Speaker 1: So a boy, David Shabbaz, what's up, man?
Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on? Jeral good to be on here
Speaker 2: with you, d.
Speaker 1: See the author of Black Gold. What's up? What's up
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 2: Well, that was actually just a that was actually just
Speaker 2: one of the headlines. The actual title of the book
Speaker 2: is Pro Wrestling's Black World Champions write.
Speaker 1: Down Pro Wrestling Black World Champions, Got You, Got You?
Speaker 2: Got You?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I saw, I'm saying it's such a people
Speaker 1: like to you know, get into a gain to them,
Speaker 1: like this specific topic about black So yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: it's very cool. I saw your press release for the book,
Speaker 1: so yeah, not knowing that right.
Speaker 2: This is the third edition. Yes, yes, the original came
Speaker 2: out in two thousand and nine and it was a
Speaker 2: small publication. As you can probably imagine, there were very
Speaker 2: few Black World Champions at that time, and so it's
Speaker 2: it's it's it's grown over the years, which is good
Speaker 2: for our people.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, like how many? How many? Like on
Speaker 1: top of your head, do you think Black World Champions
Speaker 1: were back in two and nine? You had because it's
Speaker 1: before this, before Mark Henry watch, you know, I guess
Speaker 1: it become the ECW Champion you count that one eat
Speaker 1: W championship.
Speaker 2: That was kind of a like an asterisk because it
Speaker 2: wasn't the true e c W.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's it's debatable. It's de beatiful.
Speaker 2: At that time, it wasn't. It wasn't. Well, I understand
Speaker 2: what you're saying, and that's why it was kind of
Speaker 2: included because but it wasn't the independent e c W
Speaker 2: federation at that time. It was owned by w w E.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, so would it count if let's
Speaker 1: let's say it's that e c W. Let's say it
Speaker 1: was the w c W championship that Mark Honey one, right, well,
Speaker 1: it's still count or.
Speaker 2: You're talking about under w W E. Yah, under Night War.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if Mark any won that championships.
Speaker 2: It still would have it still would have carried what
Speaker 2: we considered an asterisk. I mean, but yes, he was
Speaker 2: listed in that in that publication.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, cool, cool, cool. So so we'll
Speaker 1: get more to that. So just real quick, tell youbody
Speaker 1: about yourself or who you are.
Speaker 2: Uh, David Shabaz, I'm a uh scholar, I'm a college professor.
Speaker 2: I'm a scholar of sports and sports communication. So I'm
Speaker 2: not you know, some people will say I'm a historian.
Speaker 2: I'm not really a historian. I'm a scholar. They're there
Speaker 2: are people out there who know much more, uh, statistics
Speaker 2: and all about, you know, professional wrestling than I do.
Speaker 2: I'm not particularly a fan in the true sense of
Speaker 2: the word, because fan is short for fanatic. Yes, not
Speaker 2: a fanatic. I don't dress up in costumes. I don't
Speaker 2: watch every episode of professional wrestling. I've been watching professional
Speaker 2: wrestling throughout my life, but I don't watch the Independence.
Speaker 2: I don't watch every episode of NXT. I don't watch that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what that's the difference with me. That's why I say, well,
Speaker 2: I'm not a fan per se, because I don't watch
Speaker 2: just to watch. If it doesn't entertain me, if it
Speaker 2: doesn't have somebody that I like, I'm gonna flip the
Speaker 2: channel and watch something else.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, that's crazy. I was gonna actally later on,
Speaker 1: like you watch the local in the stuff man. I
Speaker 1: got well real quick. I got a text for my
Speaker 1: boy Russ saw to him the band Space podcast. He
Speaker 1: told me something about what you told me about there's
Speaker 1: a pc W show in Canada South Carolina, and then
Speaker 1: he has his eye on his eyes, so Sley very
Speaker 1: cooped potential. But yeah, okay, so I guess we won't
Speaker 1: get too independent stuff. Cool. What's it called? Real quick?
Speaker 1: But you said you said you're two things. You said
Speaker 1: that you're professor at the college called just that.
Speaker 2: Uh well, it's a it's a midwestern university. I'd rather
Speaker 2: not say the name of the school.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay? And and uh you're a live from Kentucky, right, yes,
Speaker 1: I bet, I just want to get that clear right now,
Speaker 1: all right, huh.
Speaker 2: Clues, but I just don't want to say the name
Speaker 2: of the university, right.
Speaker 1: Got you? Got you? I respect that's that, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: But uh so, so you said that you're not a
Speaker 1: historic You're not You're not h was not a history,
Speaker 1: You're a Scott yes, mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Well this, this particular publication goes back to my brother.
Speaker 2: My brother Julian was the one who was this publication
Speaker 2: and and those you made familiar with him. He was
Speaker 2: basically the scholar historian of black professional wrestlers. He wrote
Speaker 2: Black Stars of Professional Wrestling back in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: This was before there was all of these podcasts and
Speaker 2: all of this focusing on black professional wrestlers. He was
Speaker 2: the one that was doing that, and this was his
Speaker 2: publication originally, and when he passed in twenty twenty, I
Speaker 2: updated his book back in twenty twenty two, which was
Speaker 2: the second edition, and the industry of course has grown
Speaker 2: and has recognized the talents and the marketability, I should say,
Speaker 2: of more black wrestlers. And so this one is the
Speaker 2: third edition and it's really more a mind which has
Speaker 2: uh some scholarship in it as well.
Speaker 1: Got you, got you?
Speaker 2: Got you?
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, what got you into wrestling in the first place?
Speaker 1: Like how not not a fan, but what got you
Speaker 1: interrestling in the first place? And not a fanatic? But
Speaker 1: like what got you interrestling?
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, I've watched what professional wrestling my
Speaker 2: entire life. My family grew up watching professional wrestling, So
Speaker 2: that's something that's always been a part of me.
Speaker 1: So pretty much by by relation, right by by your family.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of how I got thro rustling too,
Speaker 1: Like my sisters like low key force it on me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well I got two older sisters, so yeah,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, that's how I got into rustling. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: Uh so let's just to start with your brother, he
Speaker 1: started this and he took up from there. So why
Speaker 1: is it so important the catalog? Not only well, I'll
Speaker 1: say you, why is it so important to the catalogue,
Speaker 1: especially black world champions.
Speaker 2: Well, because there's so few. And the whole thing about
Speaker 2: being a champion itself, and a black champion, it goes
Speaker 2: back to it's a reflection of all of the struggles
Speaker 2: that black people have had to go through, especially we
Speaker 2: talked about African Americans in this particular, in this society,
Speaker 2: we have always had the struggle and always had to
Speaker 2: fight harder and always had to prove ourselves. Because professional wrestling,
Speaker 2: which is different from amateur or Olympic wrestling. If you're
Speaker 2: pure wrestling, will it's not just about your or talent
Speaker 2: because it's not competition based. People are looking at other
Speaker 2: aspects like your character and your presentation and your marketability.
Speaker 2: Can you put butts in the seats? You know, there's
Speaker 2: so many different factors that they look at before they
Speaker 2: put the belt on you, because there was so many
Speaker 2: people before that they considered but never got the actual belt.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. And what yeah, what it means to be
Speaker 1: world champion?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: It means like especially because you know, like no, like
Speaker 1: the modern wrestling is no scripted, right, what it means
Speaker 1: to be the world champion? It means that that there
Speaker 1: that that that the company as a whole. They want
Speaker 1: you to be the face of it. They want you
Speaker 1: they want to market the company after you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, That's what it is. So yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Are you are the face of the company. The friends. Yes,
Speaker 2: they they are very selective about anybody who they put own,
Speaker 2: but definitely when it comes to being uh you know,
Speaker 2: somebody black, it's it's all. It is very tough.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm okay, okay, so real quick right before a
Speaker 1: gain more into that. Uh so, so what other like
Speaker 1: books of projects have worked for written? Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, this is the fourth. I wrote Public Enemy number
Speaker 2: one back in which was actually it started off as
Speaker 2: my master's thesis, which was looking at public Enemy at
Speaker 2: the time. This was like in the early nineteen nineties.
Speaker 2: And uh, Dolomite the Story of Rudy Ray Moore. My
Speaker 2: brother and I wrote that publication back around nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 2: and that was the very first book and probably the
Speaker 2: only book that has been written on Rudy Ray Moore.
Speaker 2: So at the time. We got a lot of publicity
Speaker 2: from that one in twenty nineteen. It was a very
Speaker 2: slow start in the beginning because everybody, everybody knew Dolomite,
Speaker 2: and they knew the especially him from the hip hop community.
Speaker 2: Everybody in rap was sampling him, so everybody knew about him,
Speaker 2: and people culturally in the black culture know about him,
Speaker 2: but it was kind of like taboo to talk about
Speaker 2: him because he had not transitioned at that time, like
Speaker 2: Red Fox, Richard Pryor, and even Eddie Murphy himself, so
Speaker 2: you know, him still being he had not made these
Speaker 2: g rated television shows and other things where people saw
Speaker 2: him in a different light. So it came, you know,
Speaker 2: nobody really wanted to touch it and deal with it
Speaker 2: until Eddie put out the twenty nineteen mainstream movie on Netflix. Okay,
Speaker 2: now he's got this legitimacy and everybody's talking about it now,
Speaker 2: and we being the only ones who had wrote the
Speaker 2: book on him. CNN USA Today, other major media outlets
Speaker 2: had contacted us for interviews because they wanted to know
Speaker 2: if the story was real, and yes it was, that
Speaker 2: was a true biography.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, real quick, right, what can we find we
Speaker 1: can we find your own writing.
Speaker 2: Everything is on my website, uh, davids dot com. Uh,
Speaker 2: certainly through webs Amazon and all of those places.
Speaker 1: All right, So just type of your name right on Amazon,
Speaker 1: So David L. Shabbans's D A V I D of
Speaker 1: course L B A Z Z type of Amazon, I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Or just go to w W David L. Shabaz dot com.
Speaker 2: Right, you know, Uh, let me correct you though, brother,
Speaker 2: it's pronounced your bars. But because it's recorded, when people
Speaker 2: keep hearing it wrong, I have to correct it.
Speaker 1: No harm, got you got well it might defense right,
Speaker 1: jazz is still Prounce jazz, but sat.
Speaker 2: It's not an American. So that's what is that?
Speaker 1: Was that your Was that your birth name? What do
Speaker 1: you take?
Speaker 2: What like a like a that's that's my name?
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, like is it like tything muslim thing? Or
Speaker 1: just got you got you? Got you? Got you?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: All right, Salama like them my brother got you got
Speaker 1: you okay? Uh but everybody, well quick write this quick
Speaker 1: plug search my boy David on Amazon. Also going to
Speaker 1: David dot com. Besides your books, Wells Creed, besides your writing,
Speaker 1: Wells Creek fin on the website.
Speaker 2: Well, that website is just about books. So that's that's it.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, uh, But but but you have anything, you
Speaker 1: have any other parties coming up in their future?
Speaker 2: Well, right now my hands are full with this one.
Speaker 2: And like I said, I'm a I'm a full time
Speaker 2: college professor, so I don't really have you know, a
Speaker 2: lot of time. I'm just on the circuit right now
Speaker 2: with this book.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so hold we just find it real quick,
Speaker 1: forgive me. Everybody has a lot of material to them through.
Speaker 1: But you were talking about, especially back in the day,
Speaker 1: Well we were talking about, especially back in the day,
Speaker 1: what it would it meant to be like you know
Speaker 1: what like a black world champion or a champion in general, right,
Speaker 1: but especially a black world champion. That means like the
Speaker 1: companies will make you, will make you the face of
Speaker 1: their company and so like, especially for you know, African Americans, right,
Speaker 1: Like you know, it's very challenging to even get that,
Speaker 1: to get that far right. So, like I'm trying to
Speaker 1: find the email you sent the press release because you
Speaker 1: do a credit like you know, people like I don't
Speaker 1: want to I don't want to misquote you. Find the
Speaker 1: actual information that you, uh that I've read. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you right here, right here, yeah you I'm trying to
Speaker 1: find oh yeah yeah, because you right here your credit
Speaker 1: people like Buddy Rogers, the Rock and Roll Express who
Speaker 1: supported the rights of black wrestlers. So I guess I
Speaker 1: guess what I'm trying to get to is like, so
Speaker 1: like like who you like, who you are? Credit break,
Speaker 1: no helping you know, the rise and successful African Americans
Speaker 1: come up in wrestling.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's and those are through different periods.
Speaker 2: Nature Boy, Buddy Rogers, he had several matches with Sailor R. Thomas,
Speaker 2: one of the Four Runners. He held a world title
Speaker 2: in the World Wrestling Alliance and the w w A,
Speaker 2: which had broken away from the n w A. At
Speaker 2: the time, the n w A was the you know,
Speaker 2: the big major corporation, and they had broken away and
Speaker 2: had their own what they call the world title, but
Speaker 2: it wasn't really truly a world title.
Speaker 3: But Nature Boy, Buddy, why why not white not? Because
Speaker 3: when you talk world, you're talking about you. You're traveling
Speaker 3: and defending the title throughout the world, not just the
Speaker 3: United States.
Speaker 1: Got okay, I mean fair point, but okay, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you were saying, though.
Speaker 2: Buddy Rogers had matches with Sailor or Thomas, several matches.
Speaker 2: At the time, white wrestlers were, especially in the South,
Speaker 2: were banned from wrestling against blacks. So that's why you
Speaker 2: credit somebody like Buddy Rogers because he wasn't afraid to
Speaker 2: go into the ring. Uh, he was taking the risk himself.
Speaker 2: But it was making big money.
Speaker 1: If it was if he was banned, how was he
Speaker 1: able to wrestle in anyways? It was a banned.
Speaker 2: They didn't wrestle in the South, Okay, Okay, Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that's the Deep South where only black wrestlers could could
Speaker 2: wrestle against each other. But other about the country, like Wood,
Speaker 2: he strolled one of the very first people wrestling. They
Speaker 2: were out in California and other places, just not the
Speaker 2: Deep South.
Speaker 1: Got you, got you, got you okay, okay. And this
Speaker 1: would have been like the like mid like ur mid nineties, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking nineteen forties, nineteen fifties.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so wild so even I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 1: know we have so brights still back in the sixties seventies,
Speaker 1: but to think that, you know, there's still like element
Speaker 1: of racism even like in the nineteen hundreds in the
Speaker 1: wrestling industry is still kind of that's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, that's what makes that's what makes the
Speaker 2: publication so significant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, who else you have here? Uh? You
Speaker 1: have here the rock and Roll Express? How did they
Speaker 1: support the rising and stuff like that? For black wrestlers?
Speaker 2: The Rock and Roll Express were really significant in helping
Speaker 2: the gangsters. Have you heard of the Gangster? I have, Yes,
Speaker 2: I have in Smoky Mountain Wrestling. That's where they were
Speaker 2: really significant and helping them out.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. The only reason why because I'm a huge
Speaker 1: fansion cornet and so yes, so yeah, shoutut to hem
Speaker 1: real quick. Okay, but yeah, but going going about that
Speaker 1: a little bit more, how did so so? Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you're saying the Rock and Roll Express worked a lot
Speaker 1: with the with the gangsters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they helped really get over And I mean if
Speaker 2: people you know, all of that is detailed in the book,
Speaker 2: how they really helped Nu Jack and Mustafa or get
Speaker 2: over and.
Speaker 1: Learn rest in peace. New Jackie died like the last
Speaker 1: year or two ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have heard of recently the Nation of Domination
Speaker 2: that's an offshoot of the Gangsters.
Speaker 1: Oh really, mm hmmm, I did not see it that way.
Speaker 2: Nothing. That's that's they copied everybody. The people copied other groups.
Speaker 2: And Delo Brown was once a member of the Gangsters.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, I mean you know more than me.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm from a different generation.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well that's fine. That's that. That's that's the
Speaker 2: purpose of the book. All of that is detailed in that.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate see your school and me I appreciate this,
Speaker 1: like like, don't teach me some s t.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we tease each other, but.
Speaker 1: Real quick, give us a give us, give us like
Speaker 1: a like a preview of the book, you know, like
Speaker 1: what we expect, you know what mission. It's different to
Speaker 1: them to learn stuff like that. Look like like a
Speaker 1: little snap pep of the book.
Speaker 2: Well you've got you've got several of the black wrestlers
Speaker 2: who won the title. And there have been a lot
Speaker 2: these days, and this is the singles titles. There are
Speaker 2: a lot more black females who have the title. And
Speaker 2: one thing that's really different about this particular addition, because
Speaker 2: they are more females in there as well. The black
Speaker 2: tag teams are also yes, also in this particular edition
Speaker 2: going back to the Soul Patrol, which is Tony Atlas
Speaker 2: and Rocky Johnson the Rocks Father.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so what could before I get into listen
Speaker 1: you a question another question myself, real quick pop quiz.
Speaker 1: Do you know how many Black World Champions there are
Speaker 1: in history?
Speaker 2: How many Black World Champions there are in history?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well that's that's that's in the book.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So I might read the book to find out.
Speaker 2: We're Yeah, I can't give away everything, brother.
Speaker 1: You got the ol G. You got it all right?
Speaker 1: Bet so so so okay, bet bet bet okay, bet so.
Speaker 1: I guess that's a nice secuy to listen to a
Speaker 1: listener of questions. So for those who are from the
Speaker 1: show right now, I have a hotline nine one seven
Speaker 1: two eight three ninety five six. You can text little
Speaker 1: voicemail or calling live to give your comments or questions.
Speaker 1: I have quite a few right here. I even have
Speaker 1: some even now as recording. People still texting me stuff
Speaker 1: like that. So they want to ask you this. One
Speaker 1: person asks, do you follow the current wrestling product? If
Speaker 1: so were promotions?
Speaker 2: Well, I watch a E W and w W E.
Speaker 1: Okay and I assume that's pretty much it, right, No
Speaker 1: New Japan, no chiple A. That's just those two writers.
Speaker 2: Well only the ones that are that are showcased on
Speaker 2: those particular shows, the ones that they have partnerships because
Speaker 2: New Japan has partnership with A.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you want to watch it by extension
Speaker 1: if it's like you know, okay, okay, oh it's crazy.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I keep it getting he's holding speaking of
Speaker 1: black champions, what's the name of the NT champion that?
Speaker 1: It was the name again? I forgot, I lost, I
Speaker 1: want oh no, no, I was saying, I forgot. It's
Speaker 1: actually nxt so on tonight heat Wave. I think it's
Speaker 1: tonight going on right now. Iron enough, he's a black champ.
Speaker 1: He's a black champion. I forgot. His name is African
Speaker 1: guy with his name over fed me? Yes, yes, so
Speaker 1: south of them watching that, I'm done with you go
Speaker 1: watch that check real quick. Also had let's have the
Speaker 1: ABU show on today, which I didn't see either, but
Speaker 1: I get a chance of looking to that look kind
Speaker 1: of good. Okay, okay, uh, this person acts, hold on this,
Speaker 1: this person acts What about M M A or other
Speaker 1: or other combat sports?
Speaker 2: Uh do you like? I guess yeah, uh not really
Speaker 2: really not really. Again, I'm a I'm an old school guy,
Speaker 2: and things really have to I have to like the
Speaker 2: person that has to really be attractive to me. I
Speaker 2: hadn't watched it since Ken Shamrock and Dan to b
Speaker 2: Severn and those guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no offense, guys, long long time.
Speaker 2: But I'm saying, and if you and if you don't
Speaker 2: have the charisma that those guys had, I'm not watching
Speaker 2: dang man. I'm just not a fan. Fans watch everything
Speaker 2: and everybody that's not me.
Speaker 1: I hear you, I hear you, I hear you. This
Speaker 1: One person asks, w W E or a.
Speaker 4: W uh w w E has a better overall product,
Speaker 4: but ae W is is gaining some ground.
Speaker 2: I like some of the things that.
Speaker 1: Ae W does, but a e W still.
Speaker 2: Still is kind of in the minor leagues in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm okay, okay, okay, bring good question. This person asks,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about the current Rustling product?
Speaker 2: Well, it's uh, it has some bright spots. I mean
Speaker 2: I certainly, I certainly follow it, I certainly keep up
Speaker 2: with it. I think a e W is bringing a
Speaker 2: lot of competition, and that's what w w E really needed.
Speaker 2: They needed that competition. I just want I want ae
Speaker 2: W to raise their profile a little bit or they
Speaker 2: seem to be kind of taking on the slot that
Speaker 2: w c W had to a certain extent, and I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot more character to them that they
Speaker 2: can uh bring out without necessarily copying the w w
Speaker 2: E per se. But I do kind of think you
Speaker 2: you need to follow what the big juggernaut is doing.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, I'll get I'll ask more questions from the
Speaker 1: audience later on. But I've been thinking about something you
Speaker 1: said earlier, which has to be thinking. So I'm trying
Speaker 1: to see how to phrase this. So I guess so
Speaker 1: you said earlier. You said earlier, Right, it has to
Speaker 1: be defended across the world to be considered a world champion,
Speaker 1: a world championship.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I was to mention like Sasha Bangs, but I lost
Speaker 1: track of how many she has right now, something will
Speaker 1: like mentioned her, But I'll give I'll give you an example.
Speaker 1: This example represents pretty much like my entire point that
Speaker 1: I'm trying to act the NXT Championship, Right, That's just
Speaker 1: example of my overall point. Do you consider that World championship. No,
Speaker 1: because it's not dependent across the world.
Speaker 2: Right. No, n WWE does not consider that a World championship.
Speaker 2: N NEXT is still that developmental territory. It just happens
Speaker 2: to be televised, but that's the developmental territory.
Speaker 1: But okay, but see now it's televised, right, so it
Speaker 1: has a world ride reach, so it doesn't count. No, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, Okay, w.
Speaker 2: W E does not consider that world titled.
Speaker 1: I mean w w E like they consider stuff. They say,
Speaker 1: what is it, what isn't, based on what's convenient at
Speaker 1: that time. So you know, yeah, but okay.
Speaker 2: That's a good point by that.
Speaker 1: So so so some so sometimes the NXT Championship counts, right,
Speaker 1: Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes sometimes it's developmental, sometimes it's.
Speaker 2: Third brand, you know, when does it count?
Speaker 1: Well? So okay, so you know how, I'll give you example, right,
Speaker 1: uh uh Well, recently, right, Charlotte Flair was and Lex
Speaker 1: were listening, were listening their accomplishments, right, and she brought
Speaker 1: up that she's a certain how many time champions and
Speaker 1: she counted the nc NT championships.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, right, you have Sammy's a
Speaker 1: former NXT champion, right and up until up until, like
Speaker 1: Russelman at thirty which one was it thirty thirty nine,
Speaker 1: he never won a championship on the main roster. And
Speaker 1: they've been saying that he's been champion, but I saw
Speaker 1: much champion in twenty fourteen, so he's sold. I'm saying
Speaker 1: county counts.
Speaker 2: I think I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Counts.
Speaker 2: It does count when it comes to the titles that
Speaker 2: you have when you talk about being a triple crown
Speaker 2: champion or a Grand Slam champion, but not a though
Speaker 2: it's not a world title. Because when you talk about
Speaker 2: who's a triple crown, if they won the Intercontinental Championship,
Speaker 2: a Tag Team Championship, and the world title, then that's
Speaker 2: a triple crown. And the NXT was one of those,
Speaker 2: then that can be a Grand Slam because they won
Speaker 2: four and they'll count the NNT as a championship, but
Speaker 2: it's not a world champion.
Speaker 1: But they've been to other countries. They've been next they
Speaker 1: they've been like, they've been to Canada, they've been to Japan,
Speaker 1: they've been there. No, we still know they've been to Austria,
Speaker 1: they've been, they've been around the world.
Speaker 2: I got what you're saying, but it's not a world title.
Speaker 2: In a championship, but it's not a world title.
Speaker 1: Okay, I know, I know you don't really follow in these, right,
Speaker 1: but you know I do, especially right here in New
Speaker 1: York City, Right, you have One Division Pro, you have
Speaker 1: LPW and all kinds of places, and real quick shout
Speaker 1: to Jared Diaz. He's the current one Division Pro champion.
Speaker 1: And myself right and the people on One Division Pro,
Speaker 1: we we not only try to market him as a
Speaker 1: world champion, but we demonstrate that by having him go
Speaker 1: to Mexico and go to Europe and all the world.
Speaker 1: And so would you count and so this is the
Speaker 1: true think we because I work I keep seeing we
Speaker 1: because I worked with them for a little bit. So
Speaker 1: we would send we would send Jaredy not only over
Speaker 1: the country, but we sent to we sent them to Europe,
Speaker 1: and we sent them to Japan, and we send them
Speaker 1: to them wherever else around the world. Right, would you
Speaker 1: count that as a world champion because we're we're sending
Speaker 1: him all the world to defend it. Would you count championship?
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's not up to me, it's what the
Speaker 2: promotion considers a world title.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, that's that's not up to Okay, well all right, right,
Speaker 1: well I consider the One Division Pro Championship World Championship.
Speaker 1: I also consider the lp W Championship world championship because
Speaker 1: only King, the former champion, was depending in Japan an overplaced,
Speaker 1: so shouting him for that, Okay, okay. So it's like
Speaker 1: so based on we're just saying, right, it's not only
Speaker 1: like where they defend it or where they will feature it,
Speaker 1: but also if the company treats it like a world championship, I.
Speaker 2: Don't, right, and your point, I just you what you're saying,
Speaker 2: but I don't.
Speaker 1: No, I'm asking I'm asking you like the world I'm
Speaker 1: asking you so so we can agree on So according
Speaker 1: to you what you're saying, right, it depends on the
Speaker 1: cow the champion, and I'm not the promotion. How treats it?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: How do they treat it? That's that's what you're saying.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Would I be wrong? When I be like wrong? Is
Speaker 1: saying that? Okay? It's uh, let's say the intercon champion, right,
Speaker 1: the inter icy champion, right? Well, I thought that's the
Speaker 1: bad example. That's bad example, so accord to the criteria
Speaker 1: is that the company has to technowledge it as the
Speaker 1: world championship. Mm hmm okay, and they also have and
Speaker 1: also they have to defend it across the world. That's
Speaker 1: what you're saying too, right, Yes, So those are the
Speaker 1: two criterias, okay for to be that you consider for
Speaker 1: the world chap to be a world championship.
Speaker 2: Got you?
Speaker 1: Okay? All right, So I guess okay, so cool, cool cool.
Speaker 1: I guess that's just trying to clear up. Let give
Speaker 1: us some list questions. I got some from my boy
Speaker 1: Chris Flemming shot at him, regularly call him. He asks
Speaker 1: here at the hotline, what or how has the wrestling
Speaker 1: business changed from the old to the new?
Speaker 2: Cool? You guys have some have some nice broad questions there,
Speaker 2: because that's that's wide open. It's it's. I wish it
Speaker 2: was a little more specific there, but I mean it's
Speaker 2: it's it's changed. And uh, I mean how far back
Speaker 2: in the day from the territories. Certainly television changed wrestling itself.
Speaker 2: When you look at the popularity of the sport, it's it's,
Speaker 2: it's it's got a major following now, I mean we're
Speaker 2: talking we're talking billions of dollars. W W is like
Speaker 2: eight billion dollars in a w is like like two
Speaker 2: billions something like that. I mean, so it's uh, it's
Speaker 2: it's huge these days.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, I guess this last question I could ask
Speaker 1: and by ways Closten there he acts or he or
Speaker 1: she don't know who this is, but this person acts.
Speaker 1: What the differences or what transitions do you foresee with
Speaker 1: today's talent?
Speaker 2: What ask that again? What transitions do I see with
Speaker 2: today's talent?
Speaker 1: What differences or what transitions do you foresee? Oh, with
Speaker 1: today's talent.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's that's kind of that's kind of predictive. It
Speaker 2: will put me into more of a wizard's kind of position.
Speaker 2: I mean I don't I can't really foresee where the
Speaker 2: talent is going. I like educated, guess old school talent.
Speaker 2: I would like for them to be. I would like
Speaker 2: for the new people to be more like the old
Speaker 2: school talent. And by that that's what I mean by
Speaker 2: I don't just watch the show just to watch it.
Speaker 2: People could back in the day, they could cut promos
Speaker 2: and you enjoyed it, not even wrestling in the ring.
Speaker 2: They knew how to build a feud with another person
Speaker 2: promoted in the ring against each other. And that's what
Speaker 2: I'm seeing. I want people to understand the Rock was
Speaker 2: an old school artist. He knew that gift of the gap.
Speaker 2: He knew how to talk and how to build a
Speaker 2: feud before he got into the fight with the person.
Speaker 2: That's what I want to see. I can't say I
Speaker 2: foresee that happening. I would love for that to happen.
Speaker 2: I would love for those the new talent to study
Speaker 2: the older talent and be able to draw people in
Speaker 2: just by what you're saying. That is something that Dusty
Speaker 2: Rhodes was good about. That's something that Air was good about.
Speaker 2: You know, they could talk and that's what made the difference.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, I think that's everything we got
Speaker 1: for now. Real quick, plugs your website w w w
Speaker 1: W dot, w w w dot David dot com. Also
Speaker 1: just search also just search David la on Uh what's
Speaker 1: it called? Uh? What was it? Amazon?
Speaker 2: Yeah? The bookstores?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, well, real quick, like with all the bookstores,
Speaker 1: we found that like virtually or like or like in real.
Speaker 2: Life worldwide, every bookstore.
Speaker 1: Books so borns and Nobles, uh borders what every book
Speaker 1: still everybody? Okay? And online and in real life? Right yes, yes, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: bet but uh social media.
Speaker 2: All of that is still run through my website but
Speaker 2: essentially at David Elschabas.
Speaker 1: Okay, Uh so Twitter, Facebook, Instagram LinkedIn for him just
Speaker 1: in few okay, everybody real quick check out, not just
Speaker 1: well check it out, like like literally check it out,
Speaker 1: check out, get it from the store, however how you
Speaker 1: get it from?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: What's seen the book? What's in the book? Tell us?
Speaker 1: Tell you, tell us Black Gold Discovering Pro Wrestling's Black
Speaker 1: World Champions, Volume three or through the dish.
Speaker 2: Has to say what what's in the book?
Speaker 1: No, no, I'm saying plug the book, Come on the book.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if you want to learn about the
Speaker 2: history of the black professional wrestling champions who were world champions,
Speaker 2: it's all detailed in this book. The femaleampions are there,
Speaker 2: the tag team champions are there. That's what especially in
Speaker 2: this one unique. I also have a for the scholars
Speaker 2: out there. There's a rhetorical analysis that starts off with
Speaker 2: WrestleMania nineteen, the match between Triple H and Booker T
Speaker 2: and that particular promo was very controversial thing that that
Speaker 2: kind of sets the stage for what we're talking about
Speaker 2: and gives people an idea of what the black people
Speaker 2: have to go through to be a champion.
Speaker 1: M So, so yeah, you cover people like bear Cat, right,
Speaker 1: both Brazil, Ron Simmons, Uh, Mercedes, Monet Blanca, Bellaire, Jay Cargill.
Speaker 1: Who else you got? Naomi? He just gave it up
Speaker 1: this out recently quest lations her for her pregnancy. But
Speaker 1: real quick, right, you said that you that you only
Speaker 1: follow like W W A W right, So so Mercedes
Speaker 1: especially right, she has like multiple titles concurrently, right, So
Speaker 1: the New Japan, well, well I don't really know which
Speaker 1: ones they are, so dang, I gotta look them up
Speaker 1: because all right, so do you count? So do you count?
Speaker 2: Not?
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about what she has right now, I'm
Speaker 1: talking saying in general, So do you count, for example,
Speaker 1: the New Japan Championship, World Championship? Do you count like
Speaker 1: the Triple A Championship? You count? Like antheis not w
Speaker 1: W or A W.
Speaker 2: Yes, New Japan is definitely a world time.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, okay, yeah, but the thing is right,
Speaker 1: you don't really follow you don't really follow anything other
Speaker 1: than those A W W W, so like you could
Speaker 1: be missing. I mean, I'm not saying that I don't
Speaker 1: know if they do or don't because I'm not super young,
Speaker 1: not as deep the history as you are, but like
Speaker 1: seeing as we.
Speaker 2: Follow when you when you say follow, I can follow
Speaker 2: them online. Now if you're talking about do I watch
Speaker 2: those shows? No, because I don't have access to watch
Speaker 2: those shows on TV, so I can't follow them like
Speaker 2: that when you say follow, But you.
Speaker 1: Still got you still got to be still do your
Speaker 1: still you do your due diligence, you still do your research, right, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: cool cool, cool, okay.
Speaker 2: What they don't show in your area?
Speaker 1: I mean, well, well aspar as New Japan goals right,
Speaker 1: New Japan World, it's like ten dollars a month, that's
Speaker 1: for fans. Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, got you, got you?
Speaker 1: Got you? Got you? Do you did you ever watch?
Speaker 1: Did you ever like like watch or follow TEENA? Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm just curious. Okay, okay, okay, I haven't watched ten
Speaker 1: years because they stopped showing it on my cable provider.
Speaker 1: They stop carrying on the Verizon.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, brother, I was saying earlier. I mean,
Speaker 2: you can't really watch what they don't what they don't show.
Speaker 2: They did have a YouTube, a presence on YouTube at
Speaker 2: one time, but that's.
Speaker 1: I gotta get the Somebody tell me how to watch
Speaker 1: t X look good stuff, the whole NXT partnership. I
Speaker 1: how to watch how to watch teen A? Does like
Speaker 1: get the app or something?
Speaker 2: Now? No?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I think that's everything. And last worst we
Speaker 1: signed off.
Speaker 2: Again. I mean, if you want to know about the
Speaker 2: history of the black professional rap there's Champions World Champions,
Speaker 2: go out and get the book. It tells you everything
Speaker 2: about the singles champions as well as the tag team champions.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I get that book with quicks up playing,
Speaker 1: get that book. I'm I'm I'm gonna read it. I
Speaker 1: definitely want interested. I like, I like to read personally.
Speaker 1: I played like a little about history and a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff. So I'm getting the book too. That's Black
Speaker 1: Gold Discovery Pro Wrestlings Black Champions, third Edition. It's everywhere, man,
Speaker 1: It's all Amazon. It's like it's like in little bookstores
Speaker 1: like Barnes and Nobles, wherever you can go. Well, David L. Shabaz,
Speaker 1: all right, check that out, chak out website that David
Speaker 1: Olshabas dot com. Thank you for the questions. I got
Speaker 1: a lot of them this time, so I appreciate you
Speaker 1: all listening high now on seven five to six w
Speaker 1: dot com. I think we're out of here by way
Speaker 1: right for if you were curious, right reason why I'm
Speaker 1: not d I'm on my bed because I have a
Speaker 1: leg cramps. I'm trying to stretch my leg. I'll be
Speaker 1: all right, That's why I don't want to do think
Speaker 1: I'll like be like disrespectful whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you didn't get a herd in the ring? Did you?
Speaker 1: Oh? Nah? Nah. It's funny too because I was just
Speaker 1: talking about that before before he came on. I was
Speaker 1: on the phone with a friend of mine and I
Speaker 1: was telling how how I'm trying to get im trying
Speaker 1: to get batically cleared, not not to rustle, but to
Speaker 1: be like a like a what do you call it?
Speaker 1: Be featured on a on a promotion look look promotion
Speaker 1: in New York City. So yeah, uh so they say,
Speaker 1: too bad if you if you know more about me,
Speaker 1: what's going on for me? Social media.
Speaker 2: You already know what it is.
Speaker 1: It's not about me, thought my boy David Shabaz Instagram, uh, Twitter, Facebook,
Speaker 1: LinkedIn and I was just going to website that again,
Speaker 1: David boss dot com and get his book and stop playing.
Speaker 1: Get his book. It's good stuff, good stuff, a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of now, a lot of knowledge can
Speaker 1: be dropped on you. So tat out real quick. All
Speaker 1: right man, I'm gonna go take some leave, get something
Speaker 1: to eat and just relax and uh yeah man, I'm
Speaker 1: aller to good stuff, right yeah, come on again some time.
Speaker 2: Love to love too. Thank you your your listeners as well. Yes,
Speaker 2: all right man, all right see