WEBVTT 1 00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:17.000 You are listening to the Confronting Christianity podcast. I am 2 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:22.120 here with my erstwhile co host Kyle Walley. Kyle is 3 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:28.800 a pastor, author, podcast of What Foster Father and so 4 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:32.759 many other things, and in particular, today we are going 5 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:34.640 to be talking about Kyle's new book, which is fun 6 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:41.200 because we talked, I think end of last season about 7 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:45.359 many things and how Christians can be talking with others, 8 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:48.359 both inside and outside the church in ways that reflect 9 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:55.320 the gentleness and love of Christ. And today we're going 10 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:59.039 to be talking about a topic which is very close 11 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:00.560 to my heart in that I I feel like it's 12 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.200 one of the most underpreached elements of the Gospel and 13 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:06.120 has perhaps even closer to Krsark because he's readen a 14 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:09.359 whole book about it, which is the topic of union 15 00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:13.280 with Christ. And I think your forthcoming book, Kyle is 16 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:19.760 beautifully titled actually Home with God Union with Christ. Tell 17 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:23.799 us why that title Home with God is an interesting 18 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:28.959 sort of angle on this whole idea of Christian union 19 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:31.000 with Christ. Why why'd you go that direction? 20 00:01:31.319 --> 00:01:33.400 Well, I mean, I think part of it is the 21 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.560 whole story of the Bible is God inviting his people 22 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:41.519 to dwell with him like God creates a home that 23 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:45.280 he then you know that he populates, and he invites 24 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.200 his creatures to dwell with him, namely the image bearers 25 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:51.840 us as human beings, he invites us to dwell in 26 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:54.159 his presence. I mean, that's the story in the garden, 27 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:56.480 and it's the story at the end of the end 28 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.040 of the story, right, the whole Revelation twenty one and 29 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:01.040 twenty two. Behold, the well in place of God is 30 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:04.359 with man. And so I think, from beginning to end, 31 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:07.079 the story of the Bible is the story of home 32 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.280 with God. And honestly, I think one of the real 33 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:13.319 treasures of the doctrine of union with Christ is that 34 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:16.680 it shines a light on what I think is the 35 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:19.240 goal of the good news of the Gospel. You know, 36 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:21.479 a lot of times when we think about Christian salvation, 37 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:25.680 we place the emphasis on forgiveness. But forgiveness is not 38 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:29.439 the goal of salvation. Fellowship is the goal of salvation, 39 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:31.759 and union with Christ is showcasing that. 40 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:34.919 Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. I think in many 41 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:36.840 people's minds, if they have some sort of grasp on 42 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:41.639 the message of Christianity, it is that Jesus died so 43 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:44.240 that we could be forgiven so that our sins could 44 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:48.479 be paid for. And it's almost like I think, in 45 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:50.840 some people's minds that kind of gets us to a 46 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:56.319 zero sort of point. If you think about, imagine your 47 00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:58.879 bank account. Maybe you're in massive debt and you're thinking, 48 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:00.879 what am I going to do about this matter of debt. 49 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:05.400 Jesus's death takes that debt away, and I think we 50 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.280 sort of missed the fact often that it's not just 51 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:10.680 that we brought back to you know, we're back in 52 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:14.639 the black, but with zero dollars or pounds or yen 53 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:19.719 in our account, that we are filled up with Jesus's righteousness, 54 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:22.840 and that it's not even just in the sort of 55 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:26.599 computational sense, but that it's actually in the relational sense. 56 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:31.520 Tell us what did you primarily learn in the course 57 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:33.439 of writing this book sort of for yourself as you 58 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.319 were reflecting on what it means for us to be 59 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:38.960 united with Christ if we're follow us with him. 60 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:42.719 Yeah, So, I mean, I think this is something that 61 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:44.919 I encountered. The doctrine of union with Christ is something 62 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:48.560 I encountered long after I became a Christian, and like 63 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:50.879 a lot of times in our discipleship, as we walk 64 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:54.000 with the Lord. There are things that we've probably heard 65 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:57.280 just in the course of Christian living, Christian discipleships, sitting 66 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:01.159 under faithful preaching, that don't really click for us until 67 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:04.520 later on. I'm sure I had heard about the wonders 68 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:07.919 of union with Christ prior to the time in which 69 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:11.240 I became aware of it, or I became conscious of it, 70 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.439 but I can remember it was actually sitting in a 71 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:16.800 class in seminary with doctor Sinclair Ferguson where it really 72 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:19.439 clicked for me, where it really kind of all came 73 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:21.680 to the surface, so to speak, that the doctrine of 74 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:26.279 union with Christ is not a part of the doctrine 75 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:30.120 of Christian salvation, but is like the foundation of Christian salvation. 76 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:32.879 And so whenever I was writing this book, I think 77 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:35.439 the thing that occurred to me, and it occurred to 78 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:37.839 me too when I read Sam's book, our mutual friend 79 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:39.800 Sam Alberry, he has a wonderful book coming out. It 80 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:43.720 actually come out before mine. Mine releases in like spring 81 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:46.319 of twenty twenty five. Sam's comes out sometime this fall 82 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:48.639 in twenty twenty four. And it occurred to me while 83 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:50.600 I read Sam's book as well. But it's just the 84 00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:54.360 majesty is that God is inviting us not just into 85 00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:00.279 being made righteous, but being in a relationship. I think 86 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:02.759 a lot of times when we think about Christian salvation, 87 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:06.199 there is a little bit of what has God saved 88 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:09.519 us for. We talk a lot about what God has 89 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:11.759 saved us from. God has saved us from sin. God 90 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:14.519 has saved us from death. God has saved us from 91 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:17.360 the kingdom of the Prince of the power of the 92 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:20.600 air Satan. There's a lot of talk about that. There 93 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:22.959 is less talk about what God has saved us for. 94 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:25.000 And when we think about what God has saved us for, 95 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:29.319 we almost always move towards our response, which is a worship, 96 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:32.399 mission and obedience. And that's certainly true. In Christ Jesus, 97 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:35.920 we have been freed up to participate in God's world, 98 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:38.759 in God's man, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, in 99 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.519 God's beloved Son. But it's not just that God has 100 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:46.360 freed us for our response to that. God has freed 101 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.839 us for fellowship with Him delighting love. So I think 102 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.040 the thing that I don't know if I learned it, 103 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:57.439 but I certainly was kind of being reoriented by it 104 00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:00.519 as I reflected on it is that in Christ Jesus. 105 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:03.399 I am not just the recipient of God's gracious love 106 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:07.480 that forgives. I'm a recipient of God's delighting love that beholds. 107 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:11.079 You know, zeph and Iah three talks about God rejoices 108 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:14.319 over his people and song, he delights over them and dance. 109 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:17.879 He quiets them by his love. This great truth is 110 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:21.839 that in Christ Jesus the beloved Son, I too, among 111 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:24.240 God's people, are beloved because I'm in the beloved One. 112 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.639 And that's a really I think that's understated. When we 113 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:29.959 think about the good News of the Gospel. You know, 114 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.519 we talk about much about God's mercy to forgive and 115 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:34.399 less about God's delighting love. 116 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:36.720 Yeah, I think that's absolutely right, and it's something that 117 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.199 I mean, one of the glories of being a Christian 118 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.079 is at the end all of the different things that 119 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.279 we learn about God from the Bible actually connect up 120 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:49.199 with each other. That they're not just sort of these discrete, different, 121 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:52.600 you know, different ideas that happen to have been grouped together, 122 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:56.560 but they're all fundamentally connected. And for me, one of 123 00:06:57.079 --> 00:07:01.120 the primary ways in which union christ union with christ 124 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:04.000 Lands is actually in the in the whole area of 125 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:08.319 how God has designed Christian marriage because it's one of 126 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:09.879 the I mean, as we've talked to a number of 127 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:13.720 times on this on this podcast, one of the strangest 128 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.639 in our cultural moment today, one of the strangest kind 129 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:22.000 of Christian doctrines is the the teaching that sex only 130 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:24.600 belongs in marriage, and the marriage is between one man 131 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.879 and one woman for life, and that this forges a 132 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:33.600 one flesh union between these two entities. But actually when 133 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.000 we when we look at that in the context of scripture, 134 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:38.120 what we find is that it's it's part of how 135 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.920 God is teaching us about our union with Christ. And 136 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:45.240 you know Impall's letters to the Ephesians, he describes Christian 137 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:49.079 marriage as being a picture of Jesus' relationship with as people, 138 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:51.240 of that one flesh union, of that sort of head 139 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:53.720 and body. You and I wouldn't do very well if 140 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:57.560 our head and our body were disunited from each other, 141 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:01.120 you know, seven from one another. And like wh if 142 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.639 we are followers of Jesus, we are connected with him 143 00:08:04.279 --> 00:08:07.199 as closely as a head with a body like that. 144 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:10.639 I mean, it's just ridiculous to think of them them apart. 145 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:13.600 And I think one of the other pieces of this 146 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:14.839 and I think this is something that you and I 147 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:16.360 have talked about at length, and I know it's something 148 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.439 that you're passionate about. Is a lot of emphasis over 149 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:24.439 the last you know, ten to fifteen years and published material, 150 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:26.879 kind of at the lay level on union with Christ 151 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:30.600 is on identity. And that's a crucial part of the 152 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.080 doctrine of union with Christ is that in Christ Jesus, 153 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:35.639 we are given a new identity. The way I talk 154 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:38.120 about in the book is in Christ we receive a 155 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:41.039 new me. And there is a lot of attention given 156 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.120 to the question of identity in who we are. And 157 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:45.120 that's been true for a long time, but it's been 158 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:48.399 particularly true and kind of this cultural moment of reflection 159 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:50.799 on identity over the last fifteen twenty years, the question 160 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.480 of who am I has increased in relevance in this 161 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:57.440 kind of late modern period. The book talks a lot 162 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:00.240 about how are the doctrine of union with Christ, how 163 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.240 our union with Christ are being in Him and with 164 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:06.360 Him and through Him reshapes how we view ourselves and 165 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.200 who we are before God and others. I would say 166 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:11.679 one thing that did become clear to me as I 167 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:13.720 wrote the book that was more of a discovery. And 168 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:17.039 I know you know you've written You've written more books 169 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:19.120 now than there are degrees on a thermometer, So you 170 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.679 know that you can start reading, uh, you can start 171 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.600 writing a book and discover something along the way. But 172 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:27.879 one of those things, one of the things that I 173 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:31.840 discovered in writing this book was just how emphatic the 174 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.879 Bible is not on our individual participation in Christ, but 175 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:39.639 in terms of our incorporated participation in Christ. In Christ Jesus, 176 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:41.679 we don't just receive a new me. We receive a 177 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:44.600 new we. We're we're now, We're now brought in to 178 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:47.240 the family of God. We become sons and daughters of 179 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:50.799 God because we are in God's beloved Son. And we 180 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.799 become brothers and sisters in Christ because we are in 181 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.399 Christ Jesus. And this is for all that the Bible 182 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:03.759 has to say about how being in Christ changes me, 183 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.759 it has more to say about how being in Christ 184 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:13.200 now changes we change us collectively. And that was something 185 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:17.000 that I think that given my kind of embeddedness in 186 00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:20.799 the global West and a hyper individualistic age, I discovered, 187 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:25.720 you know, I've probably been too emphatic about the identity 188 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:30.600 piece of union with Christ and to understated about the 189 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.480 incorporation the new we that God gives us as a 190 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:36.120 new family in Christ. And I was really delighted to 191 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:38.159 discover that. I know that's something you're passionate about as well. 192 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:39.360 I mean, I think one of the things I've always 193 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:43.000 been encouraged by in your witness has been that you 194 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:48.120 and your family have really decided to have a meaningful 195 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.600 belonging to a group of people. I see that in 196 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:52.720 your life, and I've seen it lived in the way 197 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:54.639 that you travel and the way that you live there 198 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.200 and your online presence that you're very committed to this 199 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:02.000 sense of we're not just going to use the body 200 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:05.320 of Christ language as a metaphor, but you've really tried 201 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:07.919 to make it kind of the pitter patter, so to speak, 202 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:09.840 of your ordinary life. And that's been a witness to me. 203 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:10.720 So thank you for that. 204 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:14.320 Yeah, And I think it's something which, as you point out, 205 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.080 as you know, those of us who are coming to 206 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:20.320 the scriptures with the twenty first century is sort of 207 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:23.759 Western mindset. It's really easy for us just to miss 208 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.919 definitely how much family language there is there, how much 209 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:29.360 of a sense, as you point out, of the we 210 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:33.000 of the it's not just that we are united with 211 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:36.279 Christ individually, but that by virtue of being in Christ, 212 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.279 we are one with one another, and that there are 213 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.879 ways in which that needs to look real in our 214 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:45.639 lives and not just just in our talk. I'm curious. 215 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:47.639 So one of the ways in which I think you 216 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:52.360 actually beautifully sort of model what it looks like to 217 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:55.559 be a follower of Jesus in a particular way is 218 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:57.559 in the fact that you and your wife are are 219 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:00.360 foster parents. Are there ways in which I'm just thinking 220 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:02.240 about this, even the sort of concept of home with 221 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:06.120 God and creating a home for people who for one 222 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:09.639 reason or another have been without a home in the 223 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:15.840 sort of normal, typical biological sense of family. How has 224 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.960 your experience as a foster father helped you to understand 225 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:21.600 more of what it means for us to be invited 226 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:22.840 into God's home. 227 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:26.600 Yeah, well I'm learning and my family is learning. You know. 228 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:29.240 I think that I think when we think about the 229 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:32.320 life of the Christian, when God invites us to make 230 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:34.120 our home with Him in Christ, because that's how I 231 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:36.840 think about you with Christ, is that God is inviting us. 232 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:39.120 You know, a lot of times the simple gospel presentation 233 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:43.639 that we hear in many situations and certainly in many 234 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:47.440 evangelistic presentations, is God is inviting you to invite Him 235 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.879 into your life. And there is some language in the 236 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.399 New Testament about being about Christ in us, but the 237 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:57.639 overwhelming emphasis in the Bible and the overwhelming emphasis in 238 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:00.399 the New Testament is not God is inviting you to 239 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:03.360 invite Him into your life. It's God is inviting you 240 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:06.720 to surrender your life to live with Him in Christ. 241 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:13.320 That is far and away, it's his house. And so 242 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:19.279 it's definitely focused on, Hey, we're as we reside in Christ. Now, 243 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.159 as we take up this dwelling places we receive this 244 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:25.399 new home with God in Christ. It does affect and 245 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:27.639 I talk about this really in the second half of 246 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.679 the book. I talk at length about how this begins 247 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.639 to affect the life that we live because now that 248 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:37.679 we live in Christ Jesus, it has incredible bearing on 249 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:40.919 the way that are the household of God. So a 250 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:45.200 local church should uh should live its life and our 251 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.120 individual households as kind of whatever that means, whether you know, 252 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:52.000 I'm living with roommates, or I'm living with a spouse, 253 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:55.000 or I'm living with extended family. Maybe I'm in a 254 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.559 multi generational household. Maybe I'm in a maybe I'm just 255 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:02.240 a good native and I'm inviting people in through hospitality, 256 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:06.080 or whether we're having children biologically, or we're adopting children 257 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:08.480 as my family has done, or fostering children as we're 258 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:12.120 doing now, any of those situations. The doctrine of union 259 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.919 with Christ absolutely shapes how we participate in the world 260 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:18.960 through these kind of smaller households like a local church, 261 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:22.960 and then our individual households, principally, because if we have 262 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:26.559 been welcomed by God in Christ, even though we couldn't 263 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.279 earn it and we don't deserve it, and it's not 264 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:32.559 just because of grace and mercy and pity, but because 265 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:36.120 of compassion and love and delight, well, then that does 266 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:37.799 shape the way that we live as a church as 267 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.759 a hospitable community, and the way that we exercise that 268 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:46.120 hospitality as individual households. Oftentimes, Christian compassion is grounded in 269 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.799 some sort of I need to pay back to God 270 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:53.279 through this kind of theological altruism. God has done so 271 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:54.720 much for me, so now I need to do so 272 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:58.519 much for him. Right Like Gosh, I'm the recipient of 273 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:00.879 great grace, and so as the sipping of great grace. 274 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:03.519 I should extend great grace. That's not not true. I 275 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:06.480 think that's a part of kind of the chemistry of 276 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:09.720 Christian love and compassion. But it's not the only thing. 277 00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:12.519 Because God's love for us is not only the love 278 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:15.600 of grace and mercy. It's the love of delight and fellowship. 279 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:19.639 So this means that Christian hospitality is not just I 280 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:22.039 am going to reflect back the grace that God has 281 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.639 given to me. It's no, no, I'm also going to extend 282 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:27.240 to the world the welcome that God has extended to me. 283 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.399 You see, it's not just duty, it's also delight. It's 284 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:34.159 not just forgiveness, it's also fellowship. It's not just I must, 285 00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:37.200 it's that I can. It's not just that I will 286 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:40.080 or I should, It's that I want to. And so 287 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.159 this is I think, a really beautiful thing. I'll tell 288 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:45.120 you one area that I think this actually kind of 289 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:48.279 getting off of your original question, but certainly relevant to 290 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:52.039 our kind of contemporary conversations. How much conversation has there 291 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.679 been in the last let's say, seven to ten years 292 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.960 on the question of justice in a broken world? Significant 293 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:05.600 and for good reason, because we increasingly find ourselves grappling 294 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:12.840 with demonstrations and depictions of injustice. And as we grow 295 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.279 in our historical awareness and as we grow in our 296 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:20.519 global awareness, we've increasingly become concerned at a cultural level 297 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:23.039 around the question of justice, what is right and good. 298 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:27.159 I think the doctrine of union with Christ actually empowers 299 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:30.720 Christians to improvise on justice knowing that the review on 300 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:33.159 our lives is already in We don't have to go 301 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.240 out into a world to pursue what is just so 302 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:37.080 that we can prove to that very same world that 303 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:40.000 we are just, or proved ourselves approved to God. In 304 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.600 Christ Jesus, God has already declared us righteous, He's already 305 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.559 declared us just, and on that foundation we can pursue 306 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.279 what is just without having to try to perform justice 307 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.879 in a way that's self serving. I think that's an 308 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:53.679 example of how union with Christ doesn't just shape kind 309 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.679 of our theology, doesn't just shape the the way we 310 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.480 read the Bible, though I spend significant time talking about 311 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:02.159 that in the the book. It also shapes the way 312 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:05.480 that we just live in the way of Jesus because 313 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:10.359 we're living in Christ themself, and it produces tremendous power 314 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:13.359 and tremendous freedom in living that life that I think 315 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:17.200 is directly tied to our meditation or reflection on this 316 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:18.279 doctrine specifically. 317 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:20.640 Yeah, No, I think that's absolutely right. One of the 318 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:25.519 verses that I've kind of almost stubbed my toe on 319 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:31.920 recently is that little line in Romans when Paul says, 320 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:36.319 welcome one another as Christ has welcomed us or you 321 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.640 to the glory of God. And it's like, it's easy 322 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.680 to gloss over it. Yeah, I mean, there's so much 323 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:45.359 when you read the Letter of the Romans, there are 324 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.119 so many verses that sort of smack you in the 325 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.880 face that it's easy to miss that command to welcome 326 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:54.559 one another as Christ has welcomed us. But if we 327 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:57.000 sit there and we realize what on earth Paul is 328 00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.480 saying there, I mean, how has Christ welcomed you and 329 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:05.039 me not only by becoming a human being and living, 330 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.200 you know, among us, taking our flesh upon himself, but 331 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.839 also by dying in our place and rising from the 332 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:13.839 dead to bring us into everlasting life with like. The 333 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:19.160 welcome that Christ has extended to us is radical, beyond 334 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:23.119 our wildest imaginings, and that is the model for how 335 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:26.079 we are to welcome one another in the church, regardless 336 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:28.720 of where we come from, or what we look like, 337 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.400 or how you know, how naturally sympatica we may be 338 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:37.119 with one another. That there's this extraordinary call to unity, 339 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.240 and I think that expresses itself in Christian fellowship. It 340 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.880 expresses itself in ways that are just because if I 341 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.720 consider other believers to be members of my own family, 342 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:52.960 and people with whom I have are sort of built 343 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:57.000 in intimacy, I'm going to care about their needs and 344 00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:00.839 their suffering and the ways in which they are excluded 345 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:04.079 or sort of pushed down, just as I would care 346 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:05.960 about that for my own children or for my own 347 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:09.599 You know that it takes away that natural human tendency 348 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:14.720 to kind of them and us people, because in Christ, 349 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.519 within the church there is only an Us, and then 350 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:22.359 the them's outside the church are those We're also called 351 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:26.200 to extend Jesus as welcome to and to plead with, 352 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.000 to love even our enemies because of the way that 353 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:35.400 Jesus has loved us when we were his enemies. There's 354 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:38.720 this radical you know, people talk today about, you know, 355 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:41.519 radical acceptance or whatever, and I'm like this, as with 356 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.720 so many things in the world today that have grown 357 00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:48.960 secular legs, they're actually Christian concepts. 358 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:49.079 No doubt. 359 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:50.440 Yeah that radical welcome. 360 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.839 Yeah no, no, you're exactly right. And we actually talked 361 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:56.640 in some way about this fairly early on in the 362 00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:59.559 history of this show. We talked about the exclusivity of 363 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:04.000 Christ and one of the things while the exclusivity of Christ, 364 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.240 by which I mean that Jesus Christ is the only 365 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:10.079 way to fellowship with God, forgiveness of sins and freedom 366 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:12.599 in God's world, both now and forever. That's what we 367 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:14.519 mean by exclusivity, that there is no other way to 368 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.640 God or to dwelling with God outside of Christ. That 369 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:23.720 on its surface, in a late modern age is offensive. 370 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:27.480 I mean, it is just because it is demonstrating exclusivity, 371 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:33.000 exclusivity of story, exclusivity of belief. It is narrow. But 372 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:36.400 the reality is is that in Christ we find what 373 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:41.799 is simultaneously radically exclusive and radically inclusive. It's radically exclusive 374 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.640 because you can only enter into fellowship with God in 375 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.640 and through Christ Jesus. But it's radically inclusive and that 376 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:51.400 anyone can like, anyone can like. It doesn't matter what 377 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:55.039 your sexual orientation is, It doesn't matter what your background is. 378 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.200 It doesn't matter what your ethnic or cultural background is, 379 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:00.640 what your socioeconomic class is, it does not matter. Now 380 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.680 when you come to him, he will tell you have 381 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:07.640 to surrender everything about you to His identity in his way. 382 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.480 And if you do that, if you step into that 383 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:14.440 and you surrender all that you are, then he invites 384 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:17.640 you in in forgiveness and in fellowship. And that really 385 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.440 is good news. And it's good news specifically because it's 386 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:24.880 tied to this new identity and this new body, this 387 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:28.000 new membership, this new incorporation that He gives us in Christ, 388 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:30.680 Jesus by grace through faith. And so I mean, I 389 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.240 think that's one of the things that the doctrine of 390 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.240 union with Christ holds forth, is that the good news 391 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.839 of the gospel that most often people here is God 392 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.160 wants to forgive you for being wrong and you were 393 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:45.920 born wrong. That is a true and essential part of 394 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:50.880 the gospel. But I do find that many people are 395 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:54.200 put off by that because there is not because it's 396 00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:57.279 offensive on its surface, even though it is to our 397 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:02.400 sin bent selves, because it's not complimented. But by what 398 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:05.720 the goal of that is. God isn't just giving, He's 399 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:07.839 not just saying I want to forgive you because you 400 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.240 are wrong and you were born wrong. That's true, but 401 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.079