Speaker 1: I think it's something i'd always heard about. I'm sure
Speaker 1: like many others. You know, there was a Patterson gimmel
Speaker 1: On film that I was so interested in when I
Speaker 1: was little. My dad's part Native, and I grew up
Speaker 1: around a lot of Shinna Rapahoe relatives and friends and
Speaker 1: had always heard about Bigfoot as something real. It was
Speaker 1: a little confusing to me growing up because I knew
Speaker 1: people who were very normal saying, people who had seen
Speaker 1: them and had encounters and had history of them and
Speaker 1: spoke of them just as something completely normal and something real.
Speaker 2: Jody, thanks for joining me on Bigfoot Crossroads.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you very much. It's nice to finally talk
Speaker 3: to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked a little bit, not very much, but
Speaker 2: I think we knew some of the same people and everything.
Speaker 2: Are you originally from Oklahoma?
Speaker 1: Yes, I originally grew up in western Oklahoma, out in
Speaker 1: Roger Wills County and Custer County and grew up there,
Speaker 1: then joined the Army, went to grad school, have lived
Speaker 1: all over the world. Both traveled around the world both
Speaker 1: with work and grad school, and army was out in
Speaker 1: California and Arizona for a while and then moved back
Speaker 1: to Oklahoma in twenty fifteen, and actually part of why
Speaker 1: I moved back to Oklahoma, to be honest, was I
Speaker 1: kept hearing more and more about Bigfoot in Oklahoma and
Speaker 1: just couldn't resist coming back to my home state and
Speaker 1: getting involved in, you know, looking for Bigfoot and bigfoot
Speaker 1: activities here.
Speaker 2: Now, do you remember, like the first time you heard
Speaker 2: about Bigfoot.
Speaker 1: I think it's something I'd always heard about. I'm sure
Speaker 1: like many others. You know, there was a Patterson Gimlin
Speaker 1: film that I was so interested in when I was little.
Speaker 1: I think at that time I thought it was I
Speaker 1: didn't think it was real, but I really wanted it
Speaker 1: to be real. And I just I grew up. My
Speaker 1: dad's part Native, and I grew up around a lot
Speaker 1: of shina Rapaho relatives and friends, and had always heard
Speaker 1: about Bigfoot as something real, just like you know, it
Speaker 1: was a deer or a coyote, or you know, maybe
Speaker 1: something a little bit different than an animal or a
Speaker 1: human like we are. So it was a little confusing
Speaker 1: to me growing up because I knew people who were
Speaker 1: very normal saying, people who had seen them and had
Speaker 1: encounters and had history of them and spoke of them.
Speaker 1: Just as something completely normal and every day, not not
Speaker 1: every day, but something real, And then mainstream culture treated
Speaker 1: it almost like a joke when I was younger, and
Speaker 1: it was a little hard for me to put those
Speaker 1: two together.
Speaker 3: I just didn't quite know how to take it.
Speaker 1: I just I've always loved being outside, you know, being
Speaker 1: out in the woods.
Speaker 3: My family, we grew up on a farm, grew up.
Speaker 1: Going camping, and I've just I've always loved scary things
Speaker 1: and the idea of scary monsters in the woods.
Speaker 3: So it was something I was just.
Speaker 1: Always very interested in and I really wanted to be real.
Speaker 1: But I don't think it was until more recently that
Speaker 1: it started really thinking into me that this might actually
Speaker 1: be something legitimate.
Speaker 2: Do you remember offhand some of the stories you heard
Speaker 2: growing up.
Speaker 1: I just I heard a lot of some personal encounters
Speaker 1: of people that I knew, you know, people I know
Speaker 1: really well. I have one good friend who was a
Speaker 1: tribal police officer for in the years, and he had
Speaker 1: had some sightings himself, his dad had had sightings, other
Speaker 1: people he knew had sightings. As a police officer, he'd
Speaker 1: been on several calls out in western Oklahoma for both
Speaker 1: white and Native families and people you know, seeing Bigfoot
Speaker 1: and calling it into the tribal police wanting assistance with it.
Speaker 1: So there were so many stories like that, and then
Speaker 1: so many stories of places where especially Native people would
Speaker 1: put out offerings like food for Bigfoot, and it was
Speaker 1: talked about just as oh, yeah, you know, we gave
Speaker 1: food to the family down the road, and then we
Speaker 1: gave food to the Bigfoot family, and just it was
Speaker 1: it was always spoken of very matter of factly, like
Speaker 1: you know, it's something important, it's something kind of sacred,
Speaker 1: but real, like it wasn't a myth. There were just
Speaker 1: so many stories of people, you know, more white people
Speaker 1: out in western Oklahoma where I grew up, just saying
Speaker 1: there's a monkey man in the woods.
Speaker 3: And it was it was stories like that.
Speaker 1: From people that I knew, that I knew they weren't joking,
Speaker 1: and also stories told kind of cautiously because they didn't
Speaker 1: want to be made fun of. And it just it
Speaker 1: was just kind of like this underlying thread for a
Speaker 1: lot of my life growing up out there, that there
Speaker 1: is something out there, which I think, you know, western Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: it's because of the terrain and everything, it's often overlooked.
Speaker 1: It's not what you think of as Bigfoot territory, but
Speaker 1: there definitely is something there.
Speaker 2: I was fortunate enough early on in the Bigfoot career
Speaker 2: to meet some people from that part of the country.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Dan and Vicki, and we were really good friends.
Speaker 2: I consider them family. And they lived in a small
Speaker 2: community outside of Anta Darko, and they had such amazing
Speaker 2: stories and it was, like you're saying, kind of just
Speaker 2: the locals knew about this stuff, and stuff was going
Speaker 2: on all the time. I didn't know too much at
Speaker 2: that point. I don't think I had gone farther west
Speaker 2: than Oklahoma City. That was kind of my cutoff. And
Speaker 2: I remember the first time going to visit them at
Speaker 2: their place and driving out there and everything and watching,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm from Green Country up in Tulsa, and
Speaker 2: watching it kind of fade away it completely flat and
Speaker 2: more almost desert like even in some places, and just
Speaker 2: looking around and thinking like, there's no way, there's just
Speaker 2: no way that this much Bigfoot activities happening out here.
Speaker 2: And boy was I wrong. You know, once you get
Speaker 2: off in it, it's crazy how much stuff there is,
Speaker 2: all the canyons filled with woods, and I remember driving
Speaker 2: along the highways and just seeing treetops sticking up above
Speaker 2: the canyon and just it looks like scrubbrush out there,
Speaker 2: but once you get in it, it's these huge ravines.
Speaker 2: And they've seemingly really adapted to the area and the
Speaker 2: terrain because they're living in and around communities and being
Speaker 2: encountered on a regular basis to the point where it's
Speaker 2: not even that big of a deal anymore to a
Speaker 2: lot of the locals.
Speaker 1: Right, And I think there's still I think it's changed
Speaker 1: a lot in the last ten to fifteen years, you know,
Speaker 1: as far as being acceptable to talk about, but I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people still just are hesitant to say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw something really strange and through my trash last
Speaker 1: night or early this morning, or I was kayaking down
Speaker 1: the river and saw these footprints, And I don't know
Speaker 1: why a giant person with huge feet is walking barefoot
Speaker 1: around in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 3: They're just I think there's just so much out here.
Speaker 1: And I think if you look at where people live,
Speaker 1: not just in recent history, but you know, going back
Speaker 1: native history, you know, thousands of years.
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously it's a habitat that can.
Speaker 1: Support large predators, and I think it can support you know,
Speaker 1: large apes, just like it can support us. And there's
Speaker 1: so many pockets, like if you look at an aerial
Speaker 1: you know, Google earth View or something, you look at
Speaker 1: all that you can trace all the creeks and the rivers,
Speaker 1: and when you go there, like you said, you realize
Speaker 1: these aren't just little pockets of trees. Sometimes it's a
Speaker 1: huge habitat of a deep canyon where you could live
Speaker 1: for years and years and no one would ever come,
Speaker 1: No human would ever come there.
Speaker 2: There was an area that I don't know what the
Speaker 2: real geographic name of it is, but they referred to
Speaker 2: it as Purgatory and it got, yes, pretty famous for
Speaker 2: this sort of stuff and has a long history. And
Speaker 2: that area is still to this day one of the
Speaker 2: most rugged and wild places I've ever been to. And
Speaker 2: you wouldn't even know it's there.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And I think that's that's a hidden gem
Speaker 1: out here. Is there's so many like if you just
Speaker 1: drive through on I forty, for example, it just looks
Speaker 1: like the plains. But if you're from here and you
Speaker 1: know where to go, and you get off the main
Speaker 1: roads and you get out into the back roads out
Speaker 1: into the country. You realize there's so many canyons, there's
Speaker 1: so much habitat out here, there's so much you know,
Speaker 1: unexpected terrain that I think it really makes it a
Speaker 1: rich habitat.
Speaker 2: Now, what made you decide to take the plunge and
Speaker 2: actually go out and start researching this stuff.
Speaker 1: I when I moved back in twenty fifteen, I you know,
Speaker 1: this was a big part of why I moved back.
Speaker 1: You know, I moved back for family reasons and you know,
Speaker 1: wanted to be closer to our family farm. But I
Speaker 1: was just becoming more and more interested in the thought
Speaker 1: of could there really be something is this?
Speaker 3: Is this actually real?
Speaker 1: Is there actually a big foot or something like this
Speaker 1: in my home state? And so I moved back and
Speaker 1: I started just trying to kind of get into the community,
Speaker 1: kind of see what was happening. I had no I
Speaker 1: didn't know anyone else really who was interested in it.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know where to start. And I heard
Speaker 1: of a big foot conference in southeast Oklahoma, which, you know,
Speaker 1: growing up, we mostly for vacation went to Colorado, so
Speaker 1: you know, occasionally East Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: So it was at that time.
Speaker 1: An unfamiliar area for me. So I just decided to
Speaker 1: go and see what it was all about. And you know,
Speaker 1: I went to a couple conferences over in southeast Oklahoma
Speaker 1: and it was interesting. I think the most interesting part
Speaker 1: for me were one night they had some people, you know,
Speaker 1: it was kind of like a fire and they had
Speaker 1: people just talk about their experiences, and some of them
Speaker 1: were a little hard to believe, but some of them,
Speaker 1: you know, I remember one man in particular. He was
Speaker 1: a Native Man from Concho, which is near where I
Speaker 1: live now, and I know people who know him, and
Speaker 1: he had some incredible stories and so I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's there's something here, and so I went back. I
Speaker 1: can't remember, I think it was maybe twenty sixteen. I
Speaker 1: went back to another conference in the fall, and that
Speaker 1: conference was a little more focused on, I guess, more
Speaker 1: than mythological aspect, which wasn't something I was terribly interested in.
Speaker 1: And I still didn't really know anyone, and I was
Speaker 1: getting a little frustrated because it was it was very
Speaker 1: heavily focused on, you know, the speakers talking about mind speaking.
Speaker 1: That's just you know, kind of out of my realm
Speaker 1: and out out of my area of interest. And so
Speaker 1: I was thinking, I was a little disappointed and just
Speaker 1: kind of thinking, Okay, maybe maybe this isn't what I
Speaker 1: thought it was. Maybe these guys are a bunch of
Speaker 1: looney bins, Maybe it's not worth my time driving at
Speaker 1: the way over here. And I was just about to
Speaker 1: leave and decided to just have lunch before I hit
Speaker 1: the road, and I got some lunch, walked outside. There
Speaker 1: were some tables and there were two gentlemen sitting there
Speaker 1: who had recognized, you know, for being at some of
Speaker 1: the events, and they invited me to sit.
Speaker 3: Down next to them and start talking.
Speaker 1: And those two people were Marvin Leaper and John Harrow,
Speaker 1: And to this day, I mean, I count them as
Speaker 1: two of my best friends and favorite people to go
Speaker 1: out in the woods with. And so I started talking
Speaker 1: to Marvin and John, and I think spent the rest
Speaker 1: of the afternoon talking to him, and they, you know,
Speaker 1: they just started Marvin, I remember, in particular, just telling
Speaker 1: me like, look, it's not all like this, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a real thing. And they started telling me
Speaker 1: about some of their experiences. And I think for me,
Speaker 1: it was just the right place at the right time,
Speaker 1: meeting the right people. Yeah. So for there, I mean,
Speaker 1: I just really clicked with both of them, you know,
Speaker 1: still to this day, talk to them often, you know,
Speaker 1: go out in the woods with them often. I've got
Speaker 1: some crazy stories from the three of us and other
Speaker 1: people being out in the woods, being chased out by
Speaker 1: mountain lions and a mama mountain lion, a cub and all.
Speaker 3: Kinds of things like that.
Speaker 1: But from there, my story just I kind of threw
Speaker 1: Marvin and John. I ended up joining NAWAC, which fit
Speaker 1: in well with my background, you know, military background. I
Speaker 1: was in search and rescue. I was an EMT and
Speaker 1: it seemed like a good fit at the time. So
Speaker 1: I was in NAWAC for a few years and then
Speaker 1: I was getting you know, I've been into area X
Speaker 1: number of times, both with that group and then on
Speaker 1: my own, and from there, I you know, that group
Speaker 1: has changed over times. So now I'm in several other groups.
Speaker 1: I'm in a group with Brian Brown and Brennan Lynz
Speaker 1: and a lot of other guys from an AWAC. It's
Speaker 1: a group called WARG. And then I do a lot
Speaker 1: with Mike Waldy and Mike White, you know, Marvin and
Speaker 1: Jerry Heston and John Harrell. We go out a lot
Speaker 1: in southern Oklahoma. So I think through that first fortunate meeting,
Speaker 1: you know, with Marvin and John, I've been able to
Speaker 1: really meet some incredible, incredible people, you know, Chester Moore,
Speaker 1: Paul Fazynski, and get more into the community, get more involved,
Speaker 1: find more people to get out in the woods with,
Speaker 1: and from there, it's just I've never had a solid sighting,
Speaker 1: but I've I seen some weird things. I've heard some
Speaker 1: absolutely unexplainable things, had some incredible things happen that if
Speaker 1: I were to tell someone off the street, they think
Speaker 1: I was insane, but I know it was real. I
Speaker 1: know it happened, and I'm absolutely convinced. Now I can't
Speaker 1: say one hundred percent there's a big fit out there
Speaker 1: because I haven't seen it, and I think until it
Speaker 1: sits down with me or I see it very clearly,
Speaker 1: I'm probably still going to be a little skeptical. But
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm so convinced now that there is something
Speaker 1: out there that I'm I'm probably obsessed, you could say obsessed.
Speaker 2: I mean that happens to pretty much everybody that gets
Speaker 2: involved in this. It seems, you know, that bigfoot fever,
Speaker 2: the addiction, whatever you want to call it. Maybe it's
Speaker 2: an adrenaline rush. I don't know. It's weird. I look
Speaker 2: back and here it is, you know, geez, twenty six,
Speaker 2: twenty seven years later and I'm still doing it. It's
Speaker 2: kind of weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I've got you know, I've got I
Speaker 1: mean it. It sounds a little crazy to say that
Speaker 1: my life revolves around it, but like I've got two
Speaker 1: of my best friends, Chad and James, Chad Doris who
Speaker 1: lives here in Oklahoma City, But I talked to Chad
Speaker 1: and James, Chad Doris and James Ruster a pretty much
Speaker 1: every day. And then the War Group we have a
Speaker 1: chat in almost every day we're talking about Bigfoot.
Speaker 3: So I think it's just something. I don't know what
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 1: I think there could be an interesting psychological or sociological
Speaker 1: study about those of us who get the bug. But
Speaker 1: I think once you realize there is something there, you
Speaker 1: just become obsessed with it and you can't get enough
Speaker 1: of it. Like I was in the woods just last
Speaker 1: weekend with Mike White and Mike Waldy and I cannot
Speaker 1: wait to get back, even though it's one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty million degrees out. Yeah, it's just like.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm missing out when I'm not there.
Speaker 1: This afternoon, you know, I'm doing shores at my house
Speaker 1: and I'm just thinking about my gear and I need
Speaker 1: to get more batteries for my headlamp.
Speaker 3: Like It's just it gets into your brain to the point.
Speaker 1: That I don't even know how much time out of
Speaker 1: the day I spend thinking about this and thinking about
Speaker 1: my next trip out there, and thinking about stories that
Speaker 1: I've heard. And I don't know why, but it just
Speaker 1: it really gets its teeth into you.
Speaker 2: So tell me about I don't know if it was
Speaker 2: a specific moment or maybe a combination of moments that
Speaker 2: move the needle for you where you realize, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: there is something out here. Even if you haven't seen
Speaker 2: a bigfoot. I think people still reach that point where
Speaker 2: they realize, Okay, well I haven't seen one, but there
Speaker 2: is something out here and it's not matching anything that's
Speaker 2: supposed to be here. What was that experience for you?
Speaker 1: I think for me, what laid the groundwork. We're just
Speaker 1: growing up with so many stories like that. That thought
Speaker 1: was already there in my mind, and I had become
Speaker 1: more obsessed with it, you know, early I think it
Speaker 1: was about twenty sixteen. I was camping with some friends
Speaker 1: in southeast Oklahoma. This was near Honby, and we'd been
Speaker 1: out for the weekend. Saw some strange things. Everything was
Speaker 1: you could have explained it away if.
Speaker 3: You thought about it.
Speaker 1: You know, just weird, but there's probably a logical explanation.
Speaker 1: And so it was the last morning there and someone
Speaker 1: had put out a recorder, and of course, like it
Speaker 1: always happens, the recorder ended before this incident happened. And now,
Speaker 1: having dealt with you know, audio recorders and videos and cameras,
Speaker 1: I understand that's just the nature of electronics and batteries.
Speaker 1: Like you hear that often as an excuse, like my
Speaker 1: phone quit working. I'm telling you, it happens. It's real.
Speaker 1: So I was sleeping near two other females, two other women,
Speaker 1: and there were some guys in tents a ways away
Speaker 1: from from us, and it was right before dawn, and
Speaker 1: I woke up, like just I'm once, I'm asleep, I'm
Speaker 1: a fairly deep sleeper, but I just I woke up.
Speaker 3: Something woke me up, and I heard this whoop.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't just a single whop, it was a
Speaker 1: series of I don't maybe seven or eight whoops in
Speaker 1: a row, and it seemed like it was coming. It
Speaker 1: was coming from the west of where we were sleeping,
Speaker 1: and it seemed like it was coming from the woodline,
Speaker 1: and it was it was very clear. I mean, I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe that it didn't wake up everyone else. And
Speaker 1: so I sat up and I was just like, what
Speaker 1: on earth is that sound? And it was it was
Speaker 1: like nothing I'd ever heard other than in re on podcasts.
Speaker 1: And so I sat up, and by the time the
Speaker 1: whoops ended, it occurred to me I should grab my
Speaker 1: phone and record it. And obviously it was way too
Speaker 1: you know, it's dark, and I'm fumbling and couldn't even
Speaker 1: find my phone and couldn't find the buttons, so obviously
Speaker 1: didn't get it recorded. And I was just wide awake.
Speaker 1: And then my thought was, it's the guys playing a
Speaker 1: trick on us. So I'm now convinced that they had
Speaker 1: some sort of broadcasting equipment, some sort of speakers. They're
Speaker 1: out in the woodline playing a joke on us. And
Speaker 1: so I got up and I thought, I'm going to
Speaker 1: catch these guys, and so I snuck outside and I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there very quietly convinced that I'm I'm gonna figure
Speaker 1: out what happened here, and I'm just sitting outside, as
Speaker 1: you know, is it starting to get light. And then
Speaker 1: I started watching the guys come out of their tents,
Speaker 1: and I realized it wasn't any of them, because I
Speaker 1: can now see all of them. It wasn't that I'm
Speaker 1: watching them come out of their tents. Were in an
Speaker 1: area where there weren't other people, and I don't know
Speaker 1: what that sound was, but it was so clear, and
Speaker 1: it was so unlike anything I'd ever heard personally myself
Speaker 1: that I just was like, I've got to find out
Speaker 1: what this was. So when I got home, I stayed
Speaker 1: up way too late, listening to every recording I could
Speaker 1: find of birds and amphibians and toads and frogs and
Speaker 1: anything I could find recordings of things in that area
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma, and nothing was similar. And so it was
Speaker 1: Actually Todd Jurassic had been the person who had a
Speaker 1: recorder out that night and it ended, you know, unfortunately
Speaker 1: before this series of whoops, But he did get a
Speaker 1: recording earlier in the evening of a single boop, and
Speaker 1: that's exactly what I heard. But what I heard was
Speaker 1: you know, a number of them in a row. And
Speaker 1: so I have that recording of just the single boop
Speaker 1: and I sent it to a good friend of mine
Speaker 1: who's a primatologist. Didn't tell her what it was. I
Speaker 1: just sent her the audio file and said what is
Speaker 1: this And she came back and said it's a given?
Speaker 1: Like really, and she said, yeah, that's a gibven. Why
Speaker 1: do you ever recording of a given? And I didn't
Speaker 1: tell her at the time that I don't think it's
Speaker 1: a given because that was just last night in Southeast Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: and I don't think there's any Gibbons running around the
Speaker 1: woods there. But that was her professional opinion was it
Speaker 1: was an ape or it was a primate. And then
Speaker 1: when I listened to recordings the Gibbons, it was pretty similar,
Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, and that for me, it just
Speaker 1: it flipped a switch, like it went from Hey, this
Speaker 1: is kind of cool, this is something interesting to Nope,
Speaker 1: there's something out there. I mean, I heard it myself, absolutely,
Speaker 1: there's something. I'm completely convinced there's something out there. And
Speaker 1: then just everything I've experienced since then, everything people I
Speaker 1: know and trust have experienced, have just solidified that even more.
Speaker 2: Have you heard a range of other types of strange
Speaker 2: vocalizations over the years.
Speaker 1: Yes, I've heard so many things and I start to forget.
Speaker 1: I've started trying to write down because I think once
Speaker 1: you're out in the woods enough, it just it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's another woodlock, wood knock, that's like the two hundred
Speaker 1: wood knock I've heard, maybe not two hundred, but it
Speaker 1: just becomes it. And we used to talk about that
Speaker 1: when we were in Area X. Just after so many
Speaker 1: wood knocks and you know, rock throws. It's not that
Speaker 1: it becomes every day, but it just becomes part of
Speaker 1: your environment. It's like, of course they're doing that. Of
Speaker 1: course they do that. And so I've heard weird, weird howls.
Speaker 1: The last I think it was April, I was out
Speaker 1: with with Chad and Brian and some other people and
Speaker 1: we heard Brennan Lentz was there and we were just
Speaker 1: sitting there talking around the fire and heard what was
Speaker 1: very similar to an Ohio howell, which is the first
Speaker 1: time I've ever heard that in person, and it's just
Speaker 1: it's so thrilling to, you know, to have heard recordings
Speaker 1: of this from other parts of the country and to
Speaker 1: finally hear it yourself in person, and it's just clear,
Speaker 1: you know that, you know, I've grown up hearing coyotes.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a freaking coyote. Yeah, And I've heard mouth pops.
Speaker 1: I've heard you know, weird like rock crashing sounds, breathing sounds,
Speaker 1: bizarre growling sounds. I've heard very strange. Actually this was
Speaker 1: at my house here, almost like a Sierra sound type mumbling.
Speaker 1: Just so many things that it's like I can tell
Speaker 1: someone on the street what I heard and they're going
Speaker 1: to think I'm nuts, but I'm absolutely I know what
Speaker 1: I heard. And what just makes me more convinced is
Speaker 1: I've heard so many other people say the exact same thing.
Speaker 1: Like I had weird breathing sounds one night and Area X,
Speaker 1: And then I'll listen to a podcast and someone from
Speaker 1: you know, Pacific Northwest had the exact same thing happen,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, there's no way we're all making this up.
Speaker 1: You know, there's no way we're all hearing the same
Speaker 1: weird things and just dreaming it.
Speaker 2: How you heard the talking what people talk about like
Speaker 2: something sounding like it's talking and like sort of some
Speaker 2: unknown language.
Speaker 3: I heard that actually here at my house and I live.
Speaker 1: Just to put it into context, so to make it
Speaker 1: make a little more sense. I live just a few
Speaker 1: miles east of Concho, where there have been, you know,
Speaker 1: a number of fightings. The best sighting I've ever heard
Speaker 1: of was by someone named Kurt Stanley, and that was
Speaker 1: just a few miles from where I live, along in
Speaker 1: a on a pond of farm pond along a creek.
Speaker 1: So I live in an area that you would drive
Speaker 1: by and think there's no way, but there's so much
Speaker 1: history in this area. I'm right near where the Chicken
Speaker 1: Man of ville Reno was. I'm not too far from
Speaker 1: Purgatory that you mentioned earlier, the sightings at Stinchcombe. I
Speaker 1: go kayaking there all the time, so to put it
Speaker 1: in contacts, I'm literally in the middle of all of
Speaker 1: that on purpose. That's part of why I bought land here.
Speaker 1: But one night, it was several years ago, it was
Speaker 1: in the summer, and I was I live out in
Speaker 1: the country, and I have horses, and I was working late.
Speaker 1: I was outside feeding my horses and I was separating
Speaker 1: my horses to eat so everybody would eat their own
Speaker 1: food without fighting, and I had been talking to my
Speaker 1: boss on the phone about a problem at work, and
Speaker 1: so I was kind of, you know, I'm waiting for
Speaker 1: the horses to finish eating. So I'm seeing back and forth,
Speaker 1: and I'm walking from the barn to my house, which
Speaker 1: is about one hundred feet and then the house out
Speaker 1: to the road, which is maybe another three hundred feet.
Speaker 1: So I'm on the phone with my boss, just kind
Speaker 1: of pacing back and forth. I'm kind of agitated because
Speaker 1: we had things going on at work, so I was
Speaker 1: kind of worked up, you know, upset about that. I
Speaker 1: got off the phone with my boss. I'm still waiting
Speaker 1: on the horses, and I was just kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: irritated by what was happening at work.
Speaker 3: So I kept just kind of pacing back and forth.
Speaker 1: And it's after dark, and I'm pacing back and forth
Speaker 1: and going from the barn to my house, back to
Speaker 1: the road, back to the house, you know, just back
Speaker 1: and forth. And as I came around the north side
Speaker 1: of my house, you know, completely not paying attention, no
Speaker 1: situational awareness, not paying attention to my surroundings because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm at home.
Speaker 3: There's nothing here.
Speaker 1: I came around the corner and to the south of me,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I hear that just this weird
Speaker 1: like re all, I mean, just this bizarre sound, and
Speaker 1: it sounded like talking, but it was so deep, like
Speaker 1: if I imagine, like if a bear talked like this deep,
Speaker 1: deep gloom, and it was so bizarre, like it just
Speaker 1: literally stopped me in my tracks. And immediately after that sound,
Speaker 1: the dogs from my neighbors farther south just went insane.
Speaker 1: They started barking and going crazy. So I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: there was something because the dogs heard it, and now
Speaker 1: they're going nuts. And immediately south to me is a
Speaker 1: vineyard where they, you know, they have grapes and it
Speaker 1: was the time of year when the grapes were ripe,
Speaker 1: so it made sense that there could be some sort
Speaker 1: of animal, you know, going after the grapes at that
Speaker 1: time of year. And it was such a weird sound.
Speaker 1: I didn't immediately recognize what it was. I just knew
Speaker 1: I'd never heard anything like that before, but it was familiar,
Speaker 1: like it reminded me of something, and it was just
Speaker 1: so shocking, and it sounded to me like a very
Speaker 1: large animal, like with a deep, deep, deep voice. So
Speaker 1: I was a little concerned, you know, because I'm thinking
Speaker 1: this it sounded like it didn't sound like a mountain
Speaker 1: lion because they have more of a high pitched D
Speaker 1: line voice. Didn't really sound like a bear, and we
Speaker 1: don't have I mean, there are bear in Oklahoma, but
Speaker 1: I've never heard of them here. I know we have
Speaker 1: mountain lions here, but didn't sound like a mountain lion.
Speaker 1: So I'm just like, it absolutely didn't sound like a human.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, is that like a three hundred pound raccoon?
Speaker 1: Is it a hood? Like? It just it It did
Speaker 1: not sound human. It sounded like an animal. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: what on earth? And so I thought, I need to
Speaker 1: know what that is if if it's a predator and
Speaker 1: it's right near my horses. So I start marching over
Speaker 1: to the fence line to see what this is. And
Speaker 1: I got about halfway there and thought, this is stupid
Speaker 1: because if there's a predator over there, that sounds huge
Speaker 1: and I'm walking over there, that's pretty stupid. So I
Speaker 1: turned around and went back in the house and got
Speaker 1: a rifle and you know, a good headlamp, and went
Speaker 1: back out a little more cautiously, thinking, you know, if
Speaker 1: there's a predator. I need to be a little more
Speaker 1: careful about it. And I went out and looked with
Speaker 1: the light.
Speaker 3: I never saw anything.
Speaker 1: I didn't hear it again, but I was a lot
Speaker 1: more cautious the next few nights, you know, just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I know I heard something. It sounded to me like
Speaker 1: a predator and it was close to my horses. The
Speaker 1: horses were not acting strange at all. So and I've
Speaker 1: ridden horses, you know, these horses around mountain lions and
Speaker 1: bears before and they would react to the sense of
Speaker 1: a predator, so they were fine. So that made me think, Okay,
Speaker 1: I I don't know, I don't know what that was.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until maybe a few days later it
Speaker 1: just hit me, like, I know where I heard that
Speaker 1: sound before. It was that recording was that Ron moorehead
Speaker 1: the Sierra Sounds. So I googled that, looked it up
Speaker 1: on the internet, and I'm like, rely, crap, that's exactly
Speaker 1: what I heard. And then I'm like, but what I
Speaker 1: heard wasn't long and drawn out. It was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, a short snip of it. But I'm like
Speaker 1: that that's why I thought it sounded. I knew I'd
Speaker 1: never heard that before, but that's why it sounded familiar.
Speaker 3: That's exactly what I heard.
Speaker 1: And then I've you know, I've had a number of
Speaker 1: other friends who've heard the same thing in Southeast Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: and so I can't say what it was. I didn't
Speaker 1: see it. I never heard it again. I never saw
Speaker 1: anything over there. But it was just one more like
Speaker 1: check box on my list of Okay, that was bizarre.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what else could make that sound.
Speaker 2: And you were home alone at the time, yes, just
Speaker 2: laying this all out there, home alone, woman upset outside,
Speaker 2: talking on the phone, pacing around. I can't believe that
Speaker 2: you didn't turn around and see a bigfoot standing there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there are so many sightings that happened that in that
Speaker 2: exact circumstance. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think I was just so distracted by
Speaker 1: you know, the phone call and what was going on
Speaker 1: at work, that it didn't even it didn't even dawn
Speaker 1: on me. I wasn't even thinking about pilots or anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, so I think, you know, and I have
Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts about like human behavior out in
Speaker 1: the woods and how animals and particularly something intelligent like
Speaker 1: Bigfoot would react to us. I think it would have
Speaker 1: been for any animal watching me at that point, it
Speaker 1: would have been obvious that I was distracted. Honestly, probably
Speaker 1: would have been easy prey because I was not paying attention.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, it just it was so weird.
Speaker 1: And the next few nights, it just it just kept
Speaker 1: like haunting me, like, I don't something was right there.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was.
Speaker 2: Now, was that the only thing that you've had happened
Speaker 2: at your house?
Speaker 1: That's the only thing right here?
Speaker 3: I had a really weird thing happen.
Speaker 1: I think it was maybe the fall after that, it was,
Speaker 1: we had a fall or spring. I know it was
Speaker 1: within like a year of that incident, you know. So
Speaker 1: several years ago, I was volunteering at a Scottish festival
Speaker 1: in Yukon, and so to get from my house to Yukon,
Speaker 1: I have to there are many ways to go. The
Speaker 1: roads are pretty rough, so I have kind of like
Speaker 1: a weird path of back roads that I take to
Speaker 1: get there to avoid the worst of the bumps. And
Speaker 1: so I had driven on this back road that morning
Speaker 1: to get to the festival. I was at the festival
Speaker 1: there it was going on into the evening, but I
Speaker 1: had to go home back to my house. I don't
Speaker 1: remember if I had to get something or I went
Speaker 1: home to feed the horses, but I had driven home
Speaker 1: and went down this road. There was nothing there. It
Speaker 1: was still daylight at that point. I was at home
Speaker 1: for I don't know, thirty minutes or so, and I
Speaker 1: was driving back the same exact road. There. It's a
Speaker 1: stretch of road where it's one of those areas where
Speaker 1: there's a lot of trees, like really heavy dense trees,
Speaker 1: where you can't see into the tree line. It's so
Speaker 1: dark and there's just one house on this stretch of road.
Speaker 1: And I had driven it so many times I never
Speaker 1: thought about it. And I'm driving down the road and
Speaker 1: at that point I was in my car, so it
Speaker 1: sat down lower, and I see this big thing in
Speaker 1: the road and it wasn't there like thirty minutes ago.
Speaker 1: And so I'm driving into town and there was just
Speaker 1: this thing. And as I get close to it, I
Speaker 1: realized it's a dead deer and it was not there
Speaker 1: thirty minutes ago. And it's still daylight. It was kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, maybe a little bit before dusk
Speaker 1: and the deer was it wasn't a fresh kill, like,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like someone had been speeding and hit the
Speaker 1: deer and it died in the road. It looked like
Speaker 1: it had been eaten partially and it was crumpled, like
Speaker 1: the leg bones were broken. It was pretty graphic and
Speaker 1: like you could see like the blood on it was
Speaker 1: dark like it had been dead a while, you know,
Speaker 1: and the blood was dried, and it was kind of
Speaker 1: like the legs were kind of sticking up. And it's
Speaker 1: a narrow, like one lane dirt road, and so I
Speaker 1: had to like, I'm in this car and I have
Speaker 1: to like kind of drive over the side to get
Speaker 1: around it. And I'm looking out the side passenger window
Speaker 1: at this at the deer feet, and it was pretty gruesome,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, just like what the heck? Like that
Speaker 1: was not there thirty minutes ago, And so I couldn't
Speaker 1: make I thought maybe a mountain lion had a kill
Speaker 1: and was moving it for some reason, but it was
Speaker 1: it was crumpled, I mean, like the legs were broken,
Speaker 1: and so it was just bizarre.
Speaker 3: And so I went into town and it was.
Speaker 1: Just like, Okay, I don't I have no idea how
Speaker 1: that got there or what happened. So I'm in town.
Speaker 1: The festival went on, and as I was driving back home,
Speaker 1: you know, at this point, it's dark, and I thought
Speaker 1: I should drive down that road to see if it's
Speaker 1: still there. And then I thought that's insane. But then
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have to know, I have to know,
Speaker 1: and so I did. I drove down that road with
Speaker 1: the doors locked, windows up, and it was gone.
Speaker 3: So I can't explain it.
Speaker 1: You know, I've heard stories now that bigfoot. I've heard
Speaker 1: people say they can catch the deer and like smack
Speaker 1: them against a tree, like catch them by the legs.
Speaker 1: Could it have been a kill, I don't know, but
Speaker 1: it was just the most bizarre thing that I've seen
Speaker 1: right around here.
Speaker 2: Have you seen other strange animal kills like that?
Speaker 1: No, not like that.
Speaker 2: There was a story from around there, and I'll completely
Speaker 2: butcher it if I tried to give details. But these
Speaker 2: two kids, I don't remember if they gone swimming or
Speaker 2: fishing or what the dell was there out wandering around
Speaker 2: being kids and they saw what they told their parents
Speaker 2: was a bigfoot, and it was carrying a dead calf
Speaker 2: over its shoulders, and it looked pretty startled. I don't
Speaker 2: think it was expecting to run into any humans at
Speaker 2: the time or whatever. But that was right around that
Speaker 2: same areas like Beinger and one of the places that
Speaker 2: I went that was like really really it just had
Speaker 2: a bad feel to it. It was just the air,
Speaker 2: the atmosphere was very thick. There was some a power
Speaker 2: line right away there, and there had been sightings in
Speaker 2: the area and everything, and we experienced some stuff. But
Speaker 2: there was a dog with us at the time that
Speaker 2: was acting very strangely and actually bit somebody that was
Speaker 2: with us. Yeah, it was pretty pretty strange. Do you
Speaker 2: find that there's any aggressive stories from that area that
Speaker 2: you're at.
Speaker 1: I have not heard any, certainly, never experienced any. I know.
Speaker 3: Opposite of that.
Speaker 1: I know, like over in southeast Oklahoma in the area
Speaker 1: where we go a lot, I've heard stories of older
Speaker 1: people there talking about, you know, monkey man, and I've
Speaker 1: heard of older people telling, like, you know, bigfoot researchers,
Speaker 1: then monkeys won't hurt you.
Speaker 3: So I guess, if anything, I've heard the opposite.
Speaker 1: But then I've also heard warnings from Native friends and
Speaker 1: relatives saying don't mess with them. Like I had a
Speaker 1: good friend of mine who I used to go out,
Speaker 1: you know, bigfooting with, and she was Shanna Rapahoe. She
Speaker 1: was a rapa ho and she said there was an
Speaker 1: area where they would put out food for them, and
Speaker 1: she was always told as a child, like never go
Speaker 1: near there because they could get you so without I
Speaker 1: don't know if that was meant literally. I mean, I
Speaker 1: would think it's certainly possible. I mean, we'd be a
Speaker 1: good food source, especially historically.
Speaker 2: Do you think they're a predator, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I would assume they're omnivorous. You know, you hear so
Speaker 1: many stories of people going missing, and children going missing,
Speaker 1: and elderly people going missing. I think it's possible that
Speaker 1: if you know, a child was lost in the woods
Speaker 1: and a bigfoot came along, that would be an easy dinner.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of horrific, but it's possible.
Speaker 2: So earlier you were talking about the people talking about
Speaker 2: mind speak for instance, and whenever it comes to this subject.
Speaker 2: I'm very fortunate with what I do now because I
Speaker 2: just host a podcast and let people come on and
Speaker 2: talk about stuff. So that's easy for me. I just
Speaker 2: provide the platform, let them talk, share their experiences, their opinions,
Speaker 2: all that good stuff. But back whenever I was doing
Speaker 2: field investigations, it's kind of a different mindset. How do
Speaker 2: you deal with all the noise, all the difference in
Speaker 2: opinions and stories and they can do this and they
Speaker 2: can't do that. How do you kind of keep your
Speaker 2: blinders on and stay focused? And where do you kind
Speaker 2: of draw the line at with that stuff? Because you're
Speaker 2: from an area where there are some amazing and remarkable
Speaker 2: stories that come from very honest people with multiple witnesses
Speaker 2: to some of those stories. Do you think personally there's
Speaker 2: anything beyond our understanding going on or is it just
Speaker 2: something that has kind of taken on this mystique because
Speaker 2: we don't really understand it.
Speaker 1: I think the latter, I mean, and that's my opinion.
Speaker 1: I just I've never I've never experienced anything even remotely
Speaker 1: like that. I don't know of anyone who has personally,
Speaker 1: So it's I would say, it's just outside of the
Speaker 1: realm of my experience and knowledge. You know, if someone
Speaker 1: I knew well were to tell me that they'd experienced it,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I would disbelieve them, but it's just nothing.
Speaker 1: It's outside of my experience.
Speaker 2: I grew up around Native Americans. I'm not Native American myself.
Speaker 2: I've had lots of Native American friends still do. There
Speaker 2: are definitely some things that most of the world would
Speaker 2: consider supernatural or paranormal, that Native Americans consider very real. Yes,
Speaker 2: but I never heard them tell any stories about Bigfoot
Speaker 2: and put Bigfoot in that category. But I did hear
Speaker 2: a lot of stories about what I would consider a
Speaker 2: form of habituation, Yes, where the Bigfoot got comfortable around people,
Speaker 2: especially these smaller Native American communities and stuff, especially around
Speaker 2: the area of Concho. Did you hear those type stories?
Speaker 2: I guess specifically, what I'm asking about is the Powow Grounds.
Speaker 2: I heard a lot of amazing things about the Powow Grounds.
Speaker 1: I've heard many, many stories about like feeding stations not
Speaker 1: quite the right word, but places locations at certain Pallew
Speaker 1: grounds where they would put out food for them. I've
Speaker 1: also heard a number of stories about white families, non
Speaker 1: Native families, having habituation situations where I know a white
Speaker 1: couple that lives near Fay where they do what they
Speaker 1: kind of like gift exchange. I guess like they'll put
Speaker 1: out marbles or shiny rocks, and I have seen footprints,
Speaker 1: have heard bizarre vocalizations, whistles. They did have a cow
Speaker 1: that was found dead that was kind of mangled in
Speaker 1: a strange way. I didn't see that myself, but had
Speaker 1: heard the story from them. I've heard of another one.
Speaker 1: My friend, the tribal police officer, had heard a story
Speaker 1: from I want to say. It was up near Watonga
Speaker 1: where there was a white family and he had been there,
Speaker 1: probably not to get the story quite right. He'd been
Speaker 1: there to like serve papers and got out of his
Speaker 1: car and smelled a very you know, bad smell and
Speaker 1: asked the family about it, and they said, you, basically,
Speaker 1: that's a bigfoot that lives near us. We you know,
Speaker 1: we leave it alone. It leaves us alone. And he
Speaker 1: was like, you guys are crazy, you know, like you're
Speaker 1: it's like feeding the bear, you know, like you shouldn't
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah. So yeah, I've definitely heard stories of habituation, both,
Speaker 1: you know, with native and non native people out here.
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on the Casino story. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's become one of the most famous stories in the
Speaker 2: bigfoot world.
Speaker 1: I think it's I believe it because I know a
Speaker 1: man who was a security guard there who said he
Speaker 1: saw the same thing. He walked out one night he
Speaker 1: was working and he walked outside, he was a security guard,
Speaker 1: walked outside to smoke and saw a bigfoot at the
Speaker 1: dumpster and said he had been told his entire life
Speaker 1: stories about bigfoot, you know, as a Native person, and
Speaker 1: just never knew if it was real or not. And
Speaker 1: he said he stepped outside, he was smoking, looked over,
Speaker 1: saw this bigfoot that was taller than the dumpster, like
Speaker 1: quite a bit taller. And he was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: they're real. And he said he went in and you know,
Speaker 1: he became very interested in it. I met him, you know,
Speaker 1: at a bigfoot event and it's small community out here.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of I know people who know
Speaker 1: him are related to him, so I know he's a
Speaker 1: good guy. And he said he became very interested. This
Speaker 1: was after that video supposed you know, was supposedly taken,
Speaker 1: and so he went to the tribal council at the
Speaker 1: time and demanded to see it. He said to the
Speaker 1: tribal member, it's my right, you know, it's this is
Speaker 1: my heritage. It's my right to see this. And they
Speaker 1: told him that it had been destroyed, and he said
Speaker 1: he didn't believe him, but you know, he knew what
Speaker 1: he saw. So and then Alton Higgins if you know him,
Speaker 1: he you know, I know him. He and his wife
Speaker 1: really well. And he had a siding right out here.
Speaker 1: Kurt Stanley had another siding out at Concho. My friend
Speaker 1: who I used to, you know, go around with a lot,
Speaker 1: Lou she's had sightings out there. You know, she's a tribal,
Speaker 1: tribal member, hundred percent believe it. Hopefully they didn't destroy
Speaker 1: it because I understand why they would, you know, not
Speaker 1: wanting a lot of attention, not wanting people running around
Speaker 1: with guns trying to shoot it. But but I would
Speaker 1: hope for everyone's sake that they didn't keep a copy
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: I heard that they threatened all the employees to stop
Speaker 2: talking about it. Could be, I mean, you just brought
Speaker 2: up a story something that'll a lot of people don't understand.
Speaker 2: Whenever it comes to the casino video. Is it wasn't
Speaker 2: just a one single event that happened at that casino.
Speaker 2: There was other sightings at the casino itself besides the footage,
Speaker 2: and you just talked about another one. So yeah, that's
Speaker 2: pretty interesting. I understand, uh, you know, the idea of
Speaker 2: them raiding a dumpster. It still just blows my mind
Speaker 2: that they their behavior is just so brazen in that
Speaker 2: part of the country. It's almost like they're used to people.
Speaker 2: There was some small town out there out that ways
Speaker 2: that actually had like a town meeting about it because
Speaker 2: they were coming through the town and like raiding the
Speaker 2: trash cans at night and almost got to the point
Speaker 2: of becoming a nuisance and the whole town had like
Speaker 2: an actual town hall meeting to discuss what to do about.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've heard just east of here, you know,
Speaker 1: it near Stinchcombe, which Stinchcombe for people not familiar with
Speaker 1: the area is it's a wetland at the north end
Speaker 1: of Lake Oberholser, which is now I mean Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: and Bethany have just grown up around it. And a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago there was a story of someone
Speaker 1: who worked at a donut shop right at the northeast
Speaker 1: corner of Lake Oberholser, right where Stenchcombe feeds into the
Speaker 1: lake which Stinchcombe comes is fed by the North Canadian River,
Speaker 1: and there's a donut shop. There's a little drainage ditch
Speaker 1: that runs from Stenchcombe but kind of into town along
Speaker 1: thirty ninth. You know, it's actually Route sixty six right there.
Speaker 1: And supposedly someone at the donut shop early one morning
Speaker 1: was taken out the trash and sa someone standing there
Speaker 1: at the dumpster like digging in the dumpster. And at
Speaker 1: first it sounds crazy because if you're if you're driving there,
Speaker 1: you're in the middle of the oklahom A city. I mean,
Speaker 1: you think there's no way. But when you go back
Speaker 1: there behind that doughnut shop which is still there, and
Speaker 1: you go look at the dumpster right behind that as
Speaker 1: a drainage ditch, and if you were hungry and had
Speaker 1: been living in the woods, which is a pretty densely
Speaker 1: wooded area around Stinchcombe all the way up the North
Speaker 1: Canadian River goes straight up near where I live up
Speaker 1: you know, Fort Concho el Reno, I mean, you could
Speaker 1: very easily be a large animal and just follow that
Speaker 1: drainage ditch to a dumpster and smell food and get
Speaker 1: into it like it. When you start looking at the terrain,
Speaker 1: you know, from an animal's perspective, it's not that crazy.
Speaker 2: Whatever you go out and research, do you do that
Speaker 2: locally or do you go to other parts of Oklahoma?
Speaker 1: Mostly I go to Southeast Oklahoma. That's just where myself
Speaker 1: and most my friends are familiar with. Also Southern Oklahoma also,
Speaker 1: you know, with Marvin and John and Jerry and Mike.
Speaker 1: But Southeast Oklahoma is where I go most often. And
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's a place rich in experiences
Speaker 1: there because it's I kind of think of it.
Speaker 3: It's almost like fish in a barrel.
Speaker 1: It's not like it's a fic Northwest, Like you could
Speaker 1: be out for weeks and it's just so vast that
Speaker 1: there could be one hundred big foot running around and
Speaker 1: you'd never cross paths with them. I think the really
Speaker 1: conducive habitat in southeast Oklahoma. You know that part of Arkansas,
Speaker 1: that region is more condensed, So I think just statistically,
Speaker 1: your chances of running into something are higher, And I
Speaker 1: think where we go is probably pretty close to where
Speaker 1: they live.
Speaker 2: What kind of things are you experiencing when are you
Speaker 2: go out there?
Speaker 1: It's funny, it's the same things everybody else does. Like
Speaker 1: there's nothing that is just I don't have any stories
Speaker 1: that are just incredible that it's the same thing everybody
Speaker 1: else does, which to me, that is the story that
Speaker 1: so many people go out there, so many people. You know,
Speaker 1: we will hear mouth pops at night, will hear wood knocks,
Speaker 1: will hear howls. There are places that I've gone with.
Speaker 1: I'm in a hiking group that's based out of Oklahoma City,
Speaker 1: and I love I love camping over there legitimately anyways,
Speaker 1: and there's some great hiking areas, but it's also very
Speaker 1: convenient because there's a lot of Bigfoot activity. So we've
Speaker 1: been out there in that area hearing you know what
Speaker 1: sounds like. One night we had something that sounded like
Speaker 1: a giant rock being thrown against another rock. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was not a gunshot.
Speaker 3: It came from a direction. There were no people out there.
Speaker 1: We've heard, you know, not just me, but people I've
Speaker 1: been camping with who were just from the tanking group.
Speaker 1: We didn't even I had nothing to do with bigfoot,
Speaker 1: and people the next morning would say there.
Speaker 3: Was a person walking through our camp last night.
Speaker 1: That's happened on several occasions where people just absolutely insist
Speaker 1: there was a person walking. I'm like, you know, we're
Speaker 1: almost an hour's drive from Calohena, I mean, like what
Speaker 1: person would who Okay, who was going to be stupid
Speaker 1: enough to be in Southeast Oklahoma walking in someone's camp
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. I mean, you're going
Speaker 1: to get faced with a gun. I mean, who's going
Speaker 1: to be that stupid? Who would be out here? Who
Speaker 1: would do that? It just doesn't make sense. And that's
Speaker 1: happened multiple times when I've been there with non bigfoot friends,
Speaker 1: you know, just camping friends. Who and they've said, you know,
Speaker 1: one lady one night said she thought some of the
Speaker 1: guys were going to the bathroom outside her camp, and
Speaker 1: the next morning she was so angry because she's like,
Speaker 1: if you have to go after him in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night, why would you come near my tent?
Speaker 1: And the guys were like, we didn't get out of
Speaker 1: our tent last night, and she said she insisted that
Speaker 1: some person was walking around her tent and she was
Speaker 1: mad because she thought it was one of the guys.
Speaker 1: And another time, a guy said he heard a person
Speaker 1: walking through camp and he was convinced that it was
Speaker 1: someone else who was stealing our equipment. Who's going to
Speaker 1: do that? I mean, that's stupid, And so he was
Speaker 1: about to get up and confront them, and then thought
Speaker 1: maybe he shouldn't do that, you know, if it was
Speaker 1: someone who was armed. But the next morning was saying,
Speaker 1: you know he was when we got up, he was
Speaker 1: checking the camp because he was convinced that a person
Speaker 1: had been.
Speaker 3: There stealing our equipment, and nothing was stolen.
Speaker 1: Another time, in the same area, I had a friend
Speaker 1: was in a tent next to mine, and that was
Speaker 1: the night.
Speaker 3: I find that a lot of things happen.
Speaker 1: When you go into your tent and turn out the
Speaker 1: lights and get still, because then I think they think, oh,
Speaker 1: the coast is clear, we can start coming in to
Speaker 1: investigat like were their nightly entertainment or something, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I had laid awake for a while after
Speaker 1: the whole group went into our tents and were quiet,
Speaker 1: and I could hear mouthpops coming from both sides of
Speaker 1: the camp. And that next morning the friend who was
Speaker 1: in the tent next to mine said he was kind
Speaker 1: of freaked out, and he said, I think there was
Speaker 1: a person walking in our camp.
Speaker 3: And again, who's going to do that?
Speaker 1: There's no one near us there, I mean, who would
Speaker 1: be out here sneaking around doing that? Not that it
Speaker 1: couldn't happen, But who's that stupid? And then he said
Speaker 1: they were messing with the zipper, like they were messing
Speaker 1: with the zipper on his tent, and I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's probably a raccoon. And then you know, we've been
Speaker 1: out there and we've heard very clear woodknocks. I was
Speaker 1: hiking with, you know, another group of just hikers one night,
Speaker 1: and I was with a lady and two guys. We
Speaker 1: were on an I love night hiking and the two
Speaker 1: guys had gone ahead because they were looking at a
Speaker 1: rough road and the one guy wanted to see if
Speaker 1: his jeep could handle that road, so they were walking ahead,
Speaker 1: and the lady I was hiking with, I think, was
Speaker 1: a little bit freaked out. So we had stopped. We
Speaker 1: decided we'll stop and wait for the guys to come back.
Speaker 1: We won't keep hiking with them. And we were on
Speaker 1: a decline like the road was going it was a
Speaker 1: you know, a four wheel drive road was going downhill
Speaker 1: really steeply right where we were. So we were on
Speaker 1: the side of a hill and from that same elevation
Speaker 1: that we were, you know, a distance I'm guessing maybe
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred feet maybe away from us. We
Speaker 1: heard this loud crack of a wood knock and it
Speaker 1: freaked her out, and I'm like, oh, it's just a woodpecker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I want I didn't want her to get scared
Speaker 1: more to go back to camp. I want to and
Speaker 1: see what it was. And I asked some birding friends
Speaker 1: later like could that have been a woodpecker?
Speaker 3: And they laughed at me.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, things like that happen so often out
Speaker 1: in that area. It's just like when you start adding
Speaker 1: it all up and you add everybody else's stories up, like, okay,
Speaker 1: make it make sense. Tell me what that is if
Speaker 1: it if it's not a person walking through all these
Speaker 1: remote camps and all these locations, tell me what it is.
Speaker 1: What else would do that? You know, walkthrows? What else
Speaker 1: in the woods is going.
Speaker 3: To throw a rock?
Speaker 1: Bears, mountain lions, what else is going to do that?
Speaker 2: So I'm going to put you on the spot here,
Speaker 2: just want your opinion. But I mean, why aren't we
Speaker 2: getting them on trail cameras? Why aren't you getting thermal
Speaker 2: footage of them? I agree with everything you've said, especially
Speaker 2: the part about them coming in after you turn off
Speaker 2: the lights and everything and settled down for the night.
Speaker 2: But that would also imply that they were there watching
Speaker 2: you to begin with. And clearly they're good at hiding.
Speaker 2: So why are we having more luck?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I've I mean, I've
Speaker 1: heard stories like I know another I know two ladies
Speaker 1: who are primatologists, and one lady has a lot of
Speaker 1: experience in Africa working with great apes there and had
Speaker 1: worked with gorillas there, and you know, because I've talked
Speaker 1: to her about this and she excuse me. Her theory
Speaker 1: was she has seen gorillas, like where they've put out
Speaker 1: trail cameras in Gorilla habitat. I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: ir dot, I don't know, but she said, or if
Speaker 1: you know, the the lens on our game camera looks
Speaker 1: like an eye, and maybe that disturbs them. Maybe they
Speaker 1: they recognize that. I mean, like if you're in your
Speaker 1: living room and someone puts something in your living room
Speaker 1: that shouldn't be there you live there, You're going to
Speaker 1: notice it immediately. So maybe it's just they noticed something
Speaker 1: strange in their living room in their habitat. But she
Speaker 1: said in that location in Africa, gorillas would come up
Speaker 1: from behind the trail camera and rip them off the
Speaker 1: tree because you know, I don't know if they were
Speaker 1: angry because they were in dating their territory or what.
Speaker 1: But to me, I'm like, Okay, so there's some sort
Speaker 1: of precedent of a Grade eight being aftited by this
Speaker 1: type of object, this man made object in their territory.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's that I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, you've named quite a few names that ring
Speaker 2: a bell with me of incredibly intelligent people that I've
Speaker 2: been doing this for a really long time, and so
Speaker 2: amazing things have happened that area x over the years.
Speaker 2: It's just so bizarre how they just always seem to
Speaker 2: stay is one step ahead, or how quickly they figure
Speaker 2: out whenever we're trying to trick them into doing something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, I mean, my opinion is they're
Speaker 1: just very intelligent. And I think one thing, like with
Speaker 1: an AWAC, I believe one hundred percent that the apes
Speaker 1: there recognized our behavior as hunting behavior. They knew we
Speaker 1: were hunting. I mean, because if you're out deer hunting
Speaker 1: or you know, sneaking around turkey hunting, your body language
Speaker 1: is different than if you're just taking through the woods.
Speaker 1: So I think they're able to recognize like, okay, these
Speaker 1: human things are up to something, you know, whether they
Speaker 1: realize we're after them or not, I don't know. But
Speaker 1: I think any animal, like you know, I have cats
Speaker 1: and horses and donkeys, and if I behave like a predator,
Speaker 1: they instantly recognize that. And so I've had the most
Speaker 1: luck being out in the woods just acting like a
Speaker 1: dumb camper, like making my presence known, you know, doing
Speaker 1: loud laughing, telling stories, using lights, and just are usually
Speaker 1: our intent like when we go out, or my intent
Speaker 1: sneakly when I'm out with you know camp, you know,
Speaker 1: hiking groups, is just to make a lot of noise,
Speaker 1: make our presence known, and hopefully drag something back to camp,
Speaker 1: like get its attention and bring it back to camp.
Speaker 1: I just I think they are masters of their environment,
Speaker 1: and I think they're pretty intelligent.
Speaker 2: So what is your like main goal with all of this.
Speaker 2: Are you trying to prove the exist to the world
Speaker 2: or have a siding or what.
Speaker 1: Anymore? I don't I don't know. I believed in the
Speaker 1: n A w a C Mission, but now I I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think I would like to see one,
Speaker 1: just to know for sure for myself, But then anymore,
Speaker 1: like the more I'm out the more I wonder if
Speaker 1: we shouldn't maybe just leave them alone, you know, like
Speaker 1: go out, maybe experience them, maybe see them, and maybe
Speaker 1: just leave them alone. I don't know, You're in a
Speaker 1: tough spot.
Speaker 2: That's a tough place to be mentally whenever it comes
Speaker 2: to this stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's just you know that
Speaker 2: the researcher unsaid rules, you know, where you can't really
Speaker 2: commit to certain things and you have to be politically
Speaker 2: correct in a lot of ways whenever it comes to
Speaker 2: this as a researcher, and you do eventually at least
Speaker 2: I did reach a point where it's like, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is not working. What I'm what I'm doing is just
Speaker 2: not working. And I seem to have a lot more
Speaker 2: luck whenever I left all the equipment at home and
Speaker 2: just yeah, quit trying so hard.
Speaker 1: I think just being out there, I mean, just doing
Speaker 1: your own thing. I mean you can try and try
Speaker 1: and try for you know, a week at a time
Speaker 1: or more and absolutely nothing will happen. And it's to
Speaker 1: me like the worst case at the end of the
Speaker 1: week or however long you're out there, is you just
Speaker 1: had a good time hiking and camping. You're out in
Speaker 1: the woods, I mean, you're not at a lot like
Speaker 1: the craziest thing I ever had happen. Probably my best
Speaker 1: personal story was a time an X where something was
Speaker 1: breathing outside my tent. And not that I don't think
Speaker 1: they could be dangerous, but I think, you know, if
Speaker 1: if something was there and it wanted to kill me,
Speaker 1: I'd be dead right now. I wouldn't even be here,
Speaker 1: because absolutely something was right outside my tent. But I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think once you've experienced that, it's just
Speaker 1: like I can't get them up.
Speaker 2: Okay. For instance, that goes right into what I just said.
Speaker 2: So what was outside your tent? Jody?
Speaker 1: This?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: So this was It was our last night on that
Speaker 1: particular trip, and I remember Chad and Alton were there.
Speaker 1: I can't remember who else was there on that trip.
Speaker 1: It had been we'd had our tents out in front
Speaker 1: of this cabin that we had, and the last night
Speaker 1: we were there, it was raining like crazy. So Chad
Speaker 1: and I each moved our tent under this area called
Speaker 1: a hooch. It was just like a carport basically. I
Speaker 1: think Alton was sleeping on the covered porch of the cabin.
Speaker 3: So we had had our.
Speaker 1: Tents out, you know, in an open space, and because
Speaker 1: of the rain, we'd moved them and so I was
Speaker 1: under this hooch. My tent was i don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: six feet away from Chad's tent, and I was at
Speaker 1: like the northwest corner of camp, closest to like this
Speaker 1: pond that was there, and we'd gone to bed, and
Speaker 1: I was so everybody had gone to bed, and I'm
Speaker 1: laying in the tent, kind of disappointed that not much
Speaker 1: had happened on that trip, and just you know, not
Speaker 1: really questioning being there, but just like, okay, it was
Speaker 1: a good week. I mean, it was finally went higen,
Speaker 1: you know, had a lot of fun. But nothing happened.
Speaker 1: And then I heard what I thought was like a snake.
Speaker 1: It was just this sliding sound, like a snake sliding
Speaker 1: in the grass. And I was hearing this and didn't
Speaker 1: think a lot of it, and then it was just
Speaker 1: kind of getting closer to my tent and I just
Speaker 1: I'm like, what slides a snake? It's a snake. I'm
Speaker 1: in my tent. If it's a copperhead, it can't get in,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I'm listening to this and it's
Speaker 1: getting closer to me, and I'm like, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a snake. And then I hear this breathing. And I've
Speaker 1: heard other people talk about this on podcast and again
Speaker 1: it's that thing, you know, a million people saying the
Speaker 1: same thing. There's got to be something to it. And
Speaker 1: this breathing was kind of like a Darth Vader, just
Speaker 1: like a I mean, just like this deep, deep, very
Speaker 1: very slow breathing, like slower than normal normal human breathing.
Speaker 1: So that freakda. You know, i was starting to freak
Speaker 1: out a little because I'm like, what the heck is that?
Speaker 2: Where was it coming from?
Speaker 1: Like right outside outside my tent, kind of like northwest
Speaker 1: of me, like on the ground.
Speaker 3: It was like my level.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And so I'm hearing this and at first I'm questioning
Speaker 1: if I'm really asleep or awake or you know, am
Speaker 1: I really hearing this? I don't know.
Speaker 3: And as it goes on, I'm like, hu, percent, I'm
Speaker 3: hearing this and it.
Speaker 1: Was just this deep, super super slow breathing and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: that is absolutely an animal. That's not no human, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean would be that big to breathe that slow
Speaker 1: and have such a deep, raspy sound, like it would
Speaker 1: be a giant human with horrible bronchitis or something. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, a bear, I don't think we'll do that,
Speaker 1: because a bear would be tearing through camp looking for food.
Speaker 1: A mountain lion, I don't think would sound like that.
Speaker 1: A hog would be tearing around making noise. It's too
Speaker 1: big for a raccoon. So I'm sitting there like, okay,
Speaker 1: should I be freaking out right now?
Speaker 3: Like I'm kind of freaking.
Speaker 1: Out right now, and and I remember having the thought like,
Speaker 1: this is why I'm here, this is what I came
Speaker 1: here for, if that's really what it is. And then
Speaker 1: I'm thinking it maybe it's just Chad snort. So I
Speaker 1: kind of I was kind of whisper calling out to
Speaker 1: what Chad Chad, and I could hear him the opposite
Speaker 1: direction to me, to the south, kind of snoring in
Speaker 1: his tent, so I know for a fact it wasn't him.
Speaker 1: So I'm hearing this raspy sound and finally I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is freaking insane, stupid, what am I doing? So
Speaker 1: I turn on my headlamp and I sit up and
Speaker 1: I'm reaching for my rifle and I'm reaching for the
Speaker 1: hand good and just like there's something freaking outside my tent,
Speaker 1: like okay, I've hit my limit, and so I'm scuffling around,
Speaker 1: got the light on, reaching for you know, weapons, and
Speaker 1: when I stopped moving and listened again, it was gone.
Speaker 1: So I have no idea what it was. I've never
Speaker 1: heard it since. And it's one of those things like
Speaker 1: when I came home after that trip, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: never freaking going back down there again. That's stupid. That
Speaker 1: was crazy. And then like the next night, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: soon can I get back down there? How can I
Speaker 1: get that to happen again. I mean, it's just it
Speaker 1: divides logic. But I yeah, but that was just the
Speaker 1: one time. I have no idea what it was. You know,
Speaker 1: there's no known animal that I can think of that
Speaker 1: would have done that. It wasn't a person, what the heck.
Speaker 2: But other people have experienced very similar things in the
Speaker 2: backfoot world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and when I hear those stories, you know, I
Speaker 1: think it was maybe a few weeks or months or
Speaker 1: so after that happened.
Speaker 3: And it's one of those things like you almost push
Speaker 3: it to the back of your mind, like that couldn't
Speaker 3: have been real.
Speaker 1: Like if I tell even Bigfoot fronts, They're going to
Speaker 1: think I'm crazy or they'll think I'm making it up.
Speaker 1: But then I hear on podcasts people saying almost identical stories,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yep, you know that, just that validates it.
Speaker 2: So are there any other unexplained phenomenon or cryptids that
Speaker 2: you think have some credence?
Speaker 1: The lights, I've a number of times I've seen weird
Speaker 1: lights I have, you know, with other people. I have
Speaker 1: no idea what they are in my mind my opinion,
Speaker 1: there's probably some logical explanation. I've seen them. I don't
Speaker 1: know what they are, but that's the only other thing
Speaker 1: I've experienced.
Speaker 2: Have any of those been seen a area X?
Speaker 1: Yes, and we were told not to talk about it.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3: Maybe it's just.
Speaker 1: Because it's something unknown, not that big, but aren't unknown.
Speaker 1: But maybe we don't want people to negate the evidence
Speaker 1: that is.
Speaker 2: Out there, so we just withhold transparency. Yeah, I mean, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I'm going to I'm going to use
Speaker 2: the O word orbs. I'm not saying orbs are connected
Speaker 2: to Bigfoot. I don't know if they are not. I
Speaker 2: think that Bigfoot has been saying for a very long
Speaker 2: time and talked about in different ways all over the world,
Speaker 2: and I think the same thing. It's true about orbs.
Speaker 2: It just kind of I don't know, It's just one
Speaker 2: of those things I disagree with whenever it comes to
Speaker 2: researchers slash investigators, slash whatever. I mean, if you're really
Speaker 2: trying to be by the book and be scientific, you
Speaker 2: need to report all your observations. Whether they fit in
Speaker 2: the box or not. It doesn't matter. Like it's just
Speaker 2: kind of weird. I mean a lot of organizations have
Speaker 2: been like that over the years, though it wasn't until
Speaker 2: the disclosure stuff happened that, you know, Matt Moneymaker finally
Speaker 2: came out and was like, oh, yeah, we've been seeing
Speaker 2: orbs all the time over the years. Well, okay, why
Speaker 2: didn't you mention that. I don't know, it's just such
Speaker 2: a weird phenomenon. I have a best friend that has
Speaker 2: seen some kind of strange light in southeastern Oklahoma, so
Speaker 2: apparently it's a pretty common occurrence down there for some reason.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's you know, the quartz in
Speaker 2: the ground, or if there's some sort of connection geologically
Speaker 2: that causes the phenomenon, whatever it is. I don't have
Speaker 2: any explanation either, but it's just interesting that so many
Speaker 2: bigfoot researchers and enthusiasts have seen these lights seen them.
Speaker 1: I've been multiple trips, multiple places, different people idea what
Speaker 1: they are, no idea, but that goes I mean, those
Speaker 1: stories go back so long. I mean, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I have a friend's dad who's he's passed now, but
Speaker 1: he said, you know, he grew up in Poto and
Speaker 1: as a little boy, their entertainment sometimes was to drive
Speaker 1: out in the country and certain areas and look at
Speaker 1: the spook lights.
Speaker 2: It's crezy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and it wasn't It was just a phenomenon.
Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't know what it was. They weren't
Speaker 1: even thinking about bigfoot or ghosts or anything. It was
Speaker 1: just like, well look at this cool spook light. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never heard it connected to anything. It was
Speaker 2: its own category, and then it seemed to get connected
Speaker 2: to I think it's I've talked about this a little
Speaker 2: bit before. Whatever you're out there looking for, that's what
Speaker 2: you connect them to.
Speaker 1: I love spooky stuff, you know, all the TV shows,
Speaker 1: you know, YouTube videos. I mean, I love stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I don't have to have it be real to think
Speaker 1: it's fun, you know. But to me, Bigfoot is I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I think eventually people will look back on
Speaker 1: us and just think it's silly that we didn't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, just like people used to make fun of
Speaker 1: people who said they saw a big, giant, white and
Speaker 1: black bear in the mountains of China, and now everybody
Speaker 1: knows about pandas. I think it's something you know, in
Speaker 1: the future, hopefully eventually we'll be known. You know, you
Speaker 1: asked earlier about, you know, how to kind of deal
Speaker 1: with people who have different beliefs, you know, about the
Speaker 1: mind speaking stuff like that. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: the Bigfoot community is really so small that, you know,
Speaker 1: even if I don't totally agree with somebody's opinions, it's
Speaker 1: just the opportunity to talk to someone else about the
Speaker 1: subject is valuable. I mean, whether we completely have the
Speaker 1: same opinions or not. It's just I think that there's a
Speaker 1: lot of benefit in just supporting the community as a whole.
Speaker 2: I mean, why do we have to have the same
Speaker 2: opinions on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: If we talked about stuff outside of Bigfoot with one another,
Speaker 2: I think we had learned very quickly that a lot
Speaker 2: of our opinions are different. So yeah, yeah, I never
Speaker 2: really I guess I got into the fights, you know,
Speaker 2: the online flame wars back in the day and everything
Speaker 2: over it. But then I kind of got older and
Speaker 2: realized that, Okay, well I don't really know anything either,
Speaker 2: So who am I to tell somebody else they're wrong?
Speaker 2: I can only talk about what I've experienced.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and who I mean? None of us know, I mean,
Speaker 1: or maybe some people do and we don't realize it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but I think there's just, you know, statistically,
Speaker 1: there's so few of us.
Speaker 3: Who are you, I know, this passionate about it.
Speaker 1: We need to support each other when we can.
Speaker 2: If you've had your own encounter with Bigfoot, dog Man
Speaker 2: or something else you can't explain, like to share your
Speaker 2: story on the podcast, email me at Bigfoot Crossroads at
Speaker 2: gmail dot com. Check out the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com.
Speaker 2: You can find links to social media, past episodes, merchandise,
Speaker 2: everything you need all in one place. And until next time,
Speaker 2: remember there's something in the woods,