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Speaker 7: You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking
Speaker 7: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 7: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 7: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 7: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 7: journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 8: Good evening, they watched the nineteen ninety six movie Scream
Speaker 8: over and over again. One of the boys was truly
Speaker 8: infatuated with the movie and wanted to be part of it. He,
Speaker 8: along with his two friends, lured two teenage girls to
Speaker 8: a local park in Salem, New Hampshire, late one night,
Speaker 8: where the girls were brutally murdered by being stabbed over
Speaker 8: and over again. Read how they were tracked to Michigan
Speaker 8: from New Hampshire and how they were brought finally to justice.
Speaker 8: The book they were featuring this evening is Murder by
Speaker 8: the Bathhouse Door, The true story of the murder of
Speaker 8: two teenage girls by three boys who wanted to play
Speaker 8: Scream with my special guest, author John Tumasy welcome to
Speaker 8: the program, and thank you very much for this interview.
Speaker 8: John Toumassi, Hi Dan, how you doing, and thank you
Speaker 8: for having me.
Speaker 6: It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 8: Thank you so much, and congratulations on this book Murdered
Speaker 8: by the Bathhouse Door.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 8: Let's talk about as you do, as you write in
Speaker 8: the book Fall nineteen eighty four, tell us your position professionally,
Speaker 8: your teaching position, and your profession police wise, law enforcement wise.
Speaker 6: Okay, I had just been promoted to sageant in nineteen
Speaker 6: eighty three in the Sale and Police department. I was
Speaker 6: the patrol sageant on the five to one shift. I
Speaker 6: had started teaching in nineteen eighty one. I was teaching
Speaker 6: an at that time Northern Essex Community College. I started
Speaker 6: in the business department and in nineteen eighty four they
Speaker 6: had lost a couple of criminal justice instructors and asked
Speaker 6: me if I could transition to CJ. So I was
Speaker 6: teaching two courses at Northern Essex. They were intro to
Speaker 6: Criminology and Police in a Modern Society, and I was
Speaker 6: teaching a guess I was teaching part time.
Speaker 8: One of your lectures you spoke about was serial killers
Speaker 8: and you talked about whether they were generally sociopaths or psychopaths,
Speaker 8: where not all psychopaths are serial killers, but the thing
Speaker 8: that was a commonality was the lack of conscience, and
Speaker 8: you attributed this to Your undergraduate major was behavioral psychology
Speaker 8: at the University of New Hampshire.
Speaker 6: That's correct. I got that in nineteen seventies and I
Speaker 6: went on to get an MBA. I've got to tie
Speaker 6: in police work. Psychology was a really good major to have,
Speaker 6: and one of the things we talked about was serial
Speaker 6: killers and sociopaths and psychopaths have a lot in common.
Speaker 6: Probably the biggest difference is a psychopath doesn't have a
Speaker 6: conscience and could be very charming and alluring. Ted Bundy
Speaker 6: was a perfect example of that, also very intelligent. Ted
Speaker 6: was going through his law degree, and I think this
Speaker 6: was very much the case with the boys involved here,
Speaker 6: especially Eric Jellanouski.
Speaker 8: Let's get to these three boys in this story. You
Speaker 8: take us to August nineteen ninety seven and six people
Speaker 8: living in a motel six motel room in Leominster, Massachusetts
Speaker 8: and three friends. So introduce the three friends that are there,
Speaker 8: and also the fourth Jacob Romero, and tell us the
Speaker 8: situation they had themselves there in this motel under what
Speaker 8: circumstances do they find themselves there?
Speaker 6: These were eighteen and nineteen year old boys who didn't
Speaker 6: really have a steady job. James Grant, one of the
Speaker 6: three boys, had just lost his job for theft. He
Speaker 6: had stolen five hundred dollars and that's how they were
Speaker 6: able to afford the motel room. I think at that
Speaker 6: time Motel six was only charging thirty five or forty
Speaker 6: dollars a night. Eric Jelanouski had just gotten the army
Speaker 6: earlier that spring, and he was scheduled for advanced infantry
Speaker 6: training in September October. So they were just floating from
Speaker 6: place to place, and in this hotel room. They had
Speaker 6: another friend who was there, Jacob Romero, had nothing to
Speaker 6: do with the murders, but a couple girls came and
Speaker 6: went too. Over those ten days they were there, and
Speaker 6: while they were there they lived off essentially theft. They
Speaker 6: would steal gasoline, they would steal food from grocery stores,
Speaker 6: and they, especially Jealanuski, were on drugs and drugs of
Speaker 6: choice were cocaine and meth and occasionally marijuana. To come
Speaker 6: down from his highs, but he wrote other things as
Speaker 6: he watched the nineteen ninety six movie Scream over and
Speaker 6: over and over again along with Scarface, and he would
Speaker 6: he knew pretty much all the lines by hot by
Speaker 6: around the sixth seventh day, as the movie is playing,
Speaker 6: he'd be saying the lines along with the movie. The
Speaker 6: other kids watched the movie too, several times, but nowhere
Speaker 6: near as much as Jollanuski.
Speaker 8: You write about a specific scene in the movie Scream
Speaker 8: that Eric Jelanuski especially appreciated. What was that one scene?
Speaker 6: That was the scene when they stabbed one of their
Speaker 6: victims and tasted the blood or it made like they
Speaker 6: were tasting the blood. He wanted to do that, and
Speaker 6: at one point in the future Ducett in fact did
Speaker 6: do it. Who was the third person there? Chris Dussette,
Speaker 6: James Grant and Eric Jellanuski with the three boys.
Speaker 8: Let's get back to this motel. They exit this motel
Speaker 8: in ten days, they run out of money and the
Speaker 8: three boys go one way and Jacob Romero another. And
Speaker 8: as you say that, Eric had watch us over and
Speaker 8: over again estimated twenty times while at the motel. Now
Speaker 8: let's get to as you write the murders Saturday, September thirteenth,
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety seven in Salem, and this is the day anyway,
Speaker 8: that Dorothy Myers was out walking her dog when she
Speaker 8: spotted a girl lying on the ground about forty feet
Speaker 8: from the road in Salem. Tell us what is the
Speaker 8: condition of the woman that's found by police and how
Speaker 8: do police proceed?
Speaker 6: Well, she was found at Hedgehog Pock. Hedgehog Pock has
Speaker 6: a little pawn they are called hedgehog Pawn, and it
Speaker 6: was frequented by pretty much everyone late at night. It
Speaker 6: was frequented it a lot by juveniles, young adults. And
Speaker 6: Dorothy is It's about sixty thirty in the morning. It's
Speaker 6: a chilling morning, and she's walking dog and about thirty
Speaker 6: feet off the road she sees the body of a
Speaker 6: girl and the girl isn't moving. She didn't get any
Speaker 6: closer and looked natural to her, So she ran across
Speaker 6: the street to I believe it was Clem's Variety, and
Speaker 6: they called the police station. Two officers went down Bucky
Speaker 6: Melissa's and John Lozowski and discovered that she was in
Speaker 6: fact dead. Full lividity had set in. She was very cold,
Speaker 6: to the touch, and it was it was in a
Speaker 6: pool of blood, so it was evident it was a
Speaker 6: murder scene. They immediately secured the scene and called for
Speaker 6: more people. In addition to the Attorney General's office in
Speaker 6: the state of New Hampshire, whenever there's a murder, the
Speaker 6: Attorney General's Office is contacted and they pretty much run
Speaker 6: or direct the investigation.
Speaker 8: And that person's Pat Donovan, and you introduced him as
Speaker 8: this central character and this investigation and this story obviously right.
Speaker 6: Pat used to be a prosecut for the Sale and
Speaker 6: Police Department for several years, very well liked and highly respected.
Speaker 6: From there he went on to a private practice with
Speaker 6: a friend of his, and he was originally picked for
Speaker 6: the Attorney General's position or Assistant Attorney General. He is
Speaker 6: currently sitting on the New Hampshire Supreme Court. So Pat
Speaker 6: is very highly respected and very competent.
Speaker 8: You also introduced a state medical Examiner, Thomas Andrew, but
Speaker 8: also senior detective Paul Marshon Arrives, also Kevin Swift, along
Speaker 8: with Roger Boodeau.
Speaker 6: Roger Boudet, that's correct.
Speaker 8: And these guys you right, are all twenty year veteran
Speaker 8: detectives all highly decorated, and you say that. Detective Marshawan
Speaker 8: immediately decides to check out the nearby bath house on
Speaker 8: the western side of the pond, about seventy eighty yards
Speaker 8: from the body. What does he discover at the bathhouse?
Speaker 6: That's gooret Paul has unbelievable instincts. He's by the bath
Speaker 6: house door and he he sees another body. There's a
Speaker 6: fireplace with a large hot in it, and this is
Speaker 6: where we found the body. The bonnie was not only
Speaker 6: stabbed multiple times, but looked like Potiver's head was carved in.
Speaker 6: And this turned out to be the case that Eric
Speaker 6: Jealanuski had stabbed her multiple times. This was Kimberly Parah
Speaker 6: and she was gurgling and he ended up grabbing her
Speaker 6: and bashing her head against the fireside.
Speaker 8: High police find Marshon and Swift and the others find
Speaker 8: a fingerprint in blood. Where is this fingerprint found?
Speaker 6: It's on her leg, Kimberly Phara's leg. What we found
Speaker 6: out that Jalanuski did later on was he physically drabbed
Speaker 6: a drag the body and it was Jealinuski's fingerprint.
Speaker 8: Now, how do police proceed with this in terms of
Speaker 8: determining any kind of suspects other than securing this crime
Speaker 8: scene and setting in forensic and doing them usual parts
Speaker 8: of the investigation. They do, what is the first thing
Speaker 8: they do well?
Speaker 6: They ended up securing the scene, started a search partty
Speaker 6: and the search was expanded the next day, and they
Speaker 6: didn't really find anything. However, what was interesting was they
Speaker 6: had stole stolen Kimberly's Phara's car. The three boys and
Speaker 6: two girls, Kimberly Pharre and LeeAnne Millius, along with Eric Jellanuski,
Speaker 6: James Grant and Chris Dussett I went to the park
Speaker 6: that night. They were drinking beers and they were just
Speaker 6: potty and until they decided to kill them, which was
Speaker 6: probably shortly after midnight. We were contacted by Oxford Police.
Speaker 6: They had Kimberly's car was put out as stolen and
Speaker 6: Oxford police had already found it and then they got
Speaker 6: the hit on nc I see the National Crime Information Center.
Speaker 6: They contacted us and Roger bow Day and palmsh and
Speaker 6: once they processed the scene along with the State Police
Speaker 6: crime lab, they ended up going down to Oxford and
Speaker 6: seeing the car.
Speaker 8: Now tell us about the state of the car. What
Speaker 8: these boys had attempted, but we might have missed that
Speaker 8: there was a discovery of a wallet at the bathhouse.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's correct. I'd like to say we discovered who
Speaker 6: they were by really fantastic police work, which that was there,
Speaker 6: But it was a lot of stupidity on half of
Speaker 6: the boys. On behalf of the boys. They had Eric
Speaker 6: Jellanouski's car plus Kimberly's car, and they were going to
Speaker 6: drive out to Michigan, close to the Upper Peninsula in Michigan.
Speaker 6: Chris Dussette was there originally and his mom lived there
Speaker 6: up in mantin Michigan. So when they found Kimberly's car,
Speaker 6: the boys they tried to torture. There was a rag
Speaker 6: that was soaked in light of fluid. They stuck it
Speaker 6: in the gas tank the gas cap and lit it
Speaker 6: on fire and then took off. We were able to
Speaker 6: ascertain this later by James Grant's confession. So the car
Speaker 6: didn't burn, however, Roger bo did. They started doing a
Speaker 6: very cursory search of the car and they found a
Speaker 6: wallet in the back and the wallet belonged to Chris Ducet.
Speaker 6: They were able to track down that Chris Dussett was
Speaker 6: from Michigan. He had a prior record. He was in
Speaker 6: he did spend some time in jail for breaking and
Speaker 6: entering and malicious damage of a high school. And from
Speaker 6: Chris's mother we were able to ascertain the other two friends,
Speaker 6: James Grant and Eric Jealanuski. As it turned out, Eric
Speaker 6: Jalanuski's mother worked at Fort Devons and we were able
Speaker 6: to get a lot of information about the three boys
Speaker 6: from her.
Speaker 8: What did she say about the boys, what was their
Speaker 8: behavior like, what did they do when they got to
Speaker 8: her house? What did she know? What did she tell them?
Speaker 6: What was interesting that Ericuski's mother said was Chris is
Speaker 6: a good boy, but he doesn't have a conscience, which
Speaker 6: when Mark Kavna, who was also a detective assigned to
Speaker 6: the investigation, he had interviewed jell Nuski's mother, I said, Wow,
Speaker 6: that's classic psychopath. So they made it out to Manton, Michigan,
Speaker 6: to Chris Dussette's mother and they spent the night in
Speaker 6: the car because she didn't want them in the house.
Speaker 6: She had previously been contacted by Sale and police and
Speaker 6: County Sheriff detective Sergeant Dan O'Reilly from Michigan, and they said,
Speaker 6: you know, we're looking at your boys. We expect them
Speaker 6: to come to your house, and they're wanted for questioning
Speaker 6: in a murder of investigation. So at that point she
Speaker 6: did feed them, gave him sandwiches and food, but they
Speaker 6: had to sleep in the car that night. Early the
Speaker 6: next morning, before she got up, the boys left and
Speaker 6: went further inland. They were looking for a house to
Speaker 6: break into.
Speaker 8: Let's go back a second to the medical examiner's autopsy.
Speaker 8: What does he determine about the nature of the stab
Speaker 8: wounds and the killers.
Speaker 6: This was interesting because he saw three different stab wounds.
Speaker 6: He saw the stab wounds on Kimberly's body were with
Speaker 6: a lot of anger and a lot of thrust. They
Speaker 6: went very deep. The stab wounds on Leanne's body, some
Speaker 6: of them were very superficial, more like slashes that did
Speaker 6: break the skin but didn't penetrate deep. And there were
Speaker 6: others that were deep but not as deep or as
Speaker 6: what he said was vicious as those on Kimberly's body.
Speaker 6: So we were looking at two or three At that
Speaker 6: point we knew that we're quite possibly looking at two
Speaker 6: or three different assailants.
Speaker 8: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for the messages.
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Speaker 8: Now back to the search for these three killers or
Speaker 8: there are three suspects, but some really good suspects. They are,
Speaker 8: so they speak to Mary Wallace and Mary Wallace tells
Speaker 8: them a few things about the motel stay and sort
Speaker 8: of the relationship that the girls have with the boys.
Speaker 8: Tell us what Mary Wallace has to say, Well.
Speaker 6: James Grant had dated Leanne earlier in that summer. Alene
Speaker 6: had a friend from Fitchburg who she went down to visit,
Speaker 6: and James was from Fitchburg, and they went out several times,
Speaker 6: and Leanne didn't like James as much as James did.
Speaker 6: James wanted a romantic relationship, Leanne just wanted it as
Speaker 6: a friend. But it appeared that weekend when the boys
Speaker 6: were up that Friday, Leanne was attracted more to Chris
Speaker 6: Dussette and Kimberly to Eric Joellanowski.
Speaker 8: Now soon some crime scenes or scenes related to the
Speaker 8: crime were discovered. Right about a person named Bob Abbott.
Speaker 8: He's a gas station attendant and he goes to the
Speaker 8: restroom and discovers a bloody scene. This is an andover, that's.
Speaker 6: Correct, just south on Route ninety three from Salem.
Speaker 8: So you say it's determined later it's lee Ane Milliss's
Speaker 8: and Kimberly Farah's blood. And now you have detectives Marshawn
Speaker 8: and Boudet on way to Oxford, Massachusetts to meet with
Speaker 8: the local police and Massachusetts State Police. And that was
Speaker 8: about the taking a look at the car and examining
Speaker 8: the car forensically tell us about the German shepherd and
Speaker 8: what this canine unit finds.
Speaker 6: Well, along they're searching for keys and Paul Pryor to
Speaker 6: becoming a detective Palmash and he was a canine officer,
Speaker 6: so he was very aware of how canines act, particularly
Speaker 6: on a track. So they went to the woods and
Speaker 6: the canine alerted and started looking up into a tree
Speaker 6: and then put his front pause on the tree and
Speaker 6: the handle is said, now, come on, let's go, and
Speaker 6: Paul goes wait a second, he's alerding. There's something up
Speaker 6: in the tree. So Paul climbed the tree and found
Speaker 6: the keys to Kimberly Scott that the boys had thrown
Speaker 6: in the woods.
Speaker 8: Interesting, let's get back to the search for these boys.
Speaker 8: After they are at Deborah Brackle's place. Police estimate that
Speaker 8: they or they believe that they're still in the area.
Speaker 8: So how do they proceed and what happens and what
Speaker 8: reports do they get about the whereabouts of these boys.
Speaker 6: Well, the boys went about a mile down the road
Speaker 6: and there's a lot of hunting and fishing camps in
Speaker 6: that area that are you know, people come and stay
Speaker 6: a week or maybe a weekend, but they're for the
Speaker 6: most part deserted. So they put up to one place
Speaker 6: and broke into it and a nighbor came out and
Speaker 6: he saw the car and the boys had broken into
Speaker 6: the place and he thought he saw people walking inside.
Speaker 6: So he knows the owner of this hunting cap and
Speaker 6: then he calls him and asks, is there's supposed to
Speaker 6: be anyone in your place? And he goes no, So
Speaker 6: he called the county sheriffs, who responded. However, the boys
Speaker 6: had noticed that the neighbor was looking, so they left
Speaker 6: their car and they went through the woods and maybe
Speaker 6: half a mile down the road broke into another the camp.
Speaker 8: So tell us about the moment when they are arrested
Speaker 8: and the officers are that are there and the reaction
Speaker 8: from the boys themselves.
Speaker 6: Well, what we had was they broke into another camp
Speaker 6: and got a tip they may have been there. So
Speaker 6: Paul Mashan and Kevin Swift had flown out to Michigan
Speaker 6: and Dan they hooked up with Detective Sogeant Dan O'Reilly.
Speaker 6: So they went to the house and there was already
Speaker 6: a state trooper there, and the state trooper said, no,
Speaker 6: I checked the house and I got nothing. So Paul, again,
Speaker 6: this was a two story camp. And again Paul has
Speaker 6: very good instincts. He's looking, he's looking at the house
Speaker 6: and all the shades are up except for one window.
Speaker 6: On the second floor, and he points that out to
Speaker 6: the other guys and he's grabs Dan O'Reilly and everyone
Speaker 6: called him raid I O'Reilly. After the personal mash. They
Speaker 6: go around the house and there's a window that's broken,
Speaker 6: and through the broken window they could reach the door
Speaker 6: knob for the door. So what they did was Kevin
Speaker 6: Swift and Paul secured opposite corners of the house. Bou
Speaker 6: Dan O'Reilly and a couple of state troopers went in
Speaker 6: and in the room that the shade was drawn was
Speaker 6: where they found the three boys.
Speaker 8: Right away, you say about Paul Marshawn's instincts. Right away,
Speaker 8: he thinks that he's going to take Grant with him.
Speaker 8: So they separate the three boys, and Marshawn's instinct is
Speaker 8: too to take James Grant with him, likely likely with
Speaker 8: the idea if there's going to be somebody to confess
Speaker 8: out of the three, to assess who might be that person,
Speaker 8: And Marshawn instinctively thought, James Grant.
Speaker 6: That's correct, that's great. He had him in his car
Speaker 6: and they're on their way back to the station to
Speaker 6: get booked, and now he's telling you you could be
Speaker 6: in a lot of trouble, But why don't you guys
Speaker 6: who are going to confess? And the first one that confesses,
Speaker 6: I can't promise you anything, but chances are you'll get
Speaker 6: off a lot lighter than the other two. At that time,
Speaker 6: New Hampshire did have the death penalty. We no longer
Speaker 6: have it now.
Speaker 8: So despite this warning that he could be in a
Speaker 8: lot of trouble for not telling the truth, they're not
Speaker 8: coming forward. First, what does James Grant initially do?
Speaker 6: Well, like all the others, he said, he's got nothing
Speaker 6: to say. That the boys made up a story that
Speaker 6: they were telling the event that they got caught, and
Speaker 6: the story was, well, Lianne's boy Leanne had a boyfriend
Speaker 6: at the time, and the story they gave was, oh no,
Speaker 6: it wasn't us. We left the girls before midnight. They
Speaker 6: were still alive and Liann's boyfriend was supposed to come
Speaker 6: there and he's probably the one who killed both of
Speaker 6: them in a jealous rage.
Speaker 8: So obviously they have the medical examiner's report they are
Speaker 8: doing as part of the investigation. They're speaking to a
Speaker 8: lot of people to determine what could be the motive
Speaker 8: of this incredible double murder. So what do police do
Speaker 8: with this initial interview and what are the how cooperative
Speaker 8: are Chris Ducett and Eric Jelaneuski.
Speaker 6: Chris Ducett was the toughest one right from the get go.
Speaker 6: He gave no indication he was going to say anything
Speaker 6: or confess and that was pretty much the case. He
Speaker 6: didn't do anything. Jelanowski he went hot and cold. You know.
Speaker 6: He initially he was Okay, I've got nothing to say,
Speaker 6: and I know he's stuck to the same story. However,
Speaker 6: the boys had initially not waived extradition because they didn't
Speaker 6: realize they were going to get a lawyer in New Hampshire.
Speaker 6: But it was when it was explained to them that yeah,
Speaker 6: you're going to get a lawyer, they waived extradition. And
Speaker 6: on the way to the airport from the county jail,
Speaker 6: raid Ira O'Reilly was driving. He and his partner were
Speaker 6: in the front seat. Grant was handcuffed in the back
Speaker 6: and he says, hey, listen. Grant is saying this, I
Speaker 6: have to come clean, and ray I says, well, don't
Speaker 6: talk to us. What you want to do is talk
Speaker 6: to Paul Mashan actor Mashan, And he said the same
Speaker 6: Now He kept saying I want to come clean, over
Speaker 6: and over again to Mashan when he was out of
Speaker 6: earshot of the boys, and Paul said, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 6: to contact the Attorney General. I can't promise you anything,
Speaker 6: but as soon as we get to the station to
Speaker 6: sail In Police Station, we'll interview you and the Assistant
Speaker 6: Attorney General Pat Donovan can give you a deal.
Speaker 8: Now, what was the sentence as you talked about, the
Speaker 8: death penalty was available at that time in North Hampshire.
Speaker 8: But what were the conditions for these guys to be
Speaker 8: eligible for the death penalty and what was the others?
Speaker 8: What was the sentence in New Hampshire at that time
Speaker 8: for a conviction of first degree murder.
Speaker 6: The conviction of first degree murder at that time, you
Speaker 6: could either get the death penalty or you could get
Speaker 6: life with no chance of parole. What you need is
Speaker 6: you need some criteria in order to get the murder punishment.
Speaker 6: It would either have to be rape or it would
Speaker 6: have to be killing a cop or killing a congressman.
Speaker 6: Those were the conditions that were necessary in order to
Speaker 6: get the death penalty. And there was in an autopsy
Speaker 6: that was performed the following day. There was no indication
Speaker 6: of rape on either girls, so they were going for
Speaker 6: life without parole. Kimberly's dad really wanted the death penalty, however,
Speaker 6: it just couldn't be done giving new Hampshire law.
Speaker 8: Now, Grant agrees to talk and they want details of
Speaker 8: what happened, actually happened, so he's able to do that,
Speaker 8: and he gives a graphic description of what happened that night.
Speaker 8: First off, he tells about the murder weapon, where it went,
Speaker 8: and how he got it in the first place. Tell
Speaker 8: us what he said about the gaining of the murder
Speaker 8: weapon and things related to this weapon and its use
Speaker 8: that night.
Speaker 6: Well, the murder weapon was a punch knife and essentially
Speaker 6: what it is, it's a double edged knife with a
Speaker 6: hand on it. And he found it when they were
Speaker 6: in Leanne's room at her house. The three boys and
Speaker 6: two girls were they and he motioned to Jalinowski and
Speaker 6: Jelenewski says, Jack, get the knife, and he figured he
Speaker 6: Grant figured, okay, we're going to use this knife in
Speaker 6: a robbery. He had no idea at the time that
Speaker 6: it was going to be used in the murder of
Speaker 6: the two girls.
Speaker 8: What did James Grant say, in terms of the disposal
Speaker 8: of that weapon, you write in this book that there
Speaker 8: was an idea shared by police officers, including yourself, that
Speaker 8: they might have disposed of the knife in a hedgehog pond,
Speaker 8: and in experienced scuba diver you went and searched for
Speaker 8: that and were unsuccessful in finding that weapon in that pawn.
Speaker 8: So I guess it would be very very crucial information
Speaker 8: to find out what happened to that murder weapon. According
Speaker 8: to James Grant.
Speaker 6: Well, what happened was the boys went to that mobile
Speaker 6: station in Andover, mass to wash up, and they didn't
Speaker 6: do a very good job of cleaning up after themselves
Speaker 6: because it was blood found all over the room. From there,
Speaker 6: one of the boys was a little familiar with Lawrence, Jeleanwski,
Speaker 6: and they drove from Andover east to Lawrence on what
Speaker 6: was called River Road. They found an industrial park right
Speaker 6: on the town line between Lawrence and Andover, and they
Speaker 6: went behind one of the buildings. Jealanuski went into the woods.
Speaker 6: There was a path right by a basketball court. He
Speaker 6: went into the woods and he ended up wrapping the
Speaker 6: knife in a bloody T shirt and throwing it into
Speaker 6: a tree.
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Speaker 8: have the idea about the murder weapon. Again in an
Speaker 8: incredible story about the canine unit remarkably finding this knife.
Speaker 8: Tell us about that.
Speaker 6: The story that Grant gave us was he gave us
Speaker 6: directions to the industrial park where they dumped the knife,
Speaker 6: and he said, we went behind the third or fourth building,
Speaker 6: and behind that building there was a basketball court and
Speaker 6: a brightly colored dumpster. So Fredril, detective Fredri Al got
Speaker 6: together with some Andover detectives, and they went to that
Speaker 6: industrial park and the third building on the right did
Speaker 6: in fact have a basketball court and a brightly colored dumpster.
Speaker 6: There was a massa police canine and right by the
Speaker 6: basketball court there was a path. So the canine started
Speaker 6: on the path, good doggy, and they came to a
Speaker 6: tree and the way Freddie described it, they saw the
Speaker 6: bloody T shirt in the tree. It was a long
Speaker 6: sleeve to T shirt with one of the arms pointing down.
Speaker 6: Right under one of the arms pointing down on the
Speaker 6: ground was the murder weapon.
Speaker 8: Part of James Grant's confession was to give the details
Speaker 8: of the double murder that night, but he also talks
Speaker 8: about the actual what Eric had said, what Chris had said,
Speaker 8: what they wanted him to do as being part of
Speaker 8: this crime, What was part of the confession in terms
Speaker 8: of his culpability and any semblance a motive of why
Speaker 8: these women, these two young girls were killed.
Speaker 6: Well, to listen to him talk, he was pushed into
Speaker 6: it by Jalanuski in duce Set. Jealanuski killed Kimberly Farah
Speaker 6: maybe half an hour or so before Leanne was killed,
Speaker 6: and the boys came over and talked to him in
Speaker 6: Brant and Jellanowski said, this is how Leanne has to look.
Speaker 6: So they went back there and to listen to Grant's confession.
Speaker 6: He was forced into it, according to him, and he
Speaker 6: only stabbed Leanne after Ducet had stabbed her repeatedly and
Speaker 6: killed her. That was his confession.
Speaker 8: Initially, with this confession, we know that he had been
Speaker 8: threatened with life with no parole. But what was the
Speaker 8: confession going to get him in terms of a sentence?
Speaker 6: What was it was going to get him twenty five
Speaker 6: years in jail with the chance of parole after that.
Speaker 8: Now, based on this you have to go through a
Speaker 8: grand jury potential indictment. We can suffice to say that
Speaker 8: they were successful in the grand jury indictments. Tell us
Speaker 8: about the grand jury indictments for all three, and before
Speaker 8: we talk about the trial itself.
Speaker 6: All three were indicted. So the deal for Grant was, Okay,
Speaker 6: you've got to testify a trial twenty five years, as
Speaker 6: with the chance of parole after that. Chellaneuski, his lawyer,
Speaker 6: Andrew Katrupi, who's very well respected amongst cops, and not
Speaker 6: all defense attorneys are, but he's very highly respected, was
Speaker 6: able to get Jeleanouski to confess, to make a confession,
Speaker 6: and in return for that confession he would get thirty
Speaker 6: seven years to life, but a chance of parole after
Speaker 6: thirty seven years, and he was scheduled for trial in
Speaker 6: April the following year to go before Judge Douglas Gray.
Speaker 8: You're right that it's not completely unknown, but that a
Speaker 8: judge rejects of plea. Tell us about this rejection of
Speaker 8: that plea.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that came as a shock to both Andrew Katrupi
Speaker 6: and Pat Donovan, and at that time Kelly this is
Speaker 6: April of the following year. Kelly Aot is on board too.
Speaker 6: She eventually became an attorney general and then a state
Speaker 6: senator in Congress in DC or anyway, they were both
Speaker 6: stunned at it about that when they gave Douglas Judge
Speaker 6: Gray the disposition. He said he would take it under advisement,
Speaker 6: and one of the things he did was a special
Speaker 6: hearing with a probation officer who investigated Jalanowski's past, and
Speaker 6: Gray felt that Jalanouski was getting off too easy and
Speaker 6: as a result he rejected the plea Boggin.
Speaker 8: Yeh, remarkable now you talk about this. Also, one more
Speaker 8: complication in this is that Grant's confession before this trial
Speaker 8: of Eric Jelaneuski anyway and Chris Dussette later this James
Speaker 8: Grant's confession changes in a very important way. What is
Speaker 8: the difference in what he says now and what was
Speaker 8: the reason for not telling the truth in the first place, which,
Speaker 8: as we spoke earlier, that's a big issue that could
Speaker 8: have kaiwatched this whole case.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, it was a very dramatic issue. James Grant's trial
Speaker 6: was in July, the July after Eric Jellanowski's, and after
Speaker 6: he got his sentence and got the deal twenty five
Speaker 6: twenty five years with the chance of parole, he approached
Speaker 6: his attorney and changed his story, and the attorney contacted
Speaker 6: Pat Donovan and his how his story changed was James
Speaker 6: Grant went from saying that it wasn't Chris Duscett who
Speaker 6: stabbed her in neck, which was the cause of death,
Speaker 6: it was me. And the reason why I didn't do
Speaker 6: it I didn't fess up to it initially was I
Speaker 6: was afraid this would squash the deal. Pat Donovan and
Speaker 6: Kelly a are As you can imagine, were really surprised
Speaker 6: about that, and they met and said, Okay, we're going
Speaker 6: to go go ahead with this anyway and we'll see
Speaker 6: what happens. But they were still fairly confident they could
Speaker 6: have gotten the conviction either without Grant's testimony.
Speaker 8: One thing about what Judge Gray said later when he
Speaker 8: said why he disagreed with the thirty seven year to
Speaker 8: life sentence was because of the confession. Now, what we
Speaker 8: haven't spoken about is the some of the remarkable, incredible
Speaker 8: things that Eric Jellanuski says during that confession.
Speaker 6: Uh. Yeah, he was very candid. He showed no remorse whatsoever.
Speaker 6: It was really amazing. The two people who interviewed him
Speaker 6: were a detective Max sam Pataro and Roger Baudet, and
Speaker 6: he was just nonchalant about it, Like you know, he
Speaker 6: was describing oh, a day at the beach.
Speaker 8: You talk specifically, he said that he had dragged her
Speaker 8: away from the fireplace and left her by a door,
Speaker 8: and they said. The detective said, not bothering you much.
Speaker 8: He said no. He says, as I was dragging her away,
Speaker 8: I love the feeling of the warm, sticky blood flowing
Speaker 8: through my fingers.
Speaker 6: Yeah. At that point, Mox s Ambataro, who was a
Speaker 6: rough and tumble kind of guy, told Roger to Roger,
Speaker 6: go get a cup of coffee, and he turned off
Speaker 6: the videotape. However, Roger was pretty smart himself. He grabbed
Speaker 6: Mock and said, Okay, I'm getting a cup of coffee,
Speaker 6: but you're coming with me. And as he's going out
Speaker 6: of the room, Jealanouski says, yeah, get me a cup too,
Speaker 6: I'm thirsty. So outside the room, Mack goes to Roger. No, Roger,
Speaker 6: I want to break his neck. He goes Roger said, Mox,
Speaker 6: standing line, I want to do that too. Okay, So
Speaker 6: they go back in the room and turn on the
Speaker 6: video camera again and they just picked up where they
Speaker 6: left off. Unfortunately, the discontinuity in the video camera. Judge
Speaker 6: Gray had a stickler for that. It was a real
Speaker 6: stickler for that. So Pat Dunovan and both Kelly Aot
Speaker 6: felt that, you know what he maysview, there could have
Speaker 6: been some exculpatory item, some exculpatory statement that was said
Speaker 6: when the video camera was off. So they decided not
Speaker 6: to use Grant's confession in court because he did confess
Speaker 6: and was willing to plead guilty to it. That's why
Speaker 6: they gave him thirty seven years with the chance of parole.
Speaker 6: But as we're already talked about Judge Gray through that out.
Speaker 8: Yes, you talk about the media and this story making
Speaker 8: national news out especially with the tie in with this
Speaker 8: movie screen and it's the media had headlines like accused
Speaker 8: viewed horror film and that these two girls were killed
Speaker 8: for absolutely no reason, an incredibly senseless murder based on
Speaker 8: this was supposed to be a comedic movie exactly.
Speaker 6: Yeah, how they talk about life imitating and that's exactly
Speaker 6: what it was. It was just now once it's over
Speaker 6: and done, it's just sad, very sad about it.
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Speaker 8: So now we got to get to this trial. Obviously
Speaker 8: there's only Eric's trial. Tell us about Chris du Sett
Speaker 8: and Eric's trial and the plea agreements that end up
Speaker 8: in the end.
Speaker 6: Eric's trial, we had a lot of physical evidence time
Speaker 6: to it. There was Eric's fingerprint on her leg when
Speaker 6: he dragged her. There was fingerprints on the keys, so
Speaker 6: we had a lot of good Fisco evidence. We had
Speaker 6: spatter evidence, blood spatter on his clothes that was Kimberly's,
Speaker 6: so there was a lot of time them to the crime.
Speaker 6: James Grant held up surprisingly well in court under really
Speaker 6: stiff cross examination from Andrew Katrupi Katrupy did a good job.
Speaker 6: I know he tried to impeach his testimony. You've lied
Speaker 6: before at judge of future behavior's past behavior, you're lying now.
Speaker 6: But Grant kept us cool and goes, yeah, no, I'm
Speaker 6: really sorry about this, but happened and I got to
Speaker 6: live with it for the rest of my life.
Speaker 8: Essentially, what they try to do is to shift the
Speaker 8: blame to James Grant and both of these trials, and
Speaker 8: that James Grant did all of the things that they
Speaker 8: had physical evidence and circumstantial evidence witness testimony to support
Speaker 8: the prosecution's claim. The only thing they basically could do
Speaker 8: was to say that James Grant was the person, and
Speaker 8: they tried to use as much leverage as possible by
Speaker 8: the revelation by Grant that he had actually stabbed lee
Speaker 8: Ane Millius in the neck and that was the cause
Speaker 8: of death.
Speaker 6: That is correct. A very typical defense in a murder
Speaker 6: trial is to try and place the blame on someone else.
Speaker 6: And in the three books that I wrote, a Murder
Speaker 6: at the Front Door and Murder Outside the back Door,
Speaker 6: each defendant attempted to do that and very common. But
Speaker 6: again with Jellinooski, there was just so much physical evidence.
Speaker 6: It was pretty much a no brainer. And the jury
Speaker 6: came back with a finding of guilty, and Judge Grace said, okay,
Speaker 6: life with all the chance of parole, and he instructed
Speaker 6: the bailiffs get him out of my courtroom. And he
Speaker 6: said that were quite a bit of vehemence.
Speaker 8: You write about a tape that was played in court
Speaker 8: and they have Eric Jieleanowski saying that I'm a funny man.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I could do the whole movie if you want,
Speaker 8: and he was yawning and giggling and.
Speaker 6: Oh exactly, exactly again, absolutely no conscience and no remorse
Speaker 6: because I'm a real funny man. I'm the funniest man
Speaker 6: in the world. And he would sometimes imitate Tony Montana
Speaker 6: in scaface, like, you know, say.
Speaker 8: Hello to my little friend Larous.
Speaker 6: So yeah, he If anyone deserves to be in jail
Speaker 6: for life, it is he.
Speaker 8: You talk about the jurors, this is not always typical.
Speaker 8: They were in horror, their hands on their faces over
Speaker 8: the testimony. The families of the two girls open weeping
Speaker 8: in court when they had to be subjected to the
Speaker 8: details of the murders themselves.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was very explicit and the crime scene photos
Speaker 6: were just brutal. There was a tremendous amount of blood.
Speaker 6: Tried not to get into that too much in the book,
Speaker 6: but it was really very difficult.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, you talk about jury deliberations, just a few hours,
Speaker 8: five six hours to come up with their decision.
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, the uh I said Pat Donovan
Speaker 6: and Kelly Aart just did a phenomenal job. Now, one
Speaker 6: of the things about Kelly Aart she went from assistant
Speaker 6: ag she went on to be the first female Attorney
Speaker 6: General in New Hampshire and all throughout her tenure she
Speaker 6: never lost a case.
Speaker 8: Chris du said had an additional charge conspiracy to commit
Speaker 8: murder along with the first degree murder. What was that
Speaker 8: decision in court.
Speaker 6: That they did not have as much physical evidence from
Speaker 6: Chris as Jellinowski, and so they just added that other
Speaker 6: charge and they felt with James Grant's testimony, if worse
Speaker 6: came to worse and they didn't get a guilty verdict
Speaker 6: on murder, the sspiracy also carries a very hefty fined,
Speaker 6: very hefty sentence too. So as it turned out, Ducett
Speaker 6: was found guilty and also received life in prison without
Speaker 6: a chance of parole. Should be noted that James Grant
Speaker 6: is now out on parole and living in Maine.
Speaker 8: What he did do is almost twenty five years in prison,
Speaker 8: if not the twenty that's correct. Yeah, you talk about updates.
Speaker 8: But what we hadn't talked about was Mary Wallace and
Speaker 8: Bill Farrah, the parents of the two daughters. What happened
Speaker 8: with them in the.
Speaker 6: End, Well, Kim and Pimberly and Leanne were really good
Speaker 6: friends and both their parents were divorced and they kind
Speaker 6: of were trying to fix them up. However, this case
Speaker 6: brought them together and they eventually got married. Bill was
Speaker 6: a member of the Elks and every year the Elks
Speaker 6: lodge and Salem Debye Salem Elks the sponsor of pool tournament,
Speaker 6: and there is the money goes towards scholarship and Kimberleon
Speaker 6: Leann's name.
Speaker 8: Yeah, tell us more about this memorial scholarship. You talk
Speaker 8: about it. They had their first recipient in June ninety eight.
Speaker 8: But also that Detective Swift and Marshawn received a Meritorious
Speaker 8: Service Award for the countless hours and immeasurable dedication spent
Speaker 8: in the pursuit of the three murderers of lee An
Speaker 8: Milius and Kimberlief Fair.
Speaker 6: Uh, yeah, that's correct. Both Paul and Kevin had previous
Speaker 6: year as received Officer of the Year award. That's the
Speaker 6: highest award in sale police department, and Paul received it
Speaker 6: on two occasions prior to that. So I thought they
Speaker 6: should have gotten both officers should have gotten Officer of
Speaker 6: the Year. They just did a phenomenal job from soup
Speaker 6: to nuts. But what the logic was, you know, let's
Speaker 6: burt around the wealth. We'll give them a very highward,
Speaker 6: but we'll save the Officer of the Year for someone
Speaker 6: else right there. But you know, Paul and Kevin both
Speaker 6: now they're not looking for glorya They just want to
Speaker 6: do their job, and they both do really good jobs.
Speaker 6: It did really good jobs.
Speaker 8: And now both back to the fate of these killers. Chris,
Speaker 8: who set behind bars, didn't stay quiet, tell us of
Speaker 8: additional charge.
Speaker 6: You know, I say this all the time. Best judge
Speaker 6: of future behavior is past behavior, and I think it
Speaker 6: was two thousand and two Chris was got an additional
Speaker 6: ten years on his life sentence, but trafficking cocaine inside
Speaker 6: the prison and someone from outside who was supplying the
Speaker 6: cocaine she was she was arrested too.
Speaker 8: So more than likely both do Set and jell and
Speaker 8: Owski will never see outside of a prison.
Speaker 6: Well they yeah, hopefully they will never see the light
Speaker 6: of day. If ever two people deserve to be in prison,
Speaker 6: it is they.
Speaker 8: You do an update as well about what happened. We
Speaker 8: mentioned it, but we mentioned it again. Patrick Donovan twenty
Speaker 8: eighteen was to serve on the New Hampshire Supreme Court.
Speaker 6: That's correct. In writing this book, I spoke to Pat
Speaker 6: and no, he just loves being there. He loves his job,
Speaker 6: and he loves the law, and he just does a
Speaker 6: great job. And couldn't respect Pat Moore and also Kelly
Speaker 6: Aot very highly respected.
Speaker 8: Yes, you talk about two thousand and four, she was
Speaker 8: appointed Attorney General for New Hampshire and the first and
Speaker 8: only woman to serve as a New Hampshire Attorney General.
Speaker 6: That's correct. She went on to be as one of
Speaker 6: the senators in the House of Congress and she just
Speaker 6: currently announced in the past week that she is running
Speaker 6: now running for governor of the state.
Speaker 8: Interesting you talked about Andrew Katrupe, He continued Premier Criminal
Speaker 8: Defense Attorney and asked he was asked to train other
Speaker 8: young attorneys. And you say he was respected by police
Speaker 8: officers and the prosecution.
Speaker 6: He is. His office is here in Hampton, where I'm
Speaker 6: also a part time police officer, and now we'll see
Speaker 6: him every now and then, and he is still very
Speaker 6: highly respected. He's got great cases. Amount of fact, there
Speaker 6: are a couple of cases over the years that lice
Speaker 6: officers have had and they get him as their attorney.
Speaker 6: So again that's probably very high praise coming from cops
Speaker 6: on the defense attorney. Yeah.
Speaker 8: Absolutely. You talk about Judge Douglas Gray. It was very
Speaker 8: interesting that he was also the presiding judge on the
Speaker 8: Pamela Smart trial. But you say he retired the week
Speaker 8: after this Jellanouski trial.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, he did. There was some talk of that.
Speaker 6: It kind of came somewhat as a surprise. He was
Speaker 6: talking about retiring, but after this trial he wanted to
Speaker 6: spend more time with his grandchildren and more time for himself.
Speaker 6: And I can't say I blame him.
Speaker 8: Yeah, he did make some statement that this was among
Speaker 8: the worst cases he had presided over, or the one
Speaker 8: that affected him most.
Speaker 6: That is correct, Yeah, that is correct. I would say
Speaker 6: that this would be a lot worse than the Pam
Speaker 6: Smott case.
Speaker 8: You talk about Detective Paul Marshawn retiring in two thousand
Speaker 8: and six, Detective Kevin Swift in twenty eleven, and Detective
Speaker 8: Dan O'Reilly retiring in two thousand and nine. Before we
Speaker 8: end this interview, tell us about your friendship with these gentlemen.
Speaker 6: Paul, we've been friends since we got on the police
Speaker 6: department in the early twenties. Paul, Mock and I lived
Speaker 6: together for three years. I was a bachelor for quite
Speaker 6: a while. Paul and Mock had just gone through divorces
Speaker 6: and we're still in touch. Roger Baudet, same thing. Roger
Speaker 6: lives a mile away from me here in Hampton. We
Speaker 6: get together and go golf, and I tell him a
Speaker 6: lot of times. You know, Roger, you may want to
Speaker 6: consider fishing as opposed to golf. Paul Myshan, same thing.
Speaker 6: He lives half a mile from me here in Hampton,
Speaker 6: and we all go to Florida for at least three
Speaker 6: months in the winter time. We live within ten miles
Speaker 6: of each other in Florida, and we get together for
Speaker 6: golfing two three times a week and go off for dinner.
Speaker 6: The same amount of time, but lifelong friends. Mack Kavanaugh two,
Speaker 6: he back lives in Florida full time.
Speaker 8: Now, absolutely, you right at the very end of this book,
Speaker 8: that's what's coming in twenty twenty four. Tell us the
Speaker 8: book that's coming in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 6: I've started work on that, and it's going to be
Speaker 6: called Monsters at the Door, and I'm planning on two
Speaker 6: editions of it. The first one is going to deal
Speaker 6: it's going to deal with serial killers both editions. The
Speaker 6: first one is going to be two serial killers from Salem,
Speaker 6: New Hampshire. In nineteen seventy six, Aline Bowl and a
Speaker 6: cop starter broke down on the side of the road
Speaker 6: and she was killed by a Francis for Carteron, who
Speaker 6: had a sortid background and a sortid future. He was
Speaker 6: eventually arrested and he escaped twice. He was killed in
Speaker 6: a bayroom fight in Saint Thomas eleven years after the
Speaker 6: second time he escaped. The other one is going to
Speaker 6: be on the murder of Denise Belfour that occurred in
Speaker 6: nineteen eighty seven by a fifteen year old boy who
Speaker 6: cut off pot of her breasts after he moved with
Speaker 6: her and then had sex with her and there was
Speaker 6: We ended up getting the sky and he was committed
Speaker 6: to thirty five years in jail. And there was no
Speaker 6: doubt in my mind if we didn't arrest him, he
Speaker 6: was going to be a serial killer, because this is
Speaker 6: just an urge. I remember one time I'm having a
Speaker 6: discussion with someone who felt that pedophiles could be cured,
Speaker 6: and I said, no, that is his nature. If someone's
Speaker 6: a pedophile, that's his nature. It's just like if a
Speaker 6: law was passed then my single days, I couldn't make
Speaker 6: love to beautiful woman. If that law was passed, I
Speaker 6: would have become a sex offender. Yeah, it is their
Speaker 6: nature and they cannot change. And then I'm going to
Speaker 6: have a third story in there on Ted Bundy, and
Speaker 6: then the second edition will be the most infamous serial
Speaker 6: killers of our time. I'm looking at Son of Sam
Speaker 6: in New York and the Boston Strangler De Salvo, Albert
Speaker 6: de Salva.
Speaker 8: We'll be looking forward to that.
Speaker 6: Thanks Dan, I enjoy writing them. It's great.
Speaker 8: Yes, absolutely. I want to thank you very much for
Speaker 8: coming on and talking about Murder by the Bathhouse Door,
Speaker 8: the true story of the murder of two teenage girls
Speaker 8: by three boys who wanted to play scream. Thank you
Speaker 8: so much, John Tomasi. For those that might want to
Speaker 8: find out more about your other work, do you have
Speaker 8: a website or do any social media? Tell us about that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I do. My website is Johntomasey dot com. And
Speaker 6: on that website I have the prologues and chapter one's
Speaker 6: from the three books Murder at the Front Door, Murder
Speaker 6: Outside the back Door in this book, and the books
Speaker 6: can be bought on Amazon, either kindo edition or paperback.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, thank you so much. Murdered by the Bathhouse Door,
Speaker 8: the true story of the murder of two teenage girls
Speaker 8: by three boys who wanted to play screen Thank you
Speaker 8: so much for this interview, John Tomasi, and you have
Speaker 8: a great evening.
Speaker 6: Thanks Dan YouTube.
Speaker 8: Good night,