Speaker 1: Simple questions for one hundred people. Welcome to the experiment.
Speaker 1: I'm Bill Carrell, and this is my investigation, my research
Speaker 1: project to gather data from one hundred beautiful human beings
Speaker 1: for the sole purpose just to see what happens actually
Speaker 1: across the interviews. Now, the questions are fixed and all
Speaker 1: the interviews will remain consistent, and the variable will be
Speaker 1: the actual participants themselves and their answers. So Marcus says,
Speaker 1: if I'm having you come sit on my porch to
Speaker 1: share your thoughts so I can learn about people. We're
Speaker 1: looking forward to what we're going to learn when we're done,
Speaker 1: and very interested in the people in the process and
Speaker 1: in your particular story. So we'll get to know our
Speaker 1: guest here a little bit through the interview. So let's
Speaker 1: dive in. What is your full name?
Speaker 2: My name is Mark Alan Stewart.
Speaker 1: Mark Alan Stewart. Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2: Well, I first and last given named Mark Stewart. I
Speaker 2: was in the music business. I'm still am in the
Speaker 2: music business for one of my pursuits. And if I
Speaker 2: add the word Alan in the middle of it, I'm
Speaker 2: much more googleable. So that's why I've now gone the
Speaker 2: last four years. To Mark Allan Stewart, it sounds so
Speaker 2: much more officious.
Speaker 1: A marketing genius. I love it. Good for you self.
Speaker 1: Promotion is horrible, but somebody's got to.
Speaker 2: Do it right.
Speaker 1: If we don't, who will exactly? So, Mark, what's your
Speaker 1: favorite nickname that most people don't know?
Speaker 2: You know? I Tiger my dad when I when I
Speaker 2: was very young, I was a really small, sickly, frail
Speaker 2: and my dad called me tiger. He was an industrial psychologist,
Speaker 2: so he was setting my inner compass at my inner
Speaker 2: mojo when I was a little kid. So because I
Speaker 2: was a little and fronnie in frail, he called me
Speaker 2: tiger and I kind of grew into it. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: that's it. So I started as a frail, little, tiny,
Speaker 2: sickly kid. I ended up when I was playing football
Speaker 2: in college. I was six three, two hundred and seventy pounds,
Speaker 2: So I kind of grew into that tiger nomenclature. But
Speaker 2: I was a little kid, scrawny kid when I was small,
Speaker 2: and dad nicknamed me tiger.
Speaker 1: So can you say a little bit more about that relationship,
Speaker 1: because obviously you transformed from like a I don't know,
Speaker 1: what would you call it like a caterpillar into a butterfly.
Speaker 2: Well, my dad was a pure artist in business. As
Speaker 2: I said, he was a business psychologist, and I loved
Speaker 2: him dearly. He passed when I was in school, So
Speaker 2: I grew up dreaming to be part of his company
Speaker 2: and and and unfortunately didn't have happen to have that opportunity.
Speaker 2: But he was my best friend growing up. I wasn't
Speaker 2: a horribly social kid. I spent a lot of time
Speaker 2: with my family. My dad was was was he had
Speaker 2: a congenital heart disease, so he was he was sick
Speaker 2: of a bunch, and so he and I just spent
Speaker 2: a lot of time together and we were just absolute besties.
Speaker 2: And so he could call me tiger, he could call
Speaker 2: me literally, he could call me whoever he wanted. But
Speaker 2: I just cherished those those times together and and not
Speaker 2: in day goes by that I don't think about the
Speaker 2: positive impact he made in my life.
Speaker 1: That's really great. Now, did you have a kind of
Speaker 1: a pet name for him or was it just dad?
Speaker 2: Dad? That that was that? I didn't I think he
Speaker 2: had a first name. I think it was Kent, but
Speaker 2: it was Dad that that was like that, you know,
Speaker 2: the Holy grail term.
Speaker 1: There you go. So interesting start to life and quite
Speaker 1: a trip along the way. When did you first notice
Speaker 1: what color your hair was?
Speaker 2: I met? It's fun. I referenced it that I went
Speaker 2: to college at Rice, played football there and in If
Speaker 2: you want a date, I can't give you an exact date,
Speaker 2: but August nineteen eighty I was a freshman in college
Speaker 2: and the football team had to fill out a media
Speaker 2: guide questionnaire and one of the questions they had to
Speaker 2: height and weight because of the physical exam. One of
Speaker 2: the questions was hair color. So that's my recollection of
Speaker 2: the first time I realized, indeed, I do have colored hair.
Speaker 1: Before that, you really didn't give a good rap.
Speaker 2: Did you never thought about it? But that questionnaire maybe
Speaker 2: introspective about my follicles?
Speaker 1: Well, that's it obviously made an impact in your memory,
Speaker 1: as you can go right back to that month in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2: I remember because we're in August. September now just came
Speaker 2: out of August, and every year that time, it's just
Speaker 2: every one of those years I played football in Houston, Texas,
Speaker 2: outdoors on AstroTurf in one hundred and ten degree weather.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of that experience that has been literally
Speaker 2: burned into my mind. And I just remember those press days.
Speaker 2: We had basically a day off of practice when we
Speaker 2: had the media day in press Day and so forth,
Speaker 2: and it was just a great respite. And so there
Speaker 2: were a lot of rich fund memories about that day
Speaker 2: that we didn't try to knock each other's heads off.
Speaker 1: Good for you. I'm going to stay on this thread
Speaker 1: for a minute. You're kind of a blessed guy. Now,
Speaker 1: out of three hundred and some odd universities Division one
Speaker 1: playing football, you had an extremely great underclass for quarterbacks
Speaker 1: all across the United States. Eighty three would give us
Speaker 1: some of the best quarterbacks we've ever seen in the game.
Speaker 2: Without without question. And so Rice, which was the smallest
Speaker 2: Division one college at the time, part of the Southwest Conference,
Speaker 2: So we had four hundre undergraduate four thousand undergraduate kids,
Speaker 2: smallest D one school and we were in our conference
Speaker 2: was University of Texas SMU, which back then the s
Speaker 2: m U was, you know, was the net. It was
Speaker 2: the team and Eric Dickerson, Craig James that we played
Speaker 2: to get So so we played all of these Mamath schools,
Speaker 2: but they really gave us a break for the two
Speaker 2: preseason games because we only had to play LSU and
Speaker 2: Oklahoma for preseason.
Speaker 1: Those are good tune ups. I mean, their fans eat
Speaker 1: their meat without cooking it. I'm telling you all that question,
Speaker 1: well that was question about it. I mean, when you
Speaker 1: do barbecue in Texas, it's either cooked for twenty hours
Speaker 1: or it's one and done. You know, you're right, what
Speaker 1: a great place to have spent your your college career.
Speaker 1: So you know you've got all this under your belt,
Speaker 1: and now you're you're a few weeks older. What did
Speaker 1: you say is your favorite thing to do to intentionally
Speaker 1: waste time?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a I'm a realist, but I'm also
Speaker 2: an optimist. I have uh own three companies and I'm
Speaker 2: on two boards, so I really try to maximize my time.
Speaker 2: But I'm a big believer in entertainment. Uh and one
Speaker 2: of my one of my companies is an entertainment company.
Speaker 2: And so if it's non business or non family related,
Speaker 2: I love to break away to and play video games.
Speaker 2: I'm a video gamer, probably, as you said a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks in the North, part of the average age
Speaker 2: group for video game players. But I kind of grew
Speaker 2: up in the video game industry and early on in
Speaker 2: in in Sega Nintendo days, and I to this day,
Speaker 2: every day I squeak out a little time to relax
Speaker 2: the left end right side of my brains and play
Speaker 2: video games.
Speaker 1: Do you play any of the classics or are you
Speaker 1: playing more modern stuff?
Speaker 2: Now? All modern? I let's just say that I've killed
Speaker 2: myself some zombies over the last couple of years.
Speaker 1: I like that, And then there's always Fortnite and you know,
Speaker 1: Minecraft and some of the other ones. My grandsons who
Speaker 1: are eleven and thirteen, the younger one, when he was
Speaker 1: eight years old, was competing at a national level for
Speaker 1: a little while. Yeah, I mean it was really it
Speaker 1: really had nothing to do with how old you were.
Speaker 1: In order to be a really good video game player,
Speaker 1: you know, right.
Speaker 2: No doubt, you just have that have that commitment, drive
Speaker 2: and focus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So that's a really good thing to
Speaker 1: do to intentionally waste time. And do you feel like
Speaker 1: that gives you a competitive edge?
Speaker 2: I do because it's such such a divergence from the
Speaker 2: other things I do during the day and has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with it. I literally am assembling weaponry and
Speaker 2: saving the planet by killing zombies. I that that's very
Speaker 2: distinct from the consulting world that I have or the
Speaker 2: the music and feel world that I have. So because
Speaker 2: because I really can recharge and relax and separate from
Speaker 2: the day to day activities of my traditional business by
Speaker 2: playing video game, really detaching, really recharging and enjoying it.
Speaker 2: I truly I have a lot of fun with it.
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't That's why I say I'm an
Speaker 2: optimist and a realist, because it really doesn't benefit me
Speaker 2: in any other way other than I have fun. And
Speaker 2: fun is a good thing.
Speaker 1: And the neat part of it is is when people
Speaker 1: want to talk about being mindful, You're one hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy percent mindful, and in the middle of a battle, you.
Speaker 2: Know exactly right.
Speaker 1: I got to save the world. Bill, I'm not fooling
Speaker 1: around here. We're talking about that. Somebody has to right.
Speaker 1: So Mark, this is this is fascinating. What's your favorite
Speaker 1: movie to watch alone?
Speaker 2: I reference my dad growing up two movies. We went
Speaker 2: to two movies on Saturday and one movie Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 2: My whole life. I love movies. That's why I ended
Speaker 2: up John Carpenter's second film he had a film called
Speaker 2: Dark Star, which was actually it was a college project,
Speaker 2: but it was traditionally released. But his second film, his
Speaker 2: first independent film, was called Assault on Precing thirteen that
Speaker 2: he did in nineteen seventy six, and it was made
Speaker 2: two years before Halloween. And it's this incredible. The third
Speaker 2: floor of our house is half of it is my office.
Speaker 2: You have half is my man cave with the TV
Speaker 2: and so forth. And I go in there by myself.
Speaker 2: I watch Assault on Precing thirteen. It's this.
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with the film, I believe I am.
Speaker 1: I'm remembering some young actors that became really big after that.
Speaker 2: So it's basically an anti hero hero western cowboy shoot
Speaker 2: him Up. Set in urban Los Angeles circa nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 2: and there were two oh my god, and it was
Speaker 2: super low budget but pure John Carpenter, John Carbon who
Speaker 2: did the music, and people know him as a great director,
Speaker 2: but he was a He and Debba Hill as partner,
Speaker 2: unbelievable musicians. But there was a there was a two
Speaker 2: unbelievable character actors that were actually had starring roles. A
Speaker 2: god name of Austin Stoker who played the police lieutenant
Speaker 2: but this unbelievable unsung hero of an actor called Darwin
Speaker 2: Jostin who played the anti hero hero Napoleon Wilson, and
Speaker 2: just that name, and he was such a quirky, interesting story.
Speaker 2: But this anti hero hero Napoleon Wilson is just he
Speaker 2: looked a little bit like Robert Blake, the actor did.
Speaker 2: And it's just a great Like I said, it's like
Speaker 2: it's a western that could have been played in the
Speaker 2: eighteen eighties, but John Carpenter decided to film it in
Speaker 2: urban contemporary in nineteen seventy six. Just a really gritty,
Speaker 2: fun movie that I love watching by myself. I've probably
Speaker 2: bill seen it one hundred times.
Speaker 1: I can tell that you've lost your passion. There's no.
Speaker 2: I love the film. I watched it three days ago.
Speaker 1: You know, when I was writing these questions, I knew
Speaker 1: you'd be interviewing you someday. Thank you for sharing all that.
Speaker 1: I now have something on my to do list. I've
Speaker 1: got to go and see if I ever did see
Speaker 1: this movie.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because they've remade it with Ethan Hawke in
Speaker 2: two thousand in ten. I believe I would never watch
Speaker 2: that remake. I've watched other remakes. I've watched you. John
Speaker 2: Carpentho did the thing, and then there was a remake
Speaker 2: of the thing. I've watched that. But Assault them research thirteen.
Speaker 2: I just said to myself, it can't be any better.
Speaker 2: It could be different, it's not I'm not going to
Speaker 2: to my one man cave movie. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: mess around with it.
Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. There are some things that
Speaker 1: are sacrilegious to do, and to overprint a classic that
Speaker 1: should never have been remade. That's showing some hootspot these
Speaker 1: days because everything's done again.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I just spread on one of my
Speaker 2: feeds two days ago or yesterday kind of the list
Speaker 2: of great seventies movies you've never heard of, and there's
Speaker 2: my Assault on Precinct thirteen, and it's all over the place.
Speaker 2: It's on two B, it's on Netflix, it's on Prime,
Speaker 2: so you'll be able to access it. But do yourself
Speaker 2: an hour and twenty six minute favor and rewatch the
Speaker 2: movie because it's a ton of fun.
Speaker 1: I will do so, and I will let you know
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: Please.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So now we can move into the meat and
Speaker 1: potatoes of this interview. If you were to have an
Speaker 1: action figure made of you, What superpower would it have
Speaker 1: and what colors would its uniform be?
Speaker 2: Superpower? Definitely, telekinesis without question. My dad got his thesis
Speaker 2: at Stanford parapsychology and telekinesis. Now he he never made
Speaker 2: something move with his mind, but he got it. But
Speaker 2: the approach and the theorems that he crafted to do
Speaker 2: the research is what got the doctorate. But I always
Speaker 2: thought that that was the coolest superpower is is tapping
Speaker 2: the part of the mind? What what what do we what?
Speaker 2: What do we hear? We only use two percent or
Speaker 2: whatever the small percentage is. So I'm thinking, well, if
Speaker 2: you tap into that other ninety eight percent, you got
Speaker 2: to move stuff and that would be really because you
Speaker 2: know the power and strength of emotion and when it
Speaker 2: becomes a physicality makes sense that you're able to move stuff.
Speaker 2: So so that would that might superpower? Telekinesis no question. Uh.
Speaker 2: Colors would be silver and black. Now, not black and
Speaker 2: silver like venom or like the ponament, but but silver
Speaker 2: with highlights of black.
Speaker 1: There you go, not not not the not the raiders,
Speaker 1: right exactly? I got you. The opposite of that.
Speaker 2: Would you have a cape, a fabulous question. I'm going capeless.
Speaker 1: Bill got a gutsy move, but I like it.
Speaker 2: I'm going I'm going capless. It's just gonna get get
Speaker 2: the way of all that telekinesis. So I'm gonna I'm passing.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: So, now you've got this marvelous uniform. You're gonna have
Speaker 1: a mask or anything, or you're just gonna be like
Speaker 1: everybody will know who you are.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be like a like a Lone Ranger type mask.
Speaker 2: If they know you, they'll figure it out it's you.
Speaker 2: But still you have it because it's a really great accent.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that the people in the nineteen fifties
Speaker 1: believed that the people in the eighteen eighties were that stupid,
Speaker 1: you know, right exactly? All right, So now you've got
Speaker 1: this tool, what are you gonna do for it? Or
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do
Speaker 1: with it?
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, first of all, I'm gonna go on all
Speaker 2: of the late night talk shows and prove of the
Speaker 2: amazing Andy wrong that no, you actually can move things
Speaker 2: with your mind, because if you remember him, he was
Speaker 2: he was always thwarting Uri Geller and all of those
Speaker 2: other guys, So definitely make the talk show circuit. Uh.
Speaker 2: But then I think that that I would try to
Speaker 2: utilize it in some form of medicine or medical procedure
Speaker 2: to execute medical procedures in a bloodless, cutless way that
Speaker 2: would dramatically help and improve the health of an individual
Speaker 2: without the evasiveness of tearing into the human body. Then
Speaker 2: once that's cracked, I'd profer it and teach it to
Speaker 2: every physician on the planet.
Speaker 1: I like that, you know, And I can do that
Speaker 1: because I.
Speaker 2: Can do it because I have telekinesis, so I can
Speaker 2: project it into their minds.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, there's probably nothing you couldn't do. You know, it's there.
Speaker 1: We're approaching eight billion, and you'd have to take a
Speaker 1: few at a time, I think, maybe.
Speaker 2: But still there's a lot of brain cells up there.
Speaker 2: We can knock it out to it at a time.
Speaker 1: There you go. All right, So now what did you
Speaker 1: want to What did you want to do and grow
Speaker 1: up to be when you were five years old?
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of kids loved dinosaurs, and I
Speaker 2: originally liked dinosaurs, but what I liked were the people
Speaker 2: studying dinosaurs. I thought superheroes were the archaeologists and there
Speaker 2: was this archaeologist. He died I believe in nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 2: seventy two or seventy four, but his name was Lewis
Speaker 2: Leaky and Lewis Leaky and his claim to archaeological fame
Speaker 2: was a great archaeological digs in the Oldowa Gorge in
Speaker 2: Africa and some of the earliest humanoids did the access.
Speaker 2: He wasn't a rock star. He wasn't Indiana Jones that
Speaker 2: you remember the TV show Nova that would showcase scientists
Speaker 2: and yes, and he was on the first year of
Speaker 2: Nova was nineteen seventy four and he was, so he
Speaker 2: must have passed in seventy two. Novod's in seventy four
Speaker 2: and he was one of the very first exposes that
Speaker 2: they did. And he spoke with this great cross between
Speaker 2: a British and South African accent, and he did look
Speaker 2: the party, had gray hair and you know the tunic outfit.
Speaker 2: And his wife was his partner and they were always
Speaker 2: on digs together. But the commitment and depth and seriousness
Speaker 2: of his communication style and pathway about what he was
Speaker 2: doing and why it was important, and he didn't he
Speaker 2: wasn't like a cheerleader raw raw but the intensity again
Speaker 2: reinforcing how important the work he was doing was to
Speaker 2: us understanding ourselves today. I'm a five year old kid
Speaker 2: sitting there watching this from five to probably twenty, just
Speaker 2: really fascinated by the idea and the concept of learning
Speaker 2: about ourselves today by learning about our history before today.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I guess once you start scratching the surface
Speaker 1: on that, the more you start to know, the more
Speaker 1: you realize you don't know. And when you ignite that passion,
Speaker 1: you've got a lifetime hobby, You've got a lifetime endeavor,
Speaker 1: and maybe a career.
Speaker 2: Who knows, And that really defines who I am as
Speaker 2: a business person today. Is that true commitment to continue improvement?
Speaker 2: I read, I research. I used to be the CEO
Speaker 2: of the Collecting Channel. I collect like twenty different categories,
Speaker 2: and I studied a lot about the collecting mentality of
Speaker 2: people who collect stuff. And I really have this, this
Speaker 2: commitment to myself to continue to learn, to get better,
Speaker 2: to get smarter, to help people, and populating our mind
Speaker 2: with information is just a great speedway to that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Completely agree with you. I think you know on growth,
Speaker 1: ongoing growth and development, and tell you until you you know,
Speaker 1: move on to the next level. Is always about getting
Speaker 1: a better question. It's always about setting aside what you
Speaker 1: think you know in favor of what you're what you're
Speaker 1: about to take a chance on and learn.
Speaker 2: You know, it's so funny that you say that, and
Speaker 2: I'll I will tork it a bit to say that that.
Speaker 2: I think what I find Bill is that I respect
Speaker 2: people's answers to questions, but I've come to the point
Speaker 2: of being more intrigued by their questions rather than the
Speaker 2: answers of questions. And you know, and that within it,
Speaker 2: you know, pursuit of knowledge and thought. And yeah, I'll
Speaker 2: walk why I get excited, I'll walk out of this
Speaker 2: conversation with you, and I'm going to be a better
Speaker 2: smarter person because You've populated my mind with different points
Speaker 2: of view and vectors and perspectives that I didn't have
Speaker 2: before I had this call. And I wouldn't have if
Speaker 2: I didn't have this call.
Speaker 1: It's a true story. And when we when we stepped
Speaker 1: back from life a little bit and you start to
Speaker 1: realize that all growth comes from having a better question,
Speaker 1: then it has to be who are you in conversation with?
Speaker 1: You've got to up your game with the folks that
Speaker 1: you're having conversation with, or you're not getting to the
Speaker 1: point of being stimulated to better.
Speaker 2: Questions, right, absolutely, well sone.
Speaker 1: So just you know, to kind of close off this
Speaker 1: this question, what did you think of Jurassic Park.
Speaker 2: I loved it. I loved it. I completely thought that
Speaker 2: that that they captured something completely new. I just went
Speaker 2: when when when the lead archaeologist puts his hands on
Speaker 2: on his on his knees, as as the Alisaurus will
Speaker 2: walk by at the very beginning of the film, when
Speaker 2: Laura Dern had that affinity for the triceratops that was
Speaker 2: that had eaten the wrong berries and and she had
Speaker 2: that intimate connection with the animal, and then it took
Speaker 2: the deep sigh we all kind of felt all of that.
Speaker 2: I thought. I thought it was a fabulous film visually
Speaker 2: story wise great, but I thought the connectivity of the characters,
Speaker 2: their dimensionality. You know, you had Jeff Goldbloom, which was
Speaker 2: just you know, chaotist, you know, a chaos theory person
Speaker 2: that the bloodsucking lawyer who was the only one that
Speaker 2: wanted to support Attinburgh. It was just I loved it,
Speaker 2: and I love obviously envious because I wish I could
Speaker 2: go to Jurassic Park this afternoon, because I wouldn't. I
Speaker 2: would have missed this call. But I thought it was
Speaker 2: a fabulous that one of the best best films of
Speaker 2: its type ever. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The neat part of all of those first of is
Speaker 1: that you get this stuff that just blows your mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it was like eight and a half seconds long,
Speaker 1: looking down into the valley with all of the animals
Speaker 1: trooping across. I got goose, I get goosebumps now about that? Right,
Speaker 1: that had never been able to be done before. It
Speaker 1: costs them millions of dollars and months worth of rendering
Speaker 1: time sure to make that happen. And uh, I mean
Speaker 1: that's the way I remember the story. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like the Matrix where they introduced the new uh camera
Speaker 1: in order to get those stop actions as you know,
Speaker 1: all the way around the you know the actors and right,
Speaker 1: So what are that kind of thinking is just out
Speaker 1: of this world. It's a wonderful thing to at least
Speaker 1: behold and then to appreciate.
Speaker 2: And it's it is stark to to to for the
Speaker 2: realization of how much industrial light and magic does of
Speaker 2: all special effects today and and not not just for
Speaker 2: for CBS, but but and CBS chacter properties, but for everybody.
Speaker 2: And they they did the Wolverine, uh, Deadpool on special effects,
Speaker 2: they did they did Jurassic Park that they really have
Speaker 2: and they employ thousands of people. Interestingly, you know, you
Speaker 2: go through the end credits waiting for the Easter A
Speaker 2: in a Marvel film and you see thousands of digital
Speaker 2: artists because you say, you know, some of it is
Speaker 2: and with AI, we're getting faster and quicker at it
Speaker 2: being able to produce that. But the reality of it
Speaker 2: is to have that artistry and that beautiful visual I appeal,
Speaker 2: You got it. It takes time because it isn't it
Speaker 2: isn't just digital rendering. It really is art and digital production.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. It takes the thinking to
Speaker 1: conceive the outcomes of of what you're being you know,
Speaker 1: what's being generated in c g I, and be able
Speaker 1: to tell AI that this is what I'm looking for,
Speaker 1: and then to use it enough times to get the
Speaker 1: one that you choose. You know, pretty cool to be alive, right, no.
Speaker 2: Doubt, absolutely, Eye candy is good.
Speaker 1: So Mark, what's what would you say your greatest accomplishment is.
Speaker 2: I would not say my daughter, because she is an
Speaker 2: individual and she's done it herself and heard her mom.
Speaker 2: I think the realization that I'm as comfortable with the
Speaker 2: two things that I'm good at in business as I
Speaker 2: am comfortable with the ninety nine thousand things I'm cruddy
Speaker 2: at in business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's health, healthy and adult.
Speaker 2: Well I something sounding, Yes, something had to be adult
Speaker 2: in my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what is that translated into for you? You know,
Speaker 1: being good at those two things, being totally satisfied that
Speaker 1: those are the two good things that you're that you're
Speaker 1: good at, and it gives you a chance to, you know,
Speaker 1: like maybe play in the other areas and be a
Speaker 1: failure at it. And it doesn't take any power from it.
Speaker 2: Oh. I you know what, what I the one of
Speaker 2: the greatest blessings I have at this point in my
Speaker 2: career is that I'm a strategist. That's what I That's
Speaker 2: what I do, and so I take really complex situations,
Speaker 2: I simplify them, I normalize them, and I optimize them.
Speaker 2: That's that's it. And and and and that that that
Speaker 2: that is one of the two strengths that I had.
Speaker 2: The other strength is out of years of discipline of
Speaker 2: being a consultant. My number my number one, and a
Speaker 2: realization within the realization is my number one. Any consultants
Speaker 2: number one value to their client is objectivity. But the
Speaker 2: every second you're with your client, you lose by definition, objectivity.
Speaker 2: And and if you if there comes a time where
Speaker 2: you cross that line and you've lost objectivity, you either
Speaker 2: need to join that company full time or stop being
Speaker 2: a consultant because you've lost the number one value bring down,
Speaker 2: which is objectivity. So so the the the two strengths
Speaker 2: objectivity and strategy allows me to focus on those two
Speaker 2: things and and surround myself with people that are infinitely
Speaker 2: better at the other components of business execution and and
Speaker 2: and and and operations, and surround myself with people that
Speaker 2: I used to do them and I wasn't very good
Speaker 2: at it and I didn't like it. And now I
Speaker 2: have the you know, the comfort to say, here's my
Speaker 2: two lanes and everything else. I'm just going to surround
Speaker 2: myself with really smart, wonderful, beautiful people that thrive at it,
Speaker 2: that do it well. Here's my lane, and I'm super
Speaker 2: comfortable with the rest.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great way to go. And as
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, it's more cost effective, there's a
Speaker 1: lot less lost energy, and people just have more fun really.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, And because of that, what I found
Speaker 2: out within myself is the minute I made that realization,
Speaker 2: and then that realization converted into a commitment, then it
Speaker 2: turned into a regiment, it turned into a routine, and
Speaker 2: therefore I reduced my waste and chaos of time and
Speaker 2: focus on doing things that I wasn't very good at
Speaker 2: and I was trying for whatever reason, and inwardly focus
Speaker 2: that to those two pillars, and it allowed those two
Speaker 2: pillars to become stronger because of that.
Speaker 1: Folks, Yeah, it's your power point and it is no
Speaker 1: doubt what you're known for.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: So now that you've got all of this that you're
Speaker 1: leaning on very comfortably, who's your favorite person to listen to?
Speaker 2: But voice tonality standpoint, which I know isn't your question.
Speaker 2: Vincent Price. I love the fact that Vincent Price grew
Speaker 2: was born and grew up in Saint Louis and had
Speaker 2: a British accent in his whole life and nobody ever
Speaker 2: said anything about it. But I don't always agree with him,
Speaker 2: maybe fifty percent of the time, but I love the
Speaker 2: way Elon Musk stirs things up and and he's a
Speaker 2: he's a very eloquent and thoughtful speaker. So you know,
Speaker 2: what is communication two things content delivery, what we say,
Speaker 2: and how we say it. So, yeah, he does. He
Speaker 2: has good delivery, but the content and the the scope
Speaker 2: of the topics that he's talking about some trivial but
Speaker 2: import some macro, socioeconomic and dramatically important. But he's not
Speaker 2: afraid to stir things up at an unbelievably high level.
Speaker 2: And yeah, being the richest guy in a planet helps,
Speaker 2: but that's not what That's not what empowers him. What
Speaker 2: empowers him is an inner strength and comfort. And so
Speaker 2: I really like to listen to Elon Musk what he says,
Speaker 2: and he always the best part of his communication style
Speaker 2: is he always delivers an opinion with rationale, not just opinion. Yeah,
Speaker 2: everybody has an opinion, but the rationale opens up the
Speaker 2: mind to have a greater level of understanding, maybe not acceptance,
Speaker 2: but of an understanding because you understand the costal factors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. I think he believed brings
Speaker 1: an engineer's design discipline to constructing a sentence out of
Speaker 1: thin air. You can actually see him forming the words,
Speaker 1: you know, above his head like a run out. And
Speaker 1: I had a college professor, and then there was the
Speaker 1: CEO of a company that I worked for when I
Speaker 1: was very young, back in my twenties and early thirties,
Speaker 1: and they did the exact same thing. They would They
Speaker 1: would create the sentence in a language that was listenable
Speaker 1: and understandable by every last person in the room, and
Speaker 1: they made sure they were leaving no one behind and
Speaker 1: no one was getting bored. And I think he's a
Speaker 1: master at doing that sort of thing, plus coming up
Speaker 1: with really kind of disruptive and innovative ideas on the fly.
Speaker 1: He just seems to like generate that for a guy
Speaker 1: who doesn't sleep very much very often, let alone very much.
Speaker 1: It's remarkable to me. And he always performs at an
Speaker 1: extremely high level. And he never backs down, right, but
Speaker 1: I will change his mind, but he never backs down.
Speaker 2: And he and he and he goes on Joe Rogan
Speaker 2: and he goes to the World Cup and he's a
Speaker 2: he's a regular person. He just happens to get there
Speaker 2: on a private plane. But he it's not like he's
Speaker 2: cloistered in Ivory Tower anywhere he lives life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you, Mark, And I've said for
Speaker 1: a dozen years or so, without referencing Elon, but with
Speaker 1: other people I've said, I just dare you to tell
Speaker 1: me that people that are on the spectrum are handicapped.
Speaker 1: They are not. Okay, They're dealing at a different frequency
Speaker 1: than you and I are. And I'll tell you what
Speaker 1: They're going to find our frequency before we find theirs,
Speaker 1: and when they do, get out of the way, right,
Speaker 1: It's an amazing thing to watch without question. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I share obviously your passion in several of these different
Speaker 1: areas and even the silver and black. But so complete
Speaker 1: this sentence for me, if you will. When I grow up,
Speaker 1: I'd like to.
Speaker 2: I would like to never forget the whimsy and wonder
Speaker 2: of being a kid, the fantasy to make leave there
Speaker 2: the true essence of uninhibited creation, which hopefully will continue
Speaker 2: to drive bewilderment and innovation throughout our life. But never
Speaker 2: forget that wonder and whimsy of of of make believe
Speaker 2: in makeup.
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm going to translate back to you
Speaker 1: for a moment. What I'm hearing is that the childlike
Speaker 1: innate curiosity that never regards something that's not working as
Speaker 1: a problem. They always look at it as something to
Speaker 1: get better at and something to kind of understand is
Speaker 1: something to try and walk away with more than they
Speaker 1: started with. Every single time they fail until we tell
Speaker 1: them that failing is a bad idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you you your paraphrase definitely is in the right direction.
Speaker 2: In vector, you used a term I thought maybe about
Speaker 2: the design I thought you were going to say design thinking.
Speaker 2: I don't know what happened to design thinking. It is
Speaker 2: the smartest business approach on the planet. We kind of
Speaker 2: lost our way with it during the pandemic because we
Speaker 2: lost our way with everything on the pandemic. But I
Speaker 2: truly believe that adopting a design taking mentality, the concept
Speaker 2: and construct of failure doesn't exist because it truly is
Speaker 2: continue improvement, growth and evolution, bringing insight and intelligence into
Speaker 2: into the infrastructure, creation, adapting, evolving, growing, learning and expanding,
Speaker 2: and and that that that's that's that's really the way
Speaker 2: that I that I operate our business structure on all
Speaker 2: the companies.
Speaker 1: I like that. And having come up through manufacturing when
Speaker 1: we were you know, getting uh you know, uh, our
Speaker 1: our statistical quality control brought back to us from the
Speaker 1: Japanese after they transformed their country ten years ahead of us. Uh,
Speaker 1: when we started learning about combine and uh you know better,
Speaker 1: uh better this time than last kind of a philosophy.
Speaker 1: We're always looking for some kind of a marginal improvement.
Speaker 1: The design thinking was planted out ahead of time, so
Speaker 1: you at least know when to stop, you know, right,
Speaker 1: If you keep going and you don't know that you've
Speaker 1: hit a failure point, every energy that you're going to
Speaker 1: put put into the thing from here on is just
Speaker 1: wasted time. You have to have these you know, time
Speaker 1: fences and gates that you go through in order to
Speaker 1: say did we accomplish what we thought we were going
Speaker 1: to did we learn anything from that? Now? What can
Speaker 1: we do in the next step sort of a thing?
Speaker 1: And that way you know you're being responsible, right and accountable?
Speaker 2: Now, well, that question, it's so funny. You put a
Speaker 2: spile on my face because and I found it interesting
Speaker 2: that part of your question isn't what you do or
Speaker 2: what your career has been or what because it's really academic,
Speaker 2: and I understand that's not part part of the study.
Speaker 2: But I do have to tell you that I started
Speaker 2: my career at prok and Gamble, and I was there
Speaker 2: as a child of Deming and Total Quality There you
Speaker 2: go as a as a as a global initiative, and
Speaker 2: we were all impacted by TQM and total quality manufacturing
Speaker 2: and total quality is a is a as a mindset
Speaker 2: and again not unlike design thinking that lost its way
Speaker 2: to what to whatever, unbelievably important foundation points that I
Speaker 2: use every single day of my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was fortunate enough to work with a man
Speaker 1: named Paul Krensky who was one of Demming's disciples over
Speaker 1: in Japan and came back and brought you know, the
Speaker 1: whole statistical quality control. He worked with the man I
Speaker 1: don't remember who wrote it that quality is Free. It's
Speaker 1: been such a long time since I read that book,
Speaker 1: going back into the nineteen seventies or early eighties. But
Speaker 1: the whole idea of if you can measure it and
Speaker 1: you can see it, then you can produce, you know,
Speaker 1: an improvement to the system. If you don't, you're pretty
Speaker 1: much screwed. And you you know, it's luck of the draw.
Speaker 2: You can't have improvement without measurement. And that's one of
Speaker 2: those those unbelievably simple idioms that need to be a comitment,
Speaker 2: you know, a movement within an organization. But it's just
Speaker 2: simple and smart. It's just it's just really simple. And
Speaker 2: I'll tell you Bill, hopefully I'll put another smile on
Speaker 2: your face. When I was at P and G, I
Speaker 2: was I was a part of a group that that
Speaker 2: that that worked on brand but also organizational development things
Speaker 2: within the company. And I got to spend a lot
Speaker 2: of time with Stephen Covey, who was the shortest, most intense,
Speaker 2: in your face human I've ever met my life. I
Speaker 2: I I don't read sales or marketing or motivation books,
Speaker 2: and and there's a reason behind that. But I did
Speaker 2: read Seven Habits by the Successful People and in there,
Speaker 2: and it is brilliant, and it's brilliant today, and it's
Speaker 2: as it's as relevant today as the Old Testament's relevant today.
Speaker 2: And and but but I I did have a have
Speaker 2: an opportunity to spend a good deal of time with him,
Speaker 2: and he was a hoop.
Speaker 1: That's it was something I am envious of you. I've
Speaker 1: I've studied uh Covey for I'm the better part of
Speaker 1: thirty years. I don't remember what year in the nineties
Speaker 1: that seven habits came out, but I thought to myself,
Speaker 1: this is so freaking simple. You know, it takes somebody
Speaker 1: who's really awake and thinking to write this stuff down.
Speaker 1: And I think the most powerful thing beyond you know,
Speaker 1: begin with the end in mind, and you know, listen
Speaker 1: first to understand and then to be understood. That's cool stuff.
Speaker 1: But the four quadrant philosophy being able to take something
Speaker 1: and ask questions about it and place it in one
Speaker 1: of four quadrants, so you can say this quadrant's a throwaway.
Speaker 1: We do nothing in that quadrant at all if it's
Speaker 1: in there. If it pops up in one of the
Speaker 1: other quadrants later on, we'll take a look at it.
Speaker 1: I shamelessly stole those ideas and I used it in
Speaker 1: my businesses, and I also used it when I was
Speaker 1: consulting with people.
Speaker 2: I mean it was it was published originally in eighty nine,
Speaker 2: and I think the fifth of the seven is the
Speaker 2: most profound. And you're right. I mean, you have to
Speaker 2: have to step back, you have to be uncluttered, but
Speaker 2: seem to understand before you understood. So simple and so effective,
Speaker 2: hard hard to discipline yourself to that point, but so smart,
Speaker 2: so so super super smart and as I said, what's
Speaker 2: not relevant in twenty twenty five, be proactive, begin with
Speaker 2: the end in mind, be put first things first. It
Speaker 2: worked together, I think he I don't know whether he
Speaker 2: created the term centergize, but he used the verb centators.
Speaker 2: Just those seven points just really quarterstones of not just business,
Speaker 2: but how to manage yourself as you as you interact
Speaker 2: with people in a business environment.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I think it was like
Speaker 1: the on ramp to having conversations in which there didn't
Speaker 1: need to be winners and losers in those days, because
Speaker 1: most people were speaking to make a point and they
Speaker 1: didn't really care. They just wanted to fill the air
Speaker 1: with their thoughts when they had an opportunity to say things,
Speaker 1: and rarely was it about constructing something that was really
Speaker 1: good for the group or good for the other people.
Speaker 1: But when you decide I'm going to listen to you fully,
Speaker 1: it costs me nothing and there's nothing for me to
Speaker 1: win or lose here. However, I could gain some understanding
Speaker 1: and maybe we make a better world or a better
Speaker 1: factory or better marriage.
Speaker 2: You know, without question, I agree.
Speaker 1: We could probably make up a whole bunch more questions
Speaker 1: here but what would you say, mark is the most
Speaker 1: important thing in life to you right now?
Speaker 2: Selfishly, I would say my family. I'm referenced earlier in
Speaker 2: our conversation. But if I take a little more holistic
Speaker 2: for you, I think that what I'm troubled with and
Speaker 2: spended a lot of time thinking and talking to you about,
Speaker 2: is that we as a country need to start uniting
Speaker 2: after so many years of division. And I have this
Speaker 2: theory that that which gets politicized gets polarized, and that
Speaker 2: which gets polari it gets paralyzed. We don't get anything done,
Speaker 2: and we're making some unbelievable technological advancements, but from a
Speaker 2: societal standpoint, we're missing out on unbelievable opportunity that's present
Speaker 2: in front of us. And I think that that we
Speaker 2: have to stop dividing, whether it's on a party, whatever
Speaker 2: that division is, and start uniting as people and uniting
Speaker 2: is is a country and is a big old tribe,
Speaker 2: and really start slowing down and caring for that person
Speaker 2: that's across the street that you don't really know and
Speaker 2: you probably won't ever know, but understanding that they're humans
Speaker 2: and they should be cared for. And and so I
Speaker 2: think that for me that again, on that more holistic,
Speaker 2: less selfish standpoint, I think it's what's most important in
Speaker 2: life right now is for all of us to start
Speaker 2: thinking about uniting and caring.
Speaker 1: I like that to just to a great degree. Have
Speaker 1: you got a methodology or has anything kind of come
Speaker 1: up for you that sounds like it might be a
Speaker 1: good way forward for action steps and things that can
Speaker 1: be done to you know, bring that into being in
Speaker 1: our culture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it's surfacing the topic. It's a very arresting topic.
Speaker 2: It's not offensive, but when it's a it's it's it's
Speaker 2: a it's a very arresting topic. People were running so
Speaker 2: fast COVID. I mean I just talked to you why
Speaker 2: I love COVID. Of course COVID was the devil. I
Speaker 2: hate COVID, but it did progress in it of all of us.
Speaker 2: It's in interesting ways. Before people were trying to go digital,
Speaker 2: you didn't go digital. During COVID, you didn't get anything done.
Speaker 2: Uh you know, there were change agents in companies. As
Speaker 2: physicians today we're all we can accommodate change better now
Speaker 2: than we've ever accommodated change. But just stopping the conversation
Speaker 2: the topical conversation and articulating the idea, especially in the
Speaker 2: middle of it, either a heated conversation or an important conversation,
Speaker 2: whether it's a religious conversation, a political conversation, a sports conversation,
Speaker 2: and just talking about the concept of how pressure is
Speaker 2: it is that we have each other and that we
Speaker 2: need to unite rather than divide, just surfacing the topic.
Speaker 2: I do it often, and I've never had anybody argue
Speaker 2: that it's not a good, good process. We just don't
Speaker 2: think about it enough because we've lost our way. Because
Speaker 2: that which gets politicized gets polarized, in that which gets
Speaker 2: polarized gets paralyzed. That's where we're at. I truly believe that,
Speaker 2: and everything, especially with the lockdowns and the things that
Speaker 2: happened societally for the lockdowns, everything became so divided and
Speaker 2: vicious that that we for we really were. I fundamentally
Speaker 2: believe people are good. People are very very good. Some
Speaker 2: can manage outside an internal stimuli us better than others,
Speaker 2: but we all have the same capacity. You can't feel
Speaker 2: more happiness than I can. You do it in a
Speaker 2: different way. I can't feel more pain than you can.
Speaker 2: I feel it in a different way. But if you
Speaker 2: normalize it, it's all one hundred percent. It's we're all
Speaker 2: equal and regardless of race or color, or creed or
Speaker 2: history or background or last name, regardless of that, there
Speaker 2: is a that is a normalizing factor. And if that's
Speaker 2: our point of origin, which it is, you can't defute it.
Speaker 2: You can't turn your back on it. And if it
Speaker 2: is our point of origin, then it's a it's a
Speaker 2: rationale for unity.
Speaker 1: I love the most important thing in life for you
Speaker 1: right now, and I agree with you, and i'm your partner,
Speaker 1: and I also want you to know that there are
Speaker 1: people that have to be taught how to get interested
Speaker 1: in the conversation, possibly you know, to the point where
Speaker 1: they would listen, right, you know. Look the way that
Speaker 1: we're constructing our human beings these days, and what we're
Speaker 1: putting into their head and what we're allowing them to
Speaker 1: do to damage themselves. There's a lot of work to
Speaker 1: be done here. So it's it's it's easy, but it's
Speaker 1: it's simple, but it's not easy, right right.
Speaker 2: And and so you and I met through a mutual
Speaker 2: uh business and personal association through Eric and and Eric
Speaker 2: is part of an organ a peer to peer community
Speaker 2: that I'm that that I'm involved with, and he Eric
Speaker 2: is often and others within the organization have heard me
Speaker 2: use terms that aren't normally associated with business. I talk
Speaker 2: about loving what you do and loving what you're committed to,
Speaker 2: and if you're an investor, loving what you're investing in.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I.
Speaker 2: Talk a lot about a lot about the the idea
Speaker 2: that that we we have to to, you know, unbridle
Speaker 2: the part that restricts us from evolution and growth by
Speaker 2: being open minded and open hearted. I talk about being
Speaker 2: a is this evangelist, which is an arresting topic, but
Speaker 2: people seem to find it interesting. I'm also a business zello.
Speaker 2: I mean business is in part of that conform is is,
Speaker 2: you know, part of our society that makes us click.
Speaker 2: And so I you know, I'm my favorite catalyst. I
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what. These are fundamentals that we
Speaker 1: didn't get growing up in high school. These are fundamentals
Speaker 1: that we should I think we should be teaching second
Speaker 1: and third graders about the value of competition, about the
Speaker 1: value of doing your best all the time, you know,
Speaker 1: just just for today, do the best that you can,
Speaker 1: just for today, you know, And then let tomorrow take
Speaker 1: care of tomorrow. We'll do the best you can tomorrow
Speaker 1: if that's possible. But there's no reason in the world
Speaker 1: why you wouldn't go out there and challenge yourself to
Speaker 1: honor the fact that you're here by accident or maybe
Speaker 1: you're here by design. But why don't you choose one
Speaker 1: of them and use that as a damn good reason
Speaker 1: to do the best you can in your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's our I use a word earlier.
Speaker 2: I think it's our duty to do exactly what you
Speaker 2: just said. I think it's our duty we're given. If
Speaker 2: you're given opportunity, it's your duty to use it, not
Speaker 2: to squander it. I I'm I'm I lived to that conviction.
Speaker 1: So here we are. We've we've we've set the ideal.
Speaker 1: What would you like to leave in the world after
Speaker 1: your life is done?
Speaker 2: Well? I have a couple legacy points which answer and
Speaker 2: facilitate your question kind of in a different way. And
Speaker 2: one of the companies that I have we produce rock
Speaker 2: and roll music and science fiction film. And I take
Speaker 2: a big you know you reference what I do to
Speaker 2: waste time, and I said video games, and I love
Speaker 2: I love movies. I take entertainment really seriously, especially the
Speaker 2: music we produce and the films we produce, because it's
Speaker 2: because it is such entertainment is a critical part of
Speaker 2: of balance. And so I hope you know that some
Speaker 2: of the music that I produce, the films I produce,
Speaker 2: will live forever in a digital world, and I hope
Speaker 2: people will continue to enjoy them and be entertained by
Speaker 2: them long after I'm gone, so that I have a
Speaker 2: physical legacy within the entertainment world that I have aspiration
Speaker 2: will continue to put smile on people's faces for a
Speaker 2: long time.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic, It's it's I think you've done a great
Speaker 1: job of putting into words why people are in that
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry. Many of them could not articulate it
Speaker 1: as well as you just did, But if you ask them,
Speaker 1: a lot of them just would just basically say, what
Speaker 1: else would I do? Right? Right?
Speaker 2: Sure? Absolutely? And I'm privileged to a pre production production,
Speaker 2: post production people, artists, talent, musicians. I'm just surrounded by
Speaker 2: I couldn't play a note. I couldn't I can't humm
Speaker 2: a tomb. I'm a business person that happens toab An
Speaker 2: Erpack came a company, and I manage as a business person,
Speaker 2: not as an entertainment company. But I had been the
Speaker 2: had the privilege and been so honored by so much
Speaker 2: talent around me and Bill. I'm a fanboy period. I'm
Speaker 2: a fanboy. I love consuming what we create. I love
Speaker 2: I love watching it, listening to it. And because of
Speaker 2: that those legacy points, I hope, I hope people will
Speaker 2: continue to entertain and put smiles on people's faces for
Speaker 2: a really long time.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. There's no doubt in my mind
Speaker 1: the people you're associated with who are here after you're
Speaker 1: gone are going to be saying, what would Mark do
Speaker 1: you know? Or I can hear Mark's voice in my head.
Speaker 1: There's no doubt in my mind that you make an
Speaker 1: imprint on some great people. So the baker's question, I
Speaker 1: like to go to the bakery because my particular baker,
Speaker 1: she is a fantastic gall If I buy a dozen
Speaker 1: of anything, she always gives me a free one. I
Speaker 1: think this was something they've brought over from the old country,
Speaker 1: right right, right, So your your banker's question is, uh,
Speaker 1: what is the thing that most people misunderstand about you?
Speaker 2: Well, I'll answer from the as I said, I'm a
Speaker 2: strategist and I'm a consultant, and I think that as consultant,
Speaker 2: I try to maintain objectivity, especially as I'm consulting a company,
Speaker 2: and the way that that objectivity services itself. And I
Speaker 2: think that where people misunderstand is the idea that my
Speaker 2: client is not the CEO or a C suite member.
Speaker 2: My client is the overall good of the company. And
Speaker 2: when someone brings me in, they're the ones to sign
Speaker 2: the check. They're the ones that you know, approved and
Speaker 2: created the gateway. They often have that sense of ownership
Speaker 2: and in connection, and I definitely build try to build
Speaker 2: meaningful business relationships. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: as a consultant, I'm not serving an individual or group
Speaker 2: of individuals. My focus and fairness is on the good
Speaker 2: of the company. And sometimes folks don't like that because
Speaker 2: they we like preferential treats. But my and I found
Speaker 2: that if I lived that, not only can I honor, respect,
Speaker 2: and perform for my clients, but I can also put
Speaker 2: my head on a pillow and sleep at night.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and you kind of sparked some thoughts
Speaker 1: in my mind. Do you ever find yourself working across
Speaker 1: the table from people who are asking you to go
Speaker 1: out and fix their thirty five hundred employees.
Speaker 2: Yes, and.
Speaker 1: What's your response to that?
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, I happen to really respect and this is
Speaker 2: you know, this has been a very interesting conversation. We
Speaker 2: reflected and talked about some really important organization development ideas
Speaker 2: over the last thirty years. Chain of command is something
Speaker 2: that you know, at one point the structure and Rigoro
Speaker 2: chain expand work. Then the world wanted a flat organization
Speaker 2: because every one of what I happen when you're trying
Speaker 2: to disseminate from an organizational development standpoint, when you're trying
Speaker 2: to affect positive change, when you're trying to create cultural movement,
Speaker 2: when you're trying to redirect the focus of the energy
Speaker 2: of the company outwardly to an inward focus. You need
Speaker 2: that to be a systemic, enterprise wide event and a movement,
Speaker 2: if you will. So the only way to manage that
Speaker 2: isn't to have the cheerleader CEO or the cheerleader or
Speaker 2: chief HR. It's got to work through the organization, through
Speaker 2: the organizational structure. And so and the way that I
Speaker 2: build that into the program is I don't have a team.
Speaker 2: An internal panel of just the senior executives identify. If
Speaker 2: there's a company has four organizational ranks, if they have ten,
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. I get representatives from each organizational rank and
Speaker 2: they they set on the panel and they give input
Speaker 2: and insights and intelligence. They and it's not necessarily a vote,
Speaker 2: it's insights and intelligence. Because my responsibility is the outsiders.
Speaker 2: The objective person is the business alchemist of merging science
Speaker 2: and art. It's my responsibility to take those input inputs,
Speaker 2: filter them and then build something sustainably through that's going
Speaker 2: to positively affect the company. And so but what I
Speaker 2: do is I make sure that the people that I
Speaker 2: select for each organization level are good verbal communicators and
Speaker 2: they have a voice within their peer group. So and
Speaker 2: we enroll the organization for the first day, I engage.
Speaker 2: I speak to representatives throughout the organization the first day
Speaker 2: and tell them what's going to happen. Because everybody you
Speaker 2: bring someone like myself in, some people are happy, some
Speaker 2: people are afraid, some people are energized, some people are worried.
Speaker 2: Is this a clever way of of headcount reduction? Is
Speaker 2: you know, am I going to lose my job. All
Speaker 2: of those things are real. And the way that you
Speaker 2: fight that and you and you create a medium for
Speaker 2: positive growth and evolution is directness, openness, and honesty and
Speaker 2: seeking to understand before you understood number five and seven
Speaker 2: and so share you listen to the people and make
Speaker 2: sure the organization knows you're listening to the totality of
Speaker 2: the organization. You're going to take those insights and inputs
Speaker 2: in and reflect that in the work that we do.
Speaker 2: And that that's the mechanism that I rely on to
Speaker 2: to ensure that we have system wide embracing of whatever
Speaker 2: we create.
Speaker 1: Fantastic. Yeah, that's a I have a candid question that
Speaker 1: I always ask after somebody asked me to fix their organization.
Speaker 2: What's that?
Speaker 1: How long do you want me to take to show
Speaker 1: you that you're the problem?
Speaker 2: You know? Some very often times you know what what
Speaker 2: I I uphemize advice? What are the ceiling points? And
Speaker 2: and very often, very often it's management and it's it's
Speaker 2: senior leadership or it's a CEO, or very often it
Speaker 2: is And that's why I now I have a team
Speaker 2: where I have there So there's there's three levels that
Speaker 2: we we we we attempt to serve the a or
Speaker 2: a company that's that's focusing on organization development, and there's
Speaker 2: and there's Number one is is CEO to CEO. I've
Speaker 2: had the privilege of having over seventy five established large
Speaker 2: corporation one on one CEO consultancy relationships in my career,
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty comfortable talking to anybody about anything. What
Speaker 2: my CEO consultation practice, which we don't promote because a
Speaker 2: lot of CEOs don't want to tell people that they
Speaker 2: have this type of insight the outside. But I'm not
Speaker 2: a coach. I help them make the most difficult decisions
Speaker 2: of their of their of their that they're facing that
Speaker 2: day and and again, so you don't necessarily promote that.
Speaker 2: The second level is c suite. So I have an
Speaker 2: unbelievably gifted person that is really get really really special
Speaker 2: at it's at leadership alignment. And then I have another
Speaker 2: operational person who former retired captain of the Navy, who
Speaker 2: is the operationalized person that ensures that every person in
Speaker 2: the organization is possibly impacted.
Speaker 1: But we we.
Speaker 2: Don't go to an engagement and do one or two
Speaker 2: of those three. Part of the deal, part of the
Speaker 2: ticket part of the process, part of the invoice is
Speaker 2: if we don't manage communication points with all three of
Speaker 2: those audiences, there will it will never it might be
Speaker 2: sold in, it will never be executed in. It it
Speaker 2: won't positively impact the company. And I've learned that over time.
Speaker 2: And therefore what the what you outline bill is it's
Speaker 2: always somebody group of somebodies. So the only way that
Speaker 2: you ensure that you optimize it is full coverage. And
Speaker 2: that and and I don't have the patience to manage
Speaker 2: c suite. I don't have the patience to manage the
Speaker 2: rest of the organization. I deal with the CEO, and
Speaker 2: I have two individuals that are gifted. If those other
Speaker 2: two audiences that are critically get evolution.
Speaker 1: Done, yeah, you you can't leave it to the chain
Speaker 1: of command to change the culture. They have to get
Speaker 1: You have to get the informal leaders at every level,
Speaker 1: in every part of the organization to buy into it.
Speaker 1: And then they are they become the trim tabs for change.
Speaker 1: They're that that little part of the writer that is
Speaker 1: so small, but it turns the Queen Mary right, and
Speaker 1: she would she would take many four miles to get there.
Speaker 2: One of the things that I adopted subveral years ago
Speaker 2: was a a prenatal approach. Prenatal me as an approach
Speaker 2: to consulting. What does that mean? One of the hardest
Speaker 2: worst parts in life is sometimes bad things happen. And
Speaker 2: before doctors really didn't talk to people about the bad
Speaker 2: things has happened. They reacted to it when they happened.
Speaker 2: And then there was a movement about fifteen twenty years
Speaker 2: ago where very hard conversations were began so it wouldn't
Speaker 2: be this titanic blow to someone when bad news happens,
Speaker 2: and so they talk about all options, not just the good,
Speaker 2: not just the bad, to all options, here's what might happen.
Speaker 2: And I had that conversation with the senior leadership team,
Speaker 2: and I determine how they reacted to that, and I say,
Speaker 2: here's probably what's going to happen. And someone's going to
Speaker 2: be painful, and someone's going to be on you and
Speaker 2: someone's going to be on her. But this is how
Speaker 2: we're going to get it done. And if they are
Speaker 2: receptive to that, then we consider engaging. If they aren't,
Speaker 2: then I move on because it's not going to work.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do anything for a fee just
Speaker 2: to to you know, collect the fee. We we spend
Speaker 2: a significant amount of due diligence time making sure there's
Speaker 2: compatiblyon and fit in what we see that the organization
Speaker 2: direction should be and the team of people that need
Speaker 2: to live it and breathe in and execute it upon
Speaker 2: operational engagement.
Speaker 1: It sounds terrific to me, Mark, I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: That's the end of our regular questions. Do you have
Speaker 1: any questions for me?
Speaker 2: So? Are are you? The one one question that that
Speaker 2: that I continue to think about is are you creating
Speaker 2: any type of correlation or any type of directional summary
Speaker 2: for the questions and interviews in totality or are these
Speaker 2: living breathing organisms that live on their own uh as
Speaker 2: as separate units.
Speaker 1: I think it's a great question looking ahead. We did
Speaker 1: this in such a way that it's not going to
Speaker 1: be a poll. Okay, right, These are open ended questions.
Speaker 1: No two people are going to answer these seemingly straightforward
Speaker 1: questions the same way. But at the end of the
Speaker 1: day we'll be able to use AI to grab some
Speaker 1: correlations out of all of the data. Basically tell us
Speaker 1: you know, is there something that you know is that
Speaker 1: supports the whole identity culture or are human beings fundamentally
Speaker 1: the same as you and I were saying earlier. They
Speaker 1: just express themselves differently in a group, and in many
Speaker 1: cases they make their choices not for either livelihood reasons
Speaker 1: or anything else. Maybe it's just to be accepted or
Speaker 1: to feel loved or all that kind of stuff. We're
Speaker 1: going to find out what we find out at the end.
Speaker 1: But I'm amassing a load of information. You're my I
Speaker 1: think forty first interview out of one hundred, and I'm
Speaker 1: very pleased to have had you here. I really wanted
Speaker 1: to do to dive in here and do two things.
Speaker 1: One is to learn to be a better a better listener,
Speaker 1: a better interviewer. That was my selfish goal. And then
Speaker 1: the second, you know, to ask better questions, deeper questions
Speaker 1: that people could really sink their teeth into. And then
Speaker 1: the other thing is is that when folks listen to
Speaker 1: these played back, Because I've got the gamut, I've got
Speaker 1: every kind of person that you can think of so far,
Speaker 1: and I can only imagine what we've got less left
Speaker 1: in the next next sixty Sure someone's gonna hear somebody
Speaker 1: who says something that makes a difference in their life
Speaker 1: right now today. I'm that's my goal, right, that's that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: got it? That's good. That's that's really smart. I like
Speaker 1: that a lot. That that that is of noble pursuit.
Speaker 1: What else would I do? Well, Mark, thank you again?
Speaker 1: Anything else to wrap up, anything you'd like to say
Speaker 1: about the experience or anything else it's on your mind.
Speaker 2: Great questions, great interaction. Uh, you know, the best presentation
Speaker 2: isn't a presentation, it's a conversation. And the way that
Speaker 2: you craft this and you manage it, it's we had
Speaker 2: a conversation. It wasn't an interview. We just had a chat.
Speaker 2: And as I said, you know, I kind of made
Speaker 2: that promise to myself and have now selfishly fulfilled the
Speaker 2: fact that you know, you've helped me think about things
Speaker 2: in different ways that I haven't thought about before and
Speaker 2: I'm a better person for it. So I thank you
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I thank you right back.
Speaker 1: And kind of like you know, Elon and Joch having
Speaker 1: a chat right.
Speaker 2: Only we didn't include any any uh digital pigs in
Speaker 2: the conversation. No digital pigs were engaged.
Speaker 1: In this exactly, but and no f bombs, right right right.
Speaker 1: So with with all of that, I'm going to wrap
Speaker 1: it up. Folks at home. We are Simple Questions for
Speaker 1: one hundred people, and I'm Bill Correll and Mark. It's
Speaker 1: been my pleasure to have you here, mister Mark Alan Stewart,
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, have a great day.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Bill.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Simple Questions for one hundred People,
Speaker 1: part of the x Video podcast Network. You can find
Speaker 1: every episode at xvadio dot com, slash podcasts, the Apple
Speaker 1: podcast app, Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and wherever you find
Speaker 1: podcasts