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<v Speaker 1>Dark Cast Network.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the Dark Side of podcasting.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi guys, I'm Courtney and I'm Lisa, and we are

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<v Speaker 1>the hosts of the Book of the Dead, a true

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<v Speaker 1>crime podcast based out of New Jersey, where we tell

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<v Speaker 1>you about the most obscure cases that you may have

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<v Speaker 1>never heard of. So join us in the Book of

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<v Speaker 1>the Dead library for another chapter of the Book of

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<v Speaker 1>the Dead wherever you get your podcasts. Bye, guys.

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<v Speaker 3>Devil is on his way.

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<v Speaker 2>Devil is on his way.

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<v Speaker 4>Devil is on his way.

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<v Speaker 2>Mother, the Devil gonna make you pay fall to your knees.

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<v Speaker 2>Devil is on his way by fall t and Devil

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<v Speaker 2>gonna make you paid five T andne Devil is.

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<v Speaker 1>It.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, y'all, welcome back to Mountain Murderers. I'm Heather and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm dealing. I'm the birthday girl and Heather is old.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, I'm embracing it.

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<v Speaker 2>So let me guess. Are you at the age where

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna permanently be this age or are you going

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<v Speaker 2>to keep adding to it?

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<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna keep adding to it. Let's rack up some

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<v Speaker 4>numbers here. You know, I'm in my mem era and

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<v Speaker 4>I don't even have grandkids.

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<v Speaker 2>See that's my philosophy. I'm like, I don't care, I

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<v Speaker 2>can't wait. I want to be like I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 2>be eighty and so when I say something, people need

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<v Speaker 2>to listen right, Like my words have weight, the wisdom

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<v Speaker 2>of age and experience.

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<v Speaker 4>Right this year, I'm only interested in growing some a okay,

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<v Speaker 4>wearing a moo moo, comfort a house a house coat

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<v Speaker 4>or house dress. And that's about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, so you are in your mem away.

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<v Speaker 4>I yeah, I'm in my mem era. Okay, it's really sexy.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's nothing wrong with that.

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<v Speaker 4>I want to give a big shout out to Aaron.

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<v Speaker 4>She is our newest patron. Hey Erin, you are sponsoring

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<v Speaker 4>today's episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Erin, thank you so much for your sponsorship over at

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<v Speaker 2>the patreons and we hope you enjoyed the ad free

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<v Speaker 2>and extra content because there's a buttload of it.

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<v Speaker 4>We do appreciate folks who support us at patreon dot

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<v Speaker 4>com slash Mountain Murders Podcast. You help keep the lights

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<v Speaker 4>on here in the Mountain Murder studio.

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<v Speaker 2>You do, and you make Heather's birthday a very special one.

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<v Speaker 4>Very special birthday, Dylan. So far, only two of you

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<v Speaker 4>have wished me happy birthday.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh only two of me?

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<v Speaker 4>Well you and my son.

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<v Speaker 2>Only two people, that's but that's the two people.

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<v Speaker 4>You know why, because I keep it LK low key.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, you're not advertising because me Ma, me.

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<v Speaker 4>Mile, don't advertise. Okay me, MAM's gonna sit here on

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<v Speaker 4>the porch. And if you won't come holler, you can.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna judge everybody running up and down the road.

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<v Speaker 2>They must have a lot of money for gas.

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<v Speaker 4>Burning up them damn roads. Dylan, all right, are you

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<v Speaker 4>ready to get into today's case? It is quite a mystery.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh yes, The little bit you told me about this

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<v Speaker 2>story is a real head scratcher, And so let's just

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<v Speaker 2>jump right in.

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<v Speaker 4>We love a good Mountain murders mystery, So let's get started.

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<v Speaker 4>In two thousand and eight, fifty one year old Michael

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<v Speaker 4>Herron lived in Blunt County, Tennessee. When I hear Blunt County,

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<v Speaker 4>I can't help but think yesterday was four twenty, they'd

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<v Speaker 4>be smoking some blunts in Blunt County.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh yes, what. I used to live near Blunt County,

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<v Speaker 2>and every time I saw that on signs and whatnot,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm lucky.

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<v Speaker 4>Baby lighted up, which spark, just do be and get

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<v Speaker 4>laced behind the barn.

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<v Speaker 2>Put something in the air.

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<v Speaker 4>After graduating from high school, Mike worked for the National

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<v Speaker 4>Park Service trimming trails in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

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<v Speaker 4>Born and raised in the area, Mike loved the Smoky Mountains.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it really is a beautiful part of the country.

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<v Speaker 2>No matter where you get into the Appalachian Mountains along

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<v Speaker 2>along the Range, if you will, up and down the

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<v Speaker 2>East Coast, it's just a beautiful country, right, And I

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<v Speaker 2>guess some people would say the Smoky Mountains even more so.

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<v Speaker 2>It's one of the most popular, if not the most

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<v Speaker 2>popular national park.

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<v Speaker 4>It is the most visited national park at the moment. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>which has been for the last few.

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<v Speaker 2>Years, which is crazy, and certainly since the pandemic. It's gosh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just it's scouted the visitation and has skyrocketed. And

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<v Speaker 2>I would argue the quality of visitor has changed. You're

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<v Speaker 2>seeing people leave more than footprints. But that's another story

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<v Speaker 2>for another day. I reckon.

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<v Speaker 4>I recently discovered they've closed down several trails in the

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<v Speaker 4>Great Smokies due to bears. So due to bear activity activity,

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of black bears in these mountains.

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<v Speaker 2>And you made a good point on that that some

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<v Speaker 2>people don't follow the rules, and you know, don't feed

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<v Speaker 2>the wildlife is one of the number one rules whenever

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<v Speaker 2>you're visiting their house.

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<v Speaker 4>Absolutely when you are outdoors, there are plenty of signs,

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<v Speaker 4>lots of signage in the park that will tell you

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<v Speaker 4>do not feed the bears. You can't feed the bears.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's for the bears good. But what it does

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<v Speaker 2>is it desensitizes the bears to human contact. And it

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<v Speaker 2>also had they make a connection from when they see

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<v Speaker 2>a human they can maybe get some food food exactly,

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<v Speaker 2>which means instead of will you right, typically wild animals

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<v Speaker 2>will go away from you if you get near them,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you know, I mean, I think a lot

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<v Speaker 2>many of us have seen these Pigeon Forge bears, these

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<v Speaker 2>Gatlinburg bears that just kind of hang out on the

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<v Speaker 2>street corner.

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<v Speaker 3>They want some fudge, and those bears are huge, and

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<v Speaker 3>people get within like two or three feet of them,

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<v Speaker 3>and I just I just could never do it. I've

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<v Speaker 3>seen people take their little kids and set them up

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<v Speaker 3>there beside these four or five hundred pound bears and

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<v Speaker 3>take pictures.

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<v Speaker 4>Dylan Nobody said people were smart. That is a misconception

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<v Speaker 4>that humans are smart.

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<v Speaker 2>It's natural selection, and we got to quit getting in

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<v Speaker 2>the way of it.

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<v Speaker 4>I concur Mike love the Great Smoky Mountains. And you

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<v Speaker 4>know what, Dylan, I love the Great Smoky Mountains. I

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<v Speaker 4>lived most of my life just on the edge of

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<v Speaker 4>the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, as well as the

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<v Speaker 4>Blue Ridge Parkway.

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<v Speaker 2>And for the people who are not familiar with the

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<v Speaker 2>Great Smoky Mountains, why do they call him the Great

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<v Speaker 2>Smoky Mountains.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, let's get to that, Dylan. So the Great Smoky

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<v Speaker 4>Mountains are evenly split between Tennessee and North Carolina, covering

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<v Speaker 4>five hundred and twenty thousand acres. Known for their misty

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<v Speaker 4>smoky look, the Smokies are part of the larger Appalachian

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<v Speaker 4>Mountain Range. The mist over the mountains is from plant

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<v Speaker 4>emissions mixing with air moisture.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, did you know that? Yeah? I did not know that.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, now you know that.

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of thought it was maybe and I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>even being funny. I thought it was maybe smog from

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<v Speaker 2>the you know, larger areas around the mountains kind of

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<v Speaker 2>drifting over.

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<v Speaker 4>The mountains because they had smog in the eighteen hundreds.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, that doesn't make sense, does It makes.

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<v Speaker 4>Zero sense, Dylan. But I've come to expect nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>Less from you. Thank you for that, nothing more from you.

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<v Speaker 4>The Great Smokey Mountains National Park is currently the most

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<v Speaker 4>visited park in the United States. As you mentioned, Dylan,

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<v Speaker 4>it is love to death. They are among the oldest

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<v Speaker 4>mountains in the world, about two hundred to three hundred

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<v Speaker 4>million years old. The mountains feature over eight hundred hiking trails,

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<v Speaker 4>including parts of the Appalachian Trail. You'll also find historic

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<v Speaker 4>sites like old cabins, farms, churches, and mills from early

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<v Speaker 4>Appalachian settlers. So I'm a ninth generation resident of this area.

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<v Speaker 4>I've said that multiple times on the pod. You'll find

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<v Speaker 4>my family name in many communities surrounding the park, and

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<v Speaker 4>in fact, one of my ancestors is featured in a

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<v Speaker 4>display at the Oconalufty Visitor Center in Cherokee, North Carolina.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh Real.

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<v Speaker 4>So I'm very proud to call this area home. In

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<v Speaker 4>this area, the Blue Ridge Parkway and the Smoky Mountains

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<v Speaker 4>National Park intersect with private properties. Now around nine thirty

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<v Speaker 4>am on Saturday, August twenty third of two thousand, and eight,

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<v Speaker 4>Karen called his son Andy. He told Andy that he

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<v Speaker 4>was planning to leave his condo in Marville, Tennessee. And

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<v Speaker 4>I know it's Marraville because if I say Maryville, someone

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<v Speaker 4>will come at me with a pitchfork.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, if you say Maryville, people know that you're not

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<v Speaker 2>right from her, You ain't from here. It's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like Cherville. It's not Cherryville. It's terrible.

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<v Speaker 4>He also planned to stop by Andy's house to pick

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<v Speaker 4>up a lawnmower and a trailer. And by the way,

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<v Speaker 4>Andy is an adult. This is Mike's adult son.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you see these properties that are around the

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<v Speaker 2>edge of the park and that butt up against it

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<v Speaker 2>if you will, which and I've always been envious of

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<v Speaker 2>having like a property like this because I mean, these

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<v Speaker 2>lands will, as far as we know for it always

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<v Speaker 2>be a national park. It's never going to change. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you have a big, nice piece of property that

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<v Speaker 2>butt's right up against that, I mean you have your

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<v Speaker 2>own little paradise.

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<v Speaker 4>Really years ago, my friend was house sitting for this couple.

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<v Speaker 4>They had a beautiful, like what you would consider a

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<v Speaker 4>beautiful mountain home, beautiful view, like million dollar view, and

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<v Speaker 4>they owned like hundreds of acres of mountaintop property. We

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<v Speaker 4>had access to their ATV and we could go up

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<v Speaker 4>to the very top of the mountain. But their property

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<v Speaker 4>backed up against the National Park. Oh wow, And it

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<v Speaker 4>was gorgeous, like just incredibly beautiful. And to own basically

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<v Speaker 4>a mountain top, yeah, I know, and have access to

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<v Speaker 4>these woods and you're just a stone's throwaway from the park.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's pretty cool.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. Sometimes people, in my opinion, will go through

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<v Speaker 2>it to go to its stream lengths to get that

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful million dollar view you're describing, and just cut down

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<v Speaker 2>like a ton of trees, which I kind of think

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of a dick move. Like you're living in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle of this conserved or next to this conserved land,

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<v Speaker 2>and to just like hack to, you know, an acre

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<v Speaker 2>or two of trees down so you can see better.

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<v Speaker 2>This kind of seems counterintuitive to me. I would never

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think I would ever do something like that.

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<v Speaker 4>I understand. I was just thinking the drive to this

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<v Speaker 4>property was so steep you needed a four wheel drive

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<v Speaker 4>to get to the top.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh. I could only imagine.

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<v Speaker 4>I often had to park my vehicle at the bottom

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<v Speaker 4>and hit your ride up in my friend's vehicle or

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<v Speaker 4>in on the ATV because you couldn't even make it

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<v Speaker 4>to the top in a car.

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<v Speaker 2>So you guys were having like ragers.

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<v Speaker 4>My little Honda would barely go up the mountain like

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<v Speaker 4>there was no way.

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<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, you'all were having raging parties up there in

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<v Speaker 2>these people's million dollar house.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah. I guess if the two of us and my

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<v Speaker 4>son hanging out grilling and sitting on the porch is

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<v Speaker 4>a rager, it sounds. Actually, we both had kiddie pools

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<v Speaker 4>that we bought, the little plastic round pools, and we

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<v Speaker 4>would do what we called adult play dates. So in

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<v Speaker 4>the after we worked together, so in the afternoon when

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<v Speaker 4>we would get off work, we would go to this

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<v Speaker 4>house because he house said these people's house. For like

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<v Speaker 4>six months, we would fill up our pools and we

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<v Speaker 4>would make alcoholic like root beer floats and stuff and

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<v Speaker 4>just sit in our kiddie pools.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh and just look sitting stare Yeah, sitting and looking, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>in your kiddie pool.

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<v Speaker 3>It was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was great with a drink.

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<v Speaker 4>We had so much fun.

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<v Speaker 2>Sounds such a fun guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 4>He also planned to stop by Annie's house to pick

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<v Speaker 4>up a lawnmower and a trailer. The family owned a

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<v Speaker 4>one hundred acre farm property in Happy Valley, Tennessee. Mike

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<v Speaker 4>planned to take the mower over to the farm. Now

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<v Speaker 4>it is my understanding that Happy Valley is about thirty

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<v Speaker 4>minutes half hour from Maryville. Mike had previously left a

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<v Speaker 4>voicemail for twenty five year old Matt, his other son,

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<v Speaker 4>essentially like conveying the same message. Hey, I'm picking up

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<v Speaker 4>this mower going out to the farm. Cut the grass,

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<v Speaker 4>be there all weekend. Mike was known to visit the

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<v Speaker 4>farm nearly every weekend, so this trip was nothing out

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<v Speaker 4>of the ordinary. I'm very jealous. I wish I had

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<v Speaker 4>a farm where I could spend my weekends.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, that sounds incredible.

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<v Speaker 4>Now, the mower was shared among the father and the

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<v Speaker 4>two sons, sometimes used as part of their contracting work

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<v Speaker 4>to clean up around buildings and houses they constructed. Andy

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00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:43.360
<v Speaker 4>and Mike passed this mower back and forth a lot.

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<v Speaker 4>During the call with Andy, Mike said he wanted to

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<v Speaker 4>go to the farm to cut down tall grass on

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<v Speaker 4>a nearby forty acre tract. Now, this parcel was owned

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<v Speaker 4>by neighbors. They were missionaries who had been away for

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<v Speaker 4>a while. Nice guy offering to mow their yard, mow

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<v Speaker 4>their property.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and these are the type of people that

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<v Speaker 2>are basically tending the land, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>They're doing what's best for to to help with wildfires

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<v Speaker 2>things like that, or to help, you know, keep the weed,

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<v Speaker 2>the weeds from overtaking your pasture grass. You want to

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<v Speaker 2>keep it trimmed back. And you know, I think we've

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<v Speaker 2>all known people like this, or you may be people

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<v Speaker 2>like this. They have this equipment. I'm sure it's a

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<v Speaker 2>rather expensive mower. It's probably a very large mower, and

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<v Speaker 2>they just leave it on a trailer and whoever needs

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00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.399
<v Speaker 2>it goes and grabs it. And you know, does all

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<v Speaker 2>this different work with it?

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<v Speaker 4>Very nice?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it must be nice, must be nice.

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<v Speaker 4>Mike and Andy lived about a half an hour apart.

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<v Speaker 4>At that moment, Andy wasn't at home. He told his

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<v Speaker 4>dad that he was on his way back. If Mike

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<v Speaker 4>wanted to wait around and Andy could help him load

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<v Speaker 4>the mower. If Mike was in a hurry, he was

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<v Speaker 4>welcome to load it himself. Andy drove down the road

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<v Speaker 4>toward his home and his dad passed him like going

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<v Speaker 4>the opposite direction, Mike was driving on Gateway Road with

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00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:11.360
<v Speaker 4>the mower loaded on a trailer, heading in a direction

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<v Speaker 4>that showed he was taking the parkway over the mountain

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<v Speaker 4>to Happy Valley. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Andy

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<v Speaker 4>did not speak to his father again. Around eleven am,

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<v Speaker 4>a neighbor saw Mike pulling into the driveway near Bell

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<v Speaker 4>Branch Road. The man noticed Mike was hauling some kind

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00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:35.519
<v Speaker 4>of equipment on a trailer. Mike's property was at the

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<v Speaker 4>end of the road, so he had to pass other

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00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:41.840
<v Speaker 4>farms and estates to get to his one hundred acres.

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<v Speaker 4>About half an hour later, two other neighbors saw Mike

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00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:51.039
<v Speaker 4>leave on an ATV like a four wheeler. Mike waved

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<v Speaker 4>at them as he rode into the woods. The day

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00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.000
<v Speaker 4>passed without any further contact from Mike. Matt and Andy

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00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:00.320
<v Speaker 4>didn't think much about it. They didn't speak with their

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00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.960
<v Speaker 4>dad multiple times a day. Also, you know, cel phone

294
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:06.600
<v Speaker 4>reception could be I guess a little wonky out in

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00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:11.399
<v Speaker 4>this area. Oh, I'm sure the three will meet at

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00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:14.720
<v Speaker 4>work on Monday. I'm unsure if Mike planned to return

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00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:19.039
<v Speaker 4>the mower on Sunday or like Monday morning. But on Sunday,

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<v Speaker 4>around two PM, Mike's mother, Alma, contacted Andy and Matt.

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<v Speaker 4>Their grandmother was upset because she had not heard from

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00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:32.240
<v Speaker 4>her son Mike all weekend, which was unusual. Alma asked

301
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:35.720
<v Speaker 4>if they'd spoken to their father. Alma and Mike's dad

302
00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:38.679
<v Speaker 4>lived just a short walk from the Bell Branch property,

303
00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:41.840
<v Speaker 4>and Happy Valley literally takes about five minutes to get

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00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:46.679
<v Speaker 4>from their home to their son's property. They went to

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00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:49.840
<v Speaker 4>their son's house Sunday morning, knocked, but no one answered.

306
00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:52.600
<v Speaker 4>They didn't go inside, but they saw Mike's truck in

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00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:57.240
<v Speaker 4>the driveway with the trailer the mowers still loaded on

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00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:00.840
<v Speaker 4>the trailer, appearing as if he's not taken the mower

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00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:05.640
<v Speaker 4>off the trailer at all. Okay, now, first, Andy and

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00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.880
<v Speaker 4>Matt aren't really concerned about this news. It didn't seem

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00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:12.640
<v Speaker 4>strange that Mike was unavailable. He kept dozens of chickens

312
00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:15.319
<v Speaker 4>and about forty head of cattle on the farm, so

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00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:17.960
<v Speaker 4>he did spend a lot of time outdoors, often working

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00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:23.240
<v Speaker 4>on various projects. When you've got animals livestock, there's usually

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00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:24.920
<v Speaker 4>a lot of work that needs to be done.

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00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, there's always something to do, someone or some

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00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:29.880
<v Speaker 2>animal that needs checked.

318
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:31.200
<v Speaker 4>On a fence that needs mending.

319
00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:33.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he could be worried about you know, maybe some

320
00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:39.440
<v Speaker 2>pregnant heifers or you know who knows, Like you said,

321
00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:41.759
<v Speaker 2>a fence that needs to be either checked or mended.

322
00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Cause you have a working farm like this, there is

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00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:47.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot of work and it just never stops.

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00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:53.000
<v Speaker 4>Happy Valley, like I mentioned, wasn't very self unfriendly, Matt.

325
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.519
<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry, Matt. Mike did install a landline in the house,

326
00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:00.680
<v Speaker 4>but that wasn't very helpful if he was working outside,

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00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:02.720
<v Speaker 4>you know, caring for livestock, or he was out in

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00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:06.240
<v Speaker 4>the woods. The men to their grandmother not to worry

329
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:09.640
<v Speaker 4>too much. Mike was probably just out working the property.

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<v Speaker 4>He knew the area around his farm well since he

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00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:16.200
<v Speaker 4>was born and raised in Happy Valley. Again, his parents

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00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:19.000
<v Speaker 4>live just a stones throw away from him.

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00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so he probably knows all these woods like the

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00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:23.039
<v Speaker 2>back of his.

335
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.880
<v Speaker 4>Hands, exactly. It wasn't like he would get lost in

336
00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:29.480
<v Speaker 4>the woods, and they assured Almah that Mike would likely

337
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:31.880
<v Speaker 4>get in touch as soon as he made it back home.

338
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:37.079
<v Speaker 4>By Monday, Almah's maternal instincts were heightened. She could just

339
00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:40.599
<v Speaker 4>sense that something terrible had happened because she had not

340
00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:44.039
<v Speaker 4>heard from Mike all weekend, and he had not come home.

341
00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:47.680
<v Speaker 4>Early Monday morning, Andy and Matt knew they needed to

342
00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.960
<v Speaker 4>find Mike. Usually, Mike stayed at the condo in Maryville

343
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.480
<v Speaker 4>during the week and spent the weekends at the farm.

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00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.440
<v Speaker 4>Matt drove to his dad's condo, but there was no

345
00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:59.640
<v Speaker 4>sign of him. The condo didn't raise any red flags.

346
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.960
<v Speaker 4>It was tidy and in order, just how Mike usually

347
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.200
<v Speaker 4>kept it. The bed was made, nothing seemed out of place.

348
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:10.119
<v Speaker 4>Matt checked the garage. Mike's truck was gone, which made

349
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.839
<v Speaker 4>sense since he had taken it out to Happy Valley.

350
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.400
<v Speaker 4>Mike owned a sporty Mercedes convertible, but it was still

351
00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:21.160
<v Speaker 4>in the garage. Later, Matt and Andy met up and

352
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.839
<v Speaker 4>decided to drive to Happy Valley to check on Mike

353
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<v Speaker 4>at the farmhouse. Alma had gone down to the house

354
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:31.559
<v Speaker 4>a second time. When she called her grandson's she explained

355
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.200
<v Speaker 4>that Mike's four wheeler was now parked in the front yard.

356
00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:36.880
<v Speaker 4>The truck sat in the same spot it had been

357
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:39.519
<v Speaker 4>with the trailer and mower, so from the sounds of it,

358
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:42.920
<v Speaker 4>the four wheeler's placement was odd, like maybe he had

359
00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:44.960
<v Speaker 4>planned to park it there for just a few minutes

360
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:46.960
<v Speaker 4>before moving it.

361
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<v Speaker 2>It's probably somewhere he would never leave it, right because

362
00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:53.279
<v Speaker 2>you have this nice stuff like this, you use it

363
00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:56.720
<v Speaker 2>for work, not just fun. And even if it was

364
00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:58.880
<v Speaker 2>just for fun, people would typically take care of these

365
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:03.000
<v Speaker 2>types of items. They're always put away, you know, usually

366
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:08.000
<v Speaker 2>covered in some you know, ship garage, pole, barn, just

367
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:10.559
<v Speaker 2>a roof, you know, concrete pad, whatever it is to

368
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.559
<v Speaker 2>keep it out of the elements and so. And people

369
00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:18.599
<v Speaker 2>typically have habits when especially around homestead like this, you

370
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<v Speaker 2>know you'll never find You usually find their stuff in

371
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<v Speaker 2>the same.

372
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:23.759
<v Speaker 4>Place, like a carport.

373
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<v Speaker 2>You can almost count on it.

374
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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly when the men arrived, their father's truck was

375
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.359
<v Speaker 4>just as Alma described. They noticed the windows were down

376
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:38.559
<v Speaker 4>and all four doors were unlocked. Mike had left his cash, ID, keys,

377
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:42.799
<v Speaker 4>and cell phone on the truck seat. Additionally, the brothers

378
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:47.319
<v Speaker 4>made another strange observation. Mike's truck was usually parked differently.

379
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<v Speaker 4>You see, Mike allowed a school bus to park on

380
00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:54.200
<v Speaker 4>his property during weekday mornings, and to make space for

381
00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.559
<v Speaker 4>the bus, Mike had to park in a certain way

382
00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:59.799
<v Speaker 4>and he's not parked in this.

383
00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:03.039
<v Speaker 2>Specific way, so the bus can get in and out. Right.

384
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.480
<v Speaker 4>They also saw this four wheeler in the yard. Mike

385
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.599
<v Speaker 4>had bought a brand new four wheeler and this was

386
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:13.000
<v Speaker 4>the old one. That meant Mike was still using the

387
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:16.599
<v Speaker 4>new ATV. Matt worried that Mike was in the woods

388
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:19.559
<v Speaker 4>somewhere hurt or injured, and that's why he had not

389
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:20.680
<v Speaker 4>made it back home.

390
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think that might be your first thought

391
00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:27.880
<v Speaker 2>when you finally figure out that maybe something's not right

392
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.240
<v Speaker 2>or maybe something's wrong.

393
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:34.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, at this point, alarm bells have to

394
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:35.960
<v Speaker 4>be ringing, right.

395
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, you know that he knows the area very well,

396
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.039
<v Speaker 2>has grown up there and has probably been all over

397
00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:48.200
<v Speaker 2>his chunk of land. I don't know how when he

398
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.799
<v Speaker 2>came to acquired or whatever. But so at this point

399
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.519
<v Speaker 2>you have to be thinking the only reason he hasn't

400
00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:57.279
<v Speaker 2>returned because certainly the state of his truck seemed like

401
00:21:57.880 --> 00:21:59.839
<v Speaker 2>he didn't intend on being gone long. Right.

402
00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:02.759
<v Speaker 4>Well, yeah, most people do not leave the windows down

403
00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:06.880
<v Speaker 4>on their vehicle for more than a few hours, especially

404
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.720
<v Speaker 4>not overnight or for several days. Not have inclement weather.

405
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because in the mountains, I mean it can a

406
00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.559
<v Speaker 2>storm can well happens everywhere, but especially in the mountains,

407
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.480
<v Speaker 2>you can't really always see a storm coming, and next

408
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:24.160
<v Speaker 2>thing you know, you don't it's raining and you don't

409
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:28.119
<v Speaker 2>expect it, little shower, little bursts of rain, and there's

410
00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.559
<v Speaker 2>all your valuables, which I'm sure he feels very safe

411
00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:33.960
<v Speaker 2>here on his property, but still just leaving it out

412
00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.240
<v Speaker 2>in the open, all the windows down, your vehicles exposed.

413
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.119
<v Speaker 2>It seems weird, right, It does seem weird, you know.

414
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.079
<v Speaker 4>And you mentioned the little rain bursts of rain, and

415
00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:46.480
<v Speaker 4>that happens all the time in the mountains, especially where

416
00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:50.200
<v Speaker 4>we lived. The weather would not mention at all anything

417
00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:53.200
<v Speaker 4>about like a afternoon shower storm. But you can pretty

418
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:56.880
<v Speaker 4>much guarantee, especially in the warmer months, that you're gonna

419
00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:59.599
<v Speaker 4>get a spring shower, summer shower.

420
00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's almost like there's micro climates in the mountain

421
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.000
<v Speaker 2>regions that create their own weather in a weird way.

422
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:10.039
<v Speaker 4>It's kind of odd, yeah, because it can be raining

423
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:15.759
<v Speaker 4>like just down the road, but dry at your house. Yeah,

424
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.160
<v Speaker 4>how is it raining like five hundred feet from here.

425
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:22.039
<v Speaker 2>You'll have some areas that always will get the rain,

426
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:24.599
<v Speaker 2>and then other areas don't get it as often. I mean,

427
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:25.599
<v Speaker 2>you can almost count on it.

428
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:27.279
<v Speaker 4>I feel like when I lived in Maggie Valley as

429
00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:30.359
<v Speaker 4>a young person, you could expect to get rain like

430
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.160
<v Speaker 4>every day in the summer. Yeah, those out fail you

431
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:34.960
<v Speaker 4>were going to get an afternoon shower.

432
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:38.279
<v Speaker 2>Those evening thunderstorms. I worked outside for many years in

433
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:42.119
<v Speaker 2>this area and on the North Carolina side, But it's

434
00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:47.279
<v Speaker 2>all very similar. And when I was younger, lived on

435
00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:51.079
<v Speaker 2>the Tennessee side, and yeah, you can. You can watch

436
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.839
<v Speaker 2>these storms kind of just come up out of nothing,

437
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:57.599
<v Speaker 2>like skies clear, and then you'll just see brewing in

438
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.599
<v Speaker 2>the distance, like just behind the mountains, just black.

439
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:02.559
<v Speaker 4>It would just be a little flash, like you might

440
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:04.960
<v Speaker 4>get ten fifteen minutes of rain and then it stops.

441
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:06.119
<v Speaker 4>The sun comes back out.

442
00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:07.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it's beautiful.

443
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.359
<v Speaker 4>The rest of the day. I mean, it's very strange.

444
00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:13.359
<v Speaker 4>But because of that, I would assume Mike would not

445
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.119
<v Speaker 4>leave the windows down right By noon, the men had

446
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:20.200
<v Speaker 4>alerted relatives that Mike was missing. Mike and their mother

447
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.799
<v Speaker 4>had been divorced for like six or seven years, but

448
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:27.119
<v Speaker 4>they called her. She lived in Maryville. She was concerned.

449
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:29.559
<v Speaker 4>I mean, despite the fact their divorce, it seems like

450
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:33.599
<v Speaker 4>they still got along, you know, amiable. She drove to

451
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:36.599
<v Speaker 4>Happy Valley to help her sons look for their father.

452
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:41.000
<v Speaker 4>Mike was healthy but suffered from high blood pressure. His

453
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.440
<v Speaker 4>brother Jerry had the same idea as Matt that Mike

454
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:47.720
<v Speaker 4>had suffered a medical emergency or had gotten injured in

455
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:52.000
<v Speaker 4>the woods. The old four wheeler had a flat tire.

456
00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:55.240
<v Speaker 4>After Matt and Andy fixed it, they used it to

457
00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:58.880
<v Speaker 4>survey the one hundred and forty acres. They drove trucks

458
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:02.400
<v Speaker 4>where possible Mike had been caring for the neighbor's property

459
00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:06.079
<v Speaker 4>while they were in the Philippines those missionaries that area

460
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:10.000
<v Speaker 4>was searched. Matt and Andy spent hours looking for their dad.

461
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:14.720
<v Speaker 4>Relatives drove to campgrounds around and inside the Great Smoky

462
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:18.079
<v Speaker 4>Mountains Park to search for Mike. When they couldn't find him,

463
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:20.039
<v Speaker 4>they decided it was time to call the police.

464
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.960
<v Speaker 2>So they made a good go of it. They tried

465
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:27.519
<v Speaker 2>everything they knew to do, and now I'm sure at

466
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:29.000
<v Speaker 2>this point they're very worried.

467
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:30.319
<v Speaker 4>This is scary.

468
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, I mean, how could it not.

469
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:36.519
<v Speaker 4>Be, Well, just the unknown. Anytime someone goes missing, it's

470
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:39.920
<v Speaker 4>very troubling for the family, but it's particularly scary when

471
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.400
<v Speaker 4>you're in this like a landscape like this, you know,

472
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:44.720
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, rural isolated.

473
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.640
<v Speaker 2>It's the top of landscaratists. You could be within fifty

474
00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:52.759
<v Speaker 2>feet of someone, and if they're incapacitated, knocked out or

475
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.920
<v Speaker 2>something like that and they can't they don't hear you,

476
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.200
<v Speaker 2>you won't even know it, even if you're actively searching.

477
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.640
<v Speaker 4>At first, the call connected to the park Service, but

478
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:06.599
<v Speaker 4>eventually the Blunt County Sheriff's office arrived around six pm,

479
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.400
<v Speaker 4>and by then it was getting dark. Soon rain began pouring,

480
00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:12.759
<v Speaker 4>and the rain made it hard to conduct a proper

481
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.920
<v Speaker 4>search or do much of anything. A search dog tried

482
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.440
<v Speaker 4>tracing mike scent from the house but had no luck.

483
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:24.319
<v Speaker 4>And this rain can possibly be detrimental to the search.

484
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, you're concerned if you're trying to track him

485
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:30.920
<v Speaker 2>by scent. And then a lot of these places they're

486
00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:35.920
<v Speaker 2>checking or trying to drive these vehicles, even side by sides,

487
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:39.440
<v Speaker 2>their ATVs, up and down their old log roads or

488
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:42.799
<v Speaker 2>nothing more than a path, and they very quickly get muddy.

489
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:46.160
<v Speaker 4>Me I'm also thinking of if Mike is driving an

490
00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:49.960
<v Speaker 4>ATM A Oh my god, he's driving an ACM. Dylan,

491
00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:52.559
<v Speaker 4>Oh my gosh, my brain, he is driving an ATV,

492
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:57.880
<v Speaker 4>likely leaving tracks, right, but if the rain comes, that

493
00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:02.559
<v Speaker 4>can wash away any trace of the tire tracks.

494
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, footprints, Yeah, if you see fresh tracks through

495
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:07.720
<v Speaker 2>the leaves, up an old log road or something that

496
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:09.519
<v Speaker 2>could give you a clue as to what direction he

497
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:13.559
<v Speaker 2>may have went. Rain never helps in a situation like this.

498
00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:16.599
<v Speaker 4>The next morning, the Sheriff's office launched a search for Mike.

499
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:19.559
<v Speaker 4>Mike had last been seen wearing a red T shirt,

500
00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:23.559
<v Speaker 4>khaki cargo shorts, and Tiva sandals. It does not sound

501
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:29.640
<v Speaker 4>like he is appropriately dressed to spend several overnights.

502
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:29.799
<v Speaker 3>In the woods.

503
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.680
<v Speaker 2>No, And it doesn't sound like he planned on being

504
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:33.279
<v Speaker 2>on foot.

505
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:38.160
<v Speaker 4>Well no, because you know those sandals, although you know

506
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:42.960
<v Speaker 4>comfy and sporty, are not comfortable for walking in the

507
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:46.440
<v Speaker 4>woods hiking. No, they're not made for that.

508
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:49.400
<v Speaker 2>No once, No, that's something you would expect someone to

509
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.680
<v Speaker 2>wear something like a three quarter or you know, tall

510
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.519
<v Speaker 2>boots because when you get in the deep woods, the

511
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.440
<v Speaker 2>going is very tough. You know, you got sticks and

512
00:27:59.720 --> 00:28:01.960
<v Speaker 2>you got maybe you know she's with some tread two

513
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:05.000
<v Speaker 2>or three feet elite. You know, dead leaves, decomposing leaves,

514
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:06.559
<v Speaker 2>it's treacherous.

515
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.680
<v Speaker 4>Walking exactly, so, the Sheriff's office used the media to

516
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:13.240
<v Speaker 4>appeal to the public for any information or to watch

517
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:16.640
<v Speaker 4>for Mike on his four wheeler. Mike had several distinctive

518
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:19.720
<v Speaker 4>marks on his body, including a snake bite scar on

519
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:23.240
<v Speaker 4>his foot, a surgical scar on the back of a knee,

520
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.240
<v Speaker 4>and he had a tattoo on his lower back. He

521
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:29.920
<v Speaker 4>also had a scar on his abdomen from appendix surgery

522
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.440
<v Speaker 4>and caps on his teeth. These are all great ways

523
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:34.319
<v Speaker 4>to identify Mike.

524
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:38.519
<v Speaker 2>He had a tattoo on his lower bag. Yeah, well

525
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:41.240
<v Speaker 2>part of his lower bag just said.

526
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:46.039
<v Speaker 4>Lower back done. Okay, Look, maybe Mike was a styling

527
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:49.720
<v Speaker 4>a a sporting a tramp stamp, maybe stylin and profiling.

528
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:52.559
<v Speaker 4>Don't judge Mike.

529
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:53.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm not judging Mike.

530
00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:56.759
<v Speaker 4>Could have been a really badass tattoo. I don't know.

531
00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:58.000
<v Speaker 4>I don't have information for you.

532
00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I think we should not come tramp stamps.

533
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:04.160
<v Speaker 2>I think we should just call it a low back tattoo,

534
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:07.319
<v Speaker 2>like you know they're doing you're doing here in this story.

535
00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:09.119
<v Speaker 2>And I don't know.

536
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:11.359
<v Speaker 4>I grew up in the nineties. We call them tramp stamps.

537
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:12.920
<v Speaker 2>That's the only thing you can call it.

538
00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:15.480
<v Speaker 4>That's the only thing I'm gonna call it. Yeah, I'm

539
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:17.640
<v Speaker 4>gonna listen, I'm gonna I'm gonna look at my tramp

540
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:20.880
<v Speaker 4>stamp in the mirror while listen to Butterfly by Crazy Tone.

541
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, okay, that is.

542
00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:26.240
<v Speaker 4>That is how on the edge of being a millennial

543
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:28.960
<v Speaker 4>zenial gen xer that I am.

544
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:32.559
<v Speaker 2>That's a very nineties thing to do, I know, I don't.

545
00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:35.359
<v Speaker 4>You know, Dylan, I don't have any tribal tattoos, I

546
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:39.240
<v Speaker 4>will say that, but I do have the butterflies.

547
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:44.079
<v Speaker 2>I do have. You have some gravel tattoos left over

548
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:47.559
<v Speaker 2>from the nineties. I intend to get them covered up.

549
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:50.519
<v Speaker 2>But you know, in this economy twenty twenty six, what

550
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:51.119
<v Speaker 2>can I say?

551
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:54.759
<v Speaker 4>You know, getting off track here and then we'll get

552
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:58.519
<v Speaker 4>back to our story. Speaking of tattoos, I feel like

553
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:03.359
<v Speaker 4>tattoo artists don't want to work, like if you really like,

554
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.839
<v Speaker 4>I don't know what it is lately in the last

555
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:09.240
<v Speaker 4>couple of years, when you reach out to an artist

556
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.279
<v Speaker 4>and you're like, hey, I'm interested in getting a tattoo.

557
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.759
<v Speaker 4>You know, back in the day, they would be like, oh,

558
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.079
<v Speaker 4>come by the shop, let's talk. I'll you know, let

559
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:20.279
<v Speaker 4>me draw you something up? What are you interested in?

560
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:24.119
<v Speaker 4>You know, come by whatever. Half the time they don't

561
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.920
<v Speaker 4>get back to you. They want you to like email them,

562
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:31.839
<v Speaker 4>pay a deposit online. They have very little communication with you.

563
00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:33.119
<v Speaker 2>They don't want to talk to you at all.

564
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:35.680
<v Speaker 4>They don't yeah, they don't ask like I mean, it's

565
00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:38.240
<v Speaker 4>just very strange, like where do you want to get

566
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:41.880
<v Speaker 4>this tattoo? Can I see? They don't say, come by,

567
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:44.000
<v Speaker 4>let me see. I'm going to have to draw this,

568
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:48.240
<v Speaker 4>you know, particularly for this specific body part. Yeah, you know,

569
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:52.480
<v Speaker 4>if it's is rounded or something, you know, your calf

570
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:55.079
<v Speaker 4>or whatever. It's just very weird to me. It's like,

571
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:56.440
<v Speaker 4>do you not want to make money?

572
00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:00.400
<v Speaker 2>You know? And they all seem to think or not all,

573
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:02.759
<v Speaker 2>many of them, many of them. Many of them seem

574
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:07.480
<v Speaker 2>to think that even though they just seem like a

575
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:10.759
<v Speaker 2>regular tattoo artist, that they want charge you like three

576
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.359
<v Speaker 2>four or five hundred dollars an hour. And it's like

577
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:15.559
<v Speaker 2>you need to calm down because I'm sorry, but your

578
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:19.839
<v Speaker 2>talent level is not it's not up there for that.

579
00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:22.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's not worth that if you will, and

580
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:23.279
<v Speaker 2>the same.

581
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.119
<v Speaker 4>Thing, you're not like a world famous tattoo artist.

582
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:29.640
<v Speaker 2>No, and you also don't move quick enough to give

583
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:32.880
<v Speaker 2>me an out a five hundred dollars hour's worth of work.

584
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:36.319
<v Speaker 2>You know what I'm saying. Because those two things, if

585
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:39.640
<v Speaker 2>you're that good, you also need to get some stuff done,

586
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:42.400
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean. You can't just do a

587
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:45.680
<v Speaker 2>bunch of outlining. I need to see progress on this.

588
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.759
<v Speaker 2>And what you're describing happen to barber's the same thing.

589
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:52.359
<v Speaker 2>It's like they don't even want to talk to you.

590
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Everybody has an app and they the prices are just

591
00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:01.519
<v Speaker 2>it's insane. I'm seeing barbers charging seventy five one hundred

592
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:04.759
<v Speaker 2>dollars for a haircut. Dude. It's like, calm down, you

593
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:07.920
<v Speaker 2>are not a celebrity bar where everybody thinks they're celebrity whatever.

594
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:12.400
<v Speaker 4>Like they see social media has ruined certain professions or

595
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:14.960
<v Speaker 4>at least the people who are in those professions because

596
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:18.400
<v Speaker 4>they really think they're hot shit, like because they have

597
00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, followers on their account. I mean I've seen

598
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:28.400
<v Speaker 4>it with you know, hair colorists, you know, stylists, tattoo artists.

599
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:30.720
<v Speaker 4>What is what is that about?

600
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:33.119
<v Speaker 2>It's crazy to me. It's like they'd rather have ten

601
00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:35.119
<v Speaker 2>people willing to pay one hundred dollars for a haircut

602
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:39.279
<v Speaker 2>than fifty people paying forty dollars. I don't I don't understand.

603
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:40.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't get it.

604
00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:44.599
<v Speaker 4>But anyway, yeah, well, just fighting a tattoo artist. Since

605
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:47.960
<v Speaker 4>we moved, I have had difficulty funding a tattoo artist

606
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:52.480
<v Speaker 4>because it'll be like email me here, you email them crickets.

607
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:56.920
<v Speaker 2>So that the back when I when I was growing up,

608
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.000
<v Speaker 2>if you want a tattoo, you saw a tattoo shop,

609
00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:00.799
<v Speaker 2>you going in there.

610
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:03.200
<v Speaker 4>It'll be like by appointment only you know, So it's

611
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:05.480
<v Speaker 4>like you have to have an appointment to go. They're

612
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:08.279
<v Speaker 4>not open all the time, but they won't email you back.

613
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:09.759
<v Speaker 2>It's very strange.

614
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:13.839
<v Speaker 4>It's very strange. I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain

615
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:18.039
<v Speaker 4>it to me. Because mama needs some ink. I'm itching

616
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:19.839
<v Speaker 4>for a tattoo dyling.

617
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:23.319
<v Speaker 2>Maybe one of our listeners is a badass tattoo artist.

618
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:25.279
<v Speaker 4>I need an ice cream cone on my face like

619
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:30.039
<v Speaker 4>Gucci Mane. Since Mike's family had delayed calling police for

620
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:33.680
<v Speaker 4>several days, combined with that bad weather, any evidence like

621
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:40.599
<v Speaker 4>tracks footprints was washed away. The Sheriff's office and Park

622
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:44.000
<v Speaker 4>Service rescue crews began a foot search of the area.

623
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:48.119
<v Speaker 4>Matt and Andy participated in the effort along with many

624
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.440
<v Speaker 4>of the neighbors in Happy Valley. And I say that

625
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:52.920
<v Speaker 4>like there was a thousand people that live there. This

626
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.960
<v Speaker 4>is a pretty rural area. It doesn't sound like there's

627
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.920
<v Speaker 4>a ton of people, right, you know, but the name

628
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:02.359
<v Speaker 4>or as they had, the handful of neighbors or whatever,

629
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:04.039
<v Speaker 4>everybody kind of pitched in.

630
00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, everybody's going to mobilize. Many of them have equipment

631
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:11.599
<v Speaker 2>that will help, and they also know the area very well.

632
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.679
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, you won't find a better type of

633
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:21.039
<v Speaker 2>community to quickly mobilize and search every nook and cranny.

634
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:23.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean that's the thing. When you are able

635
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:27.039
<v Speaker 4>to utilize local folks. They know the area and they

636
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:29.360
<v Speaker 4>know the terrain. It's not like bringing someone in from

637
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:32.639
<v Speaker 4>out of state who is unfamiliar with the mountains or

638
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:36.519
<v Speaker 4>the trails or where they might lead or you know,

639
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:38.760
<v Speaker 4>certain directions like oh this is going to take you

640
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:40.920
<v Speaker 4>to the park, this is going to take you this

641
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:42.519
<v Speaker 4>other place. Whatever.

642
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's like the old saying in the military, one

643
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.719
<v Speaker 2>one person fighting for their own land is worth like,

644
00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:55.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, twenty mercenaries. You know what I'm saying. I

645
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:58.400
<v Speaker 2>understand you understand what I'm saying. Yeah, so you take

646
00:34:58.480 --> 00:34:58.840
<v Speaker 2>one of them.

647
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.719
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you're a local, this is your neighbor, your like

648
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:03.800
<v Speaker 4>heart is invested in finding this man.

649
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, and you you don't need to be brought

650
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:08.559
<v Speaker 2>up to speed. You already know what the hell's going on.

651
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:11.320
<v Speaker 2>You know everything about the area and where you're going

652
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:11.880
<v Speaker 2>to be searching.

653
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:16.519
<v Speaker 4>An elderly man in his eighties even volunteered to lead

654
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.400
<v Speaker 4>search teams. This man, his name is Grady Whitehead, had

655
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.760
<v Speaker 4>known Mike his entire life. His son had actually grown

656
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:28.119
<v Speaker 4>up with Mike. Grady also had the advantage of being

657
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.079
<v Speaker 4>a retired park ranger who knew the land very well.

658
00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:36.239
<v Speaker 4>So he's a skilled tracker. He's conducted many of these

659
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:41.159
<v Speaker 4>like missing you know, person missing hikers, tracing people, so

660
00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:44.320
<v Speaker 4>he knows like what to do. Oh wow, though he's

661
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:46.960
<v Speaker 4>in his eighties, Like it sounds like he's pretty sharp

662
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:49.840
<v Speaker 4>and on point with I know how to lead a

663
00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:50.400
<v Speaker 4>search crew.

664
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, a person like that, their experience in the

665
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:54.719
<v Speaker 2>situation like this will be invaluable.

666
00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:57.239
<v Speaker 4>Grady had actually been one of the last people to

667
00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:00.559
<v Speaker 4>see Mike as he headed out on the four wheelers Saturday.

668
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:05.079
<v Speaker 4>They you know, kind of waved as Mike rode off

669
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:12.760
<v Speaker 4>into the woods. Nearly five hundred acres were searched with dogs, drones, helicopters,

670
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.400
<v Speaker 4>and people on horses. Divers were brought in to drag

671
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:21.239
<v Speaker 4>ponds on Mike's property. Around noon on Tuesday, August twenty

672
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:26.320
<v Speaker 4>sixth Mike's friend and a deputy found the ATV about

673
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:28.199
<v Speaker 4>a mile away from Mike's house.

674
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:31.119
<v Speaker 2>The new ATV Okay.

675
00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:34.880
<v Speaker 4>They were checking an area off Happy Valley Loop. It's

676
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.960
<v Speaker 4>a road that leads to Bell Branch Road when they

677
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:41.559
<v Speaker 4>made the discovery. Sadly, there was no sign of Mike.

678
00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:45.320
<v Speaker 4>The ATV was parked in the woods in an area

679
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:50.400
<v Speaker 4>described as thick. You know, it's thick, Dylan.

680
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:52.400
<v Speaker 2>So it's in a thicket, yeah, like.

681
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.000
<v Speaker 4>A lot of vegetation, and it's near a cabin that's

682
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:58.960
<v Speaker 4>been abandoned. So you can just imagine there's probably a

683
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:03.599
<v Speaker 4>lot of uh, you know, overgrowth around and I'm imagining

684
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:06.239
<v Speaker 4>vines and whatever creeping up the side of the cabin.

685
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:11.119
<v Speaker 2>So it sounds to me like just off the road,

686
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:16.519
<v Speaker 2>someone's drove this ATV as deep as they can into

687
00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the vegetation. Right.

688
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:23.559
<v Speaker 4>It's dense forested, it's overgrown. This cabin, like I said,

689
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:26.559
<v Speaker 4>is no longer in use, so and no one's like

690
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:29.719
<v Speaker 4>up you know, upkeeping this property. So it's just overgrown.

691
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.079
<v Speaker 2>So this is a very strange. This is a very

692
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:37.360
<v Speaker 2>strange way to find the ATV, right, yes, I mean

693
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:39.360
<v Speaker 2>this is all It's like someone was trying to hide

694
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:40.679
<v Speaker 2>it is what it sounds like to me.

695
00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:43.599
<v Speaker 4>Matt and Andy didn't know why the ATV was in

696
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:46.960
<v Speaker 4>that spot. It wasn't a place their dad usually went.

697
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:49.960
<v Speaker 4>At that moment, the brothers, who had thought their dad

698
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:53.880
<v Speaker 4>was hurt, felt it was much worse. The ATV was

699
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:59.480
<v Speaker 4>found just a few minutes walk from the park from

700
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.960
<v Speaker 4>the Great Mountains National Park. It looked like someone had

701
00:38:03.079 --> 00:38:07.400
<v Speaker 4>jumped off or ditched it. It was hidden kind of

702
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.519
<v Speaker 4>up a steep hill. The four wheeler had been left

703
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:13.880
<v Speaker 4>in high gear with the ignition switch on, but the

704
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.320
<v Speaker 4>kill switch was off. The ATV didn't appear to be

705
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:22.519
<v Speaker 4>damaged like it was in a record an accident or anything. Okay,

706
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:26.400
<v Speaker 4>so again it's kind of hidden, parked very strangely on

707
00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:32.280
<v Speaker 4>the steep incline steep hill embankment. I don't know. And

708
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.760
<v Speaker 4>then you've got the kill switch off, but it's in

709
00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:38.079
<v Speaker 4>high gear, as if someone has just parked it there

710
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:39.400
<v Speaker 4>and abandoned it.

711
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:42.480
<v Speaker 2>And maybe didn't quite know what they were doing.

712
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:49.280
<v Speaker 4>Possibly that makes sense. Unfortunately, the handlebars didn't leave a

713
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:53.400
<v Speaker 4>clear fingerprint. The evidence probably washed away in the rainstorm.

714
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:57.000
<v Speaker 4>Andy and Matt knew their dad wouldn't leave the switch on.

715
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:00.800
<v Speaker 4>That would have drained the power. If someone is in

716
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:03.920
<v Speaker 4>the woods, especially on foot, they wouldn't want to come

717
00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:08.679
<v Speaker 4>back to a dead ATV. No, Matt and Andy didn't

718
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:12.480
<v Speaker 4>believe that Mike had stashed the four wheeler in this location.

719
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:16.440
<v Speaker 4>The next day, fifty searchers combed the area where the

720
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:20.000
<v Speaker 4>four wheeler was found. They searched for any evidence or

721
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:25.239
<v Speaker 4>clues about Mike's location. Again, it's a very remote, densely

722
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:31.760
<v Speaker 4>vegetated wooded area. Saying the terrain was difficult was an understatement. Again,

723
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:34.119
<v Speaker 4>this didn't seem like an area where Mike would be.

724
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:37.800
<v Speaker 4>This part of the terrain led into the park, making

725
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:42.760
<v Speaker 4>it like just vast, thick forest. There's no trail and

726
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:47.280
<v Speaker 4>there's really no reason for Mike to be here right

727
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.840
<v Speaker 4>or to get off the ATV and go up into

728
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:54.039
<v Speaker 4>the woods at this particular area.

729
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:58.239
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so there's nothing there, So there's just absolutely no

730
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:02.320
<v Speaker 2>reason for him to leave his to drive there. For one,

731
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:06.119
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like he wouldn't even go there really, let

732
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:10.800
<v Speaker 2>alone leave his new four wheeler in this weird spot

733
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:15.159
<v Speaker 2>and just you know, and then leave it. Yeah, it's

734
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:16.079
<v Speaker 2>nothing about this.

735
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.360
<v Speaker 4>So the battery's dead. Yeah, you're not going to be

736
00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:19.239
<v Speaker 4>able to get it out.

737
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:21.079
<v Speaker 2>No, nothing about this makes sense.

738
00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:22.400
<v Speaker 4>You're not going to be able to get at home.

739
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:23.800
<v Speaker 4>You're going to have to go get a truck. And

740
00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:27.039
<v Speaker 4>I mean, it just sounds like no one is going

741
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:29.119
<v Speaker 4>to go through this on purpose.

742
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.199
<v Speaker 2>No, not with their stuff.

743
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:36.360
<v Speaker 4>There wasn't cell service in this area. They actually had

744
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:40.920
<v Speaker 4>to set up special communications among the searchers, between law

745
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:43.519
<v Speaker 4>enforcement and the park rangers. I'm guessing they had to

746
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:46.360
<v Speaker 4>use some satellite phones. That type of thing.

747
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.079
<v Speaker 2>That sounds like sounds like it would be their best

748
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:54.000
<v Speaker 2>option back then. One thing I will say for Elon

749
00:40:54.159 --> 00:40:59.360
<v Speaker 2>Musk's Starlink is in a situation like this, it's perfect

750
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:06.039
<v Speaker 2>for communicatoration and oftentimes they donate the use of the

751
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:11.440
<v Speaker 2>starlink service to think two people searching in the remote

752
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:13.000
<v Speaker 2>areas and things like that, And I think that is

753
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:15.199
<v Speaker 2>a very noble thing to do.

754
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:20.199
<v Speaker 4>No, that's awesome. Once again, a tracking dog is brought in,

755
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:23.519
<v Speaker 4>but didn't lead to anything helpful. A group of park

756
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:27.239
<v Speaker 4>volunteers searched a nearby cave that Mike knew about, but

757
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:30.079
<v Speaker 4>they found no sign of him. By the end of

758
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:33.239
<v Speaker 4>the week, the Sheriff's office called off their search for Mike.

759
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:36.519
<v Speaker 4>They had no results and felt they just couldn't keep

760
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:40.800
<v Speaker 4>looking for him. It's expensive, they don't have the manpower.

761
00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:45.280
<v Speaker 4>They've got other things going on right. At the beginning

762
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:49.880
<v Speaker 4>of two thousand and nine, another search was organized. The

763
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:53.320
<v Speaker 4>Sheriff's office had hoped with fallen leaves there would be

764
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:56.400
<v Speaker 4>a clear review in the woods. And now during this search,

765
00:41:56.480 --> 00:42:01.760
<v Speaker 4>a clothing item was found along with some bone. It

766
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:05.960
<v Speaker 4>turns out the clothing item didn't match Mike what he

767
00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:09.880
<v Speaker 4>was known to be wearing, anything that he owned. The

768
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:12.320
<v Speaker 4>bones were found in a fire pit. Now this isn't

769
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.519
<v Speaker 4>great news for Mike's family. They were thinking the worst

770
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:21.119
<v Speaker 4>outcome hearing this news. But the bones were proven to

771
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:22.360
<v Speaker 4>belong to a cow.

772
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:24.639
<v Speaker 3>Move.

773
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, this poor cow came to a terrible end. Song,

774
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:29.679
<v Speaker 2>But that's a sigh of relief.

775
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:34.679
<v Speaker 4>Authority spent years trying to solve Mike's case. A fifteen

776
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:38.199
<v Speaker 4>thousand dollars reward was offered for any information leading to

777
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:42.760
<v Speaker 4>Mike's whereabouts. Several theories have circulated over the years on

778
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:46.360
<v Speaker 4>the Internet and within the community. The first suggests that

779
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:49.800
<v Speaker 4>Mike was depressed or suicidal. The two thousand and eight

780
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:53.760
<v Speaker 4>crash affected many builders, but Matt and Andy say that

781
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:58.039
<v Speaker 4>they managed better than others. Mike was generally happy and

782
00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:01.440
<v Speaker 4>not in any kind of financial turmoil. Well, they had fared,

783
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:06.840
<v Speaker 4>you know, well despite this uh you know, crashing real

784
00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:07.519
<v Speaker 4>estate market.

785
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:10.480
<v Speaker 2>So they weren't about to lose all their land or

786
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:11.400
<v Speaker 2>anything like that.

787
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:14.400
<v Speaker 4>No, Now, they may have not been like, you know,

788
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:17.280
<v Speaker 4>rolling in the money, but they they made enough to

789
00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:20.119
<v Speaker 4>keep the lights on and food on the table.

790
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Right and uh, you know I I was going to say,

791
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:26.760
<v Speaker 2>at one point, at some point they had someone has

792
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:32.119
<v Speaker 2>to think did he do something to himself or did

793
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:36.559
<v Speaker 2>he want to disappear himself, Which doesn't make sense usually

794
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:38.000
<v Speaker 2>to friends and family.

795
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:41.400
<v Speaker 4>Well, to go to the lengths of borrowing this mower

796
00:43:41.960 --> 00:43:45.559
<v Speaker 4>or you know, transporting this heavy equipment on a trailer

797
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:50.760
<v Speaker 4>across the parkway, uh, into the you know, this mountainous area.

798
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:53.519
<v Speaker 4>I'm sure that was probably a bit of a pain

799
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:56.079
<v Speaker 4>in the ass. If you've ever tried to haul like

800
00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:58.639
<v Speaker 4>a you know, a trailer with equipment on it, or

801
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:01.960
<v Speaker 4>pull a boat behind you or a camper, you know,

802
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:04.760
<v Speaker 4>going through the mountains on a curvy road, I mean,

803
00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:08.039
<v Speaker 4>I just don't feel like that's something someone's gonna do.

804
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:10.320
<v Speaker 4>They're not gonna take the time to do that, knowing

805
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:13.199
<v Speaker 4>I'm just gonna go here and end it all.

806
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But to that, I would say, as a devil's

807
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:21.400
<v Speaker 2>advocate that sometimes you're I think people are just on

808
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:24.480
<v Speaker 2>an autopilot when they are in this state like this,

809
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:28.559
<v Speaker 2>And and it's not always financial, right, I mean, it's

810
00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:31.840
<v Speaker 2>not just about finances or money that make people maybe

811
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.239
<v Speaker 2>do something like this. And I don't I'm not saying

812
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:38.000
<v Speaker 2>he did, but I think you have to cover all

813
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:41.159
<v Speaker 2>the basics in a situation. So I think sometimes people

814
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:43.599
<v Speaker 2>are just on an autopilot on their lot in their life.

815
00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:46.880
<v Speaker 4>And then you know, right, I mean, depression is you know,

816
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:49.760
<v Speaker 4>brain chemistry and right, and.

817
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:52.320
<v Speaker 2>They may be doing something that they always do, you know,

818
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:57.360
<v Speaker 2>that kind of thing. And then but uh, it doesn't

819
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.519
<v Speaker 2>say you don't friends and family don't always know when

820
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:02.840
<v Speaker 2>someone's in a state like that, which I think is

821
00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:06.280
<v Speaker 2>why people find it so hard to accept that their

822
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:09.800
<v Speaker 2>loved one if they did something like that, to accept it.

823
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:12.719
<v Speaker 2>Many times, I mean, I think we've all in the

824
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:19.199
<v Speaker 2>true crime world heard stories where all the evidence points

825
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:23.000
<v Speaker 2>to them being suicide, but the family just can't accept it,

826
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:24.079
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean.

827
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:26.239
<v Speaker 4>I do know what you mean.

828
00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:28.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it happens a lot, and it kind of.

829
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:34.239
<v Speaker 4>I don't I personally know families who have experienced this

830
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:36.679
<v Speaker 4>type of loss and don't want to accept it.

831
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Right, it had to be someone else. It must be

832
00:45:39.400 --> 00:45:42.760
<v Speaker 2>murder or something like that, and so that makes it hard.

833
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.519
<v Speaker 2>So it doesn't surprise me that at some point that

834
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:47.760
<v Speaker 2>is one of the theories, whatever your other theories.

835
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.239
<v Speaker 4>Well, the second theory is that Mike met the wrong

836
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:53.679
<v Speaker 4>person or people in the woods. This makes sense because

837
00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:59.400
<v Speaker 4>you never know who might be lurking. Sometimes, Dylan lurks

838
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:00.079
<v Speaker 4>in the woods.

839
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:04.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, you had we had a serial killer,

840
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Gary Hill.

841
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:07.880
<v Speaker 4>Well that was my next line. I was gonna say

842
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:09.599
<v Speaker 4>Gary Hilton for example.

843
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:12.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know you're in in an area like

844
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:16.039
<v Speaker 2>this where you don't spect, it's so serene and peaceful,

845
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:20.199
<v Speaker 2>maybe you don't think about the possibility of violence, but

846
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:25.039
<v Speaker 2>as actually a very good place for someone bad like

847
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:28.840
<v Speaker 2>that to operate because it's desolate and there helps a

848
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:32.440
<v Speaker 2>long ways away to you typically catch people out by themselves.

849
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:37.480
<v Speaker 4>Additionally, Blant Counties had its share of marijuana growers Dylan.

850
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:40.760
<v Speaker 4>Over the past decade, there have been arrests related to

851
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:47.039
<v Speaker 4>illegal high yield growing operations. Often these illegal growers hide

852
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:50.719
<v Speaker 4>their plants in the park off trail. There are also

853
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:55.639
<v Speaker 4>illegal moonshiners operating in the area, which seems a little

854
00:46:55.639 --> 00:47:00.000
<v Speaker 4>silly in twenty twenty six but I guess that happens.

855
00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:03.760
<v Speaker 4>In twenty sixteen, Blunt County was designated a high intensity

856
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:08.400
<v Speaker 4>drug Trafficking area by the White House. Drug trafficking operations

857
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:14.280
<v Speaker 4>run large scale illegal marijuana grow sites within US National parks.

858
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:17.920
<v Speaker 4>In California, for instance, this has been a recurring problem

859
00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:22.800
<v Speaker 4>in Sequoia and King's Canyon National Parks. These operations include

860
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:27.159
<v Speaker 4>thousands of plants with estimated values in millions. These growers

861
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:29.440
<v Speaker 4>are extremely dangerous people.

862
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:33.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I know it might not have been on

863
00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:36.039
<v Speaker 2>the own national park land, but with my own eyes,

864
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:40.679
<v Speaker 2>I've seen these grows that people grow when I lived

865
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:47.679
<v Speaker 2>in Cook County, Tennessee, around Newport, and you were always

866
00:47:47.719 --> 00:47:49.920
<v Speaker 2>warned if you came across something like this to just

867
00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:52.559
<v Speaker 2>turn and go the other way because they were known

868
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:55.840
<v Speaker 2>to be booby trapped. If the people caught you in them,

869
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:59.440
<v Speaker 2>you never know how they would react. And yeah, so

870
00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:02.719
<v Speaker 2>that is is a that's a pretty strong theory in

871
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:03.280
<v Speaker 2>my book.

872
00:48:03.559 --> 00:48:08.199
<v Speaker 4>Growing up, I always heard there were three things you

873
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:12.480
<v Speaker 4>could find in Cott County, weed liquor, and a cat house.

874
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:16.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah and me, yoo, you do not mean kitty cat.

875
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:19.920
<v Speaker 4>And the fourth trouble right, Yeah.

876
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:21.679
<v Speaker 2>And I'm sure all that was true back then.

877
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.159
<v Speaker 4>Especially Yeah, I mean for those who live in East

878
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:30.920
<v Speaker 4>Tennessee or western North Carolina. Newport had quite a reputation

879
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:35.760
<v Speaker 4>for brothels and cat house as they called it.

880
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:36.239
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

881
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were basically operating out in the open. It

882
00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:43.960
<v Speaker 2>was a known it was a widely known secret. If

883
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:45.480
<v Speaker 2>you will, to everyone nin.

884
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:48.840
<v Speaker 4>Of five forty, you got a lot of truckers transients.

885
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:54.039
<v Speaker 2>You can wind from Hot Springs, North Carolina. You can

886
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:57.000
<v Speaker 2>come that way and wind down by the river and

887
00:48:57.119 --> 00:48:58.119
<v Speaker 2>into Tennessee.

888
00:48:58.639 --> 00:48:59.400
<v Speaker 4>I bet you can.

889
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:04.239
<v Speaker 2>And there were many in more than one spot where

890
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:09.679
<v Speaker 2>they were running brothels, and I was always told that

891
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:13.239
<v Speaker 2>the local authorities were they knew about it, and if

892
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:17.480
<v Speaker 2>maybe even on the take. But you know, since in

893
00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:19.679
<v Speaker 2>the modern day, I believe they've cleaned all that up.

894
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.440
<v Speaker 2>It's not so so done out in the open at least.

895
00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:27.920
<v Speaker 2>And uh, there's definitely been plenty of marijuana grown in

896
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:30.760
<v Speaker 2>those woods because of the perfect environment for it, and

897
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:35.280
<v Speaker 2>it's a good place to hide it. And if if

898
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:38.239
<v Speaker 2>the authorities find the marijuana, they can't prove it's yours.

899
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:39.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's not on your land, it's not by

900
00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:43.880
<v Speaker 2>your house. And so that's a very common, very common

901
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.760
<v Speaker 2>move by people with these illegal growths to grow it

902
00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:47.920
<v Speaker 2>on national park land.

903
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:52.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I've heard stories about this my whole life. Also, Dylan,

904
00:49:53.199 --> 00:50:00.880
<v Speaker 4>I had this other idea, jen sing or saying jim So.

905
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:05.760
<v Speaker 4>Illegal gensing, harvesting, poaching, or sanging as they call it,

906
00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:09.360
<v Speaker 4>is a real and surprisingly intense underground economy in the

907
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:14.079
<v Speaker 4>Appalachian region, especially around the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

908
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:17.599
<v Speaker 4>Wild gen sing can sell for over eight hundred dollars

909
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:18.000
<v Speaker 4>a pound.

910
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Uh. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't know what the

911
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:22.320
<v Speaker 2>current prize, but I knew even back in the day,

912
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:24.400
<v Speaker 2>it would go for you know, seven eight hundred dollars

913
00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:27.320
<v Speaker 2>a pound, which is my gosh, that's what you know,

914
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:30.400
<v Speaker 2>marijuana sold for back in the day, you know what

915
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:30.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean.

916
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:33.440
<v Speaker 4>Older roots are worth more, but they can take up

917
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:37.239
<v Speaker 4>to ten years to mature. It's often called green gold

918
00:50:38.119 --> 00:50:39.679
<v Speaker 4>in Appalachia.

919
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the people who dig many follow the rules most,

920
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:48.679
<v Speaker 2>I would say, probably, but then there's some who don't,

921
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:51.920
<v Speaker 2>and they go harvest from national park lands or they

922
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:55.159
<v Speaker 2>go steal other people who's been digging. Some people dig

923
00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:58.199
<v Speaker 2>for years and get up, you know, pound many many

924
00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:02.039
<v Speaker 2>pounds of this dry root and sell it off. Because

925
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:06.559
<v Speaker 2>just think about how many products you see gensing in.

926
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:10.519
<v Speaker 2>It is not as far as I know, it is

927
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:15.960
<v Speaker 2>not commercially cultivated. It cannot be planted in big fields

928
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:18.920
<v Speaker 2>and grown like a field of corn or tobacco or

929
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:23.079
<v Speaker 2>anything like that, marijuana or marijuana, and now you have

930
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:26.960
<v Speaker 2>marijuana fields. But the saying has to grow wild. It

931
00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:30.039
<v Speaker 2>kind of just happens in the perfect spot in nature,

932
00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:34.800
<v Speaker 2>and you find these flowering plants with the little red

933
00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:37.320
<v Speaker 2>berries that have been growing for years, and then you know,

934
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:40.280
<v Speaker 2>of course the leaves and berries die. But then that's

935
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:43.119
<v Speaker 2>where you get this big, huge root from and it's

936
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:48.119
<v Speaker 2>and it's all pulled together in these large buyers and

937
00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:51.440
<v Speaker 2>from people who personally hand dig the stuff up. So

938
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:53.159
<v Speaker 2>it's a very lucrative business.

939
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:57.039
<v Speaker 4>Well, harvesting in the park is entirely illegal. Rangers even

940
00:51:57.159 --> 00:51:59.880
<v Speaker 4>use dyes on the Gensen plants, so like if a

941
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:02.719
<v Speaker 4>coacher tries to sell it, it will reveal that the

942
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:06.400
<v Speaker 4>plant was taken from the park. Digging, even a single

943
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:10.519
<v Speaker 4>route is a federal crime. So as a journalist, I

944
00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:14.199
<v Speaker 4>tried to investigate the gensing economy in western North Carolina

945
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.679
<v Speaker 4>at one point, and let me tell you, it is

946
00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:21.719
<v Speaker 4>a tight lipped community. I couldn't get a single licensed

947
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:27.000
<v Speaker 4>gensing buyer in the state to speak with me, not one. No,

948
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:28.480
<v Speaker 4>the people are.

949
00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:30.679
<v Speaker 2>Like the mafia, they really are.

950
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:34.400
<v Speaker 4>It is insular. If you mention gen sing and you

951
00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:36.880
<v Speaker 4>say like I'm a journalist, they hang up on you.

952
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:39.519
<v Speaker 4>They don't want to talk to you. They will shut

953
00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:42.119
<v Speaker 4>a door in your face. No.

954
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's some pretty interesting documentaries out there that will

955
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:48.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of if any of our listeners are more interested

956
00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:51.280
<v Speaker 2>in finding out about this. But yeah, basically you have

957
00:52:51.400 --> 00:52:54.199
<v Speaker 2>all the people digging, and then you'll have people who

958
00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:56.719
<v Speaker 2>pull it together in that community, and then you'll have buyer.

959
00:52:56.800 --> 00:52:59.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's no different than a drug network, and

960
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:02.639
<v Speaker 2>then you'll have people above them, and very quickly you

961
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:05.559
<v Speaker 2>can end up in rooms with hundreds of thousands, if

962
00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:09.960
<v Speaker 2>not millions, of dollars of cash on hand for these boys.

963
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:14.880
<v Speaker 4>There are informal networks of poachers who sell internationally organized

964
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:20.440
<v Speaker 4>investigations such as Operation Root calls targeted Genseen crime rings.

965
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:24.760
<v Speaker 4>And I'm telling y'all, if you happen upon somebody's gensing grow,

966
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:28.159
<v Speaker 4>it's dangerous. People will kill you.

967
00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:29.320
<v Speaker 2>You barely leave it alone.

968
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:32.880
<v Speaker 4>Bryson City man was sentenced to six months in federal

969
00:53:32.920 --> 00:53:36.639
<v Speaker 4>prison for illegal possession of or harvesting of American gensen

970
00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:40.199
<v Speaker 4>from the park in twenty fifteen. Billy Joe Hurley had

971
00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:44.599
<v Speaker 4>been convicted four previous times for the same crime. Poachers

972
00:53:44.599 --> 00:53:47.320
<v Speaker 4>are often repeatedly arrested for the offense.

973
00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Billy Joe Hurley, Yep, he sounds like old Gensang poacher.

974
00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:54.519
<v Speaker 4>Bryson City, North Carolina, which is in the heart of

975
00:53:54.559 --> 00:54:00.920
<v Speaker 4>the Smokies and the Nanajala National Forests. I said, there

976
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:05.440
<v Speaker 4>are many well documented cases of deadly confrontations between the landowners,

977
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:10.719
<v Speaker 4>landowners and poachers. I don't know why, Like I know,

978
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:15.800
<v Speaker 4>the drug angle is kind of big in this case.

979
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:18.239
<v Speaker 4>A lot of people that that's their theory and they

980
00:54:18.280 --> 00:54:21.039
<v Speaker 4>kind of go with that. But uh, just kind of

981
00:54:21.079 --> 00:54:25.039
<v Speaker 4>having grown up around the edges of the park. I

982
00:54:25.119 --> 00:54:27.280
<v Speaker 4>think you gotta look at Jen.

983
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:29.559
<v Speaker 2>Saying, well, yeah, if you have if you have a

984
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:32.519
<v Speaker 2>group of boachers doing something very illgal A lot of

985
00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:35.519
<v Speaker 2>times these guys are rough and tumble, certainly not afraid

986
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:39.599
<v Speaker 2>to fight, and maybe something even worse. And this doesn't

987
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:41.679
<v Speaker 2>mean every person that digs sang is.

988
00:54:41.719 --> 00:54:45.239
<v Speaker 4>Like no, but I have known, especially when I was

989
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:51.519
<v Speaker 4>much younger, older folks maybe associated with the some of

990
00:54:51.559 --> 00:54:56.079
<v Speaker 4>my relatives or whatever friends of the family, who were

991
00:54:56.119 --> 00:54:59.800
<v Speaker 4>definitely rough trade types. Yeah, they were some of the

992
00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:04.000
<v Speaker 4>only people I know who were into singing. And I

993
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:08.119
<v Speaker 4>wouldn't be surprised at all if they were illegally digging

994
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:10.880
<v Speaker 4>or poaching, because they were definitely, as you said, rough

995
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:12.039
<v Speaker 4>and tumbled type of folks.

996
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:13.719
<v Speaker 2>A lot of people will do it just for the

997
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:17.639
<v Speaker 2>love of it. It's a tradition. It's really from like

998
00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:21.119
<v Speaker 2>a hunter gatherer kind of perspective. A lot of people

999
00:55:21.199 --> 00:55:23.400
<v Speaker 2>do it for just a few extra bucks here and there,

1000
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:25.840
<v Speaker 2>because they know what they're looking for, they do it.

1001
00:55:25.880 --> 00:55:27.559
<v Speaker 2>They follow the rules absolutely.

1002
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:30.280
<v Speaker 4>They are a lot of people who do it legally

1003
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:32.840
<v Speaker 4>and it's just a kind of a mountain tradition. It's

1004
00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:34.239
<v Speaker 4>part of their mountain heritage.

1005
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Right. But I've known more than one that was a

1006
00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:39.440
<v Speaker 2>scary individual. I'm talking about people who do it for

1007
00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:43.039
<v Speaker 2>a living. Right. That season is a season, a very

1008
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:48.079
<v Speaker 2>short season when the plant's flower and you can identify

1009
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:53.000
<v Speaker 2>them more more readily. And yeah, and so they're going

1010
00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:58.039
<v Speaker 2>to use regular folks land to access the park in

1011
00:55:58.119 --> 00:56:01.400
<v Speaker 2>a non traditional way, right, because they're gonna these guys

1012
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:04.559
<v Speaker 2>will pack in, they'll they'll get their you know, their

1013
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:07.239
<v Speaker 2>their sacks or whatever, and they'll go live in the

1014
00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:09.920
<v Speaker 2>woods for days on end, living off the land literally,

1015
00:56:10.519 --> 00:56:13.239
<v Speaker 2>and you know, fill up these sacks. You're not gonna

1016
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:18.239
<v Speaker 2>drive down the parkway road or come walking the trailhead,

1017
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:22.239
<v Speaker 2>a known trailhead carrying this illegal stuff, because that's a

1018
00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:26.199
<v Speaker 2>good way to run into a ranger or anybody you

1019
00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:28.719
<v Speaker 2>see may know what you're doing and report you. So

1020
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:32.840
<v Speaker 2>they're going to access the park through people's lands, through

1021
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:37.000
<v Speaker 2>the deep woods, and this would very well could have

1022
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:41.360
<v Speaker 2>been a situation like that, considering his land, Mike's land

1023
00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:44.320
<v Speaker 2>back you know right up, he had a big chunk

1024
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.119
<v Speaker 2>of land right there on the park. So actually, I

1025
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:51.760
<v Speaker 2>think the same angle kind of carries more way or

1026
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:53.800
<v Speaker 2>makes more sense than illegal drugs.

1027
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:55.599
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's kind of what makes more sense to me.

1028
00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:59.800
<v Speaker 4>And then there are other theories about uh, you know, caves,

1029
00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:06.159
<v Speaker 4>underground caves, ravines that perhaps he fell into one of

1030
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:11.039
<v Speaker 4>these and you know, met his demise, and you know

1031
00:57:11.079 --> 00:57:16.840
<v Speaker 4>there's all these hidden cave systems allegedly under the mountains.

1032
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've seen people with some of them, these natural caves, caverns,

1033
00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:24.639
<v Speaker 2>I've seen. There's a real strong theory because you get

1034
00:57:24.639 --> 00:57:27.199
<v Speaker 2>into the missing four one one, yeah, and you get

1035
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:30.400
<v Speaker 2>into all these people to go missing out of nowhere

1036
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:33.000
<v Speaker 2>or just right around the corner from their friend, never

1037
00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:35.519
<v Speaker 2>to be seen again in the national parks all over

1038
00:57:35.559 --> 00:57:40.239
<v Speaker 2>the country, very strange stories. This actually kind of fits

1039
00:57:40.280 --> 00:57:44.360
<v Speaker 2>into that that same type of story. And some people

1040
00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:46.719
<v Speaker 2>claim that there's these natural cave systems, and if you

1041
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:49.400
<v Speaker 2>overlay where they think the cave systems are, they just

1042
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:53.119
<v Speaker 2>happen to be in the national park areas. So I

1043
00:57:53.159 --> 00:57:56.960
<v Speaker 2>mean that's a that's a really weird theory that there's

1044
00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:02.599
<v Speaker 2>tons of information on if anyone wants to pursue that ankle.

1045
00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:06.119
<v Speaker 2>But there's a I'll let you get all yours. Is

1046
00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:07.400
<v Speaker 2>that all the theories you've heard?

1047
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:09.599
<v Speaker 4>That is all the theories I've heard so far.

1048
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:12.679
<v Speaker 2>Because you're right on top of one of the very

1049
00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:17.000
<v Speaker 2>strangest conspiracy conspiracy theories that goes with the missing four

1050
00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:20.400
<v Speaker 2>to one one And some people say, instead of caves,

1051
00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:25.519
<v Speaker 2>what if the multiverse these portals, Sam Squinch, These people

1052
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:32.800
<v Speaker 2>are accidentally accessing these portals that takes them who knows,

1053
00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:37.480
<v Speaker 2>to another dimension, to some other part. Who knows where

1054
00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:40.239
<v Speaker 2>this could go back to it? Now, this gets really

1055
00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:46.320
<v Speaker 2>weird really quick. Some people believe that Bigfoot uses these

1056
00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:49.440
<v Speaker 2>portals to access our dimension, our world, if you will,

1057
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:53.960
<v Speaker 2>and that's why we never find that's why they're always

1058
00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:58.119
<v Speaker 2>in these very remote areas, and they're actually travelers from

1059
00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:01.639
<v Speaker 2>another dimension, they're not some dumb east What do you

1060
00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:02.480
<v Speaker 2>think about all that?

1061
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:06.360
<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean, it's a nice thought that Mike fell

1062
00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:11.800
<v Speaker 4>into some multiverse where he's in Scotland in like the

1063
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:15.800
<v Speaker 4>seventeen hundred outland. And yes, and there's Jamie in a

1064
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:19.320
<v Speaker 4>kilt and maybe Mike's kicking up his heels in a

1065
00:59:19.400 --> 00:59:23.320
<v Speaker 4>kilt somewhere. I don't know. I mean, I'm not going

1066
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:26.320
<v Speaker 4>to say that that's a ridiculous theory because I'm open

1067
00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:33.920
<v Speaker 4>to anything. I'm a believer of anything's possible, supernatural. There

1068
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:39.880
<v Speaker 4>could be parallel universe, multiverse, there could be stargates like

1069
00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:42.559
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, Oh it must certainly, I'm not going

1070
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:43.199
<v Speaker 4>to rule it out.

1071
00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:47.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a very strange, outlandish theory, let's be honest. Well

1072
00:59:47.079 --> 00:59:49.639
<v Speaker 2>it is, but the falling into a cave or a

1073
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:54.880
<v Speaker 2>natural the prep whatever hold if you will that no

1074
00:59:54.920 --> 00:59:56.840
<v Speaker 2>one knows about it, or even a man made hand

1075
00:59:56.920 --> 01:00:01.119
<v Speaker 2>dug well from you know, hundreds of years ago, that's

1076
01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:03.719
<v Speaker 2>possible too. I mean, that's something that could happen. You

1077
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:06.159
<v Speaker 2>go into you know, if you're on the edge of

1078
01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:08.960
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of kudzoo and you fall in this hole

1079
01:00:09.639 --> 01:00:13.639
<v Speaker 2>that you didn't know was there, and someone comes looking

1080
01:00:13.719 --> 01:00:17.079
<v Speaker 2>for you, unless they happened to poke their hand or

1081
01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:20.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, down through that kudzoo to the opening, you

1082
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:23.840
<v Speaker 2>would never see it. I mean, when kudzuo takes over

1083
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:26.599
<v Speaker 2>an area, if people have seen it I'm sure many have.

1084
01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:31.400
<v Speaker 2>It's almost an impossible place to search the way it grows, So,

1085
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:34.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, these things could happen. So I don't know

1086
01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:37.519
<v Speaker 2>what happened to him, but it's a very strange story.

1087
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:41.039
<v Speaker 4>It's a very strange story. Mike is remembered as a

1088
01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:44.440
<v Speaker 4>very social person who had a big laugh. Mike had

1089
01:00:44.440 --> 01:00:48.199
<v Speaker 4>looked forward to being a grandfather. His sons are now fathers,

1090
01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:52.000
<v Speaker 4>and it's really sad that Mike has grandchildren now who've

1091
01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:55.960
<v Speaker 4>never known him, especially given that he really wanted to

1092
01:00:55.960 --> 01:00:56.559
<v Speaker 4>be grandpa.

1093
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, that really is sad.

1094
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:01.760
<v Speaker 4>Andy and Matt think Mike was the victim of foul play.

1095
01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:05.960
<v Speaker 4>Matt believes he uncovered something that you know, shouldn't have

1096
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.559
<v Speaker 4>been happening. They say Mike didn't have enemies and was

1097
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:15.039
<v Speaker 4>not confrontational. However, he didn't back down from a fight either, Matt.

1098
01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:18.920
<v Speaker 4>Matt said his father was definitely like a standiard ground

1099
01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:23.880
<v Speaker 4>type of guy. Matt also pointed to the ATV's location,

1100
01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:27.440
<v Speaker 4>and he feels that it's a clue that foul play

1101
01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:31.360
<v Speaker 4>was involved because Mike wouldn't even like be in that

1102
01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:35.320
<v Speaker 4>area or on that road, according to his sons, and

1103
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:41.440
<v Speaker 4>would have never left the ATV positioned in such an odd,

1104
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:43.239
<v Speaker 4>you know way.

1105
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think the ATV is the one thing you

1106
01:01:46.519 --> 01:01:51.400
<v Speaker 2>can't forget about. It certainly seems like no one would

1107
01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:54.440
<v Speaker 2>leave their equipment like that because it's just going to

1108
01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:57.440
<v Speaker 2>go dead. It was a new ATV. I don't think

1109
01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:00.480
<v Speaker 2>he's going to run it off into the which you know,

1110
01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:03.719
<v Speaker 2>some people don't care if they have They buy stuff

1111
01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:05.320
<v Speaker 2>like that to use it, and they don't care about

1112
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:08.599
<v Speaker 2>scratches and stuff. But it just seemed a very odd placement.

1113
01:02:08.840 --> 01:02:11.039
<v Speaker 2>It certainly sounds like someone was trying to hide the

1114
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:15.039
<v Speaker 2>a TV, which Mike's not going to do that. So

1115
01:02:15.079 --> 01:02:18.400
<v Speaker 2>I think that one piece of evidence kind of gives

1116
01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:21.320
<v Speaker 2>weight to the fact that maybe he ran across someone

1117
01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:25.360
<v Speaker 2>doing something illegal or or something bad, or he saw

1118
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:30.480
<v Speaker 2>someone doing something and in turn, you know, they did

1119
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:32.079
<v Speaker 2>something to him to keep them quiet.

1120
01:02:32.199 --> 01:02:35.840
<v Speaker 4>Right, because he was not dressed properly for like a

1121
01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:39.400
<v Speaker 4>hike into the woods. He had on the cargo shorts.

1122
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:43.440
<v Speaker 4>You know, if you're going into thick growth vegetation like that,

1123
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:48.239
<v Speaker 4>into dense forest, right, there's vines and thorns and all

1124
01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:51.920
<v Speaker 4>kinds of little stickers and things that poke you. You're

1125
01:02:51.960 --> 01:02:52.960
<v Speaker 4>gonna want to wear pants.

1126
01:02:53.119 --> 01:02:56.320
<v Speaker 2>You're gonna want pants, thick socks, good boots.

1127
01:02:56.039 --> 01:03:00.239
<v Speaker 4>Boots, probably want to have like a machete or something

1128
01:03:00.320 --> 01:03:04.320
<v Speaker 4>like that with you, or hatchet to hack through. He

1129
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:08.440
<v Speaker 4>just seemed really ill prepared for an excursion into the woods.

1130
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:11.519
<v Speaker 4>I mean again, it sounds like he planned to, you know,

1131
01:03:11.559 --> 01:03:15.000
<v Speaker 4>hop on this four wheeler right over to the neighbor's property,

1132
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:19.440
<v Speaker 4>maybe assess the growth there, see what it looked like,

1133
01:03:19.519 --> 01:03:21.719
<v Speaker 4>what he needed to do, and then come back and

1134
01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:25.400
<v Speaker 4>get the mower right right, So something had to happen

1135
01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:29.320
<v Speaker 4>obviously between his property and the neighbor's property.

1136
01:03:29.719 --> 01:03:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, and that sounds like that's definitely what happened, but

1137
01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:35.480
<v Speaker 2>we don't know what happened, right.

1138
01:03:35.559 --> 01:03:39.159
<v Speaker 4>But you know, it's interesting too that they perform these

1139
01:03:39.199 --> 01:03:43.800
<v Speaker 4>extensive searches, you know, five hundred acres of property searched

1140
01:03:43.880 --> 01:03:47.000
<v Speaker 4>and doing grid searches those kind of like hand to

1141
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:51.360
<v Speaker 4>hand like everybody spreads out searches, and did not find

1142
01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:54.480
<v Speaker 4>a hide nor hair of mic And that's just very

1143
01:03:54.480 --> 01:03:57.760
<v Speaker 4>strange to me, it is, especially if it had been

1144
01:03:57.800 --> 01:03:59.519
<v Speaker 4>an accident or something like that.

1145
01:04:00.159 --> 01:04:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because they searched for days on end there at first,

1146
01:04:05.159 --> 01:04:06.199
<v Speaker 2>so if someone.

1147
01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:08.280
<v Speaker 4>Had just gown through different seasons.

1148
01:04:07.880 --> 01:04:11.400
<v Speaker 2>And through different seasons, and if someone, especially at first,

1149
01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:16.679
<v Speaker 2>is someone let's say, killed Mike, because you know, for

1150
01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:21.119
<v Speaker 2>whatever reason, you will have things like buzzards. I mean,

1151
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:23.199
<v Speaker 2>you're going to have sign something that may point you

1152
01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:28.920
<v Speaker 2>to where he's actually at. And it's just very weird

1153
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:32.280
<v Speaker 2>to never see any remains, no signs of him.

1154
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:36.519
<v Speaker 4>Well, and how do you explain if he had an

1155
01:04:36.559 --> 01:04:40.559
<v Speaker 4>accident that the ATV was parked in a tone you.

1156
01:04:40.519 --> 01:04:45.119
<v Speaker 2>Can someone put that there? Yeah, so yeah, it's very weird.

1157
01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:48.480
<v Speaker 4>Well, hopefully one day the family will have answers and

1158
01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:52.239
<v Speaker 4>get some closure because it's such a strange case. Like

1159
01:04:52.280 --> 01:04:54.880
<v Speaker 4>I said, it's a real mountain mystery.

1160
01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:57.960
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately, I don't think there's a very high chance of

1161
01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:02.639
<v Speaker 2>that because whoever, if he did come across someone, they're

1162
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:07.280
<v Speaker 2>probably very tight lipped with it about it, and there

1163
01:05:07.280 --> 01:05:09.119
<v Speaker 2>probably weren't a lot of people involved.

1164
01:05:09.760 --> 01:05:12.639
<v Speaker 4>Will you just never know, Dylan, You don't. There could

1165
01:05:12.679 --> 01:05:16.719
<v Speaker 4>be an ex wife or girlfriend or someone out there

1166
01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:21.519
<v Speaker 4>who's been wronged that might eventually come out with the truth.

1167
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:22.480
<v Speaker 3>People talk.

1168
01:05:22.719 --> 01:05:25.880
<v Speaker 4>I mean, it can take decades sometimes, but that's how

1169
01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:28.079
<v Speaker 4>you know. There have been a lot of cold cases

1170
01:05:28.159 --> 01:05:32.039
<v Speaker 4>solved because someone decided to come forward twenty thirty forty

1171
01:05:32.119 --> 01:05:34.400
<v Speaker 4>years later and tell what they know.

1172
01:05:34.880 --> 01:05:36.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, and those people, some of those people

1173
01:05:36.800 --> 01:05:39.079
<v Speaker 2>kill me because they knew about this for all this time,

1174
01:05:39.159 --> 01:05:42.199
<v Speaker 2>and then they wait until that person pisses them off

1175
01:05:42.280 --> 01:05:46.079
<v Speaker 2>or something crosses them, and then they tell because I

1176
01:05:46.119 --> 01:05:49.440
<v Speaker 2>would never keep this secret for you. Right, if you

1177
01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:51.559
<v Speaker 2>have this, this man, this regular.

1178
01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:51.840
<v Speaker 3>It's good to know.

1179
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, not no, we're telling you shit then well, I mean,

1180
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:57.800
<v Speaker 2>if you just killed some random person because you're doing

1181
01:05:57.800 --> 01:06:01.119
<v Speaker 2>some criminal shit, I mean, come on, that's not okay.

1182
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:01.599
<v Speaker 4>It's not.

1183
01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:02.239
<v Speaker 2>No.

1184
01:06:03.320 --> 01:06:05.440
<v Speaker 4>I guess I can't tell you about my day job.

1185
01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:08.280
<v Speaker 2>You don't. You didn't do that. Now, if we're out

1186
01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:14.119
<v Speaker 2>hunting pedophiles and you know, and women beaters and stuff

1187
01:06:14.159 --> 01:06:16.760
<v Speaker 2>like that, hey, I'm all for it.

1188
01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:21.039
<v Speaker 4>You're all for some vigilante and justice will sleep like

1189
01:06:21.079 --> 01:06:27.159
<v Speaker 4>a baby. Oh, Dylan, you're silly. Thank you for sitting

1190
01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:29.559
<v Speaker 4>down with me today to discuss Mike's case.

1191
01:06:30.280 --> 01:06:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for working on your birthday.

1192
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:32.960
<v Speaker 4>You're welcome.

1193
01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:34.320
<v Speaker 2>We appreciate it.

1194
01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:35.119
<v Speaker 4>I enjoyed it.

1195
01:06:36.039 --> 01:06:39.559
<v Speaker 2>And thank you to everyone, all our listeners, all our patrons,

1196
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:43.559
<v Speaker 2>our newest patron. Thank you, Erin, thank you Erin, thank

1197
01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:46.679
<v Speaker 2>you so much for your support. And uh yeah, I

1198
01:06:46.719 --> 01:06:48.000
<v Speaker 2>got nothing else, You've.

1199
01:06:47.920 --> 01:06:48.760
<v Speaker 4>Got nothing else.

1200
01:06:48.800 --> 01:06:50.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm all, I'm all, I'm spent well.

1201
01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:54.400
<v Speaker 4>We will be back in a few days with the midweek.

1202
01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:55.360
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait.

1203
01:06:55.440 --> 01:06:57.880
<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna I'm gonna hold you to it, Dylan, your

1204
01:06:57.880 --> 01:07:00.719
<v Speaker 4>feet to the fire, all right, keeping to a schedule.

1205
01:07:01.519 --> 01:07:02.800
<v Speaker 2>Bye Dylan, Bye,