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<v Speaker 1>So we have a very interestory, very interesting story for

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<v Speaker 1>you this afternoon. As a psychic from Dartmouth College, Marcelo

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<v Speaker 1>Glasser insists that reality in which we live cannot possibly

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<v Speaker 1>be simulated.

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<v Speaker 2>But you mean physicist.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I'm pretty sure that was supposed to

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<v Speaker 1>be physicists and no one's going to get that reference.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyways, Uh, okay, all right, all right, right, let

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<v Speaker 1>me change it up a bit. This is your chance

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<v Speaker 1>after this, there is no turning back. You take the

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<v Speaker 1>blue pill and skip ahead about twenty minutes. Then you

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<v Speaker 1>can believe whatever you have been told by others. Or

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<v Speaker 1>you could take the brown pill and you stay with

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<v Speaker 1>your favorite nonprofits, and I'll show you just how deep

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<v Speaker 1>this rabbit hole goes. It's okay, it's iduprofen and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>over forty. So yeah, we've got an article about how

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<v Speaker 1>a simulation theory. We've heard it on the show many

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<v Speaker 1>many times, where people do believe that our reality is simulated. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>but I would say that let's go ahead and throw

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<v Speaker 1>it to tale. What do you think about the simulation

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<v Speaker 1>theory not being possible?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, the silly idea is silly? What a surprise, so

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<v Speaker 3>shocking whenever I read something that one guy said something,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm always skeptical because you need a whole community, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>realizing that, oh yeah, those findings kind of make sense

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<v Speaker 3>and we can't try this. But so, of course, as

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<v Speaker 3>soon as I read this, I was like, yeah, sure,

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<v Speaker 3>this must be something incredible that this guy discovered. But no,

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<v Speaker 3>it's just trying to explain why this philosophical idea of No,

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<v Speaker 3>either it's my mind creating everything around me. Which come on,

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<v Speaker 3>I could never create this world that surrounds me. It's

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<v Speaker 3>not that I don't like it, but I just don't

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<v Speaker 3>like it.

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<v Speaker 2>Or don't hold yourself, don't sell yourself short tile.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, you're right. If my mind is as awesome as

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<v Speaker 3>I think, I could create somebody as you. Of course,

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<v Speaker 3>dear queen, of.

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<v Speaker 2>Course you see see you know, raging seconds around here.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course, totally okay, maybe my mind could create this

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<v Speaker 3>and give me the problems that I have right now. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>who knows. Maybe it's a shitty mind. Who knows. But

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<v Speaker 3>if we try to go with the other idea, oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>there is a matrix. A perfect matrix is impossible because

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<v Speaker 3>perfection is unnattainable, and a real matrix would have lots

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<v Speaker 3>of witches that everybody would be exploiting. This guy tries

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<v Speaker 3>to go even further beyond and try to explain that, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>that matrix needed somebody to create the matrix that needed

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<v Speaker 3>another matrix where it was created. So it's just you know,

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<v Speaker 3>infinite regression, and this whole article more like a philosophical discussion.

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<v Speaker 3>That's something that a physicist would try to, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>explain tale.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just it's turtles all the way down.

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<v Speaker 3>It's sort to sort their way down. Of course, sure,

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<v Speaker 3>I yes, of course.

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<v Speaker 4>Well I got super excited just reading this because for

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<v Speaker 4>me personally, this is kind of different than what we've

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<v Speaker 4>talked about before run here, at least when I've been

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<v Speaker 4>on here. So uh really, I just chalk it up

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<v Speaker 4>to sounds cool to think about. Not a physicist, I

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<v Speaker 4>don't really know how it works. I think the implications

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<v Speaker 4>of it maybe you're a little eh, but I don't know.

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<v Speaker 4>It just seems like a cool thing to me. I

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<v Speaker 4>think we should definitely look into it and try to

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<v Speaker 4>test it if we can. I saw one of the

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<v Speaker 4>people was saying that there might be a way to

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<v Speaker 4>test it, and I don't know anything really about physics.

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<v Speaker 4>I try to stay away from physics. We're not friends,

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<v Speaker 4>I have, I have beef with physics. But you know,

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's into we.

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<v Speaker 2>Try to fold in some protein into your nonprofits diet, right.

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<v Speaker 5>Right, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>I just the only thing I think I didn't like

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<v Speaker 4>about this article in particular was that someone said we

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<v Speaker 4>can't prove we're not living in a simulation. And I

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<v Speaker 4>believe that was a philosophist, philosopher that was saying that,

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<v Speaker 4>but they yeah, they were basically saying that we can't

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<v Speaker 4>prove we're not living in a simulation. And I'm like,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm kind of getting the you can't prove there isn't

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<v Speaker 4>a god vibes, and I don't really like that. It

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<v Speaker 4>just seems like the argument from incredulity of you know,

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<v Speaker 4>I don't understand therefore, you know, And so I'm like,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not gonna say I understand it.

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<v Speaker 5>I definitely don't. It's way over my head.

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<v Speaker 4>But I feel like there is a neutral position, and

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<v Speaker 4>I feel like, you know, maybe I didn't look into

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<v Speaker 4>the article as much, maybe they did say this, but

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<v Speaker 4>I feel like there's a neutral position. There's we are

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<v Speaker 4>living in a simulation, and there's we are not living

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<v Speaker 4>in a simulation, and then there's people like me who

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<v Speaker 4>are in the middle, going mmm, I don't know, sounds cool.

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<v Speaker 4>I have no idea, so my stances, I don't believe it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's cool to think about, but until there's evidence for it,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm kind of just like cool story bro. It doesn't

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<v Speaker 4>really impact my life very much, but I definitely definitely

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<v Speaker 4>think it should be explored, and it just sounds fascinating

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<v Speaker 4>to me, and I probably will go bene some YouTube

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<v Speaker 4>videos about it after this, all right, Jason.

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<v Speaker 2>Jason, all right, so down occasionally.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, so, I mean you said some things there, like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you don't understand the the physics behind that,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's perfectly understandable. And there are so many different

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<v Speaker 1>type of simulation theories. You know, We've got some popular

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<v Speaker 1>ones like the matrix or the sims where you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're just plugged into a computer or we are the

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<v Speaker 1>program and somebody is controlling us. They talked about now

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<v Speaker 1>in this article, they briefly touched on something to do

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<v Speaker 1>about cosmic rays that studying them can somehow And I

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<v Speaker 1>tried to read that paper and it was like a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of different academic papers full of semantic nonsense. But

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<v Speaker 1>another one that I never heard was the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>a minecraft thing where the universe is just broken up

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<v Speaker 1>into little chunks and as you move into one chunk

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<v Speaker 1>or another, it builds a whole new thing. I'm like, Okay, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's really cool. But like there's trying to look

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<v Speaker 1>out into the deep cosmos to try to find the

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<v Speaker 1>pixels of the universe. Sometimes they go deep into like

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<v Speaker 1>the plank level of things to try to see that

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<v Speaker 1>oh well, maybe electrons and neutrons. There are ones and

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<v Speaker 1>zeros of the massive program and all of it is

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of like like you said, August, it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of cool story bro. And yeah, how you

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<v Speaker 1>create a tool to within the universe, within that computer,

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<v Speaker 1>within that virtual machine to use a computer term to

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<v Speaker 1>then go outside and see the environment further as it is. Again, personally,

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<v Speaker 1>I have my own personal un controulty. But at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the day, I can say, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>but if you come up with something, I'm willing to

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<v Speaker 1>listen to it.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I have to jump in here. But whenever

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<v Speaker 2>anyone uses phrasey onlygin like we can't prove we're not

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<v Speaker 2>xxxtually in this situation, divving in a simulation. I feel

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<v Speaker 2>they just haven't got a clue that what they're talking about,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're just going no criticism, criticism, go away, please,

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<v Speaker 2>no no, no, no, no no, no no no. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>we can't prove that a deity just wanted to desist.

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<v Speaker 2>That doesn't mean that I go around bathing in Pascal's wager,

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<v Speaker 2>going oh look, I can't prove it doesn't exist. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>these claims from these proponents, and there are different people

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<v Speaker 2>claiming that lizard people are running the British monarchy, or

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the elders of Zion have invaded Mars or something.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, these are created, in some cases so far

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<v Speaker 2>outside the Overton window that they can't even be thrown

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<v Speaker 2>back through it to be defenestrated through the Overton window.

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<v Speaker 2>We have got to a point where somebody has come

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<v Speaker 2>along and gone up. I think that we could be

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<v Speaker 2>living in a simulation. I can't prove it's not a simulation,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm going to say it is a simulation, rather

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<v Speaker 2>than going, why on Earth am I saying it's a

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<v Speaker 2>simulation in the first place? Ah, And I mean, it

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<v Speaker 2>just gets to the point where I could say I

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<v Speaker 2>live inside this ruler and I come out of it

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen times a day to talk to other people, but

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<v Speaker 2>I live inside this ruler. I can't prove I don't

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<v Speaker 2>live inside that ruler, but that's where we are. And

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<v Speaker 2>I feel I may have over extended the metaphor here.

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<v Speaker 2>So if I, you know, very summer breezy, kind of

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<v Speaker 2>August can take me out of my you know, wonderful

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<v Speaker 2>ruler that I've got here, I'd be very much appreciative.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>I just think it's kind of just, uh wow, this

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<v Speaker 4>is really cool. And I know in certain things, like

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<v Speaker 4>I've seen untruth wanted people call in about simulation theory

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<v Speaker 4>all the time and it's like, you're not.

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<v Speaker 5>A physicist, you don't know what's going on, but whatever.

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<v Speaker 4>I also, I think I kind of chalk it up

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<v Speaker 4>to the same thing as like the I believe it's

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<v Speaker 4>the Fermi paradox, where it's.

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<v Speaker 5>Like, where's all the other intelligent life?

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<v Speaker 4>And there's some people who are like, oh, there's aliens,

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<v Speaker 4>and then there's like, no, there's no way there's any

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<v Speaker 4>kind of life outside of us that's intelligent.

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<v Speaker 5>And I'm sitting here like, I don't know, sounds cool.

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<v Speaker 5>I want to look into it, but like it's kind

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<v Speaker 5>of just like a mind bigling just blows my mind

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<v Speaker 5>every time. It's way over my head.

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<v Speaker 4>But one thing I do want to bring up kind

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<v Speaker 4>of circle it back to the potentially religious side of it,

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<v Speaker 4>is the fact that if there's a simulation, it brings

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<v Speaker 4>to the forefront the idea of free will. And if

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<v Speaker 4>there is free will, and I believe that, like you know,

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<v Speaker 4>even amongst you know, non believer skeptics, there's.

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<v Speaker 5>A lot of discussion about.

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<v Speaker 4>Whether we think we have free will or not, and

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<v Speaker 4>completely absent of religion, and there's a lot of people

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<v Speaker 4>without religion who say, no, I don't think we have

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<v Speaker 4>free will, and there's others that say, yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 4>maybe we do. We're autonomous. So I thought that was

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<v Speaker 4>really cool to think about. Well, if we are just

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<v Speaker 4>in the SIMS four, then you know, what does that

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<v Speaker 4>mean for our decisions? And I think it could go

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<v Speaker 4>into brain chemistry and all this kind of stuff. So

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<v Speaker 4>it is a definitely a rabbit hole of things. So

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<v Speaker 4>what do you think, Tia.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I was going to say exactly the same about

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<v Speaker 3>free will, because it's hard to be find it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>what is free will? Is it actually being able to

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<v Speaker 3>do anything that you want, because that is not possible

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<v Speaker 3>due to many things that are going to define if

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<v Speaker 3>you have the capacity to do it, resources, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 3>et cetera. Or is it making my own choices because

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<v Speaker 3>we know that the brain decides before I can make

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<v Speaker 3>my thoughts conscious. So yes, you said it's very hard

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<v Speaker 3>to know what is actually going on, and what you

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned about the alien things. One of my favorite comics

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<v Speaker 3>that I've seen is Two Figures. One guy is talking

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<v Speaker 3>to a figure. They are looking at the stars, and

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<v Speaker 3>one says, are we alone in the universe? And the

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<v Speaker 3>figure answers, yes, we are. Oh so there are no

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<v Speaker 3>others out there? Yes, they are alone too, because of

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<v Speaker 3>course distals are so huge that it's you know, we

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<v Speaker 3>are all alone in the universe because other life it's

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<v Speaker 3>separated by millions and billions of years. And now that

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<v Speaker 3>we're talking about these crazy theories, may I introduce you

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<v Speaker 3>to the theocentric theory of the universe, where the whole

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<v Speaker 3>universe was created just for me.

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<v Speaker 2>It's my new really universe was crazy for me, me,

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<v Speaker 2>me and my ego.

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<v Speaker 3>Why my theocentric universe is the theory of the universe

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<v Speaker 3>is another thing, but we will have to describe it.

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<v Speaker 3>But okay, okay, Phoebe, what do you want to say?

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<v Speaker 1>Phoebe is just an NPC in my universe.

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<v Speaker 2>I was chatting to join it to Elier and he's

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<v Speaker 2>got some experiment that he wants to try. So so

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<v Speaker 2>let's have this experiment of yours that we were chatting

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<v Speaker 2>about earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>Come on, okay, so everybody go ahead and raise your arm.

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<v Speaker 1>It's gonna be a little bit hard because of the

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<v Speaker 1>him that we're in. But everybody raised your arm. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>you all lost your free will?

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<v Speaker 3>You ast you, I willed you.

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<v Speaker 1>I willed you to raise your arm.

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<v Speaker 5>Wow, And so therefore that's that's deep, bro.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, can I put it down yet?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 5>Sure?

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<v Speaker 3>Why not? Jason? What if I was not able to

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<v Speaker 3>raise my hand? Good? That means that I don't help

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<v Speaker 3>free will either. Well maybe you do.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe you don't be because maybe by me exerting my

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<v Speaker 1>will on you, I actually wanted you to not raise

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<v Speaker 1>your hand. So again we're going into a kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a solid system.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>That was Yeah, there you go. Yeah, so it could

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<v Speaker 1>have It could have been that you don't know because

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<v Speaker 1>already I exerted my will, whether you wanted to or not,

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<v Speaker 1>whether I wanted you to or not. How do you

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<v Speaker 1>prove that? So again, the idea of free will is

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<v Speaker 1>something that is so innately weird because at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of this episode, I'm gonna still have to go to work.

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<v Speaker 3>That's true. If life was so easy as to say, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>there is a God and he gave us free will

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<v Speaker 3>and not think about it, life would be so easy.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh wait, No, it makes things even worse because now

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<v Speaker 3>you're not thinking you're wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>But where did evidence some reason go? I mean, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>one of these strange people. Present it's an evidence, present

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<v Speaker 2>me with some reason or frankly, get out of town.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, get out, clear off. But I mean I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna be a bit of a poopoo a hit this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff. I just switch off. I just I

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<v Speaker 2>just switch off. I mean, I find these things have

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<v Speaker 2>less substance in them than my copy of the National

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<v Speaker 2>Enquirer that I enjoy reading. But I think that we've

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<v Speaker 2>potentially overextended this part. But I leave you with something

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<v Speaker 2>that Jason's going to like that psychics at Caltech and

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<v Speaker 2>the Femory National Accelerator Lab. You know what, I'm pretty

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<v Speaker 2>sure is supposed to be physicists, because I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>the psychics that are coming up with this rubish. But yes,

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<v Speaker 2>don't anybody had any final thing that they wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>say before we, you know, put this one out to tenure.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, don't scientists have a term for this, something called

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<v Speaker 3>mental masturvation. If I'm not mistaken for these idios,