Speaker 1: Hello. I'm Jack Smiley Jr.
Speaker 2: From San Juan Gista, California.
Speaker 1: I played golf at San Juan Oaks. Hi.
Speaker 2: This is Thomas Dallas from Bradenton, Florida, and I play
Speaker 2: at IMG Golf Course. This is Golf Smarter episode number
Speaker 2: one one five Insider Baseball thread. I may or may
Speaker 2: not have asked Charlie when we played Tiger if I
Speaker 2: could give him the closer signal when he's sitting in
Speaker 2: the box and see if he would come out and
Speaker 2: put against his dad. And we beat him, but he
Speaker 2: didn't want to put his dad to shame on ESPN.
Speaker 2: But I mean, you think about how amazing of a format,
Speaker 2: like even what the Father Son PNC is. There's so
Speaker 2: many of these type of events that Tgl's format and
Speaker 2: the style of play could lend itself to. The shot
Speaker 2: clock was fun like if you're in the stadium, everybody's chanting,
Speaker 2: like in a basketball game when there was ten seconds left,
Speaker 2: everybody's running around trying to get the crowd riled up.
Speaker 2: It feels like the first he at the Ryder Cup
Speaker 2: for almost two hours. I mean, you can be last.
Speaker 2: There was no signs held up that says please be
Speaker 2: quiet or we're t and off. When we played New York,
Speaker 2: I swear they flew down Long Island into a fans
Speaker 2: section and they had no problem bringing the Bethpage Black
Speaker 2: noise to us at TGL. It riled our guys up
Speaker 2: and made it so much fun.
Speaker 1: Expanding the future of indoor golf, home simulators and TGL
Speaker 1: with Ben Helmraff. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips
Speaker 1: and insights from great golf minds to help you lower
Speaker 1: your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host,
Speaker 1: Fred Green. Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast. Ben.
Speaker 2: Hey, Fred, how's it going.
Speaker 1: It's going great today, and this is going to be
Speaker 1: a fun conversation because we're talking about something that kind
Speaker 1: of happened a while ago, but we're waiting fingers crossed
Speaker 1: in great anticipation for another season of TG and that's
Speaker 1: part of what we're going to talk about with you
Speaker 1: today because you have an important role in the retail world.
Speaker 1: To introduce yourself in that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I I work for PGA Tour Superstore, the
Speaker 2: leading golf retailer. We are in almost thirty states and growing.
Speaker 2: So for those not familiar with us, we are are
Speaker 2: the kind of official retail partner of the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: So super excited that in that realm, I oversee our
Speaker 2: hard goods, all things clubs, accessories, basically anything related to golf,
Speaker 2: non apparel and footwear, and that includes a lot of
Speaker 2: a lot of the growth categories I think we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about, like simulation and you know, speaking of
Speaker 2: TGL golf. So really excited and really excited to be
Speaker 2: on today to talk about it.
Speaker 1: What does it mean exactly that your official partner of
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we have a licensee partnership with the tour.
Speaker 2: So as you see on our our doors and on
Speaker 2: everything we've we've got the PGA Tour name associated with us,
Speaker 2: which really hope you know it. Ultimately it creates trust
Speaker 2: for the customer. It showcases that were the primary spot
Speaker 2: that the tour trust to carry any and all things
Speaker 2: carried or played on tours. So that's what that's kind
Speaker 2: of what I mean my term partnership.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand, Okay, which is pretty awesome to have
Speaker 1: that association, but what does that How does that separate
Speaker 1: you from like Worldwide Golf that has bought every retail
Speaker 1: outlet of everything in golf all over the country. How
Speaker 1: does it separate you as far as do you carry
Speaker 1: products that are associated with a tour that you can't
Speaker 1: find in other retailers.
Speaker 2: Not necessarily we have something that are specific to us,
Speaker 2: but we actually kind of stay out of the call
Speaker 2: it for lack of a better word, owned band. We
Speaker 2: want to carry what is played on tour. We want
Speaker 2: the best product in the store. There are some things
Speaker 2: that we carry that others don't for whatever reason. That
Speaker 2: may be some of that actually being in some of
Speaker 2: the simulation space some of the other areas. You know,
Speaker 2: our big differentiator you're asking for it is we have
Speaker 2: a very large format store, whereas a lot of our
Speaker 2: competition tends to be smaller. Our average store is probably
Speaker 2: around thirty five thirty eight thousand square feet. Oh wow,
Speaker 2: I would think more like a Dick Sporting Goods versus
Speaker 2: some of the other golf retailers that are in the
Speaker 2: specialty space are more like a you know, eight to
Speaker 2: twelve thousand square foot smaller retail box. So it allows
Speaker 2: us to carry the broadest assortment in golf and really
Speaker 2: be able to capitalize on all segments.
Speaker 1: So interesting, So I'm in northern California. I've seen one
Speaker 1: PGA superstore in an airport, huh, you know, and it
Speaker 1: was like it was great because there was a bought
Speaker 1: a great shut from there. It was on sale and
Speaker 1: I still wear it and about it years ago. And
Speaker 1: then the closest outlet or the closest store to me
Speaker 1: in northern California is about an hour away. It's in
Speaker 1: the East Bay and Dublin, California.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the retail and airport is actually not us
Speaker 2: really license seed partner of the tour.
Speaker 1: That's a PGA store.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's PGA Tour Shop. So it's a partner.
Speaker 2: But we are in Dublin. We're also in Cooper, Tino
Speaker 2: and East Palo Alto, so hopefully any one of those
Speaker 2: three and for all the things you might not want
Speaker 2: to drive an hour for, we have a broader assortment online,
Speaker 2: so promise we will fill any and all of your
Speaker 2: golf needs. Frets.
Speaker 1: So ah, the Internet saved so many retailers and knock
Speaker 1: so many out, so let's see your function. There is
Speaker 1: everything other than retail hard good stuff. But we're going
Speaker 1: to really talk about in homes simulators today, and it
Speaker 1: seems with TGL and maybe I missed something before that,
Speaker 1: but in home simulator and simulator golf, virtual golf, let's
Speaker 1: call it golf. I still see it as golf. Virtual
Speaker 1: golf is a video game, but golf simulators, and that
Speaker 1: seems to really be growing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's been booming well before TG I
Speaker 2: think it really took off. COVID helped a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know, over the last five years, the landscape
Speaker 2: of golf has completely changed. We brought a lot of
Speaker 2: new people into the game. I think with that, the
Speaker 2: evolution of the format of golf kind of had to
Speaker 2: or needed to change a bit as you bring more
Speaker 2: non maybe traditional golfers into the game to play it.
Speaker 2: And not only that, access has become harder, right, I
Speaker 2: mean in late twenty and early twenty one, when most
Speaker 2: other activities were shut down or golf courses it was
Speaker 2: tough to get tea times. So you saw a push
Speaker 2: into kind of the off course realm, whether it was
Speaker 2: a top golf or a simulator company. And then quickly
Speaker 2: I think people realized, you know, to get out on
Speaker 2: a Saturday and play and leave your family or whatever
Speaker 2: it might be, you have to drive to and from
Speaker 2: your warm up session, maybe a nineteenth whole visit afterwards.
Speaker 2: Next thing you know, you're out for seven hours to
Speaker 2: get through the round. And in the simulator world, you
Speaker 2: and I are playing eighteen holes at Pebble Beach in
Speaker 2: whatever cold city we might be wishing we were at
Speaker 2: Pebble Beach, and we're doing it in sixty to ninety minutes.
Speaker 2: So and you're teeing off at eight pm, exactly right.
Speaker 1: And let's not forget that.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. So I mean, any climate, anytime, anything,
Speaker 2: you don't have to wait on the tea time, there's
Speaker 2: nobody in front of you playing slow, So all of
Speaker 2: that aspect. I love how you called it out. It's
Speaker 2: not virtual golf, it's golf. It's just golf in a
Speaker 2: different sense. And we're really bulow it. We're really hoping
Speaker 2: that it continues to grow. It was crazy talking to
Speaker 2: one of our vendor partners who helps with junior clubs
Speaker 2: and kind of the growth of the game. And there
Speaker 2: was actually a kid that played in one of the
Speaker 2: tournaments that is now going on a D one scholarship
Speaker 2: and had never played an off course round before he
Speaker 2: got to one of the championship tournaments. So the whole
Speaker 2: experience that this kid had in golf was in a
Speaker 2: virtual world. So you know that whole evolution of the
Speaker 2: game is only growing. It helps bring kids in. There's
Speaker 2: an easier way to play. You don't have that, you know.
Speaker 2: It's funny. Everybody's got the first t envy of wanting
Speaker 2: the newest product and everything else. But there's also that
Speaker 2: fear if you're new to the game and you don't
Speaker 2: know that the rules of the game and all the
Speaker 2: different ways it works. There's also that fear side of
Speaker 2: it going to the first team of it. Am I
Speaker 2: gonna do something wrong? Am I going to embarrass myself?
Speaker 2: I really shouldn't be out here, I don't want to play.
Speaker 2: All of that goes away when you're in your basement,
Speaker 2: playing in the comfort of your own home. So we're
Speaker 2: really bullish on and really excited to spanded.
Speaker 1: I need to back up about this kid who went
Speaker 1: from off course golf as you call it, or simulator golf,
Speaker 1: to playing where.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I just totally but it's wait.
Speaker 1: He must have been shocked when he had to hit
Speaker 1: a ball that was below his feet or even above
Speaker 1: his feet or he had to putt I mean, wait what, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those parts are crazy to think about. But I
Speaker 2: mean you got to also think how many the evolution
Speaker 2: of how good those products are, you know, every in
Speaker 2: and out of your swing, swing path, spin rates, all
Speaker 2: those things that there are probably a fair number of
Speaker 2: kids fifteen twenty years ago that played incredible D one
Speaker 2: schools that maybe never even had access to those numbers.
Speaker 2: It was all absolutely so like that aspect of it
Speaker 2: is unbelievable fast we've evolved.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, it's it's true that you can with
Speaker 1: the proper tools, you can learn a lot about your
Speaker 1: swing before you ever get to a golf course. But again,
Speaker 1: hitting balls, and we reiterate this so often on this show.
Speaker 1: Hitting golf balls and playing golf are two completely different things.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, yeah, he agrees.
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit more. I want to
Speaker 1: go into more of your first reaction when you walked
Speaker 1: into SOFI and saw the TGL setup.
Speaker 2: It was wild the day that I first so I'd
Speaker 2: been a part of kind of the inner workings with
Speaker 2: tglsins middle of twenty twenty two, and it had kind
Speaker 2: of been a little bit of a dream come true.
Speaker 2: So it was late twenty three. We were down at
Speaker 2: Universal Studios. They had essentially a smaller format of the
Speaker 2: screen where they were doing all the test runs and
Speaker 2: figuring out the competition and the technology, and getting to
Speaker 2: go down there already kind of blew your mind a
Speaker 2: bit just seeing them. I think at the time that
Speaker 2: screen was thirty feet by forty feet or something, right,
Speaker 2: I mean it's still massive, but you didn't have anything
Speaker 2: other than that. But still it just it blew your
Speaker 2: mind to seek off plate in that kind of setting,
Speaker 2: that kind of environment, and then transition. It was November
Speaker 2: of twenty four and I actually went down the day
Speaker 2: that we had Justin and Pat come in for the
Speaker 2: first time. And and Thomas and Patrick can'tle a so
Speaker 2: they were two players actually to walk in and hit
Speaker 2: a ball in so far, so we were all there
Speaker 2: the same same time. And you walk in, you turn
Speaker 2: that corner and you just see a I mean a screen.
Speaker 2: I think it's bigger than an Imax screen, and it
Speaker 2: just I don't know, Fred, if you have the chance
Speaker 2: to go down or not, but I mean it just
Speaker 2: takes you away. It takes your breath away, you're it
Speaker 2: just it was mind boggling to see.
Speaker 1: Well, if that's an invitation, I'm coming.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, but it it was unbelievable. So and then
Speaker 2: even just over the progression from November until the first week,
Speaker 2: and you just saw the stadium come together more time,
Speaker 2: the guys got to have in their practicing the green
Speaker 2: getting to stand on it and rotate on it. It
Speaker 2: just the technological feat that happened to make that facility
Speaker 2: come to life was are not one of the coolest
Speaker 2: things to get to see and experience.
Speaker 1: And you got involved with the Atlanta team mainly because
Speaker 1: well TGA Superstores PGA Superstores and the Atlanta TGL team,
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Drive are owned both by the same person
Speaker 1: who also is the co founder of Home Depot, Arthur Blank. Yes, right,
Speaker 1: So I guess that's your connection to get to the
Speaker 1: Atlanta team. Is the parent company owner owns everything. And
Speaker 1: what was your involvement during TGL. Am I saying it right?
Speaker 1: Or am I saying PGL TGL like blanking out here?
Speaker 1: So your involvement with TGL and the Atlanta team, what
Speaker 1: did you get to do? How close did you get
Speaker 1: to the action?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I mean starting back in twenty two. You know,
Speaker 2: mister Blank is very bullish on the game of golf,
Speaker 2: very bullish on the growth that exists within the game
Speaker 2: of golf, and got excited by the opportunity to be
Speaker 2: involved in this new age golf league. So we got
Speaker 2: to work on just looking at was it right, was
Speaker 2: it the right opportunity, what it was going to look like,
Speaker 2: kind of on the investment side. Post investment, then it
Speaker 2: really turned into starting to work through all the actual
Speaker 2: creation of the team, what it would be called, everything
Speaker 2: from like logos, colors, everything we kind of did to
Speaker 2: design Atlanta Dry and then with that it was kind
Speaker 2: of me for a while there as a point person,
Speaker 2: if you will, between the team and the league, so
Speaker 2: helping just kind of create the original rules, the cadence
Speaker 2: of how everything happens. I mean, we were flying a
Speaker 2: plane while building it. At the same time. We didn't
Speaker 2: have wheels, we didn't have wings, Like we're just off
Speaker 2: and and and hoping it works. And so it was fun.
Speaker 2: I mean it was a startup, right, So.
Speaker 1: We have you ever been involved in anything like that
Speaker 1: before as a startup?
Speaker 2: No, nothing like that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Okay, soup you.
Speaker 2: Know, it was a wild ride. So we got to
Speaker 2: experience kind of everything, I mean everything from the first
Speaker 2: pass of how we were going to do rosters, to
Speaker 2: then some of the inner workings of some of the
Speaker 2: players leaving because they they went over to another tour
Speaker 2: and then having to figure out what players were going
Speaker 2: to backfill, and then the the issue with the generator
Speaker 2: and the bubble going down, and the delay of the
Speaker 2: league a year and just all the different stuff that
Speaker 2: kind of happened was a while.
Speaker 1: Wait, what do you mean the bubble went down?
Speaker 2: So the original TGL structure was think it was actually
Speaker 2: designed after the Miami Dolphins practice facilities, so it was
Speaker 2: like they call those sports bubbles, more of a soft
Speaker 2: top arena. And the league was supposed to actually launch
Speaker 2: in January of twenty four, but November of twenty three,
Speaker 2: there was a huge storm that went through and struck
Speaker 2: two of the generators that were powering as they were
Speaker 2: still doing construction, and part of the salt bubble, I guess,
Speaker 2: for lack of a word, deflating on one of them
Speaker 2: metal joys and popped it and the whole thing collapsed.
Speaker 2: So that was why the league actually got delayed a year.
Speaker 1: Isn't that the same storm that wiped out the Tampa
Speaker 1: Bay Rays.
Speaker 2: I think yeah, it might actually the same storm. I
Speaker 2: don't remember the timing, but it was. Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: in early November.
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow Okay, And then during TGL itself on the broadcast,
Speaker 1: you were right there with the Atlanta team.
Speaker 2: I was. I was on the I guess you'd call
Speaker 2: it field to play with them.
Speaker 1: So on the course, yes, on the.
Speaker 2: The three of us, the three of the players and
Speaker 2: myself were down there for each match.
Speaker 1: And what were you doing there with them?
Speaker 2: Specifically on match nights? I kind of helped orchestrate and
Speaker 2: run more of the strategic side of how we're going
Speaker 2: to approach things, So manage the actual physical screen for one,
Speaker 2: So basically, you know, in the simulator world, you aim
Speaker 2: where you want to go, you actually move the point
Speaker 2: of aim. You're able to look at if they had
Speaker 2: a question of how far is the carry to that
Speaker 2: bunk or how far? So it was kind of like
Speaker 2: we called it the digital caddy. So think kind of
Speaker 2: in that mindset to be able to have a massive
Speaker 2: Yardist book in the in the digital world. So running
Speaker 2: that and then working with the guys on helping set
Speaker 2: what order they were going to play, kind of mapped
Speaker 2: out the holes of hey, Billy, we're not going to
Speaker 2: hit driver here, We're going to play out to the right.
Speaker 2: That sets justin up for a good seven iron, like
Speaker 2: just almost like mapping out the strategy behind how we
Speaker 2: were going to approach it. So works closely with them
Speaker 2: and all that. So honestly, my goal was I just
Speaker 2: wanted them to show up and focus on hitting the
Speaker 2: best shots and not have to overthink any of that stuff.
Speaker 2: Let that all be to me and we'll send it
Speaker 2: all up.
Speaker 1: How familiar with were you with each of their games
Speaker 1: on an en course play that you were able to
Speaker 1: assist in what decisions are being made strategically. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: were a caddy, right, Basically you were a caddy without
Speaker 1: having to carry anything.
Speaker 2: Lucky you, thank you, But you had to deal with
Speaker 2: three people and not one, so I don't know part
Speaker 2: of me would argue carrying a bag might be they
Speaker 2: were first off, these guys were the greatest. I couldn't
Speaker 2: have wanted a better group of four guys on the
Speaker 2: team because we did have four, but only three played
Speaker 2: in a night. But yeah, I mean I think it
Speaker 2: was a combination of thankfully for shot Link now and
Speaker 2: getting access easily to kind of a data set of
Speaker 2: how and in what ways they play, mirrored with just having
Speaker 2: a good communication channel with what's their comfort level on
Speaker 2: hitting a cut versus draw, what's their comfort level on
Speaker 2: rough shots versus fair way. You know, if it tightened
Speaker 2: up closer, do you want a ninety shot from the
Speaker 2: rough or a one to fifty from short grass. Just
Speaker 2: kind of having some of those notes when we practiced
Speaker 2: early on just kind of help streamline the whole process,
Speaker 2: if you will. So it's a little bit of a
Speaker 2: combination of already just watching them and being huge fans
Speaker 2: of them each and every week, plus working directly with
Speaker 2: them to get a feel for what they like and
Speaker 2: don't like.
Speaker 1: Right, who is the most difficult?
Speaker 2: None of them? They were all amazing.
Speaker 1: Oh come on. So and now that that season is
Speaker 1: over and I felt like it was a big success.
Speaker 1: I loved watching it. I know that there are a
Speaker 1: lot of let's call them old school OG golfers right
Speaker 1: that were like discounting it as if it was another
Speaker 1: league that was just trying to dig into the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour like live. But it really kind of supported what
Speaker 1: PGA is doing as opposed to competing with it, and
Speaker 1: you know, they complimented. I mean it was clear that
Speaker 1: these were Monday and Tuesday nights because those were the
Speaker 1: off days for these guys and they lived a lot
Speaker 1: of them lived in the area where so far was
Speaker 1: set up.
Speaker 2: Correct, that's right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how how does everyone feel about season two?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I think everybody's bullish, kind of like
Speaker 2: you were just hinting at, right. I mean, it is
Speaker 2: one of those things where a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of the guys maybe the first match or the first
Speaker 2: practice sessions, there was a little bit of it's new. Right.
Speaker 2: The way I kind of equated it was, I if
Speaker 2: you're playing at API at bay Hill and you had
Speaker 2: to go out and play the next week at the
Speaker 2: Scottish Open, you got to change the way you play golf.
Speaker 2: You're not going to the same type of drive. You're
Speaker 2: not going to hit the forty yard shots around the
Speaker 2: greens the same. The lies are different, you have to
Speaker 2: play the conditions, the wind, the temperature, everything. This was
Speaker 2: the exact same situation, and I think maybe some of
Speaker 2: the guys at first wanted to say it's the same,
Speaker 2: but you have to realize you're indoors, so it's a
Speaker 2: controlled environment. There's no wind. The ball flies differently because
Speaker 2: the humidity is you know, set in an indoor environment
Speaker 2: versus outdoor mornings and afternoon rounds. The humidity changes, so
Speaker 2: there's all these different things. And yes, we hit off
Speaker 2: a real grass into the screen, but it was hitting
Speaker 2: off of turf around the greens, So some of the
Speaker 2: guys maybe hit the same that low spinning webshot, but
Speaker 2: if that ball lands in turf, it interacts differently than
Speaker 2: if it lands on you know, bed grass or something.
Speaker 2: So there was just an adoption that needed to happen
Speaker 2: as they realized that it was technically a little bit
Speaker 2: of a different game, a different format, And once that happened,
Speaker 2: everybody started playing their best, and I think it really
Speaker 2: I think after the first couple of weeks, everybody would
Speaker 2: agree that competition got really, really tight, because now you're
Speaker 2: just seeing the best players in the world have fun
Speaker 2: and want to beat each other. And it was in person.
Speaker 2: I got to tell you, like, you're standing with the
Speaker 2: guys on the side, and I'll just say they were
Speaker 2: very competitive and they definitely wanted to win. So I
Speaker 2: think carrying that into season two is is only exciting
Speaker 2: or super bullish on all of it.
Speaker 1: I have grand visions for TGL. I see co ed teams.
Speaker 1: I see LPGA versus LPGA. I see LPGA versus PGA.
Speaker 1: I would love to see PGA versus live, right, I
Speaker 1: think that this doesn't have to be a once a year,
Speaker 1: couple of week situation. But I'm not involved in the
Speaker 1: decision making at all my senses. You're not involved in
Speaker 1: the decision making, but you're on the inside hearing the conversations.
Speaker 2: I think that's that's probably fair.
Speaker 1: So what's going on in the conversations?
Speaker 2: But come on, man, I mean, I think I think
Speaker 2: there's definitely an opportunity to expand. I you know, I
Speaker 2: think everybody would love to see a way to incorporate
Speaker 2: the female golfer into this environment. It's the LPGA is
Speaker 2: doing nothing but growing. The women that play in that
Speaker 2: are as good, if not better than a lot of
Speaker 2: the guys, and unfortunately they just haven't always gotten the eyeballs.
Speaker 2: And the more people are watching, you watch Nelly play golf,
Speaker 2: and I don't care what I mean, She's just she's
Speaker 2: absolutely unbelievable. We'd be crazy to say we wouldn't want
Speaker 2: to see or compete in this kind of environment. So
Speaker 2: I think we're I think there's definitely a likelihood of
Speaker 2: seeing something in the in the future, whether it's you know, mixed,
Speaker 2: whether it's just an LPGA league. But even to add
Speaker 2: onto what you're saying, Fred, and who knows where this
Speaker 2: would go and if it is, But I mean, you're
Speaker 2: seeing the creator classics happening anymore now. On PGA Tour events,
Speaker 2: you could see the number of celebrities that have grown
Speaker 2: to love this game, that have actually invested also in
Speaker 2: TGL like Steph Curry and some of these other folks
Speaker 2: that have really strong presence in the game of golf.
Speaker 2: How do you see that expansion. We've seen that match
Speaker 2: format bring NFL players and other people from other sports
Speaker 2: leagues to draw interest and grow the game. We had
Speaker 2: any of people. There was one night Josh Allen's bachelor
Speaker 2: party was down there during one of our matches, and
Speaker 2: he and the guys all played after the match was over.
Speaker 2: You know, the more you see that kind of interaction,
Speaker 2: it makes you excited just to think about the possibilities
Speaker 2: of where that format and that stadium can really elevate
Speaker 2: the game across more than just the PGA Tour. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll say that to me, there's endless opportunities
Speaker 2: of where and how they can expand and take this
Speaker 2: to help gar the game.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And there's the team aspect of it. You know,
Speaker 1: we know how exciting the Ryder Cup is and the
Speaker 1: energy of it, but the team aspect of this what
Speaker 1: really sucked me in was these guys being miked so
Speaker 1: you can hear them giving each other a hard time,
Speaker 1: you know, dishing it out. But you could also hear
Speaker 1: their strategy as they're playing, which I felt was so
Speaker 1: exciting to hear that part. He's made it more fun.
Speaker 1: You know. The other thing is like here, clearly Tiger,
Speaker 1: who's never going to be able to walk seventy seventy
Speaker 1: two holes competitively. Ever, again, we don't think he's always
Speaker 1: got magic in his back pocket, but we don't know.
Speaker 1: But in a situation like this where he doesn't have
Speaker 1: to walk seventy two holes and he can play a
Speaker 1: full round, that opens the door to more seniors coming in,
Speaker 1: right the Champions Tour, the guys, the older guys coming
Speaker 1: in and playing against each other because they don't have
Speaker 1: to they don't have to walk that much anymore, less
Speaker 1: taxing on him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, By the way, anybody that thinks that man,
Speaker 2: if he was allowed a cart, I would bet on
Speaker 2: him to win again in a big tournament because he's
Speaker 2: still I mean to see, I swear he is. He's
Speaker 2: got magic in every pocket. To watch how he can
Speaker 2: still hit the ball one hundred and eighty miles an hour,
Speaker 2: he just blows it. He blows your mind to get
Speaker 2: to see it in person. He's just you were right there, Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a bit.
Speaker 1: And you're looking at the numbers, hard numbers comparing to
Speaker 1: these other guys, and here he is, and you're.
Speaker 2: Saying, these guys that are winning on the tour right now,
Speaker 2: and he's doing it with you know, obviously maybe the
Speaker 2: legs aren't as strong and parts of your body that
Speaker 2: you need to generate speed, and he's still out there
Speaker 2: just hitting fairways at very very fast speeds. That just
Speaker 2: he's unbelievable, he really is. Can only hope he can
Speaker 2: figure that magic sauce out that you were talking about
Speaker 2: and we get to see him bring twenty nineteen augusta
Speaker 2: back to life, because I think everybody in the world
Speaker 2: would love to see it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly everybody. Well, and then in this conversation thinking about,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Charlie his son, Oh, let's go teams.
Speaker 1: Let's do college teams. Nil is going to allow this. Now,
Speaker 1: let's see college teams, the top four college six college
Speaker 1: teams compete or eight teams, whatever you have, you know,
Speaker 1: compete against each other because they're used to team golf
Speaker 1: as it is. Anyway, it's a whole another so you
Speaker 1: can do this. All this can be done all year long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Insider Baseball thread. I may or may not
Speaker 2: have asked Charlie when we played Tiger if I could
Speaker 2: give him the closer signal when he's sitting in the
Speaker 2: box and see if he would come out and put
Speaker 2: against his dad. And we beat him. But he didn't
Speaker 2: want to. He didn't want to put his dad to
Speaker 2: shame on ESPN. But we But you're right, I mean nothing.
Speaker 2: I mean, you think about how amazing of a format
Speaker 2: like even what the father Son PNC is. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: there's so many of these type of events that tgl's
Speaker 2: format and the style of play could lend itself to
Speaker 2: and it's two hours exactly. It's fast format. The shot
Speaker 2: clock was fun, like if you're in the stadium, everybody's chanting,
Speaker 2: like in a basketball game when there was ten seconds left,
Speaker 2: you know our guys, everybody's running around trying to get
Speaker 2: the crowd riled up. It feels like the first he
Speaker 2: at the Ryder Cup for almost two hours. I mean,
Speaker 2: you can be loud. None of the guys care. There
Speaker 2: was no like signs held up. That's as please be
Speaker 2: quiet when we're tea and off. You've got guys just chanting.
Speaker 2: When we played New York, I swear they flew down
Speaker 2: Long Island into a fan section and they had no
Speaker 2: problem bringing the Bethpage Block noise to us at TGL,
Speaker 2: and it was it made it. It riled our guys up.
Speaker 2: It made it so much fun.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So technologically TGL again introduced the shot clock,
Speaker 1: which was pretty great. The shot clock and the pressure
Speaker 1: and if I remember, because I watched every single one,
Speaker 1: the only shot clock violation I think was just once
Speaker 1: or twice and it was both Tiger, right, it was
Speaker 1: once and it was and it was Tiger. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He seemed to have more issues with the technology than
Speaker 1: anybody and the old guy. But you know, like Waitte,
Speaker 1: my my nine iron doesn't go that far. You know,
Speaker 1: he kept doing a couple of those, but dude, you're
Speaker 1: hitting off of phony gret well. But when they're hitting
Speaker 1: those boxes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what about other introductions
Speaker 1: of technology do you see in the future, because I
Speaker 1: have a suggestion.
Speaker 2: I'm curious your suggestion before I say anything.
Speaker 1: Okay, have a.
Speaker 2: Better idea than I do.
Speaker 1: No, it's not better, it's just an idea, but I
Speaker 1: think there it's hard on TV to follow the ball
Speaker 1: once it's hit, especially when they take that weird angle
Speaker 1: from the back left corner. But like you, you hear
Speaker 1: the ball hit, You kind of hear a pop when
Speaker 1: it hits the screen, but you don't see it, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, there's like a beat later
Speaker 1: and the ball's fly. Now you see a virtual ball flying.
Speaker 1: My suggestion would be to have like a sound effect
Speaker 1: for when it goes from actual to virtual, like when
Speaker 1: the ball hits the screen, to hear a type of
Speaker 1: sound right, so that you know, okay, But also there's
Speaker 1: a mark on the screen where it hit, because obviously
Speaker 1: the driver gonna it's gonna be lower on the screen
Speaker 1: and then when they hit a wedge. I mean, this
Speaker 1: thing is sixty feet tall, and you know they're hitting
Speaker 1: wedges that probably.
Speaker 2: Could hit the roof getting close.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know it's like where did it hit
Speaker 1: on the screen? What angle are they taking? So I
Speaker 1: have a better idea. I mean, I'm not saying to
Speaker 1: have the tracker line the top tracer line follow the
Speaker 1: ball from when it hits, but to have that moment
Speaker 1: from actual to virtual I think would enhance it a bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think my two cents.
Speaker 2: I think there's gonna be a lot that they'll be
Speaker 2: able to learn and grow from it. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: multiple times throughout the season there were slight adjustments within
Speaker 2: production and also kind of in venue activation and the
Speaker 2: way it worked. I give a lot of credits over
Speaker 2: down there at TGL. They've got a lot of really
Speaker 2: bright minds that have a lot of opportunities. Jeff Newbarthur
Speaker 2: runs production obviously in league for years and put on
Speaker 2: all the matches throughout their creation and has a lot
Speaker 2: of experience in that and excited to see kind of
Speaker 2: what that team brings to life coming into season two.
Speaker 1: Well it maybe mine may not have been that good
Speaker 1: of an idea because you didn't write it down.
Speaker 2: This is recorded, so I didn't have to write it down.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think we need to get back to our
Speaker 1: own virtual setups now. That was really awesome, and congratulations
Speaker 1: on being involved in all of that. It was fun
Speaker 1: to see. And on the cover of this episode you'll
Speaker 1: see a photo have been with a couple of the
Speaker 1: players from a TGL event. Let's let's now talk more
Speaker 1: about how we can play and press ACTE virtually with
Speaker 1: our own in home setup. Where do you start when
Speaker 1: someone's saying I want to do a simulator at my house,
Speaker 1: how do you start that? Where's this conversation begin?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a couple of kind of parameters
Speaker 2: that we just want to understand, right. It really comes
Speaker 2: down to a few things. One the size of the room.
Speaker 2: That sounds like it may be obvious, but certain simulators
Speaker 2: and launch binder technologies require different depths to the screen
Speaker 2: depth from where you make contact. So for at first glance,
Speaker 2: knowing how big your room is, you eliminate X number
Speaker 2: of options. So room sizes is really important.
Speaker 1: And I would suspect that most important is the height
Speaker 1: of the ceiling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the heights nine feet minimum. But outside
Speaker 2: of that, really any of the launch monitors work. If
Speaker 2: you have that height. It really becomes more of the depth,
Speaker 2: the amount of space from the launch monitor to the
Speaker 2: screen and the hit location of the screen. So that
Speaker 2: part of it's kind of an important factor. And then second,
Speaker 2: what are you looking to get from it? I mean,
Speaker 2: in our opinion kind of being an agnostic partner that
Speaker 2: studies and looks at all the different technologies. Are you
Speaker 2: looking to have it more of a social thing and
Speaker 2: play games with friends. Are you looking to just practice
Speaker 2: and you want as many ball metrics as possible to
Speaker 2: be that kid who gets a D one scholarship never
Speaker 2: playing outdoors, or are you looking to play the best
Speaker 2: quality of pebble beach that you can like? It really
Speaker 2: kind of depends on what your use cases because the
Speaker 2: different technologies specialize in different things. And then third, ultimately
Speaker 2: is price point. What budget do you have and how
Speaker 2: do we create the best solution for you, your family, whatever
Speaker 2: your situation is. So I think when we have those
Speaker 2: kind of three, it's a really good starting point to
Speaker 2: then put you in the right bundle at least to
Speaker 2: start a conversation around and kind of work on it
Speaker 2: from there.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be indoors.
Speaker 2: It doesn't. That's another question. You may bring that up. Fred.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of these units. I mean, we see
Speaker 2: every pro guy with one of these or gals on
Speaker 2: the range when they're warming up. A lot of these
Speaker 2: you could put behind you and hit into a net
Speaker 2: in your backyard, you can play in your garage. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's endless options when you really think about it. But again,
Speaker 2: that'd be another thing to note because some of the
Speaker 2: units maybe aren't as good outdoors versus indoors, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So it really just depends on again what your use
Speaker 2: case is ultimately.
Speaker 1: And when I walk in the door saying I want
Speaker 1: to do in home simulator, and I'm thinking it's going
Speaker 1: to be to help my swing mechanics, to help my swing,
Speaker 1: but also for social I want to invite people over
Speaker 1: and make a night of it. Things like that, Where
Speaker 1: do we start do we start on? Okay, how much?
Speaker 1: What's your budget?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really key key point. I mean, ultimately
Speaker 2: it's kind of going to take you also to things
Speaker 2: like quality, really quality of what shows up on the screen. Right.
Speaker 2: I mean you can go into Best Buy tomorrow and
Speaker 2: say I want a fifty five inch TV to watch movies,
Speaker 2: and there's going to be a price range from you know,
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty dollars to three thousand dollars. So
Speaker 2: ultimately just comes down to some of those things that
Speaker 2: are important to you as the consumer. And then they're
Speaker 2: small features, right. I mean some of them have built
Speaker 2: in screens into the unit. That's a nice feature. Some
Speaker 2: of them have better accessibility with iOS and iPad devices
Speaker 2: if you did want to be more mobile. So it
Speaker 2: starts getting a little bit more technical from there. But
Speaker 2: I would say once we know those kind of things,
Speaker 2: we've got a starting point for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think that the starting point is the
Speaker 1: most important, because this guy's the limit on how far
Speaker 1: you can go in price. You can just keep going
Speaker 1: and going. But what should I have in my mind
Speaker 1: as a base amount? I'm going to start with For
Speaker 1: a room in my house, it's got nine foot ceilings
Speaker 1: and the room is twenty by that's a big room.
Speaker 1: Twelve twelve by eighteen room, kind of a standard sized room,
Speaker 1: I guess, with a nine foot ceiling. So we need
Speaker 1: to know what would be the base amount we're talking
Speaker 1: about as opposed. You know, do I turn around and
Speaker 1: walk out the store right now, or it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: you got me, Now let's work from there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean base to get in with everything you
Speaker 2: need to be able to play that Now. Granted we
Speaker 2: don't sell your iPad or.
Speaker 1: They're my golf clubs. I don't need my golf clubs either.
Speaker 2: We do sell your golf club I'm sure you do.
Speaker 1: But let's just.
Speaker 2: Put out of it. If we get you the enclosure,
Speaker 2: the screen, the turf, the projector the side net so
Speaker 2: kids not hitting a hozzle into your window, the side net,
Speaker 2: and then the actual launch monitor itself, we're starting at
Speaker 2: about thirty five hundred bucks. Oh that's not bad, No, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean that. This is the exciting thing too. For
Speaker 2: as we talked about this and where we're really trying
Speaker 2: to get put our foot on the gas and be
Speaker 2: bullish on it is the prices have massively come down
Speaker 2: really over the last four or five years as mass
Speaker 2: adoption has happened. More and more companies are entering this
Speaker 2: space and therefore the competitive nature of it has created
Speaker 2: a bit of a reduction in price. So it's I
Speaker 2: think the mentality of a consumer probably thinks it's fifty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to put.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's where I thought.
Speaker 2: You go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you said thirty five about one hundred, it's
Speaker 1: like thirty five thousand, I am makes sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, thirty five hundred. You you can bet on
Speaker 2: the low end and play golf courses and have fun
Speaker 2: in your house, and that's hitting into a screen with
Speaker 2: a projector everything.
Speaker 1: I've been a big fan here on Golf Smarter with
Speaker 1: the Rahapsodo products. They're great people, and it's a great
Speaker 1: product and the quality. I just happened to see a
Speaker 1: video on YouTube recently a guy comparing the track man
Speaker 1: versus a rap soda, and he's talking about you want
Speaker 1: to spend five thousand or you want to spend seven
Speaker 1: hundred and the accuracy. He tried multiple shots with three
Speaker 1: different clubs and the accuracy was so close it was
Speaker 1: unless you're teaching. If this is just a consumer product,
Speaker 1: I want to get better. The Rap soda really held
Speaker 1: up well at a very compelling price point.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The rhap Sodo MLM two, which is probably what
Speaker 2: you're talking about, is I mean, it's a fantastic price
Speaker 2: point a little under seven hundred dollars, unbelievable quality. It's
Speaker 2: got a cameras you're able to kind of go back
Speaker 2: and loop a little bit of video feed of how
Speaker 2: your swing win and then yeah, the accuracies is fantastic.
Speaker 2: I think again, when you're paying up, it's different functionality
Speaker 2: and features that may or may not be important to
Speaker 2: the consumer. So, for instance, some of the higher end
Speaker 2: ones might have better quality graphic cards, so when you're
Speaker 2: actually hitting into a screen, it's the difference in seeing
Speaker 2: the tree blow in the wind and you know, making
Speaker 2: a lot more realistic feeling maybe versus a little bit
Speaker 2: lower quality graphic. There's small nuances like that that come
Speaker 2: into play. There's some small additive ball in club metrics
Speaker 2: that certain avid golfers might want to see, angle of attack,
Speaker 2: some of these other metrics that are important to their
Speaker 2: game that you don't always get with every unit. So
Speaker 2: again that's what I'm going with it. There's options for everybody.
Speaker 2: It really just comes down to which of those features
Speaker 2: and benefits are most important to figure budget.
Speaker 1: My son has a putt and green out in front
Speaker 1: of his house, fenced in, and he's got two kids,
Speaker 1: four and six and a half years old, and just
Speaker 1: last week he gave them each their own golf bag
Speaker 1: that had a driver, a seven iron, and a putter,
Speaker 1: right these small clubs, and immediately they pulled they each
Speaker 1: pulled out the driver and the seven iron and wanted
Speaker 1: to start swinging away with it. But it's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you're going to damage the You're going to damage the
Speaker 1: putting green if you hit with that. You can't do that.
Speaker 1: And they still don't know what they're doing. They just
Speaker 1: like the big the heft of it, and we're trying
Speaker 1: to get them to use the putter. So this is
Speaker 1: the kind of thing for somebody who has kids, and
Speaker 1: it's like, well, I've got kids now and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to play be able to play golf anymore. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: here's an opportunity. So the price point like that for
Speaker 1: him to start and to have kids be able to
Speaker 1: hit in the balls and have games with that, interactive games,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty compelling argument.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I mean, it's a there's there's different
Speaker 2: technologies again in the launch bars that have different things
Speaker 2: for kids. You know, if you've been to Top Golf Day,
Speaker 2: that partnership with with Angry Birds. Some of the other
Speaker 2: functionality and launch monitors have different cool partnerships to be
Speaker 2: able to entice the kid to play. You can play
Speaker 2: on top of a skyscraper, you can play out in
Speaker 2: a desert hitting at dinosaurs, right, I mean, there's like
Speaker 2: different gamify the driving range or make it fun for kids.
Speaker 2: So that part's cool. They've they've definitely gotten better on putting,
Speaker 2: so a lot of those different launch monitors have like
Speaker 2: pup putt courses and things of that nature. So it's
Speaker 2: really kind of becoming a family environment if that's again
Speaker 2: what you're looking to do with it. And I'm just
Speaker 2: to take a step back, I'm being remiss to not
Speaker 2: call it out A screen, a projector sounds like a
Speaker 2: home theater to me. So when you're not playing, you
Speaker 2: can throw you know, whatever you want to watch, and
Speaker 2: then you're sitting there, you're the cool house that kids
Speaker 2: want to go to because now you basically have a
Speaker 2: built in movie theater in your house. So to me,
Speaker 2: there's there's so many cool opportunities for the whole family
Speaker 2: to be able to get the opportunity or the benefits
Speaker 2: of it. So it's not just it's a both a
Speaker 2: Father's Day and Mother's Day and Christmas gift for the kids.
Speaker 1: Whoever is right, So tell me why I should be
Speaker 1: calling PGA Superstore if I'm interested in putting an in
Speaker 1: home simulator versus any other person that claims to be
Speaker 1: doing golf simulated materials and setups.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, first and foremost kind of where we started, right,
Speaker 2: the name on the door, the brand, the trust that
Speaker 2: you have in us. It's a lot of the people
Speaker 2: that are in this space. It's kind of more of
Speaker 2: your one off shops that do just this. The way
Speaker 2: I kind of equate it to is, would you rather
Speaker 2: go to a car dealership, test drive the car, see
Speaker 2: the car in person, open the doors, all that stuff,
Speaker 2: or do you want to go online to carvon and
Speaker 2: just have somebody come drop it off of your doorstep
Speaker 2: and hopefully it's the exact car you wanted. I mean,
Speaker 2: we are generally speaking talking at a reasonably higher end
Speaker 2: price point for a product. Yeah, it starts at thirty
Speaker 2: five hundred, but you know, as we said earlier, it's
Speaker 2: easy that it could creep up and get a little
Speaker 2: bit higher. So to have a trusted partner that you
Speaker 2: can go to We're located in almost thirty states and
Speaker 2: growing now, so hopefully it's located close enough to you
Speaker 2: where you can actually go in person see the product,
Speaker 2: feel the product. We're actually working right now by the
Speaker 2: end of the year to be able to demo and
Speaker 2: actually feel and see the end to end experience in
Speaker 2: your home in our stores. So it gives you that
Speaker 2: opportunity you talk to any of these players, including the
Speaker 2: manufacturers of the Launch monitor. There's nowhere in the US
Speaker 2: unless you've got a country club or something that might
Speaker 2: have a build out where you're actually able to test
Speaker 2: and demo like you do golf clubs in our store,
Speaker 2: but for the simulator side of things. So we're really
Speaker 2: excited about a lot what's coming. But I just start
Speaker 2: first and foremost with the experience and service level in
Speaker 2: our stores and the trusted partner on our doors. Hopefully
Speaker 2: those two combined with there's no better place to go
Speaker 2: for your high purchase needs like an inome zim.
Speaker 1: Awesome, Ben, this has really been fascinating. I love to
Speaker 1: get your insights as you were at TGL and hear
Speaker 1: what was going on there, but learning more about how
Speaker 1: to set up an in home simulator has been really
Speaker 1: fascinating as well. I appreciate your time and your insights awesome.
Speaker 2: Prey Well, thank you for the time today. It's been fun.