WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:05.559 You're listening to an airwave media podcast. Monster Talk is 2 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:08.519 supported by listeners like you. Find out how you can 3 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:11.759 contribute via Patreon or with reviews at monster talk dot org, 4 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:15.679 forge slash support. Your contributions, large or small, make a 5 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:17.199 huge difference. Thanks. 6 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:20.120 Well, there's a lot of equipment that we use. 7 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:22.239 There's a lot of equipment that you guys never see 8 00:00:22.280 --> 00:00:22.800 on the show. 9 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:24.440 But some of the things is. 10 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:26.199 That they do see on the show a lot of times. 11 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.000 The thermal imaging camera and also the key two meter. 12 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:32.439 Yeah, now this just manages magnetic fields and certain frequencies. 13 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:35.600 None of our equipment is really intended to be used 14 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:38.920 for general investigation. You don't really make that stuff, so. 15 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:40.840 We have to kind of cannibalize them all around us. 16 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:42.520 And this is a lot of our tools come through 17 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:45.840 blex issues. All right, as you've seen, you've got the thermal, 18 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:48.960 you've got the wall here by walk over and equipment 19 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:52.159 heard of the wall one, two, three, four or five. 20 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:53.759 You still see that we've. 21 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:54.399 Got the handprint. 22 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:57.520 We get some of our most compelling evidence using this. 23 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.479 Basically all it is is recorder. 24 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:05.560 It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before. 25 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:13.040 A giant hairy creature, Part eight, Part mass in Luckness, 26 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:15.480 a twenty four a mile long bottomless lake in the 27 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.319 Highlands of Scotland. It's a creature known as the Luckness Monster. 28 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:41.799 Monster. 29 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:46.560 Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm 30 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:50.480 Blake Smith and I'm Karen Stolsner. This is part one 31 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:54.159 of a multi part conversation about ghost hunting gadgets. We'll 32 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:57.239 continue this discussion in near future episodes because I'd like 33 00:01:57.319 --> 00:01:59.920 to dig deeper into the physics described by amateur go 34 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:03.560 hunters as compared to how physics is actually used in science. 35 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:06.719 But for this episode, we're going to focus on the 36 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:10.719 equipment and technology used in amateur ghost hunting. Joining us 37 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:15.479 for this discussion is Matthew Baxter. Matthew spent many years 38 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:20.159 investigating ghosts, performing stage magic, doing tours of haunted sites, 39 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:23.400 and if you didn't know it, he's also Karen's husband. 40 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:26.280 We hope you enjoyed this conversation about a topic all 41 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:33.639 three of us really like. Morenstertle, Welcome to Karen, who's 42 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:41.800 always here, and Matt bater bachter Bus is pronouncing yeah, yeah, buster, 43 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:43.199 buster Buster. 44 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:46.159 He has had that before too. 45 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:55.759 Ghost is my middle name, but seriously so, Yeah, Matt Baxter, 46 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:58.319 I've known you guys for a long time, but. 47 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:01.680 I can't it's I know we've. 48 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:03.159 Have we ever done a monster talk with all three 49 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:05.080 of us. It seems like we have, but I can't remember. 50 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:09.759 You can end Ray Garden too, that's right. 51 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:10.919 Yeah, five or. 52 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.080 Six years ago while wanting to reprise that too, and 53 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:17.400 to I think, just with everything that's been going on, 54 00:03:17.479 --> 00:03:18.879 he was wanting to come back on the show and 55 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:19.479 talk again. 56 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:20.080 Yeah. 57 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:21.240 I like Ray, He's fun. 58 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:22.960 Yeah. 59 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:28.039 That was our Uh. I can't remember what I called it, 60 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:30.879 something about Connecticut Yankee, but it was like it was 61 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:32.639 like a take off of the Connecticut Yankee and King 62 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:36.439 Arthur's Court, what keen Author's Court, That's what it was. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, 63 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:36.879 that's it. 64 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:38.680 Yeah gold punt. 65 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:44.080 Yeah, yeah, I'm terrible. Anyway, Well, Matt, we're having you 66 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.280 back to talk about ghost hunting gadgets. But before we 67 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:49.719 just like dive in on that topic, I thought it 68 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.080 might be useful to sort of back up and explain 69 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:56.400 who you are and what your experience has been in 70 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.599 this this field and how you if you want to 71 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:01.800 talk about a little bit, how you came to your 72 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:03.319 current position on this matter. 73 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:09.960 For sure. Sure, I've been, I guess, in the realm 74 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:14.439 of ghost hunting, paranormal investigator, whatever you want to call it. 75 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:18.600 I've been doing this kind of thing for probably twenty 76 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:22.600 seven or twenty eight years and have worked with a 77 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:27.800 number of groups. And it got to a point to 78 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:31.240 where I realized that with every investigation I was doing, 79 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:36.399 with every interview with you know, claimants that I was doing, 80 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:40.199 that I was actually not learning anything new. And that's 81 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:43.519 kind of the whole point of investigation or research is 82 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:47.000 to try to learn something, to get some new information 83 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:50.319 to go in some sort of direction. And unfortunately, after 84 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:54.360 all that time, it had kind of started grinding to 85 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:57.920 a halt and made me realize that maybe I should 86 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:01.800 shift my gears a little bit more to how people 87 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:07.079 pull off fraud when it comes to ghosts and hauntings 88 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:10.000 and demons and all that kind of stuff, and actually 89 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:14.920 aliens it's another good ripe area for fraud. And started 90 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.959 learning a lot, a lot more, and then after a 91 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:22.759 while you just get psychologically overloaded and you got to 92 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:24.800 step back and take a look at the big picture 93 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:27.639 and and be prepared for podcast interviews. 94 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:32.319 You can never be prepared for this podcast. 95 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.800 Not this one. Nobody expects the monster talk. 96 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:44.079 Well, yeah, you never know. So we've got you know, 97 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:47.319 for people who are to it's gonna say, look what 98 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:49.040 I was just to say, For people who want a 99 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:51.279 little peak behind the screen for how we do this show. 100 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.879 We've been early adopters to Google Docs, and we we 101 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:57.480 kind of share information via Google Docs and you know, 102 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:00.759 do you know behind the scenes at some notes, We've 103 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:05.160 got a cool list of ghost hunting gadgets here. Uh. 104 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:09.279 There some expected and known ones and some rather unexpected 105 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:10.519 ones too, I think so. 106 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:15.319 Yeah, so I thought, Matthew, with your extensive experience, uh 107 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:18.839 doing uh and correct me if I'm wrong, But you've 108 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:22.600 you've done these uh as you would you? Would you 109 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:27.680 say that your position on hauntings has shifted over time? 110 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:29.399 I mean, did you start out as more of a 111 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:32.800 believer and shift to skepticism or did you all were 112 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:35.879 always skeptical or or have you always been secretly a believer? 113 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:37.879 And I'm about to be really surprised what you're going 114 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:38.439 to say. 115 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.399 But you as a skeptic and now is a believer. 116 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:42.360 Wow? 117 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:51.199 Can you blame me? The the It's really interesting because 118 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.959 you kind of get put in those two camps of 119 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:57.800 either being a believer, which you know, they all have 120 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:01.759 their own uh you know, paranormal conferences and everything else, 121 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:05.279 or you're a skeptic and they have their own conferences 122 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:09.480 and everything, and both groups are kind of real pain 123 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:12.600 in the ass. To be honest, it's it's good to 124 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:15.199 keep an open mind. Yes, when you go walking into 125 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:18.040 this stuff. It's good to just say, I'm going to 126 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:21.839 see where the chips fall. But I started off being 127 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.439 more of a believer. But I did my best to keep, 128 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:28.000 you know, a critical mind. But when you have the 129 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:30.240 mindset of being a believer, a critical mind isn't exactly 130 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:33.959 a natural state of beings. So it took a while 131 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:37.480 of me discovering on my own. I mean, I can 132 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:43.920 tell you my first real Scooby Doo type experience. And 133 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:47.000 I was walking up to this old house. Now, this 134 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.759 this house was in a neighborhood that I grew up in, 135 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:53.759 and we all knew it was haunted. So when I 136 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:56.079 had decided I was going to be a paranormal investigator, 137 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:59.000 I went back to this house. I drove back to 138 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:00.720 this town that I hadn't been in for a while, 139 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:02.839 and I went to this house, and I took another 140 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:06.160 investigator with me, and we waited until midnight as you're 141 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:10.480 supposed to, and walked down the driveway, walked up to 142 00:08:10.519 --> 00:08:14.120 the house, and the house had been abandoned for years. 143 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:16.920 So I walk up and I grabbed the front door 144 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:20.759 the doorknob, and I turned the knob and it's unlocked. 145 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:24.319 So of course that gives me a really uneasy sense, 146 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:26.360 and it also tells me you're screwed. You got to 147 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:30.199 go through with this. So I pushed the door open. 148 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:33.360 And when I pushed the door open, I looked back 149 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:35.919 to see where the if my partner was with me. 150 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:38.639 And when I did that, I turned my head back 151 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:41.240 around and the door slammed in my face really hard. 152 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:41.879 Wow. 153 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:44.919 So this scared the crap out of me. I ran 154 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.279 over the top of the other guy down the driveway 155 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:49.240 and I got to the end of the driveway and 156 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:52.080 I said, wait a minute, I am not going to 157 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.159 be a good paranormal investigator if this is how I 158 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:59.480 approach things. So I walked back to the house. I 159 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:02.200 opened up the door, pushed it open, and the door closed. 160 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:05.720 I pushed it open and the door closed, and then 161 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:09.879 I noticed that the top hinge was loose on the door, 162 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:11.639 so every time I pushed it open, it was going 163 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:16.120 to naturally just close. And that was my first real 164 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:19.519 good lesson in don't run away from everything and use 165 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:23.639 a critical mind. And that's been my most valuable piece 166 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:24.840 of equipment since. 167 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.600 You you described that as a Scooby Doo moment. It 168 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:29.360 reminds me of my first Scooby Doo moment. If you 169 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:30.480 don't mind me sharing. 170 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:32.399 I need to hear this. Yeah, so. 171 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.399 I was going to watch horror movies. Excuse me, I 172 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:42.240 was gonna watch horror movies over my mom's house and 173 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:48.120 hold on, I'm gonna cough. Apparently I'm breathing liquid, which 174 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:52.519 is not right, so I U But this was like 175 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:55.320 they were out of town or something, doing doing some work, 176 00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:00.279 and I decided to go to Little Caesar's and they 177 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:02.720 have that thing where you scary Well, yeah, so you 178 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:05.200 can get like two pizzas for like nine ninety nine 179 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:06.440 or something crazy like that. 180 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:09.480 And still it was. 181 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:10.080 A good deal. 182 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:10.600 You know. 183 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:14.120 I was in college, And I got both pizzas and 184 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:16.919 put them in my car and started driving home. And 185 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.559 I sort of started eating pizza as I was driving, 186 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:23.600 which is probably not a great idea anyway. 187 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:24.679 That's more of a shaggy moment. 188 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:27.039 Well maybe it is a shaggy moment because by the 189 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:31.080 time I got home, one of the pizzas was completely gone. 190 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:32.559 How can you explain this? 191 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:37.360 You should have gone back and said, it's supposed to 192 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:39.200 be pizza, pizza, and I only have pizza. 193 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:42.360 I only have pizza exactly now. It literally did remind 194 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:44.279 me that though, because I used to love to eat 195 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:48.639 pizza and watch scary stuff. Wait, I still do that. 196 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:53.519 Never mind, I've had one of those Scooby moments where 197 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:55.919 like you get to unmask in it's old man Peterson 198 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.200 wearing a rubber mask. But I do love it when 199 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:02.759 when you can sort of velma slash thread moments where 200 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:05.960 you really uncover what's really going on. I love it. 201 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:10.399 So Yes, yes, a huge list to get through here, 202 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:18.320 so let's get into these. I'm sorry fun ahead. So 203 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:21.960 to begin with, I think probably the most popular tool 204 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:27.480 used by tools are the email readers. Yes, if you 205 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:29.360 can tell us a little bit about those and how 206 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.360 you've used them and how other people use them. 207 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.919 Well, the way other people use them. It's an electromagnetic 208 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:39.440 field detector, and what they do is you've got basically 209 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:44.799 two different kinds. You've got the kind that basically, uh 210 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.440 looks for a c fields and that's man made, so 211 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:54.799 your microwator human made. Those are human made, so your microwave, 212 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:59.159 your refrigerator, things like that. It's it's that that that 213 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:04.159 human made elect tricity kind of situation. Appliances are big 214 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:06.919 for that. And then you've got the DC ones, the 215 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:13.480 natural fields. Those are more like electrical storms or the 216 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:17.759 Earth's natural electrical field, or a human being or you know, 217 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:20.639 an elk whatever. I mean, it's it's going to be 218 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:26.120 more of a natural field. Now, a lot of a 219 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:29.600 lot of the paranormal investigators or ghost unders really rely 220 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:32.600 on these and they think that if they find a 221 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:37.120 field that it's a ghost. But the truth is the 222 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:42.679 fields are everywhere, and it's hard to not run into 223 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:45.559 an electrical field. Now. 224 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:50.279 Sorry, I was just going to say, I've seen a 225 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:53.440 lot of ghost hunting TV shows where you've got someone 226 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:57.039 who will run an emath reader over themselves or over 227 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.240 someone else in the room. What's that actually and then 228 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:03.960 it's goingpp, what's it actually picking up? 229 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:07.039 Yeah, Well, it depends on the kind that it is, 230 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:12.799 because if it's an AC reader, it's still picking up say, 231 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:16.279 wiring in the wall, and they just think it's picking 232 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:22.399 up themselves or a spirit nearby, because you can actually 233 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:25.320 have someone standing near a wall and run one of 234 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:27.919 those up and down their back and it'll pick something 235 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:31.200 up that's something is strange as standing behind them, when 236 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.600 really what it is is their big body, which is 237 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:37.240 a slab of meat, is reflecting that field back off 238 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.559 of it, so it'll read that field. So the AC 239 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.120 meters are not good for picking up ghosts now the 240 00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:50.960 DC meters. In a former group I was in, the 241 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:54.000 leader had this strong belief that if you're going to 242 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:56.240 find a ghost with an E MF detector, it's going 243 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:00.440 to be one of these natural field detectors. I don't 244 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:04.679 necessarily just agree. I don't agree with that personally, but 245 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:07.080 I think it's good to be able to measure both 246 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.120 kinds of fields. The problem is is you see that 247 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:14.080 theory floating around the paranormal community quite a bit, and 248 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:19.600 people walk around with these meters trying to find a field. 249 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.360 And the problem is is as they're walking around, they're 250 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.240 carrying their own field with them, and that's what the 251 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:28.720 reader will often read is their own field and they're like, oh, 252 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.399 there's a ghost here and it's following me. Not really. 253 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:36.639 It seems like it's really challenging because everybody these days, 254 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:41.399 at least here in the first world country typically well 255 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:43.120 even in third world countries. There's a lot of places. 256 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:48.840 They carry mobile phones, they carry watches, they're walking around 257 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:52.360 with flashlights. They've got all these different pieces of equipment 258 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.120 which can generate fields. And you're going through a house 259 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:58.120 and even if the if you go and turn off 260 00:14:58.120 --> 00:14:59.840 the lights, which seems to be a popular thing to 261 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:02.600 do on a ghost hunt, you still got eletrousity flowing 262 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:08.080 through the walls. I don't understand. I mean, theories about 263 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:12.879 what ghosts are aside, the idea that EMF spikes represents 264 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:17.200 an entity or a sign of ghosts seems really problematic. 265 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:20.519 It is really problematic. But here's here's kind of the 266 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.919 problem with ghost hunting. You have it the the the 267 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:29.720 romanticness of it being spurred on by reality TV. And 268 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:35.000 the real flaw here is people think that they can 269 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:44.080 watch this ohso educated professional such as Zach Begonds, uh 270 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:50.759 you know on the screen, Yeah, you knows. 271 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:55.360 I was just watching he's vegans. I was just watching 272 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:58.879 Demon House. Uh again, I'm sorry, Yeah, yeah, I know 273 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:00.919 the things I do for this show. 274 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:02.879 You know. 275 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.919 You know Daniel Tosh used to call him no no, 276 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:09.799 no no sorry. Joel McHale on The Soup used to 277 00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:16.799 call him Scooby Douche, which sorry but yes it sounds 278 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.799 very push Sorry, sorry, sorry, Matthew. 279 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.960 Well, the thing is is, you know he's up there 280 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:27.240 acting like he knows everything. There's no about this. You've 281 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:29.919 got Jason and Grant from Ghost Hunders doing the same 282 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.440 thing that they're so experienced, they know so much, and 283 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.399 the problem is is they don't know what they're doing, 284 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:40.600 and by the time that they discover that what they're 285 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:43.039 doing is wrong, they're already making so much money at 286 00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:46.000 it that they only really now know how to push 287 00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:50.080 it further to make more money. So you get these 288 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:51.639 people that watch these shows and go, hey, if this 289 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:54.159 guy can do it, I'm learning all this great information 290 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:56.080 from them him, I can go out and I can 291 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:59.919 do this. And it's weird because you don't get someone 292 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.799 that watches an episode of say House and then thinks 293 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:05.200 they can go perform surgery. 294 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.079 But let's hope not. 295 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.640 Yeah, yeah, good point. But the problem is is that 296 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.680 with this people think that they can watch a few 297 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:20.599 episodes and read some articles on the web and they're 298 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:22.720 good to go. They don't need to learn about the 299 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:26.599 equipment what it was originally designed for, because detectors were 300 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:31.200 not designed for paranormal investigation. And since they don't know 301 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.920 what they're actually designed for, they're using them in the 302 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:40.960 complete incorrect way, and so it's all problematic from the 303 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:42.480 moment they turn on that TV. 304 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:47.519 Yeah, so let's move on to another piece of equipment. Well, 305 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:50.200 let's talk about the Spirit box or Frank's box, which 306 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.640 is kind of ties into EVPs. And I don't want 307 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:55.079 to go too deep into VPS because I think that's 308 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.960 worthy of an entire episode. 309 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:01.079 We've treated it on a few episodes. Yeah, you will 310 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:02.119 have to do a full episode. 311 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:06.960 Yeah, it's very interesting. But but the spirit boxes specifically 312 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:12.960 seemed designed to to help pick up audio noise, which 313 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:17.839 you can then search for patterns. But that's my skeptical interpretation. 314 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.400 How do you how do you see them being used? 315 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:28.319 Well, it's it's basically a broken radio. Now. Myself, Absolutely Lovely, 316 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:34.640 an investigative column writer at the time, interviewed Frank Sumption, 317 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.000 and I can't remember her name. 318 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:41.599 I think I mentioned it up to this point that 319 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:42.599 you and I are married. 320 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:55.039 Yeah, okay, I froze for a momentary. I apologize, And 321 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.200 we got to interview Frank Assumption, and you know, he 322 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.200 fully admits that he takes a radio and he breaks 323 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.480 it so it no longer works. So it's a lot 324 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:08.240 like when you would sit in your your dad's pickup 325 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.839 truck and twist the knob back and forth on the 326 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.960 on the radio, and you know, you know, as it 327 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.799 goes across the bands and lots of fun. But we 328 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:24.119 didn't know that we were communicating with both aliens and 329 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:28.920 ghosts and other entities when we did that. And that's 330 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:31.200 what it is is he just uses random voltage to 331 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:32.440 jump across the bands. 332 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.279 And I think the listeners know that you have worked 333 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.799 as a magician of sorts and that you've led theatrical 334 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:44.960 salances and you've used the Frank's Box because we have 335 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:49.759 it Frank's Box, a real Frank's Box from Frank enough 336 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.559 to give us one yes to test, and that you've 337 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.319 used those in your salances and had some fun results 338 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:56.960 in the past. 339 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.880 You know, it was fun because what we thought we 340 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:02.920 were going to have to do. Originally with this Franks 341 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:06.480 Box was put an additional speaker inside of it to 342 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:11.400 play some pre programmed scary things that the ghost could 343 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:14.960 actually say to the participants, But we realized very quickly 344 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:18.759 we didn't need to do that. People are so ready 345 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:21.799 to hear whatever they want out of all this garble, 346 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:25.279 these bits of speech and music and everything else coming 347 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:28.519 out of this thing, that we can just prime them 348 00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:31.960 on what they're going to hear, and they will. So 349 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:35.240 we'll start off and say, can someone in this crowd 350 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:38.359 choose a word that we can have the frames box 351 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.079 say back to us, and then if we can get 352 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:43.559 at least three or four people that heard that word 353 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:46.559 come through, then we can feel comfortable that we've established 354 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:49.440 a connection with the other side. Is that reasonable? And 355 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:52.160 they'll all say yes, and then someone will say, how 356 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:57.240 about calliflower? Okay, so we'll just turn it on and 357 00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:01.920 wait until somebody thinks they heard cauliflower. One person raises 358 00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:04.920 their hand, and then automatically several more will raise their 359 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:08.240 hand because they heard it too, and we're good to go. 360 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.720 We can have that box say anything we prime them 361 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:15.759 to hear. Wow, that's it was. It was so much fun. Yeah, 362 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:17.119 it was a lot of fun too. 363 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:21.640 It always reminds me of two things. Number one is 364 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.559 Bumblebee from the Transformers. 365 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:28.279 Exactly, that's he is the coolest Franks Box ever. 366 00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.279 And the other is, uh, I used to do a 367 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:35.720 lot of road trips back before I had kids and 368 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:40.839 can't get out of my damn house. And yeah, and 369 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.759 I would, you know, late at night, especially crossing the desert, 370 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.160 listening to Coast to coast AM. You'd go from one 371 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.279 you know, radio station zone to another, and in between 372 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:56.759 you could like set your radio to search and try 373 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:58.880 to find signals, you know, to pick up anything to 374 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:03.519 listen to and hopping between like crazy, you know, bounced 375 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:07.559 off signals from Chicago or Mariachi stations and all these 376 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:10.839 different things. You never know what you're gonna hear, and 377 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.400 and it just little pieces and snippets. But you know, 378 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.640 obviously this is a little bit more well weirdly, it's 379 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:22.359 less directed, but it has more i think propensity to 380 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.160 pick up your own signals or you know, interprets your 381 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:25.559 own way. 382 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:28.400 Yeah. I'm really sorry, Blake, but in my head, I'm 383 00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:32.519 imagining you in the role of Tom Cruise and Jerry 384 00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:35.160 Maguire when he's trying to find something good to sing. 385 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:41.960 To show me the Mummy, Show me the Mummy. That's 386 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:42.559 all I'm saying. 387 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.279 But as soon as free falling comes on, man, you're 388 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:47.240 you're ready to go. 389 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.319 Yep, let's not do a rendition. 390 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.000 Now, No, we'll skip that. 391 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:57.720 Well, moving on. What about cameras. I mean, you've used 392 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:01.920 cameras in your own investigations and research in different specific 393 00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:05.279 tops of cameras. 394 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:06.559 A lot of different kinds of cameras. I mean, the 395 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:11.640 best one that we've you know, had luck with just 396 00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:19.279 a plane camera, a digital camera. And it's interesting because 397 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:23.240 people seem to think that infrared cameras are going to 398 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.559 pick up things, or thermal cameras, which is something we 399 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:28.920 should we should talk about probably separately in a minute. 400 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:32.680 But they think that just taking pictures in the dark 401 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.720