Speaker 1: So we have a very interestory, very interesting story for
Speaker 1: you this afternoon. As a psychic from Dartmouth College, Marcelo
Speaker 1: Glasser insists that reality in which we live cannot possibly
Speaker 1: be simulated.
Speaker 2: But you mean physicist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm pretty sure that was supposed to
Speaker 1: be physicists and no one's going to get that reference.
Speaker 1: But anyways, Uh, okay, all right, all right, right, let
Speaker 1: me change it up a bit. This is your chance
Speaker 1: after this, there is no turning back. You take the
Speaker 1: blue pill and skip ahead about twenty minutes. Then you
Speaker 1: can believe whatever you have been told by others. Or
Speaker 1: you could take the brown pill and you stay with
Speaker 1: your favorite nonprofits, and I'll show you just how deep
Speaker 1: this rabbit hole goes. It's okay, it's iduprofen and I'm
Speaker 1: over forty. So yeah, we've got an article about how
Speaker 1: a simulation theory. We've heard it on the show many
Speaker 1: many times, where people do believe that our reality is simulated. Uh,
Speaker 1: but I would say that let's go ahead and throw
Speaker 1: it to tale. What do you think about the simulation
Speaker 1: theory not being possible?
Speaker 3: Oh, the silly idea is silly? What a surprise, so
Speaker 3: shocking whenever I read something that one guy said something,
Speaker 3: I'm always skeptical because you need a whole community, you know,
Speaker 3: realizing that, oh yeah, those findings kind of make sense
Speaker 3: and we can't try this. But so, of course, as
Speaker 3: soon as I read this, I was like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 3: this must be something incredible that this guy discovered. But no,
Speaker 3: it's just trying to explain why this philosophical idea of No,
Speaker 3: either it's my mind creating everything around me. Which come on,
Speaker 3: I could never create this world that surrounds me. It's
Speaker 3: not that I don't like it, but I just don't
Speaker 3: like it.
Speaker 2: Or don't hold yourself, don't sell yourself short tile.
Speaker 3: Okay, you're right. If my mind is as awesome as
Speaker 3: I think, I could create somebody as you. Of course,
Speaker 3: dear queen, of.
Speaker 2: Course you see see you know, raging seconds around here.
Speaker 3: Of course, totally okay, maybe my mind could create this
Speaker 3: and give me the problems that I have right now. Yeah,
Speaker 3: who knows. Maybe it's a shitty mind. Who knows. But
Speaker 3: if we try to go with the other idea, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: there is a matrix. A perfect matrix is impossible because
Speaker 3: perfection is unnattainable, and a real matrix would have lots
Speaker 3: of witches that everybody would be exploiting. This guy tries
Speaker 3: to go even further beyond and try to explain that, Okay,
Speaker 3: that matrix needed somebody to create the matrix that needed
Speaker 3: another matrix where it was created. So it's just you know,
Speaker 3: infinite regression, and this whole article more like a philosophical discussion.
Speaker 3: That's something that a physicist would try to, you know,
Speaker 3: explain tale.
Speaker 1: It's just it's turtles all the way down.
Speaker 3: It's sort to sort their way down. Of course, sure,
Speaker 3: I yes, of course.
Speaker 4: Well I got super excited just reading this because for
Speaker 4: me personally, this is kind of different than what we've
Speaker 4: talked about before run here, at least when I've been
Speaker 4: on here. So uh really, I just chalk it up
Speaker 4: to sounds cool to think about. Not a physicist, I
Speaker 4: don't really know how it works. I think the implications
Speaker 4: of it maybe you're a little eh, but I don't know.
Speaker 4: It just seems like a cool thing to me. I
Speaker 4: think we should definitely look into it and try to
Speaker 4: test it if we can. I saw one of the
Speaker 4: people was saying that there might be a way to
Speaker 4: test it, and I don't know anything really about physics.
Speaker 4: I try to stay away from physics. We're not friends,
Speaker 4: I have, I have beef with physics. But you know,
Speaker 4: I think it's into we.
Speaker 2: Try to fold in some protein into your nonprofits diet, right.
Speaker 5: Right, you know.
Speaker 4: I just the only thing I think I didn't like
Speaker 4: about this article in particular was that someone said we
Speaker 4: can't prove we're not living in a simulation. And I
Speaker 4: believe that was a philosophist, philosopher that was saying that,
Speaker 4: but they yeah, they were basically saying that we can't
Speaker 4: prove we're not living in a simulation. And I'm like,
Speaker 4: I'm kind of getting the you can't prove there isn't
Speaker 4: a god vibes, and I don't really like that. It
Speaker 4: just seems like the argument from incredulity of you know,
Speaker 4: I don't understand therefore, you know, And so I'm like,
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna say I understand it.
Speaker 5: I definitely don't. It's way over my head.
Speaker 4: But I feel like there is a neutral position, and
Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, maybe I didn't look into
Speaker 4: the article as much, maybe they did say this, but
Speaker 4: I feel like there's a neutral position. There's we are
Speaker 4: living in a simulation, and there's we are not living
Speaker 4: in a simulation, and then there's people like me who
Speaker 4: are in the middle, going mmm, I don't know, sounds cool.
Speaker 4: I have no idea, so my stances, I don't believe it.
Speaker 4: It's cool to think about, but until there's evidence for it,
Speaker 4: I'm kind of just like cool story bro. It doesn't
Speaker 4: really impact my life very much, but I definitely definitely
Speaker 4: think it should be explored, and it just sounds fascinating
Speaker 4: to me, and I probably will go bene some YouTube
Speaker 4: videos about it after this, all right, Jason.
Speaker 2: Jason, all right, so down occasionally.
Speaker 1: Well, so, I mean you said some things there, like,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't understand the the physics behind that,
Speaker 1: and that's perfectly understandable. And there are so many different
Speaker 1: type of simulation theories. You know, We've got some popular
Speaker 1: ones like the matrix or the sims where you know,
Speaker 1: we're just plugged into a computer or we are the
Speaker 1: program and somebody is controlling us. They talked about now
Speaker 1: in this article, they briefly touched on something to do
Speaker 1: about cosmic rays that studying them can somehow And I
Speaker 1: tried to read that paper and it was like a
Speaker 1: lot of different academic papers full of semantic nonsense. But
Speaker 1: another one that I never heard was the idea of
Speaker 1: a minecraft thing where the universe is just broken up
Speaker 1: into little chunks and as you move into one chunk
Speaker 1: or another, it builds a whole new thing. I'm like, Okay, wow,
Speaker 1: that's that's really cool. But like there's trying to look
Speaker 1: out into the deep cosmos to try to find the
Speaker 1: pixels of the universe. Sometimes they go deep into like
Speaker 1: the plank level of things to try to see that
Speaker 1: oh well, maybe electrons and neutrons. There are ones and
Speaker 1: zeros of the massive program and all of it is
Speaker 1: just kind of like like you said, August, it's it's
Speaker 1: a lot of cool story bro. And yeah, how you
Speaker 1: create a tool to within the universe, within that computer,
Speaker 1: within that virtual machine to use a computer term to
Speaker 1: then go outside and see the environment further as it is. Again, personally,
Speaker 1: I have my own personal un controulty. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I can say, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but if you come up with something, I'm willing to
Speaker 1: listen to it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I have to jump in here. But whenever
Speaker 2: anyone uses phrasey onlygin like we can't prove we're not
Speaker 2: xxxtually in this situation, divving in a simulation. I feel
Speaker 2: they just haven't got a clue that what they're talking about,
Speaker 2: and they're just going no criticism, criticism, go away, please,
Speaker 2: no no, no, no, no no, no no no. I mean,
Speaker 2: we can't prove that a deity just wanted to desist.
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that I go around bathing in Pascal's wager,
Speaker 2: going oh look, I can't prove it doesn't exist. I mean,
Speaker 2: these claims from these proponents, and there are different people
Speaker 2: claiming that lizard people are running the British monarchy, or
Speaker 2: you know, the elders of Zion have invaded Mars or something.
Speaker 2: I mean, these are created, in some cases so far
Speaker 2: outside the Overton window that they can't even be thrown
Speaker 2: back through it to be defenestrated through the Overton window.
Speaker 2: We have got to a point where somebody has come
Speaker 2: along and gone up. I think that we could be
Speaker 2: living in a simulation. I can't prove it's not a simulation,
Speaker 2: so I'm going to say it is a simulation, rather
Speaker 2: than going, why on Earth am I saying it's a
Speaker 2: simulation in the first place? Ah, And I mean, it
Speaker 2: just gets to the point where I could say I
Speaker 2: live inside this ruler and I come out of it
Speaker 2: fifteen times a day to talk to other people, but
Speaker 2: I live inside this ruler. I can't prove I don't
Speaker 2: live inside that ruler, but that's where we are. And
Speaker 2: I feel I may have over extended the metaphor here.
Speaker 2: So if I, you know, very summer breezy, kind of
Speaker 2: August can take me out of my you know, wonderful
Speaker 2: ruler that I've got here, I'd be very much appreciative.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I just think it's kind of just, uh wow, this
Speaker 4: is really cool. And I know in certain things, like
Speaker 4: I've seen untruth wanted people call in about simulation theory
Speaker 4: all the time and it's like, you're not.
Speaker 5: A physicist, you don't know what's going on, but whatever.
Speaker 4: I also, I think I kind of chalk it up
Speaker 4: to the same thing as like the I believe it's
Speaker 4: the Fermi paradox, where it's.
Speaker 5: Like, where's all the other intelligent life?
Speaker 4: And there's some people who are like, oh, there's aliens,
Speaker 4: and then there's like, no, there's no way there's any
Speaker 4: kind of life outside of us that's intelligent.
Speaker 5: And I'm sitting here like, I don't know, sounds cool.
Speaker 5: I want to look into it, but like it's kind
Speaker 5: of just like a mind bigling just blows my mind
Speaker 5: every time. It's way over my head.
Speaker 4: But one thing I do want to bring up kind
Speaker 4: of circle it back to the potentially religious side of it,
Speaker 4: is the fact that if there's a simulation, it brings
Speaker 4: to the forefront the idea of free will. And if
Speaker 4: there is free will, and I believe that, like you know,
Speaker 4: even amongst you know, non believer skeptics, there's.
Speaker 5: A lot of discussion about.
Speaker 4: Whether we think we have free will or not, and
Speaker 4: completely absent of religion, and there's a lot of people
Speaker 4: without religion who say, no, I don't think we have
Speaker 4: free will, and there's others that say, yeah, I think
Speaker 4: maybe we do. We're autonomous. So I thought that was
Speaker 4: really cool to think about. Well, if we are just
Speaker 4: in the SIMS four, then you know, what does that
Speaker 4: mean for our decisions? And I think it could go
Speaker 4: into brain chemistry and all this kind of stuff. So
Speaker 4: it is a definitely a rabbit hole of things. So
Speaker 4: what do you think, Tia.
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say exactly the same about
Speaker 3: free will, because it's hard to be find it. I mean,
Speaker 3: what is free will? Is it actually being able to
Speaker 3: do anything that you want, because that is not possible
Speaker 3: due to many things that are going to define if
Speaker 3: you have the capacity to do it, resources, et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera. Or is it making my own choices because
Speaker 3: we know that the brain decides before I can make
Speaker 3: my thoughts conscious. So yes, you said it's very hard
Speaker 3: to know what is actually going on, and what you
Speaker 3: mentioned about the alien things. One of my favorite comics
Speaker 3: that I've seen is Two Figures. One guy is talking
Speaker 3: to a figure. They are looking at the stars, and
Speaker 3: one says, are we alone in the universe? And the
Speaker 3: figure answers, yes, we are. Oh so there are no
Speaker 3: others out there? Yes, they are alone too, because of
Speaker 3: course distals are so huge that it's you know, we
Speaker 3: are all alone in the universe because other life it's
Speaker 3: separated by millions and billions of years. And now that
Speaker 3: we're talking about these crazy theories, may I introduce you
Speaker 3: to the theocentric theory of the universe, where the whole
Speaker 3: universe was created just for me.
Speaker 2: It's my new really universe was crazy for me, me,
Speaker 2: me and my ego.
Speaker 3: Why my theocentric universe is the theory of the universe
Speaker 3: is another thing, but we will have to describe it.
Speaker 3: But okay, okay, Phoebe, what do you want to say?
Speaker 1: Phoebe is just an NPC in my universe.
Speaker 2: I was chatting to join it to Elier and he's
Speaker 2: got some experiment that he wants to try. So so
Speaker 2: let's have this experiment of yours that we were chatting
Speaker 2: about earlier.
Speaker 1: Come on, okay, so everybody go ahead and raise your arm.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a little bit hard because of the
Speaker 1: him that we're in. But everybody raised your arm. Okay,
Speaker 1: you all lost your free will?
Speaker 3: You ast you, I willed you.
Speaker 1: I willed you to raise your arm.
Speaker 5: Wow, And so therefore that's that's deep, bro.
Speaker 2: Yeah, can I put it down yet?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Sure?
Speaker 3: Why not? Jason? What if I was not able to
Speaker 3: raise my hand? Good? That means that I don't help
Speaker 3: free will either. Well maybe you do.
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't be because maybe by me exerting my
Speaker 1: will on you, I actually wanted you to not raise
Speaker 1: your hand. So again we're going into a kind of
Speaker 1: a solid system.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: That was Yeah, there you go. Yeah, so it could
Speaker 1: have It could have been that you don't know because
Speaker 1: already I exerted my will, whether you wanted to or not,
Speaker 1: whether I wanted you to or not. How do you
Speaker 1: prove that? So again, the idea of free will is
Speaker 1: something that is so innately weird because at the end
Speaker 1: of this episode, I'm gonna still have to go to work.
Speaker 3: That's true. If life was so easy as to say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: there is a God and he gave us free will
Speaker 3: and not think about it, life would be so easy.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, No, it makes things even worse because now
Speaker 3: you're not thinking you're wrong.
Speaker 2: But where did evidence some reason go? I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: one of these strange people. Present it's an evidence, present
Speaker 2: me with some reason or frankly, get out of town.
Speaker 2: I mean, get out, clear off. But I mean I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be a bit of a poopoo a hit this
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. I just switch off. I just I
Speaker 2: just switch off. I mean, I find these things have
Speaker 2: less substance in them than my copy of the National
Speaker 2: Enquirer that I enjoy reading. But I think that we've
Speaker 2: potentially overextended this part. But I leave you with something
Speaker 2: that Jason's going to like that psychics at Caltech and
Speaker 2: the Femory National Accelerator Lab. You know what, I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure is supposed to be physicists, because I think it's
Speaker 2: the psychics that are coming up with this rubish. But yes,
Speaker 2: don't anybody had any final thing that they wanted to
Speaker 2: say before we, you know, put this one out to tenure.
Speaker 3: Yes, don't scientists have a term for this, something called
Speaker 3: mental masturvation. If I'm not mistaken for these idios,