Speaker 1: It's gold.
Speaker 2: Showtime. Folks. Well, we're coming to the end of September
Speaker 2: and it's another edition of block culture. That interesting new development,
Speaker 2: which is that our own Rob Long is now in Princeton,
Speaker 2: New Jersey, and sadly I have to report, since we
Speaker 2: do not do this on video, that Rob has no vestments.
Speaker 1: He just is looking like I won't have been here
Speaker 1: three weeks. That there's a Okay, you're altar.
Speaker 2: Boy, but if you're an altar boy, don't you get
Speaker 2: some kind of an outfit?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you don't hang out You don't hang out
Speaker 1: in any outfit.
Speaker 2: You don't you know?
Speaker 1: Okay, you you were the big beard in the hat
Speaker 1: all day. No, yes, well, if.
Speaker 2: You are a big beard in the hat guy, you
Speaker 2: wear the big beard in the.
Speaker 1: Hat all day. So we're starting, we're starting.
Speaker 2: We're starting to anti Semitism and anti Christianism. We're going
Speaker 2: everywhere except anti Muslimism because we do not want to
Speaker 2: we don't want to sell so in Washington as he
Speaker 2: usually is, Jonah Goldberg, Hi, Jonah, Hey, John, and I am,
Speaker 2: of course John pot Horns and I'm in New York
Speaker 2: and we are here to amuse you with feats of
Speaker 2: press to digitation the likes of which you have never seen.
Speaker 2: We have no topics, we have nothing to talk about.
Speaker 2: We're not going to talk about Trump and and Harris apparently, Okay,
Speaker 2: I got nothing to say. I talked five hours a
Speaker 2: week about them, so I got nothing left to say.
Speaker 2: Uh So we did put out a call on Twitter
Speaker 2: for questions from the gloparati. The the glopatariat. I mean,
Speaker 2: I like that you are going low. I'm going high.
Speaker 2: I'm going with the gloss.
Speaker 1: You are concern you said the GLASI.
Speaker 2: Now right in the middle glo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the glop. What I like is that you put
Speaker 1: that you tweeted that thing, like, you know, forty five
Speaker 1: minutes ago, and we have a million billion tweets suggesting
Speaker 1: that the people who listen to glop are not busy
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day.
Speaker 2: Is anybody is anybody in America? Is that the people
Speaker 2: who are who are actually doing things that are valuable.
Speaker 1: I'm busy in the middle of the day. I'm in
Speaker 1: between classes. You know that. I came back and I'm
Speaker 1: sitting here. I'm in between classes, in between Biblical Greek,
Speaker 1: and then I have to go back and I have
Speaker 1: to study for my Old Testament quiz.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, you know, as a as a master of
Speaker 2: biblical Greek, I guess that means you're not a master
Speaker 2: of like literary Greek. I have an interest. I'm in
Speaker 2: an interesting place. Not to get incredibly pretentious, but I
Speaker 2: am my son is about to start reading the Odyssey
Speaker 2: in high school, and I decided that it had been many,
Speaker 2: many decades since i'd read the Iliad in the Odyssey.
Speaker 2: So I started to read the Iliad and I really
Speaker 2: didn't know what to do because I didn't know whether
Speaker 2: to read the Fagels translation or the new Emily Wilson
Speaker 2: translation Robert Fitzgerald translation. Okay, so I ended up downloading
Speaker 2: to audible the Fagels translation, which is amazing, which is
Speaker 2: an amazing I actually don't know who's reading it. I
Speaker 2: should look it up and tell it, but I mean,
Speaker 2: it's a British actor who is declaiming it, and it
Speaker 2: is it is thrilling to listen to it.
Speaker 1: And he was like, you know, he taught right here.
Speaker 1: He taught it, Prince did and his his Odyssey, I
Speaker 1: have to say, is actually I mean I tried to
Speaker 1: read the Elia of the year few years ago, and I
Speaker 1: just thought, I hate I hate this so much. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then then I thought I was going to read
Speaker 1: the Alien on the Odyssey, and I threw the Ilia
Speaker 1: way and I picked up the Oys. And what you
Speaker 1: discover when you read the Odyssey is it's really good.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's good stuff.
Speaker 2: So I think the Iliod is really good stuff. And
Speaker 2: I had forgotten again because it had been decades and
Speaker 2: decades that the Iliad, which is essentially it's one of
Speaker 2: the two foundational works of non religious Western culture, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, it is these sort of foundational.
Speaker 1: And Valley of the Dolls, and you know.
Speaker 2: It begins smack dab in the middle, like there's no
Speaker 2: there's no lead up, there's no there's no introductory, there's
Speaker 2: no prologue.
Speaker 1: There's no previously on the Iliad.
Speaker 2: We're right there in year ten of the Trojan War,
Speaker 2: right there. And it begins with the argument between Achilles
Speaker 2: and Agamemnon over who gets the greater honor and whether
Speaker 2: Acabemnon is going to take Achilles's honor away from Achilles
Speaker 2: is doing all the fighting in the war. Agabemnon is
Speaker 2: just a big blow hard jerk, and and and this
Speaker 2: opening is just two men screaming at each other on
Speaker 2: a beach, and it is fantastic and you're like, you know,
Speaker 2: we always think about these literary works as they're sort
Speaker 2: of high bound and you know, and I mean, this
Speaker 2: is this is like woof.
Speaker 1: I also remember that it wasn't it helps Remember it
Speaker 1: was not written right, it was so it was spoken
Speaker 1: after dinner. It's an after dinner piece. So like people
Speaker 1: had already had a little bit of wine, a little
Speaker 1: bit of food, you know, and you had to keep
Speaker 1: them occupied, and you had to tell them the fun stuff.
Speaker 1: You had to jump right in the middle. I mean storytelling.
Speaker 1: When I want to like start in the middle, don't
Speaker 1: start at the once upon a time. It's like people
Speaker 1: aren't gonna they'll just turn it off. It's kind of
Speaker 1: good stuff.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm gonna bring one thing up and then
Speaker 2: we can go to the question. So I just watched
Speaker 2: what I think this is your business?
Speaker 1: Rob.
Speaker 2: So that's why, aside, of course from saving souls and interpreting,
Speaker 2: I got a lot of Yeah. But so there is
Speaker 2: a new version of Mattlock right the Andy Griffith Lawyer
Speaker 2: show there. It is starring Kathy Bates, and the situation
Speaker 2: is Kathy Bates is a seventy five year old woman.
Speaker 2: She walks into a law firm in New York City saying,
Speaker 2: I'm been a lawyer in thirty years, but I can
Speaker 2: really help you, and she immediately threw various ways gets
Speaker 2: on a case. It's a case of police corruption thirty
Speaker 2: years earlier. Blah blah blah. So two things about it.
Speaker 2: This to me, having watched another pilot of a police
Speaker 2: procedural earlier this week called The High Potential. Also a
Speaker 2: very good female lead performance by Caitlin Nelson from It's
Speaker 2: Always Sending in Philadelphia, that very contrived. This was maybe
Speaker 2: the best pilot I have seen in decades. Establishes characters,
Speaker 2: establishes this law firm.
Speaker 3: Starts with two guys arguing on a beach.
Speaker 1: Practically where you find this?
Speaker 2: What network is? It's on It's on CBS. I just
Speaker 2: watched it on.
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus, so you want my take on that.
Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is, here's the thing. So you
Speaker 2: have to establish this. It's a it's a it's ad
Speaker 2: a question. I'm about to ask the question, But unlike
Speaker 2: in Medius race, I must set up the question with
Speaker 2: a prologue, a lengthy prolog so that you know where
Speaker 2: I'm So you got to set up Kathy Bates is
Speaker 2: an old woman, a Southern coming into this New York
Speaker 2: law firm. Figures out how to walk into walk into
Speaker 2: the partner's office, cutesy corn pony, gets herself in, gets
Speaker 2: yourself on a trial, establishes herself as a character, establishes
Speaker 2: they established four other lawyers in the firm as characters.
Speaker 2: And then there's a case that needs to be solved,
Speaker 2: and then there is a reveal at the end that
Speaker 2: I won't go through. And it was picture perfect as
Speaker 2: a setup for a long form series, not a sitcom though,
Speaker 2: like drama obviously. And I'm looking at and I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: why is this so? Why is it that most pilots
Speaker 2: are so labored that you watch them and you never
Speaker 2: want to watch another episode again. Is it that they
Speaker 2: figure out how to live in it and then they
Speaker 2: make the pilot, or is it that they go into
Speaker 2: making a pilot with some external idea that they don't
Speaker 2: really buy, and then as they're doing it, they kind
Speaker 2: of make up reasons why these characters are together or
Speaker 2: what they're doing and therefore it never feels lived in.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure. Every
Speaker 1: pilot's different, right, everybody doing one's different. And sometimes they're
Speaker 1: just deal memos that just became shows, and sometimes they're
Speaker 1: you know, they were started something else and then got
Speaker 1: moved into something else. I don't know the answer. I
Speaker 1: would just say this is that the surprising thing is
Speaker 1: that if you take all of the TV production entities
Speaker 1: and all the networks and you find the one found
Speaker 1: found the one that's the most hide bound and probably
Speaker 1: the most cost conscious, it's CBS. And that those those
Speaker 1: restraints and restrictions made the pilot better, I guarantee you.
Speaker 1: And the fact that the people watching that pilot don't
Speaker 1: have to be is this a you know, like if
Speaker 1: you're a free market conservative, it's like, once you pay
Speaker 1: for something, you're just you're done, You're in. Right, the
Speaker 1: customer in broadcast television and add support a TV, they
Speaker 1: have to keep that customer watching. If if you turn
Speaker 1: away from it, it's all over. Whereas if you're watching
Speaker 1: Netflix and you decide you don't want to watch episodes
Speaker 1: ninety through ten thousand, or six through nine or whatever,
Speaker 1: it is there to get your money. It's all you
Speaker 1: can eat, and they thought for years that the all
Speaker 1: you can eat model was going to be better, and
Speaker 1: it actually turns out of bankrupting the whole business and
Speaker 1: they may end up having to go back to the
Speaker 1: people who know how to put on a pilot that
Speaker 1: gets John but Oritz to watch the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Now. Of course, I'm sixty three, which is why I
Speaker 2: like Matlock. Right, It's like it's now built into your
Speaker 2: DNA as you age, as entropy overtakes. It's a it's Mattlock, Matlock, Okay.
Speaker 1: But it's a law show. It's a court show. Plucky lawyer,
Speaker 1: she does the thing. Hey, I got it. Like it's
Speaker 1: like you're calling them out lock just to get you
Speaker 1: to watch it. But it's like a it's a courtroom
Speaker 1: show they have there's a courtroom show on all the time, right,
Speaker 1: and they're the best, the easiest to write. It's one
Speaker 1: person stands up and gives a speech and the others
Speaker 1: are forced to listen. It's sort of like the commentary
Speaker 1: podcast and then that person eventually sits down. But that's
Speaker 1: what that's what it's the easiest thing. You're out of order.
Speaker 1: Counselor approach the bench. I got it, I'll allow it.
Speaker 1: I got it.
Speaker 2: I'll allow it, which is my favorite, as you know,
Speaker 2: and then go through life like that, right, and.
Speaker 1: Then you write this somewhere. The drama part is the
Speaker 1: best part is then you have to like this, but
Speaker 1: I need to know about these people. Then you have
Speaker 1: the lawyers at home and they're you know, they're in bed,
Speaker 1: and then one of them says you're the other says
Speaker 1: that's out of order, counselor because they talk that way.
Speaker 1: And then when you the lady, the ladies who are tough,
Speaker 1: I'll always call you out your last name. It's done.
Speaker 1: And then people like it. It's like, what's why? Why
Speaker 1: think about it so hard? Make it good? And they
Speaker 1: made a good version of it.
Speaker 3: Is that I want John from now on to introduce
Speaker 3: every the other people on the Contrary podcast is jour
Speaker 3: number one, number two?
Speaker 1: You're out of order?
Speaker 2: Know when they try to say something, I'll say, I'll
Speaker 2: allow it. How about that? Yeah? Yeah, watch it. I'm
Speaker 2: going to give you a short lead. We're gonna take
Speaker 2: this to thin I counseling. All right, Okay, so I'm
Speaker 2: gonna I'm going to offer the first question. I'm we're
Speaker 2: going culture nerd here, okay with the first question from
Speaker 2: our from our followers. I okay, this is from someone
Speaker 2: called novel Drive. So it's not even a name novel Drive.
Speaker 3: That Gary, you just respect the great family of the
Speaker 3: novel Drives.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 1: They changed him and they had Ellis Island.
Speaker 2: Okay. Why do you think Hamilton completely vanished from the
Speaker 2: cultural zeitgeist? Did it just get old? Or do you
Speaker 2: think it's message? So this sweek became problematic in the
Speaker 2: wake of the Trump presidency and the Black Lives Matter movement.
Speaker 2: This is a very interesting question has out viewed in
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. Just too right. It is still running on
Speaker 2: Broadway and it still has multiple editions of it in
Speaker 2: different cities. It's in London, it's still selling out on Broadway.
Speaker 2: But it was a gigantic cultural phenomenon. It seems to
Speaker 2: be no and a debut on Disney Plus during the pandemic.
Speaker 2: Not a huge audience. But yes, so he do you
Speaker 2: accept the do you accept the basis of this question
Speaker 2: that it's vanished from the cultures like geist or is
Speaker 2: it just simply that it's nine years old and things
Speaker 2: have passed it, or is there something about the way
Speaker 2: the culture moved that made it that dated it in
Speaker 2: some fashions.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, sorry, John, I'll so.
Speaker 3: I think it's carefully Jonah's a great question and perfectly
Speaker 3: timed to the recent debut of America's foremost intellectual Schmendrick
Speaker 3: U tany Heasy Coats because uh, who has a cover
Speaker 3: on the New York Magazine cover profile New York Magazine.
Speaker 3: I think Coats and Black Lives Matter came in an
Speaker 3: exact moment where it became unfashionable to think that we
Speaker 3: were that we had made any racial progress. It was
Speaker 3: unfashionable to be you know, I don't want to say
Speaker 3: everyone was became unpatriotic, but to sort of conventional expressions
Speaker 3: of patriotism became even less cool for a while. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I agree, and I think, I mean, you guys would
Speaker 3: know this stuff better than I do. But you know,
Speaker 3: we've talked about like before, how like Moby Dick wasn't
Speaker 3: popular when it came out, and all these kinds of things.
Speaker 3: There are some things that are very popular when they
Speaker 3: come out, and then they go into a long hiatus,
Speaker 3: They go into sort of a quiescent phase, and then
Speaker 3: when the mom's right, they become popular again. And I
Speaker 3: could definitely see Hamilton sort of having a second wave
Speaker 3: at some point down the road, probably like even under
Speaker 3: a Harris administration. But I do think that like it
Speaker 3: became ghost to celebrate the sort of I mean, I
Speaker 3: remember Rob, you know, we were talking about how it
Speaker 3: was like a modern day schoolhouse rock, you know, and
Speaker 3: it was such a wonderfully pro Erican thing and such
Speaker 3: a great sort of syncretic thing to use in all
Speaker 3: black casts and use basically in rap and all that.
Speaker 3: And and then that just got welched by the Black
Speaker 3: Lives Matter movement and the anti Trump stuff and all
Speaker 3: that kind of thing. But I think the fact that
Speaker 3: it's still going strong in the real world suggests that
Speaker 3: it could get a new found appreciation. I could see
Speaker 3: someone writing an essay it's time to watch Hamilton again,
Speaker 3: you know, and coming.
Speaker 1: Back, I would just say this, the premise of Hamilton
Speaker 1: is that the founders were great men, engaged in a
Speaker 1: great experiment.
Speaker 3: Great flawed men.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and the they should be celebrated for that.
Speaker 1: And that is anathema to the left, and it's anathema
Speaker 1: to the Trump right the question mentioned tripe, you know Trump,
Speaker 1: I mean, Americas, is this where a failing country or disaster? Everything,
Speaker 1: Everything's horrible. We're on the precipice of room in a disaster.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're if you believe in the if
Speaker 1: you believe that the founders were correct and they created
Speaker 1: a government and a subsequent society that is fantastic and
Speaker 1: you know, the probably the greatest single achievement of mankind.
Speaker 1: You know, you're just at a step where I don't
Speaker 1: know what party you're in because you're not in neither one.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it needs to take a break.
Speaker 1: Which is the irony of it is that it does.
Speaker 1: It came right at the right at a time when
Speaker 1: it could have been celebrated, and instead it just feels irrelevant,
Speaker 1: which is tragic because it's a it's probably the most
Speaker 1: patriarchic piece of art that's ever been created.
Speaker 2: I mean, and it's patriotic in a in a new way,
Speaker 2: and that there was there were objections to it on
Speaker 2: the part of a kind of phide bound you know. Yes, Uh,
Speaker 2: it's a multicultural cast. You know, Linn Bahn Miranda is
Speaker 2: himself Puerto Rican. Uh, Daved Diggs who played Jefferson and
Speaker 2: Lafayette is half Jewish, half Black, Lamar Odom Junior who
Speaker 2: played Leslie Odom Junior, who played Burr Black, you know,
Speaker 2: the Scholar Sisters Black, all of that rap music. But
Speaker 2: the idea was that they were going to enact, they
Speaker 2: enact a pageant version of the Founding of the United States,
Speaker 2: with Alexander Hamilton as the central figure. And it is.
Speaker 2: I happened to listen to it with one of my
Speaker 2: kids on a long car drive a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 2: and it is a masterpiece. It may well be the
Speaker 2: single best work of American art of the twentieth twenty
Speaker 2: first century. And I'm not I can't take.
Speaker 3: That's aim right.
Speaker 2: And the expansion the idea that the found talk about
Speaker 2: an important message for now that was made possible maybe
Speaker 2: by the Obama presidency, but now that the Founding is
Speaker 2: for everyone, Yeah, the American Founding is for that's everyone.
Speaker 1: That's what's yeah. Because it was amazing was that for
Speaker 1: years in college and before in the culture, Uh, it
Speaker 1: was considered normal. This is this is now very the
Speaker 1: tinkertoy version of the craziness that exists now. But on
Speaker 1: college campus is the dead white European man. At least
Speaker 1: people have nothing to say to me that, the people
Speaker 1: who wrote the Constitution and the Declaration and the founders,
Speaker 1: they have nothing to say to me if I am
Speaker 1: not also a white European male. And the response to
Speaker 1: that was, no, no, you don't understand. George Washington belongs
Speaker 1: to all of us, and so does Thomas Jefferson, and
Speaker 1: so does Alexanda Hamilton, and the story of the founding
Speaker 1: of America belongs to all Americans, irrespective of their race.
Speaker 1: And lin Manuel simply took that on its face. He said, okay,
Speaker 1: how about this. And it was a magnificent piece of art.
Speaker 1: It's incredibly riveting, it's a great piece of theater. It's
Speaker 1: it's a Le'll give it the highest possible accolade. It's
Speaker 1: the highest piece of show business I've ever seen. Right,
Speaker 1: it's great show business. And it just simply, you know,
Speaker 1: it took us, that took those people saying that at
Speaker 1: their word, and what came out of that was something terrific.
Speaker 1: He didn't say, you're a liar. No, I have to
Speaker 1: come up with my own, you know, the quansa version. No,
Speaker 1: it's he took the version that exists and he said, okay,
Speaker 1: it's mine too, and that's pretty amazing. It's been amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just before you do it more amazing. Okay, just
Speaker 2: to close the circle here. So I think it has
Speaker 2: thirty four numbers. Hamilton's three hours long. I think it
Speaker 2: has thirty four separate numbers. The lyrical invention, the wordsmith
Speaker 2: ory that this guy who I think was thirty three
Speaker 2: or something when he did it all in spaired by
Speaker 2: the fact that he brought Ron Schrenhau's biography of Hamilton
Speaker 2: with him on his honeymoon. I don't know that it's
Speaker 2: ever been matched. And you know, this is one of
Speaker 2: these works, rare works that the book music and lyrics
Speaker 2: pretty much written by the same person. There four or
Speaker 2: five of these in Broadway history. But you know, simply
Speaker 2: as a matter of as a piece of writing, word
Speaker 2: by word, lyric by lyric, rhyme by rhyme, internal rhyme
Speaker 2: by internal rhyme, it is jaw droppingly clever and incredibly touching.
Speaker 2: And if it has gone out of fashion, that's because
Speaker 2: Trump is right, and we stink he's just raw. He's
Speaker 2: right the wrong way, like we stink because everybody is
Speaker 2: now viewing everything through every possible filter, except what is
Speaker 2: this thing in front of me that I can experience
Speaker 2: fresh without putting on my ideological filter and saying, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't like what it says about immigration, or or
Speaker 2: it doesn't say enough about how many America and the
Speaker 2: founders were to people. There's a joke in it about
Speaker 2: Sally Hemmings.
Speaker 1: There's a joke, big, big laugh in the show, big
Speaker 1: laugh in the show.
Speaker 2: Okay, anyway, I'm just going to.
Speaker 1: Say that he was.
Speaker 3: Also, you would never have predicted it from the guy
Speaker 3: who worked on the J. Peterman catalog in Seinfeld, Right,
Speaker 3: this is glop. I have to point that out.
Speaker 1: That's true, Alexander Hamilton. You know else I have to
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Speaker 2: Can I just ask you, now that you are back
Speaker 2: in school, are you going to get Kurt Vonnegut to
Speaker 2: write your paper?
Speaker 1: Well, he's he's deceased.
Speaker 2: So you could, yes, But could you get you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Matthew, Mark Lucer John to come and
Speaker 2: write your write your paper.
Speaker 1: And well, I mean they didn't write the Gospels, so yeah, No.
Speaker 1: What we do is we look at primary sources. So
Speaker 1: I don't need any of those people since I have
Speaker 1: you know, Athanasius and Origin and blah blah blah, and
Speaker 1: other people whose names are complicated to to the one
Speaker 1: thing I've enjoyed was that I'm with a lot of
Speaker 1: young people, right, so like a lot of young people,
Speaker 1: and and I I am me so like we're reading
Speaker 1: about the Christian martyrs, and I'm like, man, that's some
Speaker 1: that's all over the top. I think I think that
Speaker 1: that stuff really happened. That seems you know, I mean
Speaker 1: we've all seen Saw Saw too, right. I raised my hand,
Speaker 1: and you know, these are very earnest young people, like well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. It reminds me of Saw,
Speaker 1: Like well, it does reminds me of Saw. So anyway,
Speaker 1: that's that's my my my take on it is that
Speaker 1: college camp, this college campus anyway, seems filled with very purposeful, thoughtful,
Speaker 1: very smart, very well read young people who who who
Speaker 1: I'm Well, I'm I'm Rodney Dangerfield, That's what I am
Speaker 1: in this respect. And this yeah, this firsture, that's the question.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The next question for us is where to build a factory?
Speaker 2: How about fantasy land? That's right, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: And so you would, yes you should, Okay, all right,
Speaker 2: so here we have.
Speaker 3: The school.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very dangerous because you know, no one should
Speaker 2: do that dive.
Speaker 1: Because it's it's it's one of those famous famous college
Speaker 1: swim diving rivalries that the whole college turns out to see. Yeah,
Speaker 1: are you going to go to the big swim diving
Speaker 1: meet against State? Well, yes, of course it's it's not
Speaker 1: a made up thing at all.
Speaker 2: Speaking of it, you know, you remember that Robert Downey
Speaker 2: Junior plays Not That Not the Sun, like you must
Speaker 2: have auditioned for the Sun, didn't get the Sun. Keith
Speaker 2: Gordon got the Sun, so he gets the best friend
Speaker 2: of the Sun. As this happens to these movies.
Speaker 3: I do think he was miscast as doctor Doom. Someone's
Speaker 3: got to hold up. They're part of the traditional glop
Speaker 3: here who had a lot of Iliad and Philip I apologize.
Speaker 2: Okay, so doctor Doom, so you should explain what you're
Speaker 2: talking about here, because I barely even know who doctor
Speaker 2: Doom is. So I do know he's getting paid two
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars to be doctor Doom or something.
Speaker 3: So so, Doctor Doom is one of the great villains
Speaker 3: in Marvel comics. He's the primary foe the Fantastic Four,
Speaker 3: which they've tried to make good movies out of and
Speaker 3: failed and and they cast uh Robert Downing Jr. As
Speaker 3: Doctor Doom. Doctor Doom is a from a fictional East
Speaker 3: European country. He's a dictator there. There's actually a Grada
Speaker 3: Latvia is what it's called. No, no, no, no Latveria.
Speaker 3: I apologize and sorry all my friend.
Speaker 2: Captive nation by Doctor Doom. Okay, go ahead. Sorry.
Speaker 3: Well, there's a great episode where the Fantastic Four go
Speaker 3: to Laveria the issue with the comic where they go
Speaker 3: to Laveria to capture doctor Doom and bring the fight
Speaker 3: to him, and out from behind the corner comes Henry
Speaker 3: Kissinger who says, you can't. We've just signed a treaty
Speaker 3: because they're holding off the communist heer. Anyway, they shouldn't
Speaker 3: have picked him. You know, he's the guy who played
Speaker 3: iron Man so well blah blah blah blah blah. But
Speaker 3: I don't blame him for taking the because was it
Speaker 3: eighty million dollars or something to do it.
Speaker 2: I believe it is thought that if those he's signed
Speaker 2: two movies, two movie deal, he can't play iron Man anymore.
Speaker 2: They have a problem because the because everything that's happened
Speaker 2: since the end of the Marvel cinematic, the first phase
Speaker 2: of the Marvels that has like been a dud except
Speaker 2: for Spider Man movies. So they shot the wad. They
Speaker 2: were like, Okay, what we got to do is bring
Speaker 2: back the magic. We'll cast him in a different way.
Speaker 2: He'll play a villain in the Fantastic four reboot that
Speaker 2: we're about to do. And he's like, you know, Brinks trucks,
Speaker 2: back up twelve of them again, I'm not doing this.
Speaker 2: And apparently it is going to be the single biggest
Speaker 2: payday that any anyone has ever had from any work
Speaker 2: of popular entertainment ever. Could be as much as two
Speaker 2: hundred or three hundred million dollars, depending on how it does.
Speaker 2: He supposedly made a hundred million dollars off of Endgame,
Speaker 2: the last I believe that Bengers movie. And know, yeah,
Speaker 2: speaking but he's bad casting. You're saying it's bad cast.
Speaker 3: I think it's a bad idea. That should have had
Speaker 3: that what's his name, the guy from Oppenheimer and Peaky Blinders,
Speaker 3: Uh Killian Murphy. Yeah, that's who the fans really wanted
Speaker 3: to play him.
Speaker 2: He would have been great, But when he played Sandman, right,
Speaker 2: doesn't he play in the Batman? Okay? All right, okay,
Speaker 2: I got so.
Speaker 1: Rob, can I just talk here a minute? Just I
Speaker 1: don't know whether this you mentioned this or not that
Speaker 1: Matt Locke airing on CBS overnights. Overnights got a seven
Speaker 1: point seven million viewers overnight, so it's live plus the
Speaker 1: same day. Oh no, sorry, that's those the Fast Nationals.
Speaker 1: So that's actually that's a lot and it won't go up
Speaker 1: that much after the Fast Nationals, but it might. He
Speaker 1: hit eight eight halfs. It's a lot of people, now, yeah,
Speaker 1: people like him at yeah, okay, it.
Speaker 2: So there are some questions. I'm just gonna I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna go through them very quickly. You don't have to
Speaker 2: answer any of them. And if you don't get what,
Speaker 2: I'm going to make a reference something here, we're just
Speaker 2: going to go past it, and no one is allowed
Speaker 2: to answer it. What glass cleaner did Danny Thomas endorse.
Speaker 2: We're just going to move past that to go.
Speaker 1: To to go to.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, okay, did Game of Thrones poison long form
Speaker 2: show plots so that few, if any, likable characters are included.
Speaker 2: So this is an interesting question. So we have these shows, uh,
Speaker 2: and they're very anti hero based, and this guy, uh,
Speaker 2: just another Bob is his name? I want to know
Speaker 2: if they ruined it, and I would say that it's
Speaker 2: it's not Game of Thrones, which did the opposite I
Speaker 2: would say, which is that it introduced a lovable character
Speaker 2: and then murdered him so that you knew that the
Speaker 2: show could go anywhere in any way. Had your set
Speaker 2: up a hero and then killed him off, and then
Speaker 2: it had to build from a bunch of very seemingly
Speaker 2: unattractive people, people that you nonetheless came to admire. But
Speaker 2: wouldn't you say that this is really this is the
Speaker 2: Sopranos effect. I mean that if you have long form
Speaker 2: shows that are based on characters who aren't that attractive
Speaker 2: or likable or something like that, that's that attractive.
Speaker 1: What is attractive means likable?
Speaker 2: He says likable, likable.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: It's Tony.
Speaker 1: You know, you had to remind yourself of a psychopath
Speaker 1: because he was still appealing.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, you wouldn't have said that about Vic Mackey
Speaker 2: of the Shield, right, because he wasn't really likable. Right,
Speaker 2: that was his biggest show, right, Although that was that
Speaker 2: is considered in the annals of the sort of academic
Speaker 2: studies of the anti hero introduct the shield. What was
Speaker 2: that a snore? It was this?
Speaker 3: It was a snore turned into a snort.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, the sound of one makes during Okay.
Speaker 2: So maybe that's not a good question.
Speaker 3: I think a quick stid of uh, because uh, I've
Speaker 3: actually written a lot about these byronic and basically bad
Speaker 3: people as heroes for a long time. I think you
Speaker 3: can make the case. It starts with Hannibal Lecter and
Speaker 3: Hannah Lecker was incredibly compelling character. But I remember taking
Speaker 3: a girl on a date. I'd seen the movie in
Speaker 3: Prague when I lived in Prague, and I brought her
Speaker 3: to the movie and she spent most of her time
Speaker 3: hiding behind her coat and terrified. And at one point
Speaker 3: she turns to me and she says, he thinks it's
Speaker 3: good to eat people. Yes, And it's like, yes, he
Speaker 3: thinks it's good to eat people.
Speaker 1: It wasn't.
Speaker 3: But anyway, the thing is is like, remember they made
Speaker 3: a show out of Annibal Lecter. It was three or
Speaker 3: four seasons on I think NBC, and then you had
Speaker 3: more and more characters. Mel Gibson in payback, Right, you
Speaker 3: had and then you had NYPD Blue, where you're supposed
Speaker 3: to root for the guys who beat up cops, beat
Speaker 3: up suspects and that kind of stuff. And then you
Speaker 3: go into overdrive with the Shield. And then you have
Speaker 3: the Sopranos. You have Breaking Bad right, where you root
Speaker 3: for the villain. You have the wire where you're like
Speaker 3: rooting for murderers and drug dealers who are slightly more compelling,
Speaker 3: and you're off to the races. And I think this
Speaker 3: has just been one of these things that has been
Speaker 3: supposed to be smart writing is supposed to make evil
Speaker 3: people compelling for like the last quarter century. And I
Speaker 3: think the Godfather is the Godfather. Yeah, the Godfather probably
Speaker 3: right to really do the bigats.
Speaker 2: You can go back to the Godfather. Yeah, but right, okay,
Speaker 2: so okay. Nick Newfield asks the following.
Speaker 1: Wait when you wait, wait Jonah, when you say to
Speaker 1: the guests, do you mean follow the toldo for?
Speaker 2: Yes? Sorry? Are we are we in the visit? Are
Speaker 2: we in the Are we in the Arian creed or
Speaker 2: the Athenasian creed? Here?
Speaker 1: No, No, I'm in the ot my friend?
Speaker 2: Okay, whoa easy?
Speaker 1: You heard me?
Speaker 3: The bait pob like that.
Speaker 1: You know what I said, You're in the apocrypha. I
Speaker 1: referred to you. I refer to your book your way.
Speaker 2: You're indeed, thank you, I said, Arian Creed. I deserve
Speaker 2: I deserve a couple of Brownie points for that. Could
Speaker 2: Rob write a pilot I like comedy about the page
Speaker 2: or operation? What wag?
Speaker 1: Operation?
Speaker 2: What would be in the running for the show title?
Speaker 2: And I and then we are answered, by the way
Speaker 2: by somebody who says, shouldn't Why isn't anybody referring to
Speaker 2: that operation as Stuck's nuts? So I really get that's
Speaker 2: pretty good. So I think.
Speaker 1: Necessarily it already has.
Speaker 2: We have the title from another tweeter. So, but Rob,
Speaker 2: how do you write a like comedy?
Speaker 1: Well, it's perfect? What do you mean, it's a great, delicious,
Speaker 1: I mean horific. The bad guys get it. You know,
Speaker 1: you make it. You make it. It's an out landish idea, right,
Speaker 1: it is an outlandish idea that I and I one
Speaker 1: hundred thousand percent guarantee you that. When they first talked
Speaker 1: about it, someone said, this is the stupidest thing I've
Speaker 1: ever heard of my life. There's some old guys, some
Speaker 1: network executive at the you know room whatever that is
Speaker 1: in the most saw the tech the tech room, what
Speaker 1: they called room something. What they called room.
Speaker 3: Something was a young woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, first pitched.
Speaker 1: This thing and again, and some old guys said, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, honey, I and I sent it there no
Speaker 1: bad ideas, that's a bad idea.
Speaker 3: Okay, get me for coffee.
Speaker 1: I thought this was a safe space for brainstorming, like yeah,
Speaker 1: but not for stupid stuff. Okay, so give me the
Speaker 1: thing that I can use. And then she went off
Speaker 1: and she did the thing. I uh, you know that happened.
Speaker 1: Untilally happened. I've been actually working for the past six months,
Speaker 1: nine months with a friend of mine on the project
Speaker 1: project he brought to me. We were working together and
Speaker 1: he to partners on this and the premise of it
Speaker 1: is very very close to this, and we have spent
Speaker 1: you have no idea how much time we spend saying
Speaker 1: this is just the thing. When you say this that nobody
Speaker 1: believes it. It's just like it just sounds so dumb.
Speaker 1: And then this happened, and it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I when I when I saw this happen. The minute
Speaker 1: I saw it, my phone was ringing with what do
Speaker 1: we do.
Speaker 2: Now, that's amazing. I need I need to see that.
Speaker 2: I need to see your treatment. I got to see
Speaker 2: your treatment because I want to know if you got hacked.
Speaker 2: Are you the author of stucks Nuts, the real Thing
Speaker 2: and the pilot?
Speaker 1: Well great if you. If you're gonna call it stuck nuts,
Speaker 1: it's got to be called s T S T U
Speaker 1: X and U T Z and and and it's the nerdy,
Speaker 1: the nerdy young you know, kind of unattractive because she
Speaker 1: wears glasses uh you know, uh huts. Her name is
Speaker 1: me Nuts, doctor nuts, and she's been you know, it's
Speaker 1: teasing her all the time, and she's, God, what what
Speaker 1: kind of what are you working on? Come on, doctor Nuts?
Speaker 2: One, don't we just go out.
Speaker 1: Let's go outside. It's come on, I buy your come on.
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, I have Tom in the lab.
Speaker 1: I have to do the thing. And you and the
Speaker 1: lab and you have plots and your plants.
Speaker 2: Come on out.
Speaker 1: We're all gonna go dance sink to the thing, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a smart.
Speaker 3: You know, you could also do it, you know, borrowing
Speaker 3: loosely from Mean Girls, where the girl who comes up
Speaker 3: with this at first wants to be part of the
Speaker 3: cool kids, but she's really a nerd, right right. She
Speaker 3: gets all sort of caught up, and then at the end,
Speaker 3: you know, she realizes, I've lost my way. I got
Speaker 3: to go blow up some terrorists. And then she gets
Speaker 3: the boy, you know, and that's how it's you know,
Speaker 3: not supposed to end.
Speaker 1: Okay, I want I want her, and she's you know,
Speaker 1: and she's got to have this. And it's like this young,
Speaker 1: super super hot Mosad agent, you know, and he's just
Speaker 1: like you know, Benyamine or something. Uh, and he's just
Speaker 1: like he does can't care for the time of day.
Speaker 1: So she's so madly in love with him. And then
Speaker 1: one day he's in the lab and he reaches to
Speaker 1: pick up the pager and she reaches over to stop
Speaker 1: him in her hands touch and he looks at her
Speaker 1: and he says, what you don't don't touch the pager
Speaker 1: and then uh, and then they kind of lock eyes
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, wait a minute, something happened. And
Speaker 1: then you know, in like third act, he's he says,
Speaker 1: can I can I can I just do something? Can
Speaker 1: you just look at me for one minute? Nihal? And
Speaker 1: she looks at him and he just takes her glasses
Speaker 1: off her face and says, you know, you know, you're
Speaker 1: beautiful Dutch and she says, stop it. We let's just
Speaker 1: keep up. Let's focus on blowing up plo.
Speaker 3: And then you know it could be called jahad me
Speaker 3: at hello.
Speaker 2: Okay, now that's good, all right, okay, so uh let
Speaker 2: me see if I got okay, got something to read here.
Speaker 1: Let's talk at at least first about it. When you
Speaker 1: move to the new places I have, you ended up
Speaker 1: having to buy a lot of stuff, and you ended
Speaker 1: up buying a lot of stuff on the internets. And
Speaker 1: one of the ways that you do that is that
Speaker 1: you discover a lot of vendors to Shopify. I bought
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, and I bought a lot of books,
Speaker 1: and a lot of them, like use bookstores, use Shopify
Speaker 1: and shopfi is really simple and it's mobile, and it's
Speaker 1: incredibly great product to use both as a customer and
Speaker 1: as somebody who is a If you're a retailer, even
Speaker 1: a small retailer, Shopify makes all those things much much easier.
Speaker 1: So if you have a business, if you sell some stuff,
Speaker 1: you're using obviously using the web to do that. Upgrade
Speaker 1: your business, get the same checkout that everybody uses with Shopify.
Speaker 1: So sign up for your one dollar per month trial period.
Speaker 1: It's Shopify dot com slash glop. That's all lowercase Shopify
Speaker 1: dot com slash clop, Shopify s h O P I
Speaker 1: f y dot com slash glop upgrade. You are selling
Speaker 1: today that Shopify dot com dot com slash glop and
Speaker 1: you get the same checkout that all these great internet
Speaker 1: retailers use. And it's only a dollar a month trial period.
Speaker 1: I know you'll stay with it because if you if
Speaker 1: you have a small business, I've just used it now
Speaker 1: ninety thousand times, and it is It connects you to
Speaker 1: your customers. I always know when my package is arriving.
Speaker 1: It's incredibly great innovation for small business.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's an interesting one that is.
Speaker 1: But you know that's true.
Speaker 2: Actually, that is very true. That is very true. Okay,
Speaker 2: here is something that is so out of phase that
Speaker 2: it's just sort of an interesting thing. Should the final
Speaker 2: scenes in Taxi Driver be understood to be real or
Speaker 2: a fantasy? That is all in the mind of Travis Spickel.
Speaker 2: So I now must point out The Taxi Driver is
Speaker 2: a film from nineteen seventy six, directed by Martin Scorsese,
Speaker 2: written by Paul Schrader, starring Robert de Niro, about a
Speaker 2: Vietnam veteran taxi driver who is plotting a possible assassination
Speaker 2: of a presidential candidate while getting obsessed with saving a
Speaker 2: teenage prostitute from her pimp. In Times Square, you're talking
Speaker 2: to me, talking to me, But who the hell are
Speaker 2: you talking talking to me?
Speaker 4: Well, I'm the only one.
Speaker 2: And in the course of this whole thing, he has
Speaker 2: a brief flirtation with Sybil Shepherd, who is a campaign
Speaker 2: worker at the staff of the presidential candidate whom he
Speaker 2: is considering assassinating. As we discovered in the course of
Speaker 2: the plot, he ends up saving the teenage prostitute from
Speaker 2: her pimp and an incredibly bloody one of the bloodiest
Speaker 2: scenes in film history in a tenement shootout. And then
Speaker 2: the last scene is him driving his cab and Sybil
Speaker 2: Shepherd gets into the cab and having ditched him because
Speaker 2: he had taken her to a hardcore porn movie. In
Speaker 2: Times Square, rather like Jonah taking the nice young girl
Speaker 2: in Prague to see Silence of the Lambs on the date,
Speaker 2: Darnk tutened she flirts with him, and he kind of
Speaker 2: flirts with her back, and then she gets out of
Speaker 2: the cab, and then you see his eyes in the
Speaker 2: rearview mirror. And there's always been a debate about whether
Speaker 2: or not either the scene in which he survives the
Speaker 2: shooting of the pimp that maybe he dies and that
Speaker 2: the final scene is his fantasy life, or that the
Speaker 2: entire murder of the pimp is a fantasy, as is
Speaker 2: Sybil Shepherd's appearance in his cab, and that he remains
Speaker 2: the same psychopath that he was all along. So this
Speaker 2: has been a debate since the movie came out, and
Speaker 2: I don't know if either of you has a theory
Speaker 2: or whether this was.
Speaker 3: I'd have to rewatch it. It's been a long time since,
Speaker 3: so watch that. The only thing I will say about
Speaker 3: Taxi Driver is last year were to comment about it,
Speaker 3: you guys talked about on Commentary Pod, there was that
Speaker 3: poll that came out that said the huge numbers of
Speaker 3: Americans think life was better fifty years ago in America.
Speaker 3: Go watch Taxi Driver. Yeah, yeah, tell me that, Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I will say for the for the record
Speaker 2: that I believe that the final scene with Sybil Shepherd
Speaker 2: in the Cab is Travis Bickle's fantasy, and that and
Speaker 2: that yes, he he believes that he has become this
Speaker 2: great hero and that his only goal really is to
Speaker 2: be thought of as a hero, but that this doesn't
Speaker 2: doesn't really happen. I what's interesting is in a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks, this a billion dollar movie is about to
Speaker 2: open the sequel to Joker, right the Joaquin Phoenix Joker.
Speaker 2: You when the Oscar for a Joker made a billion dollars,
Speaker 2: and this is the sequel, Joker Folio Do, which he
Speaker 2: co stars with Lady Gaga. So what was striking to
Speaker 2: me about Joker when it came out in twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: is that it was an homage, which is to say,
Speaker 2: a complete ripoff of Taxi Driver, and not only a
Speaker 2: ripoff of Taxi Driver, but then stitched together with Taxi
Speaker 2: Driver was Martin Squersese's movie made three movies later, King
Speaker 2: of Comedy, which is also the plot of Joker, which
Speaker 2: is Taxi Driver meets King of Comedy. And it is
Speaker 2: astounding to me that you can sort of do that,
Speaker 2: that there was something shocking about the degree to which
Speaker 2: the entire all the emotional beats everything. Basically Jaquin Phoenix
Speaker 2: is playing Travis Bickel, and that's fine. So he won
Speaker 2: an Oscar for it. Congratulations. But this is the weird
Speaker 2: part about Joker folio do as a comes out. That's
Speaker 2: a ripoff as far as I can tell from the
Speaker 2: trailer of another movie from the same period, which is
Speaker 2: Bob Fosse's All That Jazz, because it's a musical and
Speaker 2: it's a musical that takes place in the head of
Speaker 2: the Joker apparently and is all about killing and murder
Speaker 2: or suicide or whatever, which is what All That Jazz is,
Speaker 2: which is fantastic, one of my favorite movies of all
Speaker 2: time actually, but nonetheless very interesting that we are now
Speaker 2: mining the seventies so deeply and with such that or
Speaker 2: Hollywood is now this guy Todd Phillips who made it,
Speaker 2: is like, I'm just going to remake All That Jazz,
Speaker 2: but I'm not going to pay Bob Fossey's estate. I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna make the Joker into the Roy Scheider Bob
Speaker 2: Fosse character, and that'll be fine, and I can make
Speaker 2: a billion dollars. Now we're getting into the weeds. You
Speaker 2: want weeds, I got weeds. For you. On a recent flight,
Speaker 2: Jeff Dana writes, I watched an episode of the Twilight Zone.
Speaker 2: Let's start ed Winn. Ed Win, what a great actor
Speaker 2: in Personal Win.
Speaker 1: By the way, Ed Winn is Noted Winn.
Speaker 2: Any favorite memories or roles of ed I need to
Speaker 2: rewatch the Diary of Ann Frank, which Edwin was it?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Ed Winn was a great vodvillian and Broadway star of
Speaker 2: the twenties, thirties and forties. Does anyone remember?
Speaker 1: I feel like we're being true. I feel I feel
Speaker 1: like that he didn't. He doesn't care about ed Winn.
Speaker 1: He just wants to get Grandpa going. He's like, hey,
Speaker 1: what do you say about ed Winn? And there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of people listening to this right now and say,
Speaker 1: there's no way to let me tell you. Come on, no,
Speaker 1: I think I thy're gonna And there's like a drinking
Speaker 1: game that happened right this minute about whether any whether
Speaker 1: we're talking about ed Win or not. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I really have no feelings.
Speaker 2: Remember Ed Disney was the thing he was. He played
Speaker 2: Uncle Albert in Mary Potter.
Speaker 1: I love to love.
Speaker 2: Long and clear.
Speaker 1: I love to love.
Speaker 2: That's I would say that's the only thing that I
Speaker 2: know Edwin from.
Speaker 1: Oh Fred Gwinn, Just to be clear, but I mean Edwin.
Speaker 2: Fred Gwynn, not Win. Here's what I remember about Fred
Speaker 2: Gwynn is that every time that Fred Winn was interviewed,
Speaker 2: of course Herman Munster, and then after Herman Munster, he
Speaker 2: had a queer as a character. Actor hated being associated
Speaker 2: with Herman Munster, like all TV stars of the old
Speaker 2: days when they thought they were more important than their shows,
Speaker 2: And Fred Gwinn had to let you know that he
Speaker 2: went to Harvard. You never read an interview with Fred
Speaker 2: Winn that didn't say went to Harvard. You never heard
Speaker 2: anything about Fred Winn that didn't say went to Harvard.
Speaker 2: He went to Harvard. I just want you to know that.
Speaker 1: He was No Monster went to Harvard is a kind
Speaker 1: of a story.
Speaker 3: That's definitely, But.
Speaker 2: John Aston, who played Gomez Adams, also went to Harvard.
Speaker 2: He was intellectually secure enough not to mention it.
Speaker 1: Every Like you believe that Goz went to Harvard, you
Speaker 1: do not believe that Herman Monster went to Harvard. Herman
Speaker 1: Monster at best went to Cornell. I don't know that
Speaker 1: the guy from from.
Speaker 3: The the Joe Petty Lawyer movie. Yeah, no, I know
Speaker 3: that guy went to Harvard, but it's funny.
Speaker 2: But really to Mississippi State, that would be my guess.
Speaker 2: But I am the judge.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I was recently driven through northern Maryland a
Speaker 3: couple of a month and a half ago in the
Speaker 3: sprinter van and we drove through Teeneytown, Maryland, sure, which
Speaker 3: is kind of charming and seemed to be thriving for
Speaker 3: a lot of small towns don't seem to be thriving anymore.
Speaker 3: And I'm I'm googling tiny town like wanting to know
Speaker 3: like the history of it. And it's not related to
Speaker 3: the Tainy from the Teiney decision Ary that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: But it is where Fred Gwyn lived and died at
Speaker 3: the end of his life, where he retired and died,
Speaker 3: this Kingstown found in Maryland.
Speaker 2: He needed a big coffin. Yeah he was one. He
Speaker 2: was one tall drink of water.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also he was. He was buried with so much
Speaker 1: of his Harvard me bill. He went to Harvard, just
Speaker 1: said the H bomb the twosan just said I went
Speaker 1: to school in Boston with a question mark at the end.
Speaker 2: I did see him once play Big Daddy and Cat
Speaker 2: on a Hanson roof on Broadway Elizabeth Ashley, and he
Speaker 2: was great. He was a really wonderful actor, particularly given
Speaker 2: his Harvard pedigree.
Speaker 1: Harvard traink is what I.
Speaker 2: Want to say, and by the way, fantastic as Herman Munster.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh no, he was good. I mean that very feels.
Speaker 2: Is beyond is beyond criticism. I would say that was
Speaker 2: a very original, delightful performance as Herman Munster.
Speaker 1: I have to say no, can I interrupt for one
Speaker 1: minute by saying it if there if this was a
Speaker 1: drinking game that they were playing to.
Speaker 2: See if we would go over an ed wmin.
Speaker 1: No, they didn't win, but I hope that if they
Speaker 1: were going to play that game they were going to
Speaker 1: they used a game changing product that I use also
Speaker 1: before night out with drinks. That it's called z biotics
Speaker 1: pre alcohol. So let's face it, after a night with drinks,
Speaker 1: I don't bounce back the next day like I used to.
Speaker 1: I have to make a choice. I can either have
Speaker 1: a great night or a great next day. So let
Speaker 1: me tell you if it's a surefire way to wake
Speaker 1: up feeling fresh after night of drinking, it's with z
Speaker 1: biotics pre alcohol pre alcohol is the world's first genetically
Speaker 1: engineered in probiotic. It was embedded by PhD scientists to
Speaker 1: tackle rough mornings after drinking or after listening to glob
Speaker 1: having tried to play trick on us. So here's how
Speaker 1: it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a
Speaker 1: toxic byproduct in the gut. And it's this by products,
Speaker 1: not dehydration that's to blame for your rough next day
Speaker 1: we all get drink drink water. No, it's an actual
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Speaker 2: Joana, listening to Rob continue to mention the fact that
Speaker 2: he has to be in class at eight thirty and
Speaker 2: all of that, And can I just say that I
Speaker 2: am being triggered. I am now going to have school
Speaker 2: nightmares every night for the next six months. I'm still
Speaker 2: I'm sixty three years old. I've been having school nightmares
Speaker 2: since I got to college. Me too, Okay, so now
Speaker 2: are you having them while you're at school?
Speaker 1: That's the problem. It's curious to have them. And I
Speaker 1: would wake up and I would say, this is hilarious.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I had this nightmare. It's not
Speaker 1: really because I'm not in school. Now I have them
Speaker 1: and it's like, wait a minute, wait a minute, this
Speaker 1: could be true.
Speaker 3: I love about it is that not only do you
Speaker 3: are you going to wake up in a cold, sweat,
Speaker 3: stress nightmare, but what you're going to do when you
Speaker 3: wake up is rush to read the Bible, which is
Speaker 3: like such a great look if you're just watching from
Speaker 3: the outside on a camera, like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: He woke up in a panic and he's first Bible.
Speaker 2: All right, let's go hi brow for a second. We
Speaker 2: got a question here. I name the most overrated novels
Speaker 2: of the last two hundred years. Now, I know there's
Speaker 2: a whole world of people on the internet who love
Speaker 2: to do things like as I think happened to his
Speaker 2: shame Rob's friend. This American Life host Ira Gross? Who
Speaker 2: who went to see Glass? Excuse me? Did I say Gross?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry? Who went to see king Lear? Terry Grose
Speaker 2: went to see king Lear in Central Park and an
Speaker 2: admittedly terrible production with John Lithgow and said, I don't
Speaker 2: get it. King Lear is boring. When people are willing
Speaker 2: to admit that Shakespeare is boring, and the world came
Speaker 2: down around it's had and he said, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I'm just But by the end of like the three
Speaker 2: hour Twitter hysteria, he had already gotten to the I
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm just some guy who was a radio show.
Speaker 2: Leave me alone. I'm so sorry all of that. So
Speaker 2: this is a big thing wanting to say, you know what.
Speaker 1: I don't like.
Speaker 2: But you know, everyone says that The Last Supper is
Speaker 2: a great painting. You know, I don't agree. It's a
Speaker 2: lousy painting. You know, that kind of thing. So that
Speaker 2: this this does there is jeopardy here in doing the
Speaker 2: most overrated novels of the last turn of years. But
Speaker 2: Moby Dick, thank you. Okay, uhb Dick, Moby Dick the
Speaker 2: most overrated novel I've ever read. Period. I'm going with that.
Speaker 2: I like it. I like the Ahab come conceit, I
Speaker 2: like the ab Okay crappy on American stuff. Okay, I
Speaker 2: don't go anyway. I'm not a fan of family either,
Speaker 2: although which you'd have to pick the book.
Speaker 1: Oka say something even even more, or you'll be quiet.
Speaker 1: I don't like The Great Gatsby.
Speaker 2: A more common opinion. Then you realize, for some reason,
Speaker 2: over the last couple of years, I've discovered that many
Speaker 2: people do not really like The Great Gatsby.
Speaker 1: I don't like it. I mean I don't I didn't
Speaker 1: enjoy it. I don't think it's I mean, who cares.
Speaker 1: I don't get it.
Speaker 2: And I have a theory about The Great Gatsby and
Speaker 2: why it has become the book that has become. First
Speaker 2: of all, it can be read in all high school
Speaker 2: classes because it is short. It is two hundred pages long.
Speaker 2: It is very it doesn't have a lot of plot.
Speaker 2: It's really a series of four sequences. It's got a
Speaker 2: murder in it, so that's.
Speaker 1: Good, right good.
Speaker 2: It's got a big drinking scene, so that's good. I
Speaker 2: read it again a couple of years so again one
Speaker 2: of my kids was doing it, and I thought it
Speaker 2: was both amazing and unbelievably sketchy. Like the thing about
Speaker 2: it is, it's almost like the second draft, and he
Speaker 2: needed to write two more drafts and thicken it, enrich it,
Speaker 2: and solidify it, and he didn't. He got He wrote
Speaker 2: down what he could write down, and that turned out
Speaker 2: to be a thing of genius, because the book is
Speaker 2: suggestive without being kind of like definitive, and you have
Speaker 2: to bring a lot to it if you're a reader,
Speaker 2: and it's really easy to read, and it's fast and
Speaker 2: so for an American kid. That's why it's become the
Speaker 2: Great American novel because unlike other great American novels, it's
Speaker 2: really short and you can read them three hours. What
Speaker 2: do you think of that as my theory?
Speaker 3: I guess I got to play this game too, you do.
Speaker 3: You guys read a lot more novels and retain them
Speaker 3: than I do. That's one of the things, is like,
Speaker 3: if you can get me to read like a great
Speaker 3: piece of literature, it's usually if I don't like it,
Speaker 3: I don't finish it right. But I will say, you know,
Speaker 3: we often say the golden age of science fiction is sixteen, right,
Speaker 3: I missed the like Catcher in the Rye did not
Speaker 3: grab me by the soul, and I understand that it
Speaker 3: does for some people. But I was just like eh
Speaker 3: and just never got the palpitations from it. So I'm
Speaker 3: not saying that people who do are wrong, because some
Speaker 3: books you just need to read at the right age,
Speaker 3: and I was maybe too cynical and jaundice or whatever.
Speaker 2: But uh no, I think the Catcher and the Rye.
Speaker 2: I don't like Catcher in the Rye. I don't like
Speaker 2: what it says. I don't like what it is as
Speaker 2: a piece of imaginative literature or sort of if you
Speaker 2: want to think of what it proposes or what it
Speaker 2: propels about the world, what it has, and what I
Speaker 2: think is the reason that it endures, like my son's
Speaker 2: about to read it in ninth grade, is it has
Speaker 2: an incredibly charming authorial voice that Salinger found for Holden Callfield.
Speaker 2: And it's all the voice because it's the radically subjective,
Speaker 2: it's all him. It's just through his eyes. And this
Speaker 2: weekend of that sort of this disastrous weekend in his life.
Speaker 2: Again a book that's easy to read, which is one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why it remains read. And I like,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that kids should read it, not just
Speaker 2: because John Hinckley shot Ronald Reagan because he read it.
Speaker 3: But it does he watched Taxi Driver, Oh my god, wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, So we got Catcher in the Rye, we
Speaker 2: got Moby Dick, we got Gatsby. As the three most
Speaker 2: over books of the last two hundred years, I would
Speaker 2: ask one other question then yes, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean this is more of an intellectual point than
Speaker 3: it is a literary point.
Speaker 2: But like.
Speaker 3: Edward Bellamy's Looking Backwards Between the Last two hundred Years
Speaker 3: was arguably the one of the most influential books ever
Speaker 3: written in the English language or in America. It launched
Speaker 3: all sorts of utopian and nationalist movements in the United States.
Speaker 3: And it is garbage, but it was wildly influential. It's
Speaker 3: largely forgotten now, but like I had to read it
Speaker 3: for yeah, for two books I wrote, and and it's
Speaker 3: like the people who fell for HG. Wells, they fell
Speaker 3: for Bellamy.
Speaker 2: First I just thought that, well, that that is a right, Well,
Speaker 2: that's a whole other interesting topic is the world of
Speaker 2: the false prediction and how unbelievably damaging the false predictive
Speaker 2: stuff was, and then also how astounding the like yeah
Speaker 2: and every ones are you know? That really kind of
Speaker 2: freak you out.
Speaker 1: It's also set us up though, for this flying car
Speaker 1: thing people always talk about, like, oh, where are the
Speaker 1: fly was promised flying cars? Like can you imagine how
Speaker 1: awful it would be if cars could fly? Who wants
Speaker 1: flying cars?
Speaker 3: Well, everybody else had them.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So Jonah, where where can people find you?
Speaker 3: In the next couple of weeks, I'll be if all
Speaker 3: if my flight home works out, I will be on
Speaker 3: the Chris Waller Show this Saturday, and I will be
Speaker 3: doing scenn on Monday from New York for the.
Speaker 2: Pre would be Monday the thirtieth, something like that.
Speaker 3: Okay, the pre vice presidential debate commentary on CNN, and
Speaker 3: then I will go home from that and that's it.
Speaker 2: Can I just say that Tim wall said the best
Speaker 2: thing ever in the history of anything in terms of.
Speaker 3: Revelations of you're talking about studies are biblical history, and
Speaker 3: you're saying, guy, yes, the best things ever in terms
Speaker 3: of revelations.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm saying that, of course ironically, as I assume
Speaker 2: you assume if I'm saying that, Tim wall said a
Speaker 2: great thing where giving a speak getting himself wound up.
Speaker 2: He's like winding himself up as he's going, he's going
Speaker 2: talking about everything. He's like, we can't go on another
Speaker 2: four years like this. Yeah, uh, and you know what.
Speaker 2: I agree. That's why Tim Waltz was a unique choice
Speaker 2: for a vice. We can't go on another four years
Speaker 2: like this was a was a great moment. So I
Speaker 2: hope you I hope someone asks him what he meant
Speaker 2: by that during that debate, which of course is a
Speaker 2: week from is neck October first.
Speaker 1: I believe.
Speaker 2: Okay, Rob, what about you now that you are, aside
Speaker 2: from being at a Nassau Hall or wherever the hell
Speaker 2: you have your your classes. I thought that was a
Speaker 2: pretty good poll.
Speaker 1: That's not bad.
Speaker 2: I haven't been I didn't go to prison.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not the university. We're not the university.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry you're that. You are not you are there?
Speaker 1: They separated the administrata.
Speaker 2: So are you in the cotton, either building or the.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can't do a Fred Gwyn I went
Speaker 3: to Princeton kind of deal.
Speaker 1: You can, but you know, you'd have to say, I
Speaker 1: went to Princeton, but it's not exactly price charter.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I could be found in chapel. Okay, I can be
Speaker 1: found in the library. Okay, can you be found a
Speaker 1: Martini shot?
Speaker 2: Martini shot? Still going there because I'm still on the best,
Speaker 2: you know, And of course in the pages of commentary
Speaker 2: and page see every month I I am. I am
Speaker 2: nowhere except on the commentary podcast, and I have discovered
Speaker 2: something interesting. No, but I discovered something interesting, which is
Speaker 2: like people ask me to go on their podcasts. I'm
Speaker 2: sure it happens to you. When Jonah came on the
Speaker 2: commentary podcast very grace graciously last week and Rob, I
Speaker 2: guess you still do the rics podcast the times.
Speaker 1: Not all not not all the time Friday.
Speaker 2: Okay, But like I realized, you know, I like I'm
Speaker 2: on the air an hour day, five days a week.
Speaker 2: Like I'm done, Like I don't want to do any more,
Speaker 2: Like I don't, you know, unless someone wants to pay
Speaker 2: me money. Really, I'm not going on your pot. Basically,
Speaker 2: I can't do it, like I'm I'm I'm all in,
Speaker 2: I'm all out, like I'm spent, like my you know,
Speaker 2: my wife wants to talk to me on Saturdays, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't even know if I've anything left
Speaker 2: to say. And then I think about like Rush Limbough,
Speaker 2: people like that talk fifteen hours a week or handy
Speaker 2: like three hours a week on the radio and an
Speaker 2: hour on TV at night.
Speaker 1: Like what you're saying, you're saying, John Pator, it's you're saying.
Speaker 1: Let me see if I know what you're saying. You're saying.
Speaker 1: You're saying that you that you're you're done. Like yet
Speaker 1: you couldn't do fifteen hours twenty hours a week. You
Speaker 1: couldn't pay me, and I could do it. I'll pay
Speaker 1: you what you can do. I posit, John of Doors,
Speaker 1: and I posit this with all the Christian love, not
Speaker 1: to that I have, because I don't have that much,
Speaker 1: but all that's that exists, and that's a lot that
Speaker 1: you're studying to get that I'm studying. I posit, sir,
Speaker 1: that you could do it without paytent. You are gifted
Speaker 1: in that respect.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to gin up some money here because unlike Jonah,
Speaker 2: I'm not making any money on the road.
Speaker 1: I mean either.
Speaker 2: I was, by the way horrified. I will tell you
Speaker 2: what it's like to be a writer and a monster
Speaker 2: at the same time being both. On last week, this
Speaker 2: terrible thing happened to Rich Lowry. Right, Rich Lowry was
Speaker 2: accused falsely and disgustingly used, you know, used a bad
Speaker 2: word on the air. People like tried to spin it
Speaker 2: up at something on Twitter. And he lost two speaking
Speaker 2: gigs and it was really shameful. And rich is a
Speaker 2: wonderful person. And I've known him for thirty years and
Speaker 2: he has never said anything offensive about anybody ever in
Speaker 2: my entire experience of him. And I'm sure Jonah, you
Speaker 2: got all three of us know him. And no, this
Speaker 2: is true.
Speaker 1: I didn't stop you for trying to get those gigs
Speaker 1: for yourself.
Speaker 2: Right, it was terrible that he lost.
Speaker 1: He's a good friend. I love him the Badger Institute.
Speaker 2: No, wait a minute.
Speaker 1: When I emailed the people who canceled him, I told
Speaker 1: him I was available. I also gave them a piece
Speaker 1: of my mind. No, no, this is no.
Speaker 2: I was going somewhere else. I was in the Why
Speaker 2: didn't I get speaking gigs. That's where I was.
Speaker 1: I was in the Hey, cancel me.
Speaker 2: What the hell he had it to magazine? I had
Speaker 2: a magazine. I'm a pretty compelling He's out there getting gigs.
Speaker 2: What about me? I didn't feel sorry enough for him
Speaker 2: that he was punished unjustly for this horrible, you know,
Speaker 2: horrible mistreatment. I had a little I had a teeny
Speaker 2: bit of Shotenfreuda undeserved. He did not not deserve shod
Speaker 2: before it from me. I have nothing but kind feeling.
Speaker 2: It's about me. It's what is nice, as my as my.
Speaker 1: Pastor nice And you realize you're a pharisee g thanks.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, regular thing would make this a regular thing.
Speaker 3: On glop Is, the last five minutes are ask Father
Speaker 3: rob or yeah right, where behavior? And then ask for
Speaker 3: contrition and the guidance and healing from yes, yes, Well.
Speaker 2: This is the month of Eld. This is the Jewish
Speaker 2: month of Eld, and we are to when we are
Speaker 2: to reflect upon our behavior in the in the previous year,
Speaker 2: as we approach the high Holy Days which begin next
Speaker 2: week and in which we go through the ten days
Speaker 2: of Awe, in which we are to reflect on our
Speaker 2: own misdeeds, failures, and seek a restitution with with the
Speaker 2: Lord to have the Lord of Verth the evil to
Speaker 2: create let us continue to be inscribed in the Book
Speaker 2: of Life for another year. So I guess what I
Speaker 2: did here, even though it is not yet the days
Speaker 2: of all, was uh, make some kind of a public
Speaker 2: amend to Rich Lowry for not being sufficiently upset at
Speaker 2: his loss of a speaking gig. Me.
Speaker 1: No, you would never hear that from me.
Speaker 2: Okay, so Rich, I'm sorry, Joan up. I can't wait
Speaker 2: to see you on with with Chris Wallace. Uh and
Speaker 2: uh and Rob just say uh. You know the problem
Speaker 2: is that you're like high Church and I don't even
Speaker 2: know what what what it is I'm allowed to say
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so, I'm so high Church. You could say
Speaker 1: anything if it's really you could say now I'm as
Speaker 1: stay and it'd be like I think you.
Speaker 3: Oh, I know we're running along, but I just I
Speaker 3: want to get your take on this real quick. Went
Speaker 3: to the CI dinner last week. Great time. They gave
Speaker 3: George Willie award. A very charming lady got another award.
Speaker 3: It was at the National Cathedral, sure right, and which
Speaker 3: is just like an event space, which I'm not sure
Speaker 3: I really approve approve of. But and then they do
Speaker 3: a joking video at the end that was kind of
Speaker 3: funny for its painful nerdiness. Fine. Fine, And then they
Speaker 3: had these dancers performers that who were the theme of
Speaker 3: the night was Prometheus, and literally on the altar at
Speaker 3: the National Cathedral they're doing like this modern dance circusolet
Speaker 3: thing in homage to Prometheus. And I like.
Speaker 1: This even offends me to a pagan dance literally.
Speaker 3: Just like literally pagan in the National Cathedral.
Speaker 1: And I just if you, if you go, if you'd
Speaker 1: look at the uh you go to anything that's at
Speaker 1: the cathedral, say, John, the Divine is the cathedral in
Speaker 1: the New York, New York. That's where the bishop is.
Speaker 1: It's the biggest giant case. I think it's the second
Speaker 1: largest largest Gothic style cathedral in the world.
Speaker 3: The dog and cat stuff, which is awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And usually in the back of the whatever the
Speaker 1: program is, they'll have a list of people, you know,
Speaker 1: the the staff and the people associated with the cathedral
Speaker 1: and the bishop and the bitch of coadjutor, the all
Speaker 1: the it's a huge thing. And then they have this other,
Speaker 1: this other job that's down there, which is the resident
Speaker 1: trapeze artist. No, no, sorry it was wrong. No, the
Speaker 1: resident tightrope.
Speaker 3: Artiste artist in residence.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's what it is. Actually, I
Speaker 1: think it is. Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: At least change the light bulbs.
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's a good question. They have a
Speaker 1: little speak of circus lays. So yeah, I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: we probablybably should be rethinking. The irony is that we
Speaker 1: took this is another glop and I had to run.
Speaker 1: But we took all of the mystery and the grandeur
Speaker 1: out of the religion, religious experiences, certainly the ones that
Speaker 1: are sort of foundational American you know, the mainline of
Speaker 1: Protestant churches. And then because we say, oh, well, people
Speaker 1: don't want that, and then you look at what people do,
Speaker 1: and it's like they're going to burning Man and they're
Speaker 1: going to yoga, and they're chanting, and they're doing all
Speaker 1: sorts of things that suggest that actually people are incredibly,
Speaker 1: incredibly in search of mystery. And meanwhile, the mainline American
Speaker 1: Protestant churches that built the country, you're busy saying things
Speaker 1: like it's all a metaphor, don't worry about it. By
Speaker 1: the way, we have Starbucks coffee and okay, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a little We're gonna do a Prometheus,
Speaker 1: because Prometheus is basically Jesus, you know, like, oh, by
Speaker 1: the altar, it's not even an altar. And then you
Speaker 1: end up kind of where they are, which they like, Hey,
Speaker 1: why isn't anybody ever coming anymore? Well, you know, because
Speaker 1: you told them to go to Starbucks. So that's where they.
Speaker 2: Are an unexpectedly deep ending.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's why I want. We're here to tell
Speaker 1: you about the good news. You see, John, you.
Speaker 3: Can all right later later go with God.
Speaker 4: My toe bones connected to my foot bole. My foot
Speaker 4: bones connected to my heel bone. My heel bones connected
Speaker 4: to my ankle ball. That's how they connected those dry
Speaker 4: bone do do do do do do do do do
Speaker 4: do shut Charlie shit bones connected to my knee bone.
Speaker 4: My knee bones, can do month fine bone, My fine
Speaker 4: bones connected to month hippo bone. That's how they connected
Speaker 4: those ryme bones. Do do do do do do do
Speaker 4: do Do Do Do with Dr Frankensteins where my story starts.
Speaker 4: Everything that have may not be mine, but I'm a
Speaker 4: gentleman of parts. Microphones connected to my shoulder bone. My
Speaker 4: shoulder bones connected to my neck bone. My neck bone
Speaker 4: is boulder tuma, headbone. And that's how Herman was born.
Speaker 4: I was assembled, and that's how Hermie baby was bond