WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:01.840 Hey, guys, it is Ryan. I'm not sure if you 2 00:00:01.879 --> 00:00:03.560 know this about me, but I'm a bit of a 3 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:05.599 fun fanatic when I can. I like to work, but 4 00:00:05.639 --> 00:00:06.360 I like fun too. 5 00:00:06.519 --> 00:00:07.040 It's a thing. 6 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:09.119 And now the truth is out there, I can tell 7 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:12.279 you about my favorite place to have fun, Chumba Casino. 8 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:15.320 They have hundreds of social casino style games to choose from, 9 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:18.000 with new games released each week. You can play for 10 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:21.399 free anytime, anywhere, and each day brings a new chance 11 00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:22.719 to collect daily bonuses. 12 00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:24.359 So join me and the fun. 13 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:27.399 Sign up now at Chumba Casino dot com. 14 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:30.920 No, We're necessary day where I lost terms conditions eighteen plus. 15 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:34.039 Lucky Land Casino. Asking people what's the weirdest place you've 16 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:34.759 gotten lucky? 17 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:37.799 Lucky? In line at the Delhi I guess ah, in 18 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:41.119 my dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have 19 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:41.520 to say? 20 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:42.280 Yes? You do? 21 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:44.920 In the car before my kids pta meeting? 22 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:45.479 Really? 23 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:48.600 Yes, excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 24 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:49.840 I never win? 25 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:51.320 And tell well, there you have it. 26 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.520 You could get lucky anywhere playing at Lucky landslots dot com. 27 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:56.960 Play for free right now? Are you feeling lucky? 28 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:58.840 No, We're just NECESSARIOI where We're go my long eighteen 29 00:00:58.840 --> 00:00:59.960 plus terms and conditions plus you want. 30 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:11.480 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 31 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:14.599 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 32 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:21.959 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 33 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:25.680 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 34 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:30.319 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 35 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:33.200 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 36 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:46.599 Good evening, they watched the nineteen ninety six movie Scream 37 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.840 over and over again. One of the boys was truly 38 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.000 infatuated with the movie and wanted to be part of it. He, 39 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.079 along with his two friends, lured two teenage girls to 40 00:01:56.120 --> 00:01:59.519 a local park in Salem, New Hampshire, late one night, 41 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:03.159 where the girls were brutally murdered by being stabbed over 42 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:06.280 and over again. Read how they were tracked to Michigan 43 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:09.520 from New Hampshire and how they were brought finally to justice. 44 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:12.560 The book they were featuring this evening is Murder by 45 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.240 the Bathhouse Door, The true story of the murder of 46 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:18.639 two teenage girls by three boys who wanted to play 47 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:22.639 Scream with my special guest, author John Tumasy welcome to 48 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:24.719 the program, and thank you very much for this interview. 49 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:27.599 John Toumassi, Hi Dan, how you doing, and thank you 50 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:28.159 for having me. 51 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:29.240 It's a pleasure to be here. 52 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:33.319 Thank you so much, and congratulations on this book Murdered 53 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:34.400 by the Bathhouse Door. 54 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:34.879 Thank you. 55 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.000 Let's talk about as you do, as you write in 56 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:43.240 the book Fall nineteen eighty four, tell us your position professionally, 57 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:48.960 your teaching position, and your profession police wise, law enforcement wise. 58 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:52.599 Okay, I had just been promoted to sageant in nineteen 59 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:54.639 eighty three in the Sale and Police department. I was 60 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:58.039 the patrol sageant on the five to one shift. I 61 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:02.520 had started teaching in nineteen eighty one. I was teaching 62 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:06.240 an at that time Northern Essex Community College. I started 63 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:09.599 in the business department and in nineteen eighty four they 64 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:13.120 had lost a couple of criminal justice instructors and asked 65 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:16.639 me if I could transition to CJ. So I was 66 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:21.159 teaching two courses at Northern Essex. They were intro to 67 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:26.240 Criminology and Police in a Modern Society, and I was 68 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:28.080 teaching a guess I was teaching part time. 69 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:31.919 One of your lectures you spoke about was serial killers 70 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:36.919 and you talked about whether they were generally sociopaths or psychopaths, 71 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:41.400 where not all psychopaths are serial killers, but the thing 72 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:44.919 that was a commonality was the lack of conscience, and 73 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:48.879 you attributed this to Your undergraduate major was behavioral psychology 74 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:50.840 at the University of New Hampshire. 75 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:54.759 That's correct. I got that in nineteen seventies and I 76 00:03:54.800 --> 00:03:58.280 went on to get an MBA. I've got to tie 77 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:02.039 in police work. Psychology was a really good major to have, 78 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:05.560 and one of the things we talked about was serial 79 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:10.560 killers and sociopaths and psychopaths have a lot in common. 80 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:15.919 Probably the biggest difference is a psychopath doesn't have a 81 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:21.000 conscience and could be very charming and alluring. Ted Bundy 82 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:24.519 was a perfect example of that, also very intelligent. Ted 83 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:27.040 was going through his law degree, and I think this 84 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:29.680 was very much the case with the boys involved here, 85 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:31.399 especially Eric Jellanouski. 86 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:34.399 Let's get to these three boys in this story. You 87 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:37.800 take us to August nineteen ninety seven and six people 88 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:43.240 living in a motel six motel room in Leominster, Massachusetts 89 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:47.040 and three friends. So introduce the three friends that are there, 90 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.360 and also the fourth Jacob Romero, and tell us the 91 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:54.199 situation they had themselves there in this motel under what 92 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:56.160 circumstances do they find themselves there? 93 00:04:56.399 --> 00:05:00.759 These were eighteen and nineteen year old boys who didn't 94 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:04.360 really have a steady job. James Grant, one of the 95 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:07.560 three boys, had just lost his job for theft. He 96 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:09.879 had stolen five hundred dollars and that's how they were 97 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:13.000 able to afford the motel room. I think at that 98 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:16.279 time Motel six was only charging thirty five or forty 99 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:21.680 dollars a night. Eric Jelanouski had just gotten the army 100 00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:26.800 earlier that spring, and he was scheduled for advanced infantry 101 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:31.480 training in September October. So they were just floating from 102 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:34.920 place to place, and in this hotel room. They had 103 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:39.000 another friend who was there, Jacob Romero, had nothing to 104 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:42.199 do with the murders, but a couple girls came and 105 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:45.399 went too. Over those ten days they were there, and 106 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:49.439 while they were there they lived off essentially theft. They 107 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:55.360 would steal gasoline, they would steal food from grocery stores, 108 00:05:55.800 --> 00:06:00.079 and they, especially Jealanuski, were on drugs and drugs of 109 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:05.600 choice were cocaine and meth and occasionally marijuana. To come 110 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.079 down from his highs, but he wrote other things as 111 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:12.439 he watched the nineteen ninety six movie Scream over and 112 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:18.040 over and over again along with Scarface, and he would 113 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:21.240 he knew pretty much all the lines by hot by 114 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.600 around the sixth seventh day, as the movie is playing, 115 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:27.000 he'd be saying the lines along with the movie. The 116 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:30.720 other kids watched the movie too, several times, but nowhere 117 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.079 near as much as Jollanuski. 118 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:36.519 You write about a specific scene in the movie Scream 119 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:41.519 that Eric Jelanuski especially appreciated. What was that one scene? 120 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:46.439 That was the scene when they stabbed one of their 121 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.959 victims and tasted the blood or it made like they 122 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.680 were tasting the blood. He wanted to do that, and 123 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:56.839 at one point in the future Ducett in fact did 124 00:06:56.839 --> 00:06:59.199 do it. Who was the third person there? Chris Dussette, 125 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:02.160 James Grant and Eric Jellanuski with the three boys. 126 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:05.959 Let's get back to this motel. They exit this motel 127 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.000 in ten days, they run out of money and the 128 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:12.120 three boys go one way and Jacob Romero another. And 129 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:14.240 as you say that, Eric had watch us over and 130 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:17.439 over again estimated twenty times while at the motel. Now 131 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:21.720 let's get to as you write the murders Saturday, September thirteenth, 132 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:25.199 nineteen ninety seven in Salem, and this is the day anyway, 133 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:27.720 that Dorothy Myers was out walking her dog when she 134 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:30.600 spotted a girl lying on the ground about forty feet 135 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:32.680 from the road in Salem. Tell us what is the 136 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:35.560 condition of the woman that's found by police and how 137 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:36.759 do police proceed? 138 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.759 Well, she was found at Hedgehog Pock. Hedgehog Pock has 139 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.240 a little pawn they are called hedgehog Pawn, and it 140 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:47.639 was frequented by pretty much everyone late at night. It 141 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:52.560 was frequented it a lot by juveniles, young adults. And 142 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.399 Dorothy is It's about sixty thirty in the morning. It's 143 00:07:56.519 --> 00:08:02.000 a chilling morning, and she's walking dog and about thirty 144 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:04.839 feet off the road she sees the body of a 145 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:08.959 girl and the girl isn't moving. She didn't get any 146 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.600 closer and looked natural to her, So she ran across 147 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:15.639 the street to I believe it was Clem's Variety, and 148 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:20.120 they called the police station. Two officers went down Bucky 149 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.199 Melissa's and John Lozowski and discovered that she was in 150 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.439 fact dead. Full lividity had set in. She was very cold, 151 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.040 to the touch, and it was it was in a 152 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:33.639 pool of blood, so it was evident it was a 153 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:38.639 murder scene. They immediately secured the scene and called for 154 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:42.360 more people. In addition to the Attorney General's office in 155 00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:44.759 the state of New Hampshire, whenever there's a murder, the 156 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:48.480 Attorney General's Office is contacted and they pretty much run 157 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:50.519 or direct the investigation. 158 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:53.840 And that person's Pat Donovan, and you introduced him as 159 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:58.159 this central character and this investigation and this story obviously right. 160 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:01.879 Pat used to be a prosecut for the Sale and 161 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:07.399 Police Department for several years, very well liked and highly respected. 162 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:10.440 From there he went on to a private practice with 163 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:13.440 a friend of his, and he was originally picked for 164 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:18.320 the Attorney General's position or Assistant Attorney General. He is 165 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.320 currently sitting on the New Hampshire Supreme Court. So Pat 166 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:23.759 is very highly respected and very competent. 167 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:27.399 You also introduced a state medical Examiner, Thomas Andrew, but 168 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:33.000 also senior detective Paul Marshon Arrives, also Kevin Swift, along 169 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:34.639 with Roger Boodeau. 170 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:36.159 Roger Boudet, that's correct. 171 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.679 And these guys you right, are all twenty year veteran 172 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:44.039 detectives all highly decorated, and you say that. Detective Marshawan 173 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:48.480 immediately decides to check out the nearby bath house on 174 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:51.000 the western side of the pond, about seventy eighty yards 175 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:54.039 from the body. What does he discover at the bathhouse? 176 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:58.519 That's gooret Paul has unbelievable instincts. He's by the bath 177 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:02.320 house door and he he sees another body. There's a 178 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.320 fireplace with a large hot in it, and this is 179 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:08.519 where we found the body. The bonnie was not only 180 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:13.120 stabbed multiple times, but looked like Potiver's head was carved in. 181 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:16.279 And this turned out to be the case that Eric 182 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:21.360 Jealanuski had stabbed her multiple times. This was Kimberly Parah 183 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:26.240 and she was gurgling and he ended up grabbing her 184 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:30.159 and bashing her head against the fireside. 185 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.919 High police find Marshon and Swift and the others find 186 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:38.759 a fingerprint in blood. Where is this fingerprint found? 187 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:43.879 It's on her leg, Kimberly Phara's leg. What we found 188 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:47.480 out that Jalanuski did later on was he physically drabbed 189 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:50.919 a drag the body and it was Jealinuski's fingerprint. 190 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.919 Now, how do police proceed with this in terms of 191 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:57.600 determining any kind of suspects other than securing this crime 192 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:01.200 scene and setting in forensic and doing them usual parts 193 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.960 of the investigation. They do, what is the first thing 194 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:04.679 they do well? 195 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:08.159 They ended up securing the scene, started a search partty 196 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:12.200 and the search was expanded the next day, and they 197 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:17.480 didn't really find anything. However, what was interesting was they 198 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:23.519 had stole stolen Kimberly's Phara's car. The three boys and 199 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:28.080 two girls, Kimberly Pharre and LeeAnne Millius, along with Eric Jellanuski, 200 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:30.919 James Grant and Chris Dussett I went to the park 201 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:36.559 that night. They were drinking beers and they were just 202 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:39.240 potty and until they decided to kill them, which was 203 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:45.799 probably shortly after midnight. We were contacted by Oxford Police. 204 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:49.720 They had Kimberly's car was put out as stolen and 205 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:52.480 Oxford police had already found it and then they got 206 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:56.080 the hit on nc I see the National Crime Information Center. 207 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:01.840 They contacted us and Roger bow Day and palmsh and 208 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:06.639 once they processed the scene along with the State Police 209 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:09.559 crime lab, they ended up going down to Oxford and 210 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:10.480 seeing the car. 211 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.200 Now tell us about the state of the car. What 212 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.440 these boys had attempted, but we might have missed that 213 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:19.120 there was a discovery of a wallet at the bathhouse. 214 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:22.440 Yeah, that's correct. I'd like to say we discovered who 215 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:26.759 they were by really fantastic police work, which that was there, 216 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:28.799 But it was a lot of stupidity on half of 217 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.320 the boys. On behalf of the boys. They had Eric 218 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:35.720 Jellanouski's car plus Kimberly's car, and they were going to 219 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:39.720 drive out to Michigan, close to the Upper Peninsula in Michigan. 220 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:43.679 Chris Dussette was there originally and his mom lived there 221 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:48.519 up in mantin Michigan. So when they found Kimberly's car, 222 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.279 the boys they tried to torture. There was a rag 223 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:54.879 that was soaked in light of fluid. They stuck it 224 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:58.159 in the gas tank the gas cap and lit it 225 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.320 on fire and then took off. We were able to 226 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:06.639 ascertain this later by James Grant's confession. So the car 227 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:10.279 didn't burn, however, Roger bo did. They started doing a 228 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:13.200 very cursory search of the car and they found a 229 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:17.200 wallet in the back and the wallet belonged to Chris Ducet. 230 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:21.279 They were able to track down that Chris Dussett was 231 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.159 from Michigan. He had a prior record. He was in 232 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.360 he did spend some time in jail for breaking and 233 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:32.399 entering and malicious damage of a high school. And from 234 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:36.480 Chris's mother we were able to ascertain the other two friends, 235 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:41.080 James Grant and Eric Jealanuski. As it turned out, Eric 236 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:46.600 Jalanuski's mother worked at Fort Devons and we were able 237 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:48.840 to get a lot of information about the three boys 238 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:49.879 from her. 239 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:53.039 What did she say about the boys, what was their 240 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:55.720 behavior like, what did they do when they got to 241 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.279 her house? What did she know? What did she tell them? 242 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:03.039 What was interesting that Ericuski's mother said was Chris is 243 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:05.840 a good boy, but he doesn't have a conscience, which 244 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:10.240 when Mark Kavna, who was also a detective assigned to 245 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:14.720 the investigation, he had interviewed jell Nuski's mother, I said, Wow, 246 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:19.559 that's classic psychopath. So they made it out to Manton, Michigan, 247 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:22.919 to Chris Dussette's mother and they spent the night in 248 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:25.679 the car because she didn't want them in the house. 249 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.799 She had previously been contacted by Sale and police and 250 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:37.639 County Sheriff detective Sergeant Dan O'Reilly from Michigan, and they said, 251 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.639 you know, we're looking at your boys. We expect them 252 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:43.799 to come to your house, and they're wanted for questioning 253 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:47.600 in a murder of investigation. So at that point she 254 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:51.360 did feed them, gave him sandwiches and food, but they 255 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.240 had to sleep in the car that night. Early the 256 00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:57.000 next morning, before she got up, the boys left and 257 00:14:57.080 --> 00:14:59.440 went further inland. They were looking for a house to 258 00:14:59.440 --> 00:14:59.840 break into. 259 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:04.279 Let's go back a second to the medical examiner's autopsy. 260 00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:08.000 What does he determine about the nature of the stab 261 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:09.799 wounds and the killers. 262 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:16.759 This was interesting because he saw three different stab wounds. 263 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:21.000 He saw the stab wounds on Kimberly's body were with 264 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:25.000 a lot of anger and a lot of thrust. They 265 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:30.840 went very deep. The stab wounds on Leanne's body, some 266 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:35.840 of them were very superficial, more like slashes that did 267 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.639 break the skin but didn't penetrate deep. And there were 268 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:44.799 others that were deep but not as deep or as 269 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:49.720 what he said was vicious as those on Kimberly's body. 270 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:52.639 So we were looking at two or three At that 271 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.279 point we knew that we're quite possibly looking at two 272 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:57.679 or three different assailants. 273 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:01.159 Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for the messages. 274 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:04.759 Lucky Land Casino, asking people what's the weirdest place you've 275 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:05.480 gotten lucky? 276 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:08.559 Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah, in 277 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.840 my dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have 278 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:12.399 to say? 279 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:12.679 Yes? 280 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:12.919 You do? 281 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:15.679 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? 282 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:19.320 Really? Yes, excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 283 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:20.559 I never win? 284 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:22.080 And tell well, there you have it. 285 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:24.919 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot 286 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:26.600 com play for free right now? 287 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:29.200 Are you feeling lucky? No, we're not necessary for my 288 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.279 long eighteen plus terms conditions to place. See what's every details? 289 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:36.080 Now back to the search for these three killers or 290 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.639 there are three suspects, but some really good suspects. They are, 291 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.919 so they speak to Mary Wallace and Mary Wallace tells 292 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:47.159 them a few things about the motel stay and sort 293 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:50.320 of the relationship that the girls have with the boys. 294 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:53.399 Tell us what Mary Wallace has to say, Well. 295 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:59.840 James Grant had dated Leanne earlier in that summer. Alene 296 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.679 had a friend from Fitchburg who she went down to visit, 297 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:08.400 and James was from Fitchburg, and they went out several times, 298 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:13.880 and Leanne didn't like James as much as James did. 299 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.880 James wanted a romantic relationship, Leanne just wanted it as 300 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:21.839 a friend. But it appeared that weekend when the boys 301 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:25.680 were up that Friday, Leanne was attracted more to Chris 302 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:28.079 Dussette and Kimberly to Eric Joellanowski. 303 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:32.960 Now soon some crime scenes or scenes related to the 304 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:37.319 crime were discovered. Right about a person named Bob Abbott. 305 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:39.920 He's a gas station attendant and he goes to the 306 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:44.079 restroom and discovers a bloody scene. This is an andover, that's. 307 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.559 Correct, just south on Route ninety three from Salem. 308 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:50.759 So you say it's determined later it's lee Ane Milliss's 309 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:55.079 and Kimberly Farah's blood. And now you have detectives Marshawn 310 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.559 and Boudet on way to Oxford, Massachusetts to meet with 311 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:03.000 the local police and Massachusetts State Police. And that was 312 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.119 about the taking a look at the car and examining 313 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.400 the car forensically tell us about the German shepherd and 314 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:12.160 what this canine unit finds. 315 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:19.000 Well, along they're searching for keys and Paul Pryor to 316 00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:23.000 becoming a detective Palmash and he was a canine officer, 317 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:26.640 so he was very aware of how canines act, particularly 318 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.400 on a track. So they went to the woods and 319 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:36.319 the canine alerted and started looking up into a tree 320 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:39.559 and then put his front pause on the tree and 321 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:41.880 the handle is said, now, come on, let's go, and 322 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:44.839 Paul goes wait a second, he's alerding. There's something up 323 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.039 in the tree. So Paul climbed the tree and found 324 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:51.160 the keys to Kimberly Scott that the boys had thrown 325 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:52.480 in the woods. 326 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:55.720 Interesting, let's get back to the search for these boys. 327 00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:59.759 After they are at Deborah Brackle's place. Police estimate that 328 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:02.039 they or they believe that they're still in the area. 329 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:04.960 So how do they proceed and what happens and what 330 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.400 reports do they get about the whereabouts of these boys. 331 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.000 Well, the boys went about a mile down the road 332 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.160 and there's a lot of hunting and fishing camps in 333 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:18.119 that area that are you know, people come and stay 334 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.640 a week or maybe a weekend, but they're for the 335 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:25.240 most part deserted. So they put up to one place 336 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:28.559 and broke into it and a nighbor came out and 337 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.599 he saw the car and the boys had broken into 338 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:35.960 the place and he thought he saw people walking inside. 339 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:39.000 So he knows the owner of this hunting cap and 340 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.480 then he calls him and asks, is there's supposed to 341 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:43.839 be anyone in your place? And he goes no, So 342 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:48.200 he called the county sheriffs, who responded. However, the boys 343 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:52.920 had noticed that the neighbor was looking, so they left 344 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.359 their car and they went through the woods and maybe 345 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.480 half a mile down the road broke into another the camp. 346 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.559 So tell us about the moment when they are arrested 347 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.079 and the officers are that are there and the reaction 348 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:08.960 from the boys themselves. 349 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.720 Well, what we had was they broke into another camp 350 00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:15.039 and got a tip they may have been there. So 351 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:19.680 Paul Mashan and Kevin Swift had flown out to Michigan 352 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:25.400 and Dan they hooked up with Detective Sogeant Dan O'Reilly. 353 00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:28.279 So they went to the house and there was already 354 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:31.480 a state trooper there, and the state trooper said, no, 355 00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:34.759 I checked the house and I got nothing. So Paul, again, 356 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:38.440 this was a two story camp. And again Paul has 357 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.559 very good instincts. He's looking, he's looking at the house 358 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:46.200 and all the shades are up except for one window. 359 00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:49.279 On the second floor, and he points that out to 360 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.559 the other guys and he's grabs Dan O'Reilly and everyone 361 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.880 called him raid I O'Reilly. After the personal mash. They 362 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:02.559 go around the house and there's a window that's broken, 363 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:06.160 and through the broken window they could reach the door 364 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:10.839 knob for the door. So what they did was Kevin 365 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:16.440 Swift and Paul secured opposite corners of the house. Bou 366 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:19.039 Dan O'Reilly and a couple of state troopers went in 367 00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:22.079 and in the room that the shade was drawn was 368 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:23.440 where they found the three boys. 369 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:30.039 Right away, you say about Paul Marshawn's instincts. Right away, 370 00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:33.160 he thinks that he's going to take Grant with him. 371 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.119 So they separate the three boys, and Marshawn's instinct is 372 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.440 too to take James Grant with him, likely likely with 373 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:43.039 the idea if there's going to be somebody to confess 374 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:45.759 out of the three, to assess who might be that person, 375 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.240 And Marshawn instinctively thought, James Grant. 376 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:51.480 That's correct, that's great. He had him in his car 377 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.039 and they're on their way back to the station to 378 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:57.720 get booked, and now he's telling you you could be 379 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.319 in a lot of trouble, But why don't you guys 380 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.000 who are going to confess? And the first one that confesses, 381 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:05.960 I can't promise you anything, but chances are you'll get 382 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:09.000 off a lot lighter than the other two. At that time, 383 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:12.200 New Hampshire did have the death penalty. We no longer 384 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:12.799 have it now. 385 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.960 So despite this warning that he could be in a 386 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:17.839 lot of trouble for not telling the truth, they're not 387 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.119 coming forward. First, what does James Grant initially do? 388 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.319 Well, like all the others, he said, he's got nothing 389 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:28.000 to say. That the boys made up a story that 390 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:31.000 they were telling the event that they got caught, and 391 00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:35.680 the story was, well, Lianne's boy Leanne had a boyfriend 392 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.920 at the time, and the story they gave was, oh no, 393 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:42.599 it wasn't us. We left the girls before midnight. They 394 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:45.599 were still alive and Liann's boyfriend was supposed to come 395 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:47.920 there and he's probably the one who killed both of 396 00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:49.319 them in a jealous rage. 397 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:54.000 So obviously they have the medical examiner's report they are 398 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.640 doing as part of the investigation. They're speaking to a 399 00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.400 lot of people to determine what could be the motive 400 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:03.519 of this incredible double murder. So what do police do 401 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.920