Speaker 1: Dark Cast Network.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Dark Side of podcasting.
Speaker 1: Hi guys, I'm Courtney and I'm Lisa, and we are
Speaker 1: the hosts of the Book of the Dead, a true
Speaker 1: crime podcast based out of New Jersey, where we tell
Speaker 1: you about the most obscure cases that you may have
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Speaker 1: the Dead wherever you get your podcasts. Bye, guys.
Speaker 3: Devil is on his way.
Speaker 2: Devil is on his way.
Speaker 4: Devil is on his way.
Speaker 2: Mother, the Devil gonna make you pay fall to your knees.
Speaker 2: Devil is on his way by fall t and Devil
Speaker 2: gonna make you paid five T andne Devil is.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 2: Hey, y'all, welcome back to Mountain Murderers. I'm Heather and
Speaker 2: I'm dealing. I'm the birthday girl and Heather is old.
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm embracing it.
Speaker 2: So let me guess. Are you at the age where
Speaker 2: you're gonna permanently be this age or are you going
Speaker 2: to keep adding to it?
Speaker 4: I'm gonna keep adding to it. Let's rack up some
Speaker 4: numbers here. You know, I'm in my mem era and
Speaker 4: I don't even have grandkids.
Speaker 2: See that's my philosophy. I'm like, I don't care, I
Speaker 2: can't wait. I want to be like I'm trying to
Speaker 2: be eighty and so when I say something, people need
Speaker 2: to listen right, Like my words have weight, the wisdom
Speaker 2: of age and experience.
Speaker 4: Right this year, I'm only interested in growing some a okay,
Speaker 4: wearing a moo moo, comfort a house a house coat
Speaker 4: or house dress. And that's about it.
Speaker 2: Oh, so you are in your mem away.
Speaker 4: I yeah, I'm in my mem era. Okay, it's really sexy.
Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 4: I want to give a big shout out to Aaron.
Speaker 4: She is our newest patron. Hey Erin, you are sponsoring
Speaker 4: today's episode.
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Speaker 4: on here in the Mountain Murder studio.
Speaker 2: You do, and you make Heather's birthday a very special one.
Speaker 4: Very special birthday, Dylan. So far, only two of you
Speaker 4: have wished me happy birthday.
Speaker 2: Oh only two of me?
Speaker 4: Well you and my son.
Speaker 2: Only two people, that's but that's the two people.
Speaker 4: You know why, because I keep it LK low key.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're not advertising because me Ma, me.
Speaker 4: Mile, don't advertise. Okay me, MAM's gonna sit here on
Speaker 4: the porch. And if you won't come holler, you can.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna judge everybody running up and down the road.
Speaker 2: They must have a lot of money for gas.
Speaker 4: Burning up them damn roads. Dylan, all right, are you
Speaker 4: ready to get into today's case? It is quite a mystery.
Speaker 2: Uh yes, The little bit you told me about this
Speaker 2: story is a real head scratcher, And so let's just
Speaker 2: jump right in.
Speaker 4: We love a good Mountain murders mystery, So let's get started.
Speaker 4: In two thousand and eight, fifty one year old Michael
Speaker 4: Herron lived in Blunt County, Tennessee. When I hear Blunt County,
Speaker 4: I can't help but think yesterday was four twenty, they'd
Speaker 4: be smoking some blunts in Blunt County.
Speaker 2: Uh yes, what. I used to live near Blunt County,
Speaker 2: and every time I saw that on signs and whatnot,
Speaker 2: I'm lucky.
Speaker 4: Baby lighted up, which spark, just do be and get
Speaker 4: laced behind the barn.
Speaker 2: Put something in the air.
Speaker 4: After graduating from high school, Mike worked for the National
Speaker 4: Park Service trimming trails in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Speaker 4: Born and raised in the area, Mike loved the Smoky Mountains.
Speaker 2: You know, it really is a beautiful part of the country.
Speaker 2: No matter where you get into the Appalachian Mountains along
Speaker 2: along the Range, if you will, up and down the
Speaker 2: East Coast, it's just a beautiful country, right, And I
Speaker 2: guess some people would say the Smoky Mountains even more so.
Speaker 2: It's one of the most popular, if not the most
Speaker 2: popular national park.
Speaker 4: It is the most visited national park at the moment. Yeah,
Speaker 4: which has been for the last few.
Speaker 2: Years, which is crazy, and certainly since the pandemic. It's gosh,
Speaker 2: it's just it's scouted the visitation and has skyrocketed. And
Speaker 2: I would argue the quality of visitor has changed. You're
Speaker 2: seeing people leave more than footprints. But that's another story
Speaker 2: for another day. I reckon.
Speaker 4: I recently discovered they've closed down several trails in the
Speaker 4: Great Smokies due to bears. So due to bear activity activity,
Speaker 4: a lot of black bears in these mountains.
Speaker 2: And you made a good point on that that some
Speaker 2: people don't follow the rules, and you know, don't feed
Speaker 2: the wildlife is one of the number one rules whenever
Speaker 2: you're visiting their house.
Speaker 4: Absolutely when you are outdoors, there are plenty of signs,
Speaker 4: lots of signage in the park that will tell you
Speaker 4: do not feed the bears. You can't feed the bears.
Speaker 2: And it's for the bears good. But what it does
Speaker 2: is it desensitizes the bears to human contact. And it
Speaker 2: also had they make a connection from when they see
Speaker 2: a human they can maybe get some food food exactly,
Speaker 2: which means instead of will you right, typically wild animals
Speaker 2: will go away from you if you get near them,
Speaker 2: and then you know, I mean, I think a lot
Speaker 2: many of us have seen these Pigeon Forge bears, these
Speaker 2: Gatlinburg bears that just kind of hang out on the
Speaker 2: street corner.
Speaker 3: They want some fudge, and those bears are huge, and
Speaker 3: people get within like two or three feet of them,
Speaker 3: and I just I just could never do it. I've
Speaker 3: seen people take their little kids and set them up
Speaker 3: there beside these four or five hundred pound bears and
Speaker 3: take pictures.
Speaker 4: Dylan Nobody said people were smart. That is a misconception
Speaker 4: that humans are smart.
Speaker 2: It's natural selection, and we got to quit getting in
Speaker 2: the way of it.
Speaker 4: I concur Mike love the Great Smoky Mountains. And you
Speaker 4: know what, Dylan, I love the Great Smoky Mountains. I
Speaker 4: lived most of my life just on the edge of
Speaker 4: the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, as well as the
Speaker 4: Blue Ridge Parkway.
Speaker 2: And for the people who are not familiar with the
Speaker 2: Great Smoky Mountains, why do they call him the Great
Speaker 2: Smoky Mountains.
Speaker 4: Well, let's get to that, Dylan. So the Great Smoky
Speaker 4: Mountains are evenly split between Tennessee and North Carolina, covering
Speaker 4: five hundred and twenty thousand acres. Known for their misty
Speaker 4: smoky look, the Smokies are part of the larger Appalachian
Speaker 4: Mountain Range. The mist over the mountains is from plant
Speaker 4: emissions mixing with air moisture.
Speaker 2: Okay, did you know that? Yeah? I did not know that.
Speaker 4: Well, now you know that.
Speaker 2: I kind of thought it was maybe and I'm not
Speaker 2: even being funny. I thought it was maybe smog from
Speaker 2: the you know, larger areas around the mountains kind of
Speaker 2: drifting over.
Speaker 4: The mountains because they had smog in the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that doesn't make sense, does It makes.
Speaker 4: Zero sense, Dylan. But I've come to expect nothing.
Speaker 2: Less from you. Thank you for that, nothing more from you.
Speaker 4: The Great Smokey Mountains National Park is currently the most
Speaker 4: visited park in the United States. As you mentioned, Dylan,
Speaker 4: it is love to death. They are among the oldest
Speaker 4: mountains in the world, about two hundred to three hundred
Speaker 4: million years old. The mountains feature over eight hundred hiking trails,
Speaker 4: including parts of the Appalachian Trail. You'll also find historic
Speaker 4: sites like old cabins, farms, churches, and mills from early
Speaker 4: Appalachian settlers. So I'm a ninth generation resident of this area.
Speaker 4: I've said that multiple times on the pod. You'll find
Speaker 4: my family name in many communities surrounding the park, and
Speaker 4: in fact, one of my ancestors is featured in a
Speaker 4: display at the Oconalufty Visitor Center in Cherokee, North Carolina.
Speaker 2: Oh Real.
Speaker 4: So I'm very proud to call this area home. In
Speaker 4: this area, the Blue Ridge Parkway and the Smoky Mountains
Speaker 4: National Park intersect with private properties. Now around nine thirty
Speaker 4: am on Saturday, August twenty third of two thousand, and eight,
Speaker 4: Karen called his son Andy. He told Andy that he
Speaker 4: was planning to leave his condo in Marville, Tennessee. And
Speaker 4: I know it's Marraville because if I say Maryville, someone
Speaker 4: will come at me with a pitchfork.
Speaker 2: Well, if you say Maryville, people know that you're not
Speaker 2: right from her, You ain't from here. It's kind of
Speaker 2: like Cherville. It's not Cherryville. It's terrible.
Speaker 4: He also planned to stop by Andy's house to pick
Speaker 4: up a lawnmower and a trailer. And by the way,
Speaker 4: Andy is an adult. This is Mike's adult son.
Speaker 2: You know, you see these properties that are around the
Speaker 2: edge of the park and that butt up against it
Speaker 2: if you will, which and I've always been envious of
Speaker 2: having like a property like this because I mean, these
Speaker 2: lands will, as far as we know for it always
Speaker 2: be a national park. It's never going to change. And
Speaker 2: if you have a big, nice piece of property that
Speaker 2: butt's right up against that, I mean you have your
Speaker 2: own little paradise.
Speaker 4: Really years ago, my friend was house sitting for this couple.
Speaker 4: They had a beautiful, like what you would consider a
Speaker 4: beautiful mountain home, beautiful view, like million dollar view, and
Speaker 4: they owned like hundreds of acres of mountaintop property. We
Speaker 4: had access to their ATV and we could go up
Speaker 4: to the very top of the mountain. But their property
Speaker 4: backed up against the National Park. Oh wow, And it
Speaker 4: was gorgeous, like just incredibly beautiful. And to own basically
Speaker 4: a mountain top, yeah, I know, and have access to
Speaker 4: these woods and you're just a stone's throwaway from the park.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: You know. Sometimes people, in my opinion, will go through
Speaker 2: it to go to its stream lengths to get that
Speaker 2: beautiful million dollar view you're describing, and just cut down
Speaker 2: like a ton of trees, which I kind of think
Speaker 2: is kind of a dick move. Like you're living in
Speaker 2: the middle of this conserved or next to this conserved land,
Speaker 2: and to just like hack to, you know, an acre
Speaker 2: or two of trees down so you can see better.
Speaker 2: This kind of seems counterintuitive to me. I would never
Speaker 2: I don't think I would ever do something like that.
Speaker 4: I understand. I was just thinking the drive to this
Speaker 4: property was so steep you needed a four wheel drive
Speaker 4: to get to the top.
Speaker 2: Oh. I could only imagine.
Speaker 4: I often had to park my vehicle at the bottom
Speaker 4: and hit your ride up in my friend's vehicle or
Speaker 4: in on the ATV because you couldn't even make it
Speaker 4: to the top in a car.
Speaker 2: So you guys were having like ragers.
Speaker 4: My little Honda would barely go up the mountain like
Speaker 4: there was no way.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you'all were having raging parties up there in
Speaker 2: these people's million dollar house.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I guess if the two of us and my
Speaker 4: son hanging out grilling and sitting on the porch is
Speaker 4: a rager, it sounds. Actually, we both had kiddie pools
Speaker 4: that we bought, the little plastic round pools, and we
Speaker 4: would do what we called adult play dates. So in
Speaker 4: the after we worked together, so in the afternoon when
Speaker 4: we would get off work, we would go to this
Speaker 4: house because he house said these people's house. For like
Speaker 4: six months, we would fill up our pools and we
Speaker 4: would make alcoholic like root beer floats and stuff and
Speaker 4: just sit in our kiddie pools.
Speaker 2: Oh and just look sitting stare Yeah, sitting and looking, yes,
Speaker 2: in your kiddie pool.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 2: It was great with a drink.
Speaker 4: We had so much fun.
Speaker 2: Sounds such a fun guy.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: He also planned to stop by Annie's house to pick
Speaker 4: up a lawnmower and a trailer. The family owned a
Speaker 4: one hundred acre farm property in Happy Valley, Tennessee. Mike
Speaker 4: planned to take the mower over to the farm. Now
Speaker 4: it is my understanding that Happy Valley is about thirty
Speaker 4: minutes half hour from Maryville. Mike had previously left a
Speaker 4: voicemail for twenty five year old Matt, his other son,
Speaker 4: essentially like conveying the same message. Hey, I'm picking up
Speaker 4: this mower going out to the farm. Cut the grass,
Speaker 4: be there all weekend. Mike was known to visit the
Speaker 4: farm nearly every weekend, so this trip was nothing out
Speaker 4: of the ordinary. I'm very jealous. I wish I had
Speaker 4: a farm where I could spend my weekends.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that sounds incredible.
Speaker 4: Now, the mower was shared among the father and the
Speaker 4: two sons, sometimes used as part of their contracting work
Speaker 4: to clean up around buildings and houses they constructed. Andy
Speaker 4: and Mike passed this mower back and forth a lot.
Speaker 4: During the call with Andy, Mike said he wanted to
Speaker 4: go to the farm to cut down tall grass on
Speaker 4: a nearby forty acre tract. Now, this parcel was owned
Speaker 4: by neighbors. They were missionaries who had been away for
Speaker 4: a while. Nice guy offering to mow their yard, mow
Speaker 4: their property.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and these are the type of people that
Speaker 2: are basically tending the land, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: They're doing what's best for to to help with wildfires
Speaker 2: things like that, or to help, you know, keep the weed,
Speaker 2: the weeds from overtaking your pasture grass. You want to
Speaker 2: keep it trimmed back. And you know, I think we've
Speaker 2: all known people like this, or you may be people
Speaker 2: like this. They have this equipment. I'm sure it's a
Speaker 2: rather expensive mower. It's probably a very large mower, and
Speaker 2: they just leave it on a trailer and whoever needs
Speaker 2: it goes and grabs it. And you know, does all
Speaker 2: this different work with it?
Speaker 4: Very nice?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it must be nice, must be nice.
Speaker 4: Mike and Andy lived about a half an hour apart.
Speaker 4: At that moment, Andy wasn't at home. He told his
Speaker 4: dad that he was on his way back. If Mike
Speaker 4: wanted to wait around and Andy could help him load
Speaker 4: the mower. If Mike was in a hurry, he was
Speaker 4: welcome to load it himself. Andy drove down the road
Speaker 4: toward his home and his dad passed him like going
Speaker 4: the opposite direction, Mike was driving on Gateway Road with
Speaker 4: the mower loaded on a trailer, heading in a direction
Speaker 4: that showed he was taking the parkway over the mountain
Speaker 4: to Happy Valley. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Andy
Speaker 4: did not speak to his father again. Around eleven am,
Speaker 4: a neighbor saw Mike pulling into the driveway near Bell
Speaker 4: Branch Road. The man noticed Mike was hauling some kind
Speaker 4: of equipment on a trailer. Mike's property was at the
Speaker 4: end of the road, so he had to pass other
Speaker 4: farms and estates to get to his one hundred acres.
Speaker 4: About half an hour later, two other neighbors saw Mike
Speaker 4: leave on an ATV like a four wheeler. Mike waved
Speaker 4: at them as he rode into the woods. The day
Speaker 4: passed without any further contact from Mike. Matt and Andy
Speaker 4: didn't think much about it. They didn't speak with their
Speaker 4: dad multiple times a day. Also, you know, cel phone
Speaker 4: reception could be I guess a little wonky out in
Speaker 4: this area. Oh, I'm sure the three will meet at
Speaker 4: work on Monday. I'm unsure if Mike planned to return
Speaker 4: the mower on Sunday or like Monday morning. But on Sunday,
Speaker 4: around two PM, Mike's mother, Alma, contacted Andy and Matt.
Speaker 4: Their grandmother was upset because she had not heard from
Speaker 4: her son Mike all weekend, which was unusual. Alma asked
Speaker 4: if they'd spoken to their father. Alma and Mike's dad
Speaker 4: lived just a short walk from the Bell Branch property,
Speaker 4: and Happy Valley literally takes about five minutes to get
Speaker 4: from their home to their son's property. They went to
Speaker 4: their son's house Sunday morning, knocked, but no one answered.
Speaker 4: They didn't go inside, but they saw Mike's truck in
Speaker 4: the driveway with the trailer the mowers still loaded on
Speaker 4: the trailer, appearing as if he's not taken the mower
Speaker 4: off the trailer at all. Okay, now, first, Andy and
Speaker 4: Matt aren't really concerned about this news. It didn't seem
Speaker 4: strange that Mike was unavailable. He kept dozens of chickens
Speaker 4: and about forty head of cattle on the farm, so
Speaker 4: he did spend a lot of time outdoors, often working
Speaker 4: on various projects. When you've got animals livestock, there's usually
Speaker 4: a lot of work that needs to be done.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's always something to do, someone or some
Speaker 2: animal that needs checked.
Speaker 4: On a fence that needs mending.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he could be worried about you know, maybe some
Speaker 2: pregnant heifers or you know who knows, Like you said,
Speaker 2: a fence that needs to be either checked or mended.
Speaker 2: Cause you have a working farm like this, there is
Speaker 2: a lot of work and it just never stops.
Speaker 4: Happy Valley, like I mentioned, wasn't very self unfriendly, Matt.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Matt. Mike did install a landline in the house,
Speaker 4: but that wasn't very helpful if he was working outside,
Speaker 4: you know, caring for livestock, or he was out in
Speaker 4: the woods. The men to their grandmother not to worry
Speaker 4: too much. Mike was probably just out working the property.
Speaker 4: He knew the area around his farm well since he
Speaker 4: was born and raised in Happy Valley. Again, his parents
Speaker 4: live just a stones throw away from him.
Speaker 2: Yes, so he probably knows all these woods like the
Speaker 2: back of his.
Speaker 4: Hands, exactly. It wasn't like he would get lost in
Speaker 4: the woods, and they assured Almah that Mike would likely
Speaker 4: get in touch as soon as he made it back home.
Speaker 4: By Monday, Almah's maternal instincts were heightened. She could just
Speaker 4: sense that something terrible had happened because she had not
Speaker 4: heard from Mike all weekend, and he had not come home.
Speaker 4: Early Monday morning, Andy and Matt knew they needed to
Speaker 4: find Mike. Usually, Mike stayed at the condo in Maryville
Speaker 4: during the week and spent the weekends at the farm.
Speaker 4: Matt drove to his dad's condo, but there was no
Speaker 4: sign of him. The condo didn't raise any red flags.
Speaker 4: It was tidy and in order, just how Mike usually
Speaker 4: kept it. The bed was made, nothing seemed out of place.
Speaker 4: Matt checked the garage. Mike's truck was gone, which made
Speaker 4: sense since he had taken it out to Happy Valley.
Speaker 4: Mike owned a sporty Mercedes convertible, but it was still
Speaker 4: in the garage. Later, Matt and Andy met up and
Speaker 4: decided to drive to Happy Valley to check on Mike
Speaker 4: at the farmhouse. Alma had gone down to the house
Speaker 4: a second time. When she called her grandson's she explained
Speaker 4: that Mike's four wheeler was now parked in the front yard.
Speaker 4: The truck sat in the same spot it had been
Speaker 4: with the trailer and mower, so from the sounds of it,
Speaker 4: the four wheeler's placement was odd, like maybe he had
Speaker 4: planned to park it there for just a few minutes
Speaker 4: before moving it.
Speaker 2: It's probably somewhere he would never leave it, right because
Speaker 2: you have this nice stuff like this, you use it
Speaker 2: for work, not just fun. And even if it was
Speaker 2: just for fun, people would typically take care of these
Speaker 2: types of items. They're always put away, you know, usually
Speaker 2: covered in some you know, ship garage, pole, barn, just
Speaker 2: a roof, you know, concrete pad, whatever it is to
Speaker 2: keep it out of the elements and so. And people
Speaker 2: typically have habits when especially around homestead like this, you
Speaker 2: know you'll never find You usually find their stuff in
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 4: Place, like a carport.
Speaker 2: You can almost count on it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly when the men arrived, their father's truck was
Speaker 4: just as Alma described. They noticed the windows were down
Speaker 4: and all four doors were unlocked. Mike had left his cash, ID, keys,
Speaker 4: and cell phone on the truck seat. Additionally, the brothers
Speaker 4: made another strange observation. Mike's truck was usually parked differently.
Speaker 4: You see, Mike allowed a school bus to park on
Speaker 4: his property during weekday mornings, and to make space for
Speaker 4: the bus, Mike had to park in a certain way
Speaker 4: and he's not parked in this.
Speaker 2: Specific way, so the bus can get in and out. Right.
Speaker 4: They also saw this four wheeler in the yard. Mike
Speaker 4: had bought a brand new four wheeler and this was
Speaker 4: the old one. That meant Mike was still using the
Speaker 4: new ATV. Matt worried that Mike was in the woods
Speaker 4: somewhere hurt or injured, and that's why he had not
Speaker 4: made it back home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that might be your first thought
Speaker 2: when you finally figure out that maybe something's not right
Speaker 2: or maybe something's wrong.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, at this point, alarm bells have to
Speaker 4: be ringing, right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you know that he knows the area very well,
Speaker 2: has grown up there and has probably been all over
Speaker 2: his chunk of land. I don't know how when he
Speaker 2: came to acquired or whatever. But so at this point
Speaker 2: you have to be thinking the only reason he hasn't
Speaker 2: returned because certainly the state of his truck seemed like
Speaker 2: he didn't intend on being gone long. Right.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, most people do not leave the windows down
Speaker 4: on their vehicle for more than a few hours, especially
Speaker 4: not overnight or for several days. Not have inclement weather.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because in the mountains, I mean it can a
Speaker 2: storm can well happens everywhere, but especially in the mountains,
Speaker 2: you can't really always see a storm coming, and next
Speaker 2: thing you know, you don't it's raining and you don't
Speaker 2: expect it, little shower, little bursts of rain, and there's
Speaker 2: all your valuables, which I'm sure he feels very safe
Speaker 2: here on his property, but still just leaving it out
Speaker 2: in the open, all the windows down, your vehicles exposed.
Speaker 2: It seems weird, right, It does seem weird, you know.
Speaker 4: And you mentioned the little rain bursts of rain, and
Speaker 4: that happens all the time in the mountains, especially where
Speaker 4: we lived. The weather would not mention at all anything
Speaker 4: about like a afternoon shower storm. But you can pretty
Speaker 4: much guarantee, especially in the warmer months, that you're gonna
Speaker 4: get a spring shower, summer shower.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like there's micro climates in the mountain
Speaker 2: regions that create their own weather in a weird way.
Speaker 4: It's kind of odd, yeah, because it can be raining
Speaker 4: like just down the road, but dry at your house. Yeah,
Speaker 4: how is it raining like five hundred feet from here.
Speaker 2: You'll have some areas that always will get the rain,
Speaker 2: and then other areas don't get it as often. I mean,
Speaker 2: you can almost count on it.
Speaker 4: I feel like when I lived in Maggie Valley as
Speaker 4: a young person, you could expect to get rain like
Speaker 4: every day in the summer. Yeah, those out fail you
Speaker 4: were going to get an afternoon shower.
Speaker 2: Those evening thunderstorms. I worked outside for many years in
Speaker 2: this area and on the North Carolina side, But it's
Speaker 2: all very similar. And when I was younger, lived on
Speaker 2: the Tennessee side, and yeah, you can. You can watch
Speaker 2: these storms kind of just come up out of nothing,
Speaker 2: like skies clear, and then you'll just see brewing in
Speaker 2: the distance, like just behind the mountains, just black.
Speaker 4: It would just be a little flash, like you might
Speaker 4: get ten fifteen minutes of rain and then it stops.
Speaker 4: The sun comes back out.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 4: The rest of the day. I mean, it's very strange.
Speaker 4: But because of that, I would assume Mike would not
Speaker 4: leave the windows down right By noon, the men had
Speaker 4: alerted relatives that Mike was missing. Mike and their mother
Speaker 4: had been divorced for like six or seven years, but
Speaker 4: they called her. She lived in Maryville. She was concerned.
Speaker 4: I mean, despite the fact their divorce, it seems like
Speaker 4: they still got along, you know, amiable. She drove to
Speaker 4: Happy Valley to help her sons look for their father.
Speaker 4: Mike was healthy but suffered from high blood pressure. His
Speaker 4: brother Jerry had the same idea as Matt that Mike
Speaker 4: had suffered a medical emergency or had gotten injured in
Speaker 4: the woods. The old four wheeler had a flat tire.
Speaker 4: After Matt and Andy fixed it, they used it to
Speaker 4: survey the one hundred and forty acres. They drove trucks
Speaker 4: where possible Mike had been caring for the neighbor's property
Speaker 4: while they were in the Philippines those missionaries that area
Speaker 4: was searched. Matt and Andy spent hours looking for their dad.
Speaker 4: Relatives drove to campgrounds around and inside the Great Smoky
Speaker 4: Mountains Park to search for Mike. When they couldn't find him,
Speaker 4: they decided it was time to call the police.
Speaker 2: So they made a good go of it. They tried
Speaker 2: everything they knew to do, and now I'm sure at
Speaker 2: this point they're very worried.
Speaker 4: This is scary.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean, how could it not.
Speaker 4: Be, Well, just the unknown. Anytime someone goes missing, it's
Speaker 4: very troubling for the family, but it's particularly scary when
Speaker 4: you're in this like a landscape like this, you know,
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, rural isolated.
Speaker 2: It's the top of landscaratists. You could be within fifty
Speaker 2: feet of someone, and if they're incapacitated, knocked out or
Speaker 2: something like that and they can't they don't hear you,
Speaker 2: you won't even know it, even if you're actively searching.
Speaker 4: At first, the call connected to the park Service, but
Speaker 4: eventually the Blunt County Sheriff's office arrived around six pm,
Speaker 4: and by then it was getting dark. Soon rain began pouring,
Speaker 4: and the rain made it hard to conduct a proper
Speaker 4: search or do much of anything. A search dog tried
Speaker 4: tracing mike scent from the house but had no luck.
Speaker 4: And this rain can possibly be detrimental to the search.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you're concerned if you're trying to track him
Speaker 2: by scent. And then a lot of these places they're
Speaker 2: checking or trying to drive these vehicles, even side by sides,
Speaker 2: their ATVs, up and down their old log roads or
Speaker 2: nothing more than a path, and they very quickly get muddy.
Speaker 4: Me I'm also thinking of if Mike is driving an
Speaker 4: ATM A Oh my god, he's driving an ACM. Dylan,
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, my brain, he is driving an ATV,
Speaker 4: likely leaving tracks, right, but if the rain comes, that
Speaker 4: can wash away any trace of the tire tracks.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, footprints, Yeah, if you see fresh tracks through
Speaker 2: the leaves, up an old log road or something that
Speaker 2: could give you a clue as to what direction he
Speaker 2: may have went. Rain never helps in a situation like this.
Speaker 4: The next morning, the Sheriff's office launched a search for Mike.
Speaker 4: Mike had last been seen wearing a red T shirt,
Speaker 4: khaki cargo shorts, and Tiva sandals. It does not sound
Speaker 4: like he is appropriately dressed to spend several overnights.
Speaker 3: In the woods.
Speaker 2: No, And it doesn't sound like he planned on being
Speaker 2: on foot.
Speaker 4: Well no, because you know those sandals, although you know
Speaker 4: comfy and sporty, are not comfortable for walking in the
Speaker 4: woods hiking. No, they're not made for that.
Speaker 2: No once, No, that's something you would expect someone to
Speaker 2: wear something like a three quarter or you know, tall
Speaker 2: boots because when you get in the deep woods, the
Speaker 2: going is very tough. You know, you got sticks and
Speaker 2: you got maybe you know she's with some tread two
Speaker 2: or three feet elite. You know, dead leaves, decomposing leaves,
Speaker 2: it's treacherous.
Speaker 4: Walking exactly, so, the Sheriff's office used the media to
Speaker 4: appeal to the public for any information or to watch
Speaker 4: for Mike on his four wheeler. Mike had several distinctive
Speaker 4: marks on his body, including a snake bite scar on
Speaker 4: his foot, a surgical scar on the back of a knee,
Speaker 4: and he had a tattoo on his lower back. He
Speaker 4: also had a scar on his abdomen from appendix surgery
Speaker 4: and caps on his teeth. These are all great ways
Speaker 4: to identify Mike.
Speaker 2: He had a tattoo on his lower bag. Yeah, well
Speaker 2: part of his lower bag just said.
Speaker 4: Lower back done. Okay, Look, maybe Mike was a styling
Speaker 4: a a sporting a tramp stamp, maybe stylin and profiling.
Speaker 4: Don't judge Mike.
Speaker 2: I'm not judging Mike.
Speaker 4: Could have been a really badass tattoo. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't have information for you.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think we should not come tramp stamps.
Speaker 2: I think we should just call it a low back tattoo,
Speaker 2: like you know they're doing you're doing here in this story.
Speaker 2: And I don't know.
Speaker 4: I grew up in the nineties. We call them tramp stamps.
Speaker 2: That's the only thing you can call it.
Speaker 4: That's the only thing I'm gonna call it. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna listen, I'm gonna I'm gonna look at my tramp
Speaker 4: stamp in the mirror while listen to Butterfly by Crazy Tone.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, that is.
Speaker 4: That is how on the edge of being a millennial
Speaker 4: zenial gen xer that I am.
Speaker 2: That's a very nineties thing to do, I know, I don't.
Speaker 4: You know, Dylan, I don't have any tribal tattoos, I
Speaker 4: will say that, but I do have the butterflies.
Speaker 2: I do have. You have some gravel tattoos left over
Speaker 2: from the nineties. I intend to get them covered up.
Speaker 2: But you know, in this economy twenty twenty six, what
Speaker 2: can I say?
Speaker 4: You know, getting off track here and then we'll get
Speaker 4: back to our story. Speaking of tattoos, I feel like
Speaker 4: tattoo artists don't want to work, like if you really like,
Speaker 4: I don't know what it is lately in the last
Speaker 4: couple of years, when you reach out to an artist
Speaker 4: and you're like, hey, I'm interested in getting a tattoo.
Speaker 4: You know, back in the day, they would be like, oh,
Speaker 4: come by the shop, let's talk. I'll you know, let
Speaker 4: me draw you something up? What are you interested in?
Speaker 4: You know, come by whatever. Half the time they don't
Speaker 4: get back to you. They want you to like email them,
Speaker 4: pay a deposit online. They have very little communication with you.
Speaker 2: They don't want to talk to you at all.
Speaker 4: They don't yeah, they don't ask like I mean, it's
Speaker 4: just very strange, like where do you want to get
Speaker 4: this tattoo? Can I see? They don't say, come by,
Speaker 4: let me see. I'm going to have to draw this,
Speaker 4: you know, particularly for this specific body part. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: if it's is rounded or something, you know, your calf
Speaker 4: or whatever. It's just very weird to me. It's like,
Speaker 4: do you not want to make money?
Speaker 2: You know? And they all seem to think or not all,
Speaker 2: many of them, many of them. Many of them seem
Speaker 2: to think that even though they just seem like a
Speaker 2: regular tattoo artist, that they want charge you like three
Speaker 2: four or five hundred dollars an hour. And it's like
Speaker 2: you need to calm down because I'm sorry, but your
Speaker 2: talent level is not it's not up there for that.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not worth that if you will, and
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 4: Thing, you're not like a world famous tattoo artist.
Speaker 2: No, and you also don't move quick enough to give
Speaker 2: me an out a five hundred dollars hour's worth of work.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. Because those two things, if
Speaker 2: you're that good, you also need to get some stuff done,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. You can't just do a
Speaker 2: bunch of outlining. I need to see progress on this.
Speaker 2: And what you're describing happen to barber's the same thing.
Speaker 2: It's like they don't even want to talk to you.
Speaker 2: Everybody has an app and they the prices are just
Speaker 2: it's insane. I'm seeing barbers charging seventy five one hundred
Speaker 2: dollars for a haircut. Dude. It's like, calm down, you
Speaker 2: are not a celebrity bar where everybody thinks they're celebrity whatever.
Speaker 4: Like they see social media has ruined certain professions or
Speaker 4: at least the people who are in those professions because
Speaker 4: they really think they're hot shit, like because they have
Speaker 4: you know, followers on their account. I mean I've seen
Speaker 4: it with you know, hair colorists, you know, stylists, tattoo artists.
Speaker 4: What is what is that about?
Speaker 2: It's crazy to me. It's like they'd rather have ten
Speaker 2: people willing to pay one hundred dollars for a haircut
Speaker 2: than fifty people paying forty dollars. I don't I don't understand.
Speaker 2: I don't get it.
Speaker 4: But anyway, yeah, well, just fighting a tattoo artist. Since
Speaker 4: we moved, I have had difficulty funding a tattoo artist
Speaker 4: because it'll be like email me here, you email them crickets.
Speaker 2: So that the back when I when I was growing up,
Speaker 2: if you want a tattoo, you saw a tattoo shop,
Speaker 2: you going in there.
Speaker 4: It'll be like by appointment only you know, So it's
Speaker 4: like you have to have an appointment to go. They're
Speaker 4: not open all the time, but they won't email you back.
Speaker 2: It's very strange.
Speaker 4: It's very strange. I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain
Speaker 4: it to me. Because mama needs some ink. I'm itching
Speaker 4: for a tattoo dyling.
Speaker 2: Maybe one of our listeners is a badass tattoo artist.
Speaker 4: I need an ice cream cone on my face like
Speaker 4: Gucci Mane. Since Mike's family had delayed calling police for
Speaker 4: several days, combined with that bad weather, any evidence like
Speaker 4: tracks footprints was washed away. The Sheriff's office and Park
Speaker 4: Service rescue crews began a foot search of the area.
Speaker 4: Matt and Andy participated in the effort along with many
Speaker 4: of the neighbors in Happy Valley. And I say that
Speaker 4: like there was a thousand people that live there. This
Speaker 4: is a pretty rural area. It doesn't sound like there's
Speaker 4: a ton of people, right, you know, but the name
Speaker 4: or as they had, the handful of neighbors or whatever,
Speaker 4: everybody kind of pitched in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody's going to mobilize. Many of them have equipment
Speaker 2: that will help, and they also know the area very well.
Speaker 2: So I mean, you won't find a better type of
Speaker 2: community to quickly mobilize and search every nook and cranny.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's the thing. When you are able
Speaker 4: to utilize local folks. They know the area and they
Speaker 4: know the terrain. It's not like bringing someone in from
Speaker 4: out of state who is unfamiliar with the mountains or
Speaker 4: the trails or where they might lead or you know,
Speaker 4: certain directions like oh this is going to take you
Speaker 4: to the park, this is going to take you this
Speaker 4: other place. Whatever.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like the old saying in the military, one
Speaker 2: one person fighting for their own land is worth like,
Speaker 2: you know, twenty mercenaries. You know what I'm saying. I
Speaker 2: understand you understand what I'm saying. Yeah, so you take
Speaker 2: one of them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're a local, this is your neighbor, your like
Speaker 4: heart is invested in finding this man.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and you you don't need to be brought
Speaker 2: up to speed. You already know what the hell's going on.
Speaker 2: You know everything about the area and where you're going
Speaker 2: to be searching.
Speaker 4: An elderly man in his eighties even volunteered to lead
Speaker 4: search teams. This man, his name is Grady Whitehead, had
Speaker 4: known Mike his entire life. His son had actually grown
Speaker 4: up with Mike. Grady also had the advantage of being
Speaker 4: a retired park ranger who knew the land very well.
Speaker 4: So he's a skilled tracker. He's conducted many of these
Speaker 4: like missing you know, person missing hikers, tracing people, so
Speaker 4: he knows like what to do. Oh wow, though he's
Speaker 4: in his eighties, Like it sounds like he's pretty sharp
Speaker 4: and on point with I know how to lead a
Speaker 4: search crew.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, a person like that, their experience in the
Speaker 2: situation like this will be invaluable.
Speaker 4: Grady had actually been one of the last people to
Speaker 4: see Mike as he headed out on the four wheelers Saturday.
Speaker 4: They you know, kind of waved as Mike rode off
Speaker 4: into the woods. Nearly five hundred acres were searched with dogs, drones, helicopters,
Speaker 4: and people on horses. Divers were brought in to drag
Speaker 4: ponds on Mike's property. Around noon on Tuesday, August twenty
Speaker 4: sixth Mike's friend and a deputy found the ATV about
Speaker 4: a mile away from Mike's house.
Speaker 2: The new ATV Okay.
Speaker 4: They were checking an area off Happy Valley Loop. It's
Speaker 4: a road that leads to Bell Branch Road when they
Speaker 4: made the discovery. Sadly, there was no sign of Mike.
Speaker 4: The ATV was parked in the woods in an area
Speaker 4: described as thick. You know, it's thick, Dylan.
Speaker 2: So it's in a thicket, yeah, like.
Speaker 4: A lot of vegetation, and it's near a cabin that's
Speaker 4: been abandoned. So you can just imagine there's probably a
Speaker 4: lot of uh, you know, overgrowth around and I'm imagining
Speaker 4: vines and whatever creeping up the side of the cabin.
Speaker 2: So it sounds to me like just off the road,
Speaker 2: someone's drove this ATV as deep as they can into
Speaker 2: the vegetation. Right.
Speaker 4: It's dense forested, it's overgrown. This cabin, like I said,
Speaker 4: is no longer in use, so and no one's like
Speaker 4: up you know, upkeeping this property. So it's just overgrown.
Speaker 2: So this is a very strange. This is a very
Speaker 2: strange way to find the ATV, right, yes, I mean
Speaker 2: this is all It's like someone was trying to hide
Speaker 2: it is what it sounds like to me.
Speaker 4: Matt and Andy didn't know why the ATV was in
Speaker 4: that spot. It wasn't a place their dad usually went.
Speaker 4: At that moment, the brothers, who had thought their dad
Speaker 4: was hurt, felt it was much worse. The ATV was
Speaker 4: found just a few minutes walk from the park from
Speaker 4: the Great Mountains National Park. It looked like someone had
Speaker 4: jumped off or ditched it. It was hidden kind of
Speaker 4: up a steep hill. The four wheeler had been left
Speaker 4: in high gear with the ignition switch on, but the
Speaker 4: kill switch was off. The ATV didn't appear to be
Speaker 4: damaged like it was in a record an accident or anything. Okay,
Speaker 4: so again it's kind of hidden, parked very strangely on
Speaker 4: the steep incline steep hill embankment. I don't know. And
Speaker 4: then you've got the kill switch off, but it's in
Speaker 4: high gear, as if someone has just parked it there
Speaker 4: and abandoned it.
Speaker 2: And maybe didn't quite know what they were doing.
Speaker 4: Possibly that makes sense. Unfortunately, the handlebars didn't leave a
Speaker 4: clear fingerprint. The evidence probably washed away in the rainstorm.
Speaker 4: Andy and Matt knew their dad wouldn't leave the switch on.
Speaker 4: That would have drained the power. If someone is in
Speaker 4: the woods, especially on foot, they wouldn't want to come
Speaker 4: back to a dead ATV. No, Matt and Andy didn't
Speaker 4: believe that Mike had stashed the four wheeler in this location.
Speaker 4: The next day, fifty searchers combed the area where the
Speaker 4: four wheeler was found. They searched for any evidence or
Speaker 4: clues about Mike's location. Again, it's a very remote, densely
Speaker 4: vegetated wooded area. Saying the terrain was difficult was an understatement. Again,
Speaker 4: this didn't seem like an area where Mike would be.
Speaker 4: This part of the terrain led into the park, making
Speaker 4: it like just vast, thick forest. There's no trail and
Speaker 4: there's really no reason for Mike to be here right
Speaker 4: or to get off the ATV and go up into
Speaker 4: the woods at this particular area.
Speaker 2: Okay, so there's nothing there, So there's just absolutely no
Speaker 2: reason for him to leave his to drive there. For one,
Speaker 2: it sounds like he wouldn't even go there really, let
Speaker 2: alone leave his new four wheeler in this weird spot
Speaker 2: and just you know, and then leave it. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: nothing about this.
Speaker 4: So the battery's dead. Yeah, you're not going to be
Speaker 4: able to get it out.
Speaker 2: No, nothing about this makes sense.
Speaker 4: You're not going to be able to get at home.
Speaker 4: You're going to have to go get a truck. And
Speaker 4: I mean, it just sounds like no one is going
Speaker 4: to go through this on purpose.
Speaker 2: No, not with their stuff.
Speaker 4: There wasn't cell service in this area. They actually had
Speaker 4: to set up special communications among the searchers, between law
Speaker 4: enforcement and the park rangers. I'm guessing they had to
Speaker 4: use some satellite phones. That type of thing.
Speaker 2: That sounds like sounds like it would be their best
Speaker 2: option back then. One thing I will say for Elon
Speaker 2: Musk's Starlink is in a situation like this, it's perfect
Speaker 2: for communicatoration and oftentimes they donate the use of the
Speaker 2: starlink service to think two people searching in the remote
Speaker 2: areas and things like that, And I think that is
Speaker 2: a very noble thing to do.
Speaker 4: No, that's awesome. Once again, a tracking dog is brought in,
Speaker 4: but didn't lead to anything helpful. A group of park
Speaker 4: volunteers searched a nearby cave that Mike knew about, but
Speaker 4: they found no sign of him. By the end of
Speaker 4: the week, the Sheriff's office called off their search for Mike.
Speaker 4: They had no results and felt they just couldn't keep
Speaker 4: looking for him. It's expensive, they don't have the manpower.
Speaker 4: They've got other things going on right. At the beginning
Speaker 4: of two thousand and nine, another search was organized. The
Speaker 4: Sheriff's office had hoped with fallen leaves there would be
Speaker 4: a clear review in the woods. And now during this search,
Speaker 4: a clothing item was found along with some bone. It
Speaker 4: turns out the clothing item didn't match Mike what he
Speaker 4: was known to be wearing, anything that he owned. The
Speaker 4: bones were found in a fire pit. Now this isn't
Speaker 4: great news for Mike's family. They were thinking the worst
Speaker 4: outcome hearing this news. But the bones were proven to
Speaker 4: belong to a cow.
Speaker 3: Move.
Speaker 2: Okay, this poor cow came to a terrible end. Song,
Speaker 2: But that's a sigh of relief.
Speaker 4: Authority spent years trying to solve Mike's case. A fifteen
Speaker 4: thousand dollars reward was offered for any information leading to
Speaker 4: Mike's whereabouts. Several theories have circulated over the years on
Speaker 4: the Internet and within the community. The first suggests that
Speaker 4: Mike was depressed or suicidal. The two thousand and eight
Speaker 4: crash affected many builders, but Matt and Andy say that
Speaker 4: they managed better than others. Mike was generally happy and
Speaker 4: not in any kind of financial turmoil. Well, they had fared,
Speaker 4: you know, well despite this uh you know, crashing real
Speaker 4: estate market.
Speaker 2: So they weren't about to lose all their land or
Speaker 2: anything like that.
Speaker 4: No, Now, they may have not been like, you know,
Speaker 4: rolling in the money, but they they made enough to
Speaker 4: keep the lights on and food on the table.
Speaker 2: Right and uh, you know I I was going to say,
Speaker 2: at one point, at some point they had someone has
Speaker 2: to think did he do something to himself or did
Speaker 2: he want to disappear himself, Which doesn't make sense usually
Speaker 2: to friends and family.
Speaker 4: Well, to go to the lengths of borrowing this mower
Speaker 4: or you know, transporting this heavy equipment on a trailer
Speaker 4: across the parkway, uh, into the you know, this mountainous area.
Speaker 4: I'm sure that was probably a bit of a pain
Speaker 4: in the ass. If you've ever tried to haul like
Speaker 4: a you know, a trailer with equipment on it, or
Speaker 4: pull a boat behind you or a camper, you know,
Speaker 4: going through the mountains on a curvy road, I mean,
Speaker 4: I just don't feel like that's something someone's gonna do.
Speaker 4: They're not gonna take the time to do that, knowing
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna go here and end it all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But to that, I would say, as a devil's
Speaker 2: advocate that sometimes you're I think people are just on
Speaker 2: an autopilot when they are in this state like this,
Speaker 2: And and it's not always financial, right, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: not just about finances or money that make people maybe
Speaker 2: do something like this. And I don't I'm not saying
Speaker 2: he did, but I think you have to cover all
Speaker 2: the basics in a situation. So I think sometimes people
Speaker 2: are just on an autopilot on their lot in their life.
Speaker 4: And then you know, right, I mean, depression is you know,
Speaker 4: brain chemistry and right, and.
Speaker 2: They may be doing something that they always do, you know,
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. And then but uh, it doesn't
Speaker 2: say you don't friends and family don't always know when
Speaker 2: someone's in a state like that, which I think is
Speaker 2: why people find it so hard to accept that their
Speaker 2: loved one if they did something like that, to accept it.
Speaker 2: Many times, I mean, I think we've all in the
Speaker 2: true crime world heard stories where all the evidence points
Speaker 2: to them being suicide, but the family just can't accept it,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: I do know what you mean.
Speaker 2: I mean, it happens a lot, and it kind of.
Speaker 4: I don't I personally know families who have experienced this
Speaker 4: type of loss and don't want to accept it.
Speaker 2: Right, it had to be someone else. It must be
Speaker 2: murder or something like that, and so that makes it hard.
Speaker 2: So it doesn't surprise me that at some point that
Speaker 2: is one of the theories, whatever your other theories.
Speaker 4: Well, the second theory is that Mike met the wrong
Speaker 4: person or people in the woods. This makes sense because
Speaker 4: you never know who might be lurking. Sometimes, Dylan lurks
Speaker 4: in the woods.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you had we had a serial killer,
Speaker 2: Gary Hill.
Speaker 4: Well that was my next line. I was gonna say
Speaker 4: Gary Hilton for example.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know you're in in an area like
Speaker 2: this where you don't spect, it's so serene and peaceful,
Speaker 2: maybe you don't think about the possibility of violence, but
Speaker 2: as actually a very good place for someone bad like
Speaker 2: that to operate because it's desolate and there helps a
Speaker 2: long ways away to you typically catch people out by themselves.
Speaker 4: Additionally, Blant Counties had its share of marijuana growers Dylan.
Speaker 4: Over the past decade, there have been arrests related to
Speaker 4: illegal high yield growing operations. Often these illegal growers hide
Speaker 4: their plants in the park off trail. There are also
Speaker 4: illegal moonshiners operating in the area, which seems a little
Speaker 4: silly in twenty twenty six but I guess that happens.
Speaker 4: In twenty sixteen, Blunt County was designated a high intensity
Speaker 4: drug Trafficking area by the White House. Drug trafficking operations
Speaker 4: run large scale illegal marijuana grow sites within US National parks.
Speaker 4: In California, for instance, this has been a recurring problem
Speaker 4: in Sequoia and King's Canyon National Parks. These operations include
Speaker 4: thousands of plants with estimated values in millions. These growers
Speaker 4: are extremely dangerous people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know it might not have been on
Speaker 2: the own national park land, but with my own eyes,
Speaker 2: I've seen these grows that people grow when I lived
Speaker 2: in Cook County, Tennessee, around Newport, and you were always
Speaker 2: warned if you came across something like this to just
Speaker 2: turn and go the other way because they were known
Speaker 2: to be booby trapped. If the people caught you in them,
Speaker 2: you never know how they would react. And yeah, so
Speaker 2: that is is a that's a pretty strong theory in
Speaker 2: my book.
Speaker 4: Growing up, I always heard there were three things you
Speaker 4: could find in Cott County, weed liquor, and a cat house.
Speaker 2: Yeah and me, yoo, you do not mean kitty cat.
Speaker 4: And the fourth trouble right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure all that was true back then.
Speaker 4: Especially Yeah, I mean for those who live in East
Speaker 4: Tennessee or western North Carolina. Newport had quite a reputation
Speaker 4: for brothels and cat house as they called it.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were basically operating out in the open. It
Speaker 2: was a known it was a widely known secret. If
Speaker 2: you will, to everyone nin.
Speaker 4: Of five forty, you got a lot of truckers transients.
Speaker 2: You can wind from Hot Springs, North Carolina. You can
Speaker 2: come that way and wind down by the river and
Speaker 2: into Tennessee.
Speaker 4: I bet you can.
Speaker 2: And there were many in more than one spot where
Speaker 2: they were running brothels, and I was always told that
Speaker 2: the local authorities were they knew about it, and if
Speaker 2: maybe even on the take. But you know, since in
Speaker 2: the modern day, I believe they've cleaned all that up.
Speaker 2: It's not so so done out in the open at least.
Speaker 2: And uh, there's definitely been plenty of marijuana grown in
Speaker 2: those woods because of the perfect environment for it, and
Speaker 2: it's a good place to hide it. And if if
Speaker 2: the authorities find the marijuana, they can't prove it's yours.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not on your land, it's not by
Speaker 2: your house. And so that's a very common, very common
Speaker 2: move by people with these illegal growths to grow it
Speaker 2: on national park land.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've heard stories about this my whole life. Also, Dylan,
Speaker 4: I had this other idea, jen sing or saying jim So.
Speaker 4: Illegal gensing, harvesting, poaching, or sanging as they call it,
Speaker 4: is a real and surprisingly intense underground economy in the
Speaker 4: Appalachian region, especially around the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Speaker 4: Wild gen sing can sell for over eight hundred dollars
Speaker 4: a pound.
Speaker 2: Uh. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't know what the
Speaker 2: current prize, but I knew even back in the day,
Speaker 2: it would go for you know, seven eight hundred dollars
Speaker 2: a pound, which is my gosh, that's what you know,
Speaker 2: marijuana sold for back in the day, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 4: Older roots are worth more, but they can take up
Speaker 4: to ten years to mature. It's often called green gold
Speaker 4: in Appalachia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the people who dig many follow the rules most,
Speaker 2: I would say, probably, but then there's some who don't,
Speaker 2: and they go harvest from national park lands or they
Speaker 2: go steal other people who's been digging. Some people dig
Speaker 2: for years and get up, you know, pound many many
Speaker 2: pounds of this dry root and sell it off. Because
Speaker 2: just think about how many products you see gensing in.
Speaker 2: It is not as far as I know, it is
Speaker 2: not commercially cultivated. It cannot be planted in big fields
Speaker 2: and grown like a field of corn or tobacco or
Speaker 2: anything like that, marijuana or marijuana, and now you have
Speaker 2: marijuana fields. But the saying has to grow wild. It
Speaker 2: kind of just happens in the perfect spot in nature,
Speaker 2: and you find these flowering plants with the little red
Speaker 2: berries that have been growing for years, and then you know,
Speaker 2: of course the leaves and berries die. But then that's
Speaker 2: where you get this big, huge root from and it's
Speaker 2: and it's all pulled together in these large buyers and
Speaker 2: from people who personally hand dig the stuff up. So
Speaker 2: it's a very lucrative business.
Speaker 4: Well, harvesting in the park is entirely illegal. Rangers even
Speaker 4: use dyes on the Gensen plants, so like if a
Speaker 4: coacher tries to sell it, it will reveal that the
Speaker 4: plant was taken from the park. Digging, even a single
Speaker 4: route is a federal crime. So as a journalist, I
Speaker 4: tried to investigate the gensing economy in western North Carolina
Speaker 4: at one point, and let me tell you, it is
Speaker 4: a tight lipped community. I couldn't get a single licensed
Speaker 4: gensing buyer in the state to speak with me, not one. No,
Speaker 4: the people are.
Speaker 2: Like the mafia, they really are.
Speaker 4: It is insular. If you mention gen sing and you
Speaker 4: say like I'm a journalist, they hang up on you.
Speaker 4: They don't want to talk to you. They will shut
Speaker 4: a door in your face. No.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some pretty interesting documentaries out there that will
Speaker 2: kind of if any of our listeners are more interested
Speaker 2: in finding out about this. But yeah, basically you have
Speaker 2: all the people digging, and then you'll have people who
Speaker 2: pull it together in that community, and then you'll have buyer.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's no different than a drug network, and
Speaker 2: then you'll have people above them, and very quickly you
Speaker 2: can end up in rooms with hundreds of thousands, if
Speaker 2: not millions, of dollars of cash on hand for these boys.
Speaker 4: There are informal networks of poachers who sell internationally organized
Speaker 4: investigations such as Operation Root calls targeted Genseen crime rings.
Speaker 4: And I'm telling y'all, if you happen upon somebody's gensing grow,
Speaker 4: it's dangerous. People will kill you.
Speaker 2: You barely leave it alone.
Speaker 4: Bryson City man was sentenced to six months in federal
Speaker 4: prison for illegal possession of or harvesting of American gensen
Speaker 4: from the park in twenty fifteen. Billy Joe Hurley had
Speaker 4: been convicted four previous times for the same crime. Poachers
Speaker 4: are often repeatedly arrested for the offense.
Speaker 2: Billy Joe Hurley, Yep, he sounds like old Gensang poacher.
Speaker 4: Bryson City, North Carolina, which is in the heart of
Speaker 4: the Smokies and the Nanajala National Forests. I said, there
Speaker 4: are many well documented cases of deadly confrontations between the landowners,
Speaker 4: landowners and poachers. I don't know why, Like I know,
Speaker 4: the drug angle is kind of big in this case.
Speaker 4: A lot of people that that's their theory and they
Speaker 4: kind of go with that. But uh, just kind of
Speaker 4: having grown up around the edges of the park. I
Speaker 4: think you gotta look at Jen.
Speaker 2: Saying, well, yeah, if you have if you have a
Speaker 2: group of boachers doing something very illgal A lot of
Speaker 2: times these guys are rough and tumble, certainly not afraid
Speaker 2: to fight, and maybe something even worse. And this doesn't
Speaker 2: mean every person that digs sang is.
Speaker 4: Like no, but I have known, especially when I was
Speaker 4: much younger, older folks maybe associated with the some of
Speaker 4: my relatives or whatever friends of the family, who were
Speaker 4: definitely rough trade types. Yeah, they were some of the
Speaker 4: only people I know who were into singing. And I
Speaker 4: wouldn't be surprised at all if they were illegally digging
Speaker 4: or poaching, because they were definitely, as you said, rough
Speaker 4: and tumbled type of folks.
Speaker 2: A lot of people will do it just for the
Speaker 2: love of it. It's a tradition. It's really from like
Speaker 2: a hunter gatherer kind of perspective. A lot of people
Speaker 2: do it for just a few extra bucks here and there,
Speaker 2: because they know what they're looking for, they do it.
Speaker 2: They follow the rules absolutely.
Speaker 4: They are a lot of people who do it legally
Speaker 4: and it's just a kind of a mountain tradition. It's
Speaker 4: part of their mountain heritage.
Speaker 2: Right. But I've known more than one that was a
Speaker 2: scary individual. I'm talking about people who do it for
Speaker 2: a living. Right. That season is a season, a very
Speaker 2: short season when the plant's flower and you can identify
Speaker 2: them more more readily. And yeah, and so they're going
Speaker 2: to use regular folks land to access the park in
Speaker 2: a non traditional way, right, because they're gonna these guys
Speaker 2: will pack in, they'll they'll get their you know, their
Speaker 2: their sacks or whatever, and they'll go live in the
Speaker 2: woods for days on end, living off the land literally,
Speaker 2: and you know, fill up these sacks. You're not gonna
Speaker 2: drive down the parkway road or come walking the trailhead,
Speaker 2: a known trailhead carrying this illegal stuff, because that's a
Speaker 2: good way to run into a ranger or anybody you
Speaker 2: see may know what you're doing and report you. So
Speaker 2: they're going to access the park through people's lands, through
Speaker 2: the deep woods, and this would very well could have
Speaker 2: been a situation like that, considering his land, Mike's land
Speaker 2: back you know right up, he had a big chunk
Speaker 2: of land right there on the park. So actually, I
Speaker 2: think the same angle kind of carries more way or
Speaker 2: makes more sense than illegal drugs.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's kind of what makes more sense to me.
Speaker 4: And then there are other theories about uh, you know, caves,
Speaker 4: underground caves, ravines that perhaps he fell into one of
Speaker 4: these and you know, met his demise, and you know
Speaker 4: there's all these hidden cave systems allegedly under the mountains.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen people with some of them, these natural caves, caverns,
Speaker 2: I've seen. There's a real strong theory because you get
Speaker 2: into the missing four one one, yeah, and you get
Speaker 2: into all these people to go missing out of nowhere
Speaker 2: or just right around the corner from their friend, never
Speaker 2: to be seen again in the national parks all over
Speaker 2: the country, very strange stories. This actually kind of fits
Speaker 2: into that that same type of story. And some people
Speaker 2: claim that there's these natural cave systems, and if you
Speaker 2: overlay where they think the cave systems are, they just
Speaker 2: happen to be in the national park areas. So I
Speaker 2: mean that's a that's a really weird theory that there's
Speaker 2: tons of information on if anyone wants to pursue that ankle.
Speaker 2: But there's a I'll let you get all yours. Is
Speaker 2: that all the theories you've heard?
Speaker 4: That is all the theories I've heard so far.
Speaker 2: Because you're right on top of one of the very
Speaker 2: strangest conspiracy conspiracy theories that goes with the missing four
Speaker 2: to one one And some people say, instead of caves,
Speaker 2: what if the multiverse these portals, Sam Squinch, These people
Speaker 2: are accidentally accessing these portals that takes them who knows,
Speaker 2: to another dimension, to some other part. Who knows where
Speaker 2: this could go back to it? Now, this gets really
Speaker 2: weird really quick. Some people believe that Bigfoot uses these
Speaker 2: portals to access our dimension, our world, if you will,
Speaker 2: and that's why we never find that's why they're always
Speaker 2: in these very remote areas, and they're actually travelers from
Speaker 2: another dimension, they're not some dumb east What do you
Speaker 2: think about all that?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, it's a nice thought that Mike fell
Speaker 4: into some multiverse where he's in Scotland in like the
Speaker 4: seventeen hundred outland. And yes, and there's Jamie in a
Speaker 4: kilt and maybe Mike's kicking up his heels in a
Speaker 4: kilt somewhere. I don't know. I mean, I'm not going
Speaker 4: to say that that's a ridiculous theory because I'm open
Speaker 4: to anything. I'm a believer of anything's possible, supernatural. There
Speaker 4: could be parallel universe, multiverse, there could be stargates like
Speaker 4: I don't know, Oh it must certainly, I'm not going
Speaker 4: to rule it out.
Speaker 2: It's a very strange, outlandish theory, let's be honest. Well
Speaker 2: it is, but the falling into a cave or a
Speaker 2: natural the prep whatever hold if you will that no
Speaker 2: one knows about it, or even a man made hand
Speaker 2: dug well from you know, hundreds of years ago, that's
Speaker 2: possible too. I mean, that's something that could happen. You
Speaker 2: go into you know, if you're on the edge of
Speaker 2: a bunch of kudzoo and you fall in this hole
Speaker 2: that you didn't know was there, and someone comes looking
Speaker 2: for you, unless they happened to poke their hand or
Speaker 2: you know, down through that kudzoo to the opening, you
Speaker 2: would never see it. I mean, when kudzuo takes over
Speaker 2: an area, if people have seen it I'm sure many have.
Speaker 2: It's almost an impossible place to search the way it grows, So,
Speaker 2: I mean, these things could happen. So I don't know
Speaker 2: what happened to him, but it's a very strange story.
Speaker 4: It's a very strange story. Mike is remembered as a
Speaker 4: very social person who had a big laugh. Mike had
Speaker 4: looked forward to being a grandfather. His sons are now fathers,
Speaker 4: and it's really sad that Mike has grandchildren now who've
Speaker 4: never known him, especially given that he really wanted to
Speaker 4: be grandpa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that really is sad.
Speaker 4: Andy and Matt think Mike was the victim of foul play.
Speaker 4: Matt believes he uncovered something that you know, shouldn't have
Speaker 4: been happening. They say Mike didn't have enemies and was
Speaker 4: not confrontational. However, he didn't back down from a fight either, Matt.
Speaker 4: Matt said his father was definitely like a standiard ground
Speaker 4: type of guy. Matt also pointed to the ATV's location,
Speaker 4: and he feels that it's a clue that foul play
Speaker 4: was involved because Mike wouldn't even like be in that
Speaker 4: area or on that road, according to his sons, and
Speaker 4: would have never left the ATV positioned in such an odd,
Speaker 4: you know way.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the ATV is the one thing you
Speaker 2: can't forget about. It certainly seems like no one would
Speaker 2: leave their equipment like that because it's just going to
Speaker 2: go dead. It was a new ATV. I don't think
Speaker 2: he's going to run it off into the which you know,
Speaker 2: some people don't care if they have They buy stuff
Speaker 2: like that to use it, and they don't care about
Speaker 2: scratches and stuff. But it just seemed a very odd placement.
Speaker 2: It certainly sounds like someone was trying to hide the
Speaker 2: a TV, which Mike's not going to do that. So
Speaker 2: I think that one piece of evidence kind of gives
Speaker 2: weight to the fact that maybe he ran across someone
Speaker 2: doing something illegal or or something bad, or he saw
Speaker 2: someone doing something and in turn, you know, they did
Speaker 2: something to him to keep them quiet.
Speaker 4: Right, because he was not dressed properly for like a
Speaker 4: hike into the woods. He had on the cargo shorts.
Speaker 4: You know, if you're going into thick growth vegetation like that,
Speaker 4: into dense forest, right, there's vines and thorns and all
Speaker 4: kinds of little stickers and things that poke you. You're
Speaker 4: gonna want to wear pants.
Speaker 2: You're gonna want pants, thick socks, good boots.
Speaker 4: Boots, probably want to have like a machete or something
Speaker 4: like that with you, or hatchet to hack through. He
Speaker 4: just seemed really ill prepared for an excursion into the woods.
Speaker 4: I mean again, it sounds like he planned to, you know,
Speaker 4: hop on this four wheeler right over to the neighbor's property,
Speaker 4: maybe assess the growth there, see what it looked like,
Speaker 4: what he needed to do, and then come back and
Speaker 4: get the mower right right, So something had to happen
Speaker 4: obviously between his property and the neighbor's property.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and that sounds like that's definitely what happened, but
Speaker 2: we don't know what happened, right.
Speaker 4: But you know, it's interesting too that they perform these
Speaker 4: extensive searches, you know, five hundred acres of property searched
Speaker 4: and doing grid searches those kind of like hand to
Speaker 4: hand like everybody spreads out searches, and did not find
Speaker 4: a hide nor hair of mic And that's just very
Speaker 4: strange to me, it is, especially if it had been
Speaker 4: an accident or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they searched for days on end there at first,
Speaker 2: so if someone.
Speaker 4: Had just gown through different seasons.
Speaker 2: And through different seasons, and if someone, especially at first,
Speaker 2: is someone let's say, killed Mike, because you know, for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, you will have things like buzzards. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're going to have sign something that may point you
Speaker 2: to where he's actually at. And it's just very weird
Speaker 2: to never see any remains, no signs of him.
Speaker 4: Well, and how do you explain if he had an
Speaker 4: accident that the ATV was parked in a tone you.
Speaker 2: Can someone put that there? Yeah, so yeah, it's very weird.
Speaker 4: Well, hopefully one day the family will have answers and
Speaker 4: get some closure because it's such a strange case. Like
Speaker 4: I said, it's a real mountain mystery.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I don't think there's a very high chance of
Speaker 2: that because whoever, if he did come across someone, they're
Speaker 2: probably very tight lipped with it about it, and there
Speaker 2: probably weren't a lot of people involved.
Speaker 4: Will you just never know, Dylan, You don't. There could
Speaker 4: be an ex wife or girlfriend or someone out there
Speaker 4: who's been wronged that might eventually come out with the truth.
Speaker 3: People talk.
Speaker 4: I mean, it can take decades sometimes, but that's how
Speaker 4: you know. There have been a lot of cold cases
Speaker 4: solved because someone decided to come forward twenty thirty forty
Speaker 4: years later and tell what they know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, and those people, some of those people
Speaker 2: kill me because they knew about this for all this time,
Speaker 2: and then they wait until that person pisses them off
Speaker 2: or something crosses them, and then they tell because I
Speaker 2: would never keep this secret for you. Right, if you
Speaker 2: have this, this man, this regular.
Speaker 3: It's good to know.
Speaker 2: Well, not no, we're telling you shit then well, I mean,
Speaker 2: if you just killed some random person because you're doing
Speaker 2: some criminal shit, I mean, come on, that's not okay.
Speaker 4: It's not.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 4: I guess I can't tell you about my day job.
Speaker 2: You don't. You didn't do that. Now, if we're out
Speaker 2: hunting pedophiles and you know, and women beaters and stuff
Speaker 2: like that, hey, I'm all for it.
Speaker 4: You're all for some vigilante and justice will sleep like
Speaker 4: a baby. Oh, Dylan, you're silly. Thank you for sitting
Speaker 4: down with me today to discuss Mike's case.
Speaker 2: Thanks for working on your birthday.
Speaker 4: You're welcome.
Speaker 2: We appreciate it.
Speaker 4: I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: And thank you to everyone, all our listeners, all our patrons,
Speaker 2: our newest patron. Thank you, Erin, thank you Erin, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for your support. And uh yeah, I
Speaker 2: got nothing else, You've.
Speaker 4: Got nothing else.
Speaker 2: I'm all, I'm all, I'm spent well.
Speaker 4: We will be back in a few days with the midweek.
Speaker 2: I can't wait.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna hold you to it, Dylan, your
Speaker 4: feet to the fire, all right, keeping to a schedule.
Speaker 2: Bye Dylan, Bye,