Speaker 1: With Laurent segle End from London and Gerard Read from Berlin.
Speaker 2: This is redefining Energy Today.
Speaker 3: On Redefining Energy, we're going to talk about the future
Speaker 3: of the energy system in the UK.
Speaker 4: Because people complain a lot, but in fact there's a
Speaker 4: lot of things happening. But you need a three sixty
Speaker 4: vision and that's exactly what our guests bringing. But first
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Speaker 3: Your business more flexible. Back to the show, Yeah, what
Speaker 3: we decided to do is bring in Penton's lie, who
Speaker 3: is the CEO of the independent system operator in the UK.
Speaker 3: And this is quite unique because Penton's job really is
Speaker 3: to oversee the gas grid.
Speaker 1: And the electrical grid in Great Britain.
Speaker 4: NSO National System Verider has so much roles, so I'm
Speaker 4: going to list them. Real time system operation, so keep
Speaker 4: supply and demand balance every second. All system planning is
Speaker 4: putting everything together, provides impartial recommendation to the regulator. Is
Speaker 4: therein to market design and operations with design and run
Speaker 4: electricity market, he is planning the transmission system, the gas
Speaker 4: and of course he needs to follow the policy of
Speaker 4: net zero, so he's doing so much thing at the
Speaker 4: same time. But I would say in a way, it's
Speaker 4: great that it's one organization doing it and those things
Speaker 4: are not scattered all over place. Makes it much more fission.
Speaker 3: Absolutely and systemic. In other words, because it's not just
Speaker 3: about the electricity system. Obviously gas is a huge part
Speaker 3: of it because it as provides heat and also gas
Speaker 3: also provides power or fuel for electricity. Yeah, I would
Speaker 3: say we bring them on the show.
Speaker 4: Fintn, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Great to be here.
Speaker 3: It's great to have you kick off with just if
Speaker 3: I look at this energy transition, it's been going on
Speaker 3: for quite a while and I just feel we're at
Speaker 3: an inflection point where you've got sort of in a
Speaker 3: lot of countries, you've got too much renewables, and obviously
Speaker 3: we've got this crisis ongoing crisis in the Gulf and
Speaker 3: all this. How do you, as someone who's really meant
Speaker 3: it to have to take a systemic view of that
Speaker 3: UK system, how do you look at the moment that
Speaker 3: we are at a present?
Speaker 6: So I think it is at an inflection point for
Speaker 6: various reasons, some of which you talked about, Jared, But
Speaker 6: if you look at what the UK is trying to achieve,
Speaker 6: so it is a very clear policy ambition, and in
Speaker 6: particular decarbonization of the electricity systems. Government has set a
Speaker 6: target to get to clean power by twenty thirty and
Speaker 6: that effectively means ninety five percent of the generation comes
Speaker 6: from clean sources by twenty thirty and that is hugely
Speaker 6: ambitious and will require a huge lift right across the
Speaker 6: industry in order to get that and to achieve it.
Speaker 1: And for two reasons I suppose we're at an inflection point.
Speaker 6: One, the current crisis in the trade of Hormuz and
Speaker 6: the previous crisis when Russia legally invaded Ukraine have shown
Speaker 6: the risks associated with relying on imported fossil fuels, and
Speaker 6: especially where those prices of those fossil fuels are set
Speaker 6: on international markets. The UK is seeing the impacts of
Speaker 6: that now with rising prices, and therefore that to some
Speaker 6: extent has catalyzed that transition and sort of reinforced the
Speaker 6: logic behind that transition to clean power by twenty thirteen.
Speaker 6: The other inflection point you're seeing is even within that transition,
Speaker 6: we're moving from the policy part and the enabling part
Speaker 6: into the real hard delivery on the ground. So it
Speaker 6: is that inflection we need to make is a move
Speaker 6: to real on the ground delivery. Cranes in the air,
Speaker 6: shovels in the ground, and delivery of infrastructure is really hard.
Speaker 6: This is a huge scale of transformation in terms of
Speaker 6: the clean generation that needs to be delivered, the new
Speaker 6: storage that's coming on, and the network that needs to
Speaker 6: support it.
Speaker 1: So for all of.
Speaker 6: Those reasons, it is at an inflection point, but I
Speaker 6: think one that has momentum.
Speaker 1: Certainly in gb.
Speaker 4: Well Finton you're the ELM, which means you need to
Speaker 4: ensure relevety twenty four to seven and you need to
Speaker 4: plan for the future at the same time. At the
Speaker 4: yet of nisso I calculated since you were at the
Speaker 4: end of natural greed stumble writer precis organization. You have
Speaker 4: had nine minister secretary from a politics point of view
Speaker 4: above you. So how do you manage a long term
Speaker 4: vision and mission with unfortunately a lot of politics rotation?
Speaker 4: Or is it stronger than short term politics?
Speaker 6: The advent and the creation of NISO actually is an
Speaker 6: opportunity to embed some of that longer term systemic, system
Speaker 6: wide thinking that allows for continuity through different political cycles.
Speaker 6: And you're always going to have changes in government, changes
Speaker 6: in secretary of state, those things are always going to happen.
Speaker 6: But I think the important thing is that alongside that,
Speaker 6: you do need an element of continuity, in particular in
Speaker 6: an energy system where you have large scale infrastructure that
Speaker 6: is delivered over multiple years.
Speaker 1: And the thing that the.
Speaker 6: Advent of NISO has enabled is the creation of that
Speaker 6: long term strategic plan for a great Britain's energy system
Speaker 6: and the transition that allows you to have that long
Speaker 6: term view, that confidence that enables people to invest and
Speaker 6: enables those longer term decisions to be taken and for
Speaker 6: them to be robust to changes in administration, whether that
Speaker 6: is government or secretary of State, et cetera. So it's
Speaker 6: a real issue or on. I think though that the
Speaker 6: creation of needs and the way it has been established
Speaker 6: as a public corporation but operationally independent for government, with
Speaker 6: its own board, its own chair, make sure that you
Speaker 6: can have that longer term view.
Speaker 2: Vincel I think myself in Laurmo will both share the
Speaker 2: same view, which is, look, an independent system operator is
Speaker 2: what we need to do going forward, because the word
Speaker 2: independent is really critical because you're not incentivized to put
Speaker 2: in one solution or the other. What you're there is
Speaker 2: to do the best. Had society really on that note there,
Speaker 2: I'd be very interested to hear how when you look
Speaker 2: at the future, the whole thing of non wire solutions
Speaker 2: versus wire solutions, how do you look at that.
Speaker 6: The exact model and how appropriate is I think differs
Speaker 6: for different jurisdictions. So if you look across the world,
Speaker 6: people have organized transmission system operators, independent system operators, regional
Speaker 6: trul in various different ways of different sets of responsibilities.
Speaker 6: The right answer in any given country is dependent upon
Speaker 6: the specifics of what's going on there and their current
Speaker 6: institutional arrangements. From our perspective, NGB, the thing that MESO
Speaker 6: allows us to do is in terms of planning one,
Speaker 6: you have that system wide planning because we're also responsible
Speaker 6: where the gas system planner as well, so we do
Speaker 6: genuinely have that whole system perspective and the strategic special
Speaker 6: energy plan that will develop. How has that view across
Speaker 6: all of those different energy vectors. And then also the
Speaker 6: thing you talk about, Jared is that ability to see
Speaker 6: you know, non wire solutions and so how can storage
Speaker 6: play a role in this? How can demand side response
Speaker 6: play a role in this? Are there advanced technologies you
Speaker 6: can deploy to sweat the assets more and get more
Speaker 6: out of them? How can AI help you with that?
Speaker 6: And being constructed and set up and governed in the
Speaker 6: way we are ensures that the strategic plans that we
Speaker 6: ultimately produce will actually deliver in the best interests of
Speaker 6: society and the economy because of the way we're set up.
Speaker 4: And I know it's a subject you're not directly responsively off,
Speaker 4: but I mean it's in the zone. Is a lot
Speaker 4: of people complaining that the price of electricity in the
Speaker 4: UK is much higher than in other even your open countries,
Speaker 4: and it's not really linked to the price of electricity
Speaker 4: po say, you know, link to a certain number of
Speaker 4: tuxic levies of charger which are added on the top
Speaker 4: of that, which of course is going to slow directification,
Speaker 4: especially of heating if you have in your opinion on it,
Speaker 4: How could we reduce the price of power for the
Speaker 4: end consumer.
Speaker 6: A lot of that comes down to policy choices by
Speaker 6: governments and regulators right and are not within our remat
Speaker 6: but certainly the price of energy in the UK absolutely
Speaker 6: needs to come down. We've seen price of energy rise
Speaker 6: as a function of what's happening in.
Speaker 1: Straight up our moves.
Speaker 6: We've seen it previously with Bush's a legal invasion of
Speaker 6: the Ukraine. Definitely it is contributing to the cost of
Speaker 6: living crisis right around the country and is not helping
Speaker 6: in terms of overall helping the economy grow, right. So
Speaker 6: definitely we need to find ways to get prices down,
Speaker 6: and that is through a combination of having a long
Speaker 6: term plan that actually does deliver secure, sustainable power but
Speaker 6: out of four prices, having a set of market arrangements
Speaker 6: that ensure that you get competitive forces, that you drive
Speaker 6: down price and you get the most competitive and economically
Speaker 6: efficient outcomes for consumers, and that you identify and progress
Speaker 6: those projects that can deliver that. And one of the
Speaker 6: big things that we're doing at the moment is reforming
Speaker 6: the connection queue, So trying to get down from what
Speaker 6: was the connection queue of seven to eight hundred giga,
Speaker 6: what's down to the two to three hundred giga, what's
Speaker 6: that are ready to go strategically aligned with government policy
Speaker 6: and making sure that you build out then the right
Speaker 6: network to support them. So I think there's a series
Speaker 6: of things that are in train that that should help.
Speaker 6: I also think that from a GB perspective, the price
Speaker 6: of electricity is very dependent and tied to the price
Speaker 6: of gas, which is set on international markets, and therefore
Speaker 6: that move towards clean power and getting away from the
Speaker 6: price of gas set in the price of electricity will
Speaker 6: be helpful as we progress that.
Speaker 3: I suppose the other thing that it is is the
Speaker 3: more you electrify, you could argue that the cheaper it's
Speaker 3: going to be for electricity because you've got more units
Speaker 3: to kill a lot of hours running through these wires.
Speaker 3: The only issue with that is that you sort of
Speaker 3: have to have the capex for the new grid before
Speaker 3: maybe you have the demand. And I suppose, going finding
Speaker 3: off with what Yourna said is I think what we
Speaker 3: scratch our heads about is just the incentive to electrify
Speaker 3: is not there because electricity is too expensive. And if
Speaker 3: you don't have the incentive to do that, you're building
Speaker 3: grid out. What you're actually doing is push the price up,
Speaker 3: which gives you the disincentive to electrifier. So it's a
Speaker 3: bit of a crazy situation that you're in. And I
Speaker 3: know it's not your job because you're not the government
Speaker 3: or anything like this, but I presume you really do
Speaker 3: have an important role and let's say, brainstorming with the
Speaker 3: government in around what they should and shouldn't do.
Speaker 6: So you're absolutely right to the extent you electrify and
Speaker 6: you spread fixed capital across up costs over more units
Speaker 6: of electricity than the cheaper that is, and that is.
Speaker 1: Helpful a lot of though.
Speaker 6: The infrastructure, the transmission infrastructure needed in GB right now, though,
Speaker 6: is around getting new renewable sources of generation and moving
Speaker 6: that generation to where the existing demand is as distinct
Speaker 6: from significant increases in demand. So the transmission infrastructure that
Speaker 6: we're looking at at the moment largely is driven by
Speaker 6: the fact that the new sources of generation are in
Speaker 6: very different places to where the ould sources of generation
Speaker 6: used to be, and that is sort of a move
Speaker 6: away from coal fired power plants located various sort of
Speaker 6: discrete locations around the country to offshore wind in the
Speaker 6: north Sea or on shore wind or solar at different
Speaker 6: places around the country. As we move further through the
Speaker 6: twenty thirties, etc. Then you start to see the demand
Speaker 6: growth part of a pick up as well.
Speaker 1: Jered.
Speaker 6: But I think in the first instance that transmission investment
Speaker 6: is around getting those renewable resources on and.
Speaker 1: The key is trying to match the timing.
Speaker 6: So you don't want to build the network ahead of
Speaker 6: time and it be there sitting not being used. Similarly,
Speaker 6: if it's late, you get additional constraint costs associated with
Speaker 6: generation that can't get to demand. So how do you
Speaker 6: marry up those two timelines. And what we're seeing in
Speaker 6: reality on the ground is that lee times for transmission
Speaker 6: over the last ten years have got significantly longer. It's
Speaker 6: taking significantly longer to get the planning, consenting, the construction,
Speaker 6: the commission, and the delivery of transmission. So those lee
Speaker 6: times are now longer than it is to typically deliver
Speaker 6: any of the generation resources.
Speaker 4: That's very interesting. So you end up with balanks in costs,
Speaker 4: which in fact costs a lot because there's just too
Speaker 4: much win. You known Scotland, and there's what is it
Speaker 4: by your four by US six which are and I
Speaker 4: know you and National Grid are working on it. With
Speaker 4: those subsey cables just going to go full of course
Speaker 4: they're going to be probably more expensive than overground, but
Speaker 4: at least it's relatively predictable. Was the system has been
Speaker 4: launched And to people who complain about balancing caers, I
Speaker 4: would say two things. Okay. Number one, geography it is
Speaker 4: what it is well along stretch it's you know, we're
Speaker 4: not Germany. And the second thing is, even if there's
Speaker 4: a lot of curtailment overall, the amount of gas we
Speaker 4: didn't need to import, it's certainly superior that whatever balancing cars.
Speaker 4: So it's kind of a teething issue, which I understand
Speaker 4: can be very irritating, but people need to see both
Speaker 4: sides of the ledger. Now very interestingly, you start talking
Speaker 4: about demand and I saw you made a great quote
Speaker 4: in the ft about Scotland. Data centers or data centers
Speaker 4: is the old rage right now? How do you plan
Speaker 4: to accommodate with data centers.
Speaker 6: Before we go on to data center on just on
Speaker 6: your point right balance and costs, there are two things to.
Speaker 1: Bear in mind.
Speaker 6: So one, where you get a mismatch between generation connecting
Speaker 6: before the network is delivered, you are going to get
Speaker 6: balancing costs and absolutely we should be driving to get
Speaker 6: those down. The other part is, of course you'll never
Speaker 6: get balancing costs zero. They shouldn't be zero. You would
Speaker 6: have absolutely goal plated the network if you built it
Speaker 6: such that there was never a pound spent on balancing costs.
Speaker 6: And what we try and do is find out what
Speaker 6: is that appropriate most economic balance that builds the right
Speaker 6: amount of grid to meet.
Speaker 1: It and deliver the most efficient one.
Speaker 6: On data centers, there's a huge focus on them at
Speaker 6: the moment due to the advances made and being made
Speaker 6: in AI, but also just their impact on the grid
Speaker 6: is just so significant, Like we are looking at gigawattscale
Speaker 6: data centers being delivered now. The first thing to say
Speaker 6: is that the UK government and has huge ambition about
Speaker 6: AI and associated with that the data centers that are
Speaker 6: needed in GB to do it, and we're really focused
Speaker 6: on making sure that we support them in that and
Speaker 6: ensure that GB can sort of benefit from the build
Speaker 6: out of that sort of AI infrastructure in GB. So
Speaker 6: the connection queue on the demand side is now over
Speaker 6: one hundred gigawatts of demand and the connection queue of
Speaker 6: that almost one hundred is data centers and that is
Speaker 6: all looking to connect broadly in the region between now
Speaker 6: and twenty thirty. And typically data centers have really short
Speaker 6: lead time sort of commitment to having the data center
Speaker 6: up and drawing power. I think if you look at
Speaker 6: the UK's ambition around data centers and actual delivery on
Speaker 6: the ground of what's needed in terms of data centers,
Speaker 6: it's not the one hundred gigawats that's in the queue. Actually,
Speaker 6: it's probably somewhere between eight, ten or twelve gigawats and
Speaker 6: a little bit on time horizon use on.
Speaker 1: But in the sort of twenty thirty time horizon that's.
Speaker 6: Broadly where you land and THEREFO we have a question
Speaker 6: of which of those data centers of the one hundred
Speaker 6: that are in the queue, which of those will go ahead,
Speaker 6: how do they get built out, et cetera.
Speaker 1: I think you can look around the.
Speaker 6: World and you can see where data centers have been
Speaker 6: managed really well and their integration on the grid has
Speaker 6: been managed really well, and you can see places around
Speaker 6: the world where actually it's been cost price rises and
Speaker 6: there's been a backlash against them. I think from our perspective,
Speaker 6: there's probably three things that we look at in order
Speaker 6: to make sure that data centers are additive to, or
Speaker 6: sympathetic with, or helpful to the grid. The first is location.
Speaker 6: At the moment, the main constrain some power flow in
Speaker 6: the grid are moving power north to south, and that
Speaker 6: is typically when it's windy, a lot of upfshore wind
Speaker 6: and trying to get it down to the south of England.
Speaker 6: So therey if you can put data centers to the
Speaker 6: north of that transmission constraint i e. In Scotland, that
Speaker 6: is more beneficial to the grid than putting them on
Speaker 6: the M four corridor, for example, in the southeast. So
Speaker 6: the location is really really important, and put them in
Speaker 6: the right place you need to build less new infrastructure,
Speaker 6: you'll be able to get them connected quicker. So that's
Speaker 6: the first one. The second one is around flexibility that
Speaker 6: those data centers can provide. I think you don't have
Speaker 6: to go back that far. When a data center load
Speaker 6: was almost entirely inflexible. It was going to come on,
Speaker 6: it was going to consume what it wanted to consume,
Speaker 6: and that was going to be it. I think though,
Speaker 6: in the last number of years, what you've seen is
Speaker 6: data center technology has got better and the need for
Speaker 6: them to be flexible has become really really important in
Speaker 6: their ability to get connected as more and more of
Speaker 6: them have gone on and grids have got constrained and
Speaker 6: they've responded and there are now increased levels of flexibility
Speaker 6: of different types available from data center and in some
Speaker 6: places that's been provided on a voluntary basis, in some
Speaker 6: places of contractual basis. Indeed, are's examples of where it
Speaker 6: is actually mandated as part of the legislation. But that
Speaker 6: flexibility makes a huge difference to security, supply margins, and
Speaker 6: ability to manage the grid. And then the third things
Speaker 6: around data centers that really matters is what is the
Speaker 6: timeline and the ramp up of capacity, because what you
Speaker 6: want to be able to do is to match the
Speaker 6: increase in demand with a similar increase on the supply side,
Speaker 6: such that you don't end up with the demand coming
Speaker 6: on significantly ahead of the generation or the supply side
Speaker 6: coming on, because that's just going to drive prices up.
Speaker 6: I mean this pretty straightforward economic theory that says that's
Speaker 6: just going to drive prices up. But if you can
Speaker 6: match the supply side with that ramp on the demand side, well,
Speaker 6: actually you have more units of energy over which to
Speaker 6: tribute some of the fixed costs, and as we talked
Speaker 6: about earlier, that could then overall reduce the per unit
Speaker 6: cost of electricity. But you've got to manage that timing
Speaker 6: really well. So location, flexibility, and timing are the sort
Speaker 6: of three critical things, and if you can manage them well,
Speaker 6: then I think data centers can be integrated and can
Speaker 6: be overall helpful to the system, and ultimately from a
Speaker 6: GB perspective, will help with that strategy around building GB
Speaker 6: as sort of an AI center.
Speaker 3: Finton just I want to just change it something slightly.
Speaker 3: And I suppose asked the question, your job, your huge responsibility.
Speaker 3: Your responsibility is one to make sure that people have
Speaker 3: gas electricity twenty four to seven. I suppose in that
Speaker 3: regardless was I was really coming from an energy security
Speaker 3: point of view. Is there anything where you really look
Speaker 3: at and say, I'm worried about that you need to
Speaker 3: get that sorted or do you literally sleep every night going,
Speaker 3: We've got it under control.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 3: It's done.
Speaker 6: So maybe two things from an energy security point of view,
Speaker 6: like don't go home and worry about any sort of
Speaker 6: macro threats or things that I don't believe are being
Speaker 6: gripped either.
Speaker 1: By us or by government or the regulator.
Speaker 6: But the world is a really uncertain place at the moment,
Speaker 6: right and we've seen that and is becoming increasingly more dangerous,
Speaker 6: and we're seeing energy security and national security becoming ever
Speaker 6: more intertwined. So those sort of things, yes, sort of
Speaker 6: those sort of unknown things outside.
Speaker 1: Of your control, you always worry about whether.
Speaker 6: That is also just you know, something happening like really
Speaker 6: bad storm or a fire or something that that takes out.
Speaker 6: So the thing you can do is prepare right so
Speaker 6: that you have a team, a control center, system managers
Speaker 6: that can respond to that.
Speaker 1: In the moment. That is really really important. From a
Speaker 1: company point of view.
Speaker 6: The more macro thing maybe is that I worry about
Speaker 6: is around social license to operate, Like are we doing
Speaker 6: the right thing? Like are we hitting the right balance
Speaker 6: between security, affordability sustainability, Like are we acting in the
Speaker 6: interests of GBPLC consumers, businesses, society because we're not for
Speaker 6: profit business. We're a public corporation and ultimately we exist
Speaker 6: to serve society in the economy and we're only able
Speaker 6: to do that so long as we actually do a
Speaker 6: good job at it. So that's the bit overall from
Speaker 6: a sort of a company perspective, that you're always trying
Speaker 6: to make sure that you're creating that right balance there.
Speaker 6: And it's called a trilemma for a reason. It's because
Speaker 6: actually you need to keep those three things in balance
Speaker 6: and make sure that you.
Speaker 1: Are meeting your objectives around all of those.
Speaker 4: One of the most amazing feature of your system is
Speaker 4: that GB's the biggest owner and manager of Subscencia connectors
Speaker 4: and you put one every eighteen months on average. So
Speaker 4: we've got some with France, Regium, Denmark, Norway, Ireland, we're
Speaker 4: going to Germany. What's your vision of a more interconnected grid,
Speaker 4: nike U, stronger, weaker? How do you see that?
Speaker 6: So I only see it increasing urn. There are two
Speaker 6: dimensions to it. One, it's a huge source of flexibility
Speaker 6: for the system here and when you look at the
Speaker 6: way we see the generation portfolio develop, we are going
Speaker 6: to need that flexibility in order to export our access
Speaker 6: power import power at times of lows renewable output, and
Speaker 6: those interconnectors provide a really really flexible resource and an
Speaker 6: ability to trade power to ensure that we're getting efficient
Speaker 6: and economic outcomes for consumers here and indeed enabling those
Speaker 6: countries we're interconnected with trade with us to help them
Speaker 6: as well. The other dimension of it besides sort of
Speaker 6: those interconnectors which exist between sort of two countries, is
Speaker 6: the increasing focus on building out the North Sea as
Speaker 6: a resource, and whether that is through things like the
Speaker 6: Energy Islands or hybrid interconnectors. We're very active members of
Speaker 6: the OTC, the US Show Transmission Coordination Initiative with a
Speaker 6: number of tsos that border the North Seas, and a
Speaker 6: key part of that is how can we help governments
Speaker 6: to deliver on the commitments that we're made in Hamburg
Speaker 6: around harnessing the huge potential that is in the North Sea.
Speaker 6: That's a voluntary collaboration, but I think it's been really
Speaker 6: really effective in delivering that. But stepping back from a
Speaker 6: gb perspective, even from a European perspective, further interconnection is
Speaker 6: a really good thing, and we see more interconnection coming.
Speaker 6: I mean, you talked about some of the ones that
Speaker 6: were on their development today sort of you know, ships
Speaker 6: out laying cables on some of them as we speak.
Speaker 6: But they will continue to develop, I think, and I
Speaker 6: think we'll see it evolve from just the point to
Speaker 6: point interconnectors, as I say, to other configurations that allow
Speaker 6: us to harness some of that terrific resources in the
Speaker 6: North Sea.
Speaker 4: And we'll go to America.
Speaker 1: Or maybe can I tell the one.
Speaker 3: I hear you, I hear you, Joah Pinon, maybe just
Speaker 3: for last question, give us a view of how you
Speaker 3: see gb energy system in twenty thirty.
Speaker 6: In twenty thirty, I see huge momentum around the transition
Speaker 6: towards clean power. Recent auction rounds by government have delivered
Speaker 6: new offshore wind. We're seeing development of onshore wind. We're
Speaker 6: seeing real progress on the transmission infrastructure.
Speaker 1: That needs to be built.
Speaker 6: So I see us absolutely transitioning to a situation where
Speaker 6: you have hit that sort of ninety five percent clean power.
Speaker 6: We'll see the UK at that point as a net
Speaker 6: exporter of energy over the array of interconnectors.
Speaker 1: That we have.
Speaker 6: We'd hopefully as well have seen a takeoff in demand
Speaker 6: side flexibility so that demand side will be a real
Speaker 6: contributor to.
Speaker 1: The energy system.
Speaker 6: It won't be just flexibility on the supply side of it.
Speaker 6: I think we're going to see a massive ramp up
Speaker 6: and the amount of storage and in particular batteries on
Speaker 6: the system between now and then.
Speaker 1: The number of them in the.
Speaker 6: Queue and the desire for them to connect is absolutely huge.
Speaker 1: We have a lot of.
Speaker 6: Them already, but I think we're going to see a
Speaker 6: huge amount more of them in the coming time. And
Speaker 6: the other bit is that we will see hopefully a
Speaker 6: step change in the digitalization of the energy system. There's
Speaker 6: been a lot of talk about it, a lot of
Speaker 6: initiatives in specific areas, sort of pilot projects in each
Speaker 6: but I think we're moving towards a much more coordinated
Speaker 6: approach to building out a digital spine that will enable
Speaker 6: digitalization to take hold in a much much broader and
Speaker 6: more systemic way, and I think that will deliver huge
Speaker 6: benefits for consumers. When we've seen it happen in other industries,
Speaker 6: has been really really difficult at the outset to see
Speaker 6: what the impact would be, but it always delivers benefits
Speaker 6: for consumers. So that is the other bit I see
Speaker 6: throughout which we don't maybe talk about as much, but
Speaker 6: I think it will be transformative, fantastic.
Speaker 4: Wellfinton, it's a treat to a yonder show. So thank
Speaker 4: you very much. And as we say, there's a sheriff
Speaker 4: in town. Always a pleasure to be here. Thank you
Speaker 4: very much, thank you, Bye well John. I'm reassured because
Speaker 4: there's someone at the helm, not only him, but his
Speaker 4: all organizations really know what they're doing. I feel kind
Speaker 4: of confident and overall is balanced when you talk about
Speaker 4: the data centers, when you talk about the do we
Speaker 4: invest in two generations or transmission and trying to harmonize
Speaker 4: and organize everything. It's a tough job because everybody's screaming,
Speaker 4: everybody's winging, and he has to stay steady.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no better man to do it. And listen, he's
Speaker 3: done a great job over the last few years there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: As I said, and I think he agreed, is that
Speaker 3: we are an inflection point in this energy transition and
Speaker 3: we're going to have to electrify. We're going to electrify
Speaker 3: quicker and that's an exciting place and next few years.
Speaker 4: And it's really about efficiency. There's no you know, I'm
Speaker 4: not nuclear there, I want this. There's very energy pragmatic
Speaker 4: and it's role is very clear. The energy security, affordability
Speaker 4: and clean clean is relatively easy because we're not going
Speaker 4: to build any more gas plant, certainly not core planned.
Speaker 4: There's a question. I would have a love to ask him,
Speaker 4: but we didn't have any time. Why on earth is
Speaker 4: the UK government giving two billionaire subsidiy to drugs with
Speaker 4: burning wood chips. That's the ural story. It's for another time, for.
Speaker 3: Another time, exactly, my friend. So I wish you a great.
Speaker 4: Week and I'll talk to you next week looking forward.
Speaker 6: To Thank you for listening to Redefining Energy.
Speaker 3: Don't forget to rate the show and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
Speaker 3: or the platform of your choice.