1 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip cast for 2 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:23,800 August fifth, twenty twenty five. I'm Matthew Watkins, editor in 3 00:00:23,879 --> 00:00:26,960 chief of the Tribune, back from my sojourn on the 4 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,119 Gulf Coast. I am joined as usual by Lawn politics 5 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,799 reporter Eleanor Klebanoff. Hello, Eleanor, anything that I miss anything? 6 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:39,799 Speaker 2: I didn't miss any news. The thing has happened. We 7 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,119 had nothing to talk about this week. 8 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we really really had to scramble to 9 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,920 come up at the topic. Yes, of course, since you 10 00:00:48,079 --> 00:00:53,159 last heard Eleanor's voice, Texas Republicans released their proposed map 11 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,039 for redrawn congressional districts in the state, aiming to give 12 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,799 their party five new seats. The seats were scheduled for 13 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,480 a floor vote in the House on Monday, but before 14 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,280 that could happen, more than fifty Democrats fled the state, 15 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,840 denying the House the quorum necessary to pass the bill. This, 16 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,319 of course, has caused outrage from Republicans excitement among Democrats. 17 00:01:17,519 --> 00:01:21,359 House Speaker Dustin Burroughs signed arrest warrants for the members. 18 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,599 Governor Greg Abbott has threatened to expel them from office 19 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,200 and ordered investigations as to whether they're committing a felony bribery. 20 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,000 But for now, at least, how the work of the 21 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,200 House has ground to a halt. With fourteen days left 22 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,879 in the special session, we are joined today by one 23 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,519 of those Democrats who left the state, state Representative Gina Hinehjosa, 24 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,040 a Democrat from Austin. Welcome, Representative. Thank you for joining us. 25 00:01:48,719 --> 00:01:49,519 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 26 00:01:49,879 --> 00:01:52,319 Speaker 1: So where are you right now? Tell us tell us 27 00:01:52,359 --> 00:01:52,959 your location. 28 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:55,719 Speaker 3: I don't know if I can do that. 29 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,719 Speaker 4: I'm at this undisclosed location outside the starry I'm right, 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,000 I'm right outside of Chicago, in a suburb of Chicago. 31 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,239 Speaker 1: Okay, excellent. I just, you know, wanted to make sure 32 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,039 clear that you weren't in the newsroom with us. We 33 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,800 don't want any detests showing up at our doors. Very good, 34 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,439 but thank you for joining us. It has been a 35 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:22,439 very eventful few days week, or even more really in 36 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,240 Texas politics. I wanted to just start by sort of 37 00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:29,639 asking you, just big picture, tell us why you made 38 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:30,960 the decision to leave the state. 39 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,599 Speaker 3: It was an obvious decision for me. 40 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 4: I heard such concern, such alarm from constituents about these 41 00:02:41,319 --> 00:02:44,599 Trump maps. I will say I had originally heard about 42 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,680 this plan on Sinnee Die. 43 00:02:46,719 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 3: I had heard rumors of it. 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 4: I didn't know about the five seats, and I didn't 45 00:02:51,039 --> 00:02:56,439 know that they would try to attain the five Republican 46 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:01,680 seats by breaking up latinal district in black districts. 47 00:03:02,039 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 3: Right. 48 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 4: But when I first heard the plan, I thought, well, 49 00:03:05,319 --> 00:03:10,159 this is troubling and started to worry, start to talk 50 00:03:10,199 --> 00:03:14,039 to people and trying. I tried to prepare people for 51 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,639 this potentially coming. But once we saw the maps and 52 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,319 saw what they did to Austin, what they did just 53 00:03:22,479 --> 00:03:27,080 to Texans, it was clear to me and to enough 54 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,879 of us that the best plan of attack would be 55 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,120 to leave the state, to break korum and deny them 56 00:03:36,159 --> 00:03:38,080 the numbers they need to. 57 00:03:37,599 --> 00:03:38,199 Speaker 3: Pass the bill. 58 00:03:39,479 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk briefly about those maps, right, because last time 59 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,439 this podcast recorded, they had not been released. I understand, 60 00:03:47,319 --> 00:03:50,919 tell us just from your perspective, representative, what was it 61 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,759 that what it was about that map that you know 62 00:03:54,879 --> 00:03:58,560 a firm for y'all that yes, we need to leave 63 00:03:58,599 --> 00:04:01,800 in order to stop this. This is you know, really 64 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,360 the nuclear option. Right. That's the biggest step y'all could 65 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:07,719 take to block legislation. 66 00:04:09,599 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 4: Right, Breaking corn is an extraordinary Act that we use 67 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,920 just for the most egregious bills, and let me say 68 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:24,639 there are plenty of egregious bills in our eyes that 69 00:04:24,759 --> 00:04:27,639 come through the Texas Legislature. We haven't done this since 70 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,879 twenty twenty one. When we did it in twenty one, 71 00:04:30,759 --> 00:04:32,879 it was a big deal. It hadn't been done for 72 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,279 years before that. So this is not something that we 73 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:38,199 take lightly. 74 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: It. 75 00:04:38,759 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 4: First of all, is hard for individual members to leave 76 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,319 their lives, leave their families, leave their jobs to do this. 77 00:04:46,759 --> 00:04:51,759 So the maps, though, let me give you an example 78 00:04:51,759 --> 00:04:55,600 of Austin, where I represent. We have two congressional districts 79 00:04:55,639 --> 00:05:02,639 in Austin, and the Trump maps eliminate the Latinal Opportunity 80 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:09,399 district in Austin that currently has a Latino representing that district, 81 00:05:09,959 --> 00:05:14,399 and then takes a big chunk of downtown Austin, which 82 00:05:14,519 --> 00:05:18,680 is in the Texas House district that I represent, and 83 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,560 connects it to a Republican East Texas district that goes 84 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,000 all the way to Polk County over two hundred miles away, 85 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:33,360 gutting really the political voice in Congress of downtown Austin 86 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:39,680 and really effectively gutting the voice of the Latino community 87 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,319 and their ability to select the representative of their choosing 88 00:05:43,439 --> 00:05:47,600 in Congress. That's just Austin, right Houston. If you look 89 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:52,759 at Houston, that is where you have the largest number 90 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,560 of Latinos of any other place in Texas is in Houston. 91 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,000 They have eliminated the Latino opportunity seat there as well, 92 00:06:02,519 --> 00:06:05,279 and so if these Trump maps pass, there will no 93 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:11,800 longer be a Latino seat in Houston, which is outrageous. 94 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,439 Speaker 3: So those are just two examples. 95 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,199 Speaker 4: I heard from Deuli Johnson last night about how her 96 00:06:17,319 --> 00:06:20,000 congressional district is cut into seven districts. 97 00:06:21,199 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 3: The list goes on and on. So once people saw what. 98 00:06:24,519 --> 00:06:29,959 Speaker 4: We saw, the specific damage done to our constituents and 99 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,519 their political power, it was easy for me and for 100 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,439 the rest of us to choose this course of action. 101 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I think, like, you know, your Republican colleagues 102 00:06:40,639 --> 00:06:43,240 would say, you know, we drew these maps in twenty 103 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,800 twenty one, you know, pretty cautiously to protect our incumbents. 104 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,480 We had this blowout election in twenty twenty four. For Republicans, 105 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,720 we're going to redraw these maps. It is purely partisan. 106 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,759 It's sort of the message that we're hearing, which of course, 107 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,319 you know, the courts have said, like, as long as 108 00:06:58,319 --> 00:07:01,319 it's partisan, that's fine. What you know, we still have 109 00:07:01,319 --> 00:07:03,959 the protections of the Voting Rights Act, you can't sort 110 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:09,920 of discriminate against voters of color. And you know, but certainly, 111 00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:12,279 what we've been hearing from Republicans just particularly the last 112 00:07:12,319 --> 00:07:14,199 couple of days is, you know, we have a right 113 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,439 to draw partisan maps if we want to. I'm seeing 114 00:07:16,439 --> 00:07:17,720 a lot of people now are calling it the big 115 00:07:17,759 --> 00:07:20,959 Beautiful Map. We're getting a lot of branding around this 116 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,560 as like this is just about Republican politics. How does that? 117 00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:28,560 You know, do you think that that sort of rings 118 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,040 true to you, this idea that this is just politics, 119 00:07:31,079 --> 00:07:33,800 it's not about disadvantaging black and brown voters. 120 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 4: So I actually think this is kind of hilarious the 121 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,439 way Republicans are insisting, no, no, no, no, no, this 122 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:43,439 isn't about race. 123 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 3: This is just a. 124 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:50,079 Speaker 4: Pure partisan power grab, right, And they are so insistent 125 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,639 that that is their motivation because they said the quiet 126 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:01,639 part out loud by issuing that Department Justice letter that 127 00:08:01,839 --> 00:08:10,079 specifically said these majority minority districts should be targeted for 128 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:16,600 eliminated elimination because of race. Right, the Governor's proclamation then 129 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:21,639 cites as the sole reason for a mid decade redistricting 130 00:08:21,759 --> 00:08:28,399 session that letter, and legislator saying, oh, no, did we. 131 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:29,399 Speaker 3: Say this was about race. 132 00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:34,519 Speaker 4: No, Actually, this is a pure partisan power graph. So 133 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,440 they're trying to cover up their mistake. But it is 134 00:08:38,519 --> 00:08:41,919 on the record. It could not be more clear that 135 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,639 this is about race. And let me say this though, 136 00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:50,360 it is both things. Because the intended purpose is to 137 00:08:50,519 --> 00:08:57,000 achieve five additional Republican members of Congress, their Department of 138 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,159 Justice letter the Governor's proclamation may clear. The way they 139 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:07,399 intend to do that is by eliminating majority minority districts. 140 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so I want to ask you about you mentioned 141 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,919 that y'all did this previously in twenty twenty one. There 142 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,840 have been some things that have changed the district the court. Well, well, 143 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,960 you did both, but you yes. I'm specifically talking about 144 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,320 the quorum break that at the time was to block 145 00:09:24,519 --> 00:09:29,519 a bill imposing new voting restrictions in the state and 146 00:09:29,519 --> 00:09:33,080 everything like that. Since then, things have changed around the 147 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,799 rules around quorum breaks the House. You know, past rules 148 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,000 that would include a five hundred dollars fine, there is 149 00:09:41,159 --> 00:09:45,200 now the uh you know, as I mentioned in the introduction, 150 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,679 Governor Abbott, you know, talking about you know, possibly pursuing 151 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,480 criminal charges against members. We can get a little bit 152 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:58,960 more into that. How prepared are you and your colleagues 153 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,320 to with stan and that financial and legal pressure into 154 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,000 the long term. How long can you make this last 155 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,440 given that situation. 156 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 4: So my primary concern is defending my constituents right. They 157 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:22,200 have a fundamental right to representation, to hold our politicians 158 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,879 accountable for the hurt and abuse that they are suffering. 159 00:10:25,159 --> 00:10:27,240 And the list of that hurt and abuse goes on 160 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,519 and on. High prices at the grocery store because of 161 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:35,600 these pay to play tariffs, constituents are losing healthcare, our 162 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:40,519 neighborhood schools are losing money, are going without. That list 163 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,960 goes on and on. So that's my primary concern. Let 164 00:10:44,039 --> 00:10:47,360 me start with that. I think those five hundred dollars 165 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,120 fines are unconstitutional under the Texas Constitution. Texas is one 166 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,879 of only four states that authorizes the breaking of core 167 00:10:56,039 --> 00:10:59,840 That is a rule, that is i'm sorry, a procedure 168 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,559 under the rules that we can take to. 169 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:04,879 Speaker 3: Represent our constituents. 170 00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 4: It is the way that we protect their interests and 171 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,200 we should not be punished for using what is a 172 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,799 procedural tool in the toolbox. So I think it's unconstitutional, 173 00:11:17,799 --> 00:11:21,919 but I'll say this. I'll say that again, the primary 174 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,600 importance here is protecting our constituents. I'm willing to do 175 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,799 whatever it takes to do that. If you think about 176 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,360 all the ways that Texans Americans have sacrificed for our freedoms, 177 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:39,759 this is, in comparison, not a lot. To ask elected 178 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,440 leaders whose job it is to represent and protect the 179 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,639 interests of our constituents. 180 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,159 Speaker 2: Do you anticipate legal action against trying against those fines 181 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,399 to sort of challenge that on constitutionality. 182 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 4: Well, it's too early to say, right. They can't impose 183 00:11:56,279 --> 00:11:59,159 those fins until there's a quorum and there's a vote 184 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,679 to do so, so it's a little premature to say, 185 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,240 but I do think it is legally questionable. 186 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: So we are ninety six days from the November eighth 187 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:17,320 filing period. Hypothetically, if lawmakers were to stay for that 188 00:12:17,519 --> 00:12:20,080 entire time, that would add up to a forty eight 189 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,440 thousand dollars fine, assuming that Abbott were to just continue 190 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,320 calling special sessions, which I think is probably a pretty 191 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,080 safe assumption. So we're talking about forty eight thousand dollars 192 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,919 worth of fines. It is no secret that state lawmakers 193 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,919 are not highly paid seventy two hundred dollars per year. 194 00:12:37,039 --> 00:12:38,879 You know, of course you all have other jobs, but 195 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,360 presumably many of those jobs might be complicated how they 196 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,200 might be able to be done when you're not in 197 00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:49,360 the state. How you know? There has been reporting, including 198 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,919 from the Tribune, about you know, fundraising in order to 199 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,279 help kind of bear that financial cost. How are you 200 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,759 all going to pay for this? How you know? Are 201 00:12:57,799 --> 00:13:00,399 you raising money? Are you planning to use donor funds 202 00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:02,759 to help bear the cost of this expense? 203 00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:09,879 Speaker 3: So I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. 204 00:13:11,039 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 4: We are on day two of our core break, and 205 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:19,440 we're taking it day by day. Right. I just have 206 00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:21,879 to be honest. I am not concerned about those fines 207 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:22,399 right now. 208 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 3: That is not It does not scare me. It is 209 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,759 not a motivator for me. 210 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 4: What is a moti vader for me is to be 211 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,720 able to protect my constituents. And let me say this, 212 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,960 Let me take a moment to put in perspective and 213 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:45,679 context what is happening today. So when a thousand people 214 00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:50,399 showed up to oppose these maps, in Arlington to testify. Right, 215 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,720 hundreds and hundreds of people showed up to testify in Austin. 216 00:13:55,879 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 3: Over maps that I think have been released twenty four 217 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:00,639 hours for hours. 218 00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:04,759 Speaker 4: Maybe this has happened so fast, and you see that 219 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,200 Texans are ready for a fight and ready to stand 220 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,080 up to Donald Trump. In some ways, this fight is 221 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,799 a gift to us. It is a rallying call to Texans, 222 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,080 to Americans that we do not have to bend a 223 00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:22,240 need to Donald Trump, and we can take the fight 224 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:28,399 directly to him. And the support, the overwhelming gratitude that 225 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,840 we are hearing from constituents and from Americans all over 226 00:14:32,879 --> 00:14:37,360 this country reinforces that people are ready for this fight. 227 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,159 And so I'm not motivated by the fear of fines. 228 00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:47,240 I am extremely motivated and propelled by just the determination 229 00:14:47,679 --> 00:14:51,480 of my constituents and Texans and Americans to do what 230 00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:54,519 it takes to stand up to Trump on this this 231 00:14:54,639 --> 00:14:58,559 most fundamental of our values. It is about who we are. 232 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,519 It is our identity as Americans. Representation is why we 233 00:15:02,679 --> 00:15:05,840 exist as a country, and I'm proud to be part 234 00:15:05,879 --> 00:15:06,120 of that. 235 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: Do you feel like there's cohesiveness among the caucus on 236 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,159 that of like we're in this for the long haul 237 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,919 and that mounting dollar amount doesn't scare us. 238 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:24,679 Speaker 4: Let me say that getting independently elected leaders on the 239 00:15:24,679 --> 00:15:27,440 same page about anything is a struggle. 240 00:15:27,639 --> 00:15:27,919 Speaker 3: Right. 241 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,519 Speaker 4: Everybody is strong willed and has their own good ideas, 242 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:39,120 but we all understand the stakes, and so we work 243 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,200 through these things every day because we have the shared goal, 244 00:15:42,799 --> 00:15:47,120 and that's to protect our constituents and stand up for 245 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,120 what's right. So it is a day by day conversation. 246 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,320 It is a day by day fight, and today we 247 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:55,600 are united in that fight. 248 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: Terry Canalis, one of your colleagues who did not make 249 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,120 the trip, told our reporter Rinzo Downey yesterday that he 250 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,879 thought the outcome of this is inevitable. And I think 251 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,600 what he meant by that was inevitable that eventually these 252 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:13,039 maps would get passed. Am I hearing from you that 253 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,120 you disagree with that assessment right now? 254 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 4: I just disagree in that defeatist attitude. It is inevitable 255 00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:27,120 if we do nothing and we don't fight. Sure, yeah, absolutely, 256 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,639 that's inevitable, but that's not what we're doing. That is 257 00:16:29,679 --> 00:16:32,120 the only thing that is inevitable, that it will happen 258 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,679 if we don't fight. So what we learned in the 259 00:16:35,679 --> 00:16:39,399 twenty one Korm break was when we broke korm for 260 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,360 the day to kill the irregular session, and then we 261 00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:46,519 broke korm for the thirty days of the special session. 262 00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:48,600 We went to DC, we lobbied on the John Lewis 263 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:51,639 voting right sack that it passed. But something else happened, 264 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,320 and that's that Republicans were so shamed by the national 265 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,919 attention they were getting on their bill that they could 266 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,240 not defend that they gutted the most offensive part to 267 00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:05,480 the bill, the parts of the bill that inspired our 268 00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:08,640 corn break. We could not have anticipated that outcome when 269 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,960 we broke korum on that one day to kill that 270 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:15,079 to kill the end of the regular session or for 271 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,519 the special session. All we knew was that we had 272 00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:21,359 to fight to win that day, and we take it 273 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,319 day by day. That is the lesson from the twenty 274 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,319 one Corm break that we bring to this corn break 275 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:27,839 where the stakes are even higher. 276 00:17:28,759 --> 00:17:30,799 Speaker 2: And I do think a difference between twenty twenty one 277 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:33,640 and now is the level of national awareness of what's 278 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:34,079 going on. 279 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:34,319 Speaker 1: Right. 280 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,799 Speaker 2: This has become sort of like a national arms race 281 00:17:36,839 --> 00:17:39,000 in a way. We've got blue states saying they want 282 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,039 to redistrict now certainly do you feel does that feel 283 00:17:43,079 --> 00:17:45,319 different for you all that, like, you know, you're obviously 284 00:17:45,319 --> 00:17:47,559 getting a lot of support from National Democrats. 285 00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:50,599 Speaker 4: Yeah, so in twenty one it was just like this 286 00:17:50,759 --> 00:17:55,599 rogue thing that happened on our own. We had no 287 00:17:55,759 --> 00:17:59,039 support at the time, we just did it. And so 288 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,240 this feels very different. Right, we have the DNC leader 289 00:18:03,279 --> 00:18:09,000 here today, Ken Martin, who's supporting us and grateful for 290 00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:12,000 what we were doing. We had Jeffries come speak, I'm sorry, 291 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,559 Leader Jeffries come and speak to us last week in Austin. 292 00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:18,039 Speaker 3: So yes, it's. 293 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 4: Very different in that we have institutional support from National 294 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:28,039 Democrats and in some ways it's easier. What's harder is 295 00:18:28,079 --> 00:18:30,759 we have now a Republican president. Right when we broke 296 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:33,319 Corman twenty one, it was Biden who was president, we 297 00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:37,640 were able to go to DC. But having Donald Trump 298 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,880 as president is is different and it means that we 299 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:44,359 have to play this a little differently. 300 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: I think one of the dynamics here, you know, mentioned 301 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,240 other states, California, you know, saying if New York, possibly 302 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,880 if Texas does this, we're going to do our own 303 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,640 type of redistricting. You know, California the part and breakdown 304 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,480 right now already forty three Democrats nine Republicans. It is all, 305 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:09,960 you know, disproportionately democratic, in the same way that Texas 306 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,880 is disproportionately Republican. I think there are a lot of 307 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,599 people who view this as not an encouraging sign in 308 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,799 either direction when these types of things happen. But there's 309 00:19:20,799 --> 00:19:23,400 also I mean, I'm not naive and thinking that, like 310 00:19:23,519 --> 00:19:28,440 one party is not going to unilaterally disarm in this fight, right, 311 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:30,920 And I bring that up to sort of ask you 312 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,200 the question is, like, is there any hope of either 313 00:19:35,319 --> 00:19:39,279 side standing down here or or the two sides coming 314 00:19:39,319 --> 00:19:42,279 to an agreement of like, let's just let these maps 315 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,960 stick the way they are in the political climate that 316 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,160 we find them ourselves in. Like, is that even you're 317 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:54,359 saying that cold war, Yeah, like this is not good 318 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,119 for anyone. Let's let's not redraw any maps here. 319 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,519 Speaker 2: Nice idea. 320 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 4: Maybe I heard last night from one of our members 321 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,880 of Congress that there were two Republican members of Congress 322 00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:21,400 who had now filed bills to eliminate mid decade redistricting. 323 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,720 So they're starting to feel the heat in other parts 324 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,400 of the country because No, this is not ideal for anyone. 325 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:37,119 And in fact, if Democrats were the majority in Texas, 326 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:44,000 we would have nonpartisan, independent citizen redistricting commissions. That is 327 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,119 legislation Democrats have filed. I believe I've signed on to 328 00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:50,880 those pieces of legislation that would be ideal. That's what 329 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,119 we would have if Democrats were in power. We don't 330 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,039 exist in that world today. That world does not exist today. 331 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,359 And so what you're seeing is governor in other states, 332 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,000 in democratic governors in other states, trying to figure out, 333 00:21:04,279 --> 00:21:07,759 given this Trump powerplay in Texas, how can I protect 334 00:21:07,839 --> 00:21:12,079 my own constituents from the outcome of trying to predetermine 335 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,319 the twenty twenty six midterms. 336 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 3: Right, So it's understandable, right, is it ideal? 337 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:17,799 Speaker 2: No? 338 00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:21,079 Speaker 4: What would be ideal is if everybody played by the 339 00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:26,720 same roles and we had these nonpartisan citizen redistricting commissions. 340 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:30,039 We just don't live in that world today. But again, 341 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,319 this is a day by day deal. You're starting to 342 00:21:32,319 --> 00:21:35,839 see some movement on the Republican side because they don't 343 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,200 like this arms war, and we'll see where it ends. 344 00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:42,559 Speaker 1: Right. I'm going to pause right here to read a 345 00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:45,319 note from our sponsor which is the Texas Tribune. This week. 346 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,920 Our membership program Texas Needs Trusted Journalism, helps sustain fact 347 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:54,359 based reporting around the state about state issues by donating 348 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,920 to the Tribune newsroom. Become a member today at Texastribune 349 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,480 dot org slash donate a right Representative. I want to 350 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,319 ask you about the calculus about the other issues on 351 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,640 the table during the special session, particularly flood relief. Right, 352 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,359 you know, it is true that while Democrats are not 353 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,799 in Texas that they cannot pass a map of new 354 00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:22,160 congressional districts. It also means they cannot pass legislation in 355 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,559 response to these terrible floods that happened, you know, including 356 00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:29,440 in Travis County, but also in the Hill Country as well. 357 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,240 Did that factor into y'all's decision? How do you feel 358 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,079 about that work being grinded to a halt at the 359 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:40,039 same time this other work is as well. 360 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 4: That work hardly even kicked off When we were still 361 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,279 in Texas. We had only had two hearings that were 362 00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:50,839 scheduled by the Republican majority on flood relief. We had 363 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,400 eight hearings on Trump's maps, So it became clear to 364 00:22:54,519 --> 00:22:59,519 us that the Republican majority was not interested in prioritizing 365 00:22:59,519 --> 00:23:02,839 flood Really, even if you look at the call on 366 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,000 the House to arrest us, it's to pass the maps, 367 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,640 it's not to pass flood relief. The biggest problem we 368 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:16,759 have with flooding and extreme weather is more who's elected 369 00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:19,839 and who's in charge than what the laws are. We 370 00:23:20,079 --> 00:23:24,319 know that it was revealed that the all Abbott elected 371 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,559 River Authority had three point four million dollars in their 372 00:23:27,599 --> 00:23:31,400 reserves that they did not use for an emergency warning 373 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,240 system for floods that would have cost a million dollars. 374 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,039 They didn't use that money. We know the governor could, 375 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,200 in fact, on his own use his emergency powers to 376 00:23:42,279 --> 00:23:47,039 transfer money for flood relief victims, just like he transferred 377 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,640 two hundred and fifty million dollars from one agency to 378 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:53,920 build parts of a border wall in twenty twenty one. 379 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,680 That was not an appropriate use of that power. Today, absolutely, 380 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,839 when you have an Act of God emergency whether emergency, 381 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,559 this would be an appropriate time to use his power. 382 00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:06,799 But what he is doing here is the same thing 383 00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:11,200 that he did with the school voucher fight. He's holding 384 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,240 hostage something that everything wants, everyone wants, which is flood relief. 385 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,119 So as to pass his political maps. He's playing political games. 386 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,960 You remember he did the same thing by withholding funding 387 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,759 for schools because he didn't get his voucher scam passed. 388 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:33,200 We will not play those games. He needs to be responsible. 389 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:39,079 He needs to own his leadership position and his authority 390 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,039 to grant that relief now and stop playing these political games. 391 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 2: Speaking of the governor, you know, we have certainly heard 392 00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:50,160 some big talk from Governor Abbot in the last couple 393 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,799 of days about, you know, saying he would like to 394 00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:56,200 begin the proceedings to declare your seats vacant, talking about 395 00:24:56,319 --> 00:25:00,000 you know, calling special elections to fill those seats. Certainly, 396 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,200 as we mentioned, you know, the felony bribery investigated by 397 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,359 the you know, he's called on the Texas Rangers to 398 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,519 investigate you all for felony bribery. Just talking first about 399 00:25:08,519 --> 00:25:11,119 the vacating the seats. I mean, how credible of a 400 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,119 threat is that to you? How worried are you all? 401 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,559 Speaker 4: I'm not the least bit worried about that. I will 402 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:21,759 say it's shameful. It is disrespectful to Texans, to the 403 00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:27,599 voters to threaten to remove from office. They're duly elected representatives. 404 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,400 They chose us, elected us to represent them in the House. 405 00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:38,759 They support us with overwhelming support in this endeavor. And 406 00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:42,599 so it is really though, in keeping with what he 407 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:48,000 is doing with these redistricting maps, right, trying to silence voters, 408 00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:49,640 trying to subvert their will. 409 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: So you don't think it's a you're not worried about 410 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:55,359 losing your seat. 411 00:25:56,279 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 4: He has no legal authority to do that. He's making 412 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,119 threats that are outside the bounds of the law. 413 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: What about the bribery. 414 00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 4: Investigations, all right, it's rich that we have the most 415 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,839 corrupt governor in all of Texas history making allegations of bribery. 416 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 3: This is the governor who accepted how. 417 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 4: Many millions of dollars I can't remember, like over six 418 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,480 million dollars from an out of state billionaire to pass 419 00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:30,640 the voucher scam. This is a governor who waives monthly 420 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:37,640 since twenty twenty, the competitive bidding laws to do no 421 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:43,079 big contracts, oftentimes to his donors. It is unprecedented grift. 422 00:26:43,559 --> 00:26:47,680 And so it is rich that the governor would be 423 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,279 accusing us of bribery for raising funds during a period 424 00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:55,559 we're able to raise political funds. 425 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: So are you just to make sure I understand though, 426 00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:02,920 are you and your call colleagues raising funds to support 427 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,680 that the actions y'all have taken, Like are you well, 428 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,680 are you collect are you fund are you fundraising off 429 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,559 this quorum break? And are you using donor funds to 430 00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:17,200 help you, you know, sustain the considerable expenses of leaving 431 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,079 your home, staying in a hotel and all that stuff. 432 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 4: Well, what I'm raising funds for, I'll tell you what 433 00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:26,799 I'm doing personally. I'm raising funds to help with legal advice. 434 00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:30,880 I'm raising fund communications to help with paying my staff 435 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,400 who are supporting this work. So the funds that I'm 436 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,400 raising are to make me more effective. 437 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 3: At my job. 438 00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:44,519 Speaker 1: Where where is the money coming from for the plane, 439 00:27:44,599 --> 00:27:46,480 for the hotel room, all those things? 440 00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 4: So I'm not making those arrangements that is, those are 441 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,160 being made by the caucus and I don't have that. 442 00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:59,680 I legitimately don't have that information. I will say that 443 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,640 I've flew my own staff here with campaign funds, and 444 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:04,599 so that's how I. 445 00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 3: Paid for my staff. 446 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: Can you tell us just a little bit about just 447 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,079 like what life is like for you right now, Like 448 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,599 how are you passing your time? What are you all 449 00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:16,400 hanging out together. I mean, what's the scene up there. 450 00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:22,839 Speaker 4: It's very busy. We A lot of what we're doing 451 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,720 is just communicating, communicating. This has happened so fast, and 452 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,640 it's at a time when families are vacationing, they're coming 453 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,599 back to this drama. So we're having to constantly communicate 454 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,279 so that people understand what is happening and why we 455 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,319 took this action. So that's a large part of it. 456 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,559 We're getting legal briefings as well. We are using this 457 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:53,240 time to exchange ideas about efforts policy efforts as well. 458 00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:57,119 So but there just hasn't I mean, we start first 459 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,000 thing in the morning. I woke up for an interview yesterday. 460 00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:03,680 I had a four fifty in the morning interview yesterday, 461 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,599 and we didn't get home till past ten o'clock, right, 462 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,000 So that's an idea of what our days have been like. 463 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,079 Speaker 2: Do you worry, I mean, after the twenty twenty one 464 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:18,079 quorum break, now we've got these stricter rules around fines 465 00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:23,640 and things like that. Obviously I was here yesterday in Austin. 466 00:29:24,319 --> 00:29:27,279 Your Republican colleagues are not thrilled with you all for leaving. 467 00:29:27,839 --> 00:29:32,920 Do you anticipate sort of a heightening of those sort 468 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,359 of penalties, or you know, eventually when we have a quorum, 469 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,039 legislation to make it harder to quarm break in the future. 470 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 4: I don't know what they will do, but let me 471 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,680 say that their outrage is feigned. 472 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:46,599 Speaker 3: It's fake. 473 00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 4: They knew that doing mid decade redistricting would provoke pretty extreme. 474 00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 3: Opposition from us. 475 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,599 Speaker 4: The last time it was done two thousand and three, 476 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,960 there was also a quorum, right, So to for them 477 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,319 to pretend like this is something they did not anticipate, 478 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:11,240 did not expect, and is out of the ordinary for 479 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,680 what they are doing is not real. 480 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: It's interesting to me how far we've gone in a year, right, 481 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,480 I mean, there was a lot of sort of you know, 482 00:30:21,519 --> 00:30:23,559 in the lead up to this legislative session that sort 483 00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:28,279 of like defending some of the like bipartisan nature of 484 00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:30,759 the House. We all work together, we work toward Texas, 485 00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:32,720 and now we're in a place where we're talking about, 486 00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:36,720 you know, essentially throwing out almost all of the Democrats, 487 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,039 you know, from their elected seats. Do you see a 488 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,400 long term effect on the ability of the two parties 489 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,119 to work together. Do you see a change in Democrats 490 00:30:46,119 --> 00:30:49,000 support for the current House Speaker who was elected with 491 00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:50,720 the support of many Democrats. 492 00:30:51,559 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 4: I did not vote for Speaker Burrows. He is a 493 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,279 maga Republican and I was not going to be a 494 00:30:58,279 --> 00:31:01,960 part of that. Stood from the beginning what his agenda 495 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:10,119 was and still live. So just speaking for myself, I'm 496 00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:13,720 not surprised by anything he has done. I fully anticipated it, 497 00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:18,839 and there are opportunities for Democrats and Republicans to work together, 498 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,799 but that's when we have shared policy interests. You saw 499 00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:27,079 that vouchers was one of those bipartisan efforts where we 500 00:31:27,119 --> 00:31:30,960 came together to oppose it time and time again until 501 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,559 Donald Trump went in and told Republican members of the 502 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,960 Legislature and of the House that he needed them to 503 00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:42,519 vote for the voucher and they did as told because 504 00:31:42,519 --> 00:31:45,039 they do not feel free to stand up to him. 505 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 3: So there is a little bit of. 506 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 4: Space for some bipartisan initiatives on big, overarching policy issues. 507 00:31:55,599 --> 00:31:58,759 It's really hard to come by these days, especially when 508 00:31:58,839 --> 00:32:02,279 they are so obedient to President Trump. 509 00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: How are you just feeling about, you know, our democracy, 510 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,200 our state of government these days? I mean, what's your 511 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,359 what's your how are you feeling? 512 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:17,519 Speaker 3: Well? 513 00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:21,759 Speaker 4: That's why I'm doing this. I have a son who 514 00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:24,319 is thirteen years old. We went to Philadelphia for a 515 00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:30,519 summer vacation this summer, and I needed him to understand 516 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:37,119 what good ideals, honest, right ideals our country was founded on. 517 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,319 Because politics has become so nasty, so ugly, so bitter, 518 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,160 and we're losing sight of who we are as Americans. 519 00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:50,240 I do this because I believe we have to fight 520 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,599 to maintain what is good about our country and about 521 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:02,160 public service. So yeah, it's a scary time. We're at 522 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,640 a crossroads in this country and we have to fight 523 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,119 with everything we've got to hold on to what matters 524 00:33:11,079 --> 00:33:11,759 in America. 525 00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:16,599 Speaker 3: So that's the inspiration for why I do what I do. 526 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,079 Speaker 1: All right, Representative, Well, we appreciate you taking some time 527 00:33:20,119 --> 00:33:22,920 to talk to us during what is clearly a busy time. 528 00:33:23,279 --> 00:33:25,480 Thank you for that. Thank you, Eleanor, and thank you 529 00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:29,279 to our producers, Rob and Chris. That's all for this week. 530 00:33:29,319 --> 00:33:30,640 We will talk to y'all next week. 531 00:33:31,319 --> 00:33:45,279 Speaker 4: Thank you.