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Sign 22 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:57.840 up now at chumba casino dot com. 23 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.280 No personesses every d every by Lost Eaters is a 24 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:00.840 leading labe. 25 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.840 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 26 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:17.959 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:25.280 written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK every 28 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:29.000 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:33.319 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 30 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:48.439 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. Just before 31 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:52.519 Christmas nineteen oh two, Alfred Knapp strangled his wife in 32 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:55.640 her sleep. He put her body in a box and 33 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:59.280 sent the box floating down the Great Miami River, telling 34 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.680 everyone that had had left him. When the truth came out, 35 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:07.000 Knapp confessed to four other murders. Newspapers across the Midwest 36 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:11.360 sent reporters to interview the handsome strangler. Despite spending most 37 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:14.960 of his adulthood in prison, he had a charming, boyish 38 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:18.960 manner that made him an instant celebrity serial killer. True 39 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:22.840 crime historian Richard O. Jones examines the Strangler's alleged crimes, 40 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:27.120 the family drama of covering up Knapp's atrocities, and how 41 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:31.199 a brain damage drifter became a media darling. The book 42 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:34.439 they're featuring this evening is the first celebrity serial killer 43 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:39.719 in Southwest Ohio, Confessions of the Strangler Alfred Knapp, with 44 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:43.400 my special guest, true crime historian and author Richard O. 45 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.520 Jones. Welcome to the program, and thank you very much 46 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:47.199 for this interview. 47 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:48.199 Richard O. 48 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:48.879 Jones. 49 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:51.840 Thanks for having me, Dan, it's pleasure to talk with you. 50 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:57.520 Thank you so much. An incredible story. Let's talk about 51 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:02.960 your background in journalist and a little bit about how 52 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:06.319 you came to be the author of the first celebrity 53 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:09.039 serial killer in Southwest Ohio. What brought you to this story. 54 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:14.599 Well, basically, I spent my first career twenty five years 55 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:19.560 as a reporter for my hometown newspaper, the Hamilton Journal News. 56 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:25.319 And part of my coverage was it pretty broad ranging stuff. 57 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.639 I did arts and entertainment mostly, but I also did 58 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:33.159 the cultural institutions in town, the historical societies and things 59 00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:36.000 of that sort. And so in doing the job, I 60 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:41.360 kind of developed a interest in local history and I 61 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:45.680 ran across Alfred Knapp as I was well. He was 62 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:49.560 just kind of a common thing in Butler County, Ohio, 63 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:53.639 because he was our first electric chaircase. I'm getting ahead 64 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.360 of myself here, but he was our first electric chaircase 65 00:03:56.360 --> 00:04:01.080 in Butler County, and so we're kind of known about 66 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:05.759 him through that little tidbit of information. But about two 67 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:07.840 thousand and eight, a friend of mine who had spent 68 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:12.039 some time in Hollywood as a documentary filmmaker, he approached 69 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:14.240 me to do a story. He wanted to do a 70 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:18.920 documentary about another murder in Hamilton, the nineteen seventy five 71 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:26.199 Easter massacre, in which a fella, James Urban Rupert, shot 72 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:30.319 eleven members of his family on cold, blustery Sunday after 73 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:34.199 East Easter afternoon. And he wanted to do a documentary 74 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:37.040 about that, And so I started doing a ton of 75 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:40.879 research into that, and just in the periphery of that 76 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:46.079 was all these other murders in Hamilton through the ages. 77 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.839 And this one really stuck out to me because of 78 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:54.279 the I call it Shakespearean. I wrote the book in 79 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:57.680 five chapters because it just strikes me as a kind 80 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:03.199 of a Shakespearean, very odd reaching drama. Not only was 81 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:08.319 there the murders that he confessed to, but because of 82 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:12.800 the nature of the coverage the newspapers from all over 83 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:17.759 the Midwest descended on Hamilton, and they were all buying for, 84 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:20.439 you know, some kind of hook or some kind of exclusive. 85 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:24.000 So there was a lot of newspaper coverage not only 86 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:27.959 of the crimes, but also of his family, dynamics and 87 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:31.240 other things that were going on in Hamilton at the time. 88 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.319 And so as I started launching into this career, the 89 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.360 second career of writing true crime, I wanted to do 90 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:43.279 the Rupert book, which I did, but it's not published yet, 91 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:47.040 But this one was a kind of a better sell 92 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:50.639 for me for the publishers I was working with because 93 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:55.079 of the real, truly historical nature of it having taken 94 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:58.560 place at the turn of the previous century. So that's 95 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:01.040 a long winded way of how I came about it. 96 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:06.279 Right, Let's talk about eighteen ninety four. As you opened 97 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.279 the book and you feature Hannah Goddard and she's twenty 98 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:13.399 one years old and she has two half sisters, and 99 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:18.959 she's going to Cincinnati for work. Tell us what kind 100 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:22.120 of work is she doing, and who she meets when 101 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:25.680 she's in Cincinnati, and what happens after she tell us 102 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:26.920 how she ends up meeting. 103 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.680 Okay, she goes to work in a restaurant as a waitress, 104 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:36.720 and one of the waitresses there was a lady by 105 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:39.160 the name of Mamie King. She was the hostess of 106 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:42.839 the restaurant where she worked, and she took Hannah and 107 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:47.360 a couple of other young girls under her wing, so 108 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:50.879 to speak, gave him a place to live. She was married, 109 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.439 her husband had a really good job, and so she 110 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.920 was just kind of taking care of these two young girls. 111 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:00.879 And it was through her association, through hands his association 112 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:05.319 with Mamie King, that she met Maimie's brother, Alfred Napp. 113 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:10.879 What did she know about Alfred Knapp at that time 114 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:12.120 and who was he? 115 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:18.040 Basically, well, Alfred Napp was kind of a strange character. 116 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:22.560 His family traveled a whole lot when he was young, 117 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:26.240 and it's not real clear why. His father was pretty 118 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:30.519 much a common laborer. I think the most the biggest 119 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:33.759 job he had was he was a conductor on a 120 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:35.959 what they called it the Incline. It was a street 121 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:39.040 car that went up a hill in Cincinnati. But he 122 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:43.160 grew up in various parts of Indiana and Ohio. He 123 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:48.759 was the oldest of five children, or three daughters and 124 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:54.319 two sons. Alfred was the oldest of them, and he 125 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:58.040 was kind of an itinerant drifter himself. Once he grew up, 126 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:02.600 he had a penchant for getting in trouble and he 127 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:09.800 did several terms in prison. And when he met Hannah 128 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.720 the first time, he was married to a young girl 129 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:17.439 named Jenny that he had met in Lawrenceburg, Indiana. She 130 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.959 was from Connorsville, Indiana, and he had married her, and 131 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:23.759 she stuck by him when he did a couple of 132 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:29.720 prison terms, and she turns up dead in the Cincinnati 133 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:34.600 Canal and it was ruled a suicide, and it would 134 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.360 come out that she was pregnant with Alfred's child and 135 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:41.639 didn't know what to do about it. And he went 136 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:45.759 into the Cincinnati in Choir offices to put an ad 137 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:49.639 in the paper looking for work, and when he came out, 138 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:54.039 she was gone, and a couple of days later they 139 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.120 dragged her body out of the canal. And this is 140 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:00.519 at the time that Hannah was living with him sister 141 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:06.039 many in Uh in Cumminsville, a northern suburb of Cincinnati, 142 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:13.480 and Uh he got to know Hannah through that association 143 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:19.600 and they married, despite May and Mamie's objections. Uh they 144 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:23.960 married about six weeks after Jenny Knapp was found in 145 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:24.440 the canal. 146 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:26.039 Mm hmm. 147 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:30.759 So where did he find work and how would you 148 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:34.000 characterize this this marriage? 149 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:40.120 Well, he uh, Alfred, he had this sort of fantasy 150 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:44.279 that he wanted to be in show business. He worked 151 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:47.799 for the There are a lot of you know, theaters 152 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:51.080 and opera houses in Cincinnati at the time, and he 153 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:54.360 would get work as a supernumerary, which would be, you know, 154 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:57.279 if it's a big battle scene, they've got guys hanging 155 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:01.360 around with in you know, Greek costumes and and carrying spears. 156 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:03.840 You know, they don't have any singing parts, but they 157 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:06.360 have to be part of the background. So he got 158 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:09.679 a lot of work with that. He also got a 159 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.159 lot of work with He worked for a couple of 160 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:17.799 circuses that would come through town. And I guess the 161 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:20.679 circus that they were talking about were like human oddities 162 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:23.000 and things of that sort. And one of them had 163 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:27.840 a beauty pageant as was part of their attraction, and 164 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.879 Alfred would get into a lot of trouble creeping on 165 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:34.080 the girls there. And he also got in a lot 166 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:38.000 of trouble for stealing from people there, and so he 167 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:41.639 did a couple of his He spent one year in 168 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:44.840 the pretty much in the Cincinnati Workhouse as a result 169 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:50.639 of his thievery. But he also did a lot of 170 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:56.480 odd jobs, you know, just common labor things, digging ditches 171 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:00.559 and shoveling gravel. And when he was in Hamilton for 172 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:03.519 a time, he drove a coal wagon that delivered cold 173 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:04.960 to people's houses. 174 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:11.279 So what did to Maimie and her husband, ed King? 175 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:16.039 They took in took in Hannah. Well, what did they 176 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:20.799 think of Alfred and how much did they interact? 177 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.919 Well, Alfred was apparently a frequent visitor to their house. 178 00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:31.000 He was living in Cincinnati between between his jail stints. 179 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.600 He would often come to Cincinnati to live. His parents 180 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:38.720 also lived there for a time, and his other sister, Sadie, 181 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.240 operated a candy shop there for a time, So he 182 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:48.600 was a frequent visitor to the King home. Ed King 183 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.399 was not a big fan of Alfred. He just thought 184 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.279 he was kind of a weird fella. And you know, 185 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.039 one of the things about Alfred that would come out 186 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:03.480 later is that he took a couple of blows to 187 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:06.879 the head when he was very young. I think one 188 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:09.480 time he fell off of a porch and was unconscious 189 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.399 for a few days, and another time he was kicked 190 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:15.720 kicked in the head by a horse, and in fact, 191 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:19.679 just getting a little ahead of ourselves here. His lawyer 192 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:22.200 had him cut his hair really short when he went 193 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:25.080 to trial so that they could see the hoof mark 194 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:29.440 that was embedded in the side of his head. So 195 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.840 he wasn't he wasn't a very bright fellow, but he 196 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:37.000 seemed to have, you know, like these savant tendencies in 197 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:41.120 that he had a really good memory about things, and 198 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.639 he would act out these stories and he would write plays. 199 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:48.720 Of course, he never got anything produced professionally, but this 200 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:51.919 was just kind of the way his fantasy mind worked. 201 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:54.960 Another thing about him that I thought was kind of 202 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:59.639 interesting is when he was staying in Cincinnati, his companions 203 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:03.320 were the children in the neighborhood, and he would would 204 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:05.960 hang out with them until he got into a little 205 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.759 bit of trouble for doing things like throwing rocks at 206 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:12.200 the women who worked in the factory when they came 207 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:16.600 out from doing their job, you know, very childish things 208 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.600 like that. So I think, you know, my opinion of 209 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:22.320 it is that that Alfred was kind of a you know, 210 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:26.120 a man boy. That he was, you know, kind of 211 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.120 kind of bright in some ways, but generally kind of 212 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:35.600 a stupid fella, and it kind of clumsy and and childish, 213 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:38.159 I think is the way that he comes across to me. 214 00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:43.840 You write about August eighth, eighteen ninety four, and there's 215 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:47.039 a guy fishing and he finds a body of a woman. 216 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:52.120 Tell us what happens with this inquiry into who this 217 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:53.279 woman that was found? 218 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:59.480 That woman you're talking about, his first wife, Jenny Knapp. Well, 219 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:01.679 they they fished her out of the body out of 220 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.720 the canal, and she had a lot of cuts and 221 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:10.320 her brasions and her head, you know, injuries to her head. 222 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:15.159 Most of that they attributed to, you know, being run 223 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:17.960 over by the canal boats or or the glass that 224 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:20.320 was embedded that was laying at the bottom of the 225 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:26.799 canal and things of that sort. So when they they 226 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:30.960 didn't really do an autopsy, but the post mortem examinations 227 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:37.080 they didn't see any real reason for a murder. In fact, 228 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.440 Mamie King and his soon to be wife, Hannah Knapp, 229 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:48.440 both testified at the coroner's inquest to Jenny's despondency, the 230 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:51.960 fact that she was pregnant with Alfred's child and really 231 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:56.840 didn't want to have a baby with him for obvious reasons. 232 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:58.840 He couldn't hold a job. He was in jail, in 233 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:03.519 and out of jail all of the life, so it 234 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:06.759 was ruled a suicide. 235 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.879 Now you talk about that they were married, and this 236 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.039 is only five weeks after what you had mentioned, five 237 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:18.720 weeks after Jenny's death. So the couple winds up in 238 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.879 West Indianapolis, Indiana, in the summer of eighteen ninety five. 239 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:27.240 And then you introduced thirteen year old Bessie Draper and 240 00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:31.200 she had come to West Indianapolis from Tara Hot to 241 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:34.399 live with her aunt. She wanted to get a job 242 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:39.799 to send money back home. So tell us about August 243 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:43.320 twenty ninth and what happens with Bessie Draper and who 244 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:43.879 does she meet. 245 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:53.679 Well, on August twenty ninth, Bessie Draper met a fella 246 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:59.840 who was struggling to move a dresser in a wheelbarrow, 247 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:05.519 and she helped him out and he followed her around, 248 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.440 or he kind of took her around through uh through 249 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:15.399 a lot of back alleys and in West Indianapolis, and 250 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:20.240 the further they went, the more scared she got. And 251 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:25.879 eventually he led her down into a dead end alley 252 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.480 that had a stable, and she really got frightened then 253 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:36.279 and took off running and and escaped him. But she 254 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.720 knew where he lived because she'd helped him deliver this dresser. 255 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.039 And so she went to the police and told them 256 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:46.879 of what happened. And so with one of the police matrons, 257 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:50.879 they arranged a little sting and that she went to 258 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:53.559 the house and she was going to signal to the 259 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:57.159 matron if the man who came out was Alfred Nap 260 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:01.000 and then they would arrest him. And so that's what 261 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:06.720 they did, and they arrested him there, and he did 262 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:10.759 another prison term for assault there for attempted to assault 263 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.359 with her. 264 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:16.519 Now you talk about this, he's forty years old and 265 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:19.880 he gets convicted and he's thrown in prison. He serves 266 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:24.279 seven years. Most of his adult life was spent in 267 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:27.759 prison for petty larcenies and assaults on women and girls. 268 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:32.200 What happens when he gets out of prison Hannah. 269 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.680 He was married to Hannah at the time. And the 270 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:40.759 last prison sentence he did was for assaulting a teacher 271 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:45.319 in Burnett Woods and Cincinnati. And the story goes that 272 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:49.160 he was just had this wagon that he was making 273 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:53.519 some deliveries and he just stopped and got out and 274 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:58.000 started chasing this woman who was a school teacher, and 275 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:00.960 he ended up going to the Ohio Penn Tentary for that, 276 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:05.759 and Hannah, to her credit, God lover, she's stuck by him. 277 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:10.920 And she was living again with Mamie and Ed King 278 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.319 in Cumminsville when he was due to get out of prison. 279 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.759 But the Kings didn't want Alfred to come and live 280 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.799 with them, so Hannah moved back to Hamilton, Ohio, my 281 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:27.119 hometown to live with her uncle Charlie, and she was 282 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:30.559 setting up house there. She had two half sisters who 283 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.000 lived there and so it was kind of her home. 284 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.319 So she moved back in with Uncle Charlie. So when 285 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:42.039 Alfred got out of prison from assaulting this teacher and 286 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:46.079 they took a house on They lived with Charlie for 287 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:48.519 a little while, and then they took the upper floor 288 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:52.759 of a house on South Fourth Street in Hamilton, which 289 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:57.920 happened to be next door to Hamilton Mayor Charles Bosh. 290 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:02.000 Charlie Bosh, and Charlie Boss thought that he was kind 291 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:07.440 of a sweet but odd fella. He noted later on 292 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.039 that when Alfred was driving his coal truck, as he 293 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.559 would come down the street, he would ring the bell or, 294 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:17.640 you know, and if Hannah didn't come out to give 295 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:20.240 him a little kiss, he would park his horse in 296 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.440 front of the house and run in, and he'd be 297 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:24.680 in there for ten or fifteen minutes, and then he'd 298 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:28.759 come back out all turpy and happy. And so they 299 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.759 were living seemingly a really good life, you know, for 300 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:35.440 who they were and for the time they lived in 301 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.519 there on south Forth Street. 302 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:49.559 Pause for a moment for this commercial. 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We're prohibited by eighteen plus terms and 327 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:57.039 conditioned to plus se web see for details. 328 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:00.359 He's got the mayor of this wash guy, I think, 329 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:05.680 and he's not such a bad guy. What happens next 330 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:07.839 with Alfred Knapp. 331 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:16.640 Well, he's never really clear about why he did it, 332 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.799 but one morning, just before Christmas, he says he woke 333 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:24.319 up in the middle of the night and strangled Hannah 334 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:30.240 in her sleep. Now, if we kind of go back 335 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:37.519 to his childishness, his childlike nature, I think he or 336 00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:41.079 someone else referred to it as he did it with 337 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:43.680 giving no more thought than a boy pulling the wings 338 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:47.480 off of a fly to see what would happen. And 339 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:50.839 you know, I don't know. He was never very clear 340 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.880 about it, but that's what he did. He strangled her 341 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:58.119 in her sleep, and then early that morning he went 342 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:02.680 around town. He rented a spring wagon, you know, just 343 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.400 like a flatbed wagon, and a horse. He went to 344 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:08.680 a shoe store and got They kept calling her the 345 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.319 shoe box, but I'm guessing it was a crate that 346 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:16.079 they shipped boxes of shoes in, right, and took it 347 00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:19.960 back to their house on South fourth Street. And he 348 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:24.559 got the box upstairs, but uh, and he put Hannah's 349 00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:27.920 body and some other things in it, and it was 350 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:30.640 too heavy for him to get it downstairs. She was 351 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:33.279 she was a petite girl, but still he had her 352 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:35.680 all folded up in this box with some other stuff, 353 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.039 and he couldn't get it down. So he even went 354 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:40.799 so far as to hire a young man who was 355 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:44.319 passing by, and gave him a nickel to help him 356 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.640 carry this box downstairs. And so the young man did, 357 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:53.680 and then they saw him driving off in the spring 358 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.720 wagon toward the river. He said he was going to 359 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.680 deliver some stuff to Sim's Corner, which was like a 360 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:05.480 little village about four miles to Hamilton. He said he 361 00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:08.599 was going there, but he wasn't gone long enough to 362 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.200 do that. And so when he came back and brought 363 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:13.640 the horse and the buggy, the horse and the spring 364 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:16.839 wagon back to the stable, they accused him of running 365 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.279 the horse really hard, and he said, no, I did. 366 00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:21.559 I just you know, I just got there fast, you know. 367 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:25.119 And so he came back. Now, then he went to 368 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:29.559 visit the Kings in Cumminsville and he gets down there 369 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:32.920 and they see him coming up the walk and he's gone. 370 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:39.519 And Alfred goes to says to the Kings, well where's Hannah. 371 00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:43.039 And they said, well, well, Alfred, she's not here. And 372 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:46.200 he thinks, well that's odd, or he says, well that's odd. 373 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:49.240 I was going to meet her here. And so he 374 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:53.559 stayed in town and celebrated Christmas with them, and there 375 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:56.960 was a general presumption that Hannah had had enough and 376 00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:01.440 just left and didn't want wanting the Finder anymore. So 377 00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:05.440 that was kind of the presumption that they had. After Christmas, 378 00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:09.519 Alfred goes back to Hamilton and settles up his affairs there. 379 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:13.599 He sells some of Hannah's clothes to pay off the rent, 380 00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:17.599 and then he just kind of disappears for a while 381 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:24.920 with no sign of Hannah and the King's being very suspicious, 382 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:29.160 especially ed He was very suspicious about what might have 383 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:32.559 happened to Hannah. 384 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:35.880 What does he? What does he tell? What does he 385 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:38.359 tell her? In terms? What does he tell Edward to 386 00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:49.279 try to convince Edward that he's innocent? What did he? 387 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.039 What did he? What was the indication that you said 388 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.839 that Edward was suspicious? And so he does confront him 389 00:24:55.960 --> 00:25:01.240 and says to Nap, where where where's Hannah? Why isn't 390 00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:04.400 she you know, hasn't she been here? Why why isn't she here? 391 00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:08.519 And so he explains about a note? So what is 392 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:12.839 this note that he explains? And how convinced is Edward 393 00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:15.759 of his innocence or his guilt after this? 394 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:21.039 Well, he's not convinced. He's not convinced of his of that. 395 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:26.599 I'm trying to find the note here in my book. 396 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:32.079 I'm sorry, but everybody. 397 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.640 You Righte that he played along with NAP's story and 398 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:39.920 asked him to stay for supper, So he wanted to 399 00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:43.400 again question him in as much as he could. He 400 00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:47.079 was convinced that Nap was guilty, but he wanted to 401 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:50.599