WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.319 The Coca Cola company, Cure and Doctor Pepper and Pepsi 2 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.799 Co are bringing consumers more choices with less sugar than 3 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:10.679 ever before, from sparkling, flavored and bottled waters to zero 4 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:14.160 sugar sports drinks, to ease and sodas. Consumers are taking 5 00:00:14.199 --> 00:00:17.920 advantage of these choices. In fact, nearly sixty percent of 6 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:21.480 beverages sold contains zero sugar. To learn more of visit 7 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:23.079 balanceus dot org. 8 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:27.239 We're outside the Travel Agency, a cannabis store that's got 9 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:28.120 everyone buzzom and. 10 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:29.640 I walked it. I felt like I was in the 11 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:32.119 elite of the skies, like I'm about to get elevated 12 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:34.560 and lifted in the best way. Got the important essential 13 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:37.399 things I need sleep, So tinctures salves to relax my body, 14 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:39.880 right the best New York flowers. 15 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:42.039 Come down to the travel Agency and see for yourself. 16 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:44.159 Preeze only by adults age twenty one an older. Keep 17 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:45.759 out of reach of children and pets. In case of 18 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:49.159 acxill ingestion, or over consumption, contact the National Poison Control Center. 19 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:50.920 Consumer Responsibly. 20 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:55.560 Loop Hot Radio. 21 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:05.959 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 22 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:09.079 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 23 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:16.439 written about them Geesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 24 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:20.159 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 25 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:24.439 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 26 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:28.359 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 27 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:43.239 Good Evening. Thousands of Americans have been convicted and sentenced 28 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.760 to death for crimes they never committed. Some have even 29 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:51.079 been executed despite their innocence. The Deprived is a true 30 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:53.640 crime book that tells the stories of Americans who have 31 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:56.000 been sent to death row simply because they were at 32 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.719 the wrong place at the wrong time. The book looks 33 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:03.200 into the murder cases, investigations, and trials that puts them 34 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:06.040 on death row and describes what life is like when 35 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:10.840 you're exonerated after decades in the death house. The Deprived 36 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:14.080 also focuses on those most likely to be wrongfully convicted 37 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:18.199 in America and the reasons why. The book that we're 38 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:22.319 featuring this evening is The Deprived. Innocent on Death Row 39 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:27.680 with my special guest, journalist and author Stephan Howell. Welcome 40 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:29.919 to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. 41 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.800 Stephan Howell, thank you very much, thank you for having me. 42 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:40.439 Thank you very much for this Before we get right 43 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:46.039 into these incredible examples of those that were. As you 44 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.000 write The Deprived, what tell us a little bit about 45 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:54.759 your background and how you came to want to write 46 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:56.599 this book The Deprived. 47 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:03.400 My background is said, I'm educated as a journalist in Denmark, 48 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:08.919 and all through my career I have been looking into 49 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:16.159 topics that I personally have found how should I put 50 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:23.000 it too cruel to be real? I started out by 51 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:27.240 looking into human trafficking in the Balkans right after the 52 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:32.840 Civil War, and how human traffickers they brought young people 53 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:37.800 into Europe, forcing them, for instance, into prostitution and so on. 54 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:43.520 And I was by then a very young journalist in 55 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:47.599 my early twenties, and I felt so sad and sorrow 56 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:51.400 for these people that I met that was trafficked into Europe. 57 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:56.360 And from that moment I knew that if I was 58 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:00.240 going to do any good as a journalist, I wouldn't 59 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:06.800 be writing about problems occurring outside my every day window. 60 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:10.639 I would need to dig a bit deeper and look 61 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:14.080 into some of these topics that a lot of people 62 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:18.240 they don't know anything about, and that journalists normally don't 63 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:22.439 dig into for many reasons, perhaps because it's too risky 64 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:27.720 concerning their own personal life, but also because it's difficult 65 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:32.720 getting underneath the surface. And when I later in my 66 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:41.439 career red stories about these innocent people that was put 67 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:45.600 in prisons and worst case, on death row, I knew 68 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:50.120 that I had to look into this serious matter as well, 69 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:54.000 also because I had a personal stake in it. When 70 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.800 I was seventeen years old, I was walking down the 71 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:01.240 street one night in my hometown here in Denmark, and 72 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:06.480 I witnessed a young man that was being brutally attacked 73 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:11.000 and stepped to death by a group of fogs. And 74 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:18.160 I reacted to this crime naturally. I feared for my 75 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:22.360 own life and for many years to come, I was 76 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:26.079 scared to leave my parents' house, and it really did 77 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:29.600 a number on me, so to speak. And I reacted 78 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:36.279 to this fear in an emotional way by trying to 79 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:42.319 avoid it in the way that I demanded that the 80 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:45.759 people who have put this feary within me that they 81 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.399 suffered the same as a victim. So despite the fact 82 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:51.839 that I come from a country that does not have 83 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:56.439 death penalty and has not used death penalty for almost 84 00:05:56.439 --> 00:06:00.399 one hundred and fifty years, to me, my natural reaction 85 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:07.800 was actually been in favor of the death penancy until 86 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:11.879 I came across some of these stories that I have 87 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:14.360 now put into the book The Deprived. 88 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:21.800 Let's start with some of these dramatic stories and dramatic examples. 89 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:26.759 You start with a gentleman named Nick Yeris and born 90 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.959 in nineteen sixty one, convicted in nineteen eighty two, and 91 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:34.279 exonerated in two thousand and three. Take us back as 92 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:39.839 you do, to Sunset Boulevard, West Hollywood, and or pardon me, 93 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:44.600 take it to the Tri State Mall in Delaware, near Pennsylvania, 94 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:49.480 and Linda may Craig tell us what happens to Linda 95 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:53.680 may Craig and how Nick Yaris gets all involved in this. 96 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:59.879 It was a young lady. She was going back late 97 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.839 night from from her shift at the mall where she 98 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:08.279 was working, and as she was trying to take off 99 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:14.279 in her car, she was abducted, driven to a nearby 100 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:20.920 side that was vacant, and she was brutally raped and 101 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:31.319 afterwards killed. And a few days later after disappearance, two 102 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:34.360 young guys found her. And to begin with, they thought 103 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:36.560 it was a mannequin that they had found, but it 104 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:41.240 turned out to be this young mother of two kids. 105 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:48.240 And the connection to nik Yaris is that he was 106 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:52.680 actually in prison when he read an article about this 107 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:58.160 brutal kidnapping and murder, and he thought that it was 108 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:03.839 his way out of a possible sentence of the crime 109 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:06.800 that in the first place put him in the jail. 110 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:11.279 So he actually sold investigators that he knew who had 111 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:14.680 committed the crime, and from the article that he was 112 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:17.480 reading in the paper, he had a lot of details. 113 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:21.399 So what he did was he sounded very persuasive when 114 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:29.759 he actually voluntarily told investigators what had happened. It turned 115 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:34.879 out that the man that he named as the killer 116 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.360 was actually alive. Nick Yards didn't expect him to be 117 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:42.679 because he had been told that he had odeed a 118 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:46.080 few weeks earlier. But it turned out that it was 119 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:48.519 not this guy that had adeed, it was his brother. 120 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:53.679 So in all of a sudden, investigators actually had a 121 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:58.519 guy that they could confront with this crime that neck 122 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:02.519 Yards claimed to be aware of. When they confronted the guy, 123 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:07.159 he had a solid alibi. So investigators actually turned it 124 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.480 around and they said, well, mister Yaris, since you know 125 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:17.080 so much about this crime, even down to the details, 126 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:21.039 well you got to be the killer. And he was 127 00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:25.080 put on the stand and actually sentenced to death. 128 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:33.200 You talk about his mother at trial, and the most 129 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:36.919 haunting thing of all was his mother's reaction at trial. 130 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.840 And then tell us what happens afterwards, his demeanor, what 131 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:46.320 does he resolve to do? What gets done on his behalf? 132 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:54.039 As Nick told me during my materile interviews with him, 133 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:56.600 one of the worst things that actually happened to him 134 00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:01.600 was listening to his mom breaking down as he had 135 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:06.960 his sentence read. He would never for the twenty two 136 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:11.080 years he spent on death row, forget the sound of 137 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:15.200 her tears and and and that was one of the 138 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:19.399 worst things that he experienced, as he says today. But 139 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:24.120 reality is when he went to one of the most 140 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:30.039 should we call it them in famous prisons in America, 141 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.240 Huntingdon in Pennsylvania, the first thing he experienced was actually 142 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:40.399 being met by a bunch of gods and they beated 143 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:44.879 him up as severe as they could because that was 144 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:50.840 their way of welcoming a prisoner to Huntingdon. But this 145 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:56.799 was only the first of many brutal encounters that Nick 146 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:00.200 had with gods and that he had with the other 147 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:06.279 inmate inmates. One of the things that took place in 148 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:12.720 the prison, according to Nick, was a gladiator school or 149 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:19.360 gladiator ring as the prison guards called it. Almost daily 150 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:25.120 they would force inmates to meet each other in the 151 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:30.759 cell where the fight would result. Always would one guy, 152 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:36.440 you know, lying unconscious on the floor, and it didn't 153 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:40.000 matter if it was your best friend that they let in. 154 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:43.279 One way or another, someone was going to end up 155 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:47.720 on the floor unconscious because that was the only way 156 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:51.639 that these guards they could actually resolve the bets that 157 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.240 they made on who was actually going to get out 158 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:59.840 of the ring alive or or at least walking. And 159 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:05.080 one of the things that really surprised me when I 160 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:09.799 met Nick Yaris in a restaurant on Sunset Boulevard in 161 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:15.600 Los Angeles was that I had been told a bit 162 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:20.000 about the experiences that he had in prison and how 163 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:23.480 brutal it had been, And when I met him in 164 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:27.879 the restaurant, I expected to see either a man crawling 165 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:33.320 around along the wall because I imagined him to be broken, 166 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:39.720 or the opposite, a cruel monster that had become as 167 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:44.960 evil as he was accused of being wrongfully on trial. 168 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:49.639 But he turned out to be something completely different, a 169 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:56.840 very humble, kind and insulgent man, because one of the 170 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.320 things that he did while spending all these twin two 171 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:05.639 years in prison was actually educating himself. He read thousands 172 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:10.399 of books, and as he could see he was drifting 173 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:14.840 into becoming this ego man, he decided to change himself. 174 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:19.480 He even changed the way that he spoke. He softened 175 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:26.200 his voice, trying to avoid becoming something that was perhaps 176 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:30.720 not something that he was actually perhaps not able to 177 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:36.240 avoid becoming. But he did. And it surprised me very 178 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:40.679 much when I met him that there was actually sitting 179 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:45.320 this guy opposite me, eating his French toest and being 180 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:51.600 kind and attensive, asking about my life, and speaking in 181 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:58.039 an emotional way about his life after being released, despite 182 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.000 the fact that all the emotions that he more or 183 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:06.360 less experienced from other ones till his release was evil 184 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:06.879 and cruel. 185 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:15.080 You talk about his tenacity, you know, the ability for 186 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.759 him to keep hopeful despite all kinds of setbacks and 187 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.360 the brutal treatment as well as he's receiving in prison. 188 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:26.320 But you talked about that one day he got a 189 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:31.080 revelation and found out about DNA. He had some setbacks 190 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:38.600 with that. Tell us what happened regarding the DNA eventually 191 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:42.679 people were on his side. A clerk found some material 192 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:47.159 after a DNA test had failed before tell us what 193 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:54.399 happens with Nick Yaris finally, and how DNA was instrumental 194 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:54.679 in that. 195 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:01.320 As many of these says throw in me. Nick tried 196 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:06.159 again and again and again, having authorit his looking into 197 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:10.360 DNA evidence because it was there, But when he was 198 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:14.879 convicted in eighty two, no one gave much about DNA, 199 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:19.679 so over the years it actually turned in to be 200 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:24.200 a solid evidence. But despite the fact that it was 201 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.240 still there and it actually could set him free, it 202 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:33.320 was not till he asked the governor of Pennsylvania to 203 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:37.279 execute him that they actually looked into it. He had 204 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:39.919 this man for twenty two years. He'd been trying to 205 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:44.200 prove his innocence. He had tried again and again and 206 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:50.159 again to have law enforcement looking in true evidence that 207 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:53.799 could prove his innocence, and then in all of a 208 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:58.360 sudden he gave up. The governor for this is too 209 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.960 strange to true, But naturally, if there is a guy 210 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:09.480 on death row who asks to be executed, then I 211 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:17.960 will fulfill his wish wish and he actually accepted doing so, 212 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:25.159 but not until all evidence had been thoroughly investigated one 213 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:29.559 more time, and this time by the use of DNA, 214 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:34.799 and when they came back with the results, there was 215 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:40.480 no doubt Nickieris had never kidnapped, raped, and murdered this woman. 216 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:44.720 And after twenty two years on death row, he was 217 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:48.320 set free and it was time for him to restore 218 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:52.320 life as possible as it is when you spent more 219 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:54.200 than two decades on death row. 220 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:03.159 You talk about compensation as well in this book, and 221 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.960 examples of that lack of compensation in the fight for 222 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.400 proper compensation amid all the other effects of somebody being 223 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:16.599 locked up lawfully or wrongfully for so many years. You 224 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:19.359 talk about the toll that it had on his mother 225 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:24.519 that could never forget her cry at court. How much 226 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:29.079 of how long did they get to be together after 227 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:29.680 his release? 228 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:36.440 Unfortunately not that many years, to be honest, I don't 229 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:40.599 remember the exact number of years, but she passed away 230 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:47.279 and after his release he moved in with his parents, 231 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:50.759 who was actually living there with the basement, and he 232 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:55.599 promised his parents that for the rest of his life 233 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:59.079 he was actually going to make something good of it, 234 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:04.240 because way too much had always been wasted, had already 235 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:09.759 been wasted, and from that moment he was released and 236 00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:12.079 move back with his parents. He decided that he was 237 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:16.559 going to be as kind as as days long, and 238 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:19.759 he had things up with his parents, and and and 239 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:25.119 and tried to make up for the time launt. But 240 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.880 both his parents were were up there in in in 241 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:35.480 in the ages, and and and therefore they passed away 242 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.279 a few years after he was being after he had 243 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:47.039 been released. But in the Yard's case, as he has 244 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:52.880 also publicly told about, it has been hard for parts 245 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:58.880 of his family actually to accept that the relative they 246 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:03.359 fought was cold blood a killer suddenly turned out to 247 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:08.519 be innocent after twenty two years. And I have, over 248 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:12.680 the years working on this book, interviewed a lot of 249 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:16.519 people who have been exonerated, not just from death row, 250 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.640 and a common thing for many of them is that 251 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:25.359 it is actually difficult for the surrounding society to believe 252 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:31.000 that they're actually innocent, because in the first place, it 253 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:36.960 is a very difficult and cruel thing turning your heart 254 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:42.119 and head around and believing that the son, the brother, 255 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:46.400 the cousin, your best friend was actually not who you 256 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:49.640 believed them to be in the first place. No, in 257 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:52.319 all of a sudden they were convicted of the most 258 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:58.839 senious crimes. Then some years later you're told, well, your 259 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:03.599 brother was actually innocent. That makes a lot of these 260 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:10.200 relatives feel probably guilty that they suspected the loved ones 261 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:14.880 of actually being these killers. But what is more difficult 262 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:19.559 for some of them is actually to admit that they 263 00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:24.640 were the ones wrong when they wrongfully convicted the brothers, 264 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:31.160 the sons, the loved ones, And therefore they continue to 265 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:36.599 perhaps hate or at least turn their back on these 266 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:42.160 ex honaries. And that was also what Niger's experience from 267 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.279 parts of his family when he was released. 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Eyewitness misidentification biggest single cause. 299 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:18.240 You cite eyewitness testimony contaminated by news reports and time 300 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:23.200 and forensic methods and experts without proper scientific basis for 301 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.799 their findings. And now we'll go to an example that 302 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.480 you have another dramatic example in your book. To deprive 303 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:36.599 a false concessions is also a very big reason and 304 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:42.400 use include the case of Damon Thebideaux. Tell us about 305 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:49.200 Damon Thebideaux and this incredible innocent guy that got all 306 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.160 caught up in this and it is a dramatic example. 307 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:53.359 Tell us about this. 308 00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:02.480 Damon had a very difficult upbringing, was sexually abused and 309 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:08.279 violated in many ways by people very close to him 310 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:14.839 from a very very early age, and it resulted in 311 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:19.160 him dropping out of high school and instead he drifted. 312 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.640 He was living outside of New Orleans, but went to 313 00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:28.599 Texas and spent some time there. And I think that 314 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:32.279 he was rootless in the way that he didn't know 315 00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:34.240 as a young man what he was going to do 316 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:38.160 with his life. He was seventeen years old when he 317 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.119 had his son, but he didn't see his son because 318 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:46.960 he was in a stage of life where responsibility and 319 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:52.119 actually having a normal everyday life was not something that 320 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.839 he was taught to have by the upbringing that he had. 321 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.039 But in his early twenties, twenty one years old. She 322 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:02.799 decided to go back to be close to his family, 323 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.079 and for the first time in life, things were actually 324 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.559 going in the right directions for him, and he was 325 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:16.480 very happy to be back with his family until one afternoon. 326 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:22.759 He had been spending the afternoon with one of his relatives, 327 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:28.559 actually a couple of them, and his cousin's sister, sorry, 328 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:34.880 his cousin's daughter. They had been roller skating through the afternoon, 329 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.519 but because of the summer heat, they decided to go 330 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.599 back and have a few cold drinks. But then this 331 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:46.400 seventeen year old girl, she was not only thirsty, she 332 00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:48.920 was hungry as well, and she asked Damon if he 333 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.599 could take her to a nearby mall so she could 334 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.920 get something to eat. And Damon us was tired, so 335 00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:59.920 he said no, sorry, you have to go on your own. 336 00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:05.519 And since he said those words, he has regretted them 337 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:12.200 because this young girl she never came back. Some time 338 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:18.640 between when she left her home and and and got 339 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:23.160 to the Moon, she was abducted and taken to a 340 00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:31.079 remote area where she was choked to death, and Damon 341 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:37.519 participated in the search for her in the hours to come, 342 00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:42.720 and by the end of the night, he went back home, 343 00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:45.960 and and and and he wanted to rest up before 344 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:50.079 going to participate in in the search one more time, 345 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.359 and two investigators they came and knocking on the door. 346 00:25:55.119 --> 00:26:00.960 In the first place, they didn't suspect him of involved 347 00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:05.440 in the crime. They just had a few questions to 348 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:10.519 ask him. But as they were there searching for this 349 00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:16.000 missing person, it became a homicide case because dispatcher told 350 00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:21.279 them that the girl had been found dead, and immediately 351 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.240 they suspected Damon because he was one of the last 352 00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:27.720 ones to see her in the afternoon. They brought her down. 353 00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:32.839 They brought him down to the station, and they interrogated 354 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:39.759 him for a total of thirty six hours. And within 355 00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:43.920 these thirty six hours he only had a few hours 356 00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:47.720 of rest. He almost didn't have anything to eat or drink, 357 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.480 and when they were done with him, he was so 358 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:55.319 eager to get out of that room that he would 359 00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:59.839 confess to anything. He was a twenty one year old man, 360 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:05.519 remembered the background that he had. It had never been 361 00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:13.039 a solid, calm background as many other teenagers have, so 362 00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:17.799 he was actually not in a very stable place in life. 363 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:23.680 So he didn't have the force and perhaps the coolness 364 00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:29.400 that it would take to resist given this confession after 365 00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:36.279 being as he says, mentally beaten and terrorized for for 366 00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:41.039 for for thirty six hours, and and and you know, 367 00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:45.319 by the end of the day he confessed, and the 368 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:50.240 minute that he confessed, he passed out shortly after he 369 00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:53.799 woke up in in in prison, and he knew that 370 00:27:54.440 --> 00:27:58.160 this confession that he had given could never be taken back. 371 00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:04.599 And and the pride was spending fifteen years on death 372 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:09.039 row because he simply could not take anymore after thirty 373 00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:11.440 six hours. 374 00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:17.440 You talk about what complicates this story is not just 375 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:22.799 people's ideas that well, a person wasn't innocent, they wouldn't confess, 376 00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:28.920 but the details in this very detailed confession. Prosecutor took 377 00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:33.319 what the police had, What did the prosecutor see, and 378 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.839 what the prosecutor should have done with that evidence? 379 00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:45.599 What they saw was something that reality did not see. 380 00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:53.640 They suspect that in the first place, what Damon was 381 00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:57.240 confessing too was also what they were going to build 382 00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:00.720 the case on, and so they did. They didn't build 383 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:04.759 the case on was actually that all the things that 384 00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:09.799 Damon said and told as facts of his crime did 385 00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:16.039 not match up with reality. So all the forensics that 386 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:22.039 they had back, the prosecutor could have cleared Damon right 387 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:27.240 away because the confession he gave about how he had 388 00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:33.200 violated this young girl had nothing to do with what 389 00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:40.160 science proved. But they were so eager, probably to convict 390 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:44.599 the man of the crime. And if they even had 391 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:50.839 someone being stupid enough to confess into it, well then 392 00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:54.200 let's go ahead with it. That seems to be how 393 00:29:54.920 --> 00:30:02.960 prosecution reacted to the fact of reality that the confession 394 00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:11.319 did not match with what investigators found on the crime scene. 395 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:18.079 So he should have had a slap on his wrist 396 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.880 for given a false confession, and then they should have 397 00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:28.400 gone and actually searched for the real killer, who has 398 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:34.319 never been found. But instead they seemed so eager to 399 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:41.000 just solve this case that they were putting an innocent 400 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:46.240 man on death row despite the fact that they knew 401 00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:52.240