01:32:52.520 --> 01:32:53.920 so you got to build it. It was kind of 1836 01:32:53.960 --> 01:32:56.960 big with when you've got a family. Yeah, Luckily I 1837 01:32:57.039 --> 01:33:01.359 did have like the military benefits. They weren't like full paycheck, right, 1838 01:33:01.399 --> 01:33:03.920 they wouldn't like cover all my expenses, but I did 1839 01:33:04.000 --> 01:33:07.039 have like the disability paycheck and stuff like that to 1840 01:33:07.159 --> 01:33:09.359 kind of bridge the gap. And then some savings built up. 1841 01:33:11.000 --> 01:33:13.399 But yeah, and then after about a year working for 1842 01:33:13.960 --> 01:33:17.680 that firm, I met another guy in Charlotte who was 1843 01:33:18.479 --> 01:33:20.960 starting his own firm and he said, Hey, do you 1844 01:33:21.000 --> 01:33:23.680 want to come partner with me at this firm? 1845 01:33:23.720 --> 01:33:26.479 And that's where I am now, and it's called Kaiden's 1846 01:33:26.520 --> 01:33:31.279 Wealth Partners And what for anybody who needs a financial 1847 01:33:31.319 --> 01:33:35.479 advisor in Northline. We're Charlotte, but we were virtual now 1848 01:33:35.840 --> 01:33:37.520 virtual like anybody anywhere. 1849 01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:42.680 What's the name again, Kayden's Wealth Partners, Caden's Wealth Partners. Yeah, 1850 01:33:42.880 --> 01:33:46.479 and it's cool because I I work with veterans, Like 1851 01:33:46.560 --> 01:33:48.560 that's my like niche Like I just love it, you know, 1852 01:33:48.720 --> 01:33:50.880 Like I tried to go like the ultra high networth 1853 01:33:50.960 --> 01:33:54.439 and all the cliche advisor you know routes, and then 1854 01:33:54.800 --> 01:33:56.800 most of my most of the people that were coming 1855 01:33:56.840 --> 01:34:00.439 to me were from my network, like naturally right first, 1856 01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:02.720 and I was like I love this, Like I love 1857 01:34:02.840 --> 01:34:05.319 working with them, you know. So so yeah, that's what 1858 01:34:05.359 --> 01:34:08.760 I'm niched in too. It's fun. And how did this 1859 01:34:08.960 --> 01:34:11.640 book project come about? Stigma, which is going to be 1860 01:34:11.720 --> 01:34:16.119 out in October twenty First, good question. So when I 1861 01:34:16.359 --> 01:34:22.520 was getting out, I none of my peers knew why 1862 01:34:22.600 --> 01:34:25.119 I was getting out. They all I stuck with the 1863 01:34:25.199 --> 01:34:29.279 narcolepsi diagnosis the entire time because that was the easy button, right, 1864 01:34:29.640 --> 01:34:32.920 that was the non stigma button, right of like grounded 1865 01:34:32.960 --> 01:34:34.399 for it, and I was grounded for it, right, So 1866 01:34:35.279 --> 01:34:38.199 I did get diagnosed with it, you know, and that's 1867 01:34:38.279 --> 01:34:40.600 what I felt. I was like, Okay, like I can 1868 01:34:40.760 --> 01:34:42.680 tell people this because that doesn't mean there's something wrong 1869 01:34:42.720 --> 01:34:46.239 with my head. Right, So all of that happened to me, 1870 01:34:47.000 --> 01:34:51.039 all of these freaking five plus years of just grunting 1871 01:34:51.079 --> 01:34:54.560 it out right and dealing with this and suffering through that. 1872 01:34:55.000 --> 01:34:58.199 Once I finally got out and told I think I 1873 01:34:58.319 --> 01:35:01.039 told my brother about it first and he was still 1874 01:35:01.119 --> 01:35:04.199 in and he started crying and he was like, and 1875 01:35:04.319 --> 01:35:06.119 he's not like he's a tough dude, you know, like 1876 01:35:06.600 --> 01:35:08.279 he could kick my ass, to be honest, and he's 1877 01:35:08.319 --> 01:35:09.880 my little brother. So that's saying a lot for me 1878 01:35:09.960 --> 01:35:12.800 to admit that, but he started crying and I was 1879 01:35:12.880 --> 01:35:15.960 like the hell, you know, and he's like, dude, why 1880 01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:18.640 didn't you tell me? You know? I'm like I couldn't. Man, 1881 01:35:18.680 --> 01:35:21.439 how am I Like? I couldn't tell anybody? Right? He's 1882 01:35:21.520 --> 01:35:25.159 like that's a problem, and I'm like, yeah, it is, dude, 1883 01:35:25.199 --> 01:35:28.119 I know, but I just didn't feel like I could so, 1884 01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:30.920 like I couldn't even tell my own brother, you know 1885 01:35:30.960 --> 01:35:33.439 who I'm like closest with more than anybody in the world. 1886 01:35:33.560 --> 01:35:36.600 I was like, this is this is a cultural problem 1887 01:35:36.840 --> 01:35:40.319 that like needs to be talked about. So that's kind 1888 01:35:40.359 --> 01:35:43.880 of where I was like, screwt, I'm gonna talk about 1889 01:35:43.920 --> 01:35:45.800 it and I'm gonna just lay it all out there 1890 01:35:45.840 --> 01:35:49.239 and see what happens. Like it was terrifying initially the 1891 01:35:49.319 --> 01:35:50.880 first time I talked about it. I was like, dude, 1892 01:35:50.920 --> 01:35:53.000 I have no idea how people are going to react 1893 01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:55.319 to this, you know, like, yeah, because those stigmas were 1894 01:35:55.359 --> 01:35:57.479 still there, Like is my reputation going to be gone 1895 01:35:57.520 --> 01:36:01.800 if I mentioned this? You know? But the surprisingly, man, 1896 01:36:01.880 --> 01:36:04.560 it's been the opposite, and I, yeah. 1897 01:36:04.640 --> 01:36:07.239 It's so weird to isn't, Because like the civilian world 1898 01:36:07.239 --> 01:36:11.039 has gotten to a point I think where talking about 1899 01:36:11.800 --> 01:36:14.920 whether it's panic or anxiety or whatever, you're talking whatever 1900 01:36:15.079 --> 01:36:17.439 things you have going on with your strength, like they're 1901 01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:22.039 almost badges of honor. And then we're civilian conversations now 1902 01:36:22.640 --> 01:36:26.279 right where with the military or veterans and stuff like that, 1903 01:36:26.680 --> 01:36:27.960 or maybe men in general. 1904 01:36:28.000 --> 01:36:31.560 I don't know, Yeah, but it's still a very like yeah, 1905 01:36:32.239 --> 01:36:34.039 because it's like, I don't know, I feel like it's 1906 01:36:34.119 --> 01:36:37.359 like you feel like you're exposing weakness, you know what 1907 01:36:37.399 --> 01:36:41.159 I mean, even though you're not. Like to be honest, 1908 01:36:41.960 --> 01:36:44.960 the most courageous thing I did was talk about it. Yeah, 1909 01:36:45.000 --> 01:36:47.439 as ironic as that is, you know, and as scary 1910 01:36:47.479 --> 01:36:51.119 as it was, Like it it took balls to speak 1911 01:36:51.199 --> 01:36:54.479 up about it, and like it's been super rewarding, Yeah, 1912 01:36:54.760 --> 01:36:59.119 and my hope is that more people will come to 1913 01:36:59.199 --> 01:37:02.359 that realization, you know that like dude, I was a 1914 01:37:02.479 --> 01:37:04.760 zombie for six years of my life, you know, like 1915 01:37:04.920 --> 01:37:07.359 I was not a present dad or husband, Like yeah, 1916 01:37:07.640 --> 01:37:09.680 just sucks, you know. And so what's the book going 1917 01:37:09.720 --> 01:37:12.199 to be about. It's your story, so it's it's going 1918 01:37:12.279 --> 01:37:14.119 to be my story, but it's also going to be 1919 01:37:14.199 --> 01:37:20.159 deconstructing some of those stigmas and saying showing why they're why. 1920 01:37:20.520 --> 01:37:23.520 Some of them do have validity, right, because there are, 1921 01:37:24.119 --> 01:37:26.119 at least in my situation as a pilot, there were 1922 01:37:26.159 --> 01:37:29.079 repercussions for going on medication or doing that right, So 1923 01:37:29.399 --> 01:37:33.279 there are some that have validity. But the primary objective 1924 01:37:33.359 --> 01:37:37.000 with it is one to deconstruct the stigma and then 1925 01:37:37.119 --> 01:37:41.319 two to show people that you can be a freaking 1926 01:37:41.399 --> 01:37:43.800 stud and deal with this stuff and it's okay, right, 1927 01:37:43.880 --> 01:37:45.840 it doesn't make you like less of a man or 1928 01:37:46.239 --> 01:37:49.279 anything like that. So those are the big objectives, and 1929 01:37:49.359 --> 01:37:54.199 then hopefully my my big overaarching mission is too and 1930 01:37:54.279 --> 01:37:58.000 this is a really big mission, but to ultimately lower 1931 01:37:58.119 --> 01:38:02.439 the suicide rate because like you've loved, I'm sure you 1932 01:38:02.479 --> 01:38:04.000 guys have both lost friends to it, and I have 1933 01:38:04.119 --> 01:38:07.359 two and they were studs, the people that I can 1934 01:38:07.399 --> 01:38:09.520 think of literally off the top of my head, and 1935 01:38:09.960 --> 01:38:11.680 I know they were dealing with some of this, and 1936 01:38:11.760 --> 01:38:13.880 I know they were dealing with just the fear of 1937 01:38:14.399 --> 01:38:16.520 what if I expose this right, And they got to 1938 01:38:16.600 --> 01:38:18.840 the point where it was like it was easier for 1939 01:38:18.920 --> 01:38:20.920 them to do it then to tell somebody about it, 1940 01:38:21.199 --> 01:38:23.960 you know, which sucks, but yeah, that's the reality. So 1941 01:38:24.640 --> 01:38:29.479 that's my overall like million you know mile mission is 1942 01:38:29.560 --> 01:38:30.960 to go lower those stats. 1943 01:38:31.159 --> 01:38:33.159 And so when is Stigma going to be out again? 1944 01:38:33.399 --> 01:38:36.640 October twenty first, So please if you are listening to this, 1945 01:38:37.439 --> 01:38:39.119 you know, there's not a there's not a pre order 1946 01:38:39.159 --> 01:38:41.479 link out yet or not yet. So if you are 1947 01:38:41.560 --> 01:38:44.159 listening to this, please put that in your phone as 1948 01:38:44.199 --> 01:38:48.119 a reminder. October twenty first, Uh, for stigma. 1949 01:38:49.680 --> 01:38:50.600 You know, you get this. 1950 01:38:51.159 --> 01:38:53.720 Yeah, these are things that you know, and even if 1951 01:38:53.760 --> 01:38:56.640 it's not something for you, if it gives you awareness 1952 01:38:57.199 --> 01:38:58.920 and you don't even have to be a veteran or 1953 01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:02.680 no veterans, this is these are these are issues and 1954 01:39:02.920 --> 01:39:05.960 and it'll give you, you know, a place to start, 1955 01:39:06.439 --> 01:39:09.279 whether for yourself or for somebody who you know. 1956 01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:14.399 Yeah, thanks, Yeah, I mean it's it's something that should 1957 01:39:14.520 --> 01:39:17.479 just be talked about, you know, absolutely and not be 1958 01:39:17.760 --> 01:39:19.239 like dude, you're a pussy for a saying that. 1959 01:39:19.359 --> 01:39:22.319 Absolutely. I just think that's dumb and that's literally killing 1960 01:39:22.319 --> 01:39:25.279 people exactly. It pisses me. Yeah, well, you know, and 1961 01:39:25.359 --> 01:39:29.439 it's unfortunate because ever since Vietnam, you know, every portrayal 1962 01:39:29.600 --> 01:39:33.640 of military post traumatic stress or military mental health has 1963 01:39:33.760 --> 01:39:37.279 been post traumatic stress of you know, uh, somebody having 1964 01:39:37.359 --> 01:39:41.880 flashbacks or whether it's the punishment, like it's it's always 1965 01:39:41.960 --> 01:39:47.399 this really horrible uh representation of what veteranent mental health 1966 01:39:47.439 --> 01:39:47.800 looks like. 1967 01:39:48.000 --> 01:39:50.600 Yeah, no that's true. I mean even in my situation, 1968 01:39:50.720 --> 01:39:54.720 I got diagnosed with anxiety, PTSD, depression, and panic disorder, 1969 01:39:54.880 --> 01:39:56.439 Like they just lumped it all together because they're like, 1970 01:39:56.439 --> 01:39:57.760 I don't know what to do with this guy. Yeah, 1971 01:39:57.840 --> 01:40:00.640 you know, so it's like, yeah, it's too your point, right, 1972 01:40:00.760 --> 01:40:03.640 Like everybody just thinks PTSD, but there's so much more. 1973 01:40:03.680 --> 01:40:07.800 And even though the even PTSD is not represented in 1974 01:40:08.319 --> 01:40:11.359 modern culture the way it actually really is. Yeah, exactly, 1975 01:40:11.359 --> 01:40:13.920 you know, like we're a danger to everybody around us. No, 1976 01:40:14.000 --> 01:40:18.640 you're just a danger to yourself, right for sure. So yeah, 1977 01:40:18.720 --> 01:40:22.279 so Stigma October twenty first will be released like on 1978 01:40:22.359 --> 01:40:24.439 Amazon and all the it'll be everywhere, okay, everywhere you 1979 01:40:24.479 --> 01:40:25.039 can buy a book. 1980 01:40:26.439 --> 01:40:28.920 Yeah. Is there anything that we've left out or anything 1981 01:40:28.960 --> 01:40:32.720 that where people find you? So? Good? Good point? Uh. 1982 01:40:32.800 --> 01:40:35.920 The Nico Kelly dot com is my website. 1983 01:40:36.560 --> 01:40:38.680 I got Instagram and YouTube links on there too, so 1984 01:40:38.760 --> 01:40:40.800 I've got a YouTube channel where I'm talking about this stuff. 1985 01:40:41.720 --> 01:40:43.680 And then I do want to do a nonprofit plug 1986 01:40:43.720 --> 01:40:47.239 if you guys are cool, sure, absolutely so. A former 1987 01:40:47.279 --> 01:40:50.880 one sixtieth pilot started a nonprofit in Nashville called the 1988 01:40:51.000 --> 01:40:54.039 ARC Health Foundation, and I'm on the board of it. 1989 01:40:54.199 --> 01:40:58.119 And essentially the the goal of it is to get 1990 01:40:58.119 --> 01:41:01.279 around these stigmas while they still exist. So it's a 1991 01:41:01.520 --> 01:41:06.199 human performance optimization center geared towards brain health, right, so, 1992 01:41:06.359 --> 01:41:09.159 geared towards non medicinal ways to treat mental health. So 1993 01:41:09.720 --> 01:41:12.520 I think, like all those modalities that like Andrew Huberman 1994 01:41:12.600 --> 01:41:15.439 talks about, that's what it's focused on. It's going to 1995 01:41:15.439 --> 01:41:18.760 be absolutely free to veterans and active duty So it's 1996 01:41:19.199 --> 01:41:25.479 our health Foundation A good question, yeah, r K Health Foundation. Yeah. 1997 01:41:26.000 --> 01:41:29.960 So it's going to be a completely stigma free place, right, 1998 01:41:30.039 --> 01:41:31.760 Like somebody can just show up there and say, hey, 1999 01:41:32.560 --> 01:41:35.600 like I want to go do this modality, right, and 2000 01:41:35.680 --> 01:41:38.279 they don't have to say like because I'm depressed or 2001 01:41:38.279 --> 01:41:41.239 because I'm dealing with this, right, it can just be like, hey, 2002 01:41:41.239 --> 01:41:43.039 I want to get better at this or whatever, you know. 2003 01:41:43.279 --> 01:41:46.560 So it's taking all that brain science and brain health 2004 01:41:46.600 --> 01:41:50.239 that Hebreman's been spearheading and really putting the awareness out 2005 01:41:50.640 --> 01:41:53.079 and putting them all together in one facility for active 2006 01:41:53.159 --> 01:41:55.840 duty and veterans, right, it'll be really cool. Yeah, it's 2007 01:41:55.840 --> 01:41:59.760 still in the startup phase, so we don't have the facilities. 2008 01:42:00.159 --> 01:42:02.439 We need three hundred k four facilities to actually be 2009 01:42:02.479 --> 01:42:04.239 fully funded, and the first one is going to be 2010 01:42:04.319 --> 01:42:07.399 rolled out at Fort Campbell's. So yeah, that's awesome, pumped 2011 01:42:07.399 --> 01:42:07.680 about it. 2012 01:42:07.840 --> 01:42:10.079 And so should we start the gofund me for you 2013 01:42:10.119 --> 01:42:17.479 guys or yeah, so from are more affluent viewers and 2014 01:42:17.560 --> 01:42:20.199 listeners or kelth is like over three hundred k of 2015 01:42:20.359 --> 01:42:21.760 endownmas right or whatever they call it. 2016 01:42:21.840 --> 01:42:29.520 Donations, donations, thank you text deductible donating exactly right, Nicky, 2017 01:42:29.840 --> 01:42:32.840 Nico Kelly. Great, and my all my handles are at 2018 01:42:32.920 --> 01:42:37.760 the y and they're all they're all in the description. Yes, 2019 01:42:37.960 --> 01:42:41.840 so thank you Nick for sharing your story with us. Yeah. 2020 01:42:41.920 --> 01:42:43.640 I know some of these stories aren't pleasant to like 2021 01:42:43.720 --> 01:42:46.680 kind of relive, but for the reasons you're well aware if. 2022 01:42:46.560 --> 01:42:49.640 It's important to get that stuff out there too. God 2023 01:42:49.720 --> 01:42:52.319 only knows who's watching these things. I mean, all types 2024 01:42:52.359 --> 01:42:54.640 of people watch it. People who I hear. 2025 01:42:54.520 --> 01:42:57.439 From them sometimes were like and this podcast got me 2026 01:42:57.520 --> 01:42:59.079 through like a hard time in my life. It's like 2027 01:42:59.159 --> 01:43:02.000 I never thought that people engage with it in that way. 2028 01:43:03.000 --> 01:43:05.319 But I'm glad if it helps somebody. I hope so too. 2029 01:43:05.399 --> 01:43:07.199 You know, all this message gets out there to folks, 2030 01:43:08.600 --> 01:43:11.079 so yeah, thank you again, and we'll make an announcement 2031 01:43:11.159 --> 01:43:11.680 on the show. 2032 01:43:11.479 --> 01:43:13.840 When the book comes out also let folks know and 2033 01:43:14.279 --> 01:43:16.319 for everyone else, we'll see you guys next week. 2034 01:43:17.199 --> 01:43:19.680 Take care out there, and if you are not a 2035 01:43:19.760 --> 01:43:21.039 member of our patreon. 2036 01:43:20.680 --> 01:43:23.079 You might want to join to hear this really salacious 2037 01:43:23.159 --> 01:43:24.960 story about how he met his wife. 2038 01:43:25.359 --> 01:43:31.800 It's spicy, spicy. Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just want 2039 01:43:31.840 --> 01:43:33.319 to talk to you for a moment about how you 2040 01:43:33.399 --> 01:43:36.159 can support the show. 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