WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:37.399 Weirding Way Media. 2 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:50.039 Hello and welcome to episode one hundred and thirty five 3 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:52.520 of the Film Entryes podcast. I'm Jamie Benning, your host, 4 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:55.799 and this time I'm talking with cinema historian and friend 5 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:58.840 friend of the podcast as well, Nigel Smith, who runs 6 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:02.200 the brilliant website Memory Palaces and leads walking tours through 7 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:06.959 London's forgotten picture houses. Nigel has spent years unearthing the 8 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:09.120 stories of buildings that many of us walk past every 9 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:12.519 day without realizing that they once housed thousands of cinema goers. 10 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:16.879 Could be a coffee shop, a church, a Bingohall supermarket, 11 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.680 all of them, in another life were palaces of the movies. 12 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:23.400 And what fascinates me about Nigel's work is the way 13 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:27.640 he pieces together not only the just the architecture and 14 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:30.920 the dates when things happened, but the culture of cinema 15 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:34.719 going itself. He digs into archives, old trade papers and 16 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:38.879 even community anecdotes to bring back the lived experience of 17 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.480 going to the pictures. As we used to say here 18 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:44.159 in the UK, or at least my parents' generation said 19 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:48.079 that in the nineteen thirties through the nineteen fifties, people 20 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:51.000 went week in, week out, often with little care for 21 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:54.959 what was showing. It was about the ritual, the social space, 22 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:55.920 the scale. 23 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:56.079 Of the event. 24 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.400 And you compare that with today's selective and sometimes prohibitatively 25 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:03.599 expensive trips to the multiplex and you start to see 26 00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:06.480 how much has shifted in a relatively short space of time. 27 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:10.400 In our conversation, Nigel shares how he weaves these discoveries 28 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:14.080 into his tours, from the grand Egyptian revival facade of 29 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:17.759 the Carlton in Islington to smaller cinemas, with stories of 30 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:22.840 kids clubs, eccentric managers and community football matches. We also 31 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.960 talk about what's lost when these buildings disappear, how they 32 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:30.439 often find stranger after lives, and why repertory and community 33 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:33.159 cinemas might be the most hopeful path for the future 34 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:36.560 of film going in London. It's a wide ranging chat 35 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:40.560 about architecture, memory and the social life of cinema, but 36 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:42.680 it's one I hope you enjoy it now. As I said, 37 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:45.080 Nigel is a friend. He's been on the podcast before, 38 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:48.560 but he's got this new tour inside the old Carlton 39 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:51.520 Cinema in Islington. And it turns out my mother in 40 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:56.319 law was a patron of that very cinema. She lived 41 00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:58.879 in the area when she was a kid, and yeah, 42 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.039 she's I haven't sent the photos that I took while 43 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:02.759 I was at the tour with Nigel yet, but I'm 44 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:05.560 going to do that soon and you're gonna hear snippets 45 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:09.560 from that tour as well as my interview with Nigel. 46 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:11.879 So I followed him around whilst he was doing the tour, 47 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.400 miked him up, and I'm not going to give away 48 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:17.199 the whole content of the tour, but just to give 49 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.159 you a little bit of flavor in between the interview segments. 50 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:24.319 So here's my chat with Nigel Smith, cinema historian, and 51 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:26.000 I'll be back at the end for a bit more jabbering. 52 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:49.000 On morning, morning, morning, Hi everybody. 53 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:54.960 Well, first of all, it is absolutely lovely for fee 54 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:59.439 you all this morning for this tour, by my reckoning, 55 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:03.439 I think this is the first time there's been an actual, ever, 56 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:06.800 a sort of a proper tour of this building that 57 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:08.800 is more than just sort of like showing people on 58 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:10.680 open house and having a little round, but is also 59 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:15.479 trying to attempt to tell the story of the building 60 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:18.920 as well. So you are this is like the not 61 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:20.920 quite as glamorous as a premiere, but this is like 62 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:25.920 a premiere, and as you can see in front of you, 63 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:32.720 you're standing in front of the former Carlton Cinema, opened 64 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:37.959 in nineteen thirty as a cinema Grade two listed building. 65 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:43.600 It's been a Grade two listed building since nineteen seventy four. 66 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.639 And now a church. 67 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:52.800 So the reason I'm wearing this this microphone is my 68 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:56.079 friend Jamie Benning here has a brilliant podcast, and you're 69 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.560 all film fans, I'm sure, brilliant podcast called called Filmumentaries 70 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:03.800 where he interviews a lot of people who've been involved 71 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:07.439 in production of films. He's just back. He was at 72 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:10.839 he was on Martha's Vineyard, the location for the film 73 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:14.759 Jewels for the fiftieth anniversary weekend of Jaws, hanging out 74 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:18.560 with Richard Dreyfus and Joe Alves, a production designer who 75 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:21.600 Jamie's making a documentary about. So hopefully Jamie's going to 76 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:23.800 make a little bonus episode out of this tour, which 77 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:27.279 is why I'm wearing the microphone. 78 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:28.839 Now. 79 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:33.240 When you first started researching London's cinema history, was there 80 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:35.480 a particular building or a story that made you think 81 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:37.560 I have to share this with others. 82 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:39.000 I started. 83 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:42.879 Getting into the cinema history, and the walking tours was 84 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:47.959 through Islington because it was the area closest to where 85 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:52.759 I lived, and the buildings that were the sort of 86 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:56.879 the really nice surprises. In Islington. There are two coffee shops, 87 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:01.240 Cafe Nero and a Starbucks ten minutes walk from each other, 88 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:05.480 both of which used to be cinemas, which nobody would 89 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:09.639 barely know, and that was definitely a hook. And then 90 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:13.920 when you discover both of these cinemas opened before World 91 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.879 War One and they had this really well one matter 92 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.240 of very short history, one had a much longer history. 93 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:21.720 So that was definitely a spark. And then when I 94 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:26.120 got interested in doing walking tours, it's like the challenge 95 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.000 is figuring out how do you make a is there 96 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.920 a story that's all within a nice walking distance between 97 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:34.480 an hour and a half and and two hours. But yeah, 98 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:38.240 so the Starbucks on up Street and the Cafe near 99 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:41.720 on up Street were there too, sort of we're definitely catalysts. 100 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.959 But then you know, in that same area you do 101 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:50.120 have this building, the Carlton, with this incredible Egyptian facade. Yeah, 102 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:52.240 that is so distinctive, You're like brilliant. Okay, well, if 103 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:54.360 you can incorporate that, and when I do the walking 104 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:58.279 tour and that's the that's the final stop. I was like, Wow, 105 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:02.839 let's save the best building to last. Opened it in 106 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:08.000 nineteen thirty. The architect is an architect called George Coles, 107 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:14.240 one of the most prolific architects of cinemas in Britain. 108 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:16.600 It's now a church. One of the biggest cinemas ever 109 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:19.399 built in this country. I mean, one of the most 110 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:22.480 bonkers buildings on Essex Road, but one of those bonkers 111 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:26.720 buildings in London. You know, I would argue. 112 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:28.120 Yeah, it's pretty incredible that facade. 113 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:30.879 I mean, it's you could expect that almost to be 114 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.120 on Sunset Boulevard or something, you know, down the Hollywood 115 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:36.800 Walk of Fame or something like that. It's that Egyptian 116 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:41.519 design and very grand and it it's a completely different 117 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:45.240 time for cinema goers, a time that existed before we 118 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:47.879 were born. I mean, it closed before we were born. 119 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:51.480 So this isn't particularly or necessarily a nostalgic trip for you. 120 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.199 This is about something else. What is it about for you? 121 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:58.720 I think for me the thing i've I I sort 122 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:03.319 of discovered, although I already knew It was the fact 123 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:07.560 that the more old cinemas I discovered in London, and 124 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:12.839 specifically how many there were in close concentration to each other. 125 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.680 You just realize that cinema going back in the nineteen 126 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:22.120 forties and fifties, nineteen thirties, it's a completely different game 127 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:25.800 to what it is now. And something that I found 128 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:28.399 myself sort of saying often when I was doing on 129 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:32.279 the walking tours, was this difference between today, if people 130 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:35.639 go to the cinema at all, they're typically making a decision. 131 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:37.879 I'm going to go and see that film. I'm going 132 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:39.840 to go and see this new Superman movie. I'm going 133 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:41.639 to go and see that film that I read or 134 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.399 heard an interesting review of. Back when these cinemas were thriving, 135 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:48.559 people just go week in, week out, and you have 136 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:51.879 that phrase, I'm just going to the pictures, indiscriminate of 137 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:57.039 what was on. So there's an element, like I said, 138 00:08:57.080 --> 00:08:58.919 it's not nostalgic because this is not a period of 139 00:08:58.919 --> 00:08:59.720 time that I. 140 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:01.159 Have ended recollection of. 141 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:04.759 In fact, you and I both grew up in an 142 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:08.799 era which was literally the lowest time for cinema ever 143 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.679 in this country. You know, ninety five, fewest tickets sold 144 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.360 ever in Britain. That's when we were going to see 145 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:18.240 like all these adventure movies and all this sort of 146 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:22.759 stuff that we were into as kids. And so it's 147 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.399 about kind of revealing that history and making people think 148 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.120 a bit about that and that sort of history of 149 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:31.279 history of movie going and how that's changed, and then 150 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:36.559 just looking at these buildings and thinking, wow they are 151 00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:42.200 they are relics and they're not that old. So you know, 152 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:44.240 you can do a tour of theaters in the West 153 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:48.679 End they're still theaters. You go do a tour of cinemas, 154 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:50.679 they're not cinemas anymore. And a lot of them are 155 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:53.960 listed buildings, like the Carlton, so they sort of. 156 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:55.399 What can you what do you? 157 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.639 What do you do with a building that was designed 158 00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:59.879 to entertain two and a half a thousand. 159 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:01.960 People and one screen? Like they were all one screen. 160 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:05.159 Weren't they those big palaces movie palaces? Yeah, two and 161 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:07.279 a half thousand people. It doesn't I mean, I don't 162 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:08.960 think I've been in a cinema with that many people 163 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:12.879 since probably nineteen eighty three when I saw Return the Jedi, 164 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:13.679 the Dominion. 165 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.039 I mean, it just doesn't happen like that. Anymore. I 166 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:17.799 think you mentioned on the tour that. 167 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:22.919 Average number of seats in screens today is tiny. 168 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:25.000 Yeah, I mean the average, I think is about one 169 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:27.639 hundred in the screen. Now, obviously you've got more screams 170 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:31.279 any cinema you know, but but yeah, it's totally different. 171 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:35.399 I saw Superman the other week with seven other people, 172 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.440 I think, in a screen that only had the capacity 173 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.639 for thirty. If you'd have walked through those doors any 174 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:45.879 Saturday night between like nineteen thirty into the nineteen forties, 175 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:47.120 you would have been in. 176 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:50.559 A throng of hundreds, one hundreds. 177 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:54.399 The capacity of this when it was a cinema was 178 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:58.519 two and a half thousand, two and a half thousand seats, 179 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:03.720 and like all of the old cinemas, one screen. So 180 00:11:04.279 --> 00:11:06.120 just by a little bit of comparison, if any if 181 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:08.240 you're a local, you might know the screen on the 182 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:11.200 Green about ten minutes walk from here, one hundred and 183 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:15.960 twenty seats. The Cursain in Camden, where I go quite 184 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.600 regular because it's now where I live, five screens, thirty 185 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:21.120 seats each. 186 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:25.240 These tours that I've been on a couple of your 187 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:28.320 tours now they always have a great mixture of storytelling 188 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:29.360 and historical details. 189 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:31.240 How do you go about piecing together these. 190 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.440 Narratives from you know, the archives and photos and local 191 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:37.039 anecdotes as well. 192 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:40.120 The basis is, I always you've got to get the 193 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.639 basics right, So what actually happened? When did the building open? 194 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:50.559 If it has architectural significance, what is that crucially when 195 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:54.279 it closed? When it closed, and especially if you're doing 196 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.039 a walking tour, all of these things start to collide like, 197 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:00.320 oh wow, this was happening in nineteen twenty that was 198 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.480 happening in nineteen twenty four, and so that's a way 199 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:08.360 of sort of just bringing everything together and linking it. 200 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:13.600 But in terms of the archival research, the best some 201 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:18.320 of the best resources are just local newspapers. So I've 202 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.440 spent quite a bit of time in the Cinema Theater 203 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:23.679 Association Archive, which is a wonderful place where they've got 204 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:26.320 a lot of clippings. They have a file on every 205 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:29.240 cinema that has ever existed in this country. 206 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:30.120 It's incredible. 207 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.159 And then the local history, so in Islington, go to 208 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.960 the local archives, go through the microfilms, scrolling through and 209 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.720 I always look at the ads because you used to 210 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:43.840 have you know, maybe two pages just full of ads 211 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:46.559 of what was on all of the local cinemas. But 212 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:50.639 you'll always come across little stories about, you know, the 213 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.960 kids club football teams playing each other. Is Linketon getting 214 00:12:54.960 --> 00:13:00.000 a ten yel victory over you know, Hackney Odeon and 215 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:02.080 all of those sorts of things. And then there's another 216 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:06.600 brilliant periodical, the trade paper that's called the k In 217 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:09.600 a matograph and Lantern weekly. And you'll have heard me 218 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:11.399 quote from this on the tours that you've been on, 219 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:14.559 and that's a trade paper, and they had things like 220 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:17.240 they would the manager of a cinema back then was 221 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:20.159 a really significant person, and they have like a column 222 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:25.240 celebrating the managers or showmen that they would refer them to, 223 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:29.919 so they'd always be doing stunts and so you just 224 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:34.240 get together these little bits of stories, and again local 225 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:39.840 history centers will often have some good oral histories of 226 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:42.600 people whose memory. So on the tour in the Carlton 227 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:46.279 you're talking about the kids clubs, some of that was 228 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:50.159 just first pan testimony that I that I'd read, which 229 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:52.159 of researchers had done. And then the great things about 230 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.639 these archives is just stuff that was because even the 231 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.360 nineties years old now you know. So even a there 232 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:02.039 was a great article that I found about when the 233 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:06.480 Carlton Cinema was a bingo club, and it was just brilliant. 234 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:10.840 It just so vivid about describing these self described bingo 235 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:14.320 addicts who were coming. So it's a mixture of that 236 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:19.000 and then yeah, just figuring out a story. I'm always 237 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:21.399 very conscious that it would be very boring. On the 238 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.720 walking tours, we say, now here's a cinema that opened 239 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:25.919 on this date. It closed on this date. So I'm 240 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:30.000 always looking for sort of stories and narrative threads. And 241 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:34.159 with this tour of the Carlton, it's an amazing story 242 00:14:34.279 --> 00:14:37.120 because you can see the building, so I really try 243 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:40.399 to give a sense of like why it was built 244 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:45.080 in this over the top Egyptian fashion, the context of 245 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:49.879 moviegoing at that time. It was part of the ABC chain, 246 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.120 so I was already aware of the ABC miners and 247 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:56.360 the kids clubs, and then this story of decline and 248 00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:01.480 so many of the old cinemas that opened in the 249 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:25.600 thirties closed in the early seventies. The nine o'clock every 250 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.799 Saturday morning, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of kids would 251 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:33.080 come in here. 252 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:34.759 It would cost sixpence. 253 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.600 The real heyday the for the kids clubs was the 254 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:41.840 nineteen fifties average pocket money, but then was a shilling. 255 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.279 So your sixpence you'd pay your six months for the 256 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:49.159 cinema still have change for you know, your kiura and 257 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.679 your sweet So I imagine hundreds and hundred kids all 258 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:56.440 doped up on lots of sugar pentop excitement and it 259 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:01.000 would have been this amazing experience. They would have started 260 00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:06.159 by singing that song. The manager of the cinema would 261 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:09.759 be on the stage welcome them all. If it was 262 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:14.440 somebody's birthday, you came in for free, and I suspect 263 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.399 everybody sang happy birthday to them as well. But in 264 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:20.879 terms of supervision, you've got the manager, maybe a few wishers, 265 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.720 and then some senior slightly more older children who would 266 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:28.200 act as as monitors, and that was it. Often they 267 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.360 wouldn't they wouldn't let the kids into the circle because 268 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:35.200 there was so much sort of the weapon that I 269 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:38.399 have read most about orange peel seemed to be very 270 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:42.679 very popular for throwing at There's some nods of recognition here. 271 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.440 Yeah, you sort of mentioned it there, but I sort 272 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:52.639 of see your churs as it's not just about cinema history. 273 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.679 It's about the sort of London's broader cultural memory in 274 00:16:55.720 --> 00:17:00.679 a way beyond places that just showed films. And I 275 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:04.240 like how you always put things in a context. And 276 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:06.240 there are some moments in your tour this time as 277 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:08.480 well where there's there's a little bit of theatrics going 278 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:10.079 on as well, which I really enjoys. 279 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.440 Is that something you like to introduce throughout these Yeah. 280 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:19.039 So I go on quite a lot of walking tours 281 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:26.240 right for inspiration. And there is an absolutely brilliant company 282 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.440 called Minimum Labyrinth I'm a huge fan of and their 283 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:36.440 tours are a mixture of almost I always say, sort 284 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:38.680 of guided tour, meet street theater, you know. So there's 285 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:43.240 a little crew, there's the unexpected things happen. And I've 286 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:46.440 just recently been on their most recent tour all around 287 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.279 Lambert and I've been on one of their things earlier 288 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:55.559 and what I love about it is this element of surprise. So, 289 00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.279 and they do some stuff that is quite gorilla, some 290 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:00.880 of which I tried to I do a tour in 291 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:05.920 Acton and one of the cinemas we talk about there, 292 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:10.400 the Globe was built in the nineteen twenties, got huge again, 293 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:14.799 over two thousand seats got demolished in the late fifties. 294 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.279 But I've got a really great poster for the opening 295 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.680 night which advertises the musical artist that was but what's 296 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:24.640 there now is a shopping center that was built fifteen 297 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.960 years ago. And a few times I've stucked that poster 298 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:32.160 up in the shopping center before the tour and I'm like, oh, 299 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:34.359 look what we found here. And then the last two 300 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:36.160 or three times i've done it this security it's only 301 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:38.279 been a half an hour and it's gone. So one 302 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:40.359 of the reasons that really appealed to me about doing 303 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:42.720 this tour in the Carlton Cinema. It is indoors and 304 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:48.640 I'm one hundred in control of the space, so little 305 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:53.039 bits of just to manage expectations when we're saying theatrical Definitely, 306 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:56.799 I'm not putting on any costumes, there's no it's just me, 307 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:02.720 but little bits of surprise. Yeah, it was great, and 308 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.160 figuring out how to do it and how to introduce 309 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:07.039 it was really fun. 310 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:10.079 Yeah, it got a little round of applause one of 311 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:13.279 them when I was there. I think people sort of 312 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:16.519 underestimate how much you know a building like this can 313 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:19.359 tell us about sort of social life and habits in 314 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:21.160 the community that surrounded it. And I think what was 315 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.000 great about the tour that I went on with you. 316 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:25.680 Was that there was a real eclectic mix of people there. 317 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:27.519 There was a guy who'd been to that cinema and 318 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:29.960 seen a film there, but so pre nineteen seventy two. 319 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:32.079 There are people that have balked past it one hundred 320 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.480 times on their daily commute. There are people there like 321 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.079 me who'd never really known about it. I think I've 322 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.200 vaguely been aware of it as i've driven past. Probably 323 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:42.359 it was a bingo hall now a church, as you 324 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:43.000 say in the tour. 325 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:44.240 But I think it's just. 326 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.200 Really important what you do, you know, in telling these stories, 327 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:50.079 because they feedback into the press as well, like you've 328 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:53.920 had a nice article out today, So when people are 329 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:56.200 researching in the future, you're doing. 330 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.720 Them a favor as well by kind of gathering this information. 331 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:05.039 What is great is the tours evolve because of the 332 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.519 participation of the people on them. So you've been on 333 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:11.519 my tour in the West End. One of the best 334 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:14.880 stops Prince Charles Cinema, and I start the stop now 335 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.160 by asking pretty much, I mean almost everybody's been there. 336 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:22.319 Anybody got any good memories from Prince Charles and the 337 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.240 very so much depending on the age of the people. 338 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:29.759 There was somebody, you know, younger person just talking so 339 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.839 fondly about some Adam Sandler film they'd seen that, and 340 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:35.359 then there are other people talking about like all nighters. 341 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:39.440 And one guy remember memorably telling me about he went 342 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:41.920 there before it was the Prince Charles and how his 343 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:45.599 sister took him to see I think Emmanuel that. 344 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:47.279 I think I was on that tour. I think that 345 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:48.319 was the very Toy. 346 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:51.640 So all of these sort of feeding and even at 347 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.880 the at the Carlton, right, I've only done that tour 348 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.039 three times now the practice rather than two public tours. 349 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:05.359 And somebody spotted something I had not seen already. Firstly, 350 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:07.440 there was a great deal of interest in a bit 351 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.880 of carpet that somebody spotted and oh that's a carpet 352 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.599 from definitely the Bingo era. But somebody else spotted the 353 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.759 tip up seat for the usherret. Yes, yeah, And obviously 354 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:21.440 I did the tour. You came in the morning. I 355 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.599 did it again in the afternoon, so you integrated there, yeah, 356 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:29.559 of course. And it's a delight for people, and people 357 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.720 notice things on the facades of buildings that I won't 358 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:38.279 necessarily spot. So there's a wonderful cinema in the West End, 359 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.559 the Plaza on Lower Registreets now a view half. 360 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:42.920 Of its view half of its tesco. 361 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:47.160 But it was opened by Paramount Pictures in the nineteen 362 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:52.119 twenties and it's got the stars on the ya on 363 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.839 this dome thing. I've done that tour and dozens of times, 364 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.720 and within the last twelve months I was like, oh, yeah, 365 00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:03.119 but you look closely. There's also the mountain carved into 366 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:08.079 the never spotted it, all of these little things. So yeah, 367 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:12.079 people's interactions really build it up. 368 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.519 Yeah, so you're you're sort of it's sort of an 369 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:16.599 active history, isn't it. 370 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.599 That's a very good question, right, just been asked this. 371 00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:22.160 I love this details that I'm not even repotted it. 372 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:24.759 Just been asked about the carpet. There's a little carpet 373 00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:29.599 remnant here, Oh, a bigger piece of carpet. Let's take 374 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:35.319 a picture. This to me exactly, this is bingo carpet. 375 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:42.759 One Bingo carpet that's got that says mecha Bingo all 376 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:47.160 over it, very very much the same colors. And again, 377 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.920 if there's any sort of urban archaeologists among you, if 378 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:51.640 you go around the back of the cinema, you'll you'll 379 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.400 still see the mecha Bingo car park sign. Very exciting. 380 00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.079 What do you think if we failed to preserve these stories, 381 00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:01.000 what do you think we risk losing not just in 382 00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.160 terms of, you know, the architecture, but in terms of 383 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.960 I guess, sort of local identity and local history as well. 384 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.200 It's the really good question. I mean, the one that 385 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.640 is top of mind at the moment is the Odion 386 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:19.119 in Camden Camden Town Parkway, and it's a pretty bog 387 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:24.640 standard Odian a little bit. It has not been luxed, 388 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:26.720 you know, like many of the other Odiens as a 389 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:30.240 lovely Idion Hall theway road near where I live, beautiful 390 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:35.799 building and now really beautifully restored. But Odion announced a 391 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:38.359 little while ago that they're just going to close that cinema, 392 00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:43.599 knock it down. Nobody seems to care less. But I 393 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:46.559 do this tour in Camden, and when I talk about 394 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:50.920 that tour and particularly it had this really unique time period, 395 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:52.440 I think actually I may have talked like this when 396 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:55.400 that's not on the podcast, but it had this really 397 00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:58.720 unique period in the eighties where it's an independent cinema 398 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.160 run by this very very eccentric guy called Peter Walker. 399 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:06.480 And it's like folk memory. And to some extent, when 400 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:11.200 the building goes people will stop. The trigger for the 401 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:18.319