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<v Speaker 1>And this half hour, we're taking a few minutes to

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<v Speaker 1>talk with Mary grab who is, among other things, the

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<v Speaker 1>author of Debunking FDR, The Man and the Myths. And

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<v Speaker 1>there were I guess rumors that White House staff thinking

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<v Speaker 1>that Joe Biden might actually run for the White House,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were concerned that he'd be in a wheelchair.

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<v Speaker 1>But then they said, oh, we can say he's just

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<v Speaker 1>like FDR. Maybe not maybe not such a good idea

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<v Speaker 1>after all, if you look at the real history of

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<v Speaker 1>Franklin Delana Roosevelt and what he did. Of course, we

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<v Speaker 1>got the news this week that Joe has other concerns

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<v Speaker 1>now that we were not aware of, with the advanced

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<v Speaker 1>prostate cancer diagnosis. But another another one of those things

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<v Speaker 1>about history is that some people will claim that in

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<v Speaker 1>debunking FDR, are you are in fact rewriting history. For

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<v Speaker 1>some if they read a little bit, you're not rewriting history.

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<v Speaker 1>You're writing the history and rig hting of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

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<v Speaker 1>So tell me why you decided to tackle this particular topic, mary.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I was actually researching something else, as often happens

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<v Speaker 2>when you have an idea for a book, I was

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<v Speaker 2>researching a conservative black journalist, and I've been working on

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<v Speaker 2>since two thousand and eleven, George Schuyler, who switched from

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<v Speaker 2>being a socialist to a conservative, and it was largely

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<v Speaker 2>due to Franklin Roosevelt. And then I discovered that so

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<v Speaker 2>many others had done the same thing, and that was

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<v Speaker 2>because he was such a terrible president and he did

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<v Speaker 2>not help you know, number one, blacks, He did not

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<v Speaker 2>help the working class people. He did not help you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the common man, as he said he would and said

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<v Speaker 2>he was concerned about. So I started looking into him

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<v Speaker 2>and then noticed all these histories that you know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about what a great president he was and how

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<v Speaker 2>he saved the country, and that was not the case

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<v Speaker 2>at all. As I discovered, well, a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the projects that he started and initiated during the

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<v Speaker 1>Great Depression, actually many people would argue, extended that depression.

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<v Speaker 1>It did not do anything to alleviate the misery, the unemployment,

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<v Speaker 1>the inflation, everything else that was a part of America's

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<v Speaker 1>stock market crash and ensuing nightmare. He really didn't do

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<v Speaker 1>anything to help it, but actually exacerbated it.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that what you found, Yes, absolutely, you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>lot the rest of the world had recovered and we

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<v Speaker 2>were still one thing along of what Franklin Roosevelt should

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<v Speaker 2>have done A most you know, reputable economists degree is

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<v Speaker 2>to allow you know, the market to correct itself, which

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<v Speaker 2>is what happened after World War One. You had an

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<v Speaker 2>overproduction of you know, farm goods and so forth. And

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<v Speaker 2>after Europe recovered, then wages went down and prices went down.

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<v Speaker 2>But eventually, you know, they'll find their equilibrium. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>President Herbert Hoover, you know, did a little bit of that.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, he encouraged business leaders to raise wages, thinking

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<v Speaker 2>that that would raise prices and you know, lead to recovery,

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<v Speaker 2>and that didn't work. But Franklin Roosevelt just put that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Hoover's programs on steroids and just exacerbated the situation.

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<v Speaker 2>So by nineteen thirty seven we had a.

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<v Speaker 1>Second press, right, and we only really came out of

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<v Speaker 1>that due to World War two production. Is that the

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<v Speaker 1>way it actually worked, or.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, a lot of a lot of people say that,

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<v Speaker 2>but that was it was a little misleading because a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the working age men were overseas fighting the war,

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<v Speaker 2>so you have very low unemployment. You know, you had

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<v Speaker 2>Rosie the riveter, the women working in factories, and so

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<v Speaker 2>that was artificial. And it took a while, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>after World War Two for the economy to come back.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, there was rampant inflation after the war.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, but but Roosevelt, I think did see

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<v Speaker 2>the war as a way to sort of help save

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<v Speaker 2>his presidency or his legacy, and you know, really did

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<v Speaker 2>want to get involved.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, he's often cast as a reluctant president, but he's

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<v Speaker 1>also the only president that was ever elected to four terms.

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<v Speaker 1>He just couldn't get enough of the White House, could he.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. I mean, you know, he knew he had

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<v Speaker 2>serious health problems even before he ran for the third

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<v Speaker 2>term in nineteen forty. But this idea that he was

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<v Speaker 2>a reluctant president or a reluctant politician, you know, that

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<v Speaker 2>was the rumor about him when he ran for the

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<v Speaker 2>New York States Senate, and it's absolutely false. When he

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<v Speaker 2>was an undergraduate at Harvard, he told his girlfriend or

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<v Speaker 2>his you know, the girl he wanted to be his girlfriend,

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<v Speaker 2>that he thought that he could be president and that

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<v Speaker 2>that was his ambition. And he said it again when

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<v Speaker 2>he was a young attorney. So there's plenty of evidence

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<v Speaker 2>that that was his ambition all along, and he felt

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<v Speaker 2>that it was his birthright to be president, and he

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<v Speaker 2>modeled all his actions on what cousin Theodore Roosevelt had done. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>The myths that are detailed here in Debunking FDR. The

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<v Speaker 1>Man in the Myths, many of those were actually not

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<v Speaker 1>concocted by anybody else but FDR himself. Right, he made

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<v Speaker 1>up these stories that would make Joe Biden's cannibalized uncle blush.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he did. There were so many. It's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you think you've found all of them, and then there's

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<v Speaker 2>another one. You know. He you know, even when he

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<v Speaker 2>flew to Chicago, breaking tradition to be there to accept

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<v Speaker 2>the nomination and make a speech, you know, he said,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we encountered some turbulence, but it's a good

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<v Speaker 2>thing I had my Navy training. He was never in

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<v Speaker 2>the Navy. He was an assistant secretary of the Navy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, all right, hold on just a second, We'll take

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<v Speaker 1>a break and come back. Mary graybar as our guest.

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<v Speaker 1>The book is debunking FDR. The Man and the Myths

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<v Speaker 1>that the Great, the heralded, Great Savior of America during

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<v Speaker 1>the Great depression in World War Two, maybe not so much.

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<v Speaker 1>Back to this Tuesday Morning on fifty five KRC with

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<v Speaker 1>Mary Graybor, the author of Debunking FDR. The champion of

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Left, the dictator, and the country squire in

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<v Speaker 1>the White House. He was often known as that, And

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<v Speaker 1>he got how did he put down all of his detractors?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, he had to put out fires because a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people just weren't going along with these plans

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<v Speaker 1>right at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, he silenced the press. You know. He was

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<v Speaker 2>friends with the publisher of the New York Times, and

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<v Speaker 2>one reporter was a critical of him, and so he

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<v Speaker 2>contacted the publisher and this reporter was sent to Uruguay,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, and he wrote a letter to the

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<v Speaker 2>publisher of the Yale Review because he didn't like an

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<v Speaker 2>article that John T. Flynn had written, and the publisher said, well, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we're never going to publish him again. And so,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and John Flynn was one of his biggest critics.

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<v Speaker 2>He's been pretty much forgotten these days. But I go

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<v Speaker 2>into his criticisms a bit in the book and try to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, revive these very legitimate criticisms. So FDR had

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<v Speaker 2>connections and he knew how to silence people.

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<v Speaker 1>How much was Eleanor Roosevelt involved in the administration of FDR.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, she, you know, I mean he treated her very badly,

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<v Speaker 2>and I go into that in my book. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>he had that famous affair. You know, the woman who

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<v Speaker 2>was his mistress was with him the day he died

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<v Speaker 2>on April twelfth, I believe, nineteen forty five. And so

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<v Speaker 2>they basically had a political relationship. And I don't think he,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, really could have risen as far as he

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<v Speaker 2>did without her help. For example, when he was governor,

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<v Speaker 2>they took a tour through the state and inspected state

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<v Speaker 2>institutions like mental hospitals and prisons, and Eleanor would be

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<v Speaker 2>sent out to you know, check out the facilities and

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<v Speaker 2>report back to him. She held the teas for politicians' wives.

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<v Speaker 2>She and her female friends, you know, shortly after women

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<v Speaker 2>got the vote, went out and campaigned for him. She

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<v Speaker 2>was his you know legs, you know, when he couldn't walk,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, was very very helpful to him, and

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<v Speaker 2>of course became very wealthy in the process because she

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<v Speaker 2>was probably the highest paid writer in the country, although

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<v Speaker 2>in my opinion, not writer at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, during in my estimation, Lyndon Baines Johnson was a

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<v Speaker 1>terrible president. And he, you know, he extended this government

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<v Speaker 1>dependence through the Great Society and welfare. But he was

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<v Speaker 1>just taking pages from FDR's playbook, wasn't he.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, well, he you know, he got his start, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in the youth administration of you know, the New Deal program.

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<v Speaker 2>He was the youngest director of a New Deal program.

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<v Speaker 2>So and he sidled up to Franklin Roosevelt and campaigned

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<v Speaker 2>on his coat tails and you know, had a picture

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<v Speaker 2>taken with him and used that in the campaign. So, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>he was a protege of FDR.

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<v Speaker 1>And he did he did more. You know, he's always

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<v Speaker 1>championed as a I know we're talking about FDR, but

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<v Speaker 1>he's always champion in LBJ as a you know, champion

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<v Speaker 1>of race relations and civil rights in this country. He

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<v Speaker 1>did more to divide this country racially than anyone else

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<v Speaker 1>I can think of in the twentieth century, Am I writer?

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<v Speaker 2>Or what? Oh? Yeah? Absolutely, you know, and of course

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<v Speaker 2>with affirmative action, and you know, this is what we're fighting,

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<v Speaker 2>this is what President Trump is fighting, Affirmative action and

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<v Speaker 2>that evolved into DEI and basically struggle sessions in the

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<v Speaker 2>workplace and in the classroom. And it's ironic because both

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<v Speaker 2>FDR and LBJ like to use the N word. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, yeah. So you know, they were known as

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<v Speaker 2>you know, racist, but in order to get the votes,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they gave out favors if Franklin Roosevelt. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>in October nineteen thirty six, just days before the election,

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<v Speaker 2>he unveiled a new chemistry building on the campus of

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<v Speaker 2>Howard University thanks to American tax layers. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, this was promoted to the black community in

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<v Speaker 2>order to get the black votes.

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<v Speaker 1>They've been doing that for a long time, the Democrats have,

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<v Speaker 1>for certain, and a lot of what our current president

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<v Speaker 1>has been doing in the Doze initiative and all of that,

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<v Speaker 1>and the try to dismantle the administrative state, that all

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<v Speaker 1>really began during FDR's terms as president. The administrative state

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<v Speaker 1>and a fourth more or less a fourth leg of

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<v Speaker 1>the federal government that is not constitutional and shouldn't be.

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<v Speaker 1>But that all goes back to Franklin Delamo.

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<v Speaker 2>Roosevelt absolutely, and a lot of people think that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he instituted these New Deal programs all these alphabet agencies

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<v Speaker 2>because he's, you know, struggling to find a solution for

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<v Speaker 2>the Great Depression. But as a matter of fact, as

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<v Speaker 2>I go into in my book, you know, Debunking FDR,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm looking at his early career as a young state

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<v Speaker 2>senator in Troy, New York in nineteen twelve. He's talking

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<v Speaker 2>about interdependence and why should a farmer be able to

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<v Speaker 2>decide whether or not he's going to, you know, let

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<v Speaker 2>a field go follow, or whether he'll plant corn or

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<v Speaker 2>wheat or whatever. And he said, you know that the

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<v Speaker 2>government should be able to force him to do all that.

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<v Speaker 2>Now this is nineteen twelve, you know, we're we're talking,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, twenty years before you know he even runs

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<v Speaker 2>for press. So he wanted to do this all along,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Great Depression provided the opportunity for him. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure Woodrow Wilson would have wanted to do this, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know he didn't have the opportunity. But Franklin Roosevelt

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<v Speaker 2>did take advantage of it and do what he wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to do all.

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<v Speaker 1>Along, never let a crisis go to waste. Yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>the book is debunking FDR. The Man and the Myths.

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<v Speaker 1>The author is Mary gray Bar and our gracious host

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<v Speaker 1>or guest this morning. I guess I'm the host. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know how gracious I've been, but I appreciate, I

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate your time, certainly for spending. The book is out now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes it is. It's available anywhere books.

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<v Speaker 1>They're sold, all right, fantastic, Thank you so much. In

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<v Speaker 1>great success with that.

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<v Speaker 2>Book, Mary, thank you very much. You bet you.

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<v Speaker 1>We continue on fifty five KRC, the talk station